Real Money Horror Stories (And How Not to Star in Your Own) SB1753

Summary

The Stacking Benjamins Show

Episode: Real Money Horror Stories (And How Not to Star in Your Own) — SB1753
Airdate: October 27, 2025
Host(s): Joe Saul-Sehy, OG, Doug
Special Guest: Chuck Jaffe (Host of Money Life with Chuck Jaffe)

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Episode Overview

This special Halloween episode dives into the “money horror stories” of listeners and explores how financial lessons and behavioral economics can be taught—often in unexpectedly fun ways, like Chuck Jaffe’s legendary Halloween “candy-for-cash” games. The hosts bring their signature humor and relatable storytelling, highlighting both the costly mistakes and teachable moments lurking in everyone’s financial past. The episode blends holiday spirit with practical advice, expert insights, and plenty of entertaining banter.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Chuck Jaffe’s Halloween Economic Game

(Starts ~07:49)

• Background:

  • For 10+ years, Chuck turns trick-or-treating into a personal finance laboratory, offering kids choices: cash, candy, or a gamble for more.
  • Game evolves each year, with both lessons and “behavioral finance” baked in. It’s famous in his neighborhood for transforming Halloween into a hands-on economics class.

• How the Game Works Nowadays:

  • Basic Choices: Kids (grade 3+) choose:
    1. Full-size candy bar (retail $1.69, often bought on sale for less)
    2. $1 bill
    3. “Trade up:” Give Chuck 2 “fun size” candies for a mystery envelope (contains $0.25–$8, avg. value $1.60)
    4. “The Lottery:” Trade 5 candies for 1 of 25 envelopes (only one has the $25 jackpot; expected value $1)
    • Young kids just get standard candy.

• Behavioral Observations:

  • Some kids just grab and go; others analyze for “best win.” Over the years, kids “regress to the mean”—after winning big once, they opt for safer bets next time.
  • “What you have to recognize is they are as good at it as they put the time and effort in.” (Chuck Jaffe, 09:23)
  • Lessons emerge about risk, negotiating, scarcity (as when one daughter extorts more candy for her last “plain chocolate bar”), and instant vs. delayed gratification.

• This Year’s “Twist”:

  • Kids can open lottery envelopes in front of Chuck. If they lose, they get a “second chance lottery”—hand over 5 more candies for a slightly smaller jackpot ($20). Teaches the diminishing value of repeated gambling (you spend more, for a lesser prize).
    • “Did you have twice as much fun? … There’s a valuable lesson there.” (Chuck Jaffe, 20:18)
  • Emphasizes concepts like “expected value,” opportunity cost, and the sunk-cost fallacy—made relatable for kids.

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2. Money Lessons Hidden in Candy Trades

(14:54–17:44, 28:52–30:08)

• Candy as Currency: Kids instinctively trade candy after Halloween for preferred types (supply/demand). Scarcity and negotiating tactics appear.
• Teachable Moments: Parents can use Halloween not only to discuss money, but also concepts like giving (donating surplus candy) and prioritizing (which candies to keep or trade).

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3. Listener Money Horror Stories

(38:23–53:18)

Doug dramatically reads stories sent in by listeners—each one a “financial horror” with a lesson:

Luis: “Freddy R. Krueger, the Retirement Killer”

(38:28)

• Procrastination on retirement savings leads to anxiety about lost compounding and opportunity.
• “He doesn’t chase, he collects. Every bad decision I make accrues to him every year I didn’t invest...”
  (Doug, narrating Luis, 39:13)

Jennifer: “Nightmare on Credit Union Street”

(41:39)

• Swapped banks, paycheck deposit delays, account freezes, and a modern-day “nightmare on my street.”
• Timely reminder about the pain of financial transitions and keeping emergency cash handy.

Cesar: “Bad Advice from Coworkers”

(43:08)

• Was told to overdraft his account for gas as a young worker, treats overdrafts as a hack, not a risk.
• The crew discusses “kiting checks” and the various ways people mismanage timing—sometimes enabled by bad peer advice.

Annette: “Failed DIY Cross-Country Move”

(48:34)

• Plan to save on moving costs backfires: unreliable buyers, mechanical problems, unexpected expenses, and the fallacy of “saving money” through DIY.
• Leads to banter about the “guy math” of tool purchases and how good intentions can cost more than anticipated.

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4. Key Quotes & Memorable Segments

• On Behavioral Economics:
  • “I’ve had great conversations with kids about risk. I have kids who really want to understand what’s done. I’ve had kids who have won big, who come back the next year and are like, ‘I won big… odds of me doing that twice are so slim, I’ll take a different choice.’”
    (Chuck Jaffe, 10:52)
• Teaching Kids with Candy:
  • “There is a real thing in all of this… If you got, you know, gee, I didn’t get a fair deal. Why didn’t I get a fair deal? Well, it’s because I wasn’t willing to compromise. Here. Those are negotiating skills that someday are going to help you.”
    (Chuck Jaffe, 12:55)
• On the Allure of Gambling:
  • “Although I’ve never bought a lottery ticket myself, I understand it, and I think there’s real value in playing ‘what if’ games around the lottery.”
    (Chuck Jaffe, 19:52)
• Practical Teaching Moment:
  • “If you only get a few people for Halloween, buy full size versions of your favorite candy… Take a couple of envelopes… put a dollar in each and $5 in one… offer them the choice, cash or candy, and see what they take…You gave out full size candy bars or money, which encourages them to come back.”
    (Chuck Jaffe, 10:56)
• The Perils of DIY:
  • “Our money-saving plan turned out to be the most expensive idea we’d ever had.”
    (Annette’s story read by Doug, 49:47)

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5. Hosts’ Halloween Money Traditions

(36:38–37:58)

• OG describes “taxing” his kids’ candy haul to teach about taxes (“tax man gets the good stuff first”).
• Doug shares about needing to “safety test” Starbursts due to peanut allergies—a good-natured excuse for sampling.

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6. Community Segment & Feedback

(54:04–59:10)

• Readings of “dad pun”-style listener jokes and feedback
• Encouragement to act even if your workplace or the government doesn’t provide the “perfect” vehicle—open a brokerage account, don’t wait for permission (55:54).
• “Focus your time on the stuff that you can control.” (Joe Saul-Sehy, 57:20)

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Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• “Some of my neighbors are so cheap, it’s not even the frustrating size, it’s the tiny [candy]!”
  — Chuck Jaffe (17:44)

• “Did you have twice as much fun? Because if you didn’t have twice as much fun, there’s a valuable lesson there...”
  — Chuck Jaffe (20:18)

• “I know what your properties are worth, guys. You can spend more on candy.”
  — Chuck Jaffe (17:44)

• “Halloween is a teaching tool. Beyond all the things that make me love Halloween.”
  — Chuck Jaffe (13:31)

• “Kids will game any system you have, try to figure it out. We’ve had to go to some great lengths to try to make sure that kids are … not gaming the envelopes.”
  — Chuck Jaffe (22:11)

• “I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had a money-saving plan that went awry like this...”
  — Joe Saul-Sehy (50:36)

• “If you need to save more than the IRS allows in your 401k, just do it outside the plan—don’t wait for government permission to be responsible.”
  — Joe Saul-Sehy, paraphrasing the segment (56:57)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Chuck Jaffe’s Halloween Game Introduction — 07:49
• Lessons from the Game / Candy as Currency — 09:23, 12:06
• “Second Chance Lottery” Twist — 19:36
• Listener Money Horror Story Readings — 38:23
  • Luis (“Freddy Krueger”): 38:28
  • Jennifer (Credit Union): 41:39
  • Cesar (Coworker Advice): 43:08
  • Annette (DIY Move): 48:34
• Discussion on Bad Money Advice — 45:25+
• Community/Dad Puns/Listener Feedback — 54:04
• Financial Responsibility Beyond Employer Plans — 56:57
• Key Takeaways Recap & Show Signoff — 60:02

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Overall Tone and Style

As always, the tone is light, self-deprecating, and funny—mixing accessible practical advice and stories with plenty of Halloween puns, offbeat digressions, and playful ribbing. Chuck Jaffe’s segment stands out for both wit and clarity as he demystifies both probability and money smarts for kids (and adults!).

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Takeaways

• Use holidays (like Halloween) as organic teachable moments about money and value, not just candy.
• Trick-or-treating can introduce concepts like risk, negotiation, opportunity cost, and the dangers of “just one more try.”
• Many “money horror stories” start with procrastination, bad peer advice, or overconfidence in DIY savings schemes.
• Don’t let a lack of employer benefits stop you—use taxable brokerage accounts, automate savings, and focus on what you control.
• Learn from mistakes—yours and others’. And don’t let your kid’s last Crunch Bar go for one Tootsie Roll.

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For First-Time Listeners

This episode is a perfect mix of light entertainment and serious financial education. Whether you want to laugh at others’ cautionary tales, glean parenting hacks for money lessons, or feel better about your own “horror stories,” there’s something here for you. And if you want practical tips for raising money-savvy kids (or households that talk money with less dread), Chuck Jaffe’s Halloween experiment is a must-listen.

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Next Up:
Episode mid-week on communicating clearly about money with your partner or housemates, featuring Doug and Heather Bonaparte.

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This summary skips sponsor reads, intro/outro chatter, and focuses relentlessly on the fun and functional money wisdom in the show.

Transcript

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

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[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Learn [e-mail] It's Monday morning and good news. Here in the basement, Doug is home from the knitting festival, which he goes to every year. Did you knit something nice for us? Did you give us mittens?

[Doug]

Super bowl of knitting?

[OG]

It ends.

[Doug]

No, no, no. I. I drive. I am a designated driver just to transport the wife back and forth to Rhinebeck, New York each year for the super bowl of knitting, as I call it. Just keeping her safe.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, guess what we do at the beginning of every Monday show, we have the super bowl of intros where we all raise our mugs and say this on behalf of the men and women making podcast in Mom's basement and the men and women at Navy Federal Credit Union who serve our TR a safe all weekend while Doug was transporting the crazy knitting mob, the Knitting Mafia, taking them from place to place.

[Doug]

It's totally a mafia.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Thank you for keeping them safe.

[Doug]

Thanks everybody.

[OG]

Cheers.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Let's go stack some Benjamin's.

[Chuck Jaffe]

Oh, it's Monday, baby. It is Monday. Start of the new week. It's raining outside. It's cold.

[Doug]

It's gloomy.

[Chuck Jaffe]

There's every reason to not be excited. But guess what baby? We are excited. Moto motivated.

[Doug]

We're dangerous and disciplined.

[Chuck Jaffe]

We have a new week in front of us. A new week to chase after every dream. We want a new week.

[Doug]

Live from Joe's mom's basement, it's the Stacking Benjamin show. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And what ghoulish tricks do we have up our sleeve today? Frightful ones, of course. On today's show, we hear this year's version of the greatest Halloween game ever played with the one and only Chuck Jaffe. In our headline segment, your ghoulishly haunted money stories, what items have gone bump in the night with your wallet? You'll find out all of this and more. And speaking of terrifyingly funny, of course, then I'll share some hella crazy trivia. And now, two guys who are scary because they look like those nasty neighbors from the HOA It's Joe and. Oh, Jaja. Ja. Ja. G.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That is the most frightening Halloween costume. We're here from the hoa, OG we're just here to help.

[Doug]

We'd like to talk to you about your mailbox.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, if we could talk to you about your lighting outside of your house, that would be great. We got a great show today. You know, it's going to be exciting. Stack of Benjamin show. We got three bleeps in the first 25 seconds. What? OG said he was gonna do a cold open for us. Doug, I had no idea that was coming.

[Doug]

That was a bucket of cold.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Talk about wake us up.

[OG]

I got a whole week. Tune in Wednesday for Wednesdays.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Wow. Holy cow.

[OG]

Somebody found the Internet again. Somebody found the Internet again.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And it's gonna be fun for OG for, like, the first. The next 27 seconds. It's gonna be really fun. And then he's gonna turn it back off. Go. What the heck was I doing? We got a great show today. As Doug so succinctly explained. We got the Chuck Jaffe here, OG and that means that we are gonna have some fun with Halloween like we do every year. You're getting ready to have some fun with Halloween, aren't you?

[OG]

Yeah, we are presently in the. In the mouse house right now. Gonna go to the not so scary Halloween party tomorrow.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It's super scary for you, though. I mean, let's be real.

[OG]

All the villains are out. Have you ever been?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

No, I've never had been, but I've heard it's fantastic.

[OG]

It's insanely fantastic. All the villains, that's the only time you can see them is at the Halloween party.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I've heard getting the Queen of Hearts. I think her autograph in your autograph book is one of the few autographs that actually the uber geeks at Disney will pay for. They want that. Doug wants that. Look at Doug.

[OG]

Doug is so excited, so forlorn that he doesn't. He just. He just remembered that he's missing that one.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, we got a super show. We got a super week. We're doing all things Halloween all week long, and we're going to kick it off with the Chuck Jaffe. Chuck back in the 1990s, back when I was a financial planner, gather out kids and I'll tell you stories about the old days. But one thing I used to do was I read Chuck Jaffe's columns religiously and I would clip them out and when my clients wondered about long term care and how to approach it or whatever and they wanted a third party. Chuck Jaffe, always the voice of reason. Of course. Now he's the host of the Money Life with Chuck Jaffe Show. But he's even better known as the guy who every single Halloween season comes down to the basement to explain this cool game he plays in his neighborhood. He turns Halloween into a fun economic game and you can too. And we're going to talk to him about this year's iteration of the game. So that's what's on tap. That and we asked all of you stackers about your money horror stories. We're going to hear those today. So sit back and relax and get ready for some ghoulishly fun money nerdery. But first we got a couple of sponsors to make sure we can keep on keeping on so that you don't have to pay a dime for any of this Halloween flavor goodness. We're going to hear from them. And then Chuck Jaffe joins us here in Mom's basement.

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[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And it wouldn't be Halloween week. Wouldn't be able to kick off the weekend without this gentleman who comes by the way every year Dressed up is like a semi cynical journalist type podcasting guy. Been around the block. Chuck Jaffe's back. How are you, man?

[Chuck Jaffe]

I'm great. Trick or treat, Joe.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That is a scary, scary uniform you bring down here every year, my friend.

[Chuck Jaffe]

You know, my favorite Halloween costume always involved things with a box. When I was a kid, it was always like, can I do something that I got to wear a box and. And make a box into a costume. And I am a huge believer, and I have it ready at the drop of a hat that an ATM machine makes a fabulous, fabulous costume. I'm ready.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It could be ATM machine that's out of order. It just seems like every time now that I need an ATM machine, which is never, I always find the one that's not in order. And maybe it's because fewer people want ATM machines, but that's a whole different, whole different thing. Let's focus on this year's edition of your amazing game that you play at Halloween for people that. Well, everybody knows, Chuck, because as you were coming down the stairs, you heard us talk about the game and about how you come here every year to celebrate Halloween with us. But I guess I want to ask you this. As you play the game with kids year after year after year, do you find that the average kid who comes to play your game instead of just getting Halloween candy, are they generally good at it? Are they bad at it? Like, what do you really like about the decision making that you see in front of you?

[Chuck Jaffe]

Well, I think what you have to recognize is they are as good at it as they put the time and effort in to do it. If what they want to do is move on, then they will make whatever choice is impulsive. If what they want to do is figure out how to get a win and they want to decide what that win would be, they become great consumers. And it's an important lesson because I think that's how we are. We all know people like my wife will tell you, you know, she doesn't really care about money. She, she needs it, she wants it, et cetera. But it has never been like, she's not the one who's going to go, oh, let me figure out the best way to save this way. She'll use a coupon if it's handy, but she won't spend any time looking for it or what have you. So we know adults are the same way that. That some have a real interest in this and try to make it work and others don't. And kids, it's almost ingrained in them from the beginning. Because you will see the kids who are like, yeah, I've been here before, just give me a candy bar, just give me a buck or whatever. And you get the other ones who really want to dig in and figure it out. And none of them are wrong. But you do kind of hope, and maybe I'll get it if I live here long enough because I've been doing this now for 10 years, that you'll see some of those things play out. But again, I've had great conversations with kids about risk. I have kids who really want to understand what's done. I've had kids who have won big, who come back the next year and are like, I won big. The odds of me doing that twice are so slim. I'll take a different choice.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

They're already counting. A reversion to the mean.

[Chuck Jaffe]

Exactly. Which is really interesting when you think you're so far ahead. Why wouldn't you just take another chance? Yet that's how they come wired. So some of it is how they're wired, some of it is, you know, they're dressed in costume and they're going out. What they do like is that this is different. And that's why I'll tell everyone, you can do this at home. And my joke is always for the people. I only get a few people for Halloween. Let me explain. If you only get a few people for Halloween, there's an easy way to do this. Go buy full sized versions of your favorite candy or your spouse's favorite candy. Then take a couple of envelopes, however many candy bars you have, take that many envelopes, put a dollar in each envelope and $5 in one envelope. And when the kids come, offer them the choice, cash or candy and see what they take. Because what you're going to be left with is A, your favorite candy bar or your spouse's favorite candy. So there's nothing wrong with that. And B, you gave out full size candy bars or money, which encourages them to come back. And we'd all like more trick or treaters on Halloween.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I know the, the waistline. Your dentist might not agree.

[Chuck Jaffe]

Chuck, you know, if for those who get way too much candy or if you don't do this for yourself, candy is currency on Halloween. So if you don't do like I'm gonna give out cash or candy the way I do, come back the other way. I always tell the story of my two kids. I had one daughter who only liked plain chocolate and the other was a garbage can. She would eat anything and the result is when they first get home, they'd lay out their candy and the one who only ate chocolate would trade whatever she had. You know, kind of straight up, oh, I'll give you one of these for this. But then she get to where her sister only had like three plain chocolate bars left. And her sister put the screws to her. Her sister was like, no, you want my last three plain chocolate bars? I'll take pretty much everything else you've got.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Are you saying the tariffs got pretty high?

[Chuck Jaffe]

Yeah, exactly. But it teaches them economic value. It. There is a real thing in all of this that the lessons are real and they're being learned in other ways. But if you feel that you got, you know, gee, I didn't get a fair deal. Why didn't I get a fair deal? Well, it's because I wasn't willing to compromise. Here. Those are negotiating skills that someday are going to be something that helps you with a car or, or with a job or whatever. And you might as well learn them on the easiest currency you're ever going to get. So I love Halloween as a teaching tool. Beyond all of the things that make me love Halloween.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I got one more thing, Chuck, before we get into this year's version of the game, which I can't wait to hear. It's one of the most exciting things I do every year is hear about the new game. Like, I'm so excited. But before we do that, you haven't incorporated this into the game yet, but you talk about your one daughter who loves the chocolate bar, and so the other daughter makes her pay. There is a chocolate bar that kids like more than any other. You told me. Which I did not find surprising because this is a good candy bar. But you haven't incorporated in the game yet either.

[Chuck Jaffe]

Well, one of the changes we made a couple years ago, and for anybody who's hearing this for the first time, I started this about 10 years ago. And basically once I got to where it was a little more cooked out, I then took it my way and went extreme with it. But every year it changes. And if I lived in a perfect world, I'd do it and then I'd give my neighbor last year's version and they do that and it would just keep going because then you could have real. I mean, trust me, I've talked to award winning behavioral finance economists on how valuable this skill set is and the, the information that we get is. But last year, well, I think it was two years ago, I switched to where it was a full size Candy bar. So for years it was only two. You came to my house, your return on investment was, was three fun siiz pieces of candy.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I call them frustrating size, Chuck. Not, not fun size, frustrating size.

[Chuck Jaffe]

Okay, but they were, at least they weren't the tiny, the really tiny ones.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Right? Yeah.

[Chuck Jaffe]

Right. And so you get three of those. And I ultimately changed it to a full size candy bar. Now a fulls size candy bar has a retail value of 1:69. But I'm cheap and I'm getting them for about 75 cents each on a sale. So truthfully, I'm not spending any more money. And, and by the way, this only applies to kids third grade and up. Younger kids just get three full fun siiz candy bars or frustrating size candy bars and off they go. When I first changed, I did full size candy bars. I bought whatever was on sale. Well, last year what was on sale was Nestle's Crunch bars. It was Nestle's Crunch bars and Hershey bars was what I had. And we ran out of crunch bars. And normally the full size candy bar since we went to it was not a big attraction the year before. But with the crunch bars, every crunch bar went.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I love crunch bars so much.

[Chuck Jaffe]

Yeah. And again. So you need to understand that the base case for a kid third grade and up when they come to my house is now you can have a full size candy bar or you can have a dollar bill. Now again, candy on Halloween is cheap, even if it's a full size candy bar. My neighbors probably gave you a couple of other pieces that have as much weight to them. So candy is cheap and you'd be better off taking the full size candy bar. It's a retail value of A$59 even or 69 even though I only paid 75 cents for it. The retail value A$69. The retail value of the dollar $1. So candy would actually be the better choice. And then we get into the wild stuff. And I will tell you that, yeah, I now believe that the candy that you pick matters and it's not. I, I don't know whether that's Crunch bars were not as prevalent among my neighbors or whether it's, yeah, you know, plain candy bar, Hershey bar was boring. But whatever it is, the crunch bars last year literally had a couple of kids. When the last crunch bar went was like, well, I would have done that but now I'm not going, but there's no crunch bar.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Exactly.

[Chuck Jaffe]

When, when, when the crunch bar was now just any other candy bar, they were like, no. Who knew?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It's an Almond Joy. Forget it. Okay, so the base, the base trade you got to this year like it was last year, I think full size candy bar or a dollar. But wait, there's more this year.

[Chuck Jaffe]

Yeah, well, there's more every year. And actually I really liked what we did last year, so I'm not changing the other base trades. So this part is also what we did last year. Your choice, instead of taking the full size candy bar or the dollar bill, was you could trade me two pieces of fun size candy. Though I will tell you, some of my neighbors are so cheap, it's not even the frustrating size, it's the tiny.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Really.

[Chuck Jaffe]

Like I know what your properties are worth, guys. You can spend more on candy. Two pieces of candy, retail value somewhere between a quarter and 33 cents. To pick an envelope that has between a quarter and $8. Half the envelopes have 25 or 50 cents, but the average envelope was a dollar 60. That means that the expected value of this Choice was A$25, which is the average envelope minus the cost of the candy you traded. So again, if your choice was a dollar or a dollar 69 of candy in a candy bar or a dollar 25, by trading me some candy and getting some cash and hoping it'll be worth more than a dollar, or you could play the lottery. You would trade me five pieces of candy to pick from 25 envelopes. There's a 25 jackpot, but just one envelope that has the money in it. So the average per envelope, a dollar. That's the same dollar you could have gotten by just taking a dollar. But now you've traded me five pieces of candy. That's more than a dollar's worth of candy. So your expected value is negative. And oh, by the way, lots of kids go home with nothing. Now you want the twist, Joe? Because this year we have always said, don't open the envelopes around us. We don't want to know. Because in part, I have to tell the next kid. And if I know that the jackpot's been given out, which I did one year because a kid won, they got to the edge of my property, they opened it, they start jumping up and down and they're thanking me because they had won the big jackpot. I still have all the other kids coming and I want this to be an experiment and I want them to learn the lessons, but I don't want to feel like a monster on Halloween. I took your candy and I get.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Going home and be handed.

[Chuck Jaffe]

And I knew you would get nothing.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Right?

[Chuck Jaffe]

Like, that's the worst. But this year, if you want, you can open those envelopes in the big lottery option in front of us, and if you lose, we'll give you a second chance lottery. The second chance lottery, you're going to give us five more pieces of candy. But because it's the second chance, the jackpot is only worth 20 bucks. So you're actually spending the same amount of money for even less of a reward, which we hope will give you the. Did you have twice as much fun? Because if you didn't have twice as much fun, there's a valuable lesson there, which is, although I've never bought a lottery ticket myself, I understand it, and I think there's real value in playing what if games around the lottery. I think that is a wonderful thing that you can do. When the lottery jackpot gets bigger, have a conversation, even if you're not in it, about what you would do and how you would prioritize things and then cut it down, go, oh, I didn't win a billion dollars. What would happen if I won a million dollars? What would happen if I won 100,000? What would happen if I won 10,000? Because a $10,000 windfall is very reasonable in a lot of people's lives. How would you prioritize what you're doing? So I don't mind lotteries, but the idea that, like, oh, I bought 10 tickets. Did you get 10 times the enjoyment? Did you get 10 times the what if value? Did you get? No, you pretty much didn't. So the result of that is I'm hoping we're going to teach that lesson, but I don't know, because it might teach them, hey, gamble, take another chance, even though it's a stupid chance, and. And maybe you can can come out somehow ahead.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

But the math lesson here, too, which I like because I think for kids, they might not get that I spent double the amount of candy, which means that the prize is worth less, but also by diminishing the prize level, I think it drives that part home. Every dollar you throw in this, the prize is worth less money.

[Chuck Jaffe]

That's correct. So that's my twist for this year is second chance lottery, which means I'm taking more candy from babies, but only.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

The ones that say that they want to play now. And by the way, to set this up to everybody, if you're brand new to this segment of the show, we should go back to some basics here. Chuck, you also have a piece of paper that you send them home with that kind of explains things so parents can be on board with it. And this is great stackers. If you're going to do this, if you're going to emulate Chuck's game here. This piece of paper I think helps drive it home.

[Chuck Jaffe]

And in fact the piece of paper is essential for two reasons. One is that yes, you hope when the kids would take it home that they will find it and they get it. Even if they're making the small trade, you get the small envelope, et cetera. Because every envelope, the good thing about the paper is the paper helps make it more difficult for a kid to figure out what's in the envelope. As they're looking, they're looking for. Is the envelope bigger? Trust me, kids will game any system you have, try to figure it all out, et cetera. And we've had to go to some great lengths to try to make sure that kids are and, and mind you, the lengths we go to, every one of those envelopes that has that you're trading two pieces of candy for has a coin in it, right? But that coin is going to be a quarter, a half dollar or a one dollar coin. So the eight dollar jackpot is a one dollar coin, a five dollar bill and a two dollar bill. And that way it isn't much bigger than something that has $3 and 50 cents in it, which is a two dollar bill, a $1 bill and a half dollar. And it doesn't feel that much different from something that has a $1 coin in it. That's what we're trying to do to make it that if somebody's touching them, they don't quite know, they can't figure it out, etc. So yeah, we have to do some of those things. And the second chance lottery will have a bigger piece of paper in it which will have that much more of an explanation of what happens. If you played the Second chance and the second chance you cannot open in front of us, you're going to take.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It and go and you're gone. So you don't know that one.

[Chuck Jaffe]

We did have kids last year who gaslighted us into thinking that they had won the jackpot. They literally went away from us. We heard them celebrating when they came back because I live on a cul de sac, so they passed me coming in and then they walked by on the way out. When they walked by on the way out, they were like celebrating. We thought it had been won and then we opened up the envelopes and nope, we still had our money.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

What's interesting is I love the risk reward continuum here, Chuck. Clearly, the trade that is the, the safest trade is still the dollar of the candy bar, right? I mean, either side of that trade is still, I'm coming home with something, so I'm good either way there, no matter what I do. Although you look at the currency of the candy, the candy being worth more monetarily, but. But on this particular day, I have a whole damn bag of that, and I don't have a ready market to move that into money. So for that reason, the dollar bill might resonate more. So there's that on the safety end, but on the other, the lottery end, you've got a whole different, you know, thing going on. I'm wondering, proportionally, last year, what proportion of the kids, because in all of these, you're playing with house money, right? You totally, truly, they're risking. Not different than when we're investing. How many kids go crazy and do the lottery versus the kids that decide they want the safe bet?

[Chuck Jaffe]

What.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

How does that work out proportionally?

[Chuck Jaffe]

Well, it. It does change a little bit by year because I've done things. I've done things where the lottery was a better proposition. I've done things where the lottery is a worse proposition. I like that it's now a dollar, you know, is the average envelope. So it, it kind of works out that way. It still is the biggest choice because. And it makes sense that it would be not entirely from a risk perspective, but again, because the, the candy as currency is cheap to them and the chance that they could win 25 bucks, which does. Especially as the kids get up to fifth, sixth, seventh grade, it starts to mean more to them. Like, they recognize that, like, winning 25 bucks would be a big deal.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

So that coupled with the novelty factor of, hey, I'm not getting this. At every other house, the Jaffe house is the party house.

[Chuck Jaffe]

It's a lot of fun. I mean, the kids know what's coming. The kids who have been in the neighborhood know what's coming. And we live in a neighborhood that there's no through streets like, you come in off of the. The main drag, and everything ends in a cul de sac. And by the way, with Halloween being on a Friday night this year, I am super excited because it'll be great. And I live my cul de sac. Pretty much everybody does the nines. Like, they're all the way dressed up. There's all kinds of lights and moving, whatever, and all these other sorts of things. So it's a lot of fun.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It's funny, we're having some work done at our house and so I'm in this Airbnb duplex right now, but it's on this street that's known for big time Halloween and Cheryl's like, do you want to do this? I'm like, it's our one year that we get to do a huge Halloween party. Like let's take part in it. It's going to be fun. So I don't know. It's an opportunity for me. I love the Nestle crunch, but the KitKat is where it's at.

[Chuck Jaffe]

I gotta say Kit Kat, you know, the answer is only, are you going to spend up for that? I think like I said, if you're for the people who don't get a lot of trick or treaters, the right way to do it rather than buying the frustrating size, buy the full size bars and then, you know, you can offer the cash as an option.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That's what we do generally is the full size bars. I haven't done the game. I need to do the game this year. With all the craziness in my life, I probably won't do the game. But I need to take, I need to do the game. I think the game is as much fun for me as it clearly is for the kids. I think it's as fun for you as it is for the kids. So I got to get down with the game this year though. I expect to have based on hanging out with people that have lived in this area. Trick or treaters in the hundreds. Hundreds of trick or treaters. So I doubt I'm doing full size candy bars.

[Chuck Jaffe]

Yeah, people have asked me about the money. Look, I do spend a little bit more. It's also because I write about it, I talk about it, etc, it's a tax deduction for me if I really want to take it. Which is just kind of wild when you think about that too.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Any of that tax deduction accidentally end up in your stomach? Accidentally, you know, oops, I can't believe it.

[Chuck Jaffe]

Well, I accidentally, I can't. I, I don't know that I'm allowed to feed them candy that I haven't tested myself.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I think that's fair. You can't have that stuff going out willy nilly.

[Chuck Jaffe]

And once Halloween is over, I mean it might be that that candy gets thrown out. That's a possibility, at least in terms of the irs. I'm not keeping it for a full year because then it wouldn't be good the following year. So whatever does not get used For Halloween is still a tax deduction.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Fair point. No, no, it still is part of the office. As you're doing the Money Life show, you have to keep the sugar level up. I mean, it's hashtag science, Chuck.

[Chuck Jaffe]

But I, I really do encourage this and like I said, if you don't do this or you're out with your kids again, if you're going to take a little bit of your kids candy, as much as it's a joke or whatever, do it with something. If your kids come back with sacks of candy, find there, there are charities you can donate it to. You can send it to places like orthodontists, collect it and send it to the troops. Things along those lines. You know what, it's a really good thing to do. And then put the money lesson in with, hey, we'd like to donate this. So which ones? You know, I, I will give you value for some of your candy. It's not a bad lesson to teach. You can get by with some candy. You don't need all of this candy. Place a value on which ones you, you like the most. You don't want to give those up. Place a value on those you like the least. I'd be perfectly happy if everybody took my whatever it is because I'm not going to eat them anyway. Great. What kind of value can you get? And maybe that value again is just in giving it away. This has no value to you, but let's give it away and teach that kind of frugality where, you know, translate it to being an adult and you're on a buy nothing group on a Facebook page going, hey, I don't need this motor oil that I found and somebody else is saving a couple of bucks and you're just being a good citizen, a good neighbor.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Not only will you hear stackers, the results of what happened after Halloween on the Money Life show with Chuck Jaffe, but there's a festival going on, I swear, every day on the Money Life Show. What's coming up, Chuck, besides after Halloween, we're going to hear the results of the game.

[Chuck Jaffe]

We have a segment on the show that we call the Money Life Market call where we talk with money managers about how they do their job, what they're picking, etc, and we don't talk politics on my show, but we do have one coming where we are talking to somebody who runs the maga fund and somebody who runs the Dems fund on like day after each other. And the interesting thing is it's just about the methodology and what you're going to find out is that the methodologies are very similar. It's just, you know, you're sort of looking at research and in one case going, okay, I'll lean left or I'll lean right. That's an interesting one that's coming. We've got some great guests. Rob Arnott from Research Affiliates has done a tremendous amount of research about how maybe the indexes we have are not truly reflective of everything that's going on. We talk with him about that, all kinds of things. Oh, and, and Richard Thaler has a new book out. The Nobel prize winning behavioral economist has a new book out with Alex Imus. And we'll be talking about that on the show every day. There's something great to talk about.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, I wish there was something going on. If only you had something going on, Chuck, it would be perfect.

[Chuck Jaffe]

Yes. But for you, Joe, I am the Halloween money monster.

[Doug]

Hey there, Stackers. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and here's a Halloween week birthday for you. Way back in 1958, Simon Le Bon, lead singer of the classic and 80s band Duran Duran, was born. Duran Duran, of course, is known for their hit Hungry like the Wolf and other finger tappers. Sometimes I tap my fingers really hard in that song. More like Finger Bangers, actually. Sometimes I try to tap my fingers to the music on OG's back. Just, just banging OG. I love rhythm. Joe's mom told me once that my rhythm is so good I should take it out and twerk in the streets. But what she really said was, get that dancing out of my house. So we all know what she was insinuating, don't we? It's fun to dance on the speed bump. I got those legs moving all crazy like Michael Jackson's Thriller video out in that hump. I went from finger banging to humping something I thought was cool, but apparently the Texarkana cops didn't feel as passionate about. But enough about me. Since we're talking Hungry like the Wolf, let's talk about wolves who have a close tie with Halloween serial killer Peter Stumppe. Two P's on that Peter Stump. Stump was execute. Stump was executed in 1589 after being accused of being what type of wolf spawning a whole genre of classic horror. I'll be back right after I figure out if twerking really is a, quote, crime against humanity. As Sergeant Slatterly down at the police station said, I object.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Slatterly.

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[Joe Saul-Sehy]

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[Joe Saul-Sehy]

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[Joe Saul-Sehy]

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[OG]

But I found a better way. Stitch Fix Online Personal styling makes it easy. I just give my stylist my size, style and budget preferences. I order boxes when I want and how I want. No subscription required.

[Chuck Jaffe]

And and he sends just for me.

[OG]

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[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It's so easy.

[Chuck Jaffe]

Make style easy.

[OG]

Get started [e-mail] Spotify that's stitchfix.com Spotify.

[Doug]

Hey, Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now I don't know if you've heard, but Mint's Premium Wireless is $15 a month. But I'd like to offer one other perk. We have no stores. That means no small talk. Crazy weather we're having. No, it's not. It's just weather. It is an introvert's dream. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment.

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[Doug]

Hey there stackers. I'm Halloween twerker and guy who's apparently gonna have to go back to just finger banging his favorite songs. Joe's mom's neighbor Doug. To celebrate, Simon Le Bond from Duran Duran's birthday today and the fact that we're kicking off Halloween week. We're talking wolves. And one in particular, Peter Stumpp, was accused of being a type of wolf associated with Halloween and suffered the death penalty for it. What type of wolf was it? Well, if you said werewolf. Oh, now I see what that. That's werewolf. I got it. If you said werewolf, you might have just answered my easiest trivia question of the year. And speaking of easy, but definitely not on the eyes. Back to Joe and OG.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Hi, I'm David Stein. When I'm not talking to other people.

[Chuck Jaffe]

People about money on money.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

For the rest of us, I'm stacking Benjamin Werewolves in the news. Simon Le Bon. You're a big Duran Duran fan, aren't you?

[Chuck Jaffe]

OG yeah, yes, of course.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I think you gotta be, Doug. You are.

[Doug]

I was. I mean, at the time I wasn't actually. No. They were a little too poppy for me at the time. But I have come to appreciate their music.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I actually like the music they made in the 1990s, like come undone. You know, the later songs after everybody thought they were washed up and.

[Doug]

No, because they were.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

They weren't. That song might have sold more copies than any song, but Hungry like the Wolf. Wow. It's good stuff. Speaking of good stuff, thanks again to Chuck Jaffe. OG at your house. What game do you play at trick or treat day?

[OG]

My favorite game to play after Halloween. Although, to be fair, the boys are well past trick or treating. Now it's just Caroline. But when they were younger, we played the game of let's see how taxes affect your candy consumption. And it's like, well, here's your money candy, and here's the tax man's candy. The tax guy always gets first dibs of all the good stuff, like the full size Reese's and the full size Milky Ways and all the good candy. And then you get left. You get what's left over. That's. That's the game that I play.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

We used to always play what it would be like living in a high taxation state.

[Chuck Jaffe]

Yeah.

[OG]

So same thing.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Three for the tax man, one for the.

[Doug]

Welcome to New York, kids. We have peanut allergies in our house. My kids had peanut allergies, so we had a little different. It wasn't taxation, but it was just extra cautious parenting. When I would grab a Starburst out of their bag or something like, you know, Twizzler.

[OG]

Just double check, make sure it's clean.

[Doug]

Yeah, dad, that there's no peanuts in there. But it was sitting next to the.

[OG]

Snickers bar thin, so cross contamination. That is the thing. Never.

[Doug]

You can't be too safe to say.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You don't know what could have happened at the Kroger before you picked it.

[Doug]

Test this one, and if it's, you know, then you can have the rest of them.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Smart move. Smart parenting, Doug.

[Doug]

Good parenting. Solid is.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

We had some stackers who sent in their Halloween alicious stories, and they brought them. Today we've got four of your biggest money horror stories. And Doug's gonna do dramatic readings for us. And I think our first dramatic. Do you need a second to get into character, Doug? Okay, what's my motivation?

[Doug]

Yes.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

But our first one comes to us from Luis.

[Doug]

He wrote a little novelette, didn't he?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, this is scary.

[Doug]

Okay, here we go, Luis. I used to tell myself I had plenty of time. Retirement felt like some distant chapter. Something I'd wor about once I had more money. So I waited. And waited. A few missed contributions didn't seem like a big deal. A vacation here, a new phone there. I told myself I'll start next year. But now, as I approach my 40s, I can feel it. The years that have slipped away. And lately I've been having these dreams. Soft, eerie piano fades in. In them, I'm back in my twenties, sitting at my laptop. The words Open, Roth, IRA glow on the screen. But every time I reach to click in my hand, it freezes. And I hear it. That song. That incessant song. Cue eerie children's chant echoing like a nightmare. One, two, Freddy's timing you. Three, four, you're saving no more. Five, six, your budget won't stick. Seven, eight, your nest egg's too late. Nine, ten, he's here again. Metal scrape. Freddy's glove dragging across steel. That's when I see him. Freddy A Kruger. He doesn't chase, he collects. Every bad decision I make accrues to him every year. I didn't invest, he took what I didn't earn. Every raise I didn't save, he stored away for himself. Every. I'll start next year. Another deposit in his account. He doesn't need claws or fire. Just silence in action. Ticking grows louder, distorted faint whispers of one, two, overlapping. I try to wake up. I try to wake up. But the clock keeps ticking. And I swear, every time I close my eyes. Pause.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Silence.

[Doug]

Then the faint children's chant begins to creep back in. One, two, Freddy's timing you. Three, four, you're saving no more. Freddy R. Krueger is back. Maybe my finest work. I mean, do we need any more to this episode?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Who needs Doug and the three ghosts this year? We don't need that. We got our new. Maybe we should produce this one. You know, do the production sound effects. Nice job, by the way. Nice job, Luis, on that one. Freddy Krueger. And by the way, in our basement Facebook group, he's got like this mix of Ben Franklin and Freddy Krueger. Oh, gee, like, all mixed into one. So very scary. Very, very scary. The rest of these tales are a little more personal. Jennifer has one that, well, for all of you of a certain age and remember the pain in the ass of changing your direct deposit, which I think has gotten significantly easier now. But Jennifer. Well, Doug, take it away with Jennifer's tale of credit union. Whoa.

[Doug]

Jennifer writes, I started a new job and decided to join their credit union. So I switched all my bank Stuff to the credit union. It was a long time ago, so I don't think we had direct deposit. I deposited my boyfriend's paycheck and it took like two weeks to cash. So I overdrew my brand new account. They froze everything and it was a friggin nightmare on my street.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Another Freddy Krueger reference. I think our stackers have a theme here.

[Doug]

It was a frigging nightmare on my street. I like that.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I recently had to transfer a bunch of money from one account to another and PayPal held it up for, I'm gonna say 10 days. OG is that even legal?

[OG]

Why would you use PayPal to transfer money from one account to another?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It was a long story. Long, long, long, long.

[OG]

That's why then. Because you use the most inefficient way of transferring money. Let me put it in this other thing.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It would have been a way better idea to just go pony express.

[OG]

Just get Hyundai's, man, that's the way to roll. Just stacks of cash.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Stacks and stacks of Benjamins. Let's move on to Cesar who has. Well, we all have gotten bad advice from co workers before, but Cesar's might be.

[OG]

I get bad advice from you idiots every week.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yes, these are might be the worst.

[Doug]

At my first job in high school, I was taught a valuable financial hack by a co worker. She told me as soon as I get paid, I should immediately withdraw my entire paycheck and then fill up my gas tank with my empty bank account since they would allow the overdraft. I'm still haunted to this day when wondering where this coworker has ended up in life.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I hate to admit this, but back in my terrible with money days, I remember OG playing the oh, that check's not going to clear for three days game.

[OG]

Yeah, I mean, that's not a thing anymore, right? Kiting checks. It used to be. I mean it was, it was a whole game in and of itself.

[Doug]

I haven't heard that phrase in a long time.

[OG]

Yeah, because it's not a thing. Because check 21 screwed that all up and made. Made checks come out right away.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

So I just. Oh. Which is the way it should be.

[OG]

Obviously if you don't have the money, don't write a check. But you used to be able to like write a check on Thursday for groceries and be like. And I get paid on Friday though. So it's gonna be. It'll be okay.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It'll be good. It'll be fine.

[OG]

By the time all the dust settles, everything will work itself.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And then for God knows what reason it wouldn't be. And then I would.

[OG]

I get. I mean, the reason was because people were doing, I will gladly pay you for two cheeseburgers tomorrow, for one cheeseburger today.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That's why. No, I'm saying I would go on Thursday. No, it's going to be good, it'll be fine. And then that check, for God, what reason then would bounce, Then the next one would bounce, then the next one.

[OG]

Bounce because you forgot the checks Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday that you also wrote, write them down in your little check register.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Remember that $30 overdraft fee would trigger another bounce that I hadn't expected. And it was such an amazing experience. It was living the ugly, ugly, ugly life back then. When I read Caesars originally and Doug, even now while you're going through it, I just think about how many times have you seen all this bad advice from co workers people have brought into your office? Oh gee, or dirt or Doug known bad advice from coworkers. I mean, the 401k loan. How many times have you had a coworker go, oh, it's, you're borrowing from yourself. Don't take a loan for the bank, what are you doing? Just borrow from yourself. Oh gee, it's going to be great.

[OG]

I mean, at the end of the day, it is your money and if you need to have it for some reason, you can have it. But the like, the least efficient place is going to be to take it from your 401k. Maybe it's a smidge more efficient than credit cards, but when you think about it, after you add the fact that you're paying back with after tax money and you're paying an interest rate, albeit to yourself, and the fact that you're losing out on the potential growth of that money for that loan, period, that adds up to be a lot of opportunity cost wasted. And I know it seems simple like, well, I just take 50 grand out and I'm going to pay myself back over five years. That's $800 a month and it'll be a little interest, but I'm paying the interest to myself. I take 50 out, I put back 55, but I'm the beneficiary of that 55. So that's a good deal. But you have to think through the other pieces of that, which are that 50 is not in the market for five years as you're paying that loan back, or 10 if you borrow for the house and then you're paying it back with after tax money. So it's not really awesome. No, look, I think I'd probably rather you use that money than.

[Chuck Jaffe]

How do we say it is.

[OG]

Is it better to use that than to go into like credit card debt? Probably.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I don't know. I would really, I would really want.

[OG]

To know, like, what the problem is, you know, and is there another way out?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Here's the problem. I was saw when people would take a 401k loan versus the credit card debt. It's because they know that the credit card debt is ugly, so they avoid it. But then they get in the habit of borrowing against their retirement over and over and over because, oh, this is, quote, so much better.

[OG]

Well, no, it's like a home equity loan on your house sounds cool at first because it's your money, but then you just have a longer mortgage.

[Doug]

Right?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Just keep digging into it. Digging into it.

[OG]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You know, there's another one that I don't see as much anymore, but I used to see all the time, which was, why would you let these mutual funds rip you off? You know that the company we work at, look at how this stock goes. Just put all your money in the stock of the company that you work at. And, and because we work here, we can follow it all the time. I would get clients in my office all the time that were like, oh, I just follow our stock and I know when it's going up and I know when it's going to go down. And I do that. And then I would go do the homework for them just to prove that they were wasting so much time. And if they just bought an index fund, they would have done way better. It felt like they were doing great because they're, I don't know, standing with their hand on the trigger all the time, if you know what I mean.

[OG]

Standing with your hand.

[Doug]

We're all thinking it. You said it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Sometimes the analogy doesn't flow off my tongue the way I, I like.

[OG]

I'm going to start using that one from now on. Well, you know Bob, he was standing there with his hand on the trigger.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, we got to pivot away from this very quickly. Stacker. Annette has the last but not least story of money horror. I think we've all done this one where we come up with a brilliant scheme and it might not go the way you hoped it would have.

[Doug]

We've outsmarted ourselves seven days before our cross country move.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That's Washington to Pennsylvania.

[Doug]

Oh, that's not a, that's not a sound effect in parentheses. Wapa. Sorry. Annette moved from Washington to Pennsylvania. But I Like better. We had a brilliant plan to save money, Sell our small pickup, buy a bigger used truck and trailer on Facebook.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Haul.

[Doug]

I don't even know what this accent is anymore. Haul everything ourselves and sell it all. When we arrived, a move with zero transport costs. Genius, right? The truck bought, the trailer, ghosted, never showed. Scrambling, we rented the largest trailer available. Here's the chilling twist. Our original truck could have towed it, but nay, I added that. We limped to Pennsylvania, wallet bleeding from repairs, sold the truck for way less than expected. Our money saving plan turned out to be the most expensive idea we'd ever had.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I want to get to the expensive idea, but do you think Og in the middle of her Academy Award winning scenes, Natalie goes, I'm adding a little extra crying here, A little flair. I'm gonna, I'm gonna ad lib a little bit. Like right in the middle of your favorite movie. I added that.

[Doug]

It's just a little bonus. I bring it to you, no charge.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

What's the ballet one? Black Swan. I added that extra tier. She looks right at the camera. That extra tier, not in the script. Brilliant. I just love how you gotta stop and tell us all. I added that Annette didn't write.

[Doug]

I want you to know what's my brilliance and which brilliance is Annette's Audience deserves to know.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I can't tell you how many times I've had a money saving plan that went awry like this. I remember this one actually worked out fine. Our family was headed to Yellowstone and we were going to make several stops along the way. So we decided to rent a car. When I looked at all the rental prices, it was way, way, way less expensive to go through Enterprise. And so I pull into Enterprise, I take all the stuff that we're taking on vacation, all the camping equipment, and I put it all out on our in our driveway. And then I go to Enterprise. I've Cheryl dropped me off there on her way in into work. She's going to work half a day while I get the car packed. I walk in and I'm signing all the stuff. And it says in the contract, you will not drive this car outside of Michigan, Indiana or Ohio. And I'm going all the way to Yellowstone. It's the day of, so I signed the thing and oh my goodness, talk about just a trip where every time my kids got anywhere near the car, like I parked way far away from everything else. And on the way back, on the way back, I'm like, oh my God, how am I gonna explain all this mileage we Went to. We went to Wyoming and Montana and back. So I came up with this crazy concocted story that we were. I was helping my brother move to the Upper Peninsula and I had to make five trips to the. To the.

[Doug]

Up to Houghton. You moved to Eagle Harbor?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, my God.

[Chuck Jaffe]

It was.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It was the worst. It was the worst.

[Doug]

This logic reminds me basically of every power tool I've ever bought because you always say to yourself, oh, I need this great angle grinder or this chop saw because I'll save all this money and all the projects down the road. You do the one project and the thing sits there collecting dust.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It's like it's free. Right in your head. You're like, this is going to be free. What do they call? Originally it was girl math and now it's power tool math.

[Doug]

Yeah, that the guy math has been around a lot longer. I think we just didn't put a name to it. I know guys who've done this with wood. Wood splitters. Oh, I'll just make my own firewood. So that's going to be cheaper. A cord of fire, depending on where you live. This is, you know, but 100 bucks max. 60 in some more rural areas.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. This guy Moses delivers it to me for not much money.

[Doug]

Sometimes they'll stack it for you and the splitter is a couple of grand.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

So I go help him. I don't get a discount, but I just don't like watching the dude stack my wood while I sit there standing next to him. But you know, you're standing there with a cup of coffee while some dudes do a manual labor.

[Doug]

Yes.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, this is great. Worst like. Nope, not.

[OG]

That looks heavy.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah.

[OG]

Wow.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Are you sweating? It'd be horrible. Thank you, stackers for contributing to our Halloween goodness. If you've got a tale of horror, please either call it in stacky benjamin.com voicemail or go join our Facebook group and tell us your tale of money horror. Good week to do that. Time for us to mosey out on the back porch. And we've had some good ones this week, Doug. This last week in October. Next week the guides get updated so we'll have all of that stacking. Benjamins.com guides for everybody that owns the guides. The new updates are looking good. Can't wait to tell you about those. But we're going to wait. We always like to make them a surprise. But I guess what are we leading off here with, Doug? Brian Stacker.

[Doug]

Brian left us this in the basement. He says he's and he man he is bringing ninja dad puns.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

So Ninja Doug has no idea what this.

[Doug]

No, I don't. I'm going to just read this because I know you love this, Joe. I'm going to read it and we'll see, you know, if anybody else can figure out the puzzle. He says, I'm going to make my Christmas decorations out of hundred dollar bills. Then I'll have a wreath of Franklin's. Just got it. I just got it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You got to say it out loud.

[Doug]

I want to see if OG gets it.

[OG]

Yeah, of course I got it.

[Doug]

Of course I got it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Of course.

[Doug]

I'm just waiting to see if you get it. Then I'll have Aretha Franklin.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Aretha Franklin. So good. Brian wrote that. And it took me 10 minutes. And I noticed because I think a lot of people saw it and didn't get it. Brian. Like, I think Facebook showed it to maybe 150 people. It didn't show it to me till it had been there for five days. And it's. It's our freaking basement and it didn't show me. And I see this thing and I'm like, what? Hold on. And then, oh my God, when it hit, it hit. Nice job, Brian.

[Doug]

Then you finally gave it some respect. See what I did there? All right, let's move on to Derek. Derek's submission. He says, hi, Joe, Just listened to your show today, how to deliver the wow. And wanted to reply to your after interview topic. Thank you for mentioning that if your 401k doesn't offer the Roth option so you can't catch up, you can always open a brokerage account. I get so annoyed with the baseline assumption that people can't save unless their employer provides X, Y and Z for them. Come on, people, take some responsibility. And then Derek adds, I look forward to meeting you at 2026 in April.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I didn't know that was out yet, Doug. But I will be seeing Derek and others at the millionaire money mentors. 2026, April 23rd to the 26th in Florida. Be my first trip to the Villages. OG I think you get to last, get to a certain age. They start inviting you to the. To the villages.

[Doug]

And then slowly you're like, this place is awesome. Everybody's smoking dope all the time.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Is that what the village is known for? I don't know.

[Doug]

Oh my God, yes. Dude, the sex is off the hook in that place too.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I've heard not. I don't know. Should I have said no to this deal? This is sounding.

[Doug]

I don't think you were Prepared for the hedonism at the villages when they invited me.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It says it's designed to be family friendly, but that may be family. Really friendly. I don't know. It's going to be a lot of fun. But seriously. Oh, gee, how many times have we talked about this? And Derek, thanks for the kind words, but we always talk about these government programs. There's no need to wait for a government program to do the right thing in your financial plan.

[Doug]

Just.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Just the thing don't go well. But I. I can't save more because I. I'm saving the max that the government says I can save.

[OG]

Yeah, I mean, if the government says the max that you can save is $23,500, but your plan says you need to save 25,000. If I were you, I'd save 25. I figure out where to put that other 1500 bucks, you know, don't want to be broke.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It was interesting, Derek. Clients would often, when I was an advisor, come into my office, worried about the economy, the stuff happening with the Federal Reserve, things happening with the government. They get off on all this stuff. And I'd open up the plan to the back and I'd say, okay, based on your plan, we need to be at X amount of money. Let's see if you're a header behind. And immediately when we took it away from what the Fed was doing, what the government was doing, and we looked instead at what you were doing and. Or not doing, all of a sudden we were dealing with stuff under our control. And it was such. Such a better financial plan, such a better way to attack financial planning. Focus your time on the stuff that you can control. Good stuff.

[Doug]

Got one more, Joe. Ah, yeah. Carrie Underwood actually sent us something on the Facebook. Carrie Underwood, Big fan of the show. Carrie says Joe tells Uranus joke. My husband. What? Are you listening to me? This is where I get all our financial advice. It seems reasonable.

[OG]

Fun fact about Carrie Underwood, you know she does the Sunday Night Football commercial or kind of lead in, whatever you.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Want to call it.

[Doug]

The lead in.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah.

[OG]

There are 18 Sunday night football games. How much is her contract?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

$18.

[OG]

No, incorrect.

[Doug]

No, I actually think it's like 18 million. Because doesn't she sing a slightly different.

[OG]

Million dollars a week? Yeah, you got it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I've heard.

[Doug]

I don't pay attention closely to it.

[OG]

Put that little, you know, it's the Lions and Tampa on Monday night or whatever.

[Doug]

Like that little bit. A little bit.

[OG]

You know, just.

[Doug]

And that makes it a new song.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I don't know that I could stoop to doing a million dollars an episode.

[OG]

Poor people talk. I got that. But I'm just saying, could you imagine having to do this for only a million an episode.

[Doug]

Gross?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Thank you Stackers for all the fun this week. Thanks for lending us your ears. Coming up on Wednesday, we're going to talk about communication, whether it's with your roommate, your friends, your loved ones, your spouse. Doug and Heather Bonaparte are here. Doug Bonaparte of the Big hair Doug Bonaparte joining us in in the basement. He's a certified financial planner in Manhattan known for his wittisms that are on Twitter or X I guess we call it. The kids all call it X these days. Now, Doug Bonaparte and Heather Bonaparte coming down to the basement to talk about the horrors of bad communication. And in your financial plan, that's on Wednesday. But we end this show every day the same, which is by for some reason we asked Doug Doug, what are our big takeaways today?

[Doug]

If there's anybody who can take all of this knowledge and distill it down, it's me. So here we go. Joe, what should we have learned today? First, take some advice from Chuck Jaffe. Lean into your holidays. Every day is a great day to teach kids about money. But when you can combine a holiday and a money lesson, kids will be listening and ready to play along. Second, framing your financial picture as a horror story. Begin by working on your foundation emergency fund. First, budget to create cash flow, see if you can earn more and set up automation. Soon you'll be stacking those Benjamins tall and look under the bed. But the big last, don't try to joke with Sergeant Slattery of the Texarkana Police Department about Duran Duran. How's I supposed to know? He had all the Simon Le Bon posters in his room. Every one of them. I'll bet that guy finger bangs all the Duran Duran songs. Thanks to Chuck Jaffe for sharing this year's Halloween Money game. You'll find Chuck's money life with, wait for it, Chuck Jaffe. Also, wherever you're listening to us right now, what money games are you going to play at Halloween? Let us know, drop us a line at the website or share on Spotify. We'd love to hear how you teach and celebrate. This show is the property of SP Podcasts, LLC, Copyright 2025 and is created by Josal Sehive. Joe gets help from a few of our neighborhoods friends. You'll find out about our awesome [e-mail] along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, yeah.

[Doug]

And before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don't take advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial financial advisor. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and we'll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Sam, welcome to the after show. Hey, I've got this piece from navigator research.org which candy is America's favorite Halloween candy? Not the one that they give out the most or they eat the most of.

[OG]

Snickers.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Snickers is number two on this list.

[Doug]

So you're saying this isn't data driven? This isn't like, how much is purchased or.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

No, they just ask people. They ask people what's their favorite.

[Doug]

Oh, yeah, that's different because I think the number one by data is KitKat.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

KitKat is number four according to Hershey bar. People's Hershey bar didn't even make the top 10. I think it's.

[Doug]

I think it's.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

No, wait a minute.

[Doug]

Peanut butter cups.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, it says chocolate bar, so that would include Hershey. I suppose so. Snickers is 11%, KitKat at 8, Chocolate Bar 6, and Doug Reese's Peanut Butter Cups, 29% number one easily. Number one. Number two was Snickers at 11.

[Doug]

I think Reese's has really figured out the right.

[OG]

The guy's name is Reese and it's his.

[Doug]

It's Reese's.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Reese's.

[OG]

God, you people are incorrigible. I'm gonna go get more coffee. You can do this. Dumb. To end the.