Should You Max Out a 401(k) You Don't Even Like? SB1882

Summary

---

The Stacking Benjamins Show

Episode SB1882 | August 10, 2026

Should You Max Out a 401(k) You Don't Even Like?

Hosts: Joe Saul-Sehy, Josh “OG” Bannerman, CFP
Guest Co-host: Anna Allum
Key Theme: Personalizing your financial choices in less-than-ideal circumstances—with listener questions on maximizing workplace retirement plans, special needs planning, and Roth conversions.

---

Episode Overview

This lively, listener-driven episode dives deep into real-life money dilemmas stackers face, with Joe, OG, and Anna tackling complex questions: Should you keep maxing a 401(k) if you hate its investment options? How should families set up money for special needs children? Should you prioritize new Roth contributions or Roth conversions in a low-tax year? The hosts provide relatable, actionable advice while balancing technical explanations, humor, and empathy.

---

Key Discussions & Insights

---

1. Should You Max Out a 401(k) You Don’t Like?

[08:02 – 21:21]

Listener Question (Shane):
Shane’s wife has a high-income job with a 401(k) at T. Rowe Price, but the investment options are mostly expensive, actively managed funds with high turnover. The plan offers a Schwab Personal Choice Retirement Account (PCRA) self-directed brokerage window, but information is sparse. He's unsure whether to stick with the plan or look elsewhere.

Insights & Advice:

• Active vs. Passive & Fees:
  • Turnover doesn’t matter in a 401(k) due to tax deferral.
    Joe: “Inside of a 401k, turnover isn't something we generally pay attention to because there's no tax friction.” [10:47]
  • “Getting hung up on active versus passive management is a ‘5% solution’—it doesn’t matter much in the grand scheme.”
    OG: “This is the thing that matters like that much in the overall outcome of your lifetime goal. So don’t get hung up on that.” [12:19]
• Don’t Miss the Match:
  • Leaving $20k/year in employer match on the table “is absolutely insanity.”
    OG: “To entertain the idea of giving up $20,000 because I'm not enamored with the fund choices, I think is absolutely insanity.” [11:51]
• Explore the Brokerage Window (PCRA):
  • Self-directed brokerage options are great for those wanting broader choices.
    Anna: “Some 401ks…will offer you a separate account where you can basically take the money…put it into this brokerage account…you have a lot more options, if not almost unlimited options.” [15:26]
  • Expect a platform fee (~$50/year) and typical ETF expense ratios, but usually nothing hidden.
• Don’t Neglect Behavioral Simplicity:
  • Even with imperfect choices, automating savings fosters better financial outcomes.
    OG: “The vast majority of people would not save a penny if it wasn't automatically taken out of their accounts.” [14:45]
• Advocacy:
  • Leverage influence: If you’re high up in your company, consider lobbying HR for better 401(k) investments.
• Perspective on T. Rowe Price & Spartan Indexes:
  • Don’t fear these funds—they’re reputable. Don’t let “Twitter/yelling” scare you away.
    OG: “T. Rowe Price, a great company…It’s like, come on, you’re fine.” [19:36]

Memorable Moment:
Playful debate on fruit pastries and fund turnover:
OG: “Turnover matters when you’re talking about fruit. I’m okay with either apple or cherry.” [10:00]

---

2. Roth IRA Conversions vs. Contributions While in a Low Tax Bracket

[21:45 – 31:14]

Listener Question (Kyle):
Kyle (stationed overseas, military spouse, low-tax year) wonders if he should use his savings to pay taxes on a Roth conversion from a pre-tax IRA, or instead simply contribute new money to a Roth IRA.

Insights & Advice:

• Either Is Beneficial, but...
  Anna: “This is really hard…Kyle can’t go wrong with either direction. It could be more beneficial to do the conversion. It could be more beneficial to invest it.” [23:41]
• Key Consideration: Lost Contribution Opportunity
  Roth IRAs have annual contribution limits—if you skip a year, you can’t make it up. OG: “You never get to go back and say, I finally have enough money to put money in my Roth again…It’s the same math whether you’re putting $7,000 in or converting $7,000.” [25:41]
• Optimal Approach: Stretch and Do Both
  If possible, contribute new money and convert some of your traditional IRA while in a low tax bracket.
  OG: “Can you stretch and do both? This is a three-year opportunity to dump $14,000 in my wife’s Roth and do a conversion…Ultimately, Tomato, Tomäto—you’ll be happy you have Roth money in 20 years.” [27:10]
• If You Can’t Do Both:
  Favor new annual Roth contributions (for irreplaceable “space”), then do systematic conversions with additional funds. Joe: “I would bias toward the new money if possible, then with whatever is left, convert.” [28:38]

Memorable Moment:
OG’s big-picture framing:
OG: “All of this is your money. It all counts—it all dovetails together.” [29:26]

---

3. Financial Planning for a Child with Special Needs

[40:28 – 52:00]

Listener Question (Kat):
Kat’s son has a rare neurodevelopmental condition. She asks for advice setting up a special needs trust, handling monetary gifts, and using relevant accounts without disqualifying him from government benefits. She praises the value of an HSA for medical expenses.

Insights & Advice:

• The Power of the HSA:
  Using HSA funds for current health costs brings real-time relief; don’t just save receipts for the future.
• Leverage State Resources:
  Talk to the hospital/clinic social worker who knows state-specific benefits and programs. Sometimes diagnoses can unlock Medicaid eligibility regardless of parental income. Anna: "Social workers have seen everything and know your state. The genetic condition might qualify for Medicaid…All our medical decisions do not revolve around money." [45:44]
• ABLE Accounts:
  • Tax-advantaged accounts for individuals with disabilities.
  • More flexibility than a 529: can cover housing, everyday support, and more.
  • Crucially: does not count toward means-tested government benefits.
    Anna: "An ABLE account…shouldn’t affect their other government support." [47:52]
• Special Needs Trusts:
  • Interact with existing estate plan; can be created now or activated at parents’ passing.
  • Critically prevents an inheritance from disqualifying a child from benefits.
  • Ask lawyer: When does the trust activate? What triggers it? How does it work with current/future benefits? Anna: "It might be activated now…or upon your passing, so the child’s inheritance sits in that trust, not a revocable trust, where it would impact government supports." [49:15]
• Guardianship & Insurance:
  • Revisit guardians/custodians for special needs context; different skills/support systems may be required.
  • Life insurance needs may differ, often higher, for families with lifelong-dependent children.
• Flexibility:
  • Revisit plans as your child’s needs evolve.

Memorable Moment:
Kat: “We basically tsunami’d her [daughter’s] savings so we wouldn’t need to contribute more in the future. Can I trademark that term?” [41:57]
Joe: “That is a tsunami. She should be able to trademark that.” [41:57]

---

4. Financial Action Month Action Step: Meal Planning

[52:53 – 58:40]

A “Stacko” action square: Meal Plan and Shop with a List

• Anna shares her Pinterest, “egg roll in a bowl,” and ChatGPT-powered meal planning tricks.
• Joe recalls interviewing Mr. Anti Food Waste and how meal planning cut their grocery bill by 20%.
• Aldi love: “It is so quick, you don’t have options…But don’t be afraid to try it, for time and money savings.” [55:56]
• Use ChatGPT for creative recipe ideas with random pantry items (“what goes well with this spice?”).

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On 401(k) Decisions:
  “Don’t get hung up on [fund choices]. The real money is in the match and the automation.”
  —OG [12:19]
• On Special Needs Estate Planning:
  “It’s really just understanding that picture for the child…what is it protecting them from, what are they going to be protected from, from their benefits?”
  —Anna [49:15]
• On Roth Opportunities:
  “You never get to go back and say, I finally have enough money to put money in my Roth again.”
  —OG [25:41]
• Listener Empowerment:
  “She is going through an incredibly challenging time. How positive and upbeat does Kat sound? I want to be in a sinking ship with her…”
  —Doug [42:01]
• Meal Planning & Money:
  “What’s in my fridge that’s going to go bad if I don’t use it today?”
  —Joe [55:07]

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 08:02 — Shane’s 401(k) question
• 11:43 — The insanity of leaving free money on the table
• 15:26 — PCRA/self-directed brokerage window explained
• 17:52 — Spartan Indexes/Collective Investment Trusts
• 21:45 — Kyle’s Roth conversion dilemma
• 25:41 — OG on Roth contributions vs. conversions
• 29:45 — Coordinating your financial silos
• 40:28 — Kat’s special needs planning call
• 47:52 — ABLE accounts explained
• 49:15 — Special needs trust mechanics & considerations
• 52:53 — Meal planning and grocery savings tips

---

Episode Takeaways

• Maximize workplace benefits, even if investments aren’t ideal; options like self-directed brokerage windows can help.
• Don’t underestimate the importance of automation in wealth-building (401(k)s make saving easier).
• In a low-tax year, try to BOTH contribute new Roth dollars and convert pre-tax savings if possible; if not, prioritize annual Roth contributions.
• Special needs families should incorporate ABLE accounts and a thoughtfully structured special needs trust into their estate planning—talk to local social workers for tailored resources.
• Simple actions like meal planning and grocery-list shopping make a surprising difference in your budget—use tech to simplify it, and consider discount grocers for more savings.

---

For Listeners

Have a money question or story?
Leave yours at stackingbenjamins.com/yelldownstairs for a chance to be featured and help other stackers!

Episode hashtag: #StackingBenjamins #401k #RothConversion #SpecialNeedsPlanning #MealPlanning

---

Transcript

[Joe]

In business, there's no room for guesswork. Every shipment matters. Every deadline counts. When you're trying to keep operations running smoothly, the last thing you need is uncertainty. That's why reliability is at the core of USPS Ground Advantage. Every package moves through a secure nationwide network tracked from door to door with affordable upfront pricing and delivery you can depend on. Because knowing your logistics are handled lets you focus on everything else. Visit USPS.com ground advantage to start shipping with confidence. USPS ground advantage. We mean business Sleep Numbers New collections

[Tammy]

are designed to adapt to the changing nature of your life and your sleep needs. Whether it's the personalized comfort of the Comfort Mode mattress, the targeted pressure relief of the Comfort Next mattress, or the climate collection that actively cools or warms to help you fall asleep and stay asleep.

[Joe]

And now get early access to our biggest sale of the year. Save 25% on the new Comfort Next

[OG]

Lux for a limited time only at a Sleep number store or sleepnumber.com.

[Kyle]

i mean, you're living in your mother's basement writing a blog on finance. Really?

[OG]

You should stay off the computer, son,

[Kyle]

and get a job. Seriously.

[Doug]

Live from Joe's mom's basement, it's the Stacking Benjamin Show. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And on today's show, let's move the spotlight off me because, baby, today it's on you. We're answering your questions on dumping your 401k, setting up money for special needs situations, and converting your money toward Roth IRAs. And if that weren't enough, we're pulling another idea off the Stacko game card to help you win during Financial Action month. And speaking of action, halfway through this festival, I'll spring into action with some mind bending financial trivia. Sure to impress your friends, neighbors and colleagues. You're gonna be famous. And now, two people who famously one time found themselves starting a financial podcast, and a third person who's here to save it. It's Joe Og and Anna.

[Joe]

Hey there, stackers. Happy Monday to you. Hope you had a fantastic weekend. I know that I did. And I know these people are already at the microphone. First of all, gentleman, across the card table from me, Mr. OG is here. Ready to do another week, man.

[OG]

Ready to do another week, man.

[Joe]

Yep, we have.

[Anna]

That's the spirit.

[Doug]

It's weak with two E's, right?

[OG]

Sure.

[Joe]

He's like, eee Ea. Who's counting? Who knows? And of course, the other voice you

[OG]

hear, I was told to be nice

[Anna]

today and we can really sense the Change in attitude.

[OG]

This is me being nice.

[Doug]

We tell you that every day and it never works.

[Joe]

I want to go from 15% to 18% today because it's going to be good. And alum's here. How are you, Anna?

[Anna]

I'm good, Joe. How are you doing?

[Joe]

I am better. Now that you're here with us, you ready to answer some listener questions?

[Anna]

Yeah. Let's hear them.

[Joe]

We got some stackers that have some great questions. By the way, if you want to leave your questions for us, head to stacking benjamin.com yell downstairs and you can yell your question down the steps to the basement and we'll be happy to answer them on a future show and some of you did today. And man, Doug, as you mentioned, we've got some great ones today.

[Doug]

We do. Yeah. I'm looking forward to these. I. I'm waiting for the person who literally yells down the basement. Hey, ma meloaf.

[Joe]

That's all you got to do. That's all you got to do. We've got a couple sponsors who help us make sure we can keep on keeping on. We're going to hear from a couple of them now and then we're going to hear from a couple while you're contemplating Doug's cleverly worded trivia halfway through today's extravaganza Monday festival here on the podcast, we're going to hear from a couple of them now. And then, Anna, og Doug and I tackling your questions. Let's do it. Well, I love the fact that I can finally say these words. Stackers. The field kit is ready. So if you have always wondered what's a place where I can combine all these financial apps into one simple place? My budgeting app, my net worth tracking app, my privacy protection app, my subscription app and my the app that I use to make sure that my credit is not being stolen all in one place Feel kit does all that you want to spend your time exploring Stackers not worrying about your money. Fieldkit takes care of all that. Stackybenjamins.com FieldKit and if you get the 201 our newsletter, you'll also find out we're gonna be doing some walkthroughs so you can take a look at it. Head to stackybenjamins.com FieldKit for more. Today's episode is brought to you by Aqua True. Here's a surprising statistic. 3 out of 4 US homes a potentially harm contaminants in their tap water. And even when water looks perfectly clear, it can contain things like chlorine lead forever chemicals and even microplastics. This is why I was interested when I learned about Aqua True. Aqua True is a countertop water purifier that's been tested, certified to remove 84 contaminants. It's patented four stage reverse osmosis system goes way beyond standard pitcher and refrigeration filters. The best part? No plumbing, no installation. Just cleaner water from a system sits right on your counter. Plus 98% of customers say their drinking water is cleaner, safer and healthier. Go to aquatrue.com now for 20 off your purifier using promo code Stacking. Aquatrue even comes with a 30 day best tasting water guarantee. That's aquatrue.com spelled A Q U A T R U.com promo code stacking Back in my early days of financial planning, buying life insurance was so difficult. And frankly for a lot of people it still is difficult. But the funny thing is, and not funny haha, but just, I guess, ironic. We all know that we need life insurance and we don't want to overpay for it. We want to get on with our life. We want it to protect us and then we want to do other things well. Ethos makes getting life insurance fast and easy. It's 100% online. You get a quote in seconds, you apply in minutes. And get this, you get same day coverage. No medical exam. You just answer a few simple health questions. You can get up to $3 million in coverage. Some policies are as low as $30 a month. As of March 2025, Business Insider named Ethos the number one no medical exam instant life insurance provider. Ethos says 4.8 out of 5 stars on Trustpilot with over 3,000 reviews. If you're hearing my voice, you know who you are when I tell you you need life insurance. Protect your family with life insurance from Ethos. Now by going to ethos.com/sb it is little as 10 minutes you can get your free quote and up to $3 million in coverage. Ethos.com/SB. You'll then get on with your life. But then you're protected. Stackers, this is ethos.comsb ethos.com SB application times and rates may vary. We got stackers lined up ready to ask some questions. Let's start off with our good friend Shane. Hey Shane, what's going on man?

[Caller]

Hi, I'm calling because my wife and I aren't satisfied with the investment options in her 401k. I understand the traditional advice in this situation is to at least invest the minimum to get the match and then just put the rest in your brokerage. However, my wife is very well compensated and contributing the minimum to get the match actually maxed out. The 401k match ends up being around $20,000, which is great, but then we have to find somewhere to actually invest all this money. Our 401k is through T. Rowe Price. It's not the fees that give us pause, but the prevalence of active funds without broad diversification and with turnover rates generally greater than 50%, including one with a whopping 230. The index offerings are all Spartan index pools, which I understand are collective investment trusts. I've found it hard to find information about their holdings and I can't speak to the bonds because we're 100% equity. So my question is that the 401k prospectus offers a self directed brokerage through a Schwab Personal Choice retirement account. I'm a bit unnerved because this sounds like exactly what I'm looking for. It says they're going to charge about 50 bucks a year, but is that going to be the only fee if I stick to something simple like ETFs? And I can't find a list of the investments available in this type of account. But the prospectus does say that the plan may limit the investment alternatives we may purchase in the brokerage account, but provides no further details. Is this, oddly, what I'm looking for?

[Joe]

Thanks, Shane. Thanks so much for the question and congratulations, by the way, on having a 401k that you can actually use. Although it sounds OG like he's not in love with the choices. But let's go through some of this because T. Rowe Price, a responsible company, he said fees are, you know, he's not that worried about the fees, but he is worried about the fact that they're active funds and he's worried about the turnover. Can we talk first of all about the turnover? Because frankly, I don't think turnover really matters inside a 401k, does it?

[OG]

I thought he was talking about like apple or cherry turnovers. And I would 100% agree that the turnover matters when you're talking about fruit.

[Joe]

Wait a minute, hold on, hold on.

[OG]

I'm okay with either apple or cherry. No, I've never had a peach one, but I'm kind of a fan of peaches. So there's. I was told to be nice. Doug, don't shake your head back and forth because if I actually talk about what I want to talk about, I'll get yelled at for being mean.

[Doug]

Your fruit choices are wrong. There's only one kind of turnover. It's an apple turnover. None of the others are allowed.

[Anna]

Okay, and why is that, Doug?

[Doug]

Because it's the only one that's good. The rest of them are just imposters. There's no cherry turnover in this case.

[Joe]

Let's talk about what turnover actually means.

[Kyle]

Right.

[Joe]

Which is something completely different. A turnover is the number of times that a manager will sell a position. If turnover is 100%, that means that 100% of the slate gets wiped clean. They're buying all different stuff. Which means that if you're in a taxable brokerage account that you know, your tax obligation on that might be, could be potentially hefty. But inside of a 401k turnover isn't something that we generally pay a lot of attention to because of the fact that there's no friction, there's no tax friction on this position.

[OG]

This whole idea of active versus passive thing I think goes to an extreme. It's just not a hill that I want to die on. We get saved here because of the PCA account, which I'm sure Anna can talk about. But to entertain the idea of not getting. Did he say he gets a $28,000 match?

[Joe]

He gets a $20,000.

[Anna]

He doesn't get anything. His sugar mama gets it. Let me just clarify there, okay, This,

[Doug]

I like where this is going.

[OG]

So to entertain the idea of giving up $20,000 because I'm not enamored with, you know, the fun choices, I think is absolutely insanity.

[Joe]

Well, he's still going to do it. He's just looking at the self directed brokerage, which we'll get into.

[OG]

No, I'm saying like, I know, but that's why we get saved by that. But it sounded like at the beginning it was, you know, the question was like, I might not do this because, you know, I don't like the options, you know. And he said, well, usually it's just get the match, but the match in our case would be 20k. The other thing that I think might be worth exploring here is it sounds like the missus here is fairly highly compensated, maybe high up in the organization, maybe has a little wait behind an email or two to the HR department and go like, hey, we don't love these choices. Like what are we getting out of this deal? Can we, you know, can we entertain another proposal? And maybe the company's big enough to entertain a couple other proposals from some other companies as well. So that would Be something, you know, like a longer term process. You know, if you're so hell bent on getting rid of T. Rowe Price active management, passive management. This is a 5% solution thing, right? Like this is the thing that matters like that much in the overall outcome of your lifetime goal. So don't get hung up on that. Don't get hung up on the fees, although you know, they can be pricey in a retirement plan. There was another question that I saw that somebody asked about. Look, these things cost money to maintain. You know, there's actuaries, there's tax forms that have to get filed timely. There's people that literally are signing off on it with the threat of jail time saying, hey, if this isn't right, you are subject to criminal prosecution. So there's a lot of liability associated with making sure that these plans are designed correctly and executed correctly on an annual basis. Somebody's got to write the check for that. And when you're in a small organization, a lot of times that gets passed on to the participants because the owner has a choice of do we have this tool and we all kind of collectively pay for it or do we just not have the tool? Because I'm not going to spend thousands of dollars on my own to do this.

[Joe]

Which means then rightly so, people like Shane, then let's say that it was high fee. And I understand, Shane, that we're not talking about you here because you said the fees are not an issue and I would generally zero price is reasonable. Yeah, yeah. But for people that have that, I think it's right for them to think, well, what if I don't invest here? Let's go elsewhere. However, when we look at two things. When we look at the cost of not being putting money in a 401k, your options outside of their OG not phenomenal. And then number in terms of taxes, in terms of taxes, not phenomenal. And then what's the benefit like in terms of real dollars that you get from that? But second, also behavior, right?

[OG]

Yeah.

[Joe]

It's just so much damn easier to put Money in your 401k.

[OG]

The reality is, is that the vast majority of people would not save a penny if it wasn't automatically taken out of their accounts on a frequent basis. So the fact that it comes out of your paycheck before you get it is for a lot of people, and I'm not saying that this is true for Shane and his family, but for some people, like that's the only savings that's happening is because it's coming out automatically before I get that net paycheck. If you are going to play that game of like, this is too expensive and I'm just going to invest a little bit and save the rest elsewhere. Make sure you're actually doing the saving elsewhere because statistically you won't do it because life happens. Anna, do you want to talk about PCRA option and what that looks like in, in this guy's case or anybody's case for that matter?

[Anna]

I think it's a great option that you have that as a, as a savings tool instead of just the straight 401k option. So I think some of the questions along with that, basically some 401ks and you have to check with your plan to see if you have this as an option, will offer you a separate account where you can basically take the money and you might have to keep some money in the regular 401k Bucke it, but you can take some money and put it into this brokerage account. It's still your 401k, but you manage it. You have a lot more options, if not almost unlimited options in what you want to invest. So I think that answers one of Shane's questions. Like they typically aren't going to give you a list because the list would be ginormous.

[OG]

Yeah, it's everything.

[Anna]

Yeah, it's everything. They just might limit you on like some alternatives and other things like that.

[Joe]

And when they say they limit you, Anna, historically what they limit you on isn't the vanilla choices like a straight up etf. They're not. They might not let you do the wisdom tree 3x leverage leverage thingy. You know, where you're really betting more than investing.

[Anna]

Yeah, exactly. So you're going to be able to find the Vanguard or Fidelity funds that you want to invest in that will. That's not going to be a problem. Which sounds like what he's looking for. You might have to keep some money within the actual 401k into the funds that you don't like. But hopefully OG made that feel a little bit better and then you can take a portion of that and put it over into the brokerage account. Now, along with the fees, you should call them and ask what are their trading fees involved with this? Obviously you've already found out that there's some sort of platform fee involved. There's going to be an expense ratio within the ETFs. But again, you probably already understand that. But other than that, you could just call them and ask like what fees are involved in using this Brokerage.

[Joe]

But generally speaking in the past, Anna, to me it's been that 50 fee to use it and then the expense of the investment. There it is.

[Anna]

Yeah. Especially if you're working with Schwab, more than likely that's really all you're going to see.

[Joe]

Super, super easy. I do have a question, Anna, for you about these. Because he said the Spartan indexes, which are more collectives and he can't find them a Morningstar is easily. But my understanding about these indexes are because he said, you know, I, I really don't know what I'm looking at. If it's a Spartan S&P 500, you have the S, you have the Spartan S&P 500.

[Anna]

They're just not showing you all of the details within Morningstar. Like it's not going to be on there. You might be able to find it on their website a little bit more clearly. That might be a good option. But again, like if you go the self directed route and it sounds like Shane understands the basics of how this functions, I don't think you're like, I don't think it should be a scary endeavor to go down.

[OG]

Yeah. And for the PCRA account, super easy to set up and manage. If you've got some capacity there and understanding of Schwab's platform and maybe you have to leave some money in the other side, you know, there's some ratio there perhaps. The other thing I would add is this is a great use case for AI. If you don't know what's in a fund or how it works or whatever, put that into chat and be like, give me a primer. Doug's not even listening.

[Doug]

Yeah, I am. Well done, well done.

[OG]

I just feel dirty saying it that way on what this is about. Like, you know, how do I know what's in here? My goal is to be low cost, passive market based. Like does this accomplish the goal? What asset allocation could I use with these tools? You know, whatever. It's a great use case for getting some research, some kind of deep research behind there to find out what it is exactly that you are buying. If you do have questions, but at least I'm glad Shane's still putting money in his. Shane's wife is still putting money in her 401k, getting 20 grand of matching contributions. That's a lot of cash.

[Joe]

It is a lot of cash and it's great that he is able to get that money invested fairly, fairly easily.

[OG]

And 45,000 a year, it's nice.

[Joe]

Cha Ching, the self direct Directed account is great. I think a great point, too, is if you don't have that available, I wouldn't be afraid of those Spartan funds.

[OG]

I wouldn't be afraid of any of them. Yeah. T. Rowe Price, a great company. I think the thin universe of obsessive Twitter and LinkedIn and Instagramming, probably not as much there, has just bashed this to the point where it's like, oh, my God, you're going to the seventh layer of hell if you happen to buy a fund that, you know, it's like, come on, you're fine. These are all great people who are investing well and probably have a pretty decent track record, honestly. Yeah.

[Joe]

T Row Price funds, generally very highly rated funds. You can look them up in Morningstar.

[OG]

I mean, we could talk about this for hours. But people say the thing that they don't mean to say and then treat it as gospel. What they say is, you can't beat the market, therefore, I have to go passive. And the reality is that no people do beat the market. It's not predictable in advance, and it costs some money to do, hence the little bit higher fee. So statistically, it doesn't make a lot of sense to pay the extra money to try to beat the market. But every day somebody beats the market, you look at the stock market tomorrow, and whatever it does, you can look at your own account and be like, you either did better than it or worse than it. Rarely did. You peg it exactly on the number. So guess what? On the day you did better, congratulations. You're an active manager. You did better than the market.

[Caller]

Whoa.

[OG]

Stop the presses. It's doable. We just don't believe that it's worth paying for trying to do it. That doesn't mean that it can't be done. So, you know, if your options are T. Rowe Price or Fidelity. By the way, plenty of active funds of Fidelity Schwab. Plenty of active funds of Schwab, active funds of Vanguard. Vanguard. All of their bond funds are active. Who knew? Like, oh, wait, wait, wait. What are you talking about? Yeah, surprise, everybody.

[Joe]

Yeah. Great question, Shane. Thank you so much for that.

[OG]

How did I do? I'm being nice. Is that okay?

[Joe]

I thought. And he did pretty well. He was pretty nice on that one.

[OG]

Plenty of velvet.

[Doug]

It's not as entertaining, but it's certainly better for the listener.

[OG]

Okay.

[Caller]

All right.

[OG]

I'll try to strike the better balance for you, Doug.

[Joe]

All right. Let's see if he can do even better as we chat with Kyle. Hey, Kyle. What's on your mind?

[Kyle]

Hi, Joe and OG My wife has been in the military for 20 years and we are stationed overseas. She is 41 and I am 44. They do not have a job right now so our taxable income for federal taxes is in the 12% tax bracket. We are Nevada state residents so we do not pay any state income tax. We are overseas for the next two to three years and my wife may go the full 30 years in the military. I currently have about $120,000 in a traditional IRA that I moved from a work 401k last year and have been thinking maybe I should convert that into a Roth IRA the next few years to the cap of the 12% tax bracket. I have money in savings to pay for the conversion but my question is would I be better served investing that money that I was going to use to pay the taxes for the conversion into my Roth IRA or would I be smarter going with the conversion? We do not know where and when we will eventually settle down and it may be into a income tax heavy state with military pension, Social Security and possible funds from a second career. I am wary of a big jump in taxes and then healthcare costs when we turn 65 from the transition to Medicare from Tricare. Thanks for your help. Appreciate it.

[Joe]

Hey Kyle, thanks for the call and thank you to your wife for her service. Anna, this is an interesting question because he's got this money sitting in savings. He's looking at the fact that he's in a really low tax bracket right now. So this says Roth conversion time may be written all over it because you're going to pay the tax this year. People don't know how this works. You're going to pay the tax right now on that Roth conversion. There'll be no penalty, which is really cool that the government let you do that. Is he better served to just put that money in a new Roth or to use it for the tax to convert money into a Roth?

[Anna]

This is really hard because I, I don't think Kyle can go wrong with either direction he goes in. Like you said, this is.

[Joe]

Well that's the great answer, right? Is that they're both great.

[Anna]

Yeah. And it's also because we don't know what the future looks like. We don't even know what his future looks like. Like he's saying second source of income. Are they moving back to the states and he's going to get a job at that time. Like his future is probably a little bit unknown too. And on top of that, tax rates are also completely unknown for the future. So there's a lot that you can do right now and it could be more beneficial to do the conversion. It could be more beneficial to invest it if you have to pick one. I would probably go down the route of converting if you have the mindset of in the future I'm going to have extra cash flow and we are going to be able to do additional savings. But if you keep it in the pre tax bucket and then you invest that, I also don't think that's a bad idea because then you'll have those buckets, you're going to have the bucket system. I don't know if you've listened to OG and I talk about how it's important to kind of think about entering into retirement with these different buckets of savings. So you have your Pre tax, your 401k, your IRA, then you have your after tax tax free, which is your Roth and then also your brokerage account. It's not bad if we enter into retirement and you have some money sitting in that pre tax bucket. But let's kind of shift our focus over to maybe the Roth at this point if we're not doing that conversion. So again, I don't think you can go wrong.

[Joe]

Yeah, we talk about the three.

[Anna]

Do you feel differently?

[Joe]

Before we go to OG, we talk about the three money buckets on our YouTube channel. If you just go to YouTube.com stackingbenjamins you'll find it under the financial basics course. You'll see a three Money Buckets video that you can watch where we dive into that. But oh gee, how do you feel about this one? Because I have a little different take than Anna does.

[OG]

Well, I think that there's two things with Roth conversions. Just kind of big picture. Number one is you're trying to decide whether or not the tax rate in the future is going to be less than what you're paying taxes on right now. So if you have $100,000 in your IRA, I think that's about what he said and you can convert part of that and pay 12% taxes on that versus what that will grow to in the future and what the tax rates might be in the future with all of your income, that's the evaluation that you're doing. And you're gambling and saying, I think in the future tax rates are going to be higher than what I'm paying right now. Which I think at 12% is pretty rational to say, especially when you forecast out, well, I'll probably get some Social Security, you know, wife will have some Pension, you know, and then at some point in time, we'll have required minimum distributions and, you know, you can kind of run a spreadsheet and think about what that looks like. So I think at 12% is a pretty attractive conversion number. The only thing that would give me a little bit of pause is that the benefit of every calendar year is that every year anew, you get 7,000 bucks you can put in your, in your Roth. And the downside is, is that on December 31st or when the taxes are due, I guess maybe April 15th, your, your 2026 in this case is over. You don't get to go back and say, you know, I finally have enough money to put money in my Roth again, so I'm going to back date and do the last, you know, get my 10 years worth of ROTH contributions in that I didn't have the savings for. So my concern with the skipping the contribution component is you never get to recontribute that money. And it's the same math Whether you're putting 7,000 bucks in or you're converting 7,000 bucks, both are in tax free buckets. In order to contribute $7,000, you had to have made 8,500 bucks to pay taxes on the, you know, $8,500 at 12% to have 7,000 left over to put in your account. Or you convert 8,500 bucks, make 8,500 right by your conversion, and then you pay tax. You know what I mean? Like in my book, it's the same math. My take on this would be to look at it a different way. Can you stretch and do both? Can you go like, you know what, this is the one time where we are in this like ultra low tax bracket. We've got some money on hand. There are some tax benefits from being in the military and working overseas. Potentially depending on where you're located and that sort of stuff, you get some. Can I overdo all of this right now? Really stretch and say this is a three year opportunity to dump 14,000 bucks in my, my wife's Roth and do a conversion. Can we just tighten it a little bit to make this work? And I don't know that that's the case. I mean, in the military, it's not like these guys are getting paid like, you know, hand surgeons. But I might turn this around just a little bit and look at the problem a different way and say, can I do both? Or whatever. But I'm ultimately with Anna Tomato Tomatoes. You'll be happy that you have a bunch of roth money in 20 years from now, make it so.

[Joe]

Yeah. And that's why I said I had a little bit different take because I kind of felt the same way that I would bias toward. I would bias toward the new money if possible. And then with whatever money there still is, if there's money left, then convert as much as I possibly can because of that ticking clock. Yeah.

[OG]

Could you be okay with, let's say, for example, that you've got a cash reserve of $30,000? Well, the most you can put in the Roth right now is 14.

[Caller]

Right.

[OG]

Between, you know, husband and wife, you can do 7,000 each. Right. So that still leaves you, whatever that number is, $16,000 left for taxes. Can you burn the cash reserve down to kind of bare bones for the next two years? You know, can you do all of this and just say, yeah, we're going to look a little tighter on paper than we should because you can always get your Roth money if you need it.

[Kyle]

Right.

[OG]

You can always do a loan from your tsp. That's a terrible idea. But it's, you know, there's money still around. That's my point. I think people look at these silos just like Shane earlier looks at these decisions in like one, one decision tree. It's like, this is my 401k decision. Well, no, all of this is your money. It all counts.

[Joe]

It all dovetails together. Anna, when you're talking to young investor, you know, Kyle put the money in as a traditional 401k originally, maybe that's all he had available and now he wants to make it a Roth. But a lot of people now, when they get out of college, they're looking at, hey, I've got the Roth available right away. Which one do you like better for a investor? Do you like go Roth 100% if possible?

[Anna]

Yeah, absolutely. If you are young and you're starting out and you have the ability to save into a Roth and you're educated enough to know what that is, because that's the other big thing. If you're Investing into a 401k, it's your first corporate job, you might not even know that Roth is an option. But if you do get it into the Roth now, because there are times where we have conversations with clients when they're in to well into their career a little bit more or they're approaching retirement age, they have that hefty Roth bucket and we actually need to start switching them over to pre tax or just start to do a combination of the two a little bit. Just because their taxes are so heavy, they need some extra cash flow because, you know, they got daycare costs or whatever is coming through college expenses. We need to open up some cash flow so we start shifting over to the pre tax bucket if we can. So it just gives you some of that flexibility in the future to then switch over to pre tax so that you're still saving but you get a little bit more cash flow opened up with reduced taxes.

[Joe]

Yeah, the Roth IRA is such a horrible name. I actually like the way the Canadians do it here with tax free savings account. If it said tax free 401k, that'd be. That'd be so much better. Would love that. Kyle, thank you so much for the question. Love to hear what you decided. By the way, I would love to also hear Shane from you if you want to call back and tell us how you handled the 401k, what you did. We love hearing success stories from people as they solve these questions that they have. All right, we're going to take a quick break right now because Doug is like, hey, when's it my turn? So we're going to give Doug the turn right now in the driver's seat. And I go to him right as he fills his mouth with food, which is exactly what we do here. And we'll be back. We've got another question from Kat. Cat wonders about some special accounts for a member of her family, and I can't wait to dive into what she asks. And for all those of you playing our stacko game here for financial action month, Anna's gonna pick a square and she's gonna help you work through that. All right, that's coming up in the second app, but Doug, what do we got, man?

[Doug]

Hey there, stackers. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And you might not have known this, but on this wacky calendar Joe's mom got me, it says it's national lazy day. So I was thinking about having you now hear me out here. Write your own damn trivia question for once. Then Joe's mom told me to remember my manners. So today we'll let you be lazy again. Then I'll do the heavy lifting again. Here's the question. On today's date in American history, President James K. Polk. Yes, there was a president with that name. Signed an act creating the Smithsonian Institution, proving again just how much Americans love free stuff. But here's the bigger question. The Smithsonian sprang from a gift from Englishman James Smithson, a scientist who left his fortune to the United States. How Many times did Smithson visit the USA before leaving his money to us. I'll be back right after I go ask Joe's mom how much she's leaving me and her will after coming down to the basement about 15 times a day. Seriously, some people are ladder climbers. She's like a stair descender.

[Caller]

Foreign

[Joe]

we spend a lot of time making smart financial decisions, but here's one that doesn't get nearly enough attention your water. Think about it. We obsess about the ingredients in our food. We compare investment fees down to the tiniest fraction of a percent. And then a lot of us just assume whatever comes out of the tap. Well, I'm just going to drink it. Here's a surprising statistic. 3 out of 4 US homes a potentially harmful contaminants in their tap water. And even when water looks perfectly clear, it can contain things like chlorine, lead forever, chemicals and even microplastics. When I was in college, I worked for a group that would go out and do water testing and the different things we'd find even in city waters just blew me away back then. And the sad news is, in many cities we haven't had any change to our infrastructure. It's safe enough to pass quality standards, but is it what you really want to drink? This is why I was interested when I learned about Aqua Tru. Aqua Tru is a countertop water purifier that's been tested certified to remove 84 contaminants. It's patented four stage reverse osmosis system goes way beyond standard pitcher and refrigeration filters. The best part? No plumbing, no installation, just cleaner water from a system sits right on your counter. Aquatrue has been featured in Business Insider and Popular Science. Good Housekeeping named it the best countertop water filter. Plus, 98 of customers say their drinking water is cleaner, safer and healthier. Go to aquatrue.com now for 20 off your purifier using promo code stacking. Aquatrue even comes with a 30 day best tasting water guarantee. That's aquatrue.com spelled a Q U A T R U Promo code Stacking in business, there is no room for guesswork. Every shipment matters, every deadline counts. And when you're trying to keep operations running smoothly, the last thing you need is uncertainty. That's why reliability is at the core of USPS ground advantage. From the moment your package is first scanned in, it moves through a secure nationwide network, aiding in a timely and accurate delivery. You get near real time tracking so you can keep up with your shipments and with affordable upfront pricing, there are no hidden fees or surprise surcharges to throw off your cost sheets. It all adds up to predictable deliveries you can depend on, because knowing your logistics are handled lets you focus on everything else your customers, your team, and the future you're building. Visit USPS.com ground advantage to start shipping with confidence. USPS Ground Advantage We Mean Business it's incredible at a small company like Stacking Benjamin's how one one hire makes all the difference in the world. If you're a small business, the right hire can be make or break Hoping the right people see your job posting isn't the best growth strategy. When the pressure's on, you need the right hire. This is a job for Sponsored Jobs Indeed. Sponsored Jobs is a boost whenever you need to find quality talent. When workplace chaos hits and you need the right hire, this is a job for Sponsored Jobs. Hiring Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job post even seen at other sites. Get matched with and higher quality candidates who can drive the results you need. Reach candidates that meet your specific criteria like skills, certifications or locations. Sponsored Jobs Boost your job post on search results so you can reach the people that can help your business thrive. Plus, with Indeed sponsored Jobs, you only pay for results. People are finding quality hires on Indeed right now in the minute I've been talking to you. Listen to this. Companies like yours have made 27 hires on Indeed according to Indeed data worldwide. And Sponsored jobs posted directly on indeed are 95% more likely to report a hire than than non sponsored jobs. So spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results when you need the right person to cut through the chaos. That's a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. And guess what? Our stackers are going to get a $75 sponsored job credit. That's you to help get your job the premium status it deserves@ Indeed.com podcast. Just go to Indeed.com podcast right now and support Stacking Benjamins by saying you heard about Indeed in mom's basement. Indeed.com podcast terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs.

[Doug]

Hey there Stackers. I'm your golden trivia voice and guy who starts every trip to Washington D.C. at the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum because it's just so cool. Joe's Mom's neighbor Doug it was on today's date in history that the Smithsonian came to be donated by James Smithson, an English scientist who left his fortune to the usa. True story. The IRS demands that each of us leave a portion of our fortunes as well every April 15th. Though that might Money doesn't go in a museum. Why not? That's another trivia question right there. For today, we want to know, how many times did Smithson visit the USA before gifting us all his cash? The answer, zero. Which is why I feel comfortable saying yes to this prince in Africa. I don't need to go to Africa to understand that he needs financial help for his friends, which apparently will somehow also make me rich as well. Bonus.

[Joe]

You ever think about that? About just randomly gifting money to some country that you've never visited, some place you never visited?

[Doug]

Podcast host.

[Joe]

You know, that's on your mind all the time, I'm sure.

[Anna]

Yep, definitely.

[Joe]

You know what? Norway. I'm thinking about leaving all the Anna Allen money.

[Anna]

I've been there, though.

[Joe]

Oh, you've been to Norway? Oh, so you couldn't go?

[Anna]

It wouldn't count?

[Joe]

No. All right, well, how about. Have you been to Taiwan? About Taiwan?

[Anna]

No.

[Joe]

Oh, well, there you go. And it's going to leave all her money to Taiwan. You heard it here first.

[Anna]

Well,

[Joe]

today she's like, hold your breath. It's going to happen right now. What we're not going to hold our breath for is the next call, because we know it comes from Kat. Hey, Kat, what's going on?

[Kat]

Hi, guys, this is Kat from Ohio. I sent an email that you addressed on the show back in November of 2024.

[Anna]

At the time, I was excited to

[Kat]

be expecting our second child and completing our family. A lot has happened since then as we found out a few months after our son was born that he has an ultra rare genetic condition that affects neurodevelopment. I think a realistic outcome for him would be a diagnosis of mild intellectual disability, autism, delayed but functional speech, and possibly the ability to work in a structured setting someday. This has presented some financial concerns I did not have previously. By the way, I want to put in a quick plug here that, having grown my HSA over previous years, has been invaluable while paying out of pocket and saving receipts for 30 years. Sounds like a great fund. Using it for its intended purpose has helped to alleviate a lot of stress in a year that has proven to be the hardest of our lives. My real question is fairly broad, however. What can you tell me about special needs trusts and any other relevant accounts? I have a meeting with our lawyer later this month to set up the special needs trust as we already have a revocable trust in place. Anything I should be aware of going into this meeting? Questions to ask. We received a monetary gift from a family member last year equaling 30,000 that we decided to put in a high yield savings account for our son until we understood where best to place the money for him based on his likely future abilities. Our four year old neurotypical daughter already has roughly 7529account. We basically tsunami her savings so we wouldn't need to contribute more in the future. Can I trademark that term? Anyways, we'd like to do something similar for him. Any advice on what to do with it? Thanks for all you do.

[Joe]

Wow, Cat, that is a tsunami. She should be able to trademark that.

[Doug]

Yeah, I'll look into that. I'll look into that. Joe. The other thing I just want to point out before I let Anna and OG dive into this is she is going through an incredibly challenging time. How positive and upbeat does Kat sound? Like I am so impressed with. I want to be. I want to be like in a sinking ship with her because she's going to be like, look, we got this. It's all good. She's amazing. Listen to her voice.

[Joe]

She's doing so many things well. $70,000 in the 529 plan, money in the High Yield Savings Account, the HSA and oh, gee, let's start there. You know, a lot of people go, oh, I can max out the HSA and just use it way, way, way later. But to Kat's point, HSA using it now for its intended purpose can be quite a boon.

[OG]

Yeah. If you don't have anything to use your HSA money on, it's fantastic to save receipts for 30 years and you know, so on and so forth. I absolutely love the fact that when we go to the doctor or whatever, like you just use H. It doesn't like affect your budget. You know what I mean? Like, it's like it could, right? You could have a year where it does affect your budget. But you know, I've talked to on the show before about being able to pay cash instead of running it through the insurance because the E insurance costs a little bit more to do something and the cash price is always markedly less. And having that HSA, you know, cash buffer that, you know, just 200 bucks.

[Anna]

Oh gee. Do you know what girl math is? Yeah, this sounds like girl math. It's free money.

[OG]

Well, it's not free money except for

[Joe]

the fact that we don't call it girl math here. We call it OG math.

[Anna]

OG math equals girl Math.

[OG]

Yeah. I mean, but like to Kat's point, it's like if you've got 50 grand in your HSA and the market's up 10% this year, you know, that's $5,000 of free health care. Plus you're already putting, you know, if you're maxing out the HSA, that's another $8,500 that's going in. So that $8,000 is spent regardless, right? Whether you're going to spend it on healthcare, you're going to save it. Like that's in your budget, right? You're saying, okay, I've got this money set aside for healthcare. So it's like that 8,500 bucks if you're maxing it out. And if, if you have 50 grand and in the market goes up another 5, like you have $13,000 to spend on health care this year before you get into the 50 or you get into your cash flow or you get into, you know, so when you have the ability to save money, friggin save it. Like, this is a lesson that, you know, her story is, you know, is drumming home.

[Caller]

Right?

[OG]

It's like I was able to save money, max out my kids, or not max it out, but like really front load my kids. 529. That's done 70 grand for a four year old. You're good, bro.

[Anna]

Yeah. That's crazy.

[OG]

Yeah, you're good. We're gonna do. We're not gonna have to worry about money no more. I invested in a fruit company and mama said we don't have to worry about money no more. You good?

[Joe]

We're gonna do two things for you, Kat. Number one, we're gonna handle this from a financial planner standpoint first. And then we're also going to ask attorney Tim Cimro about this one as well. But let's dive into this, Anna.

[OG]

Tim's in Ireland. How are you asking Tim?

[Joe]

Magically. We're gonna click our heels together three times. We're not asking him today, I'm saying on our big week coming up where we're gonna do contracts.

[OG]

I see.

[Joe]

So we're gonna talk to him on our annual estate planning.

[OG]

Who decided to invite him back.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Anna]

What if Tim just like popped in?

[Joe]

Wouldn't that be great? From ira, live from Ireland right now. No, not today, but we will answer it today from a financial planning perspective. So there is a lot that she needs to be aware of. Anna.

[Anna]

There is a lot. And as a mom of a kid who also has some medical stuff going on too, we have A good amount of our family has a good amount of experience with navigating this life. And so I understand where you are right now. Like, it is a lot to take in, a lot to process. And one of the biggest things, this is not a question that you had, but something that I would encourage you to start doing if you haven't already, is like talking to the clinic that you're going to be working with who specializes in this and talking to their social worker. They should have a social worker who can help you with a lot of the financial stuff. And these social workers have seen everything. And they know your state specifically, and the state that I'm in has the genetic condition that my child has. It qualifies that condition to children and adults with it get access to Medicaid. So from a financial aspect, all of our medical decisions do not revolve around money. And you know, if we go down this route and get this procedure done or this medication done, like, we don't think about any of that ever. So maybe that's something that you should look into with your baby. And if you guys aren't tied to that state finding. I know a lot of people in our community move to states that have access to, especially where I live. Like, we're really close to state borders. And so people who live in one state might come over to our state just so that they can get access to this, and then their child gets access to these super expensive medications and treatments and all of that kind of stuff. So that's one big thing that I think a lot of people who are first navigating this are starting to figure out is like, what. What kind of financial resources do we have for the actual medical treatments of my kid? So those social workers are really, really great. The other piece of this is, do we want to talk about, like special needs trust and able accounts and all that?

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Joe]

I was thinking maybe we talk able accounts first.

[Anna]

Okay.

[Joe]

Because this is a big thing that I think a lot of people also don't know about, is a resource.

[Anna]

Yeah. So an able account is. You can think of it similarly to a 529, but there's a lot more flexibility in what you can use it for. You can use it for anything that's going to support your child and their development. So if they need housing, if they need, like this could be something that you're saving for now so that when you are older and you want them to start exploring independent living and things like that, they have this financial resource that they can tap into and it shouldn't affect their other government support. So that's the big thing with special needs trusts and able accounts is these accounts are put in place so that if they're getting disability income, if they're getting Medicaid, any sort of government support around them because of their diagnosis. You can put these accounts in place so that the government can't actually look at that and say, oh, you're disqualified because of this account or because of these assets that you have.

[Joe]

Really important to understand how that works and to look into that, because that's a huge relief when people understand able accounts and to be able to use that and put that in place. When you've looked at special needs trust, though, with people, what are some of the considerations she should be talking to her attorney about?

[Anna]

Since you already have a revocable trust in place, now your attorney's gonna be able to tell you exactly what you should be doing. But more than likely you're gonna layer like a special needs trust on top of the existing revocable trust. And then there's two ways that they're gonna basically activate this special needs trust. It might be activated now and it's sitting as an actual trust today, or it might be activated upon you and your spouse's passing so that that child, their proceeds from their inheritance sit into that special needs trust as opposed to sitting in a revocable trust where it's then going to be distributed out to them, where it's going to impact again all of these other government supports. So really the big thing with the special needs trust is having them explain to you like how all of this is going to work. Number one, if your child does not have any sort of government support, they don't have to activate the special needs trust upon your passing. They'll make that decision to say, is this going to be beneficial for them if we utilize this, you don't have to utilize it in that moment. And then what is it protecting them from? So if we do activate this, we put money in here, what are they going to be protected from? From their benefits, like past benefits, future benefits, all of that. How is this going to protect them in that moment? So it's really just understanding that picture for the child.

[Joe]

I think an important piece just of a trust and I think becomes even more important. Anna is just thinking about the people that are going to be involved if you can't be there. And maybe that changes. Somebody that is great with one child may not be great with another child. And having a child with special needs May mean that you change who the custodian of your children would be.

[Kyle]

Mm.

[Anna]

And changing like this also flows into guardianship, too. Like, maybe if you did have two neurotypical children, like, you would pick your sister. But in this situation, there's more complexity and there's more time that's needed and more support. And the other thing I thought about with this question was insurance needs. Calculating insurance needs is a little bit different with you than it would be with another family. So that's another thing to think about. Like, what does this child need in terms of support? And what kind of life do you. And that's going to change as you see how they develop and they grow up. And so it's just kind of like re looking at this picture over and over again as they change and figuring out what. What needs they need.

[Joe]

I think that that's where I would begin is just what do you want to have happen if you're not there? What would you like to make sure happens? And to your point earlier about flexibility, what do I want to make sure doesn't happen? Right.

[Doug]

That's.

[Joe]

That's the other. What do I want to guard against? Kat, thank you so much for the call. I'd love to hear how it goes with the attorney as well. If you would like to call back and tell us how that meeting was. Was it a smooth meeting? Was it a bumpy meeting? Were there things you should have known that you didn't know? Were there questions that you should have asked? I would love to hear about that. Stacky Benjamins.com yell downstairs for any of the people that called in today or anybody if any of you have questions for us. We're going to be doing these a little bit more often in the fall as we've got some juggling going on. It's a great time for us to help you so you can help us make some shows and at the same time, we can answer a lot of your questions this fall.

[OG]

This is Rebecca from Connecticut. Instead of stacking Hamilton's and Jackson's, I'd much rather be stacking Benjamin's.

[Joe]

It is financial action month here. You know, we have financial literacy month. But what is learning worth if you don't put it into action? So here in mom's basement, we're all about action and making sure we do the right things. And if you're not yet playing our Stacko bingo game, head to stackingbenjamins.com stacko and download your bingo game. And let's see if you can fill up Your bingo card with some great actions. And last week og you talked about the subscriptions box. Anna, you've got our stacko board in front of you. Which one we gonna help our stackers do today?

[Anna]

Okay, I'm choosing meal plan and shop with a list. Oh, as a mama who's meal planning every three days it feels like.

[Joe]

Wait a minute, are those two different boxes? I don't have it open. No, I should have it open.

[Anna]

It's number, it's number 22. Meal plan and shop with a list.

[Joe]

Yep, I got it here now. Okay, well let's talk about meal planning. How do you meal plan?

[Anna]

I'm sure like everyone who's listening uses Pinterest or Google just to search different meal ideas. I also have like a list of just basic meals that are super, super easy, like your BLTs. I have another like egg roll in a bowl one that's just so like, you know, it's just those simple ones, you gotta add those in. I also use chat and I have a specific project within chat. You know, in the instructions it says I need to make a dinner in under 30 minutes. Like under 20 minutes. Really? This is what my daughter likes. This is what I like to try to feed her. If you can try to incorporate that into the meals. I don't like raw red onions. Like it has those kinds of things in it, like specific stuff so that when it gives me a recipe, I'm not having to read through it to be like, is this going to include stuff that we don't really eat? It saves me so much time. So that's what I've been doing recently on top of my, you know, Pinterest board or whatever. It makes it so much quicker. And I'm in and out of the store pretty quick.

[Joe]

Ever since we interviewed Brian Suddet, what a year and a half ago, he's Mr. Anti Food Waste. They got down to the point that they saved. They only threw away, I believe a dollar and 85 cents worth of food one year.

[Anna]

Like that's really impressive.

[Joe]

I know they ate everything in the fridge. Cheryl and I are not that militant. But I love meal planning from that standpoint too. Like what's in my fridge that's going to go bad if I don't use it today? And how do I round out that meal to make sure that I don't have much food waste? And, and I'll tell you, the amount of money we spent on groceries has gone down by a full 20% because of the fact that we're just eating everything that's in the fridge.

[Anna]

Yeah. I think the other thing is don't be afraid to try out a grocery store. That might be like a discount one. I grew up going to one grocery store and always did that and everything is expensive there because it's a really nice experience. And my husband encouraged me to go to this other grocery store. You have to put a quarter in to get your cart. You gotta bring your own bag. Yeah, I didn't want to shout them

[Joe]

out, but that's fine.

[Anna]

Free advertising.

[Joe]

We've got an Aldi here. I never went to one. We had one. Doug, when I lived by you in Detroit, we had one there. I never went. I never went. People would call it would tell us about Aldi all the time. I never went. We got one here. I went immediately. That place is awesome.

[Anna]

It's amazing. Not just for the savings, but the time savings. You are in and out of that store in 13 minutes. Like it is so quick you don't have options. So you might need to stop at the other store. But.

[OG]

Well, we were gonna have burger, but I guess we're having pork loin.

[Anna]

You gotta be flexible.

[Kat]

Okay.

[OG]

No carrots, parsnips though. So we're going to go with that.

[Anna]

It's not that bad. It's not that bad.

[Joe]

Hamburger Helper. But it works fine on its own. Clark.

[Anna]

It's just if you need the fire roasted tomatoes, you ain't getting that at Aldi. You know what I mean? But you're going to get.

[Joe]

But it depends. You're. You're rolling the dice on what discounted products they have that week.

[Anna]

But don't be afraid to try it because I did. And for the last couple years we've been going there and it's amazing.

[Joe]

My friend Mike, who knows that from time to time you'll have people over at the Heck. They're the people in our. In our community that have a swimming pool. And as you know, OG as the people with the swimming pool, like, you gotta have people knocking on your door going, hey. And so Mike always has people over with the swimming pool in Texas.

[Doug]

Do you really think OG has a lot of just pop in visitors? Do you think he's giving out that warm vibe? Like, yeah, everybody's welcome. Sure, come on over and hang out

[Joe]

in my pool with that swimming pool of his. If I was his neighbor, I'd be there whether he wanted me or not. Like, I would be knocking on his door constantly. But just a beautiful pool at the OG residence. So anyway, so Mike At Aldi has made a list of wines, Anna. Like the wines that don't suck for $7 at Aldi.

[Anna]

Our Aldi doesn't sell alcohol. I didn't even know that they did that. That's cool.

[Joe]

Not the wines that are good because you're not going to find that at Aldi, but the wines that if you have friends over and it's just a random Friday night, you're out by the pool. Like, how can we make this not break the bank and be a lot of fun?

[Doug]

So they're in Texas. There's no rules there.

[Joe]

No, that's right.

[Anna]

We're much more restricted in the north.

[Joe]

The other thing we started doing, too, and I don't know if you do this, Anna, but spices, like our spice rack. And we'll buy these different spices or different vinegars and stuff. Like, I'll put that into chat. GPT. I'm like, what goes well so I can use this so it doesn't sit and go bad?

[Anna]

Yeah, we do that. I've been doing that with my sauces, too. Like, all of a sudden I have these, like, chicken tikka masala sauces. And I'm like, all right, what do you want me to do with this? Or, like, some Thai sauce? And I'll do the same thing with Chad. I'm like, send a picture and give me a recipe for this.

[Joe]

Oh, gee. You and I talked about this. We did the clean out the freezer challenge just over a year ago. I thought that was going to be like, maybe three weeks. It took us a good two months of cleaning out the freezer, all the different things in the freezer before we went and bought new meats. I was surprised by that. I got to do that one again because that's starting to add up. All right. There. We helped. You filled in another square stackers. How did you do on that one? And if you want to share what squares you're working on, go to our Facebook group the Basement and share stacking benjamin's.com basement is the quick way to get there. Or just put Stacking Benjamin's basement into your Facebook browser and you'll find us. Big thanks to everybody who called in today. Thank you for helping us make today's show and thanks for the great questions. Just nice, diverse questions and showing our stackers doing a lot of cool things. And all over the world, Kyle and his family overseas didn't say where they are, but people listen to the Stack of Benjamin show in 48 different countries. And Kyle and his family's in one of those. If you know somebody that has any of those issues that we talked about today, please pass this on to them. I've got a bunch of books that I need to get off the shelves here. So I don't want you to give us a review in exchange for a book. But if you do give us a review, please write to me and tell me that you reviewed our show and help me get some books off my shelf. Because as people send me books either trying to be on the show or people that, that we've had on as mentors on the show that have sent me books to prep for the show, I'd be happy to help you increase your financial literacy as well for you and in your community. Read the book, pass it around. Just send that to me, Joe. Stackybenjamins.com all right, we're going to turn this over to Doug. Doug, what should be on our list of takeaways after today's show?

[Doug]

Well, Joe, I struggled today a little bit. I was kind of down after today. Listening through today's episode of Questions, I struggled to come up with the top three things because it just. I mean, yeah, the questions that our listeners asked were good questions, but it was the way they asked him. I didn't love Joe.

[Joe]

Why is that, Doug?

[Doug]

Because every single one of them said, hey, Joe and Og and not a single one of them said, hey, Joe, OG and Doug. Or my question is for Doug. Doug mentioned anywhere. Like, I'm just not even here, so why should I even give, like, the top three things we talked about, they

[Joe]

didn't say Anna either. Also a crime, by the way, thanks to Anna. Before we say goodbye, thank you so much, Anna, for hanging out with us today again.

[Anna]

Yeah, I'm happy to be here. It's okay. If they don't give me any recognition. I get it.

[Doug]

Would it kill him to say Joe and Anna and Doug and maybe og. Would that be so hard? Little love for Anna and Doug? A little bit.

[Anna]

Doug, you need to take a walk, take a laugh. Wow. Yeah.

[Joe]

Would you like Anna to read the what should we have done today?

[Doug]

Let's see what Anna's got for the top three things we should have learned today.

[Anna]

That's not my job.

[Doug]

She just gets to speak off the top of her head. All that knowledge she's got shoved in there. All right, here we go. Well, Joe, first take some advice from our answers today to your questions that never mentioned Anna or Doug. That 401k at work. Maybe there are advantages just to using the workplace plan. And more good news, there's little need to get fancy about how you use it. Second, special needs. Yeah, those deserve special treatment. Look into special needs, trusts and able accounts early as cat is and you'll soonami your way toward better Benjamin stacking and preservation. But the big lesson, don't propose to Joe's mom that you start your own Dougsonian first. I don't think laughing should have been on the card of acceptable answers mom. And B, she apparently won't be investing in the infrastructure required anytime soon according to her strongly worded certified letter she sent me. First off. Sure, Kat, I'll grant you that trademark on Tsunami Savings. And yes, I have the authority. You can pay me the $50 filing fee on your way out. Thanks to Shane, Kyle and Kat and everyone else for submitting questions. Want to help us create a future show? Head to stackingbenjamins.com, yell downstairs and leave your own question for the show. We'll be happy to help and you'll help us make a show. There's a win win. And thanks to Anna Allum for hanging out with us today to answer your questions. Wanna learn more about Anna and and OG? They're taking clients. Head to stackingbenjamins.com OG for their calendar. This show is the property of SB Podcast LLC, Copyright 2026 and is created by Josal Sehai. You'll find out about our awesome [e-mail] along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello and oh yeah, before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don't take advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And we'll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin show.

[Tammy]

From Geico Subconscious News, I'm Tammy. Racing thoughts broadcasting from your brain. Tonight's top worry, if something happens to your apartment and you need to like stay in a hotel and pay for it. That would be crazy, right? Art Palpitations has more.

[Joe]

That would be crazy, Tammy. But you got surprisingly affordable renters insurance through Geico so it could be covered, giving you peace of mind.

[Tammy]

Aw, I love a story that ends well.

[Joe]

Next up, love stories. Are they all they're cracked up to be?

[Tammy]

It feels good to worry less. It feels good to Geico when she

[Joe]

said I don't dance now I make money moves. That was a mission statement for a whole new generation.

[Tammy]

Respect. But that's not the Mount Rushmore. Listen, Cash rules everything around me. When that line dropped, it changed the whole hustle. The greatest tracks are never finished. They're just debated forever. Introducing the Sprite living track list. 50 tracks that shape the culture from six decades of hip hop. Scan the QR code on a Sprite or Sprite zero Sugar to see the full breakdown. Obey your thirst, Sprite.