Estate Planning, Charitable Giving, and Financial Hot Takes (SB1725)

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Stacking Benjamins Show

Episode: Estate Planning, Charitable Giving, and Financial Hot Takes (SB1725)
Date: August 22, 2025
Featured Panelists: Joe Saul-Sehy (Host), OG, Paula Pant, Jesse Kramer
Theme: Wrapping up Estate Planning & Charitable Giving Week with “hot takes” and in-depth, lively discussions on key estate and giving strategies, peppered with the show’s signature fun banter.

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Episode Overview

This episode concludes Estate Planning and Charitable Giving Week on The Stacking Benjamins Show. Hosts Joe, OG, Paula, and Jesse do a deep-dive “In or Out” panel on controversial financial topics: working with attorneys vs. DIY wills, transparency in estate planning with heirs, the timing and method of charitable giving, and whether to use donor advised funds. True to form, the panel balances practical advice with wit and engaged debate, often finding nuance beyond “yes” or “no”—all while fielding lively live listener input. The episode also features the panel’s trivia hijinks and notable, relatable anecdotes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Attorney vs. DIY Online Will: Which Approach Wins?

[08:33 - 13:12]

• Consensus: All panelists agree—if your situation is complex (dependents, significant assets), hiring an attorney for estate planning is best.
• Nuance:
  • For young, single people with few assets (“if you’re 18, 22, or 25”), a DIY will is “probably fine.” (Paula, 08:54)
  • Jesse: Highlights the value of “no stone unturned” and the subtle pitfalls people might miss alone:

    “It’s pretty frequent… that a real interaction with a trust and estate expert might dig up some things you hadn’t thought about.” (Jesse, 09:34)

  • OG: “Kids or no kids” is his major cutoff. “Once you have kids, everything changes… you need to spell out who’s taking care of them, the parameters, the inheritance.” (OG, 10:37)
• Other Docs: Joe and Paula stress the importance of healthcare proxies, advanced directives, and medical power of attorney—even for those without many assets.

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2. Should You Share Your Estate Plan with Your Heirs Before You Die?

[14:22 - 28:48]

• Jesse: Strongly in favor—transparency prevents resentments and misunderstandings, especially when outcomes are “uneven but not unfair.”

  "A lot of good comes from being open with your heirs… It’ll make things go a lot easier." (Jesse, 14:50)

• OG: Cautiously out; prefers selective sharing based on family maturity. Emphasizes building flexibility into estate documents rather than spelling everything out.

  "If you have a good team… and the right amount of flexibility… there shouldn’t be any ‘he got that, I got this’... Sometimes, you just have to trust the trustee." (OG, 16:16, 21:47)

• Paula: In; full or partial sharing fosters clarity, although not all conflicts can be prevented. Advocates sharing details—especially with those in formal roles (trustee, executor).

  "Even if you explain it, that won’t necessarily fix it. But hearing you say it… there is clarity.” (Paula, 19:16)

• Panel Agreement: Age and maturity of heirs matter. For adult children, clarity reduces stress and feuds. But sometimes knowing the inheritance in advance “lessens drive” (OG, 24:56).
  • Notable Quote:

    “I remember my dad telling me… ‘I’m the first one to not care—do what you think is best after I’m gone. I’ll be dead, man.’” (OG, 21:47)

• Listener Highlight: John from Wisconsin reflects in chat, saying a surprise inheritance at 50 left him bewildered for a decade—advanced knowledge might have helped. (24:38)

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3. Charitable Giving: Anonymous or Public?

[42:06 - 47:18]

• Statement: "Anonymous giving should be avoided so others are encouraged to give."
• OG: In. Public giving encourages others and typically, big anonymous donations are the exception. Suggests a “split” strategy:

  “Give $500 so everyone can see, $49,500 anonymously. You don’t have to draw attention, but you encourage others.” (OG, 44:13)

• Paula & Jesse: Out. Giving is giving—donors should do what motivates them and what feels meaningful, whether public or private.

  “If anonymous giving encourages you, great. Whatever encourages giving, I’m in for.” (Paula, 45:09)
  “If you want your name on a brick, great… I don’t see a big benefit to attaching a name, at least not universally.” (Jesse, 45:35)

• Debate: No decisive evidence that public giving always increases participation; context matters.

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4. Give During Lifetime or Through Bequest?

[47:42 - 49:56]

• Unanimously In: The panel agrees giving while alive is preferable—you experience the joy, your heirs or charities benefit sooner, and impact is greater when recipients are younger.
• Jesse’s Anecdote:

  “My dad… offered to pay for a family hike. I think it brought him satisfaction. I see the value of seeing your gift enjoyed.” (Jesse, 48:04)

• Listener Insight: “Inheritance at 65 not worth much; better when people are younger.” (chat, 49:56)

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5. Should You Use a Donor Advised Fund (DAF)?

[50:44 - 56:15]

• Jesse: Out. For most smaller donors, the complexity and benefits of a DAF don’t outweigh simplicity—especially if donations are small and you don’t itemize.
• OG & Paula: In.
  • OG argues DAFs work even for modest donors, especially if you have a taxable brokerage account:

    “It’s the one line item… Make recurring gifts of appreciated stock; get the tax benefit now; donate as you wish later.” (OG, 53:36)

  • Paula: “Makes budgeting and mental bucketing easier.” (Paula, 56:15)
• Joe’s Balanced View: Out, but with a caveat—too much money sits idle in DAFs (“$54.77 billion in 2023”). If you use one, make sure funds are actually distributed to charities, not just warehoused for a tax break.

  “If you could have a donor advised fund and make sure the money gets given, great… but the amount sitting in these things is not helping as intended.” (Joe, 56:15)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On DIY Wills vs. Attorneys:
  "I wouldn’t let perfect be the enemy of good."
  – Paula Pant, [08:54]

• On Fairness in Inheritance:
  “Uneven and unfair are really two different things… Who cares about fair? It’s your stuff.”
  – Joe Saul-Sehy, [15:58]

• On Sharing Estate Plans:
  “I actually don’t care. I’m the first one to not care. I’m dead, man—just do whatever you think is the best thing…”
  – OG, [21:47]

• On Inheritance & Drive:
  "There's a big risk... if people expect an inheritance, it can affect their life choices and work ethic."
  – OG, [24:56]

• Warren Buffett Reference:
  "Leave your kids enough so that they can do anything, but not so much that they can choose to do nothing."
  – Jesse Kramer, [26:55]

• On Giving Publicly vs. Anonymously:
  “How vain are you?” – OG, [42:06]
  “If anonymous giving is what motivates you—go for it. Giving is giving is giving.” – Paula Pant, [45:09]

• On Donor Advised Funds:
  "You should never donate cash if you have a brokerage account."
  – OG, [53:36]
  “Having a bucket just for charity makes budgeting so much easier.”
  – Paula Pant, [56:15]

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Important Timestamps

• Estate Attorney vs. DIY Will: [08:33 – 13:12]
• Discussing Estate Plans with Heirs: [14:22 – 28:48]
• Trivia Battle (Light Interlude): [29:45 – 41:15]
• Should Giving Be Anonymous? [42:06 – 47:18]
• Give During Lifetime or on Death? [47:42 – 49:56]
• Are Donor Advised Funds for Everyone? [50:44 – 56:15]

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Panel Tone

Fun, light-hearted, sometimes irreverent but always practical—true to Stacking Benjamins style. The conversations are peppered with jokes, trivia, and candidness about the financial nuances normal folks face.

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Don’t Overlook the Details: Even simple estates sometimes hide complexity—professional legal advice is wise once your life gets complicated.
• Communicate Your Intentions: Estate planning isn’t just paperwork—open communication now can sidestep drama later (but consider age/maturity).
• Give Thoughtfully & Actively: Whether charitable giving or family gifting, impact is often greater—and satisfaction higher—when you give while alive.
• DAFs are Powerful—If Used Properly: They simplify taxes and giving, but beware of hoarding funds rather than distributing them—charities need help now.
• No One-Size-Fits-All: Personal context, family dynamics, and comfort level matter in every decision.

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For More

Listeners intrigued by these topics are encouraged to check out recent episodes with Tim Semro (estate attorney) and Adam Nash (Daffy CEO) for deeper dives, and to join the active Stacking Benjamins community live on YouTube for future real-time discussion.

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The Stacking Benjamins Show: Fun, functional, and never just black-and-white.

Transcript

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Two hours ago, Kyle arrived at the bar.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

Hey, what's everyone drinking?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Thirty minutes ago, Kyle got his friends.

[OG]

Another round of drinks.

[Jesse Kramer]

Cheers.

[OG]

Five minutes ago, Kyle decided to drive home drunk.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

A minute ago, a law enforcement officer pulled up behind Kyle. Sir, have you been drinking?

[Paula Pant]

Tonight?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

A chain of events that began two hours ago is about to change Kyle's whole world. Drive sober or get pulled over.

[OG]

Paid for by nhtsa.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy. Just drop in some details about yourself and see if you're eligible to save money when you bundle your home and auto policies. The process only takes minutes, and it could mean hundreds more in your pocket. Visit progressive.com after this episode to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

30 seconds. Flowers.

[OG]

Anyone have the promo for the show? Notes? Wait, where's the Fiji water? Is this.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

This isn't.

[OG]

Is this tap water?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

15 seconds.

[OG]

I can't drink tap. Can someone tell Joe's mom to stop vacuuming?

[Jesse Kramer]

It's not hard to find.

[OG]

Artisian watered natural.

[Jesse Kramer]

Quiet on the set.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Live in 3, 2.

[Doug]

Live from the basement of the YouTube headquarters, it's the Stacking Benjamin show. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and are you ready for some hot takes? We're rounding out our estate planning and gifting week with some sizzling takes, and we'll ask our panel and you. Are you in or out on these challenging options? But that's not all. I can't wait to hit pause on that discussion, because halfway through, we're gonna see if Paula Pant can do something she's never done before. String together two correct answers in a row by nailing my trivia question. And now here comes a guy who's mastered the art of turning a hot summer mess into cool financial wins. It's Joe Saul Sehi.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Stacking Benjamin's Friday edition. I am the veteran quarterback of this podcast, Joe Sal Sehi. Just trying to get myself back into football mode. We're getting back into football mode.

[Doug]

It's quite a generous label you've given yourself just that.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I'm a veteran quarterback. I think we've been doing this long enough. If I were in the NFL, I would definitely be a veteran.

[Doug]

Yeah, to the point where you're the guy holding the clipboard with never putting his helmet on on the sidelines.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

Just.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Just cash it in.

[Doug]

The big Paycheck. He's great in the locker room.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

And a guy who we paid double to be here today is with us. Mr. OG's here. How are you, man?

[OG]

Thankful that you did pay double, actually, because college tuition's due and baby needs new shoes.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

So, you know, we're going triple today. We'll go triple pay.

[OG]

Give me a little extra folding money. I like it.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

And a woman who's here to negotiate for quadruple pay because she's our negotiation expert, Paula. Pam from Afford Anything joins us. How are you?

[Paula Pant]

I am great. But what is quadruple of zero? Let's see.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Okay. Five times, six times, Paula. Oh, it is fantastic. And the guy who works for six times. I don't know. Six. Six times. Six times $5, six times $10.

[OG]

I'll take anything I can get.

[Jesse Kramer]

I'll take anything I can get. I'll work for peanuts. But yeah, I could see you on the sideline, Joe. I could see you on the sideline, like directly underneath someone hoisting them into the air, maybe a football sideline. I could see you as the base. You're a bottom. You're a power bottom.

[OG]

Ch.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Look at me. Look at me. Yes. Sun's out. Guns out. Jesse, we are ready to go. Well, you know what, guys? We have a great show today. As you can tell, everybody's pretty pumped because this is the end of our estate planning and charitable giving week. And we had a fantastic week. If you missed it Monday with attorney Tim Semral. We asked him three big estate planning questions. Wednesday with Adam Nash from Daffy, going into donor advice, funds, charitable giving, and how all that works. Well, we've had some fun a couple times earlier this year with this concept called are you in or are you out? And I thought that this week we'll have some hot takes on estate planning and charitable giving that walks through some of the big, big answers. And what I like, if you're new to this type of thing, this in or out show, what I really like about it is all of the caveats that everybody has because, as you know, it's usually kind of a gray area. But. But I like, I like, you know, let's deal in absolutes and see what we find out as we explore estate planning and charitable giving. We're going to do that in just a moment. We got a couple of sponsors who make sure we can keep on keeping on as we are live on YouTube. We're going to hear from them. And then are you in or are you out on these hot charitable Giving and Estate Planning Concepts hey folks, let me tell you that drinking and driving is a decision that will change your whole world. Things will never be the same once you get a deal DUI because legal fees and time in court are just the beginning. Getting into a crash is another way your world could be irreversibly changed. After drinking and driving, your vehicle may not be the only thing that gets damaged in that crash. You could face a life altering injury or even death, but you're not the only one who could face those consequences. Your decision to drink and drive could permanently change someone else's world. Whether you injure them or leave their loved ones grieving. The next time you're out drinking, call a ride, share a taxi, a sober friend, or a designated sober driver. Always plan for a safe ride home. The only decision that will change your world for the better is the decision to call for a sober ride. It's never worth it to drive drunk. Don't risk it. Drive sober or get pulled over. Paid for by NHTSA this episode is brought to you by Navy Federal Credit Union. Navy Federal can help you find and finance the right vehicle with ease. In this summer you're in the driver's seat with savings. You could get a $250 bonus when you buy your next car through Navy Federal's car buying service. Powered by TrueCar and finance with Navy Federal. With this tool you can find the vehicle that's right for you as you search through inventory and compare models. And you could get an amazing rate when you finance with Navy Federal. Navy Federal strives to support all active duty veterans and their families to achieve their personal and financial goals and this partnership with True Car is one of the many tools Navy Federal uses to help its members make your plan with Navy Federal in TrueCar today Navy Federal Credit Union our members are the mission to qualify for the 250 bonus. Car purchase and financing must be completed by September 2, 2025. Terms and conditions apply and are available at Navy Federal.org TrueCar Credit & Collateral subject to approval. Navy Federal is insured by ncua we record this live on a day that may or may not be Friday and our buddy Dan in Baltimore hanging out with us says, man, I got excited and thought it was Friday for a second. Isn't that great? You hear the Friday show and you think. But then you go, oh wait, it's not quite Friday yet and we've got Bea here with us who apparently is in Vietnam said good morning Vietnam. That's not from a movie, is it? May or May not be. Let's dive in, guys. All right, let's go. Ladies first. Paula Pitt, we're going to start with you, Paula. Are you in or out? You should hire an attorney instead of using a DIY online will. Are you in or are you out?

[Paula Pant]

You know, my answer is going to be it depends on every single one of these.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

It can't be are you in or are you out?

[Paula Pant]

All right, if I have to, you could.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

You have to hire an attorney or you have to DIY in.

[Paula Pant]

In hire an attorney. But. But my genuine answer is it depends. But if I must choose a side, I'm in.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Why does it depend?

[Paula Pant]

If you are 22 years old, 18 years old. Right. And you're starting to accumulate some of your own assets for the first time, but you don't have that much and you don't have any dependence. All right. I think if you're, if you're 18, if you're 22, if you're 25, you can probably DIY one. But once things get more complicated, you have a more complicated array of assets. You have dependents who are depending on you. That's when you want an attorney to come into the picture. But I wouldn't let perfect be the enemy of good.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

All right, well, let's see if our other panelists agree with you. Jesse, let's go to you. Are you in or out? Hire an attorney instead of using one of these DIY online wills.

[Jesse Kramer]

I am in because I've seen, you know, it's pretty frequent. I think it's a higher frequency than maybe most people assume where that real interaction with a trust and estate expert might dig up some things that you hadn't thought about, might poke at some concerns that you have that you hadn't really considered before. Or at the very least, it's like the no stone unturned idea where at the very least, you went through the process and you got asked all the questions and you got input from a real expert so that you know that your basic will is fine. Being basic, I think there can be times when you DIY things like, like estate planning, there still might always be that nagging voice in the back of your head that says, I think I have a simple plan and all I need is a simple plan, and all I need is a simple will. But am I actually sure? So in my experience, taking the time and spending the little bit of extra money that it'll take to hire a professional, real life attorney is going to be worthwhile.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Well, let's see if this Is three for three. Oh, gee, are you in or out? You should hire an attorney instead of using a DIY online will.

[OG]

Yeah, I'm going to make it three for three. I think when it comes to your estate planning, my cutoff is kids or no kids. People say, like, well, I don't have an estate plan. The reality is you do whatever state you live in has an estate plan for you. There's rules that they follow. And a lot of this stuff you can accomplish on your own just by making sure that you do your own job, which is make sure the beneficiaries are correct. You know, when you set up an account, make sure you put a beneficiary on your account. And if you're like Paula said, if you're 18 or 20 or 25 or whatever, and you know, when you start that job or you start your 401k or you start your brokerage account, just put somebody as your beneficiary and you can change it later. But when you have kids, that's where all the everything changes. Because now you need to think about who's going to take care of your kids. And it can't be. The one thing I do like about the commercials that are on right now is, you know, like, it shows the mom and the dad, like, talking to the aunt and going, well, so, you know, if anything happens to us, you're our choice. And then the guy pops up like a genie and goes, doesn't count, you know, and he's like, you got to put this down. You know, you got to follow the rules. It can't just be like, you know, this guy said. And we see so many, so many stories of places who did have a good estate plan that still get challenged and, you know, all that sort of stuff. So listen, if you have kids, you absolutely need to have a professional estate plan done because you need to spell out who's taking care of them, what are the parameters, how much you're going to pay, what you want your kids to inherit in the future, how you want it to be structured. And you can't just do that through a beneficiary. So no kids, do it yourself kids. Make sure that you've got a good estate plan.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Well, unless that's even if you have no assets, no kids, and rich. Yeah.

[OG]

You still have to do an estate plan, but you don't have to. That's my point. Like, if you just go, I don't want to spend the $8,000 for an attorney. I'll just, what do I care I don't have. There's nobody around to get for my stuff. Okay, that's fine. It's kind of silly.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

It's interesting, Paul. I think there's a lot of people think, when we hear the words estate plan, too, they just think that that's a will. And yet those ancillary documents for people that don't have assets, to G's point, that still need to worry about, like what happens to me if I am disabled and I can't talk to my doctors.

[Paula Pant]

Right. Well, A, it could be a will or it could be a trust. And the first thing you need to do is make the decision, are you going to have a will or a trust? And so you need some level of guidance on that. And then B, to your point, Joe, who's your medical power of attorney? And what are you going to do in the case that you're incapacitated? And do you want to sign a, a DNR or not? Do you have an advanced healthcare directive? These are all questions that need to be addressed.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Jesse, with a young one at home, was it difficult for you to decide who would be the guardian that OG is talking about?

[Jesse Kramer]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

You just made it, Doug, didn't you? That's all you did.

[Jesse Kramer]

So Doug doesn't know it yet, but if we go down to this. Yeah, Doug, you're moving to. You're moving back to Rochester. No, it's super. Very hard. Very hard. Because some of the puts and takes that we had to go through is, you know, we've got friends who are extremely close with. We have family members who are extremely close with. Some of the family is local to us. Some of the family is not local to us if it involves a grandparent for us. So one of my parents, one of our daughter's grandparents, there's that question of, well, they might be fit as a fiddle and able to do it right now at age 67. Are they going to be the same way in 15 years when our daughter's 16 and they're 82? Do they even want the job in the first place? So many conversations. And it's. At least for us, it was not cut and dry. I know, I know. In some cases, I actually think for my parents, it was pretty cut and dry. They knew exactly who the guardian, the named guardian would be. And it was like one 30 minute conversation. Yep, yep, yep. But for us, much, much harder.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

All right, Jesse, let's stick with you for question number two. And I'd love to get, if you're hanging out with us live on YouTube. I'd love to get you in on this, too. Tell us if you're in or out on all of these things. The second one, Jesse, is this one. Are you in or out? You should share your full estate plan with your heirs before you die. You should share your full estate plan with your heirs before you die. Are you in or out?

[Jesse Kramer]

I am in. I am in. In. In. I know it's hard to do. I know that there probably are going to be quarter cases where people feel like it's just intractable and they're not going to want to do it. But I think that a lot of good comes from being open with your heirs beforehand, letting them know beforehand what's going to happen. Especially if what's going to happen could be construed in some way as unfair or even just uneven. Maybe it's not unfair, but it's just uneven. And being able to explain to them why you've set things up the way you've set them up, why certain people are going to inherit certain assets in certain amounts, having to be able to talk through that while you're alive is going to make things go a lot easier upon your death. Whereas if you don't talk to them while you're alive and they all have to find out about it after your death, there's nothing you can do about it at that point. You can't rewrite the documents after you die. And now you're leaving. You're leaving the tension to be settled between them and whoever is administering the estate or what's most likely to happen is just like one of your heirs and another heir. Right. The siblings are going to fight that. The grandchildren are going to fight. I mean, obviously that's. I would think that's something we all want to avoid. So I'm a big fan of talking about it in the open while you're still alive.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I like this idea. Og before I come to you, I really like this idea that Jesse talks about that uneven and unfair are really two different things. It doesn't have to be even to still be fair. You can give people different stuff and still have it be, quote and frankly, fair. Who cares about fair? It's your stuff.

[OG]

Yeah. I'm not as convinced on this, and I can't put my finger on the reason why. But mostly I think that if you have a good team of people who are going to administer the estate plan after you're gone, and you've built in the right amount of flexibility in your estate plan, then there shouldn't be any, like, he got that and I got that. Maybe it's important to have a big, broad discussion about estate planning. And, hey, we've taken care of it and Jack's in charge. And we've put thoughtful things in here on purpose based on what we see or what we believe today. But the reality is that a lot of times you write this stuff today. You write it in 2025, and then maybe you glance at it in 2035 and then you die suddenly in 2042. And it's like the rules that you had were for, like, in my case, right? I got a kid who's 18, a kid who's 16, and a kid who's 9. They're all at different levels emotionally right now. None of them are at the spot where they should be in charge of anything.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

You can still hold it over the nine year old now, though, that you could cut her out of the will.

[OG]

Oh, no, no, no. It's the exact opposite. They all know that their sister's getting all of it, and so they better be nice to their sister. We should tell the todder that she's the princess of this whole operation.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Sorry.

[OG]

You know, I hate these yes or no things because, look, if I was 80 and my kids were 50 and, you know, and I had a good sense of where they were in their life, then I would talk about it. My kids right now know Uncle Jordan's in charge and cousin Tim, who they both know and respect. And I'm just going to assume that we did a good enough job of flexibility in the plan that they're going to be able to, you know, make good decisions, you know, while the kids are where they are right now.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Well, what I like about. What I like about these is that we get these nuanced decisions that have found us all kind of flesh out why we truly are in or out as we get all of your. Your opinions. DB DRO hanging out with us says, oh, even if you explain it won't necessarily fix it. In the last years of your life could be conflicted. Make sure that all the documents are easy to find. Shane says, definitely in share with theirs 100%. Unless you're like OG and you want to play some dastardly games with your heirs, like make it a scavenger hunt. You think about that OG like an OG family scavenger hunt.

[OG]

That would be pretty classy. That might happen.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Dan is in like a limerick with.

[OG]

A bunch of riddles. I'm wet when I'm dry, I'm up when I'm down. Where am I?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Where's. Where's the document?

[OG]

There's the money that a big, like, you know, buried somewhere.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

OG has always wanted to have a video where he's in the smoking jacket where he gets to say, if you're watching this, I'm dead. You've always wanted that.

[OG]

I have one already.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

All right, Paula, we've got one in, one out. You should share your full estate plan with your heirs before you die. Are you in or out?

[Paula Pant]

I'm in. I'm in on that one. I do think that our guest deboodro77 in the comments makes a very good point. You know, even if you explain it, that won't necessarily fix it. Agree. The last years of your life could be conflicted. Agree. I think those are. Those are very, very good points. But in spite of that hearing you say it, when your heirs hear you say it, there is some level of, you know, I may not agree with this, but I at least am clear that this is what the deceased in this case, you would have wanted. I think about the TV show succession, there was lack of clarity as to what Logan. Logan Roy even wanted. Right. And so they were arguing about not just what the documents said, but, like, what did he want?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

It's funny, though. What about OG and his argument that, you know, he's looking at kids that are 18, 16, and 9.

[Paula Pant]

Yeah. I guess that goes to the question of what age is a proper age to have conversations with your kids about death or about death or disease or other scary things? I mean, it probably varies. Like there are parents who get a cancer diagnosis when their children are very young, and so they have to start having conversations with their kids about health and disease and death when the kids are at a very, very young age. And then there are other families where everybody's healthy and the grandparents have lived for a very long time. And so the topic of death has not never really come up. And so I think that really needs to be a case by case basis.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I kind of agree with what Stacker Annette is talking about online here. She says there are some key people who need to know. Paula, what about this idea of the.

[Paula Pant]

Key people know, like the attorneys and the.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

No, like the person who's going to minister the state on my behalf, whether it's your contingent trustee or your executor of your will.

[Paula Pant]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I mean, those people, but not the people you're giving the money to.

[Paula Pant]

You know, I think that to the extent that you can share your plans and your wants and your vision with everybody, because everybody is a. A stakeholder in this and they're not going to be able to ask you questions when you're gone. So to the extent that you can share as much of it as possible with all of the stakeholders, I think that is better than not.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Oh, gee. You like the idea, though, I'm sure, of the people that are going to play a part in your estate, they all being up to speed on what's going to happen.

[OG]

Well, again, kind of where we are right now, that just makes the most sense. If I look at another family dynamic that I know about, there's grandpa, there's his kids, who are all grandparents, and they have varying levels of economic success. Let's say there's a big broad brushstroke of one of the kids, is really good financially and has very much said, this isn't anything that I want to be a part of. I don't want to be in charge of anything. I don't want anything. Like, I'm good, dad. Like, just leave me out of it. So I think that level of communication is really important because if dad in that case was like, well, split it a third, a third, a third, that causes more trouble because the one kid now has to figure out how to not get it, you know, because he actually doesn't want anything to do with it. And it has nothing to do with, you know, liking or not liking his dad. But I think in our case, the things that we've shared with them is they don't have to ever worry about if they're going to go to school or if they have to move or if the house is going to still be here and that sort of stuff. They know that that's taken care of. They know who are the people that are going to help take care of them. And they know those family members really well. So, yeah, I mean, I just got to trust that the trustee people in this case, my brother, my attorney, are going to do the right thing and they're going to be held to the standard that they need to be held to, which is why we have the professional in there, too. Whatever happens after that. It sounds really trite. It's like, but I'll be dead. You know, I remember having a conversation with somebody maybe a year ago or something about some family stuff regarding some property that this person had, you know, for a long time in the family. And. And I said, is there any pressure to have to keep it? You know, you think about, like, generationally, right? It's like Always been the ranch, or it's always been the cottage, or it's all our stuff now it's at this generation. And the dad said to the kid, you know what? I actually don't care. I'm the first one to not care. I'm dead, man. Just do whatever you think is the best thing to do with the information that you have at the time. And I think we get so wrapped up into hanging on to the emotion of what the other person who is now deceased would have be thinking about. I've said it in the last week, I've said the phrase, my grandmother would be turning over in her grave if she knew I'm holding on to that emotion of the experience that I had with my grandmother on this certain topic, going, oh, Grandma, Grandma's for five years, you know, I mean, like, she might be looking down from above or whatever, you know, if you believe in that sort of stuff. But I also. She probably is like, I don't care how you undress your envelopes. Honestly, I just tried to teach you how to do it the right way.

[Doug]

Way.

[OG]

But we have so much attachment to the emotion of that stuff as opposed to looking at it from a realistic view, practical view. Yeah.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

John in Wisconsin says here in the chat, as somebody who received something not previously discussed at 50, I'm definitely in, as I'm still wondering what I should be doing with it now, 10 years later. So leaving something to someone unprepared at a much more likely younger time than I was seems really wrong. Prepare, prepare, prepare.

[OG]

Well, but the other side of it, too, is you run the risk of lessening their. What's the word I'm looking for? Like, their drive will to work. Yeah. It's like the family can kind of piece together who's got what. And like, I think that Grandma's got a million bucks. And she told me, I'm going to get some of that, you know. And you had that conversation when you were 7, when she was 70 and you were 22, you know, and you don't have a concept of what assisted care costs at $8,000 a month and how fast she's burning through it, you know, in memory care. And you're thinking in your brain, grandma's leaving me a million bucks. I don't have to do anything. Well, Grandma lives another 27 years. You're 50, you're going, well, finally the old bat kicked off. I get my million bucks to find out that you get 83,000. There's a big risk there, you know, without having Ongoing conversations about it, then I don't know, it just doesn't seem like a good idea.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

It is interesting. OG I just finished, as we record this, the show, the Gilded Age. The current season just ended. And there's a character, Oscar, who in season one had a ton of money. He was from a rich family.

[Paula Pant]

No spoilers. No spoilers. I'm at the beginning of season two.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Okay, well, some bad stuff happens, Paula, and I will tell you this. He loses a bunch of money, basically. He's broke now, but when he loses that money. OG to your point, and Jesse, to what you were saying earlier or alluding to, I think Oscar at the end of season three is a much better human being than. Than he was at the beginning of season one. The adversity and the fact that he had to face life instead of coasting through it on money that wasn't his has made him a much different character. Is. That's, that's all I can say, Paula. Without giving. Without giving, giving. Besides that, he dies. I mean, you know, I'm sorry. Yeah. But a thrilling season three just finished just before we recorded this episode. But, Jesse, I think that's what you're alluding to is like, if, you know I'm going to get all this money, I mean, your thoughts around work may change substantially.

[OG]

Yeah.

[Jesse Kramer]

And in the chat, John from Wisconsin alluded to that there's a good Warren Buffett quote where he talks about the money. He leaves his kids enough so that they can do anything, but not so much so they can choose to do nothing. So, I mean, granted, that's.

[OG]

Hold on a second. He's leaving his kids like a billion dollars?

[Jesse Kramer]

No, I think he's leaving them. Like, is it that much? It might be. I thought it was like 10 or 15 million each, which, don't get me wrong, is still a ton. Like, obviously we're talking about different level of money, but there's that idea that most of us probably want to leave our heirs enough so that they can go out and do something wonderful with the money however they choose to do it, but not so much that they lose all drive completely and just become a couch potato.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

But is 10 million that number?

[Jesse Kramer]

I mean, I know, I know this is. This is something we're talking about here. Right.

[OG]

What I was going to say was the reality, of course, is that as you grow throughout your life, those numbers also change.

[Jesse Kramer]

Sure.

[OG]

What you thought was a boatload of cash at 22 is pretty good. Money at 32 wouldn't get you out of bed at 52. And at 60, 2 is a minor annoyance because now you got to commingle grandma's RMDs with yours. And it's like, this sucks. I just tried to get out of this tax problem, and Now I got 18,000 extra dollars I need to deal with. And it's like, 50 years ago, that was a whole bunch of money. You could buy a car, and now you just want to give it away so you don't have to deal with it. There's too much that can go wrong by telling people that they're in it. Fine. What they're getting. No.

[Jesse Kramer]

Yeah. Someone in the chat also just said that exact. I think it was Phi Lighter, if I'm saying this person's name right. Paul said there's the estate plan and then there's the estate assets, for lack of a better term. Two different things. And his beneficiaries have seen the will, so they probably know to some extent maybe how the assets will be divided, but they actually don't know the scope of the assets themselves. Right. 50, 50 beneficiaries of a $100,000 estate is a lot different than a 50, 50 beneficiary of a $10 million estate. I think that's what Paul is alluding to there.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

That's the. Jesse. I'm contingent trustee for a family member. And that's the state that I'm in, is that I know how it's all being. I know what I'm supposed to do. I know where everything is, but I don't know what everything means. I have no idea the scope of the project. I don't know all of that. So he's decided to be private about how much. But in terms of where the estate plan is and what to follow, like, that is all crystal clear what my job is the second that something happens to this family member. All right, we're going to talk about charitable giving in the second half of this and gift giving in the second half. Can't wait for that piece of the discussion. But at halfway through our Friday show, we have this incredible, incredible trivia challenge of which the Paula Pant actually scored a point last week. And we're still a week later, like, I've got goosebumps. Paula, I don't know about you, but I'm. I don't know what's going on there, but I think Doug nailed it at the beginning of today's show. If you can go two in a row, that'd be amazing.

[Paula Pant]

Wow. If there was a betting market on this show, imagine the Payout. If anybody were to take that bet and win, I think it'd be a.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Huge payout because nobody's betting you're going to do it.

[Paula Pant]

Exactly.

[Doug]

Well, no worries there because Paula is still the dark horse with six and a half points, Jesse two points ahead of her. Two whole horse lengths ahead of her at eight and a half. And OG leading the pack with 11. But we have a little bit of a race going on. A little bit of a race.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

We do. All right, Doug, what's on tap, man?

[Doug]

Hey there, stackers. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and here's a big day in history. Back in 1902, Henry Ford finished a dispute with his investors by leaving his own company. He took his name, 900 bucks and his favorite mixtape and started the Ford Motor Company a year later. However, it was on today's date in history that those investors renamed the operation ol Hank Ford left behind as the Cadillac Automotive Company. Crazy, huh? Of course, they named the new company after to the line in the Billy Joel song. He's trading in a Chevy for a Cadillac. You ought to know by now.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Is that the way it worked?

[Doug]

No, it's not.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

It's not.

[Doug]

It sounds true. It's probably true. Anyhow, more recently, Ford went on to create an electric truck called the F150 Lightning. It took a while, but during the first quarter of this year, the Lightning took over the number one spot in the USA's electric truck category. So here's today's question. How many units did the Ford F150 Lightning sell in the first quarter of this year to claim the number one spot? I'll be back right after I go look up where the name Cadillac actually came from. Maybe it was like an acronym or something. Cars and donuts in lanes. All classy. That that works. Probably that.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Maybe.

[Doug]

I missed an hour.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

There's some. I'm sure there's some truth there. All right. Oh, gee, give us the truth. How many cars the Ford F150 Lightning, how many they sell 1Q20? 25.

[OG]

Something makes me think that the new car market is in the 9 to 12 million dollars a year range. So that's in the 3ish million a quarter. It's like new car deliveries. So 2 and a half to 3. What percent of all car new cars are trucks? Maybe 40%. So that would be a million. Ford's number one. But there's how many other brands? Maybe five. Realistic. Well, you said it's electric trucks.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Electric trucks.

[OG]

How many did they Sell to be the leader of electric trucks. Not be the leader of.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

No, just electric trucks.

[OG]

Okay.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Which is a tiny percentage of all trucks sold.

[OG]

Indeed. Indeed.

[Doug]

Hey, hey, hey, Joe, shut up.

[Jesse Kramer]

It just is.

[OG]

I'm just working through it. I'd have got there, but I know.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Press that they don't sell nearly as many electric trucks. Who knew out there in the back 40 pasture, you're. You're stringing up that electrical cord all the way to the back acreage in wyoming.

[OG]

Yeah, yeah. F150s are the number one truck for like 50 years or something almost now. So.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Long time.

[OG]

All right, so there's 10 million trucks. Two and a half million or 10 million cars. Two and a half million and a quarter. Let's say 40%. That's a million. Ford controls, you know. Let's say 40% of that's 400,000. I'm going to say that they sold in the first quarter. I'll just make it simple here. They sold 50,000 lightning F150s in Q1.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

50,000.

[Doug]

Boy, thanks for making that simple, OG.

[OG]

You're welcome, buddy.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Jesse, what do you think?

[OG]

49,862.

[Jesse Kramer]

So the sun is 93 million miles away.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Right.

[Jesse Kramer]

And 1400 watts per meter squared solar panels cost. I'm going to guess. I've got my notes here. I was kind of jotting down some notes, thinking about, you know, I was writing as Og was talking and. But my notes are much shorter. I'm going to go lower. I'm going to go 22,000. Being born on March 22nd. I'm going to go 22,000 units in the quarter.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Wow. Big old field goal there, Paula. You got 50,000 electric trucks. 22,000 electric trucks. What's your electrifying answer?

[Paula Pant]

Okay, well, let's see. So dinosaurs roamed the earth 165. No. Was it 65 million years ago? Yeah, it was 65 million. And then they. But the dinosaurs existed for, like, what wasn't it over a hundred million years? So I'm going to go with.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Wait a minute, Paula, before you guess.

[Paula Pant]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

A friend of mine, Robert, shared with me a bumper sticker that he saw recently that said this car runs on renewable dinosaurs or recycled dinosaurs.

[Doug]

They're not very renewable.

[Paula Pant]

God, I can recycle.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I can blow a punchline better than anybody. They're probably not renewing them, are they?

[Paula Pant]

It's all, you know, becomes carbon. And the carbon becomes.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Yes. Yeah, but it is recycled dinosaurs.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Paula Pant]

They disintegrate into the earth and it's a circle of life. And then Elton John sings a song about it and, you know, it comes back again. Yeah, yeah. It's all carbon and oxygen and, you know, various other elements. In the end.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Are you saying the circle life all ends in Elton John's bank account?

[Paula Pant]

No, no, no. Because eventually the bank account withers and falls into the ground and then it gets somebody else. Exactly, exactly.

[Doug]

Say a number.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

All right, what's your guess?

[Paula Pant]

I'm going to take the over 50,001.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

50,000. I think it's got to be 49,000, 863.

[Paula Pant]

Oh, okay. Yes. If OG's guess is we're going with.

[Doug]

50K for oh, geez. First guess was 50k. That's. I've already done the math. We're not revising that.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I think that's why he wanted. Oh, gee, got to do a better job next time of saying a number with two decimals.

[OG]

I will.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Yeah. All right. Paul has got 50,001. Oh, geez. Got 50,000. Jesse 22,000. Who's going to win this? We'll find out. A user online is putting a hundred dollars on you, Paula. So let's see. Here we go.

[Paula Pant]

That's. That's a lot of responsibility.

[Jesse Kramer]

I'll take that bet.

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[Joe Saul Sehi]

Money.

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[Joe Saul Sehi]

Before the Internet ruled all of our lives, AOL brought America Online with email and Instant messenger. By 2000, AOL was so powerful, it set its sights on media giant Time Warner. Deal was supposed to bring us into the future, but instead it became one of the messiest corporate disasters on record. But what went wrong? Was it culture clashes, the dot com crash, or something deeper? Business wars gives you a front row seat to the biggest moments of business and how they shape our world. Because when your flight perks disappear, your favorite restaurant chain goes bankrupt, or new tech reshapes everything overnight, there's always a deeper story behind the headlines. Follow Business wars on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast. You can binge all episodes of Business wars, the AOL Time Warner disaster, early and ad free right now on Wondery. This episode is brought to you by Indeed. When your computer breaks, you don't wait for it to magically start working again. You fix the problem. So why wait to hire the people your company desperately needs? Use Indeed sponsored jobs to hire top talent fast. And even better, you only pay for results. There's no need to wait. Speed up your hiring with a $75 sponsored job credit@ Indeed.com podcast. Terms and conditions apply. All right. Oh, gee. You kicked this off with 50,000. Feeling pretty good.

[OG]

No. The first damn thing about electric vehicles, let alone electric Ford vehicles.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Jesse, 22,000. You feeling better than O.G.

[Jesse Kramer]

Yes.

[OG]

Oh.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Oh, he feels.

[Doug]

Feels very good.

[Jesse Kramer]

I just. I'm not positive, but I think the number's lower than. I'm glad I'm on the under. That's all. I gut instinct is I'm glad I'm on the under.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

You're glad you're the bottom. You were making me the bottom earlier. Now you're the bottom.

[Jesse Kramer]

I'm worried about the field goal, but I'm. I'm happy being on the bottom right now.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

And, Paula, you got the top 50,001.

[Paula Pant]

I mean, there's a wide range. Like, the range is 50,001 through infinity, so I certainly have the bulk of the numerical system.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

All right, is user online getting a hundred bucks? Is Paula going to go two in a row? Doug, what's our answer, man?

[Doug]

Well, hey there, stackers. I'm human voltage meter, because I'll stick my fingers in anything. And guy who shockingly, isn't an electrician. Joe's mom's neighbor died.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Shockingly, it turned.

[Doug]

See what I did there? It turns out the Cadillac Motor company, weirdly enough, was named after French explorer Antoine de la Mothe Cadillac. He did a bunch of nothing, according to his mom, except created the incredibly badass city of Detroit in 1701. Though 2. Today, we're talking about the company formed just a few years later in Motown, Ford motor. Specifically their F150 Lightning electric truck, which took over the number one spot in the division earlier this year. So how many units did they sell in the first three months of 20? 25. What I can say is this. It was 42,088 units less than what Paula guessed, 42,000 less than what OG guessed, and just 14,087 less than what Jesse guessed, because the correct answer is 7,000, 913, meaning Jesse is getting closer to that lead. Wow.

[Paula Pant]

This is getting to be a close competition between the two of you. I'm liking this. I'm liking it.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Paul is like, I'm going to assume.

[Doug]

The spectator role, likes to watch.

[Jesse Kramer]

Doug, what was that French guy's middle name? I thought you said interesting, Interesting. Oh, mot. Okay, got it, got it, got it. I was hearing muff. Muff is what I was hearing.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Congratulations, Jesse, now at nine and a half points.

[Paula Pant]

Wow.

[OG]

There we go.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Almost striking distance, almost coming down the home stretch.

[Jesse Kramer]

Things are tight.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

We got four and a half months to go, so we shall see. But let's get back to our original game, which this time is called in or Out. We're going to shift our focus now from our Monday topic, which was when Tim Semro, attorney Tim Semro, joined us and we asked him estate planning questions to when Adam Nash, CEO of Daffy, was here. And let's talk about charitable giving. Oh, gee, I don't think we started with you last time, so we're going to start with you, og Are you in or out? Anonymous giving should be avoided, so others are encouraged to give. You know how you always see those given anonymously, Are you in or out? That that should be avoided?

[OG]

Well, how vain are you?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I think the point here is if people see that you gave, they're more likely to give, right?

[OG]

But generally speaking, the anonymous gifts aren't the hundred dollar ones, they're the hundred thousand dollars ones, right? I mean, I know that there are some, but I would venture to say proportionately the anonymous ones are the ones with commas and lots of zeros, not necessarily the ones that don't have commas and very few zeros. So if you're trying to influence other people, I think it's totally fine to not be anonymous. I don't know if that was your question or not. I know that in the charitable donation world, foundations and the like, let's say that it's a specific organization. Like maybe it's the using Ford as an example. Maybe Ford has a charitable arm or something, right? One of the things that makes them attractive from a charitable standpoint for other places to give money to Ford is the percentage of employees who give to the Ford Charitable Foundation. So if there was one, I'm just making that up. Or the Harvard one, or, you know, insert whatever group here. One of the questions that third party donors would ask a charitable foundation or a charitable fund is what percent of your own people are doing this? You want that number to be really high. So if you give anonymously, they can't track that. You know, all of the third graders, parents contributed to the school fund. They just know that some People gave some money. So it is important from a charitable fund standpoint to make your donation public. Now, what you could choose to do is actually do both. Let's say that you are one of those people that are fortunate to be able to donate a bunch of money to whatever, but you don't have the vanity attached to it. Why don't you give $500 so that everybody can see that you donated and $49,500 anonymously and you still do what you want to do without having to draw the attention of like, well, Joe's family must be doing good. Look at how much money they just gave the symphony.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

So just given the question as written here, Anonymous giving should be avoided so others are encouraged to give. It sounds like you're out.

[OG]

Anonymous Give. There's so many negatives in this that.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Should be avoided should be avoided.

[OG]

So you definitely shouldn't do it.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

You're saying go ahead and give. Go ahead and give anonymously if you want, which would mean you're out. It should be avoided.

[OG]

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that you should give money publicly, but a smaller amount.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

So the answer is.

[OG]

So you could check the box that says you're in. You know, the electrical department At Ford has 100% participation and that's.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Do you agree with this statement then? Anonymous giving should be avoided.

[OG]

Yes.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Yes, he is in.

[OG]

Asterisk. Unless you have a whole bunch of money you want to give away and don't want to let everybody know that.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

You'Re rich, it's the asterisk that are the fun part of this for me. But I get it, Paula. Anonymous Giving should be avoided so others are encouraged to give. You in or out?

[Paula Pant]

I am out. I'm out on this one. Oh, I think giving is giving. Giving is giving is giving. And whatever can happen to encourage people to give should absolutely be encouraged. If Anonymous Giving is the thing that encourages you to give, to give more, to give greater volumes of money, or to give with more frequency, greater frequency. Anything that encourages giving, I'm in for.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Jesse, how about you?

[Jesse Kramer]

Yeah, I'm of the mind that just give. Like, I've got a little bit of a who cares? Like, who cares? Give how you want to give. If you want to give anonymously to shield your identity, to prevent other people knowing from your asset base, great, that's fine. If you want to give so that you can see your name on a brick or you can see your name on a building because you like og started with, you know, how Vain?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Are you?

[Jesse Kramer]

I mean, to some extent, it's like, right, if you want to see your name up there or you want your heirs to see your name up there, fine, go. Go right ahead. I'm not really sure I have a preference. And I don't know enough to know if there's that psychological proof that by you attaching your name to something, you're going to influence more people to do it. I mean, around here, if I donated a big sum of money and said, Jesse Kramer made this donation, I bet you it would drive other donors away. So I'm not sure. I'm not sure that benefit is there. So I don't know if that makes me in or out. Joe, you. You might have to tell me with the whole, does that make me in or out?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

That makes you out, because. No, wait a minute. You should avoid anonymous giving. The answer is you're out on that.

[OG]

So many negatives.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

You're out. Paul is out. Oh, Jesus.

[Paula Pant]

This is a confusing double negative. So you're out.

[OG]

Sure. Not gonna do it.

[Paula Pant]

You're out that it should be avoided. So you're in that it shouldn't be.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Not all you got to do, Paula, is just listen to the question and say, do I agree with that? You should avoid anonymous giving. Are you in or out? You should avoid anonymous giving.

[Paula Pant]

I am out.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Yes, you are out, and. Oh, geez. In.

[OG]

And I'm gonna say yes or no from now on. Right?

[Jesse Kramer]

I'm trying to think of the opposites, too. If the statement was you should give anonymously, I would be out because I don't care how you give.

[OG]

You would say no.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I think Dan online hanging out with us on YouTube, sums it up perfectly. He says he's not not in. Exactly. All right, question number two. Coming down the home stretch here, Paula. Are you in or out? You should give during your lifetime. In. Still waiting until you die.

[Paula Pant]

I mean, my answer is you should do both. So I guess strictly speaking, I am in, because the question does not say you should only give during your lifetime.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Let's say you're choosing just one asset today, and you have to choose, do I give it now or do I wait till later? Which one's your preference?

[Paula Pant]

I'd rather give during my lifetime.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Okay.

[Paula Pant]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

So the answer is, you're in.

[Paula Pant]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Jesse, how about you?

[Jesse Kramer]

Yeah, I'm in. For reasons of. Just anecdotes that I've heard and, you know, stuff that I've heard from my audience or people I talk with, and even for some personal reasons of, like, inter you know, within my family, where I've seen that a good amount of joy comes from giving away some of your assets during life and seeing your heirs put them to use. I think that's a die with zero concept that, you know, it's not like Bill Perkins invented it, but I think it's a seminal part of his message. Even something as simple as, like, a little personal anecdote is that my brothers and I went on a hike a couple weekends ago, and our dad was kind of asking us some of the details, you know, where. Where are you staying and how are you doing this? And it was a really frugal hike because we got, you know, a friend gave us free accommodations and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, yeah, it's going to be like a few hundred bucks. It's going to be gas and groceries and that's it. And my dad was like, I. I'll pay for it. I'll pay for it. Like, it's a family trip. You boys are going to spend family time. And I could tell in his kind of stoic way, I think it brought him satisfaction to give some money away to us. Even in those simple, simple ways. I think giving it away while you're alive is on net better than giving it away after you die.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Dividend is commenting. This segment's stressing me out.

[Paula Pant]

It's not stressing him in.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

That's right. He is out. I'm being stressed in. OG give during your lifetime.

[OG]

Yeah, I mean, if you're in both circumstances, if you're thinking about it from the context of some charitable organization or something like that, and. Or if you're thinking about it from the perspective of I'm forecast to have an estate of $4 million when I'm 100 years old, and that's going to go to my kids, well, maybe they'd be, you know, have greater utility out of it at 40 with 250k right now, and you die with an estate of 2.5 million instead of 4, because you, you know, we're able to help them buy a house or something like that instead. So, yeah, I would, I would say in both circumstances.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Yeah, Diva Dro makes a nice comment here. Inheritance to 65, not worth much. Maybe better when people are younger, I think is kind of the point there. And, Jesse, I agree with something that you said earlier, which is also there's this joy in you seeing them use it. I mean, you can get joy during your lifetime watching people make good use of money that you're not going to spend or maybe, you know, do something together with it. I don't know. All right, last person who has it gone first this round. I think we had Paula go first, OG went first. I think Jesse, that does leave you last question for today's show and that is this. I know we had Adam on on Wednesday, but I want to get your take on this. Are you in or out? You should use a donor advice fund to manage your giving. Are you in or out?

[Jesse Kramer]

Oh, Joe. Black and white, huh? Very black and white. I'm gonna say out. And the reason why is because I think that answer applies to the most people out there who give charitably. I'm on the board of a nonprofit and I know, at least for us, the overwhelming majority of our individual donations are the 50, $7500amounts. And if that's the amount that you're giving, even if you give $1,000 a year spread, you know, $100 at a time to 10 different organizations, I'm pretty sure that's too small to get any sort of benefit from the use of a donor advised fund. It's only when you get into much, much bigger numbers in terms of donations and you know, you've got appreciated stock going in and out like that. Those are the situations where I think donor advisements start to make more sense. Happy to be wrong on that by the way. But based on that understanding, I am out on your statement.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

OG, how about you? You should use a donor advised fund to manage your giving.

[OG]

Well, I'm just glad that Jesse's happy to be wrong because he's wrong.

[Jesse Kramer]

Please tell me, educate me.

[OG]

I mean the reality is that it's so much, you know, back up 10 years or even five years ago and yeah, it's like unnecessary. But now, honestly, if you have any non qualified money in your net worth, any sort of position, you've got a mutual fund, an etf, a stock, you have, any of that, you should always give that to your donor advised fund and put cash into your brokerage account. That would be equal to your donation. So in Jesse, in your case, you say, well, it's a thousand bucks and I was going to split it up 100 different ways or 10 different ways. It's just not worth it. I would say it is worth it. You have to earn 1200 bucks to donate 1000. Or you can take $1000 out of your brokerage account and not pay any taxes on that, put it into your donor advised fund and donate it as you see fit and secondarily as you get to that spot, first of all, you're building that muscle. But as you get to the spot where sometimes those donations add up and maybe you're able to pull forward a bunch of stuff in one year and that sort of thing, you have one line item on your taxes. The donation occurs from a tax standpoint when you put it in the donor advice fund, not when you send it to the Girl Scouts, into the Boy Scouts, into whatever. Like that's just a secondary thing. So if you say, oh, you know, every month I'm going to take $100 out of my brokerage account of my most highly appreciated thing that month and put it in my donor advised fund at the end of the year you get one statement that says you put a thousand bucks here. Done. Now, I know $1,000 doesn't get you anything on your tax return right now, but a, it might someday in the future. And nevertheless, it's just super easy to, super easy to keep track of. So yeah, you should never donate cash. If you have a brokerage account, you should never donate cash to anything.

[Jesse Kramer]

I think I agree with everything you just said. It's just a matter of I don't think most people have a taxable brokerage account and I don't think most people ever donate would ever put enough money into a donor advised fund to itemize that year's tax bill. If we're talking about stackers, people who are self selecting to listen to finance podcasts, you're probably right, that is different. And if we're talking about the people out there who have highly appreciated assets to put into a donor advised fund, of course that changes the conversation.

[OG]

I just think, you know, it goes back to donate during your life or later, you can make a bigger impact, especially if you're young and not really deciding what's super important to you yet, you know, what's, what's become important to me in my late 40s, is a lot different than even just 10 years ago and is certainly a lot different than my perspective on things in my 20s. And if I would have continued the same contribution level, if it's a percentage number or if it's a dollar amount, just said, okay, I'm not entirely sure what I want to do with this yet, but I know I want to build the muscle of giving. And so I'm going to, I'm always going to put 3% of my income in my donor advised fund. That money sits there and it grows, it does its thing and then I can make a large donation to a thing that really matters to me later on. So I think it's just a good place, especially because it's easier to manage now. It's super low cost. I know that there's a cost at Schwab and Fidelity, but it's still low ish cost. It's just a good bucket to have one line item that goes, this is my charitable money. And then when you find something that excites you, you just go online, you type it in, they mail a check, and off you go.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Paul, let's bring you into this. You should use the donor advice fund to manage your giving or you in or out?

[Paula Pant]

I am in. So I am in for all of the reasons that Og just said. And in addition to that, the two other points that I want to make. One is that you, you can give away very small amounts. One of the people in chat was it. Yeah, Phylighter in chat said the donor advised fund at fidelity allows for $50 grants. My donor advice fund is at Schwab and, and I don't know if they have a specific minimum, but I know that in the past I have given away like a hundred bucks, 200 bucks out of there, and that's not been a problem. So even giving very, very small amounts, you can easily do it from a donor advised fund. So A, there's all of the reasons that OG just said, but B, I think one of the other biggest reasons for me is just from a budgeting perspective and like from a mental bucketing perspective, having a singular bucket of money that mentally and literally you can say this is my charitable giving money. It just makes the budgeting element and the bucketing element so much easier.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I agree with everything both you, Paula and Og said. And obviously we had Adam on the show on Wednesday from Daffy doing a deep dive on how these things work. And so I love the idea of them, but I'm going to, we're going to go 2 and 2, 2 ins and 2 outs. Because Jesse, I'm with you, but for a different reason. And the reason is knowing a lot of people who run these wonderful organizations that need support. And this, Jesse, you, you brought up a little bit of this. There is so much money sitting in donor advised funds that is yet ungiven. And I think the fact, OG, about what you said about the fact that we get the tax break when we put the money in and then actually giving the money as a separate thing later when something excites me, well, the bad news is I feel like we go after the tax break and then we just sit on it because there's in 2023, which is the most recent data that I have, $54.77 billion billion dollars sitting in donor advised funds that haven't been given yet to any charitable organization. And when you talk to these heads of these great organizations like we need help now and people are just sitting on huge sums of money, some people not making a decision because all they're in it for is, is the tax break. So while I agree with everything and we'll see both, both OG's and Paula's points, if you could have a donor advised fund and make sure the money gets given, great, do that. But the amount that's sitting in these things is really not helping. I think what it was intended to help. Interesting thing to me, donor advised funds. Let's end this show with finding out what amazing stuff you guys are all doing. By the way, I want to thank everyone on YouTube hanging out with us for the exciting chat today. You guys really showed up. Nice, nice work. And thanks to our contributors for a fantastic end to our charitable giving and estate planning week. You know what's funny, Doug, is that you plan a week like this and, and it just sounds like such a snoozer. Estate planning and charitable giving, and yet the community always shows up and everybody's so happy to chat about this stuff. It really was a great week and hopefully we give to a lot of great organizations and get our estate plan done. Damn it. But after you're done, or maybe before you're done with your estate plan, you can hit pause and find out what's going on in the Afford Anything show. What's going on?

[Paula Pant]

Afford Anything, Paula, on the Afford Anything podcast, we have an interview with Lori Rosenkopf. She's a professor of management at Wharton and she talks about all of the various forms of entrepreneurship. So there are people who are bootstrappers, There are people who are trying to develop, you know, the unicorn. There are people who are funders. There are all of these different varieties of entrepreneurs, different flavors. Black marketers walks through that framework.

[Doug]

Marketer, I mean, it's real.

[Paula Pant]

I don't.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Did black marketers make her list, Paula?

[Paula Pant]

The what? Marketers.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Black market. You know, the black market.

[Paula Pant]

Ah. Oh, yeah. Like the underground.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Yes.

[Paula Pant]

Yeah, yeah, yes. No, no. I believe that she was only discussing legal types of missing out.

[Doug]

You're missing out on a very lucrative avenue, strongly considered, especially, Doug, if your.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Favorite color is orange, it's fantastic. But entrepreneurship showing up front and center at the Afford Anything podcast.

[Paula Pant]

Yes, yes. That's with Lori Rosenkopf.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Lori Rosenkopf. Oh gee, what are you doing this fine mid August weekend?

[OG]

Is that this weekend or next weekend?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

This is the 22nd.

[OG]

Oh, well, in that case, I have already dropped my kid off at college. So we are down to two to go. But who's counting?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Spoken with so much empathy and heart. Jesse Kramer, what's going on at the Personal Finance for Long Term Investors podcast?

[Jesse Kramer]

Well, I feel like I might have to publish a ask me anything episode with donor advised funds. I'm still seeing some great comments coming here through the live stream chat and it's a little gray. It's a little gray. I've got an episode coming up. Speaking of random ramblings like the one I just went on, I've got an episode coming up and the working title is Jesse's Random Ramblings. But long story short, I talk about some controversial and or contrarian takes that I have from the personal finance and financial planning and investing world. So that'll be a fun episode.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Stuff that you're out on.

[Jesse Kramer]

Yeah, exactly. That's exactly right. What a segue.

[OG]

Joe.

[Jesse Kramer]

You've been doing this for a while, huh?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I'm a veteran. I'm the veteran quarterback of this podcast.

[Jesse Kramer]

You're the power bottom of this podcast. That's right.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I did say power bottom. I've go with veteran quarterback, but your. Your terminology may differ. All right everybody, thanks a lot for hanging out. If you know somebody who is thinking about how do I gift better or how do I set up my estate plan, maybe they need to set up their estate plan. Go back to Monday's show with Tim Semro or Wednesday show with Adam Nash or today's in or Out. Refer this week to him because I think we just wrapped up a great week on those topics. But the way we wrap it up officially is with Doug telling us what are the things that are on our to do list today.

[Doug]

Well, Joe, first, take some advice from Jesse. Uneven is not the same as unfair. Look, if you want to give less to one of your sons because he had bad aim in the bathroom, look, that's up to you. Second, don't forget what OG said about giving while you're alive. You should not not do it if you don't want to see people not be happy. I think that's what he said. But the big lesson, Forget a will. I'm leaving my estate to the guy who can beat me at Mario Kart. Good luck, kids. Thanks to the Jesse Grammer for joining us today. You'll find the Personal Finance for Long Term Investors podcast wherever you're listening to us now. Literally. Oh, you're at the grocery store. It's next to the giant tub of bean dip. You're at Home Depot. It's an ice aisle 5 just below the big knockers.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

What?

[Doug]

The door knockers? You confused? Don't worry, it's always on the device that you're listening to right now, no matter what aisle you're in. You know what? We'll also include links in our show [e-mail] I really wanted to say speaking of big knockers, but I probably shouldn't say that. Can I say that I want to say say it. I still want to say it.

[Paula Pant]

Go for it.

[Doug]

Speaking of big door knockers, thanks to Paula Pan for hanging out with us today. You'll find her fabulous podcast Afford Anything wherever you listen to finder podcasts. I did it.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I said it. Oh God.

[Doug]

Thanks also to OG for joining us today. Looking for good financial planning help, head to stacking benjamin's.com OG for his calendar. This show is the property of SP Podcast, LLC, Copyright 2025 and is created by Josal Sehive. Joe gets help from a few of our neighborhood friends. You'll find out about our awesome [e-mail] along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello. Oh yeah. And before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don't take advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and we'll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show.