Rethinking Earning and Spending (with "Money With Katie"'s Katie Gatti Tassin) SB1694

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Stacking Benjamins Show - "Rethinking Earning and Spending" (SB1694) with Katie Gatti Tassen

Release Date: June 11, 2025
Hosts: Joe Saul-Sehy and OG
Guest: Katie Gatti Tassen, author of Rich Girl Nation and host of "Money With Katie"

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1. Introduction of Guest and Episode Theme (00:31 - 09:16)

The episode features Katie Gatti Tassen, known for her work on financial literacy targeted at women. The hosts, Joe Saul-Sehy and OG, introduce Katie as a mentor to their audience, highlighting her focus on debunking traditional personal finance tropes that often overlook women's unique financial challenges.

2. Katie’s Personal Journey and Inspiration (09:16 - 13:58)

Katie shares her transition from writing a general blog about life topics to focusing intensely on personal finance. She recounts a pivotal moment at a Money Diaries book event where, despite initial skepticism, she found herself deeply engaged and inspired by speakers like Lindsay Stanberry and Manisha Thakor. This experience solidified her passion for financial education, particularly for women, and motivated her to author Rich Girl Nation.

Notable Quote:
"I didn't think I was going to enjoy myself very much, but, boy, was I wrong."
— Katie Gatti Tassen (12:49)

3. The Hot Girl Hamster Wheel: Consumerism and Beauty Spending (18:31 - 24:42)

Katie introduces the concept of the "Hot Girl Hamster Wheel," describing how women often find themselves trapped in a cycle of spending on beauty and personal care products. She explains that these expenses, while seemingly minor individually, accumulate significantly over time, leading to substantial opportunity costs in long-term financial planning.

Notable Quote:
"Beauty is a depreciating asset. It will always require more money."
— Katie Gatti Tassen (24:04)

Katie emphasizes that the beauty industry's relentless marketing targets women, making it challenging to break free without recognizing the financial and psychological toll. She advocates for a "Hot Girl Detox," a strategic approach to reducing unnecessary beauty expenditures to reclaim both time and money.

4. Addressing the Wage Gap and Gender Roles in Finance (30:34 - 37:55)

The discussion shifts to the persistent wage gap and how traditional gender roles impact women's financial independence. Katie elaborates on research indicating that the wage gap is not solely due to women being poor negotiators but is significantly influenced by societal expectations and the distribution of unpaid labor within households.

Notable Quote:
"Women are penalized when they negotiate for more money."
— Katie Gatti Tassen (35:02)

She highlights that women often face backlash when advocating for higher salaries, contrasting this with the stigma men encounter when seeking more work-life balance. Katie underscores the importance of addressing these deep-seated biases to empower women in their financial journeys.

5. Negotiation Tactics for Women (37:55 - 43:35)

Katie provides actionable strategies for women to navigate salary negotiations effectively. She advises women to:

• Stop Talking After Making the Ask: Allow silence to create discomfort, encouraging employers to reconsider their offers without women undermining themselves by immediately negotiating further.

• Consider Switching Firms: Often, higher salaries can be achieved by exploring opportunities outside the current workplace rather than solely relying on internal negotiations.

Notable Quote:
"The best advice I've ever gotten was allow the uncomfortable silence, make the ask, say, what do you think? And then stop talking."
— Katie Gatti Tassen (38:47)

These tactics aim to help women overcome gender biases and secure fair compensation, contributing to bridging the wage gap.

6. Automation in Personal Finance (43:35 - 47:24)

Katie discusses the importance of automating savings and investments to build wealth consistently. She shares personal anecdotes about setting up automatic contributions to retirement accounts, which led to significant financial growth without requiring constant oversight.

Notable Quote:
"The power of automation... can completely transform your financial situation."
— Katie Gatti Tassen (42:07)

By removing the reliance on willpower, automation ensures that financial goals are met steadily, reinforcing disciplined saving and investing habits.

7. Understanding Depreciation in Personal Finance (47:24 - 57:23)

The hosts and Katie delve into the concept of depreciation, distinguishing between its implications for business owners and consumers. They explain how depreciation can be advantageous for businesses through tax write-offs but poses challenges for consumers purchasing depreciating assets like cars and technology.

Notable Quote:
"Depreciation that might be good today for some people in depreciation, that's maybe not so good if you're on the consumer side."
— Joe Saul-Sehy (52:12)

Katie uses the example of the Tesla Cybertruck to illustrate how early adopters can suffer significant financial losses due to rapid depreciation, emphasizing the need for consumers to consider long-term value and stability before making substantial purchases.

8. Conclusion and Key Takeaways (57:23 - 68:37)

The episode wraps up with recaps of the main discussions, encouraging listeners to:

• Assess and Reduce Unnecessary Spending: Identify areas where expenditure does not align with personal values or financial goals.

• Enhance Negotiation Skills: Utilize effective negotiation strategies to secure fair compensation and mitigate the wage gap.

• Automate Financial Processes: Implement automated systems to ensure consistent saving and investing, fostering long-term financial health.

The hosts express gratitude to Katie for her insights and encourage listeners to explore her book, Rich Girl Nation, for a deeper dive into achieving financial independence.

Closing Quote:
"If you're ready to take that first step or learn more about achieving financial wellness, visit Beyond Finance."
— Katie Gatti Tassen (07:20)

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Final Thoughts

This episode of The Stacking Benjamins Show provides a comprehensive exploration of the financial challenges women face, from consumerism and the wage gap to effective negotiation and automated savings. Katie Gatti Tassen’s insights offer practical solutions and inspire listeners to rethink their financial strategies to achieve lasting independence and fulfillment.

Transcript

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

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[OG]

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[Joe Saul-Sehy]

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[OG]

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[Joe Saul-Sehy]

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[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Question, where do they go next with this podcast?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

The guys were recently joined by legendary.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Musical genius Bruce Dickerson, who's agreed to.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Be the new producer of the Stack and Benjamin Show. They were all excited to meet him. Hey, fellas, I'm Bruce Dickerson. Yes, the Bruce Dickinson. You have a dynamite sound.

[OG]

Fantastic sound. I have only one suggestion.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

More cowbell.

[OG]

Live from Joe's mom's basement, it's the Stacking Benjamin. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And you know it's a great day when the Wednesday mentor is none other than the woman behind Money with Katie, Katie Gatti Tassen. Plus, in our headline, one truck is depreciating more quickly than ever. Which is it? How does depreciation work? Well, Will share a case study of depreciation in action. And you already know it's coming. I'm gonna top this whole podcast with some absolutely riveting trivia. And now, two guys who are here to help you put away the credit card and stash some money in a Roth IRA. It's Joe and O. J.J. j.J.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Hey there, Stackers. Happy Wednesday. We're so happy you made it. Sit back and relax because we are about to. Man light it up with the woman behind Money with Katie. Can't wait for that mentor Wednesday. But first, let's meet these characters that are hanging out with me on this fine day. Mr. OG how are you, man?

[Doug]

Happy to Be here. Thanks for having me, dude.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Is it exciting?

[Doug]

First time caller, longtime listener.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Is it exciting having a high school graduate in the family?

[Doug]

I mean. No, sure.

[OG]

No, he said this. He said this before he said congratulations on doing what you were largely expected to do all along.

[Doug]

I mean, we're elbow deep in summer already, so that's. Celebration is over.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I heard you telling your middle son while we were between recordings, congrats on being an upperclassman.

[Doug]

Yep. And he was like, whatever, we've got. Well, angry 16 year old.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Is that wild how that happens? Just. Yeah. Life is serious, dad.

[OG]

I mean, kids don't realize that because they're just on the train. Right? They're just in the flow. I'm just one more year of school. My God, this is never going to end. What's the big deal, dad? Of course I made it from 10th to 11th grade. It's like saying congratulations on. On finding your exit from rush hour traffic. Yeah, that was going to happen eventually.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I made it. Well, still, congratulations worthy to all the stackers that either are graduating or you've got kids graduating. Super exciting time of the year that we have just went through. Got to go to Og's son's party, by the way. Doug. That was fun.

[OG]

You know what would have been really fun? Getting an invite.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Watching Og do keg stands at his kids graduation party was pretty wild. And I never knew they could fill those things full of Woodford. But Og found a way to celebrate in the best way possible.

[Doug]

No, Joe, you've got me all wrong. I quit drinking like Billy Bob Thornton from Landman.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Stick with beer.

[Doug]

You want something stronger?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I quit drinking. I'll stick with beer.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

You know there's alcohol in that, right?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It's a Michelob Ultra. There's more alcohol in orange juice. I ain't judging, buddy. I mean, I've been on the wagon eight years. I'm just saying, drinking beer, still drink. Well, I tell you what, bud. You watch me drink six of these sons and I'll come back in here.

[OG]

Tomorrow night, drink six whiskeys and you.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Tell me if you notice a difference. I'll take your word for it. I gotta say, Doug, I noticed a difference.

[OG]

You know, Andre the Giant holds the record for the most beers drunk in one sitting in modern times.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Really?

[Doug]

Yep.

[OG]

In real life, 119 beers at a bar in Pittsburgh.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Figure out why that guy died young, right? Wow. Holy moly. Well, we're not going to do that today. We're gonna talk. We're gonna talk money with.

[Doug]

That's what you think with Katie Gaddy.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Tas and now Katie's audience is largely women. Her new project is aimed at women. She finds a great way though to broaden that out for us. But a lot of this discussion is stuff that frankly, in a lot of the books that I see come out, a lot of the, the things that I read, presented in old tropes that really are not heavily researched and I just have groaned, just, just grown. I see a new work and I go, oh man, no. Oh man, no. Katie shines a great light on things like the wage gap and about women and consumerism, really diving into what we talked about on Monday. But today she's bringing that all home in a way that I think you're going to find very inspiring, like I did when I started diving into this work. So Katie Gaddy Tassen, she's our mentor. But before we get to Katie, we've got a couple sponsors who make sure this is free for all of our stackers. You going to get some great audio and you don't pay a dime for it. So we're going to hear from them. And then from Money with Katie to Mom's Basement. Katie Gady Tassen I know personally that debt isn't just about money. It's about stress and sleepless nights and that constant weight on your shoulders. It can affect your relationships. It can shred your confidence. Truly. It can overshadow your whole life. So know that if you've ever felt any of that, you're not alone. There are millions of Americans struggling with debt. But there's a solution that can help. Beyond Finance was founded with a simple mission to help those struggling with overwhelming debt find a pathway to financial freedom. They can help you escape that endless cycle of making just minimum payments. Typical Beyond Finance clients see their payments on enrolled debt lowered by 40% or more. So you can expect immediate relief and the chance to start saving. The team prioritizes a hands on compassionate approach coupled with a focus on helping you get out of debt as soon as possible, save money and establish long term financial wellbeing. They offer personalized 24. 7 support and financial wellness sessions with accredited financial therapist and you know you're in good hands with a trust pilot rating of 4.6 out of 5 stars. So if you're ready to take that first step or learn more about achieving financial wellness, visit Beyond Finance. Visit. Not available in all states. Fees vary by state. Results may vary. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

You chose to hit play on this podcast today.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Smart Choice.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Progressive loves to help people make smart choices. That's why they offer a tool called.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Auto Quote Explorer that allows you to compare your Progressive car insurance quote with.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Rates from other companies so you save time on the research and can enjoy savings.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

When you choose the best rate for.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

You, give it a try after this.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

[e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy and I'm super happy she's here. Katie's back. How are you back?

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

I'm so good. Thank you for having me back.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Mom has missed you. We've missed you. I'm super happy that you're here, but you've got a lot of balls in the air right now. You are going crazy.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Tell me about it. Publishing and writing a book while also doing my normal workload for money with Katie and then like launching another show. And yeah, it was maybe not the best time management skills. So now my. My work ethic is having to cash checks that a very ambitious version of me wrote about a year ago.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You're like, what did I get into? What's going on?

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

But it's good. It's all good. I'm thrilled to be here and, you know, living the dream, as they say.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, well, let's dive into this topic. And actually, it's funny just from one creator to another, you know you're succeeding when you get haters. Right? You know you're succeeding. And I love you.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Dedicated your book to a hater, a 2018 troll.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yes, Katie holds a grudge.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

You know what? I do. I do hold a grudge. I will never forget this person because it was my first experience with somebody anonymously online being. Being rude to me. And it wasn't even on moneywithkatie.com it was on my previous blog. I had had this blog just for fun. I used it to post life musings, to talk about relationships, to talk about travel. And basically my whole world changed when I discovered personal finance. And I just felt so deeply in love with the topic and became pretty obsessed with it. And so basically overnight, all the topic subject matter on this blog transitioned to money. I think people were who, you know, like 10 people that I knew from college that read it were like, why is she. What is going on? Like, why is she writing so much about money?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Why she sells some money like it's Amway. Come on.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Yeah. And there was some guy who was publishing under an anonymous commenter name that would just relentlessly badger me on these posts and basically told me to stop I obviously didn't take his advice, but as I was writing the dedication for the book, I was like, you know what? You know who this book is for? It's for that guy seven years ago who was like, you should stop writing about money. You should really keep this to yourself.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

When I opened it up and I saw that, I'm like, this whole thing's gonna be badass. And it was. And it was. But that. That was great.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Thank you.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Something I didn't know about your history, and I always get so fired up about what inspires people. And as you know, Katie, from being in front of a group of people who rely on you, like, you never know what you're going to write or what you're going to do that's going to inspire somebody. You got inspired going to a live event with some people. Got. This is horrible. But I remember this book tour like it was yesterday. The one that you went to. Like, I.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Really?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, yeah, Lindsay came on the show.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Oh, my God.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Manisha's been on the show before. But anyway, you were at an event for a fantastic book, what a Small World.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Yes. My work friend at the time, one of the only young women that I had ever really talked to about money. Because we were kind of in a similar position. I think we made, like, identical salaries. We had gotten credit cards at the same time. So we were. It was kind of blind leading the blind, to be honest. But she was like, you should come to this book event. It's called Money Diaries. And for, I think it was 15 or $20, they give you a copy of the book. You get to go to this event and see these people speak. And there's also free wine. And I was like, amazing. I'm there. So we go together. And it was one of those things where typically, I've been to things like this before, you know, where I'm kind of, like, looking at the clock, and I'm like, when can I get out of here?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I want to also. Katie, it's a money event. Like, how exciting can this be, right? Like, come on.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Especially because I knew nothing at this point about money besides the fact that I wanted to have a lot of it. So I didn't think I was going to enjoy myself very much, but, boy, was I wrong. I sat in that crowd, and I listened to Lindsay and Manisha speak, and I just thought, oh, my God, this is fascinating and so powerful. And I can't deny the fact that I just have a very visceral attraction to this subject, and I want to keep Learning about it. I don't want this to be the last thing that I attend or participate in. That's personal finance for women. And so that really was a real turning point for me, which is exciting because I'm doing a book event on June 11th with Lindsey Stanberry now at the 92nd Street Y in New York. So it is, it's gonna be a very full circle moment for sure. But yeah, I think it's just really, really cool the way in which we can individually inspire other people with our work. And you just never know how your interest in something is going to change someone else's life or their career trajectory. So be loud and proud about it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Absolutely. Whenever anybody asked me like, oh, it seems like there's a lot of podcasts, I'm like, but nobody's heard you. Nobody knows your story, man. If you can open up about your story. You know, in Rich Girl Nation you write that you polled your audience, you surveyed your audience. The Average income is $180,000. Media net worth $311,000. That is kick ass. It's fantastic. But it also leads to a question which has frustrated me for a long time. When I look at our stackers, it's the same thing. It's people who are on the right path, doing well. There's this whole audience, Katie, that you and I need to reach. And it's so hard to reach those people. Like, how do you get them to go to the Lindsey Stansberry event? You know, how do you get them to listen to money with Katie or to read your kick ass newsletter? Like, how do we get more people to actually pay attention?

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Well, free wine got me. So we could start there.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

A podcast with free wine.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

It's a good question. Yeah. Because I think about the general population in a few different buckets. So for me, there is some portion of Americans in particular for whom all the good advice in the world that I have to offer them is probably not going to help them. I'm thinking of low wage workers, bottom 25%. I can teach them about the 4% rule. It makes no difference because they need higher income. Right. They need higher wages. They're probably not going to seek out this type of personal finance advice. They know it's not applicable. Then you have the people that I think will listen and read and follow along now and who buy my wealth planner. And the material really resonates with them. You kind of listed out some of the characteristics. They are often earning a lot of money. They're already on this path. They've seen, seen it work already. So there's like a belief in the power of compounding. And you know, the compound interest charts that I saw at 20 and was like, holy crap, I'm going to be so wealthy if I start doing this right now. But I think the toughest group to reach are those who are maybe in the like 60 percentile to like 80 group where they're earning enough to invest. They might not realize they're earning enough to invest. And so that gap which I experienced personally when I was starting out, you don't think that it applies to you? You don't think it's applicable to you? That was something that I am very thankful for. The financial independence, retire early, community for is that really showed me that I did earn enough to invest even on $60,000 a year as a single person, I could invest. I just needed a plan. There are certainly people that I want to reach that I haven't yet. And I think the way that I have found potentially to do that is by speaking to the things that are happening all around them, speaking to the challenges of the economy, speaking to the real world and making sense of it. It's this sense of helping people who might not think this information is for them feel seen in some capacity. I'm not glossing over these challenges. I'm not saying they don't exist. You know, the critiques that they may have are legitimate and real. And so here's what we can do about that effectively versus everything's fine. You know, what's wrong with you? How have you figured this out yet?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Right. Well, you clearly dive into some of these issues. I mean, a stat that you write in mixed households, the Survey of Consumer Finances, mixed sex marriages, found that 56% of husbands were designated as most knowledgeable about household finances. So many of my friends are women writing specifically to women, Katie. And you write that with all the kick ass women that we have leading this charge, it ain't getting better. That was in 1992. It was 53% of households reported this. Now it's 56%. It's actually the statistics getting worse.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Yeah, yeah, it has, it is. It's tough. And I think that there are, I, I see kind of gender role orthodoxy and ideas about women's roles and what women should be doing or are, quote, unquote, supposed to be doing as very tied to these economic problems. There was some research that came out, I think in February that showed that the number of people who believe both women and men, who believe that women should return to their traditional roles in society has been, how about the whole.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Trad wife movement online?

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Yeah, I mean, it's like doubled since 2022. So in a very short amount of time, we've seen this real resurgence in ideas about traditional femininity and masculinity. And if you can believe it, Joe, managing money is a traditionally masculine endeavor in this sphere of influence. So what I really wanted to convey in that chapter where I write about that, which I believe is chapter three, Knowledge is Power, is that this trend is most alarming when we see it in households where the woman is actually the primary financial provider, where she is the main source of income and is still more likely to defer the long term financial planning decisions to a male partner, often citing something to the effect of, well, I don't know enough to participate equally or it doesn't come naturally to me. And something that I always want to drive home is, well, it's not natural for anybody. Everybody has to learn how to do this. Nobody comes out of the womb understanding how to build a, you know, properly diversified portfolio. This is not something that, like, if.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You'Re going to reproductive. Yeah.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

That like, you're going to be, you know, just more naturally good at this. So I want to reassure, and if there are, because I speak to these women all the time, that if that's you, which I have a feeling is probably not your listeners, but if that is you and you're reading this book, that you are assured that there really is nobody better than you to make these types of decisions about your long term financial future.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It was so sad when I would walk into, back when I was a financial planner and I walk into meetings and generally it was the husband that would show up and he's like, yeah, she doesn't really care about this. I'm like, we're not meeting. They'd always be, excuse me.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Good for you.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, because here's what would happen, Katie, is that he would die traditionally, but in some cases she would die and she's taken care of everything. He's taking care of everything. And then you know what? I didn't care about the gender role. If I'm your advisor and you don't know who the hell I am, and I'm the guy that knows more than you do about where your money is, it's wrong. It's wrong and it's not going to work. So it was so, so, so frustrating. You begin the journey, speaking of that, by looking at your expenses, which is obviously the place to look, and you start where you were told to start, which was housing, auto expenses, groceries and food. What did you find when you started looking at your expenses? When it came to the, quote, big three areas?

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Yeah, well, you know, like you said, that is always the area that we tell people to start because traditionally those are the most expensive things that any household is paying for. And so I followed that advice and I was like, huh, that's funny. My housing is under the 28% benchmark. My car, I'm living within my means there. I'm good. You know, I'm not driving Alexis, I'm covered. Food spending, again, pretty reasonable. But as I did that personal finance audit and I got everything down on paper, there was something that jumped out at me that I had never seen anyone talk about in all of the personal finance dogma that I was intravenously, you know, ingesting. And that was my beauty and personal care budget. And I was like, huh, 10% of my income on beauty and personal. You know, that's interesting. You know, Brad and Jonathan didn't warn me about this one. Let me, let me actually go back and recalculate that. I don't think that's right. So I tally it all up again and it's like, oh, no, no, it is 10%. So at the time, I was spending around $300 a month on beauty and personal care. Now granted, I lived in Dallas, Texas, which is very much a blonder and bigger the hair, the closer to God type of city. So I was pretty intense in my routines, we shall say. So I tallied all up, I'm spending $300 a month, I start thinking about my take home pay and I'm like, whoa. I think I am like working for an entire month every year just to support all of these appointments. And that was a real aha moment for me. So I spent some time really thinking about this and experimenting with how much I'm spending on hair and nails and eyelashes and tanning and waxing and I mean, God, you can spend three times that today with the way that cosmeceuticals have exploded. Filler, Botox, you name it. I learned that at the time, even around $300 a month was about average.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I was just going to say that you found out that your experience wasn't abnormal.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Nope, it was very in line with the average. And so I sit down, I use this compounding returns calculator that I had recently learned how to use and I find that, oh, wow, if I do this for an entire 40 year working career, I am Giving up a million dollars. That is $1 million opportunity cost. And that was enough for me to be like, all right, yeah, that's not a trade off I'm willing to make. I need to really sit down and think about this. And so I call that process the hot girl hamster wheel. Because as your women listeners may well know, a lot of these things are almost coercive in nature. Once you get your hair colored, once you get your nail, you know, acrylics applied to your nails, the. These are things that if you do them once, you kind of have to keep doing them because if you stop, the grown out highlights look worse than no highlights at all. The grown out acrylics or gel manicure looks worse than nothing. So you kind of have to keep going. Thus the hamster wheel metaphor. And so.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Right, the dark stripe down the middle. Yes.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

So you're familiar too.

[Doug]

Yes.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, I get it all the time. No, I'm kidding. But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

The point is, there is an entire industry that is almost exclusively interested in marketing its products to women. And if you are a woman who is dedicated to financial independence, it's worth taking a closer look at how and why and what you're spending on these things. Because even beyond the financial ramifications, and this is, I think, the conversation, people are more comfortable having that beauty standards do psychologically and emotionally impact people negatively. So I'm basically just saying we should also be talking about how they financially impact you negatively. The economic negative impacts are arguably just as damaging as the psychological ones.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, it's just the realization a, that there's this million dollars that I know I look pretty everyone, but I don't even worry about that. The average woman does an average million dollars in net worth over my career. It's funny, we just had a discussion a couple of weeks ago with Bonnie Hammer, the. The vice chairwoman for NBC Universal, and she was talking about how they would take the executives to one of their theme parks for one of those Universal theme parks. And she got the idea for her book, the Lies Women Are Told at Work. Katie, on this roller coaster, the velociraptor, when none of the other women executives would get on it because they were going to be judged by the way they looked. And you can't have your hair blown out, your mascara running, everything when you're an executive of a company. The rest of the roller coaster was all dudes who, you know, just, hey, let's all get on the roller coaster. Something I'd never, never even thought about. But Even so, just this idea that much like in Deadwood, you know, the old, the old west, like the people making money in Deadwood weren't these gold miners, they were the people mining the miners. Like women are actively mined by these, quote, self care companies to get into.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Your wallet for sure. And that is a really important piece of this that I try to convey is that I am not saying critically this. I think that a very common trope among women in money is the like, oh, women be shopping, women be spending. That's not what I'm saying. I think that this is a really insidious industry and that women often participate and go along with it because they sense that there are very real ramifications for not adhering to these beauty norms. So it's not as though you just have a bunch of like frivolous spenders out here doing it for fun. I mean, we receive signals every time we leave our homes that the way that we look matters. And there's research about, you're more likely to have mentors at work, you're more likely to have positive outcomes in the legal system. You're more likely to, you know, find a partner if you adhere closely to this beauty standard. So the benefits are real. But I think the ROI is not good. I think that the ROI that you are going to get for the money and time you spend on this is actually going to pale in comparison to what you're giving up in order to get it. Beauty is the form of capital that women are encouraged to shamelessly pursue the most. And something that I always like to point out in hot girl hamster wheel conversations is that beauty is a depreciating asset. It will always require more money. If you are investing all your capital in beauty, you are guaranteeing a future of degradation, which, as we know, is not what happens to money. As you get older and that money gets older, it gets bigger and better for you. It's a balance. It's something that I think women need to be aware of and need to feel like they can and should opt out.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I was thinking, even as I was reading, Even for the 55% of our audience that are men, people that are broke wear the brand. People that are wealthy own the brand for women. I feel like this industry, based on what I read, is these people are getting money out of your wallet. Owning the company is the thing. But I'm wondering, how do you, how do you renegotiate that? Like, how do you change that when the standards are so high? Like standards that to your point, it isn't like women can just go, okay, I'm not going to pay any attention, totally. And tomorrow, then everybody's like, what happened to her? You know what I mean?

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So in chapter one, we do a hot girl detox. That's what I call it. And this is the process that I followed. So I sat down, I listed all the things that I was spending my time and money on. I ranked them power, ranked them most important to least important. My highlights were the most important to me. At the bottom of the list was, like, tanning and nails. And I just went one by one and I took away one thing at a time, Canceled the appointment, stopped buying the product, or canceled the auto ship on whatever it was. And I said, I'm just going to experiment with this. I'm going to get curious. I'm not going to hold myself to anything crazy. But I do want to see how it feels to revert back to my natural self. And let's see what happens. What I learned was that as I started taking things away, that, yes, the financial impact was definitely felt, but the bigger impact was the amount of time I was saving. I had not realized how much time and energy I had been devoting to this. I think that curiosity and that experimentation is a really good place to start. There really is no hard and fast rule on this. I mean, now I'm at a point in my career, in life where I could do all those things again and afford them and it wouldn't disadvantage me financially. But I don't, because I am now happier without them. Like, I actually, I have found that, A, I enjoy not having to spend my time and energy on it, not just the money. B, my life really didn't change. I think that a lot of people, once they start paring back, realize that, okay, at the margins, maybe, but really you will be surprised, I think, by how little that stuff actually matters. But I acknowledge that it definitely can be scary, it can feel risky, and it can feel vulnerable. There were women that I interviewed for the book who talked about how much money they had saved once they decided to go through this process. And it was really. It was really powerful. I mean, there was one woman who basically said, yeah, I stopped dyeing my hair. I just let my hair be gray. And I actually feel more confident now because of it, because I know that I am not contributing to a system that hurts women, that tells them that they have to look young to be valuable. And she said, I hope my son recognizes and takes on that lesson too. And so I think that that's. It's deeper than money. And when we can see these systems for what they are and see through the matrix, it can feel actually quite empowering to choose not to participate.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I love the value discussion. What piece of this do I value? In which piece am I just running the hamster wheel? And by the way, I also love. And people haven't seen the book yet, but the fact that it's Hot girl, tm, the TM every time just gets me well, so next you tackle earning more money. The thing I love about that is that when I was a financial planner, there were just times when it was an income problem. Katie.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Totally.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Where I'd look at my client and I'm like, you know what? We can pinch pennies. We can figure out what needs to go off the ship. But you know what? This is an earning thing. And of course, you then bring up the wage gap and immediately. And please hear me through everybody, before you cancel me on this.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Okay?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I immediately went. And I'm not talking to you, Katie. I'm talking about our audience. I'm like, oh, God, I'm sick of talking about the wage gap. And not that the wage gap doesn't exist. And not that there isn't this double standard. There's completely double standard. I'm like, what are Katie and I going to do about this? But like a breath of fresh air, you tackle this from a much more scientific place and dive in much deeper than these bull talking points that I see over and over and over. And by the way, you point these out in the book, which I was so happy to see, like, okay, it's deeper than this. It's harder than this. So let's go there. And then I went from this is, oh, God. To oh, yeah, yeah, let's do this. Let's start off with the good news. Things are looking up for young women right now. If you're a young woman in America. Things are looking. I mean, not as rosy as they could be, but it's getting better.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

It is getting better. The reason why I wanted to talk about the wage gap is because there is kind of a common misconception that what the wage gap data represents is that a woman and a man doing the same job will be paid differently. And it's not that that never happens, but that's not really the source of the problem. A lot of where this comes in is the way that women and men's lives unfold as they start families and as they take on caregiving responsibilities. So the gender wage gap is largest for women who are like in their 40s and 50s. It is true, right, that women spend less time doing paid work than men, I think around 57 minutes fewer per day. But they are spending about twice as much time doing unpaid labor in their homes. So that is going to contribute to an earnings differential. You're going to end up with fewer resources just by the very nature of, at the aggregate, how people are spending their time. I think Nobel prize winning economist Claudia golden has done some of the most interesting work on this and getting into the family dynamics that people are essentially looking at the incomes in a family and looking at the caregiving responsibilities and trying to assess the best economic path at the most rational path for their family to follow. And what she finds is that oftentimes, even if both people continue to work one parent more often, the woman will downshift a little bit at work, will take the less greedy job. Sometimes this is because she's already being paid less and the man's job is more demanding. Sometimes it is a matter of personal choice. But that, that over time is what leads to this disparity. And this is true even in cases when the men would prefer to be the primary caretaker or would prefer to be the caretaker that is home more often that. One of the interesting things that I found in the research that I did was that women are penalized when they negotiate for more money. Men are penalized when they negotiate for more time. So if you are a man negotiating for more flexibility at work because you would like to spend more time with your family, you are likely to kind of face the same pushback that a woman asking for more money might. So it really comes down to just behaving in gender incongruous ways. And I see that as really holding everybody back. But obviously this is a book about money, so I'm going to focus on the group that is earning less because of this dynamic.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Sure.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Women do not earn less as we've established, because they are bad negotiators. We know that that's true. But women can earn more by negotiating in ways that more effectively navigate that gender bias.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

This was if we hold on for just a second because I do want to get there, but I want to stop on what you said because I found this so compelling. Like, you know, I've always heard this thing that now has become eye roll to me, which is, you know, women just don't want to rock the boat, so they don't ask for money enough. Not true.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Correct.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And when women go to negotiate. Just the fact. And you said this very quickly. And I just want to pause on this for everybody. Women are penalized when they negotiate. They're less likely to get a raise, not by a ton, but by a little bit. Which is the interesting thing to me, Katie, in your book, was not that a. It's a high five. When we first start working, everybody starts off as equal. And then for women, it's death by a thousand paper cuts, right? These little tiny paper cuts, these little, this little bit of friction here, a little bit of friction there that creates the more men at the top of the ladder, more women at the bottom of the ladder, more likely to get a raise, less likely to get a raise, more likely to get the promotion, less likely to get the promotion. This is not a thing that is a one, one. You know, I missed out on the one big negotiation.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Right, right. The narrative is much more complex, much more complex than made out to be. And I think that Claudia golden has, in her research kind of says there is gender bias, like for sure. And in those, in those negotiations there are ways that you can navigate that. But I don't know. I think my perspective is that most people are doing their best and most people are trying to be fair. I don't think it is some big conspiracy. But I think that in general part of the issue for everybody, not just women, though women stand more to gain from this is degraded labor power. Women and men are going to have a harder time negotiating if they're individuals going up against a corporation than part of say a union. And we know that all unionized workers earn more than non unionized workers, but women, especially women in unions, earn more. So I think the wage gap, we'll say is smaller within unions. So I think that even then, one of the takeaways that if we widen the aperture for this conversation and look at all the different factors that are going to depress wages for everybody and particularly women, we get to have, I think more interesting conversations about real world tactics that can help people improve this in their own lives. And I don't think that we get there if we kind of stay on the surface with the 83 cents on the $100.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And that's why I found this such a breath of fresh air. Is that to your point, and you said this earlier, there's these cultural norms and these biases and we need to be aware of them. I mean we. And then once we're aware of them, then we can focus on fixing it. You can't fix it unless you Know.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

How it's hard to understand it. You have to understand where it's coming from.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

The fact that if a man goes and asks for more time to be at home, he's more likely to be told no is really the counter. I mean, it's the exact point that you're talking about with wages. So you get tactical here that there's some ways that women can fight this, and a big one is you're more likely to score more money by looking at maybe a different firm that you don't work at yet.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Yeah, I mean, there are a couple things. At the general level, the one piece of advice that I think every woman should know that I think about every time I go into a negotiation now is stop talking. And I know that that sounds really brash, but hear me out. Women are socialized, sometimes subconsciously, to put other people at ease and to make people feel comfortable, to be accommodating. That can be a nice trait. But when you're asking for more money, that is an inherently uncomfortable and somewhat adversarial conversation. And so often what they see is that women will make the ask, but then be more likely to kind of then, like, immediately begin negotiating against themselves to, like, make the conversation a little more comfortable.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, you know, if you can't do that much, maybe just. And I understand that this might be a bad time.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

I can't understand if you can't do this because I know economy's bad. Whatever. The best advice I've ever gotten was allow the uncomfortable silence, make the ask, say, what do you think? And then stop talking. That that is a really powerful small change. That no matter what the negotiation is for what you're asking for, that that is like a little rhetorical tweak that's worth making. But yes, I think the bigger picture thing and the more specific, when you are trying to earn more money, you are probably going to be offered more if you switch firms. We know that this is true now, but that negotiating in a company or with a hiring manager where you don't have any track record, you don't have anything to point to, to say like, oh, this is why you should pay me more than you're offering me, that can be challenging because you don't really have anything to point to. So, yes, in chapter two, there are a lot of kind of a step by step of how to think about negotiating in that sort of situation when you are trying to negotiate outside of.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Your existing company, man, and just shut up.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

It's so simple. But yeah, every single time I mean, it still is something that I have to really, you're. I mean, I'm biting my tongue. Like, I so badly want to be like. But I totally get it. And it's fine if you can't. It just. It's. It's tough. It's tough.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I must be a woman at heart, too, because I do the same thing. I'm like, well, you know, if it's going to be. Yeah. One other thing tactically factors throughout the book, and that's this idea of automation, you know, And I don't know if you actually state how big automation is, but it seems like setting up systems. Katie, really, really, really important for our average stacker out there.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Yeah, definitely. The chapter that I spend the most time getting into the strategy and laying out a very specific roadmap is chapter six. It's called Don't Outlive youe Assets. It rests on the assumption that. That you are contributing in a. I also just like a dollar cost averaging way. Right. That you're. You're making the decision one time, you are identifying the amount. Hopefully you're maxing out a 401k in an IRA and contributing something to a brokerage account too, if you can swing it. That is how the strategy really comes together and how you benefit from the flexibility on the drawdown that I outline in great detail. But I think that the automation piece is really critical for people who earn a regular income. If you know how much money is going to be coming in every month, there's almost no reason not to do this. This was a critical, critical piece, particularly in the beginning of my financial journey where I had a system set up where I got paid on the 5th and the 20th. And I decided, okay, this is how much is going to go into this account. This is how much is going to go into this account. And the auto transfer has happened on the 6th, the 7th, and the 8th, and then the 21st, the 22nd, and the 23rd, and it was like, whoosh. The money was gone before I had a chance to do anything with it. And so I had this friend who I think saw the progress I was making or was aware that I was really into this stuff, probably because of the blog. She was like, hey, I just. I don't. I don't know what I'm doing. Can you.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Is this the peloton instructor?

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She's like, it's so cool. It was such a wild moment. So she, you know, whips out her bank of America account and I'm Kind of wide eyed looking at those credits to the checking account, I was like, damn. Because at the time I made $60,000 a year, she made $80,000 a year. So I'm like, I know she can invest, right? Like we have very similar lifestyles. I'm investing a lot, she can definitely invest. And I'm just kind of blown away at how much money she has coming in. So I get her permission, right? We're sitting there with her laptop and I'm like, I'm going to set up some automatic contributions for you. Let me open a Roth IRA and a brokerage account for you with betterment. You don't have to do anything, you don't have to know anything. You just have to not turn these off, right? That's all you have to do. So we set them up and I don't talk to her about it again. I mean, that was it. Like we really didn't talk about it again.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

One time, bam. Done.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

One time, done. 18 months pass because this was in 2019. So now we're like well into the pandemic. She's a fitness instructor, so that's not going super hot in 2020 and the PPP loan has run out, right? So she's like, I gotta get money from somewhere. She texts me one day that August and she's like, oh my God, I have $30,000 in that account. She couldn't believe it. I mean, I couldn't believe it. We were both stunned. So I think the power of automation, of taking the willpower out of it, taking the discipline out of it, making the good decision once and then letting it run, I have seen that firsthand in my life and in others lives. Just absolutely transform their financial situation.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

0 to $30,000.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Crazy. 18 months. I mean, just wild, wild.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

So, so exciting. And you could do it to Stackers. And you know what? Katie has a new book that came out yesterday to help you. It is Rich Girl Nation and available everywhere yesterday. Katie, thanks so much for mentoring our Stacker family today. I super appreciate everything you do.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Well, I'm so glad to be here. Thank you so much for having me, Joe. It was a pleasure as always. And yeah, read Rich Girl Nation. And for the 55% of your listeners who are rich boys, give it to your wives and girlfriends or your daughters.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Perfect gift.

[OG]

Hey there Stackers. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And as we draw closer to Independence Day, I remember my first day of independence. I was 18 years old and ready to rumble. Sadly, the El Camino ran out of gas as I rumbled down the road and I had to walk back and ask Joe's mom for gas ass money. But then, then I was independent, baby, until I until I realized I didn't have any money for food. So I went back to Joe's house and asked Joe's mom for an egg salad sandwich, which, you know, when you think about it, it's also a chicken salad sandwich. Then she think about it. Then she helped me place an ad in the paper and I, I did.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Joe just got it and I'm wondering which sandwich came first.

[OG]

And then Joe's mom, she helped me place an ad in the paper and I ended up in a rewarding job working with juvenile delinquents. I just stood on the corner and told him when the cops were coming. Oh, they paid me handsomely. Anywho, enough about me. I was just thinking that way back on Today's Date In 1776, the Continental Congress created a committee to draft the Declaration of Independence. Here's maybe the hardest question we've done that doesn't happen on a Friday. Name someone on that committee not named Jefferson, Adams or Franklin. I'll be back right after I go fold Joe's mom's laundry. It's laundry day.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

This episode is brought to you by Navy Federal Credit Union. Navy Federal can help you find and finance the right vehicle with ease with Navy Federal's car buying service powered by Truecar, you can find the vehicle that's right for you as you search through inventory, compare models and you could get an amazing rate when you finance with Navy federal. Visit navy federal.org truecar to learn more. Navy Federal Credit Union Our members are the mission Navy Federal is insured by NCUA Credit and collateral subject to approval Small business owners state farms there with small business insurance to fit your specific needs. Whether you're starting a new venture or growing an existing one, State Farm helps you choose the right coverage to protect what matters most. Working with a local State Farm agent helps you understand your coverage options. Offering local support to help you achieve your goals. Focus on turning your passion into a thriving business. Knowing your insurance can change as your business grows. Stay Farm here to help you succeed with your business. Like a good neighbor. State Farm is there and now work from our sponsors at Betterment. When investing your money starts to feel like a second job. Betterment steps in with a little work life balance. We're the automated investing and savings app that handles the work so you don't have to. Your money's diversified and optimized Day after day, again and again. Because your money doesn't need a work life balance. You do. Plus, new investing customers can get up to $1,000 with a qualifying deposit. Terms apply. Make your money hustle with Betterment. Get [e-mail] Investing involves risk. Performance not guaranteed.

[OG]

Hey there, stackers. I'm laundry sheet lover and guy who can fold with the best of them. Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. Actually, I can. I can fold the crap out of stuff. I'm good. Laundry day. It's the only day you can can say, I love the smell of this day. Fresh, clean clothing and everything all neat and tidy. Let's tidy up today's trivia while we're at it. On today's date. Way back in 1776, the Continental Congress created a committee to draft the Declaration of Independence. Name anyone, I mean anyone on that committee not named Adams, Franklin, or Jefferson. You can't do it, can you? It's impossible. The answer? There were two. Roger Sherman and Robert R. Livingston also served on the committee, which I've heard from a reliable source, didn't have a single PowerPoint presentation and whipped up a completed document in only 17 days without ChatGPT. How the hell did they do that? Kids, there once was a time when people wrote for themselves. I know. They were total ninjas. It's like a superpower. And now to today's headline with Joe.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And OG that is amazing.

[OG]

No PowerPoint.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And the fact that I was. Yeah, yeah. Not that there were two people on that committee that largely have been forgotten. Doug. But second, no PowerPoint. Like, how do you get through that?

[OG]

Well, I don't know how anybody was able to synthesize an idea without a PowerPoint created by, like, a junior analyst that they're getting billed for, like, $280 an hour.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Big thanks to Katie for. For joining us. And the hot girl hamster wheel. And women. Taking money from women in the name of Doug. You deserve the. You know, the highlights. The tr. You need highlights in that hair.

[OG]

Oh, I've got highlights. They're the wrong color, but I've got highlights already.

[Doug]

I got Doug's nickname in college was Hot girl hamster wheel.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It was the. The question we always ask Doug Got that right. The question we always ask Doug is whether the carpeting matches the drapes.

[OG]

There's no carpeting.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And I just threw up in my mouth.

[OG]

Have you heard of manscaping?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And we're done.

[Doug]

It's all hardwood floors.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Let's go. Let's go into our headline.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Hello, Darlings. And now it's time for your favorite part of the show, our Stacking Benjamin's Headlines.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

We're seeing depreciation in action, gentlemen. Oh, gee. This idea of depreciating assets. Take us through a little one on one for maybe our younger stackers. How does depreciation work?

[Doug]

Well, what are you talking about? Like in what context?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, just when you depreciate an asset.

[Doug]

You know, you're talking about like on your taxes.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, yeah. How does that work?

[Doug]

Well, you're talking about a business owner who has acquired something related to their business that has to be spent over time. I mean, if you're a business owner and you have to buy something, you have an expense in your business. It has to go in one of two categories. It's either something that's consumed immediately or it's something that by the IRS standards is consumed over long periods of time. So like if you, I mean, nobody does this anymore, but if you bought a photocopy machine or a computer, a desk or a piece of equipment like that's usable over a long period of time, if you buy a ream of paper that's consumable, you're going to use that right away. And so the rema paper is an expense. The expense associated with buying the printer or the expense associated with buying the machinery is consumable over long periods of time. So the IRS has a schedule that says, hey, this piece of equipment was 500,000. You get to write 100,000 of it off every year for five years. Or you write it off over 27 years or over 15 or whatever the schedule says. And every type of property is a little different. On occasion there's programs that allow you to accelerate that depreciation. So you can do two years at one time, three years at one time, all the years at one time. But the downside is, is that when you sell it, sell the property in the future, you pay income taxes on.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

The difference on all of it. So instead of waiting for later to take all that income tax, goodness, you're able to get it a little bit at a time throughout the life of the product.

[Doug]

Yeah, you can. Which could also be bad, depending on.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, sure, yeah. No, I can see how it's a great thing today, but then in the far future, you know, I mean, at some point you got to pay the piper, right? You just like, okay. It's funny, when we talk about depreciation, the reason I want to bring that up is that there truly are two different things that we talk about. We use the same word, business owners use it. And depreciation can be great on your taxes, but also things lose value over time and so it becomes worthless over time. And so you've got depreciation that might be good today for some people in depreciation, that's maybe not so good if you're on the consumer side and your asset depreciates, it just isn't worth what it used to be worth.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah, like a car or something, you know.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And the people that see depreciation the most are early adopters, I think, because early adopters often OG have to pay a premium for that thing. So that means, you know, they're not making a ton of them. It's not proven yet. So then we, we pay a big high fee for that. And then if the product doesn't take off the way that we thought, then we end up with depreciation to tire. And that's, that's the case here. This is from the website Electric Co that looks at a lot of different electric vehicles. Tesla just started accepting cybertruck trade ins and man, oh gee. The depreciation for the early adopter on the cybertruck not looking good for the Cybertruck owners. 40,000 people converted their reservations into orders. There was a million reservations originally. People paid $100,000 for their cyber truck. And Tesla is offering $65,400 for it, a 34.6% depreciation. Now, I don't really want to talk about Tesla, but I do want to talk about just early adopters in anything. OG this is kind of the cost of early adoption of any product is that you could get hammered on the depreciation side for a variety of reasons. But early adoption comes sometimes, I think with the big price tag like we're seeing here with the cybertruck.

[Doug]

Yeah, this is true for technology, it's true for consumer goods. It's not surprising for cars, obviously. You know, sure, the old adage of, you know, the car loses 20% of its value when you drive it off the lot right away. So I think people aren't surprised by that. I think people are surprised by the fact that it goes down so much so quickly because there are other instances, especially with vehicles, where vehicles maintain their.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Value for a longer period of time.

[Doug]

For a longer period of time. And I was just doing some Google searching on this because we're kind of thinking about William and cars and that sort of thing for him. And I just typed in what is the most value car out there? Value truck or Whatever. And it's a lot of Toyota stuff, right. It's Toyota Tundras and Tacomas in particular. Top one and two. You buy a used one of those for ten grand and sell it in ten years for ten grand. Like they're or twenty or whatever the number is. Like they seem to hold their values for a long time. And I guess that's just a reflection on to your point, the length of that product being around. It's not a new thing. It's a truck that's been around for 50 years.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. It's already been proven reliable. It's. And I feel like for some people this is, this is what we were getting at on Monday with consumerism. And really OG you made a good point when you were like, you know, for you, the tickets that you bought were for whatever game was not based on showing you that you have a cool new thing. But if you're going to get on the in the cool new thing and it is to show other people that you got the cool new thing. In a lot of cases this. I mean look at the Apple headset that they are just retiring and Tim Cook and company are now saying they're going to redo that. But remember how cool those advertisements were?

[Doug]

No.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And then when you saw with people on there were never cool VR or.

[OG]

Are you talking about the over the ear headphones?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, the Vision Pro where you can see everything. But I saw these two dudes sitting at lunch together and they're both wearing these headsets like what are you doing? It just. And yet when you first saw the commercials, it looked really, really cool. And now you already know, oh gee, two years from now nobody's gonna be able to get rid of that thing.

[Doug]

Yeah. I never thought they were cool to begin with. So I didn't think that when I saw them. That's the cost of the new new, right? I mean Oculus. I mean if you're looking at technology, the little Google Vision, Google Glasses or whatever they had even iPhones when they first came out. I mean look at all the upgrades that happen even now. You go, they can't get a chip that's faster than the last year.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. You only have the five. What are you doing? What kind of dinosaur are you?

[OG]

Maybe I dozed off for a second. But why are we talking about this? How does this relate to people's long term budgeting and spend? Let's make this real. We're talking about depreciation. How do we tie this into either our investment strategies, our vision statement or our Day to day finances.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, two things. Number one, we discussed, there is two different types of ways to think about depreciation. If you're a business owner, this can be a great write off on your taxes. But if you're buying into a new technology, we talked about consumerism, there can be a monster cost. And I think when we're looking at the new new, we gotta know that if the new new isn't going to be the hot thing three years from now, I'm going to pay this huge, huge cost upfront for something that I might not have valued the way that I thought. Or there's a cost attached to that. Valuing the new.

[OG]

Yeah, so it's like buying Rivian stock. When I bought Rivian stock and I thought it's the hot new thing. When that thing ipo, I'm like, how can this not win? Tesla was going crazy at the time when Rivian came out. And I liked a lot of the intrinsics, value of and the fundamentals of that business. At the time, I paid a price for that. Being an early adopter and how that stock depreciated.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Look at as an example, like I've got the Sonos system and Sonos completely abandoned. Their old system goes, you know what, we have a new one. I had like eight of those speakers. And now trying to get rid of those speakers that are barely supported by the company. They actually made an app that if you've got just legacy stuff, that you can still use it. I don't know how long that's going to be supported. But I think to really put a point on this, which I'm glad you brought that up, Doug, is if you're not thinking about depreciation when you're buying the new, new thing, when you're buying into technology, you're making a mistake. There was also a lawsuit, Doug, that you might have seen, where video game players were suing a company because the makers of the video game the Crew, I believe it was Ubisoft, they just decommissioned the game. And these players are these. The only way to play it is online. Like, wait a minute, you sold me a good. No, no, no. You look at the ula. What? Isn't that what's called the ula? The, the, the user license agreement? Yeah, User license said, no, no, you don't actually own this game. You were leasing the game, you were buying the right to play the game and now the game's gone. So you paid 60 bucks for this thing that was going to last five years and now it's now it's gone, right?

[OG]

Nobody reads those.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I thought this was a good headline specifically for a week when we're just talking about consumerism. I will link to this in the show [e-mail] Doug out on the back porch, man, We've had a lot of great discussions around some of our previous episodes. It was funny. I was chatting with a couple stackers, one who told me stacker Jason who told me specifically. He's like, I didn't used to care about theme parks and now I get excited every time Robert Niles is on the show. So another great appearance by Robert Niles a few weeks ago. That was on Monday of that week and on Wednesday. A lot of people, a lot of chatter around the discussion we had on the Jail Collins episode, which Doug, I think you might have in front of you.

[OG]

I do. Yeah. We got a great post in the Basement from David Berman, who's a rising contributor. Congratulations, David, on being named a rising contributor. He said, I love them. It's quite an accomplishment. I'd tell your mom. I love the most recent episode you guys just did with JL Collins. Both segments were great. Probably the best and well rounded episode in a while. Love the interview with JL haven't heard the minister and monk story before, but I've said it for a long time that the parable of the fisherman and the businessman changed my life. No joke. I saw the story and a sign at a Jimmy John's in college and it changed my perspective in the course of my life.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

If it's on the wall of a Jimmy John's, it must be life changing.

[OG]

We can kind of make fun of that. But on the other hand, you never know when inspiration is going to hit you. It could be a bumper sticker that just catches you at the right time because of the other stuff that's happening in your life. And I think it's pretty awesome that, you know, he was in something as innocuous as a sub shop and found something that changed his whole outlook on life. He goes on about that, but then in his next paragraph he says in the Better Call Saul segment, I also thought it was a great discussion and deep dive. I agree with your answer completely. I'm amazed, though, that not once during your answer did any of you say the words market cap or market weighting.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

We were talking about, for people that don't remember this episode a few weeks ago, we were talking about the efficient frontier and talking about getting more a little more scientific with your investing and the reason we want. I mean, we had J.L. collins, which was really for people starting out. And then I love the fact that our color that day was for people that need to be more scientific, which is when your portfolio is a little larger. So we didn't talk about market cap or market weighting.

[OG]

No. But I will say, as I listened to that episode in its finished form the other day when I was out hiking, I did love that we got almost prescriptive. We got detailed. I loved that deep dive in that Better Call Saul segment. But there was a major problem with David's post here, and I. I called him on it. I don't know if you saw this, Joe, but as I read through it and I thought, this is really nice to hear. Thank you, David. Love the detailed sort of critique, and because it was positive, definitely loved it. So he kind of broke it up. You know, the beginning of it was just like the show structured. The beginning of this review was also how, you know, it was the interview with J.L. collins, which is. Was an amazing interview. That guy is. Is great to listen to. And then he jumped right to the Better Call Saul segment. I'm like, wait a minute. In between there is my trivia.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, my God. So I'm like, time to move on.

[OG]

Yeah. So I'm like, David, I replied to him. I'm like, there seems to be something missing in this post right about here. And I pointed an arrow to the white space between the two. David, the balls on this guy. David says, I love you, Doug. And I think your increased participation in the show has made it substantially better over the years. And here's where it drops off a cliff. But I still skip through your trivia every episode except for on Friday, buddy.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, my goodness.

[OG]

You're dead to me, David. You're dead to me.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, a little something for everybody.

[OG]

Apparently you just put a huge smile on Joe's face by saying that, David.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

No, because I often write the trivia. Screw you, David. Oh, that's. That's great. Well, thanks for the great discussion and the kind words. Lots of people wrote us about J.L. collins, and that was great to see. And it was great that we finally got to meet the guy after all these years. Finally got to have a sit down with JL you can find that just the week before Memorial Day. Monday, Robert Niles and Wednesday, J.L. collins. That's going to do it for today. Big thanks to all of you for listening. If you know somebody who really might be spending too much money, I think today's episode, Monday Might be good ones to point them toward. So if you've got a friend, go, hey, listen to these two. You know, you don't got to tell them, hey, is that really something that you wanted to buy? Probably don't say that. Just say, oh, I listen to this great podcast. So thanks to everybody who's done that AS has done that as well. Doug, you're going to wrap up though the big three.

[OG]

Are you sure you need to buy that new, expensive pocket knife?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Why don't you listen to this episode first?

[OG]

That's going to go over as well as I'd like to talk to you about the way you parent your children. That's probably how well that's going to be received.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I think the kinder, gentler way is to say, I got a great podcast that you might want to listen to. All right, Doug, what are the big three things on our to do list after today?

[OG]

Well, Joe, first, take some advice from Katie. How much are you spending on consumerism? Decide what truly lights you up and spend more in those areas, but cut anything that's not serving you. Second, thinking about buying that quirky car or electric artwork. Values change with time, not just based on the value of the piece, but also on what's going on in the economy. Keep your investing game solid with more reliable funds, especially if you're counting on them for financial independence later. But the big lesson, if you're going to ever help me fold T shirts, learn to do it the proper way. If you put the crease down the middle of the shirt, it's going to show up later when you wear it. Come on. It's basic folding. People, some of you have clearly never worked at a gap in the summertime. Oh, I did. It was the worst job I've ever had. Six weeks in a gap. Oh, and all I did was stand there with this little folding board. You gotta fold the shirts over the board perfectly so they all stack perfectly. Oh, my God.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Have a fake smile and go, welcome in.

[OG]

Yes, I did.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Welcome in. And while the background you've got.

[OG]

Thanks to Katie Gaddy Tassen for joining us today. You'll find Katie's new book, Rich Girl Nation in our Stacking Benjamin's bookshop. We'll also include links in our show notes [e-mail]. hold on. We have a bookshop.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, hey, all the cool authors are there.

[OG]

You don't have room for an office for me. I'm still over by the water heater, but we've got a bookshop now.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Time to move on.

[OG]

It's probably like a cafe in the.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Back and cool music with music going. And the baristas are going. Welcome in Beret.

[OG]

This show is the property of SB Podcasts, LLC, Copyright 2025, and is created by Josal Sehive. Joe gets help from a few of our neighborhood friends. You'll find out about our awesome [e-mail] along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello. Oh, yeah, and before I go, not only should should you not take advice from these nerds, don't take advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And we'll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show. Sa.

[Doug]

The trivia question inspired me to remember this bit from Saturday Night Live. Not about the Declaration of Independence, but rather about the Constitution and some of the amendments to the Constitution. I don't know if you guys have heard this before. And so we are resolved.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

The First Amendment to our Constitution is as follows. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, of abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or of the right of the people peaceably to assemble and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. Well done.

[Doug]

Gentlemen, the First Amendment.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

All right, all right.

[OG]

Now, what shall we discuss next?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

What is the second most important principle of our nation? Gun. Excuse me? Gun. I don't hate that.

[OG]

Well, I do.

[Doug]

It's ridiculous.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Sir, what is your name? Matt. Matt what?

[OG]

Matt, don't you worry about it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, Matt, what will posterity say of us if the second right we enshrine in this document is simply guns that we don't play? Damn. That's actually kind of sick.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Yes.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

No, no, no. The idea is ludicrous. Wait, now, hold on. I mean, we did just make a law that said anyone can say whatever crazy stuff they want, right?

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Maybe this gun thing would kind of balance that out.

[OG]

Bingo.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Okay, yes, but by the same token, wouldn't having a gun embolden people to say crazy stuff as well?

[OG]

Bro. What?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Yeah, what?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Make that make sense. Gentlemen, we cannot just have an amendment that says guns. But what about guns?

[Doug]

Having them? Ooh, love it.

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Smart.

[Doug]

Like, who is this guy?

[Katie Gaddy Tassen]

Why isn't he running this?

[Doug]

Matt, I am open to discussing guns.

[OG]

For a later amendment, but I must.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Insist we move on to a more pressing concern. You're screaming so angry.

[Doug]

Sir.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Where are you from exactly? America.

[Doug]

As he's lighting a cigarette with a candle, he's just got, like, a cigarette. He said, got glasses on. He kind of puts him down.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Is this Chappelle? Was that Chappelle?

[Doug]

No, no, it's Walter.

[OG]

I didn't recognize any of those voices.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Who was the guest? I remember it sounded like Mikey. Mikey. What's his name?

[Doug]

You do kind of wonder how that went down, right? They're just, like, sitting around going, well, this is great and all, but we probably need to make some changes right away. Like, how did that go? How was the conversation? Just like he said, right? This was a very important first amendment to our great constitution. You could da, da, da, da. Rattle off. What is the next one?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Guns.

[Doug]

Guns. Are we sure that's the second most important thing? Yep, yep.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. Mikey Day. Mikey Day.