Dream Big, Live Free: Grant Sabatier's Guide to Entrepreneurship (SB1654)

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Stacking Benjamins Show – "Dream Big, Live Free: Grant Sabatier's Guide to Entrepreneurship" (SB1654)

Introduction

In episode SB1654 of The Stacking Benjamins Show, titled "Dream Big, Live Free: Grant Sabatier's Guide to Entrepreneurship," hosts Joe Saul-Sehy and OG welcome Grant Sabatier, a renowned entrepreneur and author, to discuss the intricate balance between entrepreneurship and personal freedom. Recognized as the 2023 Best Personal Finance Podcast by Bankrate.com, The Stacking Benjamins Show maintains a friendly and engaging tone, making complex financial topics accessible and enjoyable for listeners.

---

Guest Introduction: Grant Sabatier

The episode kicks off with a warm introduction of Grant Sabatier, best known for his transformative book, Inter Entrepreneur and Inner Entrepreneur. Initially introduced amid playful banter about his iconic beard and past roles resembling characters from Flash Gordon, Grant brings a wealth of experience in financial freedom and entrepreneurship.

Doug [01:54]: "Grant Sabatier is a guy who understands that when you stop helping other people build the thing that they're building and you begin building your own life, things get a lot better quickly."

Early Entrepreneurial Beginnings

Grant shares his entrepreneurial spark ignited at a young age. At around eight or nine years old, he launched a neighborhood newsletter to investigate a series of car break-ins, demonstrating an innate drive to solve problems and create value.

Grant Sabatier [10:00]: "I set up this newsletter and went around and sold subscriptions where I wrote about kind of the comings and goings of the neighborhood."

Despite the modest earnings, Grant’s early venture fostered a passion for entrepreneurship, which he later rekindled in his mid-20s through digital marketing. This period marked a pivotal shift from traditional employment to self-driven business endeavors.

---

The Essence of Grant's Book: Balancing Entrepreneurship and Personal Freedom

In Inner Entrepreneur, Grant delves into the necessity of aligning business pursuits with personal life to achieve genuine freedom. Unlike his first book, which emphasized relentless hustle and rapid financial gains, this new work advocates for a more reflective approach.

Grant Sabatier [14:32]: "Having a kid completely transformed my life, upended so much of what I thought about money and freedom and time."

Grant emphasizes setting boundaries and creating systems that allow entrepreneurs to enjoy their personal lives without sacrificing their business aspirations. By limiting daily commitments and focusing on what truly matters, entrepreneurs can cultivate a balanced and fulfilling life.

---

From Employee to Entrepreneur: Rethinking Career Paths

The conversation transitions to why individuals in their 30s and 40s might consider transitioning from traditional employment to entrepreneurship. Grant highlights the increasing instability in formerly secure jobs, citing examples from government and tech sectors, underscoring the imperative of self-reliance.

Grant Sabatier [16:41]: "Even people that I know that work in tech, you know, they're losing their jobs. You really can't rely on anyone else but yourself."

Grant advocates for testing entrepreneurial waters gradually, suggesting side hustles and small-scale ventures as less risky entry points. This approach allows individuals to explore entrepreneurship without fully abandoning the security of their current employment.

---

Practical Strategies for Aspiring Entrepreneurs

1. Aligning Skills with Passions

Grant provides a tactical method for budding entrepreneurs to identify viable business ideas by matching their skills with their passions. He recommends a simple yet effective exercise:

Grant Sabatier [25:55]: "Take a piece of paper or Google Doc and split it down the middle. On the top left, write skills. On the top right, write passions. Then look for the overlap."

This alignment ensures that entrepreneurs remain motivated and passionate about their ventures, increasing the likelihood of sustained commitment and success.

2. Starting Without Significant Capital

Contrary to popular belief, Grant asserts that launching a business doesn't always require substantial upfront investment. He encourages starting by monetizing existing skills and gradually reinvesting earnings into the business.

Grant Sabatier [24:10]: "If you're just selling your time and your expertise, you can do that without any money. Maybe $50 to set up a website or social media page."

This minimalist approach reduces financial risk and allows entrepreneurs to validate their business ideas before scaling.

---

Marketing and Pricing: The Cornerstones of Business Success

1. The Importance of Marketing

Grant underscores the critical role of marketing in entrepreneurship, drawing parallels with historical figures like Walt Whitman, whom he credits as an early marketing genius.

Grant Sabatier [11:39]: "Walt Whitman is kinda the best and first book marketer. He self-published Leaves of Grass and used smart marketing tactics to get it to sell."

Modern entrepreneurs can learn from Whitman's innovative strategies, utilizing content creation and storytelling to connect authentically with their target audiences.

2. Pricing Strategies and Perceived Value

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around effective pricing strategies. Grant highlights the distinction between perceived and real value, emphasizing that higher prices can often lead to greater perceived value.

Grant Sabatier [34:14]: "People perceive more expensive products to be more valuable even when they're the same thing."

He advises entrepreneurs to experiment with pricing through methods like A/B testing and introductory offers to determine optimal price points that reflect the true value of their products or services.

---

Finding and Building a Customer Base

Grant advocates for organic marketing techniques as opposed to relying solely on paid advertising. Building meaningful relationships within the target community and leveraging word-of-mouth are pivotal strategies.

Grant Sabatier [37:41]: "You're talking about paid marketing tactics, TV, radio, advertising. It has to be organic. You have to get to know your neighbors, your community."

Creating valuable content and sharing personal stories fosters authenticity, making it easier to attract and retain loyal customers who resonate with the brand's narrative.

---

Common Misconceptions About Entrepreneurship

The hosts and Grant discuss prevalent myths surrounding entrepreneurship, particularly the belief that entrepreneurs inherently face extreme risks or that success is solely tied to financial gain.

Grant Sabatier [23:45]: "Entrepreneurship is certainly less risky than people think. You can make a lot more money being an entrepreneur than I thought you could make."

They clarify that while entrepreneurship involves challenges, with the right strategies and mindset, it can be a less perilous and more rewarding path than commonly perceived.

---

Tax Deductions and Financial Planning: A Lighthearted Debate

In a humorous segment, the hosts dissect the feasibility of writing off wedding expenses, ultimately debunking the notion that such deductions are practical for most couples. This playful exchange highlights the importance of critically evaluating financial advice and understanding IRS regulations.

Joe Saul-Sehy [54:43]: "Weddings are not tax deductible."

This segment serves as a reminder that while financial strategies can offer benefits, they often come with stringent conditions and are not always as advantageous as they might initially seem.

---

Closing Remarks

The episode concludes with reflections on entrepreneurship, pricing strategies, and the value of authentic marketing. Grant Sabatier encourages listeners to embrace experimentation, learn from failures, and prioritize personal fulfillment alongside business success.

Grant Sabatier [33:10]: "It's important to pick one and start experimenting and starting to get comfortable. Because it's always those first few things."

Joe and OG echo this sentiment, emphasizing the transformative potential of entrepreneurship when approached thoughtfully and strategically.

---

Conclusion

Episode SB1654 of The Stacking Benjamins Show offers a comprehensive exploration of modern entrepreneurship through the lens of Grant Sabatier's experiences and insights. From aligning personal passions with business ventures to mastering marketing and pricing strategies, listeners are equipped with practical advice and motivational narratives to embark on their entrepreneurial journeys. The hosts' engaging dialogue and Grant's expert guidance make this episode a valuable resource for anyone looking to "Dream Big, Live Free."

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Grant Sabatier [10:00]: "I set up this newsletter and went around and sold subscriptions where I wrote about kind of the comings and goings of the neighborhood."

• Grant Sabatier [14:32]: "Having a kid completely transformed my life, upended so much of what I thought about money and freedom and time."

• Grant Sabatier [16:41]: "Even people that I know that work in tech, you know, they're losing their jobs. You really can't rely on anyone else but yourself."

• Grant Sabatier [25:55]: "Take a piece of paper or Google Doc and split it down the middle. On the top left, write skills. On the top right, write passions. Then look for the overlap."

• Grant Sabatier [34:14]: "People perceive more expensive products to be more valuable even when they're the same thing."

• Joe Saul-Sehy [54:43]: "Weddings are not tax deductible."

• Grant Sabatier [33:10]: "It's important to pick one and start experimenting and starting to get comfortable. Because it's always those first few things."

---

Additional Resources

• Grant Sabatier's Book: Inter Entrepreneur and Inner Entrepreneur – Available at major bookstores and online platforms.
• Subscribe to The Stacking Benjamins Show: Listen to more episodes and access financial resources at StackingBenjamins.com.

---

Disclaimer

The Stacking Benjamins Show provides financial education and entertainment. The advice and opinions expressed are not a substitute for professional financial consultation. Always consult with a qualified financial advisor before making significant financial decisions.

Transcript

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Small business owners. State Farm's there with small business insurance to fit your specific needs. Whether you're starting a new venture or growing an existing one, State Farm helps you choose the right coverage to protect what matters most. Working with a local State Farm agent helps you understand your coverage options, offering local support to help you achieve your goals. Focus on turning your passion into a thriving business, knowing your insurance can change as your business grows. State Stay Farm here to help you succeed with your business. Like a good neighbor, Stay Farm is there Stackers. Are you working on your debt plan and you're trying to lower your interest rates? Navy Federal Credit Union is offering a 0% intro APR on credit card balance transfers for 12 months and get 250 when you spend 2500 dollars in your first 90 days on a cash rewards or cash rewards plus credit card. Navy federal.org Our members are the mission Navy Federals insured by NCUA. After the intro rate expires, variable APRs are 14.9% to 18% based on credit worthiness. Rates are subject to change. ATM fees for cash advances are up to $1 at non Navy Federal ATMs. Oh my goodness, we're back. We had a week away, Og and it certainly didn't feel like a week.

[OG]

No, no, it did not. Feels like it's the same as always.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I missed everyone so much. I missed you guys.

[Doug]

We don't believe you.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, then let's just raise our bugs.

[Doug]

Quick.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Deflect. Quick, quick. Raise our bugs. Because on Mondays, if you're new here, we salute our troops on behalf of the men and women at Navy Federal Credit Union and the men and women making podcasts in Mom's basement. Here's the people that kept us safe while we were partying away all last week. Here's to you.

[Doug]

Clink.

[OG]

Wait, there was a party?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Let's go stack some Benjamins together now, shall we? Here's the song that we like to do for all the younger set of.

[Grant Sabatier]

People, the teenagers and what have you.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

This one's called Vacation's Over Vacation Zoe.

[Doug]

Live from Joe's mom's basement, it's the Stacking Benjamin Show.

[Grant Sabatier]

Foreign.

[Doug]

I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And we're back. Did you miss us? Of course you did. And we missed you, too. And on our triumphant return, like, like knights returning from a quest for the grail. Oh, wait. They didn't find it, did they? But wait, we did find something. How about the man who wrote the book on financial freedom, Grant Sabatier? Plus, in our Headline, it's tax time. And did you ever think you could write off your wedding? That'd make it less taxing, wouldn't it? I know a few people who think their first wedding was a write off and others who think it's the most romantic line item they could have ever declared. And because it's Monday and because ol Doug is in the house, I'll also stop this train to deliver some of my specially made money trivia. And now here are two guys who think adulting is just code for paying full price. It's Joe and. Oh, Juju.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Jj. I'm planning a trip right now, Doug. And we actually did that this last week. We're like, well, airline ticket. Can't figure out a way to make these miles work. So you know what? We'll just pay cash, pay full price and get more.

[Doug]

You just get stumped at every turn. There's got to be a way. There's an angle. Let me go search. You know, discount code. And you come up with nothing. It's the worst feeling in the world.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You know, we're here in, in Mid America in Texark Canyon. You're like, maybe if I drove to Boston, right? Let me, let me check that. Hey everybody. Welcome to can't find a loophole in the Airline Scheme podcast. I am Joe Saul Sehi and we're bringing back the greatest money show on earth for another eight weeks. And OG we are kicking it off this week with. You heard Doug, big time guest Grant somebody a back in the house.

[OG]

Is he bringing his beard?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I think he's bringing more beard than ever. I feel like Grant has turned into a muppet where you can, can barely see his mouth move because there's just so much beard. People that don't know Grant don't know that.

[OG]

That dude, he hasn't shaved since ought seven.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Maybe we, maybe we get him. You know how you give your guest maybe a gift, like thanks for appearing on the show. Would he be offended if we gave.

[OG]

Him like a trimmer subscription to Harry's?

[Doug]

I used to get that magazine. Now I remember the first time. I remember the first time I, I met him. I'm like, where have I seen him before? He's so familiar. I know. Nope. He was just in the 1980 movie Flash Gordon. Go and look it up. He is absolutely the guy from the 1980 version of Flash Gordon.

[OG]

Caveman from the Geico commercials.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

The what man?

[OG]

The caveman from the Geico commercials.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, the caveman. Yeah, yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no. Not really. You know What? I thought you were going to say Doug, the really old show. You're like, wait a minute, I watch Grizzly Adams. Exactly. See, that's who he looks like.

[Doug]

Here, I'm going to send you guys a picture, and I think we should put it up in the basement. We need to compare the guy from Flash Gordon with Grant. I think this is 87% on. I'm sending it to you right now.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, that's totally him.

[Doug]

I know.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That's 100% him.

[Doug]

I know.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Great show today. Grant is not only the guy that wrote the book on financial freedom, Grant's a guy who understands that when you stop helping other people build the thing that they're building and you begin building your own life, things get a lot better quickly. He's going to talk about how the slowest path to get there, you can certainly get there working for somebody else, but it's the slowest path to get to wealthy. He's going to talk about a faster path, which is entrepreneurship. And whether it's a side hustle or, you know what, finally making that move that you've thought about for a long time. We're going to talk about the pros and cons of going off on your own and making your own way in the world with a new business.

[Doug]

Like, would that include knocking over a liquor store, Joe? Would that be a fast way to.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Wealth, your own, your own business?

[Doug]

Yeah, I mean, it's my own business.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

My own business where I'm writing off.

[Doug]

I mean, you got some costs, right? Got like bail money. That might, you might, but it's a, it's a method.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Can you see those people getting audited? No, I needed, I needed the hoodie. I had to have the mask. I'm sorry. I needed the mask.

[Doug]

Right.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It's a business expense.

[Doug]

I had to have a getaway driver.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yes. Or I think uniform. And those aren't right off of old. No, no, no, no. No fighting over it. Good times there. Grant Satier is a guy who not only is a best selling author, he also wrote Millennial Money. He's a guy who thinks very deeply about money. And although it's funny, I haven't spent a lot of time with Grant. Some of the deepest money conversations I've ever had have been with today's guest. We're going to talk to Grant Saadier. He's our Monday mentor, in just a moment. But before we get to that, we've got a couple sponsors who make sure that this show is free and we can keep on keeping on so we're going to hear from them and then center stage, Grand Saadier down in the basement. That can really take a toll on you. I mean, between minimum payments and interest rates, it's really stressful and at times it feels, and I've been here like you just can't get ahead. Well, Navy Federal Credit Union understands debt's a huge stressor and they're here to help. Navy Federal Credit Union has all the financial tools and resources you need to dominate debt. Right now, Navy Federal Credit Union is offering a 0% intro APR on credit card balance transfers for 12 months. Here's the way. Use that stackers. First of all, you create your debt payoff strategy. You figure out exactly how that's going to help you because a 0% transfer for 12 months can save you a ton. But make that work for you. Plus you can get $250 when you spend 20$500 in your first 90 days on a cash rewards or cash rewards plus credit card again needs to be part of the overall plan. Don't let debt drag you down. Visit navy federal.org to start dominating debt today. Navy Federal Credit Union. Our members are the mission Navy Federals insured by NCUA after the intro rate expires, variable APRs are 14.9% to 18% based on creditworthiness. Rates are subject to change. ATM fees for cash advances are up to $1 at non Navy Federal ATMs. Small business owners State farms there with small business insurance to fit your specific needs. Whether you're starting a new venture or growing an existing one, State Farm helps you choose the right coverage to protect what matters most. Working with a local State Farm agent helps you understand your coverage options. Offering local support to help you achieve your goals. Focus on turning your passion into a thriving business. Knowing your insurance can change as your business grows. Stay farm here to help you succeed with your business. Like a good neighbor. State Farm is there and I'm so happy. The man, the myth, the legend back with us in mom's basement. Grant, somebody is here. How are you brother?

[Grant Sabatier]

I'm good man, I'm good. Good to see you. It's been a while.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It's good to see you. I got a question for you which is when did you first see yourself as an entrepreneur?

[Grant Sabatier]

I was pretty young, so we had this neighborhood, Greenwich street where I grew up. A lot of older people but some younger families moving in. And I was very intrigued one day when I heard that one of the neighbors cars got broken into and so I decided to start a Newsletter for the neighborhood and investigate it. And I charged.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

How old are you?

[Grant Sabatier]

Maybe eight years old, nine years old. Something around there. So I had my, you know, little like Packard Bell computer and I set up this newsletter and went around and sold subscriptions where I wrote about kind of the comings and goings of the neighborhood. And that was really my first foray into entrepreneurship. I sold subscriptions for 10 cents per month. And so you'd get two issues for that. And so wasn't making much money, but I was having a lot of fun and I actually got the local hardware to pay for advertising, which was pretty cool. So that was really my first foray into entrepreneurship. But then I kind of lost it for a while and didn't really think about entrepreneurship much. Once I became a competitive soccer player, you know, sports kind of took up my entire life. And so I came back around to entrepreneurship in my mid-20s when it was more of a necessity, you know. So I kind of had that entrepreneurship gene. Didn't come back around until I really found digital marketing and found something that I was like, okay, if I want to make as much money as quickly as possible, you know, being my own boss is a lot better than working for someone else. I'm, you know, willing to take that risk.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I feel like publishing and marketing has always been kind of grant sobatier. Has that been true? Like that's kind of your go to 100%.

[Grant Sabatier]

My mother actually was in the publishing industry. She worked for magazines for a while. So it's kind of genetic in that sense. I've definitely always been interested in it. And then the marketing piece, I wouldn't say that I'm even super interested in marketing, but it's unnecessary if you create anything to get in front of anyone. And this is one of the reasons I love Walt Whitman so much and all the marketing that he did with Leaves of Grass. And he really is, I'd say, kind of the best and first book marketer. And so once I realized like, okay, you know, you've got a piece of work, you want to get it out in front of people, you, you have to learn how to market. But I wouldn't say that I love marketing. I love writing more than anything else.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Wait a minute. I know Walt Whitman is any self respecting English major should, but I don't know this story about Walt Whitman being a great marketer. What's that all about?

[Grant Sabatier]

Yeah, so he self published Leaves of Grass, the seminal poetry volume, and worked on it throughout his life. But he had to put up his own Money because he couldn't find a publisher. And so he printed the first copies and went out and sold them kind of hand to hand and didn't sell that many copies. But he did manage to get in front of probably the most important influencer of the day, who was Ralph Waldo Emerson. And Emerson took a look at the poetry, liked it, wrote him a letter. At the end of the letter, he said, you know, I greet you at the beginning of a successful career. And Walt Whitman was so excited about this, he actually took it and put it on the spine of the book as a promotion for the second edition.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It's a testimonial. He's emphasizing the testimonial.

[Grant Sabatier]

Yeah, exactly, the book blurb. And so this helped the book sell immensely. Well, for the second edition really ended up upsetting Emerson because Emerson hadn't granted him that. Right. So for the third edition, you know, Whitman was trying to publish as many editions really as he could as he updated the work. The third edition didn't include that endorsement or that testimonial, but it was, you know, it already done its work and created its magic and allowed Whitman to get into so many doors. And he was just the consummate hustler when it came to trying to get his work in front of people who he knew it could influence and impact. And so he was just a really, really remarkable marketer. Did some other things, put out limited editions, author editions of his work. Probably not strategically, but it ended up working out really well for him. So I actually have the centennial author's edition, it's 1876 of Leaves of Grass to the left of me here in my bookcase. It's signed by Walt Whitman, and he published 100 of them on America's 100th birthday. And then it tried to give them to his friends and people of influence. And so, you know, he did things like that, that from a book collecting standpoint, make all the additions very desirable, but from a marketing standpoint, ended up creating, you know, scarcity and unique objects beyond just kind of, you know, here's my book.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That's so funny. We think it's some of the. All these modern day online marketers came up with this stuff. And Whitman's doing it, doing it way back then. You know, you think about people, though. We think about Walt Whitman. And even as you're talking, I'm thinking about him hustling 24 7. But in this current project of yours, Grant, you kind of fight that. Tell me about A Day in the Life you wrote. It's 7am on a quiet summer day. Your daughter's playing your guitar, by the way. How old is your daughter?

[Grant Sabatier]

She's two.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Okay, so she's clearly doing some Van Halen licks.

[Grant Sabatier]

Yep. She can already strum, which is awesome. I'm proud of.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. So what's going on at your house at 7am that it compelled you to begin this tale in this way?

[Grant Sabatier]

Yeah. So having a kid completely transformed my life, upended so much of what I thought about money and freedom and time. And, you know, time has just become more precious in kind of watching her grow and being around her. And so I try to spend as much time as I can with her. And so in the mornings, you know, it's very quiet, it's very peaceful, and it's like, wow, this, this is why I worked so hard. So that's why I opened the book that way. Because, you know, I think in my first book, you get a lot of the hustle. Hustle, make all the trade offs, save as much money as quickly as you can, drive the cheap car. And I think in this book you get a little bit more relaxed, reflective grant, where it's like, okay, I've worked hard, I've done all of these things, but what can I say no to? And what are the limits that I can create in my life that really give me true freedom? And so for me, very rare if I have more than one meeting a day. So this is the only thing on my calendar today, what we're doing right here.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Spending time with our stackers.

[Grant Sabatier]

Yeah, exactly. So I try to say, I say not a lot of things and I don't try to jam pack my time with so many things and so many ventures that I used to do. And I think it's really important in life to create your own limits or the world ends up setting them for you. And freedom really only exists within limits. And I thought that freedom was all about making unlimited choices and being able to do whatever you want whenever you want to do it. And when you really drill down into the essence of life, you realize that there's a pretty short list of things that you actually love to do and the things that you actually want to be spending your time on. And so how do you build your life around those things? And I think that's, at least for me, was a very, very different mindset than what I used to have. And so, yes, you might end up making less money on your business or growing it less rapidly or not even growing it at all, but you've used it to ultimately give you access to the things that you really love and the things that you really care about. Because those are what help you get more peace in your life.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, that's the question. If somebody's building a career in their 30s and their 40s. Like, as I was reading through these pages, I really felt like this is for people that are entrepreneur. Curious, right? Like, I'm not sure. I don't know. But why switch over from a career working for, quote, the man into being your own boss?

[Grant Sabatier]

The important thing is testing ways to make money. How does it make you feel? And I think there is an increasing urgency to the message just because jobs that were formerly very secure, like government jobs, we're seeing what's happening. And one of my best friends in Seattle works for the EPA, and he's been there almost 10 years, and he's worried about his job. He's built his entire life and career around the security of a government job. And so even people that I know that work in tech, you know, they're losing their jobs. You really can't rely on anyone else but yourself. And so even if you don't want to be a full time entrepreneur, don't want to make the leap, I think it's important to understand what it means and just think about what it could mean to you. And if you want to start testing it out, you know, I give a lot of ways that you can do that. And so a big part of the book is that entrepreneurship can mean anything you want it to mean. You know, you can build a company an infinite number of ways. There's so many things that you can do, so many things that you can try. And I think a lot of people that aren't entrepreneurs, they're just like, oh, I'm not an entrepreneur. Entrepreneurs are born, not made. People either have it or they don't. Or gosh, you know, I see my entrepreneur friends and they're all stressed, and that sounds so risky. And so I try to demystify a lot of that and help people reframe their mindset around what it can be and what it can do for your life. Because information is one thing. And you know, when I started a business, I had no idea that I could sell a company or how to sell a company. So it might seem overkill to be like, here's how you build a business to sell. But that's one of the best ways to capitalize on building a business. It's not building it and running it forever, it's building it to sell. And so if you don't know that that's possible or how to do that, then you're never going to know that you could have done that or you never could have built a company from the start that gave you that option or that opportunity. You know, I've been an entrepreneur now for about 15 years, and I think a lot of the things that I thought it would be, it hasn't been. But it's opened my life in so many different ways. And so I just wanted to share all those lessons.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

What are some of those things you thought it would be that didn't end.

[Grant Sabatier]

Up being one of the things I thought would be a lot riskier than it actually is?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, me too.

[Grant Sabatier]

You're like, gosh, that's either make or break. And you realize that there are stages and levels to all this thing and that, you know, it's just like your relationship with money. There are variables that you can control, and in fact, there are way more variables that you can control than you can when you're working for someone else. It's constantly making choices and getting more comfortable with just doing things on your own terms. And then as you learn it, you get better at it and you start seeing it differently. Difficult to communicate that to someone who hasn't done it, but entrepreneurship is certainly less risky. I also think you can make a lot more money being an entrepreneur than I thought you could make. And I thought it would just take forever to just increase my income and just. I'd have to stay on the grind for maybe 20 years doing this. I had no idea that I could sell a business. And when you look out at the landscape, you see that, wow, there's tons and tons of companies out there who are making so much money that literally they have a line item, you know, on their plan and their budget for every year for acquisitions. So M and A. You know, mergers and acquisitions is an essential part of growth and a growth strategy for most companies. So there are tons of companies out there just looking for businesses to buy, and there's a shortage of good businesses to buy. And so there's a few things that you can do, you know, have a profitable business, have everything organized, be in business at least three years, and have a product that has a little bit of a competitive moat. There are things that you can do and create that make you much, much more attractive from an acquisition standpoint. And that's something that I had no idea that you could sell a business and that there were so many people looking to buy businesses. Those are two big things for me.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

But even without selling it, Grant, what I found when I started focusing on the systems, and I think this is a good tactic for anybody that wants to become an entrepreneur. And you, you really go over this a lot, which is, even if you're not going to sell, making it a sellable business forces you to then build. And I want to get into what you said earlier about constraints to build constraints to build systems, to build these things so that you're sitting next to your daughter instead of, you know, an email. Hell, you're sitting there sipping coffee, enjoying your morning while your daughter's playing your guitar.

[Grant Sabatier]

Yeah, it's very easy, just like in comparing ourselves with others and other areas of our life, to look out at the world and see all these businesses and just be like, I can't imagine doing that, or that seems crazy, or that's going to take me so much money to do, or I can't imagine doing this. This experiential entrepreneur phase is really about testing out these ideas. You can start making money on the side. You can think through. Here's what a business could look like you can think through. You know, I go through in great detail. Here are the advantages and disadvantages of launching a physical product versus digital product versus content, business versus online versus in person. You know, I talk about all of these things. So if you're new to it, you can say, gosh, I really want to start this restaurant, but this is probably going to be a really terrible business, and here's why. Right? So it's like you can start to dream a little bit within some of those parameters. And I think that's important. I think it creates a structure and a system to evaluate businesses. And you bring up a really good point about systems generally. The second level of entrepreneurship in the book is Solopreneur, which is all about building sustainability into your business. And sustainability is built around systems. And so the goal of being a solopreneur is you're trying to take out and mitigate as much risk as possible and allow yourself to be more adaptable to change. The best way to minimize risk and remove uncertainty is to control as many of the variables that you can. So having those standard operating procedures that you've created for certain things in your business when you hire a contractor, things like editing your podcast or posting on your website, or sending out your email newsletter, or stocking and reordering new books, once you systematized all those things, it and you continue to improve them, but it minimizes just this uncertainty and allows you to know, okay, these things are working just as they should. I can focus my energy on doing the things that I enjoy doing and everything else, you know, I'm paying someone else to do. Because I do talk a lot in the book about, you know, how I'm a terrible manager, here's why I'll never have a billion dollar company. Here's, you know, I've recognized my own limits in my life and that's helped me be realistic with the type of business that I want to build. And some of those limits really do limit the amount of money or how big that it can get. But it's put me in a good place where I really like what I create and like what I've built and the systems are really in place that there's a nice balance there.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I don't know, Grant. I actually thought about the opposite, which is the more you realize your own limitations, the more you're going to focus on your unique talent and you're going to hire people that have their unique talent, which meshes nicely with yours. And also the fact that you're not going to be a. I mean, I'm sure everybody listening to this has had a micromanager before that just dabbles in freaking everything and they're way worse at it than you are. So you talk to your boss, you're like, just get the hell off my back and let me do my damn job. You know, so if the boss gets that they're not great at everything, like, that's a win for the entire organization.

[Grant Sabatier]

Totally. And that takes some self awareness and introspection and.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Sure.

[Grant Sabatier]

All that.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You have a tactic, by the way, because a lot of the time people are curious and they're in that experimental stage. They're like, all right, I'm going to experiment with this. Well, even before we get to that tactic, the first thing everybody's thinking, Grant, is they're like, I don't have money to do this. Right. I'm sure you're hearing this all the time, I don't have money to do this. Address that. How much money do we need to really get into the entrepreneurship game?

[Grant Sabatier]

You don't need much. I mean, obviously if you're going to launch a brick and mortar bookstore, you need some money for inventory and rent. And there's a big upfront cost for launching an in person brick and mortar business. But that's often not the best place to start. And the first place that most people start and should start is just trading your time for money, but doing it on your own terms. So whatever you're doing in your full time job, whatever you have skills, doing, whatever you're passionate about, find someone to pay you to do that thing and then just see how it feels. And so when you're trading your time for money, you can save a part of that money. And as that builds, then you can start hiring other people to do those things. And it's just like saving any form of money that can start compounding. I talk about why it's so valuable to start as a freelancer and as a consultant, but why those actually end up being really terrible businesses and why you have to continue to trade your time for money. They don't sell for very high multiples. You kind of end up being your own worst enemy often when you become a consultant and you're not able to pivot enough. But it's a really great place to start. So selling something to somebody, if you have to create that thing, it's going to take money. But if you're just selling your time and your expertise, you can do that without any money. You know, maybe $50 to set up a website or social media page.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I feel like half of that is just confidence. You go in with confidence. Because I already know the tasks, I know how to do it. I'm already doing it on a daily basis. And I feel like a lot of, I don't know, I feel like a lot of entrepreneurship is, is, especially when you're beginning, is is confidence. But you have a tactic that can help our stackers match their passions and their skills to kind of create like what the idea is. That might be a good spot to start. You got a friend who you helped out with golf in this way. Can you walk us through this? Because I think this is a nice place for our stackers to really grab a foothold.

[Grant Sabatier]

Yeah. So the biggest question that I get is what should I do? It's not how much money do I need? Or the excuse, I don't have the money. It's like, what should I do? You look out and you're like, I can't imagine what I would do. And so take a piece of paper or Google Doc and split it down the middle. And at the top left, write skills. In the top right, write passions and write down all the skills that you have, the things that you're good at. People say that you're good at the things you do in your full time job could be hard skills like knowing how to code. It could be a soft skill, like being a good negotiator. Or communicator or writer. And then what you're doing is you're looking for overlap between those two things. So how can you use one of your skills to do something that aligns with your passion? If you're good at graphic design and you just really love rock climbing, how can you start working for a rock climbing company, maybe freelancing, doing some graphic design for them, just so you can then get close and start working in the industry that you love as a way to just get more information. And this is important too. Information is so essential. And it's much easier to launch a business from within something you already know how to do or you're familiar with than it is to go blind, right? If I'm like, I've looked at websites to buy and there was one where it was about bourbon. And I've had some bourbon in my time, but I wouldn't say I'm passionate about it, but I thought very hard because I was like, oh, I know I can grow and scale this website and I have these skills to build it, but because I'm not passionate about bourbon, that's going to be this rate limiting factor, you know, for me. And no matter how much I study, how much I read the market research reports, because I'm not out there hunting for bottles, it's going to really limit the growth here for me. And so I didn't buy it. It's one of these things where you're looking for that overlap in your skills and your passions, and you're thinking through all the different things that you could do when those align. And then if you don't find any alignment, I walk through a bunch of different questions that you can ask to get you further to it and then offer a bunch of sample ideas. The important thing is to pick one and start experimenting and starting to get comfortable. Because it's always those first few things. You know, for a lot of us personal finance creators, it was the first freelance writing gig that we got and we did a couple of writing pieces and it's like, huh, someone's paid me to write, I'm gonna write on the side. I'm gonna use some of this money to grow my own website, to grow my own brand. And then you can kind of scale up from there. So being able to start somewhere but knowing a little bit about the topic. And this is really, really important. Cause people always ask that question, should I follow my passion or follow the money? And I'm always gonna lean towards the passion side because you're going to stick with it. If you're into it, you're going to have some unique insider perspective that someone else is not going to have. And it's going to be a lot more fun if you just do something to make money. Something's going to be missing in your life in some way.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I don't know. Bourbon sounds like it could be a lot of fun, Grant. I mean, number one, you develop this new pastime and number two, maybe you get involved in a 12 step program later, like it's a bonus.

[Grant Sabatier]

Maybe it's also, I mean, I fast forward ahead many years and I'm like, oh, you know, younger people are drinking less. People are clearly drinking less. Yeah, for right now, this will probably be fine, but you know, I don't see this as viable.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, definitely not a growth industry right now.

[Grant Sabatier]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You know, you talk about following your passion. I have a friend who's creating a board game. Every move he makes is a guy that plays a lot of board games. I'm seeing him shrink his potential audience size. I mean, he's got this really quirky. It's a cool idea, but it's really, really quirky to the point that for me, as a guy that plays a lot of games, I think I don't even know if this is viable. I think both people that love this kind of game are going to have a great time. But how do you look at when your passion is viable and what it is? Like, what's the research you do to kind of go, okay, is this really a thing I should do?

[Grant Sabatier]

That's great. You're doing something that's important. You look at the way the market currently is, right? So people playing board games, what kind of board games are they into? What are they playing? What are the trends? People? Are they playing shorter board games because they have less attention spans? Are they playing longer board games because they're stressed out about something and they just want to disappear for a while? What are those trends? And if you're a board game player like you, you're going to know that, right? Here you are with all this expertise and you're saying, hey, based on the current market, this looks like a really terrible idea. And that's fine. You recognize maybe the market's too small, but I flip that on its head a little bit and say, okay, is it viable to do something that no one else is doing because the market's going to grow in some way? You know, there's always natural evolution in anything. I mean, we think about even. You know, I started Writing about side hustling in 2010, 2011, very early, hardly anyone was talking about it, but it ended up being like one of the most searched terms of the year a couple of years ago. So it's like these things that have little bit of tangential interest, but because you're so passionate about it and you want to share that with others because of the Internet, the things that are very, very micro niche, have a much broader audience and can grow more rapidly, especially if they have some novel component to them. So maybe the game's really complicated and takes forever and it's just like it's not something you want to play, but it unlocks this whole new category that didn't exist because no one knew that they wanted it or that it could exist. So that's a fine balance. And I wouldn't put all of my eggs in that basket and mortgage my house to launch a board game. It's so complicated that someone who's into board games might not want to do it, but it's definitely worth testing if you're passionate about it. Those are the things that tend to be the most successful because they're a category that doesn't exist yet, but very hard to evaluate that, but probably worth taking the risk.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, what I love about what you're saying too is, which is why I like the term of this first phase, which is this experimental entrepreneur phase. Because I'm experimenting, right? It is a science project. And things that you get wrong. You talk about an app that you tried to launch, you're experimenting with things and guess what, you learn. I feel like learning what doesn't work helps you build that pathway. You even write this. That failure should be something that you expect if you're going to go into entrepreneurship, you should expect to fail.

[Grant Sabatier]

Yeah, I mean, it's inevitable. I mean, any business, you plot the timeline long enough, you know it's going to fail. You look at the company's in The S&P 500 now, it's like almost all of them have only been in business for 50 years or less or something, you know, so it's like businesses fail and it's inevitable. A really important thing is there's kind of this law of averages where it's like when you're an entrepreneur, you gotta fail a few times before you find that hit. Some people get lucky right out the gate, but it's like you gotta get the failures out of the way in some sense. Testing, learning what makes you feel comfortable. You know, you don't have to do this Forever. You can say for the next six months, I'm gonna try these three ideas. I'm going to see what sticks. I'm going to see what I like to do. I'm going to learn some new skills. I'm not going to trade a whole lot of money. It's just going to take a little bit of my time and I'm going to figure this out. This is going to be messy. I don't know if it's going to work. It's going to be uncomfortable. But I'm moving towards something that I'm in control of instead of just accepting whatever narrative I've been accepting before. So I wouldn't say it takes a specific type of person, but it does take a little bit of like, hey, you know, I've got four hours a week. It sounds good. I want to try something out. What are the avenues that I can start pursuing and how can I get better at this? Because it's just like anything, the more you do it, it's just like, whoa. Something that was really hard becomes easier much faster.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That's one of my favorite points you make in the book, that I don't hear enough. People who are talking about how great it would be to be an entrepreneur is it isn't about money as much as it's about time. It's about time and every entrepreneur is doing two things. Number one, you're creating constraints for yourself, which you talked about earlier. And then number two is being good inside that time is so absolutely, absolutely important. I want to stick with this. Well, maybe not even the guy with the board game, but a bigger problem I see new entrepreneurs have all the time grant that you address is that we have this new product. Maybe it's ourself. Maybe we're going into consulting, which I love. The fact that is a great way to start, or I have the board game or whatever. I feel like it's my first product or it's my first gig. It's my first thing. So the first thing we do, pricing wise, you already know this. We drop the price because we think that lower price is where it's at. Every experienced entrepreneur I talk to says, that's a huge effing mistake. Like, that is a how do we price this new thing we're going to do effectively?

[Grant Sabatier]

Oh, man. Yeah. I go so deep on this and talk about sort of perceived versus real value and how you can make a lot more money selling the same thing to someone with money as opposed to someone who doesn't have money and how do you start price testing? You're absolutely right. I think most people under price right out the gate, and then they're just not able to make enough profit margins, so they don't have enough lifeblood for their business, and they just go out of business.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

So washed away way too soon. Way too soon.

[Grant Sabatier]

It's very important to learn how to price and to test it out. I mean, I think when you're first starting, you can have lower prices just so you can get some happy customers and testimonials. You can do introductory prices. You can do all those things. But the nice thing is, because of the Internet, because of AB testing, because of AI, you can do just like massive amounts of price testing automatically when you're launching any type of product. And the closer you are to your market and to your product and to your customer, the easier it is to see how much they're willing to pay. There's also just that perceived value. People perceive more expensive products to be more valuable even when they're the same thing. So this can get really predatory when you get really, really good at marketing. There's a fine line to balance between being good at marketing and being just like, deceptive in some ways, or manipulative, I guess, is a better word to say. Because there are all these tricks that you can use to employ to prey on people's fear and make them feel bad and basically shame them or scare them into buying your product. That's just a bad way to market. You know, when you put energy into that, you know, it ends up just not feeling very good. But it is really important to communicate clearly what you're offering and to test out these prices. And I go deep into it. So that's one of those sections where it's like, in all my early readers, they're like, well, why did you put this so. So early in the book? Maybe you should move this to later. I'm like, no, no. It's really important to understand.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

This is like chapter four we're talking about. This is Right.

[Grant Sabatier]

But it's an experimental. It's when you're experimenting. Because it can be really hard to charge people a lot of money for something you know and feel good about it. There's a limit to anything, right? If you're selling apple pies at a farmer's market or, you know, I talk about a baker. Dan the baker is a baker in Columbus. If you're the best and you want to sell your $17 sourdough breads, and people line up for it and they're like, wow, this is better because it costs more and it's actually really good. You can get away with that. But there are limits. If you're at a farmer's market, there's going to be a limit, typically to how much someone's going to pay for a loaf of bread. And so you just have to be extraordinary if you want to charge a higher amount or have a limited number. Right, because that's why you go into these bakeries. Or it's just like, hey, we only have a limited number of these things. And then they all sell out by noon or whatever. So people race and they're not even thinking about the price. They're just like, I have to get one. So scarcity, price elasticity, testing, all that stuff is important to know how it works early on. So as you build a business, you're like, okay, here are a couple tools in my toolkit that I have that I didn't know I'd have.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I like, in your answer to that, initially, you were talking about how initially I can do some introductory pricing. That leads you to testimonials, which leads to my last question, which is, you know, the other thing everybody's afraid of when they start out is where the hell am I going to find my customers? Like, how do I begin to look at my customers? Because it used to be that, heck, even, what, 15 years ago, you might even still be in a newspaper. Fifteen years ago, you might look on the radio. Those are both bye bye. And I understand we're on the second biggest radio conglomerate in the nation, as I say that. Sorry, Cumulus. It's the truth. They know it too, which is why they're adding podcasts like ours. But where do I go in that sense of community and shared places where I can put advertisements out isn't the way it used to be.

[Grant Sabatier]

Yeah. This is why organic marketing becomes the driving tactic. You know, you're talking about paid marketing tactics, you know, tv, radio, advertising. It has to be organic. You have to get to know your neighbors, your community. You have to participate within the world in which your product will thrive. And so if you're a mountain climber, you have to be a mountain climber. And you have to be around mountain climbers. You got to show up to the local climbing gym, know the climbers, get your product in their hands. It's not about just reaching out to the influencers. Be like, how much can I pay you to advertise this? Just like anything, good products, when people love them, they share those products with others. Good Books they share with others. Everything ends up being word of mouth. And so how do you create that word of mouth component is you create good products, have good prices, have a good story, and then you authentically connect with consumers. And the best way to do this is through creating your own content and sharing your own story. You know, you can even compete against the big dogs if you have a story that's relatable. And often people want to support the underdog or they want to support the new entrant to a market. And so you got to be open about who you are, why you created something, why you're passionate about it, why you're doing this, and then lean into that story. And I talk a lot about story being your competitive advantage, especially amidst all this AI stuff. How do you actually stand out when people are just rapidly doing things faster and faster and better and better and more automated? I do believe that people will still connect with stories, and that's what makes your unique, and that's what's ultimately going to give you your advantage. And so you got to have a good story around your product. You got to be able to stand behind it, and you can't fake it, because people can tell.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I'm going to point to two companies that did exactly that in my life. Number one was a couple years ago, I was in Duluth, Minnesota, and I stopped by the home store for Duluth Trading Company, and it's amazing. I bought their book, which was about the company. And it just. That company has such a story, and they're totally selling on just the way they market, the way that they have these beautiful advertisements, these drawings, these stories around their clothing, almost like, what was the J. Peterman catalog, if you remember, the old J. Peterman catalog that they used on. Talked about on Seinfeld after. I think that went out of business, and then somebody brought it back. But then the second one, there's a Midwest coffee chain called Big B Coffee. And the creators of Big B Coffee have these books that they made about how to sell and how to do things. And part of their story is teaching other people based on the success that they had. And I don't know, it makes me kind of crave a Big B coffee versus some other coffee story is, I think, everything to the way that we learn as people.

[Grant Sabatier]

Yeah. And then we're loyal to those stories and to those people and to those brands, and we show up again and again and again.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah.

[Grant Sabatier]

And so there's an essence to all those things. I think it was easier to do in the past because there's just fewer competitors. I think vulnerability can be kind of manipulated and it's kind of like false vulnerability that you see a little bit online.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, a little. A little.

[Grant Sabatier]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. People can feel it, man. And I think they can capture your essence and. Yeah. Duluth. Bob Dylan, right?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah.

[Grant Sabatier]

Bisbee Coffee. Is that the Orange Coffee stands like those?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That is the orange. The Orange Coffee places. Yeah.

[Grant Sabatier]

I drove through one of those in Michigan a couple of times. Good coffee. It actually is good coffee.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Cool coffee. Jane Bigby, if you want to sponsor Duluth, if you want to sponsor the podcast, just let me know. Grantman, great to talk to you. The book is called Inter Entrepreneur and Inner Entrepreneur is available everywhere. Right tomorrow.

[Grant Sabatier]

Yeah. Ever books are sold.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Look at that right here.

[Grant Sabatier]

Yeah, Pretty cover.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Why is it called Inner Entrepreneur People? I'm sure wondering that.

[Grant Sabatier]

So a few books talk about the inner dimensions of being an entrepreneur, the challenges, the opportunities. And I really think it is about figuring out what you want and what kind of life you want to live as the starting point and then building your business around that. You know, having that inner awareness, taking time to use your intuition is all very, very important. And I think the double meaning of it is you're an entrepreneur whether you think you are or not. And so how do you tap into that inner entrepreneur that's already in there and nurture it? And so it kind of has double meanings in this sense.

[Doug]

Hey there, Stackers. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And you know, I had a great idea of my own one time, and as Grant said, it was based on my skills and passions. That's right. I was gonna design a video game. It was an amazing idea too. You'd like, you drive around in an El Camino and yell random phrases at people, am I right? Sadly, once Eddie down in the corner went to jail, my potential backer was gone, so. So here I am, you know, with you. But lucky. So let's turn that frown upside down with today's video game themed question. What console video game, adjusted for inflation, is the highest grossing of all time? Wait, Joe, I don't want to like a gross video game. I asked you to write some trivia about a video game that made the most money.

[OG]

Doug, gross is a money term.

[Doug]

Oh, yeah, Hang. I was just checking to see if you knew Joe. I'll be back right after I go tell Joe's mom to gross up her next batch of brownies. I'm hungry.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Today's show is sponsored by Strawberry Me Stackers. All Right, everybody, let's talk careers. You know, you work hard, you bring in a paycheck, maybe even contribute to your 401k, like a responsible adult gold star for you. But here's the thing. Making money is great, but making the right moves to actually grow your career and earn more, Are you doing that because, let's be honest, hoping your boss finally notices you and hands you a raise? That is not a plan. That is a gamble. And unless you're the type of person who gets excited about betting their retirement on meme stocks, you probably want a better strategy. I certainly do. I have a coach, Mary Lou, that I meet with every Monday morning. And Mary Lou and I lay out my week. We talk about doing the things that are important to my family, that are important for my health, and the things that are important for financial literacy and stacking Benjamins and the intersection of all those things. And that's where Strawberry Me career coaching can help you. They'll match you with a certified career coach, somebody who knows how to help you get ahead. Like my coach helps me negotiate better pay and actually make smart money moves. So you're not leaving money on the table. You've heard me talk about this before. The key is to have people around you, smart people around you who hold you accountable to getting those things you say that you want for yourself. If you're anything like me, you've been meaning to, quote, update your resume for like the last five years. I remember what Mary Lou said. Are we going to keep talking about this book or you've finally going to write it? And I'm very proud of stacked. But without Murray Lu, I would have never had stacked. Your career is your biggest financial asset. It's time to start treating in that way. When I started treating it that way, things change. It can be the same for you. So here's the deal. Go to Strawberry Me. It's Strawberry Me stacking and you'll claim your $50 credit. That strawberry Me Stacking. Because maximizing your earnings is just as important as maximizing your investments. Strawberry Me does not facilitate or provide healthcare services. Please consult with a healthcare professional. But guys, let's get smart people around us, shall we? Bombas makes the most comfortable socks, underwear and T shirts. Warning. Bombas are so absurdly comfortable, you may throw out all your other clothes.

[Grant Sabatier]

Sorry, do we legally have to say that?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

No, this is just how I talk.

[OG]

And I really love my Bombas.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

They do feel that good.

[Grant Sabatier]

And they do good too. One item purchased equals one item donated.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

To feel good and do good.

[Grant Sabatier]

Go to bombas.com listen and use code listen for 20% off your first purchase. That's B O M B A S.com.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Listen and use code listen at checkout.

[Grant Sabatier]

The Jack Welch Management Institute at Strayer University helps you go from I know the way to I've arrived with our top 10 ranked online MBA.

[OG]

Gain skills you can learn today and apply tomorrow.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Get ready to go from make it.

[OG]

Happen to made it happen and keep striving.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Visit strayer.edu Jack WelchMBA to learn more.

[OG]

Strayer University is certified to operate in.

[Grant Sabatier]

Virginia by Chev and as many campuses including at 2121 15th Street north in Arlington, Virginia.

[Doug]

Hey there stackers. I'm Brownie lover and guy who maybe doesn't understand the extent of grossness. Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. You know, I've played a lot of video games. One that I loved was called Joust. Slash around, maneuvering pretty skillfully. Heck, and that was even before I turned on the console. But the best selling console game of all time, the one that Cha Ching the most, the one that lit the lamp, so to speak, the one that.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh come on, come on.

[Doug]

I had like four more. Alright, I'll get to it. If you thought it might be Grand Theft Auto or Tomb Raider, nice guesses. But the biggest of all time was developed way back in 1978 in Japan. And the creator was influenced by breakout Star wars and the War of the Worlds. Of course, the game was Space Invaders. And now the first two guys I thought think of when I hear the word spaced, it's Joe and og.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Life was going so well. It's going so well. And you just had to ruin it at the end. We're all friends here. And you led with violence. Don't know what.

[OG]

Don't know.

[Doug]

I'm gonna get my shots in whenever I can.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Don't know what's going on. Big thanks to Grant for stopping by. And if there was ever a time to start your own business, it's now. Oh gee, you've been a. You were an entrepreneur in middle school, right? Selling candy to the. To the kids, selling cigarettes on the corner.

[OG]

I mean I did not do that.

[Doug]

Is that wrong?

[OG]

It was a different time back then. Don't judge me.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You were selling. Selling something.

[OG]

Parents were three pack a day smokers. There was a lot of leftovers.

[Doug]

He's an 8th grader wearing a trench coat that's like draped on the ground on the right side.

[OG]

Worse. I was an 8th grader with a triple Fat Goose jacket. Because it was the cool one to wear. Because I had all the money in the world when I was in eighth grade. I started delivering newspapers when I was 11, when I was in fifth grade. And I have all these memories of. I saved a lot of money. I paid for my first car by investing in Franklin Templeton mutual fund. Because I went to the bank, and I was like, I can see the differences here. That thing says, grows at 1%. This brochure says, grows at 10. I'll take the 10. It was pretty obvious to me. I had no idea what I was doing, But I just said to the woman who was there, 10 is higher than 1. It's greater than 1. I'll take all that. But I also had a lot of cash. And I remember one time I went to the convenience store with my neighborhood buddies. We bought all of the Laffy Taffies because they were a nickel a piece. And I was like, I have $200. I have no idea how many Laffy Taffies I can buy with $200. That's complex math. But I know I can get them all.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

How much, by the way, did all the Laffy Taffy's cost you, do you remember? Probably like $18.

[OG]

I have no idea. But we filled up more bags of Laffy Taffy's than we thought we would. And we're like. We had to kind of cut it short. We're like, okay, there's more here than we'll ever consume in 10 lifetimes.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, you were going to consume it. I thought you were going to go resell.

[OG]

Just sell it for a dime. Bought it for Nicholas. No, this is just purely consumption, as they said. I got high for my own supply. I don't know where that came from.

[Doug]

I knew it was coming.

[OG]

I got the sugar buzz by the.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Time he was 13. He's on all kinds of sugar medications.

[OG]

I got buzzed on sugar for sure. But I could never figure out why anybody would want to do anything for anybody else. Because, you know, in terms of a job, because it seemed to me that it was way easier to just do the thing that you wanted to do and get paid for it. So I love the idea of. Of entrepreneurism. There's. It's not all roses and sunshine, though, you know, that's what I was going to ask you.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

What do you think the biggest misconception is about entrepreneurship? People that aren't entrepreneurs.

[OG]

It's the whole E myth, a hundred percent. My wife and I were having this conversation about a small business that she visits quite a bit and it's not run well. And I said the reason is, is because the person who runs it was a really good employee of that business and then thought, I can do this. Why don't I make all the money? And the idea of being an entrepreneur, the idea of running a business is fundamentally different than being the really good baker of pies, which is the whole story of the E myth. As you know, Joe. And if you haven't read the book E Myth, it's really kind of one of those seminal, I don't know, it's a great book.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It's a super easy read. It's a very easy read.

[OG]

I've said this before. I just love parable books. I love the books that you can like. It's like watching a movie, you know, you're just reading the movie basically. And the head character in this book is she makes cherry pies. Right. And that what it is. And she's a really good baker, she's a really good pie maker. So she should just own the pie making business and realizes making pies is not but 10% of owning a pie making business. And that's probably the biggest thing is you can be a good operator of the thing that, you know, you want to focus the business around, but you can't do that anymore. If you're going to be an entrepreneur, you have to have people who do those things and you have to, you know, work on sales or work on marketing or work on leadership development. That's your new job. Your old job was being a pie maker.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And just the fundamental idea that it isn't that you suck at something is the reason your business breaks. It's because you're really good at it and you don't realize that that success is going to give you huge success at the beginning. But because you have no systems and you're not focused on any of these other activities besides making the pies, you end up in the weeds and failing because customers become unhappy. You can't deliver your stuff on time. Your two hands just don't do it. One that I was thinking of OG that I find new entrepreneurs fall into as well is this idea that flexibility equals not working, not having to work as much. So the fact that because I'm an entrepreneur and you won't see me working at a random Tuesday, you'll see me at the grocery store at Tuesday at 2:00 while everybody else is at work, means, oh, you work for yourself so you don't have to.

[OG]

Must be nice.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, yeah. I mean so many times I've had, I've had well meaning friends go, oh yeah, well, you don't do anything all day. You're a business owner. Come check with me at 10 o'clock at night while you are watching television. And let's see what I'm doing, you know, as I'm getting the show ready for the next day.

[OG]

Well, it's good. I don't know who said it, but the great line, you know, entrepreneurs only work halftime, which is really cool. You get to pick the 12 hours a day, which 12 hours you want to work each day, or the other.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Line, they work 12 hours to avoid working 8 hours for somebody else.

[OG]

Wow, that's true too. And that's what's so powerful about strategic coach and also what you're talking about about systems. It's both a blessing and a curse that you have the flexibility to not work on Tuesday's afternoon. I know that that's one of your off times, Joe, but there's a trade there. You're not working there and also not working somewhere else. You're trading Tuesday afternoon for Tuesday evening or you're trading Tuesday afternoon for Saturday morning or whatever the case may be. So you have that flexibility to structure your time the way that you want it, but it comes at a different cost. It is super nice to go to the grocery store on Tuesday at 2:00.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It's great.

[OG]

Ain't nobody there.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

So much more efficient.

[OG]

So that's super cool. But it's not in lieu of working on Saturday, here you're doing Saturday or Sunday or whatever.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Speaking of Saturdays and events that always happen on weekends, let's do a headline. Hello, darlings.

[Doug]

And now it's time for your favorite.

[Grant Sabatier]

Part of the show.

[OG]

I was stacking Benjamin's headlines, the event.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That always happens on weekends. And I'm going to, I'm going to one of these the next two weeks in a row. I've got a wedding. It's funny and kind of telling. You know, it used to be you were going to all your friends weddings. Well, first you go to your older cousin's weddings and older family members weddings. When you're a kid, then you go to your friends weddings. Now I'm going to my friend's kids weddings. So I've got one this Saturday and one next Saturday. But Doug, you found this from the Intuit TurboTax blog. Seven wedding expenses that are tax deductible. Oh gee, had I known that I could deduct my wedding expenses, we would have thrown one hell Of a party. Like, are you kidding me? This is a. I could write this.

[OG]

All off my spidey senses.

[Doug]

Can we still go get a second wife just to have the chance to write it off?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, go ask Mrs. Neighbor Doug if you can go get us. See how that plays with the home team.

[Doug]

I think you'd be finding a new neighborhood.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Janita Wall wrote this. Seven Wedding expenses are tax deductible. Weddings are expensive, so it's unfortunate they aren't tax deductible. Well, wait though. Tax write offs may not be top of wine when you're planning your wedding, with careful planning, there are some ways you may be able to garner a tax deduction. As you prepare to head down the aisle, here are some ideas from the people into it. Number one, the church. If you're paying a ceremony fee, the fee itself won't be tax deductible because it's paid in exchange for receiving a service. According to the irs, if you receive a benefit in exchange for the contribution, such as merchandise, goods, or services, you can only deduct the amount that exceeds the fair market value of the benefit received or expected to be received. However, any additional donation to church with no expectation of benefit can be deductible. So, Gene, what I do.

[OG]

So let me just. Let me just make sure I heard what I heard. So if I'm having a wedding and I've agreed on the rental fee of the church, that's not tax deductible. So we said. But if I want to pay more. So if I want to go into my pocket and pay more, then. So I pay more to deduct some. Okay, all right. Interesting. Interesting perspective. Also, most people can't deduct charitable contributions right now because of the standard deduction is so high. All right, carry on. Over one. Next.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, and hold on there too, Og, because, you know, you go to a charity auction. I thought this when I first went to charity auctions. I'm like, oh, this is cool. I can have a nice gourmet dinner and I can. I can, you know, drink all the great wines that they're serving at this.

[Doug]

Thing and then buy that game used jock strap.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That's right. Peyton Manning wore the same jock strap I'm wearing now. I can bid on, let's say, a trip to the Caribbean, and it's all tax deductible. Like, that's even what. That's what I thought. The first one I went to. Imagine my surprise when I found out. No, yeah, you're getting all this stuff in exchange now if I see the fair market value, which they list there, and then I bid over that fair market value, I may be able to. If I can beat that huge standard deduction, I might be able to deduct it. But to your point, OG not so fast. Okay, number two, the venue. If you're having your reception or getting married, a historical garden, a museum or homestead, or even a state or national park, the fee you pay may be tax deductible as a donation. Check with the site representative for more details. Again, any fee paid in exchange for a service won't be deductible.

[OG]

I just want to. This is comical. So I go to the arboretum and I go, hey, I want to have my wedding here. And they go, here's the wedding package. I go, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on a second. How about I pay nothing but I give you a donation like, and there's like the, like the wink with the, you know, so maybe we can make this arrangement.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Ding.

[OG]

You know, as I wink to them. Profitable for both of us.

[Doug]

Stick with me here.

[OG]

Like, what the heck? No business is going to take that deal anyway. Carry on.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Number three, the flowers. Once your wedding's over, have a friend take the flowers to a homeless shelter, women's center, similar non profit organization. Not only will you've done a good deed, yes, but with the receipt, you'll be able to take a tax deduction for the value of the items you donate. Remember, the deductible amount may be considerably less than the price you paid is based on the condition of the slightly used wedding arrangements.

[OG]

All right, carry on. One more seven. Number four, the gown.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Of course, donating your wedding gown to a non profit organization such as Making Memories, Brides Against Breast Cancer.

[OG]

That one. That one. Okay, package it together with all of your other stuff. Again, charitable deductions, standard deductions, pretty high. Most people don't have it. And look, some people kind of take advantage of this to some degree, right? It's like I'm gonna have goodwill come pick up a bunch of stuff or I'm gonna have Salvation Army, I'm drop a bunch of stuff off. They give you the blank receipt, like here's your donation receipt and you can fill in. You know, be kind of careful. Don't say that you donated $31,000 worth of clothes because that looks a little suspicious. Looks a little fishy.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Much more of a crackdown on that. We reported on this, what, two or three years ago that IRS agents really starting to crack down on.

[OG]

Well, I mean, again, back to the Standard deduction piece. It's like, what? I don't know. Remember the number. It's 85% of people use the standard deduction. So already if you're not doing that, you're. You're winnowing down that to like, whoa, oh, we got a live one, Bill.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You know, it's like the IRS beacons start going off.

[Grant Sabatier]

Yeah.

[OG]

And then you're the guy that has $18,000 of clothing donations. You know what I mean?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, I do like the next one as well. And. And again, I like that one for. And even the flowers I like for the nice thing you're doing. The tax donation. To your point, OG I think just do it. I rollable.

[OG]

Who's going to remember to be like, hey, I know this is. You know, here's actually, do you guys have a receipt I can get real quick to for the donation? Lady, you're dropping off used flowers.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

When we had chef Frankie Chilenza on, he was talking about the average food waste in the American household is 30%. We waste 30% of the food that's in our refrigerator. I like number five on this. Thanks to the Good Samaritan, Food Donation act might be able to donate the leftovers. Ask the caterer to package leftovers and then you are a designated person from your wedding party can drop them off at an IRS recognized nonprofit organization feeds others in need.

[OG]

Yeah, that would be a good idea.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yep.

[OG]

Good idea. Regardless of the tax benefit.

[Doug]

I was going to say, even if you don't take the write off, just do it. That's a great idea.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, huge. Don't waste all that food. Number six, wedding favors. Number seven, the gift registry. I'm not going to go into those too much because.

[OG]

Well, how do you hold on. How to hold on. How do you get a tax deduction on your gift registry, Joe? Because I might have a gift registry right now.

[Doug]

Yes.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Along with. We should have a gift registry for the show. If you were just thinking of getting us a gift.

[OG]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

We're registered at Target.

[OG]

I could use a new grill.

[Doug]

Yeah. OG would be registered for chill pills.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Along with the traditional gift wish list. You create a charity registry through my registry and encourage guests to donate to your favorite cause. Donations are tax deductible so your guests can feel good while giving back and celebrating you at the same time. Keep in mind. Or to claim a tax deduction for charitable donations, you have to donate to a non for profit 501c3 charitable organization. Typically, you have to have enough tax deductions to itemize Back to your point.

[OG]

And you wouldn't get the tax deduction. The person who donated to your charity, your name would.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yes.

[OG]

So basically, weddings are not tax deductible.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

The reason I love this up, Doug, is that when I read this, it was a big nothing burger. As is 95 of this garbage you'll see on TikTok and other social media platforms around. Hey, here's something I bet you didn't think you could write off your wedding.

[Doug]

And then you read it so that you scroll through about 14 ads and it comes back with, yeah, you can't.

[OG]

Yeah, you can.

[Doug]

But thanks for looking at all our ads.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It was, it was super, super fantastic. I, I mean, this is why I.

[OG]

Unsubscribe from the Wall Street Journal app, honestly, because I swear to God, and if I could ever talk to a tech person at the Wall Street Journal app people, the people who made that, I would. I bet I'm right. When you scroll, you know, you're reading and you're scrolling, you're reading, you're scrolling. They'd put an ad right there and the scroll would slow down and then you hit to scroll again and you'd hit the ad.

[Doug]

Yep.

[OG]

I guarantee that the scroll, you know, it goes. Okay, OG likes this pace and we're gonna slow it down by half a step. You open the ad. Ha.

[Doug]

Yep.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Accidentally click the ad.

[Doug]

Hey Joe, I don't think I heard or saw in the article of the seven things donation. And it truly is a donation to the officiant of the wedding. Priest, minister, whomever, typically, sometimes they'll give you a number or you just kind of hear through the grapevine that yeah, you should probably give them a few hundred dollars, but there isn't an actual like listed price for using that officiant. If it, if that officiant is part of a non profit church, I believe that you could try to write off. But to oh geez point a minute ago, it's never going to be enough to get you unless you're given your officiant 30 grand. It's not going to be enough to get you over that standard deduction. But I do think you could probably write that off because that's just purely a donation to that person.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, yeah, then that might not, that might not even be going through the organization, which might be a 501C. 3. The efficient probably is not a 501C.

[OG]

I mean, I've never known a way for you to give money to someone and write it off.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Okay, but we'll figure one out so people can give to us.

[OG]

Yeah, the church.

[Doug]

Yeah, that's a great point because you are giving either cash or writing a check to Ray Gunder Stoughton instead of to the name of the church.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You had so much time and that's the name you came up with.

[Doug]

It was pretty close to the officiant we use, so I had to change the name Mid. Like mid vowel.

[OG]

Gunter Stuff was Roy, wasn't it?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

No, it was Bill Gunner Stuffen.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Change a first name to make sure that nobody's harmed. We will link to this.

[OG]

Don't write off your wedding hunk of.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Garbage in our show notes page@stacking benjamin's.com.

[Doug]

Oh, gee, here's I don't know if you picked this up, if this perked your ears, but a couple of minutes ago, Joe said it's garbage just like 95% of everything on TikTok. So in a couple of minutes when he says, what do you think? In our TikTok minute, oh, gee, is this gold or is this not so gold? I think we know the answer.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Maybe. Maybe talk.

[OG]

Talk is the devil.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

But you know, it's funny, just because the lesson we're learning is negative doesn't mean there's not a lesson here and there. There definitely was.

[OG]

No, that's true. I mean, we just answered the question for a lot of brides and a lot of grooms and a lot of parents.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah.

[OG]

No, you cannot write it off. It's not a write off. It's a write off. No, it's not.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Speaking of a good use of time, we have just last week come out with our text guide. You pay for it once, you get the tax guide forever. We update it every month. Stackinbenjamins.com tax guide While you're doing your taxes the next six weeks, this is.

[OG]

Going to be tax season huge.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

But you know what? Tax planning happens all year long and that is half the guide is how to plan it ahead of time so that you don't get in trouble later on. And it makes those puzzle pieces easier to put together when you get to this time of year. So stucky benjamin.com tax guide we're super proud of the work that that the team did there. All right, let's mosey out on the back porch. Doug, what is what's happening today in the community, my friend.

[Doug]

Yeah, here's something, Joe, that I want to talk about in our back porch segment here. We got a great note from Brad, who's a member of our Facebook basement. He says he just Listened to Redefining Retirement with Benjamin Brandt. What?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, that episode was 1639. And I've given two talks about redefining Retirement to audiences since then and this really played into it. Yeah, well, you know, there's some things that you'll hear over and over and you're like, okay, that's cool. But I really like the way Benjamin melds retirement into your everyday living pre retirement.

[Doug]

And I think that's a little bit about what Brad talks about in his great post that he had. I'm going to keep reading what he said. He said, I especially was interested in the interchange regarding how important it is for almost retirees to visit places they might want to retire or drive the RV before buying one. Etc. For the last three years, my wife and I, mostly me, have been on what I've called the due diligence tour of golf communities and country clubs in the south, in the Southeast. I love that. No, sweetheart, I have to go play these top shelf golf courses to see if we want to live there. That's impressive, Brad.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I do like that though. I mean, because he's focused not just on top shelf, but top shelf where I might want to live.

[Doug]

I know, I know, but it's. I mean, this sounds like the, the best scam I've ever heard, frankly. I'm all in, Brad. I'm putting this one in my.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I might want to live at this baseball stadium, so I gotta visit.

[Doug]

We might be able to live on Augusta national, so I have to go. Anyway. He could. He continues. So far we have visited somewhere between 15 and 18 at each location we play golf, talk to the staff, take a tour, look at the practice facilities, eat a meal. If we're going to move and be a member, it's important the dining facilities are up to standard. Yeah, totally agree, Brad. Look at housing options, check out the downtown, et cetera, et cetera. I have a two page list of questions I ask at each location in order to compare apples to apples. To make a long story a bit shorter, I could not agree more, nor endorse more emphatically, the importance of doing front end homework regarding where and just as importantly, why you might want to move to where you think you want to move. Great show and a great podcast, Doug. Sounds like a guy I'd like to party with.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

This. That's why you chose. That's why you chose this one.

[Doug]

I mean, to talk about. No, this was quality, quality writing by one of our stackers. I can't help it if he recognizes greatness. I mean, Look, I'm a golden retriever. People just want to hang out with me.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

What I really like about this is just this idea that Benjamin talked about. Oh, gee. Which is that even if he goes to a community and he decides he doesn't like, still is great data. It's great data. It's a great story for later. And you're like, okay, now I know that Charleston, South Carolina, is a place that I don't want to retire to. Don't get me wrong, it is a place I would love to retire to. For me, I have a good friend.

[OG]

Who'S actually doing something very similar to what the email said here, which is trying different things. And he rented a house in a golf community in a mountain town for, I don't know, six or eight weeks last year because he was pretty sure that this is where they were going to build their kind of retirement house. The kids have off to college or through college now. Now it's like, okay, we got to do the next transition. And they hated it. Like, this is awful. Nothing is close by. The golf is great, but it's just the community. We, you know, we're. We're transient. We don't know anybody yet, but there's no grocery store. There's no movie theater. There's no. And it sunk in after a while. Like, yeah, the pictures on the Internet look really beautiful, but it's a place to visit. It's not a place to be home.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Great data.

[OG]

And he was like, I'm so glad I spent eight weeks on vacation basically playing golf and hanging out with my bride and, you know, kind of living the vacation life to realize, yeah, I don't want to be on vacation my whole life. That's what this is. This is like being on vacation. It'd be a great place to come visit.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

So he'd certainly come back.

[OG]

That's a really important thing to have a no list just as much as a yes list.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Potentially fantastic. Thanks so much, Brad, for that fantastic note. That's going to wrap up a great show. Thanks again to Grant Sabatier for helping us look at entrepreneurship. I hope that we help some people avoid some sketchy tax deductions as well with our headline. There's a lot to unpack here. But, Doug, what would you say are our top three things that should be on our to do list today?

[Doug]

Well, Joe, here's what's stacked up on our to do list today. First, take some advice from Grant Sabatier. Working for someone else can come with benefits, but working for yourself, entrepreneurship Whether part time or your full time career can change the trajectory of your financial life. Second, writing off your wedding, that might be a little much, but looking for every opportunity. Well, as a miner once said, there's gold in them our hills. But the big lesson, don't tell Joe's mom you're gonna warm up your joystick. Oh boy. She'll take that the wrong way. She'll think you're talking about video games. Thanks to Grant Sabatier. Also Lord Voltan in Flash Gordon for joining us today. You'll find his new book Inner Entrepreneur wherever books are sold. We'll also include links in our show [e-mail] this show is the property of SP Podcasts, LLC, Copyright 2025 and is created by Joe Saul Sehive. Joe gets help from a few of our neighborhood friends. You'll find out about our awesome [e-mail] along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello. Oh yeah. And before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don't take advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and we'll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin show.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

SA.

[Doug]

Foreign.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Welcome to the after show. This is the part of the show that doesn't exist. It was wild a couple weeks ago. Guys watching the Oscars, friends of friends of ours that know that Cheryl and I in the past have watched lots of movies invite us to come over and have dinner and watch the Oscars with them. And I didn't know any of those films. What's funny is none of the films that they talked about actually came to our local theater, which made me think.

[OG]

I recognize none of them. And I'm, I never recognize any of them except like a handful. I'm like, oh, Star Wars. Okay, I know that. And like none, none, none. None of these movies.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I saw the one about picking a pope. I saw that one. I like that movie a lot. And I also saw, okay, that one I did here.

[OG]

But I didn't think that won anything. Did.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Won some minor, a couple screenplay adaptation.

[Doug]

Or something like that.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. And then I saw, of course, Wicked.

[Doug]

I just saw an interesting article. I'm going to get none of the actual numbers correct, but it was something along the lines of in the last 10 years, 80% of the movies that have been up for best picture, best actor, et cetera, have grossed less than $100 million at the box office. So the numbers, I'm sure, aren't right. But the gist of the article was the things that are getting recognized now are low budget, more independent type films that people are watching. Not at the theater. They're not the big budget productions that are going to the theater releases, people are watching them in, in more streaming formats because that's where those independent films go once they're done with their art house releases. So.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Which also sucks because I just think the experience of watching a film at a theater is so much better. It's just so, so, so much better.

[Doug]

And there was somebody's acceptance speech talked about that, and I can't remember who it was because I did not watch the Oscars, but I read about this as well. Whether it was a director or one of the, the actors who, you know, one of the big, big time actors who won an award said, it's an experience. We have to get people back in the theater. Because watching that with a group of people on a huge screen adds to the whole thing. It's not just about the content on the screen, it's about the experience.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And you know what sucks is movie theaters are killing it themselves. I went to see this movie I want to talk about here in a second. A film that's not going to win any awards, by the way. It's not going to win any. But I'll give you my final take on it here in a second. It was a comedy and 30 minutes of trailers and commercials ahead of time. And they were all for horror movies. I'm like, why? Why the hell, when I'm going to see a comedy are you showing me 30 minutes of trailers for horror films? Like who, who's in charge of this stuff? And by the time you get to the movie, I'm so pissed that I had to sit through all this garbage like Cheryl and I. Seriously, when we do see a movie now, we show up on purpose 20 minutes late.

[Doug]

Wow.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Just show up on purpose 20 minutes late. It's so stupid.

[Doug]

The first time I remember ever seeing that was when I was living in London in the early 90s and I'd never seen a commercial before a movie in my life. And that was the first place that had ever happened. Initially I'm like, what is going on? This is ridiculous. You know, I was mad. But then some of those ads were like little stories in themselves. They might have been like five or Six minutes. And most of them were hilarious, and I liked them. But when you just get into true, regular old commercials. Yeah, that's. That's. I'm paying. I already paying you your fee. I don't want to pay you more. I don't want to pay you more by watching your advertising.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Everybody complains about how expensive the theater. It is such a great experience when you get to the movie and you're sitting there and my phone is off, and I'm just focused on this thing for two hours. And you know when you wake up halfway through the movie and you're like, oh, my God, the time has flown. Because I'm so into this, which I have trouble with my ADD doing at home, by the way, when somebody tells me, like, oh, I prefer to stay at home and watch a film, I'm like, I just. For me, I'm like, oh, look, little screen. Oh, look, there's this thing. Oh. I was gonna say, do you pull.

[Doug]

Your phone out in the theater?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

No.

[Doug]

To look at Facebook or something?

[Grant Sabatier]

Never.

[Doug]

You. You probably don't.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

No, I look at nothing but the screen. It is. It is the most beautiful, beautiful thing. And so Cheryl and I saw a film at the theater. This is the comedy we saw starring Kiki Palmer and Seze. It's called One of Them Days. And this particular scene, for all our money nerds, I thought was pretty funny. They walk into a payday lender, and here's what happens.

[Grant Sabatier]

$1,500 by 6.

[Doug]

Not to mention, I got the interview at 4.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Don't do it.

[Grant Sabatier]

It's a trap.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You want a loan. If you don't have the money this.

[Grant Sabatier]

Month, you're not gonna have it next month.

[Doug]

My credit score is currently a little.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Are you having a heart attack?

[Grant Sabatier]

I've never seen a credit score this low.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You lucky she holding me back. You're lucky she holding me up. If I get this job, I've never seen a credit score this low. And so they're trying to convince them, by the way, that if they put their two credit scores together, that then it makes a great credit score. Because it's going to be two people like you just take one credit score. Oh, gee, isn't that the way it works? Just take both the credit scores combined, and you get a credit score that's just slightly below average.

[OG]

Then add them together.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, I thought so. What was amazing about this movie, One of Them Days, is that the critics gave it a 90%. An audience gave it like a 94. And for a comedy. For a comedy to get those scores. Like, I'll go see a comedy if it's in the 60s, because historically, the critics don't know. Yeah, yeah. Critics, when it comes to comedies, just don't ever reward it anything. Oh, this is stupid. And really, it's a comedy about dumb stuff.

[Doug]

Yeah. Unless it's a highbrow thinky comedy.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Exactly. Yeah. And as an example, I loved Red One at Christmas, which. Which got panned, got horrible reviews. But it's a movie about saving Santa Claus. Like, what did you want? It is hysterical and absolutely stupid and just a great time, but you go in there expecting that. So this film, the way I can sum it up is I love the movie Friday. I thought Friday was a hell of a lot of fun. I don't know if you guys saw Friday, but for Friday was great. If you take two women. If you take two women instead of two men and you have them in the same setup, we got to get a bunch of money by midnight or we're dead. Right?

[Doug]

We.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

We are absolutely dead. So we got to come up with all these schemes to get the, you know, the drug lord their money or. Well, in this case, that was the case. We're in big trouble and probably. Probably dead. And then hysteria ensues as they try to come up with the cash. Just. I. I'll tell you this. This movie was not a 90. It was a solid 75. I laughed through it. I thought it was a little long, but I did think it was a lot of fun if you're on an airplane somewhere. And especially for fans of the idea of. Of Friday, that setup of, I just need a bunch of cash. These women brought it. So.

[OG]

Story of my life.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I just need. If I don't get the cash by midnight, can you see OG like, high pressuring some financial planning client? No, I need you to pay me right now. I got the. I got the people dude, standing behind you and your zoom calls with a baseball bat.

[Doug]

OG Fee up front. You don't even know how much I'm gonna invest with you. I don't care. I need $72,000 right now.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Or let's put it this way. I can't be your financial planner if you don't pay me right now, because I will not be here. Yeah, one of them days. Pretty good movie. Not a great movie.

[Doug]

I just pictured him as. As Ben Affleck in that interview scene in Goodwill Hunting. He's like, I'm just saying our situations would be commensurately improved If I had $50 in my pocket. Right now.

[OG]

Retainer.