Podcast Summary: The Stacking Benjamins Show

Episode: Dr. Danielle McGeough's Guide to Avoiding Burnout (SB1727)

Date: August 27, 2025
Host: Joe Saul-Sehy (with OG and Doug)
Guest: Dr. Danielle McGeough, Professor & Transformational Strategist; Host of "Plan Goal Plan" podcast

Episode Overview

In this lively Labor Day episode, Joe and OG welcome Dr. Danielle McGeough to discuss burnout, demoralization, and how to bring more clarity, purpose, and—even more unexpectedly—playfulness into your work and planning routines. The show keeps its trademark friendly, fun tone while diving deep into practical strategies to reset your mindset, build meaningful rituals, and make sure your day-to-day aligns with the life you want to build. Plus: Listener questions (including how to handle multiple 401ks), community happenings, and financial planning tips.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Disillusionment After Achieving Goals

[08:15 – 12:56]

• Joe opens with the familiar pattern: post-summer push toward big goals, followed by October burnout or feeling unfulfilled even when the goal is reached.
• Dr. McGeough recounts her personal "aha" of achieving tenure—her dream job—only to feel "simultaneously overwhelmed and just empty."

  “I did all of the things...I got my dream job. I should have felt elated. And instead, I just felt flat." — Dr. Danielle McGeough, [10:34]

2. Transformational Power of Playful Planning

[12:56 – 14:47]

• Inspired by a student, Danielle began decorating her planner with stickers and making the process playful.
• This shifted her view:

  “My planner became more about personal revelation...planning could be a way I connect with myself: ‘Do I still care about this? Is this still a priority?’” — Dr. Danielle McGeough, [11:59]

• She challenged herself to say “no” as an experiment, learning her fears of missed opportunities weren’t real.

  “I have some evidence now that some of the scenarios…were just scenarios in my head and not the real lived experience.” — Dr. Danielle McGeough, [13:11]

3. Burnout vs. Demoralization: Understanding the Difference

[15:58 – 17:26]

• Not all workplace malaise is the same. Burnout = overwhelmed & overworked, needing to pause; Demoralization = unable to do the meaningful work due to bureaucracy/structures.

  “Burnout is really when we’re going a hundred miles an hour doing all the things...Demoralization is when the systems aren’t allowing us to do the work that’s meaningful to us.” — Dr. Danielle McGeough, [16:20]

• Solution paths differ; naming your specific “stuck” state matters.

4. Rituals Over Habits: The RISE Ritual Method

[18:03 – 22:14]

• Habits can put us on autopilot, but rituals are “designed to evoke presence and connect us to meaning.”

  “If you feel like you're living on autopilot, creating more things that are designed to work on autopilot are not going to help you.” — Dr. Danielle McGeough, [18:25]

• R.I.S.E. steps:
  • Reflect: Name your current and desired state (“Where are you? Where would you like to be?”)
  • Intentional Planning: When, where, and how will you do the ritual? Doesn’t have to be long—start with 15 minutes.
  • Sensory Activation: Engage senses to evoke the desired emotional state.
  • Embody the Story: Bring your whole self into the ritual, practicing presence and connection to values.
• Example: For a morning transition from groggy to energetic, choose an environment and sensory cues that support that (“Doing your ritual in your bed may not be the best answer.” — Dr. McGeough, [20:51]).

5. The Secret Ingredient: Joy and Playfulness

[22:14 – 24:25]

• Rather than focus on pressure, inject enjoyment into your goals and planning.

  “Maybe one of the biggest secrets of productivity that people aren't talking about is enjoyment...If we want to do something more, we should just find a way to make it delightful.” — Dr. Danielle McGeough, [22:54]

• Playful goals (like “go around the lazy river 93 times with my kids this summer”) lead to better engagement and presence, even in “serious” areas.

6. Planning Tactics: Bridging Digital & Analog, Top 3 To-Dos, and “To-Be” Lists

[25:27 – 27:49]

• Danielle recommends writing out your commitments from your digital calendar into a paper planner for tactile reinforcement and deeper visualization.
• Daily practice: Identify “if there are only three things that I could get done today, what would those three things be that would leave me feeling satisfied, content, happy at the end of the day?” ([26:56])
  • Long-term: Connect these top three to your goals and values.
  • Try “to-be” goals (e.g., “How do I want to be in that contentious meeting?”) not just “to-do” goals.

7. Using AI for Planning (With a Grain of Salt)

[28:13 – 30:17]

• Dr. McGeough uses AI to break down big projects, create milestones, or organize logistics (“what do I need to pack for my retreat?”)
• She prefers doing intentional planning herself, not outsourcing that mindfulness:

  “I want to hand AI the stuff I don't want to think about, not the stuff I need to think about more.” — Joe Saul-Sehy, [28:37]

8. Team or Family Values Alignment

[30:34 – 32:42]

• When collaborating (at work or home), articulate both individual and shared (“we”) values out loud.
• Understanding root values behind behaviors creates patience and finds sources of conflict:

  “Sometimes...you might value two different things like spending time with your family and making money, but those are in conflict with each other sometimes...You have to speak out loud what your values are, and then look for those spaces of conflict.” — Dr. Danielle McGeough, [31:59, 32:42]

9. The Plan Goal Plan Podcast

[33:04 – 34:38]

• Danielle’s show delves into planning and goal-setting for all areas of life—finance, fitness, family, and more. Solo episodes and interviews foster a playful, accessible approach.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Goal-Setting:

  “We reach the future, we get to that point, and then we realize this thing I thought I wanted is not at all what I wanted. And I'm so...still showing up as me, even though I thought it was going to be unicorns and rainbows.” — Joe Saul-Sehy, [08:48]

• On Worthiness and Saying No:

  “Some of my over-commitment was me trying to prove my value to other people...What if I'm just worthy? How does that change what I say yes or no to?” — Dr. Danielle McGeough, [13:11]

• On Ritual Design:

  “Rituals are designed to transition us from one state to another.” — Dr. Danielle McGeough, [18:23]

• On Play at Work:

  “If we want to be taken seriously, we feel like we have to show up serious. But: have a play experiment—show up to a meeting with an element of play and watch the room shift.” — Dr. Danielle McGeough, [24:25]

Key Segment Timestamps

• Intro & Show Banter: [01:21 – 04:12]
• Joe Introduces Burnout & Disillusionment: [08:15 – 09:54]
• Dr. McGeough’s Story & Playful Planning: [09:54 – 14:47]
• Burnout vs. Demoralization: [15:58 – 17:26]
• Rituals & The RISE Method Deep Dive: [18:03 – 22:14]
• Enjoyment as the Secret Productivity Hack: [22:54 – 24:25]
• Planning Tactics & “To-Be” Goals: [25:27 – 27:49]
• Using AI for Logistics, Not Mindfulness: [28:13 – 30:17]
• Aligning Work/Family Values: [30:34 – 32:42]
• Plan Goal Plan Podcast Plug: [33:04 – 34:38]

Practical Takeaways

• Rituals trump endless habits: Use conscious transitions with sensory cues and mindful intent.
• Ask playful, joy-inviting questions: Turn “goal setting” into something delightful and energizing.
• Regularly check that your daily actions align with your deeper values and desired states.
• For teams and families, discuss and declare both individual and shared values—even if there’s conflict, it creates understanding.
• Review your plan in writing; tactile reinforcement supports visualization and prioritization.
• Consolidate multiple old 401ks into a single IRA for reduced complexity and ease of asset allocation. ([46:01 – 51:09])

Listener Questions: 401ks and Best Practices

[43:45 – 51:09]

• Michael from New Mexico asks about what to do with old 401ks when changing jobs.
  • Consolidate into an IRA (often preferred over rolling directly into each new employer’s plan).
  • Avoid cashing out or losing track of accounts; fewer accounts = easier management and decision-making.
  • Don’t avoid contributing just because the current plan isn’t ideal—you’re only shortchanging yourself.
  • Watch for forced distributions of small balances.

Highlights from Community Back Porch

[51:38 – End]

• Updates on S.B. guidebooks and workshops for health savings accounts (HSAs)
• Announcements of upcoming regional meetup groups (Twin Cities, Seattle, Boston, Chicago/Milwaukee)
• Enthusiasm for making financial planning social and fun—“There’s literally no losing position here. You get to go to a bar, eat fried food, and talk about money.” — Doug, [56:34]

Closing Thoughts

Joe, OG, and Danielle wrap the episode with a reminder that everyone—high performers included—passes through cycles of burnout. The antidote isn’t to add more, but to skillfully subtract, make space, and bring intentional, playful rituals to the table for a more meaningful work and life experience.

“If things don’t feel like they’re in alignment, the time to stop and fix it—that’s right now.” — Doug, [59:33]

Want More?

• Dr. Danielle McGeough’s podcast: Plan Goal Plan (available wherever you listen)
• Resource links and show notes: stackingbenjamins.com
• Questions for the team? Submit at stackingbenjamins.com/voicemail

[End of Summary]