How to Afford Life Without Living Like a Monk (SB1794)

Summary

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The Stacking Benjamins Show

Episode SB1794: "How to Afford Life Without Living Like a Monk"

Date: January 23, 2026
Guests:

• Joe Saul-Sehy (Host)
• Paula Pant (Afford Anything)
• Jesse Kramer (Personal Finance for Long Term Investors)
• Justin Brown Woods (Price of Avocado Toast)

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Overview

This episode of Stacking Benjamins tackles the pressing issue of affordability in 2026, exploring how to enjoy life and reach your financial goals without resorting to ascetic, "monk-like" living. The hosts and guests bring their trademark fun, approachable tone to discuss actionable strategies, psychological tricks, and lifestyle shifts to help listeners afford the "new normal"—even as inflation and expenses keep rising.

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Key Topics & Insights

1. Dining Out and Food Spending

[11:01 - 16:41]

• Main idea: Food is one of the "big three" expenses (alongside housing and transportation) where most people have a surprising amount of control.
• Paula Pant: Emphasizes the outsized impact of eating out, including delivery or takeout, versus home cooking. She distinguishes between “recreational” dining out (for joy and memories) and “convenience” dining out (due to lack of planning), recommending people target the latter:

  “The eating that is conscious and thoughtful and you have the joy of anticipation is very different than the eating that you do because it’s 7:30pm, you’re hungry, you haven’t thought about what to make for dinner, and the easiest thing to do is just open up Uber Eats.” – Paula [12:09]

• Justin Brown Woods: He and his wife cut their $700/month restaurant habit to zero while paying down debt – and discovered family meals at home were more fulfilling:

  “It created this nightly routine of sitting around the table as a family... we ask, ‘what was your favorite part of the day?’... It’s become this really meaningful part of our family.” – Justin [13:38]

• Jesse Kramer: Agrees that eating out should be a special treat.
• Takeaway: Examine your dining out habits, focus on value not deprivation.

2. Make Variable Expenses Predictable

[17:30 - 18:51]

• Justin: Advocates turning variable bills into fixed, predictable ones via programs like "budget billing" for utilities or structured meal planning.

  “Anytime you can get a variable expense and make it a fixed expense, that's going to help you with affordability because it's predictable. It brings that chaos meter down.” – Justin [18:21]

• Joe: Highlights that reducing the unpredictability (chaos) in bills can reduce stress that leads to further “coping” spending.

3. “Just Fix Something” to Build Momentum

[20:52 - 23:44]

• Joe: Notes that simply taking an action—correcting even a $6 overcharge—can shift your mindset from powerless to proactive.
• Paula: Shares her $5.99 shipping story as an example; even the tiniest fix reinforces your identity as someone who manages their money:

  “Does it remind me that I am the type of person who is conscientious about her bills? Yes... fixing something, even if it’s $6, does remind you that you’re the type of person who does that, and that becomes a motivating factor.” – Paula [22:51]

4. Taming the Subscriptions Hydra

[23:49 - 29:32]

• Jesse: Warns about the explosion of recurring subscription models (“$17/month forever”). Suggests delaying the decision or limiting to one streaming service at a time.

  “Delay decisions that create permanent and recurring expenses.” – Jesse [24:00]

• Justin: Finds overlooked subscriptions are top of the list when helping clients find extra money. He recommends a full review:

  “The amount of subscriptions is just wild… let’s examine that for a sec… are they really bringing value?” – Justin [25:15]

• Joe: Shares how “subscription cycling” (binging one service at a time) saved his cousin plenty.
• Paula: Reminds, “The real question is, are you using it?” It’s okay to pay for value, but prune unused or unnecessary recurring charges.

5. Building Affordability Through Self-Awareness

[42:01 - 43:43]

• Justin: Suggests tracking your psychological “triggers”—stressful moments, specific times, or routines that lead to impulse spending.

  “Recognize when triggers show up for you and steer away from those moments… That impulse spend is where people get thrown off.” – Justin [42:55]

• Joe: Adds, try observing your urges without acting for two minutes. “Surf the wave”—the craving often passes.

6. The Big One: Housing

[47:01 - 50:14]

• Paula: Recommends considering a move to a less expensive home—not just rent/mortgage, but all “downstream” costs: utilities, taxes, maintenance. Shares a personal story of buying a triplex with roommates to drive housing costs to zero.
• Justin: Many clients save substantial amounts by “right-sizing” their housing, even if it means moving or renting after owning.

7. Rethinking Financial “Necessities”

[54:28 - 59:27]

• Jesse: Encourages listeners to “rethink what’s mandatory and avoid paying for status you don’t actually care about,” using cell phone plans as a prime example.
• All: Discuss trade-offs of top-end phones and expensive plans vs. alternatives (family plans, discount carriers). It’s about honesty:

  “Is an iPhone 17 [really] mandatory for me to live a fulfilling life?” – Jesse [54:28]

• Paula: Has used discount cell phone provider Mint for 6+ years and sees no loss in quality.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On fixed costs and unpredictability

  “If you can remove that chaos, things start to feel more affordable.” – Justin [18:35]

• On behavioral finance

  “From a behavioral lens, does [correcting a $6 error] remind me that I am the type of person who is conscientious about her bills? Yes.” – Paula [22:51]

• On subscriptions

  “Their business model is predicated on people being members and not using the service.” – Jesse (on gyms) [26:43]

• On housing

  “Making that move has an enormous upfront cost… but it alters so many downstream expenses.” – Paula [47:19]

• On impulse spending triggers

  “It’s that idea of just holding up a mirror to yourself… and spiral less.” – Justin [43:10]

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Episode Structure & Timestamps

• Dining out and food spending: [11:01 – 16:41]
• Predictable (fixed) expenses: [17:30 – 18:51]
• Taking first steps/fixing small things: [20:52 – 23:44]
• Subscriptions audit: [23:49 – 29:32]
• Discussion on values-based spending: [29:14 – 29:52]
• Classic Stacking Benjamins trivia segment: [30:51 – 41:39]
• Impulse triggers & 'noticing’ habits: [42:01 – 43:43]
• Cutting housing costs: [47:01 – 50:14]
• Mandatory spending & lifestyle inflation: [54:28 – 59:27]

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Actionable Takeaways

• Audit your dining out and delivery habits—save big by flagging “convenience” splurges.
• Where possible, convert variable bills to fixed, predictable amounts—reduce stress & chaos.
• Fix something, anything; taking bold action (no matter how small) builds agency and momentum.
• Review and prune subscriptions aggressively—don't pay for what you don’t use.
• Notice personal spending triggers. “Surf the urge” and break the cycle.
• Don’t be afraid to “right-size” your housing, even if it means a big change.
• Challenge what’s truly “necessary”—phones, “status” items, plans, memberships.

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Fun & Tone

• This episode stays true to Stacking Benjamins' “fun + functional” blend—quick banter, self-deprecating humor (see Paula’s “Afford Anything abbreviates to AA” joke [47:08]), and lots of lived experience.
• Listeners are repeatedly encouraged to focus on value and intent, not deprivation—“you don’t have to live like a monk.”

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Where to Find More:

• Justin Brown Woods: @priceofavocadotoast (Instagram, TikTok); Price of Avocado Toast podcast (hiatus, but evergreen episodes) [60:27]
• Jesse Kramer: Personal Finance for Long Term Investors blog & podcast [61:11]
• Paula Pant: Afford Anything podcast [62:36]

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Final Wisdom

“If you don’t make changes to the things you’re thinking about right now and you let it go for two days, you’re probably not going to do anything.” – Joe Saul-Sehy [59:47]

Pause. Act. Start fixing your affordability leaks—today.

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Show summary by Stacking Benjamins Podcast Summaries.

Transcript

[A]

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I've got a four bedroom house and a great community like my car.

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It's new.

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I even belong to the local golf club.

[A]

How do I do it? I'm in debt up to my eyeballs.

[D]

Live from the basement of the YouTube headquarters, it's the Stacking Benjamin Show. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and you've heard politicians talking about it. Heck, your neighbor's talking about it. So is that loudmouth nexie at the Sizzler. Everyone is talking about affordability while Washington dabbles in changing laws and your state looks at ways to make life easier. Let's get to the root of the issue. How do you afford the new normal? But that's not all. Today I swoop in with week two of this year's trivia challenge. Can team OG Increase their week one lead? Can Paula learn to stop trusting her gut and finally win one? You'll find out halfway through today's show. And now, a guy who just mentioned that due to inflation, the show is now only 55 minutes long instead of 60. Joe. I think the kids call that shrinkflation. It's Joe Saul. See?

[A]

Hi. Hey there, snackers. I feel shrinkflation every time I get in a cold swimming pool. Welcome back to the Stacking Benjamin Show. I am Joe Saul Sehi. We are ready to kick off your weekend with another phenomenal, phenomenal Friday show. And let's introduce to you. Well, first of all, let's say hi to the man with the plan who just completed the most brilliant open ever. Mom's neighbor Doug is here.

[D]

How are you, man? That was it. That was my peak. That was the most brilliant ever.

[A]

You want to give your retirement speech now? Is that it?

[D]

I'm out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He's like, see you later, peeps. That's good.

[D]

See you, folks.

[A]

It must be cold in your half of the basement because it looks like you've got on a winter coat right now.

[D]

Well, it's a fleece shirt and it Is just so snuggly and nice. It's my favorite shirt in the wintertime. It's a little chilly.

[A]

The guy who must be freezing where he is at Rochester, New York, because behind him it is all snow all the time. Jesse Kramer's here. Man, it is a winter wonderland there.

[E]

It's snowing hard right now. I was just out getting a chipotle bowl, which I'm sure we'll talk about later in terms of expenses, and it was snowing pretty hard.

[A]

We're going to talk, obviously, for people that read what we're talking about. Affordability, Is that going to be part of your weight loss plan, eating chipotle? Like, you don't have to hire a diet coach. You just.

[E]

Is chipotle healthy or not? That's the thing. Okay, there's a poll question for the audience. Do you consider chipotle to be healthy food or not healthy food?

[A]

Well, we're about to find out. We can ask somebody, though. How about if we go to New York to ask somebody? Works for me, because Paula Pant, I'm sure, could weigh in on that. Paula, is chipotle healthy food?

[B]

Well, it depends on what you put in the chipotle bowl. Like, you could theoretically have a chipotle bowl of just cheese and sour cream, which.

[A]

What's not healthy about that?

[B]

I mean, you would certainly have a lot of calcium, so it would fortify your bones.

[A]

It's like that old real men of genius commercial about the taco salad, about, hey, it's cheese, meat, and a sour cream. Like, but it's called a salad. They wouldn't call it a salad if.

[D]

It was a deep fried bowl.

[B]

Exactly. So, yeah, it's all about what's in the bowl.

[A]

For people that are new to the show, they may not know that Paula saves money. She makes life affordable by just podcasting from anywhere. Where the hell are you, Paula?

[B]

There's this floor in my building that has a gym on one side and then a co working space on the other side. So I'm on the co working space side of the gym.

[A]

They have like a pool hall.

[B]

Yes. That also exists. This is New York. Everything abuts everything. Everything is adjacent to everything.

[A]

That literally is Doug. A pool hall. Did you hear that?

[D]

I heard that. Yeah.

[A]

It's incredible.

[D]

Is there going to be a fight later?

[B]

There could be.

[A]

We're going to set up a gofundme account for Paula Pant if you can help her aff of space to record Stacky Benjamin's. That is maybe slightly more private.

[B]

I checked the schedule. There shouldn't be a workout class behind me during this entire recording.

[E]

There won't be.

[B]

There won't be. Because otherwise that would just be a very distracting backdrop.

[A]

Good. Well, Paula's gonna win 10 or 20 bucks shooting pool with everybody during today's show, so she might not be here for all of it. But guess what, guys, we got a very special guest today. Oh, Gee is in. Is in the Caribbean, which, Doug, I know it sucks to be here.

[D]

I was so hoping you were going to finish that sentence as you were pausing with, oh, Gee is in. OG is in prison. And no, you were finally free.

[A]

No, but it gives us the opportunity to have a fantastic guest. This guy I have a very parasocial relationship with because I watch all of his stuff on Instagram, I watch him on Tick Tock. And you know what's fun? I don't know why the hell we've never had him on the show, but from the price of avocado toast, Justin Brown woods is here. How are you, man?

[C]

I'm feeling great. I feel so honored that, you know, my stuff, my content has hit your algorithm.

[A]

It is good because, you know, we're talking affordability partly because you're here, but you're the guy that has to help people kind of work through their money problems. And you see this all the time. People want to blame everybody else, Justin, but whether it's true or not, sometimes it is true that it's somebody else's fault. You're still a person that's got to go clean it up.

[C]

Yeah. And that's one of the things I think I have to dance with a lot as a financial counselor is helping folks recognize maybe some of the systemic issues they might be confronting or some of the past money stuff. And then also, yeah, this idea of, like, we got to take accountability ourselves as well, and we got to find what we can do to kind of change our own household or our own kind of financial picture.

[A]

Some of our stackers might recognize you because of the fact that you had an award winning podcast for a long time, the Price of Avocado Toast, but you let it go. I was so sad. Why did you stop?

[C]

We're on a hiatus right now. My lovely wife is a surrogate for another family, so she's having a baby for another family. And in the process of that, my gosh, there's a doctor's appointment just about every week between blood draws and uterus checks and flying down to clinics in LA to check everything. So we're on Pause right now until she's fully, like, pregnant with baby. So, yeah, just a short break, Doug.

[A]

By the way, Justin always eats like he's eating for two. So I'm very aware with the whole pregnancy thing.

[D]

I gotta say, Justin, uterus checks was not on my bingo card today. So that, that definitely took me by surprise. Thanks for dropping that nugget.

[C]

Yeah, absolutely. I'm hoping it's part of the trivia later. I'm gonna nail it. If so.

[A]

Well, we can neither confirm nor deny whether uterus checks are gonna make it to that part of the show. But we got a fantastic topic today, everybody. We're gonna talk about how do you afford 2026? Prices up. The government's talking about all the things they're going to do. I mean, we're talking about credit card companies and capping interest rates. We're talking about letting people take money out of their 401k so they can do their home down payment. We're talking about all these affordability solutions. What are some good affordability solutions? I don't really think taking money out of your 401k to use as a home down payment is a great solution to anything. I think you're just borrowing from the future. For today, we're going to ask our panel their favorite spots, but we've got a few sponsors help us keep on keeping on. So we're going to hear from them first and then Justin, Paula, and Jesse are going to dive into helping us make life more affordable the rest of the year. Like the mechanic with his car, I waited too long to get life insurance. Luckily, nothing happened to me. But of course, on stacking Benjamin's over the years and even during my financial planning years, that's not always the case. And I can't tell you how good I felt when I finally realized that if something happened to me that my family, my kids, my spouse fully covered. And what was shocking to me was how easy the process was. And this is back then, right? This is this, this is a long time ago. And now it's even easier today. Ethos makes getting life insurance super fast and easy. It's all 100% online. Didn't have that before. Get a quote in seconds. That didn't happen. Apply in minutes. Also, I had pages and pages. Not the case anymore. And you get same day coverage. No medical exam. You just answer a few simple health questions. You get up to $3 million in coverage. Some policies are as low as $30 a month. And as of March 2025, Business Insider named Ethos, the number one no medical exam, instant life insurance provider. And Ethos says 4.08 out of 5 stars on Trustpilot. There's over 3,000 reviews. Protect your family with life insurance from Ethos. Now by going to ethos.comsb you tell them that we sent you. That way, ethos.comsb in as little as 10 minutes, you can get your free quote and up to $3 million in [e-mail] that's ethos.comsb application times and rates may vary.

[E]

Get ready for the Rush with Max Crosby. It's time.

[D]

Don't miss the behind the scenes moments.

[E]

Everyone'S talking about, regardless of what they say.

[A]

I'll take the fine. I don't care.

[E]

All pro defensive end Max Crosby takes.

[D]

You beyond the field with exclusive insights.

[A]

I could say this because I played them.

[E]

This is the Rush.

[A]

You guys already know what time it is.

[B]

It was fire.

[A]

And we'll be right back on the pod and we'll be talking about it next week.

[D]

The Rush with Max Crosby.

[A]

Follow and listen on your favorite platform. All right, let's jump into this topic. Usually at this point in the show I go, hey, today's topic is from this particular article. I don't have an article except for all of these affordability things that the government's doing. But Paula, forget the government. Right? What does Paula Pant say that our average afforder can do to maybe make things more affordable in 2026? What's a good step?

[B]

So I know this is cliche, but it's cliche because it's true. The amount that people often spend on dining out on delivery, doordash, grubhub, restaurant dining, anything that's not just buying groceries and preparing food at home, it's a lot more effort to get rid of major fixed costs such as housing or moving to a smaller home or selling your car. But tackling food, which is one of the three biggest expenses, housing, transportation and food, tackling the food portion because that's something that you do on a weekly basis or daily basis is something that's both immediate and has less of a hassle factor than housing and transportation.

[A]

But Paula, I guess what I find frustrating about that one, I mean, because yes, there's a lot of money that we waste on going out to eat. And I also think of our old friend Greg McFarlane who said, you know, you don't even have to not go out to eat. If you want to go out to eat, just stop buying alcohol at the restaurant.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because alcohol at the restaurant could be a bunch of money. But what if that's the most fun thing in our life? Like, what if we're solving for more fun and going to restaurants is more fun? We don't want to drop it if that's the case, do we?

[B]

Right, right. I agree. I think there's a big distinction between convenience eating versus recreational. Like the eating that is conscious and thoughtful and you have the joy of anticipation is very different than the eating that you do. Because it's 7:30pm, you're hungry, you haven't thought about what to make for dinner, and the easiest thing to do is just open up Uber Eats.

[A]

Justin, I know you and your lovely spouse, you guys had to find your way out of a bunch of debt like I did and a lot of our stackers maybe did. Was changing restaurant habits one of the things on your bingo card.

[C]

Oh yeah. We look back to that time we were spending about $700 a month for just the two of us to dine out. And that was in 2019 when we started kind of budgeting and expense tracking.

[A]

Got so imagine that today, by the way.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, it would just be wild. And we cut it to zero. When we started our debt free journey, it was like, hey, we're going to start cooking at home. And a really cool byproduct actually was that we had just had our first baby and it created this nightly routine of sitting around the table as a family. And so when I'm working with clients and kind of saying similarly like, hey, let's stop this convenience eating, we can kind of look on the positive and say, what is this going to bring us instead? Instead of doordashing and sitting around the tv, we get to eat dinner as a family at the table. And it feels really good.

[A]

Well, this is interesting, Justin, because I asked Paula about sucking the fun out of life. And so originally it might have thought about sucking the fun out of life. Right. That this would have done it. But it actually sounds like it was equally fun or maybe more fun doing what was the replacement?

[C]

Yeah, absolutely. And it's become a really great thing for our family. We have dinner around the table every single night with my kids that are 6, 4 and 2. We ask everybody, what was your favorite part of the day? And you know, my toddler kind of stumbles through the question and we all giggle and it's, it's really fun. And so it's become this really meaningful part of our family. All because we realized, hey, $700 a month for two people is too damn much.

[A]

Paula, do you like cooking?

[B]

I love cooking. I was thinking about this the other day. There are some people who have hobbies with, like woodworking or welding or knitting. I don't have any other hobby that's tactile other than cooking. And so I think cooking is a really fun, like, hands on, creative. In this digital age, if you spend your entire day sitting at a computer, it's fun to actually create something, shape something with your hands. So that's what I enjoy about it.

[A]

That's funny. I think it's the same for me. And the other thing I like about cooking is it takes me out of my day if I've had a stressful day. There's nothing that takes you out of that stress more than a sharp knife, like a shark. I just, I cannot think, think about it anymore. I have to think about cutting, whatever.

[B]

The vegetable is more than a sharp knife. Your Honor, I'd like to enter that statement as evidence.

[A]

Jesse, tell me about your family's restaurant experience.

[E]

Yeah, I don't think we eat out too much or. I know I'm getting a lot of flack in the chat here. I see a lot of Chipotle calls in the chat because I admitted I got chipotle for lunch, $10 for a bowl, not that bad. And that's a lot of food. And it was convenient. I, I felt a little bit singled out, but I'll get over it. But I liked what you guys had to say about the, the tactile nature and kind of the joy of cooking. I enjoy cooking at home. And I think about. I thought you were going to say something else, Joe. I thought you were going to say, you know, you, you, you tenderize the meat, right? You know, you like a sharp knife to take out your stress. Joe, I thought you were going to talk about taking it out with that hammer, you know, kind of. You beat your meat not with a hammer, to use your hands.

[A]

You stop it.

[E]

Beat your meat.

[A]

Stop it.

[D]

What?

[A]

Stop it.

[C]

What?

[E]

That's what I do sometimes.

[A]

Just take it out.

[E]

Take it out.

[A]

Did you even answer my question? I like to get lost and uncomfortable.

[E]

During that, as one does.

[A]

But you don't think that eating at restaurants has been too big of an issue for your family?

[E]

No, that's definitely not an issue. I mean, it's a special treat, if anything, right? It's a special treat. We actually have pretty good data because we track what we spend. We have pretty good data on how we spend our money and the overwhelming majority of our grocery dollars Are spent on. Or food dollars, I should say, are spent on groceries that we then prepare at home.

[A]

Justin, I'm sure once you got that debt paid off, you started going to restaurants again. How do you go to restaurants now? Do you plan those days?

[C]

We do, yeah. We have to, right. With kids that are as young as mine are, otherwise it's a train wreck. And I'm sitting there looking around like, please don't judge me as a parent right now. But, yeah, you know, we started to kind of slowly introduce it, and then as the kids got older now it really becomes maybe once or twice a month, we'll pick up something like in and out out here on the west coast. Right. My kids like burgers and fries. We'll grab something like that. And it's. It's pretty easy. But I'm in that space where it's really hard to bring my kids out to dinner without them going off the seam. So maybe that's the thing for everybody. You want to afford dining out, have kids. So you can't.

[A]

We. I've never heard that. Have kids. It's the perfect money saver. Never said nobody ever. You know, it is funny, though, Justin, is that when my twins were young, we would go to a restaurant and I would order, and then we'd say, and can we just get to go boxes right now? And would go, why? I'm like, because these are time bombs and I have no idea when it's going to go off. So better that we're ready to pick up.

[C]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. I'm a twin as well, and I've got an older sister by about 22 months, raised by a single mom. And I think back to when we dined out, and I'm like, my gosh. I mean, we were like six and four going out. My mom's by herself. I'm like, thank God I have a wife who can kind of triage whatever the hell is happening with my kids.

[A]

Well, let's stick with you. My friend Paula brought up cut the restaurant budget, or at least examine the restaurant budget and is it worth it? Love that one, Paula. Justin, what's another way we can make life more affordable?

[C]

One of the things I like to chat with my clients about, which is kind of similar to Paula's point, is find a bill that you can fix. I think for many people, the issues of affordability come when there's chaotic moments of life. And so if you can find an expense that you can make from variable to fixed, that's going to feel a little bit Better out here on the west coast are electric provider is PG&E and they sometimes offer something like budget billing where you can get just a fixed cost yearly. So you know what, that bill is going to be monthly rather than the swings of the summer and the winter time. Things like meal planning, the food and dining out budget. Anytime you can get a variable expense and make it a fixed expense, that's going to help you with affordability because it's predictable and it brings that chaos meter down. It's going to kind of just regulate you a little bit with your finances.

[A]

It's so funny because I think Justin, a lot of people don't think about that because you truly, you don't really save any money over the 12 months. But you're saying just the fact that you know what that number's gonna be gets rid of some of the variability, which makes it easier.

[C]

Yeah. Cause I think that chaos of when that bill shows up and you didn't know what it was gonna be, there's tons of effects behind it. Right. Like okay, now I'm frustrated and pissed off and maybe I take that out on my partner and because of that nobody wants to cook and we're dining out. Or maybe that bill sits with me for a couple days and my self care budget now goes up because I want to go get an adjustment from the chiropractor because I'm so tense or frustrated. I think that chaos is what spikes all of these things. And so if we can remove that chaos, things start to feel more affordable.

[A]

That is interesting. I was watching a video about alcohol consumption too and it's that chaos and kind of the self medicating that is when you know, at the end of the day people just crack open a beer because the therapist isn't available. Which also, you know, besides being not great for my liver, ends up being an additional expense. I feel like that's the same with investing. I mean we're here to talk about affordability. But Jesse, you talk about investing a lot on your channel and I think that it's that chaos of I don't know whether it's going down tomorrow that makes us do dumb things when it comes to our investments as well.

[E]

I mean it certainly can be. You're just right that, that you know, maybe I could substitute a word in there for chaos of just uncertainty. Right. Like randomness, uncertainty, volatility. These words share a lot of things in common. And that uncertainty about what's next. And to some extent I think some of what Justin was just describing is like, well, at least I. If I can control this a little bit and make sure that this thing becomes certain, you know, I know I could always go to a restaurant. I might have to spend four times as much, but I know I can depend on that food. Someone else is going to cook it for me. I know it'll get the job done. Okay, maybe that's part of it. You just mentioned something, Joe. I was just reading poor Charlie's Almanac. The Charlie Munger book?

[A]

Yeah. Never heard of him.

[E]

One of his rules. One of his rules for life was never use a substance to alter your mood or alter your. He had another. There were two words, but they were related. It's basically like, you know, mood or. Or just, you know, make yourself feel better, to self medicate, you know, he was a guy who was like, if you're out there getting a drink because it just relaxes you at the end of the day, you know, he would say like, whoa, that's a problem. Now. Okay, maybe we don't have to agree with that, but I think there's something to be said for. We have to be a little bit cautious about what we choose to do in our life to remove that chaos or to alter our moods and make ourselves feel better. And. And some things are a little more slippery slope and dangerous than others.

[A]

At the risk of taking what might be one of your other points, guys. Paula, I want to bring up what I thought Justin was going to say when he said fix a bill, which he meant take it from variable to fixed. I like this idea of once you just go fix something, fix anything. You go from this feeling of powerless to powerful. You know what I mean? That once I just go, I send the body into motion and I start moving. And now I fix something in my budget. Doesn't matter what it is. If it's a little thing, I call my credit card company about the interest rate. I call my cell phone company to lower the thing. Once I'm in motion, then all of a sudden I feel like I'm in control. I feel like that's a big part of affordability.

[B]

It's a balance. Right? At one end of the extreme, you don't want to be so hyper vigilant about your finances that you are excruciatingly like stressing over every single penny. But on the opposite end of the extreme, you don't want to be so lackadaisical that you aren't even looking things over. And when you do, there's like little bits of low hanging fruit and generally In a person's life, they might alternate between those two extremes. But if you find yourself in a state of life where you're tending towards the more lackadaisical side, then I think it can be really helpful if you find a $6 error. I'm actually, this is something that happened last night. I order groceries from this place that sells ugly, quote unquote, ugly produce, like misshapen overstock, the stuff that isn't good enough to go in grocery stores. And I have a membership, which means I'm supposed to get free shipping. So I was looking over my most recent order, and they had charged me $5.99 for shipping. And so I just used the chat feature and was like, hey, you know, I'm a member. I'm supposed to get free shipping. Just wondering why this wasn't applied. And of course, because the chat is AI, it took a while of back.

[A]

And forth because it's so good at what it does.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[D]

It didn't know how to respond to. Do you people know who I am?

[B]

But I was thinking about it, like, from a purely mathematical lens, is that the highest and best use of my time? No. But from a behavioral lens, does it remind me that I am the type of person who is conscientious about her bills? Yes. So to your point, Joe, I do think that fixing something, Even if it's $6, does remind you that you're the type of person who does that, and then that becomes a motivating factor that continues to snowball.

[A]

Well, let's go to the guy who does this every day, Justin. Does that work? Just fix something?

[C]

Yeah. I mean, I think you hit it on the head, too, when you said just take the first step or just start something in action. Just get into the arena and you're going to start to find those little wins or find those things that are going to start to propel you forward. I think it's spot on.

[A]

Jesse. You got the last one of the first half. We saved the best for last, man. No pressure. Yeah.

[E]

Well, imagine you're a business and one of these business models that we're seeing just occur more and more and more these days, including in some kind of funny places where you wouldn't expect. It is the business model of a recurring membership, a recurring expense. Businesses really like it for some reason, I think for probably pretty understandable reasons, when they can set up their customers on like, yeah, just press this button here and we'll start charging you $17 a month forever. And so if I think if it's. If I think about it that way, then I think, huh, as the customer, maybe that's not always my best thing to do. I mean, if I'm automating my investments, sure, that's something I want to occur and recur without me having to think about it. But if I'm spending money, is that something that I just never want to have to think about? I can just click one button and never have to think about it again. So my recommendation, my tip would be to delay decisions that create permanent and recurring expenses. Because I think if you think about it more, if you don't make it as this spur of the moment decision that then affects every single month in perpetuity, I think you might rethink some of those decisions. So whether it's delaying the future choices to opt into recurring expenses or simply reviewing the recurring expenses that are currently part of your budget, that's my tip.

[A]

Where does subscription stand on a list, Justin, of places where you really find money for people?

[C]

Top of the list, Absolutely.

[A]

Is it?

[C]

Oh, yeah. The second session that we're meeting with folks, we basically have an income and expenses spreadsheet where we're like, tell me everything. And the amount of subscriptions is just wild. Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, Disney, Peacock, Paramount, HBO, Max Starz, WeWork everything that I've seen, and we just kind of look at it and say, hey, let's examine that for a sec. Tell me more about this. And how do you use all these? And what function do they bring your life? And what are they taking from? Or what are they not allowing you to have that you want to have instead? Because for most people, those subscriptions are not a value to our life. There might be one show we're in love with right now, and we can stick with that, but if we can trim up those subscriptions in another way, oh, my goodness, it's wild how much money you can find pretty quickly, man.

[A]

My cousin nailed it for me. He would ask me all the time, so what are you watching on Disney? And then four months later he'd say, what are you watching on Netflix? And finally I asked him, I said, why do you keep asking me this? He's like, because I only have one set of eyes. So I binge everything on Disney and I have one subscription instead of to all of them. And then I switch over to Netflix, and then I do all of those. And that saved me so much money. Now currently I have three subscriptions, but I had gone down to one. And then I had these free offers with Things that my wife got a new Apple watch, and I really wanted to watch the studio, so I'm doing that one for free. But anyway, we're a little off topic, but I do think that. That subscriptions are a big area. Jesse.

[E]

I'm even thinking, I mean, yes, don't get me wrong, that the TV subscriptions is one that I bet you applies to tons and tons of people. I'm even thinking, I think it's like Planet Fitness. Planet Fitness, as a business, something like 6% of their subscribers actually attend one of their gyms on a monthly basis, or the number is something like that. I probably didn't get the exact number right. But their business model is basically predicated on people being members and not using the service. And I bet there are other things out there I can. One that I literally just canceled the other day was audible the Amazon Audiobook service, because I'm paying. I think it was 1495amonth for these credits. But the credits expire after a year, and then I've got 12 credits are unused. And meanwhile, it's like, I'm not really listening to that many audiobooks. The Libby app is free, and I can listen to audiobooks from the library.

[A]

I'm glad you mentioned that.

[E]

Right. So it's just like, I think I've been leaking $15 a month out of my budget for at least a couple years now. Like, whoa, that really adds up. And that's just. Anyway, I think there are probably a lot of interesting little ones that we all have in our budgets that we could probably shore up those leaks.

[A]

It's funny, our new service, the Vault, dives into people's subscriptions, and already the first early on, we've only had this for three weeks now. And the emails I'm getting from people about subscriptions, they forgot that they had just absolutely blows me away. Anything else, Paula, on the subscription front you can think of?

[B]

You know, I would say that the real question is, are you using it? Because if you've got a gym and you're using it, you know, you can podcast from the gym just like you.

[A]

Can from a pool hall.

[B]

Exactly. You know, if you've got a gym and you're going every day, then don't cancel that gym with the thought, like, maybe I can save some money by doing a YouTube workout video in my living room. Because if you're actually going every day in making yourself healthier by going to the gym every day, great. The habit's there. You're using it, you're getting value out of it. Fantastic Audible actually is a really great example. Earlier today while I was walking home from the train station, I finished listening to Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets. Oh, because they've got the whole, you know, the full cast episode thing.

[A]

Yeah, the brand newish ones.

[B]

Exactly. Oh, it's so good. It's so beautifully produced. I actually listened to to the full end credits just to get an appreciation for how many people worked on it. It's bananas, misshapen, ugly produce. Bananas.

[A]

That's so good. Justin. I like the theme here that we've had with all these, which is it isn't just about the thing, it's valuing the thing. Do I value going out to dinner? Do I value this subscription?

[C]

Yeah, I think values when you're looking at your money or when one of the better ways that you can just identify what matters to you.

[E]

Right.

[C]

And really start to kind of weigh things. And there's going to be seasons of life where some values are more important than others. Right. Again, I've got little kids. Dining out isn't a value right now for us because it's a train wreck. I'm looking forward to the days when my kids can sit down and have a really nice meal together. A nice restaurant where we're not just chicken tenders and fries. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but you know, I'm looking forward to those days.

[A]

Well, and getting away to the gym versus working out at home, I mean, is going to be another one. Eddie hanging out with us live on YouTube and we make these Friday shows live on YouTube. You can find us and this is always a little meta. You can find our Friday show on Mondays at 3:30 ish. We meet up at 3:30. We get on as soon as we can after 3:30 Eastern Time. Do the math on where you are. But we'd love to have you here hanging out with us. But anyway, Eddie says I love Planet Fitness because it's empty most of the time. Works to my advantage. A lot of people not taking advantage of the subscription. All right, guys, that was great for the first half. We're gonna have three more in the second half of today's show. But at the halfway point of every stacking Benjamin's podcast, we have this year long competition between our three frequent contributors, Jesse, Paula and OG oh geez in the Caribbean. So Justin, today you are team OG which means good news and bad news for you, my friend. You want the good news or the bad news?

[C]

Let's lead with the good news.

[A]

Well, the good News is you are in first place because og one week. Number one, the bad news. There's actually a lot of bad news. I. I hate to say that means number one. I hate it when a new guest has to guess first. You're gonna have the first guest. Don't like that. I also don't like. We have a new rule in place this year, which is called you can get a team margin.

[E]

Margin call.

[A]

Margin call. You have to have at least one point to be margin called. And what that means, Justin, if you win, then that person loses a point. If you lose, then you lose, of course, a point. And the person that called the margin call, did they steal the point? Doug? Is that the way we framed it last week?

[D]

Yep.

[A]

They steal your point.

[D]

So it's a possible two point swing because they could win and get the.

[A]

Margin call and steal a point from you. So to get a margin call, we gotta have a question. Doug, you've got the question, man. What are we talking about this week?

[D]

Sure do, Joe. Hey there, Stackers. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And today we're celebrating an event that helped commerce thrive in England. That's right. It was on today's date that Queen Elizabeth herself declared the opening of the Royal Exchange. Whoa. I heard there was a lot of shenanigans going on in the palace back in those days, but I had no idea she opened it up to the public. Whoa. Guess old Betsy was feeling a bit randy, eh? Oh, I. I should have kept reading. Turns out she opened the first commercial space in London. That makes more sense. Yeah, it does. She used that scepter of hers to dunk it with the royal title Donk.

[A]

You.

[D]

You're royal now. Hey, I need one of those. You know, like a donk free shrimp appetizers for everybody at the Sizzler.

[A]

Man, I'd be popular.

[D]

All right, I'm gonna pull things back together here.

[A]

Really?

[D]

Goods were exchanged already?

[A]

Is there a question here?

[D]

While goods were exchanged at this iconic spot, stockbrokers were not allowed in the building because of their rude manners. Duh. Imagine if manners was a criteria to get into the basement. Oh, gee, get blocked at the door. Ah, guy can dream, can he? Where was I? It's like Short attention Span theater today, isn't it? Oh, yeah. Queen Elizabeth Royal Exchange. So let's do this question. How about this? What year on today's date did Queen Elizabeth donk the building open? I'll be back right after I go ask Joe's mom if we can create a Basement exchange. I give anything to get my hands on some of those special brownies she makes.

[A]

I didn't know that the official scepter movement was a donk, Doug.

[D]

That's a donk.

[A]

That's. That's. That's new today. It's in the book, Justin. Unfortunately, you're in the driver's seat on this one, big guy. Queen Elizabeth. The royal exchange on today's date in history. What date was that?

[C]

Well, you know, I feel really bad for everybody on the show. It's my first time, and I forgot to tell you all that I am an Elizabethan history major with a minor in the exchanges within that exchange document. Yeah. So I'm really sorry, you guys, that I have to do this the first time I'm here. No, this is probably going to be a train wreck, and that's okay. Geez, I don't even know. There's some numbers that are floating around in my brain probably way off. And, Chad, if I am, you know, you can feel free to call me out and know that I may not be back next week. So that's okay. I'm gonna go with the first number that came into my brain, and we're gonna go with 1939.

[A]

1939.

[C]

1939.

[A]

Because of the fact that he was ahead of Paula last year. That means Jesse's up next.

[E]

Okay, Elizabeth. Okay, my. My guess is not going to be much directionally better than Justin's, but my mind immediately went to that movie Shakespeare in Love. And Dame Judi Dench plays, I think plays Elizabeth. But then again, I might be mixing up my English queens.

[A]

That is funny, B. Wayne actually says a key question here, which is which Elizabeth?

[E]

Oh, well, I'm thinking it's the. That Elizabeth, which I don't know. Shakespeare. What's that? Late 1500s, early 1600s. I'm going to say 1611.

[A]

1611. That means Paula, you've got a wide field goal here. 1939-1611. I don't want to tell you what to do, but for the first time in over a decade, what I would say is, if your gut says something, just say something else. Please, God.

[B]

Okay, so here's what I know. So Donk is the origin of Donkey Kong. So it was pre Donkey Kong Donkeys.

[A]

Queen Elizabeth, the creator of Donkey Kong.

[B]

You eat bananas. I also was wondering which Elizabeth, and I think Shakespeare is the right instinct, because Shakespeare's of the Elizabethan times. I also remember Joe from. There were two times that you appeared on the Afford Anything podcast and cited King Lear both times. And so after the second time that you cited King Lear, I actually looked up how long ago King Lear was written because I was like, I want to crack a joke about, like, spoiler alert. Do we need a spoiler alert? You've had blank number of years for Kirit. Yeah, exactly. And so I remember that King lear was written 400 years ago. So that puts us right in the 1600s. So I am going to. I'm going to corner Jesse. I'm going to go 1612.

[A]

1612, Paula says. And so we've got 1939 going with an significantly younger Elizabeth and then a way older Elizabeth. Jesse, 1611. And Paula 1612. Who's gonna take the point? And nobody use their margin call.

[C]

I'm just glad I didn't get margin called.

[A]

Did not get margin called. We'll be right back. All right, listen up. Nacho chips, quiet down. Crispy potatoes. This is the moment Velveeta's been preparing you for, and you're not about to crack under pressure. Today's the day to go all in on the drip. Velveeta's heat need Queso is the MVP of any gameday spread. So stick by them and you'll be golden. Now get out there and make delicious history. No tailgate party is complete without Velveeta. New year, same extra value meals at McDonald's. So now get two snack wraps plus fries and a medium soft drink for.

[E]

Just $8 for a limited time only.

[A]

Prices and participation may vary.

[E]

Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska, and California. And for delivery, your planet is now marked for death.

[A]

Marvel Studios the Fantastic Four First Steps is now streaming on Disney.

[C]

We will protect you as a family.

[A]

Light em up. Johnny Marvel's first family is certified fresh on Rotten Tomatoes. That is fantastic. And critics say it's one of the best superhero movies of all time. Marvel Studios the Fantastic Four First Steps now streaming on Disney with PG 13. What time is it, Ben? It's clover time. Justin, you kick this off with the significantly Younger Queen Elizabeth, 1939. How you feeling now?

[C]

Not particularly confident considering that the other hosts were within a year range of one another. So we'll certainly see.

[A]

Well, that's more of a tactic, I think the knowledge just having played this game for over a decade. Jesse, you said 1611, but Paula took the upside. How you feeling?

[E]

I think this is one of those ones where I just try to pretend like I'm feeling good because most of human history is on my side. I mean, I've got the under.

[A]

You got Lots of years before 1611.

[E]

Are we talking about, like, Elizabeth? The really first one? Like when the Saxons came in? Are we talking about like, that Elizabeth? No, I'm kidding. I'm feeling okay. I'm feeling okay.

[A]

I can't tell you. Paula, you took 1612.

[B]

Yeah. You know what? I think this might be my year. Or if not my year, at least my week.

[E]

Could be your month.

[A]

Oh, God, I hope so. It would be great to say this was Paula's week more than two or three times a year. Dog. Is Paula taking the win? Does Justin have the right Elizabeth versus Jesse Impala's Elizabeth. Who's it going to be?

[D]

Well, hey there, stackers. I'm brownie lover and guy who just got his hand dunked. Joe's mom's neighbor Doug. Sure seemed like a fair trade to me. I mean, shrimp scampi at the Sizzler in exchange for mom's special brownies, but God, Joe's mom drives a hard bargain. She said she also wants onion rings thrown in. Onion rings, Ma, come on. Might as well just ask for my El Camino. Woman's ruthless. Another ruthless woman was Queen Elizabeth. You know, when she wanted to be. I bet that woman could stack some Benjamins. She'd just dunk them with that scepter of hers. But they weren't Benjamins in England, right? Nope, I looked it up. Hundred British pounds are called a ton. She helped people make literally a ton of money. That works, right? She did capitalists a great honor by declaring the royal Exchange open on today's date. In what year? Well, in honor of OG not being here, being able to get gripe about the way I give the answer, I would not tell you the year. I will tell you. However, it was 368 years earlier than Justin Guest. Dude, really? 1900. It was 41 years earlier than Paula Guest and just 40 years earlier than Jesse Guest because the correct answer is 1571, making Jesse the winner of week two.

[A]

Wow. The fans go well, Jesse. The fans go wild.

[B]

I got the right Elizabeth, but should have taken the under. Yep.

[A]

And Andrea on YouTube says Paula. And her gut feeling.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Misses it again. You know, I feel pretty good when you said, okay, I'm going to target 1611. I'm like, come on, come on.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Paula's ability to miss it by two years.

[B]

Yeah, it was only two years off.

[A]

Two years off for the win.

[D]

That's a win for her. Joe, take the W and run.

[A]

Nice job. Jesse. You have an acceptance speech for us.

[E]

You know, to be or not to be. That is the question.

[A]

To move on or not to move on is the question. Which means we're moving on. Let's go to our guest of honor for the first one in the second half. Justin, let's keep making things affordable for our stackers. What do we got next?

[C]

This one kind of goes back to my original thought with the idea of trying to calm any type of chaos in your budget. For this one, I would say I want you to notice or kind of recognize when triggers show up for you and steer away from those moments. So if you are highly worked up after the closing shift with your kiddos and they're finally in bed, let's not doom scroll. Right? Because we're probably going to put ourselves in a bad spot with all that amazing master marketing on social media. Or if you've got a really difficult boss that gives you a hard time, and every single week because of that, on that Monday meeting you have with them, you're splitting at lunchtime and going out and spending a bunch of money. Let's find another way that we can kind of triage that so that you're not put into those chaotic moments and feeling like you need to spend. Because that impulse spend is really where I think a lot of people get thrown off within their budget.

[A]

I like this idea of notice don't necessarily take action, but almost like you're a third party, not yourself, and you're looking at yourself from far away, Justin, and you're going, should I be doing this? Should I not be doing this?

[C]

Yeah, it's that idea of just holding up a mirror to yourself and saying, is this right? Where does this sit for me? And there's times where you're gonna say, yeah, you know what? I'm. I'm burned out and I'm going on social media, or I'm.

[B]

I'm.

[C]

Maybe I'm doordashing or you're gonna do those things. But I think the goal for a lot of people is to. And kind of one of the terms I like to use is spiral less. Right. So we might still spiral, but if we're stopping it at a certain level and then we're kind of retraining to stop it even less the time after that, eventually that spiral is no longer going to show up, and we're going to build in those healthy habits that will protect us and protect our wallet.

[A]

I saw this myself a few months ago going to Andy's ice cream. I was in the car halfway to Andy's ice cream before I even knew I was Headed to Andy's ice cream. Like, I just, I was like, hey, I want some Andy's. Get in the car. I get halfway there, Justin, and I'm like, what the hell am I doing, by the way? It gets worse. I get to Andy's ice cream, and the woman opens the door and she goes, medium Texas two step.

[C]

Oh, no.

[A]

And I said, how did you know? And she goes, that's what you always get. Which means that when the woman at Andy's ice cream knows who the hell you are and you're a, quote, regular, that's not a great place to be a regular. You've never done anything like that.

[E]

Jesse, there are a few people in the food services industry and beverage service industry who know me by name, who may know you.

[A]

Is there anything where you should look at yourself as a third party observer, though, and go, you know what? Maybe I need to spend a little less time that?

[E]

Oh, 100%. 100%. I mean, it's one of the hardest things we can do, though. I mean, like the go to phrase that one of my friends taught me once was, you can't see the picture if you're inside the frame. Right. We're so in our own first person vision of the world that it's really hard sometimes to remove yourself from that and try to be this neutral, unbiased, outside observer and slow things down in that way. But the one that I go to in, in a few minutes maybe is kind of related to this too. I, I'll bury the lead. I'll, I'll keep the tension so I won't spoil it. But it's hard to do that. But I think it's really important to do.

[A]

Oh, you're not gonna tell. I, I, I get it. No, yeah, it's still coming.

[E]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Paula, do you have your nemesis like my Andy's ice cream there is a local.

[B]

This is gonna sound worse than it is. There's a local bar that my friends and I go to.

[D]

Yes, that's exactly what I was hoping you were gonna say.

[B]

I'm like, I can't. How do I say that without sounding like an alcoholic, Norm? I don't go there alone. I always go there with friends. Yes, but it's the same bar with the same bartenders, and I get exactly the same drink every time.

[A]

And so do they say the regular.

[B]

They oftentimes they don't even ask me what I want. The dude just looks at me and he's like, tully. And I'm like, yep, that's the Best.

[D]

That's the best.

[A]

I don't think that's bad. If you were going in there alone by yourself, 11 o' clock in the morning, your name. Whole different thing. Justin. That's a great one. And, you know, I was talking to a friend recently. He just started Weight Watchers. And what he found fascinating. Of course, not only do they have their point system and all the good stuff, but they also, you know, it's education. And they said that a lot of times this craving that you'll have, like my Andy's ice cream craving, will last for about. About. I believe the number was two and a half minutes. And if you can just be an observer to your point for about two and a half minutes and observe the craving and kind of. He talked about surfing the wave. You know, just surf the way. Feel the feeling, then feel it go away. The Andy's ice cream thing will go away. And I think that idea of just feel it and experience it, but don't act on it. Great way to kind of take control. All right, Jesse. I can't. Do we keep the Jesse tension any longer? Let's do it. Let's keep the Jesse tension going. We're gonna go to Paula.

[E]

It's too much pressure. It might not be that good.

[A]

And then everybody's gonna blame you. Paula, what's your second one? Let's make life more affordable.

[B]

Okay, well, so this is going to be a lot.

[D]

Wait a minute.

[A]

Hold on. Andrea is saying afford anything does abbreviate to aa.

[B]

So.

[A]

Classic.

[B]

Well, and Paula pant abbreviates to pee. Yeah. The thing you do after going to the bars after aa.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So, okay, my next tip is going to be a lot more effort up front. But then once you do it, it's ongoing savings from that point forward, and it is reduce your housing costs. That might mean moving to a smaller home. You know, it's not just the cost of the rent or mortgage. It's also the utilities. If you're an owner. It's the property taxes, the insurance. It's the upkeep, the cost of the upkeep of the home. Like, there's so many downstream expenses that you alter when you move to a less expensive home. Making that move has an enormous upfront cost both in terms of time and money.

[A]

Boy, have you ever done that?

[B]

Have I ever moved? Many, many, many move.

[A]

But have you moved just as a way to cut expenses? Because I know that's the big one.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

But that is extreme with a capital extreme.

[B]

Yeah. So the very first property that we ever bought. When we moved from being renters in the house across the street, we noticed that the triplex across the street was for sale. We actually didn't know at the time. I had no idea how to calculate the numbers on a rental. So we just did back of the envelope math and we realized that if we moved across the street with our roommates, we were living five people in a three bedroom. The total rent on the three bedrooms, 1200 per month. There are two couples plus one single person. So everybody's bedroom was $400 each. Right. So then as the couple, it was divided up as 200 per person. And so we realized, and this is a very extreme way to reduce $200 out of your budget, but we realized that if we moved all of our roommates into the triplex across the street, our out of pocket housing costs would go to zero.

[A]

Wow. But it's still at $4,800 a year.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Still a big number.

[B]

And it required having a down payment and it required getting our roommates to come with us. And, and then there were two other units. So it was, it was a whole thing.

[A]

Justin, how many times do you see people? I mean, this is the big one, right? This is the number one way to save money. But how many times have you had people go to that extreme?

[C]

Pretty frequently, actually, and this is one that Haley and I did on our own journey. We ended up selling a home and becoming renters, albeit closer to her mom, so that we could get some support with our kiddos. When we had our first two and we were, you know, two under two, which was hectic, but it helped us pay off a $18,000 timeshare in Mexico. So it saved us 275 bucks in our budget monthly by moving. And it was the right choice for our family at that time. Now, for many of our clients, we do see similarly, housing costs are expensive. And sometimes we get trapped in this game. You know, you all talked about it last week of what we see on social media and what we think we need versus what we truly need to be. Okay. We get caught up in the cycle and in the marketing and the messaging and the, the housing costs. If you're willing to, to step away and really identify it, that's a place where you can get some money back into your wallet pretty quickly.

[A]

I had a combination of the last two suggestions. Happened to me. I was working my way out of debt and my kids were young. My twins were young, but they were getting a little older. We were in an 850 square foot house. And I really wanted to purchase a home, but I found a much nicer house for a few hundred dollars more than we were paying per month. That would fit our family over the short term much better. And I had just hired one of my first coaches. And I said to the coach, I said to Deborah, I'm like, this just seems like the right fit. And she goes, would you rather pay more per month on a rental that you don't want to be in long term, it isn't, it isn't where you want to be? Or would you rather wake up every day realizing I'm not where I'm at financially and I want to get there to the place where I really want to be, which you've told me you want to own a home. And so for me, it wasn't that I moved and got less expensive, but I avoided that urge that I had to, hey, I can just, you know, make things seem like they're nicer even though they truly aren't. It was some of the best counseling that I'd gotten. Jesse, has changing your either rent or mortgage or living condition helped you anytime in your journey?

[E]

At one point, yeah, I. The quick and dirty story is me and a buddy moved in together. We split. I think it was $1,400 a month for a nice two bedroom apartment. We each had our own space. He moved out. I decided to keep the apartment because I liked it. So now I'm single, paying 1,400amonth, which in Rochester is like relatively expensive. We're not exactly, you know, high rent here. But then when I bought my first home, which is a $96,000 starter home, I think the all in mortgage payment on that was 12 or 1300amonth. I think my, my all in mortgage payment was less for the house than it had been to rent. So that was like a little win. But I was curious, Paula, when you. So it was one couple in one bedroom, another couple in another bedroom. Did you guys consider bunk beds so that you could have two couples in one room?

[B]

Well, why stop there? Why not? Why not go full dorm style like they do in those hostels in Europe, you know?

[E]

Exactly.

[B]

You could probably put like 16 people in a room if stacked it well enough.

[E]

Don't tell the fire marshal, but super smart personal finance.

[D]

Just one giant mattress.

[E]

Doug, it's some experience with that.

[D]

I mean, you know, we had.

[E]

1973 was a wild year.

[A]

Let's not ask Doug what he did back in the day. Let's leave the past in the past.

[D]

Familiar with the phrase lifestyle, Jesse?

[A]

We had a house. I lived in Michigan State. And we had a clear agreement with our landlord. He said it's okay having seven guys in this house. But listen, here's what's going to happen. I'm going to call you at 8:00 1 morning and I'm going to need you guys to turn two of these bedrooms into, quote, study rooms that day because the fire marshal's coming by. And it was funny because as if the fire marshal's not going to know. Right. It was the biggest smoke of mirrors thing ever. But we get the call. We got the call twice a year. Hey, farm marshall's coming by today. We had to turn bedrooms into study rooms so that we could save a nickel on some accommodations. Worst house I ever lived in, by the way. All right, that is the big one though, right? So number one expense is housing. Is food number two or number three?

[B]

I mean, I know the top three are housing, food and transportation.

[A]

Yeah, but in terms of transportation, number two is transportation, number three.

[B]

I think it would depend on where you live. If you're a New Yorker, transportation is going to be almost nothing. But if you have to drive an hour to work every day or just.

[A]

The cost of buying and maintaining a car, even if you don't.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. But even more so if you're putting a lot of mileage on it because of just the maintenance. It's not even just fuel costs, but also the maintenance costs.

[A]

This whole idea, by the way, of having tons of roommates Shane hanging out with us says gives the term stacking Benjamins a whole new meaning for all together on one mattress. Jesse, it's the time, man. What is this epic thing that you were saving to build tension? Stop building it up.

[D]

Gather round, children.

[A]

It's not that cool.

[E]

So I was thinking about it earlier. I think Justin's made me think that it was. It was similar in some way because. So I won't. I'll just say what it is. It's to rethink what's quote unquote, mandatory and. Or to avoid paying for status that you don't actually care about out. It's hard to see the picture when you're inside the frame. But here's one. I would wager that 98% of our stackers who are listening to this or some really high percentage own a cell phone that either costs them many, many hundreds of dollars upfront or is costing them many hundreds of dollars over the course of the year in terms of a Recurring plan for that phone. And that's the kind of thing where if you really want to get down to brass tacks and talk about what you need to live your life. Is an iPhone 17 on that list? I'm not sure it is. If I'm being really honest with myself, I'm not sure having the newest, nicest technology there is like truly mandatory for me to live a fulfilling life. I like to have it. It's a nice thing to have. It's certainly. But I think it's closer to a luxury item than it is to a necessity, in my opinion. And I think there are a few things, some pretty big budget items that we could all go through and realize that you, if we're being really honest with ourselves, this is a nice to have luxury. It's not a necessity. And if you're looking for ways to make life more affordable, trying to identify those and again to kind of look at yourself from that unbiased third party view to identify those and remove them from your budget if you want to, I think could be a really big step.

[A]

There's sometimes, Jesse, when it's thrown right in your face. I was just doing marathon weekend at Walt Disney World. And so of course you go to the parks and they have this lightning lane that you pay a bunch of money for and it gets thrown in your face over and over that these people are clearly more important than you are because they, you know, and it is funny because if you've ever sprang for lightning lane before, you also do feel a little like, well, look at me and all you little people. I'm not going to be with all those little people anymore. Or you're at the airline club, you know, because you paid a bajillion dollars a year for your status airline card and you're like, well, I can't sit out with the commoners. My goodness, I gotta have the same chair but in a little area that's just for me and the cool people. That is wild. But let's stick with the cell phone. Anybody do the cell phone switch, like go, you know what? I don't need this great cell phone plan that I had and make that cut.

[C]

I will say we haven't yet. We're still on our kind of standard Verizon plan. But every, every time I see somebody post about, you know, Mint Mobile or whatever, you know, those kind of 15 plans are. And these are people I trust in the personal finance community. And they're like, yeah, I get everything done I need to. And it's, it's 15 bucks. You know, for however cheap it is, I start to be like, oh, I'm a little jealous right there.

[A]

Paula, you were nodding your head too.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. So I've been using Mint and Full Disclaimer, They're a podcast sponsor. But you can hear, you can see, see right here, like cracks. Yeah, yeah, you can see the cracks on my phone screen too. But also you can see I. I'm genuinely using them.

[E]

Oh, I thought those were whiskers. Those are cracks.

[B]

Oh, no, those are whiskers.

[A]

Oh, those are whiskers.

[B]

Those are whiskers.

[E]

The people listening at home thought I must be joking. But no, those are whiskers.

[B]

Yeah, these are whiskers. This right here is like, you can kind of see it, little cracks.

[A]

Boy, that's some facial hair, Paula. Oh, no, that's a cat. I'm just kidding, people.

[B]

But yes, but I've been using Mint since pre pandemic, so it must have been at least six years. I literally don't see a difference. I mean, maybe it would be different if I lived in a very rural place. But they use the same network, like the T mobile network.

[A]

But being someone that uses their phone a lot to create stuff that people trying to get financial advice and financial help from. Do you still use like one of the top newer phones with a better camera and better recording devices?

[C]

No, no.

[B]

This is an iPhone 14. At the time that I buy my phone, I get the nicest phone that's currently available and then I use it until it dies.

[A]

Keep it forever.

[B]

Yeah. My definition of until it dies is when the battery gets so bad that it functionally turns into a landline. That's the time that I replace it.

[A]

With all the vitriol right now about social media, most of which I totally agree with, and how we're being divided. Just this idea we joked about the last couple weeks in a row about going to a flip phone that just, I don't know, that seems really cool to me. That just right now seems to be something I would absolutely love. Jesse, have you made the cell phone change?

[E]

At one point I was doing Straight Talk. I was using Straight Talk and then it actually became cheaper for me to join my wife's family's family plan. So. But as far as the technology itself, I was always a used, refurbished phone person. So I'd buy like the two year old model for 140 bucks and then use that for the next two years. And then so, you know, I was getting the new phone just two or three years after everybody else. But then when I joined my wife's family plan, I got again, I got like a one year old phone for free for joining their plan. So that's what I'm on now.

[A]

I did the same, by the way, with phones. Just stayed behind the curve. Right. A few years back. But ever since we started relying more on video at stacking. Benjamin. I changed it. Paula, do more of what you're doing. But if it weren't for this, I'm 100% on that. So not a bad one. Jesse, that was pretty damn good. You brought it, my friend. Good work.

[E]

Thank you.

[A]

I'm glad job guys. Hopefully you were able to take some note stackers and make some changes. And what I'd encourage you to do is make them right away because studies show that if you don't make changes to the things you're thinking about right now and you let it go for two days, you're probably not going to do anything. So pause the episode, put it in your calendar and just get it done. But don't pause before you find out where you can find more of this goodness. Let's start with our guest of honor. Justin. Thanks so much for joining us. It's about damn time we had you, man.

[C]

Yeah, thanks for having me.

[A]

So about time. Where can people find out more? Where can they follow you? I follow you on Instagram, I follow you on TikTok. Where else are you creating new stuff these days?

[C]

Primarily Instagram and Tick Tock. So just at price of Avocado Toast across those platforms and threads as well, which has been really fun. I really like threads right now because I can just kind of do it in 6am when I haven't even had coffee and just kind of spit out a thought. Right. It doesn't have to be curated. So yeah, at price of Avocado Toast there and then our podcast. Wherever you listen to podcasts, you can find us there as well. We're on a hiatus, like I said, while my wife's getting pregnant for somebody else. But yeah, we'll, we'll be putting out more episodes shortly.

[A]

But those are evergreen. I mean, they really are evergreen episodes. So just because it's a year and a half old, those things apply today.

[C]

Totally.

[A]

Things you guys talk about are all today. Jesse Kramer, what's going on at Personal Finance for Long Term Investors?

[E]

Well, it's my mom's birthday today. Not, not Joe's mom, but my mom. But what's going on at Personal Finance for Long Term Investors? Next week an episode's coming out that I think the title we're going with is Some Dumb financial moves I'm 100% fine with. Oh, and it's just a list of things that Dave Ramsey might not like. Or, you know, hey, maybe some of you guys might not like. Maybe a spreadsheet just doesn't like them. But I think there are some really justifiable reasons to actually enact those financial moves in your life if you so choose. So I go through that list and I think it'll be kind of fun.

[A]

That's fabulous. And I think it'd be awesome if at the end of that episode you go, no, these are still really dumb moves. I'm just fine with them.

[E]

Yeah, yeah, you would be an idiot for doing this, but you're my idiot, so that's okay.

[A]

I wouldn't do them. And that's it. The Piffal T podcast. That's the one. Paula Pant, did you win any money today from these pool sharks next year, or did you create a new stacker as they're listening to us make the new show here?

[B]

Neither of the above. So the people at the pool table next to me have left. In fact, I think they noticed me turn the camera screen towards them at the beginning of the show, and they left reasonably soon after that. So I think they figured out that I'm recording a podcast episode.

[A]

Sitting there with a microphone, your face and headphones.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Might have been a hint, right?

[B]

Yeah, that was. That was the first clue.

[A]

So what's going on at Afford Anything this week?

[B]

Today on Afford Anything, we have the director for the center of Economic Education at Virginia Commonwealth University. We have him join us to talk about how to teach your kids about money. His expertise is economic elementary education, a bunch of e's, but, you know, his expertise is teaching economics and social studies at the elementary school level. He himself is also a father of four. So he blends discussing the research around teaching kids about money with the lived experience of having four kids. And he shares personal anecdotes and then ties it into research.

[A]

It isn't all just theory.

[B]

Exactly. Exactly. So you can find that interview on the Afford Anything podcast. His name is Stephen Day.

[A]

Stephen Day.

[B]

Stephen Day. Yes.

[A]

Wherever finer podcasts are curated stackers. Thanks for hanging out with us today on YouTube. If you want to hang out with us while we make the show, that's Mondays. Just after 3:30pm we get together at 3:30, and then as soon as we make sure we got all the kinks out, we go live between 3:30 and 3:40.5 Eastern Time on Mondays. Come join us. We also have a show. We have shows on Wednesday. Those are of course, our audio only podcast. All right, Doug, you got it from here, man. What should we have learned today?

[D]

Well, Joe, first, take some advice from Justin. Just like college basketball and NFL refs, find something you can fix. Variability in your bills is the. Yeah, see what I did? I said it out loud. Variability in your bills is the. The first thing that blows a budget. So if you can make a monthly bill more consistent, it'll be easier to stay on target. Second, don't forget what that total buzz kill Paula dropped on us when she said you can no longer have food delivered. Guess who's not getting an invite to my RV for the Super Bowl. But the big lesson, don't give Joe's mom any ideas by talking about Queen Elizabeth's donker. She'll dunk you upside the head and tell you the windows won't wash themselves. Thanks to Justin Brown woods for joining us today. You'll find Justin's advice all over social media. Here's what I'm gonna do. I'll have my people link to his Insta and TikTok pages on our show [e-mail]. that's what I'll do. I'll wave my scepter like Queen Elizabeth and dunk it on Justin's social media. That doesn't sound great. Thanks to. Thanks to Paula Pant for hanging out with us today. You'll find her fabulous podcast Afford Anything where you listen to the finest podcasts. Just Donk finder podcasts on your player Dunk Misshapen vegetables Donk. Thanks also to the Jesse Kramer for hanging out again. You'll find Jesse's wisdom at personal finance for long term investors.

[E]

You know what?

[D]

I'll do you a solid on that one too. And have one of my servants link to that in our show [e-mail]. you're welcome. You may kiss my ring. This show is the property of SP Podcast LLC, Copyright 2026 and is created by Joe Salsihai. You'll find out about our awesome [e-mail] along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello and oh yeah, before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don't take advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I'M Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And we'll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show.