How to Give Back Without Being Rich + Building a Smarter Retirement Plan

Summary

Podcast Summary: How to Give Back Without Being Rich + Building a Smarter Retirement Plan

The Stacking Benjamins Show — December 17, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode brings together the core Stacking Benjamins team—Joe Saul-Sehy, OG, regular contributor Jesse Kramer, and neighbor Doug—for an engaging conversation that blends personal finance insights with the warm camaraderie and humor for which the show is known. The main focus is twofold:

1. Charitable Giving Without Wealth:
   An in-depth interview with John Studzinski, Vice Chairman at Pimco and founder of the Genesis Foundation, explores how anyone can give back meaningfully, regardless of their financial status. Studzinski challenges traditional notions of philanthropy and redefines the idea of giving to include talents, time, and connections—not just money.

2. Building a Smarter Retirement Plan:
   A practical roundtable discussion dives into new research and thinking around optimal retirement portfolio design, primarily reflecting on recent comments from Vanguard about balancing equity exposure, behavioral tendencies, and income needs as we age.

The episode aims to broaden listener perspectives on generosity and retirement, while maintaining the show’s trademark mix of actionable advice and levity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rethinking Charitable Giving — with John Studzinski

Moving Beyond "Philanthropy"

• Language Matters:
  Studzinski dislikes the word “philanthropy,” as it conjures images of wealth, institutions, and a removed elite. He prefers “giving” as an accessible, universal act.

  “If you’re trying to motivate a young person or a person who's not a philanthropist, they immediately say, that's not me. It's associated with large sums of money, establishment, bricks and mortar. ... I like to look at it as the context of giving.” (John Studzinski, 07:29)

The True Meaning of “Talent” in Giving

• Biblical Reference & Practical Application:
  Drawing on the parable of the talents, Studzinski frames "talent" as a blend of skills, time, and personal qualities—not just monetary means. He encourages everyone to “unearth” and share their unique abilities.

  “We all are given talent by God that we bury. ... Some of the most interesting talent—certainly as it relates to giving—is probably at this point buried.” (John Studzinski, 09:03)

Giving: Transaction vs. Partnership

• Charity vs. Philanthropy:
  • Charity is often transactional—giving as a quick solution or for tax benefits.
  • Philanthropy is a long-term partnership, about walking alongside someone to empower them.

  “Charity is transactional...Philanthropy is a partnership—you're not just giving someone a fish, you're teaching them to fish and walking with them while they learn.” (14:32)

Impact Starts "One Person at a Time"

• Focus and Humility:
  Studzinski recounts Mother Teresa’s guidance that effecting change isn’t about scale; changing one life can be enough.

  “Mother Teresa always said, don't be too ambitious...focus on changing the world one person at a time.” (John Studzinski, 16:17)

Giving Without Money: The “Portfolio of Talents”

• Time, Skills, Convening Power, and Tenacity:
  • Organizing, connecting, volunteering, advocating, and using technology are valuable forms of giving.
  • Money, while important, is not the only—or even most transformative—resource.

  “It's actually wrong. And you're doing yourself a disservice by giving money [only]. It's relatively cold and transactional...if you give your time and volunteer, or your power of convening...you can accomplish a lot.” (John Studzinski, 17:59)

Discovering Your Talents & The Importance of Mentorship

• Mentors Multiply Giving:

  • Powerful, accessible talents often emerge when acting on problems you care about or when others help you recognize your strengths.
  • Mentoring is reciprocal and beneficial to both parties.

  “Every time you mentor someone, you learn a lot about yourself...It helps unpack your own thought processes.” (John Studzinski, 28:28)

• Mentorship Approach:

  • Authentic mentorship relationships often start with mutual recognition or mentors reaching out to those they see as promising.

  “A lot of mentors actually choose their mentees because they're people they see as having promise.” (John Studzinski, 31:14)

Building a Generous Society

• Common Good & Community:
  The philosophy should be “our goals, our Father, our good”—emphasizing collective benefit and interconnected progress.

  “Whether we like it or not, the notion of common good is probably one of the fundamental parts of civilization.” (John Studzinski, 32:50)

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2. Smarter Retirement Planning — The Vanguard Perspective

The Problem with “Optimal on Paper” Portfolios

• Behavioral Realities Trump Theory:
  While an all-stock (equities) portfolio might maximize long-term returns, individual risk tolerance and behavioral responses to losses often make this unsustainable.

  “If you can't stomach sharp market swings, the ‘best’ strategy on paper isn't always the right one in practice.” (46:26)

Don’t “Blow Up” Your Plan

• Emotional reactions to volatility cause people to sell low or chase returns, undermining success.
• Set expectations realistically: If you expect a -10% drop but see -20%, you're likely to make poor decisions.

Solving for Your Goals First

• Assess what rate of return gets you to your personal goals. If you can succeed with moderate exposure (e.g., a 50/50 portfolio), don’t take unnecessary risks.

  “A lot of times we're surprised by the fact that we don't actually have to be as aggressive as we think to reach the goals we want.” (Jesse Kramer, 46:26)

• But consider: Higher returns can open up more opportunities for legacy, charity, or spending.

  “Why wouldn't you want to…open up other opportunities down the line, like giving or spending more?” (OG, 50:09)

Human Capital Theory & Risk Tolerance

• The older you get, the less “human capital” (future earnings potential) you have, and the more important it becomes to protect what you’ve built.
• As you approach retirement, dollar losses feel more real and threaten short-term goals.

  “The older you are, the more likely you are to mess up your portfolio.” (OG, 50:09)

The Role of Annuities for Risk-Averse Retirees

• Even conservative, low-cost annuitized annuities can help simulate the "steady paycheck" feeling, easing anxiety and allowing higher equity allocations with greater confidence.

  “For very conservative people…a low-cost immediate annuity could work because it creates a pension stream that…brings up that paycheck feeling.” (OG, 57:01)

Practice “Portfolio Fire Drills”

• Regularly walk through scenarios: What if your portfolio drops by $20,000? $200,000? What concrete decisions would you make?

  “Put yourself in that position at a time...Do the fire drill ahead of time.” (OG, 60:27)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the False Divide Between Giving and Receiving:

  "Is there such a thing as pure altruism? If you think you’re going to do good, does that mean you get nothing in return? ... You might still get something in return in terms of a sense of goodwill."
  (John Studzinski, 14:32)

• On Asking for Mentorship:

  “You have to know someone pretty well to ask them to be your mentor. And you have to know yourself pretty well to know what you actually need and what you’re looking for.”
  (John Studzinski, 31:14)

• On Giving Starting with Ourselves:

  "People have to understand, we all have lots of talent. ... These are what I call life talents: the ability to lead, to manage, to smile, to use humor, to listen.”
  (John Studzinski, 23:20)

• On the Impact of Focusing on One Person:

  "If you can have an impact on one person's life, that might be your goal. … Human beings are not necessarily subject to metrics.”
  (John Studzinski, 16:17)

• Funny Moment:
  The hosts riff on whether they’d get in a ring with Mike Tyson for $100 million, drawing parallels to making financial sacrifices for charity.

  “For $100 million, would you get in a ring with Mike Tyson? … No, because you would have a TBI in about 30 seconds.” (Doug, 41:01)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |--------------------------------------------------|-------------------| | John Studzinski redefines “philanthropy” | 07:29–08:25 | | Parable of the Talents and “unearthed” ability | 09:03–10:49 | | Charity (transactional) vs philanthropy (partner)| 14:32–16:11 | | Impact “one person at a time” (Mother Teresa) | 16:11–17:06 | | Giving is more than money—portfolio of talents | 17:58–21:30 | | Finding/using your talents & mentorship | 23:20–29:11 | | Building a generous society, common good | 32:50–34:09 | | Vanguard and portfolio glide-path discussion | 42:32–51:43 | | Emotional vs logical investment choices | 51:43–53:13 | | Role of annuities for retirement confidence | 57:01–59:09 | | Fire drills and real-world risk assessment | 60:27–61:44 |

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Tone & Takeaways

The episode captures Stacking Benjamins’ signature warmth, humor, and approachability—even as it dives into the deeper, more philosophical side of personal finance. John Studzinski’s thoughtful approach to giving energizes the discussion, reminding listeners that generosity is as much about our time and talents as it is about money.

In the retirement segment, the hosts emphasize practical wisdom over theoretical “perfection," encouraging self-awareness and planning tailored to personal risk tolerance and life stage.

Actionable Wisdom for Listeners:

• Don’t wait to be rich to give back; cultivate and share your “life talents” now.
• Grow your generosity muscle—mentorship and focused, one-at-a-time change are powerful.
• When investing for retirement, prioritize your own behavioral comfort zone, and practice mental “fire drills” for market swings.
• Consider structures like annuities if a steady paycheck feeling will help you stay the course.

Closing Note:
Find John Studzinski’s book A Talent for Giving: Creating a More Generous Society That Benefits Everyone for more on these themes. And remember: whether it’s money, time, or a smile, “we all have something to give.”

Transcript

[Prime Video Sports Announcer]

Thursday Night Football is on and it's only on Prime Video. This week, the NFC west grabs the spotlight as the Los Angeles Rams visit the Seattle Seahawks. Coverage begins at 7pm Eastern with football's best party TNF. Tonight presented by Verizon. It's Rams Seahawks Thursday at 7pm Eastern. And don't miss the Broncos and the Chiefs on Christmas night. Only on Prime Video. Not a Prime member? Not a problem. Simply sign up for a 30 day free trial. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com Amazon prime for details.

[Kevin Harlan]

Kevin Harlan here this Friday, the NBA on prime crew is back with another thrilling NBA doubleheader. It tips off with Tyrese Maxey and the Sixers taking on Jalen Brunson and the Knicks at the Garden. Then SGA and the champion Thunder visit Anthony Edwards and the Timberwolves. If you're not a Prime member, just sign up for a free 30 day trial. The Sixers and Knicks. The Thunder and Timberwolves coverage starts Friday at 6:30pm Eastern. Only on Prime. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com Amazon prime for details.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

You're a big boy.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

What's your name?

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

And what can I get you for Christmas?

[Jesse Kramer]

Don't tell him what you want.

[OG]

He's a liar. Let the kid talk.

[John Studzinski]

You disgust me.

[OG]

How can you live with yourself?

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Just cool it, Zippy.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

You sit on a throne of lies.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Live from Joe's mom's basement, it's the Stacking Benjamin Show. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and this time of year, lots of people are thinking about charitable giving. But giving might not be best accomplished the way you think. Today, we welcome a guy who's not only the managing director and vice chairman at Asset Manager Pimco, he's also the mind behind the Genesis Foundation. It's John Studzinski in our headline segment. While an all stock portfolio has performed best over long periods of time, what's best when you draw down money? New comments from Vanguard might help you on your way. And we'll share. And while we're sharing, you know what? I'll also chip in and share some magical, riveting trivia. And now, two guys who are all about the magic of more money and spending less time worrying about it. It's Joe. Oh and oh JJ Juju G.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

Hey there stackers.

[OG]

Happy Wednesday and welcome back to favorite place to chat about money topics.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

The Stacking Benjamin Show. I'm Josal Sehigh and across the card.

[OG]

Table from me, it's the one and only Mr. OG with a flourish, I was trying to be Doug but I didn't do that. Well, Doug does it so much better than I do.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

If you didn't add syllables, flattery will get you everywhere.

[OG]

Hopefully.

[John Studzinski]

Doug, no.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Who are you flattering?

[OG]

Too soon.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Oh, because you said I do it so much better.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

You.

[OG]

Yes.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Yeah, I'm sorry.

[Jesse Kramer]

I just, I just like how Joe to me, anyway, looking across the card table, Joe looks like one of those Japanese films that they've dubbed English on top of. So his mouth moves and then you hear the words. That's it's really, really kind of cool.

[OG]

It's weird how that happens across the card table.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

When we're in the same room. You might have vestibular nerve issue going on or something. OG.

[OG]

We'Ll be back after we take OG to the ER to get checked out. We do have the guy that people call studs coming down to the basement. He is the managing director of Pimco, a big asset management firm.

[Jesse Kramer]

Pimco.

[OG]

But Pimco isn't the only asset management firm. Reference today during our headline, we're going to talk about some words out of Vanguard as well. So Pimco today, Vanguard today, rolling out a bunch of different money firms. But before all that, we do have a couple sponsors to make sure we can keep on keeping on. And you don't have to pay anything for all of this goodness. So grab your piece of paper, grab your favorite beverage, find a nice place to sit back and relax. John Stacynski talking about a talent for giving. What does giving have to do with talent? We're going to dive into that with John here in just a moment.

[Prime Video Sports Announcer]

Thursday Night Football is on and it's only on Prime Video. This week, the NFC west grabs the spotlight as the Los Angeles Rams visit the Seattle Seahawks, division rivals in a PrimeTime showdown. Expect two outstanding defenses, big plays and a battle that could shake up the standings. Coverage begins at 7pm Eastern with Football's Best Party TNF Tonight, presented by Verizon. It's the Rams and the Seahawks Thursday at 7pm Eastern. And don't miss the Broncos and the Chiefs on Christmas night. Only on Prime Video. Not a Prime member. Not a problem. Simply sign up for a 30 day free trial. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com Amazon prime for details.

[Kevin Harlan]

Kevin Harlan here. This Friday, the NBA on prime crew has another thrilling NBA doubleheader. It tips off with an Eastern Conference showdown as Tyrese Maxey and the Philadelphia 76ers head to Madison Square Garden to take on Jalen Brunson and the New York Knicks. Then it's Western Conference action SGA and the defending champion Oklahoma City Thunder. Visit Anthony Edwards and the Minnesota Timberwolves. It all comes your way this Friday on Prime. And if you're not a Prime member, that's not a problem. Sign up for a 30 day free trial to get started today. The Sixers and Knicks the Thunder and Timberwolves coverage starts Friday at 6:30 Eastern only on Prime. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com amazonprime for details.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

Well, as you know, Stackers, I love talking to people who expand our thinking on a topic beyond the usual ways that we speak about them often. These are entrepreneurs. Julie Wainwright, past CEO of Infamous Pets.com expanded our idea back in September, if you remember, on the idea of Failure, Richard Fame from Royal Caribbean. Then in October expanded our thoughts on leading a team with diverse ideas and attitudes and really sometimes being violently opposed to each other in direct conflict with each other and using that to make the team actually better and not worse. Then Lou Frank from Coach in November redefined our ideas of being an imposter and using that to your benefit. And if I do my job correctly, we're going to do the same today with the idea of charitable giving because John Studzinski is here with us in the basement.

[OG]

How are you?

[Joe Saul Seahive]

John?

[John Studzinski]

Well, I couldn't be better. Very good to see you.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

I'm super happy that you are here and I love the way that you are redefining, really, what's this about? First of all, you don't like the word philanthropy, I gather, very much when we're talking about giving.

[John Studzinski]

No, I think it's obviously an important word. It has great history and everyone knows what it means. But if you're trying to motivate a young person or a person who's not a philanthropist, they immediately say, that's not me. It's associated with large sums of money. It's associated with establishment, it's associated with bricks and mortar, and it's associated with perhaps a segment of society that change agents, disruptors or people who are interested in transformation or sustainable impact probably will avoid like the plague. So I prefer not to use the word philanthropy. I think we are all capable of, on a very simple human level, to give and we are all givers. So I like to look at it as the context of giving.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

You can see already, Stackers, that this.

[OG]

Is going to be a much different.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

Discussion than most people are having about giving. So I want to blow up three different areas and first of all, we'll talk about why you use these specific terms. John and then I think we'll Dive briefly into each one of these terms to give our stackers an idea of what they mean first. You used the word talent in giving in this project in the same sentence. And I know when I first read this, everybody at home is thinking what I was thinking, which is talent in giving. What does the word talent mean? Because you've chosen that word very carefully.

[John Studzinski]

Well, actually when I chose it, I had a very clear biblical reference to the parable of the Talents. But then when the book was published, I had to put up this notion that this was some sort of biographical commentary on me, that I have a talent for giving. Almost like I'm applauding myself in a very self righteous way, that I'm a giver. And don't you think that's great and let's all have a round of applause for studs. No, I go back to the parable of the Talents in the Bible. If you remember, the laborers are given one is given five talents. And you have to remember in the Hebrew Bible or the New Testament, the talent is the equivalent of currency. It's equivalent of a piece of gold. It has a certain amount of value. So the gentleman who was given five made five. The gentleman who was given three made three and they were applauded. But interestingly, the gentleman who's given one, rather than put it in the bank or give it to someone to get a market rate of return, he buried it. And he was incredibly chastised by his boss. And I think we all are given talent by God that we bury. And they're perhaps some of our most interesting talents, skills and potentially currency that you can use for the common good. But the point is you want to unearth all of your talent. And some of the most interesting talent you have certainly as it relates to giving, is probably at this point buried well.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

And I never thought about it that way. The fact that maybe we all remember being a child and maybe we had a predilection to be good at some sport or we were good in some class in school. John. We were good at something, but we weren't. We showed a little bit of promise, but we still had to develop it. We had to surround ourselves with people that would help us get there. It became something that we worked on and that we actually developed. So I think some people think that because I'm not quote, charitable today, I love the idea that this is a muscle that I can develop and get better at.

[John Studzinski]

It's a very interesting point where we are in history when I run a lot of focus groups with Very young people, as young as 12, 13, all the way up to the age of 30. And when you ask them what are you passionate about, what do you believe in, what would you like to do to nurture and what would you like to give to? You get a very ambivalent, slightly measured, blank stare. If you ask people, what are you angry about, what are you frustrated about, what are you concerned about, what are you annoyed about? You tend to get a really good answer. Almost self righteous anger in a way that's channeled. And then I go through a whole discussion about saying, okay, if you're angry about people are taking the climate not seriously, what are you doing about it and encouraging them. You know, a good entrepreneur is someone who sees a gap or sees obstacles and then finds a way to overcome them and create a solution and in some cases makes a profit for themselves or in this case a profit for society.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

It's so funny how nobody talks about the idea of talent and positive giving. We're all begging on our keyboard, being angry at strangers and about things that.

[OG]

Aren'T directly under our control.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

And I want to get back, but.

[John Studzinski]

Can I just ask. We also abdicate responsibility because we think it's somebody else is going to solve problems. It's going to be the government, it's going to be state and local government, it's going to be Washington, it's going to be a corporation, it's going to be my tech provider, it's going to be the adults, it's going to be people who are 10 years, 20 years, 30 years older than I am. That's not how movements are started. Movements are started with an entrepreneurial nurture. And when you're thinking about what's good about the common society, what's interesting is this age group, they're good at a lot of things. They're particularly good at convening. The negative is that they've been abused by social media. And we see that in the Jonathan Haidt book the Anxious Generation. Having said that, they're very good at convening and they are incredibly humanitarian.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

So then I think being a humanitarian is this outward thing. I'm thinking about, as you mentioned earlier, climate change or I'm thinking about people in need, I'm thinking about my neighbor. And yet the second idea that you present after talent and how wrapped up really using your talent is. Second is the idea that giving seems outward and selfless. And yet you say that to be giving we have to start off with kind of what I think a lot of people would think of as egotistical and full of yourself. And that is you need to look inward to begin becoming a better, charitably inclined giver. Yeah.

[John Studzinski]

So we can unpack this on a lot of levels. I think the most interesting thing is, is there such a thing as pure altruism? And by altruism I mean if you think you're going to do good, does that mean you get nothing in return? I would say if the motivation is altruism, you might still get something in return in terms of a sense of goodwill from the beneficiary or something else. I think we have to distinguish that from charity versus philanthropy. You know, charity is transactional. People support benefits. People donate food to food banks. Charity is a benefit that has a band aid approach. People often give donations at the end of the year. Is that because they're giving donations or is that because they get tax benefits from it and therefore they check two boxes. One, they think they're giving well and that they are, but they're also getting a tax benefit. So it's in some respects a transaction. On the other hand, philanthropy is a partnership. It's a long term relationship where you're not just giving someone a fish, but you're teaching them to fish and you're walking with them, you know, along the bank of the river while they learn to fish. And through that, different experiences. And I think there are a lot of people listening to this podcast that have seen the fruit of philanthropy in how it changes lives, how it changes families, how it changes communities. But it is still one person at a time.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

You had someone very important tell that to your face, John.

[John Studzinski]

Well, it was a very serious chastisement. Mother Teresa always said, don't be too ambitious, don't be too pretentious, don't be all over the place. Focus on changing the world one person at a time. I think this is an inherent and this comes from my faith, but I think everyone listening to this thing, if you can have an impact on one person's life, you know, that might be your goal. One person, this notion of metrics that you have to do, not just 1, but 10, not just 10, but 100, not just a hundred, but a thousand. Human beings are not necessarily subject to metrics. They can't be railroaded. That's why this great concern we have about AI But I think one person at a time, let's just start there.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

Well, and a. I can handle that. That's within my sphere of control, which is what I like about what we just did there, John. Initially we Said philanthropy is too big, it's too cold. It's these, I think you said brick and mortar. It's these huge amounts of money. And yet now you just coupled philanthropy with a much more micro scale and then it becomes very powerful. But I think in all of our heads, we have to redefine that. So after we look inward at ourselves and we think about changing one person, and really in a lot of ways, looking at us first to see where our talents are. And I'm going to get back to all these stackers. Third is people assume that it takes money. You write, and yet you, you know, our stackers think about their portfolio of investments. John, and you say we have this portfolio of talents and there's many ways to be a giver that maybe include no money.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Yeah.

[John Studzinski]

I created my first project when I was six years old. And I did it because I identified early on to my mother that there seemed to be a lot of people in the town. I grew up where not well off and could use a hot meal. And I also knew, on the other hand, that was the use of a project. And the source was there were a lot of families who were particularly generous in terms of hospitable and actually knew how to prepare food. So I created a network of people who were good cooks and who prepared warm meals. And this was a modest sum of money, but it was a question of organization and networking and time. And I think this is the notion of ties or technology today, because people have the benefit of technology. I didn't have the benefit of technology in 1962, so I do think it is actually wrong. And you're doing yourself a disservice by giving money. It's relatively cold and transactional. And once the money leaves your hand, you might feel good for a period of time. You might feel like you're part of a community. You might feel like you're part of a member organization. But actually, if you give your time and volunteer, or if you give your power of convening with ties, if you are particularly young and astute at technology, and there's also this need to be tenacious, I believe that one can accomplish a lot in solving problems by tenacity. The other thing I would say is I don't want anyone listening to this to think I'm naive about money. Money's important, but only important when you don't have it. Good projects, good ideas, clever entrepreneurs tend to attract project money very quickly. I had an idea when I was in my adolescence about the need for this was in 1969, the need for communicable disease information in the United States. And we needed to have information about what was then communicable diseases, venereal diseases, now what we refer to as things like gonorrhea and syphilis. This is before the AIDS pandemic. We came up with the idea and we presented it to two or three people. And the money came in a short period of time from one organization, the jcs, who decided this is a great project to scale across. In 48 states, money will come. But the seed corn in all this is finding a sense of what you can do to nurture the common good. People are inherently good. People want to do something, they want to be part of a winning team, and they want to do more. They're frustrated with the way things are. We always are going to be frustrated. I mean, I was always chastised when I was working with the poor when I was six years old. And a very thoughtful religious sister said to me, we can feed the poor all day, but remember, the poor will always be with us. And there is a school of thought that says that. But I would counter that by saying, the poor may be with us, but we can do a lot more to enhance their dignity and to give them a lot more self confidence and give them a lot more skills or share our talents to get to help them embrace more control in their lives.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

I want to go back to that first work of philanthropy that you did. It strikes me that if you're trying to put together a network of people to help feed the poor, John, and you're that young, you know, you said that people give agency to everybody else. It's not my problem. It's not my problem. Yet at a very young age you're doing this. We all see ourselves as imposters, right? But at that age, you clearly are young enough where adults will say, well, maybe not take you seriously. How did you get the adults to take you seriously, to even put this network together?

[John Studzinski]

Well, I was raised in a very devout Christian family, and it's part of the Christian ethos that to whom much has been given, much is expected. And even if you're growing up in a very strongly working class family, which it was blue collar, it was a sense that you were given enough. That wonderful quote at the beginning of the book from Seneca, which I've used many times in my life, nothing is worth having unless you share it with others. And we've given a lot of things from God. We should thank God, but we also should be Open minded about sharing.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

It's funny, you beat me to the punch there because I found that striking right at the beginning of the book. And of course a lot of our stackers are big fans of reading Seneca. And by the way, if you haven't read Seneca yet, I think that's a good holiday gift to yourself to get there. Let's go into this idea then of talent, if you don't mind, John, because there's a lot maybe of our younger stackers that are listening, going, really not sure what my talent is. I'm not sure where it lies. Are there some ways that we can dive into this and maybe get some clues where our talents truly might be so we can get working in a smarter way?

[John Studzinski]

Well, I think part of it starts with the power of two and the mentor mentee relationship. And I know that sounds very grand or very pretentious. Having a mentor that's obviously someone else has philanthropy, someone else has a mentor. It's actually not at all two people talking about each other who know each other. You take a lot of your inherent talents for granted. And I think today also social media has done a big disservice to a young generation of people because social media has created almost a projection of how people should be living their lives. What skills are important, what talents are important. And I think certainly Generation Z is increasingly shedding social media and relying more back to a humanitarian network. And I think that's positive because I think actually when you're talking about your talents, this generation is particularly strong on convening and they understand convening well, partly because they've been trained to convene through social media, but they also are very good at convening. And I think you have to realize that talent is not. We're not talking about Elon Musk and going to the moon here. We're not talking about Albert Einstein or Leonardo da Vinci. We're talking about talent that you might be particularly good at networking, you might be particularly good at resourcing ties, you might be particularly good at listening in a homeless shelter. And from listening you develop a sense of trust. Talent is nuanced. It's not black and white. It's probably more gray than black or white. And I think this is the thing people have to understand. We all have lots of talent and I think we all think, oh, this person's. Remember when you went to school and someone said is he quantitative or qualitative? Is he good at English or math? Is he good at science or is he good at art? We have these silos. This isn't what we're talking about. These are what I call life talents. Life talents that relate to the ability to lead, the ability to manage, the ability to smile, the ability to have a sense of humor, the ability to use humor to generate consensus, the ability to use humor to understand discrepancies or differences in populations. There's a lot of things that people have and part of it is you just come from going back to my power of 2.2 or 3 people talking to each other about their talent. I actually think if you're angry enough about a problem, some of your talent immediately starts to. And if you want to do something about it, some of your talents will become a lot more apparent. It's like if you had to identify one thing you could contribute to something that it's not money when it is. It might start with time. It might start with your ability to be very clever with technology. It might start with your views that you're very clever at money in terms of managing money or managing resources. Some people are good with elderly people, some people are good with children. It's amazing and I think there's a lot to be said in this exercise for your stackers that this enhances your self esteem over time it enhances your self confidence because you start to develop a view of what you're really good at. Society lately is trying to beat us into a pulp a bit about thinking, well, what are we good at? And the truth is we are very good at things. Just because technology has provided with it over overriding us in some respects, that doesn't necessarily mean that we have lost any of those inherent talents.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

And it strikes me, John, as you're speaking, that if I am talented at something and to your point, I go on social media and I see 25 people that are better at than me. I'm not trying to impact those people. Going back to your conversation with Mother Teresa, I'm trying to impact one person or one organization in my backyard. And if I'm better at it than they are, who cares what those 25 people on social media are good at? Because they're not trying to levy that talent on, on the same people. I'm thinking about something that you wrote in this book about going to a couple people who are very talented and asking them, you know, maybe for some mentorship. You must have mentored between your time at hsbc, at Morgan Stanley, at heck, at all the places we've been at Blackstone. I'm sure you've had people ask you for mentorship. We spoke earlier, maybe about a year ago with Seth Godin, the marketing guru, about mentorship. And he said the problem with mentorship in it, John, is there's nothing in it for the mentor. There is nothing in it. You've been asked people that have wanted maybe you to mentor them at things, what's the right way to ask them for help, to look at their talent.

[John Studzinski]

I don't agree with that premise at all. I mentor a lot of people, I teach a lot of classes. It's very funny if a mentor is at all prescient or self aware. Every time you mentor someone, you learn a lot about yourself, you learn more about yourself and it's holding up a mirror to yourself. So I'm not so sure. And sometimes by in mentoring people, it helps you unpack some of your own thought processes one way or the other. So I would not dismiss that. Mentoring is a one way channel, one way process, one way. I think it is reciprocal and it works both ways.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

Is there a way to ask you though, that you've preferred over your career?

[John Studzinski]

I love to mentor because I like to see the fruit on the fruit tree and how people respond to it. Because I also have a rule of thumb which is if I mentor you, you in taking on this and as you get more engaged, have to mentor somebody else. So it has to follow the domino principle rigorously. I believe it helps you rethink some of your own decisions in your own life. And that wonderful line, which I agree with, in many great business decisions, none of us learn very much from success because with success you don't know how much further you could have gone, what else you could have done, how much money you could have, profit you could have earned, or how much market share you could have gained. That's all success. You tend to learn a lot through disappointments, failures, and sometimes in talking to my mentees, you engage much more reality about what's going on in your own life. So I don't agree with your Seth Grogan comment. I don't agree with that at all. I think that's probably someone that needs to take a course in listening. No, no, no. Because listening is a really. There's something called tactical empathy about learning to listen and unpack what they're saying and understanding it from a segmented series of empathetic steps so that you can really embrace the nuances of what the person is saying about themselves.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

But has there been a particularly good way you've liked when somebody's asked you, could you mentor me on this. Is there a approach? What I'm looking for is the tactical approach of somebody. Let's say it's me coming to you, asking you to help me with something. Is there a way that is a better way to approach people, to maybe get help working on my talent so I can take that and go help other people?

[John Studzinski]

Well, it's very interesting if you look at the history of mentors. A lot of mentors actually choose their mentees because they're people they see as having promise. And they often approach them and say, can I. If you need further help, if you need advice or guidance, I'm happy to support you.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

That's funny. It's been like that in my career, in my life. I've actually chosen, as you're saying that I'm like, I've kind of chosen my.

[John Studzinski]

Mentees, and that's fine. I've chosen a lot of my mentees. I have been approached by people at conferences and who I haven't known very well. Then I go through a discernment exercise about trying to decide whether I am the right person and whether what they're hoping to gain. You have to know someone pretty well to ask them to be your mentor. And you have to know yourself pretty well to know what you actually need and what you're looking for. Because some people think they're going to get some secret sauce that's going to actually solve all their challenges in their career or whatever. And that may or may not be the case.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

The subtitle of your book, I talked about how auspicious the word talent is. And I hope our stackers see how important that word is. But the subtitle is creating a more generous society that benefits everyone. We spent a lot of our time here, John, talking about helping one person and really focusing on if I could help that one person or maybe that one organization in Texarkana, Texas, where I live.

[OG]

Right.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

How do we create a better society if I'm thinking about just one person?

[John Studzinski]

Well, we're all in this together. We are all in this together. And this is why I reference the common good. And it goes back to the scriptures. It goes back to the Christian scriptures, which you might recall, when asked how to pray, Jesus responds, our Father who art in heaven. And he uses the term our Father. It's not my Father, it's not your Father, it's our Father. So we are a community. We have a set of goals and objectives, and we have. If the community has served well, that's the common good. So whether we like it or not, the notion of common good is probably one of the fundamental parts of, of western and eastern civilization, the common good. We've got lots of people today who try to disrupt, distract or destroy the notion of common good, but the truth is the common good and it's not a political thing. We're not talking about communism here. We're talking about common good in terms of a framework which benefits everyone.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

I need to point out something, John, that you and I talked about just before we hit record here, which was that our mentor and Stacky Benjamin's Mr.

[OG]

Ben Franklin appears in your book and.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

You appear in a new BBC series on Ben Franklin.

[John Studzinski]

Yeah, Ben Franklin is one of my favorite characters because he's done it all. He checks all the boxes of, to use that negative term, he's a great disruptor, but he's a great leader and you know, he believes he has a wonderful quote. It is prodigious, the quality of good that may be done by one man if he makes a business of it. So this is during the period of the Enlightenment. This is 1776 and someone is talking about the quality of good that may be done if someone makes a business of it that is entrepreneurial. And that is what this book is.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

About, being in the business of doing good. The book is called A Talent for Giving. Creating a more generous society that benefits everyone. John, thank you so much for mentoring our stackers today and especially, you know, we need this every month. But I think now in the age that we're all angry on our keyboards, focusing back on our neighbor I think is a very important lesson. Thank you so much.

[John Studzinski]

Thank you very much. Good chatting.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Hey there, stackers. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor Doug. And today marks a retirement that changed the sports world. Over his career, one boxer held the spotlight more than any other. And on today's date, back in 1981, he fought his last fight with in what was billed Drama in Bahama. The fight was marred by problems like a last minute run to find of all things, some boxing gloves for the contestants. And at the end, this fighter called it a career. At 39 years old, who was this prestigious boxer who was a champion well past what most people think of as a boxer's prime years. I'll be back right after I remind Joe's mom that she's nowhere near master prime. I mean, unless she was a banana, then she'd be in a loaf of bread by now. I'm kidding, Ma.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

This message is sponsored by Navy Federal Credit Union as the holiday season rolls around, we know that you strive to do everything you can to bring cheer.

[OG]

And joy to your loved ones.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

And as a credit union dedicated to serving all veterans, active duty and their families, we understand that every little bit counts. That's why for a limited time, you could earn a $250 cash bonus when you spend $2,500 with Navy Federal's Cash Rewards and Cash Rewards plus cards in the first 90 days. Of course, Stackers, this is part of a big financial plan, right? Don't get yourself into debt. Make sure that you are spending and saving with a plan.

[OG]

But you know what?

[Joe Saul Seahive]

The giving doesn't stop there. You could also earn up to 2% unlimited cash back with these cards. So saving up for whatever the season brings just got a little easier.

[OG]

Give joy, get joy.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

Join now@navy federal.org Navy Federal Credit Union.

[OG]

Our members are the mission.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

Navy Federal is insured by NCUA. Visit navy federal.org cash rewards for details. Cash back terms and conditions apply. Offer ends January 1, 2026 hey folks, let me tell you that drinking and driving is a decision that will change your whole world. Things will never be the same once.

[OG]

You get a DUI because legal fees.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

And time in court are just the beginning. Getting into a crash is another way your world could be irreversibly changed. After drinking and driving, your vehicle may not be the only thing that gets damaged in that crash. You could face a life altering injury or even death, but you're not the only one who could face those consequences. Your decision to drink and drive could permanently change someone else's world, whether you injure them or leave their loved ones grieving. The next time you're out drinking, call a ride, share a taxi, a sober friend or a designated sober driver. Always plan for a safe ride home.

[OG]

The only decision that will change your.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

World for the better is the decision to call for a sober ride. It's never worth it to drive drunk. Don't risk it. Drive sober or get pulled over. Paid for by NHTSA.

[OG]

Retirement planning isn't about guesswork anymore. It's about having the right data, control and confidence. Bolden is the modern retirement planning tool.

[Kevin Harlan]

Built for people who want to plan.

[OG]

Their future their way. Run your own scenarios, see Advisor Quality insights and make decisions with confidence. Try it free [e-mail] Plan.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Hey there stackers. I'm Boxing Day lover and man who's still not certain what that holiday is even about. Joe's mom's neighbor's Doug One boxer changed the course of history in boxing. And the sport really hasn't been the same since he left in 1981. With the exception of only a few big names and scattered events, boxing has largely been overtaken by MMA as a sport that many stackers watch. So who was the big name boxer who retired today? Back in 1981, if you said the guy who floated like a butterfly and stung like a bee, it was, of course, Muhammad Ali. Hey, that rhymes. And now two guys who may not box, but they naked oil wrestle with your money problems every Monday, Wednesday, Friday, back to Joe and OG.

[Jesse Kramer]

So slippery.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Not awkward for us and awkward.

[OG]

Awkward for you.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Think about me. I'm the one who's got to watch that.

[Jesse Kramer]

Hey, who. Who do you think when asked in a room with Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson, they asked Muhammad Ali in their primes, if they fought each other, who would win? What did Muhammad Ali say?

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

He said Tyson. It was an Arsenio Hall. It was on Arsenio hall that that happened. And of course, Tyson said Ali and they did the whole. But I really kind of think it might have been Tyson.

[OG]

Man, that guy could hit so hard. Hit so hard. But Ali was way more versatile. I mean, I wonder if he could just drag that fight out.

[Jesse Kramer]

All you think about with. With Mike Tyson is the scene from hangover where he's like. And he punches him in the face.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Stupid questions like, you know, for $100 million, would you get in a ring with Mike Tyson in his prime? No, because you would have a TBI in about 30 seconds.

[Jesse Kramer]

Yeah, but you just have to run around, right? Do you think you could run around for 30 seconds and just hold on to your head?

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Look at me. Of course I can't.

[OG]

Of course I can.

[Jesse Kramer]

You and your prime, Doug. Him and his prime, or you and your prime? Him and him now?

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

No, he would still.

[Jesse Kramer]

You'd still die.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Yeah.

[Jesse Kramer]

What if you got to wear one of those, like, head shield things with, like, a mouth guard?

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

No, because your brain still sloshes around inside your body.

[Jesse Kramer]

You're still getting a concussion. Yeah, but it's one concussion for $100 million.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

How do you know I haven't already had four?

[OG]

About your family, Doug. Don't think about your self selfish. We just had. We just had the guy on.

[Jesse Kramer]

How much could you donate? You just have to get hit in the face by Mike Tyson to be able to charitable build a children's hospital.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Yeah, in a few years. That's actually a reasonable consideration. In a few years, when I'm, like, done skiing and done doing all the outdoor stuff I want to do, I might take that beating.

[Jesse Kramer]

You're just going to be like, who wants to punch me in the face for $100 million?

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Right? Let's auction that off for Stacker charity. Punch Doug in the face.

[OG]

What a fatalistic episode. I've done everything I want to do. Just punch me in the face. Now give me. Do it for a dollar.

[Jesse Kramer]

I don't even need 100 million.

[OG]

Who needs the money? Let's do a headline, guys.

[Jesse Kramer]

Hello, darlings. And now it's time for your favorite part of the show, our Stacking Benjamin's headlines.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

Today's headline is sponsored by nhtsa. Drinking and driving will change your whole world. Whether you get pulled over or get into a crash, things will never be the same. Getting a sober ride will change your world for the better. Drive sober or get pulled over. Paid for by NHTSA.

[OG]

Okay, headline today comes to us from financialplanning.com the place where financial planners chat. And we love. If you're new to stacking, Benjamin's talking about these, these types of pieces because often what financial advisors talk about is completely different than what we'll see in other media. And it was interesting for me when I went from, I don't know, from one side to the other to see how different these conversations often were and how they should probably be a little, a little more of the same. There was Investments and Wealth Institute meeting recently and Zachary Rayfield, who's the head of goals based investing research at Vanguard's investment strategy group, he talked about this idea of a glide path OG where you are starting off pre retirement and then moving your money into a place where it's much easier to access and exactly how you get there. This piece is written by Elijah Nicholson Messmer. And Elijah writes, for many investors, portfolio design seems straightforward. Simply choose the options with the highest potential returns.

[Jesse Kramer]

But for advisors, sorry, I said, yeah, super easy. Just pick the. Pick the ones with the highest returns.

[OG]

Yeah, duh. I mean, what else are you gonna do, Shaw?

[Jesse Kramer]

As if.

[OG]

But it is interesting that they actually tie that and so does Zachary Rayfield at Vanguard to equities are the answer. So he's singing off the OG song sheet. The people at Vanguard singing off the same song sheet.

[Jesse Kramer]

I sent him the script, so I'm glad.

[OG]

Yeah, yeah, Vanguard, apparently you're gonna have to chat with them because they have to say TM when they talk about all equities portfolio and recognize your trademark on that. But what he spent a lot of time talking about was while that is the right answer, if you just look at it scientifically, it can be the wrong answer for many investors because behaviorally, if you're serving, if you're an advisor serving a wide range of risk tolerances, your mindset, which is everything when you're all equities can quickly fall apart. And if you can't stomach sharp market swings, the quote best strategy on paper isn't always the right one in practice. And I know that people have heard you talk about all equities is the key, but I think he's still singing off the OG song sheet here, isn't he?

[Jesse Kramer]

Yeah. I mean, ultimately, when it comes to investment portfolio design, you're trying to figure out a solution that gets you to your goals without ever having you blow it up. And people make radical money decisions around their investments when expectations don't meet or match rather, reality. And what I mean by that is if you look at your account and you say, oh my gosh, I'm down 20%, I expected to be down 10, then in all likelihood you're going to be searching for the thing to do to make it closer to 10. You know, if you expected 10 and you're down 20, something isn't lined up correctly. And I think a lot of people understand that, that that's when you make a mistake of, you know, the market's down 20 and then you sell or you change something. And then people say, I'd never do that, but they do. But it also happens on the other side of the coin too, where you say, wait a second, the S and P is up like 17% this year. I'm up 12. Like, what the heck is going on? I need to go make a change so that I get some of that 17. And they make a change the other way too, and start doing other things that are outside of their parameters as well. That happens equally as much on both sides.

[OG]

They increase the risk because of fomo?

[Jesse Kramer]

Well, I mean, ipso facto they increase the risk, but they do it through exotic things like going, you know, I need to have private credit in my portfolio because I read about it on Instagram or something. It's like the reason you're getting 12 is because you have 60% of your money in stocks, not 100. It's not because the allocations are. Well, it's not because the individual buckets are wrong. It's because the overall big picture allocation is incorrect. So if you can avoid the expectations not matching reality component of your investments, then you're more likely to not make a radical change. When things don't go your way, one way or the other. And I think that far more people get freaked out about the downside than the upside. But it happens both ways. And so when I look at it from a planning standpoint, number one, I want to solve for what does the money have to do? A lot of times when you talk to people, they're surprised by the fact that the money that they've saved already provides a pretty sizable leg up on their overall planning. So if we're meeting with somebody, they're 45 years old, they have $700,000 in their 401k. Every 45 year old is like, ah, I should have done this earlier. You know, I feel, you know, I'm. But then you do the math and you just go, well, you know, it's gonna double when you're 54 and it's gonna double when you're 63. I mean, that's 3 million. That's pretty good. You're good. You got 3 million bucks, plus a little Social Security, plus you got a little brokerage account. Like, that's awesome. How do we not screw up to 3 million? You know? And so I think a lot of times we're surprised by the fact that we don't actually have to be as aggressive as we think we have to be to reach the goals that we want. What my challenge to people is, let's say that you're that person that can get to your financial goals with a 5050 stock allocation. And just for argument's sake, let's say that that's a 5% return. So you do your financial plan and you go, no, I'm good. I can, I'm good at 5%. I don't have to do anything else. Like, I don't have to get 6, 7, 8, 9, 10% return. I'm good with 5. My challenge to those people is, why wouldn't you want to get 10 so that you can do other bigger things? Because the difference between 5 and 10 isn't double. It's exponentially different. If you run an investment analysis of if my portfolio grows at 5, it grows and then it peaks. And then I spend some money. When I'm a hundred, I kind of run out, or I'm close to running out, or the curve has gone the other direction. If you think of it that way and you go, no, I'm good. Why wouldn't you want to have it be the other way? Where it's like this never ending exponential increase and like John was talking about, just A bit ago. In terms of giving, think about all the giving opportunities that you have. If you have a portfolio that has $10 million at the end versus a million at the end. And I'm not saying you have to give that money away to charity. I'm saying, like, you give it to your kids or your, you know, your grandkids, or it just opens up new doors. It's just like you have other opportunities to do other things. Hell, you can consume it on yourself. You always wanted to get a Ferrari.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

Guess What?

[Jesse Kramer]

You got 10 million bucks. You can have one. There's nothing wrong with any of those outcomes. You know, if you're like, no, I'm good. I don't like the ups and downs, I'm definitely going to freak out. My expectations match how I'm feeling about money. And so when the market goes up 10, you. You get 5. When it goes down 10, you go down 5. Like, you feel good about that. You're in a good spot. But if you can say, if there's other things that I can do beyond that and I find energy in those things, why wouldn't you want to have a higher exposure to the things that are going to grow faster? Assuming that your plan's still good.

[OG]

Yeah.

[Jesse Kramer]

And. And open up other opportunities down the line, like you said.

[OG]

Rayfield says, quote, from a pure performance standpoint, you're going to do better with just equities. But it's about sort of balancing the behavioral aspect as you're talking about OG which exists in all investors. In fact, he and other researchers have a theory called the human capital theory. I don't know if you guys are familiar with this, but if what it basically says is the older you are, the more likely you are to mess up your portfolio. And the reason is, is that when you're young, you have this lifetime earning potential, which is really high. And in your brain, that's like a very conservative asset. They call it a bond here, but it could be like an annuity or a pension where you think about your lifetime earning potential and you're like, hey, I can risk my money in the stock market. Plus, you have a hell of a lot less money, and the time you're going to spend most of it is way in the future. So because you have this, quote, bond allocation, when it comes to your earning ability, when you're young, you're much less likely to mess with the portfolio. But the closer you get, the fewer earning years you have, the more that goes down and down. And if you are just in equities and you're going to spend it sooner. You're then going to do. We talked about on Monday, oh gee, you're going to start watching the news, you're going to start worrying about all kinds of stuff. You're going to begin to freak out more with this all equities portfolio. The chances that you will. So I think this is a big case of know yourself. I mean, you really, really, really have to know yourself. I think it's a little bit of a gut check time.

[Jesse Kramer]

My observation is, is that most people compare their portfolio results in dollars and then compare those dollars to other things that are the same dollar amount in their lives. And here's what I mean by that. So let's say that you have $100,000 in your account and it goes down by 20%, right? Goes down 20 grand. People don't say I lost 20%. They say I lost 20 grand. No, you know what I mean? Like in a cocktail party, if the market's taking a crap, you know, and you're playing the who's got a bigger one Game, well, I lost. Nobody says percentages. They say dollars. I, I'm down shoot, 20 grand. I'm down 40, I'm down 200. You know, it's that, that's the competition, right? Who can have the more miserable life like the other way on how much more money I made than you.

[OG]

I don't want to brag, but my life is more miserable than yours.

[Jesse Kramer]

Absolutely. I mean, it's mind boggling, isn't it, how people get in these, like these size contests.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

I'm more tired than you are.

[Jesse Kramer]

Yeah, my life sucks worse than yours because you just love to be a victim. But we use dollars to do that. And in our brains we compare those dollars to other things that we know are dollars in our lives. So for example, if you have a hundred ousand, you're down 20%, you're down 20 grand, you think, but I make a hundred grand, so I'm good. So that's kind of what Vanguard's saying here is we compare these things to where we are in our lives, which is always interesting to me because when I talk to people and I say, hey, you know, behavioral blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, go. Ah, it's totally fine, man. Last time the market went down 20%, I was good. I was like, yeah, but you've never had 5 million before. Like, I'll do the same thing. No, you won't.

[OG]

And, and at the same time, og the part that I like that they're saying Here I think the nuance, we haven't talked about that much on the show is also just this idea that you have fewer earning years as well and you're closer to spending it. You have more money and you're closer to spending it. So, you know, the impact of, well, I'm down 40,000, somebody who's down 40,000 and they're 35 versus somebody who's down 40,000, and they're 65. Just even if the number's the same, the 65 year old's probably going to freak out more because they think, well, I need that money just in that.

[Jesse Kramer]

Silo with the same dollar amounts. I would agree with that. I would also take it from the percentage standpoint and say, you know, well, 20% is 20%, but if you're down 20% on 4 million, that's 800,000. And then using that comparison to your income, because that's the most logical thing that most people compare it to, you think, oh my gosh, that's like eight years of work. I just lost eight years of work in one day. Or, you know, in one, one year, you know, whatever. The challenge is to understand that's part of the deal with investing. You can't have the plus 16s this year without having the minus 16s another year. Like that's just the trade. And it's not dollar, it's not a net zero game. Right. We know from history it's a net plus 10% game on average. And so you just have to look at this. When people ask me like, well, do you think there's going to be a recession? I don't know. When I look at the numbers, I go, well, but we're up 16%. Yeah, that's great. Well, in my mind I go, well, how do we get back to 10? Because it's still 10. Right. And so does that mean we have, we have to have a 4, we have a 16, then a 4. That gets us to 10. Do we have a 16, a 16 and then a minus 12, then a down?

[OG]

Yeah.

[Jesse Kramer]

And that gets us to 10. Like how do we. And when you stack 10 years in a row, I can understand why people are like, dude, it's 10 years a market going straight. We're averaging 15% a year for 10 years. Like this is. What do we do? I'm not predicting it, I'm just saying, like, math is somewhat math, right?

[John Studzinski]

Sure.

[Jesse Kramer]

So I think if you go into it knowing that that's part of the deal, you know, that you're going to see Those declines, what we use for clients are real numbers. I don't, we try really hard not.

[OG]

To say, you know, 5%, 10%, 15%.

[Jesse Kramer]

Yeah. In the future, you know, this could go down 7%. That doesn't mean anything to anyone. Like what's a 7? It's like, what does that mean? There's a real chance that next year you have a million dollars. There's a real chance that next year we could log in and see 800. You know, here's your statement, says 800K. Like what are you thinking? How do you feel when you see that?

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Yeah, time to go to a party and bitch about my losses.

[Jesse Kramer]

Yeah. That's all you do. Let's get after it. And you're good, right?

[OG]

Yeah.

[Jesse Kramer]

But if it's like, I'm really concerned and I'm going to be, you know, I'm going to probably postpone my goal. This also ties into the timing of your cash flows. When you say like, well, where should my money be for the different goals that are coming up in my life? I have a financial goal that's in a year from now. Should I have this money invested? Well, let me ask you, if you wake up tomorrow and you have 20,000 less dollars in that account, are you going to postpone the goal? Are you going to have to do something different with that goal that comes up in a year from now? Well, yeah, if I don't have that 20 grand, I can't send my kid to college. Well, then we can't take the 20 grand a risk. You know, like that's not a thing. Why would you want to do that? Well, but what if the market goes up? What if it goes down? It's not. You have the money for college now you're playing, you're playing with house money.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

You're good.

[Jesse Kramer]

You know, it's the same thing about retirement. When you get to retirement, people say, oh, you know, it'd be all stock. It's like, yeah, but you still want to have a year, 2, 3 of cash. That's how you can have all stock is because you have a couple years of emergency money. If the market does take a crap, you have a safety net there.

[OG]

There's another nuance to this that this researcher brings up, which is interesting because before I say the magic word that triggers people, I want people to remember this is a Vanguard based researcher.

[Jesse Kramer]

Them, not us.

[OG]

And, and, and Vanguard is all about low cost index. Keep it simple. Like on paper. That seems to be their marketing. Right. This, this researcher Rayfield then says, for very conservative people, OG who have that lower risk tolerance behaviorally, and they're trying to create a, quote, safer glide spending years. He said, this is where a very lowcost immediately annuitized annuity could work because it creates a pension stream that replicates then in your brain.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

It.

[OG]

It brings up that. That paycheck that you. You know that. So the freakout factor is less because these very conservative investors can stay in equities because they know that they have a consistent amount of money that no matter what happens to the stock market, they can rely on, almost like they did when they were 30 years old and they knew they weren't going to take the money out for a long time and they had a PayCheck coming from 30 to 65.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

You're.

[OG]

You're replicating this in your brain by implementing an annuity.

[Jesse Kramer]

I wonder what would be like if instead of, you know how every year you get a statement from the Social Security Administration that says, hey, here's how much money you made last year. Here's what your Social Security is going to look like if you get it at 62 or 66 or 67 for you guys, you know, tomorrow, easy. You know, like, that was a good old person's joke. And neither of you smiled or laughed.

[OG]

I said, easy.

[Jesse Kramer]

Oh, I didn't hear you.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

I'm doing something else. I was not listening.

[Jesse Kramer]

Doug had a swear word. It beeped out.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

Yeah.

[Jesse Kramer]

Something off. Something. Something off. Doug, was that what you said? But I wonder if what's.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

Cough.

[John Studzinski]

Yeah, how you coughing?

[Jesse Kramer]

Cough. I wonder if you converted that to dollars and then said it was basically a government annuity, if that would influence people's behavior to invest the rest of their money.

[OG]

Oh, good point.

[Jesse Kramer]

Aggressively.

[OG]

Yeah.

[Jesse Kramer]

Like if I said, you know, because you look at Social Security and you say, well, it's like 2,000amonth. It's like 2,000, like from 62 to 100. You know, like your life expectancy, 90. That's a big chunk of money.

[OG]

How much money's in that annuity?

[Jesse Kramer]

It's like a million dollars, man. Like, you have a million bucks that's paying you $20,000 a year for the next 30 years or, you know, whatever the math is. So it's like, I wonder if we converted that to. To a dollar sum that said it was an annuity, if that would influence people to be okay with investing the rest of their portfolio. Because if you look at that also as part of your retirement portfolio, for a lot of people, it's a lot of their Retirement portfolio. But even for those who have done a good job of saving outside of that, it's still a big dollar amount. If you took it in in its present value terms, it's fascinating. Being 100% equity is. You're still 60, 40.

[OG]

It's a fascinating discussion. And I love this idea of asking yourself, what would I do if my portfolio went down X amount of money? Put yourself in that position at a time. Almost like on Monday, you know, when Steve Kerber was talking about the family fire drill, you know, the family walking through that.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

Do.

[OG]

Do that with your money. Do the fire drill ahead of time.

[Jesse Kramer]

Calm, light bow drills.

[OG]

Yeah, yeah, Good stuff.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

You know what I was doing when you were making fun of us for being old?

[Jesse Kramer]

Turning up your hearing aid.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

I didn't. Okay, that was pretty well done. I applaud that. No, I was. I just decided, you know what I was. It got me thinking about the whole rule of 72. And like, just be patient. We're talking about, you know, how would you react if you lost X percent? But I was thinking of the inverse of that, of just be patient. It's going to, you know, you don't see, as we talked about on Monday, you oftentimes don't see it as it's sort of trickling in or growing slowly. But if you check years later, like, holy cow. I don't know why I didn't do this before. I just went out nine years in my Google calendar and put a reminder to myself for this date to see, is my portfolio worth about. And I put in specifics, is it doubled, you know, based on what it is today? So I put a couple of notes in there that'll be fun. Like, so everybody stick around for nine more years on the Neighbor Doug show, and I'll let you know.

[Jesse Kramer]

I think there's a joke in there, something about the rule of 72 being like, for you guys, like, the rule of tomorrow.

[OG]

Oh, my God. I think we need to wrap this. We'll link to this piece on our show notes page.

[Jesse Kramer]

I gotta double anymore because I got the rule of 72.

[OG]

Just a second. We're going to go to our community segment, the back Porch. But I know that a lot of you are thinking, you know what this sounds like, a little bit of planning, this retirement stuff that we've spent the last 20 minutes talking about. And you know what, if you need to do a better job in 2026 than you did in 2025, we have a ton of resources, but one of our main resources is og and his team, including Anna, who was on the show again, what just last week. Stack benjamin.com OG gets you to OG and Anna's calendars to book an appointment with them so that you're able to make 20, 26 much smoother year for you and not make the behavioral mistakes that we talked about in today's headlines. Deck benjamin.com OG Doug, let's go out on the back porch because on Monday you had a review all about some show called the Doug Show.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Yeah, the neighbor Doug show coming soon to a theater near you. But we have, we have another one today. You know, it's not quite as good as Mondays, but it's good. I mean, look, I don't want to take.

[OG]

It doesn't lead with the words, Doug.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

It doesn't lead with. Yeah, look, I mean, you guys got to get some sunshine once in a while too. The great review we got is called 7 years and counting 5 star review because of course, from N for nickname. I have been enjoying stacking Benjamin's for seven years and counting. It's easy to understand fun, money and life insights even if you aren't a spreadsheet nerd.

[OG]

That's fabulous.

[Jesse Kramer]

Nerd.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Thanks. Nice.

[OG]

This is the show designed for non spreadsheet nerds. We love our spreadsheet nerds, but our goal is to definitely help bring along people who aren't spreadsheet nerds. Thanks so much for the kind words. And if you have a review, you know what, I have all these books I'm trying to move out. If you send me your review, I will then say thank you with a book. Please don't leave a review just because you want a book. But man, if you do leave us a review, a, you're the type of person that I love that will take just a second and help us so we can help more people. And then I'm very happy that you're helping me move, move these books I use for research out of mom's basement. Because we're, we're going to run out of room.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

You got to leave the review out on the platform, whether it's Spotify or Apple or wherever you're going to leave the review. But then you got to let Joe know you got to shoot him a note so he knows how to get in contact with you. Right?

[OG]

Yeah. Please definitely shoot me a note.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

And if you haven't sent Joe anything in, he doesn't know where to get you your book.

[OG]

You're going to hear a lot more about this next week. And in fact, next Wednesday and specific time to come. I'm going to do a walkthrough of the new Stacking Benjamin's Vault. Three different products all created to help you lock down your financial situation. It turns out that there is a few places you know when you hit that accept cookies or you know, I want to, I want to get an email from you so I get some discount. There's a few places that sell your email to everybody and if you just lock down these basic places, ton of this junk mail goes by by. Just a ton of it goes by by. That's one of the features of the vault is telling these organizations that sell your information to keep you off that list. So that is just one aspect. Many more. I'm not going to take a ton of time because it will take a ton of time to tell you all the badass things that the Stacky Benjamin's Vault can do for you. But it's stacking benjamin.com vault and you're going to be hearing about that much more in the upcoming weeks as we roll this out. We partnered with Array, who's protected millions of people to create the Vault. They've been such a great company to work with and great at helping people lock down their financial future. So we're super excited that that is here during the holiday season. A way that we can help our stackers keep their money safe. All right, that's going to do it for today. Coming up on Friday, we begin our year end festivities with a round table featuring our regulars OG Paula Pant from Afford Anything and Jesse Kramer from the Best Interest Blog and Personal Finance for Long Term Investors podcast. They're going to talk about the things that shaped 2025, those events that happen. What are the big events that we could have Learned from in 2025 so we do better in 2026. We got that coming up in just a couple days. But coming up right now we're going to turn to my right here and say, Doug, what should we have learned from today's show?

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

I always feel at this time of the show, I always feel like the tugboat captain that, you know, gets to bring the ships into the harbor. Like, yeah, like I'm that final mile, that last mile that gets you home safely. So here we go. Here's what you should have learned today. First, take some advice from John Studzinski. When thinking about charitable giving, expand your thinking. Sure, you can give a few bucks, but giving your abilities and your time, that's a gift that can help your favorite causes change the world. Second, a sub optimal glide path might save your sanity and help your portfolio land the way you want. Seeking out only higher returns, especially when it comes to withdrawing money, often isn't the right answer. But the big lesson? Don't ask Joe's mom, who floats like a butterfly. She thinks it's her and she'll start dancing to flash dance songs just to prove it. Trust me, you don't want to be there when she brings out that bucket of water. Thanks to John Studzinski for joining us today. You'll find his new study of giving, the talent of giving, wherever books are sold. We'll also include links in our show [e-mail] this show is the property of SB Podcasts, LLC, Copyright 2025 and is created by Joe Saul Seahive. Joe gets help from a few of our neighborhood friends. You'll find out about our awesome [e-mail] along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

Oh, yeah.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

And before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don't take advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And we'll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

Sam.

[OG]

I just have to say stackers the. The lineup of mentors and John Studzinski is the penultimate one. We got one more for you.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

You just wanted to use that word Monday.

[John Studzinski]

I did.

[OG]

I. I'm doing this whole sentence just so I can say penultimate, but just the lineup lately of people. I was telling somebody on our trip when we took mom on. On the Christmas river cruise recently, by the way, you'll hear more about that over on our sister show, Stacking Adventures. I'm not gonna talk about it too much, but we did have. Mom had a great time. Her first time outside of the United States.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

But anyway, can we get the whole slideshow? Have you loaded up the carousel full of slides?

[OG]

You'll get all this in the adventure show because I know there's people that love the slideshow like I do and there's people that are like, oh, please, God, no. So go over to Stacking Adventures and in the next couple weeks you'll hear the whole story. But. But somebody asked me, of course what I do and I'm like, I get to talk to interesting people and, and make myself laugh like it is.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Thanks, Joe.

[OG]

It is such a difficult existence. Like, such a difficult existence. But people like John Staczinski and Steve Kerber and Lou Frankfurt from Coach and Richard Fane from Royal Caribbean and just some of the people that we've got to talk to lately, it just. It's so damn fun. Not to mention getting to hang out with you guys. What a fun use of time looks up for Mike.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Oh, crap. There's. There's Og and Doug. Yeah, you guys, too.

[Jesse Kramer]

You guys are. You guys are cool, too.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

Yeah.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

I mean, if you like that sort of thing.

[OG]

So on the way home, speaking of cool people, you know, I love. I love talking to you guys about movies. And I'll say this just before I know, oh, gee, you've got something about chat GPT. But this is not going to be a full review. But Doug, you reviewed the show, the studio, which is on Apple TV and is created by Seth Rogen. And your review was. It's very inside baseball. And for people that really like that sort of thing, like you, Joe, you will probably love it, but most people won't. I watch the first five episodes of season one on the flight back to the US And I'll tell you that review. And I disagree with plenty of Doug's reviews. Spot on. 100%. Spoton. I freaking love that show. I thought that show was so damn fun. I laughed my head off. But it's all inside jokes about how movies get made and very, very funny for people that. That wanted more of the inside baseball that you got maybe a decade ago with Entourage, that old show that kind of follows the early Mark Wahlberg years.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Yeah.

[OG]

If you wanted more of the agent in the show, which to me was part of my favorite part. Like Harry Fleischer, Ari Fleischer getting involved.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Unbelievable.

[OG]

In all of these negotiations. This is just one negotiation after another and dealing with talent and oh, my God, the first episode about Kool Aid. About they're trying to make the Kool Aid movie.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Yeah.

[OG]

And then Martin Scorsese wants to make a movie about Jonestown.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

That was clever.

[OG]

And Seth Rogen is trying, as the studio head is trying to get out of making the Kool Aid movie. And he's like, wait a minute. And Martin Scorsese is really in the show. There's so many cameos, like you said, Doug. And he's like, wait a minute, didn't they all die by drinking Kool Aid? So he gets to tell his boss, the who's played by Bryan Cranston. I mean, this just star Studded lineup. He gets to tell Bryan Cranston's character that, yeah, we're making a Kool Aid movie.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

I mean, I just saw that the studio is up. I don't remember some major established award for, you know, top shows of the year. I think most people will hate it. And it's on. The studio's on the list. I'm just shaking my head thinking, I just can't see most people outside of the. Outside of Southern California or New York really loving this unless you really follow.

[OG]

Movies a lot like I do. And I, I thought it was fantastic. But all the way through, I was thinking about your view, Doug. I'm like, yep, I'm. I'm like the 5% of people that will think this is just fantastic. But anyway, the studio definitely, I think a thumbs down for most people. But og you've got stuff.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

Chat GPT.

[Jesse Kramer]

You know, everything these days is chat GPT. And I don't know if you guys have. Have you done the voice chat? Like, I have not talked to it.

[John Studzinski]

Yeah, I have not.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Yeah.

[Jesse Kramer]

That's kind of weird, right? To have this conversation. It's like a conversation with somebody that really wants you to succeed. Like, they just. You're like, I don't think that's right. Yeah, you're probably right. That's wrong. You know, you should go this way. But I was curious about what ChatGPT is going to look like in the future and, like, how useful it is. You know, there's some trends that it's going to replace Google, you know, like in terms of search people, chatgpt, it's just like a Google thing. But then other areas of your life too, right? Like in terms of helping you cook and that sort of thing. And then I was thinking about it from the context of my kids and they use it, you know, in school, obviously, because every kid does. How much more are they going to use it? And I think this is a little foreshadowing into the future of what it might be like to get a job. If you have always used ChatGPT for everything.

[OG]

Hey, come on in.

[Jesse Kramer]

Did you have trouble parking?

[Joe Saul Seahive]

I'm at a job interview and was.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Asked if I had trouble parking.

[John Studzinski]

What do I say?

[ChatGPT]

That's a common icebreaker question. A simple response would be, no, no trouble at all.

[Jesse Kramer]

I appreciate you checking.

[OG]

I'm hiring a janitor. What are good job interview questions for?

[ChatGPT]

Strong interview questions. You could try.

[Jesse Kramer]

How do you prioritize tasks when there's.

[John Studzinski]

A lot to clean?

[Jesse Kramer]

I start by looking at what needs the most attention, like high traffic or high risk areas. What are high risk areas?

[ChatGPT]

High risk areas generally refer to dangerous places such as a city struck by an earthquake. Earthquake. Or perhaps a war zone.

[OG]

Oh my God.

[Jesse Kramer]

What do I ask a janitor who's been in a war zone?

[ChatGPT]

If a janitor has been in a war zone, it's best to avoid questions that are deeply personal or traumatic.

[John Studzinski]

Like what?

[Jesse Kramer]

Do you prefer spending time indoors or outdoors? Do I prefer indoors or outdoors?

[ChatGPT]

Either can be preferred, depending on your mood.

[John Studzinski]

What is my mood?

[ChatGPT]

How are you feeling? Anxious? Excited? Wistful?

[Jesse Kramer]

Curious? Excited?

[OG]

A man has told me about a third place which is neither indoors or outdoors, but simply called Excited.

[Jesse Kramer]

Where is this and how easy is it to clean?

[ChatGPT]

This could be referring to a metaphysical state in which energy supersedes matter. It's safe to say this place is not easy to clean.

[Jesse Kramer]

Well, if you can clean that, you can clean anything. You're hired.

[OG]

How long is appropriate to shake hands?

[Jesse Kramer]

Just shaking hands. Because the phone died. It said low battery.

[OG]

So they can't stop.

[Jesse Kramer]

They. They can't stop. They don't.

[OG]

They have no idea what to do next.

[Jesse Kramer]

I just love how it goes. Like, what are high risk areas? High risk areas are like.

[Joe Saul Seahive]

Like.

[Jesse Kramer]

A man has told me of a place that is neither indoors or outdoors, but it's called Excited.

[OG]

Hey, Chat GPT. How do you end a podcast?