How to Prioritize Your Money: Listener Q&A (SB1792)

Summary

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The Stacking Benjamins Show

Episode: How to Prioritize Your Money: Listener Q&A (SB1792)

Date: January 19, 2026
Host: Joe Saul-Sehy
Guests: CFP Anna Allum, Neighbor Doug (co-host & trivia), various listener call-ins

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Episode Overview

In this lively Listener Q&A episode, Joe, Neighbor Doug, and Certified Financial Planner Anna Allum offer direct, actionable answers to listener questions about life insurance, college savings, 401(k) auto-enrollment, gifting to grandkids, and building emergency funds with variable income. True to the show’s reputation for making finance approachable, the discussion is packed with practical tips, a lot of laughter, and a few classic Stacking Benjamins tangents.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. How to Reassess and Update Your Life Insurance

Listener: Curtis
[09:23 – 20:33]

• Curtis’s Situation:
  Purchased 20-year term life insurance five years ago (then: coverage was 10-12x income; now, with income growth, coverage is 4-5x income).
• Question: Best way to increase coverage with minimal gaps — add to existing policy or start fresh, and when to cancel the old policy?
• Discussion:
  • Two Approaches to Determine How Much Insurance You Need:
    • Rule of Thumb ("Human Life Value"): 10-12x income.
    • Needs-Based Calculation: Assess actual expenses; plan for scenarios where surviving spouses might not work, especially with kids.
      • Anna: “That’s more of the route that we go down when we’re making these calculations...you really just don’t know how the surviving spouse is going to react when something like that happens.” [11:10]
  • Shop Around: Insurance rates and underwriting criteria vary between companies and year-to-year.
    • Anna: “It’s definitely important to shop around…each insurance company is going to look at each age bracket as a different risk level.” [16:09]
  • When to Cancel the Old Policy: Never cancel until the new policy is fully in place and approved.
    • Joe: “I’ve seen people f this up… they cancel the old one and then they don’t get approved for the new one…” [16:59]
  • Laddering: Layering new policies on top of existing ones as coverage needs change.
    • Anna: “You can stack those two policies together…typically this is okay because hopefully you’re closer to financial independence.” [17:37]
  • Other Tips: Permanent policyholders can often lower coverage (and cost) without cancelling.

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2. Gifting to Grandkids: Best Strategies for Long-Term Flexibility

Listener: Dee
[20:33 – 28:11]

• Dee’s Situation:
  Wants to gift $2,000 per grandchild under age 10, wants flexibility (not just for education), but doesn’t want kids to get lump sums at age 18.
• Discussion:
  • 529 Plan: Good for education, but restrictive (not suitable given Dee’s flexibility goal).
  • UGMA/UTMA Custodial Accounts: Provide flexibility, but assets become the child’s at 18 and count against college aid.
    • Joe: “If the kid finds out…it’s theirs. Grandparent’s out of the picture.” [23:48]
  • Brokerage Account in Grandparent’s Name: Most flexibility and control. Dee can designate the beneficiary and decide when/how grandkids receive funds.
    • Anna: “Best option is probably just a brokerage account available for the kids…keep your name on it as the owner.” [24:02]
    • If many grandkids, can use a single account and split assets later; watch out for compounding and fairness.
  • Roth IRAs: Viable only if children have earned income (usually not the case under age 10).

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3. 401(k) Auto-Enrollment "Opt-Out" Rules — and the Market Impact

Listener: Chris
[28:49 – 37:41]

• Chris’s Situation:
  Wonders whether automatic 401(k) enrollment and widespread passive investing will “lock up” the stock market or lower volatility.
• Discussion:
  • Education's Role: More people have basic investing know-how now thanks to podcasts, social, and improved education.
    • Anna: “Will this change volatility at all?...Not really…we’re still seeing a lot of volatility.” [30:13]
  • Indexing/Market Impact?
    • Theoretical risk of index investing “distorting” market prices is very far off (“so, so, so far” — Joe [32:31]).
    • Participation vs. Behavior: More people investing doesn’t mean fewer mistakes — 401(k) loans are up as more people auto-enroll.
    • Joe: “People’s ability to do dumb things with their money…is still there, Anna.” [33:02]
  • Good News:
    • Opt-out increases the national savings rate (compared with debt-driven economies like the US vs. Singapore).
    • Easy “floor” for savings, but individuals must still be proactive to maximize benefits and track old accounts.

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4. Optimizing Retirement Savings for College Financial Aid

Listener: John
[44:56 – 56:51]

• John’s Situation:
  Maxes Roth IRAs, contributes to Roth 401(k), has multiple kids entering college, wants to know if pre-tax 401(k) contributions can improve FAFSA aid eligibility.
• Key FAFSA and Aid Insights:
  • How FAFSA Flows: Everything starts at the federal level and “flows downhill” to the state, school, and then scholarship organizations.
  • Always fill out FAFSA every year (even if you didn’t get aid initially — eligibility changes).
    • Joe: “Even as early as five, six years ago, [FAFSA] was much more difficult than it is now…It is super easy and you should fill it out every single year.” [46:06]
  • Pre-Tax vs. Roth: Pre-tax 401(k) contributions can lower AGI (potentially improving FAFSA’s Student Aid Index), but don’t only focus on one area.
  • Aid Is Competitive and Dynamic:
    • Aid types and eligibility can change year to year (sophomore/junior aid different from freshman aid; aid is “first come, first served”).
    • “They [the government] look at the year before last year.” – Joe [52:42]
  • Big Picture:
    • Don’t undermine your long-term retirement strategy for a short-term aid boost.
    • Diversify tax buckets (Roth, pre-tax, and brokerage).
    • New FAFSA rules don’t benefit families with multiple kids in college as much as previous formulas.
    • Anna: “You don’t want to be messing with something for a short-term result that’s going to mess up your long-term plan.” [53:11]

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5. Growing an Emergency Fund with Variable Income

Listener: Alex
[57:06 – 62:23]

• Alex’s Situation:
  Just married, building an emergency fund; wife’s photography business income is seasonal, making budgeting a challenge. Debates reducing 401(k) or HSA contributions to free up cash, wants to avoid debt when buying a car.
• Discussion:
  • Great Start: HSA balance is solid; 401(k) contributions and match utilized.
  • Prioritization:
    • First, pause/reduce HSA contributions (no match lost).
    • Next, if needed, reduce 401(k) to employer match only.
    • In dire need, pause 401(k) entirely — but only briefly.
    • Anna: “By not contributing to your HSA, you’re not leaving money on the employer contribution like you would with a 401(k).” [59:03]
  • Car Fund is Not an Emergency Fund: Separate savings needed.
  • Buffer Account Strategy: For variable income, pay yourself a steady “salary” from a buffer account to even out highs and lows.
    • Working Example: “If you know she’s going to make X dollars per year…but it all happens in six months…divide by 12 and pay yourself out. That way you’re getting a little more consistency.” [61:03]

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Notable Quotes and Moments

• On Life Insurance:
  • “I truly do not like rules of thumb…every situation is so much different and frankly, it’s not that hard to figure out the right amount of life insurance.” — Joe [10:36]
  • “We assume that if you were to pass away, your spouse could basically stop working indefinitely…” — Anna [11:10]
  • "You should definitely shop around." — Anna [16:09]
• On Financial Aid:
  • “The FAFSA is now the world’s easiest thing to fill out…it is super easy and you should fill it out every single year.” — Joe [46:06]
• On 401(k) Auto-Enrollment:
  • “People’s ability to do dumb things with their money…they just can’t keep their hands on the cookie jar.” — Joe [33:02]
  • “Will this change volatility at all?...Not really. Because…we’re still seeing a lot of volatility.” — Anna [30:13]
• On Variable Income:
  • “You don’t need your own paycheck on that same [business] roller coaster.” — Joe [61:19]

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Segment Timestamps

| Segment | Time | |--------------------------------------|:-------------:| | Life insurance review & replacement | 09:23 - 20:33 | | Gifting to grandchildren | 20:33 - 28:11 | | 401(k) auto-enrollment & market Q | 28:49 - 37:41 | | FAFSA/aid & retirement funding Q | 44:56 - 56:51 | | Emergency fund & variable income Q | 57:06 - 62:23 | | Community notes/feedback | 63:37 - 66:09 |

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Memorable Moments

• Back-and-Forth Jokes: “Is it Caribbean or Caribbean? Does it matter? You’re not. It doesn’t matter.” [04:33]
• Family Counting Challenge: Joe's family had so many cousins, “I don’t even know how many cousins I have.” [26:26]
• Laugh at What You Can’t Control: “Welcome to the show that helps you control the controllable and laugh at what you can’t.” [04:59]

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Actionable Takeaways

• Life insurance: Calculate needs based on expenses and survivorship, not just static multiples of income; never cancel old coverage until new is in place.
• Kids’ gifts: Direct brokerage accounts in your name for maximum long-term control; 529s & UGMA/UTMA useful but have trade-offs.
• 401(k) opt-out: Don’t overthink market impact — focus on leveraging auto-enrollment for yourself and family.
• FAFSA: Fill it out yearly; prioritize a long-term balanced tax strategy over chasing short-term aid; know that aid eligibility is highly competitive and varies.
• Variable income: Steady the bumps with a buffer account and set salary, prioritize short-term savings (incl. emergency fund) over long-term investments for security.

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Final Thoughts

This episode reinforces Stacking Benjamins’ trademark blend of smart, practical advice and relatable, sometimes irreverent, banter. Whether you’re updating life insurance, gifting to family, or managing lumpy cash flow, the key message is to take a holistic, flexible approach while having some fun along the way.

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For more financial tips, guides, and community support, visit: StackingBenjamins.com

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Hey Stackers. You've heard us talk about our brand new product the Vault and I'm super excited that we are going to be doing some run throughs this week. So today, and this is Monday, January 19th, we are going to at 6pm Eastern time, going to be live on YouTube diving into exactly how the Swiss army knife that is the bedrock, the foundation of your financial life, how it works, all the cool things that it does, from protecting your credit to protecting your identity, to helping you run what if scores and getting rid of your subscriptions. So many tools all in one spot together. And we're going to walk through it now if you can't make it tonight, we're also going to be doing it on Wednesday, Wednesday at 4pm Eastern and again at 8pm Eastern. So that's 5 o' clock Pacific if you want to just take a look at it. Head to stacking benjamin.com vault and you will see not only the events that are coming up this week where we walk through it, but also you can take a look at it yourself and see why people are so excited about our newest stacking Benjamin's product, the Vault.

[C]

So we're walking through it. We're walking through the vault.

[B]

Walking.

[C]

There's like a back door. We can go in like one door and walk out the back of got.

[B]

To walk back out the same way we came in.

[C]

Well, that's good because back doors generally aren't a great idea. In a vault.

[B]

In a vault. Yeah. Especially this one.

[C]

So we're walking in and we're turning right back around again.

[B]

Lock solid. Absolutely.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

You're going to see how it locks it down and then. Yeah. Okay, let's talk about Navy Federal because this time if you're new here, it's Time for our Navy Federal shout out. This is the part of the show where we salute the people that kept us safe all weekend, our troops. So on behalf of the men and women making podcasts in Mom's basement and the men and women at Navy Federal Credit Union who serve our active military, our veterans and their families, here's to you. Thank you for all you do. Let's go stack some Benjamins now, shall we?

[A]

Cheers.

[C]

Thanks, everybody.

[B]

Bring out your date. I'm not dead.

[A]

What?

[B]

Nothing.

[C]

Use your ninepence. I'm not dead. Here.

[B]

He says he's not dead. Yes, he is. I'm not. He isn't. Well, he will be soon.

[C]

He's very ill.

[B]

I'm getting better. No, you're not. You'll be stone dead in a moment. I can't take him like that. It's against regulations.

[C]

Live from Joe's mom's basement, it's the Stacking Benjamin Show. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And let's move the spotlight squarely on to you. Today we're taking your questions and turning them into answers with CFP Anna Allum. You've asked some great questions on buying life insurance, dealing with inconsistent income, opt in versus opt out, retirement plans, gifting money, and using tax shelters. But of course, we won't just help you with those questions. I'll pose my trivia question to you, and I know you'll be sharing the answer with your friends the moment this show is over. And now, two people who got the lucky mission of being here with you while OG is having what's probably a horrible time in the Caribbean. Wait, is it Caribbean? Caribbean? Does it matter? You're not. It doesn't matter.

[A]

Are you actually asking.

[C]

Yeah, I was actually asking you guys. I mean, I played some dead rooms before, but you guys are cool.

[B]

We thought you were finishing.

[A]

Is it the Pirates of the Caribbean or the Pirates of the Caribbean?

[C]

Oh, that's excellent. Anyway, he's there with all the pirates. So we're here with Joe and CFP Anna.

[D]

Al.

[A]

Al.

[B]

Al. Al. Alum.

[D]

Wow.

[B]

Hey.

[C]

Hey, stackers.

[B]

Happy Monday. Welcome to the show that helps you control the controllable and laugh at what you can't. We can't control the word Caribbean or Caribbean or whatever it is. It's out of control. But we can help you with your questions and we got the right person here to do it. Anna Ellum's joining us. How are you?

[A]

Hey, Joe. I'm doing good. Ready to answer these questions, get into them.

[C]

It might be You, Joe. Because she sounds just as excited to talk to you as OG does normally. So maybe it's just you, man.

[B]

It's okay. Whatever.

[A]

I work with OG so I catch some of his vibes.

[B]

It's starting to rub off. That's a scary thing, Doug. It's very scary. But, Anna, you've heard the questions. I heard the. We got some badass questions, man. People asking some good stuff here.

[A]

Yeah, we do. I'm a little scared.

[B]

Well, so you made it. You found us. Sit back and relax. Grab a sheet of paper or whatever device you take notes on because we're going to be bringing it today. We have a bunch of great answers. But before that, we also have a couple sponsors who help us keep on keeping on. We're going to hear from them so that the Stacking Benjamin show remains free and worth every penny. That was supposed to be funny. Maybe not funny too soon. Not good. I feel like Doug now. Anybody?

[A]

What's the joke?

[C]

I was going to say now you know.

[A]

What was the joke?

[B]

It's worth every penny.

[C]

Every penny.

[A]

Okay, okay. Sorry.

[C]

If you write in my script, laugh here. I'll laugh.

[B]

We're going to hear from them. We'll try to get a sense of humor together. And we'll be back with your questions here in a second. Like the mechanic with his car, I waited too long to get life insurance. Luckily, nothing happened to me. But of course, on Stacking Benjamin's over the years and even during my financial planning years, that's not always the case. And I can't tell you how good I felt when I finally realized that if something happened to me that my family, my kids, my spouse fully covered. And what was shocking to me was how easy the process was. And this is back then, right? This is this. This is a long time ago. And now it's even easier today. Ethos makes getting life insurance super fast and easy. It's all 100% online. Didn't have that before. Get a quote in seconds. That didn't happen. Apply in minutes. Also, I had pages and pages. Not the case anymore. And you get same day coverage. No medical exam. You just answer a few simple health questions. You get up to $3 million in coverage. Some policies are as low as $30 a month. And as of March 2025, Business Insider named Ethos the number one no medical exam, instant life insurance provider. And Ethos says 4.08 out of 5 stars on Trustpilot. There's over 3,000 reviews. Protect your family with life insurance from Ethos. Now by going to ethos.comsb you tell them that we sent you. That way ethos.comsb and as little as 10 minutes you can get your free quote and up to $3 million in coverage at ethos.comsb that's ethos.comsb application times and rates may vary. American Skyjacker tells the story of DB Cooper copycat Martin McNally who hijacked a plane and jumped out with $500,000. But that's just the start of this epic true crime saga. Now American Skyjacker is an action packed documentary available on all major platforms. Go to americanskyjacker.com to subscribe to the podcast and watch the film. And look out for a new bonus episode of the podcast coming soon. American Skyjacker. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. All right guys, the team's all limbered up. You guys ready to go?

[A]

Ready to go. Send it.

[B]

Let's say hello to Stacker. Well, actually, before we say hello to any stackers, if you have a question for the basement, bring those to us. The place to go and leave your question is stacky. Benjamins.com yell downstairs st. Benjamins.com yell Downstairs. We're always yelling upstairs at mom. Now you get to yell downstairs at us. And Curtis, first person to yell his question. Hey Curtis.

[D]

My wife and I purchased term life insurance on a 20 year level term about five years ago. Our situation at the time was 10 to 12 times our earnings, which I realize is just a rule of thumb and Joe hates rules of thumb, but we did what kind of made sense at the time. However, our life has changed for the better. Both of our incomes have raised substantially. We've made a couple of moves since that point and so now it represents about four to five times our annual salary. We're looking at updating this by purchasing another term. But my question is, what's the best way to go about updating policies? I don't want to cancel the current policy until I've made sure that we can get the same type of coverage and that nothing unexpected comes up. From a health perspective, we certainly don't expect anything like that, but you never know. Is it best to go through your current provider and try to call and update your current coverage, or is it best to shop a new location all over again and start the process all over? If you go that route, how do you settle out getting the new policy and then addressing the old policy?

[A]

Thanks.

[B]

Hey Curtis, thanks a lot for the question. And he's right. And I, I truly do not like Rules of thumb. Just because every situation is so much different and frankly, it's not that hard to figure out the right amount of life insurance. It is not that difficult at all. So why don't we start, Anna, before we actually get to his question, what to do when he's changing life insurances and he's shopping life insurances to, first of all, finding that right number for life insurance. Like, what's the process that you use to help somebody figure out fairly quickly how much life insurance they actually need?

[A]

There's two approaches to this. There's the approach that Curtis is taking, the human life value rule of thumb. We're going to do 10 to 12 times our income update that every so often as your income changes, then there's needs based, which is where you're actually calculating exactly the amount of money that you would want in order to sustain the same level of living after you pass for your surviving spouse and family members. And so that's more of the route that we go down when we're making these calculations. And in addition, I think OG probably has talked about this plenty of times when mentioning life insurance, but we don't just look at the person who's being insured and replacing their income and replacing what they would contribute to expenses in the family, but we also look at the spouse's income as well. And we assume that if you were to pass away, your spouse could basically stop working indefinitely at that point, because you really just don't know how the surviving spouse is going to react when something like that happens, especially if you have kids. That is a huge transition that you're going to have to go through, and you don't know what's going to be in store with that.

[B]

Back when I was an advisor, I saw this in my practice all the time. Some people buried themselves in their work. That's all they wanted to do was go to work. They didn't want to think. They want to be around people all the time. Other people, when the exact opposite way. We just talked to Tiffany Alice during our Greatest Hits week. People may have heard that just before New Year's, and Tiffany went to Bali for six months and didn't tell anybody where she was. Like, nobody had any idea where she. She just left. She up and went away. So the time that you're most volatile, I think, is probably when your closest person to you passes away. Mm.

[A]

Yeah. So it's important to have the max number that you think you're gonna need in place. I wouldn't say, like, go less than that because you don't know if you want to go to Bali, you're not having an income and now you're spending more money than you probably were previously.

[B]

I would, at the very least, I would look at that number. I know we're gonna have some of our very, very frugal stackers that are already pushing back on. Whoa, that's just, you know, that's more life insurance that I really want. If we're talking term life insurance and the difference is in the 10, 20, 30, $40 range between buying the minimum, minimum, minimum duct tape at all and hope for the best versus solve all your issues, no matter what that difference is. I think having those different numbers before you make the decision is an important thing to do.

[A]

Yeah. And it really comes down to what are you going to be offered anyways? You might not even be able to get the max insurance that you're looking for because of your health or just because of your income level. You'll have to go through the underwriting process in order to figure that out.

[B]

Yeah. It is interesting because especially when Curtis, when you're looking at income streams for people that have a spouse that doesn't have an income and they pass away, you're not looking at the economic value of that person. Like when my kids were in school, I was working from home and I arranged my schedule so that I could be there when my kids got home from school and that I could take care of them. And I did dinner three nights a week. Cheryl did dinner the other two nights a week. We would juggle our schedules that way. Well, if I had been just a full time at home spouse and Cheryl had been working all that time, there would have been nobody at home for our kids. The economic value that we still needed to need to look at. Which is why I like looking Curtis at expenses versus looking at your income. Sure. And, and Anna explained, you already explained this about human life value. Human life values just taking what you make and saying, hey, I want to replicate that income stream, I want that income stream to continue. And so look at raises you're going to get over your lifetime, how much money you can make over your lifetime, present value that number and decide how much that, that generally is going to give you an even bigger number, I think, Anna, than your maximum needs base to cover all of, you know, not having to work. I think that human life value number for a lot of people still is bigger. And you kind of come up with this field goal and then you look inside the field goal at where do you want to be. That sounds really complicated, Curtis. It's not at all. In fact, there's a website that I like to do this that's free. It's lifehappens.org. if you go to lifehappens.org they have both calculators, they have a needs based calculator where he just put in how much money you spend on different things. And then there is a human life value calculator. You can look at both of those numbers, look at both sides of the field goal and then decide really where you're going to be. And you can look at how much those different insurances cost for those different approaches. Now when he talks about shopping it, he asked, let's start with question number one. Does he look at the full field of insurers? Is it better for him to just go back to his current insurer? I think he's assuming, Anna, that the current insurer might be easier because the fact that he already has insurance through him.

[A]

It might be easier because if it's been a specific amount of years, like they might not ask for full underwriting, full labs, all of that. But it's definitely important to shop around. Insurance companies will change. Like I've seen it year to year where it's the same person and I think we're going to end up with one company and we end up with a completely different company because they have better premiums that year. So it's definitely important to shop around. You're also probably in a different age bracket at this point and each insurance company is going to look at each age bracket as a different risk level and they're going to put you in a different category based off of that time has changed, maybe your health has changed. If anything has come up different. Insurance companies look at any sort of health issues differently. So that's important to consider. Basically what I'm trying to say is you should definitely shop around.

[B]

Yeah, 100%. Also, if you're working with insurance agents or insurance brokers, make sure you're asking what discounts you receive different. You might get some affinity discounts depending on what programs that particular company has. I also want to address his question about when does he cancel the old coverage? Because I love that question, Curtis. People don't ask that question enough. And I've seen people f this up. I've seen people really, they cancel the old one and then they don't get approved for the new one and you're like, oh my God, I have no life insurance. So they clearly. And I want to make sure they got the new one in place before they cancel the old one. Yeah.

[A]

The other way you can look at this too is something called laddering. So this is where let's say you have a million dollars in place today. That was the number that you came up with five years ago. Now you look at it and the calculator is showing you need 2 million. Well, you had some health things come up. Now you're five years older, you're not going to get the best rate. So go out and apply for that $2 million policy. See what you can get. If that premium is more expensive than the first million dollar policy, you, you can stack those two policies together. Now, the caveat to this is on the back end, you're going to have a million dollars fall off five years before the other million continues. Typically this is okay because hopefully you're closer to financial independence, you have more assets and you're not going to need as much life insurance to begin with.

[B]

Yeah, I forgot to mention that even we were talking about calculating the amount of life insurance that you need. You're going to come up with these numbers, whichever calculator you end up using, Curtis, and you're going to come up with a number, but part of that's going to be covered by assets. So if you've been a really good saver, you're going to need a lot less life insurance or maybe a little less life insurance than you would if you didn't have any savings at all. So to your point, Anna, you get to that point in your life, fewer years to cover. Maybe it's some dependents have dropped off so you don't need as much money. So laddering it down so that you get less could be a great idea.

[A]

Pulling great ideas, Joe.

[B]

For people. The first of many today. She doesn't get that from Og either.

[A]

No, Doug.

[B]

Some supreme confidence.

[C]

Yeah. The number of times I've heard him say great idea, Joe, is two ever.

[B]

In all since 2012.

[A]

That's so sad.

[B]

It is where we're still coping with it. You can tell for people out there that have a permanent life insurance policy, which I'm hoping isn't a ton of our stackers, but you might. And if you do, you can call your insurance company. And many policies allow you to just lower the amount of life insurance you have, which means that the cash value inside of it will work more effectively because it's trying to cover less overhead. So it'll reduce the policy fees because there's less outstanding need. Instead of canceling policies. You could just call and lower it if you have a permanent life insurance policy. Anything else we need to, we need to cover there for Curtis, I think.

[A]

That was a great idea. Joe.

[B]

Can Anna come back?

[C]

Every show I was going to say suddenly OG is going to be a guest host.

[B]

Too bad OG can't make it anymore to the podcast. Curtis, thanks a ton for the call and congratulations on, on all the positivity, like all the great things that have happened. It's awesome to hear that life has been very good for you. Sounds like the last few years. It is a good problem to have that he needs more life insurance.

[A]

Yeah, that's awesome.

[B]

Well, and actually, in hindsight, Curtis, if you haven't changed your lifestyle, you might not. If you're looking at a needs analysis, if your lifestyle has gone up, then maybe you do. So I would use those calculators. All right, let's talk to de, who's got a question for us. Hey, Dee, what's going on?

[A]

Hi Jo and og. My name is Dee and first of all, I love the show. My question is about money gifted to grandchildren. I have a $2,000 gift per grandchild.

[B]

And want to know the best way.

[D]

To hold invest this money for my.

[A]

Grandchildren who are under 10 years of age. I want the money to have flexibility.

[D]

Beyond education payments and I would prefer that the money not be paid out directly to the child on their 18th birthday, but to have a more adulty.

[A]

Adult be in control. Any suggestions you have would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[B]

Hey D, can you adopt me? I would love it if Dee wanted to.

[A]

I want D to be my grandma.

[B]

I know. What a fantastic idea. And paying it to grandkids, which is awesome. So let's talk about some of the things that people do and what de's really getting at here. So the first thing people might do is they might put it in a 529 plan, which is a college plan. How does that handcuff some people? Anna?

[A]

Yeah, that might not be the best option for DE since she said she doesn't want it to just primarily go to college and wants the kids to have options as how they use it. I don't think DE has a specific goal in mind. Like she doesn't want it specifically for retirement, for college, for a house. Like she didn't mention that. So I guess it's just somewhere that has options.

[B]

Yeah. Well, and another place that has lots of options then that people will use is called an Ugma uniform gift to minor Zach or an UTMA Account where you basically give them the money and you're like a custodian on the account. D. But Anna, those. Those have the problem that Dee talked about as well.

[A]

Yeah. Not going to work for D again, because that will be gifted to the kids at 18. That's out of the picture.

[B]

The other problem d with the UGMA and UTMA account is if they do go to college, that money counts very severely against financial aid for college. So let's say they were going to get financial aid and you put it in the upper UGMA account. There's that. Now, what I have seen some people do, if they're not worried about financial aid, they do put it in the UPMA or UGMA account. It is the kids money at 18. But I've seen parents that relied on the stupidity of the 18 year. Not stupidity. Ignorance. Ignorance, right. Not because they could be brilliant kids. They're just ignorant about how the rules work. I know parents that have. That have gone, hey, sign here. And the kid's like, what am I signing? Well, you're signing that you can take some of your college money out. You do want to go to college, don't you? Or you know, for your car. You do want the car, don't you? And the kid's like, oh, okay. And they sign whatever parent puts in front of them, not realizing the reason the parent is having them sign it is because the parent's 100% not in control. It's all just the kids money. If the kid finds out, though, Anna, then it's theirs. Yeah. Grandparents out of the picture.

[A]

Yeah. And with a grandparent relationship, it might not be as much in control there. And then you might have some angry parents because now these kids have a little pot of money.

[B]

Yeah. So I had an idea. I'd love to hear what your idea is.

[A]

I didn't feel like there's the best answer to this question. Like every. Every type of account that you could potentially open, like, has some sort of caveat to it. The best option is to have probably just a brokerage account available for the kids. Now, Joe, let me hear your thoughts so I don't go down this rabbit hole and you have something that's brilliant.

[B]

Well, I don't have anything that's brilliant. So here's my thought, because my thought's exactly the same way. I would have a separate brokerage account for each kid. I would keep your name on it as the owner. D. You would own the money, so you control it forever. Now, the downside, and I think Anna, this is kind of where you're going is that you can only give so much money per year to the grandkid without having to file what's called a gift tax return, which this year it's $19,000. So if you project out in the future, you're like, I'm not giving them more than $19,000 in a year. Then this might be a good option because you put them as the beneficiary. So you own the account. It's separate. Because each of these accounts has a different beneficiary, it's a different kid on it that's going to get it. So in your brain you're able to keep it separate. And then when you gift them the money, assuming it's less than 19,000, you do it whenever the hell you want and with whatever restrictions you want.

[A]

The only other downside I thought about with opening up a separate brokerage account for each kid is we don't know how many grandkids Dee has. She might have 18 grandkids. Yeah, yeah, 18 grandkids. She has 18 1099s every year to file. She has 18 or 19 accounts plus her own to just keep track of and go onto her fidelity Schwab, whatever and look at and rebalance and take care of. And so the other option too is to just put it into one account. You know, this is for the grandkids. You are just saving right now for all of them. And that's just the purpose. They're all under 10. Once they get closer to the age in which you want to actually give money, you can start thinking about, okay, what is the number that I'm going to give to each of them at that point? And in terms of beneficiaries, just list them all equally. You're really just putting money away for each kid right now. And if something were to happen, they'll just equally get their share of the brokerage account at that point. I think both of them have caveats or not. Neither of those are like the best solution. But that's really your only solution right now.

[B]

My dad had 16 brothers and sisters, and I think all of them but two had kids. Imagine 15 different kids. The number of grandkids. I don't even know how many cousins I have. Like, I've never counted. Yeah, but there's a ton of us out there. And I think for my grandma, that would have been a total nightmare.

[A]

Yeah, that would be D's full time job. So I don't know if that's the best either.

[B]

But on the other side. So that's the downside with my approach. The downside with Anna's approach is that I've had people with this issue of fairness, which is the younger kids, the money bakes for longer and they get more compounding than the older kids got. So you're going to have to come up with a way to figure out what quote fair is. But it's your money. So doing that, you know, I don't know, the family dynamic.

[C]

You said it would be a nightmare for your grandmother to manage all of those different accounts. Joe, the nightmare happened when she delivered 18 babies.

[B]

17.

[C]

17.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You lose track.

[A]

It's crazy.

[C]

I think she. Nothing was going to faze that woman after that. I think she could handle accounts. Yeah.

[B]

Depending on how many kids there are. D I think we like those two strategies, and neither one, Anna's perfect.

[A]

Yeah. I think the other. Not to, like, make this more complicated. But the other option is a Roth IRA for each of the kids if they start to have earned income at all. You could put money in there, and yes, it is theirs, but they can't take it out. Like, there's a lot of rules around it. So then you have less risk of them actually pulling the money out. But there is limitations. This is for retirement at that point.

[B]

Sure. But if they decide to take some of the money out later on to buy a car, they can. That means they really want to. You can discourage them against that. But there is a little bit of flexibility there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If they don't have income, though, and I think she said they're under 10, so they're probably not working. D thank you so much for the question, and congratulations on the grandkids. And again, if you want to adopt Anna and Doug and I and add us to that mix, we promise we'll be good with the money. We'll do well by you. All right, we've got one more before we get to Doug's trivia. I know Doug's so excited about today's trivia, but Chris is waiting in the wings. We got to talk to Chris first. Hey, Chris. What's happening, man? Joe. OG what's up? Big D, Double D, the D. Hey, Doug.

[C]

Right on, brother.

[B]

I'm curious your guys thoughts on the new rule change of opting out of 401s versus having to opt in love. The rule for the average person out there, obviously probably not investing as much as they should be, but with more passive investors already in the market and now with this new rule change of having to opt out of 401k investing, I would assume that pours even more passive investing into the market. How will that change the way the market moves? Will the lows be any less volatile with new passive income flowing in kind of regardless of the performance and market conditions? Do you think that's going to change the traditional measurements of price to earning ratios and all that? Not going to change the way I do anything, continue to invest like low cost and keep adding to the pile. But I'm just curious what you guys thoughts are. Thanks, Chris. I love these thoughtful questions, these kind of what if. Anna, Nothing about Chris's situation. He's not going to change anything. But do you think it changes the game? So many people putting money passively into the market, Anna, do you think that means the indexing kind of drives stock prices up because so many people investing aren't paying any attention to what's really going on with the companies they own?

[A]

I actually was having this thought the other day and it didn't stem from the rule change of opting into 401ks. It was more along the lines of like we live in a time where there's so many resources to education on investing and personal finance and all of that and you have so many people to talk to about this. And it had me thinking about how back when my dad, my dad didn't have any sort of investing knowledge, his parents didn't teach him any of this kind of stuff and he had to learn a lot of it on his own. Back in like the early 90s, late 80s is kind of when he started to like actually try to wrap his head around this. And he had to literally like dial into the computer. I don't even know how to describe that. I don't know what that means. But he had to get onto chat rooms with people to learn about investing. And meanwhile 2026, I'm like outside with my headphones on listening to podcasts all the time. I'm at the gym listening to podcasts. I am on Instagram Reels, TikToks, all of these education resources coming towards me. And I know that's happening for a lot of people. And so we've gotten to this time where I know a large portion of the people don't know about investing, but I do feel like a lot of people actually know the basics. And one being one basic principle being like, don't touch your money. Put it in and don't touch it. I had this thought like, will this change volatility at all this past year? Not really? Because on the, on the flip side of things, we know so much about what's going on politically and what's happening in the market that we're still seeing a lot of volatility. But on the other hand, we have so many people who know, dump your money in and don't touch it. And so will that change things moving forward? Like, we're just going to learn more and more as we can, get more access to educational resources and know more about how to be a prudent investor. And so it had me thinking the same exact thought. I don't know the answer to this question, but it was kind of a funny thought. And I don't know, Maybe opting into 401ks automatically will also do the same thing as well.

[B]

Chris Jack Bogle's answer to this before he passed away was, yes, certainly it could potentially create problems. But I also agree with this next take, which is that is so far down the line. That is so, so, so far. Mostly because while states now have financial curriculum in schools, much more than he did even five years ago, there are so many more people, Anna, to your point, listening to podcasts like ours or reading books or paying attention, watching YouTube videos, whatever it might be, because there are so many more people that know and are educated. We're still just a long, long way from, from that. I still feel like, Anna, people's ability to do dumb things with their money as more people opt in talking to HR people that I know as we've, you know, we have this benefits guide and with our benefits guide, I talk to HR pros all the time and they tell me that what has happened around opt out, meaning that you're automatically enrolled in your 401k is the number of 401k loans has gone through the roof because people's ability to do dumb crap with their money, they just can't keep their hands on the cookie jar. Anna. Yeah, so we're still a long, long way from anything like that. Some something where there's the S&P 500 and nothing else or, you know, so much more money centered there and nobody's moving. So it kind of gridlocks the stock market. I don't think that's anything we're going to see for a long, long, long time.

[C]

You know, I'm sure Anna's answer was probably great. I mean, most of the stuff she says is great, but I didn't hear a word she said after she struggled to understand the concept of, like how her dad dialed up to the Internet.

[B]

Or like his old AOL connection, his chat room.

[C]

Yeah, that was uncalled for, young lady.

[B]

Anna, tell us we're old without telling us we're old.

[A]

Well, I didn't say that. You guys also were dialing up. I'm saying before that.

[B]

Anna, that's the problem. Like dialing up does not sound like that long ago. That's the sad news. Oh, man.

[A]

Sorry, Doug.

[B]

Okay, enough old guy stories, Chris. Overall, here's what I like. Let's talk more and not about the singularity happening and it ruining the stock market. Let's talk about what's good about this idea of opt out. So what opt out of your 401k means stackers, is that when you go get a new job, you're automatically enrolled in the 401k. You want to check with your employer when you get a new job, but generally they will enroll you. And the amount that they put in is different all the time. But for a lot of people I think it's 3%. For many people, sometimes it's up to 6, but I see lots of different numbers. What I like about this, Anna, is you look at the difference between things in the United States and in Singapore and I'm being very specific with Singapore because we are a debtor nation and the way that our economy keeps going is the Fed lowers interest rates which lets people borrow more money. The way our whole economy operates is borrowing. We are a borrowing society. Singapore, over a long period and it's a fascinating history we don't need to get into today has flipped that. And they are a wealthy economy and mostly because of the fact that a long time ago people were required to save money that they couldn't touch. And now the average person in Singapore versus in the United States, it's pretty damn wealthy. It is a pretty wealthy country. And that economy drives on the wealth and the savings rate of people. And it'd be awesome, Anna, to see us get there. It's much less of a precarious place because I think when you're dealing with people in debt, you're, you know, you're going to have people that help the economy more than others and it doesn't end up being great for a lot of our stackers.

[A]

Yeah, that's such an interesting statistic. I think the one part that worries me with the opt in or that you, you have to opt out is that people are going to be automatically opted in to their 401k and they're not going to know and then they're going to Leave that job, and they're just never going to know that that account existed.

[B]

Oh, that sucks.

[A]

And I've seen that where we're digging for accounts at old jobs for clients and. And trying to find those, and they don't even know if they had an account there or not, if they had one. So that's the only thing that's like a red flag to me with this. If that's going to be the case, I'd rather people just have the money and they have to make the decision to create the account so that they know that it exists out there. But it still is a good first step to get people to start investing more.

[B]

It is. I like it better than the alternative still. I mean, truly, at some point, there still has to be some. I got to take care of my stuff. I actually have to pay attention. But the fact that it makes it easier for people to pay attention and. And it's one less decision. You know, I'm already opted in. Should I raise the amount instead of should I save it all? I feel like that floor got a little, little better for a lot of people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Coming up in the second half, we're gonna take some great questions from John and from Alex. John wants to know about college and his family and about how college aid works. And Alex has a big question about income that goes up and down and up and down and emergency funds. So we're going to talk about that in the second half. But, Doug, I think we're celebrating a big birthday today, though.

[C]

Sure are, Joe. Hey there, Stackers. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and you can probably tell from my morose disposition that, yes, I did in fact just finish rereading the Raven for the first time.

[B]

Rereading for the first time.

[C]

I mean, yeah, it's possible. I'm working here. Let me continue. So I just finished rereading it for the first time. Very sophisticated themes and stuff. Lots of complex, like birds and darkness and stuff. Surprisingly, not a word about the Baltimore football team. And this is the last time I reread, read that book, Nevermore. Anyway, today we're celebrating a guy who on this day was born back in 1809. You definitely know his name. He wrote the Tell Tale Heart, the Pit and the Pendulum, and a bunch of other stories that'll make you sleep with the lights on. Here's the twist. Despite being one of the most famous writers in American history, this dude was terrible with money. Like Doug trying to day trade terrible in 1842. He felt like I know my limits. In 1842, he filed for bankruptcy with debts listed at just over $2,000, which is like 70 grand in today's money. And get this. He never really recovered financially. Spent his whole life famous but broke. It's like we're brothers. Pretty much. So who was this literary genius who could terrify millions but couldn't balance a checkbook to save his life? I'll be back with the answer right after I pitch Netflix my new horror series, the Fall of the House of Sol Sehi.

[D]

What?

[B]

Dude, I'm right here.

[C]

I know. It would be horrible. Wouldn't it be a horror story if the House of Saul Sehi fell? It's gonna be about a shockingly handsome trivia host, loosely based on someone you may or may not know trapped in Joe Dank basement. Emphasis on dank. Desperately trying to escape before the property value tanks. Terrifying.

[B]

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[C]

Get ready for the Rush with Max Crosby.

[A]

It's time.

[C]

Don't miss the bump behind the scenes moments everyone's talking about, regardless of what they say.

[B]

I'll take the.

[C]

Fine.

[B]

I don't care.

[C]

All pro defensive end Max Crosby takes you beyond the field with exclusive insights.

[B]

I could say this because I played them. This is the Rush. You guys already know what time it is. It was fire. And we'll be right back on the pod and we'll be talking about it next week.

[C]

The Rush with Max Crosby. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. Welcome back, Stackers. I'm aspiring horror novelist and future Netflix showrunner Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. All right, so we were talking about A guy born January 19, 1809, who wrote some of the creepiest, most influential stories in American literature. The Raven, the Fall of the House of Usher. I thought that one just happened. Anyway, the Pit and the Pendulum story so good that Netflix just made an entire series based on his work. But despite all that fame, the guy died practically penniless. Filed for bankruptcy. Never stacked a single Benjamin. So who is it? None other than Edgar Allan Poe. That's right. The master of macabre. Couldn't master his money. Kind of makes you feel better about your own financial mistakes, right? Like. Like, sure, I overpaid for that timeshare, but at least I'm not Edgar Allan Poe broke. Yeah, the lesson here, stackers. Talent and fame don't automatically equal wealth. Trust me. You gotta actually manage your money. Something Poe clearly never figured out. Probably too busy writing about people getting buried alive and talking Ravens. Priorities, Edgar. Priorities. And now back to two people ready to answer even more of your terrifying questions. It's Joe and Anna.

[B]

And tell them they've actually been very non terrifying. Thank goodness. And have you read much Edgar Allan Poe?

[A]

I've read no Edgar Allan Poe.

[B]

None?

[A]

No, that's not really my genre. I stick to, like, historical fiction, maybe a little thriller, but not Edgar Al. Po. Thriller vibes.

[B]

But didn't watch either. The Netflix show based on the. What was it called? It was something about the fall of the House of Usher.

[A]

No, but maybe I'll turn that on after the Masked Singer tonight.

[B]

It's kind of wild though. There are.

[C]

Wow, she's too highbrow for us, Joe.

[B]

She's a little. A little a fetus, I think it is. It's a very dark show, especially when you realize that every episode, one member of the family is going to die. Like every single episode. Like I'm telling you right now that it's X number of episodes long. And the deal is is one of them dies every episode.

[A]

Okay, I won't be watching that after the messenger, for sure.

[B]

What was cool. And they may have this in. In a town near you, but even in Texarkana, we had this cool thing, that ground post speakeasy where Cheryl and I went with some friends and there were four people working and it was in this nice, cool space that they made to look kind of macabre. And what happens is you sit down and they give you a drink based on a ground post stuff. So it is like a fake eyeball in it, you know, Or. Or something fun, I think. We had four drinks, one before each of the four performances. And the same people. We didn't realize this at first. The same people that take your tickets, that show you where to sit, that are serving you the drinks, they go up one by one and they each tell an Edgar Allan Poe story in front of everybody.

[A]

That's cool.

[B]

It was a campy, fun night.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

If you get a chance to go to the Edgar Allan Post speakeasy if it comes to your town.

[C]

So, like, instead of an olive your martini, you got an eyeball yeah, or like a dead bird in your beer.

[A]

Sounds awesome.

[B]

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Not a real one. Everything was that. I don't remember what the eyeball actually was, but it was a good, like sugary, you know, it was like a sugar cube that was part of the drink.

[C]

How do you know that's not how they taste like?

[B]

I've. That's true. I've never tasted eyeball. I've never had that. Moving on quickly. John is joining us. Hey John.

[E]

Hey Joe and Og and Doug, I guess this is John. I have a FAFSA question for you. For the last decade plus, I have been maxing out my wife and I's Roth IRAs and then contributing some to my Roth 401 with my employer. Currently have one child away at college, but I have four total and at its peak I'm going to have three in college simultaneously. I know that the FAFSA looks at the last two years of my tax returns, so I'm a little behind on any changes.

[C]

But.

[E]

But my question is, does it make sense to shift my retirement investing for the next several years to first making sure that I'm maxing out my traditional 401k with my employer and thereby reducing my AGI and FAFSA SAI index? I know that in some cases retirement contributions get added back, but I'm not actually sure I understand how or when that happens. So maybe this wouldn't help further. As a shareholder and member of a mid level leadership group and my employer, I'm paid pretty well. Since the limit for those of us under 50 is only 24,500. Is there a point where my income is so high that sheltering some income in a traditional 401k contribution won't even move the needle that much with FAFSA? Bottom line, what are some things I need to think about when deciding whether or not to shift my retirement contributions? And if it's worth the trouble.

[B]

We should define and thanks for the question, John. And we should define some of these terms that John use for people. Maybe they have young children or they're thinking about going to school themselves. So the FAFSA is this form that people fill out to try to get financial aid. And the way that financial aid systems work is easy to think about if you just think about everything flowing downhill. So individual colleges have their programs. A lot of independent places have their own aid programs or scholarships that they want, but they want to coordinate it with the school. So we'll start there. Individual places go. You know what I'd like to coordinate Things with the school. So we're going to run this through the school financial aid program. We're going to be associated with the X school and so we'll coordinate it with them. And the school says, well, you know what, we've got only so much money. We're going to coordinate our stuff with whatever the state will do, especially if it, I mean, if it's a state supported institution, we're going to coordinate it with the state. The state has some money, might have some programs. Depending on what state you live in. The state goes, yeah, we only have so much money. We're going to coordinate it with the federal government. We're going to see what the federal government will give you. And the federal government has, this has two things. Number one, the student loan program, but also the Pell Grant program, which are grants that you don't need to pay back. And so the FAFSA at its heart is the application to get a pell grant. But 99.9% of the schools out there use this because everything flows downhill. You apply for a Pell Grant, you get it or you don't. They pass it on to the state, the state gives you money or they don't. They pass it on to the school, the school gives you money or they don't. The school then shares your numbers and, and whatever there is with any need based places that want to coordinate with the school. They give you money or they don't. One program that kind of all flows downhill. So that's what the FAFSA is. You want to make sure that you fill it out. I know a lot of people are afraid of the fafsa. I remember my parents wanted nothing to do with it when I filled it out a long, long time ago. Apparently, according to Anna, Doug and I are dinosaurs. But even as early as five, six years ago, it was much more difficult than it is now. The FAFSA is now the world's easiest thing to fill out. Is super easy and you should fill it out every single year. People don't get aid when their kid or when they are a freshman. So they give up, they don't do it again. Do it when you're a sophomore, when you're a junior, when you're a senior. This is interesting. Anna, my daughter did not get any aid her freshman year. If we would have given up, she would have never gotten aid. She got aid her sophomore year and then she got more aid her junior year and the same amount her senior year. So had we not filled out the FAFSA Every single year. We would have missed out on some money her sophomore year and much, much more money her junior and senior year. So make sure you fill it out every, every single year.

[A]

Joe, the other part that the FAFSA can provide too is subsidized and unsubsidized loans. And so if you're going the loan route and you fill out the, the FAFSA and you don't get any sort of aid, you might qualify for subsidized loans, which can be super helpful for your child who's in college not having a interest being accrued while they're actually in school and just having to worry about that once they leave school. And I think it's, you know, six months after they actually graduate. So those are really helpful too.

[B]

But even if you don't get subsidized loans, the unsubsidized loan program is also through fafsa. So getting those loans also, I think, yeah, the FAFSA is something you definitely want to do. The second thing that he mentioned was the sai and this is the Student Aid Index. This replaced something that was called the Expected Family Contribution, the efc. So this is a calculation that the government makes to decide how much money you're going to get. And this is where Anna, his question comes from, should I switch from Roth where more of my income is showing up on the ssai, showing him making a bunch more money. If he goes pre tax, it's going to show him making less money this year. And he's wondering if that makes sense.

[A]

Yeah, we don't really know what that's going to do to your financial aid or your eligibility for different types of loans. It's going to depend on who also is submitting the FAFSA and who also needs aid. And the decisions are made year to year. That's why Joe is saying in one year his daughter got aid or one year she didn't get aid, the following year she got aid. It's not because Joe's income went down, I would assume it's just because of the different applications that they're looking at in that year.

[B]

Yeah, and the things that she got. The aid that she got, Anna, was specifically for sophomores and then for upperclassmen. So there's different aid programs that are available just for people in different programs in different years. And so there were fewer people competing for that upperclassman money her junior and senior year than there were her freshman year. So yeah, it's 100% competitive, John. Now that said, it is first come, first serve so they have deadlines for the FAFSA. So they'll look at everyone who applies when the due date comes and you'll be competing against those people if you're behind those people. If you're later than those people, you may be somebody who qualifies. But these different programs ran out of money. So you want to make sure that you meet the due dates. Pay specific attention every year to the due dates. And by the way, and this is not an ad for our guide, but our guide does have a calculator where you can look at the your SAI calculations. There's SAI calculations all over the Internet, so you don't need to buy our guide for that. But we also every year keep up with what the dates are. Those are always in our guide stacking benjamins.com guide and you'll see all of our guides. But our college planning guide that we work with the college investor on has all of these numbers and kind of what Anna and I are going through right now for you. But yeah, Anna, it's pretty competitive. And when you say they look, John, at the last two years, they really don't. They look at the year before last year. So it's two years back that they're looking. Which means it would have been better had you gone pre tax or earlier. It would have affected your child in college now. But if two years from now you're in the same situation that you are today, then yes, by all means I might go pre tax. I think though, Anna, when it comes to like looking at the rest of your financial plan, not just college, I know that people tend to look myopically at just one area of their financial plan. Right. They go, oh, college, let's see if we can get aid. But really, if he's got a lot of money pre tax already, he might be saving a few dollars in financial aid today or maybe none, depending on how competitive it is, may not get anything and may end up creating a big tax trap in retirement.

[A]

Yeah, you don't want to be messing with something for like a short term result that's going to mess up your long term plan. However, if you do have a good balance and it sounds like you're maxing out your Roth, I think it was contributing to your, your pre tax. If you have been doing that, you probably have a big bucket of Roth and you probably feel okay on that end. And my other thought was you have your hands full with up to three kids at one time in college. That's gonna be very expensive regardless of what kind of aid you get regardless of what kind of loans you get. It might be good to switch to pre tax to begin with just so that you do continue to save. But you're getting a little bit more tax savings today in order to beef up your cash flow just a little bit. It might do a little something while you're still being able to save and put the kids through college.

[B]

If tax rates don't go up, John, and you're making good income now, your tax rate might be lower in retirement. So having money in that pre tax position could potentially help you a lot. I know when we had our good friend Sean Mulaney on, he went against the grain of everybody that we've talked to, Ed Slot and other financial experts. And he said he likes for, especially for a lot of our stacker listeners, he likes pre tax better than the Roth. I just find, you know, an OG and I, and I don't know how you feel about this, Anna, but we're like, don't even play the game because you don't know. You got to predict future, future tax. Who can predict future tax rates? So don't play the game. Takes one bird in the hand today and put some money in the Roth for tomorrow.

[A]

Yeah, it's good to have a balance between the three categories being Roth pre tax and taxable brokerage.

[B]

Yeah. Flexible money.

[A]

Yeah. Having a balance between that, we don't know if tax rates are going to go up. If they do, yeah, obviously better to put it into Roth today, but they could stay the same like you said. And then your actual tax bracket, you're making less money, you're in retirement, you could be in a different tax bracket. So even if rates go up, potentially you might just be in a lower tax bracket at that point. And pre tax would have been a better move today. So we don't know what the future holds. That's why it's good to look at all of your accounts, put them into the different buckets, look at it today and say, what do we have in each of these buckets? What should we prioritize for the next couple of years? And then we'll relook at it and we'll say, okay, where do we need to adjust at that point? And then you can throw in the college stuff. I mean, that's a huge part of your life. And this is having four kids through college, that's a lot. So this should definitely play a role into like the decision making around this too.

[B]

100%. We also like the brokerage account even Though it's taxable so it has a little bit of tax friction. We like it because how many times people over optimized and then they're in a position where they just need money and everything's locked up in tax shelters. It's so much better when you have some money that you can go to and just grab if things change which the one constant I feel like when I was a financial planner was change. Like people were always coming in with something new. Like guess what changed in our life something that we didn't expect. John, thanks for the question. By the way. One thing that used to you might have read before was that having multiple kids in college really helped your financial aid score no longer does with the sai when it was expected family contribution. I think the government maybe Anna had a little more empathy. Now they're like hey John, that's your problem that you for kids in college so good luck with that man. Yeah.

[C]

Should have kept it in your pants John.

[A]

I wasn't going to say it.

[B]

Government could have put some velvet on that hammer I think a little bit. All right, we got time for one more and that means Alex is last but not least. I love Alex's question. Why don't you share with the Stackers what you're thinking.

[F]

Hey Joe and OG and I guess I should acknowledge that Doug is there too. Thank you for taking my call. Here's my situation. I am 25 years old. I've been married for about four months and I'm starting to realize married life is slightly more expensive than bachelor life. My wife and I are in the process of building an emergency fund. But over the winter when our photography business is slow and we rely fully on my income, we have next to nothing at the end of the month to put in the emergency fund. We also have one car that's probably going to need to be replaced soon. Since we have no debt, I would like to keep it that way and pay cash for our next car. Currently I contribute $164 to my HSA per week and we have about $5,000 in it right now before the company profit sharing goes into my Roth 401k this year I have about $41,000 in a Roth 401k and contribute 8% with a 50% match up to 6% from my company every week to put some money back into our hands for the at least for the next few months. Would you rather see me reduce my 401k or my HSA contributions? Thanks.

[B]

Alex. Thanks so much for the question and by the way, great job of saving. Fantastic job of saving. And I love the fact that you have an HSA available and that you're contributing to it. So that could be a triple tax advantage because of the fact the money goes in pre tax and if you do it right, you may still be able to take it out tax free. So that piece is awesome. I do want to shine a light, Ann, on the fact that he said married life is more expensive than being a bachelor. Is this a passive aggressive way of saying your spouse is a spender? Yes, I felt a little passive aggressive there.

[A]

I want to send this episode to his wife and say, it's not your fault.

[B]

Yeah, he's calling you expensive.

[C]

Put the Amazon down.

[B]

All right, Anna, what do you think he does here?

[A]

It really depends on like where your emergency fund is at right now. Are you at $0? The great thing is, is that like you aren't in debt right now and you're starting on some really good practices by saving into your 401k, saving into the HSA or already having the HSA number or a value there. So that's awesome. I would say start by pulling back on the hsa considering there's no match to an hsa. Yes, it has the triple tax advantage aspect of it and that's really, really awesome. But by not contributing to your hsa, you're not leaving money on the the employer contribution like you would with a 401k. Then what I would do is I would still reduce your, your 401k contributions down to at least the match so that you continue to get that match, but you are now taking home whatever was on top of that and you're saving that. Those would be the first two places I would start. If you're in a more dire situation, your emergency fund is at zero. I would even consider reducing your 401k contributions to zero for the time being. It might be six months just to get a little bit off the ground with the emergency fund. Then you can start contributing back to the 401k. And I wouldn't contribute anything over the match until you've reached, you know, your three month number. And I know this also is kind of going down the line of like you do need a car and you want to pay cash for it. That's not your emergency fund. That's completely different account that you can work on after you hit that emergency fund number. The other part of this is your wife having variable income during the winter months or during her slow season. You guys are barely Paying your bills and maybe what you need to do is create an account that she gets paid into and then you guys pay yourself out of that and you make it so that you're getting a stable income. So if you know that she's going to make X dollars per year, but it all happens in six months, you put that into account and you divide that by 12 and then you guys pay yourself out so that you're getting a little bit more consistency throughout year and you're not in February hurting and needing to put money on the credit card and starting to go down that route.

[B]

Those were the only two things that I had was this worked really well for me and when I was a financial planner, getting people on a much more stable paycheck so you could bet on that paycheck all year long. Listen, when you're an entrepreneur, you know, there's this emotional roller coaster of what the business is doing and it's not doing. You don't need your own paycheck on that same roller coaster. So try to take it off that roller coaster. So, Anna, I 100 agree with. Give yourself a smaller paycheck that you know will last the rest of the year and then if your spouse ended up making more money that year, then give yourself a bonus maybe once every six months where you take extra money out or give yourself a raise for the following year so that you, you know, you see more money in your paycheck every two weeks, every month or whatever you decide to do during that time frame. Because in the future, Anna, that emergency fund is going to solve a lot of ills.

[A]

Yeah. Especially with the variable income that you have going on. Not even just the slow season, but like you don't know what could pop up. And, and so that'll be really important to have that in place.

[B]

Alex, thanks a ton for the question, by the way. Thanks to all of our stackers for the questions. What a, what a great, diverse group of questions. And you guys are doing some amazing things. Great job of savings. Alex, incredible. Nice work on the passive aggressive nature of your question too. That was ninja.

[A]

John crushing marriage already.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

John crushing having a lot of kids, D crushing having a lot of grandkids. We're crushing life insurance today. We got so many, so many cool things.

[C]

I'm not really that happy though with the call ins, except for maybe John who gave me my proper due. We got the big D. We got the.

[B]

How do you feel if you're Anna? Nobody said, hey Anna.

[C]

Yeah, she's the new kid. She's Gotta pay her dues.

[A]

The day that somebody writes in and says, Joe, OG and Anna, oh, the best day that'll be. Definitely need to celebrate.

[C]

Rub a lamp.

[B]

Well, let's talk about today being a great day because our stackers are up to a bunch of good stuff. Doug, let's wander out of the back porch. This is the community part of our show. Before we say goodbye and the community's active, Doug, we got a bunch going on.

[C]

I'm actually going to make this quick, but I do want to just say thanks for the kind words from stackers Jim and Nancy, who were a few of the early adopters of the Stacking Benjamin's Vault. Jim writes, I love your Swiss army knife analogy. This is well worth the money and I love the peace of mind. I was able to take my name off a bunch of spam sites and he apparently found $125 in annual subscriptions that he dropped. He just saved him over fifteen hundred dollars a year and I've barely scratched the surface on what this tool can do. Thanks for creating it. Thank you, Jim and Nancy. Glad to hear you had some success and hopefully other stackers can too.

[B]

It's so tough to go through in a short amount of time all the things that the Vault does. So later today, if you're listening to this on Monday, when it comes out 6pm Eastern, 3pm Pacific, we're going to be on YouTube. We'll also do it twice more. We'll be answering questions on Wednesday. That will be at 4pm Eastern, 1pm Pacific, and then again at 8pm Eastern, which is 5pm Pacific. Just join us on the Stacking Benjamin's YouTube channel and we'll be answering your questions about the Vault or if you just want to go take a look@stacking benjamin.com vault excited to hear already, even though it's barely been out, some of the cool success stories people have had. And I love hearing people finding 1500 bucks, boom, right away with the ball.

[C]

Like we should get a commission. Isn't that kind of how that whole.

[B]

Thing'S supposed to work? Well, I think they pay for the. They pay for the vault, so we kind of do.

[C]

I don't see a dime of that.

[B]

Yes. Yeah. Anna, thanks so much for joining us again. It's always so much more fun working with you than og but don't ever tell him I said that.

[A]

I will. Thanks, Joe. It's been a pleasure to be here.

[C]

You should absolutely tell him.

[B]

You probably should tell him. Maybe it'll make him a kindler gentler og. But if people want to get on your calendar because you are taking new clients, how do they find you?

[A]

You can go to stackingbenjamins.com OG just note down that you want to talk to me.

[B]

Absolutely. StackingBenjamins.com OG and you know what? We're here in January. Let's create a better financial trajectory this year if you did nothing in 2025. Time to get moving, Stackers. All right, that's going to do it for today. Doug, we're going to have you give us. Why do I always send this to Doug? And I have no idea. Why do we have Doug give us his top three? This always scares me. But Doug, what are the top three things we should have learned based on today's discussion?

[C]

Because you have no idea what's coming and you just hope I get it right. Well, let's roll those dice again, Joe. First, take some advice from Anna and Joe looking at life insurance options. Start with your expenses and work backwards to what you'll spend. Don't base your life insurance on what you earn unless your goal is just to continue that same income stream. Second, need an emergency fund and have inconsistent income. Build yourself a set paycheck and keep the rest in a buffer account. That way you can consistently budget instead of living the rollercoaster of maybe I get paid this month, maybe I don't. Let's see, get off that roller coaster. But the big lesson, don't tell Joe's mom that today's trivia was about Edgar Allan Poe. She starts sharing all these stories about when she and Eddie, as she called him, used to go out to the bars together back in Baltimore. Holy Joe, how old is your Mom? Thanks to CFP Anna Allum for joining us today. Anna and OG's team are taking clients, so if you need help beyond just a call to the stack or a hotline in the basement, find their [e-mail] OG and we'll also include links in our show [e-mail] this show is the property of SB Podcast, LLC, Copyright 2026 and is created by by Josal Sehai. You'll find out about our awesome [e-mail] along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello and oh yeah, before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don't take advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only before making any financial decisions, speak with a rationale. Real financial advisor. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And we'll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show.