← The Stacking Benjamins Show
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- [00:00]
Joe Saul-Sehy
This episode is brought to you by Navy Federal Credit Union. Navy Federal Our mission is to help members of the military, veterans and their families achieve their financial goals. That's why we offer great savings and investing options like our certificates. Certificates come with sky high rates and some even have the flexibility to add money anytime during your term. Whether you're saving for a home, a new car or your future, our options could help you get there. And certificates are just the beginning. Navy Federal also provides financial advisor to help you manage your investment portfolio along with online tools to guide your savings plan. With our support, you'll have everything you need to take charge of your finances. So don't wait. The sooner you start building your financial future with Navy Federal savings and investing options, the better off you could be in the long run. Sign up@navy federal.org Navy Federal Credit Union Our members are the mission Savings products insured by NCUA Investment products are not insured, not obligations of Navy Federal and may lose value. Small Business Owners State Farm's there with small business insurance to fit your specific needs. Whether you're starting a new venture or growing an existing one, State Farm helps you choose the right coverage to protect what matters most. Working with a local State Farm agent helps you understand your coverage options, offering local support to help you achieve your goals. Focus on turning your passion into a thriving business, knowing your insurance can change as your business grows. Stay Farm here to help you succeed with your business like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. Oh, my goodness. It's Monday morning. And you gentlemen know what we do on Monday morning?
- [01:37]
OG
Sleep in.
- [01:39]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Well, besides that.
- [01:40]
Doug
Have seven eggs.
- [01:41]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Complain Besides that. We salute the troops. Well, we do all that. Yes, and we salute the troops. So raise your mugs, gents, because it is Monday in America and across the world. And you know what that means. On behalf of the men and women at Navy Federal Credit Union. Who gave OG that damn big mug? Look at that big mug. He's got a big coffee cup, too.
- [02:02]
Doug
Did your mug grow?
- [02:04]
OG
No.
- [02:04]
Doug
It looks longer than it used to be.
- [02:06]
OG
Oh, same size.
- [02:08]
Joe Saul-Sehy
On behalf of the men and women making podcasts in Mama's basement and the men and women at Navy Federal Credit Union, here's to our troops. Thank you for all you do. Let's all go stack some Benjamins together, shall we? Bring out your date.
- [02:28]
Benjamin Brandt
Not dead. What?
- [02:29]
Doug
Nothing.
- [02:30]
Benjamin Brandt
Use your ninepence.
- [02:31]
Joe Saul-Sehy
I'm not dead Here.
- [02:33]
Benjamin Brandt
He says he's not dead. Yes, he is.
- [02:35]
Joe Saul-Sehy
I'm not.
- [02:36]
Benjamin Brandt
He isn't well.
- [02:37]
OG
He will be soon.
- [02:37]
Benjamin Brandt
He's very ill.
- [02:38]
Joe Saul-Sehy
I'M getting better.
- [02:39]
Benjamin Brandt
No, you're not. You'll be stone dead in a moment. I can't take him like that. It's against regulations.
- [02:49]
Doug
Live from Joe's mom's basement, it's the Stacking Benjamin Show.
- [02:59]
Benjamin Brandt
Foreign.
- [03:05]
Doug
Doug and have you been planning retirement all wrong this whole time? I mean, who knew? Well, this guy did. We're adjusting our sights on a more fulfilling and exciting retirement vision with today's mentor, certified financial planner Benjamin Brandt. Plus, in our headline, do you trust your financial pros? We dive into a new study on the topic with some surprising findings. And don't you worry, because even if a more successful retirement or better financial help doesn't make you feel all tingly in your nether regions, you can always rely on my amazing trivia to pull you through.
- [03:43]
Joe Saul-Sehy
What?
- [03:45]
Doug
Sometimes it happens. And now, two guys who are surprisingly spry for their age. I mean, this early on a Monday. It's Jo and. Oh, jj.
- [03:57]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Jj. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the let's make it awkward podcast. I'm Joe Salsi. Hi. Average Joe. Money on. On the Twitter, the X. Although I'm never there anymore, you can find me all over social media. It's good stuff. How are you gentlemen this morning?
- [04:16]
Doug
I'm feeling kind of tingly in another region's friendly OG so. What?
- [04:21]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Why OG how are you doing today?
- [04:23]
Doug
Just saying my feet itch.
- [04:25]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Yeah, I do. By the way, I get the winter, like just dry skin thing. Drives me crazy. It's horrible.
- [04:32]
OG
Lotions for.
- [04:33]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Yes.
- [04:34]
OG
Ocean. Maybe take a bath every so often.
- [04:36]
Doug
Oh, no, it's not Tuesday.
- [04:41]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Hard pass on that, my friend. Hard pass on that. You know, it's great guys. We've a fantastic show today. I read about 50 books a year getting ready for guests to come on the show. This gentleman, Benjamin Brandt, I thought I knew where he was going with this analogy. He's going to talk about today. That retirement OG begins today. I thought he knew I knew where he was going. I had no idea. I had no idea. So this is going to be just a huge, huge, huge lesson for all of our stackers out there.
- [05:10]
OG
Ben Brandt. Good dude. Yes, good dude.
- [05:12]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Very good people.
- [05:12]
OG
Dude. He's a dude of the people.
- [05:14]
Joe Saul-Sehy
He is a dude.
- [05:15]
OG
Dude abides. He's kind of like the dude.
- [05:17]
Joe Saul-Sehy
He totally is. He'd be like a broad beard of his.
- [05:20]
Benjamin Brandt
Yeah.
- [05:21]
Joe Saul-Sehy
And his just very laid back nature.
- [05:23]
Doug
Is he always carrying a white Russian?
- [05:24]
OG
Well, maybe not.
- [05:25]
Doug
Careful, man. There's a beverage here.
- [05:27]
OG
I could see him walking around in like a bathrobe. I totally could like every day, all day. Yes, Benjamin, Uncool, man. Your retirement plan is trash. It's awful. It's totally uncool, bro.
- [05:41]
Joe Saul-Sehy
You could do better. Yeah, but he'd just be more positive than that too, though. He's like Mr. Positive all the time. Benjamin Brand is here. He's a CFP from the great state of North Dakota.
- [05:52]
OG
North Dakota.
- [05:53]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Yeah. Don't you know?
- [05:54]
OG
Don't you know?
- [05:54]
Joe Saul-Sehy
He is is the fantastic host of the Retirement Begins Today podcast. Frequent contributor here. We have him on about twice a year, but today he's in the driver's seat because he's got some mentoring to do. Og about retirement starting today, what does that actually mean? I thought I knew. I didn't know. Bet you guys don't know. We're gonna hear from Benjamin next. But before we get there, we've got some sponsors to make sure this show is free so that you don't have to pay for any of this. Goodness. And man, goodness. It's going to be today. Let's hear from them. And then certified financial planner Benjamin Brandt joining us at the card table. This episode is brought to you by Navy Federal Credit Union. Navy Federal Our mission is to help members of the military, veterans and their families achieve their financial goals. That's why we offer great savings and investing options like our certificates. Certificates come with sky high rates and some even have the flexibility to have money anytime during your term. Whether you're saving for a home, new car, your future, our options could help you get there. Certificates are just the beginning. Navy Federal also provides financial advisors to help you manage your investment portfolio, along with online tools to guide your savings plan. With our support, you'll have everything you need to take charge of your finances. So don't wait. The sooner you start building your financial future with Navy Federal Savings and investing options, the better off you could be in the long run. Sign up at Navy Federal Dawg. Navy Federal Credit Union. Our members are the mission. Savings products insured by NCUA Investment products are not insured, not obligations of Navy Federal and may lose value. How high is the interest rate for the new Laurel Road High Yield Savings account? This high.
- [07:45]
Doug
The air is really, really thin up here. The Laurel Road Very High Yield Savings.
- [07:51]
OG
Account Variable annual percentage yield APY is subject to change at any time. No minimum balance required. Fees may reduce earnings on the account. For full terms and conditions, see laurelroad.com savings. Laurel Road is a brand of KeyBank member FDIC.
- [08:13]
Joe Saul-Sehy
And I'm super happy this guy's coming down to the Basement. Ben Brands here. How are you, man?
- [08:18]
Benjamin Brandt
I couldn't be better. Love your show. Love everything about you.
- [08:21]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Well, stop. Holy cow. I feel like I owe you 10 bucks already.
- [08:25]
Benjamin Brandt
Awesome.
- [08:26]
Joe Saul-Sehy
You know, we call our Monday segments Monday Mentors. And your appearance here today is specifically because of a note that Stacker Joel sent to us. He actually shared this in our basement Facebook group, and I'd like to share it with you because I think this is. This is so important for what you and I are going to talk about today. He actually shared this in our adventure podcast forum, the Stacking Ventures Clubhouse. He said, I've been listening to stacking Benjamins for 10 months now, pretty consistently. My wife and I recently retired and we're having challenges transitioning from a savings frugal mindset to a spending mindset. Hoping this group and the new Adventures podcast gives us some ideas to help with this transition and, of course, adventure ideas. Thanks for your time and effort, Joel. Thanks to you. This pen is a great intro to why you're here today and what we're going to talk about. Let's talk about cliches in personal finance, because I was a financial planner for quite a long time. Like, let's just talk about men in general. When you think about a cliche of men and retirement, what does the average prototypical male tell you they're going to do in retirement?
- [09:37]
Benjamin Brandt
Fish and golf.
- [09:38]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Fishing. Golf, yes. 100. I got golf a lot. Maybe it's because I don't fish often. I didn't get fish as much, but fish and golf and then.
- [09:46]
Benjamin Brandt
Then women spend time with grandkids.
- [09:49]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Oh, for me, it was travel.
- [09:51]
Benjamin Brandt
Okay.
- [09:52]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Yeah.
- [09:52]
Benjamin Brandt
Well, that could be both. I guess that could be the same thing.
- [09:54]
Joe Saul-Sehy
But, yeah, travel to where the grandkids are.
- [09:56]
Benjamin Brandt
Yeah, right, Absolutely.
- [09:58]
Joe Saul-Sehy
But a lot of time on the road. And by the way, stackers, this isn't everybody, but this definitely is. Is an issue. I don't know. Have you ever had somebody tell you that? Like, hey, I'm in retirement and this golf retirement's not doing it for me?
- [10:12]
Benjamin Brandt
Yeah, all the time. So we work with super savers. That's kind of who listens to our podcast and who are our clients. And it's difficult. You know, the wires that we connected in our brain in our 20s and 30s and 40s and 50s to save up all this money and the skills we develop to save up money is not the same skills we need to spend it. So a lot of times we get to retirement and we've got a couple million bucks in the bank. And we're like, I don't know what to do. I'm kind of sick of golf. I've watched the prices right as much as a human possibly could, and I'm really bored. I didn't think this is what retirement was. What do I do now?
- [10:44]
Joe Saul-Sehy
It's so sad because you think about all of this money that you save, you're like, oh, I'm going to get to golf non stop. And I had that same thing back when I was a planner all the time. Have you ever seen the Ken Dykewald studies on this, the early years of retirement?
- [10:58]
Benjamin Brandt
I'm sure I have. I couldn't quote them to you chapter and verse, but it sounds familiar.
- [11:02]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Yeah, just. Just the first 18 months, Ben, is this overwhelming sense of joy, just this fantastic euphoria that I'm not going into the office. Everybody skips into retirement, to the golf course with a fishing pole, whatever it is, for like 18 months. 18 months in the average retiree. And it's funny because I've quoted this a ton when I've done public speaking the last several years, and I always have people afterwards come up and go, that was exactly me. 18 months in, they have this deep, deep, deep depression. And it's this huge. Is this it? Is this really what retirement's about? And this is kind of what you're fighting against every day.
- [11:43]
Benjamin Brandt
And I think you've covered this on your show before, but there's a great TED talk. I don't remember who did it, but the four phases of retirement. And he calls that phase the honeymoon phase. And so you retire and it's nine months or 18 months of this honeymoon phase. And you're like, this is never going to end. Like this joy of no more zoom calls, no more voicemails, no more commute, you know, no more whatever. I can wear sweatpants and a hoodie every day. This is never going to end. And then at some point it does end, and you say, okay, now what? You know, I've got 29 and a half more years of retirement. Well, what am I going to do now?
- [12:16]
Joe Saul-Sehy
You make a kind of a bold claim early on in your new book on this topic, which is managing money correctly is not a fulfilling retirement. And now it's like you just swore at a bunch of finance nerds that listen to this type of stuff. Ben, what do you mean when you say managing money correctly is not a fulfilling retirement?
- [12:37]
Benjamin Brandt
Well, what I mean is that sometimes in the book, I'll talk about what got you here, won't get you there. So our hyper focus on money oftentimes, especially if we're retiring early, is what makes the thing possible. But we can't change our focus. So we're still focused on the ones and zeros. So sometimes I'll meet with somebody and I'll meet with them two or three times a year over a decade, and I can tell before the meeting starts what mood they'll be in because of the state of the stock market. They're letting their investments dictate their entire energy and their outlook on life. Right. They're letting the ones and zeros dictate their behavior. Right. Sometimes it's even political, sometimes it's financial. And I think there's just so much more to life than that. So the money is what we need to go live life, right? We need. We need to have a kind of a set it and forget it style of a plan so that we're not focused on those specific account balances all the time and then letting that dictate our mood. So focusing way too much on the financial aspect is going to almost ensure that we die with some form of regret. We got to get past the numbers. We have to build our retirement confidence. Even when the market's bad, we got to go do the thing that we saved up the money for. Sometimes we save up this money because I'm going to go do X. And then we never figure what X is. We just focus on saving up the money. And so I start the book out by saying there's two ways you can mess up retirement. Our industry only focuses on one, running out of money. The second one is dying with regret. And if we don't sort of get past number one, we'll almost guarantee number two. We'll almost guarantee the die with regret part.
- [14:03]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Well, the frustration that you have is that the financial industry in general only focuses on number one. And I think we kind of feed that fear because then you hire professionals, you're like, oh, if you don't hire me, you're going to run out of money. You don't want to run out of money. We emphasize that a ton. But the regret piece to me is way bigger.
- [14:20]
Benjamin Brandt
Well, I think the whole financial industry, myself included, is built on assets under management and or selling insurance policies. And both of those are focused on don't ever spend your money, Leave it invested with me so I can charge you 1% forever, or buy this expensive insurance product that's going to guarantee that you never run out of money, but inflation is going to eat you alive and you're not actually going to be able to go do the fun stuff that you want to do because you're on an allowance and this insurance policy is carved into stone tablets. Right. So the whole industry is on number one, and we tell you that's the most important thing, but I don't believe it. I'm not buying it.
- [14:51]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Did you read Christine, Ben's new book?
- [14:53]
Benjamin Brandt
I read pieces of it. That's the Morningstar lady, right?
- [14:55]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You must have been applauding. I was just thinking of you. You must have been applauding when in chapter one, she's talking to an annuity expert. They're not talking about annuities at all, Ben. They're talking about a successful retirement's treating it like a job. Like, I got that feeling from you as well. And we'll define what type of job this is, but it's not the job that you're going to for anything other than it's what I love to do. Like, treating retirement like it's not this end. Well, you call it much more of a graduation, not this. In fact, I laughed out loud when you said something about how, you know, a lot of people get this explosion at retirement, but it's not the good kind. It's not like a fireworks show. It's this horrible, horrible bomb that goes off that we didn't want.
- [15:41]
Benjamin Brandt
Right? Yeah. If you ever want to get really depressed, if you ever find yourself too happy, you know, you can go online and you can search like, high school graduation or college graduation, and it's just an endless, like, on Amazon, endless stream of, like, these inspirational gifts. And, like, the world is your oyster. You've got your whole life ahead of you. And it's super inspiring because you do have the whole world ahead of you when you graduate high school, college, if you do the same thing for retirement, it's like a coffee mug that says, I hate my boss or not my problem anymore. Right. It's the opposite. I want to challenge that and say, not only is the whole world ahead of you now you have money, right? You have all the options you had in high school, and you don't have. You can reinvent yourself and you don't even have to pierce your ear or buy a leather jacket. Right? You've got money and you've got time. Let's dedicate some money and some time to figure out what the heck we want to do for the next 30 years. So I want retirement to be as exciting as high school graduation, but I don't think the world is reflecting that right now.
- [16:34]
Joe Saul-Sehy
But you can still get the leather jacket and pierce here if you want to.
- [16:37]
Benjamin Brandt
I might, I might. I might pierce them both.
- [16:39]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Yeah, Just pierce the bottom of your beard there. Do that little thing where you put the. Put the thing in the bottom of the beard, you know?
- [16:45]
Benjamin Brandt
Oh, I like it. Yeah. And then maybe a chain that goes to my ear.
- [16:48]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Yeah, Perfect. Fantastic.
- [16:49]
Benjamin Brandt
I like it.
- [16:50]
Joe Saul-Sehy
I thought I knew where this was going. I'm like, okay, what you're talking about when you talk about retirement starts today is now I'm going to live this vision in the future like Christine Benz talked about. Right? Live this vision. We're waking up every day during retirement, and retirement is much more structured. I now have a focus and a plan. That's different than me just going to the nine to five every day. And then you flip that on me. And I realized I had no idea where the hell you were going. And this is something different and something more. And really, this is what made me so excited for us to talk today. Let's frame this through your story of Corey and Becky, because Corey and Becky kind of define what we're talking about here, because so far, everybody listening thinks, okay, this is. For once I get past retirement, I will listen this episode later. Corey and Becky are not retired guys.
- [17:43]
Benjamin Brandt
No, they're about my age, a little older. Yeah.
- [17:45]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Tell us about Corey and Becky.
- [17:46]
Benjamin Brandt
Yeah. So Corey and Becky are real people shout out if they listen to this show. They're among my favorite clients. But Corey was.
- [17:51]
Joe Saul-Sehy
You say that's everybody.
- [17:52]
Benjamin Brandt
Yeah, of course. So Corey worked in IT for a long time, and he decided that he didn't want to work in IT anymore. His real calling was to be a pastor. So he quit. Great job with great benefits, and he went to become a pastor. But beyond that, he said, I want to live a life of adventure. And he said, the biggest adventure that I can think of is to hike Mount Kilimanjaro. And he lives where I live in North Dakota. Mount Kilimanjaro is pretty far away from here in a number of different aspects, distance wise and otherwise. And he said, okay, I'm going to go online. I'm going to research how to hike Mount Kilimanjaro. And then, like 18 months or two years in advance, he's going to train and go do this thing. And so the retirement lessons there are while you're working and while you have a salary, we should be making small investments and taking small risks of, like, time, energy, and money to figure out what really gets us Fired up and then intentionally create that. On the other side of our career, a lot of times we wait until we're retired and we say, okay, I have all this money and all this free time. Now I need to figure out what to do. And the energy exchange is so different. Because if I wait until I'm retired and then I go buy a bass boat, I better be damn sure that I love fishing, because now I'm all in on this bass boat. Or golf. I think that's why so many people golf, because they just. I have free time. I guess I'm going to golf. But if we rewind that five years or 10 years or 15 years, and we take risks and gather data of, I'm going to try hiking, I'm going to try mentoring. I'm going to try this or that. And then good data and bad data are both good data. I tried volunteering at the Humane Society. I don't like it. I don't even like dogs. That's good data. Check that off. That's not something we're going to do in retirement. So I want you to take small risks of time, money, and energy. Figure out what you like and what you don't like. And then we need to artificially create that in retirement. That could also go for your career as well. You know, write down what specifically you like about your job and you might like. I like being an engineer. There's probably more pieces of that. Like, I love working on projects with people. I love bringing something across the table under budget and on time. Or I like collaborating with other people. Or I like just hanging out in the break room and, you know, chewing the cud with friends. Take specific notes of that and then recreate that in retirement. Again, bad data is also good data. Write down what you hate about your life and make sure you don't do that in retirement. So, yeah, Corey and Becky are, you know, they were. They're just living that out loud, so I had to include it in the book.
- [20:11]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Did he like climbing Mount Kilimanjaro?
- [20:13]
Benjamin Brandt
He loved it. Yeah. It was very cool. Yeah, I got the whole breakdown of, like, Sherpas and, like, how many days you do certain things and where you camp out on the thing and. Probably not something I would do by.
- [20:23]
Joe Saul-Sehy
But see, but that's cool because for you, me, I wouldn't do it either. In fact, a group of our friends went and climbed Mount Kilimanjaro. I have. I have no interest. I would spend that same time going on a safari if I was going to Africa, just the top of the mountain, doesn't do it for me, but the safari certainly does. But what's cool is I think it is, but I've never been on a safari. And so if I save that for retirement, that's one thing. If I do it now, then I'm like, oh, I, I turns out I don't like safaris the way that I thought you said. Also, I think that during retirement they're considering, like, different places they're going to live. So now, pre retirement, these vacations are like explorations of these different locales to see if they actually would like living there.
- [21:11]
Benjamin Brandt
Yeah, they're just gathering data. And so the great thing about data is both good data and bad data are good data. Because I'm getting information and I'm analyzing it, and I'm doing it all while I've got my health insurance figured out. I'm getting paid every two weeks. Like, the risk factor is so much less than. My health insurance is gone. My paycheck is gone. I'm living off my savings. Now I got to figure out what I'm going to do. I hope I like it. I don't want that for anybody.
- [21:37]
Joe Saul-Sehy
We have this huge disconnect between what we're doing today while we're working. Right. I'm planning a week's vacation, and I'm thinking about unplugging. I'm thinking about just getting away from the office. And it's amazing how connected Ben, this could all be if we think about who I want to be in the future and just connect it to who I am today.
- [21:58]
Benjamin Brandt
Yeah.
- [21:59]
Joe Saul-Sehy
As an example of this, this idea that the past doesn't have to equal being a teacher. You talk about somebody who, let's say is a teacher. Right. Somebody who's, who's been a teacher for 30 years doesn't mean you have to be a teacher tomorrow. Do you remember the story?
- [22:15]
Benjamin Brandt
Yeah. So our, I mean, you meet somebody, the first thing they ask you is what do you do for a living? Right. It's such an integral part of your identity, and then at some point in the future, it's gone. Gone. As far as you're retired, it may or may not still be a part of your identity. That's a decision that you have to make. Right. So I want you to create something beyond that. Just because you were a teacher for 30 years doesn't mean that needs to be your identity for the next 30 of retirement. There might be pieces and components of that that you choose to keep or reject, but you get to decide. The sooner we start crafting that shopping list, so to speak, of retirement, the more actual control we have over it. Again, if we wait until retirement to decide, some of those things might be decided for us just based on our circumstances. Whether that's like, emotionally, spiritually, financially, whatever it is. But if we start really soon to say, here's what I do want and don't want, and discover that with an intentionality, then we have so much more control over actually making that a reality. So that might mean being a teacher. It might mean something completely different. Professional poker player. I don't know. It's the opposite of being a teacher.
- [23:16]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Well, you decided to do this yourself, right? I mean, you decided, hey, if I'm gonna explore being a quote, poker player, then, Brant, I'm gonna go give myself some of my. My own medicine and go try out maybe not being a financial planner.
- [23:29]
Benjamin Brandt
Yeah, I did it in the pandemic. I did it over Zoom, which didn't really count, but I was still terrified. But then at fincon, I believe it was, I did. In New Orleans, I did stand up comedy for the first time.
- [23:41]
Joe Saul-Sehy
So wait a minute. So during the pandemic over Zoom, you did what?
- [23:44]
Benjamin Brandt
Stand up.
- [23:45]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Oh. Oh, you took like a stand up class?
- [23:47]
Benjamin Brandt
I took a stand up class and did. Yeah. In front of about, Okay, a few hundred people. I did stand up. And the hard part about Zoom is you can't hear anybody laughing unless you're quiet for long enough. Either nobody was laughing or there was enough of a delay.
- [24:01]
Joe Saul-Sehy
How long was the class?
- [24:02]
Benjamin Brandt
It was like nine weeks or 12 weeks. It was. And it was several hours a week. It was a pretty good commitment.
- [24:07]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Yeah.
- [24:08]
Benjamin Brandt
To develop, like, four minutes of material.
- [24:10]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Which, by the way, if people think, oh, four minutes, you can do it. Four minutes is a long time, dude.
- [24:14]
Benjamin Brandt
It's an eternity.
- [24:15]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Yeah. Especially when you can't hear anybody laughing. You're like, oh, God.
- [24:18]
Benjamin Brandt
Yeah, oh, God. That's what I heard after every joker.
- [24:21]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Oh, God.
- [24:22]
Benjamin Brandt
That's all I ever heard. No laughs.
- [24:25]
Joe Saul-Sehy
So you're in New Orleans after the pandemic, and. And you go to a. You go to stand up. Like, what was it, like an open mic night?
- [24:33]
Benjamin Brandt
Open mic. Yeah. So I wasn't planning on it. And my buddy Stephen Jarvis, who. Who. He and I, we put it on pause right now, but we co host a podcast. But I think you've met Stephen in the past. He's a CPA kind of tax guru. And he called me the day before, he texted me, and he's like, there's an open mic on Wednesday night and we're doing it. And I was terrified and I was going over my joke. I got like 24 hours notice. If he gave me three months notice, I would have said no. But 24 hours notice, I'm in a different city. If it goes well, if it goes poorly, I'll just fake my own death or something. No one will ever know I was there. Right. So gives me 24 hours notice, I do it. And he's like, I'm going to record you doing this. And I said, no, no, this is going to go poorly. I don't want any evidence that this ever happened. And I didn't let him record it. And it's. I have so much regret that it didn't have him recorded because it went really well. It did not so well that I did it. I've done it since. But it went well enough that I wish I had that video. I let my fear of it going poorly impact and it still impacted me because I didn't take the risk of having him record it. If it did go forward, he could have maybe obviously blackmailed me or just deleted it. So I have regret because I didn't take the risk. That's why I put it in the book. But yeah, I love standup comedy. I was an unsupervised, latchkey kid and all I did was watch stand up comedy all throughout the 90s, which was like the last heyday of stand up comedy. We're in one now. Yeah. My stand up comedy teacher said, write down all the things that annoy you throughout your life and turn those into jokes. So all my jokes are about having six kids.
- [25:56]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Well, you said, I think in the book you said that was your first joke.
- [25:59]
Benjamin Brandt
My first joke was when you tell people you have six kids, they assume you're Catholic. I'm not Catholic. I'm just impulsive.
- [26:06]
Joe Saul-Sehy
So I've never done stand up, but I have.
- [26:09]
Benjamin Brandt
You'd be really good at that.
- [26:11]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Well, thank you. What I do, though, Ben, is I write down stuff that would be in my three to four minute set. Right. And I have these topics now that I would love to at some point get on a stage and try it out. But I'm always.
- [26:24]
Benjamin Brandt
See, next time we're at fincon together, if there's an open mic, we should do time because we can find four or five people that do it.
- [26:32]
Joe Saul-Sehy
I was with a group of parents one time because your joke reminds me of a joke that I told that went absolutely horribly. My kids were running at the AAU national meet in Orlando. They were running cross country, and they were maybe 12 years old, and we were doing it, by the way, for fun. I'm not a hyper competitive parent, but they were really good runners. And my daughter ended up running for the University of Arkansas later on. But they just enjoyed it, and if they enjoyed it and I had the money to take the trip, why wouldn't we do it? And there was no pressure on them to perform. They just loved running. So we would go to the local meet, then the district meet, then the regional meet, and then we qualified for national. So there were maybe five other parents from the town that we lived in at the time, and we all decided to go to dinner together the night before the meet. And we're all. We're all sitting around, and Cheryl tells the other parents, who we don't know that well, you know, you're just getting to know each other. Says Joe's dad has 16 brothers and sisters, which is true. And somebody said, wow, big Catholic family. And I went back to Jim Gaffigan. The comedian now is known for not being controversial at all and doesn't tell off color jokes, but he used to.
- [27:47]
Benjamin Brandt
I know the joke.
- [27:48]
Joe Saul-Sehy
And there's this old Jim Gaffigan joke where he said, yeah, we're either Catholic or my grandma was a. And so I said that, and I cracked myself up telling this joke because it's just horrible. And, dude, nobody laughed. Nobody laughed. And they thought I was the worst human being. You could see it in their eyes, like you are. How could you talk about your grandmother that way? Like, of course I'm kidding, but in.
- [28:13]
Benjamin Brandt
Hindsight, that makes it funnier. When you tell a joke that you love and everyone else cringes, in hindsight, it's going to be a better story later that you said, I told this to 15 people and nobody laughed, that makes it so. If you said, I told this joke and everyone laughed and it was amazing, that's a less funny story, right?
- [28:29]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Well, and here's what I like about this whole discussion is this. Now that I'm taking my vacations from my job, and I'm tying it to future me, right? I'm. I'm enjoying myself. I'm doing things that light me up today, but I know also are an experiment toward things tomorrow. For me, that really excites me. Like, the idea of tying present me to future me is. Is this great idea, but also because I know it's an experiment, if it goes poorly, it becomes a story that I get to tell. My friends later. Oh, guess what? I thought this was going to be fantastic.
- [29:04]
OG
It sucked.
- [29:05]
Joe Saul-Sehy
It was so horrible. Cheryl and I, and a lot of our stackers don't know this story. Cheryl and I thought that we were going to be nomads, that we would not have a house and we would just live in different places. And during the pandemic, through a series of kind of now, in hindsight, hilarious things that happen, we ended up homeless. And the cool thing about being financially independent, then you can live anywhere. And guess what? We tried it for several months. And you know what happened, Ben?
- [29:31]
Benjamin Brandt
You love it.
- [29:31]
Joe Saul-Sehy
I hate it. Being homeless.
- [29:33]
Benjamin Brandt
That's good data. That's a bad situation, but good data. How many people that are financially successful go drop six figures on an RV before they even have rented an RV and know that they like it? It happens so often.
- [29:45]
Joe Saul-Sehy
I had clients when I was a financial planner who bought the RV the second they retired from General Motors. Bought this RV. At the time, this would have been like 1996. They bought an RV that was like $120,000. So we're talking about a quarter million dollar RV today. Just this badass thing, the 18 months of euphoria. They lived in it, and by the end of 18 months, they said, is this it? They sold it, they bought a house. They were like, we couldn't stand living in the RV. It was horrible. And think about $125,000 today. Quarter of a million dollar mistake because you didn't know ahead of time and.
- [30:20]
Benjamin Brandt
You pulled that money out of your IRA. So you lost 50 grand in taxes too? Yeah, I think 90 now. If anybody is a follower of my podcast and they sell RVs, I apologize in advance, Please don't unsubscribe. But I think 99% of people that have the RV fantasy could scratch that itch by renting it. And then worst case, you do go buy one and you're. You're a few thousand dollars worse off. But again, that's data. I want you to make small money time, emotional and financial commitments, like renting an rv or like, I have kind of the idea that I want to live half the year in either Phoenix or Las Vegas. I want to rent a house for six months there before I buy, because buying a house is a massive commitment, especially at like 7% interest rates. So get good data, figure out which side of the tracks is the wrong side of the tracks, all that kind of stuff. Rent your rv, learn how to take those big turns on someone else's quarter panels. Right when you Rent it, and then you get data, good data or bad data. But it's going to help you make a more informed decision, I think.
- [31:15]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Okay, so here's a financial planner on the show then, talking about living retirement today. Let's talk about the thing, though, that our money nerds want to talk about then, Ben, where does the math fit in?
- [31:25]
Benjamin Brandt
So you want to do minimum viable product math. We want to say, okay, the amount that I'm going to take from my portfolio is, you know, roughly 4 to 5% per year napkin math plus Social Security that we're going to get at some point in the future. If that covers kind of your basic needs plus a little bit more, then we can kind of check off minimum viable product. Right? And then we can go explore. That's one way of looking at it. If you're totally obsessed with numbers, which most people are, if you are a normal person and you're not hyper obsessed with numbers, I want you just to dream like there are no numbers and then go backwards and do the math. Because where we make the mistake is that we do the math first and we listen to financial podcasts and the gurus say you can spend 5% a year. No, wait, it's actually 4%. No, wait, it's actually 1.5% as the new safe withdrawal rate. And then you look at your savings and you say, geez, I guess I got to smash everything I want to do until like a 1 1/2% safe withdrawal rate, which is no fun. You didn't save. That's not why you saved it. The money. Right? So what you I want to do is dream like you're Jeff Bezos and you have unlimited money and figure out what you really want to do and then go back and do the math. So don't smash your dreams into, like this bookend of like 1 or 2 or 3% safe withdrawal rate, because that's going to suck. Dream big. And then we could always pull back a little bit. Like, let's say you said, I'm Jeff Bezos, I have Bezos money. I'm going to fly in a private jet around the world for six months and be a nomad. Well, maybe you don't have Jeff Bezos money. Maybe you do. But I can say, okay, I can fly southwest to Houston for like 40 bucks, and then I could fly, you know, Aer Lingus, you know, to the. You know, you could make a cheaper version of that that fits into your numbers. But again, if you start backwards on the 2%, 3% safe withdrawal rate, whatever it is, you're never going to get there. So I want you to start plan Big. And then we could find a Southwest Airlines version of that, a Kia version of that. Right, the Costco brand version of that. But we're never going to get there if we start with I have to do the math first.
- [33:15]
Joe Saul-Sehy
I love this idea of starting out like we're 13 years old.
- [33:18]
Benjamin Brandt
Yes.
- [33:18]
Joe Saul-Sehy
And you went back to 13 years old and said, hey, if I was 13 years old and I had 500 bucks, what would I buy? And you had something very specific you would have bought when you were 13.
- [33:28]
Benjamin Brandt
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So financial independence stinks in that we get all of the money when we're our least creative in life. Right. If I think about my average client as an engineer and they've just been beaten to death, creatively wise, by the corporate world for 30 years. So they're at their least creative point in their life and they have the most amount of money that they've ever had. It's sort of like the movie Big or like Trading Places or something like that. So I said, what if we could flip that? What if we could go to our most creative time and give that kid financial independence? Right. So I thought 13 is when you are old enough to maybe think about the future, but young enough that you still have all of your creativity and you're the least financially independent or at least I was making like 20 bucks a week cutting grass or something. Hardly enough to do all the stuff I wanted to do. So I said, what if we give you, Joel or Benjamin, $500 in a time machine? You go back to when you're 13 years old. You've got to spend it on yourself by the end of the day, what would you buy? And then that would give us some data to then extrapolate to financial independence. So I would buy a set of drums. And I did buy a set of drums. Because what's more fun than, you know, when I was 13, right, I was listening to Dookie on Green Day's Dookie and Trey Cool, who I just saw in concert about six months ago, just, you know, made magic with drums. And I thought, oh, gosh, if I had money, that's what I would do, is I would buy drums. So that's what I did.
- [34:44]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Did drums still light you up?
- [34:47]
Benjamin Brandt
Less so because an unnamed member of my family that's higher ranking than I am bought a treadmill that sits right where the drums are supposed to go. So this unnamed member of my family made me move my Drums into the corner. A very sad corner. Not even an exciting corner. So I banged on them for, like, a year.
- [35:03]
Joe Saul-Sehy
I met this member of your family, and she's way more deserving of the space than you are, Right?
- [35:08]
Benjamin Brandt
Well, she outranks me, so he or she. I don't want to.
- [35:11]
Joe Saul-Sehy
I'm sorry. Yes. I may or may not have met that member of your family. For me, it was funny when I read that. 13. I don't remember, but 16. I was obsessed with getting an ultralight. I wanted to have an ultralight.
- [35:27]
Benjamin Brandt
That's a bike.
- [35:28]
Joe Saul-Sehy
No, it's one of those. It's one of those things where you take, like, an engine off, like, a lawnmower, and you put it on the structure of, like, a plane with wings, and you're up flying at, like, 5,000ft with just you and this little almost next to nothing. I thought having an ultralight would have been the coolest thing. I remember I started a separate savings account specifically for my ultralight. I think I got, like, 600 bucks in it. And I bought a really nice bike instead.
- [35:57]
Benjamin Brandt
I like it. So that's really good data. So you could take that and say, okay, now that I'm approaching financial independence, what version of that could I do? Could I take flying lessons? Could I volunteer my time at a local, you know, whatever? Could I help maintain planes? Is there something there that I could create a version of that that I would get excited about? So I'm pulled forward by my exciting future rather than being focused on, I did this last thing for 20 years. That's all I know how to do. I guess I got to do that in retirement or nothing at all. Neither of which. I don't think either of those would be fulfilling for a lot of people.
- [36:28]
Joe Saul-Sehy
I just think going back and feeling the excitement again, you know, to your point, we have the money, We've lost the creativity. And now when we start tying ourselves not to the past anymore, but to the future, it is such a great way to start the math, which leads to stackers, by the way. Things like that we haven't gotten into. Like, people use the. You believe. We use the Monte Carlo simulation completely backwards.
- [36:50]
Benjamin Brandt
I almost come to the point where I hate the Monte Carlo analysis, which.
- [36:53]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Is a great tool. I think if we used it the opposite way that we use it, we want it to be 100% correct, which your point is, then that's. There's 100% chance. If it says 100%, you're probably going to regret.
- [37:04]
Benjamin Brandt
100% chance of regret. That's exactly right.
- [37:07]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Everything that you. You did today, believe it or not, you wrote a book on this topic called Retirement Starts Today. And the original title was Someday. And it is crossed out with today because we're taking pre retirement, combining it with retirement. By the way, if you're already like Joel and you're in retirement still, this idea applies. I think, Ben of. Of, hey, everything you do in those early euphoria years, don't get down if the RV didn't work out. This is data for later.
- [37:37]
Benjamin Brandt
Yeah, yeah. They say the best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time to plant a tree is now. Although somebody corrected me online and said, well, wouldn't the second best time to be 19 years ago? And that's probably true, but we're going to ignore that for now. And saying, yeah, you're through the honeymoon phase. Things aren't going as well. That's just good data. You know, the last 18 months are data. Now we can extrapolate good stuff and bad stuff, and then we just try to repeat the good stuff and avoid the bad stuff. So you're not done. You still have 28 and a half years, or 27, whatever the math is. And you've got financial. If you've been listening to the Stacking Benjamin show for any amount of time, you've got significant financial independence. So let's use that in a way that's positive.
- [38:13]
Joe Saul-Sehy
What I love about financial independence is that's different than having money as well. You know what I mean? You have the independence, I think, to think freely, to create your future. I think that's the way I look at financial independence.
- [38:25]
Benjamin Brandt
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I like to say that's why they call it personal finance and not everybody finance. There's so few broad brushes. We can paint with, like, what you want. If you and I had the exact same amount of money, we're the exact same age, we could want wildly different things. And that doesn't mean one is right or wrong. It just means that it's personal.
- [38:41]
Joe Saul-Sehy
So how do we get this book that fired me up so much? Retirement starts today.
- [38:46]
Benjamin Brandt
You could call up my friend Jeff and you can buy it on Amazon.
- [38:49]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Awesome. Call my friend Jeff.
- [38:51]
Benjamin Brandt
Yeah. We talked about Jeff Bezos earlier. Yeah, he's a buddy of mine.
- [38:54]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Hey, Jeff, I want to buy the book. You know the book?
- [38:57]
Benjamin Brandt
Yeah, the book. The one.
- [38:58]
Joe Saul-Sehy
And don't be offended if Jeff says, how'd you get this number? Right.
- [39:02]
Benjamin Brandt
When I text Jeff, he texts me back, new phone.
- [39:04]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Who dis Ben thanks for hanging out and mentoring our Stackers today. I super appreciate it.
- [39:10]
Benjamin Brandt
I love it. One of my favorite podcasts ever.
- [39:17]
Doug
Hey there Stackers. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and Happy February everybody. I just love February so much. You got the cold weather, the depressingly short days. Can't figure out why I'm so cranky. Well, maybe it's that we're also one month closer to tax day, which gets me down every stinking year. I contribute so much to this nation and yet still they want my money too. Well, here's another bummer. Speaking of horrible Washington rules, it was on this date in history, back in 1913, that the 16th Amendment was ratified. Let's make that today's trivia question. What did the 16th Amendment give the government the power to do that affects me personally. And I mean, who knows, maybe you too. I'll be back with the answer right after I take a self help positivity class saying to yourself, Doug, things are.
- [40:12]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Going to get better.
- [40:12]
Doug
Just like the class taught you, things are going to get better.
- [40:17]
Joe Saul-Sehy
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- [41:55]
Doug
Hey There stackers. I'm music lover and guy who's now a constitutional authority. Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. So what was the 16th Amendment? This amendment gave the federal government the right and ability to create that very income tax I was complaining about at the top of the segment. And get this. According to the amendment and the fine lady who does my taxes, I'm on the hook for these income taxes. Not every third year or every other year, but every single year. Isn't that some bull? And now, here to hopefully help you get your mojo back so you can be a proud taxpaying stacker, here's Joe and OG Again.
- [42:46]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Big thanks to Ben. And wow, what a. What a mentorship session that was. I think we've got OG this idea that future me is different than present me, when truly, I love the way that Ben blends those together. Doesn't have to be. And by the way, it doesn't have to be who you were yesterday. Let's tie yourself to the future and make it really exciting instead of, you know, ten years from now. I'm going to do all this cool stuff. No, let's do it now.
- [43:10]
OG
Yeah. I mean, 10 years, she might not be around. Yeah, you might have a busted hip or something. You get an opportunity to ski with the Doug. You're gonna go skiing with the Doug.
- [43:21]
Joe Saul-Sehy
You have to go break your leg with the Doug.
- [43:24]
OG
Oh, don't put that on the universe, bro. That ain't cool.
- [43:27]
Doug
That's not gonna happen. Harshing on our vibe for what?
- [43:30]
Joe Saul-Sehy
You say that to actors, Go break a leg. Why wouldn't I say it? When you're skiing like, hey, guys, go break a leg.
- [43:36]
OG
It's a whole different thing.
- [43:37]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Does that mean ski great? I thought that meant ski great.
- [43:40]
OG
I'm going on all the green ones. Doug's like, so are you more of a double black or triple black diamond guy?
- [43:45]
Benjamin Brandt
Mike?
- [43:45]
OG
I'm more of a up and down, apres ski cocktail guy. That's me.
- [43:50]
Joe Saul-Sehy
I'm more the bunny hill and the spa rope.
- [43:53]
Doug
Yeah, I think this ski trip is going to be. Hey, we'll meet you at that lift in 30 minutes.
- [44:00]
Joe Saul-Sehy
That's fabulous. Boy, that sounds exciting. Let's talk about Benjamin Brandt while we're at it. You know, Og, we talked just a little bit about a Monte Carlo simulation, Right. We didn't explain at all what this Monte Carlo thing is that Benjamin's not that excited about. What is the Monte Carlo simulation? For people that don't know, it's a.
- [44:19]
OG
Card game in Eastern travel For it. Yeah, it's a good idea to go to Monte Carlo and basically you play James Bond. I do think about it like a card game because I think it's an easier way to think about how it works. Right. So as you're working through your financial plan, there's things that you know or that you can assume are going to happen, Right? I am. I'm putting in 23,000 into my 401k and I expect to do that for the foreseeable future.
- [44:45]
Benjamin Brandt
Right.
- [44:45]
OG
You can have that down as part of your plan. You can say, I know I spend this amount of money today, I anticipate with inflation that I'll need to spend this amount of money down the line. And I think those are fair estimations. I have a million dollars today in my account. How much am I going to have in the future? Well, one of the variables that you don't know is what sort of rate of return are you going to get. But the cool thing with Monte Carlo or the way that I think about Monte Carlo is we have a hundred years worth of data for your portfolio. And I don't necessarily mean for your specific stock fund or your ETF or your mutual fund or your stocks, but generally speaking, your asset allocation. Right. So we know a 70, 30 allocation has produced this, an 80, 20, 100, 0, a 50, 50, whatever over the last hundred years, and we know what it's done each year. And so what Monte Carlo does is if you think about a deck of cards and on the front of the card you have 1961, 1984, 2013, whatever, you have the year, and on the back of the card have the return for your portfolio, for your asset allocation. So you've got those known knowns how much I'm saving, and I know how much my portfolio is today, and I know how much I'm going to start taking out in the future. I do some fair estimations. The thing I don't know is what's the sequence of returns going to be? What's my return profile going to look like? So Monte Carlo shuffles the deck and plays those return cards in a different order. So it's the same returns that have happened, but just in a different order. And then you play that game, you run that math problem out and you ask the question, at age 100, did I have enough money? As in, did I die with at least a dollar? And if the answer is yes, you put a tick mark in the yes column and then you shuffle the cards and you play the game again. Do that a thousand times, and you've got a pretty fair estimation of how successful your plan is going to be. And I don't even think about it in terms of a success rate. I'm with Benjamin on this. I hate the term success rate and I hate the percentage numbers. Different reason than he does, although I like his reason too. Eric, there's always going to be changes in your plan. You can never get to 100%, you can never get to 99, because you just don't know what the future is going to be in a realistic person with smart choices. If the market goes down 25% two years in a row, like Paul Merriman says he doesn't go on the European vacation, then it's a little tighter. Warren Buffett's famously said I get to figure out how the market's doing by how much my wife leaves me in the change jar for breakfast. If the market's doing really well, I get to have a hash brown for breakfast. If I look in my cup holder in my car and there's not enough for a hash brown, then the market must be doing bad. You know, I have an egg McMuffin in a coffee.
- [47:11]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Yeah. It's funny. Paul Merriman either travels the world or explores staycations the Pacific Northwest, depending on his portfolio.
- [47:18]
OG
How much money does he have? Right.
- [47:19]
Joe Saul-Sehy
So, Jillian.
- [47:21]
OG
Yeah, rounded. So a normal person is going to take into context what's really happening in the world and say, hey, you know, the market's down a whole bunch last couple of years. I'm going to, I'm going to tighten a little bit. So saying that you're never going to have a change. So the way that I look at Monte Carlo a little different than Benjamin is when I see those percentage numbers, I say, what's the percent chance that I have to make a change to my plan along the way? And if it's like 80%, I'm like, there's an 80% chance I'm not making any changes to my plan. Like, I'm good. I'm fine with that. And I think 100's BS anyway. I like his take on the matter, which is the higher you get, the more you're leaving on the table. Yeah. Because the other solution on this, by the way, is what the solution is age 100 or age 90 or whatever year you're solving for. Most of us use 100 or 110 these days. Pull out the Social Security tables and find the life expectancy of a couple age 90. Right now, it's two years. I think you got a plan for it. But it's okay to have some flexibility in that plan and live a little. And that's kind of his take, too.
- [48:27]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Great take. Thanks again to Benjamin. Let's do a headline. Hello, darlings.
- [48:31]
Benjamin Brandt
And now it's time for your favorite.
- [48:33]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Part of the show, our stacking Benjamin's headlines. Our headline today comes to us from Investment News. This is written by Leo DiCaprio. This is written by Leo Almazzora.
- [48:47]
Doug
Uncle Leo from Seinfeld.
- [48:48]
Joe Saul-Sehy
We're doing this again. It is the same. Leo, Leo. I keep stumbling and they keep filling in.
- [48:55]
Doug
Da Vinci.
- [48:56]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Leo Almazzora. At Investment News, a new survey suggests that when it comes to selecting and staying with an advisor, investors aren't likely, are not likely to decide based on their portfolio performance. How about that?
- [49:13]
OG
Took a survey to figure that out.
- [49:14]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Well, but it's interesting because everybody's like, well, I fired my advisor because, you know, I only got whatever percent I remember when I got fired because that, that client got like mid-40s in their portfolio and all their friends had doubled their Money. Back in 1990. Back in 1999, all their friends had doubled. Yeah, you only got like 45%. You're. You're gone, like, because we stayed well rounded. That's why. So frustrating. I want to call that dude, by the way, in, in 2002 and go.
- [49:43]
OG
I want to call now, like, hey, what's up? Remember me?
- [49:46]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Yeah, How'd that work out for you? But now he's all in Nvidia. 100%, I'm sure, dude. So he's probably doing okay today. Back in 2002, not sure. The findings by a Cap intel fintech company providing investment comparison tools reveal that trust matters more than portfolio performance. In the survey of a thousand investors it conducted late last year, 72% identified trust as the most critical factor when choosing an advisor, beating out their investment experience. 50%, the ability to provide holistic financial perspective. 46%. It's funny because, oh, gee. The reason that I find this this amazing is that I was on this online forum this last week and this dude goes, yeah, I picked this blue chip stock. And it didn't go up the way that I thought, does anybody got a better stock? Like, tell me what your favorite stock is. And the guy goes, because seriously, like, I am behind. I'm behind and I need to go faster and I'm not where I need to be. And then I think about good advisors. And while certainly I think to some degree it is about performance, but Truly, I think when you're hiring a good advisor, you're looking at systems and process. How do I bring a system and a process to the table? Because obviously person after person in the comments was like, hope is not a strategy. Like how I could give you, you know, and there were of course a bunch of jokers just naming a stock, just going, oh, yeah, pick this one. This one's going to go up tomorrow. Yeah, you're good, man. And the guy just got angrier. But I think what you're truly after is, is system and process. But even that OG doesn't matter if you don't trust the person. If you're getting advice from somebody that you don't trust, regardless of how much skill they have or whatever it is, you got to let them go. Like, they got to go. There's got to be this trusted relationship for the win.
- [51:41]
OG
It's really hard to kind of predict that in advance, you know, when you're evaluating people and that sort of thing. But you got a sense for it. I talk a lot about right fit and right time in conversations with people because I think that's a beginning stage of that trust. Like you said of do we think that we can provide value? And is now the right time to provide that? I think all of those things are important. You know, financial planning. The CFP board says there's. Well, they say seven now because they include behavioral finance. But I like the number six better than seven. But six different tactical areas of financial planning. And all of those are important. The decisions you make, you just really go hell's bells into optimizing your investment portfolio. That's great. But you need to know how that's going to affect your taxes and your cash flow. If you really want to focus on your retirement plan, that's fantastic. But you need to pay attention to how that affects your estate plan and your distribution and your taxes and your in your cash flow now. So having a trusted guide who's been up and down the path that you're about to go on for the first time is really the key differentiator in a lot of that stuff. Because while investments are important and yeah, your portfolio may be a little different than how I would do it or something like that, that's at the margin. That's like the difference between 12% small cap value and 10% small cap value, you know, it's like, okay, maybe there's a reason for it, but it's like a 0.000 whatever percent outcome. The 90% solution is save Money into stocks. You know, it's like, do that and you've got 90. Should I be VO or VTI or IWV or I S, P? Like no, no, none of that matters. The 90% solution is put money into stocks.
- [53:32]
Joe Saul-Sehy
But, and I think the key of hiring people. Oh gee, just to stop you on that analogy right there, the key to hiring people is I want somebody who's going to tell me that it's going to go, yeah, that's irrelevant. And I believe them. I believe them that they're irrelevant. I want them to get in my face and tell me where I'm wrong, number one. And I want them to be strong enough that I go, yeah, okay, yeah, you're right. Yep. And if somebody's not going to do that, I don't know that that's the right person for me personally. It's going to be different, I think, for different people, but that's who I want.
- [54:00]
OG
Well, there's likely to be a few times in your lifetime where the correct answer is don't do that or the correct answer is stay where you are. And that is really the hardest thing to do, especially now. I was talking to somebody a couple of weeks ago and short of a little blip in Covid, 2022 wasn't great. You know, it was down 20%, but it hardly felt down 20%. It wasn't like recessionary ass kicking like the recession in 2007 or Y2K. It just didn't feel as much of a beat down during 2022. It wasn't great. I look back over history right now and I see a ton of investors who have been investing since 2010. I see a ton of advisors who've got 15 years of experience since 2010 and have never had to counsel anyone or themselves live through a severe recession over any real length of time. You know, Covid sucked, but from a market standpoint, it was a non event. The inflationary time sucked, but from a recessionary market time period, it was pretty much a non event.
- [55:15]
Doug
I'm questioning your math on 15 years since 2010. That's impossible.
- [55:21]
OG
It doesn't seem like it.
- [55:22]
Doug
Come on.
- [55:23]
OG
You know what I watched yesterday? Complete sidebar. I flipped on Apollo 13.
- [55:27]
Doug
Oh, so good.
- [55:29]
OG
Great movie. How many years ago? Don't think of the year. How many years ago was Apollo 13 made?
- [55:34]
Doug
Like 11.
- [55:36]
OG
Yeah.
- [55:37]
Doug
More than four?
- [55:38]
Joe Saul-Sehy
More than four?
- [55:39]
OG
Yeah, yeah.
- [55:40]
Benjamin Brandt
30.
- [55:40]
Doug
Good God, shut up.
- [55:42]
OG
I think I can't prove this because I didn't look it up, but when is Apollo 13 based? Isn't it the 70s?
- [55:48]
Joe Saul-Sehy
It is. It's the 1970s. Yes. Yeah.
- [55:51]
OG
So I think the distance between today and when Apollo 13 was made is longer than the distance between when Apollo 13 was made and the actual event happened.
- [56:00]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Is it 1980s, Doug?
- [56:01]
Doug
It's 1970.
- [56:03]
OG
It was the 70s for sure.
- [56:04]
Doug
1970.
- [56:05]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Yes.
- [56:06]
Doug
April 11, 1970.
- [56:07]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Yeah. I was like, there's no way it's not the 70s. If we landed on the moon.
- [56:11]
Doug
Is 68, 69. July 21st, 1969.
- [56:15]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Like I said, 1969. Oh, gee. Continue.
- [56:18]
OG
Yeah. So Apollo 13 was made 25 years after the event, and it's been 30 years since Apollo 13's been made. So the difference between those two is greater anyways. That'll just knock your socks off. How the hell did you get so old, Doug? That's what I want to know.
- [56:33]
Joe Saul-Sehy
What happened? What happened?
- [56:34]
OG
Anyways, I like this as an idea. You can't sleep on the other things. You can't sleep on performance. You can't sleep on great financial planning. You can't make stakes and say, oh, I'm sorry, I forgot to do your RMD last year. Like, there's threshold competencies that you got to get right all the time. And look, people are human. People make mistakes. We do that on occasion. We had a mistake last year that, you know, I'm pretty sad that happened, but we made it right. And. And everybody was made whole in the event. But, you know, you gotta. To your point, Joe, it's really about process. And do you trust that person's. That person's guidance? Because.
- [57:08]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Well, I think. Because everything else after that does not matter if you don't trust them. Yeah.
- [57:12]
OG
I mean, it's like going to your doctor, right? If your doctor's like, hey, I need you to take this medicine. You're like, I don't know. Google said, what do you do after that as the physician? What do you say? Like, I don't. Okay, go with Google then. I don't know. Do your thing, bro. That doesn't make Google right and wrong and me right. It's just, you know, but part of.
- [57:30]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Trust is not blind trust. I mean, it's okay to have a discussion with your doctor to go, hey, I look this thing up. What about this? But then when they tell me why that doesn't fit me, I still have to trust them that they are, you know, they're telling me the truth.
- [57:45]
Doug
That's on the lines of, I'm glad you said blind trust, Joe, because it's what I've been dying to cut in with here is what do we tell our listeners to do or ask or learn about to build that trust? Because you can't just show up on day one and trust this person. If you're interviewing potential advisors because you don't really know them, like, what should our listeners be doing to start to feel confident and build that trust?
- [58:12]
Joe Saul-Sehy
I don't know that I have that methodology because for me personally, I know just the personality that I'm looking for. And I will trust that person more if they're the personality that just fits with me. Like, I think it's much more about know you than know them. Like, who am I going? Who are the people in my life that I trust the most and why do I trust the most? I trust those people the most when I feel like they have my back. And the way they prove they have my back is they go, no, Joe, you're wrong. No, right.
- [58:39]
Doug
But that takes time. Now you think of those people as your trust with your life because they're.
- [58:44]
Joe Saul-Sehy
No, but even when I first meet them, they come across as that type of person who's going to argue with me, you know, who's going to be the person who is going to. We're going to have a fun conversation. It's going to be a good conversation. They have some intelligence. And I could kind of get that right away. But you're right, there isn't any depth to it. So to oh, geez point, it's hard when you're interviewing people. It's freaking hard. Which means, oh gee, also, you got to be willing to let them go when they don't end up being the person that you think they are. Let me give you an example, because I don't think that this is, this is just financial planners. I think this is also other advisors in your life. My property, casually people, this is, this is. Remember, my house got robbed. My house got robbed. I found out that my property casualty company that I have here locally in Texarkana was just an order taker. Literally, when I asked her for help. I need to file this claim. Oh, I can't help you with that. You just gotta call away 100 number. It's amazing how quickly you could take my money and you could do everything except help me when I need it. And when I need it, complete failure. Like, horrible failure. So then I go with the 1, 800 number because I decide that I don't trust people when it comes to my property casualties. Right? And I could just have a 1, 800 number. 1, 800 number doesn't work at all either, by the way. That did not work for me. Works for a lot of people. Didn't work for me. I had nobody at all telling me, how do I pick the right stuff? How do I make sure I'm not getting ripped off? What are all these different things on my policy? Nobody knew the 1, 800 number of people. Didn't know. I couldn't find that person who could interpret Property Casual to me the way I want it interpreted. So then I found now. Now I have somebody. This woman has, like, the heart of a teacher, man. She is. And what's funny, she's not even with a. With a company that I love. She's a badass with a company that I tolerate, but she's great. She completely explained how we're going to pick my homeowner's insurance, what I'm really looking for, besides low premium. Right. What do I want on it? How does this stuff work? Absolutely love that. But, Doug, to your point, man, I had to search a little bit and. Yeah, I don't think. Do you have a rubric on that, OG?
- [60:54]
OG
Well, I think absent time and experience, you have to look for the clues to suggest that they know how to guide and counsel people like you. And the clues are that it's not their first rodeo. Right. The clues are that, and you said this earlier, that there's a system, there's a method to the madness, there's a process, there's support around that. You know, there's people that support the different angles, so to speak. There's something to be said for a little bit of social proof, too. I don't think a lot of us are getting phone calls at suppertime anymore like we used to, to get sold stuff, you know, I mean, we can all look on our phones, and when it says spam, you know, you just hit decline and block. And so how do we find these other professionals in our lives? Well, you ask people who are like you what they do. If you are selling a business and you're like, man, this is a complicated transaction. You're probably not going to do it on your own. You're going to ask your friend who also sold a business, and he'll say, oh, well, I use this M and A company. Or I had this attorney who looked it over, or I had this tax guy who helped with the tax calculations. You can do it yourself. But most of the time that's not a great idea. So there's that kind of social proof. There's the group of people that are like you. Honestly, I think we all just want to hang out with people that we like and that are like us. Is it a great fit to be a 30 year old looking for a financial planner and you hire a 70 year old? I mean, they might be really smart and super trustworthy, but probably not your people. You know what I mean? Not going through the same thing in life. And so I think there's something to be said about that. I mean, early on, to your point, Joe, I think it's really hard to pin that down. But you got a sense of it. You got a sense of it early. And, you know, I mean, when I use this doctor example all the time, because I just absolutely love that relationship that I have. I walked in and I was like, okay, this is the place for me. Like, I knew the guy, sat down, and, you know, we talked for 45 minutes in his office, not at an exam table. Like, hey, tell me about you. Like, what's going on? You know what I mean? Like, he spent all this time, and then he was like, all right, well, if you want to hire us, talk to my PA and we'll schedule an actual physical. There was no. He didn't jump me on the table. Let me check your heart rate. And it's like, all right, well, let's see what's going on in your world. And he was evaluating whether or not he wanted to work with our family. No different than I was trying to evaluate if I want to work with him. It was a very mutual conversation. I felt very comfortable with that. I didn't have any reason to trust him.
- [63:28]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Yeah. Best doctor I had was totally like that. It was so weird because every doctor I'd had before this, I'm sitting there half naked on the exam table, and the dude telling me stuff.
- [63:37]
Doug
Why?
- [63:37]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Well, he is. And.
- [63:39]
Doug
And that's the guy you trust.
- [63:42]
Joe Saul-Sehy
No. Yes.
- [63:45]
Doug
Don't make you do that, Joe.
- [63:47]
Joe Saul-Sehy
No. You know, you're sitting there and like, here's the deal. This guy literally goes, okay, go ahead and put everything back on, and we're gonna meet. My office. I'm like, what? Really? And then the nurse comes, walks me down to his office. We sit like adults at his desk then. And then he gives me the diagnosis, and he shows me stuff on the screen. I mean, so instead of the awkward crap, Doug, to your point, Instead of these awkward meetings with the doctor, this guy was completely different. Best doctor I had. Fantastic.
- [64:18]
Doug
I just want Steve to know there were three jokes that I abstained from Steve so that you wouldn't have to edit them out. That was for you.
- [64:25]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Well, and it made the point because you're right. It was super awkward. Every doctor I'd had before that was super awkward. I'm like, can I just put my clothes on? I really don't want. Please, God, just before you tell me.
- [64:36]
Doug
What'S wrong, I forgot to shave today.
- [64:38]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Just let me. You call that a bush?
- [64:42]
Doug
No. See, it was funnier when you didn't go there. God.
- [64:48]
Joe Saul-Sehy
All right, we got to go. We got to go.
- [64:50]
Doug
Just disgusting.
- [64:51]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Just a couple of quick things. We are having a meetup in Seattle. It's going to be in Bellevue, Washington. Details are@stacking benjamin.com meetup. Come join us. Click the link there so that we know that you're coming to join us. I'll be at retirement on Saturday. I'm 99. Sure as we record this, that deal sold out. But if you want to join us online no matter where you are, go to retirement.com and you can join us online anywhere where you are around the country. Not only Tom and Don, the host of Talking Real Money podcast who are host, but Apollo Lepescu will be one of the speakers. Paul Merriman's a speaker and yours truly. So you can join us at retirement in a couple weeks. OG and Doug are going to be at Heavenly, so come join them. Also stack ben.com yeah meetup.
- [65:38]
Doug
Did we just go out to the back porch and I didn't even realize it?
- [65:41]
Joe Saul-Sehy
I think we did. We're taking you out to the back porch after all these jokes you're trying to pull.
- [65:47]
Doug
Just to complete the thought, we're going to be in South Lake Tahoe at MCP's Tap Room Wednesday night the 19th from 6 to 8pm OG the Fin turn and me will be holding court there.
- [66:02]
Joe Saul-Sehy
So come do the McPeace takeover with Doug and OG stacking benjamin.com meetup gets you to both of those events and we'll have more. I'll be at economy in March. We'll start talking about that. But you know what? Economy sold out so probably won't talk much about that. All right, that's going to do it for today. Thank you everybody for hanging out. Please share this with somebody who really needs Benjamin Brands mentorship from this episode. What a great idea. Let's. Let's not think about retirement in the future. Let's think about it right now. Speaking of right now, we're retiring this podcast episode. Huh? Huh? Huh? No, no. Doug, what should we have learned today?
- [66:39]
Doug
Well Joe, first take some advice From Benjamin Brandt. Retirement isn't about tomorrow. Designed today so that it makes life easier for future you. Dream first, test now and then focus on the math second. Take some advice from our headline. Good advice is advice that you trust. Don't trust your advisors. Maybe it's time to figure out why. And focus on better relationships around you. If you can make better decisions, better returns on those decisions are sure to follow. But the big lesson, don't tell Joe's mom that you're down. You know why? I'll tell you why. She said, while you're down, why don't you clean that floor? She handed me a mop. Lady takes advantage of every opening. Thanks to Benjamin Brandt for joining us today for his book call Jeff. If he doesn't answer your call, we'll share a link to Retirement starts today on our Show Notes page. This show is the property of SB Podcasts, LLC, Copyright 2025, and is created by Joe Saul Sehive. Joe gets help from a few of our neighborhood friends. You'll find out about our awesome team@stackingbenjamins.com along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello.
- [68:01]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Oh, yeah.
- [68:02]
Doug
And before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don't take advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and we'll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show. Sa. Should we really be toasting them with coffee? Isn't that, like, bad luck? Shouldn't we be doing it with bourbon or something?
- [69:23]
Joe Saul-Sehy
I think we need a new. Yeah, we need a new deal there. It'll spice things up. Make the podcast podcast. Wow, that episode went quick. Yeah, you guys recorded for six minutes before you fell asleep.
- [69:38]
Doug
I think we're done.
- [69:41]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Nothing more to say. Be good money.
- [69:44]
Doug
Good, good show, everybody.
- [69:45]
Joe Saul-Sehy
Good night.