Is Any Expense Really "Worth It"? (with Leisa Peterson) SB1682

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Is Any Expense Really 'Worth It'?" (SB1682)

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Stacking Benjamins Show
• Episode: "Is Any Expense Really 'Worth It'?" (SB1682)
• Release Date: May 14, 2025
• Hosts: Joe Saul-Sehy and OG
• Guest: Lisa Peterson, Author of Money Catalyst and Founder of the Mindful Millionaire Brand

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Introduction

In this insightful episode of The Stacking Benjamins Show, hosts Joe Saul-Sehy and OG engage in a meaningful conversation with financial expert Lisa Peterson. The episode delves deep into evaluating expenses, understanding personal financial values, and fostering a mindset of abundance over mere frugality.

Guest Introduction: Lisa Peterson

Lisa Peterson, a seasoned financial planner with over three decades of experience, introduces herself as the mind behind the Mindful Millionaire brand and the author of Money Catalyst. Her journey into reimagining financial literacy was profoundly impacted by a life-threatening event—a mass shooting at her doctor's office—which compelled her to reassess her relationship with money and prioritize what truly matters.

Main Discussion: Money Mindset and Abundance

Shifting from Frugality to Abundance

The core of the discussion centers around the balance between being frugal and appreciating life's moments. Lisa narrates a parable from her book featuring a character named Mirabel, who undergoes a transformation in her approach to money after experiencing life in Paris.

• Quote: "Mirabel realizes that experiencing beauty and feeling alive is what truly makes us feel wealthy." (Timestamp: 28:19)

Lisa emphasizes that while financial responsibility is crucial, it should not overshadow the joy and fulfillment derived from life's experiences. This shift from a scarcity mindset to one of abundance encourages individuals to evaluate the true worth of their expenses beyond mere cost.

Personal Transformation and Financial Literacy

Lisa shares her personal struggles and how her husband's battle with cancer further influenced her understanding of financial well-being. This vulnerability adds depth to her teachings, illustrating that financial planning is inherently linked to emotional and psychological health.

• Quote: "The more we understand our relationship with money, the happier our lives are going to be." (Timestamp: 12:29)

Insights from Money Catalyst

Money Catalyst blends fiction and nonfiction to explore the emotional and psychological facets of financial decision-making. Through storytelling, Lisa makes complex financial concepts accessible and relatable, encouraging readers to introspect and redefine their financial goals.

• Quote: "I couldn't play into this self-help thing. It was way more complicated than that." (Timestamp: 21:20)

The Role of Personal Stories

Lisa highlights the importance of real-life experiences in shaping one's financial mindset. By weaving personal anecdotes into her narrative, she underscores that understanding and addressing financial struggles are essential steps toward achieving true abundance.

Practical Strategies for Financial Well-being

Embracing the Power of "No"

Drawing from her daughter's experience in content creation, Lisa discusses the significance of being comfortable with rejection as a means to secure fair compensation.

• Quote: "When you ask for a raise, are we all afraid of hearing no? Because we're never going to know the ceiling if we don't push it." (Timestamp: 37:33)

Aligning Financial Goals with Personal Values

The hosts and Lisa explore how aligning financial decisions with personal values leads to a more fulfilling and balanced life. This alignment ensures that spending supports long-term happiness rather than short-term gratification.

• Quote: "Money is literally there to make sure that we have a roof over our heads, you know, a car to drive, food to eat. That's the most important thing about money." (Timestamp: 28:19)

Critique of Alternative Investments

A substantial part of the discussion critiques the rise of alternative investments, especially amidst stock market volatility. The hosts express skepticism towards products promising high returns with minimal risk, labeling them as potential marketing gimmicks that prey on investor fears.

• Quote: "If there was a person out there who could always pick the stock market in advance, that person would manage all the money for all the people. Right?" (Timestamp: 53:59)

Emphasizing Efficient Markets

OG and Doug advocate for sticking with traditional investment strategies, emphasizing the efficiency of markets where information is uniformly accessible and priced in. They caution listeners against chasing elusive alternative investment promises that defy market principles.

• Quote: "There is not a thing that exists that provides you with X return but Y volatility. You can't have bank security, guaranteed availability of your money tomorrow by the FDIC, insurance, and small cap value returns of 13% a year." (Timestamp: 56:32)

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with a reaffirmation of aligning financial practices with personal values and long-term goals. Lisa Peterson's insights encourage listeners to evaluate their spending habits critically, ensuring that every expense contributes meaningfully to their overall well-being and happiness.

Notable Quotes

• Lisa Peterson: "What if we don't have it all figured out as we think we do?" (Timestamp: 16:41)
• OG: "The more I give, the easier it is for me to manifest more." (Timestamp: 29:44)
• Lisa Peterson: "Money is literally there to make sure that we have a roof over our heads, you know, a car to drive, food to eat. That's the most important thing about money. Not the accumulation of money as the joy in and of itself." (Timestamp: 28:19)

Final Thoughts

This episode of The Stacking Benjamins Show offers a profound exploration of the intricate relationship between spending, saving, and personal fulfillment. Lisa Peterson's blend of personal anecdotes and practical advice provides listeners with actionable strategies to reassess their financial priorities, fostering a mindset that values abundance and meaningful experiences over mere economic gain.

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Remember: Before making any financial decisions, it's always recommended to consult with a certified financial advisor to tailor strategies to your individual needs.

Transcript

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

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[OG]

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[Lisa Peterson]

Nervous?

[Doug]

Yes.

[Lisa Peterson]

First time?

[OG]

No.

[Doug]

I've been nervous lots of times.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Live from Joe's mom's basement, it's the Stacking Benjamin Show. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And are you fighting a scarcity mindset where it's tough to imagine yourself having it all? Well, today we're standing beside you and fighting back with special guest Lisa Peterson. Plus, in our headline, volatility in the stock market. Don't worry because one company is going to join the parade of selling you alternative investments. Oh, man, I can't wait to see what OG thinks about this. We'll all hear together, I'm sure. Plus we'll also hear today's trivia question from yours truly and we'll share a TikTok minute that I'm sure will be a hit with all of your friends. And now two guys who when you say diversify, they say, how much, sir? It's Joe and oh Juju Jaja G.

[OG]

Hey there, stacker. Welcome to your muddy boot Camp. This fin Wednesday, I am Joe Saul Sei Hub 2 soldier because the commander in chief is on his way into the barracks. Mr. OG is here. Straighten up.

[Doug]

What's happening?

[OG]

Look alive. Would you like to inspire our troops?

[Doug]

I don't see the. I don't see where we're going with this, Mr. OG.

[OG]

No, yeah, sorry, not at all. Not going to inspire anybody for money greatness today, everybody. We got a great Wednesday. Otherwise though, Lisa Peterson's in the house.

[Doug]

That's the inspiration there.

[OG]

It is not me. He's incapable of aspiring.

[Doug]

I'm perfectly good at perspiring. Is that okay?

[OG]

He'd have a 20 minute pep talk just to get on the mic. We got. We got a lot of work to do.

[Doug]

Slap myself in the morning, like, let's do this.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

We're going to wake up in 0400 and have a locker box inspection.

[Doug]

The hell's a locker box?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Were you not afforded a place to keep your belongings in the Marines? Do you not even get, like, a locker box is a thing at the foot of your bed, your bunk?

[Doug]

Use some weird words. A locker box, foot locker.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I'm quoting from Stripes. Yeah, Stripes.

[OG]

Oh, those guys clearly knew army training, sir. They say that all the time.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Training, sir.

[Doug]

It's like six weeks long. You get dessert.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You get what you gotta. What a great weight loss program here. Six to eight weeks long, which is perfect for me.

[OG]

Was that John Candy?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, that was John Candy.

[OG]

Of course.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

My doctor says I swallow a lot of aggression along with a lot of pizzas.

[OG]

That sounds. That sounds like something your doctor would have said, Doug.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And I would have been the guy in the. In the get to know you session in the barracks on the first night. I totally would have been that guy.

[Doug]

I didn't see this movie.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I'm glad I didn't see Stripes.

[Doug]

I think I would be.

[OG]

I don't believe infuriated anybody that hasn't seen this old movie. This is his phone. Bill Murray. John Candy.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

John Landis was John.

[OG]

John Landis. And. And who was the other ghost but Harold Ramus.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Harold Ramis.

[OG]

Harold.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I'm sorry, that's who I'm thinking of. I said John Landis, but I'm thinking Harold.

[OG]

Yeah. John Landis was the director, right?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. It's one of the few comedies from back then that still. Still carries. It still works.

[OG]

It's gotta hold up like that.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And Caddyshack, those two were like bookends of the comedic pantheon back in the early 80s. And they're just. They're amazing.

[OG]

I listened to a podcast recently called what went wrong. It goes over, I think, Doug, you'd really like this one. It's about all the things that go wrong in the making of a movie. And they were talking about Ghostbusters. And those guys had come off of Stripes. No, they. No, they come off of.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, I think there was something in between Meatballs.

[OG]

Meatballs. Which didn't do great because it was up against these other big movies like National Lampoon's Vacation, which did much, much, much better. But anyway, fine, if you like hearing about how some of these movies are made and the business decisions they make, the ones that go well, contract negotiations, all that stuff. When it comes to making your favorite movies, what Went Wrong is a fun podcast diving into all that. But we got a fun podcast for you today. Talking money. We've spent all day this Monday talking with Sam Dogan about your money mindset. We're going to continue that get even a little deeper with Lisa Peterson. Lisa, of course, is the person who is behind the Mindful Millionaire brand. She had an amazing story that I use all the time about thinking about what's important. Lisa, sadly, was at her doctor's office when there was a mass shooting and she realized that the things she thought were important weren't nearly as important as she thought and she wasn't focusing on the right stuff. So Lisa's person who knows a lot about mindset, she's coming up next. But before we get to Lisa, we have a couple of sponsors that make sure that you don't have to pay for any of all the goodness you're going to hear today or any day on the Stacking Benjamin show. So we're going to hear from a couple of them and then Lisa Peterson. It's going to help be our money catalyst. Today's show is sponsored by Strawberry Me Stackers. All right, everybody, let's talk careers. You know, you work hard, you bring in a paycheck, maybe even contribute to your 401k, like a responsible adult gold star for you. But here's the thing. Making money is great, but making the right move to actually grow your career and earn more, are you doing that because, let's be honest, hoping your boss finally notices you and hands you a raise? That is not a plan. That is a gamble. And unless you're the type of person who gets excited about betting their retirement on meme stocks, you probably want a better strategy. I certainly do. I have a coach, Mary Lou, that I meet with every Monday morning and Mary Lou and I lay out my week. We talk about doing the things that are important to my family, that are important for my health and, and the things that are important for financial literacy and stacking Benjamins and the intersection of all those things. And that's where Strawberry Me career coaching can help you. They'll match you with a certified career coach. Somebody knows how to help you get ahead. Like my coach helps me negotiate better pay and actually make smart money moves so you're not Leaving money on the table. You've heard me talk about this before. The key is to have people around you, smart people around you who hold you you accountable to getting those things you say that you want for yourself. If you're anything like me, you've been meaning to quote, update your resume for like the last five years. I remember what Mary Lou said. Are we going to keep talking about this book? Are you finally going to write it? And I'm very proud of Stacked. But without Mary Lou, I would have never had Stack. Your career is your biggest financial asset. It's time to start treating in that way. When I started treating it that way, things change. It can be the same for you. So here's the deal. Go to Strawberry Me. It's Strawberry Me stacking and you'll claim your 50 credit that strawberry Me stacking. Because maximizing your earnings is just as important as maximizing your investments. Strawberry Me does not facilitate or provide health care services. Please consult with a healthcare professional. But guys, let's get smart people around us, shall we? Small business owners State Farm's there with small business insurance to fit your specific needs. Whether you're starting a new venture or growing an existing one, State Farm helps you choose the right coverage to protect what matters most. Working with a local State Farm agent helps you understand your coverage options. Offering local support to help you achieve your goals. Focus on turning your passion into a thriving business. Knowing your insurance can change as your business grows. Stay Farm here to help you succeed with your business. Like a good neighbor. Stay Farm is there. Hey Stackers. Great news that we received after we recorded these shows. You may have heard this last week, but if you missed our greatest this week, we are coming to Boston. Boston area Stackers. I will be there on Tuesday, May 20th at Idle Hands Brewing in Malden. It's Idle Hands Brewing in Malden. The place to sign up is stackybenjamins.com meetup. Go make sure we know that you're coming. We're gonna have some appetizers, we're gonna have some drinks. It's gonna be a good time with either a foamy beverage or just the beverage of your choice. Non foamy is perfectly acceptable as well. But you know what? Hanging out with you is something that is so fun. We had a great time last time I was in the Boston area Idle Hands Craft Ales in Malden Tuesday, May 20 Boston area stackers stacky benjamins.com meetup to tell us you're coming. Well, if you suffer from one more year syndrome or fears of stuff spending the next dollar or that money's transitory. And like, I thought when I was younger, if it's in my pocket, baby, it is. It's fair game. Well, the next half hour is going to be specifically for you because the Lisa Peterson's here. How are you?

[Lisa Peterson]

I am so good. It's so fun to be here. Thank you.

[OG]

It's so fun to have you back. It's funny, I don't know if I've told you this, but when I talk, your face is always on a screen because I always tell the story you told me from a long time ago when you were on so. Which we don't have to go back through that. But I gotta tell you, on this project, talking about money catalysts and really kind of changing our framing around money. I love this project, number one, because when you're introducing it, it's all around a donut. Number one, like, this woman is looking longly at a donut, and I'm like, oh, that's me. That's totally me. And in Paris, which I don't know if you and I have talked about this, but it's my favorite city in the world.

[Lisa Peterson]

Me too.

[OG]

Isn't it? It's so. Paris is so, so, so awesome.

[Lisa Peterson]

Oh, the best.

[OG]

Yeah. Why this topic? Why now? Why do we need to talk about a new framing around money?

[Lisa Peterson]

It's time. It's time. The idea that I'm always talking about being more conscious about this relationship with money, I have the sense that people are going to really, really be more conscious about their money in the coming months and years. Let's face it, we live in the United States of America. There's been this debt problem. There's been these things like inflation. There's been a lot of stuff going on, and no matter where you fall, you're affected by it. And that's how it goes with money. So I'm always preaching to this idea that the more we understand our relationship with money, the happier our lives are going to be.

[OG]

And it's funny, we have all this subconscious stuff going on, and stackers. Lisa and I are going to take you through a little bit of the journey that she takes us on, because this project is a. It's a parable. So if you've read the E. Myth, which I've talked about a lot here, if you've ever read the goal books like that, where it's just a simple, fun story, like I was telling Lisa before we hit record, I just want to know what happens with her and Ethan. But we'll get to that in a second because I haven't finished it. But in the beginning, you realize immediately that we attach all this meaning to these little either things in our wallet or to our credit card. Lisa, like, this woman has been living this life where she. She's very mindful about money, but maybe too mindful to the point that she's not doing any living.

[Lisa Peterson]

Exactly. You summed it up very nicely.

[OG]

Is that most of us, yeah, I.

[Lisa Peterson]

Think that we fall on the spectrum depending on what phase of life we're in. Like, when we're younger, there may be a tendency to spend more, and then we learn that that didn't work out so well. But, you know, in her situation, she didn't have a lot growing up. She was responsible for a lot in her home at an early age. She gets out of college, has money, goes a little bit crazy, and with some spending too much, gets into trouble, her husband bails her out, and now they're like, okay, we just have to be careful. Like, everything is about this frugality mindset. And then she goes to Paris and she realizes, hold the fort. I don't know if I'm doing this right. I don't know if this is really going to get me what I want, which is happiness and joy. And therein lies the struggle, because it isn't one way or the other. And that's what she ends up starting to explore. It's not just spend all your money. It's also not be frugality your way to joy and happiness. I mean, maybe. But again, we write books that we most need or that we've most learned from. And side note, my husband a few years ago got prostate cancer. And I know that had a lot to do with this book because I was in Paris myself experiencing what started this whole thing. And I was with someone who had never been to Paris before and doesn't have a lot of money. And yet I was taking her as a thank you gift. Yet she showed me what true abundance was all about in Paris. And it wasn't just about spending money. It was about being in the present moment and celebrating what was in front of us. Instead of me doing this, okay, well, how much is that going to cost in US Dollars to Euros and all these crazy behaviors that I have done. And I miss out on the whole experience because I'm thinking about how much it costs. And so all of this is kind of coming into the setting of what she starts to explore.

[OG]

Yeah, she is this your friend was the one that had the donut in front of her, and she's worshiping this donut, and you're like, I don't know. I get the feeling you're like, come on, it's a donut. But then you realize it's no matter what it is, she's in the moment. Lisa. She's present all the way through Paris. Instead of, to your point, just clicking off the next box and go, well, now it's time to go to the Louvre. It's time to go to the next thing.

[Lisa Peterson]

Yes, she is seizing the moment. And every single thing we do is the most magical experience I've ever had. And I've been to Paris many times, and I was shocked. It was so shocking. I didn't even understand what was happening because I was just kind of holding on.

[OG]

I feel like you're seeing it through new eyes.

[Lisa Peterson]

Yep. And how money plays into our experiences of whether we're in the present moment or we're not.

[OG]

You know, I get the feeling that what you're telling us early on is maybe we're even just coming at this from the wrong way. Like, am I frugal? Am I somebody that yolos? I get the feeling that you're saying that deciding that really isn't where we need to start. Am I right with that?

[Lisa Peterson]

Yes, you are questioning these assumptions that we just take for granted are right and that are taking good care of us. What if we don't have it is figured out as we think we do? Like that that is really what's going on. And what's so interesting is a little backstory, is I was asked to write a book, the most basic book possible, a nonfiction book about abundance by my publisher. And I started writing it, and it just felt like everything had already been said before. I was bored to no end, and I didn't think I could do it the way that they wanted me to do it. And what kept coming to me was a year before, this experience of being in Paris with Jenny, and I was like, well, I'm just going to write that as a short story, not necessarily about us, but two women in Paris together. And I wrote it thinking, well, maybe this would be, like, the way to introduce it. And once I introduce this short story, then I can write the nonfiction book. Well, when I was workshopping this with 35 people in my community, and I was writing the nonfiction book and I was writing the fiction story, I gave them the fiction story. And everybody was like, oh, my gosh, what happens next? And I was like, I don't know, like, I don't know what happens next, you guys. Like, I'm not a fiction writer. Like, I don't know that I can tell you, but I'm really excited. Like, it made me cry that they actually got excited about the story. Then I came up with the next scene, which actually was inspired by a real life thing that happened in Paris. And then they were like, lisa, there's no point of writing a nonfiction book. Like, stay with Mirabel. Please tell us what Mirabel's about to do. So I feel like this did not happen in a very planned way is what I'm trying to say. Like, all these crazy ass experiences that I've had with money over my lifetime were able to find their way in a very vulnerable way into these characters.

[OG]

And yet then the final product is eight very laid out, not necessarily steps, but this emotional maze that we go through as we try to figure out abundance. Like I was. I love the fact that you failed on telling us about abundance and instead succeeded to show us this is. This is abundance through this story. Because when she begins. So for our stackers out there, we'll just share just a little bit of what happens. At the beginning. She's with a friend, much like your friend, and she's present in Paris, and she's seeing this wonderful stuff that the friend says, let's share a bottle of wine. Let's make it champagne. And this woman who normally is a penny pincher is like, yeah, let's do it. And then she finds herself at a nice restaurant and they. They spend money on that. And she realizes that because it's so much a part of the experience, I don't ever feel like it's frivolous. It just is. She's fully enjoying the experience without spending so much time and energy, worried about her wallet to the point that even at the end I'm like, well, maybe she needs to worry about her wallet a little bit. Which is funny because then she comes home and she immediately. Then Lisa has this fight with her husband because he wasn't there. He didn't experience it. And I feel like, Lisa, this is kind of the two halves of our brain, right? I've got the. Damn it. I'm in Paris. And this is the experience I want in my life. But at the same time, I have to be responsible. I got to make sure this lasts forever like it is. It is truly hard to live an abundant life and yet live a responsible life at the same time. It's not an easy journey.

[Lisa Peterson]

It really isn't. It really isn't. And I think that was why I was struggling so much in this nonfiction book about abundance, because it felt like it was filled with bull. I couldn't do it. Like, I couldn't just tell people what they want to hear. I couldn't make it picture perfect and glossy and, oh, if you just think this way, then everything's going to be awesome. And meanwhile, people are trying to figure out how to buy organic blueberries at Costco, which is what we were talking about with my husband today when he was there saying, they're $11. Is it worth it? And it's like, no, it's not worth it today, honey. I mean, you know what I mean? Like, I couldn't write that book.

[OG]

Or people even just worried about making the rent payment this month.

[Lisa Peterson]

Oh, my gosh. Yes, yes. And there's tons of people that are really struggling. If you look at the data, it's saying that more people were making the minimum payments on their credit cards than like, they, they had ever tracked. I mean, just crazy data that tells you we have a problem. And I couldn't play into this self help thing that I have been a part of. I was like, it's way more complicated than this. And the only way I could say what I wanted to say was through real people living a real life, struggling with the things that we struggle with now. Granted, their transformation happens a lot faster than most of the time it happens for us. But the same spirit of it is those fights, those challenges, those conversations with our friends where they're like, you know, it's nice for you to imagine that you're living in Paris all the time, but that's totally not realistic. The truth tellers in our lives, thank goodness they exist. I wanted the character to still be in this real life experience, and yet she's able to find a way through it.

[OG]

That to me, is the exciting part because of the fact that these maybe not fights, but these deep discussions are worth having with your spouse, with your partner, with your friends around you. Like, this is not my reality. I want a different reality for myself. And even to begin, because you talk about at the beginning of this project that really starts inside. Like, you need to look inside. Is this really. Is this really what I'm going for? Like, what am I going for? This was a frustrating thing. You were a financial planner. I was a financial planner. Looking at. Even with my clients, sometimes they weren't looking at, like, what they really want. They're like, oh, I could probably do this. I'm like, who cares about that? What do you really want to do? And, Lisa, it's such a big struggle to even look at that in the mirror.

[Lisa Peterson]

I agree. And I'll say that this book. My husband and I have been together forever. And, like, he helped me a lot on this book. And we have got a lot of money, conversations. And I am not kidding you. We grew more from this book and his involvement in this book that I could ever even begin to list out all the changes.

[OG]

How is that? What do you mean?

[Lisa Peterson]

Well, first of all, when I wrote, because I had never written fiction, and he read the first draft, he's like, your Ethan sounds like maybe a male therapist, but more like a woman. That's not what a guy would say.

[OG]

Sure.

[Lisa Peterson]

He had to help me. He had to come back and get really involved in the characters to be like, a guy would say this, not that. Right.

[OG]

I mean, and everybody says it's hard for people to. Women to write men, men to write women, etc. Anyway.

[Lisa Peterson]

Yeah, totally, totally. So he was involved in the whole thing. And what would happen is he'd read it and he's like, are you trying to tell me something?

[OG]

Like, he thinks you're using the character to talk to him.

[Lisa Peterson]

Yes, 100%. I'm like, Honey, just say everything doesn't.

[OG]

Have to be about you.

[Lisa Peterson]

Yeah. I mean, he's like. He has this thing, I think, because I've been growing so much as a human for the whole time we've been together, and I think he goes through these periods where he's like, oh, my gosh, she's growing again. And that means I'm gonna have to grow again. So this book was like an opportunity because I was exploring things that were deep inside of my relationship with money and my challenges in my relationship, and I was bringing them in. I was like, we are not the only ones dealing with this stuff. But what's amazing is by writing about it and reading it, we started having conversations about patterns that we have that weren't healthy for us even after being together for so long.

[OG]

That's fabulous. What are you struggling with?

[Lisa Peterson]

What it was I struggling with?

[OG]

Yeah. You said patterns and things that you've been struggling with.

[Lisa Peterson]

Yeah.

[OG]

What are you struggling with?

[Lisa Peterson]

You know, we have achieved a really good position with money, and yet we still struggle with where is it reasonable to spend it and where is it not? It's not ever probably going to be easy for us, because I know that we were able to build wealth through frugality, but we're at a phase in life where between him getting cancer and us kind of backing away from work being the primary way that we earn, I'd say actively working for others, we are more focused on, like, passive income sources. We have more freedom than we ever had before, but nobody taught us how to use that freedom and use it in a way that brings us great joy. And so even the story of Ethan. Originally, I thought this book was going to be mostly for women. But what Tim has shown me is that, and the men who have read this book have come back to me on is they see themselves, themselves in the places and the places where they're holding back, where they really aren't asking that question. You said earlier of like, do I really, really know what I want? Do I really, really know who I want to be hanging out with and why I want to be hanging out with them? Am I being incredibly purposeful in these areas?

[OG]

Even Lisa, for me, it was even smaller than that. When they upgrade the bottle of wine, I'm even thinking to myself, I'm like, is that worth it to me? Is it worth it? Do I go with the less expensive bottle of win this the moment? I know I'm not the only person that's done this. I've got a couple bottles of wine in my fridge that are probably bad now because I've saved them for a special moment for so long. And every single moment, Lisa, it's not the moment. I'm like, no, no, no, no, this isn't the moment. It's to be a really special moment. You know what's going to happen by the time I actually get around to cracking open the bottle of wine? It's going to be junk. It's going to be gone. It's going to be bad because I'm going to wait too long. And so this. Is this the moment? Is this what's really important to me? You know, should I be looking at the donut and appreciating it before I just gobble it? You know, like, even those little things are important. Well, heck, let's take one here because I've got a couple things early on in the book that I think that a lot of us struggle with. One big moment comes with Maribel, your main character, asked Lila, who is the free spirit, who is really convinced her in Paris to have fun. Mirabelle asked Leela why she's tipping this street artist so much money. They go by this street artist. Lila leaves like, it's huge tip. And Mirabel says, I don't get it. Isn't that A lot of money for something you can't even take with you. I'm not even going to get anything out of this. And then Leela says back, if we follow that logic, this trip is a waste of money. The memories won't last forever. But isn't experiencing beauty and feeling alive what truly makes us feel wealthy? That's what living an abundant life is all about.

[Lisa Peterson]

Yes. And are we paying attention to that? Are we totally equating money to stuff or money to the number? How high that number goes, that's the most important thing. There are plenty of people that do look at it that way without questioning the fact that money is literally there to make sure that we have a roof over our heads, you know, a car to drive, food to eat. That's the most important thing about money. Not the accumulation of money as the joy in and of itself.

[OG]

It's this reminder when I generously tip, because it meant a lot to me and it was a big moment for me, and I realized that this person probably needs the money more than I do. Frankly, as somebody that's done pretty well, I've also found that it always comes back to me, you know, like, the spirit of giving. The more I give, the easier it is for me to manifest more. I don't know why, I don't know how, but, Lisa, it always seems to happen, you know what I mean? Where when I get really, really, really frugal and I don't do anything, I feel like the opportunities dry up. The universe just shuts down to me the same way I'm shutting down to everybody else.

[Lisa Peterson]

I totally feel that, and I've noticed it. It's so powerful to just notice where your scarce patterns show up, because they might not be as blatant as what you just described, where you're like, oh, I feel like I need to be more tight with my money. Like, it might just be in certain places, like at the restaurant when you're tipping or. And instead of feeling the generosity of this great service that you just received, you're like, oh, tipping is overrated. You know, like, you go into an internal tirade of, like, even though you just got wonderful service, that would be in that moment, you are having a scarcity or abundant experience right there and then.

[OG]

It's amazing being around other people and watching this manifest itself, and you sometimes wonder what's going on. You know, people also feel this way when it comes to work. Early on, Mirabel meets a man in the airport, and he clearly, you have this great device you use. So that she's able to be around a really, really rich guy. Won't. I won't spoil it for everybody, but I like how you get them sitting next to each other and they just start to talk. And he explains to her that he grew his company bigger and bigger, bigger, and he made more and more and more money. And he talks about how he was really chasing this unclear idea of success, and he didn't really know it was bigger and bigger and bigger. And it was for what? And it's funny that I read that within an hour I saw this interview on TikTok. This is an interview with the character known as Mr. Beast. You know Mr. Beast from YouTube?

[Lisa Peterson]

Yeah.

[OG]

This is Jimmy, Mr. Beast, being interviewed by Stephen Bartlett.

[E]

If my mental health was a priority, I wouldn't be as successful as I am. I mean, that's just, like, a sad fact. Like, I obviously never would have buried myself alive for seven days. Seven days in solitary, seven days on a desert island. Seven days, blah, blah, blah. Being able to consistently suffer over long periods is, like, arguably one of the deepest modes. Like, there's a reason no one makes videos like me. Like, not even close, because no one wants to live the life I live. I think there was one year I was flying, like, 200 days. Like, I was on a plane. I mean, it was.

[Doug]

It was a mess.

[E]

But, you know, to get these videos done, when I wake up tomorrow and I'm going to be pretty tired and feel like something I always tell myself is how you feel right now is why no one else does what you want to do or does what you do. And if you push through this, that's just even, you know, more of a reason why no one will ever be who you are. And so I think being able to push through unhappiness and do things you don't want to do consistently year after year over the course of a decade is, like the ultimate advantage. Like, I mean, I think we'll hit a billion subscribers, and I don't think anyone will be anywhere near close. Because, like, once you make a couple million dollars, why would you live the life I live? Like, why. Why would you not take weekends off? Why would you not just film locally, even if it means less views so you can be on the right time schedule? Why would you not prioritize your sanity and that kind of stuff? It makes no sense, but that's why no one else does it.

[OG]

Lisa, I'm with him about the mission. You can tell it's not about the money, it's about the billion Views. I see people like him, like Tom Brady, like Serena Williams, where if it was just about one title, Lisa, they would have gotten the trophy, moved on. But it truly is about this system of making trophies and this inner drive to be better. I'm on board with all of that. The part that struck me that I don't hear from any of those other champions was pushing through unhappiness and pushing through mental instability. I've never thought of. I have at times, and. And obviously, I'm looking at this through People magazine's eyes. I've questioned sometimes what Tom Brady's focused on or, you know, Serena. It's easy for me to do. It's easy for all of us to throw darts, Right? But I never questioned their sanity or their happiness. I felt like they're probably very happy. When you see them, they seem very happy doing this thing. Driven and happy. When Jimmy starts talking about unhappy, that's when he really loses me. Because he seems like your guy in the book. Like, he's just building it and building it and building it and building it and colossally unhappy.

[Lisa Peterson]

Totally. It's all ego. There's no heart in it. The character in the book, it took getting cancer for him to reevaluate his life. And I've known plenty of people who have done that, but not just reevaluate, but realize that maybe he was missing the whole freaking point of his life. Like, that's what I feel like happens. And you know what just occurred to me when I was listening to that and to you? Most of the time, we'll see successful people, and we'll see them, like, doing the Tom Brady, or right now, it's Nicole Kidman. I'm like, how many movies can you be in? Like, you're in every single thing. I don't know how she has a life. Everywhere you look, we see those stories of, like, one more, one more, one more, more, more, more. But what we don't see are those stories. And I do feel like this may apply to Serena, where she did fall in love and she did have a baby, and her life radically changed, okay? And she went to that life, and she's totally embracing that life, and I think she's talking about it. But most of the time, when people do find the beautiful combination that's bringing them love and happiness and joy, they exit, and we don't ever hear about what happened for them. They just disappear. So we don't have a lot of role models that say, maybe I didn't really understand this thing. This Game of Life. Even though it looked like I was winning, it's not true.

[OG]

I'm chasing the thing. And for what? Yeah, I was very disturbed by that interview. I had a long discussion with our friend Paula Pant about that discussion because when he talked about being unhappy, I'm like, I think you're missing it. I don't know. Again, easy for me to say because he's Mr. Beast with all his stuff going on. But I don't think choosing unhappiness is the way to go. Later on in the book, you begin marrying money habits into these catalysts. How do we begin? And obviously, you know, in a 25 minute discussion, we're not going to solve all of our stackers problems. Lisa, but how do we begin molding better money patterns into this abundant approach that you're talking about? What are our first moves?

[Lisa Peterson]

It was so hard, Joe. I have been working with people in money for like 30 years. I started with 20 for each of them. And I just kept drilling down and drilling down like, okay, only five, girlfriend, you can do it. And one of them I'll share came directly from my daughter in the past couple years who is running a very successful content creation business. Okay, so these aren't the same that we've heard all along. I tried to bring things that were different. And the one learned by Zoe is when you want to make more money, you need to be very, very comfortable with the word no. What that means is that my daughter, in negotiating her deals, she strives to hear no. Because until she hears no, she is not sure that she's actually pricing at the market for her services. I started applying that to everything. Like when you ask for a raise, like, are we all afraid of hearing no? Because we're never going to know the ceiling if we don't push it. And in any negotiation, are you stopping before you get to know because you want to keep it copacetic, or could you actually push yourself and become very comfortable knowing that you've reached the end of the negotiation and now you have achieved something that you wouldn't have achieved without that one tip?

[OG]

What I love about that tip for me too is you kind of got to think to yourself, is this worth going until? No. Which means I have to question, is this really important to me, which is to our earlier discussion. That's the important part of this. How important is this? Am I debating something that's actually important?

[Lisa Peterson]

Yeah. I don't know about you, but it's important to make sure that you're earning the value that you're creating in the world.

[OG]

Absolutely. The book is called the Money Catalyst and it has been available for about three days, but you've got some extras that people go to a specific place.

[Lisa Peterson]

Lisa moneycatalystbook.com There's a journal that goes along with it and meditations that guide you through. And my latest edition, a song list that takes you through the whole book.

[OG]

Which is a song list.

[Lisa Peterson]

Yes. Isn't that fun?

[OG]

Like a Spotify playlist.

[Lisa Peterson]

Yes. I'm so excited.

[OG]

That is awesome. I'm a guy that listens to music nonstop, so that just made the whole thing. This was a very good book. It's now a great book. Lisa, thank you so much for helping our stackers really get their mind in the right place and think about abundance and what we really want. I truly appreciate the time and your energy around this topic.

[Lisa Peterson]

Thank you for having me. Thank you.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Hey there stackers. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and here's a Money Catalyst situation gone wrong. It was on today's date in history, way back in 1856, that a shipload of camels were first brought to the USA for commercial purposes. It was Congress who had appropriate $30,000 for the camel acquisition to be used in experiments to determine whether they'd work for the military. 33 camels began the voyage from Turkey, but 34 arrived. Incredibly, one had died along the way, but two were born and survived the trip. They were sent to Texas. You could still go see Camp Verde where they were stationed. Which leads to an important question. Under hot conditions like Texas summer, how long can camels go without water? Is it a whopping five days? An incredible two weeks? Or of a there's no way they can do it half a month? I'll be back with the answer to that question once I start finding out how long OG can go without Woodford. I believe it's about a week, but I want to find out scientifically.

[OG]

This message is brought to you by Navy Federal Credit Union. May is Military Appreciation Month and we're celebrating the military community that goes above and beyond every day with Navy Federal Credit Union. Navy Federal was created for the military community. It is dedicated to ensuring that its members feel celebrated and honored every single day. For over 90 years, Navy Federal's mission has been to support and uplift the military community, and this May is no different. It's not just a credit union. It's also a partner dedicated to helping its members achieve their financial goals. All active duty veterans and members of the military families are eligible to join. Navy Federal is excited to celebrate Military Appreciation Month as a special time to recognize our troops and the profound contributions that they make. Learn more@navy federal.org Celebrate Navy Federal Credit Union Our members are the mission. Navy Federal is ensured by NCUA this episode is brought to you by Lifelock. Not everyone is careful with your personal information, which might explain why there's a victim of identity theft every five seconds in the U.S. fortunately, there's LifeLock. LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity. If your identity is stolen, a US based restoration specialist will fix it, guaranteed or your money back. Save up to 40% your first year by visiting lifelock.com podcast terms apply hey there.

[Lisa Peterson]

I'm Paula Panz, host of the Afford Anything podcast. I help people make the smartest money decisions possible. You should.

[OG]

You should not do the 401k loan.

[Lisa Peterson]

Reason number 4872. Are we heading for a recession?

[OG]

You'd be shocked. Dumping it into the house. Invest in flipping houses.

[Lisa Peterson]

Mathematically the better option.

[OG]

Paula pants really keeping us in business.

[Lisa Peterson]

Because face it, money's too important to wing it. Review your budget.

[OG]

Take the reins.

[Lisa Peterson]

Sharpen your skills.

[OG]

Do the thing. Start a side hustle that will affect your life. Afford anything.

[Lisa Peterson]

Follow and listen on your favorite platform.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Hey there, Stackers. I'm Mr. Scientific Method Guy. Who's the three humped camel carrying this podcast? Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. The first camels in America sadly didn't work out. After the Civil War broke out, the Confederates couldn't afford to maintain the camel brigade, and that was the end of it. However, legends of camels roaming the Southwest continued for decades, including one called the Red Ghost, a huge camel supposedly with a skeleton riding on it. And that was seen across sections of Arizona until 1893, when a farmer reportedly shot it and killed it. And yes, there was a skeleton on the camel. But the question is, in hot weather, like a summer in the American Southwest, how long can a camel go without water? It's half a month or roughly 15 days. That's incredible. And now, because you shouldn't go without financial knowledge, bombs for more than five minutes.

[OG]

Here's Joe and Og man, camels roaming the American Southwest. OG imagine if that had taken off. You could be camel riding to work every day. Wouldn't that be fun?

[Doug]

I mean, it'd be something. I don't know. Fun would be the word I'd use. Have you ever ridden a camel?

[OG]

Briefly. Briefly. When we went to Egypt Scoreboard wrote a camel right by the gray pyramid.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Is that like. Like, sit on it. We'll take your picture. And I get off tourist.

[OG]

Oh, dude. It was not fun at all, because the bedouins that ran the thing, they had already been paid and tipped, and they spent the entire time begging me for another tip.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, man.

[OG]

And when I finally gave the dude, I told him 15 times. I told him 15 times. I kept saying, dude, I know you were already tipped. And he goes, he. He goes, no, brother, you got your information wrong. I'm like, no, our. My tour guide said that you were already tipped. No, you got your information wrong. And then I see my buddy Malcolm, who's on the next camel over, giving a tip, and they say something back and forth. So I'm like, malcolm, damn it. So then I give him a buck, and the. The dude. Whoa, whoa.

[Doug]

Big spender.

[OG]

Oh, no, no, no. Oh, gee. It gets. It gets really bad. The dude literally takes the dollar and throws it back at me, and it just falls in the desert and goes. You call that a tip? You think I can live on that? Your friend over here knows how to tip his guy. He said, I can't accept any of this money. That's horrible. Get off my camel.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Wow.

[OG]

Okay. Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

He asked you for the tip while you're sitting on the camel?

[OG]

While I'm on the camel after he's already. Oh, it was horrible.

[Doug]

We played a golf course a year ago with a bunch of friends, and some other friends had already played it. And it's a unique setup where you have to take caddies, and so the. There's a caddy fee, but then there's a tipped for the caddies, and there's eight of us playing, and maybe three or four of the guys had already played this course before. And we talked about it ahead of time. We're like, what's the. You know, what's the going rate on the caddy thing? So that we're all. And they say, well, you know, this is how much it is. So, okay, so we all tip our caddies every day. We played four days in a row, and on the last day, the caddy that I had made some comment about it, I was like, well, hopefully, you.

[OG]

Know, like, negative comment about the amount.

[Doug]

It was just enough of. It was just enough of go. I thought we all agreed that this was the rate, and so it was just enough to. Spidey senses tingling a little bit, right? And so I asked one of my other friends, I said, hey, what. I mean, we all agreed on Whatever the number was. 100 bucks, right? And he goes, no, man, I've been doing 200. I was like, what do you mean? And then I asked somebody else. They're like, Yeah, I did 200. I know we said 100, but I've been doing 200. I'm like, hold on a second. So half the group knows that the real number is 200, and half the group is looking like the.

[OG]

You're now the bag, cheap ass.

[Doug]

Yeah. I'm like, no wonder I've been getting bad putt reads this whole time.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It's a driver. I'm a hundred yards out, sir. It's a driver for you, sir.

[Doug]

It's. It's actually two wedges from here.

[OG]

I had a very awkward situation the first time I ever had a caddy. We pull up at the Detroit Golf Club with my buddy, and he pops his trunk. I get out, and this kid comes over, and he grabs my golf clubs, and he starts walking away with them. And so I start chasing after him. I'm like, hey, hey, hey. And my friend grabs my hand and goes, that's your caddy.

[Doug]

He looks deeply in your eye.

[OG]

He says, joe, that is. That is your caddy.

[Doug]

There's something I've been meaning to tell you.

[OG]

And then I step up to the first tee later. It was. It was so embarrassing. I. I think some. You know.

[Doug]

And then you realize that wasn't the embarrassing part.

[OG]

Oh, well, no, no. That's exactly where I'm going, because I tee off and, you know, we're right there in front of the beautiful club. And of course, the. It's part of the PGA Tour now, the Rocket Mortgage Classic, or whatever they call it. And I just smothered. It's just a beautiful drive right down the middle of the fairway. And so we get to my ball, and my caddy comes up, and he goes something like. Wind's blown left to right, and the thing. You want to play it over here? Whatever. And I turned to him, and I just start laughing. Oh, gee. I'm like, you don't need to do any of that today, because you're about to see some. You are going to see something. And I remember maybe on the 14th hole, I just. I needed a big. I need a big hit. I needed a big, big, big hit to get where I was going. So I just rear back, and I take this massive swing, and I completely missed the ball.

[Doug]

Great practice swing.

[OG]

And I turn myself so far around that my caddy literally has his head down. And he's trying so Damn hard not to laugh. He's like, no, I want a tip. No, I. No, please, God, I want a tip. I can't laugh at this dude who's the worst golfer I've ever seen. It was so bad. Yeah, not great. Anyway, let's get to our tick tock minute, shall we?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Is it about golf?

[OG]

It is not about golf, but, Doug, it's about sports. It is about sports.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Favorite sports team. Go.

[OG]

Yeah. How about the football draft that happened a couple weeks ago? And watching. Watching that. That one poor kid just go down and down and down in the draft?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Got out his. He was at the top of the mountain. Got out his sled and slid all the way down.

[OG]

Just horrible. When they were doing the fourth and fifth round, I actually put on my headphones and I went out for a run because I didn't want to Ms. ESPN calling. When this kid finally got drafted, I felt so bad. Oh, and how about the prank call that was made to him?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And that one got all the headlines, but there were a ton of prank calls. There were some offensive linemen who got five prank calls.

[OG]

Were there really?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, there were a bunch. The NFL's looking into how all of these numbers got exposed.

[Doug]

They know exactly how it happened.

[OG]

Oh, geez. Like, my bad.

[Doug]

No, no, they've already solved that problem. Yeah.

[OG]

Is it all from that same kid, the offensive coordinator's son?

[Doug]

I think so, yeah.

[OG]

Yeah, it's all from that one kid.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I didn't know that.

[OG]

Wow, that is. That is not good. Imagine if you came home and your kid did that. That's a bad day for everybody. But I saw this Tik Tok video for people that aren't into sports in the draft. You wait and you wait, and finally you get a call from the team that tells you that you've been drafted. So here is a guy who is in his 50s, and it appears that he has just gotten a call because his draft number has come up. Oh, man.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Are you serious? Oh, I'm excited. I'm pumped.

[OG]

I can't wait, Coach.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I can't wait.

[OG]

Yes. Been dreaming this all my life. I'm ready, coach. All right, all right. Thank you. Thank you so much. Going to assisted living. Hold whole different call up. The bad news about that one og. You don't make a bunch of money. You end up spending millions of dollars instead of getting millions of dollars.

[Doug]

I thought it was going to be a play on selective service, which was a conversation I got to have with my son the other day. He's like, wait, I got to do what? I was like, well, it's this really cool thing to volunteer yourself. Like, I don't want to. I'm like, that's not an option. It's the law.

[OG]

Big thanks to Justin for sending that my way. He actually wrote me and said maybe this is going to happen to one of you guys pretty soon. And I wanted to send him back. Just a big old finger.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, a single finger. A tall boy salute.

[OG]

Absolutely not the million dollar opportunity I was looking forward to. All right, time for today's headline.

[Lisa Peterson]

Hello, darlings. And now it's time for your favorite part of the show, our stacking Benjamin's headlines.

[OG]

Our headline today comes to us from investment news. This is some good news, OG with the markets fluctuating, as they always do, but people, of course, in the media really talking about it the last several weeks and all the tariff concerns that people have. Bruce Kelly writes a piece that I think is going to save everybody's bacon. He says, add Edward Jones, the closely held private partnership with more than 20, 000 financial advisors and $2.2 trillion in client assets to the roll call of firms expanding or revamping its list of drum roll investments outside of the stock market. Higher risk alternative investments that their financial advisors can sell to you and me. Firms are doing this at Kevin Gannon, chair and CEO of Robert A. Stranger and Company. There's a big pull to alternative investments right now because of volatility in the stock market. So the answer OG that your Edward Jones person is going to tell you is, you know what, Mr. Client, Ms. Client, you shouldn't be in the stock market at all. I got up a better thing for you than the stock market here. What are we talking about with these alternative investments, do you think?

[Doug]

Well, in a word, I guess stupidity.

[OG]

Is that 100%, a thousand percent stupidity?

[Doug]

Oh, this stuff pops up from time to time. Right. Especially when the market goes down. People who aren't comfortable with that recognize that volatility works both ways. For some reason, people seem to think that plus 20 is a really great thing, but minus 20 isn't the same thing. And you know, at the end of the day, if the average return is 10 and you get 20, that's volatility.

[OG]

That's.

[Doug]

I mean, it's just. That's the fun part of volatility. That's the good side. It's just we don't like the not so fun side of.

[OG]

But guess how you pay for it.

[Doug]

So when we get this downside fluctuation, when there's, you know, so a lot of the stuff, financial products come out that are, or at least they come out of the woodwork, that are meant to prey on the fear of people who are not as educated about it as they maybe could be. And so they'll say things like, get all of the upside with none of the downside, or you need non correlated investments that stay the course when the markets plummet. And then you use big words like that. The reality is that if you believe, and I think the vast majority of people will subscribe to this theory, that markets are terribly efficient. Efficient, not inefficient, they're very efficient. And what I mean by that is there's not any real information that's not immediately known by everybody all at the same time. And that's really the whole thesis of efficient markets, right, Is like, there are no secrets. And if you're trading based on secrets, you're doing it illegally. And, you know, eventually you go to jail, you get a big fine. So, you know, for, for real market participants. And I know people are gonna say, well, what about Congress? I've read that. Okay, whatever. That's not a thing. That's. Those aren't real people. I'm talking about us real people in.

[OG]

The real world, average people.

[Doug]

I'm just saying, like you and I both get to know the earnings report of Coca Cola at the same time. There's no, you know, your computer's slightly faster than mine. Maybe you can read faster than I can, so you can get through the 200 pages faster than I can, but the information is there, and it's available for consumption all at the same time to everyone at the, you know, at the same time. So all of the information is known. Therefore, people are educated in the price structure of stocks. So you sell it and I buy it. We agree on that price. You're comfortable with the selling it at that price. I'm comfortable with buying it at that price. That makes it an efficient market. It's just no different than going to the grocery store and knowing that avocados are 50 cents a piece or a dollar a piece or whatever they are. If one store is selling it for $6 a piece, they're not gonna sell any avocados because pretty soon the store manager's gonna go, there's something going on with their avocado. How come nobody's buying it? And he'll find out, well, somebody else is selling it for a dollar. And then, you know, or the guy at a dollar will go, hold on a second. Those guys over There are selling them for six. Why are we only selling for one? Let's charge three. You know, and it just, it works out and it works out very quickly. So when you introduce an investment product or an investment solution that supposedly has some sort of secret sauce, it just, just flies in the face of the overall overarching thesis of efficient markets. There is not a thing that exists that provides you with X return but Y volatility. You can't have bank security, guaranteed availability of your money tomorrow by the FDIC, insurance and small cap value returns of 13% a year. That doesn't exist in real life. And if somebody is trying to spin that to you, they are full of crap or there's something else associated with it, a high cost illiquidity. There's something that you don't know because there's no way that that product can exist in the real world otherwise everybody would do it. You know what I mean? Like, it's just, it's kind of like when somebody says, well, such and such a person always picks really good stocks. Well, if there was a person out there who could always pick the stock market in advance, that person would manage all the money for all the people. Right? Always. There would be no other people who were doing it. And then, guess what, there would be no market. And then, right, it would be over. So, you know, so it's a good thing that we can't predict it. So when you hear things like this alternative investment is designed to give you upside protection. Well, it can't do that. You can't get market returns in bank like security unless there's something else associated with it.

[OG]

I think the takeaway is every investment strategy has an Achilles heel. Every single, There is no investment strategy that does not have an Achilles heel. And if somebody sells you that they've got this perfect weapon that has no Achilles heel, you need to look harder because there is one. There's always going to be a time when an investment doesn't.

[Doug]

Yeah. And I think a trusted pro, I think somebody who is doing what's in your best interest will volunteer that information. Look, if you're concerned about market volatility and you're like, I can't, you know, I can't, I can't sleep at night. I've, you know, I'm really stressed out about this. I understand the concept of investing and, but it just really makes me uneasy. What can you do for me? There's a solution for that.

[OG]

Well, they want you to know it's in their best interest that you Know what the downside is? So when it happens, then you. You go, oh, yeah. Oh, gee, told me this is going to happen. Like, sure. This is a naturally occurring piece of this puzzle.

[Doug]

And I would say that in the context of your financial plan, that's how you answer these questions. It's like, we've mentioned this before. It's been a long time since we talked about it, so I think maybe it's not a good time. If all you wanted to do was have zero volatility. So let's say that you're like, Look, I'm 20 years old. I'd have too many Tums. Like, there's no way I can deal with that. I'll just save into my savings account, okay? That'll be what I do. I'll just save a lot of money. I get that. You know, I don't have any returns. I have to save money. This is the profound thing. You cannot make enough money between 20 and 65. To have enough money from 65 to 95, you will not earn. Even if you didn't pay taxes or bills or anything, you will not earn enough money to outpace the inflation required from 65 to 95. If you saved every dollar you made into a savings account, you have to have market returns. And I think when you build it, when you think about it from a financial planning standpoint, you become a little bit more. What's the word I want to use here? A little more immune to the ups and downs. Because you're like, I get it. This is part of the trade to get 10. You know, I got money that I. If, you know, Alex's tuition is due in four months, that money's safe and secure. It's sitting in the savings account. I don't care about that. My retirement is in 15 years. That money's invested aggressively. I've got money for when my grandkids go to college that's in 25 years from now. That's invested aggressive. Like, I don't care what happens to that money. I do care. Look, if I had my. If I had Alex's college tuition money in the market right now for his freshman year, I'd be pretty stressed, you know, because of, like, ah, crap, it's down 15%. I should have. But that's on me for not having the goal aligned with the money that I have.

[OG]

Having the money in the right place.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah, that's me going. You know, I'm being careless.

[OG]

And this is where I think Edward Jones is really getting it wrong. OG if the leadership at Edward Jones had any balls at all. Oh, they would. They would seriously be saying, no, this is when the rubber meets the road. If Your goal is 15 years from now, this is when you double down on these investments that we're doing. You know why? Because five years from now, seven years, who the hell knows when? But we do know that if the economy is going to continue, this is when the money is made. It's not when the market's up. It's not five years ago when things were doing great. It's not two years ago when things were doing great. You seriously are going to look back and go, you know what I should have been doing? And instead, what's Edward Jones doing? Edward Jones is going, oh, yeah, we're.

[Doug]

Going to give you this easy fix.

[OG]

Yeah, yeah, we're going to give you some duct tape. That, number one, takes away from the brilliance in your strategy, which is investing when things are down. But number two are also a bunch of garbage strategies that we end up reporting on later that blow up in your face five years from now. Edward Jones Advisors are going to get these calls. How come this thing isn't performing now that the stock market's back? How come I'm locked into this stupid thing? Well, you know, remember when the market was bad? It seemed like a good idea at the time.

[Doug]

The other thing is kind of interesting. I don't know. I don't know what the market will be like when people listen to this show. But as we record it today, it's been about a month since the chaos started. It went down a whole bunch, pretty violently. I was surprised to learn because I don't track this every single day, but, I mean, it's kind of like a big nothing burger right now, right? It was down 15, 18. Now it's back down to like minus three, minus four. Like, it's.

[OG]

It's like, yeah, a couple days ago.

[Doug]

If you'd have gone on vacation for a month without access to TV and somebody's like, dude, oh my God, the market's down 3%, he would have been like, okay. I mean, it's okay.

[OG]

Yeah, market down 6 a couple days ago. And if you well invested, I don't even know, meaning that you're diversified. If you're not just all in the s and P500, you're diversified, you're done less than that. If you had some international positions, you're going to be, you're going to be sitting in a, in a decent spot right now for sure. So, so, so sad to See Edward Jones make that move. And they're not the only ones. They're just the ones in this particular piece. And we'll link to it in our show [e-mail]. this is the time, Stackers. When shoveling money away, shovel money away.

[Doug]

Just do your thing.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

So in a mattress, just do your.

[OG]

Plan, follow your plan, stick with the stock market. You cannot save into the mattress. Like Og was saying earlier. The other thing too, some of this, by the way, OG for some people, and you've seen this before, it's boredom. Like some people, they just, they're like, boring is so, so not sexy. And then they get these sexy sales pitches about, you know, these cool things that they do. And the risk premium on most of these investments just isn't there because that's what the founder of the investment, the people making the packaging, that's what they're living on, is the risk premium by charging a bunch for the strategy.

[Doug]

One year return ending April 29th of the S&P is 10.14 plus 10. Yeah.

[OG]

As of today, as we record this.

[Doug]

As of when we.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

If you're bored, be like a normal person and buy a pair of golf shoes at 11 o' clock at night when you're scrolling and you don't need. Don't start messing with your investments.

[OG]

I know, I think, oh, you know what, there's got to be some alternative investment out there. Get a hobby, man.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Right. Get into photography. You can spend your money real easily on lenses.

[Doug]

Buy an airplane. Those are fun.

[OG]

Guess what investment I made?

[Doug]

Oh, that'll burn through a lot of cash.

[OG]

Well, link to this piece in the show notes. It's Stacky Benjamin's.com and stay the course, Stackers. Stay the course. We're going to move out on the back porch because we've got a couple things, Doug, if you decided. Are you joining us Thursday night for this shindig?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I am, I am leaning positively in that direction. I'm not going to guarantee it, but I'm leaning strongly in that direction.

[OG]

You get the Doug, by the way, I had somebody reach out to me and say I'm really enjoying more Doug in the conversations lately. And I said, and this might have been Gary, who we talked about on Monday, but I replied back, I'm like, do not write that. Do not say that. Don't, don't let him know. Please, God, do not.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And then you went and you undermined yourself and said it out loud.

[OG]

I'm saying that right now.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

My head's huge right now, well, that is the.

[OG]

Thank you for saying that you will join us on the, on the 15th, because we did this a few years ago. We had about 400 people join us online. It was a great discussion. Here's where you go for the retirement calculator mistakes. Stacky Benjamin's Live, 8pm Eastern on Thursday. This is, if you're listening to this later, you're like, which Thursday this would be? April. April, May 15, May 15, 2025. So if you're listening later, you missed it. It was great. It was fantastic. And next time, listen quicker.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Doug might have been there, and Doug.

[OG]

May have been there, and it was amazing. Steve Chen from Bolden joins us. He was there four years ago and this guy brings up all the things that he's seen and he and I were talking earlier. He's got some new ones, some doozies that people have made when they're diving into calculators. Bolden is our favorite calculator. If you're going to dive into the numbers yourself, it's the closest to the calculators that professional use. Professionals use that I know of. So stackybenjamins.com bolden2025b o l d I n 2025, go either to that link or just go to our YouTube page Thursday night, 8pm and you'll see that we are going live then. That's 8pm Eastern, 5pm Pacific. And do the math. If you're in Central or Mountain time zone.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I feel like those people are constantly doing math. Their whole life is just converting time.

[OG]

I gotta say, I don't know about you, og, but once I went to Central, I'm doing the math constantly. I'm like, okay, do we. Oh, all right.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Or where does this TV station originate? You're close enough to the line, Joe, you're probably wondering, wait, is that time they're putting on the screen real time? Is it like the rest of the world time or Central time?

[OG]

The only time it drives me crazy is on New Year's Eve. Because on New Year's Eve, finding the ball drop in the Central time zone is so difficult.

[Doug]

Just watch the one that's on New York and then go to bed.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I was gonna say, you know how I solve that? I go to bed. Bed at 11 o' clock. I mean, if you're searching for the.

[Doug]

Ball drop, which is an hour too late anyway, if you're still.

[OG]

Don't make the joke, Doug.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I'm gonna say, I gotta say the ball drop joke.

[OG]

Do not, do not make the joke. I knew exactly where your 12 year old mind is going, and we're not making the joke.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Damn it.

[OG]

I got some great stuff from our friends on Spotify. By the way, Silent Shade agree with me. South of Midnight's a really good game. It is. It's the prettiest game I played in a long time. This is a great Xbox game that we talked about a couple weeks ago. It is so good. Doug, you and I are getting into Far Cry now and we're.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yes. You know, I've heard about that franchise forever. Because when you and I are playing Far Cry 5, it's our first time trying any of them. And I was told about the setting for it and that just appealed to me more. It's like Montana, Wyoming, kind of.

[OG]

We're taking out some cultish group. There's some separatist group.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, yeah. But I always thought it was a sci fi setting and I just don't do sci fi. And so I've tried it, but it just doesn't hook me. But yeah, you and I played. Was it just one night or two nights?

[OG]

Just one night. Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It was awesome. Yeah. I can't wait to get back to it. That was. It was a great. Because you know what I like is co op.

[OG]

Yes, me too.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And I'm not going to sit down and play that in story mode, but I'll play bad news.

[OG]

OG is I always have to carry Doug through these levels because I'm so much better at video games than he is.

[Doug]

I feel the same way, actually.

[OG]

Doug sits there while I'm going.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, I hear Joe screaming and I think he's yelling at me.

[Doug]

Damn it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Why are you doing it? I'm just. I'm on the rooftop covering your ass. Why are you yelling at me?

[OG]

It's because I can't figure out the gun.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, I'm yelling at the other guy. I didn't want to switch to that weapon.

[OG]

How do I make my guy stand up?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

My guy won't stand up screaming at me all the time.

[OG]

I am the average old guy playing video games when we do that.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That.

[OG]

That's. That's fun. Oh, this is who said it. Brandon. Brandon on Spotify. I have to say, I like that you're including Doug Moore on the show. See, I shouldn't even be reading. This would be interesting what his top fives are for financial stuff after hanging out with you and that other guy. Yeah. Nobody else wants to know, Brandon. Nobody wants to know that we. We're vetoing that.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

There's a reason they've got me next to the water heater.

[OG]

Brandon Balls is back. Balls, who identified that he is a man, so he's aptly named. But Balls said when Le Penzo was here for the Squirrels Gone Wild episode, talking about retirement resilience a couple weeks ago, just before the break and going through these things that derail retirement. Ball says, to be honest, planning for a serious medical illness never crossed my mind. In my early 30s right now. I think OG when you think about these ahead of time, I love the fact that Balls is in his early 30s and he's thinking about the things that could go wrong now because then you start thinking, I think better about your financial plan, knowing well ahead of time. I feel like people concentrate on these things the day they retire. Oh, what could possibly go wrong?

[Doug]

Well, it's not even the time after you retire that it's the issue. It's the time between 30 and retirement of a major illness or injury.

[OG]

That really good point, that disability. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He says, thanks for the info and a great episode. Love listening to your episodes while I work through Excel spreadsheets. Len Penzo is awesome. He's also an engineer, so he and Len on the same wavelength. People will hear. Len's going to be back, I think in about three weeks. Joining us for another ride. Yes, that's. Well, no, there are two parts to Len. He likes the engineering part. Doug loves Squirrels Gone Wild.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, can't get enough of it.

[OG]

That's where he's at.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Pay for that.

[OG]

All right, thanks a ton to everybody for hanging out with us. Is there somebody that needed to hear about alternative investments and why we think they're bad or they need that money catalyst Lisa Peterson brought. Please tell a friend and forward this to them. Get them on that same train that we're on, Stackers on financial literacy and making sure that our community gets the same great help that you get by hanging out with us. So thanks a ton and Doug, you've got it from here, man. What are our big takeaways from today's show?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, Joe, first, take some advice from Lisa Peterson to change your financial situation. First. First, you need to change your thinking. Creating money in your life means finding money catalysts to help you along the road. Second, alternative investments. My God, how bored are you? Seriously, go find a hobby or leave your investments alone. But the big lesson, mom has absolutely no sense of humor. She didn't laugh at some of my best material. Check this out. What do you call a crying camel? A humpback whale. Wait for it. Here's another one. No, here's another one. What do you call a camel with no hump? Hump free. And finally, piece de resistance. How can camels live in the desert without going hungry? Because of all of the sandwiches there.

[OG]

Oh, my God.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Sandwiches there.

[OG]

And you guys rag on my jokes. Are you kidding me? Are you seriously kidding me right now?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Gold, Joe. It's gold, I'm telling you. Thanks to Lisa Peterson for joining us today. You'll find her new book the Money Catalyst, wherever books are sold. We'll also include links in our show notes@stacking benjamins.com this show is the property of SB Podcasts, LLC, Copyright 2025, and is created by Joe Saul Sehi. Joe gets help from a few of our neighborhood friends. You'll find out about our awesome [e-mail] along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello.

[OG]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don't take advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And we'll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin show. Sam.

[OG]

Short after show today. But, Doug, you got your better half involved in a TV show?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I did, yeah. This I've been telling people about. Whenever we talk about favorite TV shows and stuff, I feel like I. I always have to bring up the same two or three that just really hit me and have stuck as far as great series, great TV shows streaming. But you know what I'm talking about. You know, I always talk about the Americans. I always talk about godless, and I frequently talk about Fargo. And I think it gets amazing reviews. Critics love it, but I think a lot of people stay away from it because they're like, yeah, I saw that movie. I don't need to watch the TV version of it. It is. There's almost no correlation. I still am a little bit amazed or befuddled why they chose that title. Because other than happening, most of the stories and seasons happen in the upper Midwest, save one in Kansas City. It's. It's not Fargo at all. And so I couldn't get her interested in it. We were looking for something to watch. We'd finished the thing. We were. I'm like, let's try Fargo. And she just, like, immediately cut me off. No, not watching that. Yes, you are. Now I'm making you. And I know she liked the we watched. I started her on season five because the seasons are so loosely connected. It kind of doesn't matter. There's a thin thread of connection between each of the seasons, but you don't need it to enjoy it. And I started her on season five because it's got some big name actors in it that you've seen before. Jon Hamm is in it. Jennifer Jason Leigh Le. Nobody knows how to say her name. She's an amazingly strong female character. Jennifer Jason Lee's character is. And so is Juno Temple. That's who we couldn't. We couldn't remember.

[OG]

Juno Temple Keely on Ted Lasso.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Ted Lasso. She is amazing. Like the strongest female characters. I knew that my wife was gonna like this and she wouldn't admit it after the first episode she watched, but she's like, okay, let's watch another one. And then by the end, she's exactly like us.

[OG]

She does not want you to be right.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Right? She doesn't want. She absolutely does not.

[OG]

Whenever Doug recommends something to me, I'm like, yeah, it was okay just to mess with him.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You know how I could tell she was into it? She put her phone down.

[OG]

Say you're in 2025, without saying you're in 2025.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

She limited herself to one screen while we were watching. But Juno Temple is a total badass. She does an amazing Minnesota accent, maybe arguably better than mine.

[OG]

Marginally.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And then by the end of the second episode, she's all in. Now she just wants to binge it. It's so good. I would strongly recommend to people Fargo start with season one.

[OG]

I thought you were saying Keely wanted to binge the accent by the second episode. She's into it. She's full on. Minnesotan.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah.

[OG]

But there's full on.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

There's some good action, great fight scenes in it, you know, but there's. It's just a great drama storyline as well. It's kind of intricate. It's. There's something for everybody, something for the whole family.

[OG]

I'm loving. Andor the new season just finally started that. And I love how gritty it is. It is for people that, you know, marginally like Star Wars, I would say it's a great place to start because less of the magic and the Jedi stuff and much more of just the underdogs trying to get the job done. Gritty. Very, very, very good series.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

So just if I'm going to search for that, do I. Is it and or it's just a.

[OG]

N D O R Right? Make up your mind.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And. Or what? Star wars and. Or Star Trek.

[OG]

He could have called it either or would have been fine. Andor's really good. And then on my own, I'm finishing up this season of the Formula one series. Oh, the. The latest season of that Drive to Survive. Drive to Survive. That. Your spouse likes that, too.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, well, we. We lost the enthusiasm in season three when they stopped sort of manufacturing drama. Season one and season two, I think we found out they were kind of creating stuff that wasn't there.

[OG]

But that was so great, though. Did you see, though, the team principals talk about that Christian Horner going, there's been all this kerfuffle about us supposedly manufacturing drama. They ask him on the show, they go, there's supposedly been, you know, all this stuff about it. And Christian Horner goes, really? A TV series that manufactures drama? I would have never known. And then Zach Brown, the head of McLaren, says kind of the same thing. He's like, color me shocked.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I never saw this coming.

[OG]

I would have never known. While Max Verstappen, the driver, was like, I'm not taking part because you're making me look bad. And now V Max Verstappen takes part again because he kind of gets it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, because if it opens up the American market to F1 racing, everybody wins.

[OG]

Look at. There's three races now. There's three races in the United States. Just a few years ago, there was one that was barely hanging on.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

What? Miami, Texas. Where else?

[OG]

In Las Vegas.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Vegas? Yeah.

[OG]

Yeah. Vegas at midnight where they had accidentally. That. That manhole cover that wasn't on that.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That's right.

[OG]

Carlos Signs drove over it. And imagine how much those cars cost. Yeah, I gotta say, 10, $15 million maybe. I'm way off. We did a trivia question about that, but how to wreck a car in 30 seconds flat. Oh, gee. What are you watching?

[Doug]

Mostly the Weather Channel.

[OG]

The Weather Channel.

[Doug]

It's an active weather season right now. What can I say?

[OG]

Oh, my God. You know. You know, it's going to be three degrees tomorrow. The barometer tomorrow.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Winds coming out of. Out of three degrees.