How to Save Money Without Making Your Life Miserable (SB1770)

Summary

Podcast Summary:

The Stacking Benjamins Show – How to Save Money Without Making Your Life Miserable (SB1770)
Date: December 5, 2025
Host: Joe Saul-Sehy
Guests: Paula Pant, Jesse Kramer, Andy Hill

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Overview

This episode of The Stacking Benjamins Show explores how to practice frugality—saving money and spending with intention—without creating a miserable or deprived lifestyle. Drawing inspiration from a recent Wall Street Journal article touting the return of frugality, Joe Saul-Sehy and his roundtable (Paula Pant of Afford Anything, Jesse Kramer of Personal Finance for Long-Term Investors, and Andy Hill of Marriage, Kids & Money) dig into what frugality really means in 2025, which money-saving trends actually deliver, and share their own best (and worst) frugal hacks.

The tone is conversational, witty, and down-to-earth—true to the podcast's "fun and functional" style.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Is Frugality Trending (Again)?

Timestamp: 12:37–16:31

• The episode is sparked by a Wall Street Journal piece announcing "frugality is making a comeback."
• Paula Pant (12:56): Frugality comes in cycles, much like fashion. "...all the factors were there to make frugality awesome again."
• Jesse Kramer (13:41): It's not just a trend; higher prices and persistent inflation have made frugality a necessity, not a fad:
  “The 9 or 10% inflation from two years ago… that’s still baked into the prices. Prices haven’t gone down. It’s just that they're not going up as quickly as they were before.”

2. Should You Go Extreme Frugal?

Timestamp: 16:31–24:16

The roundtable critiques some popular "extreme" frugal tactics:

• Diluting Household Cleaners
  • Andy Hill (16:59): “The amount of time spent on something like that might be better used on maybe increasing income… Those things where you're spending ample amount of hours on ways to save a few bucks, feels like that if you just keep going in that direction, that could get to a hard grinding halt of sadness and depression.”
• Bulk Buying Meat (e.g., Half a Cow)
  • Paula Pant (18:30): “You need to have enough square footage to store it…so how much are you paying for the extra space?”
  • Doug (19:17): Notes the "hidden costs" of bulk buying—freezer price, space, and the risk of wasting food.
  • Jesse Kramer (22:29): Points out bulk-buying can lead to food waste; food is a depreciating asset, not always a frugal win.
• Gardening to Save
  • Andy Hill (25:05): “That's why they invented these things called grocery stores...”
  • Paula Pant (26:14, citing J.D. Roth): Growing your own veggies rarely saves money (“...they're like $9 tomatoes when you’re done”).

3. Real-Life Frugal Tips (That Work)

Timestamp: 28:44–32:40

• Andy Hill: Audit subscription and recurring expenses for waste. "If you spent one hour doing that, the return on your investment versus diluting your soap could be a lot higher." (28:44)
• Jesse Kramer: Batch-cook meals, freezing half for later, to save time and money.
• Joe Saul-Sehy: Use a fridge inventory app to avoid double-buying and food waste.
• Paula Pant: “Shop what you already have”—take a buy-nothing week or month to use up leftovers and forgotten pantry or closet items.

4. Strategic Approach to Frugality

Timestamp: 44:04–49:27

• Should you start with reducing expenses or boosting income?
• Andy Hill: Tackle big expenses first: housing, transportation, food. "Those can be the biggest changes when it comes to growing the gap."
• Paula Pant: Prioritize “growing the gap” (difference between income and expenses), then work both sides of that equation.
• Jesse Kramer: Start by trimming expenses ("low-hanging fruit"), then focus on income (“...after that, if you want to continue growing the gap… you have to focus on the income side and there's no easy thing to do on the income side for most of us…”).

5. “Frugal Sprints” vs. Long-term Lifestyle

Timestamp: 54:20–58:18

• Frugal sprints such as “freezer challenges” or “no spend weeks” are a way to reset and use resources without feeling perpetually deprived.
• Andy Hill: "If we look inside our house for the thing we're about to buy… what can I borrow... what can I buy used... then new?"
• Jesse Kramer (57:24): Notes the emotional (moral) element: “...that feeling of being wasteful… there is that, you know, I can’t waste it, so Jesse’s going to eat it.”

6. Involving the Family in Frugality

Timestamp: 58:20–59:28

• Andy Hill: Kids have clothing allowances and jobs and are taught to use their funds for spending, saving, investing, and giving. “If you start those conversations early, they can really be helpful.”

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Notable Quotes

• Joe Saul-Sehy: “Is true frugality maybe thinking like a just-in-time inventory company?” (20:38)
• Paula Pant: “Shop what you already have: your fridge, your closets… so much of the time we forget about those things because we keep replenishing.” (31:11)
• Doug: “Sometimes the cost savings have a lot of hidden costs that you don't think about.” (19:17)
• Andy Hill: "The best place to earn money...is the place you're already making money." (45:57)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Topic | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------------------|----------------| | Panel Introductions & Setting the Stage | 02:37–09:43 | | Frugality as a Trend & Inflation’s Impact | 12:37–16:31 | | Critiquing Extreme Frugal Tactics | 16:31–27:04 | | Genuine Frugal Tips That Actually Work | 28:44–32:40 | | Frugality Trivia Segment | 32:58–42:14 | | Expense vs. Income: The Strategic Frugal Approach | 44:04–49:27 | | Big Ticket Decisions: Housing & Transportation | 50:34–53:23 | | Frugal Sprints vs. Lifestyle | 54:20–58:18 | | Teaching Kids About Frugality | 58:20–59:28 | | Wrap-Up, Podcast Plugs, Final Thoughts | 60:03–64:49 |

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Memorable & Funny Moments

• The group jokingly wonders whether someone's hair growth supplements could be rebranded as “frugality pills” to instantly stop spending.
  • Joe Saul-Sehy (04:57): “Do you, Jesse, have some frugality pills? Because we are talking frugality today. Like, imagine if we could just take a pill and all of a sudden we’re like, no, I’m not going to buy that now.”
• Trivia: Question about the size of the U.S. cattle herd; leads to friendly ribbing and “staking Benjamins” puns (41:11).
• Joe Saul-Sehy: “I love how this Wall Street Journal piece, you know, we took their suggestions and went, yeah, no, thank you. And I think we supersized them.”

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In Summary

• Frugality is less about extreme sacrifice, more about aligning spending with what matters, and not wasting time on penny-pinching that doesn't actually move the financial needle.
• Start by auditing for easy wins—recurring expenses, subscriptions, and food waste.
• Be skeptical of bulk-buying as universal advice; the math—and space—may not add up.
• Focus on big expenses (housing, transportation, food) for highest impact.
• Use short “frugality sprints” or challenges to reset consumption and rediscover what you have.
• Balancing reduction in expenses with ways to increase income is the most effective approach.
• Teach these habits to kids—intentionality and awareness matter early on.

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For More

• Andy Hill’s Book: Own Your Time (pre-order, out January 21, 2026)
• Afford Anything Podcast: Monthly macroeconomic updates
• Personal Finance for Long-Term Investors Podcast: Ask Me Anything episodes and deep dives on topics like mortgages, HSAs, and more.

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For anyone looking to make their money go further without living like a monk, this episode is a practical—and surprisingly fun—guide to frugality, 2025 style.

Transcript

[Kevin Harlan]

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[Joe Saul Sehive]

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[Doug]

He got me invested in some kind of fruit company. And so then I got a call from him saying we don't have to wor. And I said, that's good. One less thing.

Live from the basement of the YouTube headquarters, it's the Stacking Benjamin show.

I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and remember that frugality thing he. Yeah, according to the people who determine what's hot, unlike those jorts your dad insisted on wearing all summer, it's making a comeback. We're talking spending less and living more with our roundtable group of money friends. But that's not all, of course. We're also gonna fire up the stove and cook up another batch of my amazing trivia for our year long competition. And now, here comes a guy who's ready to help us cook up some frugal living tips. It's Joe. Oh, Saul. See?

[Paula Pant]

High.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Hey there, stackers. And happy Friday and Happy December to you. Man, it's getting cold. But you know what? We're bringing the warm. Well, not even the warm, the super hot tips for you today because we're talking frugality. And for that, we've got a fantastic roundtable group of contributors. But first, Doug, how you doing, man?

[Doug]

I don't.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

I just.

[Doug]

The hair's not combing like it used to, Joe. There's just combing both of them. Combing both of them.

[Andy Hill]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Yeah, that's good.

[Doug]

Better luck combing my beard.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

I was gonna say you're showing off because you have two of them left to comb. Mine is all done. Doug and I have three hairs between us on the top of our heads. However, we do have three great contributors, so let's meet them. Let's start off with a woman who is far above Manhattan. This lovely first Friday in December. Paula Pant is here. How are you?

[Paula Pant]

I am fantastic. And on the topic of hair, mine is. It's pulled back in a bun right now, but I think this is a record in terms of how long I've been able to get it. I hit, like, a growth plateau, and then with the right nutrition dialed in and some supplements, I was able to push past the plateau to.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

To do what? To get hair.

[Doug]

Are we still talking about hair?

[Paula Pant]

Yeah, Growth.

[Andy Hill]

Hair.

[Paula Pant]

Yes, Growth pills.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

So are you saying your hair does not grow? Is that what you're trying to say?

[Paula Pant]

Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm saying it kind of. It reaches a certain length and then it stops. But then I, like, changed my nutrition, I changed my diet, and then it started growing again.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Wait a minute, wait a minute. This is crazy talk. Are you saying that with better nutrition and better diet, your body actually operates better? Is that what you're trying to tell us?

[Paula Pant]

That's exactly it. That's exactly it.

[Jesse Kramer]

Think.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

What kind of madcap science is that? That is crazy. We're going to meet the madcap scientist on this podcast on Fridays. He's the man behind personal finance for long term investors. Jesse Kramer's here. How are you, man?

[Jesse Kramer]

Hey, I walked away and I came back and you guys were talking about growth pills. Is that correct?

[Andy Hill]

Nope.

[Doug]

Exactly right.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Not doing it.

[Doug]

Exactly right.

[Jesse Kramer]

Well, I mean, I'm here to talk about madcap science and growth pills. I mean, I'm ready for this episode. No, it's early and.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

But do you.

[Jesse Kramer]

What's up?

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Do you, Jesse, have some frugality pills? Because we are talking frugality today. Like, imagine if we could just take a pill and all of a sudden we're like, no, I'm not going to buy that now.

[Jesse Kramer]

That'd be great. Right, right, right. So, like, you're talking, like, not the official pharmaceutical growth pills, but, like the cheap diy. You can, you know, follow your own online recipe. Growth pills. I'm in for it. I'm in for it.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

That's right. It's good stuff. And the guy who has the, I don't know, how do you segue off of Jesse's growth pills thing? I got no idea.

[Doug]

A guy who has an obnoxious amount of hair.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

He does. Obnoxious amount of hair and an obnoxious amount of good looks. Mr. Andy Hill is here with us from marriage, kids and money. How are you, brother?

[Andy Hill]

I'm Great, as my 13 year old daughter would say. You're really glazing me right now, Joe. Thank you, I appreciate that. That's 13 year old talk.

[Doug]

That's a real thing. I know, I hear that.

[Andy Hill]

You know what I'm talking about, Doug, you know what I'm talking about.

[Doug]

I do, absolutely.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Well, wait a minute. I understand that it may or may not be a real thing, but can anybody. What does it mean, Andy? Is that good? Is that bad?

[Andy Hill]

It is. It means you're like building me up. So thank you. You're glazing me.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

We don't need to build you up because you're amazing and we love marriage, kids and money. And I heard a little bird told me that you may in January have a new book coming out. Say it ain't so.

[Andy Hill]

It is so, my friend, and it is own your time. And I'm very excited about it. For the YouTubers who are watching right here behind me, I've got a nice little visual of it here. And before the show I told the guys that I put it up with like some chewing gum and some duct tape. So if it falls down during the live recording, I think we could all laugh. That would be good for my. My ego.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

See Impala. Andy says science Bedam too. None of us like science except you.

[Doug]

Sounds like he's trying to manufacture a viral moment.

[Jesse Kramer]

Oh, man.

[Andy Hill]

You know what? It's all about the views, Doug. You know, what are you going to do, right? You got to get the attention where you can use.

[Doug]

And the glaze.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Did you see that Stanky Benjamin's episode where Andy Hill had that thing drop behind him? It was amazing. Was incredible.

[Doug]

Blood was gushing everywhere.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Yeah, it was great. But very seriously, Andy, I know you worked very hard to go from being somebody where a corporation owned your time to you owning your own time.

[Andy Hill]

Absolutely. Yeah. And you know, it happened for a good 15 years. I had a corporate employee life. It was good to me during that time. Until it wasn't good to me. You know, it got to that point where I said, oh, I'm married now. I'd like to Spend some more time with her. Oh, we've got kids now. I haven't seen them in a while, so I'd like to spend some more time with them.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

What are their names again?

[Andy Hill]

Exactly. Exactly. And it was those times where I'd be, like, on the show floor at a truck conference or a car conference somewhere in Las Vegas, and it'd be my daughter's seventh birthday, and I'd be sitting there under these fluorescent lights, you know, on a FaceTime call, being like, what am I doing? Why am I. I feel like I've jacked up my priorities here. Of course I'm trying to take care of my family, but can I move in the direction of owning more of my time with these financial moves that I'm making so that I can be a more present parent? Or at least I want to say that I am a family guy. Right. I keep saying I'm a family guy, but am I really prioritizing my time in that fashion? So I wanted to put together this book to kind of talk through that story that I went through from feeling time broke to feeling time wealthy. And a lot of families that I interviewed over the 10 years I've had my podcast are in the story as well, and I'm excited to share it.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

I am so excited we're going to spend a whole 30 or 40 minutes with you in January diving into this so you can mentor our stackers on how to better own their time. It's a great January topic. So I can't wait for that. What. What I love about having you here and the reason I really like having you here today, Andy, is a big piece of this transition. I gotta believe when you decided it was time for you to start working for yourself, like, frugality wasn't a maybe. Like, you had to be frugal, I would think.

[Andy Hill]

Absolutely. And then a big part of that preparation was me, obviously, saving up enough money to make that leap from corporate to solopreneur, to say, okay, even if I completely mess this up, I've got some money set aside, and then I'm going to do it in January of 2020, because nothing bad will happen in 2020. So I've got the money set aside. What's going to go wrong? Boom. Yeah. Talk about frugality moment. March 2020, my contracts that I had set up for my business all went away. I had I live on my savings for a little while. And then, of course, I had that moment of, oh, my God, did you just make the worst mistake for your family? Man? But then, you know, you use your frugality muscles, they all come back and say, well, do I need all of these tools and things that I thought that I needed? Oh, I can really get by by doing a lot less with these types of things. So as a solopreneur, definitely used frugality and that muscle to help me survive that year. And then five years later I'm still standing. So that's great.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

I know. I love how that story has such a happy ending even though the pit in your stomach like, oh God, oh no. What the hell did I do?

[Andy Hill]

Scary moment.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Well, I can't wait to dive into frugality with you, Paula and Jesse. And by the way, for people that aren't here on YouTube, Paula's in the middle of like some movie cubby video or something. Paula, what the hell's going on behind you while we're recording?

[Paula Pant]

I meant to transition to a table that would just have a blank wall behind before we started recording. But then I got caught up in work and I looked at the clock and it was 5:03 and I was like, I need, I need to jump on now. And so I didn't have time to move tables.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Paul is in a train station.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Paula Pant]

So yeah, this is the gym in my building actually that's where I am right now.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

That's fabulous. Should be like I worked out for a whole hour. Worked out my, my jaw muscles. Yeah. Well, Paula is talking frugality. She is in the gym doing this. No studio for her. And Andy's going to help us, Jesse's going to help us. We're going to talk frugality today guys. So buckle up. But before we get started, we got a couple sponsors to help us keep on keeping on so you don't have to pay for any of this roundtable goodness on this Friday. So we're going to hear from them and then Andy, Paula and Jesse are going to dive into helping you live a more frugal existence. Well, this is your stacker. Give a gift that goes far beyond the moment and invest 529 account. Whether it's a child, grandchildren or someone just starting out, you're helping them save for education that could open doors for a lifetime. Invest 529 is a tax advantage way to save for college, trade school or even apprenticeship programs. It's flexible, easy to start and you can contribute any amount, big or small. And because the money can grow tax free, it's a gift that really builds value over time. So instead of giving something that gets used up or set aside. Give the gift that can change a Life. Start an Invest 529 account today. Go to invest529.com to learn more and to get started. Investments involve risk, but results vary. Consult with your financial and tax professionals. Administered by Commonwealth Savers Plan. It's time for Cyber Monday. Dell Technologies biggest sale of the year. Enjoy the lowest prices of the year on select PCs like the Dell 16 plus featuring Intel Core Ultra processors and with built in advanced features, it's the PC that helps you do more, faster plus earn Dell rewards and enjoy many other benefits like free shipping, price match guarantee and expert support. They also have huge deals on accessories that pair perfectly with your Dell PC and make perfect gifts for everyone on your list. Shop [e-mail] deals.

All right, the inspiration for today's piece comes to us from the Wall Street Journal. It is a piece about how frugality is making a comeback. I didn't know, Paula, that frugality was ever dead, but apparently frugality is kind of like fashion trends where all of a sudden people are like, oh, yeah, I remember that well.

[Paula Pant]

I think it goes through cycles, it goes through waves. And prior to the pandemic, we had this bull run. And I think towards the end of it, 2018, 2019, we had been in a good market for a while. People were feeling confident. And then Boom, of course, 2020, everything changed. And then, and then big wild inflation hit. So all of the factors were there to make frugality awesome again.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Make frugality awesome again. She was at the next.

Yeah, it doesn't quite, I don't know. Let's figure out a way. Jesse, I think Paul has gotten somewhere. I mean, this isn't back just because people are thinking frugal's cool. I think it's, we're finally all feeling inflation. Yeah.

[Jesse Kramer]

I think it's make frugality extremely rad. MFER is the acronym. It's a big MFer. That's a big MFer on your hat. Sorry, Joe, I missed your transition. I was just sitting on that joke and I wasn't even, I don't even.

[Andy Hill]

Know what you said.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Do you have any idea? I just had to keep rolling. I said I do think it as, you know, you're looking at economics all the time. I mean, looking at the numbers, this has got to be like Paula suggested, maybe about not just being a fad, but about the fact that inflation seems to be pretty high right now.

[Jesse Kramer]

Yeah. I mean, and even if you. Okay. I think if you actually look at year over year inflation, maybe we are back down in that 3, 4% range. That's like more normal. But just in case anyone's confused out there, the 9 or 10% inflation from two years ago, like, that's still baked into the prices. Prices haven't gone down, it's just that they're not going up as quickly as they were before. And yeah, so I think for a lot of average Americans, their budgets are stretched. And I also think that something goes on in the financial media space that we all participate in in our own ways. And there are these kind of like trending narratives at any given time. And yeah, for a long time now, one of the trending narratives that I've seen has been, you know, stocks are up and bull market this and it's great to be in AI. And so maybe the frugality narrative hasn't been as loud, but I still think there are a lot of people out there for whom life is expensive and having a solid monthly budget is really important and implementing some sort of frugal principles into your life has a lot of benefit. So I don't necessarily see it as a of reason to be worried that this narrative is coming back up in the, in the Wall Street Journal. I just, I do think it's interesting though. I found it to be a really interesting article.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Oh yeah, me too. We're going to dive into it in just a second. But I think, Andy, just to kind of put the stakes here, you know, you're a guy that wanted to own your own time, so you had to be frugal. But for people that are content doing what they're doing, we've all seen the numbers. It looks like health care cost in 2026 for all of us probably going through the roof. It's a time when I think we have to learn to be frugal.

[Andy Hill]

Absolutely. And I think it all comes back to your values too. If you start to look at your money a little bit deeper and you say, okay, is this a time for me to be frugal? And if you want to translate that into like, hey, I want to spend according to my values, just looking at your numbers and just saying, okay, what am I spending on that I don't actually care about? I can work on decreasing that like crazy. And then obviously the stuff that is just the daily grind of like buying the groceries, you know, paying for the gas, that's, that's a little harder to fight. But the lifestyle stuff, we can continue to look at and see what we really need, especially if we're if our income didn't go up that 9%, Jesse, and the 3% and the 4% over the past few years, because that's the reality we're all dealing with.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Can I stick with you for a second, Andy? Because this piece from the Wall Street Journal, and I'll link to it in the show notes, but nobody that's listening to us or hanging out with us on YouTube has to see this or know about it. We'll go through some of these frugal tips they have. One of the early ones, Andy, is diluting their household products, like cutting their cleaners in half and then going half water, half cleaner. Is that frugal or is that a bridge too far?

[Andy Hill]

You know, everybody's situation's different. So that might be effective for somebody in a very low income situation. But I would venture to say the amount of time spent on something like that might be better used on maybe increasing income. You know, if I spent four hours a week diluting my soap or some of the things that are in the article we'll talk about, maybe I could have spent four hours figuring out a way just to make a little bit more money in my life. And that can be as simple as I've found. At least just looking around your house and finding some things that you don't use anymore that maybe have a little bit of value, you could sell them on Facebook, Marketplace, you know, get a little money back in your life, maybe analyzing your budget, looking at some subscriptions that you're not even using anymore, getting rid of those, just finding simple ways that you could use those hours that either decrease the amount of your spending that you don't care about or find ways to like make a little bit more money in your life. Because I feel like those things where we're spending ample amount of hours on ways to save a few bucks feels like that if you just keep going in that direction, that could get to a hard grinding halt of sadness and depression. And spending that time just kind of figuring out a way to increase your income could probably be better spent.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Yeah, Paula, it's funny because B. Wayne hanging out with us said, still can't afford steak. In the piece they talked about a family buying half a cow, like buying bulk meat to beat grocery inflation. This seemed, I don't know, is that a good tip?

[Paula Pant]

Well, in order to do that, you need to have enough square footage to be able to store it. You know, you need a.

Manhattan. The question no, I mean, so it's trade offs. How much are you paying for the extra space, even if it's in your garage or your basement, that is still square footage that you're paying for, and there are still underlying property taxes that you're paying for. And I think this often, whenever you read the frugality advice about shop at Costco and buy in bulk and stock up, I'm like, you know, you need space for that. You can substantially reduce your living space because stores will keep things for you for free if you just don't buy the thing like this. The store's job is to hold onto that inventory until you're ready to use it. Like that's kind of what they do.

[Doug]

Yeah, I like where Paula was going with that. When I read that, Joe, I thought the same thing. I mean, you need not a small chest freezer in your basement. And chest freezers are actually pretty inexpensive on the whole. As appliances go, you can get one relatively inexpensively. But I like your point, Paula, about inventory and who's stocking that inventory. Because, look, we eat steak. I like steak a lot. And there's no question. I look at the numbers on the little sticker that's on the package of meat and think, holy cow, how did we get here? Costco. You know, everybody knows I love Costco. And I'm going to for four New York strips, I'm going to spend like 80 bucks or something like that. And you think, is that is like that $20 steak worth it to me? But in the article, I think it talked about that that person spent about $2,500 for a side of beef. If I buy New York strips, two packages of four twice a month, I haven't spent 2,500 bucks yet for the year. And I didn't have the holding costs. I didn't have my money tied up in that inventory sitting in the chest freezer. I had to go out and buy. And by the way, stakes are only good for about 12 months. If you like, vacuum seal them and put them in your freezer. So suddenly that cost savings. And this, I think, is just analogous to a lot of frugality that we think about in our lives. Sometimes the cost savings have a lot of hidden costs that you don't think about.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Is this where, Jesse, we take some. I think we can look at companies in the way that companies look at things. I know that the companies back in the 80s all of a sudden switch from stocking up on things to this idea of just in time inventory. I was going to ship it as close to the time frame of when it would fly off the shelf so the shelves are as empty as they should possibly be. Is true frugality maybe thinking like a just in time inventory company?

[Jesse Kramer]

Wait, is. Is frugality thinking like a just in time inventory company? I almost. I'm not sure. I almost think the. The opposite. Or if I'm following the analogy where stocking.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Stocking up would be more frugal, I.

[Jesse Kramer]

Guess, because I guess I just think of, like, when I think of frugal habits, I. I do think of, like the one that Doug just referred to. Whether we would call, you know, is it. Is it stacking beef? Are we staking Benjamins? I'm not sure, but whatever Doug was.

[Doug]

Just referring to, that's how it's done, folks. That's how it's done.

[Jesse Kramer]

Okay. Okay.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

But seriously, Jesse's on fire today. Andy. I don't know what the hell's going on.

[Jesse Kramer]

17 months of practice over here. People say I go to Costco and I buy eight months worth of dish soap all at once because it's frugal and it saves me money. And in that way, I think of at least the frugal habit is like finding those ways to buy in bulk or finding those ways to make things last. Whereas more of that just in time approach is like, I'm only going to buy something when I need it because any extra cash I have, I want it to be more productive than simply sitting in my pantry. Right. The bananas that I bought last week, there's no interest on those bananas. In fact, you could make the argument getting really nerdy here, that through things like food waste, like, once we spend money on food, actually it's like a. What's the word I'm looking for? It's a value that. It's like a car. It's a. What kind of asset?

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Depreciating.

[Jesse Kramer]

Depreciating asset. Thank you.

[Andy Hill]

Especially avocados and bananas.

[Jesse Kramer]

Exactly. Avocados. Very big depreciating. So I'm getting nerdy here. But it's interesting to think about what you had just said there, Joe. But in general, frugal habits, probably you have a lot of depreciating inventory in your house.

[Andy Hill]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Which makes me think that that's not particularly frugal. Like, if I'm pre. Spending all this money today for stuff I'm not gonna use for six months, like how. How frugal is that? And then the carrying cost that Paula and Doug are talking about, maybe that's a. I don't know. Maybe that's a. That's a mistake.

[Jesse Kramer]

Mini counter argument. This is a mini soapbox. And then I'll, I'll hand it back over to you guys. One time I was thinking about gasoline and I feel like gasoline is the product that you never, ever, ever buy more of than you actually need. I can't find a reason for someone to stock up on more gas than they truly need. Whereas there are some. The steak story is the perfect example where it's like, wait a second, did that guy just buy way more steak than he ever needed? And therefore he ends up consuming more steak than he otherwise would have and he ends up kind of shooting himself in the foot because it's not that frugal.

[Andy Hill]

After all.

[Jesse Kramer]

There's no way he would have eaten that much steak or spent that much steak on. And so he just, he spent more money than he ever would have if he just approached steak from a normal point of view. And I think there are some products in our lives that lean more towards the gasoline that just like, there's no reason to ever overuse them. And therefore having an inventory of that product could make sense. Whereas there are other products. Candy might be one or chips for me.

[Andy Hill]

Right.

[Jesse Kramer]

I will admit, like crackers, candy, chips, they do not last in my house. And if I were to be like, oh great, three for one Reese's Pieces after Halloween, I'm just going to get a year's worth and put them in the, in the park. Like, what a terrible move. Both frugally and, and diet wise, did.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

We hit a 25% off the day after Halloween when I walked into Albertsons down by my house, 25% off. Jesse Kitkats and I, oh, it was everything I could do to not buy them all.

[Jesse Kramer]

I was going to buy like a left Kit Kat or a right Kit Kat kind of guy.

What do you like the left Kit Kat or the right one better?

[Doug]

I think you're talking about Twix. Oh, you're right, you're confused.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

I'm like, what are you talking about? Right or left? What if I like one of the two in the middle? I don't know, Andy. They bring, they bring up a good story. I'm just watching Paula making that argument. Andy, when it comes to food waste. Jesse mentioned food waste. I got to think that that's a big piece of frugality, especially when you don't know when the next paycheck's coming.

[Andy Hill]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I like the just in time purchasing. You know, I think a lot of the conversation around in this article was, you know, bulk buying or Trying to have your own garden or things like that. And I'm like, the garden thing, at least maybe you would get some personal satisfaction from. But I think if you look into the detail of how much you're going to spend and how much you're going to, like, put together and make sure that the deer in your neighborhood don't eat all of it and you got the right fertilizer, it's like, I don't know how frugal that ends up being. That's why they invented these things called grocery stores. And they're right down. You know, most neighborhoods, they're fairly close to your. Where you live, and hopefully you can go there and buy those things. And so having it all into your one place. I've done this too, in my life where I'm like, you know what? I need a gym in my house. You know, that I'm here all the time. I think that would be very efficient and frugal because I'm here and then I try to do too many things here, and then I run out of space, and then I'm like, you know what, There's a gym down the street that I can just go to, and.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

It'S like podcast from and have people.

[Andy Hill]

Walking behind you the whole time and you can make new friends. Paula. You know, there's people walking right by you right now. So I don't know. I think we sometimes we try to over optimize things a little bit and it ends up being to our detriment. I guess that's my point.

[Paula Pant]

You know, there are two blogs that this reminds me of, so one is J.D. roth actually did the math. I believe it was J.D. i might be misremembering who it was, but I. I'm 90% certain it was J.D. who actually did the math on trying to grow his own vegetables and like, meticulously documented every single expense and came to the conclusion that it's not worth it.

[Doug]

Yeah, they're like $9 tomatoes when you're done.

[Paula Pant]

Yeah, exactly. But he, he has like, the spreadsheets and the data and like, extremely detailed documentation of this experiment.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

I think Chris Mamula did the same thing. Oh, when he was on the show, he was talking about, we brought up gardening, and he was like, oh, God, no, that's. That is not. He said, it's really fun. Chris said, it's. And it's great. And they taste better, by the way, when you grow your own vegetables, they taste so much better. He goes, but nowhere near frugal.

[Paula Pant]

Right? And then the other thing. Do you remember the blog the Simple Dollar by Trent Ham?

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Sure. Much of what Greg McFarlane used to make fun of. Non stop.

[Paula Pant]

Exactly. Because so much of what was in this article reminded me of what was in that blog. You know, where Trent Ham would talk about unscrewing his oven light in order to save on the electricity that in the bulb of the oven light he would bisect his dryer sheets so that that way he gets twice the value out of every dryer sheet.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

I mean renting seat OR A borrowing CDs from the library and ripping them and downloading them so you didn't have to have a streaming service.

[Doug]

I totally did that. I absolutely did that. In the early days when you could have like recordable CDs. 100% did that.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Yeah. Well, you were taping pennies to the thing and getting the. The 10 CDs for one penny deal too. Wow.

[Andy Hill]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Changing your name 18 times of a certain age. Oh yeah, right.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

It wasn't Andy Hill, it was Andy Hill, Andrew Hill, you know, bmg, I think it was.

[Andy Hill]

That was the one I took advantage.

[Jesse Kramer]

Of for a while.

[Doug]

Yeah. Columbia House. Oh yeah, yeah.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Had all of them. Is there any way, because I have this on my list. Is there any way we make gardening to table? Like do we make that offset food cost or. Or not really? We all in agreement that that's a lot of fun and good, but not necessarily frugal.

[Andy Hill]

Unless you own a restaurant where you can charge $65 per plate, then gardening to table is probably working out for me.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Get a new one of those restaurants in Texarkana.

[Andy Hill]

There you go.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Just looks really good. We spent a lot of time taking the tips that were in this piece and talking about why it wouldn't work. So let's kind of reframe this just briefly. What's a good frugal tip that you have, Andy?

[Andy Hill]

Well, well, as we started that, I really think that we do have quite a bit of waste depending on when we're in this situation in our lives. We're looking at our money and saying, okay, what am I actually spending on? The first thing that I find that a lot of people have is just like stuff they're spending money on that they don't even use anymore. Whether that be we're in the era of subscriptions. That's like an easy one to pull out of the tree. Just to say, okay, how many of these streaming services that you have that you're not currently watching a show on? Can you save 10 bucks, 20 bucks a month. And how does that add up over the year? That's like an easy, frugal kind of look at my budget and make sure I'm not wasting money. I feel like that's a good use of your time. If you spent one hour doing that, the return on your investment versus diluting your soap could be a lot higher. That's just an easy, quick tip that I found personally and through a lot of people I've spoken to.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

We did that too. Andy, Cheryl and I just having a weekly meeting and walking through our banking app. And now Monarch Money just looking and going, oh, do we really need that? Did we need, did we use that? Do we have fun with that? Like, no. Yeah. Great tip, Jesse. How about for you? What's your favorite frugal tip?

[Jesse Kramer]

One that we, I mean, I suppose I'd done a couple times before, but then we picked it up especially when we were getting ready to have our baby. And then we've kind of continued on since then. Is making intentionally big meals with the intent to then freeze like half of it for some future date. So especially with like, I don't know, some big pasta and sauce meal or chili is another really good example where you can make in bulk in some sort of big pot or something like that and then just freeze some. I guess if you focus especially on cheaper recipes, chili is one that comes to mind. Okay, that in itself is frugal. But then you're frugal with your time, right, Andy? Owning your time. You're doing the same cooking anyway with a bigger portion, and then you just end up eating more from home cooked meals, which is, you know, almost always going to be cheaper than, than dining out.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Taking that tip of batching your food, Cheryl and I just downloaded an app which, and there's several of these I found out, which when you put something in your refrigerator, you then just very quickly just, boom, put down what it is in the fridge. It takes far less time than I thought it would take. And now I have like this inventory of what I have. And then I find now that I'm using up that inventory before I go and buy new stuff, which is super helpful. Paula, you got the last one before we go to our amazing trivia contest.

[Paula Pant]

Well, actually, piggybacking off of what you said, what I was going to say is shop what you already have. Oh, shop your fridge, shop your closets, shop. Like if you. So many of us have all of these things piled up over time, whether it's, you know, bags of protein powder or old clothes that are in the back of our closet that we forgot that we owned or old shoes shopping, those hidden things that exist in the corners of your closets or your pantry. And the way to actually adhere to that is take, I don't know, a week or two weeks or a month. You know, take a particular period of time and commit to not buying anything because so much of the time we forget about those things because we keep replenishing. But if you have some temporary buy nothing periods of time, then it forces you to interface with those things that you've buried and forgotten about.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Paula, we don't have a big freezer. We have a normal sized, free, actually a little bit small freezer. But Cheryl and I decided to do this challenge where we weren't going to buy anything new until the freezer was empty. And I thought it would take a week. It took us over a month. It took us maybe six weeks. Like there was so much buried stuff hidden in that freezer and not the most fun eating that six weeks. But it became quite a game, you know, just going, oh, okay, let's see if we can get this done.

[Doug]

Were you googling recipes for freezer burn shrimp Joe?

[Joe Saul Sehive]

At the end of it.

It'S still got it. I remember we had some cauliflower pizza, cauliflower crust pizza that was freezer burned on the top. But it's still, it's still packed upon.

[Andy Hill]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

All right, guys, at the halfway point of every show and no exception today, we take a pause from this scintillating discussion for our year long trivia competition. This thing is a barn burner right to the end. We got only three weeks left, guys. Three weeks left of this competition and we don't know who's gonna win. Doug, what's our score with three weeks to go?

[Doug]

Well, right now it's gotten a lot closer than I think anybody anticipated, largely because Paula had some substitutes sitting in for her throughout the. Throughout the fall, the later summer months and the fall which has made things much closer. Paula has 10 1/2 points. OG is at 12 points, and Jesse has what could be construed as a solid lead at 13 and a half points. But with three weeks to go, it's up for grabs. Anybody can take this thing.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

It's going to be tight. Andy, you're playing on behalf of OG that means you've got a real mission today, man. The good news is you get to go second. Jesse's got to go first. The other good news, wait a minute. What was Paula score? Does she have a shot still Paula's.

[Doug]

At ten and a half, and so it's going to be pretty.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

She could tie.

[Doug]

She could tie.

[Andy Hill]

How do the half points work? What is, what is with the half points?

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Long story.

[Doug]

Yeah.

That was an ugly moment in trivia history.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Long, long, long story, Andy. It was not. Not our finest moment. I guess I'll learn this next one, Andy, will be our finest moment. And that's Doug doing today's trivia. Doug, you ready?

[Doug]

Sure am, Joe. Hey there, Stackers. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And all this talk about frugality has me thinking about beef prices. If you've been to a grocery store lately, you'll know that. That prices are skyrocketing. I love this idea of buying half a cow, though, which prompted me to look up this trivia question. As of January 1st of this year, the USDA National Agricultural Statistics Service reported that herds are at their lowest inventory in the US since 1951. So here. You guys are pros. I probably don't have to instruct you on this, but just follow me here. When I say low, you. You guys say, how low is it? Ready? Head of cattle count are so low.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

How low is it?

[Doug]

Funny you should ask. That is my trivia question. In millions of heads of cattle, how low was the inventory of cattle in the USA earlier this year? I'll be back right after I find out how they raised just half a cow to sell it later.

[Andy Hill]

I mean, how.

[Doug]

How would half a cow even work? Which half?

[Joe Saul Sehive]

That could be very tough. That's a tough science experiment there, Doug. Yeah, tougher. The parents of half a cow. Let's begin, Jesse, with you. Head of cattle in the United States as of January of this year.

[Jesse Kramer]

Yeah. No. No idea. This is one of those ones where I think it's less than the heads of humans. But is it 1 million? Is it 10 million? Is it 100 million?

[Joe Saul Sehive]

You're answering in millions.

[Jesse Kramer]

Okay, understood. I'm going to say that there's.

20% the number of cows, that there are people, 350 million people. I'm going to say 70. 70 is my answer.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

70 million.

[Jesse Kramer]

Correct. 70 million.

[Andy Hill]

All right.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Andy, what are you thinking about that?

[Andy Hill]

I think people eat a lot of beef in our country. So I'm going to go a little higher. I'm going to say like 120 million.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

120 million. And Paula.

[Paula Pant]

So I agree that people eat a lot of beef, but I think a lot of it is imported.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Oh, from Argentina.

[Paula Pant]

Yes, from Argentina and other places. Japan. Kobe beef wagyu beef. There's all kinds. So does it have to be a poll number or can it be a decimal point?

[Joe Saul Sehive]

There can be a decimal point.

[Paula Pant]

All right, then I'm going to take the under and go with 69.9999.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

What the hell, Paula?

I'll just go 69.9. I think we can stop there. All right, Paula's locked in at 69.9 million. Jesse's got 70 million and he's got the upside at 120 million. Who's going to win? We'll find out in just a moment.

[Kevin Harlan]

Kevin Harlan here. Tonight, the NBA on Prime crew and I are back with another spectacular NBA doubleheader. The action starts with one of the best rivalries in sports as Luka Doncic and the Los Angeles Lakers take on the Boston Celtics with Jaylen Brown. Then Cooper Flagg and the Mavs take on SGA and the Oklahoma City Thunder. It all comes your way tonight on Prime. And if you're not a Prime member, that's not a problem. Sign up for a free 30 day trial to get started today. The Lakers and Celtics, the Mavs and Thunder coverage starts tonight at 6:30pm Eastern only on Prime. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com Amazon prime for details.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

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Jesse, you kick this off by saying it was 70 million. How you feeling now that Paula capped you at the kneecaps?

[Jesse Kramer]

I mean, I was feeling better until Pee Fop Doodle laughed at me in the chat.

I mean, I've still got no clue. I've got no clue.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Pfop doodles like 70. How cute, Andy. 120 million. Everybody else thought it was much lower. You feeling good?

[Andy Hill]

No, I feel like even more of a. Of a joke for Pfop Doodle, you know? What are you going to do?

[Doug]

I don't know.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

I think it could be something there.

[Andy Hill]

You just put it out there. You got to make a guess, right?

[Joe Saul Sehive]

We eat a lot of beef. We do, Paula.

[Paula Pant]

I think it's PF OpDoodle. Like personal finance operations doodle. Personal finance operations Doodle.

[Andy Hill]

I like it.

[Paula Pant]

Or maybe operator.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

I didn't mean. How do you feel about PF OpDoodle's name? How do you feel about your guess?

[Paula Pant]

About my guess? About 69.9. Repeating. You know, I. I'm actually feeling pretty good about it. I don't. I don't want to jinx myself, but I feel good.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

89 feeling goods in a row can't be wrong. Doug, what's the.

[Doug]

Is.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Is. Is Paula gonna. Gonna win this thing?

[Doug]

Well, I'm not gonna tell you that right away, but I will say, hey, there, stackers. I'm beef lover and guy who's the Ferdinand of this podcast. Joe's mom's neighbor, Duck. Cattle herds are the lowest they've been since 1951, which is why I thought we'd ask just how low is low? How many head of cattle in millions is the size of the USA herd? Well, I'll tell you this. It's 33.3 million fewer than what Andy guessed. It's 16.8 million more than what Paula guessed and just 16.7 million more than what Jesse guessed.

[Paula Pant]

Because.

[Doug]

Because the correct answer is 86.7 million, making Jesse our winner. And he's.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

He's.

[Doug]

He's more or less locked it up. Joe.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Well, that takes him to 14 and a half. Means OG's got to win the last two in a row to tie it up.

[Andy Hill]

Yeah, that's impressive.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

I know. That would give him 15, and he would. He would win.

[Doug]

OG's at 12 right now.

[Andy Hill]

Gets a Big Mac after that.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Oh, that's it.

[Jesse Kramer]

We, we got a 12 ounce flank steak going to PF op doodle straight from me to you. I will buy you an.

You can have a big glass of milk with it.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Jesse's like, lol this PF updle. That's funny. Nice job, Jesse. Congratulations.

[Jesse Kramer]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Jesse's only had to cheat like how many times, Doug? 4. To win this thing he did, he.

[Doug]

Flat out brazenly cheated four times.

[Paula Pant]

I am so thrilled that a member of the coalition to defeat OG it looked looks as though he will emerge victorious.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Paula, let's just focus on you for a second. All you had to do was ignore your gut one time and say 70.1111111. That's all you had to do.

[Paula Pant]

It is so statistically improbable how my gut can be wrong 100% of the time.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

No. What's even more worrisome is that you trust your gut 100 of the time. At some point you just go, oh, if my gut says this, I would.

[Paula Pant]

Just do the opposite.

[Doug]

That's what George Costanza. Did it work for him?

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Yeah. There's more cows in Idaho than people. PF OpDoodle says. All right, let's dive into the second half of this conversation because, you know, we talked about our best frugality tips. But Andy, let's talk about, really, let's get a little bit strategic about our frugality. Is it grow the gap, meaning the gap between expenses or income, or is it ruthless expenses first and then try to grow income after we've figured out how to live a frugal lifestyle? Like, given those two scenarios, do you try to earn more and lock in your spending first, or do you try to get really frugal first and then grow your income?

[Andy Hill]

I do think conscious spending is easier in the beginning, but then coming up with some new side hustle or a new business idea or things like that, and that can be done pretty quickly, I would say in an afternoon, if you're really looking at your expenses and saying, where is it going now? Some of the bigger decisions on the frugality note, like, is my house too big? You know, those are some big questions that you'd have to work. And that's not an afternoon. You know, that's like, hey, I planned for a family of four and we had one kid, but we've got a 3,000 square foot house and we don't really need all the space. Those are big decisions, but those can be the biggest changes when it comes to growing that gap. Like your housing you know, do we have too much car? Are we spending too much? And if we go back to the groceries thing, like, groceries can be a big part of the expenses. Like one switch that my wife and I made, whatever five, seven years ago, they built an Aldi near where we lived. We switched to that, and, man, it is not that much different at all from where we were going to Kroger. And we're sitting saving so much more money just for those everyday expenses, you know, those top three things, housing, transportation, food, if you can hit those, those make a big difference. But, yeah, on the long term, finding ways to grow the gap for your income, it has to be a part of the conversation when it comes to this frugality conversation. And the best place to earn money, in my opinion, is the place you're already making money. So if you're making money at your employer, figure out a way that those folks can eventually pay you a little bit more for what you're doing, whether that's overtime or commissions or bonus or, you know, figuring out a way to prove your worth there so you can get progressive raises. And if that's not possible there, then, yeah, maybe figure out a way you can earn a little bit more money with the side hustle, something you're passionate about, and eventually move towards that and long term, where you're being able to not only make more money, but also own more of your time down the road.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Yeah, when we were neighbors, you would extol the virtues of Aldi. Maybe I would say once a week with me, and I go, whatever. Sounds great. Sounds fantastic. And then we got one. After I moved here to Texarkana and I went in for the first time, even after you told me the whole two years you were lived right down the street from me, I finally went into one. I'm a.

I am such a. I should have hit up Aldi.

[Andy Hill]

Some of those grocery stores are super pricey. And, like, if you're just going there for your everyday stuff, you know, like the, you know, it doesn't always have to be the fancy food that you want to get or whatever, but most of your staples you can get there, and it's a lot less. And this is not an Aldi commercial or anything, but whatever the equivalent of that is in your neighborhood. There's one of those, like, find that place that you can get most of your stuff for a lot less.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Paula, do you start off with earn more or save more?

[Paula Pant]

Well, to your original question about grow the gap. Yeah, I start with grow the gap, but I Don't think that that's incompatible with what Andy just said. Andy, what you just described is growing the gap. Because there are two ways to grow the gap. You either spend less or you earn more, or you do a combination of the two. And if you spend an afternoon just picking the low hanging fruit, boom. All right, you focused on growing the gap and you have massively grown the gap in one afternoon. And then you can focus on growing the gap through the earn more side of the equation. But I think if you start with the framework of how do I grow the gap? Like, what is the delta between income and expenses and how do I make that delta as wide as possible? If you start with that framework and then ask yourself what is the next step to do from that point forward? That's the mindset.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

You'll find some low hanging fruit fairly quickly. Yeah, like, you ask yourself that question. Everybody who's listening to us thinks of something immediately that is like, oh, there's that thing. That's a two second move. That would save me some money. Jesse, you're nodding your head.

[Jesse Kramer]

Yeah, I think the best thing about the low hanging fruit is that it's on sale at Aldi, so you'll pick it up right there.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Oh, my God, Doug. What is up with Jesse?

[Doug]

I don't know why I'm even here today. What do you need me for?

[Jesse Kramer]

Oh, man, I can't believe none of you pounced on that. You know, like a good deal at Aldi. You gotta pounce on them.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Aldi. If you want to sponsor this podcast, you can see how good we are at just tying it in.

[Andy Hill]

I think their prices are too loaded to spend money on advertising.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Probably. Bummer.

[Jesse Kramer]

They rely on us, Andy. They rely on us.

[Andy Hill]

Yes.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Right, right.

[Jesse Kramer]

No, I, I really like tackling this question and I think that lowering the expenses, focusing on the expenses side is definitely the best use of your time in the short run. Like, you know, if someone said, I need to fix my personal, my budget today or tomorrow, it's like, okay, you, you gotta look at your expenses and you gotta figure out what you can trim out of it. But that trimming. And this goes back to what Andy was saying earlier about, like, when you're diluting your dish soap, there's almost so much diluting you can do and then you're done. Similarly, there's just only so much you can cut out of your budget and then you're done. So spend a weekend to cut, trim the fat out of your budget. And then after that, if you want to continue Growing the gap. I think you have to focus on the income side and there's no easy thing to do on the income side for most of us other than get a new certification, find your way to a promotion, potentially. Consider job hopping. I mean all these things take time. If it was really easy to make more money, I think a lot of people would be making more money. It's not really easy, so. So you have to take your time and find your path forward.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Jesse at the beginning of the year I flew out to Las Vegas and spoke with Alex Hermosi and he can certainly make making more money sound super easy. All you gotta do is boom, boom, boom, boom, right? But every point that he made was what you talked about, which was get a certification. If you're working in a retail environment, you like it, that's great. If it fits your lifestyle, that's great. But you could probably go take some part time class just for a few weeks, gain a certifications for something that you'd love to do and almost 2x your income overnight.

[Jesse Kramer]

Yeah, I think you can. And it's very doable. Like there's a difference maybe between like simple and easy because I truly think it is simple. I think there are a lot of simple paths to increasing your income. I'm not sure any of them are easy. Like if you already feel like you've got kids at home, your day job is really busy, you're just not sure where in the day you're going to find this time to go out and get this associate's degree or the certification or whatever it may be. That's where it becomes hard. It can be both simple and hard. And I think that's probably the way that most of these paths are.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Andy, when you brought up looking at the tough things, the home and the automobile, have you ever had to go through that and thought about, you know, what, what if we get rid of a car? Made the hard choice?

[Andy Hill]

Yeah, absolutely. I think one thing that we did in the neighborhood that we live in and you know, Joe, because we're neighbors at one point, there's an opportunity for you just to continue doing this. Lifestyle inflation, especially when it comes to family, you know, families around here, you know, so we have a house that fits for our family. But yeah, you know, there's something in the back of my brain all the time and I don't know what it is. Maybe it's just the society we're in or just the neighborhood that I'm in. Bring like, well, if I worked harder and I made more Money, then I could upgrade this thing, you know, give my kids a bigger room or, you know, I've always wanted a bigger office, or, you know, I could have that gym here, you know. But unless you have those conversations, like, Paula, if you had those conversations with yourself and just say, what is enough? What's contentment for me? What is. What is my enough point? Having those conversations with yourself and figuring out, no, this is just fine, and are there other solutions for those types of things that are out of this house that I can go do that won't require me to upgrade everything? So I think there's a lot of, like, right. Sizing opportunities or downsizing opportunities. Do I need a new car? No, you don't need a new car. You can use a gently used car. Can you use this car for 10, 15 years? Does it look as cool as the new ones? No, but who cares? Like, you're more comfortable, you're more content with your life. You're not feeling strapped all the time. So those bigger ones, the housing, the transportation, the food. Yeah. I mean, you joked about the Aldi thing, but there's a lot of people that think going to Aldi's, like, for poor people or something like that, so they don't want to have that view of themselves. So a lot of it is, like, societal, like lifestyle inflation, all these sort of keeping up with the Joneses kind of ideas. If you can kind of say, you know what, I'm in my 40s now. I don't really care what people think, which I'm trying to, I'm working on right now, then you can have a lot better opportunity to stick with the things that really matter to you. And those big three are a big part of the puzzle.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

There are huge. Paula, did you ever have to look at your housing, your automobile expenses?

[Paula Pant]

Yeah, I mean, absolutely. Those were the primary things that I targeted in order to save money. Because housing in particular is such a major line item in almost everybody's budget. I. I, for five years, had zero out of pocket housing expenses. And doing that by virtue of house hacking, doing that in my 20s literally changed my life. Like, that's. I'm not trying to be overly dramatic when I say that that was what gave me money to invest while I was in my 20s, and that has had a compounding effect that has positively impacted my life so far.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

You're doing that right now, aren't you? Just moving into the gym?

[Paula Pant]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Think. Think of all of the electricity that I'm saving by. By just podcasting out of here.

[Doug]

You got a great shower there. You got a snack bar. I mean, it solves a lot of problems.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

I'm just looking at some of the comments. Melissa says one of my employers offered house upgrades, car upgrades. I don't know that I understand. Melissa. What. What she's talking about. Melissa, are you talking about that you upgraded your car, you upgraded your house because of the fact that you had.

[Doug]

A. I think she's trying to say that she witnessed her employer doing that. That they were constantly upgrading their house or upgrading the lifestyle creep. The lifestyle creep.

[Andy Hill]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Good stuff. I want to ask about this idea of frugal sprints versus permanent lifestyle design. Andy, do you guys practice any of these frugal sprints with your family where you do things like we talked about just before the break? The freezer challenge?

[Andy Hill]

Yeah, my wife and I was going to jump in on that. My wife and I call it refrigerator challenge. When it's like, okay, do we have a lot of these leftover containers or things like that that we've maybe we went to a restaurant and we took the takeaway from our kids not eating all the meal and then we put it in there, and then we all of a sudden, look, man, our refrigerator is full of stuff. Why are we going out again? Or why are we going to the grocery store? Let's do a refrigerator challenge. Let's clean this thing out. And yeah, like you said, sometimes by the day, six or seven, it's like, okay, I don't really want to eat like six packs of hummus again here, you know, But I guess I'll make meal. But yeah, I mean, it also feels cleansing. It feels like you have utilized the resources that you have within your house and you're not wasting. Because I feel bad when I waste things or I throw out food in the garbage can. It feels like I am throwing money in the garbage can. And that is not something that I like to do. And luckily, I have a wife that is feels the same way where it's like, no, let's use the stuff we have. And it just feels right. Honestly, it just does. And the same point that Paula made up earlier, where if we look inside our house for the thing that we're about to buy on Amazon, say, I want to buy this thing. Wait a second. Do I have something like that in my house already that I haven't used or I haven't even taken out of the box or, you know, I think if we can think, what do I have in my house first? And then maybe the second Thought is like, what can I buy used instead of brand new? And then go to new can have that sort of cascading effect. That could be helpful.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

We just even started thinking about Andy in, in my house. Can I borrow it?

[Andy Hill]

Yeah. There you go. Even better. And a great opportunity for a connection for a friend. You know, like we're in this era of loneliness and isolation. Like, go talk to your neighbor and say, can I borrow that thing again?

[Joe Saul Sehive]

More crazy talk. I gotta talk to somebody.

[Andy Hill]

I have to talk. No way.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

What are we talking about? Frugal sprints. Jesse, in your house, you guys do any of the frugal sprints?

[Jesse Kramer]

To be honest with you, we haven't. Or at least none that I can really think of. It's more of just trying to monitor the budget on a monthly basis and when things get a little out of hand, just reining it back in or having some conversations with each other before we choose to spend any sort of big dollar items.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

But none of the no spend challenges. None of that.

[Jesse Kramer]

Not really. No. No. But I will say the one thing I thought was really interesting because it crossed my mind earlier and then I was really glad that Andy brought it back up is this interesting fact how frugality almost has this like slight moral ethical bit to it too, because of that feeling of being wasteful. You know, I think a lot of us who have frugal tendencies, there is that, you know. Okay, well here, here's an example for you, Joe. Is there a sprint in my house other than me cleaning up other people's plates? That is the frugal sprint in our house is that someone has left has extra food on their plate. You can't waste it, so Jesse's going to eat it. So that's the one version of a frugal sprint we've done. But no, I just think it's interesting because we all know about this whole money's more than numbers. It's really about psychology. And I think that moral ethical element of frugality is really interesting. Not that we have to chase down that path at all, but it's worth bringing up.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

I just noticed that Jesse changed his subtitle to Aldi Associate.

[Jesse Kramer]

I did, I did. Purveyor of the low hanging fruit.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

That is again, Aldi, if you got a few bucks. And I know Andy to your point, maybe not, but maybe not. Paula, spending sprints or frugal sprints? Not spending sprints. You were a wild spending spree called Vegas when you live there.

[Paula Pant]

I mean, sometimes I do go on spending sprints yeah. But in terms of a frugal sprint, for me, the big thing is groceries because it's so easy for the inventory to just go to be off. Right. Like you buy too many groceries one week and then suddenly you've. You've got to eat the stuff or it's going to go bad and you don't have any more space in your fridge. You've run out of space in the freezer. That's the thing more than anything else that I'm trying to modulate because it's so, you know, it doesn't take a whole lot for the inventory to just be off.

[Andy Hill]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Andy, one more question for you. Have you involved your kids at all in any of your frugality exercises?

[Andy Hill]

Yeah, I think what we try to do with the kids is have them practice intentionality with their spending, too. They have figured out ways through conversations with my wife and I to earn money here at the house and then earn money outside of the house as well. And then with that, we have them work on utilizing it in specific ways. So spending, saving, giving and investing and then kind of breaking it down to those categories. And we even give my daughter a clothing allowance per month. And this helps her to see how much she has and then be intentional with her spending. Save up when she wants to buy bigger things. And it's amazing how if you do this early enough, it actually works. And she is so massively responsible. I'm so proud of her for all that she's doing right now. And she's just actually showing us the way, really, Because I end up overspending sometimes and I'm like, dang, I need to be more like my daughter and actually sticking within the budget. So I think that if you start those conversations early, they can really be helpful.

[Jesse Kramer]

Helpful.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

What a fantastic discussion. I love how this Wall Street Journal piece, you know, we took their suggestions and went, yeah, no, thank you. And I think we. I think we supersized them. I guess that's another marketing thing, isn't it? We bought more scruby and frugal. I'm going to supersize it. I don't know what's another term for that? We made it better. All right, let's find out what each of you are doing. Let's start with our guest of honor. Andy, you've got a pre sale, a pre sale goal, I know, for the book. And people can be first in line to get it. So book comes out, I believe. Is it January 21st? I don't have the date in front of Me.

[Andy Hill]

You got it right, man. You have a stellar memory. Yes, January 21st, own your time comes out. You can pre order it on Amazon, Barnes and Noble. And yes, we have a pre order goal of 500 by January 21st. I think I have a goal thermometer right over there. I can't show it on camera, but we're at 151. So if anybody wants to support me on the goal, that'd be great. But the book is all about. It's for families who want to own more of their time. They're feeling pressed financially, they're feeling pressed time wise. They say, wow, does life really need to feel this way? And through our conversations today, I think we even discovered just with some intentionality and some focus on where your money's going and then growing that gap, as Paula said, you can really start to realize that you can own more of your time progressively. This isn't an overnight thing. But over time, you can really say, wow, I've gone from feeling time broke to time wealthy. And that's what we're trying to explore in the book.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

What a great way to start your year, too. I mean, it's the end of January, it shows up in the mail, and now you're on the attack, beginning your 2026 on the right foot. Paula, what's going on this December at Afford Anything?

[Paula Pant]

Well, it's the first Friday of the month, and on the first Friday of every month, I do a macroeconomic update. You know, what's happening in the wider economy and how is that affecting you and your wallet? It that is what every first Friday episode is all about. We talk about the jobs report, inflation data, all the big macro factors.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

And then you take that macro factor and then the inflation and get frugal.

[Paula Pant]

We take the macro and make it micro. Take the macro and then talk about how it impacts you and your family. That is at the Afford Anything podcast.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Where finer podcasts are found wherever finer podcasts are found, like the Personal Finance for Long Term Investors podcast. Jesse, what's on the calendar for you this fine December next week?

[Jesse Kramer]

Well, actually, just a couple days ago, an episode with Andy came out. It's awesome. You should go tune in. And then next week, one of our Ask Me Anythings comes out. I tackle a question about the different lengths of mortgages, which now more than ever, apparently, now there's a 50 year mortgage on the table. And I also do a deep dive into HSA accounts, deeper than I've ever gone before. Because here's a pop quiz question for all you listeners, what happens to an HSA account when you die? Because it's actually much worse than I assumed it would be. And anyway, so a couple cool deep dive ask me anything questions.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Dun dun dun. You got to listen to find out. That's the Personal Finance for Long Term Investors podcast, where also where finer podcasts are found. All right, big thanks to our YouTube friends for joining us. You guys rocked as usual. We appreciate you so much. We record these Monday afternoons most of the time. So if you show up on YouTube on Mondays, if you get the 201 newsletter, we'll email you and tell you exactly when we're recording every week. That's stacky benjamin.com 201 to subscribe. It's always free and it's always really, really good stuff. Doug, you've got it from here, man. What should we take away from today's episode?

[Doug]

Well, I guess I'm driving the bus. Here's what we should have learned today, Joe. First, take some advice from Andy Hill. The best place to find more money is where you're already employed. Hey, Andy, not for nothing, but is embezzlement spelled with two z's or just one?

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Nope, probably not.

[Doug]

Second, that's what I got out of what he said. Second, don't forget when Jesse told us about staking Benjamins quote, unquote of the quote of the year right there. Sometimes it's better to have your extra cash in your bank account instead of in your pants. I think that's a direct quote.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

What do you say? Nope, not.

[Doug]

Not get that one wrong. But the big lesson, don't ask Joe's mom about raising half a cow. She'll make jokes about raising half a man. Really, Ma? I mean, he's sitting right here. So what if he can't operate a chainsaw or change a fuel filter in an 83 El Camino like I can. He's doing his best, Ma.

This show is the property of SB Podcasts, LLC, Copyright 2025, and is created by Joe Saul Sehive. Joe gets help from a few of our neighborhood friends. You'll find out about our awesome [e-mail] along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello.

[Joe Saul Sehive]

Oh, yeah.

[Doug]

And before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don't take advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And we'll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show.

[Jesse Kramer]

Sa.