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The Stacking Benjamins Show
Morgan Housel: Why You Spend Money (And How to Do It Better) SB1769
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- [00:00]
Joe Saul Sehive
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- [00:52]
Kevin Harlan
Friday, the NBA on Prime Crew and I are back with another spectacular NBA on Prime doubleheader. It a legendary rivalry as Luka Doncic and the Lakers take on Jaylen Brown and the Boston Celtics. Then Cooper Flagg and the Mavs meet SGA and the Thunder. If you're not a Prime member, just sign up for a free 30 day trial. Lakers, Celtics, Mavs, Thunder coverage starts Friday at 6:30pm Eastern only on Prime. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com Amazon prime for details.
- [01:28]
Doug
Ignition sequence start. 65-4-3210.
- [01:37]
Morgan Housel
All engine running.
- [01:39]
OG
Liftoff.
- [01:45]
Doug
Live from Joe's mom's basement, it's the Stacking Benjamin Show.
- [01:55]
Joe Saul Sehive
Foreign.
- [02:00]
Doug
Doug and how's your spending plan in the spendiest month of the year? Today we welcome a mentor who's gonna teach you the art of spending money. Morgan Housel. In our headline segment, Warren Buffett said peace out homies as he cleaned out his leftovers from the break room fridge at Berkshire Hathaway. That's right, it's Warren's last month at the helm. What lessons can we glean from this historic transfer away from the world's greatest investor? We'll share. And of course, I think this is a great time to reminisce about someone Santa thinks is naughty having a birthday. And now two guys who are hanging the investment stockings with care. It's Joe. Oh and oh, J.J. juja jeans.
- [02:48]
Joe Saul Sehive
Hey Stackers. Happy Wednesday. And yeah, I can't believe it. OG We've never had Morgan Housel on the show until today.
- [02:56]
OG
Like Christmas in December.
- [02:57]
Joe Saul Sehive
It is crazy. It's amazing. If you're not familiar with Morgan Housel's work, buckle up buttercup, because Morgan always has phenomenal stuff to say. That cuts right to the Chase. He does.
- [03:14]
OG
Gotta use the lingo.
- [03:15]
Joe Saul Sehive
Yes. All the kids are using it. Speaking of that voice. And I just said, hey, OG People might not know who he is. If you're new to the show, my partner in crime on this podcast, the one, the only, the OG how are you this fine Wednesday, my friend?
- [03:31]
OG
Living the dream, man. Dancing in my office, feeling the flow.
- [03:37]
Joe Saul Sehive
I can't believe how warm it is this late in the year down here in Texarkana. It just, it's great.
- [03:43]
OG
Perfect golf weather.
- [03:46]
Joe Saul Sehive
I know wearing shorts at this time of year, just so strange why I moved here. This is, it is so wild.
- [03:54]
Doug
Meanwhile, I got the space heater on my side of the card table just blasting heat up from underneath the desk right into my face. So it's weird how different the weather patterns are in the basement.
- [04:04]
OG
The old man wants his afghan and his house shoes.
- [04:09]
Joe Saul Sehive
It's only 87 degrees.
- [04:11]
Doug
I'm absolutely wearing house shoes right now.
- [04:16]
Joe Saul Sehive
Morgan Housel Coming up next, he is going to help you practice the art of thinking about how you spend your money. Morgan, of course, is not only a best selling author, he's a guy who has been the last several years one of the prime voices in the personal finance community. You're going to hear Morgan today. Before we say hello to Morgan for the first time on Stacking Benjamin's we also have a few sponsors who make sure that we can keep on keeping on and all the Morgan Housel goodness, you don't have to pay for any of that. So we're going to hear from them. And then the Morgan Housel coming down to talk about the artist spending. This message is sponsored by Navy Federal Credit Union. As the holiday season rolls around, we know that you strive to do everything you can to bring cheer and joy to your loved ones. And as a credit union dedicated to serving all veterans, active duty and their families to we understand that every little bit counts. That's why for a limited time, you could earn a $250 cash bonus when you spend $2,500 with Navy Federal's cash rewards and cash rewards plus cards in the first 90 days, of course, Stackers. This is part of a big financial plan, right? Don't get yourself into debt. Make sure that you are spending and saving with a plan. But you know what? The giving doesn't stop there. You could also earn up to 2% unlimited CA with these cards. So saving up for whatever the season brings just got a little easier. Give joy. Get joy. Join now@navy federal.org Navy Federal Credit Union Our Members are the mission. Navy Federal is insured by NCUA. Visit Navy federal.org cashrewards for details. Cash back terms and conditions apply. Offer ends January 1, 2026. It's time for Cyber Monday. Dell Technologies biggest sale of the year. Enjoy the lowest prices of the year on select PCs. Dell 16 + featuring Intel Core Ultra processors and with built in advanced features, it's the PC that helps you do more, faster plus earn Dell rewards and enjoy many other benefits like free shipping, price match guarantee and expert support. They also have huge deals on accessories that pair perfectly with your Dell PC and make perfect gifts for everyone on your list. Shop now@dell.com deals. I'm super happy this gentleman is coming down the stairs to Mom's basement. It's Morgan Housel how are you man?
- [07:00]
Morgan Housel
I'm doing well. Thanks for having me. Good to see you.
- [07:02]
Joe Saul Sehive
Well, good to see you. And you're a guy who I've read and seen so much I feel like I know you. It's one of these parasocial relationships, Morgan, that we often have with our stackers. But I know enough about you and your work that you choose words very carefully. And you called the book your new project, the Art of Spending Money. It's not the science of spending money. It's not the strategy, but the art. Why that word? Why is that word so important?
- [07:30]
Morgan Housel
Well, I think there's two ways to think about this. One is, I easily could have called it the Psychology of Spending Money. It's not the strategy of spending money. It's not a lecture on how to spend money. It's what is going through your head when you are thinking about these topics. The psychology of envy, the psychology of greed, the psychology of contentment and happiness is really what this book is about. I don't think there is a science of spending money because in a science there really has to be kind of a formula that works for me and you at the same time. And the truth is we are different people and everyone is different from one another. Different generations, different cultures, different risk tolerances, different family situations, different emotional scars that we all bring with us from the past that shape our current desires and our current goals and whatnot. And so the idea that it is an art and not a science. I think this is a very imperfect analogy. But the best analogy that I can think of of what it is like is your taste in food. There is no science of the taste in food. You might like Mexican food, and I might say no, Italian is much better. I absolutely despise seafood. Anything that's been submerged in water will not go down, will not go down my throat. And I wouldn't be surprised if you and most people listening to this thing, that's crazy. But the truth is like we're all different. We're all very different. There's no science to this. Whatever works for you is what's going to work for you. And I think the idea of not just how we spend, but actually how we earn and save and invest our money fall into that category as well. It's not a science, it's an art.
- [08:52]
Joe Saul Sehive
Which means it makes it hard to create a set of rules. I mean, they're truly then by definition then, Morgan, I think there'd be no, no rules to follow as much as there's kind of guidelines and markers and maybe a rainbow at the end of the horizon we're looking at.
- [09:06]
Morgan Housel
Yeah, I think that that tends to be true. And now look, there are some rules of being reasonable within it. If you are investing, you need to understand the math behind compounding. You need to understand the risk of debt and liquidation. Those are universal between you and I. But the idea of the psychology of your risk tolerance, you know, that's going to be different from person to person. And so there are these guide posts that are universal that you need to understand. And that's where financial education really comes into play and that kind of thing. But the idea that we are all different creatures within those guidelines is one of the most overlooked parts of finance, I think.
- [09:42]
Joe Saul Sehive
I'm so glad you're here in December, maybe the spendiest month of the year. Right. So it's a good time to get a little philosophical about this. You write that you worked as a valet at a high end hotel. I'm just, I'm very curious about that. Was that a good time? Did you like your time as a valet?
- [09:57]
Morgan Housel
Oh my gosh. I cannot exaggerate the extent to which that was the coolest job a 19 year old could have. I was a valet for all four years during college at a five star hotel in Los Angeles. And this was kind of just before the housing bubble burst in 2007, 2008. And so there was so much fake money flowing around Los Angeles, which is already a fake city to begin with in terms of its material aspirations and showing off whatnot. And so you take the fake performative culture of Los Angeles and then you dump a trillion dollars of subprime money onto this. It was a crazy time. So as a 19 year old, I was driving all these Ferraris and Bentleys and rolls Royces. That's 90% of which I'm sure were just the least. And you know, we're doing it in 80 degrees, sunny weather. It was the coolest job ever. And this is where I truly learned about so much of this stuff. I got to observe in a very fine magnifying glass the psychology of rich people. Or, and not just rich people, but like performative rich people who were taking their dates out to dinner at this hotel and, you know, trying to show off their car in the front of the area. And so I feel like I learned so much about it back then because in my little 19 year old pea brain, I had these aspirations to be a rich person one day too. And in my naive thinking, I just kind of thought like, oh, one day I'll have a Ferrari and therefore I'll be happy. All my problems will go away, everything will be great, everybody will love me. That was the very naive leap that I took. And looking at so many of these people, not just some, but I would venture to say most, if not nearly all, they were not as happy or as successful as I thought they would be. Some of them would come in in a $300,000 Lamborghini, and you got to know these people and you're like, he's actually not that successful. He just spends half of his. His income on a Lamborghini lease payment. You know, there were so many of those elements that I got to see during those years that I learned a lot from.
- [11:49]
Joe Saul Sehive
It's interesting, I'm wondering, was there a correlation? Like the more performative the car was, the more, you know, if it's the bright red, shiny Ferrari and the guy is immaculately dressed, he seemed to be less happy and less successful than the person that shows up. And maybe a nice Buick. Or was there just no correlation at all? Like the Ferrari did not say anything to you about the person's general level of happiness in your short interaction with them?
- [12:16]
Morgan Housel
I think people in flashy cars tend to separate into two groups. One is the car driver who wants to be seen. And the reason they own the Ferrari is because they want to turn heads and they want to show off in front of strangers. That's one group. The second group is the one who truly loves the craft and the engineering of this beautiful machine, and they own it for the art. I think the litmus test is saying, if you lived on a deserted island and nobody could see you, nobody could see your cars, your house, your clothes, how would you choose to live? If nobody could see your. Your Cars that you were driving, the people who own the cars for the craft and the engineering and the beauty of it would still drive it and still love it. And they just loved, like polishing them in their garage every Sunday morning, that kind of thing. And then. So I am not anti spending in the slightest. And I love nice stuff. I love nice homes, I love nice cars. I love all of it. I like spending money on nice things full stop. But you need to make sure you're owning it for the right reason. And it tends to be one of those two groups. Are you doing it because you truly love and enjoy this thing, whatever it might be, or because you think usually in a fooling yourself way, that you are fostering and instilling some kind of admiration from strangers?
- [13:24]
Joe Saul Sehive
It's funny though, how addictive that admiration from strangers at first, maybe not addictive, but seductive it can be. I grew up in an auto family, but I've never been a car person. Morgan. But my roommate in college was really into Corvettes. And I was like, what a waste of time and what a waste of money. And then I wrote in his Corvette. And then everybody, everybody was looking at me all the time. Like, even people that didn't care like me would glance at the person driving by because it was a cool car. It's very, very seductive.
- [13:54]
Morgan Housel
But I would challenge you, though, that they were not actually looking at you. They were looking at the car and imagining themselves being in your position.
- [14:03]
Joe Saul Sehive
Good point.
- [14:03]
Morgan Housel
That's a very different thing. They weren't saying, wow, look at Joe, Joe. So he's. He's so great. What they did is they said if I was sitting in Joe's seat, people would be looking at me. Even when people are paying attention to your car, your clothes, your house, 90% of the time they're not actually paying attention to you. They are imagining themselves having that thing and dreaming about the attention that others would therefore give to them.
- [14:25]
Joe Saul Sehive
You write that in this project about Ben Franklin saying something to that extent that people are envious of you. And if you can be a. I'm not going to get the words right because I don't have it right in front of me. But if you can be. I don't know what the phrase is like by people or honored by people without them feeling envious, that is truly a great place to be.
- [14:46]
Morgan Housel
Yeah, it's very easy to mistake envy for admiration. Let's say you are in a position where people are like, wow, look at, look at that house. Look at those clothes. You're doing well. For yourself. It's easy to think they admire you for it, but very often what they do is they envy you for it. And envy is not something you. You want to go through life minimizing the amount of people who are envious of you. I'll give you one other valet story from the period of time. One of the actually richest people that came into the hotel all the time. He was a regular there, was a very successful clothing entrepreneur I know because it was a public company, that he was worth hundreds of millions of dollars, hundreds of millions of dollars at the time. And he drove a modest Toyota pickup truck at the time. I loved that this was actually one of the most successful people. He was not one of the people faking it with a lease payment. This guy was actually filthy rich. But I think he was so confident in himself and so confident in who he was and gained his admiration from his entrepreneurial abilities, from his kindness. He was the nicest, friendliest guy you could ever possibly meet. And that's what I admired him for. I think my initial knee jerk reaction at the time was, dude, you have so much money. What are you driving this old pickup truck for?
- [15:56]
Joe Saul Sehive
What.
- [15:57]
Morgan Housel
What is going on here? And as I gained a little bit more maturity now, I'm granted, I'm like 21 at this point. Let's say I kind of realized, like, I actually like you the best. I actually like you more than any of these people because I think part of the reason was the people in the Rolls Royces and the Bentley. I probably did envy them. Now, that's not a brag. That's a character flaw of mine. But I think I did envy them. I think it was, oh, you think you're better than me? Like, I don't think you're better than me. You think you're better than my dad? I don't think you're better than my dad. And it was a sense of envy. But this other entrepreneur who drove the pickup who was actually so successful, I was like, it's the opposite of envy. I'm like, I love this guy. He is so great. I have so much genuine admiration for him. I think usually envy happens not when somebody has nicer things than you or more money than you. It's when they have nicer things or more money. And rightly or wrongly, you tell yourself they didn't deserve it. You think you're working harder than me. I'm working hard, too, but I can't afford that. That's where envy comes from. It's this feeling of unearned inferiority that you have towards others.
- [16:56]
Joe Saul Sehive
You wrote something else that really hit me, which was never make fun of how someone mispronounces a word because they learned it from reading. You had read that somewhere. But the corollary that you bring up then is never make fun of how someone spends money because they learned it from living. Can you unpack that? Because I think a lot of our stackers, you know, we all judge ourselves kind of harshly sometimes around the way we spend money.
- [17:19]
Morgan Housel
Yeah, I think it's true that the way that you spend your money and save your money and invest your money tends to be a reflection of some deeply rooted personality characteristics that you have. Maybe there are scars from earlier in your life, scars where you're trying to. That you're trying to make up for. Scars that gave you a very high or very low risk tolerance, whatever it might be, you learned it from living. I think that that tends to be the case. Now, that's not to say that people can't make terrible decisions. It's not to say that people should not be told they're making terrible decisions that they're going to regret. But when they are making those decisions of, here's how much money I'm going to spend, here's how much money I'm going to save, or the lack thereof, it makes sense to them in that moment. It's checking the boxes that they need in that moment. I think that tends to be the case that it's very common to look at somebody who is spending money differently than you are, or saving or investing differently than you are. They're either spending and saving way more or way less than you. And look at that and say, you're doing it wrong, I'm doing it right, you're doing it wrong. You're not spending enough, you're too frugal, you're not saving enough, whatever it might be. And I think a lot of where those feelings come from is that when you see people doing it differently than you, you can interpret that as a threat to your own decision making. Because if you're saving half your income and you see someone living to paycheck to paycheck, when you look at them and say you're doing it wrong, I think it's not uncommon that actually what you're feeling is like, maybe I'm doing it wrong. Maybe they're living a great life that I'm missing out on. And you can respond to that with a lot of criticism and cynicism. And so, look, I know a lot of people make very bad financial decisions that they will end up regretting. And I think I have a pretty good radar at spotting those. But I still have to remind myself that that person is not me. And maybe in their mind, at that moment, it's the right thing for them to do, even if it would be the wrong thing for myself to do. I'll tell you a very quick little story here. It was actually before I was a valet. My very first job, I think I was 17, I was working at a ski resort in Lake Tahoe. And I had a coworker, he was probably 25, maybe 28, something like that. And he had $25,000 of credit card debt that he had racked up from going on these ski trips around the world. He had skied in France and Italy and Antarctica, and he had been everywhere on these, like, exotic ski trips, $25,000 in credit card debt. And I gave him so much grief and for how stupid, how much of an imbecile he was for having all this debt. And on a daily basis, I would criticize him and ridicule him. The tragic punchline here is about a decade later, so let's say he's maybe mid-30s, he died in a ski accident. I remember how quickly my feelings shifted towards I'm so glad he took those ski trips while he could. I'm so glad he got to live this amazing life, did it. And now the takeaway is not that you and I should have a YOLO mentality and live like we're going to die tomorrow, because hopefully we're not going to. But I think it's never as simple as live for today or save for tomorrow. The only thing you should think about is what are you going to regret at some point in the future? And trying to minimize the number of regrets that you have. I think about that a lot because I've been a big saver since I was earned my first dollar when I was 17 at that ski resort. I've been a huge saver ever since. And I think a lot about the balance between I hope I live for another 50 years and B, I might not. You might not. Nobody knows what this. So how do you balance regrets in a morbid kind of idea of if you are on your deathbed tomorrow, looking back at your life, what would you regret? And a good philosophy foundation for life is trying to minimize those numbers of regrets to bring that back to the point that you started with. Yeah, when you see somebody spending more or less money than you, it actually might be Wrong for you, but make perfect sense in their head at that moment.
- [20:58]
Joe Saul Sehive
It strikes me as you're telling that story, you know, there's a lot of consternation in 2025 around the bill Bangin new book and the idea that the 4% rule, it doesn't roll off the tongue anymore, Morgan, like it used to. The 5.25% rule. Whatever. Whatever it's going to be. As I'm looking through your book and I'm reading your book and I'm contemplating your words, this idea of even starting with the 4% rule or the 5% rule might be a mistake. That if we begin with happiness and then see if that lodges inside a 4% or 5% of whatever we've done might be a better, better way to even attack how we think about spending money during our retirement or our fire years.
- [21:45]
Morgan Housel
Yeah. I do think there's something to be said that a lot of people will view those rules as guardrails around their happiness, that I want to spend as much money as I possibly can out of these assets. So it'd be great if it's 4%, but if you tell me it's 5%, that's going to be so much better because I'm going to be able to live a much better life.
- [22:00]
Joe Saul Sehive
Yeah, right.
- [22:00]
Morgan Housel
I think there's some extent that can be true. Everybody can spend more money in a way that's going to give them a better life. I think that tends to be universal. And if you can't, that's a, that's a personal flaw. You just haven't figured out how to do it yet.
- [22:11]
Joe Saul Sehive
I do think there's.
- [22:12]
Morgan Housel
Right, but. Yeah, exactly. But I do think there is something to be said that if you view your entire happiness as being constrained by how much money you're spending, that's a flaw as well. My late grandmother in law, for 30 years, she lived off of nothing but 1800 bucks a month in Social Security. Nothing else. She had no assets, no pension, just 1800 bucks a month, nothing else. Happiest woman you will ever meet. Totally content, totally happy. Playing in her garden and going for walks and like bird watching. She always had a smile on her face. She's always laughing, she's always telling jokes. The takeaway there is not like, oh, you should do that too. But to me, the takeaway was, it's absolutely possible to live an amazing life on very little money. It is within your control. And the idea that wealth is what you have minus what you want, it's what you have, minus what you want and she had nothing and she wanted nothing else. And so that equation penciled out perfectly. There are also so many people that make $10 million a year, but they want 11. And those people are deficit in what they have. They wake up every morning feeling inadequate. And so I think there's no level to that. Everybody can spend more money in a way that's going to give them a better life. But if you start out with I can only have a good life if I can spend more money, that my happiness is constrained by how much money that I can spend, that's a problem as well.
- [23:28]
Joe Saul Sehive
Did you look into the research that a lot of people say is is outdated? That you know there's a certain amount of money that you can spend up to that makes you happy and then there's no happiness after that number? I know that's outdated. Have you seen any newer research on that?
- [23:43]
Morgan Housel
Yeah, there's a study that I think kind of solves a lot of this problem of the decades long debate of does money bring happiness? Some studies would show late yes. Some studies would show no. I think some of the nuance behind it that's very important are the studies that say and show that if you are already a depressed, miserable, despondent, anxious person, earning more money is not going to do very much for you. Even earning lots of more money is not going to do much for you. But if you are already a happy, joyful, funny, content person, then earning more money will give you a much better life. It's like earning more or less money is just leverage in either direction for who you already were. And so a lot of that is it's too easy for us to assume that the solution for our anxiety and worry and self doubt is more money. It's too easy that if you wake up every morning feeling like there's a little bit of a hole in your life, it's too easy to tell yourself you if only I had more money then my problems would go away. That's what a lot of the research on that area would show is that yes, there are studies that show people who earn more money are happier, but that's not necessarily causation. There's a correlation there for people who are already pretty content and happy with their life. My late grandmother in law on 1800 bucks a month, if she won the lottery, I think she would have been the happiest person to ever exist. Happiest person who had ever lived. But without naming names, we know some world famous billionaires who if you dig into their Life are not happy people. Elon Musk talked about this in an interview a couple years ago. He said, you might think you want to be me, as in the richest man in the world. But he pointed to his temple and he said, it's a storm up here. It's a mess up here. Like, you do not want to be inside this head. And so I think it's too easy for us to assume that there is such a strong correlation between net worth and happiness, even if at the actual level, like, it's much more uncertain than that.
- [25:33]
Joe Saul Sehive
It's funny taking Elon Musk or even the people whose cars would show up when you were a valet, Morgan, and countering that to your grandmother. It makes me think of another great line that you found from somebody that's in your book, which was about, you know, when you're showing off your house to somebody, show them the inside versus showing them the outside. The inside of your house being who you are. So if you start with being a. Trying to be a happier person versus more money, this is much more of a great place to start, I think, than starting with me trying to impress you.
- [26:05]
Morgan Housel
And the inside of your house is showing off for the people that you let into your house, which is going to be your friends, your family, you know, the people who you actually. The outside of your house. And we're just using this as a broad idea. The outside of your house is showing off to strangers who are going to drive past it and say, wow, I wonder who lives there. And so I think that's a pretty powerful idea. I desperately want and need the love and attention and admiration from about six people. My wife, my kids, my parents, one or two of my friends, and that's pretty much it. The people who come into my house, I want them to be proud of me, and I want to use my money to spend quality time with them. Absolutely. Like, almost in a desperate way. But outside of those six people, it drops off very dramatically. And the vast majority of people who are strangers, I couldn't care less. And the reason I couldn't care less is because they're not paying any attention to me to begin with. There's a great phrase from the comic Jimmy Carr where he says, in your 20s, people worry about what other people think of you. In your 30s, you say, I don't care what anybody thinks of me. And in your 40s, you finally realize the truth, which was that nobody was thinking about you to begin with. There's a lot of truth to that, that the vast majority of people are just not paying any attention to you whatsoever. So make sure that if you are trying to use money to impress people, you're doing it for the very small number of people in your life whose love and attention and admiration you actually desire.
- [27:26]
Joe Saul Sehive
I love Jimmy Carr, and it just.
- [27:28]
Morgan Housel
Oh, he's so good.
- [27:29]
Joe Saul Sehive
I was talking to a friend of mine about this earlier this week, so it's funny you bring him up. When did this dude become such a philosopher? Because I feel like in the last couple years, he went from just being a comedian to a guy who's just. His life philosophy speaks so much to me.
- [27:43]
Morgan Housel
Well, I think that's true for the vast majority of comedians. There's a really good podcast called Blocks with Neal Brennan. He's also a famous comedian. He mostly has other comedians on. And what's great about it is it's almost like an unspoken rule that, like, hey, Jimmy Carr or Chris Rock, whoever's on the show, let's not be funny for the next hour. Let's talk philosophically about life. And what you see in there is that the best comedians in the world are absolutely brilliant philosophers. I think there's no exception to that. George Carlin was a brilliant philosopher. Chris Rock is a brilliant philosopher. Jerry Seinfeld, they're all brilliant philosophers. They spend their day thinking about life and the quirks of psychology, and then they deliver that in the best, funniest, most entertaining way possible.
- [28:25]
Joe Saul Sehive
I think about George Carlin, you know, going back to something you and I were talking about earlier, and you actually include this in your new book. But it's a line that I've loved for a long time, which is, anybody driving faster than you is a maniac. Anybody driving slower. And we're always comparing ourselves to what other people are doing. I want to make sure we cover this before we say goodbye. You outline these six principles very early, I think maybe even in the introduction to this project. But let me focus on a few that really resonate. You say there's two ways to use money. Money's a tool you can use, but if you're not careful, it will use you. Can you unpack that for us? Because I felt like when you wrote that, like a bomb dropped in my lap.
- [29:05]
Morgan Housel
Yeah, I think it's not uncommon. It's actually extremely common that money is not a tool that you are using. It is something that hijacked your personality, and it's controlling your desires, it's controlling your ambitions, it's controlling where you live, how you live, who you socialize with. It's like the puppet master controlling your life. I think that is a very common place to be in. And the people who I think use money most effectively are ones who reject that. And they're like, I'm just going to be me. I'm who I am, and I'm going to use money as a tool to leverage who I am, but it's never going to define who I am.
- [29:40]
Joe Saul Sehive
And then the second is, of course, we've been talking a lot about this, but you say enduring happiness is found in contentment. So the happiest people with money are those who found a way to stop thinking about it. Your badass grandma, it sounds like, found a way to just stop thinking about money. Morgan.
- [29:55]
Morgan Housel
Yeah, I don't think she thought about it any more than you and I would think about air. If that air is the most important thing in the world, you don't think about it ever. And, you know, that's actually an interesting analogy because there are so many tech bros these days who want to maximize their breathing, and so they, like, put tape over their mouth at night and whatnot. And so those people are like, they're so unsatisfied with the air that is coming in and out of their body, they want to maximize it more. What a miserable, miserable way to live. Just be happy. There's plenty of air. You don't need to maximize it. Just. Just shut up and breathe. You can do it. And so I think. I think that exists for money as well. The people who are constantly thinking about it and trying to maximize it are generally not the people who are the most content, the most happy with what they have. It's the people who are just like, oh, there's plenty of it. And I. When. When I need it, I use it for things I love. But. But other than that, I spend my time thinking about my friends and my family and the sunset and the beautiful plants outside. Like, the things that actually make you happy. And money is there when you need it, but it's not a constant, ever present thing.
- [30:52]
Joe Saul Sehive
I take everything that we've talked about in the last 25 minutes, and I also think about just you and I as people, as money geeks, our stackers, as money geeks. Right? We're people who like to think about money. But it seems to me that based on everything we've talked about, then, so I'm like, so where's my win here? If I like talking about money, but it's not chasing money, what am I chasing, Morgan? Am I chasing systems? Maybe I'm trying to Set up better systems by listening to Stacky Benjamin's or by listening to Morgan Housel so that I can think about it less and just do it more efficiently.
- [31:24]
Morgan Housel
Well, I'll give you two that are important to me. What I want out of money more than anything else is pretty much the only thing I want out of money is independence. I just want to live life on my terms, my way, not under anyone else's system, not chasing anyone else's goals. I want to be independent. That's the first thing. The second thing that I love out of money is I think money and finance and investing is a fascinating window into how people think and how people behave. You can learn so much about psychology and behavior and competition and sociology by studying money across culture, how I spend, how you spend, other people's ambitions and their aspirations. You can learn so much about people by studying money. Yes. You can also learn about people by studying religion and politics and sports, like all these other things. But money is like a shockingly clear window into people's psyches that I think is fascinating.
- [32:15]
Joe Saul Sehive
I do too.
- [32:16]
Morgan Housel
That's my fascination with this topic. I want to be independent and I'm fascinated with the window in which I can learn about other people and learn about myself while studying this.
- [32:25]
Joe Saul Sehive
The whole behavioral aspect of this whole pursuit is unbelievable. I'll never get tired of it. The book is called the Art of Spending Money. It is available everywhere. And just a personal question. This is a psychology of money, Morgan, which was more fun to write?
- [32:41]
Morgan Housel
Oh, that's such a good question there. I think the Psychology of Money. It was a culmination of at that point have been about 15 years of heavy thinking about this topic.
- [32:49]
Joe Saul Sehive
I couldn't tell. It doesn't read like you'd heavily thought about it at all. For anybody that doesn't recognize the sarcasm there, that was very sarcastic.
- [32:57]
Morgan Housel
But what's also true is that the Art of Spending Money is a book that I needed for myself. I needed to think about these topics in my own life because I felt like I was deficient in thinking about these. I didn't have a good. I could talk to you for hours about my investing philosophy, but five years ago, if you said, what is your spending philosophy? I would have drawn a blank. And so I needed this book for myself. And so it's meaningful for me for that reason.
- [33:20]
Joe Saul Sehive
Morgan, thank you so much in the spendiest month of the year for helping us get a little more philosophical about money. I appreciate the time so much.
- [33:28]
Morgan Housel
Thanks so much for having me. We're looking for the answer and correct spelling.
- [33:32]
OG
Old MacDonald had a what farm?
- [33:34]
Morgan Housel
E I E I O.
- [33:41]
Doug
Hey there Stackers. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and plenty of Stackers have spent countless Benjamins visiting our national parks. And one national park was created back on today's date in 1978. This park was definitely on Santa's Naughty list. Which park? Clearly not a good one am I talking about? I'll be back right after I help edit Joe's mom's Christmas list. Asking for a friend. Do you spell bustier with one t or two? It's unclear.
- [34:14]
Joe Saul Sehive
Well, this year Stacker Give a gift that goes far beyond the moment. An Invest529 account whether it's a child, grandchildren, or someone just starting out, you're helping them save for education that could open doors for a lifetime. Invest 529 is a tax advantage way to save for college, trade school, or even apprenticeship programs. It's flexible, easy to start, and you can contribute any amount, big or small. And because the money can grow tax free, it's a gift that really builds value over time. So instead of giving something that gets used up or set aside, give the gift that can change a Life. Start an Invest 529 account today. Go to invest529.com to learn more and to get started. Investments involve risk, but results vary. Consult with your financial and tax professionals Administered by Commonwealth Savers Plan.
- [35:07]
Progressive Insurance Announcer
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- [36:22]
Doug
Hey there Stackers. I'm Christmas List Editor and guy who's easily grossed out Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. Today, a very naughty national park was created back in nineteen 1978. This 244,000 acre park on Santa's naughty list is the home of one of the nation's biggest treasure trove of fossils. But what park is it? A park that Santa definitely frowns upon. Of course, if it's on Santa's Naughty list, it would have to be none other than the Badlands. Happy birthday, Badlands. And now back to two guys who are fighting for last place on Santa's Naughty List. Joe N. OG this is a fun.
- [37:05]
Joe Saul Sehive
Thing to do at home. Cheryl and I did this for a while. Whenever the word bag comes up, we just replace it with the word naughty and it just changes. Changes everything.
- [37:15]
Doug
It's a funny word.
- [37:16]
Joe Saul Sehive
That is so naughty. Yeah, just, it's, it's the little things in life. See, you don't have to spend money. Thanks to Morgan Houselike, we can just change a couple words and life gets fun. Here. Mom's basement. Oh, gee, you've got spending down. But Morgan clearly has a different view of the art of spending than you.
- [37:35]
OG
Do, which is okay.
- [37:37]
Joe Saul Sehive
Yeah.
- [37:38]
OG
To each their own.
- [37:39]
Joe Saul Sehive
You've. You've got yours. Let's do a headline.
- [37:43]
OG
Hello, darlings. And now it's time for your favorite part of the show, our stacking Benjamin's Headlines.
- [37:49]
Joe Saul Sehive
You know, everybody's talking about AI the topic that we were chatting about on Monday. There is something that is happening in the background that probably OG if you're thinking about the basics and the fundamentals of money, might be a bigger headline. This comes to us from investment news. Warren Buffett, quote, going Quiet, converts $1.35 billion in Berkshire shares in Farewell as CEO. Buffett, the legendary investor and longtime leader of Berkshire Hathaway, has announced he will step down from his role as the company's chief executive at the end of this year, marking the end of an era for one of America's most closely watched conglomerates. Of course, we very sadly said goodbye to Charlie Munger last year, and Warren Buffett is retiring at 95 years old. OG what a run for the iconic investor.
- [38:48]
OG
Like he said, paraphrasing, you know, he couldn't have been born at a better time. Like, it's like the. Literally the perfect time to be born and. And the perfect country to be born in.
- [38:59]
Joe Saul Sehive
So look at all the people that were born during this time.
- [39:02]
OG
Sure. Yeah.
- [39:03]
Joe Saul Sehive
And look at how many people messed up their investments. And Warren did exactly the opposite.
- [39:10]
OG
And it's funny, mess up. I mean, he messed up, but he won more times than he lost, I think.
- [39:15]
Doug
What a great inspiration for the fire community. I mean, he checking out at 95, getting out early.
- [39:20]
Joe Saul Sehive
Right?
- [39:20]
Doug
You know?
- [39:21]
OG
Yeah.
- [39:21]
Doug
Just Getting that financial independence and checking out and just doing what he wants to do.
- [39:25]
OG
Early $60 million.
- [39:27]
Joe Saul Sehive
Yeah, right. Warren Buffett stopping at 95 because now he's Coast Fi. He figured out that even though he could keep working, he doesn't have to save another diamond to his 401k.
- [39:39]
OG
Lean fire. Yep.
- [39:40]
Joe Saul Sehive
Got enough to last the last 5 years till H H100.
- [39:45]
OG
The plan says he's over.
- [39:48]
Joe Saul Sehive
Can you see his financial planner? Warren, I did a bunch of analysis and it appears as long as you.
- [39:55]
OG
Spend less than 20 billion a month, you should be pretty good.
- [40:00]
Joe Saul Sehive
What are some of your favorite Warren Buffett lessons?
- [40:02]
OG
OG lessons? I don't know that there's any lessons, per se. I thought that he was a great communicator in terms of taking complex things and simplifying it, which is what I hope to kind of aspire to do here in my real job. But I was like reading the letters. You can go online, you can get them all, they're all available. And I thought, I think it's kind of cool to pick a year and read what he wrote. And it gives you a little bit of a glimpse into what was going on in that period of time. I think it's also kind of interesting, especially on the heels of our conversation on Monday about market and bubble and that sort of thing. Go back and read some of the annual reports, the Berkshire Hathaway annual reports, they usually come out in February timeframe. Read those in the years following big market declines. If you think he's the best investor of all time or top whatever, see what his commentary was. While all that stuff was going on, when the housing market was crashing, when Covid went on, when, you know, 2022 happened, the debt situation in 2012 and even back further of 1998 and 1991 and 1988 and so on and so forth. So it's, I think it's a good glimpse into how people were thinking. And if you believe, as a lot of people do, that Warren Buffett is a pretty sane investor as time goes on, like, what was he doing during that time? You want the recipe card for success? I don't know that you can. I don't know that you could have a better cake mix put together for you than this guy's investing career, well.
- [41:45]
Joe Saul Sehive
Other people were panicking. He was always bullish on the long term state of the economy. So he stayed calm at the helm. Noted for staying super not just calm at the home, but sometimes even buying into everybody else selling. And he's going in and buying and snatching up prices, which also. The other thing that I like is his commitment to fundamentals. You know, I feel like, especially when we talk about bubbles, that the average investor gets sucked into technical analysis. Even when they don't think that they are, oh, the market is high.
- [42:20]
Morgan Housel
Right.
- [42:20]
Joe Saul Sehive
That's a technical indicator that only works because it's voodoo. People believe it works. So when you look at these candlestick formations that all the technical traders use, it's. It's all voodoo. It's 100 voodoo because everybody thinks it's going to work. Warren Buffett was much, much more about the fundamental. If a company is a good value, if it's a good buy, if he thinks they have a great product, a good management team, he will go in there and buy that stock. He's not looking at, oh, the market's topped out or the, you know, the craziness that we see on a day to day.
- [42:53]
OG
I saw a post the other day from a good friend of mine, so we need to get on the show. As a matter of fact, it's. It was about bitcoin and I don't know what it's at today, but the last, I don't know, six weeks, it's been pretty crazy. And it was like all these charts and lines and arrows and graphs and everything. And it was just like this big spaghetti poster of a Jackson Pollock painting. And it's like, here's your technical analysis for bitcoin. What's happening next? It's like, I agree with you, that stuff works because you think it works because you can find some sort of correlation into. Well, when the Saturn's third moon was visible on the horizon, this one thing happened this one time. So therefore it must happen again. I don't know. Saturn have three moons? I suppose they do. Seems pretty logical.
- [43:41]
Joe Saul Sehive
Big planet, Saturn, far more than three moons. Doug's gonna look up exactly how many, but I think it's in the teens, isn't it Doug?
- [43:48]
Doug
I think, yeah, yeah, Doug's gonna go.
- [43:51]
Joe Saul Sehive
Look that up for us.
- [43:51]
OG
At least three.
- [43:52]
Joe Saul Sehive
Well, we can test.
- [43:52]
OG
I said their third moon.
- [43:54]
Joe Saul Sehive
This, this discussion like Doug's third nipple. Of course there's a third one. Let's transition to Berkshire Hathaway. And now Greg Abel is going to be the new CEO. Do you look at Berkshire Hathaway differently? Og with Greg at the helm versus having Warren Buffett at the helm, I.
- [44:18]
OG
Have so little interest in anything about any individual company, even a behemoth like Berkshire Hathaway, that I couldn't care Less.
- [44:26]
Joe Saul Sehive
I just think that whenever you are investing in an active mutual fund, which I think Berkshire Hathaway would classify.
- [44:35]
OG
Yeah, sure.
- [44:35]
Joe Saul Sehive
As an active mutual fund, the manager at the helm always matters. If you've got something that is an actively traded position versus a passive position, I think it does always matter.
- [44:47]
OG
I don't know if it's good in that context. Yeah, it does. But I don't have individual positions and don't advocate for them. So his CEO ship is no different to me than the. When somebody takes over at Procter and Gamble or when what's his name came back to Disney. Like, I recognize the name. Like, oh yeah, I know. I've heard of that guy.
- [45:09]
Joe Saul Sehive
That shows how much Doug, he truly pays. If somebody else takes our Proctor Gable, that one guy takes over at that other one company.
- [45:18]
OG
Yeah, I mean, you know, you recognize the name or something, you just go, oh, okay. I've heard that per. You know. Yeah, Bob Iger. I've heard it before, but I think.
- [45:26]
Joe Saul Sehive
It is the same. You know, when somebody comes into your. Your company gets taken over by another company and the new management team comes in, what do they always say? Nothing's going to change. That's 100% not true. Something change. Every single time there's a new manager, things change. The only constant is change. Doug, how many moons are there for Saturn?
- [45:48]
Doug
There are 278 moons. 274 confirmed moons, obviously making it the most. The planet with the most moons in our solar system, the moon. That number jumped significantly just this past March. They discovered another 128 moons in March of 2025, bringing the total to 274. Unconfirmed. About the size of the third moon.
- [46:10]
Joe Saul Sehive
I thought that it was in the teens, so I was even. I think it's in the teens.
- [46:15]
OG
No, you were wrong.
- [46:16]
Doug
Before March.
- [46:17]
OG
How the heck. I mean, we've got satellites, for God's sake. The Hubble telescope just went by there.
- [46:23]
Doug
How are we discovering them now?
- [46:25]
OG
It's like, oh, wait, we're off by a hundred. You know, come on.
- [46:29]
Doug
128 new moons.
- [46:30]
OG
I don't buy it.
- [46:32]
Doug
I'll show you a new moon.
- [46:35]
OG
NASA people trying to stay relevant again.
- [46:37]
Doug
Space Force. Space Force.
- [46:39]
Joe Saul Sehive
OG Back in the news. We need to discover new moons. Don't, don't, don't Release the latest 200 all at once. Let's do it one at a time. Every other day. I'm gonna link to this.
- [46:52]
OG
So finish this up because I got a completely different thing that I just thought of.
- [46:56]
Joe Saul Sehive
We'll Link to this in the in our Show Notes Stacking benjamin.com Things changing at Berkshire Hathaway here in the month. Warren Buffett saying goodbye. Wow. Just wild day.
- [47:08]
OG
Speaking of Warren Buffett, I was on YouTube the other day and I was watching this interview with an astrophysicist. He was talking about traveling at the speed of light or nearly at the speed of light. And there's the thing in Switzerland, you know that they loop protons around, what's that called?
- [47:26]
Doug
CERN.
- [47:27]
OG
CERN, yeah, it's 27 miles long or something. But because they're traveling at, on nearly the speed of light, it's like a, it's, it closes distances so it's like a 4 meter loop for them. That's kind of the way that they think about it. Anyways, he was talking about if you could build a space shuttle that traveled nearly the speed of light, it would take, you know, 10 minutes to traverse the galaxy or the Andromeda galaxy or something, turn around and come back. But the problem now, what's that you're.
- [47:57]
Doug
Just saying words now, things you've heard in movies.
- [48:01]
OG
But then when you turn back, this is like basically the storyline of interstellar. But then when you came back to tell everybody on Earth what you saw, it would have been like 4 million years.
- [48:10]
Doug
Yeah. So what's the point? Why even bother?
- [48:15]
Joe Saul Sehive
Yes.
- [48:16]
Doug
None of the people you graduated high school with are going to be able to hear how cool you are.
- [48:20]
Joe Saul Sehive
How cool.
- [48:21]
OG
Yeah, my brain has a hard time with that. That's all I have to say there because I was thinking about Saturn and how long it would take to get there and I was like, oh, if I was in space shuttle like this guy talked about, it'd be really quick.
- [48:29]
Doug
But then this is a worthwhile divers about this.
- [48:32]
Joe Saul Sehive
Well, on that note, I saw the news recently that Voyager 1 is now approaching one light day. Yeah, one light day away from the Earth.
- [48:43]
OG
And I thought that left in 78, right?
- [48:45]
Doug
Yes, I think so.
- [48:46]
Joe Saul Sehive
And I thought why? Why the heck did it take it that long to go one Earth day? And then I looked and I saw it is now 25,369,836,867 miles away from that anymore.
- [49:04]
OG
Now it's further.
- [49:05]
Joe Saul Sehive
Yeah, 25 billion miles away from Earth. It takes light one day.
- [49:08]
Doug
And that's one. Yeah, one light day. I just keep when we think about that, like how did we invent something in 1978 that can still communicate with us from that far away?
- [49:19]
OG
Well, didn't they Think it was only going to last like a year or something. They're like, yeah, if we can get past Mars, that would be incredible.
- [49:25]
Joe Saul Sehive
Yeah. Pretty sure.
- [49:27]
Doug
Yeah. I don't know if I believe any of it.
- [49:29]
OG
It's all Hollywood, man.
- [49:32]
Doug
That's not everything's a hoax.
- [49:33]
OG
Earth is flat happening.
- [49:36]
Joe Saul Sehive
What else is going on in the back porch, Doug?
- [49:41]
Doug
You know, Joe, I think it's time because of the giant stacks and stacks of books behind you, not including the one called Stacked with that nice subtle yellow cover, we gave away books to some of our listeners, our stackers for trivia, not too long ago. But you've got a lot more to give away, right?
- [50:01]
Joe Saul Sehive
I do. Our wonderful intern Debeney did a great job of creating the master list. There were far more books on the master list than I thought. So we love it when people review the show. If you give us a five, please don't give us a glowing five star review because you want a book. But if you were going to give us a review anyway, really, you were going to give us a review, then send that to me, Joe, stackybenjamins.com and I will show you the master list of all of these books. Now, the reason I've got so many books to give away is because people send me their book to prep for the interview. And I just can't. Over nearly 15 years, I can't keep all of these books. So I have stacks and stacks and stacks of really good books that people have sent that have either been on the show, have wanted to be on the show that are books. Heck, there's even a few of the fiction books I've read that I'm like, you know what? Somebody prefers just some fiction or, or some things about house remodeling, which we did recently, books on those topics. It is Joe's giveaway.
- [51:06]
Doug
Why not just put them on Facebook Marketplace and have all the weirdos come to your house like normal people do?
- [51:11]
Joe Saul Sehive
Oh, that's what I probably should do. I, I prefer to keep the weirdos, our stacker weirdos. Okay? So yes, the cool weirdos, that is people like us. So send me, if you leave us a review, send that to me, Joe stackybenjamins.com and I will. Would love to then give you the master list. Give me your dress and we will get that out to you. So we're gonna start up gifting during the holidays and imagine you could take one of these gently used books and gift it to a friend. Perfect. Like the perfect holiday gift. You know, it's Another gift you can give yourself, Doug. The gift of financial literacy and doing a better job.
- [51:50]
OG
Just say the gift of OG the.
- [51:52]
Joe Saul Sehive
Gift of OG all gift wrapped. Imagine under your tree.
- [51:57]
Doug
What could make somebody want to get that more than him saying, just give the gift of O.G.
- [52:04]
Joe Saul Sehive
Oh yay, Martha. What the hell is this guy doing under our tree?
- [52:08]
Doug
Merry Christmas.
- [52:08]
Joe Saul Sehive
I gave you the gift of out again.
- [52:12]
Doug
Bourbon and cigars like Billy Bob Thornton under your tree.
- [52:15]
OG
Good. That's a great image for basically my next four weeks of life. Bad Santa. I'm on lunch break.
- [52:24]
Morgan Housel
Oh gee.
- [52:25]
Joe Saul Sehive
Body hugging a half fifth of Woodford. Yeah. Stacky benjamin.com/og and you can have a better year financially than you had in 2025. I know a lot of people are hoping to do better next year than they did this year. And if that's why you're here and you're looking for good help, well, OG Anna and the team are now meeting with potential new clients. So if you want to see how their team will interface with you and your family to do better with your money. Stacky benjamin.com OG all right, coming up on Friday, fantastic roundtable discussion. We've got the Andy Hill joining us.
- [53:02]
Doug
Nicest guy in personal finance at 100%.
- [53:06]
Joe Saul Sehive
Yep. Love it when Andy joins the discussion.
- [53:09]
Doug
Second nicest. Oh, thank you, Doug.
- [53:12]
Joe Saul Sehive
Take it from here, man. What should we have learned on today's episode?
- [53:17]
Doug
Well, Joe, first, take some advice from Morgan Housel Spending money this month. Mindfulness can change the trajectory of any person's financial outlook. Second, whenever someone retires, their workplace changes. Things change for Berkshire Hathaway. But how? Only time will tell. But the big lesson don't share with OG Facts about the badlands. He'll counter your facts with his own about Wicked. Which is worse, being bad or being wicked? Wicked sucks. He's about to go into a fit of rage because I said Wicked sucks. Just let him go, Joe. Thanks to Morgan Housel for joining us today. You'll find his art of spending money wherever books are sold. We'll also include links in our show notes@stackingbenjamins.com this show is the property of SB Podcasts, LLC, Copyright 2025 and is created by Joe Saul Sehive. Joe gets help from a few of our neighborhood friends. You'll find out about our awesome team at Stacking Benjamin along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello.
- [54:30]
Joe Saul Sehive
Oh yeah.
- [54:31]
Doug
And before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds don't take advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And we'll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin show.
- [55:13]
Joe Saul Sehive
Sam, speaking of Wicked, I saw the first half of the movie and I thought it was really good. I thought it was fun. I thought that the music, the effects, the cast, everything was good. I don't think I need to see the second one.
- [55:54]
OG
You kind of know what happens.
- [55:55]
Joe Saul Sehive
Yeah, I just. I don't know why, but I'm like, I don't think so.
- [55:59]
OG
Why take a two hour.
- [56:00]
Joe Saul Sehive
I know.
- [56:01]
OG
Play and turn it into a five hour second one? Yeah, they stopped it. The first movie was like the first half.
- [56:07]
Joe Saul Sehive
I don't understand that creative decision. It just feels like a money grab.
- [56:11]
OG
You think?
- [56:12]
Joe Saul Sehive
Yeah. Wow.
- [56:14]
Doug
Why would anybody do that?
- [56:15]
Joe Saul Sehive
But there are some money grabs out there that we have all been watching. Yeah. Because maybe they've done a good job. I've been watching. Nobody wants this. Season two as much tension and fun as season one. Kristen Bell, Adrian Brody. Good series, 27 minutes at a time. If you like the first season, you're going to like the season two. What are you guys watching?
- [56:36]
OG
Yeah, football is done for the kiddos. Softball's done for Caroline. It's quiet time. So now I get some TV time. Really excited about finishing 1923, the second season. I kind of like all that storyline. I think that's pretty cool, actually. Never saw the end of season five of Yellowstone, so maybe I'll just. I mean, I've seen enough clips to know what happens, so probably just kind of bang that out too. Landman, Season two is out on Paramount, so go get your subscription restarted. I think they're releasing those weekly, which kind of sucks too. So you might want to wait a few more weeks. And then I started this series and I'm not a huge thriller fan, but so far so good. This is a series on Netflix called the Last Frontier.
- [57:27]
Joe Saul Sehive
I need to know what happened up there.
- [57:34]
Morgan Housel
We diverted, made an unscheduled pickup. They said he was high priority. He was hooded, restrained. They called him Havelock. It's like he knew.
- [57:47]
Joe Saul Sehive
He knew what?
- [58:03]
Morgan Housel
All right, everyone circle up. We have a downplane two miles south from here. Is used to move inmates around the country.
- [58:11]
Joe Saul Sehive
11 a capture. 18 still missing.
- [58:15]
Morgan Housel
This is going to be their one shot at freedom.
- [58:17]
Progressive Insurance Announcer
Mr. Remnick, Sydney Schofield.
- [58:19]
Morgan Housel
CIA Pavlocks out there.
- [58:21]
Progressive Insurance Announcer
Exactly.
- [58:22]
Morgan Housel
Executing A plan. Do whatever it takes to secure the perimeter. Knock, knock. Let's go through. This is Alaska. There is no perimeter.
- [58:30]
OG
Kind of an interesting start on this season. Basically. I don't know how many seasons are going to be. It just says season one on Apple TV called the Last Frontier starts out there. It's a plane full of inmates, including one person who is bound and gagged and hooded and, you know, whatever.
- [58:46]
Joe Saul Sehive
This is like, present day. Yeah.
- [58:49]
OG
Plane crash happens. Obviously, it's kind of suspicious. There's inmates all over Fairbanks, Alaska, now. There's one marshal in town who's basically, like, not mailing it in, but he likes the quiet life, hasn't fired his service weapon in his whole life. He's just up there, finds out about this plane crash, goes to check it out, and it's just pure chaos. And then all of a sudden, now the CIA shows up and says, hey, by the way, one of those inmates he might have put on there without your permission, we're going to need him. And we kind of think he's in charge of this whole thing. We kind of think that he's the mastermind of this whole crash.
- [59:31]
Joe Saul Sehive
Ringleader. Yeah.
- [59:33]
OG
And then all the stuff happens, right? Like wives are abducted, people are killed. You know, just. It's this whole thing. So I'm only two episodes in. My son likes this type of show. He really loved Dexter because of the thrillerness of it, and so I stopped watching it to kind of get him caught back up so I can. So I can watch it with him. Only eight episodes, so we'll probably get through it before the holidays are over. But, you know, pretty suspenseful, kind of fun. It says it's created by the same people as the Blacklist. Yeah, if that works. If you remember that show.
- [60:04]
Joe Saul Sehive
Just everything I heard in that trailer was sound like something I'd like to.
- [60:07]
OG
Yeah, it's great. I mean, it's definitely like, every. Again. I've only watched two episodes, but each ending scene was something of like, cliffhanger, where you're like, what the heck?
- [60:18]
Joe Saul Sehive
I know. I got to turn on the next.
- [60:20]
OG
You know, it's like, that's the bag. I thought that was the bad guy. Why is she protecting him? Like, hold on. Oh, that's the bad guy. Like, wait, what? That's not the. Who's on the phone? Hello, Frank? Fade to black. And you're like, oh, my God. The black.
- [60:35]
Joe Saul Sehive
The bad guy.
- [60:36]
OG
He's on the phone. Cool start.
- [60:37]
Joe Saul Sehive
I do that every time. Every time OG Calls. Oh, God. Who's on the phone.
- [60:43]
OG
Who's on the phone?