Dr. Danielle McGeough's Guide to Avoiding Burnout (SB1727)

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Stacking Benjamins Show

Episode: Dr. Danielle McGeough's Guide to Avoiding Burnout (SB1727)

Date: August 27, 2025
Host: Joe Saul-Sehy (with OG and Doug)
Guest: Dr. Danielle McGeough, Professor & Transformational Strategist; Host of "Plan Goal Plan" podcast

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Episode Overview

In this lively Labor Day episode, Joe and OG welcome Dr. Danielle McGeough to discuss burnout, demoralization, and how to bring more clarity, purpose, and—even more unexpectedly—playfulness into your work and planning routines. The show keeps its trademark friendly, fun tone while diving deep into practical strategies to reset your mindset, build meaningful rituals, and make sure your day-to-day aligns with the life you want to build. Plus: Listener questions (including how to handle multiple 401ks), community happenings, and financial planning tips.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Disillusionment After Achieving Goals

[08:15 – 12:56]

• Joe opens with the familiar pattern: post-summer push toward big goals, followed by October burnout or feeling unfulfilled even when the goal is reached.
• Dr. McGeough recounts her personal "aha" of achieving tenure—her dream job—only to feel "simultaneously overwhelmed and just empty."

  “I did all of the things...I got my dream job. I should have felt elated. And instead, I just felt flat." — Dr. Danielle McGeough, [10:34]

2. Transformational Power of Playful Planning

[12:56 – 14:47]

• Inspired by a student, Danielle began decorating her planner with stickers and making the process playful.
• This shifted her view:

  “My planner became more about personal revelation...planning could be a way I connect with myself: ‘Do I still care about this? Is this still a priority?’” — Dr. Danielle McGeough, [11:59]

• She challenged herself to say “no” as an experiment, learning her fears of missed opportunities weren’t real.

  “I have some evidence now that some of the scenarios…were just scenarios in my head and not the real lived experience.” — Dr. Danielle McGeough, [13:11]

3. Burnout vs. Demoralization: Understanding the Difference

[15:58 – 17:26]

• Not all workplace malaise is the same. Burnout = overwhelmed & overworked, needing to pause; Demoralization = unable to do the meaningful work due to bureaucracy/structures.

  “Burnout is really when we’re going a hundred miles an hour doing all the things...Demoralization is when the systems aren’t allowing us to do the work that’s meaningful to us.” — Dr. Danielle McGeough, [16:20]

• Solution paths differ; naming your specific “stuck” state matters.

4. Rituals Over Habits: The RISE Ritual Method

[18:03 – 22:14]

• Habits can put us on autopilot, but rituals are “designed to evoke presence and connect us to meaning.”

  “If you feel like you're living on autopilot, creating more things that are designed to work on autopilot are not going to help you.” — Dr. Danielle McGeough, [18:25]

• R.I.S.E. steps:
  • Reflect: Name your current and desired state (“Where are you? Where would you like to be?”)
  • Intentional Planning: When, where, and how will you do the ritual? Doesn’t have to be long—start with 15 minutes.
  • Sensory Activation: Engage senses to evoke the desired emotional state.
  • Embody the Story: Bring your whole self into the ritual, practicing presence and connection to values.
• Example: For a morning transition from groggy to energetic, choose an environment and sensory cues that support that (“Doing your ritual in your bed may not be the best answer.” — Dr. McGeough, [20:51]).

5. The Secret Ingredient: Joy and Playfulness

[22:14 – 24:25]

• Rather than focus on pressure, inject enjoyment into your goals and planning.

  “Maybe one of the biggest secrets of productivity that people aren't talking about is enjoyment...If we want to do something more, we should just find a way to make it delightful.” — Dr. Danielle McGeough, [22:54]

• Playful goals (like “go around the lazy river 93 times with my kids this summer”) lead to better engagement and presence, even in “serious” areas.

6. Planning Tactics: Bridging Digital & Analog, Top 3 To-Dos, and “To-Be” Lists

[25:27 – 27:49]

• Danielle recommends writing out your commitments from your digital calendar into a paper planner for tactile reinforcement and deeper visualization.
• Daily practice: Identify “if there are only three things that I could get done today, what would those three things be that would leave me feeling satisfied, content, happy at the end of the day?” ([26:56])
  • Long-term: Connect these top three to your goals and values.
  • Try “to-be” goals (e.g., “How do I want to be in that contentious meeting?”) not just “to-do” goals.

7. Using AI for Planning (With a Grain of Salt)

[28:13 – 30:17]

• Dr. McGeough uses AI to break down big projects, create milestones, or organize logistics (“what do I need to pack for my retreat?”)
• She prefers doing intentional planning herself, not outsourcing that mindfulness:

  “I want to hand AI the stuff I don't want to think about, not the stuff I need to think about more.” — Joe Saul-Sehy, [28:37]

8. Team or Family Values Alignment

[30:34 – 32:42]

• When collaborating (at work or home), articulate both individual and shared (“we”) values out loud.
• Understanding root values behind behaviors creates patience and finds sources of conflict:

  “Sometimes...you might value two different things like spending time with your family and making money, but those are in conflict with each other sometimes...You have to speak out loud what your values are, and then look for those spaces of conflict.” — Dr. Danielle McGeough, [31:59, 32:42]

9. The Plan Goal Plan Podcast

[33:04 – 34:38]

• Danielle’s show delves into planning and goal-setting for all areas of life—finance, fitness, family, and more. Solo episodes and interviews foster a playful, accessible approach.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Goal-Setting:

  “We reach the future, we get to that point, and then we realize this thing I thought I wanted is not at all what I wanted. And I'm so...still showing up as me, even though I thought it was going to be unicorns and rainbows.” — Joe Saul-Sehy, [08:48]

• On Worthiness and Saying No:

  “Some of my over-commitment was me trying to prove my value to other people...What if I'm just worthy? How does that change what I say yes or no to?” — Dr. Danielle McGeough, [13:11]

• On Ritual Design:

  “Rituals are designed to transition us from one state to another.” — Dr. Danielle McGeough, [18:23]

• On Play at Work:

  “If we want to be taken seriously, we feel like we have to show up serious. But: have a play experiment—show up to a meeting with an element of play and watch the room shift.” — Dr. Danielle McGeough, [24:25]

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Key Segment Timestamps

• Intro & Show Banter: [01:21 – 04:12]
• Joe Introduces Burnout & Disillusionment: [08:15 – 09:54]
• Dr. McGeough’s Story & Playful Planning: [09:54 – 14:47]
• Burnout vs. Demoralization: [15:58 – 17:26]
• Rituals & The RISE Method Deep Dive: [18:03 – 22:14]
• Enjoyment as the Secret Productivity Hack: [22:54 – 24:25]
• Planning Tactics & “To-Be” Goals: [25:27 – 27:49]
• Using AI for Logistics, Not Mindfulness: [28:13 – 30:17]
• Aligning Work/Family Values: [30:34 – 32:42]
• Plan Goal Plan Podcast Plug: [33:04 – 34:38]

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Practical Takeaways

• Rituals trump endless habits: Use conscious transitions with sensory cues and mindful intent.
• Ask playful, joy-inviting questions: Turn “goal setting” into something delightful and energizing.
• Regularly check that your daily actions align with your deeper values and desired states.
• For teams and families, discuss and declare both individual and shared values—even if there’s conflict, it creates understanding.
• Review your plan in writing; tactile reinforcement supports visualization and prioritization.
• Consolidate multiple old 401ks into a single IRA for reduced complexity and ease of asset allocation. ([46:01 – 51:09])

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Listener Questions: 401ks and Best Practices

[43:45 – 51:09]

• Michael from New Mexico asks about what to do with old 401ks when changing jobs.
  • Consolidate into an IRA (often preferred over rolling directly into each new employer’s plan).
  • Avoid cashing out or losing track of accounts; fewer accounts = easier management and decision-making.
  • Don’t avoid contributing just because the current plan isn’t ideal—you’re only shortchanging yourself.
  • Watch for forced distributions of small balances.

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Highlights from Community Back Porch

[51:38 – End]

• Updates on S.B. guidebooks and workshops for health savings accounts (HSAs)
• Announcements of upcoming regional meetup groups (Twin Cities, Seattle, Boston, Chicago/Milwaukee)
• Enthusiasm for making financial planning social and fun—“There’s literally no losing position here. You get to go to a bar, eat fried food, and talk about money.” — Doug, [56:34]

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Closing Thoughts

Joe, OG, and Danielle wrap the episode with a reminder that everyone—high performers included—passes through cycles of burnout. The antidote isn’t to add more, but to skillfully subtract, make space, and bring intentional, playful rituals to the table for a more meaningful work and life experience.

“If things don’t feel like they’re in alignment, the time to stop and fix it—that’s right now.” — Doug, [59:33]

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Want More?

• Dr. Danielle McGeough’s podcast: Plan Goal Plan (available wherever you listen)
• Resource links and show notes: stackingbenjamins.com
• Questions for the team? Submit at stackingbenjamins.com/voicemail

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[End of Summary]

Transcript

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Two hours ago, Kyle arrived at the bar.

[OG]

Hey, what's everyone drinking?

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Thirty minutes ago, Kyle got his friends.

[OG]

Another round of drinks.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Cheers.

[OG]

Five minutes ago, Kyle decided to drive home drunk.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

A minute ago, a law enforcement officer pulled up behind Kyle.

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Sir, have you been drinking tonight?

[Joe Saul Sehive]

A chain of events that began two hours ago is about to change Kyle's whole world. Drive sober or get pulled over.

[OG]

Paid for by nhtsa. Race the rudders. Race the sails. Race the sails.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching. Over. Roger.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Wait.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Is that an enterprise sales solution? Reach sales professionals, not professional sailors. With LinkedIn ads, you can target the right people by industry, job title and more. We'll even give you a $100 credit.

[OG]

On your next campaign.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Get started [e-mail] results. Conditions apply.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Hey, everyone, just a reminder to tell Joe's mom she looks like she lost weight. Cause I accidentally parked on the grass again.

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Hey, guys, mics are hot. Quiet on the set.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Live from Joe's mom's basement, it's the Stacking Benjamin Show. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And if things felt a little off with your career or at home where the two just aren't meshing, it's hard to stack Benjamin's like a boss when you can't find the spark. Today we're diving into how to reset with clarity and purpose with professor and transformational strategist Dr. Danielle McHugh. But that's not all. We'll also answer a question from Matt who's wondering what to do with old f plans. Do you leave them where they are or do something different? Of course. Halfway through this power hour, I'll swoop in with some incredible money themed trivia that I know you'll get right. And now, two guys who think Labor Day is about avoiding labor, especially when it comes to budgeting. It's Joe and O J J, J, J, J.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

He budgeting. Maybe we spend some time on, but definitely leaving the investments alone. Hands off. It's a great weekend to do that. Hey, everybody, happy, happy Labor Day week. I know that. Oh, gee, you are already cruising into Labor Day like a boss. Like you're, you're. Your brain already went on vacation. Maybe right after we recorded on Monday.

[OG]

I mean, when is my brain not on vacation? I could do this show with half my brain tied behind my back.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Wrong answer. You have clients listening to this show.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

It was funny. I got a nice note from stacker Matt. We were talking about work, life, balance, and you were joking about that OG and he's like, well, oh, gee. Works for himself, so he's able to, you know, phone it in sometimes. And I wrote, I work for the man, quote unquote, for a number of years. There were weeks. You can't tell me that that's an entrepreneurial thing when you're show up at the office and go, yeah, I'm gonna smile. And not everybody has that day.

[OG]

I'm thankful that I've got a great team, that they went, cool, we got you, boss, and handled it for the day that I was a little in a funk, you know? It's okay. It happens.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Dr. Daniel McGee is here today just for that reason. So if you're feeling like you're a high performer normally, and whatever it is that you do that you. Things just aren't. Aren't working, maybe feeling a little burnout here at the end of summer. This is what she does. She helps people with burnout. Feeling demoralized or just stuck. So how do you create some personal rituals that are gonna help you get on track? If you've ever heard Unstuck. Yeah. Did I say stuck? Get stuck.

[OG]

No, I was saying, yeah, get unstuck.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Oh, yeah. I. I thought maybe, like I have in the past, I just missed it. If you've ever felt like you're not stuck enough.

[OG]

Speaking of, did you see that there was a YouTube video that made the rounds? It was a judge reading the verdict, and it's like, okay, has the jury reached a verdict? Yes, you, Honor, we have. He goes, okay. So he gets it, and he looks at it and he goes, okay. We, the jury, find the defendant guilty as to all six counts. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he, you know, and. And there's kind of a light murmur in the crowd. He goes, and we'll go ahead, bailiff, you can release the defendant. And. And the prosecutor goes, whoa, wait, what? And he goes, what? Oh, wait, didn't I read? Not guilty. Sorry. Not guilty on all six counts. Imagine the emotion if you're that woman, emotion of that. Of that moment of like, oh, my God, I thought I won. Oh, no, I didn't win. Oh, crap, I'm going to jail. Wait, I can leave. Wait, now I can't leave.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Yeah. What if you're the defendant, though, you're emotional.

[OG]

I mean, like, you're the defendant. You're going, oh, we slayed that. I'm out of here. And then it's guilty in all six counts.

[Michael (Caller)]

Oh, my gosh.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Crap.

[OG]

What's good? Wait, what? The prosecutor's like, what do you mean you're gonna release him. He goes, oh wait, sorry. Did I read? Didn't I read? Not guilty. Let me do that again, guys. Not guilty.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Well, as you guys know as much as anybody, I can mix that stuff up in a hurry.

[OG]

That's on me, Coach. That's my bad.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

You guys are all wound too tight.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Some of my favorite episodes, the 15 years that we've done this show have been where we create some of these rituals that help us move on. I love the idea that we got early last year about cowboy fencing off time. I still use that analogy all the time. Or the argument that, you know, people are like penguins. That that was a great one when Hal Elrob was on, you know, with his morning rituals. Dr. Daniel MCU is going to be bringing those today. What a great way to begin rolling into a holiday weekend. So get ready to get unstuck stackers with Dr. Daniel McGu. We've got a couple of sponsors who make sure we can keep on keeping on. You're not going to pay a dime for any of this goodness. So we're going to hear from them. And then coming down to mom's basement, Dr. Danielle McEw. Hey folks, let me tell you that drinking and driving is a decision that will change your whole world. Things will never be the same once you get a DUI because legal fees and time in court are just the beginning. Getting into a crash is another way your world could be irreversibly changed. After drinking and driving, your vehicle may not be the only thing that gets damaged in that crash. You could face a life altering injury or even death. But you're not the only one who could face those consequences. Your decision to drink and drive could permanently change someone else's world, whether you injure them or leave their loved ones grieving. The next time you're out drinking, call a ride, share a taxi, a sober friend or a designated sober driver. Always plan for a safe ride home. The only decision that will change your world for the better is the decision to call for a sober ride. It's never worth it to drive drunk. Don't risk it. Drive sober or get pulled over. Paid for by nhtsa the Jack Welch.

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Management Institute at Strayer University helps you go from I know the way to I've arrived with our top 10 ranked online MBA. Gain skills you can learn today and apply tomorrow. Get ready to go from make it happen to made it happen and keep striving. Visit Strayer Edu Jack Welchmba to learn more. Strayer University is certified to operate in Virginia by Shev in as many campuses, including at 2121 15th Street north in Arlington, Virginia.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

And I'm super happy. She's coming down the stairs to the basement. Dr. Daniel Magoo with us. How are you?

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

I'm doing awesome. How are you?

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Well, I'm better now that you're here. I am so much better. Well, and let me tell you why, as you know, Labor Day weekend is this weekend, and a lot of people, you know, this is kind of the traditional. Danielle traditional end of summer, and playtime's over, and we decide starting next week, I've got to go. I got to be like a rocket ship. I got to be huge. I've been through this before. You've probably been through this before. You get to, like, mid October, and then there's this disillusionment, Right? And actually, you know, for our stackers, Danielle, there's disillusionment, I think, in two different areas. Number one is you're running a hundred miles an hour toward a goal, and then you realize the things you've been doing every day don't match the meaning you're looking for. And, by the way, for people. For people who are just listening to us. She's nodding her head. Yep, yep, I know that. Which is exactly why I wanted to talk to you. But even on a bigger level, you know, this is what we see all the time when we talk to people about their money, is that we set these big, lofty dreams for way in the future. We reach the future, we get to that point, and then we realize this thing I thought I wanted is not at all what I wanted. And I'm so. I'm still showing up as me, even though I thought it was going to be unicorns and rainbows. And I thought a, this is your life's work talking about this. But also, you went through this yourself earlier on in your career. Do you mind telling your story to everybody about your big disillusionment? Aha.

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Sure. I think I should preface this by letting you all know that I did not grow up the smart kid. I was the weird kid growing up. All of my report cards described me as unique. And so when I was 20 and I declared to all of my friends and family that I was getting a PhD. They were sort of like, oh, really? Really?

[Joe Saul Sehive]

It's so funny you say that. I was an English major in college. I had this high school English teacher who always thought I was bad at English. Literally thought that. And I remember coming back one time as a college freshman, she's like, so what did you major in? And I said, English. And she. Same thing, Danielle. She goes, oh, neat. How weird.

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Neat. That's always, like, the best reaction, right?

[OG]

You know?

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

So that's what's so wild is that. Then I did do all of the things. I got the master's degree, I moved across the country. I got the pH, I did the slog. That is the academic job market. And I got my dream job. And I should have been like, hey, y', all, I just earned tenure. Look at me doing this thing that you thought I couldn't do. I should have felt, you know, elated. And instead, I just felt flat. I felt simultaneously overwhelmed and just empty. And I had no idea what was next. No idea what was next. I had a student give a presentation on decorative planning, and she was talking about how she was dealing with anxiety. She went to her therapist. Her therapist is like, well, you're avoiding doing anything with your calendar or your to do list. Why don't you doodle and decorate it and make it really delightful and see how that goes? And when she said that, I was like, oh, maybe I should try that. I have no artistic skills, despite my dad being my art teacher growing up. Sorry, Dad. I was like, stickers, Stickers. I can do that. I can be artsy fartsy with stickers. And so I started decorating my planner with stickers, making it wildly fun and playful. And I started to notice things changing in my life.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Like what?

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Well, one, I think I stopped thinking about time management. As time management, my planner became more about personal revelation. What? You were just kind of describing that moment of, oh, maybe my goals should have changed, but I just kept doing it, and all of a sudden I find myself achieving it, and I'm not connected anymore. I started realizing that planning could be a way that I actually connect with myself, that I can check in and go, hey, do I still care about this? Is this still a priority? Is the goal I set even happening in everyday life? Because I do think that sometimes what happens is we. We set these goals, but then it doesn't show up anywhere in our daily practices. So I started seeing this shift of just, like, connecting with myself, realizing what I. What was giving me energy and what was taking my energy, what I wanted more of. I started connecting with, even just, like, what do I want? Where are my desires lie?

[Joe Saul Sehive]

I love this idea of instead of having this planning be like an end all, be all. It's almost like, danielle, you're a human science experiment, and, you know, it's like playing in the mud when you're a kid, you're like, ooh, let's just get messy and see what the hell happens.

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Absolutely. You know, I even played around with the idea of saying no. I was really scared of saying no, that if I said no, that people wouldn't think of me as a team player or that they'd quit asking me and then opportunities wouldn't come my way. And, you know, all of those things that run through your mind. I started to realize that some of my over commitment, though, was this cycle of me trying to prove my value to other people. And I thought, well, what if I'm just worthy and how does that change what I need to say yes to and what I can say no to? And I was like, let's do an experiment. Let's just start saying no to things and seeing what happens. And I would say no, and then I would just wait. And it was wild because often not much happened. Not much happened. It was this wonderful way where I was like, okay, so I have some evidence now that some of the scenarios that were playing out in my head about what would happen if I said no were just scenarios in my head and not the real lived experience.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

So before you were hyperviligent about time management, and now you're hyper vigilant about listening and looking for cues. And all of a sudden, I bet when you started saying no, all of a sudden the time management just.

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Oh, yeah. I mean, there's this wonderful book that's called Subtraction, and it's all about all these ways that we as humans really want to solve our problems with addition. When oftentimes there is a solution that involves subtraction that's just as elegant, if not more.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

It's so hard for us, though, because I feel like when I try to subtract, you know, you worry about. Well, and you just said this. You worry about all the doors that'll close that if I say, yeah, I can't do that anymore. And yet when I subtract, I find that doors in the areas that I leave open open bigger, if that's a thing.

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Absolutely. But there is that act of trust to recognize that by saying no, I'm actually creating space for what matters, rather than giving something up or walking away for something. I like to imagine that it's actually opening up space for the things that matter the most. But you have to know what those things are.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Can I say something? As an aside that I thought was really cool about your disillusionment story was the lesson coming out of left field which is your student. I just don't know many professors, Danielle, that would have learned something from their student that was as transformative as that was. Like, if a kid says that, I'm like, yeah, whatever. Okay, my student said it. That's fine. You've got a lot to learn. I know everything, you know. But often those big lessons in our life come out of the blue like that.

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Oh, my students teach me so much. I think that one of my most recent lessons from a student was in May. They were giving presentations, and my student stood up and her first sentence was, burnout and demoralization are not the same thing. And I was like, whoa, can we back that up?

[Joe Saul Sehive]

I just hear the brakes going, yes.

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Absolutely strong, you know, sound. And from there I actually went and I started looking up journal articles because I'm a nerd like that. And I realized, oh, my gosh, they aren't the same thing. There's some overlap. But that burnout is really when we're going 100 miles an hour doing all of the things, putting in all the hours, and we need to hit the break. Right. We need to pause. But demoralization is actually when we kind of know what we need to do, but the structures and the systems aren't really allowing us to do the work that's the meaningful work. It's when you get stuck and bogged down in all the busy crap work instead of the meaningful stuff. So that was a really important distinction for me because I think that so many people are describing themselves and come to me and say, you know, I'm burnt out. But for some people, it's not that you're burnout, it's that you're demoralized.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Deeper. Much deeper.

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Yes. And you need different solutions for each of those things.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Well, when you say that the systems and the processes, that we don't have those in place. So how do we start to reset that?

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Yeah, I think that one. If you can name your stock, if you can name whether you're burnout or you're demoralized, you're going to know, do I need systems of saying no? Do I need systems of rest? Or do I need systems that really help me connect with the things that matter the most? And for me, that has always been through the process of creating some rituals. So for me, I like to think, what is the state that I'm in? And then what's the desired state that I'd like to be in? And I use ritual to move me from one state to the next.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Can we talk about that you have a ritual you call the rise ritual method. Can we dive into that?

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Yeah. So what I have found is that other overachievers like me, when we are facing a spot where we feel flat, our impulse is to go, well, let's stack some more habits. Like, what are some other good habits that I can stack?

[Joe Saul Sehive]

If I get 50 more good habits.

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Then I'll feel great about life. Right. And the problem with that is that habits are designed to eventually become unconscious. So if you feel like you're living on autopilot, Creating more things that are designed to work on autopilot are not going to help you. Whereas rituals are actually designed to transition us from one state to another. They're designed to evoke presence and connect us to meaning. And so the rise ritual method helps you do that in four steps. You reflect, you do some intentional planning, you activate your senses, and you embody the story.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Okay, can we go through those? So the first thing we do is we reflect. Am I reflecting on, like, what I did yesterday that was great and what didn't work? Or am I reflecting bigger than that? Like, what am I reflecting on?

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

So right now we're just going to reflect on what you want the ritual to do for you. Where is a space that you need some transition in your day that you're going to create your ritual and go, what is the state that I'm in and what's the state that I want to move to? So let's say you want to do a morning ritual. That's a really common one.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Sure.

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Maybe you wake up and you're all groggy and grumpy and you want to be perky and energetic. So if that's kind of what you're moving to, the reflection is. Can we just name the state that you're in and the state that you want to move to?

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Gotcha. Well, and that's spoken like a professor, too, Because I know from my time taking classes in education, like, showing people, showing your brain the top of that mountain ahead of time helps your subconscious mind Then begin working on it throughout the day.

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Absolutely. And to just intentionally name this is how I want to move through my day is so wildly helpful. And then the intentional planning part is just thinking, well, when am I going to do the ritual, where am I going to do it, and how am I going to do it? And it doesn't have to be very long. I tell people 15 minutes is a great place to start. But you could have a five minute version of your ritual and you could have an hour long cozy version of your ritual. But take a little bit of time to intentionally plan and then think. If it's possible, do your ritual in a place that evokes that desired state that you named.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

So if it's that morning routine and you've got a specific spot in your house or out behind your house or wherever it might be, go to that spot.

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Absolutely. So for example, if you want to get in a state where you're energized, doing your ritual in your bed may not be the best answer.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Teaching your brain the wrong thing.

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Absolutely. You know, I always joke that I wake up and I have busy brain and I kind of just need to chill out right from the get go. And so my ritual in the morning is incredibly cozy. But my husband, he wakes up and he is in a fog and he is just, he's not there yet, you know. So for me, I might like to have things like. And this is part of the sensory activation. I might like to have things like a cozy blanket. But if my husband had that, if he got it, yeah, he'd be gone. And so part of it is how do you design the ritual? Always thinking intentionally about the state that you want to move yourself to.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

That's funny. There was a ritual that I have tried off and on over the years. I think like a lot of people of meditation and to your point, like your husband, I couldn't meditate without falling asleep. Like I would just, I'd end up with nap time. And my coach kept telling me, she's like, that isn't, that's not what we're going for.

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

But it feels so nice.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

It does feel nice.

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Well, and if you, if you've had that busy brain and you finally turn it off, it is just easy to soak into it.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Oh, 100%. Yeah, absolutely. I was going to ask you another follow up question about going back to your student and what they said. Not only you taking that advice and it being so transformative and it's funny. You just referenced another student said to you and may something that you learned a ton of stuff from. But going back to this idea of playfulness, I feel like when people talk about planning, they talk about their career, they talk about goal setting. Playfulness is nowhere to be found because it's all too serious. And yet it seems like every answer, Danielle, that you've given me so far has kind of revolved around this idea of making it more playful.

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Absolutely. I think that maybe one of the biggest secrets of productivity that people aren't talking about is enjoyment that, you know, if we want to do something more, we should just find a way to make it delightful. And for me, in that moment, you know, when I was really in the muck of it, when my student talked about decorating our planner, what that opened for me is I've been really resistant to any sort of goal setting because I didn't want to add pressure to my already pressure filled life. But it kind of like lit up this light bulb where it was like, well, what if my goal is to go around the lazy river 93 times with my kids this summer? What if the goal is one that just invites play into my life? And I knew that I needed that because I'm an intense person and I can be intensely serious and I can be intensely playful. And so I knew that I needed to invite more play into my life. And in doing that, you know, I learned so much about myself and my posture towards the things that I was very serious about shifted too, I have.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

To imagine, for the better. Like, I would think people around you would even see that. And, and I think we're afraid of play because we think that play is going to make us seem in some way unprofessional. And I haven't found that to be the case. I don't know if you have.

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Oh, I mean, I think that that is a huge fear, right? That if we want to be taken seriously, we need to show up seriously. I would encourage people just like I played with the idea of no experiments to have a play experiment. You know, show up to the office and think about how can I bring an element of play to this meeting that's bound to be contentious and watch the attitudes and postures and connections in the room shift.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

You have talked elsewhere about having anxiety and in the, like late hours of the night, getting up and decorating your. Decorating your planner and looking at it. But I have to think about that planning for a second. How do you go through your planner then and plan out your week? Or if your week's already planned, do you go through your planner then and visualize the meetings, think about where the rituals go? Like, tell me about setting up that planning.

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Oh, yeah. One of the first things that I do is I just look at, well, what have I already committed to? And I do a hybrid planning system. So I do have a digital planner. I use Google. I pull up my Google calendar and I look at everything that's on my calendar and I actually rewrite it back down into my planner. And I'm usually looking at about one week at a time.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Wait a minute. So tactile. Like, you literally write it back out into your planner?

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Yes, and I need to do that for a couple of reasons. One, I don't know. Since having kids, my brain just doesn't hold on to things like it used to.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Mine too.

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

And so there's something about writing it down that just helps solidify it for me. But also, in the process of doing that, I do think that I get a sense of what are the rhythms of my day going to feel like. I start doing automatically some of that visualization that you were just mentioning, and then it helps me think about, okay, here's my list of to dos that I have. Where are they going to fall between these different appointments that I have and how I'm going to map that onto my day. I kind of keep on one side all of my appointments and then my to do list on the other side. And I do have a daily practice then of asking myself, okay, here's what's going on this day. Let's review it quick. Well, if there are only three things that I could get done today, what would those three things be that would leave me feeling satisfied, content, happy at the end of the day?

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Is that where I start from when I'm picking the three things is satisfying and content?

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

I think that that's a really easy place to start from. What I would ultimately recommend is that once you've set some goals, that all your daily top three are actually connected to your goals.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Moving the needle.

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

And if you've set goals from a space that are really connected to your values and you've had processes to kind of keep checking in with those goals, setting those daily top three alongside the goals is really, really helpful to keep moving that needle. But, you know, sometimes, too, I like to set what I call to be goals for my day instead of to do goals. So one of my daily top three might be, you know, how do I want to be in that contentious meeting that I have to walk into rather than something I have to do and check off.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

That's funny. I had that situation with a friend of mine this morning. I didn't show up and be the person I wanted to be. And afterwards I'm like, oh, you know, he has some big things going on in his life. I talk too much. And I got done with the run. I'm like, I should have asked John more about what the hell was going on with his stuff. So I love the idea of walking through and thinking, who do I want to be do you use AI now for any of your planning stuff?

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

I do sometimes, especially if I'm struggling with how to break down a task, I'll put into AI what it is that I'm working through. I have attempted to use a few of the apps that will automatically schedule things for you, you know, like, will map out your days for you and you can prioritize and stuff. But I. I don't know. It didn't stick for me.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Well, you know what's funny is that I think you and I are like, that way. It doesn't stick for me either. And I've also tried it that way, but the intentionality I get from. And that's why I latched on to you writing out your day, because I think, like, you do, that is so important. Just the mindfulness of taking 10 minutes to rewrite your day and think about how is this going to work? Like, what's going to happen. Spending just a little bit of time on it with a cup of coffee or whatever could be huge. Where if I hand it to. I want to hand AI the stuff that I don't want to think about, not the stuff I think that I need to think about more. But what do you. How do you prompt AI for some of your planning stuff?

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

So when I'm doing that, usually, like I said, it might be like a big project or it might be a really big goal, and I might say, hey, here's the timeline that I want to do this in. I'm trying to figure out all the different steps to get this done. Can you help me map that out?

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Oh, can you like, milestones?

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Yes, I might have it map out milestones. Or could you break this down into weeks for me and then let me know what are all the different resources that I need to be able to do this. I just, like, held a really big retreat. It was so helpful for me to say, hey, could you plan on the day of what are all of the things that I need to pack in my car? And what are all of the things that I need to have ready? And it was so nice for it to just make me that checklist. And so, yeah, there are things like that that I absolutely use it for.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

That's 100% fantastic. Because how often have you gotten down the road and went, oh, absolutely, absolutely. And especially with kids on the brain too, right?

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Oh, my God, yes. And I mean, that's actually, I love to use it for meal planning. You know, hey, this is what I have in my fridge. Here are some of the meals that we're trying to eat, to eat healthy. Could you put these things together and, like, tell me what I need to eat and give me a shopping list for it?

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Now, you were talking earlier about going through your values and do my tasks that I'm working on. Line up with my values. I know a piece of the work that you do, Danielle, is teamwork. And let's say that you and I are on a team, and my values and tasks look good, and your values and tasks look good, but they don't really align. If I'm working with somebody else on a project, what's the first step to getting that alignment that we're looking for?

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Ooh. You know, I think that so often when we have conflict, whether it's actually, you know, it can happen in families too, right? We might have financial goals, but what we think is worth, invaluable to spend our money on might be different. So one of the first things to do is to make sure that you're carving out a little bit of space for your team to actually get to state, what are our values? You know, what are our individual values? And then what are our we values? So what are my ME values? What are our we values? Then from there, I think that sometimes we might even have a lot more patience with each other, and if we don't even change anything. But now I understand why you're doing the things that you do, because you've expressed what your values are to me, and now at least there's. There's some reasons. There's a why between your behavior for me, where before I might have just been like, what is he doing?

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Yeah, right. Why are you wasting time on this?

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Get it together, buddy. You know, and so it's so nice when you just express that. But then what you might do, too, in those conversations and go, are there ways that there are conflicts between the things that we are valuing? And I see this even in individuals that you might value two different things like spending time with your family and making money, but those things are in conflict with each other sometimes. And so how are you going to decide which one actually gets prioritized? And so sometimes that happens within one person, and sometimes that happens within a team. But I think that one we just have to say, speak out loud what our values are, and then we need to kind of look for those spaces of conflict.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

If only. If only there were a podcast that dealt with these issues, like, on a weekly basis. I sometimes dream, and maybe we call it plan, goal, plan. I mean, call me crazy. Does such a podcast exist?

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

You know, I think it does. Wait.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

I heard a genius came up with that name.

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Ooh, what genius came up with that? I would love it for people to listen to a podcast by the name of Plan. Go Plan.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Yeah. So tell us what happens every week, because I've been listening to it recently. It is so informative and playful and fun. But tell everybody about the show.

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Yeah, so really, the show just came from me hosting, planning parties with my friends and then wanting to have a place to share and to talk about these things and other people that geeked out about those sorts of things. And so once a week, for sure, you'll have a solo episode from me. I'm just moving into two episodes a week this month, and so then I get to talk to other people about all different sorts of goal setting that we might do. So sometimes that's financial goals, and sometimes that's fitness goals, and other times that might be family goals and making memories. So I'd love it if you listened.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Are you enjoying the interviews?

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Oh, my gosh, it's my favorite. I really, really love getting to meet and talk with people. It's just the jam.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

It is. It's so fun. But I also, I love your solo episodes, and I find as a podcaster, it's so hard to do solo episodes. And you're so good at it.

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Oh, it was a struggle, especially because teaching is what I'm really used to, and I teach in a very, like, workshop, playful, getting your body move around kind of way. So it's mostly back and forth between my students and I. And so all of a sudden, doing a solo podcast, I was like, ooh, I gotta work on my lecturing skills.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

In a room by yourself with a microphone? Well, you'd never know because you definitely have a talent for it. It is called Plan Goal Plan, available wherever finer podcasts like Stacking Benjamin's are. So hit pause right now and subscribe. Danielle, thank you so much for mentoring our stackers today. I know that as we get into busy season, guys, we're going to get there. You're going to get six weeks in, and the burnout's going to start hitting. And I think putting some rituals and intentionality in your life can help you keep going all fall along and into next year. So, Danielle, thank you so much.

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Oh, thank you so much. This is a blast.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Hey there, stackers. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug and Ashley. As Americans nationwide hit the road for some Labor Day play, let's talk about play because today is the anniversary of the first play ever performed in America. At least that's on record anyway. I mean, it was way back in 1665 when you were like 12. Joe, you'd think that the premier play in the USA or maybe pre USA at the time. If you want to split hairs. It would have been great, right? It had to have been great.

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Great.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

But this play was actually so controversial that the creators were taken to court because one critic called the act profane. Luckily. And tell me this isn't the American way, the judge let them off because while he agreed it may have been profane, it was actually kind of entertaining. That's the same thing we say about Joe's mom after she's had two fuckatonics. Profane but hilarious. Here's a money question. Some Americans will be hitting Broadway for a play this weekend. What's the highest grossing play ever on this iconic street? Here's a hint. You know, this play may have probably seen the movie and it's a classic tale about a young cub who's coming of age. Wait, is it about me? I'll be back right after I figure out what hakuna matata means. Such a wonderful phrase.

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Hablas espanol spries to dioech.

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[Joe Saul Sehive]

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[OG]

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[Joe Saul Sehive]

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[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Hey there, stackers. I'm a Kuna Matata lover and guy who's always up for a good play. Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. Earlier I asked what the highest grossing play on Broadway is and told you that you know it. Surely you've heard of the company that created it. Anyways, Disney and the play based on the movie of the same name was of course, the Lion King. And now let's get back to two guys who are leading this safari through your money jungle. Joe and OG when you went to.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Broadway, did you see the Lion King? You saw a Disney play, I think. OG on.

[OG]

We saw Aladdin.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Saw Aladdin. Yeah. I bet that's got to be up there too. Doug.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Everything they do is up there.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Yeah, that's true.

[OG]

Aladdin with the original genie. And then when they came to Dallas. When Aladdin came to Dallas, of course, you know, the traveling show is not the broad people generally, but the guy who was the genie in the Broadway Aladdin was from the DFW area. The night we went, he did his role as Genie because he was in his hometown and he had a free Saturday, so he came down to Dallas, did it in Dallas. So we got the original air quotes, the original genie. One might argue Robin Williams is the original genie, but okay, Right.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

But the original Broadway genie I heard was just brilliant.

[OG]

Oh, it's a great. I mean, it's so impressive to watch. I just love watching people who are the best in the world at what they do do the thing that they're the best at. I was watching an interview with Denzel Washington and they're like, oh, you know, you're a movie star. He goes, I'm not a movie star. I'm a Broadway actor who happens to do movies.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Right.

[OG]

So his whole thing, he started on Broadway and he likes, you know, he'll go back and do Broadway stuff, watching how they perform or watching how they, how they can carry a tune or something. You're like, Lee, that's good.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Yeah. I saw a clip of him, Denzel Washington on the Graham Norton show, which is a late night show in England. Probably the second best interviewer that I know. He did a. Joe, you were supposed to get all, like, a flutter when I said that.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

That is so nice. Thank you very much.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Just. I'm just throwing out the compliments.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

I was like, wait, Howard Stern?

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

I got a blank stare from you, Mark Marin. But. But he mentioned to Denzel, like, you did some. Some Shakespeare in your time. Right. And prior to seeing this clip, I actually did not know that Denzel Washington was a Broadway actor. He just starts reeling off, like, whole chunks of dialogue from Shakespeare, and he hadn't done it in 20 years. But that's how into stage acting Denzel was.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

That's.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

It's pretty incredible.

[OG]

Still is. Yeah.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

I love watching, as you mentioned, OG high performers work. And big thanks to Dr. Daniel McGee for coming today. But, you know, this idea that people that are great don't get burnout is not true. I mean, everybody still goes through.

[OG]

Look at that segue, the cycle.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Yeah, absolutely.

[OG]

Then that's the thing. There's times to be on stage, there's times to practice, and then there's downtime. And the downtime, in my view, needs to come first. I just challenge everybody. As you're looking at your calendar for the rest of the year and you've got vacation time left, or you're planning your 2026, you're starting to look at the 2026 stuff. Start with your free time, and then build your work around your free time. And I get it. Everybody's got different rules on what that free time and vacation looks like. I remember my parents, when they worked at gm, it was like, yeah, we have free time. It's two weeks in July and two weeks in December. Those are our free times. We don't have other free times because that's when the company mandates it. Okay, I got it. Sometimes you don't have that flexibility, but if you do, start with free time and then build your work around it and see how that sits with you for the next 12 months. And I bet you have a little bit more energy.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

And I think it also means that during the weekend, when you're away, be away, be present in the everyday activity, not have your brain half at the office.

[OG]

If you can, try your best.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

I just. There was a video I saw recently with this woman interviewing a guy on his deathbed. And. And he's like, you know, the thing that I regret was that I didn't spend more time on the weekend thinking about my KPIs, which is, you know, all the things I got to get done. I wish I would have done more of that. Made a, made a great point. Speaking of great points, we have a caller who called in with a great point and a question. This is the segment we call Better Call Saul. See? Hi. And OG on today's show, we actually got a great comment from Stacker Michael, who decided also to call in with a question. But we did a trivia question, if you remember, Doug and I got lots of people who chimed in on this one. And this was. Remember when we talked about the top beer on college campuses and oh yeah, the study showed that it was Corona and we had so many stackers tell us. Yeah, I don't think so.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Right. Yeah, we knew that was going to be controversial going in though, as we.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Were writing it, as we were like, yeah, we don't, we don't believe this. We even said it there. And we asked people. In fact, Stacker John told us that he was taking his son last weekend, driving him back to state college. And he said while he was in state college he was going to do some market research with some of the college kids while he was there. So, John, I hope that went well and I hope you weren't driving after that experience. But anyway, Michael wanted to pitch in and tell us about beers that he drank. And then he also has a question.

[Michael (Caller)]

Hey guys, it's Michael from New Mexico. I called in a little while ago looking for some guidance on getting a new job, which I actually found one that was a fairly significant raise shortly after I asked that question. But on your latest episode, I believe 1714, you put in out a call for people what people drank when they were in college, if they'd graduated in the past five years or so. I graduated back in 2021, and at least when I was in college, the beer of choice in my household was Corona. But there were two kinds of beers people drank. It was either Corona or Modelo. So there's kind of your answer, at least for what we drank. I figured I'd also ask a question while I was at it. So I've gotten a few 401ks since I've graduated college and kind of been trying to find a job that works for me and a field that works for me. One thing I've noticed with all of them is none of them are really good. Some of them have high fees in specific funds that would make up my standard stock bond portfolio. And so I've just kind of been sitting on them while I kind of figure out what I'm going to do with Them I've been still putting money into them, max them out every year. But it's mostly it's what do I do with the old 401ks from previous jobs? Do I roll those over into like a self 401k or is it just keep them there where they are, roll them into my newest one and just roll that one over every time I leave a job until I find a 401k I'm happy with. I figured you guys might be able to give me some insight.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Thanks Michael, for the question. And Michael was the guy who drank Coronas in college.

[OG]

Who knew?

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Do you think that has to do with where he went to college? Because you know, I think if you're in the down on the southern end of the United States where it gets a little hotter like some of those light beers, like, you know, because I think a Corona or Modelo, the two that he's drinking, I'm thinking warm weather.

[OG]

Yeah. Maybe it has to do with the, the heat. I, I don't know. Ultra, Michelob.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Ultra.

[OG]

Just keep it simple for two beer.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

I still think I didn't have the budget for Corona. Yeah. I was looking at quantity, not quality.

[OG]

Yeah. Natty ice, right?

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Ice beer. Remember that? Remember? Then that was it.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Why did I get a hangover just from you saying natty ice?

[OG]

Don't you remember the can like blue and it had the little thing on the big ice. Gross.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Yeah.

[Dr. Danielle McHugh]

Bush.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Michael, let's talk about his 401ks and people, this tends to happen as we have different jobs. OG over the years we start to get this trail of 401ks behind us.

[OG]

Yeah. So two things he talked about that I want to think about here. Look, I get it. If the 401k you're investing in is less than ideal in terms of its fund choices, in terms of its cost structure. Be the voice of change in your organization and try to fix that. But don't martyr yourself and say, well I'm not going to invest in this because it's too expensive and, and the fund fees are too high, they're ripping me off. Because you're only stealing from yourself. You're not contributing to your 401k getting tax deferral and a company match and you know, all that building that muscle of saving and investing, even if it's not ideal, make sure it's invested so. Or make sure you're participating in it. As far as the old retirement plans go, I don't like the idea of keeping them in the old places because believe it or not. People lose track of where those places are. You move, you change your logins, you, you know your email address and your password and just stuff falls through the cracks. And I know you. I know when you're young, you go, I'll never forget about my first job at insert company here and the 3,000 that's in my 401k plan. I promise. But you will. It's just, you know, if you move a couple times, all of a sudden the mail gets undeliverable. And now they've got very rigid processes in these states for unclaimed property. So even if you just say, I'm going to not pay attention to it for a long period of time and I'm going to keep track of it, they could deem it to be unclaimed. So it's just far better to consolidate it all in one place really. Your two choices here of one place are either with your existing company, so you just kind of keep on moving it into, you know, rolling it into the new one every time you get a new job or get a third party custodian like a Fidelity Schwab or something like that. And that's your repository for all your old stuff. And I think the vast majority of people choose that option versus putting it in the new plan, mostly because you're just free to invest in whatever you want. So you never run into the scenario that he's talking about here where I'm not really enthralled with the options here or the cost structure or the flexibility or whatever the case may be. If you put your money in an IRA at Schwab or Fidelity, you can virtually invest it in anything you want. So that's the standard typical go to advice is consolidated in one place and then you've got one place to keep track of all of your old money for the rest of your life. There are some exceptions, obviously, but you want to be on top of that. The other thing I would add is if you're at a company for a short period of time, and short meaning, you know, maybe you only have a couple of months worth of contributions or, you know, a couple of dollars worth of contributions, a lot of company plans have a threshold in which they will force liquidate your money. And sometimes that number's around 5%.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Just send you a check. Yeah.

[OG]

And so again, if you don't do anything, if you do the do nothing plan and you worked at this company for a year and you put in your 5% and it's worth five grand, they may say this number is too small for us to keep track of forever. So we're going to give you 30 days to you do something or we're mailing you a check. I think we talked about this a couple of weeks ago. It's like people look at it and go, eh, it's five grand. I could really use that anyway to pay off my insert thing here. Who cares that I get a little bit of a penalty? It's only 500 bucks. Who cares that I pay a little bit of taxes? It's only 1250 bucks. And by the way, I could use the money now, but you're just robbing from yourself in the future. So if you have, this is another good reason for when you leave your company. You wait 30 days to make sure the final paperwork's in, the final contributions are in, and then poof, off you go. Roll that money over to a third party custodian and get it as part of your asset allocation and move. So don't take it in cash.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

I love the idea too, OG just behaviorally that it's so much easier to navigate when you have fewer screens to look at. Just having things in a spot where you can make a few meaningful decisions instead of 50 small decisions, I think just behaviorally is great. When I began talking maybe a year ago about getting closer to the efficient frontier than vtsax, when you have more than a hundred thousand dollars that can pay big dividends. And I mentioned that diversifying your money along the efficient frontier takes about 15 minutes. The planning to get to that point actually is a lot longer than 15 minutes, but doing it is maybe 15 minutes. And so spending 15 minutes once or twice a year to rebalance, stay diversified is easy. And some of the pushback I got OG was from people that said, but I've got money in like 12 different accounts just makes it so much more difficult. I think that's another reason just to have just a few different accounts so that it can be 15 minutes. Because I think that if you're keeping 45 different old 401ks and I'm being a little bit ridiculous there, that it just, it creates unnecessary complexity. Right?

[OG]

Yeah, it does. Keep it simple.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Easier equals often better. Thanks Michael, for the question. If you've got a question for us and you want to hear your voice on the Stacky Benjamin show. Stacky Benjamin. And I know that's exactly what you wake up thinking every morning. You know what I want? I want my voice in the Stacky Benjamin Show. Stacky benjamin.com voicemail gets you on the microphone. All right. We always end our episodes with a community segment we like to call the Back Porch. Doug, what's going on in the back porch?

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Joe, There's a ton on the back porch today. I just have to move it all to the side so I can get to the cooler to get my beer first. Okay, so here we go. One, there's an email coming out, right? I think everybody needs to watch their email because we got some guide updates coming out in the next couple of days.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

We do, yeah. If you're somebody who gets one of our guides. If you don't get our guides, you may not know that these are updated every single month. We send you an email with the new update. And so the Tax Guide, the College Planning Guide and the HR Guide are all live coming next. By the way, speaking Michael, of of having a better dashboard, your financial dashboard guide is going to be coming probably in the next 30 days and then a retirement guide. And those will be all five of them. But in the Tax Guide this month, more from the obbb, the new legislation with a lot of tax changes. Those are going into the Tax Guide this month on the College Planning Guide, brand new. Just a month ago, we talked about the FAFSA when the College Planning Guide first came out. We do a whole walkthrough of the FAFSA now in this month's update of the guide. So taking it step by step through the FAFSA and on the HR Guide, more details on health insurance, where we go through some examples of if you're in this situation, this might be what you should think about. If you're in this situation, this might be what you should think about. So trying to demystify some of those health insurance discussions. If you're not getting the guides and you'd like to, and you buy it one time, we update it every month. No matter how the tax laws change or the college process changes or your HR changes at work or you change jobs, just go to stackingbenjamins.com guides and you'll see the full suite of guides.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Joe, don't forget to tell them also about the workshop coming up September 3rd, 2025.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Next Wednesday, September 3rd. Speaking of health insurance, if you're like, okay, they offer this thing called the HSA. You want HSA basics like HSA 101. This is not going to be high level HSA stuff. This is going to be the basics of an HSA in human terms. Join me. 8:30, what do we say? Extraterrestrial time, ET or 5:30 specific, specific time. Yes, finally. And then for people Central in the mountains, you can do your own math, but 8:30 ET and 5:30 specific, come join me for about an hour and then I'll take questions on the HSA. Probably about 45 minutes actually for me on the HSA. And then we'll dive into as many questions as you have so that you get the basics of what a health savings account is and how it works.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

I'm sure it's going to be awesome. There's another thing we got to squeeze into this back porch. I said there was a lot we got to squeeze into this back porch session. Is there is a groundswell of support happening right now in the basement group for a Central New York Central slash, Western New York meetup. Derek says, just want to say I'm in full support of the Western New York Finger Lakes meetup. As I know, Jesse Kramer is between Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse. I'm sure we can find a good spot. And he goes on and on. A number of people, Joe, you need to know a number of people. A groundswell of people. That's a quantity. I think they have all chimed in to say that they'll drive for it. They're in. Jesse Kramer, the Jesse Kramer of Pfly fame and our Friday contributor says here's the problem, though. The audience wants neighbor Doug to be there. I'm sure everyone loves Doug, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But Jesse says, but if he comes, I'm leaving the state. So we have a, we have a little bit of a problem. We're at odds.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

I think what we will do, though, we'll see if Jesse would be up for having a meetup and we'll, we'll see if we can get details on that. I'm sure Jesse would have fun doing that. We'd have fun doing that. Doug, I don't know if you can be there or not. If we could get you and Jesse in the same room, I don't know, but we'd love to make that. But speaking of that, we have a great meetup group if you're in the twin cities, Minneapolis, St. Paul, our friends Chris, Veronica and Mike put that on every month. It is truly a great group that we've got in the Twin Cities. So if you're in the Twin Cities, look up our Facebook group or if you don't get the 201 newsletter. You may not know that we have that group and when they meet. Also we have stackers. Cole and Chris in Seattle are starting a Stacking Benjamin Seattle meetup group. Their first meeting is going to be in October. That's pretty cool. We're also talking to James in Boston who is starting to get some help for Boston meetup group and also the northern suburbs of Chicago.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

The area between Chicago and Milwaukee.

[OG]

Milwaukee, the northern area of Chicago.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Yes, right.

[OG]

Somewhere between Chicago and Milwaukee is where they'll be.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

The entire western coast of Lake Michigan group.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Keegan Meetup Group.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

This is such a layup. I don't know why it's taken so long for these because just imagine saying to your partner, I'm going to go do some financial planning for us for the future. They don't have to know that you're going to drink beers while you're and eat a whole bunch of bar food while you're talking about money. Or if they do know, hey honey, come with me and let's go do some financial planning. It's a win win. There's literally no losing position here. You get to go to a bar, eat fried food and talk about money.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

If you want a Stacky Benjamin's meetup group in your area, just write to me, [e-mail] and I can tell you about how it generally works. We can go over some best case stuff that Chris and Veronica, especially in the Twin Cities have learned in just over the years that they created our first meetup group. So happy to help people there. But that's, that's cool. If we can get Jesse to just do it one time there in the Finger Lakes area or even Rochester, that'd be awesome.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

There's such an easy joke there. Trying to get Jesse to do it just I think he did it his one time. Didn't he just have a.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Anyway, just over a year.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Here's the other win I didn't even think of. Everybody talks about how difficult it is to meet people, future partners, how tough dating online is. This could be an amazing singles opportunity because you know you have a shared common like value.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Holy cow.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

We should have hundreds of these things.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Absolutely. Anyway, write me if you're Interested, [e-mail] Not if you're interested. Write me if you're thinking about starting a meetup group and I can tell you how we're able to help Joe at Stacking Benjamins. All right, that's going to do it for today. Big thanks to all of you for lending us your ears. Thanks to Dr. Daniel McGee for joining us today. I think it's so helpful we all go through bur I don't know about you guys, but three or four times a year, I just need that kick, you know, just get back out, give.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Me a call, man, I'll kick you.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

And thanks. Don't be so excited about it. Hey, can I do that? Yes. Thanks to Michael for calling in and sharing his beer pick of choice in college with us. And thanks to all of you for hanging out with us. Whether you're walking the dog or you are commuting, just hanging out, whatever it might be. Thanks a ton for the time. Coming up on Friday, we're going to talk about retirement specifically and something that is a new idea which is taking these mini retirements. I think the number of sabbaticals in America that people take from traditional employment where sabbaticals have never been a thing, has doubled in the last few years. And for that reason, we're going to talk to Jillian. John's rude on our roundtable with OG and Paula, talking about how maybe this can apply to you, too. This weird concept of going to your boss and going, hey, I think I want a month away. We'll see how that works. All right, that's on Friday. But right now, Doug, you've got our top three things we got to know. Take it away, man.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

You know I do. First, take some advice from Dr. Danielle McGoo. If things don't feel like they're in alignment, the time to stop and fix it. Well, that's right now. Second, that old 401k, roll it into an IRA. There's only a few reasons why you wouldn't want to do that. But for most people, having a single catch all IRA helps you keep your eye on your money better and makes your asset allocation job easier. But the big lesson, don't ask Joe's mom about the Lion King. She says that play is total BS because the true heir really is the queen. And she'll remind you that she is the queen of this basement only about six times per day. Thanks to Dr. Danielle McHugh for joining us. You'll find her podcast plan, Goal Plan wherever you're listening to us now. We'll also include links in our show [e-mail] this show is the property of SB Podcasts, LLC, Copyright 202025 and is created by Joe Saul Sehive. Joe gets help from a few of our neighborhood friends. You'll find out about our awesome [e-mail] along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say Hello.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Oh, yeah.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

And before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don't take advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And we'll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show.