Is Flourishing Tied to Financial Freedom? A New Study Reveals Insights (SB1689)

Summary

The Stacking Benjamins Show: Is Flourishing Tied to Financial Freedom? A New Study Reveals Insights (SB1689) – Summary

Release Date: May 30, 2025

In the episode titled "Is Flourishing Tied to Financial Freedom? A New Study Reveals Insights (SB1689)," hosts Joe Saul-Sehy and OG delve into the intricate relationship between financial status and personal flourishing. Joined by financial experts Paula Pant and Ryan Doolittle, the trio explores the nuances of what truly contributes to an individual's happiness and sense of well-being beyond mere financial metrics.

Introduction to Flourishing and Financial Freedom

The conversation begins with Doug introducing the central question of the episode: "Is happiness really about more money or about flourishing?" (Timestamp: [01:11]). This sets the stage for a comprehensive discussion on the factors that influence personal fulfillment and the role financial stability plays in it.

Generational Perspectives on Flourishing

Joe and OG bring insights on how different generations experience flourishing. Joe humorously remarks, "Is flourishing so much everybody that they actually took a needle and took some of the flourishment out of him?" (Timestamp: [02:34]), highlighting the abundance some individuals feel. Paula adds a personal touch by sharing updates about her cat's health, weaving in personal struggles with broader themes of flourishing (Timestamp: [03:27]).

Ryan Looldite, host of the "Happiest Retirees" podcast, contributes by discussing how retirement can significantly impact one's happiness. He states, "I interview happy retirees, and basically the gist of it is I ask them how they got happy..." (Timestamp: [06:02]). This emphasizes the importance of purposeful living in retirement for overall well-being.

Impact of Social Media and Expectations on Youth

The discussion shifts to younger generations, where Paula observes, "I think that as expectations have increased, the level of disappointment also has correspondingly increased for a lot of people" (Timestamp: [10:50]). Joe adds, "I'm learning that I suck versus everybody else. That's what you're saying?" (Timestamp: [11:09]), pointing out the detrimental effects of social comparison fostered by social media.

OG concurs, noting the disruption caused by the COVID-19 pandemic on education and socialization, which has long-term effects on the mental health and flourishing of young individuals (Timestamp: [10:11]).

The Role of Employment Status in Flourishing

A significant portion of the episode analyzes how different employment statuses correlate with personal flourishing. The study reveals that retirees rank highest in flourishing, followed by self-employed individuals, those employed by others, students, homemakers, and finally, the unemployed (Timestamp: [24:15]).

Paula offers an interpretation, suggesting that those who choose to be homemakers may flourish if it aligns with their personal aspirations, whereas those who feel compelled by financial constraints may not experience the same level of happiness (Timestamp: [29:13]).

Geographic Insights: Global Perspectives on Flourishing

One of the most surprising findings discussed is the high levels of flourishing reported in emerging markets such as Indonesia, Mexico, and the Philippines, contrasting with expectations that wealthier nations would top the list (Timestamp: [50:22]). Ryan expresses his surprise: "I was surprised that Indonesia was on top? Mexico second, Philippines number three." (Timestamp: [51:25]).

Paula postulates that the optimism and community ties prevalent in emerging economies, coupled with the expectation of continual improvement and generational progress, contribute to higher levels of flourishing (Timestamp: [52:41]).

Relationship Between Religion and Happiness

The hosts explore the impact of religious attendance on happiness, citing that individuals who participate in religious services more than once a week report higher levels of happiness compared to those who attend less frequently or not at all (Timestamp: [43:02]). Paula expands on this by highlighting that religion provides both a belief in a higher power and a strong community element, both of which are crucial for personal well-being (Timestamp: [44:32]).

Gender Differences in Flourishing During Retirement

The episode touches on gender dynamics in retirement. Ryan shares research indicating that male primates, and by extension men, tend to isolate as they age, which can negatively impact their social connections and happiness (Timestamp: [48:15]). Conversely, female primates maintain better social bonds, which correlates with sustained happiness in later years (Timestamp: [48:15]). This finding aligns with the study's observation that there is no significant difference in flourishing between men and women, suggesting that both genders face unique challenges in maintaining happiness (Timestamp: [46:09]).

The Role of Money in Financial Freedom and Flourishing

A recurring theme is the functional role of money in providing choices and flexibility, rather than being the sole determinant of happiness. Paula succinctly captures this sentiment: "I think money simply gives you choices. It gives you choices, it gives you options." (Timestamp: [56:59]). Ryan adds that while money is essential for achieving financial freedom, it serves as a means to an end—enabling individuals to pursue activities and lifestyles that bring them joy and fulfillment (Timestamp: [55:40]).

Key Takeaways and Conclusions

The episode concludes with an affirmation that flourishing is a multifaceted concept influenced by various factors including financial stability, employment status, community ties, religious involvement, and personal choices. The hosts emphasize that while money provides essential resources for flexibility and opportunities, true happiness and flourishing stem from meaningful relationships, purposeful work, and a supportive community.

Notable concluding remarks include OG's reflection on the global aspects of flourishing, stating, "It's just not money at all. It is this..." (Timestamp: [51:08]), underscoring that non-financial elements play a crucial role in personal well-being.

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Notable Quotes:

• "Happiness is expectations minus reality." — Paula Pant ([10:50])

• "Being old is awesome. I love being old. I like it so much better than being young." — Ryan Doolittle ([16:55])

• "I think money simply gives you choices. It gives you choices, it gives you options." — Paula Pant ([56:59])

• "We live in this era of outrage media, where there's a huge industry of people who get paid to make us angry and who get paid to make us tribalistic." — Paula Pant ([46:57])

• "If you have choices about your life, you are likely to be happier because whatever it is that you are doing is something that you chose." — Paula Pant ([56:59])

This episode offers a holistic view of flourishing, encouraging listeners to consider a balanced approach to financial freedom and personal well-being. By integrating expert insights and personal anecdotes, Joe, OG, Paula, and Ryan provide a thought-provoking exploration of what it truly means to live a fulfilling life.

Transcript

[Joe Salciat]

As a contractor, I don't pay for materials I don't use.

[Doug]

So why would I pay for stuff.

[OG]

I don't need in my mobile plan?

[Joe Salciat]

That's why the new My Biz Plan from Verizon Business is so perfect. Now I can choose exactly what I want and I only pay for what I need right now with my biz plan.

[OG]

Get our best price as low as $25 a line. Visit verizon.com business to get started today. Price per month with 5 plus lines includes auto pay and paper free billing and special intro offer discounts, taxes, fees, economic adjustment charge and terms apply.

[Ryan Doolittle]

Offers end June 10, 2025.

[Doug]

You know that feeling when someone shows up for you just when you need it most?

[Joe Salciat]

That's what Uber is all about.

[OG]

Not just a ride or dinner at your door. It's how Uber helps you show up.

[Joe Salciat]

For the moments that matter.

[OG]

Because showing up can turn a tough.

[Joe Salciat]

Day around or make a good one even better. Whatever it is, big or small, Uber is on the way.

[OG]

So you can be on yours.

[Ryan Doolittle]

Uber on our way.

[Joe Salciat]

You're gonna end up eating a steady diet of government cheese and living in a van down by the river.

[Doug]

Live from the basement of the YouTube headquarters, it's the Stacking Benjamin Show. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug smiles, everyone. Because we're asking the question, is happiness really about more money or about flourishing? A new study dives into this topic and we'll cover the findings and much more with our roundtable contributors. What is much more, you ask? I'll tell ya. I'll ask all three of these beautiful people about today's incredibly and intricately crafted trivia question. And now, a guy who likes intricately crafting retirement portfolios. It's Joe Salciat.

[Joe Salciat]

Hey, stackers. Is there anything more fun than playing around with the efficient frontier and making retirement portfolios? I think not. Welcome to Friday. We're super happy you're here. Sit back, relax, because we're about to have a good time. Talking about flourishing, let's talk to three people who I think are flourishing across the card table from me. Mr. OG is here. You're flourishing, right?

[OG]

I am. I'm doing it. Yeah. Ready to go.

[Joe Salciat]

Oh, gee, is flourishing so much everybody that they actually took a needle and took some of the flourishment out of him?

[OG]

Yeah, I have so much extra flourishing that I had to donate it to other people. And it makes you so sleepy. I just want to take a nap.

[Joe Salciat]

Oh, man. Well, you got to wait now because you got to Bring it first for our stackers, man. Come on.

[OG]

Shelby brought. Don't sweat.

[Joe Salciat]

The woman who's flourishing in Manhattan. Paula Pant is here. How are you?

[Paula Pant]

Oh, I'm. I'm fantastic. I'm a little bit under the weather, but that. Well, actually, the weather here kind of sucks, so I might actually be matched to the weather you've told that.

[Joe Salciat]

Flourishing.

[Paula Pant]

Yes, yes. The cold is flourishing. The germs, the bacteria, they are flourishing.

[Joe Salciat]

And in other news, for people that heard the show last week, how is the kitty doing?

[Paula Pant]

So far, so good. She had her second round of chemotherapy yesterday. In between her two chemo appointments, she actually gained a little bit of weight, which is really good.

[Joe Salciat]

I wish people would say that about me. Jo gained weight. It's so good.

[Paula Pant]

Yeah, yeah, she gained weight, which is exactly.

[Joe Salciat]

That is good news.

[Paula Pant]

Yeah, that's very, very good news. Her various counts of various things seem to be pretty good. You know, her. Her bilirubin is down. Her ALP is decent. So, yeah, the markers are all. So far, so good.

[Joe Salciat]

Paul is the only friend I have where we've talked about Billy Rubin several times.

[Paula Pant]

Oh, multiple times.

[Joe Salciat]

Multiple times.

[Paula Pant]

Oh, my goodness. Yes. Billy Rubin is my nemesis.

[OG]

Doug and I are gonna go find Billy and beat the crap out of him.

[Doug]

I thought he played third base for the Yankees.

[OG]

Because Mr. Rubin is going down.

[Joe Salciat]

He is in trouble.

[Paula Pant]

For those of you wondering what it is, Billy Rubin is the name of a liver enzyme. I don't know what it is in humans, but in cats, it should be, I think, under one. I don't actually know what the proper level in cats is. I think one or less, but in mine, it was five. The measure was 5.9, which is, like, elevated to 500 times. 600 times what it should be in.

[Joe Salciat]

Your cats, not yours?

[Paula Pant]

In my cat, yes.

[Joe Salciat]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But in yours and in my cat, it was even.

[Paula Pant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. My cat's bilirubin was 5.9, which is a very. For the veterinarians who are listening to this.

[Joe Salciat]

Yes.

[Paula Pant]

They'll understand. That's a very high marker, Paula.

[Joe Salciat]

Doug tests his liver enzymes constantly to make sure that they're working hard enough.

[Doug]

Just as often as I push the envelope, they really. It's like an engine that operates best, most efficiently right at redline. That's what I do to my liver.

[Joe Salciat]

Keeps them on their toes, I think.

[Ryan Doolittle]

Doug's liver enzymes are. Are called Paul Rubens, which he's played. Peewee Herman.

[Doug]

Whoa. May he rest in peace, the new guy.

[Joe Salciat]

And that voice that you just heard he's flourishing out in Southern California. Last time I talked to him, he was avoiding fires and lots of people not flourishing. Ryan Doolittle's here with us. How are you, brother?

[Ryan Doolittle]

You know, when I woke up today, I looked in the mirror and I said, so that's what flourishing looks like.

[Joe Salciat]

Pinch me. Absolutely. Well, I wanted you on for this episode specifically because you were the host of the Happiest Retirees podcast and part of Team West Moss, and you guys study happiness and retirement. I mean, this really for you, Ryan, should be, I think, at your wheelhouse, isn't it?

[Ryan Doolittle]

It really is. Yeah. I was. I was really excited just to hear from you at all. But the fact that it was also relevant was pretty cool, too. It seemed like a great fit.

[Joe Salciat]

See, and that's another reason I like Ryan right there. Just come on, Ryan. Keep it coming. I was so happy to hear from you. Yeah. And the Happiest Retirees podcast. Tell everybody what you do. I mean, I guess it's in the name.

[Ryan Doolittle]

It is. Yeah. I interview happy retirees, and basically the gist of it is I ask them how they got happy, and I'm hoping people listening will take some inspiration from it. If they. Maybe some of them are retired and think I'm not very happy, and I don't know why they might listen to that and say, well, maybe I'll just try what they're doing. Or maybe they're about to retire and it gives them sort of like a head start.

[Joe Salciat]

Does anybody tell you they get happier like Doug does by testing their liver enzymes, keeping them busy?

[Ryan Doolittle]

A lot of people tell me if they just talk to Doug at all, their liver enzymes start getting happy, their.

[Joe Salciat]

Bilirubin goes to five. Maybe that's what happened to Tassie. Paula is that she talked to Doug.

[Paula Pant]

You know, it was ever since I started taking part in the round table from home.

[Joe Salciat]

That's it.

[Paula Pant]

Right, Right.

[Joe Salciat]

Shame on you, Paula.

[Paula Pant]

Correlation. Correlation, I'm gonna say, is causation.

[Joe Salciat]

All right, we're talking about a new study that just came out about what makes people flourish. We're gonna get to that next couple sponsors that make this engine go so you don't have to pay a dime for any of this. Goodness. We're going to hear from them. And then Ryan, Paula, og, Doug and I diving into what actually makes people flourish. And is more money part of it? I know personally, the debt isn't just about money. It's about stress and sleepless nights and that constant weight on your shoulders. It can affect your relationships. It can shred your confidence. Truly, it can overshadow your whole life. So know that if you've ever felt any of that, you're not alone. There are millions of Americans struggling with debt, but there's a solution that can help. Beyond Finance was founded with a simple mission to help those struggling with overwhelming debt find a pathway to financial freedom. They can help you escape that endless cycle of making just minimum payments. Typical Beyond Finance clients see their payments on enrolled debt lowered by 40% or more than so you can expect immediate relief and the chance to start saving. The team prioritizes a hands on compassionate approach coupled with a focus on helping you get out of debt as soon as possible, save money and establish long term financial well being. They offer personalized 24. 7 support and financial wellness sessions with accredited financial therapist and you know you're in good hands with a Trustpilot rating of 4.6 out of 5 stars. So if you're ready to take that first step or learn more about achieving financial wellness, visit BeyondFinance.com not available in all states. Fees vary by state. Results may vary.

[Paula Pant]

This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. From streaming to shopping, prime helps you get more out of your passions. So whether you're a fan of true crime or prefer a nail biting novel from time to time, with services like Prime Video, Amazon Music, and fast free delivery, prime makes it easy to get more out of whatever you're into or getting into. Visit Amazon.comprime to learn more.

[Joe Salciat]

The inspiration for this discussion comes from a place that we found called the Conversation. And actually, it's funny, as I read through this study, I realized I've seen past studies that this group has done. And I've also read several places about past studies. Because in the past what this study has shown is that people historically have had kind of a U shape when it comes to flourishing. In other words, people when they're young tend to flourish. They tend to be frustrated in their 30s, more frustrated in their 40s as they're juggling so much stuff and they feel like they' not flourishing. They're swimming through, you know, the middle of their career. What do they call it? The messy middle. Right. They're there and then as they get older, they flourish again. Now that doesn't seem to be the case, Paula. When it, when we're reading through this, it looks like now young people really not flourishing as much as they have in the past.

[Paula Pant]

Yeah, you know, I think that they're, they say happiness is expectations minus reality. And I Think that as expectations have increased, the level of disappointment also has correspondingly increased for a lot of people. It used to be the case that just getting a job, having shelter, food, clothing, that level of stability would have been enough to make you happy, but now I think there's much more of a comparison game. And that feeling that a lot of young people have that they are relatively being left behind, even though in absolute terms their life might be still solid, can lead to a lot of disappointment.

[Joe Salciat]

So you're saying that because I have this device in my hand where I can FOMO over what everybody else is doing, by the way, a device in my hand not hooked up to anything, where I can watch, miraculously, videos that are beamed into me in a way that they've never been able to be beamed to me before. I'm learning that I suck versus everybody else. That's what you're saying?

[Paula Pant]

Well, I don't want to cast all the blame on social media or on the Internet. I think that that's. It's easy to do and it's a convenient scapegoat. I think that is one of. One of a multitude of factors, yeah.

[Joe Salciat]

Oh, gee. Did it surprise you that young people appear to be not really flourishing now?

[OG]

No. I mean, obviously there's a lot of outside factors. You know, Covid obviously messed up a lot of stuff, right? Education in person, learning social stuff. You know, that was just a disaster for people in different times of their lives. My kids were, I think, eighth grade and sixth grade when Covid happened, or maybe seventh and fifth perhaps. But, you know, switching to virtual learning and not being around their friends and, you know, all of that has had an effect. And then there's also obviously the financial impacts of different things, whether it's just harder to get a job or like Paula said, maybe the income isn't exactly what you thought it was going to be, and you see some social media stuff or whatever the case may be. I caught myself. I even caught myself today doing it. And I think some of it has to do with appreciation for hard work. It seems like sometimes we don't give enough credit to the effort given when people do stuff. And I just literally did it today. And I feel awful, like, having thought about it in the last, I don't know, five hours since we recorded earlier. I said, you guys remember me saying this? We were talking about kids graduating. And I said on the podcast, congratulations for doing the thing largely everyone expected you would do about graduating high school. And I know I've said that in just to My kid. And I know in some point that's funny. Hahaha. Yeah, I graduated high school. Everybody does that. But I also recognize that it was a lot of work. It's harder to go to school today than it was when I was in school. I didn't have the challenges of like, I could press the easy button, have chat GPT, give me the answer, or do photo math on my phone where I just like take a picture of a math problem and it solves it. You know, it was a different way of doing it. I didn't have the stress of social media like Paula said. So I think we do ourselves and do people around us a little bit of a disservice when with just some of the language we use that like maybe diminishes something. That was, you know, a pretty good accomplishment. Like these graduates, whether high school or otherwise, worked hard, you know, like that's, that's all they know right now. They don't know. Yeah, bricklaying yet. That's also hard work. But this is an accomplishment and we should spend more time, I think, praising people for successes as opposed to spending more time, you know, going, well, how.

[Joe Salciat]

Come you can't be better?

[OG]

That's close.

[Joe Salciat]

Yeah.

[OG]

When I play golf with Doug, it's like, you know, I'm constantly, I'm like, dude, eight's a good score, bro. You know, that's pretty good, man.

[Doug]

Everybody loves a snowman.

[OG]

That, that. Yes. No, it's like, Olaf, put another Olaf on your card. So exciting. You broke 120. Doug, high five.

[Joe Salciat]

How did this go from talking about flourishing to talk about hazing? Making sure Doug doesn't flourish?

[OG]

No, that's not hazing. It's the exact opposite of it. What I'm trying to do. Yeah, build. Build people up around you.

[Joe Salciat]

Build them up. Bad golf scores are good too. I want to stick with you for just a second because you've got your oldest OG who's right on the end of this. At 18 years old, are you seeing him really struggle with the transition from, you know, he's just finishing high school and getting ready to go into college?

[OG]

Yeah, we're, we're not at that spot yet. I mean, there's still so much of the final wrap up of, of everything going. He hasn't been in school for two and a half weeks. And I know he did say, you know, I don't know, a few days ago, like, I'm kind of bored. I need some structure. Like, I, as much as I hate getting up at 8 o' clock in the morning. That does provide some, you know, I just can't always get up at noon.

[Joe Salciat]

That's cool when he says that, you.

[OG]

Know, a little self awareness, I recognize. But it's also, you know, it's like summer break, right? There's no until he starts college. It's just another rotation of the seasons. Right. It's like, I finished or I finished class, now I get summer break. Now we start class again, but this time he's gonna start class four hours away on his own in a different town with all new people, you know.

[Joe Salciat]

Having to decide to go to class.

[OG]

To wake up to have mommy and daddy not there.

[Joe Salciat]

Yeah, nobody's there, right? Ryan, I wanted to save your initial contribution for the other side of this because it's what you do on the podcast. So we got this straight line from 18 to 40, and then between 40 and. And 50, this jump, 50 to 60 a jump. 60 to 70 a jump. People 80 and older report that they are flourishing the most. Why do you think that is? Why as we get older, do we find that we're. We're really feeling more joyful every day we get out of bed?

[Ryan Doolittle]

You know, it reminds me, I interviewed a guy who runs a horse retirement stable, for lack of a better word. It's a big, big horse retirement community of racehorses that used to be, you know, successful horses.

[Joe Salciat]

I used to be something horses.

[Doug]

Is there a glue factory right next door? And this guy's just finding multiple revenue streams.

[Ryan Doolittle]

His last name was Elmer, so I'm not sure.

[OG]

No correlation.

[Ryan Doolittle]

He said something that really. I found it made me happier just hearing it. He said, man, being old is awesome. I love being old. I like it so much better than being young. Because if I like, for example, if someone invites me to something and I don't really like them or I don't want to go, I just say no. And they go, well, he's old. Whatever. They're not offended. So I think there is something to. There's a sense of freedom of being older. There's obviously a lot more to it. You know, you might be more financially independent and. And, you know, a list of other things, but I think there is a sense of freedom. And when you're younger, you're thinking, I don't know who I am. I don't know how I'm going to get to. To be who I want to be.

[Joe Salciat]

All of that is part of it too, Ryan. I'm thinking about when I saw the Rolling Stones and Keith Richards came up to the microphone and he's like, I'm so happy to see everybody here. Jacksonville. He goes, heck, I'm just. I'm just happy to see anybody here. The way Keith Richards looks like.

[Ryan Doolittle]

Yeah, I know this is a little bit of the flip side of what you're asking me, but I. I'm less surprised about young people being unhappy now because Wes and I were just talking, and he found some research from a study by the Federal Reserve that said that because of all these financial hardships that especially millennials have been through, like the great financial crisis and I mean, they've had more of a concentrated amount of, like, bad things happen, that some of them are more scared to open a credit card than they are of dying. And I never had that thought. I'm not really that surprised by it now as much as I would have been in the past.

[Joe Salciat]

That's funny, Paula. We talked to Dr. Erica Rascher from Beyond Finance on Monday about psychology and this idea of millennials, especially to Ryan's point, just growing up at this time when, you know, good people losing their houses, smart people losing their houses, smart people declaring bankruptcy. Just some of that Horror story of 2007, 2008, when you're coming right out of college, you know, that could weigh on you.

[Paula Pant]

That was me. I was fresh out of college right at the Great Recession. So I. I'm a millennial. Fresh college right at the great.

[Joe Salciat]

Sorry, he said scoreboard.

[Doug]

What a jerk.

[Joe Salciat]

I'm a millennial.

[Paula Pant]

Millennial now is synony.

[Joe Salciat]

You gotta be Gen Z. Screw you, Paul.

[Ryan Doolittle]

Are you a geriatric, Melinda? Isn't that the pejorative term?

[Paula Pant]

Yeah, yeah, I'm not in the geriatric category, but I'm the elder millennial.

[Ryan Doolittle]

Oh, okay.

[Paula Pant]

You've got the geriatric band, and underneath that, you've got the elder millennial band.

[Joe Salciat]

You got to be kidding me.

[Paula Pant]

Yeah, yeah, seriously.

[Joe Salciat]

Gather round, children.

[OG]

These God dang kids making up all the time.

[Paula Pant]

And then bridging the gap in between millennial and Gen X. There's a. I'd say about a four, four year window of people who are right at that transition, who are the Oregon Trail generation. They're technically young Gen X, but they're close enough to millennial that they refer to themselves as Oregon Trail. So, yeah, there's a lot of differentiation right around the turning point of these generations.

[Doug]

What's your point, Paula?

[Paula Pant]

Which I think goes to show how different life experience can be just by a factor of a couple of years.

[OG]

Yeah, just a couple years. Yeah, absolutely.

[Ryan Doolittle]

When I graduated, I would be that younger Gen X, Paula. And I remember at my college graduation, the valedictorian, who by the way, was not me, said that she said something like, in a few years, this undergraduate degree won't be worth what it is. And I remember, like, I was in such a good mood because Fonzie was our speaker.

[Joe Salciat]

Henry Winkler, Really? Really?

[Ryan Doolittle]

Yeah, he gave the, like, you know, inspirational address.

[Joe Salciat]

That'd be fabulous.

[Paula Pant]

Wow.

[Ryan Doolittle]

It was pretty cool. Yeah, I gave him an A.

[Doug]

We just got set up.

[Ryan Doolittle]

And isn't that your blood type?

[Joe Salciat]

Oh, my God. And we thought Lyn Benzo was bad with those. Chris, I want to say hi to everybody who's hanging out with us in on YouTube. Chris, who is an upcoming guest on the Stacking Adventures podcast, is joining us from Belize, which is great. Andrea is in Santiago, Chile. Like, we are. We are all over the place today. Dan says, yeah, I can't compete with any of those. I'm in Baltimore. Damn. Baltimore is pretty exotic as well. And then Andrea says she's rooting for Paula's cat.

[Paula Pant]

Oh, thank you, Andrea.

[Joe Salciat]

Leonidas, who I can't not call Leonidas because they're the town of Michigan. Hello from a rare, sunny western Pennsylvania today. So great to see all of you hanging out with us live on YouTube. We generally record on Thursday afternoons. Come, come and join us Wednesday. Let's dive in, guys. What's that?

[OG]

Normally Wednesdays.

[Joe Salciat]

Oh, Wednesday, Sorry. Normally Wednesday. You're right.

[Paula Pant]

Oh, can I finish my thought on my counterintuitive thought on millennials?

[Joe Salciat]

Bring it.

[Paula Pant]

A lot of people say that. Yeah, you graduated college right into the Great Recession. That's a sucky time to be a human. I actually have the opposite perspective because by virtue of being in your early 20s or even mid-20s in 2008, like right when the market was at its bottom, our early investor life was like capturing that market bottom. And granted, in terms of like raw dollars, we didn't have a whole lot because we were at the beginning of our careers, but still, because we were in college, we never invested during those high heady years and then watched our portfolios drop. We got to come in right at 2008, 2009 and start there. And so we just saw an 11 year bull run as the first 11 years of our investing history. So I actually think being a millennial was hugely fortuitous in terms of growing a portfolio, growing your net worth.

[Joe Salciat]

But doesn't that rely on how much financial education you had? Like, if you are surrounded by people who get that.

[Paula Pant]

Yeah.

[Joe Salciat]

Then you're Right. It frankly was a phenomenal time. It was a fantastic time, man. If you started then like right now is kind of a bad time.

[Paula Pant]

Yeah.

[Joe Salciat]

Because this year, you know, the first half of this year, that six month downturn might have been, oh, gee, have we seen a six month downturn since then? Like six months are down. We generally had like, I mean, 2022 come back.

[OG]

Yeah.

[Joe Salciat]

It wasn't that like knife down, up and then just kind of malaise.

[OG]

No, no, 2022 is down.

[Joe Salciat]

Yeah.

[OG]

Like all year.

[Joe Salciat]

Sure.

[OG]

2018 was down all year. 12 was down from August to the.

[Joe Salciat]

End of the year, August to the end. Maybe I blocked it out.

[OG]

Yeah. But honestly. Yeah. What Paul is saying is, is if you, even if you didn't have any education and just went like, I don't know, 401k, I guess, like, whatever, like you said, you didn't have to plan for it or you just got lucky and part of investing is just pure luck and, you know, and timing. Right. It's just, just like you're lucky that you started investing in March of 2009. There's a bunch of people who are unlucky that retired on January of 2008.

[Paula Pant]

Yeah, exactly.

[OG]

Just a random separation of a few years.

[Paula Pant]

Yeah, I totally agree. So, yeah, I think millennials, especially elder millennials, had it really good. I think we, we are probably one of the luckiest generations in that regard.

[Ryan Doolittle]

Paula, did you have a lot of financial education at that point or.

[Paula Pant]

Mine was all from blogs. It was from reading the Free Financial Advisor. You know, it was.

[OG]

Nice.

[Joe Salciat]

Talk about why I love Ryan so much now, why I love Paula. For people that don't know. That was OG of my first blog. Yeah, Back way back in the day. All right, let's move on. Flourishing reflects job status. I want to start here because OG retired people show that they're flourishing. The most self employed people are second. Employed by someone else is third, student is fourth, homemaker is fifth. Unemployed and looking for a job is last. Anything surprising there to you?

[OG]

I don't think that there's anything surprising. No. I mean, obviously there's pros and cons about each one of those. But you know, as I read through this, you know, I just looked at the pictures. There's so many words. I just looked at the pretty pictures and I was drawn by that, that, that attracted my attention because I was like, okay, retiree, self employed. That makes a ton of sense to me because sure, if you're financially independent, assuming that you're retired and you're Financially independent. I guess that might be two separate things, but it makes sense that you're at that stage of your life. Right. You're like, okay, we're onto the next thing. Like, I feel pretty good. The kids are gone. I've raised a couple good humans. Like, I'm in the grandkids stage where I can send them back. You know, like, that's a fun time. And being entrepreneur, I. I don't know. I don't know why anybody would not do it. From my perspective, because while there's a lot of stress that goes with it, there's so much freedom. And specifically around time. And then, as you know, your business does better. Money freedom, where it's like, you can design whatever sort of life you want to design. And to me, that's kind of the ultimate freedom. Perspective is, do I get to do what I want to do when I want to do it? And if I can control most of those things, then I feel pretty good.

[Joe Salciat]

Well, Ryan, does retire, being at the top of this, does that correlate, you think, with financial independence or like OG says, the flexibility that I don't have to show up at work every day?

[Ryan Doolittle]

I think it's what OG said about doing whatever you want to do whenever you want to do it. That's what we have found has been really the new definition of retirement, at least for the happy retirees. What people always associate retirement with is sitting in the La Z boy. And, you know, I'm. I'm not going to go to work, so I'm automatically happy. And it's really not about not doing anything. It's about not doing the things you don't like doing, which is often, like going to the office and doing whatever your boss wanted you to do. So that. That part is really, really on point for everything that I've learned.

[Joe Salciat]

But how much does the. The money play into? It just. It gives you the ability to do that, to wake up every day and do whatever the hell you want to.

[Ryan Doolittle]

Yeah. From what we found, the money's important, obviously, but only to get you to where you can.

[Joe Salciat]

It's the fuel.

[Ryan Doolittle]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. There's some. What is that? Maslow's hierarchy?

[Joe Salciat]

Sure. Yeah.

[Ryan Doolittle]

If you don't have food, you can't, like, enjoy reading. You know, it's like, whatever. Yeah. So you need the money, but it's not really the end.

[Joe Salciat]

All right. If Doug doesn't have the drinks, he can't test the liver, which makes him happy.

[Ryan Doolittle]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Doug]

Why do I feel like this is an intervention for me.

[Joe Salciat]

Doug, there's a reason we called you here today. Paula, I want to talk to you about something else that's on here. If you talk to a lot of self employed people or you just look at this from afar, you're like, man stuff, being self employed, being the boss, that's, that's somebody who's stressed out all the time. Like this is just, you know, you're the backstop. You know, you employ X number of people that afford anything.

[Paula Pant]

Yeah.

[Joe Salciat]

Self employed, though, tracks happier than the safety of working in a business for somebody else.

[Paula Pant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes complete sense to me. You know, there's that expression, you'll, you'll work 80 hours in order to not work 40. Yeah.

[Joe Salciat]

Avoid 40 hours for somebody else, right?

[Paula Pant]

Yeah, yeah. You'll work 80 hours for yourself in order to not work 40 for someone else. And that's, that's totally true. There's research that shows that the three qualities that often correlate with workplace happiness are autonomy, mastery, and purpose. And I think that when you yourself are the boss, when you're calling the shots, when it's your company and your project, you have all three of those. You have autonomy, you have the potential to develop mastery. And there's typically a purpose behind why you're doing it.

[OG]

Yeah.

[Joe Salciat]

Why is OG, do you think, Homemaker at the bottom of this one? Is it a sense of, I don't know, guilt that you're not bringing in the paycheck somebody else is? Is it the fact that you're the backstop for the family to be taking everybody, you know, you're managing the house? Is it underappreciation? Like why, why do you think Homemaker's so far down on this?

[OG]

Yeah, I, I mean, obviously I don't know because that's not a role that I have. But the first thing that I thought was underappreciation? That would be my first guess. I can't prove that. But I think a lot of it has to do. I mean, anything has to do with roles and responsibilities and making sure that everybody's on the same page. I certainly can't speak for my wife on how she feels about this, but when she decided to stay at home with the kids, we set out a bunch of rules like who's going to be doing this and who's not going to be doing this. And so she doesn't do some stuff and I don't do a bunch of stuff. Now on occasion she'll say, hey, is there any chance I know you're busy can you go do this thing for me? And it's, yeah, of course. If I can figure it out, I will. Just like she would. But I don't know where she would rank on this. Honestly, I don't know where she would, where she would want to put herself.

[Joe Salciat]

Yeah. Ryan or Paula, you guys have any other insight into why homemaker be so low here?

[Paula Pant]

My hypothesis is if a person were to dig deeper into that, there's probably a distinction between people who aspired to be homemakers, like that was what they really wanted to do, versus people who kind of felt like they were forced into it based on circumstance. I had friends in college, even when we were 18, 19 years old, who were like, my goal in life. I want to be a stay at home mom. I think they would be very happy, you know, or like, or are likely to be happy in that role. Whereas I know a few other people who are like, I didn't really want to, but we took a look at what the cost of daycare looked like and we took, we just took a look at the numbers and it didn't make sense.

[Joe Salciat]

Taking one for the team.

[Paula Pant]

Yeah. So they were like, even though I didn't want to, I felt like I didn't have financially. I felt like I didn't have any other choice because I just couldn't afford the cost of childcare and getting a house cleaner and all of that.

[Joe Salciat]

Yeah. Maybe putting your goals on the bottom shelf for the good of everybody else. Leonidas was back on when we were talking about Millennials. Agrees with Paula. Got my first house at the bottom of the housing crisis and had a 10 year bull run. Hashtag winning. It was. I mean, I feel like that's part of a growth mentality too. Right. It's like, okay, it's either the worst of times or the best of times. Doug.

[Doug]

Paula got me thinking about this. People who maybe don't find satisfaction of that being a homemaker, it's because they're looking externally for validation. And generally Western society is not putting a lot of reward and value and hip, hip, hooray on homemakers. We don't often completely lift them up and say what an incredibly valuable thing you're doing raising children and managing the home, which is like a business. Right. Managing the home is like a business. There's a huge value there. But generally you don't see a lot of that reinforced in social media.

[Joe Salciat]

And your brother is the homemaker in his family, right?

[Doug]

He was for the whole time his kids were growing up and until recently. And I Mean, they just kind of threw traditional rules out the window, and it was great.

[Joe Salciat]

Was he flourishing, do you think, or not?

[Doug]

Let's, let's, let's move on to the trivia. Joe.

[Joe Salciat]

That's a. It's a whole different thing.

[Doug]

It's a whole different thing.

[Joe Salciat]

Back to Leonidas. I'm gonna stumble on that word over and over and over. I'm a stay at home mom, and so far it's my favorite job. She says, raising our sons. Exactly what I want to do. Speaking of moving on to the trivia, it is that time. And at the halfway point of the stack of Benjamin's show, if you're new, here is where we have this amazing Friday competition between our three frequent contributors, Paula, OG And Jesse. And, Ryan, you're playing for Team Jesse today, which means we got some good news for you and some bad news. Which one of those would you like first?

[Ryan Doolittle]

I'll take the bad news.

[Joe Salciat]

Well, the bad news is you're not winning. You are tied for second, which means you're tied for last.

[Ryan Doolittle]

So, hey, I'm used to that position, so it's fine.

[Joe Salciat]

OG has six, you and Jesse have four and a half, and Paula has four and a half. So because Team Jesse beat Team Paula last year, that means OG will guess first, you will guess second, Ryan and Paula will guess last. All right, so that's the way we play it. And for each of these, of course, we need a question. And that's where Doug comes back. Doug, what do you got, man?

[Doug]

Hey there, stackers. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And get ready to rev those brain engines, because here comes today's trivia question. I know we've been talking about flourishing for these last 25 minutes, but you want to flourish? I mean, do you really want to flourish? Well, let creepy old Uncle Doug make it simple for you. How would an extra 2.5 mil in your pocket feel, huh? Would that make you smile? I said, would that make you smile?

[Joe Salciat]

Yes.

[Doug]

There we go. Okay, well, that could be you if you just got extra good at turning left. Because that's how much Money an Indy 500 winner takes home if they win. And today's date back in 1911 is the anniversary of the first running of this iconic Midwestern race. And while you may think running means they ran down the track, I'm told they actually use cars. Innovation. Hey, Ray Haroun won the inaugural event pocketing a whopping $14,000 back then. It's about 450, 50,000 today. But here's today's fun question. How long did that first race take? I love the look on our contributors faces when I come up with the question. Just total blank terror. I'll be back right after I see how long it takes me to get the garbage to the curb. Joe's mom says it's for research purposes. Pay attention to science, kids.

[OG]

All right.

[Joe Salciat]

The Indy 500 run last weekend. If we weren't recording ahead of time, we would have told you who won, but we have no idea. OG your first, first race way back in 1911. How long did the Indy 500 mile race take?

[OG]

I'm somewhat of a fan of the Indy 500 having attended two of them. I feel like this is something I should know. It seems like it's written down somewhere. It's on a placard somewhere. Here was the running. It took Bob this many days to complete it.

[Joe Salciat]

Outside the race or something, sort of under the stands.

[OG]

Yeah. Or came up in conversation. I'm gonna say that the first one, let's see. So I was, I was like, man, I hope he asked how fast is the fastest lap ever. Because I'm pretty sure I know that to like the, the miles per hour in the thousands.

[Joe Salciat]

Well, but I'm glad we said no to that one.

[Doug]

Yeah, we talked about that.

[OG]

Yeah, no, I felt pretty good about that one. Okay, so 1911, those are the facts. The Indy 500, they're racing Model Ts, you know, going 19 miles an hour. So I'm going to say that it. They really exceeded the speed of sound here. They, they were blowing people away. They were going 50 some odd miles an hour. Maybe 75, maybe 100. Split the difference. I'm gonna say it took five hours to do it.

[Joe Salciat]

Five hours. Ryan, what do you want to do with that? What do you. What Was your thought? 5 hours. High or low?

[Ryan Doolittle]

I think that's a little low. I, I use a very. So act. People don't know this, but indies are a unit of measurement. So it took. It took 500 indies to finish the race. So for, for. Yeah, that's.

[Joe Salciat]

We gotta convert that to indies to hours. What's the conversion on that? Do you got your conversion calculator?

[Ryan Doolittle]

Yeah. Let me see. I always go to metric and then I go back to indies and then so hours it'd be. I'd say it took 7.9 hours.

[Joe Salciat]

7.9 hours, what would that be? 7 hours and 55 minutes. Would that be 54 minutes?

[Paula Pant]

7 hours, 54 minutes.

[Joe Salciat]

7 hours and 54.

[Ryan Doolittle]

I was going to Say that. Thank you, Paul.

[Joe Salciat]

We beat him to it. Yeah. All right, Paula, you got 7 hours and 54 minutes and 5 hours.

[Paula Pant]

I'm gonna take the under. So I will go.

[Joe Salciat]

They went faster.

[OG]

Let's not help her with the logic.

[Joe Salciat]

I'm not questioning. I didn't mean to be questioning. I'm just sounded like question mark if.

[Doug]

I ever heard one.

[Paula Pant]

That just seems like a very long time. Yeah, I'll take the under. Why not? Okay, so OG's guess was five hours. So I'll go 4 hours and 59 minutes and 59 seconds.

[Doug]

Wow.

[Joe Salciat]

There it is. She caps him off at the knees. That's the way the game is played. Who's right? We're going to find out. Just a minute. We'll be right back.

[Paula Pant]

At Capella University, you can learn at your own pace with our Flexpath learning format. Take one or two courses at a time and complete as many as you can in a 12 week billing session. With Flexpath, you can even finish the bachelor's degree you started in 22 months for $20,000. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more at capella.edu. fastest 25% of students. Cost varies by pace. Transfer credits and other Factors. Fees apply.

[Joe Salciat]

McCrispy strips are now at McDonald's. I hope you're ready for the most.

[Ryan Doolittle]

Dippable chicken in McDonald's.

[Joe Salciat]

Dip it in all the sauces. Dip it in that hot sauce in your bag. Dip it in your McFlurry. Your dip is your business. McCrispy strips at McDonald's. Does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the void? Well, with LinkedIn ads, you can know you're reaching the right decision makers. You can even target buyers by job title, industry, company seniority skills. Wait, did I say job title yet? Get started today and see how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads. We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. Get [e-mail] results. Terms and conditions apply. All right, OG, you started off with five hours, which seemed really good until Paula took away half of your win. How you feeling?

[OG]

Yeah, I, you know, I just said 100 miles an hour. I don't know that that's right. It might be like 50 miles an hour.

[Joe Salciat]

So you think it might have taken longer?

[OG]

Yeah, yeah, I think, I think it's longer than five.

[Joe Salciat]

Wow.

[OG]

I was trying to pick a number that somebody initially would think is grossly too high, and I got right with half of them. Half of them. Got it.

[Ryan Doolittle]

You wanted us all to pick under that.

[OG]

Yeah, I did. Like. Oh, my gosh, 5 hours, 85 hours. Like 2 hours and 10 minutes now.

[Joe Salciat]

Well, you didn't take the bait, Ryan. You feeling pretty good after OG me a CPLA there?

[Ryan Doolittle]

I do. Because it's my understanding Jesse gets really angry when people screw up his score.

[Joe Salciat]

You know Jesse. Jesse Kramer's angry guy. How would that guy. Could you imagine that guy angry? I just. I can't. Yeah. So, Paula, four hours and 59 minutes. And OG thinks he ran it too quickly, so yours will be even quicker. You feel good?

[Paula Pant]

You know what? I'm not feeling good about this answer, actually, but.

[Joe Salciat]

Well, Paula, you trusted your gut and it hasn't worked for 10 years in a row. Like. All right, Doug, who is going to win this Indy 500 flavor trivia today?

[Doug]

One second, Joe. I've got a lot of math to do.

[OG]

You don't have to do that. No one likes it.

[Doug]

No, only you don't like it, and I do it.

[OG]

One person was 1 hour, 11 minutes and 19 seconds.

[Joe Salciat]

Too high.

[OG]

One guy was 1 hour, 19 minutes and 12 seconds to just freaking say the answer. We can do the math ourselves.

[Joe Salciat]

Andrea is wondering how many numbers can OG Use in a single sentence? Yeah, back when you were guessing.

[OG]

It's just.

[Joe Salciat]

That's so good.

[Doug]

Okay, here we go.

[OG]

You done?

[Doug]

The calculus has been completed.

[OG]

Can we catch?

[Doug]

Ready to roll?

[OG]

Okay, thanks.

[Doug]

Hey there, stackers. I'm superfast garbage collector and guy who now smells like a week old litter box left out in the sun. Joe's mind, Tom's neighbor, Doug. While the first running of the Indy 500 didn't take a week, it sure took a lot longer than races today. While current races are completed in around three hours. So let's call it 180 minutes. Right. That 1911 race took 372 minutes less than what Ryan guessed. 103 less than what, Paul? Excuse me.

[Joe Salciat]

More.

[Doug]

And 102. More than what jerk face guessed because the correct answer is 402 minutes and some change making. Oh, gr.

[Joe Salciat]

So 402 minutes, 6 hours and 42 minutes.

[Doug]

6 hours and 42 minutes.

[Joe Salciat]

6 Hours and 42 Minutes.

[OG]

Hold on. What did Ryan guess?

[Joe Salciat]

Yeah, Ryan was closer.

[Ryan Doolittle]

I was seven hours and so he.

[Joe Salciat]

Was an hour and ten minutes. So he.

[OG]

Ryan won.

[Joe Salciat]

Ryan's off by 70 minutes.

[OG]

God. Pay attention. Good job, Ryan.

[Ryan Doolittle]

Look on Doug's face.

[OG]

One of us is off by an hour and 40 minutes. There, math genius. And one of us is off by an hour and 10 minutes trying to.

[Doug]

Convert all of it to minutes. And you got. I got.

[Joe Salciat]

Doug, if you. Have you been testing your liver already today?

[Doug]

Yeah.

[OG]

I'm glad that this has backfired in a spectacular fashion on a public display.

[Doug]

Great day for O.G.

[OG]

Yes.

[Joe Salciat]

Congratulations, Ryan.

[OG]

Good job, Ryan.

[Ryan Doolittle]

Thank you so much. Thank you.

[OG]

Even though the judges officially gave me the point, I will cede it to you.

[Doug]

Oh, gee. Still a jerk.

[Joe Salciat]

Could you imagine sitting out there for. For six hours, OG Having been there?

[OG]

I have been there for six hours. It's called a rain delay.

[Joe Salciat]

Oh, really?

[Ryan Doolittle]

Yeah.

[Joe Salciat]

I went to the brickyard 400 twice, and just being in that. Which is the NASCAR equivalent race that they run, it's shorter, obviously, the 400, but that's just a cool place to be.

[OG]

Yeah. A good answer.

[Joe Salciat]

Whether you like racing or not, just being in the stands with all these people at this iconic racetrack, Pretty neat place to be. I'd love to go to the Indy 500. Would be a lot of fun. Let's get back into something else that I've really been enjoying, which is what makes people flourish and this recent study that was done on the topic. I want to talk about this idea, Ryan, of religious attendance. People that take part in religious. I don't. Ceremonies, I guess we'll call it. More than once a week are the happiest. If they go once a week, they are happy, but not as happy one to three times a month. Less happy. If they never go, they're. They're way unhappier. Did that surprise you?

[Ryan Doolittle]

No, it didn't. Because for Wes's last book, it was called what the Happiest Retirees Know. And that's funny.

[Joe Salciat]

I have it right here in front of me.

[Ryan Doolittle]

Oh.

[Joe Salciat]

Oh, wow.

[Ryan Doolittle]

That's great. I'll send you a check later. But we interviewed about 2,000 retirees and found that they were 1.5 times more likely to be happy if they attend church once per week. And attending twice per year seemed to be like the bare minimum of being somewhat happy. Who knows what exactly that says about it? It didn't really get specific about religions. It was just like that, that thing, you know, that community support, which is kind of what the article was saying, too.

[Joe Salciat]

Well, and that also is interesting, Paula, because we're going to do a week about retirement accumulation planning. And as we're setting, we're going to be interviewing the creators of a documentary that came out a couple years ago called Join or Die, which is a documentary about how if we Belong to some group that's bigger than us. Maybe not religious, maybe it's the Kiwanis, the Rotary club. But it could be your church that you are more likely to feel happiness. Do you think it's the act of joining or do you think there's even something more with the fact that we're in a worship service?

[Paula Pant]

I think with religion, it's two things. Part of it is a belief in a higher power, and I think that belief can have a lot of positive effects in your life. And then in addition to that, there's also the community element. There's a major, major community element when it comes to church or temple or synagogue or any kind of religious ceremony. And so I think it's the combination of the two.

[Joe Salciat]

Oh, gee, were you surprised at all by this?

[OG]

No, not in the least bit. Not on the religious group type of thing. I mean, it provides grounding and hope. And regardless of what religion it is, they all have a similar flow to the thing, which is do some good stuff. Don't be a jackass. People are looking out for you. It just provides a little bit of like, ah, it's okay.

[Joe Salciat]

I want to hear that sermon, by the way, the don't be a jackass sermon.

[OG]

Don't be a jackass.

[Joe Salciat]

Very blunt minister.

[Ryan Doolittle]

Yeah, I think it's also. I don't have stats on this, but it seems like it's also just like a sense of meditation. It's an hour where you can't look at your phone or think about the Indy 500. I guess you could think about the Indy 500, but you couldn't actually watch it.

[Joe Salciat]

Is it worth think about Ryan or gloat? Would the word be gloat?

[Ryan Doolittle]

About how you don't think about winning. Some say that was a better win than the person who won the Indy 500.

[Joe Salciat]

Winning on the Stacking Benjamin show. Sherbeats doing the. Doing the real thing. Paula, are you going to say something?

[Paula Pant]

Oh, I was going to say if you think you can't look at your phone in church, you've never watched the Simpsons.

[Joe Salciat]

Well, Paula, let's stick with you because we hear people say women are flourishing less, men are flourishing less. And certainly there are different ways where we can say this segment of the population is really struggling in this area more than others. But when it comes to this study, just not money, but this overall happiness, men and women almost exactly even. Did that surprise you?

[Paula Pant]

Yeah, no, it doesn't. Doesn't surprise me at all because I think both men and women are dealing with Struggles, you know, and they might be different types of struggles, but they're, like, both dealing with struggles. We live in this era of outrage media, where there's a huge industry of people who get paid to make us angry and who get paid to make us tribalistic. And I think that that outrage media has created this narrative that we now live in this era of men versus women, when, in fact, the reality is it's not men versus women. It's us together dealing with the fact that we live in a cold, inhospitable universe in which death is the final outcome. It is us together dealing with that. But we can forget that, because there are a lot of people who get paid to make us tribal.

[OG]

Well, that sounds way better Paula than.

[Doug]

Paula's not getting invited on the happiness podcast anytime soon.

[OG]

That sounds way better than being angry at girls. Way we're all in it together, and we all end up in this cold, lifeless location that we're barely trying to survive.

[Doug]

You just got done reading Camus, didn't you? There's no point.

[OG]

I know. Just sucks.

[Doug]

Life's a joke.

[Joe Salciat]

You could see Paula's religious optimism right there. Going back to the religious part, Ryan, does that change as people get older, though? Do you find women or men are happier in their retirement years?

[Ryan Doolittle]

We didn't necessarily find a discrepancy between men and women.

[Joe Salciat]

So just like in this study, men.

[Ryan Doolittle]

Women, we didn't delve so much into the gender of it. So it's really hard for me to say. I mean, it. As far as health, women's health seemed to last longer. There was one interesting aspect we had found. In fact, Wes interviewed a neuroscientist who studied primates. He found that male primates struggled to keep social. Like, they. They sort of gave up on socializing as they got older, really. And the women primates seem to do it much easier and better. And that, at least to my eye, that. That correlates to humans.

[OG]

This is like a research study on.

[Ryan Doolittle]

Are Doug, are you the one of those guys that's like, yeah, my friends are. Whoever my wife's friends are type of thing? Or.

[Doug]

Yeah, I'm not very. You can tell. I'm an introvert. I'm not very social, so I just kind of glom on to.

[Joe Salciat]

Yeah, but you're saying men tend to isolate as they get older.

[Ryan Doolittle]

Yeah, I don't know exactly why, but, yeah, they tend to. Like, you'll see that. Okay, that muscle almost atrophies or something. You know, they stop trying planned obsolesis and so that leads to problems in retirement because especially with retirements lasting longer nowadays, like say you've got 20 years without friends, that's, that's a problem. Whereas in the past maybe your retirement was so much shorter you might be able to get away with it.

[Joe Salciat]

You know, it is a sad statistic that I heard maybe back in January is the highest rate of suicide is among men over age 70.

[Ryan Doolittle]

Oh, wow.

[Joe Salciat]

So the isolation thing, very, very, very much problematic. Speaking of problematic, childhood events, they talk about determine whether you are going to flourish or not. On the upside, if you had excellent health as a child, you flourished more often. If you were, in my case, dragged to religious Services at age 12, you have a good relationship with your mother, very good health. And then as you went down, things get worse. If your parents were divorced, then if you felt your family had a hard time financially, it was even worse. If your parents were single, your parents died, fair health, felt like an outsider near the bottom. And of course, poor health and experienced abuse. I don't think, Paul, any of this surprises you that your happiness kind of can, can stem from a sort of, I guess, PTSD from childhood?

[Paula Pant]

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Those are, those are the most impressionable years.

[Joe Salciat]

Did anything about that surprise you?

[OG]

OG no. I'll tell you the one thing, I don't know if you're going to get to it, so tell me you're going to get to it. The thing I was most surprised by or I found interesting, I don't know, surprise, was the areas of the world because they did this.

[Joe Salciat]

That's where I want to go next. Yeah.

[OG]

22 different areas, I think is what it said. Right. Different demographics and it was just mind boggling. So I'll do the transition. But it was really interesting in what we would think in very Western contemporary culture of gross excess, we would think, oh, based on everything else, we've got it great, you know, but we must be the cat's meow of where everything is. It's like, nope, Indonesia, Thailand, Mexico, Morocco. And you're going, wait, what? Those, those places don't have any of the stuff that we do. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

[Joe Salciat]

Yeah, that was, that was why I wanted to end here on this point. OG for that very reason. Because if there was anything that proves that flourishing isn't just about the money.

[OG]

Yeah. It's just not, it's not money at all. It is this.

[Joe Salciat]

Having gone to Indonesia, those people are not what I would say, flourishing.

[OG]

Yeah. They don't have the same money that you do.

[Joe Salciat]

That was an incredibly, incredibly poor country. Ryan, did this surprise you that Indonesia was on top? Mexico second, Philippines number three.

[Ryan Doolittle]

You know, it surprised me a little. Not because I think you have to be wealthy, but I, I thought they might be lower. I mean, there's a plateau effect, certainly where you. Like we were talking about earlier, you make a little bit or, you know, the money helps you get to where you need to go. So I wasn't sure they would have enough to get there, but it sounds like they do. And maybe that figure's lower than I thought it was.

[Joe Salciat]

Yeah.

[Paula Pant]

Paula, what strikes me about this is that those are all emerging markets. Right. Emerging economies. And so there's a lot of. We were talking earlier about hope. Right. There's a lot of. The younger generation is doing better than their parents, and the parents are doing better than their grandparents. And so you're seeing a lot of progress. You're seeing a lot of hope. Every successive generation does better than the previous generation. I think that when you have an economy that's emerging and things are constantly getting better and you know that the next generation is probably going to have it even better, which is what every parent wants for their kid. I think that that, combined with, like, strong community ties can result in a lot of happiness. Because it strikes me that there are also countries, there are plenty of countries where there may be strong community ties, but there's no economic hope. Right. Like, it strikes me that Syria and Somalia and Afghanistan are not on this list.

[Joe Salciat]

Yeah.

[Paula Pant]

Despite the fact that you have very strong community and very strong family ties there as well. So I think it's that emerging economy. Right. That the future will be better than the past. That really makes a difference.

[Doug]

I don't know, Paula. I think the next white Lotus location is going to be in Afghanistan.

[Joe Salciat]

White Lotus, Afghanistan.

[Paula Pant]

White Lotus, Kabul. Kabul used to be the Paris of the. Of the west or of the East.

[Doug]

The Paris of the front lines.

[Paula Pant]

Yeah.

[Ryan Doolittle]

Wait, this lotus is a poppy seed and it's being used. Trafficked.

[Joe Salciat]

Yeah. Whole different show. Brazil, Poland on the list. By the way, we've been talking a lot about Poland. Next week's show, we're going to be talking about Poland a little bit. And, Paula, you and I talked about how well the stock market's done a Poland this year as well. People pretty happy there. You know, what's wild is that I've seen other studies that show that people in the Nordic regions. Right. Are the, quote, happiest people on earth, and I'm not seeing any of those Countries on this list, I don't know if they were included or not included. Maybe that's it. I don't know. But I'm not seeing that former research, those people showing up. United States, number 15 on this list, by the way. It's interesting we talk about flourishing when it comes to flourishing. OG help us put a cap on this. What do you think flourishing has to do with, with finance?

[OG]

What does it have to do with finance? I mean, the more comfortable you are with your circumstances, like Paula said, in terms of hope and optimism, that's really the biggest thing. You know, I think that when it comes to making decisions about money or decisions about the future, if you can give yourself the most opportunity for choices in the future, like not locking yourself into one decision or not making the biggest mortgage purchase that you can, exactly up to what the bank will allow you so that every single day you have to exactly be on budget every single minute of every single day to afford it. Giving yourself flexibility and choices equates to, in my opinion, flexibility, which is probably one of the biggest features or factors in being happy.

[Joe Salciat]

Ryan, how about for you?

[Ryan Doolittle]

Well, first of all, I was surprised that India wasn't higher on that because they, I mean, a little bit of what Paula was saying. They seem like an emerging market. Maybe they're more emerged and so maybe that's why, but they seem like they're on the way up. And like you would be that, that thing where you're doing better than your parents.

[Joe Salciat]

India down there, by the way, right around the United States, right in the same general, general spot.

[Ryan Doolittle]

And, and that's one of the big things I hear people say here is for the first time, kids are doing worse than their parents or something. Right. So there's like, not, obviously that's not everyone, but that might play a big role in why we're lower on that list. So I don't know. It was really eye opening. I, I was surprised by some of these countries and like you said, the Nordic regions, maybe they weren't included because I thought they would be up there.

[Joe Salciat]

Yeah, I would have thought so too, that we would have seen Norway, Denmark on there. But money, how do you think money plays into this?

[Ryan Doolittle]

I think money plays into everything to some degree. But when you start looking at it as the savior is when you get into trouble. But if you just make the right choices and get to where you have, it's all about getting that flexibility. And I'm kind of saying what someone else said with that, but if you can get to where you're flexible enough to do the things that make you happy. You're in the driver's seat and you can win the Indy 500 because like that's what it, that's really the purpose. But some people like they make money and then, and then they're like, well I got this dopamine rush for making money. So I want to, I guess that's what I need to do is just keep making more money. And that doesn't really go anywhere.

[Joe Salciat]

And that may go back to what we talked about earlier, Paula, about self employed, being employed by somebody else. Is that flexibility Ryan's talking about? What does it mean for you? Where does money fit into it for you?

[Paula Pant]

Well, I think money simply gives you choices. It gives you choices, it gives you options. And when you have choice and choices and options about your life, you are likely to be happier because whatever it is that you are doing or you know, experiencing or buying is something that you chose, right? It's something that you freely chose. And if you dislike it then you can choose a different path. And so it gives you the ability to, to take control over your life rather than to be controlled by a lack of money.

[Joe Salciat]

And I love the fact that it's only one part like you still have to choose. You know, when you were talking about coming out of the financial crisis, you know, you can choose to have that be the weight or you can choose that. That was a heck of a place to start from. You choose to be work for somebody else there be even if you do work for somebody to be an entrepreneur or you know, be an entrepreneur. Certainly there's the childhood trauma stuff. You don't choose that and I think that's important. But looking at joining and this idea of the religious aspect is really, really pretty interesting. We will link to this on our show notes@stacking benjamins.com for all of our stackers that want to take a look at this really really wonderful study with some, some pretty surprising results. Let's find out because you guys are always doing surprising stuff. So we'll have our guest of honor go last here. But OG what do you got going on this fine post Memorial Day weekend?

[OG]

Well, I'm lucky enough to have my in laws still in town for just the last part of this two and a half week visit. So really blessed to be able to hang out with them. I will be spending the weekend at a golf tournament so sadly they're going to have to hang out at my house and without you there I'm going to miss those last Few days.

[Joe Salciat]

I know how heartbroken you are.

[OG]

We've been fortunate enough to have them around for the last 17 days and some change. Who's counting? But, you know, we're just beyond blessed. Hashtag blessed flourishing.

[Joe Salciat]

Paula, what's going on at the Afford Anything podcast?

[Paula Pant]

So, on the Afford Anything podcast, we have an interview with Robert Rosenkrantz. He is a billionaire who talks about how he made his money. It's really interesting because right up until when he talks about the work that he did in his 20s and early 30s, it's all like, very, very, very relatable. He's telling his story and you're like, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. That feels like my 20s. Yeah. By 25. Yeah. By 35. Yeah. I can relate to that. And then like post 35, it just becomes, nope.

[Doug]

Whoa.

[Joe Salciat]

He did some amazing stuff, huh?

[Paula Pant]

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And so we talk about that he strongly believes in stoicism. And so we talk about the stoic philosophy and how that plays a role in any type of business enterprise or any type of financial enterprise, like in. In anything that you want to do. How stoicism can play a role in it.

[Joe Salciat]

That's awesome. And that's at the Afford Anything podcast, where finer podcasts are listened to or found the finest. Only the finest. Speaking of finest, Ryan, thanks a lot for hanging out with us today, man, this was fun. Thank you so much.

[Ryan Doolittle]

I. I had a really great time. So, you know, kicking our butt at the honor was all mine. Yeah.

[Joe Salciat]

All right, so what's going on at the Happiest Retirees Podcast? What's coming up?

[Ryan Doolittle]

What I actually was gonna plug is I. I'm starting a new video series called Tryin Ryan. It's where I go out and actually try some of these. Well, we call them Core Pursuits. It's bit like a hobby on steroids that we found that the happiest retirees need 3.6 core pursuits to be happy.

[Joe Salciat]

I always feel bad for that 0.61, by the way, the one you're putting a half assing.

[Ryan Doolittle]

I know. So I decided to just go out and try some of these things and hopefully like by showing people that I'm doing it and oftentimes not doing it well, but having fun, they might actually be inspired by it. So the first episode, I learned how to cook Puerto Rican food from my wife.

[Joe Salciat]

Oh, man.

[Ryan Doolittle]

Yeah. Wow, that was tasty.

[Joe Salciat]

I gotta live closer to you.

[Ryan Doolittle]

I know. I hate. You're welcome to move in if you need to. And then the second episode's going to be I'm taking tennis lessons. So, like, you know, we got a balance between, like, enjoying food and then burning the calories off.

[Joe Salciat]

It's a good one, two punch. That's nice.

[Ryan Doolittle]

Exactly.

[OG]

Yeah.

[Joe Salciat]

Yeah. You get to test your liver enzymes during this. Is that going to be a corpus?

[Ryan Doolittle]

Yeah.

[Joe Salciat]

And that's at the Happiest Retirees podcast, where, of course, also the finest podcasts are listened to wherever you're listening to us now. All right, that's gonna do for today. Big thanks to everybody hanging out with us from all over the world on YouTube today. Thanks a lot for, well, just being here with us, I guess.

[Doug]

Just for being you.

[Joe Salciat]

Just for being you. Thank you for being a stacker. And as I mentioned, most of the time we're here on Wednesday. Today we're here on Thursday making the show. Doug, you always make the show go bye bye by telling us what we should have learned today.

[Doug]

Nobody can wrap up a party like me, Joe. First, take some advice from Paula. When she revealed the pointlessness of life in a bleak, frozen T.S. eliot like wasteland. Care to elaborate, Paula?

[Paula Pant]

Sure. It's us together in this darkness in which we will soon be forgotten. And eventually the sun will turn into a red giant and explode, and everything that you've ever known will dissolve into a fiery hellscape.

[Joe Salciat]

I can't figure out why the US Is further down on the scale with great, optimistic people like Paula.

[Doug]

Second, don't forget Captain Grumpypants sermon on flourishing and not being a jackass. Hey, og, can you summarize that for us?

[OG]

Yeah. If you go to church, just listen for the sermon about don't be a jackass, and then you'll be. You'll be inspired moving forward. Word to be nice to people, I guess. I don't know. I haven't paid attention to that one.

[Doug]

Yet, but you heard about it.

[Joe Salciat]

I'd actually recommend to all the stackers out there, go to your religious leader and request it. Like, could you talk to us about not being a jackass? Use those exact words.

[OG]

Paraphrase just a smidge. Your honor. If you can't, I don't know what you. What do you call them?

[Doug]

Your Eminency.

[OG]

Your highness. If you're not allowed to use the word jackass, but I didn't see it on a Mountain Dew commercial, so I guess it's okay.

[Doug]

But the big lesson, don't get Joe's mom stuck on finding out how fast everything is. Now she says we need to test my speed at mowing her lawn. Amanda. Ma, it's Time to drop my El Camino engine into the tractor. Thanks to Ryan Doolittle for joining us today. You'll find Ryan happily hosting the Happiest Retirees podcast. We'll also include links in our show [e-mail] thanks to Paula Pant for hanging out with us today. You'll find her joyously pontificating and using all the polysyllabic words on Afford anything available wherever you listen to finer podcasts. And finally, thanks to jerkface OG for joining us today. Looking for good financial blaming out it was because he corrected me in the trivia thing. I'm a little bit bitter. Looking for good financial planning help, head to stackingbenjamins.com OG for his calendar.

[Joe Salciat]

Wait a minute. You're bitter because he helped you get the trivia right?

[Doug]

It's just the way it was, the tone of voice, really. I just needed a hug and he punched me in the face. But yes, he was right to correct me. I was trying to convert to minutes and I did the math wrong.

[Joe Salciat]

Well, you were thinking. Thinking in indie units. That was the problem.

[Doug]

Yeah. This show is the property of SP Podcasts, LLC, Copyright 2025, and is created by Josal Sehive. Joe gets help from a few of our neighborhood friends. You'll find out about our awesome [e-mail] along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello.

[Joe Salciat]

Oh, yeah.

[Doug]

And before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don't take advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and we'll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show.