Is Your Brain Blocking Your Financial Goals? (with Jessica Moorhouse) SB1636

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Stacking Benjamins Show – "Is Your Brain Blocking Your Financial Goals? (with Jessica Morehouse)" SB1636

Release Date: January 27, 2025

In this insightful episode of The Stacking Benjamins Show, hosts Joe Saul-Sehy and OG delve deep into the psychological barriers that hinder financial success with their guest, Jessica Morehouse, host of the More Money podcast and author of the book Everything But Money. Recognized for making financial literacy engaging, this episode unpacks the intricate relationship between our emotions, mindset, and financial behaviors.

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1. Introduction of Jessica Morehouse

The episode welcomes Jessica Morehouse, who shares her personal journey and the inspiration behind her book. Jessica emphasizes the importance of understanding the emotional facets of money management, stating:

"When you put a name on your emotion, it gives it power and helps you address underlying issues."
— Jessica Morehouse (10:24)

2. The Link Between Mindset and Financial Behavior

Jessica discusses how financial challenges often stem from deeper psychological issues rather than just numbers and budgets. She highlights that:

"It's not about the dollars and cents; it's about what's going on in your mind and emotions."
— Jessica Morehouse (12:17)

3. Emotional Barriers: Shame, Guilt, and Anxiety

A significant portion of the conversation revolves around emotions like shame, guilt, envy, and despair, and how they affect our financial decisions. Jessica explains:

"Feelings like shame and guilt are not inherently bad; they're signals that can guide positive change."
— Jessica Morehouse (35:28)

4. Identifying and Labeling Emotions

Jessica introduces the concept of labeling emotions related to money as a foundational step toward overcoming financial obstacles. She shares:

"Labeling how you feel about money makes the emotion real and actionable."
— Jessica Morehouse (24:38)

5. Money Origin Stories and Their Impact

Exploring "money origin stories," Jessica illustrates how early experiences shape our financial behaviors. She recounts her own memory:

"At four years old, stealing a blue gumball made me feel ashamed not just of myself, but of my family's image."
— Jessica Morehouse (26:39)

6. Strategies for Overcoming Mental Blocks

Transitioning from identification to action, Jessica outlines strategies to dismantle these psychological barriers:

• Self-Awareness: Understanding personal money narratives.
• Therapy and Counseling: Seeking professional help to unravel deep-seated issues.
• Positive Reinforcement: Moving away from negative self-talk to empowering affirmations.

She advises:

"We need to replace victimization with understanding and seek answers to why we behave the way we do with money."
— Jessica Morehouse (33:09)

7. The Importance of Self-Care in Financial Health

Both hosts and Jessica emphasize the necessity of self-care in achieving financial well-being. Jessica connects physical health with financial success:

"Taking care of yourself enables you to make better financial decisions and fosters a healthier relationship with money."
— Jessica Morehouse (23:44)

8. Gamification for Achieving Financial Goals

The conversation shifts to practical applications, where Jessica discusses gamifying financial goals to enhance motivation and accountability. Joe and Doug contribute by sharing personal anecdotes about setting and achieving small, manageable financial challenges.

"Turning financial habits into games makes the process more engaging and increases the likelihood of success."
— Joe Saul-Sehy (45:15)

9. Conclusion and Key Takeaways

As the episode wraps up, Jessica underscores the essence of her book, Everything But Money, focusing on identifying and overcoming the non-financial barriers to financial freedom. She encourages listeners to:

• Reflect on Emotional Relationships with Money: Understanding feelings and their origins.
• Engage in Community and Support Systems: Building a network that fosters financial growth.
• Adopt Positive Financial Habits: Implementing strategies that align with personal values and emotional well-being.

"Financial freedom isn't just about having more money; it's about freeing yourself from the emotional chains that hold you back."
— Jessica Morehouse (37:28)

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Notable Quotes:

• "If you label something, when you give it words, it makes it more real."
  — Jessica Morehouse (24:38)

• "We need positive motivation. It's not about victimizing yourself; it's about finding solutions."
  — Jessica Morehouse (33:33)

• "Gamifying your financial goals can transform daunting tasks into enjoyable challenges."
  — Joe Saul-Sehy (45:15)

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Final Thoughts:

This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to deepen their understanding of the psychological aspects of financial management. Jessica Morehouse provides a compelling narrative that bridges the gap between emotional well-being and financial success, offering actionable insights and strategies to help listeners achieve their financial goals by addressing the root causes of their money-related behaviors.

For more resources and to join the discussion, visit StackingBenjamins.com and engage with the community through their Facebook group, "The Basement."

Transcript

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

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[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Let's make it go. You guys ready?

[OG]

No.

[Doug]

I'm like a puppy dog. I still have peanut butter in my mouth.

[OG]

How is that like a puppy dog?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It's the way we lure OG to.

[OG]

The microphone, put his medicine in the peanut butter.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Come here. Come over to the microphone.

[Doug]

Put peanut butter on the microphone.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Come on, come on, come on.

[OG]

Come here, boy.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yes. And you can tell when it's crunchy peanut butter because that's when he gets all foul.

[OG]

You know, with. With one of our dogs, with Sasha, she kind of knows there's medicine tucked in there. So now I have to. When she gets close, I, like, have to stick my finger in and put it in the roof of her mouth so she doesn't have a choice because she's like, I'm not falling for that again.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

She's onto it. Someday OG will catch on, right? But you know what? Everybody catches on to the fact that we salute our troops every Monday. That's what we do here on the podcast. So raise your mug.

[OG]

Raising My pineapple drink today or your pineapple drink.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, look at this. He's got the new Navy Federal mug. On behalf of the men and women at Navy Federal Credit Union.

[OG]

Who sent OG a free mug? Wtf? How come I don't have a cork bottomed, insulated mug?

[Doug]

You got this too, right, Joe?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And yes, yes, I did.

[OG]

That was. You woke up and chose violence this morning. That was so unnecessary.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I'm bad for the men and women. If maybe federal credit. You got to say it quick now. And the men and women making podcasts in mom's basement, with or without the mug. Big salute to our troops. Thanks for keeping us safe. Let's go stack some Benjamins now this week, huh?

[Doug]

Oh, sounds like somebody's got a case of the Mondays.

[OG]

Live from Joe's mom's basement, it's the Stacking Benjamin Show. Hey there, stackers. I'm Joe's Bob's neighbor, Doug, and you know those money problems you've been having? What if I told you that it might be about something more than money? And what if I told you that today's mentor knows all about digging deeper into your money mindset? And what if I told you it was none other than the host of the More Money podcast, Jessica Morehouse? And what if I told you that there was even more like my amazing trivia and fantastic headline? Are you kidding me? Wouldn't that be awesome? And what if I told you that it's now time to say hello to those two guys, Joe and OG? You'd be disappointed. Right? I know you would. After that giant buildup, and all you heard me finish with was Joe and OG Again, you'd be like, oh, man. Anyway, here they are.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That's the highlight. That is the highlight, Doug. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the highlight of your week. The moment that I get to say hello to my good buddy Doug and my good friend across the card table, Mr. O.G. how are you, man?

[Doug]

Guess I'm not a buddy, just a friend. But okay.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Is that. Is that like the new just a Friend? I'm just a buddy. I don't know. We got a great show. Oh, gee. Jessica Morehouse is here.

[Doug]

I heard.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I know. What if. What if Doug told us? What if it could be absolutely super with Jessica Morehouse. Because seriously, you know, when you. When you've. You've been meeting with people for a long time, it seems like highlighted my week. The longer we talk about this, the more you realize it's not about the math. It's not about the dollars and cents. There's always something else going on.

[Doug]

Laca Basa. Yes. It's always something going on.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Always something behind the scenes. What? What is that?

[Doug]

Insane in the membrane.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Jessica Morehouse is gonna be here.

[OG]

So really, you guys are like psychologists with people's money, Is that what you're saying?

[Doug]

Psychos. Yes.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Could stop right there. We got a great show. We've got the last week of January here. Can you guys believe this?

[Doug]

Are your goals 1 12th completed? We're 112 through the year.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Have you made it?

[Doug]

Sorry, I find that incredibly offensive when people post that stuff. You know, it's January 31st. Are your goals on track? Like, no, dude, I barely got out of bed so far this month.

[OG]

It's still of the calendar. It's still like 6:30 in the morning.

[Doug]

Exactly.

[OG]

Just, we're just getting.

[Doug]

Give me a second.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, she's like the master of the two minute offense. He's like, in more ways than you.

[Doug]

Know.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Hit me up the middle of June. Yeah, hit me up the middle of June about my goals.

[OG]

OG agrees with that.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I'm good.

[Doug]

You're not on track for your goals by August. Call og. He'll fix you.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

We got a great show. Jessica Morehouse is here. We've got a fantastic headline. Speaking of getting your goals and be 1/12 of the way there, how about some gamification? Let's talk about gamifying the goals. But before all that, we have a couple of sponsors that make sure this is free so you don't have to pay for any of this goodness. So we're going to say hello to them. And then Jessica Morehouse, host of the More Money podcast and a woman who really has spent a lot of time interviewing people who like to think deeper about money and about what might be behind all those money problems that you're having. Jessica's got a great story of her own, by the way, that I know that she's going to share. So let's say hello to Jessica Morehouse. Ah, debt. Well, it can take a toll on you. Between minimum payments and interest rates, it's really stressful and at times feels like you just can't get ahead. Navy Federal Credit Union understands debt is a huge stressor and they're here to help. Navy Federal Credit Union has all the financial tools and resources you need to dominate debt right now when you're putting your strategy together. One strategy I like is to surf your interest rates down to zero and continue to pay as little interest. To quote the man as possible, Navy Federal Credit unions offering a 0% intro APR on credit card balance transfers for 12 months plus you can get $250 when you spend $2,500 in your first 90 days on a cash rewards or cash rewards plus credit card. So lay out your plan, figure out how to use the tools, and don't let debt drag you down. Visit navy federal.org to start dominating debt today. Navy Federal Credit Union. Our members are the mission. Navy Federal's insured by NCUA after the intro rate expires. Variable APRs are 15.15% to 18% based on creditworthiness. Rates are subject to change. ATM fees for cash advances are up to $1 at non Navy Federal ATMs.

[Progressive Insurance]

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[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And I'm super happy she's coming down the stairs to the basement. Jessica Morehouse is here. How are you?

[Jessica Morehouse]

I'm so good. I'm so excited to be here and chatting with you. It's been a while.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It has been a while. And I'm so happy that we finally get to catch up. You're somebody that every time I talk to you, I feel like. Like I know you way better than I do.

[Jessica Morehouse]

Oh, that's nice.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It is nice. But that's all you. That is all. That is all you. I want to start here because I read like you read for your More Money podcast. I read a ton of opens to books. I read, you know, probably 50 personal finance books a year just for interviews and getting ready. Your book had the best note to a loved one at the beginning. Yeah, Because Jessica was so personal, I felt like I was reading a line from a diary or something that was specifically to a person. I'm gonna find it here because for some reason I don't have it open.

[Jessica Morehouse]

You don't have it? I've got a book right here. Let me grab it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. Do you remember, though, why this message at the beginning of the book?

[Jessica Morehouse]

Okay, so I'm gonna read it out and then I'll explain it. So it says, to my loving husband Josh, if it weren't for you, I don't know if I would have ever gone to therapy. I mean that as a compliment. Add that just so you know what I'm talking about. You didn't drive me to therapy. So I realized, oh, I have to do a little dedication and write the acknowledgments. No one, my publisher never asked me for them, so I'm not sure if I was supposed to hand those in while I gave my manuscript, but no one talked about it. I'm like, shouldn't I have those? So I was on vacation with my family in the summer and we were taking the train back from Quebec City to Toronto. And while I was there, I'm like, oh, shoot, I should probably send them something. And so I just was on the train and just thought that was really. I showed it to my husband, like, are you cool with this? Is this funny? He's like, yeah, it's funny. And my parents, like, oh, okay. Like, they didn't quite get the humor. But so far everyone's like, oh, my God, that's so funny. Like, it's true, though. I don't think I would have been as open to therapy if he hadn't gone first. Because you, you have to be very vulnerable and, you know, don't care what people think to make that decision because there's still a lot of stigma around it, unfortunately. And he, for the first time went to see a therapist after his father passed away. And so he, he needed some help when he was dealing with his grief. And it showed me that it's okay to ask for help when you need help and you can't do it all on your own. Like, we go to doctors and dentists and other professionals for help. Why are we not going to a professional when we need mental health help? And I don't know why it's still such a taboo, but it shouldn't be. And so I've gone to different therapists throughout my adulthood. It kind of started when we first moved to Toronto 11 years ago, and I was having a hard time adjusting to this new city and making new friends and stuff like that. But I really did a deep dive into therapy while writing this book. And it did a world of difference, but especially in terms of better understanding my relationship with money, which is wild.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Because we will go get help with our money. And you talk about this. There's your podcast, there's our podcast. There's tons of books already out there about how to do a tax free savings account or a Roth IRA in America, right? Yeah, there's all these publications you're on the news a lot talking about this stuff, and yet the thing that controls it all is our brain. And to your point, there's a huge stigma around that.

[Jessica Morehouse]

Huge. Yeah, it's. We don't realize. It didn't really hit me either how important it is, what's going on. Our mind, but also in our bodies, our emotions, Everything that is not reasonable and logical, which most personal finance books or investing books are about, just do this, this, and this, and then you will see results. And you're like, sure, but most people aren't doing that, even though they know better. Why is that? And that's what I really want to explore is what are those, you know, the hidden barriers between you and financial freedom? There's a lot going on inside.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. But even if we do it, even if we do that stuff, I like your bigger point. We still show up and I'm still depressed and, oh, guess what? Having more money or doing this saving didn't make me the happy person I thought it was going to be. Like, I still am the same either miserable or happy person that I was. I never realized you and I had something else in common, which is I was surprised to hear that you get depressed at New Year's.

[Jessica Morehouse]

Yeah, this is the one exception this year because I had some exciting things going on. I hosted a New Year's Eve party that was actually fun, kept my mind occupied. And then I had a book coming out. Since I can remember, I've always gotten really low on New Year's Day. And I think it started. I don't actually know when it started, but I started really recognizing it as a pattern back in 2022. I had to rewrite a proposal for this book, and I got Covid, and I had to spend Christmas at home with my husband instead of going to visit family. And we had to self isolate because he didn't have Covid yet and had a lot of time to think. And I got really, really low around that time because I always feel like I could have done more, looking back at what I did the previous year. And then there's also this realization that I'm like, oh, I have to start all over again. I have to do all over again.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You said something like, you're a ninja at negative self talk.

[Jessica Morehouse]

Oh, my gosh. I. I'm better at it now. I try to practice, but yeah, the negative self talk, the things that I would say to myself, I would never say to anyone outside of me. Never. Cause there's. There's. Yeah, they're just like you're not good enough. You're not this enough. This is this when you write it down. It was interesting when I was writing some of those thoughts down. I'm like, gosh, that's not healthy, is it? And I know it's not healthy. And why do we do it? And a lot of people do it because it's internal. We just don't really even recognize, I think, that we're doing it and then the big impact it has on your whole entire life.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

The reason why I was surprised by that is a. Because I do that too. And New Year's is not my favorite, favorite holiday. Number one. We're coming off the whole holiday season, which I love.

[Jessica Morehouse]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You and I live in climates years. It's colder than where it is here, but it's cold and it's darker. And I wish people left their lights on, by the way, let's get rid of the whole Christmas light thing and let's just make them winter lights. Go ahead and take your tree down. Take all that stuff.

[Jessica Morehouse]

My lights on all January. And everyone in the neighborhood does. It's weird. I don't know. This neighborhood in particular, they keep their lights on for until like, early February. And I keep my tree up the whole month of January.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Going to be your neighbor. I'm coming because everybody takes theirs down here where I am and in Texas. And I just think, why do we do that? Because it just. January, February, just a slow.

[Jessica Morehouse]

It's so depressing.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yes. So let's get some happy when we have less sun. You know, there's something to all that. But I get down too, that that's all coming to an end. And also facing the new year feels like a whole uphill challenge. And like you, I think about the stuff I didn't do, but I see your social media stuff. I see how your show's rocking. I see some of the cool things you do. The. The thing where you were trying to pay with all the different currencies a few years ago.

[Jessica Morehouse]

Oh, gosh. Yeah. You remember that?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That was so cool. But you're doing all this exhausting. In my eyes, you're a badass. But it goes to show.

[Jessica Morehouse]

That's the highlight reel, right?

[OG]

Yes.

[Jessica Morehouse]

No one knows what's going on inside.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Or Jessica Morehouse I'm seeing on Instagram is not the real. And we got to remind ourselves of that.

[Jessica Morehouse]

Yeah, we do. You generally, especially Instagram, which is such a big platform. It really is the highlight reel for everybody. And I think Facebook, I kind of still is because it's an older platform. Not many people, especially younger people, use it anymore. I don't really use Facebook, but that's kind of where people go to complain. And then Instagram is like your highlight reel, but there's no space for you to just be honest. It's not that I want to complain, but this is what I'm going through and I'm not asking for sympathy. And so you just keep that stuff to yourself and no one knows and then you're ashamed to even admit it to yourself. So you're not going to get any help and so you can't work through it. And so you're just sticking stuck in this situation, not doing anything about it. And that's the space that I was in. I felt really stuck and unhappy and I didn't really like my life. I didn't like how I was talking to myself. I didn't like how I felt. You know, I just was never satisfied no matter what I accomplished. Even though I'd posted and be like, look at this, it would within minutes or maybe if I was lucky a day it would dissipate and then I'd be like, now what? You gotta do something next. What's the next thing you're gonna do? Or well, that's in the past. Like, you know, people are scrolling, they're, they're done with your thing. So you need to think of something new and you're just, you can never just be satisfied by something you did. And so one thing I'm trying really hard to do is savor this moment because this is bucket list thing that I have a book, I worked on it for two years. It's the most vulnerable, honest thing I think I've ever written. And I literally, I, of course I would love for it to be a bestseller and all these kind of things, I honestly don't care. I'm just going to spend this year getting it into people's hands so they can read it and we can kind of connect in that way. But I'm just going to savor the moment because I never used to, never allowed myself to.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I also had to with my book. I had to think about individuals. If there's somebody that this impacts that this helps just knowing. And by the way, your book already helped me because I'm like, I didn't know that Jessica had this type of self talk. So my self talk is I've met my match. But, but it is so helpful to know and to your point, to be honest, what I like that you did at the Beginning you had to go through and you had to look at some of your relationships and go, are these relationships healthy? Talk to me about that. Because you had to back away from some people. And how do you do that?

[Jessica Morehouse]

Yeah, I mean, I've always been good, actually, like picking men. I honestly have only dated two men, one of them being my husband, and he's a great guy. Been together almost 18 years. But picking friends, I was just terrible at picking the right friends. Part of it is my own attachment style. Part of it is just getting stuck in certain cycles based off trauma and things like that. But I just was terrible at picking friends that would lift me up, that would like me. Just for me. I never felt like I was good enough, which played into other things I was already dealing with. And so it really wasn't until I started doing, you know, more therapy and, and, and personal growth that I recognized that, yeah, I need to stop picking the same types of people. I'm very good at that now. Recognizing there's certain energies I'm really attracted to and I always get burned. And I still learn those lessons sometimes because I always want to give people a chance. But there's something that I needed to really. Yeah. Work through. And because of some of those experiences, at a certain point, I just kind of shut my walls and kind of put up the drawbridge and said, fine, no more. I'm just not going to be open to anybody. I don't want to get hurt anymore. So I'm just going to have surface level friendships or just be very careful who. So keep my circle really small or just not let anyone in. And that was kind of my way of guarding and protecting myself. And when you do that, you're missing out on a lot of joy because the ways that actually make you happy, the biggest one, spoiler alert is community and friendship and being around people. And I completely blocked myself off from that. So I look back and like, oh, wow. I really, you know, missed out on maybe creating deeper relationships. That's something that I've been working on the past two years, and I feel really good about it, but I wasted a lot of time not doing that.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It's so interesting. Last year I had a. I have a friend that every time I would ask him for help, it's always negative. And I realize that I never feel more confident when I ask this person for help. I always feel less confident. And then I realized that it truly had more to do with that person than with me. But I live off confidence. Like, for me, if I'm Confident I will go do something. If I'm not confident I'll go study it for 10 days and I'll never do anything. And so shutting that relationship, not all relationships. Because man, when I saw that in your book I was like, oh man.

[Jessica Morehouse]

That was a bit extreme. And recommend don't do that, shut it all down.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

But I got but I do to say going through and selectively going, you know what, I'm going to be friends with this person. I'm just not going to ask them for advice anymore. Because every time I ask them for advice, I never get anything that truly, I mean might be good for some people, but for me, I always feel less than I was speaking. By the way. Taking control. You have this client early on in your work that you call Raya. Can you tell us Raya's story? Because I think this is good for where we're going today.

[Jessica Morehouse]

Yeah. So she was one of my first one on one financial counseling clients. Such an inspiration because she was able to make such progress. But I didn't realize at the time that I saw myself in her. And that's probably why I was so attached to her and probably spent way more time than I should have for free working with her. But I recognized that she had the same patterns of negative self talk and didn't think she was good enough. And she used money in a way partly to self spending but also to do things so she could get things that she was lacking. Such as she wanted the attention and love and care. She just wanted to be seen and heard by her family and friends. That's why she got into debt and that's why she had a spending problem. That's why she also maybe didn't take as many risks as she could have with her career to make more money. Cause she didn't think she was good enough. It was interesting when we were initially working together, she just wanted to pay off her debt and curb her spending. But what we recognized was there was something deeper going on. And that was really the kind of catalyst for me doing this book is this was one person and then I got to interview a ton more people and I since then worked with a ton more clients. All of them have a story, they all have a particular money narrative. They all do things with money that may not. They're not being served by this and they need to change, but they don't know how to change. Because again a lot of the information when you're looking for solutions are practical how to money things. But it's like, well this Is actually not a money issue. There's something else going on under the surface that if we can fix that, then it'll be a lot easier to stick with your budget, to not want to spend money in that way, to take risks that are calculated so you can improve your financial life.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. Raya's working on everybody but Raya.

[Jessica Morehouse]

Yeah, she was definitely that people pleaser. And I think maybe we've been like that or we know someone like that that put everyone but themselves first. I really like the analogy of like the, you know, you're on the airplane, you have to put your mask on first before helping someone else. I don't think a lot of us, especially women, we were always told to help first and then us because we saw that. Like I saw that with my grandmas, they would always be the last to eat dinner. Always cleaning up after everyone. And never took care of themselves because they're taking care of everyone else. We need to take care of ourselves so we can better help others.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Somebody pointed this out the other day. You and your husband go over to somebody's house, let's say, for dinner. Women generally offer to help out.

[Jessica Morehouse]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

With whatever's going on. The dudes go out in the other room. It's the way we've always. Dudes go watch tv.

[Jessica Morehouse]

We're just replicating what we saw with our parents and her grandparents.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. But it is wild how we don't think through all that stuff. And it's funny how how much this is a one, two punch. We just talked to Anthony O'Neill a couple weeks ago about getting your seat at the table and taking care of you. If you start off with your email first, at the beginning of the day, you're taking care of everybody but you. You got to take care of what is going to move you forward first. And such an important thing.

[Jessica Morehouse]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You list as one of the first things we need to do as we're unpacking, really our money story, is to get it down in writing. Why is it so important that we put a name on this battle that we're having?

[Jessica Morehouse]

So there's a couple things that I talk about first is labeling how you feel with money. Because most of us have never been asked, how does money make you feel? So that's important. But it's also important to put that into words. Because when you label something, when you give it words, it gives it power. It gives it some weight to it that I think normally we'd probably brush on the rug. And so we really need to.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

There's even a science to it in your brain, you point out. I didn't know that.

[Jessica Morehouse]

Yeah, there's. Yeah, I have some case studies and research that shows that there's. There's science behind it, how it really impacts you, putting a label on your emotion. It just makes it more real, I think. And so we go through all the different. Not all of the different emotions, but some of the most common ones, such as shame and guilt, anxiety, envy, despair, things like that. I got lots of those words from doing a survey with my audience to find out how does money make you feel? And those words kept on coming up. And so it's important to see where you fit in. I give a lot of real life examples of this, is how shame can show up in your life in this way. And it's not just about, you know, being. Growing up with no money and having shame about that. If you grew up with money, there may be shame associated with that. So no matter how you grew up or. Or how much money you have now, you may still have envy or guilt or all those kinds of things. So it's important to give that a name. And then the other part of it is, once we figure that out, we need to do some digging to find out, okay, where do our beliefs, our values, our feelings, all of those things stem from? What's our kind of money origin story? And so I go through an exercise that's all about helping you elicit your first money memory. And I think that's really interesting because that might be the first time that emotion, that feeling will have showed up in your life and how that connected with money and then still is connected with money in adulthood. And I give an example of myself being a kid, stealing a gumball, being called out for that from my mom. Fair enough. And feeling ashamed about it. And shame has always been a very big part of my money story. And so I'm like, oh, there's the connection. And so getting you to do the same may give you some aha moments.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

What's wild about your story? So you're in the bulk food section because you're looking at, like, this Willy Wonka world of just stuff. And your mom, I guess she turned her back and so you grab like, a blue gumball. You would have gotten away with it if it wasn't blue, I think, because your mouth is full of this blue all of a sudden. Little. How old? He said you thought you were maybe 4 years old.

[Jessica Morehouse]

I was like 4. I was like, really young. Really, really young to not quite know that stealing Was bad. I knew it was sort of bad, but I was testing. I'm like, I don't know. Is it really that bad? Yeah, that's how young it was. Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And you said you're like. I had seen adults go by God, my father in law would do this all the time. He test out the grapes, right?

[Jessica Morehouse]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Just goes and has a grape or two. You see people end up, you know, just pop a thing or two in their mouth. So you do it. What was wild to me though was how you identified that it wasn't shame on one level. Like there's you being ashamed and learning from your mom that you need to be ashamed, but really the shame that your mom kind of taught you, you're bringing to the whole family if you effed it up.

[Jessica Morehouse]

Yeah. I did the exercise myself so I can elicit that memory. And the feelings that came up was shame on for stealing. That's shameful. But also the feeling of we don't want to look like we can't afford that. And the only way we can get it is to resort to stealing. We can afford it. We don't have a lot of money, but we only buy things that we can afford. And so looking like we're stealing and we're doing something that's outside of our narrative, it's a bad look. We don't want to do that. And so I was ashamed. I was ashamed of making my family feel bad or look bad in front of all of our peers in the 90s. And so there's a lot of different levels that you may kind of discover. You may have one feeling that may come up in a bunch of different ways.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I had a couple of early memories that really affected me when I started making money. And it was in my family, a lot of people hadn't made a lot of money. And it was kind of shame that you were making money that, oh, who do you think you are, Mr. Uppity?

[Jessica Morehouse]

Yeah, you think you're better than me? Or, you know, like, you think you're hot now? Yeah, 100%. That's the common one I hear often. Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

What do you do with this? Once you unpack it, once you put a name to it and you kind of identify with it, what do we do next?

[Jessica Morehouse]

You want to find out what are the things, especially when you've written it down and written down, where did this come from? What were the things I learned directly or indirectly from my caregivers? And then you want to be able to take a step back and see what are the things that are holding me back and not serving me, and what are the things that are helpful, and I will continue with that. I learned a lot of amazing things, especially for my mom, who was like the family money manager, about spending within your means, don't get into debt. All these things that have very much helped me with my money growing up. But there's a lot of other things that I adopted from her, but also from my grandparents and just greater family that, yeah, they don't serve me anymore, such as aversion to risk taking and, you know, only investing in really conservative investments because they have certain traumas from their past that. That made sense to only keep it in cash or very conservative investments that if I were to follow suit, I'd be in a worse financial position. So I'm like, I need to leave that and realize that risk does not mean you're putting all your chips at the casino. It's. It's being calculated and having a strategy and knowing what you're doing. So I need to take risks with my investments, but also my career. Like, I. I got a lot of flack, or not flack, I would say, but a lot of questions about, are you sure this is the right choice when I decide to leave my job. I used to work in marketing for a big corporation and decided to go off on my own eight years ago now. So it seems like forever ago. But when I decided to quit, everyone's like, are you sure? Like, that seems really scary and dangerous. What if you can't make any money? And all these. There's all these dangers. But for me, it was, again, a calculated risk. And I knew there was a plan B and C if this didn't work out. But if I hadn't made that choice, I'm in a much better financial position, make way more money than I ever did working for someone else. So I had to learn along the way and learned a lot more while going through this book. But along the way of what things are serving me and which ones do I have to leave and just rebel against.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I love that. Then when things occur, you know the signs.

[Jessica Morehouse]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And it makes it easier. It's like these signposts along the way. You're like, yeah, that's. Don't need to go down that road again. And then your natural reaction, too, to things that you got from your parents about, oh, no, we can't afford it.

[Jessica Morehouse]

Oh, yeah, I still. There's still that thing. Honestly, I was. I've been buying some more clothes over the past couple weeks, and Every time I, like, go to buy something that I know I can afford, there is that little voice inside me being like, are you sure it's not on sale? You sure you want to do that? Sure you don't want to wait until. But I'm like, if I wait, then I won't have it and I need it and I can afford it. So why do I feel guilty for buying something that is absolutely fine? It's just this. It's still in there, but now I'm more aware of it. And then I do it anyway, like, I'm buying it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Actually, it's funny, I had to learn this from our friend Paula Pant, where she's like, my goal in life was to get to the point that I don't care about the sale, to have enough money that if I need it, I get it. And then that gives her confidence.

[Jessica Morehouse]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You know, that she's like, yeah, I'm not going to wait for the sale. I'm going to buy it because I want it now and I can afford it.

[Jessica Morehouse]

Like, that's a. I haven't reached that level. That's a mind shift. I'm like, I'm still. I don't know. I think part of it is because I learned that you were kind of a sucker for buying it not on sale because, you know, it's already marked up. So it's like, who cares if you can afford it?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I know.

[Jessica Morehouse]

Buy it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I know that's somebody else's game. And hey, if I help them, that's fine. That's great. You know, I gave them a little more profit and I could afford to do that. That. So that's also makes me feel good. If I look at it differently, I want to kind of end here because a lot of people don't know exactly what we're talking about. We talk about putting this down, and this is a great way to start your year. So on 2025, you can identify these things when you see them come up. But let's start. So I feel like these are Dante's seven deadly sins. It's like the seven layers of hell, all of these. But it's interesting how, as I was walking through these, it isn't about what happened to you. It's about how you respond to it, is what your needs are. Yeah.

[Jessica Morehouse]

Yeah. So one thing that I talk about, and I often see the tone or the messaging from some. I call them like curmudgeons, basically, with a microphone. These kind of experts out there that have been around for a while and they use things like shame and judgment as a means to motivate you to change your habits. I don't find that negative motivation is only helpful for such a short amount of time. We need positive motivation. It's not about victimizing yourself or using your situation, what happened to you as an excuse. It's an explanation. We just need answers. That's what people want is we want answers on why am I still doing this when I know better, I know better and I just can't help myself. There's something else going on that we need to figure out. This is what's pushing you into this way or this is what keeps triggering you and you don't have tools to do the opposite or to, to go against what you think is your instinct, but it's not really your instinct.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I love your rant. You've got a huge rant for people that haven't read the book yet. You've got a huge rant about empathy, about. You know what, I'm sick of people just bitching each other online when you don't know the whole situation. Like, we just need to have a little bit of empathy. I swear to God, I say that every day when I jump on, well, Facebook especially.

[Jessica Morehouse]

Oh yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

But when I jump online, I'm like, can you read the comments of any of these things? And you're like, oh, in some saying.

[Jessica Morehouse]

What people will say anonymously online. But you're like, you are talking to a real person. I mean probably.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It just drives me crazy.

[Jessica Morehouse]

Yeah, especially like I don't go on Reddit for a reason. People are like, people are nasty. People can be helpful, but also woo. Little too honest.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I, I learned that a long time ago. I lurk. I will read, but I read.

[Jessica Morehouse]

I do not post anything. I don't want them to know I'm there.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, yeah, Redditors, I'm there, but I'm not there. The shame. Let's talk about shame. Because there's the shame of growing up with less. I think we've all seen that around, if it's not us. But there's also the shame of growing up richer than everyone else. The fact that you're the person that has more or the shame of being. I actually had this one. The shame of being the poorest rich kid. Yeah, you, you're, you're parsing these things. But this was truly me. I went to this Catholic college prep high school that was really highly regarded in the area. I was a kid from a middle class family. I would go to events at people's houses, Jessica. Their houses had names.

[Jessica Morehouse]

Oh, they're. That's when you know you're rich.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah.

[Jessica Morehouse]

They have a name.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. My house didn't have a name. My street had a name, but our house didn't have a name. The shame of not having earned your own wealth. Yeah, the shame that I'm falling behind. This is the New Year's Day thing that you and I do. And then you go into guilt, the rational guilt. Spending more than you're earning, consistently over budget. Spending money to sell soup because you're exhausted, hungry, stressed, sad, jealous or angry. Not saving for retirement. But then there's these irrational guilts. Why do we have the irrational guilt? Because you see these all the time, too.

[Jessica Morehouse]

Yeah. So, like, the rational guilt, like, that's actually a helpful. These feelings are not bad. They're actually helpful. That's why they exist. They're telling you something. And so guilt can help you change your behavior for a good reason. But there's also a rational guilt where you feel guilty for no reason. I mean, I talked about how I grew up Catholic, and that was one of the things that we learned early on. We feel guilty about everything all the time for no reason.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Maybe that's why we're ninjas at this.

[Jessica Morehouse]

Maybe that's why there's some of that connection, like, oh, I just feel bad about everything all the time. Does not everyone else feel like that? No. My husband's like, no, that's not normal. Like, buying something that is not on sale. That's irrational. That doesn't change anything. It's not hurting anyone. It doesn't make any sense that it's irrational. So we need to recognize what are some of the things that we feel guilty about that are completely irrational. So we can also, like, write those down to be like, yeah, that's ridiculous. I wouldn't make someone feel bad for doing that. So why would I make myself feel bad for that? And we need to leave that there and stop doing that. And it's a practice you have to remind yourself, no, this is okay. This is fine. We know it's fine. This is an irrational thought. We need to just get it out of here.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, yeah. Some of the irrational ones that I've seen in my life that you kind of point out, we don't celebrate things because we're afraid of how it will impact other people. So I don't want to celebrate wins or, you know, the one year more syndrome. You see people in the working world, older people that are getting ready to retire. I'm going to work one more year because I irrationally just God knows they're not making more time.

[Jessica Morehouse]

Yeah, I know.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I just, I only have so much more time and I'm going to stay on it. Some of the others you have fear again, rational and irrational fear, anxiety, envy, despair. And this is, as you pointed out, just the beginning. But I love the idea here. Early in the year, stackers get it out, get it out in the open, identify what it is so as you're chasing those goals this year and along the way that you know what the, what those things are that are going to cross you up. The book is called Everything But Money because it truly is about everything but money. The hidden barriers between you and financial freedom. It's available everywhere, I think it is.

[Jessica Morehouse]

In the US Canada, worldwide. You can find easy [e-mail] book but in the US it's available, you know, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Target, wherever and Canada Indigos are big bookstore here. So check it out.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I will by the way, link to the website because I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you what the heck's coming up next on the More Money show.

[Jessica Morehouse]

Listen, okay, I don't know. I love like what's next? You're like, I literally just put out about. Give me a minute to breathe. No, I'm continuing. I'm doing season 20. I did not do a pause at all from last season to this season. And so what we've got looking forward this year is the first couple weeks I'm releasing excerpts from the book. So reading it out so you get a little taste of the audiobook.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Sweet.

[Jessica Morehouse]

And then doing a bit of a re listen some my top and favorite episodes from the past 10 years because June, it'll be 10 years since I started my show. And then I'm going to sprinkle in a few new interviews with guests as well. So that's what's happening now. Season 20, 10 years.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Doesn't it feel wild that we've been doing it this long, Jessica?

[Jessica Morehouse]

Yeah, I used 28 when I started, I guess. Or 29. Yeah. And I'm, I don't, I don't want to think about it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And you're still 29.

[Jessica Morehouse]

Wait, wait, wait. How old am I?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

How are you still 29 today?

[Jessica Morehouse]

How am I still 29?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I don't get that happen. Jessica, great seeing you. Thanks for being our mentor today.

[Jessica Morehouse]

Thanks so much for having me.

[OG]

Hey there, Stackers. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And today's a great day in history because way back in 1949, Kansas born actress and banker Georgia niece Clark Gray became the first woman to well, you know what? Let's make that the question. Besides becoming the first woman to have four names on her checking account, she became the first woman to do what? Banking feat that had never previously been achieved by a woman. I'll be right back after I raid Joe's mom's purse for all the dollar bills to see whose names on them.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Foreign.

[OG]

How high is the interest rate for the new Laurel Road High Yield Savings account?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

This high. The air is really, really thin up here.

[OG]

The Laurel Road Very High Yield Savings.

[Doug]

Account Variable Annual Percentage Yield APY is subject to change at any time. No minimum balance required. Fees may reduce earnings on the account. For full terms and conditions, see LaurelRoad.com Savings Laurel Road is a brand of.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

KeyBank member FDIC Small business owners State farms there with small business insurance to fit your specific needs. Whether you're starting a new venture or growing an existing one, State Farm helps you choose the right coverage to protect what matters most. Working with a local State Farm agent helps you understand your coverage options, offering local support to help you achieve your goals. Focused on turning your passion into a thriving business. Knowing your insurance can change as your business grows. Stay Farm here to help you succeed with your business. Like a good neighbor, Stay Farm is there. Many of you may remember that metpro founder Angelo Poli is on our show a ton and the reason we have Angelo back is because he is such an expert on the science of diet and exercise. You may know or you may not know that a few years ago when I asked about metpro, they agreed to furnish me with a coach for a while named Jesse. And to this day I still work with Jesse because diet and exercise are such an important part of my regime. And they should be frankly of years too. In 2025 you want to achieve big things. You need some big health to go with that fat wallet that we're trying to help you create. The team at metpro has just helped me. They've helped thousands of individuals help perform their bodies by hacking their metabolism. If you're looking for a high touch experience working with a metabolic expert or you want access to the tools their industry leading coaches use, visit MetPro Co SB. You'll get a complimentary assessment like I had and then speak to their team to learn which option is is best for you. Here's what I like whenever I'm eating stuff that shouldn't go in my mouth. Whenever I'm avoiding working out, which is something that I aspire to always do, I think of Jesse and I think about, I don't want to let myself down and Jesse's going to hold me accountable. We all need accountability coaches in our corner. But even better, Jesse's not just holding me accountable, she's holding me accountable to a more scientific approach. And if you haven't heard Angela Poli on our show, not only should you sign up for the assessment with MetPro, but you should also go back and listen because you'll hear the science. One of my favorite Angelo poly lines. Everything works until it doesn't. All those fad diets work until they don't. And when they don't, the boomerang effect is pretty horrible. So to take advantage of this opportunity to get a complimentary assessment from MetPro, go to MetPro co. It's not dot com, it's dot co, MetPro co SB. And you're going to get a complimentary metabolic profiling assessment. A one on one consultation with a MetPro coach like my coach Jesse to help you achieve your goals this year. Course results may vary. MetPro is not a medical organization. The service is not intended to treat any illness, disease, or adverse medical condition.

[Doug]

Foreign.

[OG]

Hey there, stackers. I'm purse inspector and guy who just got his hand slapped, Joe's mom's neighbor Doug. What a misunderstanding. All I wanted to do was see whose name appeared on all the bills in Joe's mom's person. Well, I thought that might be easier to do if they went in my pocket and I took them out to the El Camino where the light was better. It was a big misunderstanding. I had no idea that the same name might be on hundred dollar bills as maybe a 20, which is why I took samples of each. But one name that didn't appear on them was Georgia niece Clark Gray. But they used to be. Gray had been an actress on stage working with the great Charlie Chaplin and others before the talkie movies cut short her career. Luckily, she could fall back on her bank account. Experience enough that Georgia became the first woman in history to be the treasurer of the United States. And there you have it. I know, right? Let's get back to Joe and OG.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And now you know the rest of the story.

[OG]

Yeah, that's a. That's interesting. I mean, how come we don't know her name more? Her name's plural.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Because you got to take a break. Halfway through saying her name, said the guy with three names, I'm like, oh my Goodness. Four. Four. I can't.

[OG]

There's no hyphens in there. It's very like. Which one do I emphasize? Georgia niece Clark Gray.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You can tell you're really bored by the way when you're looking at the names on the, on your dollar bill.

[OG]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, look, somebody signed this.

[OG]

That's when you forgot to take your phone to the bathroom. You're reading names on the bills. Man, you are out of material.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

There's an eye on the top of this pyramid. What is this all about? It's the Illuminati. Big thanks to Jessica and obviously so much, so, so, so much going on with our money. And that's why we paired it nicely today, like a fine Chardonnay. This headline.

[Jessica Morehouse]

Hello, darlings. And now it's time for your favorite part of the show. Our stacking Benjamin's headlines.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Our headline today comes to us from USA Today. What's a no buy list?

[Doug]

Yeah, I don't have one of those.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Greta Cross writes, do you have a no buy list for 20, 25? One creator said it helped her pay off $34,000 in debt. You know, it's interesting, you know, this morning at the gym, I will often gamify my workout just to make sure that I can, I can get through it right? And so often when we turn these things into a game, we're much more likely to get some of these goals that we didn't think that we could get.

[Doug]

Doug, can you picture Joe at the bench press going, looks sexier than OG Looks sexier than OG Looks sexier than OG and it's like this trainer's like, it's not possible, dude, but keep pumping. Good job. Good job. Two more reps.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I don't, don't know that I've ever said that, but because you've never been.

[OG]

On a bench press.

[Doug]

Yeah, you could imagine what it'd be like.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Anyway, this piece writes, if you write out New Year's resolutions on the blaster.

[Doug]

3000, then you're totally like, look sexier than OG saving money.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Leotard may be at the top of your list. New social media trend encouraging goal setters to be more rigorous when it comes to putting away their wallets. I don't really care about the social media trend. I do like OG the idea, though, of gamifying some of your money habits.

[Doug]

I was thinking just as you read this headline, the thing that popped in my mind was there's a real famous book a couple of years ago written by Personality. His name is Peter Attia. He's a physician, he's got a podcast and kind of a wellness health longevity type guy. And his book is called Outlive and it's actually pretty good. One of the things he talks about in there in terms of eating healthy is there's really only three things that you can do. You can have calorie restriction, you can have time restriction, or you can have thing restriction, which is ipso facto calorie restriction. And he's like, and most of the time you should have like two of those, right? So you should say like, for example, I'm only going to eat 1500 calories and I'm only going to eat between the hours of 11 and 7pm or whatever. Right? Or I'm not going to eat any processed carbohydrates. That's thing restriction. And I'm only going to consume my meal in the afternoon or whatever. And by doing those things, you're focusing on the thing that really matters, which is calories in, calories out in some level and giving your body time to process it and energize and all that sort of stuff. I was thinking about the concept of a no buy list in the sense of that's like a thing restriction. That's like somebody saying, I don't want to eat white bread this year or this month or I'm not going to eat pasta. You know, you're not saying I'm not going to eat pasta for the rest of my life. You're just saying for this period of time I want to focus on, you know, I know that's an empty calorie. I know that's really not going to help me reach my health goals. So for this period of time, I'm not going to really track anything else. I'm just not going to eat pasta. And if I don't eat pasta, I'm likely to have that calorie restriction that leads me to, you know, whatever. And honestly, we've thought about this. I've thought about this with my obsessive compulsive wine buying habit and I start the year anew and I think, okay, this is the year. I'm not going to buy any wine this year and I might not. I mean, I'm, hey, you know, I'm a month in and I haven't bought any yet. So I'm 1/12 of the way there.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Are you 1/12 of the way through your non wine buying?

[Doug]

Yeah, but it's like Marriott points or Amex points, right? Like, what's the point of having a million of Those things, like, they become worth less as time goes on, right? Because Marriott says, hey, you want to stay in that hotel, it's 20,000 points a night. And then next year they go, it's 25,000 points.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

24. Yeah, yeah.

[Doug]

You know, it's like they don't give you interest on your points. So unless you have a specific thing use for it, there's no significant reason to just sit it and accumulate it. And I was talking to a friend of mine who's got a basement full of wine, and he's like, I could honestly drink a bottle of wine a day for the rest of my life and still have wine left over. Yet I keep buying it. And you go, to what end? That kind of hit me, you know, like, sweet buzz.

[OG]

That's what the end is.

[Doug]

Well, sure, but wouldn't you be good enough to stop buying it at that point? It's almost like being, you know, coast fi with wine.

[OG]

There's the next conference.

[Doug]

Like, you're good, right? You know, until you consume all this stuff. I mean, if, if it takes. We have piles of it. I'm using this from my own perspective here. You know, we have, we have, you know, a bunch of it. And it's like we just drank at a normal pace. It's like it's going to take us years to get through it anyway. And the stuff that I'm hanging on to will be great in five years, you know? Like, why anyway?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, sometimes with these collections too, the buying becomes the compulsion.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You know, just the. Oh, there's a new year of X out. I. I really need one of those. I gotta try. Yeah, I gotta try out the new vintage. I gotta try out the new thing. It's the same thing with my board game Crack Addiction. It's like, oh, I heard about this new game. Oh, oh, I gotta, I gotta get.

[Doug]

That made a new game. And I like their old game, so I'll probably like their new game. Yeah. Get it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. And then I look at my closet and I'm like, why would I Again? I could play a board play game a day with yours. We could combine these two. We could have all of your wine for the rest of forever. All my board games for the rest of forever.

[OG]

This smacks to me of your love of focus on the process and not the results. I'm less like that. I'm. I'm more focused on the results, and I'm a little less concerned about the specific process steps. I see the merit of both. But it seems to me that if You. You made me think of this OG when you. You talked about, I'm not going to eat processed carbohydrates today. I just need to get through one day, and if I can do that, you know, and then I can do it again the next day. It's more. If you focus on the process, you'll eventually get that result that you're looking for. And it's. It's a lot easier to think about that than this big, huge, unattainable thing of I need to, you know, save $3 million. So I get.

[Doug]

The thing is, is you can't see, we've talked about this before, but I had another aha moment on this a week ago. You know, you can't see compounding in advance. You can't believe that it's going to happen, because our brains just don't work that way yet. You see it in the rearview mirror all the time, but even though you see it in the rearview mirror, you won't believe that it'll happen again. Right? Using your $3 million example, Doug, you watched your money go from a million and a half to three. You went, okay, yeah, it doubled. And I get the concept of it doubling. I just don't believe it's going to happen again in my lifetime. I get that it happened. I just don't think it's going to happen again. And most of that is because our brains just can't process that. And I was sitting in the pool a couple of weeks ago. Wife and I went on a little trip. I was reflecting on the fact that around Thanksgiving, I thought, hey, we've got this beach trip coming up. I probably ought to tighten a little for the pool just to have some self confidence. And then you look into the future.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

So you can look as good as me while you're on the bench press going, I wish I looked as good as Joe.

[Doug]

They're on the bench press going, look as sexy as Joe. But it was around Thanksgiving, and I remember thinking, like, oh, that's like ten weeks from now. Like, you know how much commitment it takes to be healthy for 10 weeks? My God, during the holidays? Are you crazy? Right? And then you get there and you look back and you go, that was just 10 weeks ago. That wasn't that long ago. Like, Thanksgiving was just, you know, a few weeks. It wasn't even that long ago. Like, I can remember what was for dinner. But into the future. When you look into the future right now and you say it's the first of February weeks. Yeah, it's the first of February, it's going to be. It's going to be bathing suit season in the Northern Hemisphere. Pretty soon. I better tighten. You know, you go, ah, that's 10 weeks away. That's 15 weeks. That's a long time. But when you get there in the summer from now, you're going to look back and go, like, oh, I could have.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Ten weeks back was mid November, which feels like yesterday. Ten weeks forward is mid April, which feels like forever to go. And it's the same amount of time.

[Doug]

Yeah. And when you get to it, you're gonna go, oh, I could have done that.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. And this idea of gamifying it and taking it one day at a time, I mean, I like your Peter Attia analogy where, you know what? I'm not going to focus on everything. I'm just going to say pasta, because that's going to cover 70% of it. Like, it really makes it fun. This woman, Alicia Berman, she's 35 years old, tried this no buy challenge in 2024. It helped her pay off $34,000 in credit card debt. Just turning it into a game. I'm just gonna stop doing this one thing. And you know what's funny is when you start the last game. Yeah. When you start these games, they feel hard, right. Because it's all you think about. Like, don't think about elephants. Well, I wasn't thinking about elephants till you said, don't think about elephants. And now I'm thinking about is, I'm not going to buy this. I'm not gonna buy this. But when you successfully do it for a few days in a row now, it becomes your brain gets on board. When I've done this in the past, and you go, oh, let's see if I can keep this up. It's like my running challenge that I did for several years in a row. I'm going to run a mile a day for what, almost four years. And every day it became, oh, let's see if I can just do one more day. If I can keep this thing going. I think it was like that, building milestones when it comes to reaching my goals, like these big goals, everybody looks at these big goals. I need $2 million. I need X amount of money. I saw a woman yesterday, by the way, who said she retired at 56 years old with $500,000. She's got a huge YouTube channel talking about how she did that. I'm like, well, this is great now. I can't wait to see what it's like. This is how I ran out of money.

[Doug]

Well, it's all about spending, right? I mean if she's got half a million dollars and a $3,000 a month pension and, or a social media platform that produces a few thousand bucks a year a month of income, she's got.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

To, if you form a YouTube channel, tell everybody how you did it, you are able to breach the gap. But instead of looking at $2 million or a million dollars, looking at where do I need to be by June of this year, right? And then the delta is so much smaller and you're like, oh, I can reach that again. This compounding number that you talk about og, it looks impossible. And yet if I just look at what I need to do to get that compounding number by June of this year, I can easily, easily do that. Gamification for the win. Let's link to this on our show Notes page@stacking benjamin.com also, you know what, Stackers, I'd love to hear from you. In our Facebook group the Basement. Let's challenge each other. What are you going to do? What type of no spend challenge would you like to do? Or maybe it's not a no spend challenge. Maybe it's some other type of challenge. Let's talk about it in our Facebook group the Basement.

[OG]

The other thing I'd love to hear about is not just what you're challenging yourself with to not spend on or whatever that specific thing is, but how you're doing it. What unique ways are you finding to prevent yourself from whatever it is? Because that's the, that's the tough part. It's not we all have the thing we need to stop buying wine. But, but it's how do you restrict yourself? And, and I think that's what I'd personally be more interested in learning about.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. Stacky benjamin.com basement is the link to our Facebook group or just go to Facebook in the search engine put in Stacking Benjamin's Basement. We'd love to. Let's challenge each other. Let's hold each other accountable. That'll be fun. Also, we're going to dive more into this and more topics in the 201 our newsletter to get the newsletter. It's free, comes out once a week. Stacky benjamin.com 201 for that Doug, time for us to wander out to the back porch. Man. I've got one thing myself for the back porch. We figured out where the Seattle meetup is. I don't know if you guys figured out where the meetup's going to be. Around Heavenly.

[Doug]

But we have a date and a time and working on the location. If we can just pull it off at the kind of hotel ish area that Doug and I are staying at.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Excellent. For the Seattle meetup we'll actually be in Bellevue which is where the Retire meet conference is going to be held. It's at Tapster Bellevue. That's Thursday, February 6th, 6:30pm Come join me and other like minded individuals. We always have so much fun in the Seattle area. To make sure that we. We tell Tapster that you're going to be there and we have a big enough area. Head to Stacking Benjamins.com meetup and then click the button to reserve your spot. Of course we're going to have a great time. Should be a lot of fun seeing people on Thursday February 6th in Bellevue and OG for our heavenly meetup.

[Jessica Morehouse]

Yep.

[Doug]

So Doug and I will be in Heavenly. We have a big corporate retreat that we're doing. Have to say that so that the trip is deductible.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Big Stacky Benjamin's corporate retreat.

[OG]

Yes, finally getting my bonus.

[Doug]

Yes, finally, finally corporate retreat. We are going to be get a mug. I did get a mug. We're going to be in Heavenly for the week after President's Day. So President's Day is February 17th. Doug and I will be out there on the 18th and we're going to meet up with anybody who wants to meet up on the 19th. So that's a Wednesday. We're thinking six to eight local time and we just have to find location. So I'm not sure if the place that we have has a, has a apres ski vibe. I don't think it does. I think it's more of a.

[OG]

You know, I don't think it does either. But you know what's. And we've got a couple of stackers I noticed in the in the basement who have already said oh, I used to ski at Heavenly all the time. So if you've got some thoughts, chime in. But right now I see right up the street OG is MCP's Taphouse. That's an Irish pub that's got strong possibilities. So you know that's a, that's a leading candidate in the clubhouse right now.

[Doug]

We'll find, we'll find a place and put it online. I think Tina can probably do that for us. Right?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

She can. That'll also be@stacking benjamin.com meetup. You'll see that also links to our monthly meetup of our Stacking Benjamins group in the twin cities. So if you're in Minneapolis, St. Paul, every month a bunch of stackers gets together there. They have a great time. They did ugly sweater and ax throwing as a Christmas party at the Ugly Sweaters.

[OG]

Yeah, I don't understand how you combine the axe throwing and the ugly sweaters.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, luckily I, I heard the second hand. I couldn't make it, but I heard that they didn't throw the axes at each other, which was great.

[OG]

Step up.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Always a nice, nice, nice.

[OG]

Unlike us.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

All right, I think that does it for the back porch. Doug, you got it from here, man. What should we have learned on today's podcast?

[OG]

Well, Joe, here's what's stacked up on our to do list for today. First, take some advice from Jessica Morehouse. Worried about your spending, saving or financial controls? Look beyond the dollars and cents for the real truth about how your habits have materialized. Second, a no buy challenge. What will you forego in 2025? But the big lesson, don't ask Joe's mom about a no buy challenge idea. She says she's going to avoid buying anything to do with those chocolate chip cookies. I love the ones with the M M's in them. You know, this doesn't have to be punitive, Ma. How come I'm paying for your no buy challenge? Thanks to Jessica Morehouse for joining us today. You'll find Jessica's book Everything But Money, wherever books are sold. We'll also include links in our show notes@stacking benjamin's.com just had to say that different. I get so bored saying@stacking benjamins.com so I'm just going to switch it up a little bit. This show is the property of SB Podcasts, LLC, Copyright 2025, and is created by Joe Saul Sehive. Joe gets help from a few of our neighborhood friends. You'll find out about our awesome [e-mail] along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, yeah.

[OG]

And before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don't take advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and we'll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin show. I'm not. I'm not doing an intro. I'm totally protesting this. I got no mug.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, this is a pleasant surprise, Doug. You and I Watched a show that is all the rage. Og have you watched American Primeval yet?

[Doug]

I never heard of it.

[OG]

It's your show. This is a show for you.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Let's give you a little pre.

[OG]

Okay, that's the preview.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

This one I get for not watching it ahead of time.

[Doug]

I do like the rendition of Glory, Glory Hallelujah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, they do that a lot. The whole last episode. I don't know if you noticed this, Doug, but in the background, the music was America the Beautiful. Yeah, they kept playing it in the background over and over and over as stuff was happening. So this is a series on Netflix, bringing together three groups of people. The first group is the American military. The second group is the Mormons, led by the new governor of the Utah Territory, Brigham Young. And then the third group is the Native Americans, mostly the Shoshone. But there's other groups, of course. There is a fourth fringe group, which is just regular people settling. And that's who the story kind of uses to focus on when you look at this clash of the Mormons trying to protect their territory, protect their lifestyle, protect themselves. The Shoshone trying to protect themselves, protect their lifestyle, protect everything that they've got going on. And the military trying to ensure law and order in this lawless place.

[OG]

That fourth group you mentioned, Joe, they last about 12 minutes into the first episode.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

They are cannon fodder. Yes, the entire episode. By the way, the events of this episode and a lot of the people in this episode are true life characters, very fictionalized. The whole thing is. Is 100 fiction. But it's interesting when you dig into the history of this. The massacre that occurred really happened. It didn't happen at all, at all like what they depicted in this film. And I call it a film because Even though it's 6:35 to 55 minute episodes, it truly is like a five hour movie is what you're really watching.

[OG]

I agree.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And it starts off with this woman and her son who are coming, ostensibly to meet the boy's dad in this town. Winter is coming. Sounds like Game of Thrones. Winter is coming. But winter is coming. And everybody's like, you shouldn't go because winter's coming and they're trying to make it and everybody's telling her not to go. And then you find out more about the woman, you find out more about what's really going on. And then you find out more about all the characters, some of which begin as unsympathetic and then become sympathetic. Others begin as sympathetic, then are unsympathetic. The way you feel about people throughout these six episodes changes a ton. I don't know, Doug, what else should we. Should we say about it before we get into whether we liked it or not?

[OG]

Like describing it, I would say it is dark, visually.

[Doug]

Is this a contemporary piece, like a futuristic, like what if? Or is this a historical.

[OG]

This is a western set. Yeah, this is a western set. As we're breaking into the West.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

So it's roughly the 1850s, 1860s that we're looking at that period.

[OG]

It's dark and intense.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And by the way, by dark. By dark, Doug doesn't say that dark enough. Like, if you think dark, go like 8 degrees darker and then you're probably there.

[OG]

Right. But you know what I mean. I would say even my wife liked this. Even though it is dark and intense and there are some definite scene mature scenes of gore and killing in this, somehow it is still very watchable. It's not. I wouldn't say it is. People are going to laugh or choke when I say this. It didn't seem gratuitous to me. In most cases, it seemed necessary for the overall vibe of the. Of the film. As you say, Joe, musically, it's dark. I mean, you'll notice, like, by the end of the first episode or two, there has been this deep bass line thumping or drums thumping in the background. For most of the first two hours you watch this thing, it just gives you this weight as you're watching it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

The last episode, Doug, when they're playing America the Beautiful, while nothing beautiful is happening, like the juxtaposition of the music, this beautiful, beautiful music and the horrible crap happening, you know, man's inhumanity to man.

[OG]

But you care about the characters. I mean, you do get to care about each of the characters in ways you're not expecting that you would care about them. Or you'll start to hate characters you thought you liked at first, to your point a minute ago. And it just pulls you in. You want to know what happens next. It's beautiful to watch. It's great cinematography. This is probably one of the. My favorite things that I've watched in the last several years. And it reminds me of another show that listeners are tired of hearing me recommend called Godless. It's probably my favorite western series.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I thought this was even darker than Godless.

[OG]

It is a bit darker than Godless, but gosh, Godless opens with some pretty.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Goddess, another fantastic Michelle Dockery. Jeff Bridges. Not Jeff Bridges, Jeff Daniels.

[OG]

Sorry, Daniels.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Right. Yeah. Every time Jeff Daniels gets on screen, you're sure. Somebody's going to die and godless. And you know what's funny when you talk about it not being gratuitous violence. What I liked about the violence, which is a horrible phrase. What I liked about it.

[OG]

Sentence you're not supposed to say.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

But what I liked about it was, you know, when the stakes are high enough and the stage is set correctly, then you get this violence. That I completely understand why it's happening. Well, and by the way, when violence happens, you can see it coming from a mile away because it's supposed to happen.

[OG]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You're about to put these people together in a scene that, you know, when they get together, bad juju's going to happen. You know, you're like, I don't want to see this. I don't want this to happen. But what. What choice do we have? Oh, my God. And how emotionally attached I was. There's a scene in maybe the fourth episode where the woman who is trying to get out west to meet the boy's father, she insists for the second time on doing something really stupid. And I am yelling at the screen, oh, my God.

[OG]

Yes.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And just the fact that I am so emotionally involved that I'm yelling at the screen, I'm like, listen to Isaac. The hell are you doing? Listen to Isaac. And she doesn't do it. And then it's funny later on when she mouths, I'm sorry to him. I laughed out loud. I was like, you're not sorry enough. You cannot be sorry enough.

[OG]

Yeah. You know, and I'm glad you brought up her. This didn't dawn on me until probably three quarters of the way through. This whole thing pivots around two very strong female characters. I mean, that could be a reason why my wife enjoyed it. And it's similar for Godless, but it is great to see two really strong female characters that most of the storyline pivots around either directly because of them or. Or indirectly. So, you know, I cared the least about probably was the kid and you.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You.

[OG]

I probably should have cared the most about the kid, but I like the.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Kid'S relationship with the guide.

[OG]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I thought that was a nice. The storyline, the attachments, the pairings of people. I mean, the relationships between people. Jim Bridger in this story, I really like as a character.

[OG]

I love that guy, that actor. The way he portrayed him was fantastic.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And the dude they got to play, Brigham Young, amazing, amazing actor.

[OG]

Because he was like, you hated him.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You absolutely 100% hated him.

[OG]

Oh, he was just gross.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. So absolutely ruthless. But Then you think about the position that he's in where he is trying to ensure their ability to continue as Mormons because everybody's trying to kill them. So he's doing this shady behind the back stuff. But in his head, it's all righteous because the ends justifies these horrible, horrible, horrible means darkness wise. By the way, I would put this on par with Peaky Blinders. I think it is Peaky Blinders. Peaky Blinders. Dark. So Cheryl got grossed out by Peaky Blinders. Would not watch Peaky Blinders. After the first couple, she's like, it's just too dark. She, much like your spouse Doug, made it all the way through this. And she said the longer it went, the more she liked it. The first episode, she didn't want to watch. The second episode, she was that turned off. The second episode, she's like, okay, I'm in. In the third episode, she's like, oh, this just gets better. And at the end. But man, we got to the. We got to the end and we both turned it off. We're like, that's maybe the darkest shit we've ever watched. It's just so, so, so.

[OG]

It was surprising. And I'm glad to hear you say that. Cheryl had a similar response. I mean, my wife has a pretty strong bedtime. She sticks to her bedtime pretty closely within, give or take, 20 minutes. And I think we got through episode four and we were like 30 minutes away from her bedtime. And she wanted to watch the last two episodes like she was going to stay up for all of it. That's how much she had gotten pulled in. She didn't like. Nope. As your doctor, I need to advise you, let's not. Because there was still like an hour and a half left. But, yeah, that's how much she. She really liked it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

The body count in this movie is incredibly high. And what's funny is, is that to your point, Doug, it's not the body count that I think about, you know, and it's not like somebody. I was reading somebody talking about, oh, Joe didn't like another Marvel movie, like somebody rolling their eyes at me. But I don't like the fact that it's just gratuitous violence. And I don't care. I cared every time there was violence.

[OG]

I think that's well put and a good observation. I didn't really think of it that way, but they set the stakes up in a way that I. There might have been one or two scenes. Somebody listening to this is going to go watch it and say, are you kidding me? What about the scene with the. Yeah, there might have been one or two, but it doesn't stand out as.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah.

[OG]

I never like, detached myself from the show to the point where I'm like, oh, come on, what did you do that for? That was, you know, because when I'm watching movies and I detach myself like that, that's the minute I'm out.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, agreed.

[OG]

And I'll, I'll finish it, but Because I'm so far into it. But that never happened to me in this show.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And that is to the person that, you know, rolled their. Oh, Joe didn't like it. It's just that one thing I need to care about what happens. And you're right. I'll watch the rest of the movie. But I'm like, oh, yeah. No, I just. Okay.

[OG]

But it sounds like we both agree this is a show for OG like, he will 100%. He'll like this. Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

The history in the show, even though it's fiction. I felt like the attention to detail in the show.

[OG]

Oh, gosh. Yeah. I mean, you feel like they took a camera back in time. Oh, it is incredible.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And the beautiful shot, the gorgeous, gorgeous way that this was shot, like the cinematography is just incredible. They paid attention to everything. I thought this was incredibly, incredibly well done. By the way, one more thing, Doug, just for you, what did you think about the. I'm going to try to put this in a non spoilery way. What'd you think about the Romeo and Juliet kind of ending on one character's story arc?

[OG]

I loved it. I loved it. And I love that they waited so long to make that happen. To not only make the. Yeah, I'm glad they waited so long because if it had happened sooner, I would have been. I probably would have rolled my eyes.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah.

[OG]

So I thought it was true to her character and Yeah, I, I just, I can't think of any. There wasn't the. There's probably one scene that's coming to my mind right now that I, I thought could have been removed. Didn't think it was super necessary. But when that little girl with the doll baited the group into their camp. Yeah, that was the one I thought we probably could have done without this. And it wouldn't have taken anything away from the show. But other than that. Yeah, I just. I'd watch it again. Honestly. It was that good.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That's interesting because I didn't think about that. But you're right. That had no bearing on anything at the end.

[OG]

I don't think so.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

No. I mean, I already felt like events were moving along possibly.

[OG]

I mean, there was a scene where it showed. It added depth to her character for what she was willing to do, for what she wanted to accomplish, because she went, I would say, most willingly.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Connection between the main characters as well.

[OG]

Yeah. So, I mean, there's a. But you could. It would like. We were already headed there. They were already accomplishing that. I don't know that that thing was necessary, but other than that, I can't think of too much I'd pull out.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. So there it is. Stackers, American Primeval. Doug and I apparently hated it.

[Doug]

I think you guys talked about that for longer than the show.