Should You Invest When the Market Feels Too High? SB1812

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Stacking Benjamins Show, Episode SB1812

Title: Should You Invest When the Market Feels Too High?
Date: March 6, 2026
Hosts: Joe Saul-Sehy
Roundtable Guests: Len Penzo (lenpenzo.com), Paula Pant (Afford Anything), Greg McFarlane (Control Your Cash)

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Episode Overview

This lively “greatest hits” roundtable revisits a classic 2016 conversation on whether it makes sense to invest when the stock market feels “sky high.” Host Joe Saul-Sehy and guests Len Penzo, Paula Pant, and Greg McFarlane dig into enduring investing wisdom, the psychology of market timing, and how myths persist regardless of market cycles. The discussion tackles strategies for buying and selling investments, the perennial debate of cash vs credit, and how to handle kids’ awkward money questions. The show is packed with wit, candor, and actionable insights, reflecting the podcast’s signature “fun and functional” tone.

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Key Topics and Insights

1. Is the Market Ever "Too High" to Invest?

[02:00–13:00]

• Joe introduces the main theme: even in 2016, investors fretted about "high" markets (SPY at $190 vs. $700 in 2026).
• Evergreen Lesson: There’s always something to worry about, and “sky high” is often relative in hindsight.
  • "This episode... is so evergreen because we have the same fears then 10 years ago that we have today." – Joe Saul-Sehy (04:00)
• Referenced the tumult of the past decade (pandemic, inflation), yet the market trajectory shows long-term growth.

2. Classic Investing Rules: Sell Losers Fast, Let Winners Run

[18:00–23:55]

• Rule #1 Discussion:
  • Defining a ‘loser’ is hard—it often requires hindsight and clear, objective criteria.
  • Greg: "How do you define a loser? How do you know that stock that's gone up 30% in the last month is still going to be worth holding on to a year from now?" (18:50)
• Strategy:
  • Len advocates an exit strategy set when you buy individual stocks (e.g., sell if it drops 15%; sell if it rises 20–50%).
  • Paula barely plays the individual stock game: "If I'm buying a company, it's because I want to be a part owner... not just a trader." (23:29)

3. Buy Cheap, Sell Expensive & Media Influence

[24:42–26:33]

• P/E Ratios and the ‘Cramer Effect’:
  • Greg downplays the influence of TV talking heads, but acknowledges personalities like Jim Cramer can swing prices briefly.
  • "If you're looking at broadcast television to tell you the inner workings... you're not going to find any hot tips there." (25:35)
• Advice: Turn off the TV when it comes to investment decisions; monthly check-ins are plenty.

4. “This Time Is Never Different” & Investing Trends

[26:33–30:14]

• Len reaffirms market cycles and the folly of thinking the present is unique.
• "Things go in cycles. That's how it is from the beginning of time." – Len Penzo (27:01)
• Greg challenges the “never different” mantra, noting bubble extremes are infrequent but real (e.g., 1999 dot-com, 2009 crash).

5. Cash vs Credit: Practical Money Habits

[30:14–36:18]

• Panelists overwhelmingly use credit cards for rewards and security, rarely cash (except for tips or untrustworthy merchants).
  • Paula: "The risk of cash is far greater than the reward." (31:11)
• Splitting bills in groups:
  • Greg: As a nondrinker, prefers paying his itemized share in cash to avoid unfair tabs (33:00).
  • Paula agrees—cash makes big-group dining smoother.

6. Cashless Society & Negative Interest Rates: Concerns and Skepticism

[36:18–38:46]

• Cashless Society:
  • Len warns it’s “a banker’s dream,” enabling capital controls.
  • Greg is skeptical: "As long as politicians hire prostitutes, we will never, ever have a cashless society." (38:33)

7. Talking Money with Kids: Tough Questions

[44:36–52:58]

• Directness vs. privacy:
  • Len tells his kids his income, sees no stigma unless living above one’s means.
  • Greg would “lowball it”—prefers to avoid the hassle that comes with people knowing you earn more.
  • Paula is sensitive to the social implications: "I don't want casual acquaintances knowing [my finances] because that can interfere with our dynamic." (46:22)
• Why can't we buy this/vacation?
  • Paula: “People spend based on their priorities.” (48:22)
  • Len: Series of answers—maybe we’re saving, maybe our priorities are different.
  • Greg: “This is why I had a vasectomy.” (50:49) (memorable and candid response about parenting)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Joe Saul-Sehy:
  • “There’s always something to worry about. This episode... is so evergreen because we have the same fears then 10 years ago that we have today.” (04:00)
• Greg McFarlane:
  • “How do you define a loser? How do you know that stock that's gone up 30% in the last month is still going to be worth holding on to a year from now?” (18:50)
  • “As long as politicians hire prostitutes, we will never, ever have a cashless society.” (38:33)
  • “This is why I had a vasectomy.” (50:49)
• Paula Pant:
  • “If I'm buying a company, it's because I want to be a part owner... not just a trader.” (23:29)
  • “The risk of cash is far greater than the reward.” (31:11)
• Len Penzo:
  • “Things go in cycles. That's how it is from the beginning of time.” (27:01)
  • “A cashless society is a banker's dream... it’s the ultimate in capital controls.” (37:37)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Market "Sky High" Reflections: [02:00–13:00]
• Investing Rules & When to Sell: [18:00–23:55]
• Media Influence & "Turn off the TV": [24:42–26:33]
• Cash vs Credit Usage: [30:14–36:18]
• Cashless Society/Negative Interest Rates: [36:18–38:46]
• Answering Kids’ Tough Money Questions: [44:36–52:58]

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Takeaways & Tone

• Always have a plan: Set investing criteria before buying.
• Market timing is tough and fears are constant—history rewards consistent investors.
• Credit cards are great for rewards and security; cash is only for rare exceptions.
• Be honest yet strategic when talking money with kids (and nosy acquaintances).
• The panel’s humor—sometimes self-deprecating or irreverent—keeps financial truths accessible and engaging.

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Listen if you want:

• Time-tested personal finance wisdom
• Entertaining banter that makes tricky topics enjoyable
• Accessible lessons on investing psychology, market cycles, and money conversations at home

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Transcript

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[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Prices and participation may vary.

Hey Stackers. You know on Monday we talked about Courage with Jen Drummond. An amazing story of climbing the second highest peaks around the world. But the focus really on you having the courage to go reach whatever those goals are that you've set for yourself. On Wednesday we talked about retirement and travel, fusing the two of those ideas together in a fascinating discussion with George Georgi. And we're going to end our greatest hits week today with a little time travel. We're going way back to 2016 and before you hit. Well, I don't want to hear 2016. You got to check this out. The name of the episode was called Investing in a Sky High stock market which 10 years later at the time we thought that the stock market was really high. The Spy. We call it the Spider. It's an exchange traded fund that tracks The S&P 500, the 500 biggest stocks in America. You can buy that and just own a little piece by the way, of all 500 stocks.

Stocks.

A lot of people do that. Good choice for your large company stocks and your 401k if that meets your goals. But back then I just did a little homework. It was trading at $190 a share. If you were buying it today, it's trading just below 700 a share. 10 years later you would have bought it for 190. Today 700. And by the way, I didn't even look at reinvesting dividends what your actual return was. But from less than 200 to 700. That' a big reason why I wanted to play this. But you'll also hear us actually talk about a bunch of different headlines. So it was hard to name this show at the time. I actually it's funny, I remember trying to name this because there are a few different fusion points that we baked into this particular episode. But what strikes me is that there's always something to worry about. This episode, as I listened to it, is so evergreen because we have the Same fears then 10 years ago that we have today. And look at where we've been. We've had a pandemic. We had runaway inflation for a little while. We've had a stock market that's been on a tear right the last 10 years with a couple hiccups. But generally it's been a nice run. And for those of you who missed him when he was part of our roundtable discussions, by the way, Greg McFarlane was on this one. The guy Stackers either loved or hated, but I think mostly loved him for his gruff sense of humor. And what you might not know is when Greg had to leave the show, that's when OG joined the Friday crew. So if you've only been listening for a short period of time, that's a little history of stacking Benjamins. By the way, if you're new here, usually during our eight week run of shows, most of the time, OG and I and Doug, we'll dive into a topic or a headline. On Monday, that's our Monday show is a deeper dive into some personal finance headline and giving you tips to take based on the headline that are much more evergreen and will help you build a more robust financial plan. On Wednesdays, we'll interview one of the big names in personal finance or business. Because if you're trying to stack Benjamins, you want to be great on the job, you want to be great off the job. We'll talk lifestyle design. We'll talk all kinds of things. So we've had the CEOs of Royal Caribbean, Coach, Cirque du Soleil, United Airlines, Honeywell, more on the show. But in the personal finance space, Susie Orman has been here, Ramit Seti, David Bach, Jill Schlesinger, Gene Chat, Sky, Rachel Cruz, and many of the other great personal finance names so that we can get the best outside advice for you and help you create a better financial plan for yourself. Those are our mentor Wednesdays and then on Friday it's our chattiest show. It's this roundtable discussion between three bloggers, podcasters, media experts. These are people that that I generally hang out with. I know these people very well, they're just friends that are very good at what they do and have some great chops. People that are well respected in the industry and we take headline, we take a topic and you know what, sometimes you'll hear how bad we mess stuff up or you'll also hear how we, how we think about these things just as people that are in the trenches working on a financial plan just like you are. So it's our chattiest show and that's what we're doing today. But we're going back to 2016 when things were a little different. But as you'll hear, very, very much the same. Just two quick things before we start today's show. Our shiny new Boston group up and rolling. My daughter Autumn lives in Boston. She's already signed up for the group. James, Carol Ann, Susan, they have been planning this for months. And finally it's time for the first meeting. It's going to be next Wednesday, March 11, 6pm at Hannah's Brewing, that's in Melrose. Come out and meet other like minded individuals. Meet your people. They are going to have some fun. They're going to give some stuff away. It's going to be a really great time in Melrose. 6pm the way to sign up and tell us that you're coming is stacky benjamins.com meetup. Of course you can also join our Benjamin's After Dark Facebook group for between the meetings to stay motivated and to help like minded people who are in your backyard. So I love seeing our stackers get together across the country. And now starting next week in Boston. All right, one meetup you don't want to attend is the meetup with the person who stole your credit. Well, I guess you would want to meet them and get your credit back, but let's try to make sure that doesn't happen in the first place. And the way we do that is with our tool called the Vault. It's alive, it's working for a bunch of our stackers. Not only does it protect your privacy getting you off those email and text list, but it monitors your credit, cuts your subscriptions, helps you bump up your credit score, create a better debt pay down strategy and more. Cheryl and I use it in our weekly meeting and what you've seen is that other tools do pieces of what the Vault does. But why have seven different apps on your phone when you could just have one? And one that works with the credit bureaus, one that's built by some of the top developers in the land. Stacking benjamins.com vault if you go there, you'll see our YouTube, one of our walkthrough videos so you can check out everything about it. Really a fantastic tool and people saving a bunch of money and even better than that, making sure that the bad people don't get to their identity. Stacking benjamins.com vault all right, we've got a couple sponsors that help us keep on keeping on. We're gonna hear from them and then it's Friday and Len Penzo, Paula Pant and Greg McFarland join me. Looking at how sky high the stock market is and a few other big headlines on this Friday. Coming back on Monday, we are gonna have a fun week one of our shows. Anna Allen, back to answer your Stacky Benjamin's questions. Can't wait to hear. By the way, if you want us to answer your question. Stackybenjamins.com voicemail and you can be on an upcoming show where Anna, Og and I tackle your question. All right, let's hear from our sponsors and then roll into our Friday I just ordered some new pants, which everyone around here appreciates. When you work from mom's basement, people don't always know that you still want to look good. We do video now, so you got to look good. You usually can't see my pants, but you can see the cashmere sweater that I got recently. And as you may not know, a thoughtfully built wardrobe comes down to pieces that mix well and last. And that's where I got to tell you. This is where Quince shines these pants that I just purchased. Premium fabrics consider design and everyday essentials to feel effortless to wear and dependable even as the seasons change. 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And they only partner with factories that meet rigorous standards for craftsmanship and ethical production. This sweater has become my go to. And these pants, absolutely the same. Right now go to quince.comsb and you're going to get free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a full year to build your wardrobe and love it. And you will love it. Now available in Canada too. Don't keep settling for clothes that don't last. Go to quince.comsb for free shipping, 365 day returns. Quince.comsb well, here's a game changer. If you're in back to back meetings like I often am, or you walk out of a meeting and you're like, how do I summarize all this? All these takeaways and you always feel like something's going to fall through the cracks, right? Or that you didn't pick up the big point, or everybody in the room didn't even get the same takeaways. And three weeks later you're like, no, Remember, we all agreed on X thing. Well, if that's you, and then you're like me, Granola is your solution. Granola is an AI powered notepad built for the way real people actually meet. It's really cool when I started diving into granola because you take rough notes the same way that you normally would. And it also transcribes in the background. It turns the combination of your notes and the transcription into this beautiful, clean, structured, and actually useful set of notes when the meeting ends. And the best part, it works through your device's audio, which means it integrates seamlessly into the video conferencing tools you already use. So you don't have to worry about any setup, no awkward bots. I literally just downloaded it and I was off and running. Here's the coolest part though. It's like you're in the meeting, but instead of going, wait, let me write that down, let me take a moment, you can stay focused on the meeting and take just very brief notes. You're not going to miss something because you were frantically writing something down while the whole team went on to the new point, whatever it might be. Before granola. I'm half in, I'm half out. Don't remember what happened in my 8am meeting. By the time I get to the 3pm meeting and the first time I used it, what a game changer. I was present, I came out and everything organized so that I was ready to take action and move forward. So if meetings are eating up your day, granola is a no brainer. Try it totally free stackers by heading to Granola AI slash sb. Put the SB on there and then they know that we sent you because this is a tool I want to be associated with for a long time. Go to granola AI/sb. Get your time back. Once again, try for free Granola AI slash sb.

[Indeed Sponsor]

Hey everyone, I'm Pauline from the blog Rich Financial Independence dot Com. And when I'm not spending all my money biking around Europe, I'm stacking Benjamin's in Guatemala.

[Doug]

Live from Joe's mom's basement, it's the Stacking Benjamin Show. Hey there, money nerds. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And we're kicking off on the another glorious weekend in Texarkana with an epic roundtable discussion about of all things, money. Joining us today from the classic site lenpenzo.com Bruce Springsteen.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Bruce?

[Doug]

No, I'm sorry, it's not Bruce. He had to run. It's really just good old Len Penzo. And from Afford Anything, Paula Pant. Rounding out today's trio of greatness, the author of Control Youl Cash, Greg McFarlane. Joe, when are we getting rid of this dude? And here he is, the guy who says he has a plan for this whole thing but won't show anybody. Joe Saul Siha.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Completely complimentary podcast coming your way. Hey everybody, I'm Joe Salsihal. Average Joe Money on Twitter. Can't believe that you don't have to pay for this, huh?

The best things in life, as mom said, are free.

Hey, guess what? Got a fantastic show to finish out this eight week segment of shows and can't wait to get to it. So let's get this party started, huh?

All right, let's walk across the basement here and fire up my dead shortwave again and let's see who we get on the line. Let's start off in Los Angeles, California, where the man himself, Len Penzo from that crazily titled lenpenzo.comblog.

[Len Penzo]

is that Joe? How are you?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I didn't know how to finish that sentence. Isn't that horrible?

[Len Penzo]

Oh, that's okay.

[Greg McFarlane]

We've just.

[Len Penzo]

Guess what? I've been busy. I've been studying for my dental exam, which is coming up in a few days.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, that's. That's rough. Isn't that rough?

[Len Penzo]

You know what gets me is I'm one of those people that I can do anything I want in my teeth. I never get A cavity. I've never had a cavity in my life. They're good no matter what.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yes. A guy who I think has a full set of teeth definitely has a full head of hair. In Las Vegas, it's Mr. Greg McFarlane from Control youl Cash.

[Greg McFarlane]

And for the 39th episode in a row, Joe does not go to me first. So, Len, do you floss only on the day, three or four days before your cleaning or starting three or four days, and then every day until the cleaning?

[Len Penzo]

About three or four days before the cleaning. Unless I've had, like, corn on the cob or something somewhere in between the cleaning and the other cleaning. So, you know, if I've had corn on the cob and there's something in there, I just can't get out. Yeah. Then I'll floss just to get the stuff out. But just between the teeth, where the stuff is.

[Greg McFarlane]

Next time I see you in person, we're only shaking hands. We are not.

[Len Penzo]

Brush my teeth at least two times. At least two times a day. Sometimes more.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Greg, you just said the back of your throat flossed today, didn't you?

[Greg McFarlane]

Oh, man. I had my first endoscopy.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Congratulations.

[Greg McFarlane]

This is a fun age to get to.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah.

[Greg McFarlane]

For anybody out there who is hesitant of getting an endoscopy, if you've gone to your gastroenterologist and they recommend this and you put it off for five weeks in a cowardly fashion like I did, you don't have to. I didn't feel a thing. Fantastic. Literally did not feel a thing.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Fantastic.

[Greg McFarlane]

And they said, don't operate any heavy machinery for 24 hours afterward. And a vehicle counts as heavy machinery. And I did not drive back, but I think I probably could. If I'm not on the show next week, you'll know why.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Right? And across town from you, I think we have Paula Pant from Afford Anything.

[Paula Pant]

I am totally on the line.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

What's happening, Paula?

[Paula Pant]

Not a whole lot to report. I have not been to the dentist or the doctor in quite a while. So no horror stories to share there. No bleeding gums or anything else of that nature.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That's so good. This is a train wreck already. But the good news is, Paula, we got the band back together.

[Paula Pant]

Where does that expression come from? Was there once a particular band that broke up and then got back together? And you have.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You have no idea the expression we're getting the band back together.

[Paula Pant]

No, like, I assume there was a band. I guess there was a man there was back together.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

There was a band. Yes. There. There Definitely was a band. Greg, we're getting the band back together.

[Greg McFarlane]

To me, it's one of those expressions that I thought was just so time tested, it didn't even have an origin.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I thought it was the Blues Brothers. Wasn't the Blues Brothers that went around saying, we're getting the band back together.

[Len Penzo]

I thought, I think that's it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I thought that's, I thought that's what it was. I thought we got Paula, but apparently I stumped the entire panel.

[Paula Pant]

Cool. I am not uniquely out of the loop.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

She's like, woohoo.

Yeah.

All right, so why don't we just jump in, guys, let's get to the fun stuff. Let's talk about money. Our first piece comes to us from Market Watch and it's opinion piece says, heed these seven investing rules as US stocks hit record highs. And Greg, I'm coming to you first with this piece from Lance Roberts. What do you think about this first rule? He says, sell losers fast and let winners run typing.

[Greg McFarlane]

Get the band back together into Google autocompletes. Blues Brothers. So there you go.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Bam.

[Len Penzo]

It is. They even have clips on YouTube. I'm looking at it too.

[Greg McFarlane]

How about that didn't exist before 1980? Some of this advice, I think is so basic it almost doesn't even count as observations. It's as natural as breathing. But. But sell losers fast, let winners run. Yeah, it makes sense in theory, but the tricky part and the reason why we're not all rich is because how do you define a loser? How do you define something that is permanently never going to return your investment as opposed to something that is just temporarily out of commission? How do you define a winner? How do you know that that stock that's gone up 30% in the last month is still going to be worth holding on to a year from now?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That's what I wondered. How do you define a loser, Greg? A change in management.

[Greg McFarlane]

If I'm seeing quarter after quarter of negative returns, if I'm seeing a company that is not making money and has no hope to and doesn't have to rely on a cash infusion from the government, like I was going to say, Tesla Motors would fit, would fit into that category. But it appears that regardless of who's in the White House, Elon Musk is going to enjoy an infusion until he eventually sells enough cars to turn a profit. But there are other. I mean, just off the top of my head, Faraday Future is another company that draws nominal revenue figures, tons and tons of expenses, huge losses. And that to Me, is the definition of a loser something that I can't foresee any real world scenario in which a company's fortunes are ever going to turn around, regardless of the Faraday Futures CEO, who by the way, is. Here's another red flag. The company doesn't even disclose his name. I'm not kidding. He could leave. You could bring in Warren Buffett, you could bring in Steve Ballmer. I think that company's beyond hope. That to me is the definition of a loser.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

What about a company like Amazon, which has always had good sales coming in the front door but also really struggled to make a profit?

[Greg McFarlane]

Well, if you ask its CEO, he'll say that it's never been about turning a profit. Since when was it founded? 1994, 1995. It's about, it's about creating market share and to the point now where they've dominated. I mean, you used to think of Walmart as the huge monopolistic retailer. Well, you don't really think that way anymore. Plus Amazon has had some positive quarters and it is duration. I mean, the company has succeeded for 22 years. It's not going anywhere.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Len. Sell your losers fast. Let winners run. Like Greg says, sounds good. When you've got a loser investment, how do you define that?

[Len Penzo]

This is a hard one, because sometimes you'll think you have a loser. I don't know what the definition of loser is unless you're actually looking at the bottom line and seeing, like Greg said, there's returns or not. It almost requires hindsight to meet up with this because sometimes you would have sworn that if you were just looking at the returns, Amazon was going to be a big loser early on. And only now they just started turning, getting positive returns. Maybe about the last year or so, but up until then they were losing money constantly. I don't know how you determine what a loser is. I guess if something is dropping continuously and you're holding it and holding it and it keeps losing money and it's not showing, if you're looking at the underlying fundamentals and you cannot justify sticking with that stock, I guess that's a loser. But it's really hard to. I mean, this kind of presupposes you know what a loser is in advance. That's kind of. It's almost unfair. This is an unfair term.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It just means that you have some criteria like Greg's talking about. You've got some criteria that defines what a loser is, right?

[Len Penzo]

Well, yeah, to me.

[Greg McFarlane]

Okay, so.

[Len Penzo]

Okay, so now we're going back to the old exit so here's what I do. When I buy individual stock, I have an exit strategy. And I don't mean to sound like a broken record, but if you have an exit strategy, these things are easy to define, right? So I'm going to buy stock X and if it drops 15% or 10%, I'm going to sell it no matter what. And if it makes 20% or 50%, I'm going to sell it no matter what. If you have that exit strategy when you buy the stock ahead of time, this kind of sell losers, let winners. That's how you would define it? That's my best answer.

[Doug]

Paul.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

If you had an exit strategy, you would have been off this podcast a long time ago, I'm sure.

[Paula Pant]

I know, right? If I had an exit strategy, I would be like,

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

it's like, what the hell?

[Paula Pant]

I would have dropped this puppy like a hot potato.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

What am I doing here, right? What's your exit strategy with individual stocks and selling your losers fast?

[Paula Pant]

I don't really have one. And I mean partially. That's because I don't really play the individual stock game. As we talked about in one of the last podcasts, I have two individual stocks that I hold, both of which are like a tiny, tiny portion of my portfolio. Joe, you and I told you earlier today that I consider that money that I could otherwise throw into a dumpster fire. I really don't play the individual stock game enough to have an exit strategy. What I would say is twofold. Number one, if I'm buying an individual stock, it's because I believe in its long term viability. I'm a big fan of that quote from Philip Fisher who said the best holding period is forever. So if I buy an individual stock, it's with the same mindset that I have when I buy an index fund, which is barring any type of substantial change in the company's activities, like a change in the market, a change in the industry, barring some kind of actual real change. If I'm buying a company, it's because I want to be a part owner of that company, not just a trader.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Does this, does this same, I don't know, quote, sell losers fast, let winners run. Apply if you have a portfolio of real estate.

[Paula Pant]

Oh, got real estate. I would be even more reluctant to sell because there's such high transaction costs. You know, you can sell a stock fee free on certain platforms with real estate every time. I mean, from the moment you buy a house to the moment you sell it, that house has to appreciate 6% plus inflation just for you to break even on the commissions, not to mention all of the other trading costs. So real estate is something you definitely want to consider an illiquid asset and not trade often, unless you're in the business of flipping. But then that's a completely different business altogether. That's a, it's a different model.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Greg. Buy cheap and sell expensive is his next piece of advice. I guess this is he talking about the PE ratio?

[Greg McFarlane]

I think so. But then when you actually get into the meat of it, he says, however, you will pay any price for a stock because someone on television told you to, whether it's Jim Cramer or somebody screaming at you from Fox Business or CNBC or whatever. I don't necessarily agree with that. I don't think that just because somebody is touting something that it really makes an appreciable difference to the number of people going into the market and purchasing said stock.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, we've seen the Kramer effect, though. I mean, he in particular does affect the price of a stock still, though. Yeah, no, you're right. You're right. Probably not as much now as he as you see, that's true. But that actually brings up another point, Greg, Point number five on here is turn off the television. How much do you look to people on TV when you're, when you're looking for your next potential purchase?

[Greg McFarlane]

Well, I say this over and over again. I mean, I usually keep Fox Business on during the day just to have another voice in the house, whether it's disembodied or whatever. And routinely, I mean, when Liz Clayman after the closing bell, and she'll say, yeah, the market was down 0.13% today. And that's the opening story that is the most important thing that happened in the market at large is that it lost 1-800-th of its value, which it's probably going to regain most of the following day. So, yeah, if you're looking at broadcast television to tell you the inner workings of the think about it, I mean, that's cable channels that are available to millions of other people, you're not going to find any hot tips there because it's already passed through other sets of hands and is hitting everybody at the same time. If it's for entertainment purposes, that's great, but there's absolutely no reason to pay attention to the movements in the market from more than monthly. If you're trying, if you're trying to, if you're trying to gauge anything without driving yourself crazy.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And number seven on here is go against the herd. And I hear what you're saying. It's hard to go against the herd when you're listening to the place that everybody else is listening to. Number three on here, Len, I really appreciate this. Time is never different. He says as much as our emotions and psychological makeup want to always hope and pray for the best, this time is never different than the past. Do you agree with that? Because you seem to be a guy who thinks that there's another shoe that's about to drop that maybe hasn't dropped in a long, long time.

[Len Penzo]

Well, yeah, and that's again, that's, that's an example of this time is never different. There's been lots of shoes that have dropped over the past. What, what I mean, you just go back. I'll only go back to 1987. You had a big crash in 87, right. And then you had a big run up to the dot com bubble in, was that 1999? 2000. And then we had another, you know, stocks fell and things ran up again until 2007, 2008, there was another drop. So. So things go in cycles. Nothing ever changes. That's just the way it is. And irrational exuberance. You'll have a lot of people trying to justify that. No, this time is different, but it's really not. Things go in cycles. That's how it all the way back from the beginning of time. That's how things are. Can I bring up one thing that's not on here that I'm surprised this guy did not put on here for stock market? Don't fight the trend. Don't fight the trend, which is I've been famous for doing now for the past five years. And it's killed me, seriously. But that is one of the biggest stock market investing tips there is. If something's going up long term, you look at the trend and you tend to stick with that until it turns. That's usually pretty good advice. Unfortunately, I didn't have him followed it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, it's funny you say that and I want to go back to you, Greg, because of the three people on this panel. Do more individual stock investing. When he says don't fight the trend, Len says that you're looking at what we call a top down strategy, right, where you look at the overall trend and then look at stocks that fit that versus a bottom up, where you find a stock that you like and then you make sure that the trend is agreeing with this particular stock and that this stock doesn't have to be a salmon. Which way do you invest. Do you start off with a trend like you like, you know, water, or you like wrestling or whatever it might be? Or do you start off with a stock and then work backwards?

[Greg McFarlane]

You say, I like wrestling.

[Paula Pant]

You.

[Greg McFarlane]

You make it sound like I have posters of gold dust and the undertaker on my wall like a 12 year old. I make. I, I'm, I am a casual fan. I went to WrestleMania a couple of years ago with my girlfriend and she was upset that I was not wearing a WWE T shirt. Was she really some plain, solid color?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Really?

[Greg McFarlane]

She's like, yeah, wow.

[Len Penzo]

I've been to one too. I, I've bought tickets to see those. They're fun. They're so fun.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Okay, I should have said cats. I should have said cats.

[Greg McFarlane]

All right, fine. Top down. I don't think, hey, this is, this is the new hot sector. Let's dig a little deeper into it. It's really more a case of just plowing through financial statements, which is not a lot of fun. It's tedious unless you have a particular desire for it. And I have to admit that I don't. To me, it's more of an eat your vegetables kind of thing. But the reward is there, and I have to hit on the author for this. Time is never different. Well, maybe it is. I mean, yeah, 1999, 2000, back when Paula was learning to walk, that time was plenty different. As len pointed out, Pets.com was trading at thousands of times earnings. And a bubble like that might not be historically unique in the sense of it'll happen once ever, but it's infrequent enough that it'll happen only three or four times in a person's investing lifetime. As will the nadir that we saw in the stock market of 2009, 2010, when everything is underpriced.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That's an interesting point, and I think we're going to leave it right there and we're going to move on to a piece in Kiplinger that I found interesting is a banking piece by Lisa Gerstner that says six things you need to know about paying with cash. And I'm really. Guys, I'm not that interested in, in the points in the article. My, my main thing was more just about paying with cash. Paula, do you pay with cash?

[Paula Pant]

Almost never.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

How come?

[Paula Pant]

I like, number one, being able to get the rewards, mostly frequent flyer miles that come through my credit card. Number two, I like being able to have a third party who can be the intermediary if there are any disputes that I have with the Merchant in terms of the product or the service or, you know, if there's any type of merchant dispute. And number three, I don't like carrying large sums of cash around or really any sums of cash around above like 20 bucks. Because I'm more likely to lose cash if I lose my wallet. I can cancel the credit cards. The cash is gone.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You're saying the risk of cash is far greater than the reward?

[Paula Pant]

Exactly.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. Yeah. Len, you pay cash or just gold bullion?

[Len Penzo]

Well, I pay cash for, For. This might sound strange, but if I'm doing business with somebody who I don't really trust because it's happened before, or I've given a credit card to somebody and they've taken my credit card number and used it for their own, you know, gain. So if I don't trust the person I'm dealing with into that regard, I will use cash. I keep cash around always for tips. Nothing worse than not having money to tip somebody for whatever reason. But no, I'm like Paula. Generally speaking, I use the credit cards because the rewards are so great. You can't beat it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

But it's weird. If you don't trust somebody, it seems like you'd be more likely to use credit. I mean, I hear what you're saying about them stealing your credit card.

[Len Penzo]

Let me give you an example. Pizza. Okay, Pizza. There are some pizza places. They will take your credit card, you know, right over the phone or what have you. And I'm not willing to do that for a lot of places. I'd rather say, nope, have the guy come to my door and I'll pay him cash. So I'm not saying that's always, but that's the first example. Comes right off the top of my head.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Interesting. Craig, how about you? Cash or credit?

[Greg McFarlane]

I pay with cash, as little as possible. I will buy a magazine with a credit card if the retailer wants to pay a service fee while I earn another couple of Hilton honors points, that's fine by me. I'm amazed that 40% of transactions are still via cash.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, me too.

[Greg McFarlane]

Yeah, the underground giant panda market is bigger than I expected. Granted, that's from a year and a half ago, this article, but still, I prefer, like Paula said, having the credit card companies list and itemize my purchases. Something I couldn't be bothered to do if I used cash for everything. Two exceptions. Two places where I will pay cash. Number one, if I am traveling in a third world country, I've had a credit card number stolen once, never again. And depending how far into the Hinterlands you go, you'll find countries where American dollars are pretty much accepted as legal tender, which is kind of convenient for living in this country. The other exception. I will carry cash on hand when I'm going out to dinner with a large group of people. This is a variation on what Len said about tips. I don't drink alcohol, and I'm not going to order an appetizer for the most part. Not because I'm cheap, just because that's the caloric intake that I need. And if I'm going to dinner with 10 other people and the bill comes out and they expect me to pay exactly 110 of it, when in reality I contributed more like 5% to the total cost, then, yeah, I'm more than happy to just whip out cash. People think that it's somehow tactless, and I've never understood why this is to calculate. All right, I paid 1895 for my entree, three bucks for my drink. That's 2195. Let's put 20. Put a 20% tip on that. That's $4 and 40 cents. So now we're looking at about 2650. And then to pull out $26.50 in cash, put it in the middle of the table and say, hey, I'm done. You guys figure it out.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I don't think that's tactless. And I have been in groups where people seem to, you know, frown upon that. Paula, what do you think of that?

[Paula Pant]

I totally agree with what both Len and Greg said. I do carry cash around for tips. In fact, this one time I went to the bank, and because I like to have a bunch of ones and fives on me for the sake of tipping, especially because there's a lot of times when you need to tip somebody like a valet $2, you know. So I go to the bank, and I asked the teller, I was like, hey, can I have $100 worth of ones? And he just looks at me and he's like, strip club.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Really?

[Paula Pant]

Yeah, it's classic.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

But what about splitting the bill? What about splitting? You know, Greg said, you know, hey, I figure out my part, and I put my 2650 down. Instead of splitting it evenly, I'm just. Does that sound tactless to you?

[Paula Pant]

No. If it's just myself and one or two other friends, if it's a small group, I'll just throw down a credit card. If it's a large group, I'll usually pay in cash just so the server doesn't have to run eight different Cards.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah.

Yeah.

[Paula Pant]

You know, I figure it'll just be easier for them. So I calculate my percentage. I will. I won't calculate it down to the penny, but if it's 26, 50, I might round up to 30, throw that in there, and then let them figure out the rest.

[Greg McFarlane]

I was starting with the assumption that the nine other people at the party and myself are not all asking for separate checks.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Right.

[Greg McFarlane]

To me, that is tactlessness. If I was at a table where somebody said that separate checks for everyone, please, I would look at the server and say, I completely apologize. That came out of someone else's mouth, not mine.

[Paula Pant]

Yeah, yeah, but you know how sometimes the server will give you one check and then the table hands back? Like, here are eight cards. Could you please put $4 on this one, $6 on this one? You know, so it's. It's one check, but the table tries to pay with, like, an entire catalog full of cards.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Right?

[Len Penzo]

Yeah.

[Greg McFarlane]

And I think. I think this is where the customer is always right, reaches its. Reaches its logical conclusion. And at that point, the server, the manager, needs to put their foot down and said, all right, give me one card. And then the next time you people go out together, go to the next person in line, figure it out yourself.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I want to ask one more question about cash here, which is, you know, we don't deal in conspiracy theories here, but let's do it. Now, there's this idea that we've seen a little bit in. In Europe around cashless societies and also negative interest rates. And, Paul, I think we'll stick with you here. Have you seen this?

[Paula Pant]

I am not really familiar with this.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Okay, so banks having negative interest rates, meaning governments want you to take your money out and spend it to keep the economy moving.

[Paula Pant]

Right.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Don't keep so much money in the bank. However, if we have a cashless society, you don't have the option of just putting it in, you know, Len Penzo's bunker.

You.

You have to either spend the money

or pay a bank, one or the other.

And it just. I keep hearing this conspiracy theory that as we go toward a cashless society, we're all kind of handcuffed to the system that we might not want to be a part of. Haven't heard anything of that.

[Paula Pant]

I always. I've heard people bounce around the phrase cashless society, but I thought that they were simply referring to the fact that we tend to use debit cards and credit cards more and we make payments electronically.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

No, I'm talking about making.

[Paula Pant]

I didn't Realize that people literally meant some type of conspiracy theory.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That just.

[Paula Pant]

That sounds a little wacky to me.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, no, not conspiracy theory. We talk about cashless society. We talk about completely getting rid of cash and governments completely getting. Len, have you heard about this?

[Len Penzo]

Absolutely. And a cashless society is a banker's dream. Why do bankers want a cashless society? They want a cashless society because a cashless society will prevent bank runs. If you get rid of all cash, banks will never have to ever worry about a bank run because they can close your account instantaneously and stop you from pulling. It's the ultimate in capital controls. So yes, a cashless society is very dangerous. And you probably knew I was going to say that. But yeah, that's what all banks want. And by the way, we have negative interest rates here in America. Remember real negative real interest rates, which is the nominal interest rate minus the inflation rate. We already have negative real interest rates here in America, whereas in Europe they actually have nominal negative. And then it's even worse with the inflation.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And nominal is what I'm talking about. If you combine cashless society with nominal negative interest rates, we've got yum yum for the bank. I think. Greg, have you heard of this?

[Greg McFarlane]

Yes, and I think it's a sky is falling kind of thing. As long as politicians hire prostitutes, we will never, ever have a cashless society.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I think that's a great place to leave that one. Greg gets the last word on two of them in a row. Nice work.

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Let's move on to our third piece, which comes to us from RFDTV.com here's something this written by Andrew Hauser answers to kids tough money questions. And I don't really care what they say. I want to ask you guys these tough money questions. All right, so Len, let's start with you. Kid asks you, how much money do you make? What do you tell your kid?

[Len Penzo]

I tell my kid how much money I make.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Do you really?

[Len Penzo]

I certainly do. Yeah. My kids know how much I make. Absolutely.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

So do you think that the kid really wants to know? Exactly. I mean, and don't you worry about the kid going to school and just telling all their friends, my dad, I really don't care.

[Len Penzo]

I've never understood the stigma of people knowing how much you make if you choose, you know, to me, it's not a big deal. It's your income's your income. So to me, it's more. The only reason you might want to be embarrassed about it is if you're living beyond your means. And then people can say, oh, you Only make this much, but you're living like a king. Now, that'd be something to be embarrassed about. But if you live below your means, heck, I don't know what the stigma is, and I've tried to teach that to my kids. It's just a number. The real thing is, do you stay living within your means and the actual number you make? It doesn't matter.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Paul, A kid asks you how much money you make, you're probably not giving him the exact number.

[Paula Pant]

Well, I mean, again, I'm speaking only in hypotheticals because I don't have any children. But if I was worried that the kid would. If I lived in, say, a small town where a lot of people knew me and I was worried that the kid would like, blab about it and all of a sudden the whole neighborhood knows, that would be my reason for wanting to not reveal a number. It wouldn't be for the sake of protecting the kid. It would just be for the sake of not letting number get out generally.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

But to Len's point, why does it matter? Why does it matter that it gets out?

[Paula Pant]

Because people often treat you differently depending on the ideas and assumptions that they hold about a person with a given amount of money. So if a person finds out that you have a lot of money, they might, for example, start expecting you to pick up the tab when you go out places. Or maybe they'll ask you for a loan or maybe, you know, like, it changes the dynamic of the relationship a little bit, you know, for close relationships, sure, I'm fine with letting close, close friends and family. No, actually, screw the family, just close friends. I'm fine with letting them know my net worth, but I just. I don't want casual acquaintances knowing that because that can interfere with our dynamic, our social dynamic.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. Greg, do you let them know or not?

[Greg McFarlane]

First of all, by the way, if you have a broad enough cable or satellite package, RFD TV is fantastic. Crop reports, shows about poultry, all in 480p with minimal production values. I'm serious, it's a great network. But if I had kids, if a gigantic, overwhelming if. I would probably understate. Yes, I would lie to my children by a few percentage points. Just knowing full well that the kids would share this with their friends at school or more likely the teachers would overhear it and yeah, I would just. I wouldn't need the headache. I would be glad to trade honesty for a quieter life.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You'd increase that number then. But you say 2 or 3%. You really mean like 50, don't you? You give the kids some huge number that they tell their teacher.

[Greg McFarlane]

Absolutely not. I would go in the opposite direction. I would lowball it. I would. I would rather have people thinking I'm poor than thinking I'm rich.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I like the other one, my dad, Greg. He's a bajillionaire.

[Len Penzo]

Hey, and remember, whatever the kids say at school, it's all hearsay. Nobody knows for sure. I mean, you're being truthful to your kids, but nobody knows what your kids, you know, if they're telling the truth or what. Anyways, right?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

How about this question? Why can Emma's family afford to go on vacation? But, Paula, we can't.

[Paula Pant]

That's. That's a tough one to answer. But what I would say is that people spend based on their priorities. So it might be the. Emma's family prioritizes going on vacation, but we have different priorities, and we've decided to put our money there. So that way it doesn't sound like scarcity or lack. It sounds like a conscious decision that you've decided that you value X more than you value Y. Ooh.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Len, I bet you would do what Paula did, but you probably change it to be this way, because this is what I do. Len. I would say. I'd say, well, Emma's family, they value vacations, and we value actually having some money.

[Len Penzo]

Yeah, well, that's the first thing I would say. I would give a series of answers. There's lots of answers to this question, right? One of the answers, hey, maybe Emma's family just has more money than we do. Or two, like you said, maybe they value vacations more than we value other things. And I would point out other things that we have purchased in lieu of the vacation. The vacation being the opportunity cost of buying for something else that we went for. Or it could just be that, hey, we're saving for a vacation, but we. We don't have enough money yet for that vacation. We're gonna have to wait one more year. I was like, one of these days, you know?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, I was being passive aggressive, by the way. There's no way I'd say that that's because Emma's family's losers and they spend every dime they make. That's why I kid.

[Len Penzo]

And you could say this is. You could say, hey, who just. They might be. Who says they could afford it? Maybe they're putting us all on the credit card. Seriously.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, but I wouldn't say that because my kid's gonna go back.

[Len Penzo]

I wouldn't either.

[Paula Pant]

Either.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, my dad says your dad probably can't afford it. That'd be horrible.

[Len Penzo]

Yeah. Oh, my God, yes.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, let's see if we can get Greg back in on this one. Greg, why can't we just buy that now?

[Greg McFarlane]

God, again, this is just yet another reason why I could not be a parent. I would just say change the subject, or I guess I couldn't smack them for something like that. But I wish I had a definitive answer for that. No, I guess I could explain to them the concept of economics. I mean, there's scarcity. It's like Paula says, it's not afford everything. It's afford anything. Even again, for the second time, he comes up in the conversation today. But I assume that Warren Buffett told his kids, there's a limit to what I can indulge you with. And yeah, my limit is going to be less than Warren Buffett's. And you can keep asking why and tugging at my shoulder and complaining or making puppy dog eyes. It's still not going to happen. And this is why I had a vasectomy.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That's what I was going to say. This whole article is birth control for you, isn't it, Craig?

[Greg McFarlane]

Oh, my God, yes. This or a trip to Disneyland. Take your pick.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Len, your kids must have said this before. Why can't we just buy this now? They must have thrown a tantrum or two.

[Len Penzo]

Oh, my God. If there's a kid out there who has not said that, I mean, you got to be kidding. I tell you what, when they say that, I just say because it's either because we don't have the money or you don't have the money. What is this we? You know, so if it's something more personal to them, it's because you don't have the money. If it's something bigger, like a vacation, I usually say because we don't have the money, or we have other priorities. It's really not hard, you know, you just have to put your foot down and not waver and not cave in.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Paul, I'm going to go to you for this last one. You tell your hypothetical child that you don't have any money. And they say, well, why can't you just use the credit card?

[Paula Pant]

You know, I actually heard a kid say something similar where the mom said, oh, we don't have any money. And the kid said, well, why don't you just go to that machine and get some in reference to the atm. That was a cool question, actually, because it, like, gave her the opportunity to talk about where that money actually comes from. You know, that money doesn't come from a plastic card nor does it come from a machine. You know, she gets to explain the invisible process behind that that leads to the demonstration of the card or the machine. So, yeah, I thought that was really cool. Basically, it was just an opening segue into like, you know, like, mommy, where does money come from? Essentially, sort of a question.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Are you saying that you listened to a mother give the money birds and bees talk to her kid?

[Paula Pant]

I did, yeah. Yeah. It was a family friend. So I was there. I was at her house and we were all sitting around the dining table when this happened.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

When an ATM machine and a dollar love each other very much.

[Paula Pant]

Exactly.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. Right, right.

But how do you fit the $2 fee into that analogy?

The ATM fee?

Is that the creepy part of the story?

[Doug]

I don't know.

[Paula Pant]

I think that goes back to Greg's comment about how as long as politicians are buying prostitutes.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Right, exactly. All right. I think that's a great place to end this. Mr. McFarland, where can people get that awesome book control your cash?

[Greg McFarlane]

Well, they could ask Len Penzo, but I'm sure he's not going to give up his copy. So they can buy it at Amazon.com thinking they can download the Kindle edition. If you don't have a Kindle, buy a Kindle already. They're like 60 bucks for $7. Or you can get a hard copy. And as you pointed out to me the other day, the hard copies run for about. I think it's upwards of $500. And those are ones I haven't even autographed.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yes.

[Greg McFarlane]

Paperback from Right now used from $448.28. There was one person selling one new for $999.83.

[Len Penzo]

I'm going on Amazon right now. I'm going to put my copy up for $10,000. Break.

[Greg McFarlane]

That is from a seller with a 96% positive rating on thousands of transactions.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Your book has become a collector's item. That's what you're saying?

[Greg McFarlane]

Apparently, yeah. They can't download copies of it fast enough.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That is fantastic. Mr. Penzo, what's [e-mail]?

[Len Penzo]

hey, on lenpenzo.com I share the story of what happens when you can't pay the restaurant bill. It's a true story where I it was time to pay my bill and I didn't have my money.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

So is this a dine and dash story?

[Len Penzo]

Well, I was considering it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, man, I can't wait to read that one. That's fantastic. Paula Pant what's going on at Afford Anything?

[Paula Pant]

On the Afford Anything podcast, we have an interview with Jenny Blake. She is the author of the book Pivot as well as the author of Life After College. And she talks about what to do if you want a career change, you're not happy with the job that you've got, you want to go somewhere else, you want to do something different. How do you facilitate that transition? And we also have an Ask Paula episode where we chat about all kinds of questions that the listeners submitted. So tune into the Afford Anything podcast for that.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Awesome. We'll have links to all that that phenomenal stuff in our show notes at stacking. Benjamins.com Guys, thanks for playing.

[Greg McFarlane]

Thank you.

[Paula Pant]

Thank you.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, that's gonna do it for this week.

And guess what? It's also gonna do it for this. Eight weeks of shows. For those of you new to the podcast, we take a break after every eight weeks. What we found was before we started taking a break, we would find ourselves posting shows later. The guests weren't as good anymore. And we like having a fresh show with guests that surprise you and are

new and are fun and are ideas

that you might not have thought of. And we really think a lot about that topic. All right, Ghost Decks and Benjamins, everybody.

Bye. Bye.

[Doug]

Paula Pant appears courtesy of affordanything.com Greg McFarlane appears courtesy of Control your cash. And special thanks to Len Penzo from lenpenzo.com this show was created by Joe Sal Sehei, produced by Richie Rudder Reese and engineered by the amazing Steve Stewart. Kathleen Selmans handles design, newsletter and classroom opportunities. If you'd like to learn more, head to stackingbenjamins.com classes online. Visit us on Twitter, Benjamin's cast or on our Facebook page. Shannon Cowan is our community manager and social media guru. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor Doug, and I'm pretty much the guy in charge of everything around here. Trust me, this well oiled machine didn't get like this all by itself. SB Podcasts may receive payment on the show from sponsors and guests in the form of books, giveaway items, discounts, or other remuneration. There's no way you would take advice from these dorks. But like Joe's mom always says, don't take advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. And before making any financial moves, consult with a real financial advisor.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh my God, was that fun. Greg, thanks a ton.

[Greg McFarlane]

Thank you. I gotta run.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yep. See ya.

[Paula Pant]

Bye.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

He actually said goodbye this time.

[Len Penzo]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

The hell's going on there?