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- [00:01]
Joe Saul Sehi
Did you know that driving under the influence of marijuana is illegal? Driving high will get you a dui. And if you're wondering if law enforcement can tell you're driving high, well, everyone else can. Friends, I can tell you drove high. Parents, I can tell when you drive high. Relatives, I can tell you drove here high, didn't you?
- [00:20]
Adam Nash
So what makes you think law enforcement can't.
- [00:22]
Joe Saul Sehi
I can tell if you feel different, you drive different.
- [00:26]
Len Penzo
Drive high.
- [00:27]
Joe Saul Sehi
Get a dui. Paid for by NHTSA this episode is brought to you by Navy Federal Credit Union. Navy Federal can help you find and finance the right vehicle with ease. With Navy Federal's car buying service, Powered by True Car, you can find the vehicle that's right for you. As you search through inventory, compare models and you could get an amazing rate when you finance with Navy Federal. Visit navy federal.org truecar to to learn more. Navy Federal Credit Union Our members are the mission. Navy Federal is insured by NCUA Credit and collateral subject to approval.
- [01:01]
Len Penzo
You know, I don't understand this podcasting thing. How come you boys can't have those keg parties and chase the girls like all the other nice boys do? Y' all are nerds.
- [01:18]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
Live from Joe's mom's basement, it's the Stacking Benjamin Show. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And how involved are you in your community? Creating a giving plan can be good for you, the organizations around you, and maybe even your tax strategy. Today to help us dive into the world of donor advised funds, or we welcome the founder and CEO of donor advised fund firm, Daffy Adam Nash. In our headline segment, what steps should you take if you're involved in an auto accident? We'll share do's and don'ts at the scene of a fender bender or maybe something worse. But the best decision you'll make all day. That'll be when you decide to partake in my amazing trivia. I've got one you'll be sharing with all your friends. And now, three guys who think SPF stands for Smart Portfolio Fundamentals. It's Joe, OG and Leno.
- [02:30]
Joe Saul Sehi
Hey there, stackers. Happy Wednesday to you. Welcome back to the Stacking Benjamin Show. I am Joe, Saul. SEI and SPF can have two meanings, Doug. It can have two.
- [02:40]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
At least two.
- [02:42]
Joe Saul Sehi
Absolutely. And the guy with two names, the first name and a last name, sitting across the card table from me. Mr. OG is here. How are you, my friend?
- [02:52]
OG
I mean, they're like three names or four names? I'm not sure, but yeah. OG what's up.
- [02:58]
Joe Saul Sehi
He's. He's good.
- [03:00]
OG
And I is good.
- [03:02]
Joe Saul Sehi
I be good.
- [03:03]
OG
Maybe we be maybe good.
- [03:06]
Joe Saul Sehi
Are you excited about charitable giving Wednesday.
- [03:08]
OG
OG as one could be as. As excited as one could be about giving things to other people, which is my favorite thing to do.
- [03:18]
Joe Saul Sehi
And a guy who is a huge giver. He's giving his time for the next hour to you. Mr. Len Penzo is back at the card table. How are you, man?
- [03:27]
Len Penzo
I'm good. If we can speed this up, though, because I just started my colon cleanse and that should be kicking in. We got about 60 minutes by my.
- [03:34]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
Oh my, oh, my.
- [03:37]
Joe Saul Sehi
The clock is ticking.
- [03:39]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
Things are percolating, Jerry.
- [03:41]
Len Penzo
So if you're asking me, things are going to be just great in about an hour.
- [03:44]
Joe Saul Sehi
So do we do a cold ask me joke on Monday?
- [03:48]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
We did. Like we did.
- [03:50]
Joe Saul Sehi
Say you're a man of a certain age without saying you're a man of a certain age just by the type of humor you got. But, Len, you're not only here going to help us with this headline and with the show today. Rumor has it you've got a new book out. What's that all about?
- [04:07]
Len Penzo
Yeah, you know what? I decided, what the hell, just join everybody else with putting books out. I decided I'd do that.
- [04:13]
Joe Saul Sehi
If Joe can do it, so could I.
- [04:18]
Len Penzo
Hey, why not? You know, I noticed you started living a lot larger once you put your book out. So I was like, you know what?
- [04:24]
OG
Yes, he did.
- [04:25]
Len Penzo
That's the. Maybe I can do the same. We'll see.
- [04:29]
Joe Saul Sehi
Someday, Len, you could be just like me.
- [04:31]
Len Penzo
You know, I will say that I. For breakfast, you know, I started having a favorite meal, and it actually helped the writing process. You know what that meal was?
- [04:39]
Joe Saul Sehi
Don't say something. Oat bran or some old guy. Not another old guy.
- [04:42]
Len Penzo
No, it's. It's cinnamon. Cinnamon buns.
- [04:46]
Joe Saul Sehi
Cinnamon. Oh, my. Oh, gee. Do you got the thing?
- [04:50]
Len Penzo
Should we go back to the colon cleanse joke instead?
- [04:52]
Joe Saul Sehi
There we go.
- [04:55]
OG
Are you looking for this one?
- [04:56]
Len Penzo
Dougie? Shaking his head no to both counts.
- [04:59]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
So I can't even speak. It's so bad.
- [05:03]
Joe Saul Sehi
You can tell it's going to be a fun day in the basement with Len here. But, guys, we also have, as Doug, you so eloquently said, Adam Nash is here. He founded a little company that you might have heard of called Wealth Front. Not sure if you guys know that company, but then after, of course, Wealth Front becoming successful, Adam moved on, and he moved on to this cool area called Donor Advised funds. What are Donor advised funds. How can they help you in your charitable giving plan? Well, we got the man here because he's now the CEO and founder of a company called Daffy. Of course, Daff. Donor advised funds. Good times talking to to Adam. Can't wait to dive into that discussion. But before we get there into all this goodness, today, we have a couple of sponsors who make sure we can keep on keeping on. And you don't have to pay a dime for Len's appearance, for Adam's appearance, heck, even for og. Doug and I sit back, we're going to hear from them. And then let's talk to Daffy founder Adam Nash about what are these Donor Buys funds all about? Hey, folks, let me ask you a serious question. Did you know that driving high is considered driving under the influence? That's right. Driving under the influence of marijuana is against the law in every state. That means even the states where marijuana is legal. That means driving high could get you a dui. And if you think law enforcement officers can't tell when you're driving high, well, my friend, you're wrong. If you're high, they can tell. Your friends can tell. Your coworkers can tell. Even your parents can tell. Everyone can tell. So what makes you think that law enforcement officers don't know when you're driving high? You'd be wrong. They can tell, too. Driving under the influence of marijuana can slow your response time and change how you perceive time and speed. So even if you think you're fine to drive when you're high, you're not. Because the bottom line is if you feel different, you drive different. And driving high is driving under the influence. So remember, drive high, get a dui. Paid for by nhtsa. Before the Internet ruled all of our lives, AOL brought America Online with email and Instant messenger. By 2000, AOL was so powerful, and it set its sights on media giant Time Warner. Deal was supposed to bring us into the future, but instead it became one of the messiest corporate disasters on record. But what went wrong? Was it culture clashes? The dot com crash? Or something deeper? Business wars gives you a front row seat to the biggest moments of business and how they shape our world. Because when your flight perks disappear, your favorite restaurant chain goes bankrupt, or new tech reshapes everything overnight, there's always a deeper story behind the headlines. Follow Business wars in the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast. You can binge all episodes of Business wars, the AOL Time Warner disaster, early and ad free right now on Wondery plus. And we're super happy. He's on his way down to mom's basement. Have a seat, man. Adam Nash is here. How are you? Good, good.
- [08:18]
Adam Nash
Great to be here.
- [08:19]
Joe Saul Sehi
Before we get into the mechanics, why are donor advised funds exploding in popularity? You know, these have been around forever, but now I feel like finally we're hearing about donor advised funds. Is this a money nerd trend, Adam, or is there something bigger going on?
- [08:34]
Adam Nash
No, there's two reasons really, that I think donor advised funds are exploding in popularity. You know, going from thousands of accounts to millions. And they're the best reasons of all. It's, you know, the first reason a huge number of Americans give to charity every year. A lot of us support a religious institution, our kids school, our alma mater, a cause we believe in. Most estimates are that between 50 to 60 million American households give to charity every year. So not surprisingly, that's a money issue, right? That's money coming out of everyone's budget every year, and yet most people don't budget for it. And it just turns out that the second reason is that in general, it turns out Americans really like tax advantaged accounts. Like, we spent 50 years talking about 401ks and IRAs, and 25 years ago, we're talking about 529 plans to save for college. And so most people, when they find out, hey, there's a tax advantaged account for charitable giving, most people are like, oh, tell me more. Why didn't someone tell me that this thing exists? And so I think what you're seeing now is that we're just hitting that knee of the curve that those other accounts kind of hit where more and more people are hearing about it. The big guys, the fidelities, the Schwab's, the vanguards are talking about it more. And so I think we're all just getting educated about this great way to put money aside for charity.
- [09:49]
Joe Saul Sehi
Well, I'm so happy that you were available to walk through the one on one on donor advice funds. So let's just pretend that you're my buddy and we're at a neighborhood cookout. What is a donor advice fund? While we're grilling the steaks.
- [10:03]
Adam Nash
Yeah, I appreciate that. And also I do appreciate invites to cookouts like that, because since I like to love to talk about these financial topics, I'm not always the best guest at the cookout, but, you know, I love this stuff. I can't help it. If you're the type of person who gives to charity on a regular basis, you have organizations, it's really useful to have one place for all you're giving. We have separate accounts for different things. There's a reason why we set up a separate account for our long term savings or an emergency fund or a separate account for retirement or even for college savings. And so that's all a donor advised fund is. As it turns out, there's an account designed for giving to charity. And it's a really useful thing because you put money aside when it's convenient for you. Most of us, you know, there's ups and downs in our budgets, there's ups and downs in our income and expenses, et cetera. But we like to support organizations on a regular basis. And so putting money aside when it's convenient for you, having that money invested tax free. And then when you want to give, just having it be a few taps on your phone or a few clicks with your mouse is just amazingly convenient. And I mean the best part of the donor advised fund is that when you put money into the account, you get the charitable deduction right away.
- [11:17]
Joe Saul Sehi
Can we dive into that first?
- [11:18]
Adam Nash
Sure.
- [11:19]
Joe Saul Sehi
Tax advantage, because we got a bunch of our stackers that when you start. And you mentioned this earlier, right? We love giving to these tax shelter plans.
- [11:26]
Adam Nash
Oh, happy to. If you happen to be an investor who owns things like stocks or even exotic things like crypto. When you donate stock or crypto, you get this extra benefit where you never end up paying the capital gains taxes, but you get the charitable deduction for the full market value as long as you've held the investment at least one year. So if you were lucky enough to buy Apple stock at $100 a share and now it's $200 a share a few years later, when you put a share of Apple into a donor advised fund, you get a charitable deduction on your taxes for $200 and you'll never pay the capital gains taxes on that run from 100 to 200. So really, it's really kind of a no brainer. If you give to charity regularly, you should have a donor advised fund.
- [12:13]
Joe Saul Sehi
Here in Texarkana, Texas, little town. I live in Adam. I help build walking trails and it's a 501C3. I was thinking we're a bunch of volunteers. Like we have a budget of almost nothing. If somebody want to give us stock, like how the hell am I going to do that? But you take care of that.
- [12:27]
Adam Nash
That's right, exactly. And in fact, as the number of instruments grows in techniques, there's huge advantages. I mean donor advised funds like DAFFY you can link your bank account. If you just want to move money over without any fees, you can of course use a card. I mean, we even accept Apple pay. But for a lot of investors, if you invest and you've been doing it the right way for the long term, you end up with these investments after 10, 20, 30 years that have significant capital gains.
- [12:52]
Joe Saul Sehi
Sure.
- [12:53]
Adam Nash
And we don't think about that, but the truth is when you cash it in, the government gets paid. Like you're going to pay those taxes. And in some states, those taxes can be quite high. I mean, I live in California, between state and federal, you can be over 50% in some cases.
- [13:08]
Joe Saul Sehi
Yeah.
- [13:08]
Adam Nash
And so if you want to see your money go to a good cause, you know, the ability to actually donate stock or an etf, it can be Vanguard Total Market. It doesn't have to be, you know, Nvidia or, you know, some hot stock in the market. The only problem with it is it can sometimes be a timing thing, it can sometimes be the organization doesn't support it. But the great thing about donor advised funds is that it takes both of those problems off the table.
- [13:31]
Joe Saul Sehi
Right.
- [13:32]
Adam Nash
So you give it when it's convenient for you. You could be working with your accountant if you do your taxes yourself, et cetera. But if you're sitting there thinking like, hey, I normally give a certain amount to charity every year, it just becomes another thing for you, another financial goal. Right. To make sure that you're funding. And actually we see a lot of, a lot of our members actually use it that way. We actually encourage our members to actually set a goal, to actually look back. What did you give to charity last year, the year before? Most of us actually don't even know the answer to that question. And the good news is actually most of us are more generous than we think we are because we do these donations one at a time when people ask. But if you turn it into a basic financial goal, you have a number on it, then you can plan for it. Right. And actually using appreciated stock, ETFs, mutual funds, crypto turns out to be a very tax smart way to kind of fund that goal.
- [14:21]
Joe Saul Sehi
I love a, the gamification of it. Right. Let's see if I can beat last year. And that sounds like fun for the family. How can we as a family maybe even give more than we did last year? But second, I also like the fact that then it becomes part of the overall budget. You think about it, I've just found in my life, the more I give, the more I get. You know, how does the universe make that? But I have no idea. But the more I give away, the more I feel like the universe gives it back to me. I sound way more woo woo there than I am, but it's just been true. I want to ask a procedural question because I haven't been a financial planner for a long time. 15 years. But 15 years ago, this deal that I would have this stock or this fund sitting at Vanguard, Fidelity, Schwab, wherever, and now I'm going to give it to a charity. The whole acat transfer thing, you know, the account transfer thing of getting this share of stock from this custodian over to Daffy or whoever, was a real pain in the ass. I gotta believe you, being a guy that's between finance nerd and tech nerd, Adam. You must have picked the lock on how to make this much easier.
- [15:22]
Adam Nash
Yeah, well, I'd like to think that we have made it easier, but unfortunately I've been in this industry long enough to tell you it is not. I still want it to be faster. Like we, we, you know, actually we just rolled out a new version of that this year, but we're always working on that problem.
- [15:35]
Joe Saul Sehi
Maybe that's where all our gray came from though, Adam.
- [15:38]
Adam Nash
Yeah, exactly. Well, the, the biggest myth out there, and it's not unique to donor advised funds, but it's very heavy in the category, is that we've just in the last 10 or 20 years become very fixated on the wealthy and the ultra wealthy. You know, it's the billionaire focus. And so I think there's this misperception that if you're not a billionaire, that the donor advised fund isn't for you. And nothing could be further from the truth. You know, it turns out all the research actually shows most of the giving in this country is actually just from individuals. You know, people like you and me. Like I said, those 50 to 60 million American households who are very generous and believe that some of their money, hard earned money, is not just for them, it's to actually support others. Right. That old fashioned idea of helping people less fortunate than yourselves is still very universal. And so the idea of having a donor advised fund is just a smart money thing, of having this separate account for your giving. I think the myth that I see about donor advised funds is that somehow it's incredibly difficult, right? Or sophisticated. Like if you don't have a professional financial advisor, it's not something you could do, but it isn't, right? Most of our members, you know, they open up an account, they Fill in their information. I mean, Daffy is free under $100 and it's only $3 a month otherwise. There was a time where setting up a bank account was a whole arduous journey. But, you know, that was solved online 20 years ago. People open up accounts online all the time now. There's nothing super difficult about having a donor advised fund. You just have to know that they exist. Actually take a few minutes to do it. You know, our mission is to help people be more generous more often, it turns out. I mean, I teach this class at Stanford in personal finance, and I actually start the class with behavioral finance. All the emotions.
- [17:19]
Joe Saul Sehi
My favorite part. Yeah, of course, by far my favorite part.
- [17:22]
Adam Nash
It turns out that you know the same reason why if you want to save for retirement. Well, right, you want that money coming out of your paycheck automatically. You make that smart decision once and then you automate it. It turns out the same research that shows why that works for retirement also applies to giving. It turns out if you just set a number, whatever the number is, no judgment. Everyone's different on how much they can and how much they think they should give. But just picking a number and automating it turns out to lead people to be more generous. In fact, the. The research says that people who pre commit, who set a goal for their giving, on average end up giving 32% more.
- [17:56]
Joe Saul Sehi
Wow.
- [17:57]
Adam Nash
Which is why we built the platform. We did.
- [17:59]
Joe Saul Sehi
It's why goal setting works in general for anything.
- [18:01]
Adam Nash
Right, Exactly.
- [18:02]
Joe Saul Sehi
You actually got to set it down, put it in writing and do it. Also, I think, you know, sometimes I get pushback from people about the idea of bucketing, about there's, you know, there's more efficient ways to do things and setting up these buckets. But I think behaviorally, Adam, what you're talking about makes a ton of sense. If I bucket this off and I have this set spot, like in my head, which most of my problems investing are between my ears, in my head, I know exactly where my giving is. I feel like even if it's not, quote, the most efficient. And I don't know why in this case it wouldn't be. It just works so well. Yeah.
- [18:34]
Adam Nash
And there's no question, I mean, bucketing is a form of, as you know, mental accounting that we do. We like to label things. We're humans, we label things. We. We give them narrative, we give them stories. This money is for this, this money is for that. And what I teach my students is that, that it's not a good or bad thing, but it is a powerful thing. You have to respect it. It's a powerful thing. And so if you're going to label money, label it for something that matters. So if you're going to label this money for retirement or label this money for your children's college education, those are generally good things I'm supportive of because those are meaningful goals for people and labeling gives them more power. The same thing applies for charity. Most of us, when we support organizations, we care about supporting them. Like I said, if it's your church or synagogue, if it's your child's school, if it's your alma mater, we actually feel bad if we can't make those commitments, if we can't fulfill. No one likes to say, oh, I can't give this year because of XYZ or et cetera. And so just recognizing that a goal is important to you. Labeling, it turns out to have a lot of value because it lets you plan for it. When it comes to money, no one likes surprises. And money is stressful enough, especially budgets and making sure that you have some put aside for yourself and your loved ones. And so I love the idea in general of extending that to charity and just being honest. And like I said, I recommend most people just look, you know, what did you give to charity last year? We do that scramble at the end of the year anyway for those donation.
- [19:57]
Joe Saul Sehi
Receipts for taxes last week of the year.
- [19:59]
Adam Nash
Everyone's searching their Gmail or they have the printed out receipts somewhere on their desk in a folder. But like instead of just doing that for taxes, just add up the numbers and then instead of treating it as a one off thing, just put aside. We make it very easy for people to put aside money every week or every month, if that's the way you prefer to do it. Some people prefer to do it end of the year. Right. You know, we, we try to rebalance our portfolios. We were just talking about stock. That's the great opportunity. Whenever you rebalance a portfolio, something outperformed, something underperformed. Those outperformers. You could sell them to rebalance the portfolio. Those are also good candidates to actually donate and get that. Yeah, exactly.
- [20:38]
Joe Saul Sehi
Donate to rebalance.
- [20:39]
Adam Nash
Yeah.
- [20:40]
Joe Saul Sehi
This is an issue I've heard people in charitable giving talk about that they've had with donor advised funds. The latest data I could come up with is 2023. I like that you started this with we're charitable, we want to give to a charity. If you put a donor advised fund in the middle of that continuum, you can do it much more Efficiently, you can create this bucket that makes it easier. But a lot of places you, you know, Adam, a lot of people don't start there. They start with, oh, I get the tax break. I'm going to put the money in the donor advised fund. I'm not sure where it's going to go. I'm not sure where I want it to be. And people in charitable giving go, there is, and this is as of 2023, $53.77 billion sitting in donor advised funds that hasn't been allocated. How do we solve this issue that we've got these wonderful charitable organizations that need this money and we've got these people with donor advised funds that seemingly can't make up their mind, like how I'm going to disseminate it.
- [21:42]
Adam Nash
We were talking about myths earlier. I think there's a myth there about donor advised funds because the donation rates out of donor advised funds are so much higher than foundations or other institutions which are usually keyed around 5%. I mean, at DAFI alone last year, over 38% of the money that had been contributed the year before ended up going out in donations that year. So that the donations actually move very, very quickly. I do think it depends though a little bit on how the software is designed. Does it encourage you to give? But the donation rates are very high. You know, we spent a lot of time talking to nonprofit organizations and I will tell you there's some truth to the fact that, you know, look, they're raising money, they'd always prefer some money now. They need money now for their budget. But let's be clear, these institutions, if you really talk to the development officers and the people who run them, what they really need is ongoing support. There is a reason why universities have endowments and why if you want to actually fund a mission or an organization for the long term, you need continuing support. The way I think about donor advised funds is it's kind of like having your own mini endowment where you can, instead of just one off making the decision every year, you can set up a recurring donation so that that organization you support is getting support to pay their people to fund their mission every year, not just the one time they asked you. And I think if you talk to most organizations, one of their top priorities right now is actually just that is getting recurring support. But once again to the financial conversation. It's very hard providing recurring support to an organization if you don't fund it. And that means you need an account somewhere. I actually think that more and more organizations are realizing that donor advised funds are, are the key to them not just getting a one time donation, but having an ongoing relationship with their donors.
- [23:32]
Joe Saul Sehi
Which is really budget. Then every year figure out what they're, what they got coming in.
- [23:37]
Adam Nash
Well, listen, I've been on the board of several nonprofits. Sometimes you get a really big donation, someone comes through, maybe something meaningful, maybe they had an event in their life, maybe someone passed away. But you get this big donation, it actually creates this problem for the organization that they have to deal with because there's this urgency to try and spend the money now to use it because people want to see that. But actually the mission of the organization is not just for this year. Like there's no charity out there who's just focused on 2025. Right. If they're feeding hungry people, they need to feed people in 2026 also and 2027. And so we really encourage people when they set up their accounts to think about the organizations they support. And instead of just making a one off donation, we make it very easy to create a recurring donation so that you don't forget. I mean we are all busy. A lot of things happen in life, family, work, et cetera. It really is meaningful for most people to know that the organizations that they support, it's going to be on an ongoing basis and that way they can be more connected.
- [24:34]
Joe Saul Sehi
This goes back, Adam, to behavior. Right. I mean if I've got to remember it, it's not going to happen. If I've got it set up on a recurring basis and then I can adjust it once or twice a year, I think much more, much more likely to happen. I want to ask one more one on one question, which is I move the money to DAFI or I move it to any donor advised fund. A lot of our stackers may not know this. If I haven't chosen where to put it or I am trying to build that foundation, quote unquote to build a pile of money, I can invest the money while it's inside the donor advised fund, correct?
- [25:08]
Adam Nash
That's correct. Different donor advised funds offer different options for doing that. At dafy we try to make that very easy for people to do because people have different intentions for the money. Right. Like if you plan to give it away very quickly, maybe it belongs in a money market fund or a portfolio of bonds and fixed income. If it's for a longer period of time, a diversified portfolio of index funds might be the right option. Advisors actually love that feature.
- [25:33]
Joe Saul Sehi
Sure.
- [25:33]
Adam Nash
Really what we see is that different people have different levels of Comfort and different senses of risk when it comes to money. That's for charity. Like I said, it's amazing the psychology around money, and we're not judgmental about that. But whatever you prefer. Some people want to see that money grow so they have more money to give and they're willing to take more risk with it. Other folks, this money is, is for a good cause. I don't want to see $1 lost. And so in general, you can make those choices with a donor advised fund. It's very flexible.
- [26:01]
Joe Saul Sehi
I'm glad you transferred a little bit into Daffy because I do want to talk now about, specifically about your organization. What was the moment, Adam, that made you go or you and other people go? You know what? I'm going to start Daffy. Like, where did this come from?
- [26:16]
Adam Nash
It really struck me one day. I mean, I have four children. They all went to a school where every Friday they brought spare change to their class, put in a little piggy bank, and they would vote on which charity every quarter to give that money to which local. I thought it was a great way to teach kids about giving. I mean, if you search Amazon, all the piggy banks, this is the money you can spend. This is the money to save for a rainy day, and this is the money to give. I mean, we, we care so much about giving that we teach our children about.
- [26:43]
Joe Saul Sehi
Is a piggy bank behind you, one of those, by the way?
- [26:45]
Adam Nash
Oh, that's right. We do have a piggy bank up here.
- [26:47]
Joe Saul Sehi
That's right. For people watching the YouTube version of this, you'll see the piggy bank right behind Adam.
- [26:52]
Adam Nash
Yeah, yeah. But it really struck me that it's so important. But all this great technology, Think about the number of new financial products in the last 20 years. Things to help us save better, spend better, invest better. Where was the product to help us give? And so my co founder, Alejandro and I really felt like we could use all this incredible technology the last 10 to 15 years. But instead of focusing it on giving people, you know, excitement when they buy a stock or, you know, you mentioned goal, saying we could use all those same techniques to help people do something good, which is to help them give. And so that's where Daffy was born. We try to keep it simple. I mean, Daffy stands for the donor advice fund for you. I mean, if you ask an engineer to name a company, you kind of get something like that. I'm just letting you know that's what you get. But no, it's been a wonderful journey because it turns out to be true. There is so much opportunity to make this easier for people. So many people don't know about the tax benefits. So many people don't realize that they can have the money invested. And to me and my co founder that was just a, in some ways that was a product problem. Right. Like we could build a better product to help people. And so you know, whether you go to dafy.org we try to make it easy to get started. You can download the app off the app store if you want to get a little extra money even it turns out we will give you an extra $25 if you refer someone to, to give to the charity of your choice. So these all sound familiar because we've seen them around the web for all these services. I mean I still spend too much online so. Sure thing.
- [28:15]
Joe Saul Sehi
But referring people to do the right thing, that's pretty cool.
- [28:17]
Adam Nash
That's right. So that's where the energy really came from. And then we got the team together, we were grateful to get enough funding to be able to build a great team and launched the product almost four years ago. And it's just been a phenomenal. You know the first year we watched people put aside about 20 million for charity. The second year we that number grew well over a hundred million. Last year we ended the year with over 300 million put aside for charity. It's rewarded our faith in the fact that millions and millions of Americans actually care about giving.
- [28:47]
Joe Saul Sehi
You mentioned earlier, and I'm glad you did this about the account fees, how those work, I did want to ask you what's the differentiator between dafi and other donor advised fund platforms?
- [28:58]
Adam Nash
Oh, I mean there are several but actually talking about the fee is a good one. So one of the biggest differentiators between dafi and the other services is almost all the other donor advised funds out there are offered by large financial institutions that are investment services. You know, the Fidelities, the Schwab's, the Vanguards and these are great institutions but they borrowed their business model from those institutions so they charge a percentage of assets. I mean I love Vanguard, I really do. A huge fan of that organization, their products, everything. But even Vanguard charges 66,0 basis points on their donor advised fund up to $500,000. And by the way their minimum is $25,000.
- [29:38]
Joe Saul Sehi
It's a very un Vanguard like number.
- [29:40]
Adam Nash
Well, it turns out if you make that your business model it creates a little bit of conflict because you, you're going to go after the largest accounts. Right. The truth is the Fees off the million dollar account really are about a thousand times more than $1,000 account. And so we set up Daffy. We looked around the nonprofit sector and said, you know what? A lot of great institutions are built off membership. And so actually, Daffy, instead of we don't charge a fee on assets. Instead we just charge a flat transparent membership fee. We're free for under $100. Most of our members pay $3 a month. For families that actually want to involve their children or maybe their siblings or parents or grandparents in giving, we have a family plan at $5 a month. And at the high end, if you really are giving larger amounts of money, we charge $20 a month. And that comes with like the custom portfolio, et cetera. The other big differentiator for us turns out to be just the technology. It's really noticeable, right? It's not just the app and the App Store. We're located in Silicon Valley. We have some of the best engineers and designers out there. You know, they don't just have to be building the next iPhone or, you know, the next social network or anything like that. It turns out you can use those people to actually help build great interfaces to help people give. And so I think those are the two biggest differentiators. I will say we have a lot of new features that are unique. We let people do things like send gifts. Instead of giving someone $100, you can actually send them a gift card where $100 they can give to the charity of their choice. And it comes out of your donor advised fund.
- [31:07]
Joe Saul Sehi
That's cool.
- [31:08]
Adam Nash
You know, most recently, we've seen a lot of activity around Daffy campaigns, right? So if instead of giving to your kids school, you want to say, hey, I'll match $1,000 the next thousand dollars that people give to the local school, you can do that right out of your donor advice fund.
- [31:24]
Joe Saul Sehi
We had a stacker. We were recording an episode yesterday that people will hear on Friday, which kind of rounds out this week. And a generous stacker named Paul. Paul wrote me right afterwards, and I could see his Daffy. His Daffy donation to partnership for the pathway, which is this pathway building organization. To me he goes, this is just to support you and to do part of my charitable giving this year. I was like, what an honor for everybody.
- [31:49]
Adam Nash
That's fantastic.
- [31:50]
Joe Saul Sehi
It was so kickass. Well, thank you, Paul, by the way.
- [31:52]
Adam Nash
That's our whole philosophy. So we built Daffy around this basic concept that it's not really about the donor advice fund itself. It's about actually doing what people want to do, which is to be generous and just helping them make that easier to give. And so we in general, if supporting crypto makes it easier for some people to give, I mean, most institutions don't support crypto. Still none of the major donor advice ones do. We support every crypto that coinbase does. Right. So if you happen to have been in that market, we'll support it. Like I said, the gift cards, the campaigns, we are always using our energy to try. How can you make it easier for people to do the smart financial thing and the most generous thing with their money? And so I love that story.
- [32:35]
Joe Saul Sehi
Recently on the show, Jesse Kramer, one of our contributors, was talking about fart coin. And now we know what you can do with all your fart coin. You just donate that away.
- [32:45]
Adam Nash
I don't have a specific position on that, that specific asset, but if some of it went to charity, I got to think that's better than some alternatives.
- [32:53]
Joe Saul Sehi
Might be a better use. You've thought a lot clearly over the last half hour about philanthropy. You could have one dream dinner guest that you're going to talk philanthropy with. Who would that be?
- [33:05]
Adam Nash
Oh, that's a wonderful question. I think I'm thinking of all these incredibly generous people who've actually built foundations over the years, et cetera, and which ones have stood the test of time and giving. I don't know if I have a specific name, but I will tell you that I've been really fascinated with the giving that happened a little bit more than 100 years ago where people really set up institutions that we now all depend on. Right. Like generations later. You know, there's that old expression, you know, when's the right time to plant a tree? Well, the right time was 10 years ago. You know, the second best time is today. And so I have that feeling where I see more and more people who really want to have not just impact today, but over very long periods of time, meaningful impact that help their children, their grandchildren. And, and there are some of those big donors from a hundred years ago who are just so. They had so much foresight about the institutions they set up. So I apologize, I don't have a specific name, but that's kind of the category that I'm thinking of.
- [34:03]
Joe Saul Sehi
That's fabulous. We were just talking about recently, Andrew Carnegie, one of those people.
- [34:07]
Adam Nash
That's a good example. Yeah. It requires a certain level of thinking, really long term thinking, which unfortunately we're in maybe short supply these days to really thinking about not just what's meaningful today or this year, this decade. But what's going to be meaningful on an ongoing basis? I mean, some of the universities that we all treasure and depend on weren't just accidents of history. They were intentional desires to set up institutions that have stood the test of time.
- [34:32]
Joe Saul Sehi
Well, and this gets back to that $53 billion question I asked and how that can be a driver of. I mean, that could just be a sun that gives off heat of so much money to so many organizations. I like your answer to that question. Adam. Thank you for mentoring our stackers today on donor advice funds. Man, I appreciate the work that you do so and really appreciate your time.
- [34:53]
Adam Nash
No, Joe, and I appreciate the podcast and what you're doing. And thanks for having me on.
- [35:01]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
Hey there Stackers. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and today we embrace our forefathers in this newish industry of podcasting with a look back to Today's date in 1920. That's when the first commercial radio station was founded in one badass American city. Only 11 days after it was created, this radio station began encouraging its listeners to hold wireless parties in their homes to hear the first US Broadcast of election returns. A month later, this same radio station aired radio's first vocal program, a soprano singing the Last Rose of Summer. You remember that old hit, don't you Joe? This station, still on the air today and broadcasting a signal that reaches across the Midwest, emanates from which American city? Here's a clue. It isn't WKRP in Cincinnati and it isn't Pittsburgh. The fact that this station we're focused on had been called the first was Pooh Poohed by Pittsburgh station kdka. But the national association of Broadcasters ruled that KDKA was ten and a half weeks younger than the station we're talking about. So which city is this radio station from? I'll be back with the answer right after I see what's playing on Old Time Radio.
- [36:26]
Joe Saul Sehi
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- [37:57]
Adam Nash
Is the story breaking right now.
- [37:59]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
Fox one is coming soon, which means.
- [38:02]
Adam Nash
Soon you can be there live for.
- [38:04]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
All the biggest moments. She is gone and witness history as it's made.
- [38:11]
Joe Saul Sehi
It's not about me. It's about what this human spaceflight program is about.
- [38:15]
Len Penzo
It's our national goals.
- [38:16]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
Get all of your favorite news, sports and entertainment with a side of I.
- [38:20]
Adam Nash
Think I may have peed a little.
- [38:22]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
All in one app streaming live on August 21st. Fox 1. Hey there stackers. I'm radio lover and guy with a voice for tv, Joe's mom's neighbor Doug. Wait, what? Today we're celebrating the birth of America's first commercial radio station. Way back in 1920. This station quickly scored lots of other firsts. According to Time magazine, it claims to have broadcast the first play by play accounts of baseball and football games, World Series game, prize fight and full symphony concert. Tons of stars made their radio debut on this iconic station. What American city is this station in now known as wwj, the first American commercial station was and still is located in the historic Fisher Building in Midtown Detroit. Or sorry, as we say locally, Detroit. And now two guys who are pioneers in podcasting from a basement and bragging about it. It's Joe and og. And oh yeah, that Len guy too. He's pretty good.
- [39:36]
Joe Saul Sehi
Yeah, Len gets to brag about it with us today. It's always fun to brag. Hey, guess which basement I'm in today? But at least we own it. How many Podcasters don't own it. That they're really a mom's basement.
- [39:48]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
You know, I have to. When I tell people about the podcast, I often have to say, because podcasting is now such a thing. That's just. I mean, it's a normal part of everyday life. Even people who don't listen to podcasts know what they are. I have to explain that when we started this, we were owning the stigma, that it was just people who were still. Yeah, two dudes living in their mom's basement who, you know, couldn't actually do the things they were talking about. So they just decided to talk about it, you know, like, if you can't do teach kind of thing. But that was the stigma way back in the early days.
- [40:21]
Joe Saul Sehi
Was that an episode? You and me together? Oh, gee. When the stack of books holding up your microphone fell over like we were in the middle of a podcast.
- [40:29]
OG
I mean, that's happened. So, yeah.
- [40:33]
Joe Saul Sehi
Oh, the good old days.
- [40:34]
Len Penzo
Do you still have the old episodes 1 and 2 and 3? Because I have the recordings, least the ones.
- [40:39]
Joe Saul Sehi
Do you?
- [40:40]
Len Penzo
Well, remember, because we had to record our own parts, so at least I have my parts. I don't know if it records, but if you ever want them for your archives, I can send them to you.
- [40:47]
Joe Saul Sehi
I have, like. Well, you know, when the trivia comes for us.
- [40:50]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
I was going to say, when the Smithsonian calls, we'll let you know.
- [40:54]
Joe Saul Sehi
We'll be. We'll be right on that. Hey, let's do a headline, guys. Hello, darlings.
- [41:00]
Len Penzo
And now it's time for your favorite.
- [41:02]
OG
Part of the show, our stacking Benjamin's Headlines.
- [41:06]
Joe Saul Sehi
Our headline today is brought to you by nhtsa. More on NHTSA in just a moment, but this is from the Charlotte observer, and it is car insurance claims dues and don'ts. I found this really interesting because maybe some of our younger stackers have never been at the scene of an accident. I remember my first accident and not knowing what the heck was. What's going on, what to do? What do I do? What don't I do? I'm high, tailing and out of there. Yeah. Like, what do you do? What don't you do? I remember standing on the side of the road with this guy that we'd had this fender bender in the ice, and the guy comes over to me and he goes, what are we waiting for? And I said, we're waiting for the police. Because I called it in. And the guy goes, we're inside Detroit city limits. The police aren't coming. He's like, There will be no police coming. They. They are not. We just need to exchange information and get out of here. And by and large, I ended up later on talking to my dad and then talking to our insurance agent at the time, and they said I didn't do it completely. Right. But we got, we got part of this. Right. So car insurance claims, do's and don'ts, number one, do report the accident. You're legally obligated to report any auto accident that results in death, bodily injury, property damage of $1,500 if all vehicles are insured, or $500 otherwise. When police officers arrive at the scene, provide factual statements about the moments leading up to car accident. You've been an offender, bender, Len.
- [42:37]
Len Penzo
I bet I certainly have. I think my last one was about 12, 13 years ago on one of Southern California's wonderful freeways. Yes, nobody got hurt, but did some damage to my car. And luckily the person in front of me who I rear ended, yes, it was my fault, didn't have any damage, so for them, but I had a crumpled hood and yeah, I was able to get the car home, limp it home.
- [43:04]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
I was involved in1 like 15 days ago.
- [43:07]
Joe Saul Sehi
Did you really?
- [43:08]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
Yeah, seriously, I hit, you know, give or take. Yeah, I hit a deer. Well, the deer hit me. Yeah, seriously.
- [43:14]
OG
I mean, I was minding my own business in the middle of the road when this deer ran out.
- [43:19]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
The deer ran, I mean, just sprinting. She just. Out of tall weeds. Bizarre. It's not even rut season, so I don't even know why she was running the way she was. And it was daylight or, you know, dusk, so that's when the activity's high. But yeah, it happened so fast that my reaction time, which is lightning quick, you know, I was hitting the brakes after the deer was already spinning out back into the field from whence she came. But as far as reporting it, what I found out, this is the second time I've hit a deer, is the first time I did it. It was at about one in the morning and I wasn't quite. I limped home, wasn't sure what to do. I'm googling, what do I do if I hit a deer? And you do need to call the police if you want to submit an insurance claim. They need a report number. So, you know, this could be helpful to some people because a lot of times you just think, I only need to do that if. If it involves like another vehicle or, you know, people. But yeah, if I did that, my deductible, because it was involving an animal dropped to $100, which I understand is pretty, pretty common across insurance carriers that your deductible is.
- [44:26]
Len Penzo
So is that comprehensive or collision? Is that filed under comprehensive or collision insurance?
- [44:32]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
Believe it's collision, but actually it's a great question. I don't know, you guys, we should.
- [44:37]
Len Penzo
Find out because a lot of people don't carry comprehensive. You know, they'll carry the collision and they'll pass on the comprehensive or whatever.
- [44:42]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
Yeah.
- [44:42]
OG
So, yeah, we have it all. But in our town, the cops said to my son, after he was in an accident, if there's no injuries, you don't have to call the cops. We didn't witness it, so we're not going to be able to give you any sort of information around. You know, we can just say it appears that car A and car B were in an accident. We will have no opinion as to how it happened or why it happened or assigned blame or anything. If there's an injury, you do have to have the. The police present, for obvious reasons. But yeah, the police officer. My son's accident said, what are you guys waiting for? Kind of the same thing for you, Joe. What are we doing? Yeah, like we exchange insurance and off we go and. And that sort of thing.
- [45:23]
Joe Saul Sehi
I was told, though, and this was true in Detroit, I had to drive to the nearest station with all that information and I did had to have to file a police report.
- [45:31]
OG
It seems like you would need to have one for insurance purposes. The only times that I've been in an accident have been pretty profound. So we weren't going anywhere.
- [45:40]
Joe Saul Sehi
Oh, years were doozies.
- [45:42]
OG
Yeah. The last accident that I can remember was we were driving home from fireworks, stone cold sober. Sometimes the good Lord works in mysterious ways. But you're at a beach barbecue party, you're inevitably going to have a beer or two for whatever reason that day. I was like, I'm good, I'm good. We're driving home. It's 4th of July, it's late. I'm good, thankfully, because this guy came, blew through the stop sign as we were coming through. There was no. No stop sign for us. He went through. I swerved and he hit the car, spun it around. One of the kids started crying. The other one went, cool, dad, do it again. Because. Because we're driving 65 miles an hour down the road. Oh, that's a bunch of donuts in the middle of the road, full speed.
- [46:28]
Len Penzo
You're lucky, OG, because when I was 16, going. We were going to. Me and my buddy were driving to high School. It was early in the morning. It was really foggy. We were at a red light. You could barely see the lights. We got the green light, we went into the intersection, and we got t boned on my side of the car. And I was in one of those. Remember those early Honda? I call them roller skates. The little teeny Hondas. They were very small, almost like those.
- [46:52]
OG
You ended up in your buddy's lap, I bet.
- [46:53]
Len Penzo
Oh, I put me in the hospital for two weeks.
- [46:55]
Adam Nash
Oh, wow.
- [46:56]
Len Penzo
The guy hit us. It was. Yeah, because I took the brunt of it. So you're very fortunate. They estimated the guy was only going 35 when he hit, and that's. That was enough to put me in the hospital for two weeks. Yeah, I surgeries.
- [47:07]
OG
I swerved as I saw him, like, away from it, and that gave us just enough space to hit the back quarter panel as opposed to smashing the side of the suv. And it was just. It was like a pit maneuver as a cop, literally, like, we went like. And ended up not in the ditch, but, like, on the shoulder. And I'm like, you know, and my wife started crying, and one of the kids started crying, and the other kid was like, that was awesome, dad.
- [47:33]
Adam Nash
Do it again.
- [47:33]
Len Penzo
Yeah, that's quite a shock.
- [47:34]
Joe Saul Sehi
I wanted to verify this before I said anything earlier, and I just did. Hitting a deer. Typically covered under comprehensive notion.
- [47:42]
OG
That makes sense.
- [47:43]
Joe Saul Sehi
The second do on this list is do seek medical treatment. Even if you feel like you're going to be okay. If you have anything, anything at all, you. A lot of the time you're so shocked by what happened that you're like, yeah, I'm good. And things don't appear until a day later, two days later. So. Car accidents can result in serious injuries, they write, including broken bones, traumatic brain injury, spinal cord injuries. Promptly seek medical attention. Best way to protect your health. Third, do collect information when you're at the scene, including the other driver's insurance information, their address, their driver's license number, and their vehicle information. Collect the names and phone numbers of any witnesses. I think the witness piece, guys, is really important. My son had an accident where he was not at fault. There was a guy on a motorcycle who was driving super fast. It's kind of complicated how it happened, but not my son's fault. And the dude on the motorcycle was in a group of four motorcycles. And guess what happened? All three of the dudes in the other motorcycles said that Nick was at fault.
- [48:45]
Len Penzo
Wow.
- [48:46]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
What do you know?
- [48:46]
Joe Saul Sehi
There were a couple other people who came up To Nick and said, I saw the whole thing. Do you want me to be a witness? And Nick not wanting to. It's his first time ever having something like this happen. He goes, no, I think we're good. I think it was pretty obvious that it was. Well, at the scene, it was obvious. But when he's got three guys saying wasn't him, Nick ended up taking the brunt of that.
- [49:06]
Len Penzo
You know, your best witness you can have is a dash cam front and back. If you can do that. That's what. My daughter had the same thing. She was hit. It wasn't her fault. The guys told a different story than what happened.
- [49:17]
OG
And your dash cam can be used in other people's correct accidents also. There's some weird thing about that, and every state's a little different. But there's like, I remember somebody telling me, maybe it was you, Len, because it wouldn't be surprising that you would know this. I think you can sell your dash cam video to another accident victim, but, like, only if it's like you sell it to the lawyer or something. I don't know. There's some weird. There's some weird thing that you can, you know, basically, you should have a dash cam because it might be worth money someday. That's the tldr that I got out of it. Some property or personal injury lawyers get a call and go, what are you idiots talking about?
- [49:51]
Joe Saul Sehi
It's actually a true story. Og that lens actually created a new website, Only dash cam, and people can pay $10, $20 a month and watch Dash cam footage from lens.
- [50:04]
OG
Sounds pretty awesome.
- [50:05]
Len Penzo
You know, on YouTube, there are so many cool dash cam YouTube channels that you can see crashes after CR car crashes, some real and some really other stupid stuff.
- [50:13]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
They're all in Russia.
- [50:15]
Joe Saul Sehi
They're all in Russia.
- [50:16]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
It's amazing. It seems like. Like it's a requirement in Russia to have dash cams because it seems like that's all of the footage I see.
- [50:23]
Joe Saul Sehi
You know, next up on their list. And then I think I like the dash cam idea better, but do take pictures. The accident seats could be cleaned up pretty quickly. Take as many pictures can. The other cars involved all property damage, the accident scene, the cross streets, skid marks, broken auto parts, tire treads, other physical evidence. That's a big one. Any signs that might be relevant to the claim and then review your One.
- [50:44]
Len Penzo
Thing, Joe, one thing and take pictures, even if there's no damage. Because what they'll do is they'll come back at first and they'll say, oh, yeah, I'm fine. I'm good. Like in my case, I hit the guy in front of me. There was no damage to his car. My car took all the. But I took pictures with my phone of everything of the area I hit. So if he came back and said, hey, you know, there was a. He did something to his car later, scratched it or whatever, and he wanted a new paint job, whatever, I had proof that said, no, this is what your car was when I hit it, and it was in good shape. So do that to take pictures, even if there's no damage.
- [51:18]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
And I'm supposed to take pictures of my skid marks. Is that what I heard there, Joe?
- [51:23]
Joe Saul Sehi
And then you might be referring to different marks. Oh, do review your insurance coverage. You want to do this ahead of time if possible. Everybody reviews what they pay for, but you don't know what you get. Review both your coverage and your exclusion sections of your auto insurance policy, and if you have a good understanding of what your policy covers, then you can fight. And this is to your point, Doug, to receive the full value benefits you're entitled to under your claim. So the insurance company should do a good job of representing themselves fairly about what you get. But if you know in writing what you have, there may be even more that they're not telling you. On that note, do save receipts. Medical bills, cost to repair, replace your vehicle, Future medical treatment. Lost wages and reduced earning capacity. Pain and suffering. Mental distress. The mental distress one is the one that always kind of gets me because I don't know, sometimes I'm just in metal distress hanging out with you guys. Like, what's, what's that number? How do you come up with that number? They also talk about, by the way, if you're really not sure that the insurance company is treating you right and they're really negotiating hard, they. That's when you go see a personal injury attorney and get a second opinion or get an opinion of, of an attorney that's, that's dealt with these types of claims before. The don'ts don't speculate or volunteer extra information. Well, what I think was happening was this the second one. Don't admit fault. Even if you suspect you were at fault, you don't know the law and you could very well be wrong.
- [52:56]
OG
Do not self incriminate.
- [52:58]
Joe Saul Sehi
Yeah. And don't negotiate directly with the other driver. I had this happen once. I, I actually did negotiate with the other driver. I went back and looked at my car. My car was fine. His car was a mess. He clearly did not want the Cops to come. He did not want the cops to come.
- [53:12]
OG
We're good, bro.
- [53:14]
Joe Saul Sehi
He took I think it was 700 out of his wallet and just goes, do you think this is enough? He goes, he goes, your car doesn't have a scratch. And I looked at my bumper and it was used. Old car. Doug, you remember the old Ford Aerostar?
- [53:27]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
Oh, such a great car.
- [53:29]
Joe Saul Sehi
I think that car was worth 700 bucks. So he shows me. He shows me $700. I'm like, done.
- [53:37]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
You're out of here.
- [53:38]
Joe Saul Sehi
I don't know what you're running from, but I don't really care. Yeah, I actually had somewhere to be, too, so I needed to get to an appointment as well.
- [53:46]
Len Penzo
Yeah, the bank.
- [53:48]
Joe Saul Sehi
Yeah. Deposit that money, but don't negotiate with the other driver. And then finally, don't give the insurance company written statements before you review your policy. Know what you're actually talking about. Don't do anything to make your injuries worse. I don't know why you would do that. And then this is the big one, Doug, that you talked about. Don't accept an insurance agent's evaluation without question.
- [54:09]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
Yeah, I mean, get on kbb. Get on whatever valuation tool you can get on and get a couple of different estimates and you can, you can, you can negotiate. You mean I got lucky. Like I said earlier, I got lucky and was able to wait it out. And then through some administrative process errors on that side, it lasted so long that some pretty senior person finally said, what are we doing? Because they were paying storage for that totaled vehicle at a collision shop the whole time I was waiting this out. And they realized they were just losing money hand over fist. So I ended up getting a pretty good deal just to have them get it off their books. So every situation is different, but. But definitely don't just take what they offer.
- [54:48]
Len Penzo
Can you see the negotiation with the insurance guys, though, that you're going to say, hey, look, KBB says my, you know, excellent. My car's in excellent condition. It's worth 35,000 and the insurance guy's going to go look at your car. It's a total wreck. It's not worth, you know, that's. That's poor condition at best. So you're lucky to get what I'm going to give you.
- [55:04]
Joe Saul Sehi
You know, it's definitely going to be a back and forth. I mean, this, to me, is why. Why it frustrates me when people just look at their car insurances and they look at what do I pay. They don't think about what do I get. And maybe it makes sense to put in your budget maybe a little bit more for one of these reputable companies versus. Versus just the cheapest thing that I can get so that you're. So you're covered later. I mean, oh, gee, we've talked about this on Monday with Tim Semro with the attorney. These insurance policies aren't really where you start. Like, start with, what's the magnitude and how is this going to affect things.
- [55:40]
OG
As you're looking through your insurance coverages, we all shop on price, but you got to shop on what your exposure is. And then once you get a sense of what your exposure needs to look like or what your risk management is, then you can go and say, okay, I can compare apples to apples. We're doing a comparison shop right now for business insurance that we have. The person called and said, hey, can I quote you a new policy? And I know yours is coming due and all this stuff. Because he goes, I save you guys $4,000 a year. I said, great, send it over. And he sends it over, and it's the minimum coverage for a bunch of stuff. And then the headline number is the same. So it's like, you're covered here. But all this other stuff don't pay attention to this. So I sent it back to him and I said, this isn't apples to apples. I can't. You know, I'm not convinced I need that higher coverage. But I need you to explain to me why I wouldn't. And also give me a quote that's apples to apples. Because I can't. I don't know how to look at this without having a fair comparison.
- [56:32]
Adam Nash
So.
- [56:32]
OG
So be careful when you're shopping on price. Cause you'll get the lowest price. You know, it's like, yeah, right. When you're buying a car and the guy goes, how much do you want to spend? He'll get your price to 300amonth. You know, there's a way to do it. It take you 700 years.
- [56:49]
Joe Saul Sehi
And that's why if you're like, well, you know, my budget doesn't handle more insurance coverage. I mean, maybe it's time to sit down and look at other areas of your budget. You really gotta sit down and go through your budget.
- [56:59]
OG
Do you need to have a Mercedes then? You know, maybe you should be driving a $8,000 car. I mean, honestly, that's not wrong, right? It's like, we were just having this conversation with William because we got a Corvette for his birthday. And he's like, how much would this cost, you know, and he started pricing. He goes, dad, this is only $30,000 for this car. And I said, yeah, how much does it cost to maintain it? How much is the insurance? We looked it up and the insurance was $24,000 a year. It's like, it's not the 30 that gets you. It's the 2 grand a month of insurance for a 16 year old on a Corvette. So looks like you don't have that kind of money to afford. You got to piece all that together. The answer isn't necessarily go make more money, although that would be fine, too. It's maybe you shouldn't drive a Corvette at 16.
- [57:40]
Joe Saul Sehi
Speaking of budget, Doug, before we hit record, you said you had a story about budgeting.
- [57:45]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
Joe, I knew a guy who did his budget while he was high. He listed snack runs under fixed expenses.
- [57:51]
Joe Saul Sehi
Oh, my God, somebody got the but on. Pumpkin, that is exactly why you don't drive or make financial decisions. When you're impaired, if you feel different, you drive different. Did you know that driving under the influence of marijuana is illegal? And if you drive while you're high, law enforcement can definitely tell if you feel different, you drive different, drive high, get a DUI paid for by nhtsa. Definitely you'll be speculating at the seat of the. The crime. If you're. Here's what I think happened. Man, I know exactly what happened.
- [58:23]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
Really slowly and relaxed.
- [58:25]
Joe Saul Sehi
Yeah, yeah. Not great time for us to wander onto the back porch before we say goodbye and find out what's going on in the neighborhood. Doug, what do we got?
- [58:34]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
Joe, you got a great live webinar coming up we should probably talk about. And a great meetup coming up.
- [58:40]
Joe Saul Sehi
Well, not. Not that great because you guys aren't joining me. Was when you want to drive up to Portland and. Yeah. Yes, I invited you again on Monday.
- [58:48]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
I was.
- [58:49]
Joe Saul Sehi
And again, I was uninvited. Yeah, well, that is true as well. But, Len, you want to drive up to Portland, Oregon?
- [58:55]
Len Penzo
You know what? I'll start hitchhiking, and if I get there in time, you know, I'll be there. I'll see you.
- [58:59]
Joe Saul Sehi
You just got to be there by September 9th. We'll be at Broadway Grill and Brewery 6:30pm and that's. So you have till September 9th. I mean, that's enough time to get.
- [59:10]
Len Penzo
All right, well, right after the show, I'll go out. Well, actually, I got my colon cleanse. But when that's all done. And by the way, I think I feel something coming on. Yeah, after that's all done. I'll go out to the corner here and I'll, I'll stick my thumb out and we'll get going.
- [59:22]
Joe Saul Sehi
Head to stacking benjamin.com meetup you'll meet me maybe Len if he makes it in time. The team from catching up to fi is joining us on this and our own Jesse, Jesse Kramer is going to be there.
- [59:34]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
People have to check out these Broadway Grill and Brewery has the best URL you could possibly get if you were a restaurant. Really, it's just, it's this simple. Drink beer here.com.com. how good is that?
- [59:49]
Joe Saul Sehi
How is that still available? Drink beer here. Let's go on to the live webinar. If you know you've heard us talk about HSAs and you have one available but you're really not sure how they work. We're going to do HSA basics for beginners. So this is aimed specifically at people just starting out or don't understand HSAs. How to use a health savings account. Not going to be advanced. It's going to be the 101. So if you know somebody that has an HSA doesn't really get how it works. Stack benjamin.com HSA that's going to be on September 3, 5:30pm Pacific. That is 8:30pm Eastern. Do the math if you're central or mountain. And I think the third thing is Len, we've had several people talk about your new book, dude. So let's dive in. What's it all about?
- [60:36]
Len Penzo
Well, you know, I said, you know what, I'm going to take the best articles, the most popular articles from my blog over these 17 years. And I said I'm going to compile them into a book. And basically there's like 165, 166 of my best posts. They're all pretty much, you know, my usual irreverent fashion. Nothing's very serious in it at all. Everything's very funny. At least I think they're funny anyways. But maybe you might think differently. And if you do think differently, don't, please don't leave a review. Okay? I just. Only five star reviews, please.
- [61:08]
Joe Saul Sehi
I don't know. The back of your book is full of one star reviews.
- [61:12]
Len Penzo
Well, you know what, should I go over some of those reviews here? I'll give some of the. Because I've had enough. I even put these on the back of my book.
- [61:18]
Joe Saul Sehi
These are actual reviews.
- [61:19]
Len Penzo
I didn't make these up.
- [61:20]
Joe Saul Sehi
These are your website over the years.
- [61:22]
Len Penzo
Over the years. These are reviews from my website. People left comments And I actually decided to put these on the back of my. You know, most people put fawning reviews. I did the opposite. This is just a few of them. Says, I'm not sure if Penzo is an idiot or he's just talking about something he knows nothing about. That's from Kathy. Thank you, Kathy. You're on. You're in my book. On the back cover. Here's another one. Penzo seems oblivious to the fact that he's more often than not so very wrong on so many things. And that was. Somebody didn't have the courage to put their name. They just said, no name please. Well, no name please. If you'd have put your name, you'd have been more famous. But whatever. Sunil says, what did I just read? So that was with. And then Randy in Salina. Here's one from him. He says, here in Kansas, we're tired of the dumbing down of America by morons. And it appears Penzo fits in that category. So, Randy, congratulations, you made my book. So anyways, that gives you a flavor of how dumb my book is and why you should probably waste some money and come to Amazon and check it out.
- [62:21]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
I must be on hundreds of back book covers then, if these are the kind of reviews that get put on back book covers.
- [62:27]
Len Penzo
Joe, do you want me to read the one you put or not?
- [62:30]
Joe Saul Sehi
Yes. Yeah, I think mine was the most important one of all.
- [62:33]
Len Penzo
Yes, Joe did make the back cover as well. His was, I was so bored that I had to stop reading after the first hundred words and return the money he paid me to review the book. And that also made the back cover. Thanks, Jenna.
- [62:43]
Joe Saul Sehi
For a little while I thought five bucks is five bucks. But then I realized I could couldn't keep the cash.
- [62:49]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
Done a lot worse. For five bucks.
- [62:51]
Joe Saul Sehi
I didn't know it would make the COVID but when I, when I wrote you that note. What's your personal favorite story of these?
- [62:58]
Len Penzo
Oh, gosh. Probably the one where I was at the restaurant and I couldn't make up my mind between blue cheese dressing and ranch dressing. It's one of the. This is the high quality stuff you're going to get in this book. Believe it or not, I actually, all of these stories I turn into. There's actually lessons on personal finance. This isn't, you know, a stupid book where you don't learn it.
- [63:20]
Joe Saul Sehi
Everyone is laugh, laugh, laugh. But then there's a very serious.
- [63:23]
Len Penzo
There's personal. Every story has a personal. Almost every story. Some of them are completely stupid. But there's personal Finance lesson in all of these. But this is a story about. I couldn't make up my mind. I was at the restaurant struggling between ranch dressing and blue cheese dressing. And it happens to me all the time. Basically, it turns into a story about what's better, credit or debit. So it kind of goes into. We work in, you know, the choice between credit or debit and the. But anyways, when you get to the end, and I'm not going to spoil the ending, but I let the honeybee actually choose which one of those dressings I had. And you'll have to just see, she was very clever in how she chose for me between blue cheese and ranch dressing.
- [64:02]
Joe Saul Sehi
I was going to ask if it mattered if your decision making involved what kind of mood the honeybee was going to be in.
- [64:08]
Len Penzo
Yes. Well, the honeybee was getting irritated whether.
- [64:11]
Joe Saul Sehi
She might smell your breath later, if you know what I mean? Like if she's. If she might smell your breath later, then you got to go with the ranch, but the blue cheese.
- [64:20]
Len Penzo
And actually all of these stories, this is very family oriented. So almost all of these stories involve either either the honeybee or my kids, their issues with personal finance and how they overcome them or didn't overcome them. Not all of these have happy endings, but they all have humor in them. I also bring in the kids, neighborhood kids. I have my taste test challenges, my most popular taste test challenges. In here I have all kinds of things about budgeting and what have you, and all of them are tied to stories related to family. So. So it's all family oriented.
- [64:53]
Joe Saul Sehi
Is this the way that you recoup some of that huge amount of money you had to spend on your kids over the years? You like, get it back by making them characters in your book?
- [65:01]
Len Penzo
You know what, it certainly helped. I mean, the popularity of the blog was because I made it so family oriented. So most people who follow my blog a lot, I mean, they already know my family very well. Nothing was held back. Remember, I got criticism a lot from people saying, gee, your kids are going to read this in 10 years and they're going to, you know, you're showing all their flaws or what have you. It's like, no, it's not anybody's flaws. It's just this is personal finance and they're kids and people are growing up and just how they learn. You'll see their evolution in the book on how they've started off with personal finance from very young. For example, I interviewed the kids that called the interview with the bank of dad. My kids Loan interview. I offered to give them some money they could apply for money at the bank of dad and I gave and I sat down and I actually interviewed him like a bank would interview an adult. And the time they were like nine and seven years old. The answers at the time are quite funny when you get a young kid's answers to certain questions about how much do you make a year? How much do you think your house is worth? Some really funny stuff. So it's all revealing on how family is and personal finance and it's just, it's just fun, light hearted stuff. But each, almost every story has a lesson on personal finance that you can take away.
- [66:12]
Joe Saul Sehi
It's True Money Stories Madcap musings about family life and personal finance on Amazon through lenpezo.com go to either one of those. We'll have a link in our show notes. Len, man, thanks for hanging out with us again. Good seeing you.
- [66:24]
Len Penzo
Thank you. A pleasure as always.
- [66:27]
Joe Saul Sehi
Doug, you're going to finish this thing off for us. We got a big long to do list after today's show with Adam and Len. What are our top three?
- [66:35]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
Well, Joe, first, take some advice from Adam Nash. Thinking about charitable giving. By understanding the rules, you can gift stock shares or appreciated assets and give far more than you might have thought. Second, on the scene of an accident, don't speculate, as they say on old cop shows. Just the facts, ma'. Am. But the big lesson, we've been all over the place today, guys. How do you tie all this together? How about this? Charity starts at home. Len writes about it. And when your car is in the shop, make sure your loaner has enough trunk space for all your tax receipts.
- [67:12]
Adam Nash
Wow.
- [67:13]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
That's what you should have learned. Thanks to Len Penzo for joining us. Today you'll find Len's hot new book. It's hot. So hot. True Money Stories, Madcap musings. It's practically stolen. It's so hot. Called True Money Stories Stories Madcap musings about family life and personal finance on Amazon or through lenpenzo.com I mean it's stolen. Like you stole my time as I was reading it. You know what, because I like you guys, I'll have mom also include links in our show notes@stacking benjamin's.com. this show is the property of SB Podcasts LLC, Copyright 2025 and is created in by Joe Saul Sehi. Joe gets help from a few of our neighborhood friends. You'll find out about our awesome team@stackingbenjamins.com along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello. Oh, yeah. And before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don't take advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And we'll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show.
- [68:45]
Joe Saul Sehi
Sam. You know, Len, the name of your book, True Money Stories. Madcap musings about family life and personal finance. Whenever anybody says the word true to me, like, they start off with a story with, you know, this is a true story. I'm like, okay, so the rest of these were lies, like everything else you've told me. Like, did it ever occur to you to maybe call this fake money stories? You know what?
- [69:41]
Len Penzo
Every single one of these are true. Maybe I embellished a little bit. Okay, I embellished maybe a little bit. But if I embellished, I always did call it out in the book. The parts where I embellished, I did embellish. But I want to bring one one more little story. I mean, some of the things I did. For example, I found a story about Tiger woods house, what he paid for his mortgage and all of his home costs for.
- [70:02]
Joe Saul Sehi
Okay?
- [70:03]
Len Penzo
So I decided to compare that and I put it in a chart. His home carrying costs and his maintenance fees and his lawn, yard, all that compared to mine. So you'll see that right in there. You'll have it. It'll be in a nice Excel spreadsheet, how much he spends on his house, his mansion in Florida, the owns versus mine. And we go step by step all the way down to maintenance fees and what I pay on insurance versus what he pays in insurance. And that's basically true. It's all stuff that I pulled off the Internet.
- [70:33]
Joe Saul Sehi
Well, it's got to be true if it was on the Internet.
- [70:34]
Len Penzo
I can't remember the exact source for that one, but I think it was like People magazine or something like that that had that stuff listed. I said, oh, that's kind of cool, what he was paying for his house. So I, you know, that's the kind of stuff. I did the same thing with weddings, too. I compared my wedding to, remember the Chelsea Clinton got married. It was like a $10 million wedding. So I put her wedding costs, I had it all broken down, compared that to my wedding cost. So you can see that those kind.
- [70:54]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
Of things do those two Things as a percentage of your income, because I bet you they look a lot more frugal than you did.
- [71:03]
Len Penzo
You know what? It wouldn't have been as good if I did it that way. You know what? It wouldn't have been as good, Doug.
- [71:10]
Joe Saul Sehi
That's interesting.
- [71:11]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
Joe, when you were asking about Len, title of his book or even a subtitle, could have been, like, stories of Personal Finance, three of which are true. It just reminded me. It reminded me of the billboard near Kalamazoo for the gentleman's club, shall we say, Deja vu? Do you remember the billboard that said.
- [71:31]
Joe Saul Sehi
Oh, yeah, like, 99 beautiful women and one ugly one?
- [71:34]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
And one ugly one.
- [71:38]
Len Penzo
That's kind of smart, actually.
- [71:40]
Joe Saul Sehi
And 99. You should have named it 99 great stories in one.
- [71:43]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
Horrible.
- [71:43]
Len Penzo
I should have done that. Where were you when I needed you, Doug?
- [71:48]
Joe Saul Sehi
I'm thinking that, you know, holiday season, this could be an early gift with it. You're going to give somebody for the holidays or maybe their birthday or whatever. It makes me wonder, with all those phenomenal reviews you read. Len, like, guys, what is the worst gift you've ever received? Like, if somebody gives this as a gift and they're like, oh, great. Thanks, Doug. What's the worst gift you've ever received?
- [72:10]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
I've been asked this question more often than you'd think, and my answer is always the same. It was the bacon bowl maker.
- [72:20]
Joe Saul Sehi
I forgot the bacon bowl maker.
- [72:22]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
Remember that thing?
- [72:23]
Joe Saul Sehi
It sounds great in theory.
- [72:25]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
Oh, God. But you end up.
- [72:26]
Joe Saul Sehi
Do you know the story of the bacon bowl maker? Because we haven't told this story in seven or eight years.
- [72:31]
Len Penzo
I do not. I don't know what a bacon bowl is. What is a bacon?
- [72:34]
Joe Saul Sehi
Oh, Doug, describe this thing. Maybe we got time for one story today.
- [72:38]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
No, no, no. I mean, I don't know how much depth it's required. The name describes the thing you. It's a pan. Think of, like, a muffin pan, but it's a pan that allows you to wrap not precooked bacon. I'll say real bacon. The floppy, nasty, you know, all slimy because it's full of fat. You put that in each of these individual bowls, and when you bake it, the bacon sort of crisps up in that shape, hardens in the shape of a bowl, and then you can put all of your healthy food in it, like cream, sour cream, cheese, more cheese, your taco salad.
- [73:13]
Adam Nash
Yeah, that's.
- [73:13]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
That's how. But it was just the bacon's, like, flopping inside. It cooks in its own, like, pool of Grease and I. I mean, how do you screw up bacon? That's how you screw up bacon, Len.
- [73:27]
Joe Saul Sehi
What's yours?
- [73:28]
Len Penzo
I'm not topping that one. I just can't top it. No.
- [73:32]
Joe Saul Sehi
I got. For our wedding, we could not figure out who gave this to us, but we got a crystal frog for our wedding. I don't know what it's for. I don't know what it does. The name attached to it got separated. We tried to go through all the other gifts and figure out, like, who came to the wedding that gave us this crystal frog that didn't have a name attack. We have no idea. I just. Cheryl and I have laughed about it.
- [73:56]
Len Penzo
Do you still have it?
- [73:58]
Joe Saul Sehi
No. The crystal frog. Finally, when we had our estate sale, when we sold everything and we left Detroit because we thought we were going to be nomads, turned out I didn't love that the way I thought I would. We finally sold the crystal frog. But for maybe 20 years, Len. We would open up a cupboard and there's the crystal frog. And we'd laugh because, like, who looks at you and goes, you know what? I think you need lens. I think I. Crystal frog.
- [74:23]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
My God, Joe, you have absolutely less depth than I thought you had.
- [74:27]
Joe Saul Sehi
What do you mean?
- [74:28]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
Frogs and grasshoppers are symbols of good luck and fertility. So you will. That's why people give frogs either for birth gifts or wedding gifts.
- [74:40]
Joe Saul Sehi
Yes.
- [74:40]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
And if you're ever in somebody's house and you see a little grasshopper of any kind next to their fireplace, that's where you're supposed to put those. But that's also a good luck thing. And so are upside down pineapples, it turns out, outside of somebody's door.
- [74:56]
Joe Saul Sehi
Put those in your cart around the grocery store and see how much good luck you run into. Or bad luck as it might be.
- [75:03]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
But I'm serious about the frogs and the grasshoppers.
- [75:06]
Len Penzo
Do you have any wedding gifts that you still use? Because one thing in my book that I actually mentioned, I've got called out the 10 best wedding gifts that I was still using. We've been married 30 years. We still have 10 wedding gifts that we're still using at our house.
- [75:18]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
Wow, nice.
- [75:20]
Len Penzo
And they don't. They didn't cost a fortune. So, I mean, people have to think about sometimes wedding gifts. I mean, it's things that actually be. That are great wedding gifts.
- [75:29]
Joe Saul Sehi
One of mine is a griddle that goes on my stove. Just goes over the burners of my stove and makes a nice, nice griddle. Those are awesome. You're still using it. You're still using it?
- [75:38]
Len Penzo
Yeah, that's what for me, it was a casserole. We have a casserole dish. We've been using it for 30 years. Just a fan. And it probably was a very modest gift. And I still think of the people who gave it to me every time I use it.
- [75:47]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
Yeah, we had. My sister in law and brother gave us, but let's be honest, she was the one who picked the gift.
- [75:55]
Joe Saul Sehi
Sure.
- [75:56]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
They gave us a set of plates and dishes which was incredibly useful and helpful. And they last like you, Len. I mean, they lasted maybe not that long, but it was a good 10, 12 years. But eventually you get chips and some of them break and we got one left. But I think of them all the time whenever that one plate makes an appearance.
- [76:13]
Joe Saul Sehi
People been listening to the show for a long time know that I just love this entire series. We've played other ones. But I think it's appropriate, Doug, that you brought up taco salad that we got to finish with this.
- [76:23]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
Oh, yeah. Bud Light presents Real Men of Genius.
- [76:29]
Joe Saul Sehi
Real man of genius.
- [76:33]
Adam Nash
Today we salute you, Mr.
- [76:35]
Joe Saul Sehi
Giant Taco Salad Inventor.
- [76:37]
Len Penzo
Mr.
- [76:37]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
Giant Taco Salad in banta, ground beef.
- [76:41]
Adam Nash
Refried beans, guacamole cheese, sour cream, and.
- [76:45]
Joe Saul Sehi
If there's any room left, a few shreds of lettuce.
- [76:49]
Adam Nash
A culinary creation that baffles the human mind. A 12,000 calorie salad. Some may ask, is your taco salad healthy?
- [77:01]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
Of course it is.
- [77:03]
Adam Nash
It's a salad, isn't it?
- [77:04]
Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)
You can eat that deep fried crunchy bow. So crack open a nice cold bud.
- [77:09]
Adam Nash
Like Conquistador of the Calorie. You put the beast in Fiesta. Mr.
- [77:15]
Joe Saul Sehi
Giant Taco style.
- [77:19]
Len Penzo
They don't make them like that anymore.