How to Buy What You Love Without Going Broke in 2025 (SB1627)

Summary

Podcast Summary: "How to Buy What You Love Without Going Broke in 2025" (SB1627)
The Stacking Benjamins Show
Release Date: January 6, 2025

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Introduction

In the January 6, 2025 episode of The Stacking Benjamins Show, hosts Joe Saul-Sehy and OG delve into the art of purchasing what you love without jeopardizing your financial stability. Featuring special guests Jen Smith and Jill Sirianni from the Frugal Friends Podcast, the episode provides listeners with actionable strategies to align their spending with personal values, avoid debt traps, and cultivate a healthier relationship with money.

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Frugality vs. Being Cheap

A central theme of the episode is distinguishing between frugality and cheapness. Jen and Jill emphasize that while being cheap often involves sacrificing quality and relationships for lower prices, frugality is about being a steward of all resources—time, energy, relationships, and finances.

Jen Smith [13:41]: "We believe that cheap takes advantage usually of other people, usually of other resources... whereas frugalness is the stewarding of each of these things."

This nuanced understanding encourages listeners to make thoughtful spending decisions that enhance their lives without unnecessary deprivation.

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The Four Fs: Family, Friends, Faith, Fulfilling Work

Jen and Jill introduce the Four Fs framework—Family, Friends, Faith, and Fulfilling Work—as foundational to a meaningful and financially sustainable life. By prioritizing these areas, individuals can ensure their spending supports what truly matters to them.

Jill Sirianni [25:54]: "Family, friends, faith, and fulfilling work correspond with all these higher needs on the hierarchy... they are going to hit really every single part of these higher needs."

This approach aligns spending with personal values, making financial decisions more purposeful and less impulsive.

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Transaction Inventory and Spending Patterns

The guests advocate for conducting a 90-day transaction inventory to gain insight into current spending habits. By analyzing recent transactions, individuals can identify patterns and triggers that lead to unnecessary expenditures.

Doug [20:55]: "We use James Clear's Atomic habits triggers to find out what preceded each purchase and how to change that in the future."

Understanding these habits allows for targeted adjustments, fostering more intentional and value-driven spending.

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Building a Spending Plan Based on Values

Rather than starting with a restrictive budget, Jen and Jill recommend beginning with an assessment of personal values and needs. This foundational step ensures that the subsequent spending plan is both realistic and aligned with what brings genuine satisfaction.

Jen Smith [29:46]: "Defining the constraints... gives us the free reign to play within it and feel really comfortable and at ease and confident with the parameters that we have decided are going to exist."

This method promotes a positive and empowering approach to financial planning, avoiding the pitfalls of feeling deprived.

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The Addictive Nature of High-Risk Trading

The episode also explores the psychological parallels between high-risk stock trading and gambling, highlighting the addictive tendencies some investors develop towards the stock market's volatility.

Joe Saul-Sehy [49:08]: "This is a real problem, OG. Maybe not just checking it all the time, but going, oh, I think I might be able to do a little bit more."

Stories shared by listeners reveal how the allure of quick financial gains can lead to significant losses and personal turmoil, underscoring the importance of disciplined investing strategies.

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Personal Stories and Insights

Jen and Jill share their personal journeys toward financial mindfulness. Jen recounts her early career struggle with student debt and how living in an RV helped reduce expenses, redefining her perspective on frugality.

Jen Smith [11:43]: "I grew up with not a ton of money... living in an RV for a couple of years to lower our living and housing expenses."

Meanwhile, Jill discusses overcoming compulsive spending by aligning her financial actions with her core values, transforming her relationship with money from scarcity to abundance.

Jill Sirianni [27:47]: "Sometimes we can have a negative association with limitations, but really understanding it as defining what is and isn't okay."

These narratives provide relatable insights, demonstrating the practical application of the discussed financial principles.

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Conclusion and Key Takeaways

The episode concludes with a synthesis of the key points:

1. Frugal ≠ Cheap: Focus on being a steward of all resources rather than solely seeking lower prices.
2. Align Spending with Values: Utilize the Four Fs to ensure financial decisions support what truly matters.
3. Conduct a Transaction Inventory: Regularly review spending to identify and modify harmful financial habits.
4. Build a Values-Based Spending Plan: Start with personal values before implementing budgeting tools for a more positive financial experience.

Joe wraps up by highlighting the importance of mindset over rigid budgeting, encouraging listeners to foster a healthier, values-aligned approach to spending.

Joe Saul-Sehy [29:46]: "Change your mindset. You can focus on buying those things that actually light you up and forget the rest."

Additionally, Jen and Jill's upcoming book, Buy What You Love Without Going Broke, is promoted as a resource for furthering financial literacy and applying the discussed strategies.

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Notable Quotes

• Jen Smith [13:41]: "...

• Jill Sirianni [25:54]: "Family, friends, faith, and fulfilling work correspond with all these higher needs on the hierarchy..."

• Joe Saul-Sehy [29:46]: "Change your mindset. You can focus on buying those things that actually light you up and forget the rest."

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Final Thoughts

This episode of The Stacking Benjamins Show offers a refreshing take on personal finance by merging financial strategies with personal well-being. By prioritizing values and understanding spending habits, listeners are empowered to make informed and fulfilling financial decisions for 2025 and beyond.

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Resources Mentioned

• Buy What You Love Without Going Broke by Jen Smith and Jill Sirianni
• Frugal Friends Podcast
• James Clear's Atomic Habits

For more insights and to purchase the book, visit StackingBenjamins.com or your local bookstore.

Transcript

[Joe]

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[Doug]

So.

[Joe]

So you're socking more away. And right now, Navy Federal Credit Union is offering a 0% intro APR on credit card balance transfers for 12 months. Plus you can get $250 when you spend 2500 on your first 90 days on a cash rewards or cash rewards plus credit card. Don't let debt drag you down. Visit Navy federal.org to start dominating debt today. Navy Federal Credit Union. Our members are the mission. Navy Federal's insured by NCUA. After the intro rate expires, variable APRs are 15.15% to based on credit worthiness, rates are subject to change. ATM fees for cash advances are up to $1. All non Navy Federal ATMs.

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[Joe]

Time to party, Doug. Let's do it.

[OG]

No. No. I refuse, Joe. I will not open the show.

[Joe]

I forgot that at the beginning of our first recording, it's actually Monday. You know what we do on Monday mornings, Doug? Apparently you do and I don't.

[OG]

Right? And I have three extra shots of espresso to salute the troops. So get ready today, boys. Strap in.

[Joe]

The troops are getting saluted, if you know what I mean.

[Jill]

Before we start this year, I just need to set up my trophy.

[Joe]

Oh.

[OG]

Oh, boy.

[Joe]

Already. Can we salute the troops while he's setting up the trophy so we don't have to.

[Jill]

I just had to write my name on there. As you remember, it's erasable, but it's getting kind of old. Like worn in where it says OG so many times. There is one Len written on top of that from the old days. But from the old days we got rid of that.

[Joe]

We'll be beginning our trivia in a couple weeks.

[Jill]

Yeah, set that right up there. Right where it belongs.

[OG]

Wait, we're waiting weeks?

[Joe]

Well, we are this Friday. We are live from New York City. Next Friday, we have the Magic 8 Ball episode. Then we will tear into trivia and.

[Jill]

See if I think the judges decided to shrink in the season just to see if that affects the outcome.

[OG]

We're going to shrink in the season, which means I've got, like a couple weeks off. Sounds like to me. Sweet. I'm all in on 2025.

[Joe]

It's starting off I like this year already.

[OG]

Yep.

[Joe]

I saw on one of these news shows lately, the word of 2025. The word of 2025, according to the powers that be that decide what the big word is. You know what the word of 2025 is? And iFication, which is this idea that companies always after they create something good, they make it more so that they can just bring in more cash, like AirPods and iFication.

[OG]

Was this the Oxford English Dictionary? Did they say that that was the word of 20 or was it Webster's? Like what? I don't remember what it was.

[Joe]

It was Doug, one of those people, and I thought that was great. It's a great word. On behalf of the men and women making podcast in mom's basement and the men and women at Navy Federal Credit Union serving our military, here's to you. A great year, man. Thank you for all you do.

[Jill]

Cheers.

[OG]

Amen.

[Joe]

Stack some Benjamins together now.

[OG]

Thanks, everybody.

[Jill]

Hey, you guys want to know what my word of the year is?

[OG]

Steve, get ready to beep. Get your finger over the beep button, Steve.

[Jill]

It is.

[OG]

Live from Joe's mom's basement, it's the Stacking Benjamin Show. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and feel like you could use just a tad less consumerism in your life. Can you frugal your way to more money in 2025? Sure you can. And we have the perfect duo to help. They're the team behind the Frugal Friends podcast, Jen Smith and Jill Sirianni. Plus, how many times do you check your portfolio every day? We'll share a disturbing trend in today's headline. And don't you worry, because I'll swoop in halfway through this shindig with some of Doug's world famous trivia. And now two guys who are all decked out as the shiny new 2025 model of stacking Benjamins. It's Joe and O. JJ, Juja G.

[Joe]

Hey there, stackers. Happy Monday. Welcome to back to work week throughout probably not just most of the US but most of the world. Back to work. Doug's like, maybe for 90, 95.

[Jill]

A few people that started working on the second, I was like, that's ridiculous.

[Joe]

What? How about all that? We went to a great restaurant on New Year's Day and there are people working then. So if you're one of those people, man, you're like, what are you talking about? I'm six days into big time work. But you made it. You found us. Sit back and relax because you're at the Stacking Benjamin show. We're going to have some fun with finance. And today, OG we're finally pivoting from making more money to. It actually might matter what you do with that money once you make it.

[Jill]

Kind of seems like a good topic for the front end of the year. I don't know about you, but I sat down at the last couple weeks of the year and did a little inventory and reconnected all my Monarch Money connections. They send you all the connect. They're like, hey, this connection doesn't you. I'll get to it later. And then you log in, you're like, oh, I have a connected to any of them in a while. So. So yeah, kind of reset the meter. I like that a little bit.

[Joe]

You know you're in a heavy spending month when your Monarch Money or whatever app you use says, hey, this disconnected. And you're like, nah, it's a week before the big holiday week. I'm going to let this stage.

[Jill]

Let's go ahead and leave that disconnected.

[Joe]

I had no idea how much I.

[Jill]

Face the music in a couple weeks.

[Joe]

Yes, well, and we're going to face the music today with a wonderful duo, Jen and Jill, who were amazingly presented by the man who talks about himself in his trivia in the third person. I like that Doug, the Doug. It's like the royal we some of Doug's famous trivia.

[OG]

Does Doug like this? Doug does like this.

[Joe]

Doug likes this a lot. It's such a great topic and so important here for the beginning of the year that we kind of reset. We get ready to go. I love focusing on income first and I know so do you, OG but once we get that money, there was a time in my life it didn't matter how much money I made, I would have spent more because I didn't have it all locked down. And I think Jen and Jill are going to surprise you because I've known these wonderful women in the Frugal Friends podcast for a long time. What they say you focus on is not where you would think that they're going to go today. So that is coming up in just a minute. Jill Serani and Jen Smith are the host of the Frugal Friends Podcast, a phenomenal podcast about meaningful decisions in your life. I've known Jen for a long time. In fact, in Tampa. She was the person that I asked to be the MC of our Tampa event on my book tour a couple years ago. She is the same book agent that I have, in fact, which was amazing and she's got a lot to say, as does Jill on the topic of better spending. They are coming up next, but we've got some sponsors to make sure this is free so you can focus on earning more money and not how are we going to pay for the stacking? Benjamin's Goodness. We're going to hear from them. And then right after that, our Monday Mentors to kick off our first full week of 2025, Jen Smith and Jill Sirianni well, debt can really take a toll on you between minimum payments and interest rates. It's really stressful and I've been there stackers and at times it feels like you just can't get ahead. Well, Navy Federal Credit Union understands that's a huge stressor and they're here to help. Navy Federal Credit Union has all the financial tools and resources you need to dominate debt. Here's what you do. Put together your strategy. One piece of a strategy might be to lower those interest rates as much as possible so you can sock even more toward those principal payments, right? And right now, Navy Federal Credit Union is offering a 0% intro EPR on credit card balance transfers for up to 12 months. Plus you can get $250 when you spend 20 $500 in your first 90 days on a cash rewards or cash rewards plus credit card. Don't let that drag you down. Visit Navy federal.org to start dominating debt today. Navy Federal Credit Union Our members are the mission. Navy Federal is insured by NCUA after the intro rate expires. Variable APRs are 15.15% to 18% based on creditworthiness. Rates are subject to change. ATM fees for cash advances are up to $1 at non Navy Federal ATMs.

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[Joe]

And look who's coming down to the basement. My frugal friends Jill and Jenner here. How are you ladies?

[Jen]

So good. So fun to be here. It's a little damp.

[Doug]

I brought a few board games with me.

[Joe]

I hope that Perfect, because I just spent the entire holiday playing board games and I haven't had enough. I mean, seriously, you can't get enough?

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Joe]

By the way, board games would be a frugal hobby if I didn't keep buying them. Jen.

[Jen]

So true.

[Doug]

So true. I bought one at a thrift store on Black Friday.

[Joe]

You wrote me bragging, I know.

[Doug]

I thought you'd love it. It was fully intact and didn't need a board. And we've just been kind of playing it incorrectly over the past couple of weeks. It's been. It's been so fun.

[Joe]

It's like every game I'm known for missing one rule and then like halfway through the game going, oh, yeah, I.

[Jen]

Forgot a rule conveniently, when it benefits you.

[Joe]

Yeah, that's right, Exactly. No, Jill, I would win a lot more if I did it conveniently where it benefited me. Hey, this is the perfect episode kind of to begin our year with. I know a lot of our stackers probably coming off the holiday season. They're like, what did I just do? Like, I just think I could buy the holidays, like, not a couple of them. I could buy everything. And I look at my credit card statement now and I'm in trouble. But I wonder, as I talk to both of you, I've never asked you this. Have you guys always been frugal? Have you always been kind of good savers? Jill, let's start with you.

[Jen]

I would have described myself as always having been, quote, unquote, frugal. Although my definition of frugality has certainly changed over the years. But I grew up with not a ton of money. And then I went into the field of social work and my first job right out of College, I made $24,000 and my student loan debt was $30,000. None of those are remarkable numbers, but it was more debt than what I was earning in a year. And it felt very overwhelming to me. And so I think I definitely needed to learn a lifestyle of how to be A good problem solver, how to pay off this debt while still, still engaging in a job that I really like. I didn't want to leave the field of social work, but yet what could be done as a result? Which kind of led me and my husband to living in an RV for a couple of years to kind of lower our living and housing expenses. And so in that way, I think people would look at me and say, yeah, that was frugal. Those were some really frugal decisions. But I think over time, I've started to. We together have started to kind of reorient the narrative around frugality, being good stewards of all of our resources, not just money. And so I think there were times when maybe I erred more on the side of cheap, kind of just getting as much as I could for as little as possible, but then realizing over time that's not actually serving me. I just have a lot of junk that I don't actually want and collects a lot of dust and takes up my time. And what would be better ways of spending all of my resources, my time, my energy, my relational capacities and my finances. And also kind of reorienting some of this, have to remain in this place of earning a little amount of money or to sacrifice something that I really enjoy doing. So I think this journey. But yes, I've kind of always been very aware of my money and how do I make it stretch? But also realizing there's more to it than that and there are ways that I can meet my needs, even apart from money.

[Joe]

It doesn't surprise me, Jill, that you've always been frugal, because when I was in college, I worked for the Michigan State University. I'm wearing their stuff today. Michigan State University Development Fund, where we raise money. I was a telemarketer calling alumni and asking them to give a gift. Right. And I remember we would go program by program, and when we got to social work, those people, you people never had any money. Yeah, we're not making money. I mean, you were clearly in this job because you loved it. Like the social work people that I called the nicest people on earth. But never.

[Jen]

You're not going to get a dime from us.

[Joe]

Never had any money.

[Jen]

It was because you didn't have her.

[Joe]

Debt, didn't have the money to give. So that doesn't surprise me. Jen, how about you?

[Doug]

I didn't think a lot about the word frugal, but I thought I was good with money because I would always buy generic brands and thought that I was broke. So that made me think that I didn't spend a lot, but in reality, I was just being kind of careless and mindless with my spending. I was buying cheap stuff, but in high volume, and that's why I was always broke. And so, like. Yeah, exactly what Jill said. Just kind of redefining what frugality meant over the years has given me a lot of freedom in how I spend.

[Joe]

But you were kind of, though, Jen, a little bit a spender though, right? I mean, even though you bought, still.

[Doug]

Yeah, I'm still. I still love spending money, guys. Like, I love buying stuff. I just know that the things that I buy, I really love. And I don't feel any guilt about it because I know I can say no to the things, like I'm being influenced to buy or, like, marketed to.

[Joe]

That's interesting. I love how both of you kind of changed the narrative. Jill, you said that maybe you were just cheap, and that's not the same as frugal. Like, that's a powerful difference, I think, between those two words.

[Jen]

Yeah. We believe that cheap takes advantage usually of other people, usually of other resources. That cheap will cost us other aspects of our personhood. Cheap will cost us our energy, our time, our relationships, whereas frugal. Frugality is the stewarding, well, of each of these things. That you're not sacrificing your time, energy, relationships in order to get a good price for something. That these things have cohesion to them.

[Joe]

You've got a framework that comes from. Whose idea was it to look at martial arts and say, you know, martial arts has a lot to do with frugality. If you're not frugal, I will kick you.

[Doug]

I don't know, like, okay, so it actually came from TikTok. You can thank me for that one. But I saw them talking about, just like, I think business in general. But how you learn a skill essentially is the Japanese martial artists for their skill. Consider the concept of shu ha ri, which is shu means you are following the master 100%. You do not deviate, you do not look to other masters. Ha is when you start to incorporate the ideas of other masters and start to create your own style of martial art. And then re is transcend in. That is, you've mastered your skill enough to come up with your own philosophy. And so we took the same approach to personal finance. At first, you can find a teacher, follow them 100%. That way you don't get decision fatigue, overwhelm all this stuff. But eventually you're going to want to start Bringing in the ideas of other educators. And then eventually you're going to want to transcend and fully do what is right for you. But each of those stages comes at the right time.

[Joe]

I like that, especially here in January, because it feels like I'm working on the machinery of getting good with money, right, instead of trying to invent something new and be a new person, which I think is wild. New Year's resolutions don't work most of the time is because I'm going to be a new me. Well, instead of being a new me, I'm going to start building a machine. Where does budgeting play in? Into being frugal. Because I would think that somewhere at the heart of this is having a decent budget, or as you guys call it, a spending plan.

[Jen]

Well, I'm hearing you describe needing the skill sets in order to actually achieve the goals that we've set out for ourselves. The kind of New Year, new me. We can have all the ideas about what that's going to look like, but without the skillset to implement, we're going to fall flat come mid January. Maybe later for some of us, but usually mid January for me.

[Joe]

No, you know what's funny, Jill? I just read a thing last week. The date that people give up on their New Year's resolutions. January 12th.

[Jen]

I believe it. We're.

[Doug]

That makes 100% of sense.

[Jen]

We're still tired by then. We like to reframe the concept of a budget to be a spending plan. We still use the word budget. We just find that sometimes attaching new verbiage to old lingo can help us to see it in a new light, maybe adopt it in a way that can be more individualized for us. But we don't start there. We don't start with the spending plan. We start with the skills that are going to support the implementation of the plan. So it is good to have something in writing, on paper, in an app and a spreadsheet. But we also need to know what are our values? What are our needs? How do we spend to achieve them? In what ways can we get at our needs, the things that are most valuable to us, our priorities, our goals? Without spending any money, where am I finding myself impulse spending the most? Where am I experiencing the most discomfort when it comes to managing money? Looking at those things first is going to inform our actions. Then we can have more congruent actions that correspond with the actual need. And that's what then goes into the spending plan.

[Joe]

Where do I begin? Then do I go back through my December Expenses and go, did this really match my values?

[Doug]

Kinda, yeah. So we say start with a 90 day transaction inventory because then you get the last month, which may have been a little wonky and you get a couple months looking into that. And some people will say, oh, I don't want to use the last three months because they were very wonky. But in order to change your spending habits moving forward, you have to know what your spending habits are now. And they come from any habits or actions that you have just developed in the last three months. Not what you were doing over the summer, not what you were doing in the fall, but most recently. So when you look either copying and pasting or downloading a CSV, putting it into a Google Doc or Google Sheet or using like a budgeting app, whatever works for you and looking at all of your transactions and seeing what are the patterns, we use James Clear's Atomic habits triggers for habits to try and look at. Okay, what are the maybe preceding event? So where was I coming from or on my way to when I kept buying this thing? Or who was I with when I kept buying this thing? We're looking for habits, we're looking for patterns and then we're trying to figure out what the cues are so that we can then make changes and plans for how to change that in the future.

[Joe]

What are some of those cues to bad spending habits?

[Doug]

I use coffee all the time because it's an easy example. So getting coffee on the way to work, that is a time cue. Cause it's time of day, it's morning. It can also be a location cue. When I just drive by a Starbucks, I magically end up in the drive thru and I don't know how. So location, time, and we can't always change these things, right? Like I can't change the route I take to work. So then I would just have to be prepared beforehand with a coffee in my car to or maybe and maybe change my location from the right lane in the turning lane to going all the way to the furthest lane. So like some things you have to get creative with how you change. Or maybe like I'm stopping at happy hour on the way home from seeing my mother in law or habits like that, like what just happened, where am I, what time of day it is?

[Joe]

Hold on, that one took me a second happy hour after seeing my mother in law. I'll have a third round.

[Doug]

Yeah, so yeah, just you don't know these patterns until you actually put all the transactions into a spreadsheet and line them up. Alphabetically. And you can see, oh, look at that. And it's not. We're not looking at it with judgment. We're just looking at it with neutrality and just being like, oh, I do this because of this. How can I change?

[Joe]

I love this idea because I feel like a lot of the time and you guys completely address this. We think we can buy love and we associate things. Like as an example, Starbucks I found I went through this hypnosis thing where I figured out that I associate fast food with love. And it's. It's this bad association. It's because when I was young, we would go to General Motors where my dad worked, we pick him up at his lunch break, and we go to this fast food place because my dad didn't have a lot of time. And I just remember us sitting in the car eating chili dogs and french fries. And it was family time. And now I drive by McDonald's and I'm like, oh, there's this. I feel like, Jill, there's a lot of these associations around money. Like, I feel like if I buy stuff, then I'll get this feeling that I had.

[Jen]

Yeah, we are nostalgic creatures. I think we love it so much. We want to engage in these experiences and activities that maybe did serve us in the past. But I think it is a matter of recognizing, is it still providing me the same thing today, or are there other ways that I can meet this need? And what you're describing is really connected to something we talk about a lot, which is Maslow's hierarchy of needs. I'm sure many of us are familiar with this lovely triangle that it describes our various levels of need. At the bottom, it kind of talks about our basic needs, our need for food, shelter, safety, stability. But then above that, as we get into the top three tiers, it's talking about love and belonging needs, esteem needs, self actualization needs. And what we see when it comes to managing our money is that we will spend in order to achieve these needs. Certainly we need to spend to achieve our basic needs. Our food, clothing, shelter costs us money, but we will also spend to achieve love and belonging, to meet our esteem needs, to achieve self actualization. And this isn't reaching some level of nirvana, but really tapping into our fulfillment, feeling as though we are operating within some of our purpose. The things that make us come alive, experiencing spontaneity, creativity, all of these things. And so we can see how spending on a hobby, buying clothing that makes us feel like we're looking like our friends or getting the Thing that the neighbor has or getting the chili dog that we used to get with our parents, Whatever it is we might be spending actually to experience this hug, this feeling of belongingness, this feeling of feeling seen and feeling creative. And we don't think it's wrong to spend money. We do think spending is a skill. But there are times when we could have created a pause and asked ourselves, what is the need that I'm actually trying to get at with this spending? And if it is, I really would love to, like, reconnect with this memory of my dad. I don't know if he's still alive or not, but that could mean calling them up or it could mean talking about them with a friend or looking back at pictures or, you know, for some of us who are spending in order to keep up with the Joneses or look like our friends, could there just be other ways of finding connection that don't cost us money? And there will be times that it does? Yeah. Getting that happy hour absolutely meets all of my needs right now. But sometimes it's trying to get at this connection that might end up falling flat. And there could have been more creative ways of meeting the need if we had given ourselves the opportunity and space to problem solve in that way.

[Joe]

That's fabulous. If we turn this very positive. You have like a 4F framework of things that really seem to fit the bill for a lot of people when it comes to. These are the things that I'm really focused on that are important. Can you go through the four Fs with us?

[Doug]

Yeah, well, Maslow's hierarchy of needs has a lot of different things on it. It can be overwhelming at first. So what we have found in studies and surveys have showed that most people, at least in Western culture, have the same 4 quote unquote highest needs or highest values, things that make them happiest, and they correspond with all these higher needs on the hierarchy. And they just all happen to start with the letter F in frugal friends. We love F words, Family, friends, faith and fulfilling work. And if you think about it, the pursuit of all of these are going to hit really every single part of these higher needs. The belonging, the self esteem, the creativity, innovation, self actualization. So if we are looking at pursuing these four things first and filling our cup up in each of these things, in the capacity which our season allows. And we're looking at that every month and figuring out how we can get more of that first for free, then for lower costs than we might have been doing before. And that's where the 90 day transaction inventory is very helpful. You can find the four Fs on there and maybe you can't get it for free, but you can do it for a lot less than what you've been spending on it. And I'm thinking right now this is where we probably overspend most, is not necessarily for friendship and belonging, but it's self esteem because we're taught to, especially as women, like feel guilty when we spend. But we're not actually taught that we should be pursuing things that get us respect from others, respect from ourselves, self confidence.

[Joe]

You have a very vulnerable part of the book, Jen, when you talk about the weight loss industry and the exercise industry.

[Doug]

Well, so much. I mean, I'm a millennial and grew up in diet culture. So much of the way we consume money is modeled after the way we were taught to consume food. We are so insecure about our looks and we had a good run there for a while with like Kim Kardashian, but we're back to like anorexic chic right now. And so there is so much money to be spent on weight loss and fitness and frozen foods being sent to you and all these things that aren't inherently bad. But when you're actually trying to buy your self esteem and your self love, that's something you can never buy. And so you will keep spending money on this stuff never ending. And Ozempic is a very valuable drug in the market. But everyone thinks Ozempic is going to solve their self esteem problem and there will never be enough money that we can spend to get more and more of it. That's where we see the most overspending. And so when we just go to the source and figure out, okay, is there a lack of self fulfillment in my life? Is there a lack of fulfilling work, family, friends, some kind of spiritual practice? How do I get that first? And then if I still feel like there's lack, then how do I pay to fill that gap?

[Joe]

I love this idea. Number one, go back over the first, the last 90 days and look for habits, trends, things and go, is there a different way that I could have solved this problem instead of doing it the lazy way with more money? Then number two, diving into the four Fs, what's going to light me up more? It sounds like then step three must be, or another step then would be that's when we finally, then going forward, bring out the budget software and go, okay, instead of trying to buy my love, now I'm going to build fencing around the things that I love.

[Jen]

Absolutely. This is when the spending plan finally comes in.

[Doug]

I love building fencing around it. That's. That's a great way to look at it.

[Joe]

It's funny because we're opening this year with the two of you kicking off 2025, I think, making sure that we're focused on the right stuff. Last year, it was a guy who was talking about this idea of cowboy fencing your time. So that specifically is something I learned in 2024, was he calls it cowboy fencing to take your cattle, which is your time and the stuff that you really like. Make sure you give that time first before anything else fills up. Like you're really saying you two are saying the same stuff with your money now.

[Jen]

It's so great. One of the ways that I use to describe this is defining the constraints. And coming from a social work mental health background, this is laden with boundary conversations. And I think sometimes we can have a negative association with limitations, constraints, boundaries, but really understanding it as defining what is and isn't okay and where we can play within what are these boundary lines, the fencing, the constraints that we can set up, that then gives us the free reign to play within it and feel really comfortable and at ease and confident with the parameters that we have decided are going to exist. And so the parameters when it comes to our finances is the money that we're earning. So we want to start with the reality of the income that we're taking home month over month. This can absolutely be informative to us on whether maybe we need to look for ways to increase our income if we're not liking what we're seeing as we continue to build out this spending plan. But it needs to be based off of those numbers first. And then we're just looking at the simple categories of spending and saving, investing. It's really not much beyond that, but being able to filter it through this lens of the four Fs, the faith, family, friends, and fulfilling work. And how do I want to get at each of these categories in this new year? In what ways will that mean I'm not spending money? But in what ways will that require me to spend money? So of course we're going to have our fixed expenses on there, our housing and our bills, which usually will relate to our values of friends and family and the ways in which we utilize our space and our homes. But then beyond that, how else do I want to allocate my typical discretionary spending? And in what ways do I feel really good about spending on these things? And here's how it helps me get closer to these higher values. And also what are going to be my easy no's? What are the things that I am going to actively say? I'm not going to engage in spending on this. Maybe not for eternity, but for now there is a bit of, as I've said already, playing around. We're throwing spaghetti at the wall a little bit with our finances and deciding, okay, I think I'm going to try and say no to this category. I'm going to not eat out or I'm going to spend less on this and see what I can come up with as a result. See what creative alternatives and I find and what I might learn about myself. The things that I actually might enjoy more than the ways that I'm accustomed to throwing money to solve my problems. So filling in the gaps there, but keeping a pulse on it at least month to month to see how am I doing, what needs to shift? Is this actually getting me closer to my values? Are there other things that I can be incorporating here? Habits I can be shifting? It's going to be a journey, but hopefully it doesn't feel like deprivation.

[Joe]

What I love about this is two things. Number one is that you're not doing, Jen, what you did, which was, and I love this story in your new book, you saw you were eating at restaurants too often. So you cut that out and you cut out the thing that you love. Like by using this framework, you're not going to cut out the stuff that you love and you're like, immediately I was miserable.

[Doug]

Right? Right. Because I thought that solving my money problems would solve all my problems. But what it did was I took away the restaurant. So I took away this time I had to build relationships with people. And so that made me miserable until I realized, oh, I don't miss the food, I don't miss the noisy restaurant. I don't miss feeling guilty about how much I should tip. I miss my friends. And so I can still get that by wine nights, board game night.

[Joe]

Board game nights.

[Doug]

Board game nights, yes, with wine. And it's not, you know, it's still spending money to buy a board game and to buy a bottle of wine, but far less than what I was doing at a sit down restaurant or even frequent happy hours. And I got, you could play the.

[Joe]

Board game over and over and over and over and over.

[Doug]

I got more of what I really wanted because I identified what it was that I really wanted.

[Joe]

The second thing that I love about this approach too was Jill, a story that you had, which was about how you didn't understand how tax withholding really worked and you felt like this sense of shame. And what's cool is, is that by using this framework, it's much more playful. Like, you're like, okay, now I have power over my money and I don't have to like, I feel like so many people feel shame around their budget. And instead you give yourself permission to go, yeah, okay, I messed that up. Now I'm going to tweak and tweak and play.

[Jen]

Oh, it did not feel good. And never ever did. I think in that moment that I would tell anybody about it, much less write about it in the book. But here we are talking about how I owed the IRS so much more money than I thought, and it really created this immediate automatic shame response of I want to hide this. That's what shame causes us to want to do. And yet realizing when I look at this, when I bring it out into the open in safety between me, my husband and my accountant, and we can identify what went wrong here and what can we change in the future? And even ask myself in non judgmental ways, what was it that made me think that I wasn't going to owe this amount of money and to realize I was in a different employment situation than I had ever been before? And so it changed the dynamics and the landscape of the ways that withholding was happening. And so I was able to talk more kindly to myself with those nonjudgmental questions to say, you didn't know what you didn't know. This was new terrain for you. Now you do, and there are steps that you can take. And because you have an emergency fund and because you live below your, you know, what you earn monthly, and because you are able to implement on a plan, this is not going to break you. And you can tell others about this and you can help others with this information. And so I think a lot of our curiosity, practicing our nonjudgmental asking of questions, are allowing ourselves the space to look at some of these things that might feel a little bit shameful and shed some light on them and speak kindly to ourselves, can also lay the groundwork for being able to move forward. Well, there can be so many times that we look back and think, dang it, I wish that I would have done that, or if I only would have listened to this person, or I wish I would have started sooner or it's too late for me. These are not helpful narratives for us to adopt. They're not going to get us closer to the goals that we've set. What's really going to help is looking at the thing, bringing in trusted voices, giving ourselves permission to take time, make it individualized for us, and recognize that it is never too late. We can make good decisions starting today, do it again tomorrow, do it again the next day. And also practice gratitude for what some of these maybe difficult situations have borne inside of us. How we have the person that we're becoming as a result of some of these quote unquote failures. They have formed us and if we're able to kind of reclaim them, they can form us in some really beautiful ways.

[Joe]

Yeah, we learn when we fail, but we don't learn when we're busy high fiving ourselves. You know, I'm so excited about beginning 2025 this way, about not depriving ourself, not feeling shame, but instead feeling empowered and, you know, I guess to use my term, to build, fencing around the. Around those things that we love so we can do more of that in 2025. Believe it or not, this is about 5% of the stuff you've packed into your book on this topic, which drops tomorrow, which has more around the framework to use a lot of these lightning round things which are, you know, it's not about what you know, it's about what you do. So I love at the end of every chapter there's do this exercise, do this, do this, do this. And it also, what I love about this discussion is, and I think you do a great job of talking about this too. The first place to start isn't what app do I use? Or what spreadsheet do I use. Like that's much, much, much later on once you have the things that we talked about today and, and more. By the way, two ideas in the book that I love that we didn't get to. Number one, there is a place for earning more money and how to have that in your framework. I used to think that making more money would solve all my problems. That's a lie. But there is a place for making more money. And then number two, I really like your chapter near the end of the book on simplifying. I just thought the whole idea of simplifying your space as I look around, simplifying your space, simplifying your life, simplifying, like really making 2025 a simpler year was great. It's called buy what you love without going broke. And I have to assume it's available everywhere.

[Doug]

Everywhere that you buy books, everywhere you look. We do love when people buy from bookshop.org or your local bookshop.

[Joe]

Yeah, give some love to your local bookshop in 2025. I was actually very happy to hear that. Even the big chains Barnes and Noble opening new stores in 2025 because of book talk.

[Jen]

That is awesome.

[Doug]

I actually do love Barnes and Noble too. It's accessible even maybe when there isn't a local bookstore nearby.

[Joe]

So, yeah, if I can sit around books versus have one sent to me, I get so much inspiration. Well, Jill and Jen, thank you so much for mentoring our stackers today. Happy New Year, ladies.

[Jen]

Happy New Year. Thanks for having us. Your basement.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[OG]

Hey there, stackers. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and this preparation thingy is so damn frustrating. All this paperwork and website checking. It's amazing I ever get time for wordle after all this work I do for the podcast. Well, I think I finally hit rock bottom. I mean, because it's January 6th and it seems nothing ever has happened in History on January 6th. Nothing. Zip, zilch, nada. Oh, oh, wait. Oh, here we go. There was that one time when these goons stormed a facility on January 6, pretending to be normal citizens and took out figure skater Nancy Kerrigan. Wait, I see that look in your eye. What did you think I was gonna say? Sometimes I really wonder about you. Here's the question. Who influenced the goons to play whack a mole on Nancy Kerrigan's shin? I'll be back with the answer right after I go tell the vice president of our HOA what a moron he is. You're going down, vp.

[Joe]

Many of you may remember that metpro founder Angelo Poli is on our show a ton. And the reason we have Angelo back is because he is such an expert on the science of diet and exercise. You may know or you may not know that a few years ago when I asked about metpro, they agreed to furnish me with a coach for a while named Jesse. And to this day, I still work with Jesse because diet and exercise are such an important part of my regime. And they should be, frankly, of years too, in 2025. You want to achieve big things. You need some big health to go with that fat wallet that we're trying to help you create. The team at metpro has just helped me. They've helped thousands of individuals help perform their bodies by hacking their metabolism. If you're looking for a high touch experience working with a metabolic expert or you want access to the tools their industry leading coaches use, visit MetPro Co SB. You'll get a complimentary assessment like I had and then speak to their team to learn which option is best for you. Here's what I like. Whenever I'm eating stuff that shouldn't go in my mouth, whenever I'm avoiding working out, which is something that I aspire to always do, I think of Jesse and I think about I don't want to let myself down and Jesse's going to hold me accountable. We all need accountability coaches in our corner. But even better, Jesse's not just holding me accountable, she's holding me accountable to a more scientific approach. And if you haven't heard Angela Poly on our show, not only should you sign up for the assessment with MetPro, but you should also go back and listen because you'll hear the science. One of my favorite Angelo Poly lines Everything works until it doesn't. All those fad diets work until they don't. And when they don't, the boomerang effect is pretty horrible. So to take advantage of this opportunity to get a complimentary assessment from MetPro, go to MetPro co. It's not.com it's.co MetPro co SB and you're going to get a complimentary metabolic profiling assessment. A one on one consultation with a MetPro coach like my coach Jesse to help you achieve your goals this year. Course results may vary. MetPro is not a medical organization. The service is not intended to treat any illness, disease or adverse medical condition.

[OG]

How high is the interest rate for the new Laurel Road High Yield Savings Account?

[Joe]

This is high.

[OG]

The air is really, really thin up here. The Laurel Road Very High Yield Savings Account.

[Jill]

Variable annual percentage yield APY is subject to change at any time. No minimum balance required. Fees may reduce earnings on the account. For full terms and conditions, see laurelroad.com savings Laurel Road is a brand of KeyBank member FDIC.

[OG]

Hey there, Ryan Reynolds here. It's a new year and you know what that means. No, not the diet resolution.

[Joe]

A way for us all to try.

[OG]

And do a little bit better than.

[Doug]

We did last year.

[OG]

And my resolution, unlike big wireless, is to not be a raging and raise the price of wireless on you every chance I get. Give it a [e-mail] switch $45 upfront.

[Joe]

Payment required equivalent to $15 per month.

[Doug]

New customers on first 3 month plan.

[Jill]

Only taxes and fees.

[Doug]

Extra speed slower above 40gb on unlimited.

[Jill]

See mintmobile.com for details.

[OG]

Hey there stackers. I'm Mr. Pat and Guy who knows how to do a double axel on your trivia question. Joe's mom's neighbor Doug. In a move that cost Nancy Kerrigan a ton of Benjamins, not to mention a career, Today's question asks, who was it that on today's date in history, influenced goons to wallop Kerrigan so she could hopefully become figure skating champion? If you said Tonya Harding, you'd be correct. You can even watch it all unfold again in the privacy of your own home in the brilliant film I, Tanya, starring Margot Robbie. And now back to two guys who are the pairs competition winners in this podcast, Joe and OG.

[Joe]

Huge thanks to Jen and Jill. And. And you know what, Og? There's a couple things that I really want to emphasize here. Number one, just the fact that they didn't start with your budget. They didn't start with software. Right. They started with, I really enjoy going out to dinner. What I really enjoy is this time I spend with my friends. So instead, if. If I need to save money, maybe we do friends, you know, meetups at each other's house versus spending the money at a restaurant. Or when I go to a restaurant, I really go to one that I enjoy. Like, thinking about what it is that lights me up. I love the fact that when Jen goes, I'm cutting out restaurants. Like, her social life went to hell. Her enjoyment of life went to hell because she was starting with her budget and not what she really liked. Like, I love that fact.

[Jill]

It doesn't hurt to ask the question why a couple times, right? Like, I'm going to cut this out or I'm going to do this instead. It's like, you can just ask why? Like she said, what's the main, you know, if you ask what or why a couple times, you're going to run into what the main outcome is that you're searching for here. Quite often it's not about the money.

[Joe]

Exactly. This is the reason why so many of us are anti budget, Right? Because we think it's cutting the fun out of our life. And yet when she started asking your question why, like, her life got better and she spent less money. The second thing I wanted to emphasize was Jill talking about, you know what? At some point, it was about making more money because. And you've dealt with this in your career, Right. There are times where you're like, you know what? I can help you try to cut more, but then you're cutting out living, and we don't want to cut that. We want to live more. And guess what you got to do? We got to find a way to make more money.

[Jill]

Yeah. I mean, we can all remember different times in our lives where we've had different incomes. My first year as a financial planner, I made $10,000 and I thought, gosh, if I could make 30, you know, next year, 30 would be amazing. And then if I could make 60, 60 would free up all the capacity in the universe. There's some space between zero and some number where it helps a ton to add that increase. But if you don't have the systems or you don't have the right mindset going into it, like you've talked about before, Joe, it's like if you're making 100 grand and you think making 150 is going to make all your problems go away, some of them will go away, but some of them will get magnified. Also, if you don't have a good saving plan when you have 100 grand, you're not going to have a good savings plan when you have 150. It's just going to magnify the ineptitude there. So some of its systems and process and some of its mindset and some of its just actually getting after it. But it's probably the combination of all those things, depending on where you are, which is going to have the biggest impact right away.

[Joe]

Yeah. And I think that even starts off with why as well, if you want to make more money. And you missed our Alex Hormozi episodes from last Wednesday and Friday. I'd go back and start there. But definitely, once you've done that, ask, why am I spending money on this stuff? One thing I liked about Hormozi, to bring him up, og remember at the beginning of that interview, he's like, yeah, I don't spend money differently than I did. There's nothing I buy now that I couldn't afford before for him making more money.

[Jill]

To be fair, he did say when he made 20 million or something. It's like, you're right. When you're making 20 million, there's probably not a big difference between 20 and 100. I mean, there's probably something.

[Joe]

Well, he was talking about when he was broke. Even when he was broke, he's like.

[Jill]

I don't know that he was talking about when he was broke. I bet he flies in a different place in the airplane than he did when he was broke, for example, or.

[Joe]

Whatever he might think of. $20 million is, bro.

[Jill]

What he was comparatively only 20 million.

[OG]

He flies with you?

[Joe]

Yeah, with me.

[OG]

You fly in the airplane?

[Jill]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

Let's move on to our headline.

[Doug]

Hello, darlings. And now it's Time for your favorite part of the show, our stacking Benjamin's headlines.

[Joe]

Hey, once you've made money, then you start investing money. And then you know what the logical thing to do is, OG it's to check your investments over and over and over. Or that that's not the next logical thing.

[Jill]

Over and over. I was going to say blow it. Once you found money and made money, blow the cash. Waste it incessantly. Stay on the treadmill, the consumerism treadmill, for your entire life. That's how the economy works.

[Joe]

If I can keep this thing going. Yeah, I know they said that I should live mindfully, but who cares?

[Jill]

Yeah, who cares?

[Joe]

This story comes from the Wall Street Journal. Doug, you brought this to our attention. More men are addicted to the, quote, crack cocaine of the stock market this year.

[OG]

That's not at all where I thought that headline was going to end, by the way. Men are addicted to.

[Joe]

This is written by a writer, Gungeon Banjeri. And Gungeon writes, a new type of addict is showing up at Gamblers Anonymous meetings across the country. Investors hooked on the market's riskiest trades. At Gamblers Anonymous in the Murray Hill neighborhood of Manhattan, one man called options the, quote, crack cocaine of the stock market. Another said he faced hundreds of thousands of dollars in trading losses after borrowing from a loan shark to double down on stocks. And one young man brought his mom and girlfriend to celebrate one year since his last stock market bet. This is a real problem, OG Maybe not just checking it all the time, but going, oh, I think I might be able to do a little bit more. I think I might be able to do a little better.

[Jill]

Well, I always come back to the idea here that I think the symptom of this is thinking that you're too far behind. You know, if you look at the whole pressure of social media and Instagram and the whole yolo thing and, you know, all that sort of lifestyle philosophy type thing, people don't post their days on Facebook or Instagram.

[Jen]

Right.

[Jill]

Generally speaking, it's like, look at me, I'm in the Greek Islands, you know, with my beautiful girlfriend. And it's. It's not like. And then I'll be paying this off for the next 15 years at 29% to Chase. Like, nobody does that part of it. You know what I mean? Or there seriously are influencers, and they don't necessarily disclose that, yeah, I did all this, but this was paid for by the Ritz Carlton and by Emirates Airlines, and they gave me a spending allowance to come here and there's stuff that we don't see. We just see the picture, which I guess is the whole definition of advertising. But when you have all that and you combine it with the market and you see people who do things like post their net, I'm doing this for accountability. Are you doing it for accountability? Are you doing it to show off or what you think is showing off? It's the first of the year. I'm going to update my net worth everybody. I'm at X dollars, you know. And you post it anonymously, air quotes anonymously on Reddit. I've seen this for the last two weeks. I think that the downside to that, some of it is accountability, but some of it is the downside of then there's people who look at that and go, oh my gosh, I'm 30, I'm 40. I don't have anywhere near that kind of money. I'm 50. I don't have anywhere near that. I'm way behind. Now your brain starts working on like these crazy outcomes of how can I get caught back up? And it's no different than putting 20 bucks on the football game and then going, wait a second, if I also do 20 bucks on the football game plus Jared Goff to throw for four touchdowns, plus Jameer Gibbs to run for two, plus for Dan Campbell to throw his headset once, I could put $20 to turn into $20,000. There's a reason that these outcomes are so outlandish when you just. I did, I had, I had bad grades in statistics. I got like a B minus, barely passed lips above water. But there's a reason why Las Vegas has got beautiful buildings. They're pretty smart with statistics, they're pretty smart with the odds. And so when you see that there's a hundred to one payoff, that means you're going to lose a hundred times the money before you get one of those right? And then there's a house edge on top of that. That's not them breaking even, you know what I mean? So extrapolate that all to the market. And the cost of doing this trade, the cost of zero date options is almost zero. You can do it with 500 bucks in a nanosecond. I think it's all this symptom of like, I'm way behind. I need to catch up.

[Joe]

Well, I wonder if it is just being behind because I do think, you know, there have been times that you'll see people betting and I don't know that it's behind. I think there is an Addictive quality to this could give me a bunch of money right now, like, the quick payoff. You know what I mean? Like, don't get me wrong, I do think there's a lot of people that think I'm behind, but there's also people that are ahead that are addicted to gambling. You know, there's some multi millionaires and billionaires that you hear these, quote, whales that Las Vegas loves to have there because they're addicted to the whale.

[Jill]

But the negative outcome for that for them is not profound, right? Like, does it matter?

[Joe]

Right?

[Jill]

Like, the pervasiveness of gambling. One of the things that it says is don't bet more than you can afford to lose, right? So if you have $10 million in your bank account and you're putting a hundred bucks on blackjack, somebody might think that's an insane amount of money to bet on a blackjack hand. Another person might go, I don't, you know, I don't care if I win or lose this. I can afford to entertain myself. And that's. That's another piece of it, too. I think I actually heard this on YouTube. I was watching a video of a guy playing slots. I don't know why. I think the kids call that brain rot is what I was doing during the holiday break. But anyways, the guy added up, he's like, this is how much money I've spent at the casino, and this is how much I've won and lost for the year. And it was, you know, he lost money, but he was like, I basically spent all of my free time here, and it cost me, you know, 1800 bucks. He's like, so for $1,800, I had all this entertainment for the entire year. I don't know what the right answer is there for that kind of stuff, but everybody thinks, like, there was no cost to getting rid of commissions, getting rid of transaction fees, getting rid of account management fee, you know, like, I don't know. I guess there is a cost, huh?

[Joe]

It is interesting just the amount of times we've talked about having just a little bit of friction. Having just a little bit of friction between you and making dumb moves. And to your point, while nobody likes these fees on these investments, having that friction, I think stopped a ton of this behavior, because it even says in this piece that many of the men and scores of others around the country discovered trading embedding during the pandemic that began in 2020. Some are drawn in by big whims and meme stocks, others viral stock sensations, leading them into even higher octane wagers that offer the chance to put up a small amount of cash for a potentially mammoth return or more often, a crushing loss. I think it was boredom. I mean, part of this stemmed just from the boredom and monotony and oh my goodness, look what I can do on my phone. And it's not betting, Og. This isn't betting. This is quote investing.

[Jill]

I'm investing. Right. Well, I suppose we could go down a lot of rabbit holes of the dopamine hits of social media and the gamification of all of these apps and that sort of thing, But I want.

[Joe]

To go down one other rabbit hole, though, which I think leads to some of these dangerous activities. And I remember this is quite a while ago, but one of those cartoons in the newspaper that isn't so much funny as it is the truth. And it's this woman and her friend and they open up a door like a back bedroom of their house, and they see the man sitting at the computer and he's typing and he's got all this paper around him and the woman's telling her friend, she's like, yeah, after he retired last year, this is, this is what he does with all of his free time. And the joke being he never retired. He retired from a job to spending all day looking at his investments on his computer. I know a person in my family and they were having a discussion last week during the holidays about four different other people. They know that they spent about half their day just watching the stock market and watching their investments. I don't think that's a, Is that a retirement? Like, is that really what I want to do with my time?

[Jill]

I think that's a rhetorical question.

[OG]

It definitely isn't. If they're watching it because they're stressed and they're wondering, do I have enough money to, you know, to keep my Amazon subscription going, then it's definitely not a retirement. That's not what you want to do.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[OG]

I can't wait for Kevin to link to this in the 201 because it's well worth the read for a lot of our listeners. When you see what length some of the people they interviewed for the article, what they were going to. And like, at first I thought, is this an addiction? Really? Is this another one of those air quote addictions? And then you see what they were doing, how it was impacting their lives and how it was changing the course of their daily lives or, and, or their future. It's, it's pretty jaw dropping. I would recommend the Read, oh, yeah.

[Joe]

Some of the stories in here, Doug, to your point, just a pit in your stomach.

[OG]

Yeah.

[Joe]

One guy stands up, says, hi, my name is Mitch, and I'm a compulsive gambler. Of course. The group then says, hi, Mitch. And Mitch's story, the Suburban Data. Three, slightly balding with a big smile, stood in front of more than a dozen members in a church basement. He's haunted by the rising price of bitcoin and the riches that could have been his. He said, up around 40% since election day, bitcoin prices are on a wild ride. What would have happened, he wondered out loud, if he just left his bitcoin in a digital wallet and handed over to his wife? Then he reminded himself and the group that he was never able to just buy and hold. I needed more and more and more. Mitch told the group, I'm a sick, impulsive gambler. That's why I keep making these meetings. I don't trust myself. Lost tons and tons and tons of money because he just couldn't stop.

[OG]

And there's other stories where people were like, I can get it back. I just need this one thing. You know, it's the same as whether you're betting on horses or it's just another form of.

[Jill]

Well.

[Joe]

And I think the get it back thing speaks to Og's discussion about, I think I'm behind because that's dangerous. You lose money and then you double down. Right. Oh, the number six horse has got to win some race. It's got to be the next one he's due. Yeah, not gonna. Not gonna work. I do. I agree, Doug. We will dive more into this and lots of other Topics in the 201 in 20, 25. If you don't get the 201, it's free. It comes every week to your mailbox. Also, as Og, Doug and I go around the country, we have meetups. When you get the 201, we can tell you when we're coming to your area. Especially, you know, if you miss a show. I always. I always get notes, and I got one right after. We were in New York City, and we had such a great time in New York, but I got notes the day after. Hey, how come I didn't know you were coming to New York? Well, we said it, like, 67 times.

[Jill]

We specifically excluded you.

[Joe]

That's why didn't want you to come. Mission accomplished.

[OG]

Plus, sometimes it's better not to be surprised. Like when I'm just standing outside your window, like, knocking on your window, like, what the hell is he doing here? It's better to know ahead of time.

[Joe]

Doug is my diet coach. He's like, hey, lay off those nachos while you're. While you're watching Netflix in bed. Very slightly creepy, but it works, Doug. It does work. I've lost a bunch of weight.

[OG]

I'm effective at terrifying people.

[Jill]

How did you know that I was eating nachos at bed? Again.

[Joe]

Let'S. Before we say goodbye, let's journey out to the back porch. By the way, It's a stacking Benjamins.com201 to get the two on. Let's journey out to the back porch. And we had some clarification, Doug. On last week's episode. Oh, gee, you were referencing what you thought was a movie. You couldn't remember exactly what it was. And some of our stackers. Doug apparently knew what OG was referring to.

[Jill]

I generally remember everything, so I don't think this is me.

[Joe]

I thought it was an episode of Black Mirror. So he was talking about people that.

[Jill]

Go around that show before.

[Joe]

People that go around with like a timer on their. I don't know if it's on their sleeve or whatever, but people have a timer on their life. And you can sell your time.

[OG]

Yeah.

[Joe]

To buy stuff. Yes. And it wasn't Black Mirror Douglas.

[OG]

No, I hadn't heard of it either. It's a great concept. I mean, I generally don't love sci fi and fantasy and those genres, but the ones like Black Mirror or this concept that really make you pause and think about deeper issues, that is going to pull me in. So I want to go watch this movie.

[Jill]

I'm.

[OG]

I'm intrigued.

[Jill]

Well, what's the name of it?

[Joe]

What's it called, Doug? And who told us about it since learning.

[Jill]

I didn't watch the movie. I just saw clips of it on YouTube to be fair.

[OG]

Well, after that last discussion, one of our now favorite stackers sent us a note. And Nate Banner said the movie we were referring to in the latest podcast was called In Time. And I don't know how I haven't heard of this, because it starred Justin Timberlake and Amanda Seyfried, I think is how you pronounce her name, isn't it?

[Joe]

Siegfried?

[OG]

No, no, no. Well, I don't know. It's S E Y F R I E D. So shoot. By the way, she's incredible actress. She did a great job with the.

[Joe]

With that movie. You can't remember with the movie.

[OG]

I can't remember now. It was a. It was a docudrama about A movie about the stuff. About the stuff. The woman who was a total scammer who built the blood blood testing equipment that never worked.

[Joe]

Theranos.

[OG]

Yeah, Theranos. And she was unbelievable in that. Anyway, Nate says good sci fi film. Another movie which predates Star wars about limited time with the sci fi classics. Logan's Run. Great episode. Pausing and unpacking the concepts from Alex. Look forward to part two. So thank you, Nate. And sounds like we've got some homework. Gotta go see in time.

[Joe]

Nate got part two on Friday. Hope you liked it, Nate. I think that's gonna do it for today. On that note, big thanks to Jen and Jill. Well, you know what? Doug's going to thank everybody. But before Doug thanks everybody, he's going to tell us lots to learn from today's episode. But what do you think, Doug? Are the top three?

[OG]

Well, Joe, here's what's stacked up on our to do list for today. First, take some advice from Jen and Jill. Frugal is not the same as cheap. Want to have a better 2025? Don't change your budget. Change your mindset. You can focus on buying those things that actually light you up and forget the rest. Second, checking your portfolio every day. Stop that. Just stop it. You're gonna go blind. But the big lesson, don't remind Joe's mom about the film. I Tonya. She'll start putting thoughts in your head about Todd down at the Sizzler. She says I should throw shrimp tails at him until he brings us a decent sized potato. Seriously, if I wanted tater tots, Todd, I would have ordered them. Sometimes I think his brain is a tater tot. Oh, that's a good one. That's a good one. I'll have to use that the next time I see him. But then again, he'll probably take it the wrong way. He'll think I'm joking. Thanks to Jen and Jill from Frugal Friends for joining us today. You'll find their new book, Buy what yout Love Without Going Broke, wherever books are sold. But if you use our link, you'll also help the show and get your Frugal house in order. We'll include link links in our show [e-mail] this show is the property of SB Podcasts, LLC, Copyright 2024 and is created by Joe Salsihai. Joe gets help from a few of our neighborhood friends. You'll find out about our awesome [e-mail] along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello.

[Joe]

Oh, yeah.

[OG]

And before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don't take advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and we'll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show.

[Joe]

Doug, you just dug up some interesting stuff on Amazon.

[OG]

Yeah, so when you say dug up, I immediately imagined that old film Poltergeist where they realized they're living in a graveyard. And like you're digging up all these horrific spirits because. Yeah, so it's New Year's Eve, we're sitting doing nothing because New Year's Eve sucks and I'm looking at the Amazon.

[Joe]

Hold on a second. You make New Year's Eve suck because you choose you.

[OG]

You said no, disagree.

[Joe]

You sent me a text on New Year's that looked like a. Didn't you? Weren't you the one that sent me the. It looked like a Ticketmaster ticket.

[OG]

No, you didn't.

[Jill]

No, it was two pictures of his dog.

[OG]

Pictures of the dogs.

[Joe]

Oh, I thought you. So a friend of mine, and I totally thought it was you, sent me something that looks like a Ticketmaster ticket. Let me find it. Oh, I have it here. And it says it's TicketMaster. It says December 31, 2024, and it says the event stay home and do nothing section. VIP couch, row A, seat one. And I was sure you said that to me.

[Jill]

You know, last year we were at the Rose Bowl. Great way, by the way, to start 2024 and to end 2024 with a thorough ass kicking of Alabama. You know, we were in la, but usually for New Year's Eve, we always stay in, but we just cook. And so we just cook a meal and people will say, hey, what are you guys doing? We're like, oh, we're having dinner. You're more than welcome. And hardly anyone ever comes, but we have a nice slab of beef and some wine and special potatoes, cheesy potatoes or something like that, you know, twice baked this year. And yeah, have a good go of it. Nice meal. And being in the central time zone, it's fantastic because we just watched the ball drop at 10:59pm which is only 29 minutes past my bedtime. So I can stay up late and. Oh, that's New Year somewhere. See ya. Good night. Bed by 1105. It's perfect.

[OG]

Yeah. So I don't know. The reason, I guess I say it.

[Jill]

Sucks is because you're screwing around and you're playing.

[OG]

Every other piece of media tells you that you should be having just so much fun that your brain can't even focus on regular life, that you're just in this. This bliss that you're just floating through with just a giant smile on your face. And you know it does. I've been to lots of parties. I've gone to events to try to re. You know, it just doesn't happen. I think everybody tries too hard. So, anyways, we're hanging out.

[Joe]

There's a common denominator there. OG Doug's like, I've tried over and over. There's a common denominator.

[OG]

I invite myself places.

[Jill]

Every time I show up, the party sucks.

[Joe]

Exactly. I wonder. But anyway, on to Amazon.

[OG]

Yeah. So I'm sitting there, I'm scrolling through the Amazon app, and I was looking for something, but I can't remember what was causing me. And I'm deep into, like, my account, and there's a link there that says you can request your data. Oh, I like data a lot. I like spreadsheets and I like doing some analysis on some stuff. So I request the data, thinking, this is going to take like a week. And inside of like, 20 minutes, I get a zip file from Amazon with 16 folders inside the. Inside that zip file of a lot more detail than I was expecting to get. And one of them, which was retail. If you're going to do this yourself, you're looking for retail order history is the folder, and of the 16, that's the one you're probably most interested in. If you have a misguided, weak moment, as I did, and think, I wonder how much I've spent on Amazon. So I open retail order. Yeah. Oh, this is. This is literally what's happening. As the ball is dropping, as I'm. I'm getting this.

[Jill]

That's a.

[OG]

You know. From Amazon.

[Jill]

Yes.

[OG]

Right.

[Joe]

Is it singular?

[OG]

Well, some of us had complicated medical history, Joe. And so. And I open up this file and it's every purchase I've ever made. I thought maybe it was going to be for the year or something. It is your life on Amazon, which, you know, for a lot of us mirrors your life. So it goes back to 2005.

[Jill]

What was your first?

[OG]

We made one purchase. Our early purchases suck.

[Joe]

He can't say it on air.

[Jill]

I know.

[OG]

Oh, I totally can, which is embarrassing. But this is the first purchase. The first purchase. The first, like, five Purchases are books.

[Jill]

Books. Yeah.

[OG]

And the first purchase.

[Jill]

What books?

[OG]

It. It's a book IT Service Management Foundation's ITIL study guideline, which is. It's a whole IT framework. You know, just boring. Boring. And then. So that was the only purchase in 2005.

[Joe]

That's back when we thought of Amazon as a bookstore, though.

[OG]

Yeah. Right. So that was November, the end of 05. That was in November. Then we. We wait a long time. We do nothing in 06. And by the way, 05 is when Amazon prime started. So I'm not sure. We probably weren't paying for prime at that point, but there was probably enough media buzz about this new Amazon thing that we decided, hey, let's look more into it. Then nothing in 06. And then 07, two purchases, more books. And then in 08, the third purchase. This is when things really get exciting. A Beginner's Guide to Spanish.

[Joe]

Can it get more exciting?

[OG]

Oh, it gets so much better. There's also a kid's sheet music in there. When our kids were begging us to learn piano, said no kid ever. But. But we bought Days Go by sheet music for children's piano. And you know, it doesn't get good. It doesn't really get good. Let's see here if I can find it. We bought a lava lamp.

[Joe]

Wait a minute. Is it. Is it Days Go By? It's probably like the 19, early 1900 song days go By. It's not the. It's not the song. That's the theme music to half the car commercials in America. Days Go by and Days Go by by Keith Urban. Oh, by Keith Urban.

[OG]

Sheet music for Keith Urban. Because at that time, one of our early interns here on the show loved Keith Urban.

[Joe]

Or I'm thinking about the kind of techno Y1. You know the one I'm thinking of?

[OG]

No, no, I don't.

[Joe]

It's like car commercial after car commercial. Use this.

[OG]

Interspersed with all of this are more really boring IT books.

[Joe]

It's the best after show ever.

[OG]

OG yeah, but here's where it gets good. So I quizzed the folks that are still in the house here for the holidays. How much do you think we've spent in 19 years on Amazon, on Amazon? Do I want this out on?

[Joe]

Is it more than 8 bucks?

[OG]

It's more than $8. It's a five digit number.

[Joe]

It's a five digit number.

[OG]

Oh, yeah. It's solidly in the five digits for 19 years.

[Joe]

Is it halfway up five digits?

[OG]

It's more than halfway up five digits.

[Joe]

I think that's probably specific enough.

[OG]

Yeah, that is a good number.

[Joe]

You guys like convenience and you don't like going out. I mean, we've already established that when you go to New Year's parties, you suck. So you try not to go.

[OG]

Stay home and cruise Amazon.

[Joe]

Let the Amazon person bring it to you.

[OG]

Yep.

[Jill]

I just like the. So I did this request also, but you can just click through the order history and go year by year. I just like the volume that changes, you know, as the years go on. So 2013. Our first order was in 2001. 2013, 51 orders. 2014, 60 here. Let's jump ahead to 2023.

[OG]

Wait, are you getting counts or did you do some like.

[Jill]

It's just on the app.

[OG]

Did you do a pivot?

[Jill]

No, no, I'm just looking online. 84 orders in 23, 85, and 24. I guess that's where we are. Maybe 80 orders. So basically, twice a week, almost a.

[Joe]

50% gain in the last 10 years.

[Jill]

One hundred and eight in 2001. Let's go to 2020, when Covid happened.

[Joe]

One hundred and eight. Oh, yeah, Covid.

[Jill]

One hundred and fifteen.

[OG]

So you want to know what my 2024 was?

[Jill]

Sure.

[OG]

Just number of orders.

[Jill]

Go ahead.

[OG]

261.

[Joe]

Oh, I think we have a winner.

[Jill]

Wow.

[Joe]

I'd love to hear. Either email me or put it in mom's basement in our Facebook group. The basement. How some of yours look. Whatever stackers you want to share about your Amazonification.

[Jill]

So what was your total, Doug, in.

[OG]

14 years orders or total?

[Jill]

Total dollars. $70,000.

[OG]

I don't think I want this on the air. Over 50, but below $100,000 total since 2005? Yes. More than 50, less than $100,000.

[Jill]

Okay. I mean, 14 years divided by 70 is what, three grand a year on Amazon?

[OG]

19.

[Jill]

Four grand a year on average? 20 years. Is that what you said?

[OG]

Almost 20. Well, 2005 to 2024 is 19 years.

[Jill]

Oh, yeah, I guess so.

[Joe]

We'd love to continue this discussion, but we got to get back to Amazon. Oh, if you're using Amazon, you're not using our link. You should definitely be hitting the Show Notes first.

[OG]

Think of how much money I would have made this show had all of this. Click through to our link.

[Joe]

What are you doing? What are you doing? Go to the Show Notes, click on our Amazon link to Jen and Jill's book, and then go shop on Amazon. It's just one more stop.

[OG]

You want to end it with that?

[Joe]

Seems like a commercial at the end.

[OG]

Yeah. This whole thing was a setup. Drink. Drink your Ovaltine.

[Joe]

I laughed so hard, I hit my mouth on the mic.

[OG]

Joe's got a fat lip from his mic. Now he's laughing so hard.

[Joe]

Geez.