How to Make Your Money Support the Life You Want (SB1793)

Summary

Podcast Summary: "How to Make Your Money Support the Life You Want"

The Stacking Benjamins Show, Ep. 1793 – January 21, 2026
Host: Joe Saul-Sehy
Guest Host: Dana Anspach (Sensible Money)
Guest: Andy Hill (Marriage, Kids and Money)
Theme: Crafting a life where your money supports the life and priorities you want, including the story of Andy Hill’s break from corporate America and practical conversation about understanding life insurance and financial scams.

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Episode Overview

In this inspiring and candid episode, Joe Saul-Sehy welcomes Andy Hill—host of the “Marriage, Kids and Money” podcast—to discuss taking control of your time, transitioning away from a traditional career in favor of a life aligned with core values, and building financial systems to support this journey. Co-host Dana Anspach offers expert perspectives on retirement planning and life insurance, particularly following headlines around celebrity insurance lawsuits. Together, the crew covers actionable steps to escape the corporate grind, practical strategies for protecting yourself from scams, and how to make intentional choices so your money truly supports your best life, rather than limiting it.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Andy Hill’s Journey: Escaping the Corporate Grind

• Corporate Life as a "Box": Andy describes his former corporate career as a self-built box: “I had this family that I wanted to provide for ... but in order to do that, I had a corporate career that paid for all those great things... I felt a little bit owned by my company.” (11:24)
• Personal Sacrifices: He was missing important family moments due to work travel and weekend commitments. “I was missing my daughter's birthday, I was missing my son's sporting events... each time I had to say no, it pulled at my heart.” (12:04)
• Material "Trappings": Early career choices about home, car, and education were driven by societal expectations—not personal satisfaction—leading to debt and constraint. (12:51)

2. Building a Foundation for Transition

• Preparation Steps:
  • Testing the Side Hustle: “Test out the side hustle to see if it actually fit.”
  • Will People Pay You?: “Make sure someone would actually pay me to do … small business.”
  • “F.U. Money”: “12 months of expenses that helped me to say, even if I completely mess this up... I’ve got 12 months of runway.”
  • Reversible Decision: “I can always go back to my corporate job and try it all over again.” (14:27)
• How Long Was the Side Hustle? Andy ran Marriage, Kids and Money as a hobby/side hustle for four years before taking the leap full time in January 2020. (17:35)
• Challenges of Entrepreneurship:
  • Volatility & Inconsistency: “There are months where revenue is hot… and then there are months where it’s like, whoop, where did that go?” (21:23)
  • Juggling Many Roles: The solopreneur becomes their own accounting, legal, sales, etc.
  • Client Dependence: Relying on a few clients can create sudden income drops if their circumstances change.
  • Emergency Fund for Business: Recommends separate business savings of 3–6 months’ burn rate for lean times. (23:35)

3. Redefining Work/Life on Your Own Terms

• Three-Day Workweek: Andy’s long-term goal became a three-day workweek, freeing up time for family, health, and personal passions. “Why do we work five days and have two days to relax?” (25:31)
• Not Immediate, But Incremental: Achieving reduced work hours took years and ongoing refinement.
• Intentionality & Boundaries: Tips for ‘turning it off’: Delete social media and work emails from the phone, schedule real downtime, and actively resist letting work bleed into personal time. (28:44)
• Celebrating Wins: Andy uses daily tracking and goal-setting tools to celebrate milestones and stay accountable to family and personal aspirations. (35:38)

4. Financial Moves to Enable Life Design

• Debt Elimination: The family paid off student loans, car loans, the mortgage (despite a low interest rate), and prioritized a manageable cash flow.
  • “Paying off the mortgage... was about buying time. This was saying, if our expenses are... $20,000 we didn’t need to have as much in our income.” (34:30)
• Coast FIRE: Built up investments so that without further contributions, their nest egg would likely grow to meet retirement needs.
• Flexible Family Income: Both Andy and his wife now work part time, doing things they love—as opposed to maximizing paycheck above all.

5. Life Insurance: Lessons from High-Profile Scams

• Headline: NASCAR driver Kyle Busch’s public lawsuit over a failed indexed universal life (IUL) policy.
  • Busch and spouse claim they lost $8 million they invested, believing the policy would support retirement income—but were hit with surprise ongoing funding demands.
  • Dana: “The product itself is not a scam,—it has its appropriate uses. But the way it can be designed and sold can end up very scam-like.” (53:47)
• How IULs Work:
  • Permanent policies like IULs combine insurance with an investment-like cash value, but are highly customizable—sometimes maximizing agent commission rather than client benefit.
  • Policy illustrations (projections) can be wildly optimistic. Buyers should insist on seeing the guaranteed (worst-case) scenario, not just a rosy illustration. (57:04)
• Critical Life Insurance Shopping Advice:
  • Ask for worst-case scenario (“what if everything goes badly?”).
  • Focus on the guarantees of any insurance contract; don’t buy based on projections of hypothetical returns.
  • For most, term life is simpler, far more cost effective, and sufficient—permanent life is a niche product best suited for high-income, high-net-worth families who have already maxed other retirement/investment vehicles.
  • Quote, Dana: “Do we call a screwdriver a scam when what we really needed was a hammer? … it's how that product is presented and whether it actually fits the needs and financial circumstances of the client.” (68:12)

6. General Personal Finance Wisdom

• Budgeting for Young Adults: Dana shares how simply creating a basic budget with young clients can create transformative clarity, especially regarding lifestyle creep and income deficits. (46:02)
• "Do the Math" vs. Emotional Choices: Some decisions (like paying off a 3% mortgage) are as much about peace of mind and life design as they are about math—if paying it down creates the freedom you want, it can be the right choice even if not mathematically optimal. (44:21)

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• Andy Hill:

  • “I felt a little bit owned by my company... I was missing important things at home.” (11:24–12:04)
  • “I don’t ever want to be the guy who says, ‘quit your job because it feels good.’ That’s not healthy. But if you do enough of the financial right moves beforehand, you can make a leap.” (14:27)
  • “Play-test what you think you’re going to do, don’t just jump into it.” (17:14)
  • “The first couple months [of self-employment] were fantastic... then March 2020 came. Global pandemic, boom. Advertising dollars went down. All of a sudden, this seemed like a really bad idea. But my wife said, ‘You got this, man. You can do this.’” (18:42–19:55)
  • “Goal was to move toward a three-day workweek... with the other days for family, health, and friends. I want time satisfaction, not just net worth.” (25:31)
  • “If you’re not good with volatility, small business ownership can be really, really difficult.” (23:35)
  • “I keep a daily habit tracker ... to make sure I’m working 20–25 hours a week, not just talking about it on a podcast.” (35:38)

• Dana Anspach:

  • On policy illustrations: “That illustration can be run...and what's actually legally required is also a parallel illustration that shows worst case or minimum guaranteed outcomes.” (57:04)
  • On budgeting: “Just a simple Excel sheet of what’s coming in and out—an eye opener for young clients.” (46:02)
  • On permanent life insurance: “As financial planners, we like the mathematically correct solution...but really it’s what works for you.” (44:43)

• Joe Saul-Sehy:

  • “Some decisions in finance aren’t just about the math. If paying down a low-rate mortgage lets you have more freedom and choices, that’s a win.” (44:21)

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Key Takeaways

• Design Your Life Backwards: Start with the life you truly want, then design your financial plan to enable it—not the other way around.
• Prepare Before You Leap: Play-test your “dream job” as a side hustle; save up enough “F.U. Money” (generally a year of living expenses); and remember, you can always go back.
• Automate & Systematize: Use habits, boundaries (no work email on weekends!), and intentional budgeting to keep working toward your ideal lifestyle.
• Simplify Life Insurance: Know what your goals are, and remember that fancy policies are often more lucrative for salespeople than for buyers. Insist on full transparency in illustrations and never buy based on hypothetical returns.
• Don’t Neglect the Basics: Whether it’s budgeting or estate planning, getting basic financial hygiene right is more important than chasing optimization.
• Celebrate Along the Way: Find joy in the process and the milestones—not just the finish line.

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [11:24] – Andy Hill paints the picture: "Stuck" in corporate life
• [14:27] – Steps for preparing to leave traditional career
• [17:35] – Four years of "side hustle" before full-time leap
• [21:23] – The volatility and roles of entrepreneurship
• [25:31] – Dreaming of (and gradually creating) a three-day workweek
• [28:44] – How Andy intentionally “turns off” work to enjoy life
• [35:38] – Tracking goals and celebrating wins
• [53:47] – Life insurance policies: what went wrong for Kyle Busch
• [57:04] – The reality (and risks) of policy illustrations
• [68:12] – Are insurance products scams or tools?

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Tone and Style

The episode blended humor and relatability with practical, no-nonsense financial wisdom. Joe and Dana keep things light (with “mom’s basement” banter), Andy offers real talk on lifestyle design, and all three are transparent about the difficulties, emotional aspects, and surprises along the path to 'owning your time.' The technical discussion about insurance is made accessible for all listeners, encouraging skepticism and due diligence.

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Useful Links from the Show

• Andy Hill’s new book: Own Your Time – 10 Financial Steps to Put Your Family First and Escape the Corporate Grind
• Dana Anspach: SensibleMoney.com, and YouTube channel “Making Retirement Make Sense”
• Stacking Benjamins Monday episode (“The ABCs of How to Pick Life Insurance”) for further details on choosing the right policy
• Stacking Benjamins Show Notes Page

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Final Thoughts

This episode will resonate strongly with listeners yearning for a life where their money serves their priorities—not the other way around. By mixing inspiring real-life stories, practical financial tactics, and clear-eyed warnings about “one-size-fits-all” solutions, Joe, Dana, and Andy deliver guidance that’s both actionable and empowering.

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For more details, tools, and full episode transcripts, visit stackingbenjamins.com

Transcript

[Joe]

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[Andy Hill]

Okay, right here, it says right here.

[Doug]

In this account we have $401,000.

[Dana Otzbach]

Jackpot.

[Kyle Busch]

Nope, that says you have a 401 account.

[Dana Otzbach]

If you liquidate that right now, you'll have, you know, maybe $5,000.

[Doug]

So what happened to the other $396,000?

[Dana Otzbach]

What is wrong with the two of you?

[Doug]

Live from Joe's mom's basement, it's the Stacking Benjam. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and do you really own your time? On today's show, we'll share the story of one man who said, forget it, forget about it. To corporate America and made the switch to focus on what was important to him instead of someone else. That's right. It's the host of the Marriage, Kids and Money podcast, Andy Hill. And in today's headline, an athlete is suing an insurance company over a policy they call a scam. Is it actually a scam? And how do you make sure you aren't a victim? More importantly, how do you pick a good life insurance policy in the first place? We'll help you make better insurance decisions on today's show. That's not all, though. We'll also share a TikTok minute about the importance of giving our younger generation a head start in life. And then, of course, I'll share some absolute, absolutely shareable trivia. And now, two people who are here to share their money knowledge with you. It's Joe, Saul Sehi, and from Sensible Money, cfp, Dana and Spot.

[Joe]

Hey there. Happy Wednesday, stackers. Welcome back to the Stacky Benjamin Show. Sit back, relax. You made it. You found us. We're gonna have some fun. And we definitely got the upgrade, Doug, because while OG is playing in the Caribbean, we got from Sensible Money, Dana Otzbach's here. How are you?

[Dana Otzbach]

I'm doing good and love that introduction.

[Doug]

Save that for our favorite one, Dana.

[Joe]

He does parties, bar mitzvahs. He's there for, for it all.

[Dana Otzbach]

You're hired.

[Joe]

Well, for the four people that haven't heard you, the maybe three times a year you're on Stacking Benjamins with us, usually on a roundtable episode. Tell everybody a little bit about what you do over there at Sensible Money because you have a real focus on retirement and people on that Runway.

[Dana Otzbach]

Yeah, absolutely. I've been practicing for 30 years and now we have a team of 17 of us and three interns right now. It's crazy. But Sensible Money is a fee only registered investment advisory firm. We focus solely on people who are entering what we call that decumulation or withdrawal phase where they need to live off their acorns. We work with clients in over 38 states and we love helping people find that peace of mind and making them feel comfortable spending their money in retirement, which is harder than it sounds.

[Joe]

Isn't that wild? I mean, if you've been a saver your whole life and you're waiting, you're waiting, you're waiting, but you get there and you're not going to change overnight.

[Dana Otzbach]

Yeah. And most people who were good savers, it's for a reason. And there's just this angst that happens. I've had clients just put off their first withdrawal and put it off and put it off. And we've even had times where like I'm like I'm just direct depositing it to you. You're going to take it.

[Joe]

Do with it what you will. I'm sending it to you.

[Dana Otzbach]

Absolutely.

[Joe]

That's fabulous. Hey, before we get going and I'm going to tell everybody in a moment about our special guest today, Andy Hill, who is an amazing, amazing guy with a story that I think for all of our stackers is going to be really inspirational today. No matter where you're at in life. We have today, if you're listening to this on Wednesday, we are going to be live on YouTube twice today diving into the Stacking Benjamin's vault, which is all of those basic things, the foundational stuff around your money. The Ferrets has been the wheel here. Mom's basement have finally made their master product and we call it the Stacking Benjamin's Vault. Go to stacking benjamin.com vault for more on that. But join us today on YouTube. We will have the first run through of the vault at 4pm Eastern. That's 1pm Pacific. And then we're going to do it again at 8:00pm Eastern, 5:00pm Pacific. That's over on our YouTube channel. And by the way, Dana, speaking of YouTube channel, you guys just launched a YouTube channel.

[Dana Otzbach]

We did. We're so excited. It's at making retirement make sense. And we will be bringing more content around the retirement phase and some content just for anyone. So one of our first episodes is on preventing fraud and really how to protect your accounts. There's all kinds of scams and hackers we've seen mean all kinds of things firsthand, and we share that knowledge and the simple things you can do to protect yourself and that. That's critical no matter what phase you're in.

[Joe]

They're getting so good, Dana. I got a thing from, quote, Microsoft today that looked very, very, very real. Like, very real. They're like, hey, thanks for verifying your new site. And then they gave me the name of the site that I had supposedly verified and clicked the link, and you're all verified. And I'm like, who is stealing from me? Which is funny, because had I clicked that link, they would have been the one stealing from me.

[Andy Hill]

Yeah.

[Dana Otzbach]

And there's not only links and text, but there's also people that can log or put things on your computer. You don't even know how it gets there, that logging your keystrokes and then they get your passwords to your financial institutions. It's. It's scary stuff.

[Joe]

It's so horrible. A great book that I just read, by the way, a fiction book. I picked it up at the store because it was recommended, you know, blurb by Stephen King. And he's like, this is a great ride. And it was a romp. It's called Mrs. Plansky's Revenge. But, Dana, it's all about exactly what you're talking about. This woman who is retired, she had a great life, made a bunch of money. She gets a call from her quote grandson, the middle of the night, who needs some money and doesn't want to bother his parents. He's embarrassed, so she gives him the routing number to her bank account. They proceed to steal all of her savings. The cool thing about this story, by the way, obviously, it's all fiction. She goes to find the people and to get her money back.

[Dana Otzbach]

Good for her. Probably. Probably not realistic, but good for her.

[Joe]

Not realistic at all. But still, if you want A good read, Mrs. Blansky's Revenge. By the way, if you want some good radio, Andy Hill is exactly that. Not only is he our mentor today, he also is the mind behind marriage, kids and money. Where he focuses on taking your focus and taking it away from what everybody else wants from you and really focusing on the things that are important to you and to him. It was his marriage, his kids, and having the flexibility with his money to do what he wanted to do. And he's got a great message. He's got kind of a, kind of a thing, some stuff that he did that the average person doesn't think about. That's why I really wanted to kick off the year with Andy Hill. Because if you're going to make 2026 work for you, well, then Andy is the perfect guy to tell a story about making your time your own. So right after the break, we're going to talk to Andy Hill. But first, we have a few sponsors who make sure we can keep on keeping on here. Mom's Basement as Dana we like to say the Stacky Benjamin Show. Always free and worth every penny. Finally, somebody laughed. Doug that's why I like Dana so much.

[Doug]

We got top tier talent.

[Joe]

All right, we're going to hear from them and then we'll be back as Andy Hill, making his way down to mom's basement. Like the mechanic with his car, I waited too long to get life insurance. Luckily, nothing happened to me. But of course, on stacking Benjamins over the years and even during my financial planning years, that's not always the case. And I can't tell you how good I felt when I finally realized that if something happened to me that my family, my kids, my spouse fully covered. And what was shocking to me was how easy the process was. And this is back then, right? This is, this is, this is a long time ago. And now it's even easier today. Ethos makes getting life insurance super fast and easy. It's all 100% online. Didn't have that before. Get a quote in seconds. That didn't happen. Apply in minutes. Also, I had pages and pages. Not the case anymore. And you get same day coverage. No medical exam. You just answer a few simple health questions. You get up to $3 million in coverage. Some policies are as low as $30 a month. And as of March 2025, Business Insider named Ethos the number one no medical exam instant life insurance provider. And Ethos says 4.8 out of 5 stars on Trustpilot. There's over 3,000 reviews. Protect your family with life insurance from Ethos now by going to ethos.com/sb. You tell them that we sent you that way ethos.comsb in as little as 10 minutes, you can get your free quote and up to $3 million in coverage at ethos.comsb. that's ethos.comsb. application times and rates may vary. If you're the purchasing manager at a manufacturing plant, you know having a trusted partner makes all the difference. That's why, hands down, you count on Grainger for auto reordering. With on time restocks, your team will have the cut resistant gloves they need at the start of their shift and you can end your day knowing they've got safety well in hand. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done. Super happy this guy is across the card table from me again. Usually though, it's been with either some cards or a board game between us. Today we're actually going to talk about owning your time. Andy Hill's back. How are you, man?

[Andy Hill]

I am great, Joe. Thank you so much for having me back.

[Joe]

What a way to start the year. By the way, talking about this idea of maybe making 20, 26 and beyond different, and there may be some stackers in our audience who feel the way that you felt when you decided to make the jump to really change your life, to take a whole right hand turn and do things differently. Can you paint a picture for us of maybe, I don't know, six months before you made the jump? Like, what was Andy feeling? Show us what your life was like leading up to the move. What was going on?

[Andy Hill]

I was feeling pretty stuck in a corporate career that I had. It's almost like a box that I had built for myself. You know, I had this family that I wanted to provide for and give them all the great things in life. But in order to do that, I had a corporate career that paid for all those great things in life. So it was like, oh, I've created a box for myself that I can't seem to get out of. Because this corporate career was not one that I enjoyed. I felt a little bit owned by my company. I was traveling a lot. I worked in corporate event marketing, so I would often be working on weekends and traveling. And I was missing some pretty important things that were going on at home. I've got two awesome, adorable kids and I just felt like I was kind of missing out on their lives.

[Joe]

What were you missing?

[Andy Hill]

I was missing my daughter's birthday. I was missing my son's sporting events. I was just missing these important things that I'd have to say, no, sorry, I'm on the road for that. And it just kind of continued to pull at my heart a little bit each time I had to say no. And so I was kind of seeking an out, man. I was seeking an out from this corporate career and trying to come up with something new that would give me the time, yes, to provide for my family, but maybe also the ability to own a little bit more of my time so I can actually be with my family.

[Joe]

The point you make that I really, really like that I saw you make in your new book on this topic, wasn't just your career that own you, though. It was also the things that you bought that own you.

[Andy Hill]

Absolutely. Yeah. They use that word, the trappings of life, you know, and I think I had a lot of those trappings. You know, in the beginning, it was the house that I couldn't afford. It was the luxury car that I thought was more of the thing that I needed to have. Hey, my parents had luxury cars. I'm only 20. I should have one of those, right? MBA, you know, like, hey, I think I need to have an MBA in order to make more money or honestly, just like an ego trip to make me feel really good about being smart. So it was these things that I kind of fell into at the beginning portion of my career and even in the beginning portion of my marriage where I thought, okay, these are the things I'm supposed to do because society's doing them. And with that, you know, I didn't actually have the money to buy some of those things. So I got obviously a mortgage, but then a home equity line of credit. I got a luxury car loan. I have student loans for my mba. It's just all these things that I wanted but didn't actually have the money to pay for. For sure.

[Joe]

But what's funny though, dude, is that I hear all that and yet I know what stackers are thinking, because staying the course is so intoxicating. You get this paycheck every two weeks or once a month or whenever, maybe every week, I don't know. But you get this consistent paycheck even when you don't really feel like showing up, you show up. You can kind of, you know, phone it in a little bit if you want to, and you still get paid. You also, everybody's talking about. You've been talking about. We've been talking about the fact that healthcare this year is going to cost more than it did last year. And holy crap, just thinking about all the changes with navigating that whole maze, I feel like that makes it really enticing to stay. I gotta think that even during that time Andy, you kept thinking, well, but.

[Andy Hill]

Well, I completely agree with you, Joe. And I never want to be the guy that gets on shows like this and says, quit your job because it feels good. You know, I don't. I don't think that's healthy. I don't think that's safe. But, hey, if you do enough of the financial right moves beforehand, I think you can make a leap. So one of the financial moves, obviously, was testing out if I actually even enjoyed having this side hustle and maybe trying it out afterwards. So testing out that side hustle to see if it actually fit. And number two, making sure somebody would actually pay me to do said side hustle or small business idea to go on my own. And then the third thing is enough money in, like, an f. U. Money fund, like, 12 months of expenses that helped me to say, okay, even if I completely mess this up for myself, for my family, for my kids, I've got 12 months of Runway to say, okay, you gave it a shot. Here's some money to cover you. And then the fourth realization, that I can always go back to my corporate job and try it all over again, because I knew I was a good producer, and I knew that I could make an impact at another company.

[Joe]

Could you still do that?

[Andy Hill]

I think I could. You know, after being a solopreneur for five years now, I really like it, and I like the flexibility of what I've developed. I think what I've had the opportunity to do now is connect with companies and brands and nonprofits, even that I would feel a little bit more passionate spending more of my time working with. And as my kids get a little older, you know, they need less of dad, and my daughter tells me quite a bit that she needs less of me. So I will find that I have more time. But still, in this season of my life, I think I still have a role here as father inside my house, and my wife still likes to see my face every once in a while. But, you know, who knows? As I get a little older, I might decide that, hey, I want to spend more of my time dedicated towards something that I really care about. Not just go back to a corporate job because it pays me good money, but one where I feel like I have some, I guess, passion towards. I feel like I'm moving in a direction that pays me money well, but also helps me feel fulfilled.

[Joe]

I feel. It's funny, even as I ask you that question, I debate it for myself, and I'm like, I think I could. I've been out for A long time.

[Andy Hill]

Yeah.

[Joe]

But, man, I could, but I'd be really crappy employee. Andy.

[Andy Hill]

Me too. That's such a true statement. As soon as I'd be asked to do something that's like, completely out of my comfort zone, I'd be like, yeah, I don't want to do that. And then I'd probably get fired.

[Doug]

That's a me, too.

[Joe]

I would question the moves the boss made way too much. I'm like, what's the ROI on that?

[Andy Hill]

That's true. Because there's so many things that I was asked to do in my 20s and 30s when I was working in corporate world, where I just lowered my head and said, yes, sir, yes, ma', am. You know, and I just did them. But now, after leaving, I don't know if I could do that.

[Joe]

But I love the idea, too, of play testing what you think you're going to do, not just jumping into it. Because so many of us think we have these dreams in our head, that it's going to be unicorns and rainbows and, you know, that it hasn't been. I'm going to ask you about that coming up. But how long was that Runway? How long did you have marriage, kids, and money before you said, you know what? I'm going to. I feel confident enough to make this go full time.

[Andy Hill]

Yeah. I played around with this. A hobby first, I'll call it, and then side hustle for four years before I made enough contracts and business where I felt, okay, I think I could do this. I think I could go for it. If I had a full workweek to make this happen, then I think I could do it. And even in my first year, sorry, the year before I left, I was making enough money where I said, okay, if I'm making this with a quarter of the amount of time that I'm spending, then maybe I could double that, triple that in the years to come. And with this, you know, slush fund of money, it'll help me pivot and grow over time. So, yeah, four. Four solid years.

[Joe]

What was the year you finally made the move?

[Andy Hill]

2020. January of 2020 was the year that I made the move. And there was a minute stuff that happened that year. Joe, you were. You were my neighbor.

[Joe]

Did something happen then?

[Andy Hill]

Well, look, I'll say it from a Joe perspective. We were doing a lot of board game nights, and then Something happened in 2020 where we stopped doing board game nights for a while.

[Joe]

We. Why would we ever stop doing that?

[Andy Hill]

Yeah. History lesson. Yeah. So I jumped in January 2020. Gave my notice with my wife's blessing, of course. She said, hey man, you got this. Go for it. That was a big thing for me, really, to have the confidence of my wife to say, go for it. And then I went for it. And for the first couple of months, man, it was fantastic. I had so much more time to be that present dad and be a great husband and grow my business and work out more, volunteer in the community, like too many things. And then March of 2020 came around. Global pandemic boom. And it all changed, man. My. My solid contracts that I had set up went away. The advertising dollars went down. All of a sudden, this seemed like a really bad idea. It really did. I got low, I got depressed. I felt like I had made a choice that was very poor for my family, especially as a guy in his peak earning years and with health care, all the benefits, the things that you and I talked about at the top of the show, was this a big mistake? And I got really sad. What did Nicole say at that moment? My wife was so supportive. She said, I remember, you got this, man. You got this, you can do this. And she had my back. My father at the time, same thing. You've got this, you can do this. I know you can. Great people in our community like you. It's just great to have voices and partners that see you through tough times. And then my fourth really great buddy at the time was that big pile of money. I know I keep coming back to that. But having a year's worth of expenses really made me feel confident that, okay, I can borrow from this, take from this, use it to live our lives, to get through this one in a hundred year thing that's happening right now and helped me tide this over. And honestly, at the end of the day, I think we used about three to four months of it. That three to four months, though, allowed me to pivot, figure things out, trim where I didn't need to be spending so much, and then grow from there. And it really made a big difference.

[Joe]

I want to talk about. And by the way, I don't remember being positive. I think I said, man, Andy, you really this up?

[Andy Hill]

That sounds about right, actually.

[Joe]

I'm kidding.

[Andy Hill]

I didn't say.

[Doug]

I did not say that.

[Andy Hill]

I think you said something like, podcaster, that's not a very profitable business choice, my friend.

[Joe]

You ever see how your neighbor is drowning? He's drowning, and you're going to get into this stuff. There's a tendency, as you know, when you hear people like Cody Sanchez or Gary Vaynerchuk, for people to think that being an entrepreneur is just unicorns and rainbows. Yeah. But what are some of the downsides you found to owning your time versus working the 9 to 5?

[Andy Hill]

Yeah, I will say the first thing is the volatility. As you know, there are months where revenue is hot and things are looking good and you're feeling like you're on top of the world. And then there are months where it's like, whoop, where did that go? So inconsistency. It's really nice to get a paycheck every couple of weeks, no matter what. Even if you were playing Tetris on your computer or whatever, like you're still getting paid. Not the same when you own your own business. And then number two is, you know how you work in that corporate environment and you got all those different departments, the accounting department, the legal department, marketing, sales, etc. You are now all of those things as your solo business owner and you have to represent in those areas. And if you do not make sure your clients or whoever pays you money is actually following through with that payment, then you do not have any paychecks coming. So these are funny realizations that I learned in year one and two. A third one is leveraging and leaning in on one client or two clients and seeing that's plenty, things are going really well, you know, that nothing's going to change, and then not continuing on the sales cycle to try to get more clients or more business. And that has hit me over the years too. So I've had a client for a year, two years, three years, and the money's coming in really well. And then all of a sudden, and it's, it's all of a sudden the change happens. And then since you are so used to that money coming in, it can feel like a big impact. So a big learning lesson that I had with that one is keep some money on the side for those tough times in your business, like a business savings account, business emergency fund for that burn rate. That happens I like three to six months at least for my business, based on the experience of things that I've had. And that's helped me to see through some tough months. But those are big learnings that I've had and they've been big moments of high joys and then really low lows. So if you're not feeling the stomach of the volatility of that type of thing, small business ownership can be really, really difficult to do. So it's not for everybody. And some of these Big leaps like Joe and I have made can be a lot for people and can turn.

[Joe]

People off okay, 100%. I think about the times when we lost clients and advertisers. It usually had nothing to do with us. I could think of one instance where it truly just was clearly not a fit, wasn't working out. I was actually kind of happy to see him go in that one. I could see it. I could see it coming. But the other ones, when you've got a great client and it's working out for everybody and then all of a sudden the company gets sold or gets spun off in one case. In another, there was a big scandal at the business and they change everything. All kinds of craziness has happened that you end up becoming collateral damage.

[Andy Hill]

Absolutely. Yeah. And even sometimes it's like things are going well, the business is going well, the client leaves and then there's a new person in that role. And they say, I'm going to work with somebody else. And it's like, so it's nothing to do with what you did, it's just change. And every couple, it seems to be about every two years. And then there's a big change. I'm like, okay, knowing that cycle I need to prepare financially for when that happens. So it's additional new sales and having some, you know, some dry powder per.

[Joe]

Se, which is interesting because that goes along with the stat that I read recently about people's job satisfaction in a single role is generally about two years and then you. And then you become less satisfied. So expecting the person you're working with, that relationship to change in two years, I think is a good thing. There were a couple more that I had that were. I thought, I thought before I was an entrepreneur that I could take a lot more time off. And I want to talk about this because you have done that, taken time away and you can do it, but there's choices that you have to make to make that happen. And I think it really needs to be a system. You came up with the idea of a three day week. Where does the idea of three. And people, by the way, are going to go, oh my God, three day week, that's fantastic. Where did the idea of a three day week come from?

[Andy Hill]

I think it started with me just dreaming of what a really cool life would be and just kind of looking at the general calendar saying, why do we work five days and then have two days for relaxation? Shouldn't we just kind of flip that on its head and have more days for relaxation and less days for work. So it didn't happen all of a sudden. Of course when I started in 2020, I was working just as many hours as I was in my corporate career, maybe even more so to make sure that this thing was successful. But over time I've had that goal in mind of saying, well, what can I do to work less and maybe still grow my income and then really with that extra time of those four days, lean into other identities that I actually care about, like taking care of my health, being a better husband, being a better father, being a better friend, spending time with my aging parents so that I have some great memories with them as they're in their late 70s. Things like these I cared about more than growing some large business. That made me more than I already have in my net worth. I got to a point of financial satisfaction and I said, well, I want to have some more time satisfaction. So my script flipped a little bit as I went from full time work in 2020 to more of a part time role here in 2026.

[Joe]

One of those sad points for me and I love the fact that you said you didn't get there right away. It was a goal. When I first became an entrepreneur, I thought, well, I work for myself and even my spouse thought this. I work for myself so I can just go do whatever. And what's funny is you can, but it's a choice, especially at first because you're not going to get paid if you don't work. And sadly I found that when I first became an entrepreneur and I'm sitting around doing all the magical things I love doing, but none of them revenue generating, all of a sudden I had no revenue.

[Doug]

I was like, dude, what's going on?

[Joe]

How come this isn't the magical lifestyle that I thought it was?

[Andy Hill]

I, yeah, I feel you there. Go ahead.

[TikTok Narrator]

Sorry.

[Joe]

No, it's fine. But you truly do have to plan like you did. You have to plan on, okay, I have this goal and then systematize to get there. But man, I, oh, I did that all wrong. And then, you know. And I know you have there been times you've been working on the weekend?

[Andy Hill]

Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, I place this out there as the goal of three days. You know, I, I'm launching a book right now. When I was writing that book, I was definitely exceeding my three day work week for sure. And it was one of those things where I'm going to write this book. Oh yeah, I've got plenty of time to do it, man. I procrastinated thinking I had a lot more time than I did. And those last couple of months of writing the book, yeah, those were five day weeks maybe bleeding into Saturday morning even. And so yeah, you got to be flexible with it. But if your North Star for me at least was, hey, I would like to move towards a three day workweek and a four day weekend, I continued to get there over time. These were like 1% improvements over the years. They weren't immediate and it's not an immediate thing, but if that's what you care about, more time ownership, more autonomy of your week and ownership of that, then you can continue to move that way. And that's what I cared about.

[Joe]

The other problem that I've always had and I still have, and I know it's difficult for you too, is turning it off.

[Andy Hill]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Like when you have those four days, in fact, you've got a whole chapter in your book about making good use of those four days. Actually being in the four days.

[Andy Hill]

Yeah, it's tough because I now have work that I really like and I really enjoy. So come the end of Thursday, I really have to actively turn my brain off or turn off systems that will bring me back to that. So I have deleted my social media apps from my phone because I know the addiction that it is to check and get that little dopamine hit that people gave me a lot of likes on my Instagram post or whatever it ends up being. I turn off my email from my phone too. So I don't look at any email starting on Thursday night. That way I am intentionally saying, hey, this phone in my hand, there's no work pulls for it anymore. And I know from my my brain, just because I feel it, Friday is like I'm still thinking about work up until almost Friday night. So I know that I need this almost like brain relaxation time for it to fade away from thinking about work so that by Saturday rolling around I can say, hey, I'm focused on family, friends, fun things like that. Now when I was with my corporate job, I would be working up until Friday thinking about work on Saturday and then Sunday would be around and then I'd be thinking about work again because I got to prepare because Monday's almost here and it's like I would never not be thinking about work at that point. So with this, I'm at least letting my brain come down from work. And then Monday comes around. Okay, what's the week going to look like? Let's plan it out and then start to work on Tuesday.

[Joe]

It's that Jerry Seinfeld thing. Have you seen the Jerry Seinfeld skit about that? He's like, man, it's 7:00am I got to get ready for work because I got to be at work at 8. And then it's 8 o' clock and you get to work and you're like, oh, what am I going to have for lunch? I wonder what? And then you, you go, you go to lunch and you're sitting at lunch, you're like, man, I got a busy afternoon. And then that afternoon you're like, I gotta get out of here because I gotta beat traffic at 5 o'.

[Doug]

Clock.

[Joe]

And then you're on your way home and you're. You're never living in the moment. You're always living somewhere else. And it's so hard to do.

[Andy Hill]

Yeah, that's the tough practice.

[Joe]

You gave us. Two things to do to get there first, play test number two is build that big pot of money, that emergency fund, so that you give yourself a good, solid ramp to get through, whether it's bad timing or things just aren't going to work the way that you think that they are. What's third on that list? Is it looking at your debt load? Is it looking at your budget? What would be number three?

[Andy Hill]

Yeah, I mean, if you're thinking about financial preparation outside of, you know, testing it and making sure you have money for the Runway, I would say trying to take care of any larger expenses so you can bring down your overall need for that income in your business. So for us, we did things like eliminating all of our debt. So this was my student loans, and this was the car loan, the heloc, getting rid of all of that. We worked on our investments early on in our 20s and 30s, to build up about a half a million dollars in investments. And this helped us to hit what we like to call coast fire in our community, where we said, hey, without any further contributions, this thing could potentially get us to 2 million or beyond by the time we're in our 60s without any further contributions. And this could take care of us in our retirement on top of what we might receive for Social Security. So it's like checking these boxes off debt free Coast Fire. And then we even paid off our mortgage, too. And by paying off our mortgage, that helped to lower our expenses even more. So by approaching solopreneurship in this way, I only have to earn so much in order to make this work because our expenses have been cut drastically. So when we started, we only really needed about $6,000 per month to live Our comfortable life. So between one part time worker and another part time worker, that the fourth element there is really a wife that's also working part time too, that supports us too. So we have two incomes coming in. We just don't need to earn as much in order to live our comfortable life.

[Joe]

But even though she prefers not being a solopreneur, and this is interesting for people that during this conversation have gone like, you know what, I don't like those downsides.

[Andy Hill]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

The other cushions that you built up by getting rid of your debt. Nicole, you say, is able to do what she loves to do as well.

[Andy Hill]

Exactly. And she's not a business owner. She looks at what I'm doing for growing a business, she's like, that's crazy. I would never do that. I don't want to sell anything. I just want to go to work and get things done. So what she did was pursued part time work.

[Joe]

I remember having a conversation with your amazing spouse one time about how they were promoting her. And this is one of my favorite stories your wife ever told me, Andy. They were talking about promoting her and I think she said something to her boss like, if you promote me, I'm going to quit.

[Andy Hill]

Yes, yes.

[Joe]

How many people get to say that?

[Andy Hill]

Isn't that great? Yeah. She was working in corporate America still. She said, hey, let me go back to corporate America, but just part time and see how it is. She still hated it. It was like. And she kept on doing so well that they said, hey, you shouldn't just be a administrative assistant. You should be a digital project manager. She's like, no, no. That's what I was doing before for. Get me out of that. Like, I'm not in. I don't want any promotions. Get me out of here. So she decided to go back to trade school and learn a skill that she could do with her hands. Get out of the email grind, get out of the, you know, client relation. And she went back to become an esthetician. So she's been doing that for about three years now. And she works Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, and she loves it.

[Joe]

That's incredible. It also strikes me that when we talk about debt in America, we're always talking about interest rates. What was the interest rate on your mortgage?

[Andy Hill]

We had a 3% mortgage at the time when we paid it off, but.

[Joe]

It truly didn't matter.

[Andy Hill]

No, it didn't.

[Joe]

It was about cash flow.

[Andy Hill]

This was about buying time. This was saying, hey, if our expenses are, let's see, it was about $1,300 in principal and interest. So I'm going to do horrible math. What's that times 12? Anyway, 20,000 some odd dollars that we didn't need to have as much in our income. And that was a big chunk. If we're considering saying, hey, we're going to change careers and we're going to work part time, not having to earn that extra 20k was pretty nice.

[Joe]

You are big. I know. On celebrating your wins. I've seen your social media, by the way. We'll link to it on our show [e-mail] you had a great one today or yesterday about shoveling your driveway.

[Andy Hill]

There you go.

[Joe]

Just how fun it is for you to shovel your driveway and reminding me why I'm not your neighbor anymore. And it's like I went out and ran this afternoon and it was like 60 something degrees.

[Andy Hill]

We're having this conversation in January, people. This is a, this is a different story. Let's talk again in August, Joe.

[Joe]

That's right. Good point. No, then I'm your neighbor.

[Andy Hill]

Exactly.

[Joe]

Then I'm coming back. Yeah, but you sometimes publicly celebrate your wins, but what is your system for making sure that you stop and you look at the road that you've traveled and, and high five your family members?

[Andy Hill]

Oh, that's great. Yeah. A big part of it is, is celebrating along the way because there are these little joy moments. But I mean, as far as tracking, personally, I'm, I'm a very goal oriented person. I get jacked up about. So I do a couple physical things that help me. I have a full focus planner that I use that helps me kind of track my day, that helps me keep everything in check with regard to what am I doing this day, what am I doing this week, what am I doing this month, and how does that relate to the goals that I have? I also have a daily habit tracker that I keep on my phone that helps me stay in tune with saying, hey, you're only going to work 20 to 25 hours this week. All right, let's track that and make sure you're actually staying true to that instead of just talking about it on a cool guys podcast. Also, like, I have health goals. I have goals for my relationship with my wife and my kids. I track all those. I don't tell my wife I track anything with regard to our relationship. She'll think it's super unromantic. Don't tell anybody about that. But it helps me to stay as a good husband and say, hey, these are the things that she likes to do, make sure you are following up on that, man. So I like to use these systems and I like to use these tools to help me stay accountable to the guy that I want to be. I say I'm going to be a family man. Well, you know, what are the things a family man would do? So I want to make sure that I'm actually doing those things.

[Joe]

The book is own your time. It's out this morning.

[Andy Hill]

Thank you. I love it. Yeah, I'm pumped, man.

[Joe]

It's just. It's just incredible, isn't it?

[Andy Hill]

It is. It feels good.

[Joe]

It feels just incredible. People can get it everywhere, Andy.

[Andy Hill]

Absolutely. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, your favorite bookstore. And if they don't have it at that bookstore, tell them to get it on your time by Andy Hill.

[Joe]

Or go to marriagekidsandmoney.com and I'm sure you'll have all the places as well. We'll link to it on our show notes page at Stacky Benjamin's. By the way, we. We only covered a little bit of owning your time, obviously, because it took andy Longer than 25 minutes to write this.

[Andy Hill]

Took a lot of time.

[Joe]

This book, there's so many aspects to owning your time that it is truly a blend of art and science. And Andy, watching you master it over the years has been fantastic. So thank you for mentoring our stackers on owning more of their time in 2026.

[Andy Hill]

Thank you so much, Joe, and thank you for being a friend along the way.

[Joe]

Hey, this is Lou Mongello from WDW.

[Doug]

Radio, and when I'm not at Walt Disney World or sharing my passion for Disney World or eating, I am stacking bedroom mittens. Hey there, stackers. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and on Monday, we shone a light on horror writer Edgar Allan Poe. You know, the guy who was famous but broke. Well, today we're keeping the literary theme going, but with a much happier ending for, you know, the bank account. Anyway, on today's date, way back in 1921, another famous crime writer published her first novel, the mysterious affair at Stiles. Later, she'd absolutely crush it with bestsellers like Murder on the Orient Express, Death on the Nile, and then there were none. Here's the kicker. Unlike Poe, who declared bankruptcy and died penniless, the author was insanely wealthy. By the mid-1950s, she was making over £3 million per year. That's around $48 million in today's money. Yeah, per year. Meanwhile, I'm over here excited when I find a 20 in my coat pocket. So who was this brilliant woman who created legends, legendary detective characters? Like I'm gonna say this right, Hercule Poirot. That's the right way to say it. Joe and Ms. Marple and actually got paid what she was worth. I'll be back with the answer right after I investigate who stole my ability to earn 48 million bucks a year. There's a mystery that needs solving.

[Joe]

American Skyjacker tells the story of DB Cooper, copycat Martin McNally, who hijacked a plane and jumped out with $500,000. But that's just the start of this epic true crime saga. Now, American Skyjacker is an action packed documentary available on all major platforms. Go to americanskyjacker.com to subscribe to the podcast and watch the film. And look out for a new bonus episode of the podcast coming soon. American Skyjacker. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.

[Andy Hill]

Get ready for the Rush with Max Crosby. It's time.

[Doug]

Don't miss the behind the scenes moments.

[Andy Hill]

Everyone'S talking about, regardless of what they say.

[Joe]

I'll take the fine. I don't care.

[Doug]

All pro defensive end Max Crosby takes you beyond the field with exclusive insights.

[Joe]

I could say this because I've played them.

[Andy Hill]

This is the Rush.

[Joe]

You guys already know what time it is.

[Doug]

It was fire.

[Joe]

And we'll be right back on the pod. We'll be talking about it next week.

[Andy Hill]

The Rush with Max Crosby.

[Joe]

Follow and listen on your favorite platform.

[Doug]

Welcome back, Stackers. I'm master detective and guy who just bought a magnifying glass on Amazon, Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. All right, so we were talking about an author who published her first novel on today's date back in 1921 and went on to make millions writing detective stories. But here's what makes her even more impressive. She didn't just make money, she kept it for her family. This woman paid attention to estate planning. While her estate was probably worth hundreds of millions of British pounds, officially it was only valued at slightly more than £106,000 when she died. Why? Because she was smart enough to create trusts and accounts outside her immediate estate, allowing her to pass on generational wealth without getting crushed by taxes. She was solving financial mysteries in real life, not just on the page. So who was this? And then there were none author who was as brilliant with money as she was with murder plots. None other than Agatha Christie. That's right. The queen of mystery novels was also the queen of not letting the taxman steal her family's inheritance. The lesson here, Stackers talent pays the bills, but smart estate planning keeps the money in the family. Agatha knew that, and her heirs are still thanking her for it.

[Joe]

Nice job, Dana. Dana. Nailed that one.

[Dana Otzbach]

I was a reader growing up, an avid reader.

[Joe]

I love Agatha Christie, and I actually like. I don't know which you like better, Hercule Perot or Miss Marple. I kind of like Miss Marple better.

[Dana Otzbach]

You know, I don't remember the distinctions. I read that. What I must have been 35 years ago.

[Doug]

She was a big reader. She just wasn't into the whole retention thing.

[Dana Otzbach]

Exactly.

[Joe]

I went back and read some of them just recently with all the, you know, movies that have come out over the years and some of the plays that I've seen in local theater here in Texarkana. And it's really. I don't know, they're so well written. Like, they hold up so, so, so well.

[Andy Hill]

Man.

[Joe]

A couple things. Number one, let's talk a little bit about Agatha Christie in estate planning. That this whole idea, Dana, of estate planning. People always think, I'm going to die later. I'm not going to die now, so I'll do the estate plan later. But I think Agatha Christie sounds like nailed it.

[Dana Otzbach]

Yeah, she nailed it. I would guess she had some really good advisors helping her through that, which was nice to see people who guided her the right way on what that complexity entailed. You know, when your asset size grows to as large as hers, did you want some generational wealth transfer strategies that may not be as applicable to the average person, but made a big difference for her and future generations?

[Joe]

Well, and that's actually the cool thing, is for our average stacker out there, for Agatha Christie, it was probably difficult to get all this done right. For her and her advisors. For the average stacker out there, Dana, this is something we put off, but it truly is not that difficult. And we need to get it done.

[Dana Otzbach]

No, and I think we put it off. Just we don't want to face mortality. It's not fun to do. But you feel so good when it's done. I mean, I have my trust, my wills, my powers of attorney, all of it. And I've had to update them several times, and I always dread it. But, man, when it's done, there's like.

[Joe]

This, ah, it blew me away how right you are. Because ahead of time, it was a pain in the ass. I was a financial planner when I first got this done. I had two young kids. I go into the office and I'm like, I tell everybody else to do it. So I need to do this too. Okay. We walked out of that office, Dana, even before it was done. We just kind of told John, our attorney, what we wanted done. I felt so kick ass. I can't tell you how amazing I felt. Oh, so good. The second thing that I had for you was Andy Hill doing things backwards.

[Andy Hill]

Right.

[Joe]

We always talk about the math of getting to retirement. And these low cost loans like a mortgage don't pay that off. Arbitrage.

[Andy Hill]

Right.

[Joe]

But Andy was able to live the lifestyle he wanted today because he didn't have so much overhead. How do you feel about that? This idea of paying off a low cost loan versus investing?

[Dana Otzbach]

You know, as financial planners, we like the mathematically correct solution. Right. But really it's what works for you. I frame things a lot as I call them red, yellow, or green. And sometimes there's red. Absolutely, don't do that. Green, you absolutely need to do that. And then there's so many things that fall in this yellow area. And paying off your mortgage, if the rate is, I mean if, if you had a 2 1/2% mortgage rate, I might say, like, you really shouldn't pay that off. But if it's anywhere in the normal range, you know, 4 to 8% is what we saw depending upon the origination period, that's a yellow decision. If that works for you, then do it. If that motivates you, if it makes you achieve your goals faster, if having that low overhead gives you the freedom to do other things, then it's do what works.

[Joe]

Yeah. If his goal is short term, I 100% agree that, you know what, he was able to save more later. Sure, he missed out on a bunch of compounding, but look at the freedom he's had in his life to just not have to have somebody telling him what to do every day because he didn't have so much. And by the way, it doesn't have to be as severe as paying off your mortgage. This is where I think just keeping a simple budget really fits because, you know, it's very easy to let lifestyle creep happen, especially with the way inflation's been lately. Dana.

[Dana Otzbach]

Yeah, it is. I had the opportunity in the last year to do two budgets with mid 20 year olds, some of our clients, children, and we just. It was just a simple Excel sheet. Okay, how often do you get paid? What's your take home? Okay, let's. Here's what's coming in every month now. Let's list your expenses. And for both of them, it was a complete eye opener. They had just not sat down and calculated total coming in and total coming out. Now, for one of them, she really needed to find a way to boost her income. I mean, she was making substantially less than her expenses, but she did it. Somehow it, you know, it all clicked. She went out. I told her her number one goal was finding a new job, and she did it for the other one. He had accumulated what he thought was a ton of credit card debt, just kind of frivolous spending. And he was aware of that. And so when we went through it, I showed him he could actually have it paid off in about four months. And suddenly this burden lifted. And, you know, it was like, oh, my gosh.

[Andy Hill]

Wow.

[Dana Otzbach]

I just. It was overwhelming to him. And so it was. It was truly a really cool experience and just a reminder of how much those basics matter.

[Joe]

It's so exciting. And I love the idea of her making more income because there were so many times back when I was a financial planner that it just was an income problem. But once people knew that, they stopped trying to solve for let's degrade our life more and more and more and started solving for how do I create these new income streams? And now all of a sudden, now they have a goal. And to your point, almost every single time they went and found the money, it was. I mean, it's like you asked the universe for it and. And it happened. I know it's not that easy, but.

[Dana Otzbach]

It'S just clarity sometimes, right? Really? Clarity on what is the problem you're solving.

[Joe]

Yeah, well, we've got a problem we haven't done. The tick tock minute. The tick tock minute, Dana, is the part of the show where we shine a light on a tick tock creator who's either doing something genius on social media or doing something that is air quotes genius on social media. Which one do you think we're going to hear today? Are we going to hear genius or air quotes genius?

[Dana Otzbach]

I'm hoping for air quotes genius.

[Joe]

You just want it to be funny. Well, this is from a TikTok channel called the ABCs of Parenting, where they give parenting tips. And it turns out, Dana and Doug, you can really give your children a leg up. Give the younger generation a leg up. If you choose the right name, it turns out. Let's listen.

[Kyle Busch]

Some people believe that it's okay to name a baby Dennis because you should be allowed to name your baby whatever you want.

[TikTok Narrator]

But others believe that you shouldn't name your baby Dennis because then your baby's name would be Dennis.

[Kyle Busch]

You might be asking yourself what's so bad about naming a baby Dennis? Well, first, does it really seem like a baby should be named Dennis? I'm Dennis. Babies aren't named Dennis. Men are named Dennis.

[TikTok Narrator]

Next, based on all previous dentists, we can predict with stunning accuracy what your child will be like as an adult. And much like people named Dennis, it ain't pretty.

[Kyle Busch]

There is an 89% chance that anyone named Dennis will prefer intercourse on an air Mattress.

[TikTok Narrator]

There's a 91% chance that he will mumble to people getting in his car. Sorry, you can just push all that crap out of the way.

[Kyle Busch]

There's a 93% chance that he'll brag about knowing a guy who used to to set up sound equipment for Stone Temple pilots.

[TikTok Narrator]

There's a 94% chance that every shirt he owns will have a mustard stain on it.

[Kyle Busch]

There's a 97% chance that if he watches Forrest Gump, he'll most likely identify with Jenny's evil boyfriend.

[TikTok Narrator]

And there is a 100% chance that he'll call his Dennis Penis. Now, we're a bit biased against naming your kid Dennis on account of it's a bad name. So I decided to hit the streets to ask people if they think it's okay to name a baby Dennis. Can you imagine a baby named Dennis?

[Andy Hill]

No.

[TikTok Narrator]

Do you think it's okay to name a baby Dennis?

[Andy Hill]

I mean, if that's what you want to do, then sure. But, I mean, maybe the baby might get pissed when they're older.

[TikTok Narrator]

Would you name your baby Dennis?

[Andy Hill]

No, I wouldn't name my child Dennis.

[Joe]

That's a white person name.

[TikTok Narrator]

If you were making a list of 500 names that you would maybe name your baby, would Dennis be on that list?

[Dana Otzbach]

No.

[TikTok Narrator]

Is Dennis a baby name or an old man name? You will not name your baby Dennis.

[Dana Otzbach]

We will not name our baby Dennis.

[TikTok Narrator]

Do you really think it's okay to name a baby Dennis?

[Andy Hill]

Absolutely. You My name.

[TikTok Narrator]

So that guy punched me.

[Joe]

I didn't know. I had no idea that the name was so important to your kid's success in life.

[Doug]

Yeah, Dennis cleans out your septic tank, for sure.

[Joe]

I actually have a good friend named Dennis. He's a heck of a guy. And by the way, I didn't make that stacker's name Dennis. ABC's Apparenting made that on TikTok and Julie Stacker. Julie sent it to us and said, who knew that Stacking Benjamin said, so much to do with your name. Luckily, Dana, you were named Dana, which I guess is a. Is a much Better name?

[Andy Hill]

I don't know.

[Dana Otzbach]

My mom told me in some language it means morning star. I don't know what language.

[Joe]

Your mom was drunk in mom language and mom speak. Yeah. Good stuff. All right, let's get on to our headline.

[Dana Otzbach]

Hello, darlings. And now it's time for your favorite.

[Andy Hill]

Part of the show, our stacking Benjamin's headlines.

[Joe]

Our headline today comes to us from YouTube. Well, a lot of people reported on this, but we're going to go right to YouTube. The sounds that you're going to hear are the sounds of popular NASCAR driver Kyle Busch and his spouse, Samantha. Let's listen in. Here we are in New York City. Samantha and I are at one of the major news stations here in New York City. And as many of you may have seen, we have a press release out that we are in litigation with Pacific Life in regards to IUL policies and insurance policies that are also retirement policies for planning for our future. And unfortunately, ours did not go well.

[Kyle Busch]

Yeah. As you'll hear when this broadcast comes out, it was a major scam. We tried to do what we thought was best for our family, for Brexton and Lennox. We were trying to be financially responsible for them and plan for our future. And little did we know that by investing money in this scam, it's all gone. And so the reason we came out here today is, as you guys know, who followed us for a while. Every time God puts a struggle in our path, we are going to try to use it for good. And so we're out here speaking out about what happened, because this just isn't happening to athletes and celebrities. This is happening to teachers, police officers, veterans. This is happening to widows. These are people who are 70 years old. They have nothing else to fall back on. These are people who are, you know, they've worked hard. They've made a small business. They are ready to retire, and they buy into these scams, and they lose absolutely everything. And so, you know, Kyle and I will use this platform to try to do all the good that we can. And so we're gonna keep fighting Pacific Life, and we're gonna show the world that this was a huge and utter scam.

[Joe]

Wow. So not only did they go public with this immediately, as they mentioned, there's a lawsuit in the works between them and Pacific Life. It's easy to call this a scam, Dana, but I think it's even better for our stackers to kind of get behind actually the inner workings of the product so we can see where the friction is here and where this might have led the Bush family astray and could lead some of our stackers astray. So index universal life. We need to start there because this is a complicated product. Do you want to give it a shot and maybe try to explain to people what, what the heck this thing is?

[Dana Otzbach]

Yeah, I mean, at the heart of every life insurance product is life insurance. So if you think about basic term insurance, well, every year that you're older, the cost of insurance goes up. You're unfortunately a little year, one year closer to the end. And so when you look at that have any type of cash value attached to them, you know, a savings account attached to them. We call it permanent life. They come in various forms. Variable life, universal life, whole life, and then indexed universal life. Well, inside that product, you still have a rising cost of insurance that's occurring. And then there's a cash value component. So you're paying more than the cost of insurance initially, and the excess is building up in this cash value. And there's certain rules that determine how that cash value grows. The problem can be with a lot of these permanent life products, people don't know how customizable they are under the hood. Meaning they can be designed to maximize commissions, they can be designed to maximize the death benefit, they can be designed to maximize the cash value. So the product itself is not a scam. Right. It has its appropriate uses where it's a solid choice, but the way it can be designed and sold can end up very scam. Like if someone, you know, presents it as doing a certain, certain thing, but then under the hood designs it differently.

[Joe]

Yeah, there's a piece I want to go to from Yahoo. Finance. And by the way, stackers. We'll, we'll link to all these on our show notes [e-mail] this piece is written by Monique Dano. Monique writes, Kyle Bush's $8 million loss is a warning for those with life insurance. Could your tax free retirement plan be a scam? Here's how they found out about it from this piece. They were told that if they put $10.4 million into this life insurance policy, they anticipated that after they made five payments equaling 10.4 million, they'd be able to take out $800,000 a year from age 52 until the time that that Bush died. So this looked like it was designed to be a retirement plan with that cash inside Dana as much as a life insurance policy. The reason why they called it a scam was because after they made that fifth payment, they got A bill for a sixth payment. And they're like, what the hell? This is supposedly done. We were told that we're done. And then they went to somebody else who told them, oh, no, no, you are not done. You are not, not done. Which is frustrating. I can see how the people are incredibly frustrated by that.

[Andy Hill]

Yeah.

[Dana Otzbach]

And there's these illustrations that can be run with these types of policies. These illustrations can be run on a, you know, as if you only make five payments or seven payments. And, and they can be run with very rosy outlook, as if the investments do a certain thing.

[Joe]

But what you say, when you say running an illustration, this isn't like going on Morningstar and looking at what is this product done? No, this is the agent going into a piece of software and predicting what it's going to do in the future. And this is the part where they could be. And I know Steve's going to beep this out, so I'm just going to say it. Where the agent can be full of.

[Dana Otzbach]

Yeah, that illustration can be run. And what's actually legally required is also a parallel illustration that shows worst case or minimum guaranteed outcomes. But I might have an illustration that has 20 pages in part, you know, three or four of those pages, my minimum guaranteed outcomes. And the other is outcomes assuming a certain set of markets conditions. And I only show the client the one set or I focus on that and they don't really know that really only that's guaranteed. The only thing guaranteed is, is on that other set of numbers. I've seen this over and over. I've, I've seen this exact situation happen to people on a smaller scale, but it's still devastating.

[Joe]

There are two things Dana said there stackers that I want to back up and make sure that you got. Number one was these permanent life insurance policies are incredibly complicated. So number one, there's a lot to understand. Make sure that you understand what you're getting into. But then number two is when they do an illustration, which they will do. And often it used to be you had to sign these. I don't know, people still have to sign that. They got them, but the agent shows you two things, their prediction. But then they have to show you a worst case scenario as well. And often they will skip over that worst case scenario. So if you're buying permanent life insurance, you need to ask, what is the worst case scenario? Show me this. If it go, if everything goes badly, what is this going to look like? I think that's a huge thing for people to ask if they're going to get into a policy like this. Yeah.

[Dana Otzbach]

And truthfully, with any insurance product, what you are buying is the guarantees. So you're buying it for that guaranteed illustration set of assumptions. And if that works and fits your needs, fantastic. If you get anything above that, well, that's great. But you should never be buying any kind of insurance product for what it might do under a certain set of optimal market conditions. That's just not what you buy them for in the first place.

[Joe]

Well, and this is what's really frustrating to me is this particular product, Dana, in general, I'm just going to levy this. You don't have to go down this road with me if you don't want to. But I just think that Indexed Universal life, if you have any knowledge about how just index funds work, what these policies offer is a guarantee that you won't lose money, but you still get to participate in the stock market. The way the agent will talk about it a lot of the time is, hey, here's something cool. When the stock market goes up, you're going to get some of that. It's great. When the stock market goes down, you don't lose any money. The problem with these products, Dana, is when they index these things, that guarantee means that you get capped so low when the market goes up that you were better off just putting the money in the index yourself.

[Dana Otzbach]

Yes. And they can change the cap rates, what's called a cap rate. So, you know, as an example, let's say if the S and p goes up 12%, you know, you may be eligible to participate in the first 10% of that. Well, they might change that. So the next year, you know, you may only be eligible to participate in the first 5% increase. And so usually you get an annual letter letting you know if those terms have changed. So you may buy it under one set of conditions, but those could change over time.

[Joe]

Kind of reminds me of timeshares where you get in, you have no idea what the maintenance fee is going to be in year five or year eight. They can make that maintenance fee whatever they want it to be.

[Dana Otzbach]

Yeah.

[Joe]

In this Yahoo piece that I was looking at, they talked about some of these downsides. Potential downside with a policy like this is high fees. The cost of insurance charges can increase wage, age and can erode cash value. I don't think this is as much of a scam as I've seen people write about it being a scam because in a permanent life insurance policy, there is a one to one ratio between people that keep the Policy and death benefits being paid out, which means the insurance company's cost is going to be much higher. On a permanent life insurance policy, they have to pay a death benefit. They will pay a death benefit. It is guaranteed that they will as long as you keep the policy. So it's going to be more costly. With the term insurance policy, they rarely pay a death benefit because you've priced out of it well before you die. It becomes so cost prohibitive, Dana, that for that reason alone, permanent life insurance is going to be a lot more expensive than a term policy.

[Doug]

Joe, you said something a second ago that made me think, what do you think Bush's likelihood is of getting anything out of this lawsuit? Because my guess is there. There was a pretty thick documentation contract that they signed that that's essentially what they're fighting. Because after that, it just becomes a their word against the salesman's word over what he said verbally. And probably not much of that is going to get admissible and be admissible in court. This is really just an argument over what contract they signed.

[Joe]

I don't know. Dana, what do you think?

[Dana Otzbach]

I think there's a pretty high likelihood they get some type of private settlement and we won't know the amount. I would guess Pac Life really doesn't want that kind of bad press. And we probably won't know. But most of the time, if you file a complaint and there's some validity to it, you're going to get some type of settlement, but the full amount back.

[Joe]

No.

[Doug]

Yeah, and you know what? That's probably fine because look, they named their kid Braxton. They don't deserve to get the whole amount back. We just got done talking about Dennis's and how Dennis is going to, like, predetermine your kids future. Braxton's Ho.

[Joe]

Braxton's another one.

[Doug]

Got it. Yeah, with an X in his name. That kid is toast.

[Joe]

Stackers, level your hate mail to [e-mail]. i didn't say that.

[Dana Otzbach]

Especially those who have children named Braxton.

[Joe]

Yeah, exactly.

[Doug]

You named your daughter Ashley and it's spelled like E, I, G, H or something. No, you don't get to complain. You dug your own hole.

[Joe]

Doug is digging us a hole. Yeah. You know, when I worked for a big firm in finance, their first thought, Dana, was the same. To. To try to settle, like, as much as possible. To try to settle. So I could definitely see a settlement here. But I think Doug has a valid point, though, that you got to know ahead of time before you sign this stuff. And I know what Pacific Life is going to say. Pacific Life is going to say, kyle Busch is not a dumb guy. Like, Kyle Busch is a smart enough guy to know what he's signing. The fact that he's smart enough to drive a complex piece of machinery at a high rate of speed and understand all the physics involved with that. Like, are you kidding me?

[Doug]

He can only turn left, Joe. I mean, how.

[Joe]

This is what the Pacific Life lawyers are going to say. They're going to talk about how smart he is and how he knew going into it what the risks were. Like. He would have known that. All right. Some other things that they list. And Dana, you brought up this one earlier. Caps and participation rates can be a problem. If the market soars, you're only going to get whatever that cap is. And if the policy says it can change, it might change. Also, dependence on premium funding for your policy to perform. There's this thing in these policies we're not going to get into called a modified endowment contract. You really want to ride that line. You want to put as much money in this as you possibly can. If you don't, the policy can die quicker than you think. So if you stop or you reduce paying premiums, Dana, that cost of insurance can just kill you in the last one. Misleading illustrations. Exactly what you said earlier. And I've seen this one a hundred times, and I think you. You probably have, too. Well, you told me as we were prepping for today's show that sadly, you've seen this in action time after time again.

[Dana Otzbach]

Yeah, I saw a client, they had left us probably about 2007, 2008, to put all their money in this type of structure. And then five or six years later, the money was gone. Exact situation. They came back, they had about $50,000 left in an IRA. We still help them today because we were like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe this happened to you. It's just awful. But again, they were told something. You fund this whole life policy, it'll take care of your retirement forever. Whatever they were told verbally, clearly was not true. And the product was not capable of that.

[Joe]

That just puts a pit in your stomach. Let's pivot here. Just buying a life insurance policy in general, where do you start with clients when you know that they have a life insurance need? Where do you begin?

[Dana Otzbach]

You know, most of our clients don't have a life insurance need because they're on the tail end. But I think about, you know, 1995, when I started in this business, my dad had always told me I was married at the time to, you know, my husband and I get a financial planner. We interviewed two people. One told us to put all our discretionary income into a whole life policy. You know, we're just starting out. The other one told us to build up an emergency fund fund the 401k to get the company match and buy term insurance, which at our age with no children, you know, would cover a gap if one or the other of us died and we lost the other spouse's income just starting out. It was the perfect advice. It was absolutely phenomenal. Contrast that with, I think it was five or six years ago, one of my good friends emailed me, you know, her husband was being pitched a whole life policy, I believe, from Northwestern Mutual. Very reputable company. And so I went through like the criteria where I actually do think that product is appropriate. One, you have a high income and you expect it to continue. You've already maxed out all your tax deferred options and you have a substantial amount of brokerage account savings. You know, you've got money banked up. You have a need for life insurance and you expect that need will continue. And they met all of those criteria where it was very likely their estate would be over the estate tax exemption limit, even with the increases. That's still the case. And they had kids, so all of the criteria they met. And so was one of the situations where I actually responded and said, you know, this is probably a good fit for you. It's another avenue to diversify. The illustrations were done well, but that's a rare case that I see where people actually meet all of the criteria.

[Joe]

I was thinking that during my times doing what you do, I would see a permanent life insurance case twice a year maybe.

[Dana Otzbach]

Yep.

[Joe]

And the vast majority of people, it was almost always term insurance. Stackers. We dive into the ABCs of how to pick life insurance on our show on Monday when we took listener questions. So go back to the Monday episode. The very first question that we took was around picking life insurance. So listen, the beginning of Monday's episode and you'll also get kind of a run through of how we like picking insurance. And it's not using a rule of thumb, so good stuff there. We'll link to all of this on our show notes [e-mail] I hate seeing people sue. I don't think the life insurance policy is a scam myself, Dana. I do think they might have been scammed though. They might have been scammed.

[Dana Otzbach]

Absolutely. You know, products themselves are just tools. I mean, do we call a screwdriver a scam when what we really needed was a hammer? You know, if we don't, it's how that product is presented and whether it actually fits the needs and financial circumstances of the client.

[Joe]

Well, let's wander out on the back porch before we say goodbye, Doug. We got some fun stuff going on in Stacker land. I know we've got some bad meetings going on around.

[Doug]

Well, first, Joe, thoughts and prayers to Braxton Bush and for his future. But. Thoughts and prayers. Thoughts and prayers.

[Joe]

Dig in the hole.

[Doug]

But yeah, we do want to talk about the bad meetings coming up. That's Benjamin's After Dark. For those of you in the Pacific Northwest, or to say it correctly, specific Northwest, make sure that you're making your way into Seattle or that in Seattle environs. On Monday the 26th from 5 to 7 at University Place Library, that's on Marketplace west in University Place, Washington, there will be a Benjamin's After Dark meeting talking about how to start the new year. Right. Look, Chris, who runs the bad meetings, I just, just, I gave him this piece of advice. But for all of the other groups that are starting to get ramped up around the country, if you choose to call your meetings Benjamin's After Dark, just if you got to think about marketing, how do we get as many people as possible to these meetings? I would strongly encourage you to put an apostrophe on Benjamin's. Because if it's Benjamin's After Dark, it sounds a little saucy, sounds a little spicy. Like this could be like, you know, an adult movie from Cinemax from the 90s.

[Joe]

Nope.

[Doug]

Benjamin's After Dark. No apostrophe. You're just working third shift at Taco Bell. But Benjamin's with an apostrophe. That's the good stuff. You're going to be packed at your meeting. So Tucson and everybody else who are putting groups together use that apostrophe. But everybody in the Pacific Northwest, specific northwest. Monday, January 26, 5 to 7.

[Joe]

You got a rise out of people in Tucson, by the way. How often do you make it down to Tucson, Dana?

[Doug]

Times a year. A couple times a year. I'm down there.

[Joe]

Well, I asked Dana, but Doug, I'm glad you go there.

[Doug]

I thought this was my segment, but sure, Dana, Feel free is not that far, really.

[Dana Otzbach]

I would say probably once every other year. Not that often.

[Joe]

Just a beautiful town, though.

[Dana Otzbach]

It is.

[Joe]

Doug likes some breakfast burritos from a specific place in Tucson. So Doug has been like, we need a Benjamin's After Dark group in Tucson. And by the way, they responded. Stackers responded. And it's in the works, Doug. It's in the works.

[Doug]

Can't wait. I'll go. I get to write that trip off on my expense report also.

[Joe]

I know. Coming up next week, we'll share southern Minnesota with their first kickoff meeting in Boston. Kicking off their meeting. So, Dana, we're spreading like a virus.

[Dana Otzbach]

This is exciting. It sounds really cool.

[Joe]

Benjamin's After Dark meetings. I love that name too.

[Dana Otzbach]

I mean, not the virus part, but the rest.

[Joe]

No, not that exactly.

[Doug]

Everybody shows up in masks now to the meetings if.

[Joe]

Well, do we have more, Doug?

[Doug]

Well, no more meetings, but there's some great stuff that people responded to Gertrude with regarding show and tell time.

[Joe]

Oh, sweet. What are our stackers up to?

[Doug]

Yes, about every week or so, Gertrude asks folks to just be proud about what they may have accomplished in the last week. And we got some good, good responses this past week. Alina says that she and her 11 year old son made a podcast that's Harry Potter related and even better, it's a game somehow I haven't had a chance to listen to it, but she put links out there in the. In the basement. So if you're a Harry Potter fan, go check out their new podcast.

[Joe]

Let's do what's it called. Let's give her a shout out. What's it called?

[Doug]

Well, it's HTTPs://open.Spotify.com show/21APX D L9M O G Q7G.

[Joe]

Okay, what's the name? Just click the link, Doug, and find out what the name is. Can you click the link and find out what the name of the show is?

[Doug]

Oh my God. You're asking me to do a lot. That's not in my contract. It's called the 20 Questions Spellbook.

[Joe]

There it is.

[Doug]

20 Questions Spell Book. So everybody go check that out.

[Joe]

You a Harry Potter fan, Dana?

[Dana Otzbach]

I love Harry Potter. I want a magic wand. Oh, wouldn't that be awesome?

[Joe]

You could just cure some financial ills.

[Dana Otzbach]

I thought about getting a fake one. You know, when someone walks in, I.

[Joe]

Just ting, yes, I do remember one relationship with a person when I was a financial planner and he told me out loud, he said, my last financial planner said to me as I was walking out the door, when you find your magic wand, let me know. And then Dana, a year later, when they were walking out my door, I said, when you find your magic wand, good luck. Just someone who did not want to hear the truth.

[Dana Otzbach]

They don't want reality. They think we're magic and we know how to time the markets and do everything perfectly, yet we're not on the beach with our margarita. We're, you know.

[Joe]

Right. Not like OG who is right now, by the way, on a beach margarita.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Joe]

As we record this, Doug, it's like.

[Doug]

The people who fire their personal trainer because they didn't lose 40 pounds, but as soon as they leave the personal trainer, they go, go buy Twinkies next door at the. At the grocery store.

[Joe]

Because that solves the problem.

[Doug]

Yeah, right. We also have Julianne, who must have picked up on the Harry Potter theme because she made her own bag to go to Universal this summer. And the bag is Hufflepuff. She said, I'm going to Universal this summer, and she made a bag to represent her house. I'm like, that's kind of weird. Like, but it turns out it's a Hufflepuff bag. Her house.

[Joe]

She's apparently a Hufflepuff Butterhouse.

[Doug]

Yes.

[Joe]

A stacker and a Hufflepuff together. I don't know what the mixing of that is, but that could get scary.

[Doug]

I'm sure Frank also decided to prop out his own podcast. Episode 478, risk parody radio, episode 478, index fund choices, distribution methods, financial advisor, landscape. I mean, sounds like a rip roaring time to me. And then finally, Frank, who's everywhere online.

[Joe]

Yeah, we love Uncle Frank.

[Doug]

Finally, this weirdo named Nikki said that she supported her best brother ever in his attempt to run the Dopey.

[Joe]

Oh, my God. I am still in Orlando as we record this. And thanks to everybody, thanks to all the love. Tina wrote something too. And just to put a pin on the end of this, Dana, it was my last run ever. I've been a competitive runner for 47 years. And my back, I had X rays done and just the beating my back is taken. Not gonna do it. Then I had a foot problem that we won't get into, but this is going to be my last race. And for my last race, I wanted to do the Dopey, which I don't know if you're familiar with the Dopey at Disney, but you were on the 5k on Thursday, the 10k on Friday. You run the half marathon on Saturday and the marathon on Sunday. And it was so fun preparing for this. And we had just. The last six months of getting ready were great. Cheryl came down, my spouse, my daughter Autumn came down, my sister Nikki came and they were all Going to pace me with these races. And the 5k was easy. The 10k was easy. Half marathon started off great. And then partway through it, I got frustrated with some slow runners in front of me, ran in the grass, stepped in a hole, and I sprained my ankle. You could hear it pop. It was gross. But I still hobbled for a few more miles. And then I rolled it again because it was already soft. And Cheryl was right behind me. She's like, it looks so gross. Just your was just gone. And I rolled over in the grass. But I still finished it. I still ran the rest of it. So I finished the half marathon because.

[Dana Otzbach]

That is very practical thing to do.

[Joe]

It was. It was so dumb. It was so dumb. But I was not gonna not finish. And I was hoping that if I just iced it and raised it back at the Airbnb that I'd be able to run the marathon. So then I got to the marathon and yeah, ran about 100 yards of the marathon before I. Before I quit. This was a funny story, though. So I run 100 yards and I pull over and there's like this cop standing next to me and he doesn't say anything to me. And I wait for the wave to go by and I cross the course and I just walk back through the Epcot parking lot toward my car, which is all the way on the other side, and I limp to my car. I get to my car, Cheryl is sleeping in the car because it's 4:30 in the morning. I start taking my number off, and all of a sudden this official dude in a vest and with a radio comes and he goes, good morning, sir. What are your intentions? I'm like, what are my intentions? What do you. What are you talking. What do you mean? We have this fine young lady in the car and we were going to make love in the Epcot parking lot. Like, what? What are you talking about? What are my intentions? If you hadn't shown up and wrecked everything and these looks at me again. He goes. He goes, what are you doing right now? And all of a sudden I realized what he was asking me. And I go, oh, I stepped in a hole yesterday and I sprained my ankle and I am done. I am not doing this anymore. He goes, okay, so you are officially dropping out. And he takes my number and he said, I'm not accusing you of cheating. He goes, but you can't believe how many people cheat at these races. And I'm like, why would you. Why would you cheat? Like, why? Bragging to all your friends hey, guess what? I did this thing that I. I didn't really like.

[Doug]

Who.

[Joe]

Who's impressed by that? So, wow. What are your intentions?

[Dana Otzbach]

Wow. See, that's crazy.

[Joe]

Go cheat at a marathon.

[Dana Otzbach]

So people just, like, wait at the finish line and then say they did it or post and apparently they don't run at all.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Joe]

And I'm only telling that story now because I was gonna cheat, but I got caught. No, I'm kidding.

[Dana Otzbach]

Why is this what social media has done to us, where it's all about what we show on social media, not about. About what we actually did?

[Joe]

I gotta tell you what's horrible was my sister who posted that nice piece. So. And thank you to everybody who wrote me and said, good luck with your last race. And it was a great time. We had a fantastic time. And by the way, you know, these things happen for a reason. And I saw a quote by Maya Angelou later in the day that said, there's lots of defeats in life, but we. We must never be defeated. Which is great. I'm going to move on. I'm going to have fun on my bicycle. I'm going to have fun doing other stuff. I just ain't running any more. Kids, like, it's those. Those days are over. So thanks to everybody for that stuff. But anyway, enough about me. Let's get this off me. Dana, thank you so much for hanging out with us today.

[Dana Otzbach]

I love it. Always so much fun.

[Joe]

Huge upgrade, Doug from OG yeah, monster upgrade from OG can we have him extend his trip to the Caribbean? Dana, what are you doing next week? You want to take over?

[Dana Otzbach]

You know, just send me the right time and date and then we'll make sure it works.

[Joe]

We will. I only sent the wrong time. Twice, Doug. Only twice.

[Doug]

Small improvements.

[Joe]

If people want more from you and they want to inquire more about your awesome team at Sensible Money, how do they get a hold of you?

[Dana Otzbach]

SensibleMoney.com is the best place you can read more about our service offering. And in the top right, you'll find a schedule, a consult button. You fill out a secure questionnaire form. So that's a common question. It doesn't go out there on the Internet. It comes encrypted to us. Us. And then we'll reach out to schedule a complimentary conversation.

[Joe]

Awesome. We'll also link to it in our show notes page along with your new.

[Dana Otzbach]

Badass YouTube channel, making retirement make sense. We're really excited about the educational content we're going to start putting out. I'm going to be doing a basic series on things like what is a stock? What is a bond, what is a portfolio? I think sometimes we use these terms and don't understand that some people don't even really know what these things mean.

[Joe]

We get lost in jargon so easily here.

[Dana Otzbach]

We do.

[Joe]

Well, thanks a ton for hanging out with us. It's so fun as always, but I'm surprised you're not walking today. Usually people don't know this, but Dana usually walks the whole time.

[Dana Otzbach]

I have a two hour pickleball league game tonight, so I didn't want to walk today. I need to conserve my energy for later.

[Joe]

Doug, you got it from here man. What should be our takeaways from today's show?

[Doug]

Well Joe, first, take some advice from Andy Hill. Even if you work for the man, take control of your time so you can focus on what's important to you instead of only focusing on what's important to your employer. Second, take a note from Dana and Joe Buying life insurance Begin with the end in mind. Where have I heard that before? Start with your goals and work backwards and it's much more likely you won't get caught up in a potential scam. But the big lesson don't wear one of those Sherlock Holmes hats and a trench coat to the community pool during an investigation. For some reason, they're incredibly uncomfortable with well dressed middle aged guys with binoculars at the pool. I don't know why. Huge thanks to Dana Anspock for guest co hosting today. You'll find Dana's mission calendar and links to her magic [e-mail] and don't forget to check out her new YouTube channel, Making Retirement Make Sense. And thanks to our friend Andy Hill for joining us today. Be sure to check out his book own youn Time 10 Financial Steps to Put yout Family first and Escape the Corporate Grind Wherever the Finest financial books are sold. Don't have one of those places in your town. Fine, we'll include a link on stackingbenjamins.com this show is the property of SP Podcast LLC, Copyright 2026 and is created by Josal Sehai. You'll find out about our awesome [e-mail] along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello. And oh yeah, before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don't take advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And we'll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show.