Let's Start a Money Revolution (SB1704)

Summary

The Stacking Benjamins Show: Episode SB1704 – "Let's Start a Money Revolution"

Release Date: July 4, 2025

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Introduction

On this special Independence Day episode of The Stacking Benjamins Show, hosts Joe Saul-Sehy and OG delve into the concept of a "money revolution." With the theme centered around overthrowing bad financial habits and igniting positive change, the episode features insightful conversations with financial revolutionaries: Jesse Kramer, Dorothea Kelly, and Steve Stewart. Joined by their neighbor Doug, the hosts navigate through personal stories, practical strategies, and engaging trivia to inspire listeners to take control of their financial destinies.

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Personal Stories of Financial Revolutions

Joe Saul-Sehy initiates the discussion by sharing his own catalyst moment for financial transformation:

Joe Saul-Sehy [09:24]: "I had to say, you know what? Screw this, I got to do better. Like for you, Dorothea, was it a money revolution?"

Dorothea Kelly recounts her gradual awakening to financial independence:

Dorothea Kelly [09:52]: "I was a single mother... I had to teach myself. There was absolutely a revolution. It took a lot of mindset changes."

Jesse Kramer describes his slow-burning realization to take control of his finances:

Jesse Kramer [12:21]: "It was years and years of a slow grind... enough was enough."

Steve Stewart shares his pivotal moment in 2007 when a failed purchase spurred him to eliminate debt:

Steve Stewart [12:54]: "In 2007, I decided, this is it. I'm getting rid of the debt. I cut up my credit cards and paid off the car as fast as we could."

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Strategies to Overcome Debt

The guests offer actionable advice for listeners battling debt:

1. Stop the Leaking

   • Jesse Kramer emphasizes halting debt accumulation:

     Jesse Kramer [18:46]: "The first thing they should do... stop the leaking."

2. Pause and Reflect

   • Dorothea Kelly advises taking a step back to prevent falling into more debt:

     Dorothea Kelly [19:48]: "Definitely. Pause. People often look for more debt to cover existing debt."

3. Stack Ranking Debts

   • Jesse Kramer suggests prioritizing debts by interest rates:

     Jesse Kramer [19:23]: "Start paying down the highest interest rate debts first."

4. Increase Income

   • Dorothea Kelly highlights the importance of finding additional income streams:

     Dorothea Kelly [19:48]: "You have to get another job because your income does not allow you to cover your expenses."

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Lifestyle Creep and Comparison

The hosts and guests discuss how increasing income can lead to greater spending, trapping individuals in a cycle of financial instability:

Jesse Kramer [22:26]: "That's a revolution against our human brains... envy is... the worst of the seven sins."

Joe Saul-Sehy remarks on the pervasive influence of the rat race in urban settings:

Joe Saul-Sehy [24:07]: "In Detroit, you can feel the rat race... PTA meetings... thousand-dollar baby showers."

Dorothea Kelly advises focusing on personal goals rather than societal pressures:

Dorothea Kelly [24:35]: "Focus on your goals. Don't compare yourself to what everyone else has."

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Breaking Up with Bad Money Advice

In the second half of the episode, the discussion shifts to identifying and discarding ineffective financial strategies:

Steve Stewart critiques the "Buy Now, Pay Later" model:

Steve Stewart [21:24]: "If I can't pay cash for it, then I don't buy it. It introduces future obligations that complicate budgeting."

Jesse Kramer talks about the pitfalls of declaring financial independence too late:

Jesse Kramer [46:02]: "People need a tax revolution... optimizing for tax rates now and in the future."

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Tax Efficiency and Planning

The hosts delve into advanced topics of tax planning, emphasizing its importance in achieving long-term financial wellness:

Jesse Kramer [46:02]: "Pre-retirement and post-retirement tax strategies can significantly impact your savings and compounding growth."

Dorothea Kelly underscores the necessity of proactive tax planning:

Dorothea Kelly [47:16]: "Tax planning is the hardest part... make sure you don't owe year after year."

Steve Stewart advocates for systemic changes like the Fair Tax:

Steve Stewart [49:08]: "Passing the Fair Tax HR25 would simplify the tax system and eliminate many financial planning complexities."

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Rallying the Troops: Engaging Family and Community

The episode highlights the significance of involving family and building supportive communities in one's financial revolution:

Dorothea Kelly shares how surrounding oneself with financially savvy individuals can foster better habits:

Dorothea Kelly [38:12]: "Be around people who are having those kind of conversations... it's like a virtual money mentor."

Steve Stewart discusses the role of family in maintaining financial goals:

Steve Stewart [40:26]: "We involved our daughter by example, letting her learn through observation and our conversations."

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Recommendations: Financial Content Creators

Guests recommend valuable resources for further financial education:

• Dorothea Kelly endorses Money Coach Vince for his impactful content on TikTok and Instagram.
• Steve Stewart suggests Ty McNeely from "His and Her Money" for evergreen financial advice.
• Jesse Kramer points to Warren Buffett's wisdom as a source of timeless financial insights.

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Engaging Trivia: Grains of Silver per Dollar (1792)

To add a fun twist, the show featured a trivia segment about the historical value of silver:

Doug [28:19]: "In the coinage act of 1792, how many grains of silver equaled $1?"

Participants guessed various numbers, with Jesse Kramer ultimately winning with his closest guess of 371.25 grains. Doug revealed the correct answer as 371.25 grains of silver per dollar.

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Conclusion: Taking Action for a Financial Revolution

Wrapping up, the hosts emphasize the episode's key takeaway: initiating a personal money revolution requires intentional actions, supportive communities, and informed strategies. Listeners are encouraged to implement the discussed tips, seek out reliable financial advice, and engage with recommended content creators to sustain their journey toward financial independence.

Joe Saul-Sehy [56:50]: "What should we have learned on today's show? Take advice from Dorothea, stay out of debt like Steve, and avoid the pitfalls of bad money habits."

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Final Thoughts

The Stacking Benjamins Show successfully combines engaging conversations, practical advice, and light-hearted moments to inspire listeners to revolutionize their financial lives. By sharing personal stories, expert strategies, and community resources, hosts Joe and OG create an empowering environment for anyone looking to take control of their finances.

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Notable Quotes:

• Dorothea Kelly [09:52]: "I had to have my own revolution to say, I want a different life."
• Jesse Kramer [18:46]: "The first thing they should do... stop the leaking."
• Steve Stewart [21:24]: "If I can't pay cash for it, then I don't buy it."
• Jesse Kramer [46:02]: "Tax strategies can significantly impact your savings and compounding growth."
• Dorothea Kelly [38:12]: "It's like a virtual money mentor."

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Follow Us:

• Dorothea Kelly: [e-mail] | TikTok: @DorotheaKelly | YouTube: Money Chats
• Steve Stewart: stevestewart.com | Podcast Editor Academy: podcastedteracademy.com
• Jesse Kramer: Podcast: Personal Finance for Long Term Investors | Social: @pflypodcast

For more details, visit StackingBenjamins.com and follow us on YouTube and all major social media platforms.

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Disclaimer: The content provided in this summary is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as financial advice. Always consult with a qualified financial advisor before making any financial decisions.

Transcript

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

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[Doug]

I am. Hit record.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I think we're recording.

[Steve Stewart]

We are recording.

[Doug]

Oh, cool. I wish somebody told me. I wouldn't have said all the stupid stuff. Hey, Joe, it's summer blockbuster movie season, right? I mean, I know you're into movies. You're probably going to go to a couple of. We get F1, we got. What is it? Thunderbolts is coming. The surfers coming out. Check this out. When will you finally declare your financial independence? Well, hopefully right now, because live from the basement of the YouTube headquarters, it's the Stacking Benjamin Show.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Foreign.

[Doug]

I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and this Independence Day, let's start a revolution. Who's with me today? We're talking about how to burn down the barriers of debt, overthrow bad planning and start anew. But that's not all. Of course, we'd never build a newer and better financial plan that didn't include our awesome Friday trivia competition. And now, here's a guy who's lighting the lantern and shouting the same savings are coming. The savings are coming. It's Joe. See High.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Hey there, stackers. And Happy Friday to you. If you're in the United States, Happy Independence Day. If you're anywhere else, Happy Friday. We do have a special show for you today because we are celebrating money revolutions and we got a few revolutionaries here with us. So sit back and relax because we're about to have not a lot of tips per minute, but a lot of fun conversation about great money topics and so our first revolutionary, he's the guy that doesn't throw tea in the harbor, but he will toss out your tired old money habits. Mr. Jesse Kramer's here. How are you, man?

[Jesse Kramer]

Doing well, I wasn't sure if that was going to be my intro or not, but. Yep, big Tea Party fan. Sometimes just me and my dolls. Sometimes on a boat, but either way, happy to be here.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, sometimes you and your dolls. Sometimes on a boat, but does that to be either or you could have your dolls on the boat.

[Jesse Kramer]

That's special occasions. But that might be this weekend. That might be July 4th weekend. It's that special.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Fantastic. And guess who else we got with us, Jesse.

[Jesse Kramer]

Who else?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

We have a woman from Detroit, Michigan. She says, down with tyranny and down with monthly banking fees.

[Dorothea Kelly]

That's right, my friend.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Money Chat. Dorothea Kelly's back. How are you?

[Dorothea Kelly]

Hey. So happy to be here.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It has been too long. It's been far too long. I know. How have you been?

[Dorothea Kelly]

I have been amazing.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You've been mastering Tick tock lately. You've been all over.

[Dorothea Kelly]

Yes, I am mastering Tick tock all over it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

So we find you at Dorothea Kelly or at Money chat on TikTok.

[Dorothea Kelly]

I am Dorothea on All right, all things social media.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You know what we're doing, we're going to link to it in the show notes, everybody. Because you want to follow Dorothea Kelly.

[Dorothea Kelly]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Money chats, though, Dorothea, super important when you're trying to, quote, overthrow your money situation and start a revolution.

[Dorothea Kelly]

Absolutely. Because what you don't talk about, you don't do, Right?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Gotta say it out loud.

[Dorothea Kelly]

It's not just about what you're saying. It's about the strategies that you're putting behind it. So we can all make up stuff and say anything. There's no revolution in that. The revolution is in the action that you take behind what you're saying and your goals. So absolutely.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, guess what? We got a guy for the revolution today with us. Dorothy, you know who else is here?

[Dorothea Kelly]

Who is it?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It is a guy who's crossing the Delaware debt to plant the flag of freedom on your muddy mountain. He's on every single episode, but you rarely hear him on the mic and he is a big part of every episode. Steve Stewart is here. How are you, man?

[Steve Stewart]

Hey, long time listener.

[Doug]

Long.

[Steve Stewart]

I was listening to Stacking Benjamin show before it was Attacking Benjamin Show. Long time listener.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, and what's funny, brother, is that we were listening to your awesome show Money Plan SOS before Stacking Benjamin.

[Steve Stewart]

That was fun. We got to meet in Fincon in 2012. You actually tackled me at the elevator. I think it was just before I went up to my hotel room and I had no idea who you were. And it's been a brotherhood ever since. You're my type of guy.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I have been. I have been just a stalking, a Steve stalker since the very beginning.

[Doug]

Find out who you were after he pressed charges.

[Dorothea Kelly]

Like, oh, never mind.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yes. For people who are new to the Stacking Benjamin's universe. Steve has been editing the Stacky Benjamin show since near the very beginning. I did it myself for a while, Steve. And then you took over. And by the way, Steve didn't have any gray hair before he started working with us.

[Steve Stewart]

This is relatively new past decade.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

All right, we've got Steve here, we got Dorothea, we got Jesse, we got neighbor Doug and me. We're gonna start a money revolution. So we're gonna talk all things. What do you got to do to start that fire? Right, to get things going when it comes to your money, we're going to have a lot of fun with that today. Before that, we got a couple sponsors that make sure we can keep on keeping on. So we're going to hear from them. And then Dorothea, Jesse, Steve, Doug and me, we're going to dive into starting the money revolution. I know personally that debt isn't just about money. It's about stress and sleepless nights and that constant weight on your shoulders. It can affect your relationships. It can shred your confidence. Truly, it can overshadow your whole life. So know that if you've ever felt any of that, you're not alone. There are millions of Americans struggling with debt and. But there's a solution that can help. Beyond Finance was founded with a simple mission. To help those struggling with overwhelming debt find a pathway to financial freedom. They can help you escape that endless cycle of making just minimum payments. Typical Beyond Finance clients see their payments on enrolled debt lowered by 40% or more. So you can expect immediate relief and the chance to start saving. The team prioritizes a hands on compassionate approach coupled with a focus on helping you get out of debt as soon as possible, save money and establish long term financial wellbeing. They offer personalized 24. 7 support and financial wellness sessions with accredited financial therapist. And you know you're in good hands with a trust pilot rating of 4.6 out of 5 stars. So if you're ready to take that first step or learn more about achieving financial wellness, visit Beyond Finance. Visit not available in all states. Fees vary by state. Results may Vary. This episode is brought to you by Navy Federal Credit Union. Navy Federal can help you find and finance the right vehicle with ease. With Navy Federal's car buying service Powered by True Car, you can find the vehicle that's right for you. As you search through inventory, compare models and you could get an amazing rate when you finance with Navy Federal. Visit navy federal.org truecar to learn more. Navy Federal Credit Union, our members are the mission. Navy Federal is insured by NCUA Credit and collateral subject to approval. You know, before we get started, we're not the only ones. By the way, guys, we are live on YouTube. We got Dan hanging out with us in Maryland. Dan who's Baltimore Orioles Doug. They're not having the year they had last year.

[Doug]

No, no. That was an anomaly, let's be honest.

[Jesse Kramer]

Wow.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Dan, send your hate mail to Doug not to be Matt from Charlotte, North Carolina. Here. Eric is here from Minnesota. We got Bradley hanging out. Kyle from Vermont. Love Vermont. And of course love Kyle, except for the fact that he went to the University of Michigan, that horrible, horrible school. If it's the Kyle I think it is B in California in the high desert. Jessica in Colorado. Thanks for hanging out. We generally make the show on Wednesday afternoon, so if you get a chance, come and watch us make the show. But let's start off, guys, talking about this idea of a money revolution. Because, you know, some people were good with money from the very beginning. But for me, I had to have a gigantic wake up call. Like it truly was a revolution. I had to say, you know what? Screw this, I got to do better. Like for you, Dorothea, was it a money revolution? Did you have to smack yourself upside the head and say, let's do things a lot differently or were you good from the beginning?

[Dorothea Kelly]

No, there was no good from the beginning. The beginning was very, very rocky. I was a single mother. Everybody I saw was broke. And I was like, is this, this cannot be how life should be lived. I had to have my own revolution to say, I want a different life, then teach myself. Because there was nobody to teach me. So there was absolutely a revolution. And it took a lot of mindset changes for me. So especially when your surroundings, you don't see too much else.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

For me, it was a set day, Dorothea. I was actually out in Ann Arbor, speaking of that horrible town. I was in Ann Arbor and I ran out of gas one day and I was walking to the gas station when I realized just how screwed I was and how I had to do things a ton different. Like there was a day when my revolution started, did yours have a day or was it kind of slower build?

[Dorothea Kelly]

I think it was a slower build. I think for me, it wasn't a day because I was so young and I was on my own so early that. That it just was my life was the revolution, and I was like. I knew I wanted something different. So there was not a day when I said, you know what? I got to do something different.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah.

[Dorothea Kelly]

The way I started life as a young adult, I immediately knew that wasn't how I wanted to live.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

But still, the people you're around, teaching yourself, teaching your kids, like all this stuff all completely revolutionary.

[Dorothea Kelly]

Absolutely. And I will say this, though. The creditor calls crying to myself to sleep at night. Those are moments along the revolution, right. That make you say, never again. So I. I would say, and I bet a bunch of folks would agree with me, I never wanted a creditor to call me again because that was crazy. It was stressful. And the things they would say to you was inhuman.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I was gonna say Dorothea. The ones I got. I don't know if they were like mine, but the ones I got, those people to call him is being incredibly nice.

[Dorothea Kelly]

Very nice. Very kind of you.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Let's see, about. What about you, Jesse? Was it a revolution for you and your money, or were you good with money from the beginning?

[Jesse Kramer]

No. What was not good from the beginning? I can think of a few formative moments, a few times where I declared independence, as it were, from my lack of common sense by Thomas Paine. Oh, yeah, deep cut there, Doug.

[Doug]

Respect.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I love how it was, by the way, for people that missed it, it was declaring independ from common sense, not toward common sense from my.

[Jesse Kramer]

Was it my lack of common sense, but did I do a triple negative there? I tried to flip it on his head. Declared independence from my lack of common sense.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Gotcha.

[Jesse Kramer]

You know, pursued the liberty pole. And really, for me, early on, I remember thinking to myself that I could monitor and manage just simple cash flow without even paying attention to it. Like, okay, I'll just spend money the way I want to spend money, and at the end of the day, I should be fine. And after a few months of trying that, or maybe a few years of trying that, I kind of tarred and feathered that habit, put it to bed, and declared revolution on. Started measuring my money, started investing wisely. I've told that story before.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And was there a day, though? Was there a day like me, or is it more like Dorothea, where it was a. No, like a slow burn.

[Jesse Kramer]

It was years and years of it was a slow grind. And I'm trying. I'm trying to put into revolutionary terms. I'm sure the American patriots here just got sick and tired of the loyalists and taxation without representation. It wasn't one moment. Well, maybe eventually it turned into one moment in the revolution, but for me, it was just enough. Was enough.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, Just boiling point after a while. Steve, let's hear your story, man. Revolution or good with money?

[Steve Stewart]

From the beginning, I was average with money. I had frugal parents, and I just learned how to live that way. And I was only broke for a few years, maybe after high school. But then I had, you know, I was above the line on net worth, I think, for quite a while. But it wasn't until I had a pivot point. So not at like a revolution day, but a pivot point. When my wife and I went to buy her a new Jeep, I'd been listening to Dave Ramsey for a couple years, thought, oh, we're okay. We'll keep the credit cards and, you know, mortgage is fine, all that stuff. But then we went to get this Jeep, and we couldn't pay cash for it. And I'm like, we should be better than this. I really thought we should be better than this. So at that point, it was in 2007 that I decided, this is it. I'm getting rid of the debt. I cut up my credit cards, and I just paid off the car as fast as we could. It took about a year. And since then, I've been consumer debt free.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, just a mortgage, right?

[Steve Stewart]

Yeah, just a mortgage. And we paid that off early, too, in 2015, until we moved here a year ago. And now I've got a mortgage again. But we're gonna eat that really fast.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You're like, og, who's on vacation today, but you and Og like working hard to pay that mortgage off early. It's not about interest rate. It's about getting rid of the loan.

[Steve Stewart]

Yeah. And, you know, we can talk interest rates, but it's really not about that. It's about having that monthly obligation. I want to have the money that we make go towards the things that we want to buy. We made that decision when we decided to get this house that was more expensive than what we could afford at the time. So we are paying that off, Paying that price, I guess you'd say. But yeah, Og and I are in a race right now to see who can pay off their mortgage early.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That's fantastic. Well, okay, guys, let's do this. Some people need to declare Independence from debt. Right? It's revolutionary because debt keeps people financially quote, colonized. Credit cards, car loans, student loans, dictate their life. Dorothea, when you've got debt, you're not calling the shots. You know, you talked about those creditors calling. They're calling the shots.

[Dorothea Kelly]

Absolutely. They're calling the shots. And a lot of times, and we've all been here, right? We've been in a lot of places, experienced a lot of things. But one thing that really gets you with the credit cards is people assume that if I just pay the minimum payment, or maybe I'll pay a little bit more, I'll be okay. I'll still be paying the debt down. But what you really have to understand is that you have your minimum payment, but if you don't also pay all of the interest that you've incurred for that month, that is how the hole gets deeper and deeper. So if your minimum payment is $100 and you pay 150, but the interest is 180, you have not helped yourself any. And I think that people really miss that point and they're like, well, I'm making the payments. I'm paying $50 extra. Well, you're not really helping yourself because you have to pay both, and you really need to work on those lump sums to pay it off. So that credit card debt really gets people in the bind.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Dorothy. A couple weeks ago, Cheryl, my spouse and I went to Crate and Barrel because they were having this huge, like, clearance sale we're adding on to our house. We found a sofa that was about half off, which meant that it's about a reasonable price for a sofa instead of Crate and Barrel prices. Right.

[Dorothea Kelly]

I was about to say, when you said Crate and Barrel, I was like, oh, okay, right.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

But here's the deal. I found out that I would get even more off if I opened up a Crate and Barrel credit card and used the credit card and I had the money in cash. I was ready to spend cash. I opened up Crate and Barrel credit card.

[Dorothea Kelly]

Yes.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I used the credit card. I just got the agreement in the mail last week. Do you know what the interest rate is, Dorothea, to your point on that Crate and barrel credit card?

[Dorothea Kelly]

29.99%.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah.

[Dorothea Kelly]

What is it?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

33 Y. Y 33% interest. It's crazy what. What they were charging. So anyway, I got the great deal and that thing's going away.

[Dorothea Kelly]

That's what I'm saying. So you took advantage of it. You didn't need it, though. You see the difference?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

100.

[Dorothea Kelly]

So that when you Got the statement and you're like, no, I'm not paying this. You were able to get your furniture for cheaper, finance it for that moment, and then the next month pay the whole thing off.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. Steve, you're a guy who, I mean, back in money, playing SOS days today, like whenever you're appearing anywhere, you're like, just stay away from debt, stay away from credit cards. You don't play the points game. When did you declare the revolution against, against debt? But because I think about you and I think about staying out of debt.

[Steve Stewart]

Yeah, it was 2007. It was that day with the, with the Jeep and just decided that was.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It, that was it. Like not, not anything besides that. Like, I feel like family members in the past got into debt trouble or something. And that's why you were so passionate about not having debt.

[Steve Stewart]

I just knew it would be a better thing for my net worth overall. And it's so much better to have that cash available to you even on a short term basis. When you get paid, that money's yours to spend. It's not something that you have to repay back. It was really just to stay out of debt. I don't really, I do get concerned about paying interest. Sure, there's that you're paying more for something just because if you're paying interest, not paying off the debt every single month. But as far as like the credit cards and stuff, you know, the revolution for me was to also just rail against the whole you need to have credit cards to live in the United States. I haven't had credit cards since 2008, yet. We've taken trips, we've flown rented cars, hotels. There's nothing keeping me from doing anything here because I don't have any credit cards. I have a debit card, I have a bank account. I can transfer money back and forth. We pay for things with cash and cash equivalents.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Future expenses can always be in the future. I don't make money and spending it on hamburgers I had in the past.

[Steve Stewart]

Yeah, and another thing too. If you don't have the cash to pay for something, it makes you think twice about it. And it also makes you find alternative ways to get whatever it is that you're looking for. So first you're identifying, do I really need the thing? And then secondly, you're thinking, okay, if I can't pay cash now, what can I do without borrowing money to get there? Work harder, work longer, work more hours, whatever. There's a lot of creative ways people can generate income or get prices down to where they can afford the thing before they have to go and buy that. Instead of buying that $25,000 vehicle, maybe they settle for a $10,000 for the next couple of years.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Jesse, your first tip to people listening or hanging out with us on YouTube who might have a debt problem. Like, what's the first thing they should do?

[Jesse Kramer]

Ooh, really good question. The first thing they should do. My mind, there's a tie and it's either stop the leaking. That might be the first thing you want to do. It's just like, well, is the debt growing? If so, like, can you stop doing that thing that you know is like, is there a spending problem, for lack of a better term? But then tied with that is just understanding identifying the debt itself. And in my personal approach would be stack ranking it by interest rate. So I understand which debts do you have and then what's the principal amount and then what are the interest rates? Because my approach is you want to start paying down the the highest interest rate debts first.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Stop the leaking. I love that. Have you ever experienced leakage, Jesse?

[Doug]

Yeah, it's gross.

[Jesse Kramer]

Remember what I was saying earlier about my tea party?

[Steve Stewart]

Here we go.

[Doug]

I knew you weren't going to be able to let that go.

[Dorothea Kelly]

Oh, my goodness.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

What? Let what go?

[Doug]

As soon as he said leaking, I'm like, oh, here we go. I just grade locker room.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I asked a simple question, Dorothea. What's the first thing you would tell people to do when they have debt problems?

[Dorothea Kelly]

Oh, definitely. Pause. The thing is that a lot of times when people have debt problems, what do they do? They go look for more debt to cover that debt. Right. It's like, what are you doing? Like, what's happening here? But honestly, you have to get another job because your income does not allow you to cover your expenses now that you've got all this racked up, all this debt. So it's a season of extra work. It is a season of extra work. And then all the extra money you make goes to pay that debt off.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I had a friend in college named Lisa who was running her own Ponzi scheme. Dorothea. She was opening up new credit cards to pay off the old credit cards. And it was only a matter of time till we said, what's going on? She goes, at some point, my dad's going to find out.

[Dorothea Kelly]

Exactly.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I mean, how lucky, by the way, that she had a dad who was going to be able to bail her out in the first place. Right? Because for me, I didn't. My, my dad would have went, good luck.

[Dorothea Kelly]

No yeah, my mother was like, I have nothing to help you with. You're on your own.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Right, Steve, anything to add? When people are first staring down the barrel of debt, starting the revolution.

[Steve Stewart]

Dorothea just answered it. How could I even expound on that? She has the answers. All the answers come from her.

[Dorothea Kelly]

You gotta work.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

All right, all right. Well, Steve, let's stick with you for the second one. Because you know what? There's getting into debt and then there's this amazing thing where there is no interest called buy now, pay later now, right? I mean, I can buy it now. I can have the thing, but I don't have to pay right away. And as long as I make the four easy payments or whatever, there's zero interest due. What could be wrong with that?

[Steve Stewart]

It sounds so great, doesn't it? But I go back to my original principle that if I can't pay cash for it, then I don't buy it. Because now I've got that obligation coming out in the future. Even if it's a zero, or even if I get it at a discount, it's still going to be an obligation in the future. And I like simplicity. I like it to be easy. I like my budget to show what I'm paying for and what I want to buy and not what I have purchased and what I have to go back and pay off. It's just a simplicity type of easy living.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

So another thing on here, another revolutionary concept. Let's overthrow the demons of lifestyle creep. Why, this is revolutionary. The more you make, the more you spend, the more you stay stuck. The revolution. Draw a line in the sand and say, you know what? I'm not going to do that. And yet, Jesse, you know, you look at the neighbors down the street, they got a new car. You, you look at the nice neighborhood, man, that's just a little bit nicer neighborhood you live in. You've got a child now. You're like, if I could bring up my child in that neighborhood versus this neighborhood and I only got to stretch a little bit.

[Jesse Kramer]

Yeah, that's a revolution against our human brains, right? Our comparison brains, our jealous brains. What is it? Charlie Munger has this really good quote. Basically saying that like envy. Envy is like the worst of the seven sins. And it's. Well, he says it because it's the only one that you don't get any joy from. Which is pretty funny if you think about it. But he's got a good point where it's just like envy is this. You know, we all have it and we see what Other people have. We want that thing, too. I was just having a really good conversation with Spencer, who runs a podcast called the Military Money Manual. And I was asking him because he was kind of telling me about his military career and how, like, you know, as you rank up, you get more income and some other benefits too. And I was like, well, when you ranked up, when you first became, like a captain, did you look around at, like, what all the other captains have? And did you feel some of that? And he's like, yeah, a little bit. But sometimes yes, sometimes no. But it's all around us. Like, there are hierarchies all around us. And it's only natural, it's only human to compare yourself to other people in your hierarchy. But then also maybe above you, too, or even worse, maybe. I don't know. When someone. What's that one famous quote? There's like, Warren Buffett says it is. There's nothing that makes you feel worse than when your neighbor who's, like, stupider than you is making more money. I know it's a harsh quote, but Warren Buffett said it. But, like, there's something. There's something human where, like, we compare ourselves to others. We try to rank ourselves compared to others.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That moron make it more than me.

[Doug]

He just described what I feel like every time I'm on this show.

[Jesse Kramer]

It's exactly right. But I think it is. We really need to try hard to overcome all of those thought processes, whether they lead to lifestyle creepy itself or whether it's just that feeling of envy and jealousy that brings us down because other people have nicer things than us. It's hard to do, but really important.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Dorothea, one difference between when you and I were neighbors in Detroit and living now back in small town America, Texarkana, is that in the Detroit area? I could feel the rat race. You could just. You just feel that around you when you're at the grocery store, when you're at kids events, right? Oh, my goodness, PTA meetings, you could just feel this rat race.

[Dorothea Kelly]

I'm gonna tell you. Let me tell you.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

How do you set it aside? Yeah.

[Dorothea Kelly]

Well, one time my daughter was in high school and we moved, had moved to the suburbs so she could get a good education, right? I'm in this PTA meeting. There's this trip, and I think the trip was like a thousand dollars. And I'm sitting there like, okay, what is the payment plan? Because. And everybody else is like, can I write a check? And I was like, wait, what? Like, hold on. So you don't Want to be like, what's the payment plan? When everybody else is like, yeah, I can write a check, you get my credit card. You really have to be confident who you are and your goals. And social media does not help. Like, we're talking about the in person lifestyle. When you're at the grocery store and you're riding around, everybody's got these different kind of cars and these fancy, you know, the parents with the baby strollers, like thousand dollar baby showers. Like, what is happening here? And you really have to focus on your goals. But here's something that might bring some levity for everybody. Some people are doing great. They've got the money, that's cool. But you don't know the situation. You have no idea what's really going on behind closed doors. You don't, like, I'm a coach, you guys. We're all in this money game, so we've heard all the stories. Who is, you know, refinancing this? Who is going into deep debt to keep up with other people who really shouldn't have bought that luxury vehicle but just had to have it because I worked so hard, Right? You cannot compare yourself to what everybody else has going on, even if what they have going on is real and true and great and they really have all that money.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It's funny, the display of wealth to your point, when I was a financial planner, Dorothy, it was exactly 100% what you're talking about. Display of wealth and having money, two totally different things. When you got to see behind the hood, you're like, really? You know you're spending every dollar you make so that you look great.

[Dorothea Kelly]

Yes.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

All right, in the second half of today, I want to talk about breaking up with bad money advice. There's a revolution. We talked a little bit about that on the show last week. Starting a tax revolt, maybe even storming the gates of financial literacy and more. But before we do that, at the halfway point of every Friday show, we have this year long competition between our three freako contributors, OG Jesse and Paula Pant. Just to keep things easy, we'll keep genders the same. So Dorothea, you'll play on behalf of Paula. How about that? Steve, you'll play on behalf of OG which means, Dorothea. That means there's some good news and bad news playing for Paula. You want the good news or the bad news?

[Dorothea Kelly]

Let's go with the good news first.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, the good news is, is that you're going to get to guess last because you are tied with Jesse, which means bad news for Steve. Steve, playing for OG. OG's out in front of. But by how much? Doug, what's the score of this contest so far for 20? 25.

[Jesse Kramer]

Why don't I just get the point? Can we. Can we just agree to this, please?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

We could save ourselves 15 minutes.

[Jesse Kramer]

Here's a revolutionary idea for you. Give me the point, please.

[Doug]

Well, Joe, we've got Paula and Jesse are tied at five and a half and. Oh, geez, way out front with nine points right now.

[Dorothea Kelly]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

All right, so Dorothea and Jesse, you got a mission here. Either Jesse needs the point, or Dorothea slash Paula needs the point. Steve, you can leave the brains at home today. Gotta have a trivia question, though. What's on your mind this holiday weekend, Doug?

[Doug]

Well, Joe, this is a trivia question that we spent at least four and a half minutes researching, so I just can't wait for. For everybody to hear this one. Hey there, stackers. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and this discussion has been pure gold, hasn't it? But on today's date, way back in 1792, the young and lean US government passed a bill to make things way better for US Currency. They called it the Big Beautiful Money Bill.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

No, that's not. That wasn't a thing back. We didn't have to name all the bills back in the day.

[Doug]

No, no. Okay. All right. Well, before bill naming became a thing, they just called it the coinage act of 1792. Look, there are two words for that. Bore ring. I mean, there's a reason they wrote all the boring bills before the Internet. Anyway, in this act, the US Congress decided to use the silver standard to standardize the first official US Currency. So here's the question. How many grains of silver? And I can see the wtfs on your face right now. Yes, grains is an official measurement of silver. How many grains of silver equaled $1 back in 1792 when they established the standard? I'll be back right after I change Joe's mom's ringtone to Yankee Doodle. Oh, that's gonna be funny.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, that's just hilarious. Serious. Doug's got all the good jokes. We're talking grains of silver.

[Doug]

Silver.

[Dorothea Kelly]

Yeah. And by the way, so sorry, Paula.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Before we get to grains of silver, by the way, Doug, you said wtf? I saw somebody online last week who said they told their mom that WTF meant wow, that's fantastic. And so when they she found out her niece had a baby, she wrote wtf. When she found out that another family was getting married, she wrote wtf? A lot of unintended consequences.

[Doug]

That's like the people who use the. The laughing, crying emoji because they see tears and they'll use it for a sad thing. Yeah. Oh, my. My aunt passed away and then they send the oh, no emoji.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, we had what, Mindy Jensen, on talking about how she noticed there was a random vegetable, so she sent everybody eggplants when she would send emails. So good. All right, Steve, you're guessing first. Grains of silver. How many grains of Silver back in 1792 equaled a dollar? Grains? Really? Grains is this kind of like unit of measurement for silver, like pound and pound.

[Steve Stewart]

There's money. Pounds. And the weight of pounds is there's grains in silver.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

There is.

[Steve Stewart]

Good Lord. Okay, I'm just going to throw a number out there because there's absolutely no way I can Paula my way through that type of a question.

[Doug]

Did he just use Paula's name as a verb?

[Steve Stewart]

I'm pointing it tm.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Paula. You're right.

[Steve Stewart]

I'm asking for og. So let me do all the OG isms.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

We're kind of hoping you pollo your way through it and don't get it. Right.

[Steve Stewart]

Yeah. Okay, so what would OG say? He would say, I have no idea. No bleeping idea. I would probably just go ahead and say 1.5 million grains.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

1.5 million grains. Jesse, I'm going to go lower.

[Jesse Kramer]

We'll establish that. I'm going to go. I have no idea as well.

[Steve Stewart]

Yeah, up on his phone.

[Jesse Kramer]

No, no, no, no, no. I'm looking down at my notes. I don't know if you can see my notepad here where I was doing some calculations to figure out the grains or. Yeah, just sit. Right. I'm thinking to myself, like, a grain of sand. Right. How many grains of sand would I have to smelt to create something that's the size of a coin? That's kind of what I was thinking. So I'm gonna go with 800 grains.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

800 grains. Dorothea, you got 800. One point something. Million from Steve. One point. What million? Steve?

[Steve Stewart]

1.5. What the heck?

[Doug]

1.5.

[Dorothea Kelly]

Listen. A million. Listen, I have absolutely no idea.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It's going to be a million grains. All right, we got a million. We got a million. 500,000. And we have just. You had 500 and what?

[Jesse Kramer]

I think I said 800 grains.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

800 grains. Sorry. All right. And 800 grains. How many grains are right? We're going to find out in just a minute. We'll be right back. Small business Owners State farms there with small business insurance to fit your specific needs. Whether you're starting a new venture or growing an existing one, State Farm helps you choose the right coverage to protect what matters most. Working with a local State Farm agent helps you understand your coverage options, offering local support to help you achieve your goals. Focus on turning your passion into a thriving business, knowing your insurance can change as your business grows. Stay Farm here to help you succeed with your business like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. The Black Friday in July event from Dell Technologies is here with great offers on trusted technology.

[Jesse Kramer]

You'll also discover huge deals on new.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

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[Jesse Kramer]

Upgrade today by visiting Dell.com deals.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

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[Jesse Kramer]

On your next campaign.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Get started today at LinkedIn.com/results, terms and conditions apply. Steve, you kicked off this shindig by saying 1.5 million grains. Everybody else thought that was too many grains. You can never have enough grains though, can you?

[Steve Stewart]

No. That's great for your diet. Yeah, the fiber that comes along with stuff like that.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That's right. OG would be proud at Jesse. You went with 800. I think a factor many X's below 1.5 million. What do you think? Feeling good.

[Jesse Kramer]

I'm not feeling good about the guess of 800, but only in comparison to the much higher guesses. I am feeling good only because here's my thought, it's 1792. You're writing a coinage act. You're wondering, okay, we're going to make these coins. I assume one has to be able to count out the grains, potentially that would go into a coin. I'm not sure how that all works. I'm just a modern. I'm not a. I'm a modern thinker. I'm not a 1700s thinker, but if anything, I don't know. I think the answer might be like 17. So I'm feeling okay.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I don't know. We'll see if Jesse's math in his head actually makes any sense. Dorothea, you went well, not quite down the middle. You went with a million. Feeling good?

[Dorothea Kelly]

Yeah. Yeah. Feeling great.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

She's like, just give Us the answer. Come on, put us out of our misery, Doug. Who's going to win this thing?

[Doug]

Well, hey there, stackers. I'm expert pranker yet guy who didn't know Joe's mom's ringtone was already Yankee Doodle Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. Ah, the coinage act of 1792. That old pearl. I'll bet there were fireworks that day as advocates of pyrite saw their metal cast aside and even slanderously called fool's gold. Heck, quartz and calcite didn't stand a chance because it was silver's big day. As today's question, the US Congress pegged the value of a dollar on just how many grains of silver. Well, I'm not going to give you the answer. This is OG's favorite part. I will tell you. The correct answer is 1,499,628.8 less than. Than what Steve guessed.999.628.75 less than what Dorothea guessed and just 428.75 less than what Jesse guessed because the correct answer is.371.25 grains of silver, making Jesse our winner. Let me do some math for you folks out there who I know are thinking about it. Yes, Yes. A grain is an actual unit of measurement. One grain equals about 0.155 gram, or.005 ounces. And based on today's silver price. Yes, I checked this. That's worth about $28.18 today. Congratulations, Jesse. You get no silver.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Just a single grain is worth 28 bucks.

[Doug]

No, no, no, no. The 371 grains, that equaled a dollar in 1792. Because you can go online. They still measure silver in grain. So I found a site online and it says how many grains you have? 371.25. And it tells you based on today's price. This was as of like, I don't know, one o' clock earlier today, it was $28.18. So there's some interesting thought process there. Between 1792, that was a buck, and today it's only 2818. Talk about that money.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You wonder how Doug finds these websites. It's late at night. He's got all the lights off.

[Doug]

I turn all the trackers off when I'm going.

[Jesse Kramer]

Drinking tea, right.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And goes and finds out how many grains of silver. All right. Congratulations, Jesse. Nice work, man.

[Jesse Kramer]

Thank you very much. Feels good. I'm off the schneide.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You were still. It was what, half of the Number that you had.

[Jesse Kramer]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Let's get in the second half of our discussion because, man, do we need a revolution. Let's talk about rallying the troops, AKA your family. Right? We're gonna have a revolution, Dorothea. We need better people around us. Maybe not even our family, but maybe better advisors, maybe better surround sound, maybe better tools at our hands.

[Dorothea Kelly]

Yes, absolutely. I like the fact that you said not maybe just our family and friends, but also our tools, because some people may not have. I am blessed that I do have a lot of family and friends who later were able to kind of rally around me, but some people don't have that. And they do need to either find a new community of people, find tools and different things. For me, one thing that really was impactful was I had an uncle and him and his wife had just bought a home, beautiful home. He had a plan to pay that home off in five years. That just. That one statement was like, what? I never heard anyone talk like that. So you need to be around people who are having those kind of conversations. It may not be your family and friends, it may be somebody, another community that you're involved in, but they're having those kind of conversations without the scamminess of things that can go on.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I love the title of your book, moneychats, because money chats. I mean, we're having a money chat right here. And if it's your first time in one of these, man, they are all over the place, Dorothea. People always say there's no place to look. And yet YouTube is filled with people having conversations like we're having right now.

[Dorothea Kelly]

Exactly. So use the tools at your disposal. Like I was saying, social media. Now, we do have to be careful because some of it is not good advice. But vet the people that you're following. And some of you, because you said.

[Doug]

Some of it's not good advice.

[Dorothea Kelly]

Right, right. Because, I mean, I've heard some stuff, I've heard some stuff, but vet the people, follow the people, See what makes sense for you and what applies. Because there is some really, like stacking Benjamin's. There's some really good quality advice that you can get by following those folks. It's almost like you're a virtual money mentor.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I love that. I love the advice that our firm, Roger Whitney, gives Dorothea, which is if somebody is online, they're talking about product run away. If they're talking about process and way to think, that's when you latch on.

[Dorothea Kelly]

That's right.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Steve, you said that getting the Jeep changed everything, but it's not just you, you've got a daughter, you've got a spouse. Like, how does the Steve Stewart team, How do you get the whole team involved so that it becomes a team sport?

[Steve Stewart]

It's drawing out that picture of what you want to be. You know, they always say, what do you want to have? Or what do you want to be in five years? Picturing what you want to have in the next decade, what is going to look like? It never, ever works out that way, but at least you're heading towards that goal. That was what kept us moving forward is just be able to say, we don't want to be like we used to be, we want to improve. And then this is what we want to look like in five or 10 years.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Do you feel like your daughter has good money habits?

[Steve Stewart]

She does. And we never actually like just sat her down at the table and wagged our fingers and said, here's what you got to do. She just seemed to learn by observation and hearing the conversations. Like Dorothea was saying, just overhearing something, it's like, oh, I, I think that's what she absorbed because she's got a good head on her shoulders. She's making some good decisions.

[Doug]

You never had the sweetheart, here's how a dollar is made. It's time you learned mansplaining.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Mansplaining money.

[Doug]

Did you know how many grains really love each other?

[Steve Stewart]

They turn into a two dollar bill.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, Dorothea, you have older kids. Like I do. Like, kids are sponges, man. Like, even if, to your point, even if you don't sit down with them, they're watching you.

[Dorothea Kelly]

They are watching. And I did sit down because nobody sat me down and I didn't want, I didn't want them to live the way I did or start out the way I did, right? So I did sit my kids down. Now sometimes they listen, sometimes they didn't. My son, he really listens. He's. He holds on to a dollar. That's another thing I would like to say for parents. Just do the best you can. Sit down with them, teach them as they become adults. You will have to sometimes just, it's different relationship at that point, but you will have to sometimes say, okay, well, have you considered this? Have you considered that, you know, sometimes you've got to buy a book or two, you know, you, sometimes you got to pay for something to send them to. If you see that they're just going down a path that's reckless financially. So yes, I did sit down with my, they went with me when I went to Speaking engagements, all the things.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Jesse, is your. Is your daughter a year old yet?

[Jesse Kramer]

Yeah, she'll be 13 months here in a few days.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Unbelievable. Yeah, yeah, man, Time flies.

[Jesse Kramer]

Yeah, it does.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You being a money nerd like the rest of us, man, you must have already thought about this topic with your daughter.

[Jesse Kramer]

It was funny the other day. She got pretty nervous about compounding interest.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

She got nervous about compounding interest.

[Jesse Kramer]

She did. She's trying to time the market. She's trying to time the market. And no, as Dorothea was talking, I was thinking of the fact that as I think most kids do, this is something I've learned that I didn't know before. Like, most kids go through a stage where they. They like to throw food on the floor. It's just something about like a little bit of control. It just. It's fun. And so I'll sit there, I'll say, no, no. And she just gives me the biggest smile when I say no. So I'm prepared for the fact that there might be some hard conversations in our future, right, where she doesn't really want to listen to me. But no, it is this whole idea of railing the troops and getting your family behind you. So I was speaking this morning to a listener from Wisconsin. We. We had such an interesting conversation. There's a lot of outward signs of success, I would say, between her family, between her older in laws, as it were. You know, some. Some adults. Some. Some older adults in the family. This is her admission that the. Just the lack of communication and the lack of transparency in terms of money conversations, in terms of getting people on the same page, in terms of what do the parents want, what do the grandparents want, what do the grandkids want? It's causing a lot of friction there. And I just think it's one of those things where even, you know, it's possible to have the numbers looking great and still have a lot of discomfort in your financial situation simply because people aren't on the same page, because you're not talking about it. So I like this revolutionary idea of rallying the troops together.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I think, Steve, what Jesse's talking about goes back to lifestyle creep, man. When my kids were teenagers, lifestyle creep, they wanted a. They wanted lifestyle creep in their life. Like, hey, everybody else is doing the thing, so we should be able to do that too.

[Steve Stewart]

Well, it's also different for us now because there's so much more consumerism than there was when we were growing up. So the kids have more. I mean, there was no cell phones for kids back when we were in high school, there wasn't. There was a bag phone for the car. I think that was about it for us.

[Doug]

No, but you had to have that Atari 2600. And don't try to tell me you didn't, Steve.

[Steve Stewart]

Oh, you could read my mail, can't you, Doug? You wanted that.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah.

[Doug]

There's always been. No matter what your age. Yeah. They didn't have all the stuff we have now, but there were things we had to have.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

There was the thing.

[Steve Stewart]

Yes, but now with the kids having what feels to them as more independence, there's revolutionary word for you. More independence in their life that they can go out and they can buy all these different things. I mean, just look at the dollar stores and the malls and the. And the Walmarts and how many different things there are in there that you can choose from. We didn't have that type of selection back then. It's just. It's just compounded by 10x to infinity.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, I think to your point, Steve, we're just attacked by it more often. Right? The marketing is so much, so much more.

[Steve Stewart]

Absolutely.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. I don't even have time, Doug, to focus on the Atari 2600 because there's 800 other that I see. I mean, I think about today. I went into a bicycle shop to get my bike repaired. And I saw that there were these headphones, these bone induction headphones that you can wear when you run that don't have any cord. And you know, I always worry about like the AirPods that fall out. And immediately, you know what I did? I go, I want those immediately. I'm like, oh, my God, I need those. How much are they? Oh, they're only 150 bucks. And then I'm driving home like, what the hell am I doing? My headphones work just fine.

[Doug]

I don't exercise. What do I need these for?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And to prove it, I'm going to grab another donut on the way home.

[Doug]

Right?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It is. It is all over us. Let's do one a little bit geekier for our more advanced money nurse starting a tax revolt. Jesse, let's go to you. Most people ignore tax efficiency. My piece here says until it's too late. You see people that really need maybe a tax revolution in their life, even if they're money geek.

[Jesse Kramer]

I love this one. Especially just because so much of the American revolution was about taxes.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Right. Something that he going back to the.

[Doug]

T station is theft.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Okay.

[Jesse Kramer]

Do I see people who really need a tax revolution? Occasionally I'll see someone. So probably like the furthest out on the revolutionary scale that I'll see is someone who says it's like, well, yeah, I, I kind of wanted this new car. I was a little cash poor, so I did, I emptied out my, my 401k to go buy this car. And you're like, oh my gosh. You know, you just like they do something totally unaware of the tax impacts. So that's like pretty far out there. But something that I think is, is relatively revolutionary that even the average investor might not think about is that kind of these pre retirement and post retirement moves where we can do some sort of like quote unquote tax arbitrage or we can think about the tax rates we're paying now and the tax rates we might be paying in the future. And that ought to inform how we save money right now and then how we withdraw money in retirement. And it is like you said, Joe, like it's okay. Yeah, it's a little more of an advanced topic. It's not necessarily your personal finance 101 type topic, but those are the ways that we should be optimizing and saving dollars in the long run and letting more money compound because it makes a big difference. It makes a really big difference.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

How do you think about taxes, Dorothea, and your plan?

[Dorothea Kelly]

I agree 100% with Jesse. And I'm gonna tell you what. My, my tax accountant friends, they try to add on pieces of their business. That is tax planning. So helping people do exactly what Jesse is saying or, or planning for those capital gains or things like that. Do you know that is the hardest part of their business to build? People just want to go to their tax account to get their taxes done.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Which is funny because tax planning far, far bigger kaboom you can make than just putting the puzzle together later.

[Dorothea Kelly]

Exactly. And that is what they try to teach people. It's like you owed this year, so let's make sure you don't owe next year. Or you didn't expect this capital gains tax. Let's make. What are you planning to. What distributions do you plan for this year? How can we make sure you don't. Oh, that you can break even. Or if you do, oh, you are prepared to pay the tax. But people are. They just really want what they want right then and there. So I see that end of it for people who are not, who don't end up owing, but then the people who end up owing year after year after year after year. And it's just like, are you kidding me? Like we were having these same conversations every year. It is, it is really mind boggling that you would not make a plan. Especially, okay, first year. Okay, fine, year two. There's got to be a plan put in place so that you don't continue to owe.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I remember, I remember when I was younger, just my friends always comparing tax people against each other based on who got you the biggest refund or tax software based on which one got me the biggest refund, which emphasized just cheating on your taxes. Like how that's all you're doing is like, who's going to go further into the gray area for me to get a return I don't need. All of a sudden I have a business that I really don't have.

[Steve Stewart]

Joe, if you want to have a real revolution, what we should do is just pass the Fair Tax HR25. It'll wipe out like a quarter of our economy as far as all the complexities of financial tracking and advice and planning.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Steve, you have been an advocate of this for over 10 years.

[Steve Stewart]

Oh, my gosh. It's kind of like a vat tax with a little bit of a. What they call a prebate, which provides people a little bit of money to compensate for the things they spend money on that we have been. And it's just a sales tax. It's not going to be all this complicated tax return stuff. We don't have to worry about pre tax, post tax and withdrawal strategies as much. It's just going to be. It would be tremendous, but it would also be crazy to start.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Maybe you need to talk to Doug about that being part of the 2028 platform when Doug runs for president.

[Doug]

I'm on it. I'm all in.

[Steve Stewart]

I'm still a fan.

[Doug]

All right. Yes.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

There's the one. You don't have the 2024 up either.

[Steve Stewart]

I never got it. We were in the middle of a move, so.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That's right. You were. Yeah. The 2024 campaign where Doug came close to getting the 0.00001% that we were looking for. Let's look at just one more of these before we say goodbye. Storming the gates of financial literacy. I mean, all of us are in this camp, Jesse, but what's one creator who's not on this podcast today that you really like that you would point people to. To go, go listen to this person or read their book or watch their video? What's one creator we can nod at?

[Jesse Kramer]

Ooh, that's putting me on the spot. How do I pick just one? I'm looking over at my bookshelf right now for inspiration I know Warren Buffett's not a creator, but as far as, like, pearls of wisdom. Love Warren Buffett, but how about.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That's a good one.

[Jesse Kramer]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I think Warren Buffett does create content. I mean, those. You know, I don't think people go to the Berkshire Hathaway meeting to just hear what Berkshire Hathaway's done the last year. They're going there for pearls of wisdom.

[Dorothea Kelly]

Absolutely.

[Jesse Kramer]

So he also, coincidentally, was born in 1776. Full circle.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

May or may not be true. I also like the quote, don't believe everything you read on the Internet. Abraham Lincoln's famous quote that said that. Dorothea, who's one creator that we should be paying attention to.

[Dorothea Kelly]

You know what? It's so interesting that you asked me this today and I told you that I am becoming a Tik Tok, even more of a Tik Tok queen here. I have been following a gentleman by the name of money coach Vince, and he is killing Tik Tok and Instagram and his advice and everything he's giving is so good. He's built an amazing community, and I'm really enjoying following him now on. On social.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

On social media. We gotta try to get Vince on the show, too.

[Dorothea Kelly]

Oh, yeah, definitely. Definitely.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I love it when I find new creators. Steve, who's somebody else we should be paying attention to.

[Steve Stewart]

You know, they haven't put out a lot of new content in the financial space recently, but I think you can just go back and just absorb a whole bunch of great advice and it's comforting to listen to them. It's talent. And Ty McNeely from his and her money.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, yeah.

[Steve Stewart]

They're just doing good stuff all around, even if it's not current on YouTube. Just good people doing good stuff.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Evergreen advice.

[Steve Stewart]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I mean, yeah, Just the stuff they talked about was so evergreen. They're so inspirational the way that they sold so much of their stuff and gamified it. And also, by the way, two people on totally different money trajectories and learning to come together, you know, and be a team. Yep. Yeah. Good. Truly are one link to all those people. Doug, you got one, too?

[Doug]

Yeah. I think everybody should listen to the Neighbor Doug show. I mean, that's. I can't believe that didn't get.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Not on this channel. That was Doug's definition right there. If not, definitely not on this call.

[Steve Stewart]

Is season two coming? Is this breakthrough information? Breaking news.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, man. All right, that's going to do it for today. The good news is everybody who's part of the stacking Benjamin show today, all of our contributors, they've got great stuff going where they are. Dorothea, what's some of the goodness you're making on social media and how do people follow what you're up to?

[Dorothea Kelly]

Yes, please, please, please follow. I am Dorothea on TikTok. I am doing a lot there. TikTok, YouTube and Instagram are my main spots. You can find me talking all things personal finance and business coaching.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Just straight shooter and always love your advice. If anybody is incredibly blunt but has great Velvet on the Hammer, it's Dorothea Kelly. Like, just amazing. Super happy you were back with us, Jesse, what's going on at the Personal Finance for Long Term Investors podcast?

[Jesse Kramer]

Do you have any comments before I chime in there?

[Doug]

Joe? It is becoming my favorite name for any podcast. First of all, it's genius for search engine optimization, right? I mean, it's just, it says what it is. You're. You're like, well, I want to find a show that's a for personal finance. I'm a long term investor. Bam. It's in your face. But don't forget, it's also the pfly podcast. Oh, you look at the acronym. It's pfly.

[Jesse Kramer]

Pfly.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

How long did it take Doug to come up with that, Jesse? I mean, we've been doing.

[Jesse Kramer]

How long did that take you, Doug?

[Doug]

That was a matter of seconds over. Over some text that fun text that Jesse.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

After like six months. I mean, we've been trying to figure this out for six months. Helping Jesse come up with.

[Doug]

I'm doing some marketing consulting for him. We also came up with. What else do we come up with? The flit. Fault. Fault.

[Jesse Kramer]

Faulty.

[Doug]

Your fault. It's all your fault. That's what we came up with. Pflt.

[Jesse Kramer]

It was some great names, but I'll take P. Fly. Also, I just didn't want to go back because Velvet on the Hammer was my nickname in college. Joe, I don't know how you knew.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That, but what's going on, Dorothea? Great.

[Jesse Kramer]

That's a great nickname.

[Doug]

I was the Piston and I never understood that. I don't. I still don't get it.

[Jesse Kramer]

Oh, that is funny. What do we have going on over on the podcast? Well, we're coming off a great month of June, another Alzheimer of a month, and just recently released an ode to Warren Buffett. It's why he was on my mind. I did an episode all about some of Warren's best wisdom. And then later on in July, I think we have a special bonus episode. And I won't tell you why it's special. And then Peter Lazaroff is joining us soon too. And if you don't know Peter, he's a phenomenal voice in the investing world and well worth looking into.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

We're good friends with Peter and that's another guy that we need to have back on. Like Dorothea. We just don't get to talk to Peter enough. Steve, thank you. So it's so good to have you on this side of the microphone instead of the other side.

[Steve Stewart]

We never talk.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I know, right? There's a lot of creators that listen to the show and a lot of the time they are either looking for good editing help or they are thinking about maybe getting into editing. And you A, help people figure out how to edit their stuff, but B, you also counsel people that are doing the thing that you do.

[Steve Stewart]

Yeah, I've got a community podcast editors club on Facebook. That's where we all just hang out and talk about the post production stuff of podcasting, all about the editing and how we serve our clients. And I have the Podcast editor [e-mail] where I teach people how to become podcast editors by trade. And for people who are listening who aren't interested in any of that stuff but are looking for someone, I can connect you with editors because I've got this great community, like I said. So if they're looking for somebody, I've got a great way to get them in front of hundreds of people without actually walking into a room and raising your hand saying, hey, I'm looking for an editor. You don't want to do that, so come see me at stevestewart me for that.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And we'll link to Dorothea's work, Jesse's work, and Steve's work in our show. Notes Doug. I wish Steve was a giver. If Steve was a little bit of a giver, Doug, I think he'd be like the perfect human.

[Doug]

Yeah, he just doesn't ever stop thinking about Steve though. I mean, it's just, it's really hard when you're as self focused as he is.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I don't know how many more selfless individuals there are than the amazing Steve Stewart. All right, that's going to do it for today. Doug. Bring it home for us, man. What should we have learned on today's show?

[Doug]

Well, Joe, here's what's stacked up on our to do list for today. First, take some advice from Dorothea. If you're lonely and bored, just stop paying your bills. You'll have people calling you non stop. They'll play great practical jokes like Moving your car on you in the middle of the night. Sometimes they'll even come over and just knock on your front door. It's a great way to get some friends. Second, don't forget what Steve Stewart recommended. One way to ensure success is to draw a picture of what you want your future to look like. I've seen his self portrait and it looks surprisingly like Scrooge McDuck swimming in gold coins. But the big lesson, don't try to change Joe's mom's ringtone to Yankee Doodle. Or she'll change your ringtone to something like this.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, my God, I forgot to pull it up.

[Doug]

Dude, you had one job.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Hold on, Steve. We're going to fix this in post.

[Steve Stewart]

Does Doug get to start over again?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

This is truly how the side. Yeah, that's right. We're going to take it from the top, everybody. All right, here we go.

[Doug]

That was disappointing.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That's good, but you got to wait for it.

[Doug]

Can we roll with the credits?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

What the hell?

[Doug]

Oh, what the hell? Thanks to Dorothea Kelly for joining us today. You'll find Dorothea's book hashtag moneychat and links to her coaching, speaking and more@dorothea kelly.com.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Don'T forget to follow her on social.

[Doug]

We'll do that too. Yeah, do all of the things. We'll also include links in our show notes@stacking benjamin's.com. thanks to Steve Stewart for hanging out with us today. You'll find Steve not only behind the scenes here, but also coaching others on how to edit podcasts. You can find Steven Steve Stewart, me. See, there's that self. He's so self focused. It's all about me, me, me. It's a perfect domain for Steve Stewart. Thanks also to the Jesse Kramer for joining us today. You'll find his podcast Personal Finance for long term investors. As you know, I like to call it the Pfly. Wherever you find the finest podcasts. This show is the property of SB Podcasts & LLC, Copyright 2025 and is created by Joe Saul Sehive. Joe gets help from a few of our neighborhood friends. You'll find out about our awesome [e-mail] along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello. Oh yeah. And before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don't take advice from from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And we'll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Foreign welcome to the after show. This is the part of the show that doesn't exist. What happens in the after show stays in the after show. It is Independence Day in America. And that means that. Well, there are. There's some hilarious stuff that comedians, Doug, have done on social media. I think about every year we've played that awesome Stephen Marchant piece about if the United States was still under British rule. But let's focus on this one now. This is a shortened clip of comedian Nate Brazzi on Saturday Live. I shortened it just to take out this. You're going to hear some cuts. They took out the laughter parts, but I think everybody will understand where this is headed.

[Jesse Kramer]

Is there any chance we will win this war? Of course, I am fearful as well. But we will live through the battle ahead because we fight to control our own destiny, to create our own nation and to do our own thing with the English language. One day, our great nation will have a word for the number 12. We shall call it a dozen. And what other numbers will we have a word for? None. Only 12 shall have its own word because we are free men. And we will be free to spell some words two different ways.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Which word, sir?

[Jesse Kramer]

Donut. And the name Jeff.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

What are the two ways to spell Jeff, sir?

[Jesse Kramer]

The short way with a J and the stupid way with a G.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

So many inconsistencies. It made me wonder, are there any financial inconsistencies that you guys can think of? Like if. If George Washington is going across the Delaware and Dorothea, you were telling us about the future. What's One thing in 2025 that people in 1776 might not have understood?

[Dorothea Kelly]

I think it's the fact that you can literally bankrupt your way out of gambling debt, but not your student loans. Like, why not?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

So we just need to gamble more, apparently.

[Dorothea Kelly]

Pay off our student loans, clearly.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Why is that, Jesse? Why can we just get out of gambling debt but not student loans?

[Jesse Kramer]

Why is it. I mean, isn't that part of the. The legislation around student loans themselves? I mean, is that. Is that what you're asking, Joe? Or are you. Are you looking for a logical answer? Because I'm not sure there really is.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Going to say the Naper Gatsby. Nobody knows.

[Jesse Kramer]

Oh.

[Dorothea Kelly]

Jesse is ready. Okay. Jesse has the answers. Do you understand the legislation says that's right.

[Jesse Kramer]

I don't really. I'm not really one for jokes.

[Doug]

The assignment is to be funny.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I Think it's just the way the rules work, Joe. Yeah.

[Jesse Kramer]

Are you serious?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Set up the rule that way. That is strange. All right, Steve, you're George Washington going across the Delaware. What's a financial inconsistency that people might see in the future?

[Steve Stewart]

I was reminded from the video intro that you have at the beginning of the live streams here, Joe. John Hope Bryant says credit is money. That's the misconception that credit is money.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. Wait, we. We're going to refer to this as our money, and yet it's not our money.

[Steve Stewart]

Right.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Speaking of credit, one of my favorite ones is just the credit score. Like, we're going to judge people on a scale. Oh, what's that scale going to be? 1 to 10? Oh, no, no, no, no, no. It's going to be between 300 and 850.

[Steve Stewart]

Yeah, right.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Why is that? I don't know.

[Dorothea Kelly]

Right.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Do it differently.

[Dorothea Kelly]

We just made this up.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. Not even one to 100.

[Doug]

And when you're debt free, your score will go down.

[Steve Stewart]

Yep.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Absolutely.

[Steve Stewart]

That's another consistency right there. If you're good with money and you don't borrow any, you're credit worthy. Except that they can't tell because you have nothing to base that history on.

[Dorothea Kelly]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. Why does that happen, Jesse? Why does that happen?

[Jesse Kramer]

Nobody knows.

[Dorothea Kelly]

There you go. Like, let's go. We gotta. We gotta shoot. Jesse. The little cheat note.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I guess so. All right, Jesse, you're up, man. What's another financial inconsistency George Washington and company might have foreseen?

[Jesse Kramer]

The one that I thought of is that, you know, we're going to have a certain cohort of laborers who aren't going to be paid by their employers, but instead their employers are going to be allowed to underpay them so that customers can make up the difference. And I'm talking about tipping. I know this sounds a lot like the. The opening scene of. What's that one? Terror. Is it for Reservoir Dogs? I think that Tarantino movie.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Jesse Kramer]

Where Steve Buscemi's character, Mr. Pink, whoever doesn't want to tip so good. But yes, tipping, I get it. And I do tip. And I. I try to tip well because I understand these people are working for tips, but, man, I do not.

[Dorothea Kelly]

Understand tipping culture in America, because in Paris, In Paris in France, they pay their people well and they don't. They don't look for your tip.

[Jesse Kramer]

That's right.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

We were in Greece and they said that you can tip, but they also were sure to let you know that people there get paid a living wage.

[Dorothea Kelly]

Yes. Same thing in Paris told us the same thing. Yep.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. All right, Doug, you got the last one. What's another George Washington? Financial inconsistency.

[Doug]

You know, I guess. I mean, this just happened to me not too long ago. So it occurred to me that nickels are worthless. I mean, sure, like you want to buy a gumball, they'll take them. But try to pay your car payment with nickels, suddenly they're worthless. Nobody wants them.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And why is that, Jesse?

[Jesse Kramer]

Nobody knows.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

There you go.