The Fire Safety Steps You're Skipping (Plus: What the World Worries About in Retirement) SB1774

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Stacking Benjamins Show

Episode: The Fire Safety Steps You're Skipping (Plus: What the World Worries About in Retirement) SB1774
Date: December 15, 2025
Host: Joe Saul-Sehy, OG, and Neighbor Doug
Guest: Steve Kerber, VP and Executive Director, FSRI (Fire Safety Research Institute, part of Underwriters Laboratories)

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Episode Overview

This lighthearted yet informative episode centers on two main themes: critical but often-overlooked fire safety steps for homeowners—especially during the holidays—and new insights into what people worldwide worry about most regarding retirement, based on T. Rowe Price's latest global study. Steve Kerber returns to share urgent fire prevention tips, often linking safety measures to smart financial behavior (like maximizing insurance effectiveness). The hosts also break down global retirement anxieties, interspersed with their trademark humor, audience-driven trivia, and curiosity-driven “TikTok Minute.”

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Key Segments & Insights

1. Why Fire Risk Goes Up During the Holidays

[08:53–13:56]

• People Spend More Time at Home: Holiday gatherings and celebrations increase in-home risk.
• Cooking Spikes: More cooking means more chances for unattended stoves and accidents, especially if alcohol is involved.
• Heating & Decorations: Space heaters, unchecked fireplaces, and aging holiday lights/candles all heighten risks.
• Material Risks: Older, frayed electrical items are often reused, further compounding danger.

Quote:
“People spend more time at home, so there's more opportunities to have people do things that aren't the most intelligent in the world.” – Steve Kerber [09:11]

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2. Hidden Financial Costs of House Fires & Underinsurance

[10:20–13:56]

• Underinsured Homeowners: Many never update their policies’ replacement values to reflect rising rebuild costs.
• Complacency & Indifference: After paying off the mortgage, some homeowners let insurance lapse altogether, risking generational wealth.
• Real Disaster Examples: Recent analyses of the Lahaina fire (Maui) and Palisades fires found underinsurance to be a primary hardship multiplier.

Quote:
“It could wipe out generational wealth.” – Steve Kerber [12:52]

Action Points:

• Review your homeowner’s insurance policy and make sure it reflects today’s replacement value, not an old figure.
• Don’t assume you’re adequately covered simply because you bought a policy years ago.

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3. Fire Causes: What Really Gets People?

[14:05–15:26]

• Cooking Is #1: While not all kitchen fires get reported (many are handled thanks to smoke alarms), the data shows cooking as the leading cause.
• Modern Smoke Alarms Are Crucial: Early detection makes it possible for most home fires to be self-contained before they’re disastrous.

Quote:
“Cooking is a big one... Most people that didn't have smoke alarms was because they had it too close to their stove, it winds up in the drawer... 60% of fire fatalities did not have a working smoke alarm.” – Steve Kerber [15:15–16:30]

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4. How Fast Fire Spreads Today

[16:33–19:51]

• Modern Furnishings: Newer homes filled with synthetics burn much faster (from first ignition to room engulfed: ~3 minutes now vs. 30 minutes in the past).
• Escape Plans: Because time to escape has shrunk, rehearsing fire drills and planning multiple exits is critical.

Quote:
“You have the least amount of time to safely get out of your home if you have a fire today than at any time in the history of the United States.” – Steve Kerber [16:51]

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5. Practical Fire Safety Upgrades

[19:58–23:22]

• Upgrade Smoke Alarms: New UL-listed smoke alarms include better/smarter multiple sensors and last 10 years—check and replace expired units!

• Family Fire Drills: Don’t just rely on school drills; practice at home so everyone (including guests) knows multiple exit routes.

• Closed Doors Matter: “Close before you doze” stops the spread of smoke and heat, increasing survival odds.

Quote:
“We want people sleeping with closed doors, so we call it ‘close before you doze.’ That barrier... buys you valuable time.” – Steve Kerber [21:13]

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6. Lithium-Ion Battery Fire Dangers

[23:24–32:41]

• The New Risk: Rechargeable gadgets, toys, e-bikes, and power tools use powerful batteries—smaller but more dangerous than typical electrical equipment.
• Take CHARGE of Battery Safety:
  • C: Choose certified (e.g., UL listed) products
  • H: Handle devices with care (avoid drops, punctures, extremes)
  • A: Always watch for warning signs (bulging, odors, overheating)
  • R: Recycle batteries properly, never throw them in regular trash
• Traveling: Never put lithium-ion batteries in checked baggage. Always keep power banks or devices in carry-ons so you can respond to issues.

Quote:
“A single E bike battery or scooter battery can fill a room with fire in like 30 seconds.” – Steve Kerber [31:11]

Useful Resource Links:

• closeyourdoor.org (escape plans, closed door facts)
• batteryfiresafety.org (battery safety tips & more)

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7. Notable, Shareable Takeaways

• Smoke alarms expire after 10 years.
• Lithium-ion battery fire risk is new and immense—buy quality & follow safe disposal.
• Holiday increases in cooking/candles aren’t just about fun, but fire triggers.
• Underinsurance can devastate families even after generations of paying off homes.
• Practice fire escape plans at home, not just at school.

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[42:36] – TikTok Minute: The Frugal Airport Buffet Legend

A viral story from social media describes a man in China who bought a refundable first-class plane ticket and used it to access the airport lounge dinner for 300 days in a row. Each day, after dining, he’d reschedule his flight for the next day before ultimately refunding the ticket, never boarding.

• The hosts are both incredulous and amused, debating the logistics and reality of such a scheme but ultimately recognize it as a masterclass in frugality (or “brilliant/air quotes brilliant”).
• This playful segment highlights the creative—and sometimes dubious—strategies people try to get ahead financially.

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8. Headline Segment: Global Retirement Worries

[45:32–59:59]
Based on the T. Rowe Price Global Retirement Survey

Top Retirement Anxieties Across the Globe:

• #1: Inflation (42%)
  Four years ago, inflation wasn’t even on the radar; now it’s the overwhelming global concern.
• Other Top Concerns: Geopolitical issues (30%), Interest rates (27%), Unemployment (20%)
• Generational Shift: Younger savers worry more about the stock market, while older savers pay less attention to daily volatility.

Quote:
“If we had said four years ago that inflation worldwide was going to be the thing people were worried about... (it) wasn’t on the radar.” – Joe Saul-Sehy [46:14]

Retirement Planning Highlights:

• Most people’s primary goal: maintain quality of life and financial peace of mind.
• Only 31% expect to maintain or improve their standard of living in retirement; 17% fear running out of money.
• Workplace is the most common source for retirement advice, but people wish for holistic advisors who can bridge in- and out-of-work needs.

Amusing Observations:

• News and financial media fuel pessimism (“28M people in the path of the storm = 340M enjoying good weather!”).
• Progress in retirement saving is easier to see in retrospect than in real time—don’t obsess daily.

Quote:
“You don't get to see the effects of compounding in real time.” – OG [54:29]

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[65:29] – Key Lessons & Takeaways (Neighbor Doug’s Wrap-Up)

• Upgrade smoke detectors: Get new, multi-sensor alarms to avoid fatal gaps in protection.
• Lithium-ion safety: Buy certified devices, don’t overload outlets, recycle batteries safely.
• Retirement security: Focus on security first; small, consistent choices make a big difference over time.
• Trivia (& Life) Tip: Don’t be OG’s Trivial Pursuit partner—he’ll just go for “leisure” questions!

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Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• "People spend more time at home, so there's more opportunities to have people do things that aren't the most intelligent in the world."
  – Steve Kerber [09:11]
• "It could wipe out generational wealth."
  – Steve Kerber [12:52]
• "Cooking is a big one... 60% of fire fatalities did not have a working smoke alarm."
  – Steve Kerber [15:15–16:30]
• "You have the least amount of time to safely get out of your home if you have a fire today than at any time in the history of the United States."
  – Steve Kerber [16:51]
• "A single E bike battery or scooter battery can fill a room with fire in like 30 seconds."
  – Steve Kerber [31:11]
• "You don't get to see the effects of compounding in real time."
  – OG [54:29]
• "31% expect to maintain or improve their standard of living in retirement — that means 69% do not. But you could also say 69% think they're OK!"
  – Doug [59:25]

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Important Timestamps

• 08:53 – Steve Kerber joins on fire risks & statistics
• 10:20 – The financial disaster of being underinsured
• 14:05 – Why cooking is the top cause of home fires
• 16:51 – Modern home materials fuel fast-spreading fires
• 19:58 – Fire drills, escape plans, and sleeping with doors closed
• 23:24 – Dangers of lithium-ion batteries, what to watch for
• 31:11 – Shocking speed & power of battery fires
• 33:11 – Recommended fire safety resources
• 45:32 – T. Rowe Price global retirement worries (headline segment)
• 54:29 – The behavioral psychology of saving & compounding

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Resources & Action Items

• Check your smoke alarms: Replace those >10 years old with new UL-listed, dual-sensor models.
• Do a home fire drill: Practice multiple exit routes—including with visiting family/friends.
• Buy only UL (or certified) lithium battery devices: Dispose/recycle responsibly.
• Review your homeowner’s insurance replacement values: Don’t assume you’re covered!
• Review & update your retirement goals: Progress can be slow, but keeping records makes a difference.
• Learn more:
  closeyourdoor.org
  batteryfiresafety.org

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Tone & Humor

The hosts maintain a friendly, conversational, and joking tone throughout, making technical advice feel approachable and even fun—true to the podcast’s tagline of “fun and functional.”

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This comprehensive summary covers all key discussions, insights, and notable quotes, with useful timestamps and action points for listeners who want the maximum wisdom with minimum time spent.

Transcript

[NHTSA Public Service Announcer]

Drinking and driving will change your whole world. The next time you're out with friends, consider what would happen if you got pulled over after drinking. Like the legal fees or the time in court or a DUI on your record. Your decision to drink and drive could change someone else's world too, if you hurt or even kill them in a crash. Instead, what if a decision to call a sober ride changed your world for the better? Drive sober or get pulled over. Paid for by NHTSA this message is.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Sponsored by Navy Federal Credit Union is a credit union dedicated to serving all veterans, active duty and their families. We know that during the holiday season, every little bit counts. And that's why for a limited time, you could earn a $250 cash bonus when you spend 2,500 on the cash rewards and cash rewards plus cards in the first 90 days. Now, stackers you know not to get into credit card debt. But if you were going to spend $2,500 anyway, an extra 250 goes a long way. Give joy, get joy. Join now@navy federal.org Navy Federal Credit Union. Our members are the mission. Navy Federal is insured by NCUA. Visit Navy federal.org cashrewards for details. Cash back terms and conditions apply. Offer ends 1 1. 20, 26.

[Joe]

Happy Hanukkah, gentlemen.

[Doug]

Isn't it Chanaka?

[Neighbor Doug]

It's not Honuka.

[Joe]

Eight crazy nights start today.

[Doug]

It's the same thing as like Mackinac or Mackinac, right? Could you just find one way to spell it, please?

[Joe]

I know Mackinac City is spelled differently than Mackinac island, which is only.

[Neighbor Doug]

Yeah, it's only the city. Just everything else is right.

[Joe]

I don't get it.

[Doug]

Everything else is right.

[Joe]

The rest of the world is right, right?

[Neighbor Doug]

I want to know. But Hanukkah, there's eight ways. The reason I think they have eight days to celebrate is because they've got eight different ways to spell that.

[Joe]

It takes you eight days to get through every single one, right? I think that's what the Menorah is for, is the that they have to light a candle for each way they spell Hanukkah.

[Steve Kerber]

Right?

[Joe]

Could be wrong.

[Neighbor Doug]

No.

[Joe]

Let's just raise our glass.

[Neighbor Doug]

Let's stop talking.

[Joe]

Please, God, we gotta stop.

[Doug]

It's Yahweh.

[Neighbor Doug]

So anyway, Navy Federal.

[Joe]

Oh, yeah. Salute our troops. And on this special holiday, let's salute the people that kept us safe all weekend and will keep us safe for the next day. Crazy nights and beyond. Those people that serve our country or the veterans that have served our country. On behalf of men and women serving our troops at Navy Federal Credit union and our veterans and their families. And on behalf of the people making podcast Mom's basement. Big thanks to all of you. Go make some magic now, shall we?

[Neighbor Doug]

Thanks, everybody.

[Doug]

Happy honor.

[Neighbor Doug]

Live from Joe's mom's basement, it's the Stacking Benjamin show. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor Doug. And what's the best homeowners? Insurance. It's the policy you don't use. That's why. Today we welcome fire prevention expert from UL Research Institute's Steve Kerber with this year's homeowners and maybe life saving holiday fire safety tips. From holiday travel to fun at home, Steve's here to mentor you toward a safer holiday season. In our headline segment, researchers at T Rowe Price recently released their global retirement survey. How are we like other savers and how are we different? We've got the results for you. Plus a guy in China who's already a legend in the world of frugal people. And you'd better believe it. I'm standing by with today's fascinating money themed trivia question. And now two guys ready to help you kick off eight crazy nights. It's Joe and. Oh, J.J. juju G.

[Joe]

Hey there, stackers. Happy Monday to you. Happy Hanukkah. If you celebrate saying it that way, we are going to be celebrating good money habits today because we've got a fantastic show. And let's introduce you to this cast of characters. You heard one, my neighbor Doug. And across the card table from me is Mr. OG how are you, man?

[Doug]

What's up?

[Joe]

I am super excited. You know this guy as you, you guys already know. If you're new to this show, you've never heard this episode. Steve Kerber. Every year brings it.

[Neighbor Doug]

I know. And it's funny. When I saw he was coming back.

[Doug]

Want to start a fire?

[Neighbor Doug]

I love this episode but the first year we had him on, I'm like, really? Joe Fire safety. It's such a good episode. This guy's awesome.

[Doug]

So good. Even Doug's voice cracks.

[Neighbor Doug]

Doug, right?

[Joe]

It's so good. Doug gets puberty back. It's awesome. We've got a fantastic episode with Steve. I can't wait today, guys, to share with you the TikTok minute that got sent by stacker Jen. This dude that Jen sent me this information about is a freaking legend. Just, I'm just gonna give it away. He is a legend.

[Doug]

Okay?

[Joe]

Yeah, we'll see.

[Neighbor Doug]

I feel like he's trying to skew our answer to is this brilliant or hashtag brilliant?

[Joe]

I didn't tell you how he's alleged.

[Doug]

The ratio of stuff on TikTok is like or any of social platforms is like 9,000. Whatever the percentage is of 9,999 to 1. That's the ratio of content to good content.

[Joe]

Is it the one or is it the 9999?

[Doug]

Take the bet. It's like you're laying 21. You're not hitting.

[Joe]

We're about to find out about that. T. Rowe Price also went global talking about savers around the world and they sent us the data. We're going to find out how much you're like other savers. So anyway, action packed episode. Sit back, relax, grab your favorite beverage. Grab something to take notes.

[Neighbor Doug]

Action packed.

[Joe]

We are going to hear from the sponsors who make sure we can keep on keeping on. You're not going to pay a dollar for any of this stuff. So we're going to hear from them and then we're going to kick things off with the Vice President and Executive Director from FSRI Institutes. You know, you see those things that say UL listed on all of your devices. This is the institute that does the research for ul. Steve Kerber is going to join us in the basement.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Hey folks, let me tell you that drinking and driving is a decision that will change your whole world. Things will never be the same once you get a DUI because legal fees and time in court are just the beginning. Getting into a crash is another way your world could be irreversibly changed. After drinking and driving, your vehicle may not be the only thing that gets damaged in that crash. You could face a life altering injury or even death. But you're not the only one who could face those consequences. Your decision to drink and drive could permanently change someone else's world, whether you injure them or leave their loved ones grieving. The next time you're out drinking, call a ride, share a taxi, a sober friend, or a designated sober driver. Always plan for a safe ride home. The only decision that will change your world for the better is the decision to call for a sober ride. It's never worth it to drive drunk. Don't risk it. Drive sober or get pulled over. Paid for by NHTSA.

[Joe]

Retirement planning isn't about guesswork anymore. It's about having the right data, control and confidence. Bolden is the modern retirement planning tool built for people who want to plan their future their way. Run your own scenarios, see Advisor Quality insights and make decisions with confidence. Try it free [e-mail] Plan. And I'm super happy he's back in mom's basement with us.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Steve Kerber's back. How are you, man?

[Steve Kerber]

Doing great, Joe. Great to be back.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, you know, holiday fire risk, Steve, as you know better than anybody that.

[Joe]

I know any of my friends, always.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Spikes this time of year. So from your research at ulri, what's the real story behind this season that's uniquely dangerous?

[Steve Kerber]

Yeah. This time of year, a number of things change. People spend more time at home, so there's more opportunities to have people do things that aren't the most intelligent in the world. Cooking certainly picks up. I mean, the amount of holiday gatherings and things like that. People cook a lot more, which means they tend to leave their cooking unattended and go to other rooms and stuff like that and forget it. Or maybe they had a great time, had a few too many beverages and pass out on the sofa and forgot that they were trying to cook themselves something, that they wanted to fry up, some fries or something like that.

[Joe]

Starts off as a good night, ends as a really bad night.

[Steve Kerber]

Exactly. And then you got the heating. I mean, certainly as a lot of the country gets cold, people don't get their. Their heaters checked. People don't check their fireplaces and stuff like that. And then, of course, you've got all the holiday decor, all the candles start coming out, all the Christmas lights without the UL listing, and they get frayed, and they're. They're coming out for the 50th season, and they should have been retired a long time ago. And you get that unfortunate incident.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You know, we always tie this around homeowners insurance. The first year you were on several years ago, Steve, people are like, what does this have to do with money? Well, the best homeowner's insurance is never to use it.

[Joe]

Right.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I mean, if we don't have to.

[Joe]

We don't have to file a claim.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That things are good. But what's the hidden financial cost of a house fire that families never really think about until it's too late?

[Steve Kerber]

We always talk about how you can't put a price on people's lives, and you can't. People have priceless belongings and things like that, But, I mean, it is incredibly difficult to recover from a fire. We've done a lot of work with the insurance industry lately, and a lot of what we see is that people are grossly underinsured. You buy your house, you get an insurance policy, maybe you go ahead and shop it and get a good Price, and you're okay with that, and you kind of ride it forever, and maybe you don't revisit it. But we've seen a huge increase in the cost of materials to rebuild homes. So I would highly encourage people to go back and check their homeowner's policy and look at. Because again, it's replacement value. Right. So as long as that replacement value is what you're insured for, do you know what that replacement value is? Have you had that discussion with your insurance company to make sure that should you have an incident now, that your rate that you locked in 15, 20 years ago, is that still going to cover you if you have a total loss today?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It's funny, we always talk about the price, but we never think about what we get. Which is the reason why we have.

[Joe]

Owner homeowners coverage in the first place.

[Steve Kerber]

Absolutely. And I mean, talking to some of my insurance friends, it's. It's kind of a tough. Like, the margins in that business are so small, and it's become.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It doesn't feel like it, though, Steve, by the way. I mean, everybody listening is like, I'm.

[Joe]

Paying a ton more.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

But the reason is, I mean, the expenses are much higher.

[Steve Kerber]

Yeah, the expenses go up, it changes. And everybody wants to shop it, and everybody wants to be able to click one button and be able to get a dollar amount and move on. Rarely do people take the time and actually look at, what will this cover? Will it replace my contents? What can I build back with? And we do a lot of research where we've examined. I mean, we're leading the. We led the analysis of the Lahaina fire in Maui, that conflagration that took down thousands of homes. And we're currently leading the analysis for the state of California on the Eaton and the Palisades fires. Oh, and a common theme between the two is underinsurance. I mean, all these people that had total losses and even Lahaina. One of the sad things that we saw there was you had multigenerational homes that had been paid off, and because they didn't have a mortgage, they didn't continue their insurance policy. I mean, again, nobody thinks a fire is going to happen to them. And I think that is the biggest challenge here. It's kind of. We call it complacency and indifference. Either you don't think it's going to happen to you, or you just don't think about it at all. The consequences can be incredibly devastating. I mean, it could wipe out generational wealth.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I had a neighbor across the road that did that. They paid off the mortgage and I didn't hear from them. I heard it from the fire chief later, who was a friend of mine. Just a. This fire was so big, Steve, that it was on the fire chief's wall. It was like his picture. And it was horrifying. Just watching the team. Luckily nobody died. But watching the firefighters risking their lives, watching the people crying in front of their house, their house burning down, turns out they didn't have any homeowners anymore because they paid off their mortgage. Back to the the things you mentioned at the beginning of this discussion, though, about the holiday. So we can hopefully eliminate some potential fires you mentioned, like lights, candles, cooking.

[Joe]

You know, we could even throw in.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

There, probably real trees. Is there one? I'm thinking about these like it's a bar graph. Is there one piece of this graph.

[Joe]

That leads them all?

[Steve Kerber]

That's the biggest offender we believe it to be. Cooking the fire data in the US Is not the best, but cooking is a big one. One of the problems is because of modern smoke alarms and stuff like that that people get notified very quickly that there is an incident and hopefully they have time to act. Like if you. You get a small fire on your stove, chances are you're going to hear your smoke alarm go off. You're going to go in there, you're going to put a lid on that pan or you're going to turn the gas off to the stove and yeah, there's a little bit of smoke. You open your windows up, you blow the smoke out and you go on with your life. That fire never gets recorded anywhere. So all we get to see is what the fire departments respond to. And they respond to millions of incidents a year. There's 30,000 fire departments across the United States. But we typically only get the data when something goes pretty bad, when it's beyond your ability to control it. But we know there's millions of other fires that get handled by people that luckily get notified, which is why it's so important to have those smoke alarms, because that is your early warning, hopefully with enough time to act.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

If I'm asking for maybe better smoke alarms from Santa Claus this year, Steve, the gift that keeps giving 100%. Yeah, what am I looking for in a good smoke alarm?

[Steve Kerber]

So this is something that's pretty neat as of. I mean, smoke alarms have been about the same since the 80s. They haven't really changed. There wasn't a lot of technological advancements. Some new ones came out where you could connect them to your Phone with an app so you can be notified on your phone and stuff like that. But as of last year, Underwriters Laboratories UL changed our standard that now requires smoke alarms to have multiple sensors in order to detect a fire. And the. The cool part of that is they do a better job of not going off for nuisance alarms. So you burn the toast, you fry the burger a little bit too hard, the steam from the shower, these things are being made smarter. Because what we were finding is most people that didn't have smoke alarms was because they had it too close to their stove, it winds up in the drawer because they burnt toast, and it never goes back up. What is it? 60% of fire fatalities did not have a working smoke alarm.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

60%, man. That's a big number.

[Steve Kerber]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You've shown too, by the way, you know, looking through some of the research on your website, that the home materials layouts also burn a lot faster now, newer homes than older homes. What should the average family understand about how quickly a fire can spread?

[Steve Kerber]

Yeah, so here's a hard hitter for you. So you have the least amount of time to safely get out of your home if you have a fire today than at any time in the history of the United States.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That's incredible, because it just seems to me with all the technological advances that you just quoted, that we'd have the.

[Joe]

Same thing in building materials, but we have the opposite.

[Steve Kerber]

We have the opposite. So how we build our homes and what we put in our homes. So think about it. When you grow up, you could have a sofa that was actually made of cotton. It would be a little lumpy. It wouldn't be as soft to sit on, but it was made of natural materials. It was made of, like, cotton. It had a cotton cover. We had carpets that were made of wool, and we had, like, coffee tables and end tables and stuff like that that were actually wood versus today, it's all particle board pressed together with glues. And our sofas are polyurethane foam, which is comfortable. It lasts a long time. You can sit on it, it keeps its shape, but it burns like crazy. We've essentially replaced all of the natural materials with synthetic materials in our house that are all made of synthetic materials. And that word synthetic means it was synthesized from crude oil, which means it burns. It has a very high energy release. So should you have a fire, the stuff that's igniting burns a lot faster. So a lot of the comparisons we did of old natural material, you had about, like, 30 minutes from a small flame on your sofa. In your living room. So that room is completely on fire today. That number is like three minutes. Holy. Totally different ballgame. So if you have a fire, you have much less time to get out. That's why we keep educating people on having escape plans, have working smoke alarms we talked about. So if you have three minutes, you want to know when that three minutes is starting as early as possible so that you're on the front end of that three minutes so you can gather the kids, gather the stuff, get outside, call 911. And that's why we want people making escape plans. Because if you think you're going to wake up from a dead sleep as soon as that smoke alarm goes off and you got kids in the house and you're in different parts of the house and that house is filling with smoke, immediately, you've got to know your way out. You've got to know where everybody's going to meet. Everybody needs to have the same plan. Even if you have visitors. I mean, you got people sleeping with you for the holidays. They're maybe not so familiar with your house. How do they get from that basement sleeping area outside and meet you at the front mailbox and stuff like that? How do you get out of mom's basement safely? And what happens if you go up the steps and you get hit with a wall of smoke? What's your second way out? Because you now cut. Your first way got cut off. Do you have a slider out the back and things like that? These are things you don't want to be figuring out in the moment.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Stackers. In the past when Steve's been here, we've during this interview, and we're going to do it again right now, just encourage you to do the same thing.

[Joe]

You did when you were in elementary.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

School and you do fire drills, like the home fire drill stuff, Steve, that people have sent us back after you've been on every year.

[Joe]

Well, it's the reason we love having you back on.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

People are like, it was actually a good time. The family doing it.

[Joe]

Like the kids have done it at school.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

But mom and dad have never done a fire drill at home. And just sitting down and doing it was a good, fun family activity. Better to have the fun family activity than the horrifying one later where, you.

[Joe]

Know, nobody knows what's going on.

[Steve Kerber]

Of course. I mean, forever the fire departments have used kids as ways to get to the adults. I mean, the kids are the lesson. Maybe they're a little impressionable, especially if they've got a firefighter and gear standing in front of them in the elementary school. But us old people think we have it figured out and we take it for granted. We've got other things that we got to worry about. We're way too busy. We can't push the test button on the smoke alarm and see if the kids even know what that sound means. I mean, a lot of kids sleep through alarms. They sleep so soundly that it's going to take the parents to get to them and wake them up. I mean, this brings in the. The other message is we want people sleeping with closed doors, so we call it close before you doze. So if your house is filling up with smoke very quickly, say your living room's on fire and your bedrooms are off your living room or on the second floor, you don't want to wake up with a layer of smoke over your head already. I mean, that's. That's not a good thing. So if that door is closed, that gives you the time to figure out where you're at. Why is this sound going off? What is going on? Get to the door, open that door. See if you have a path to get out. If you can see your way out, then absolutely get out. Get the kids get out. Make sure your kids know if I go to my door and it's full of smoke and I can't see under it to get out, keep the door closed, stay in the room, call 91 1, let them know where you're at. That barrier between you and where the fire is is going to buy you that valuable time for you to either find another way out, which, whatever your plan B is, out the window onto onto a roof or even to the window to call for neighbors and yell for help, or. I know, me as a parent, if I can't get to my kid inside, I mean, I've got a plan to go outside, grab a ladder, and then go to their window. And they know to keep their door closed, because if that door is open, I mean, you're talking thousand degrees. You're talking unsurvivable amount of carbon monoxide. So it's these little things that people don't think of that could be the difference between life and death.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

If we do one upgrade, other than the smoke alarm that you talked about earlier this year, what's another upgrade we should be thinking about?

[Steve Kerber]

Oh, that's a great question. If you've got the smoke alarms and they're meet the new standard, I mean, you mentioned smoke alarms for Christmas. I mean, these new smoke alarms have only been out for a Year, like less than two years.

[Joe]

Okay.

[Steve Kerber]

Smoke alarms expire after 10 years.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That's the thing. When you've said that in the past, Steve, that blew me away. I had no idea that there was an expiration date. And right after you were on, of course, it's just my natural trust but verify, right?

[Steve Kerber]

Yeah.

[Joe]

I leave the interview, I say goodbye to you, I immediately go to my.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Smoke alarm and there it is right.

[Joe]

On the back, like it is right there.

[Steve Kerber]

It's required to be there.

[Harry Fitzgerald]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

We had two smoke alarms that were.

[Steve Kerber]

Expired and immediately not surprised. I mean, most people think they come with the house and they live as long as the house, but it's just like anything else. The sensors in them start to deteriorate over time. I mean, they're made of plastic that's like not always reliable. It's going to stay the same. So get those new UL listed alarms to the 8th edition. Those are the only ones that can be sold now. So if you go to your big box store or Amazon and buy it, as long as it's listed, then you're going to be good to go. You're getting the latest and greatest protection for your family. Other than that, I mean, let's talk about what everybody's going to be buying for the holidays, which is all the tech gadgets and all the power toys and all of that. They've got new batteries in them. These batteries are called lithium ion batteries. Lithium ion batteries are great because they, you can recharge them a million times. They hold their charge, they have a lot of power. But just like anything else, anything that has a lot of power in a, in a small thing creates one heck of a fire hazard. So we're seeing battery fires like we've never seen before over the last couple years. I was actually just on the phone with the head fire marshal of the fire department of New York. Last year, I think they had 18 fire fatalities because of battery fires. This year they're down to one. And I asked them, hey, what's the deal? They spent over a million dollars doing public education messaging telling people not to. It was mostly because of delivery scooters and people with E bikes and scooters that have bigger batteries that were causing these problems and people were putting them by the front doors of their houses and their apartments, which was their way out. So the battery fire got so big so fast that people were getting trapped and not surviving. So we started a new campaign a couple of years back called Take Charge of Battery Safety. And the charge is an acronym. So The C is choose certified products. So you want to make sure that that box or that vice you're buying off of Amazon. If it's too good to be true, price wise, I can tell you it's probably too good to be true.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

So I'm looking specifically that it says UL certified.

[Steve Kerber]

Yep. It'll say you all listed. There'll be a little UL in a circle on the product. There's other testing laboratories as well, but just make sure that it's tested by. It's a nationally recognized testing lab. I mean you'll see they'll use the language listed or certified to safety standards. I mean that's kind of the stuff that our organization does in the background that people don't understand is actually happening behind the scenes. So that's true. Certified products is the most important part. The second one is handle lithium ion battery powered devices with care. These things can't be punctured. They're not made to be dropped and abused mechanically. They're not made to be heated really high and also used in the cold. So you got to be careful with that. The A is always stay alert for warning signs. So if you smell a weird odor or the battery bulges. We will see this a lot with like laptop batteries where it will start pushing its way out of the case of the laptop that needs to go outside. You need to get rid of that. The other is recycle them properly. You can't throw these in the trash. We are seeing huge instances of garbage truck fires and recycling and garbage facility fires because everyone just, they don't know they have these things which they're kind of ubiquitous now. They come with everything from a single cell and a razor all the way up to 100 cells in an E scooter to thousands of cells in a ev. So it's everything in between.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Where do you take them? Where do you dispose of them?

[Steve Kerber]

There's recycling organizations. Call to Recycle is one of them. You should be able to talk to your local waste management or recycling company and they will have a separate stream just for those. We're starting to see boxes pop up in apartment buildings and office buildings that you can take. Tool batteries is a big one. A lot of the major big box stores will have bins where you can take your tool batteries that are no longer functioning properly and dispose of them there and they'll have them recycled. But yeah, this is a whole new thing. I mean it used to be man, our electrical fires could only start if something's plugged into the wall. And now it can go anywhere. So you could have your cell phone catch fire in your pocket sitting on your sofa watching tv. We're seeing it as big issues with airlines. Our sister organization, UL Standards and Engagement, just started a big campaign about traveling with batteries safely. The two big culprits there tend to be the power banks. So everybody traveling with one of those power banks to charge their cell phone or whatever while they're on the go. And the other one's vapes. A lot of poor quality batteries in vapes are catching fire on planes. Our UL Standards and Engagement, they have a program where all of the airlines report to them when they have battery fire incidents. On average, there were two flights a week that had a battery thermal runaway incident happen in 2024.

[Joe]

Wow.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Two flights a week.

[Steve Kerber]

Two flights a week. That's just in the US it's mostly US airlines that are reporting. So, yeah, pretty close to a US Stat. And it's. And it's probably underreported because not all of them are participating in the reporting process. But the big push is all the airlines now typically have messaging when you check in that says, don't put lithium ion batteries in your check baggage.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, they ask you, I mean, I was just checking bags yesterday for a.

[Joe]

Flight, and they, they ask you, is there any battery inside of this?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Is everything powered off?

[Steve Kerber]

Yeah. So you want no batteries whatsoever. Like the battery the device does not have to be on to catch fire. These batteries can become unstable. And you know how they toss baggage around. I mean, you can have a laptop or a power bank that gets hit on something and bursts into fire. Even worse, it goes into thermal runaway while you're in flight. Not good. So the big deal now is, I mean, the same deal, you want to make sure you're buying quality products. You want to keep those big batteries in your site during a flight. So you don't want to put your laptop and your power bank in the overhead bin. You want to put that in your backpack under the seat in front of you. So if something happens, you notice it right away.

[Joe]

You might smell it right now.

[Steve Kerber]

Exactly. You might smell it. You'd see some smoke. And then those flight attendants are getting training of how to deal with that. You don't want that to go unnoticed in the overhead bin. And by the time that people realize something's not right, that fire is huge, you're in trouble. We're not trying to scare the heck out of everybody. We're just trying to get good behavior so that should something happen, the chance of A bad outcome is decreased.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I was going to ask you earlier, I was thinking about like if you had like a 60 second checklist. But guys, it sounds like Steve, checklist is, is very, very quick which is check those smoke alarms number one and then number two, when you're buying new stuff and you're bringing into your house, just check and make sure that it's all certified. Is there anything that, with all this research that you do when we speak every year, Steve, that has surprised you to the point? Any stats you've seen that surprise you so much that has changed your own family's behavior?

[Steve Kerber]

I mean the power of these batteries has been mind blowing. A single E bike battery or scooter battery can fill a room with fire in like 30 seconds. It's just such a huge amount of energy and the batteries keep getting bigger. I mean that's the part that's concerning to me. I mean you can get full blown electric lawnmowers, zero turn lawnmowers and leaf blowers. And these kids toys are starting to come where I mean you and I had a power wheel that one, we had to pedal it ourselves. But even if you were cool enough to have the battery one, it had a nicad battery that like lasted three minutes and you could go two miles an hour. Now these bikes are doing like 50 miles an hour and the kids are going on the Internet and figuring out how to put two batteries together to make it go 100.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, and that's a feature, right? I mean every year the new phone, hey, the battery lasts longer.

[Steve Kerber]

Absolutely. Battery getting bigger. I mean you can imagine. I mean there's, there's a small cell in here. So if this went into the thermal runaway, it's going to throw a decent amount of sparks, it's going to have a small fire, but it's got to light something else on fire. Like if this was on the sofa behind you, you'd be in trouble. But if it was in the middle of the floor or you're outside and you throw it in your driveway, not a big deal. If your kid had a E bike and instead of one cell and a cell phone, it's got 50 cells and you've got it charging right there by that sofa, that room is going. So you got to know how to get out quickly and fast.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, Steve, I love talking to you every year this time of year because I love the idea of a fun, memorable holiday season where people aren't in fear just because they took 30 minutes to listen to you. And me did a very quick inventory of the house and got their stuff together. And then then you spend your time having fun versus thinking about this all the time. If only there were a place people could go to see research on this to maybe help the family learn more about fire safety. I wish that place existed.

[Steve Kerber]

Steve.

[Joe]

Tell me that it does.

[Steve Kerber]

I'm going to I'm going to give it to web addresses. The first one is close your door.org so that's the one that you go to to learn about the speed of fire, making escape plans, the importance of closed doors. And then I'm going to send you to the second one, which is battery fire safety.org where you can learn all the tips and all the things to look for to keep yourself safe as it relates to these lithium ion batteries.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Steve, thanks so much for mentoring us on holiday safety and happy holidays to you and your family, man.

[Steve Kerber]

Likewise. Thanks for having me Joe.

[Doug]

We're looking for the answer and correct spelling.

[Steve Kerber]

Old MacDonald had a what farm E.

[Doug]

I E I O.

[Neighbor Doug]

Hey there stackers. I'm Joe's mom, stick neighbor Doug. And when the weather gets cold, leave it to our friends in Canada to get inventive. While playing scrabble back in 1979, photo editor Chris Haney and reporter Scott Abbott find some missing tiles. Can you find missing tiles? Aren't they missing? Anyway, so what did they do? They went to Tim Hortons, played a little pond hockey and apologized for something nice they did for Total Stranger and then sketched out the preliminary ideas for one of the top board games of all time. Some people play as teams and other play solo. What Benjamin and Borden Stacking game Is it maybe one that this segment even owes a little gratitude for? We'll be back right after I figure out whether I'll categorize this segment of the podcast as arts and literature or science.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

This message is sponsored by Navy Federal Credit Union. As the holiday season rolls around, we know that you strive to do everything you can to bring cheer and joy to your loved ones. And as a credit union dedicated to serving all veterans, active duty and their families, we understand that every little bit counts. That's why for a limited time, you could earn a $250 cash bonus when you spend $2,500 with Navy Federal's Cash Rewards and Cash Rewards plus cards in the first 90 days. Of course, Stackers, this is part of a big financial plan, right? Don't get yourself into debt. Make sure that you are spending and saving with a plan. But you know what? The giving doesn't stop there. You could also earn up to 2% unlimited cash back with these cards, so saving up for whatever the season brings just got a little easier. Give joy, get joy. Join now@navy federal.org Navy Federal Credit Union Our members are the mission. Navy Federal is insured by NCUA. Visit Navy federal.org cashrewards for details. Cash back terms and conditions apply. Offer ends January 1, 2026.

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[NBA on Prime Advertiser]

This episode is brought to you by NBA on Prime this Tuesday at 8:30 Eastern it's the Emirates NBA Cup Championship Game. Game on prime this year's quest for the cup has been building to this the Championship game live from Las Vegas. Not a Prime member. Sign up for a 30 day free trial to get started today. The Emirates NBA Cup Championship Game this Tuesday at 8:30 Eastern only on Prime. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com amazonprime for details.

[Neighbor Doug]

Hey there stackers. I'm pie lover and guy all the way. Always trying to add just one more slice, especially during the holidays. Joe's mom's neighbor Doug we're kicking off the beginning of Hanukkah with a game lots of Stacker families will find themselves playing this year. Even though it was designed way back in 1979, friends Scott Abbott and Chris Haney made millions on their invention of a game about what, of course it was about things that truly were random and scattered. Categories Categories of Facts Trivia the game Trivial Pursuit Retail sales in the USA began in 1983 and within five years the game had racked up $750 million in sales. Of course, now it's a worldwide classic played by people all over. And now the answer to the question, who are the two guys about to rock your world? With an amazing headline segment. It's Joe and og.

[Joe]

I was just thinking, Doug, it's actually been a long time since I played Trivial Pursuit. We used to when you and I would road trip through Canada. Oh yeah, we take trivia pursuit cards and have a blast.

[Neighbor Doug]

Take a box of cards. It's funny you bring that up. I found those in my glove box years after that trip you and I took because they just. It was so much fun. I just left them in there for any future car trip. It's a great way to kill time.

[Steve Kerber]

It.

[Joe]

It totally is. OG when's the last time you played Trivial Pursuit?

[Doug]

Never.

[Neighbor Doug]

I think it was. Wait, let me think. Never.

[Doug]

I do know that we have one at the cottage, and I remember it being very funny to whip the game out. Like, you know, it's rainy, cold, whatever. Let's play. Yeah, let's play Trivial Pursuit. It's like the 1987 edition or something. It's like the current president of the United States. You're like, oh, I know that one. It's like, wrong Ronald Reagan. You're like, wait, what?

[Neighbor Doug]

Ok, what famous baby got caught in a well? Which one? That's happened like nine times since.

[Doug]

How many planets are there? How many states are there that were like, you know, it's like, yeah, the.

[Joe]

Tallest building in Chicago is. Nope, you're wrong. It's the Sears Tower. It's not the Willets, it's.

[Neighbor Doug]

Dude, it's still the Sears Tower. I do not care how many people buy that thing. It's the Sears Tower.

[Joe]

It's so great.

[Doug]

They haven't even burned Chicago down yet when they. Trivial Pursuit.

[Steve Kerber]

That I.

[Doug]

That I had before.

[Joe]

We do our headline today and once again, big thanks to Steve Kerber for just a fantastic amount of knowledge that guy brings every time he comes back to the basement. But let's do our TikTok minute, shall we? TikTok minutes where we shine a light on a TikTok creator who's either doing something brilliant or air quotes brilliant. Oh, gee, you seem to think this one is air quotes brilliant. When I let off this show today by telling you that this dude that Jen sent me is a legend. Just 100 legend.

[Doug]

Yes.

[Joe]

So is he doing something brilliant or air quotes legendary?

[Doug]

I mean, there's never anything good on social. Like, I, I, I, I try to find it. It just doesn't exist. It is just pure idiot.

[Joe]

We found it a few times in this segment.

[Doug]

I don't think so, but.

[Joe]

So this one actually that Jen sent me, it's from da Sim pilot who wrote this and I actually had to read it and screenshot this. This guy in China pulled off a stunt that sounds like it's straight out of a comedy sketch. And this is something that Doug and you said this during your open. Our frugal stackers are just going to love what this guy did. So here's the Story. He buys a refundable first class international ticket. He goes to the airport every day and that ticket allows him to eat at the airport lounge. So he has dinner at the airport lounge two hours before his quote, flight is going to take off. And because it's refundable, when he finishes eating, he moves the flight to the next day. And then the next day he shows up two hours before the flight, he eats dinner at the airport in the airport lounge for free and then changes it to the next day. This guy was able to get away with this 300 times at the Cheyenne International Airport. Spelled xi apostrophe A. I just, I.

[Doug]

Just simply don't believe it.

[Joe]

300 times.

[Doug]

Oh, it was on the Internet. So it has to be true.

[Joe]

Without boarding a single flight.

[Doug]

Don't buy it.

[Joe]

Here's the deal. So he gets done. Somewhere in the 280s, 290s, they finally get onto him because the dude either flies every day or he's just in the lounge the same time every day. And the staff starts giving him a hard time. It's on China Eastern Airlines, which gave him the lounge access each time he'd show the ticket, walk and enjoy the buffet like any first class traveler. Instead of boarding, he just rescheduled the flight for the next day. Repeated the cycle more 300 times. Dining for months without ever taking off. The lounge offered a spread of Chinese and western dishes. Staff eventually grew suspicious, leading to an airline investigation. When confronted, he canceled the ticket for a full refund. Never paid A$8 300 days in a row.

[Doug]

Yeah, I find this really, really, really hard to believe, but you know, if it was on Facebook or TikTok, then absolutely it has to be 100% true. Secondarily, have any of you been to the airport? Like, how is this even a logical idea? Yeah, you know, so you have to go stand in line at security. First of all, you have to drive. I mean, I live as close to the airport as any normal person should and it's still 25 minutes. Do you see the pictures of DFW on, on Thanksgiving? There was. People were. For those of you who don't know, DFW is actually a really great setup of an airport in that there's multiple like separate terminals with a bunch of different security lines at each one. So unlike, let's say Atlanta or Orlando or Seattle where like everybody kind of funnels, they funnel you through security and then they break you out into wherever your gate is. At dfw, you'd start in the section where Your terminal is. And then you, you know, you separate from the gate there and it's all interconnected. So if you, you know, get in line, you're like holy crap, this is ridiculous. I'm never gonna make it. You can. I've had times where I can like literally go back out to my car, drive to another terminal, get in line at that security gate, get on the train on the other side of security and still make it to my gate. Like you know, there's still enough time to do all that. But at DFW there's one road that passes through the middle of it. So you go through a toll booth on either end, north to south or south to north. Anyways, the traffic was so bad people were getting out of their car and walking miles to try to get to the security because there was no. It's just a pure traffic jam. My point is how in the heck is this a reasonable idea for anyone to save frigging $8 on a, on a dinner meal?

[Joe]

I don't know that the Cheyenne airport is set up like that. Like I have.

[Doug]

I certainly have no idea either. But it, but yeah, you know, you have to still go through security.

[Neighbor Doug]

We don't know.

[Doug]

They don't have lounges on the side.

[Joe]

Who knows?

[Neighbor Doug]

No, we don't know if they even have security. Maybe they don't.

[Joe]

Who knows? Jen, thanks. Thanks a ton for sending that.

[Doug]

Stop sending us crap, Jen. Do better.

[Neighbor Doug]

We spend enough time talking about that. Let's talk about it.

[Joe]

If he, if he's able to do it, not pay a bunch of money and he lives right by the airport.

[Doug]

How much are refundable?

[Neighbor Doug]

Well, I was going to say he still fronted 500 bucks or you know, whatever. He fronted a decent amount of money.

[Joe]

Lost interest on it.

[Neighbor Doug]

He refunded it 300 days later.

[Doug]

Yeah, this is an awful idea.

[Joe]

How many. Wow. On TikTok somebody had an awful idea.

[Doug]

Waste of energy just from googling this. Apparently this story has been going on since 2014.

[Joe]

He's been eating there since 2014.

[Doug]

No, the first story of this was in 2014.

[Joe]

That's incredible.

[Doug]

So what an amazing guy. And then the last story was two months ago on Facebook vetting stuff.

[Joe]

What are you talking about? Let's go to something that was vetted.

[Doug]

How about our headline hello darlings. And now it's time for your favorite part of the show. Our stacking Benjamin's headlines.

[Joe]

T row price out with a brand new study where they looked globally at savers around the world. We've got all the Information. What's interesting about this study that was completed last month. These are 7,000 people around the world who turned in the results of this study. Global Retirement Savers, their number one worry around the world right now. Og, what do you think that it is?

[Doug]

I don't know. Inflation.

[Joe]

Inflation, number one. It just strikes me, Og, that, I.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Mean, you answered that very quickly.

[Joe]

It seems very obvious that it's inflation. But if we had said four years ago that inflation worldwide was going to be the thing people were worried about when four years ago, remember, we couldn't get people excited at all about thinking about the fact that prices go up. It wasn't on. I remember. I think there was a fidelity study we talked about four years ago. Didn't he make the top five things that people worried about? Now it's number one with a bullet.

[Neighbor Doug]

I don't know if you'll allow this, Mr. Moderator, but I would like to keep talking about this for a minute because I've wondered about this. Most economists, I think from whatever school of thought they're from, agree that a small amount of inflation is actually good for any economy anywhere. And generally accepted is about 2%. Yes, about 2% is what you're going for. And I think I saw maybe a month ago, let's say, I think we're a trailing 12 months right now is like 2.8. Just under 2.9%.

[Joe]

Yep.

[Neighbor Doug]

Yeah. So why is everybody freaking out?

[Joe]

Oh, because it's the fallout. Because people didn't notice it when it was happening. And now that the money's been spent, I mean, people don't track their budget. So because you don't track your budget, you have this slow slipping that happens every month. And you don't feel it, you don't feel it, you don't feel it until all of a sudden you go, man, I don't have any credit. I don't have any money. What's going on? Then you go, well, the reason is, is now I go, you know, two people go to a restaurant and the bill is easily 60 bucks for two.

[Neighbor Doug]

I thought that was the start of a joke. Two people go to a restaurant.

[Steve Kerber]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Two guys walk into a restaurant and it's $60.

[Joe]

They start screaming. Isn't that hilarious?

[Neighbor Doug]

So funny without drinks.

[Doug]

I mean, it's a little bit like the insurance market in certain areas. You know, for those who don't know, let's take just, you know, homeowners insurance. Joe, you and I live in Texas. Prices of home and insurance is ridiculously high. I think I saw that it was the third highest in the country. Part of the reason for that is natural disasters, right? So Allstate has to go to the insurance commissioner and say, hey, here's our books. Here's what's going on. We just. Big tornado destroyed half the town. We paid it out. We need some more money. We have to raise rates. And then the insurance commissioner goes, eh, we're not sure. We'll think about it. And then the next year, Allstate goes, hey, big flood. We paid it out. We need to raise rates. And so you see these, like, little things that happen, and then finally the premium gets adjusted, right? And so all of a sudden people feel that. And I think that's the same thing that's happening with all other sorts of things. Doug, to your point about, like, how do people not see this? Because, like Joe said, when you just slowly have, like, little changes, you don't really notice it. You know, when your electric bill is $100 and it's 105, and then it's 110, you don't really register that as a change until you see that there was a bill for a hundred at one point. You know, when you're paying 150, you're like, oh, my electric bill is 150? I guess.

[Steve Kerber]

I don't know.

[Doug]

But then somebody goes, yeah, but like, four years ago it was a hundred. You're like, yeah, what the heck, man? Inflation's killing me. It's like, well, only because you noticed it now. But if your income doesn't rise with that, then you use up whatever margin you have, whether that margin is cash or what happens to a lot of people. That margin is credit. And it's like, well, this is the first month I didn't pay off my credit card bill, but that's okay. It's Christmas. And then January comes. It's like, I still didn't pay off my Christmas bill, and I charged a little bit more because it's, like, slowly eating into me. And then when you get to that point, like Joe said, when you get to that point, you go, what is going on? And you finally go, okay, I gotta look at this. I gotta look at this crap, see what's going. What's. What's happening. You go, when did it get to be $60 for two people to go out to dinner? It's like, well, I mean, last week it was 58. The week before that was 56. Week before that was 54. You just didn't pay attention this whole time. That's what happens, that's why it feels like people are. It's top of mind. Even though technically year over year, price change hasn't been that much.

[Joe]

Right now we've got four areas. The t real price looked at first was economic outlook. This is not something I want to spend a lot of time on. Global retirement savers have mixed economic expectations. Half of them expect a recession to begin by mid next year. Among the other half, 41% anticipate growth. Fewer than 1 in 10 are unsure, by the way. Women 2 to 1 more likely to be unsure of where things are headed. Men more likely to predict where they think things are going. Nearly 2/3 of Japanese retirement savers believe there's a recession. Canadians are pessimistic. People in U.S. australia and the UK slightly more optimistic, with less than half bracing for a near term recession.

[Doug]

This is another example of why sometimes, or I should say this is the opposite example of why sometimes not paying attention actually helps you. If you're worried about the stock market, for example, and that's your proxy for the economy and that's your proxy for a recession, and you look at it every single solitary day, you're going to reinforce your own belief system. You're going to see all of the bad news.

[Joe]

Absolutely.

[Doug]

There's never good news. Turn on your local news and just make a little tick mark of like, good story, bad story, good story, bad story and see what the tally is. At the end of the day, they're never like, in other news, eight puppies were born today. And that's awesome. It's like, it's like eight puppies were born in a forest fire and you're like, oh geez, that sucks, you know, or whatever.

[Joe]

So still puppies?

[Doug]

Yeah, but they're still puppies. But at the end of the day everything is going to be skewed toward that downside anyway. So if you're paying attention to it every single day, you're going to reinforce your own belief system of things are going to hell in a handbasket. And you're going to see it because guess what, the stock market does go down on occasion. You're going to reinforce all of the stuff that you're already thinking because the stock market does go down and it goes down, you know, every so often. And so you'll see that and reinforce that and that drives that thing. However, if you just looked at the beginning of January and you look at your portfolio today, you go, pretty good year, pretty good year. All things considered, not awful.

[Joe]

There's always a reason to do the wrong thing. There's always some good reason why you shouldn't do the right thing, which is to keep up with the plan. Keep going with the plan. The things people are worried about. Inflation was the biggest one. 42% geopolitical events, 30% interest rates, 27%. They make a note that 44% of those people worry about interest rates, are also worried about inflation. 20% of which one you want employment.

[Doug]

Interest, not interest. Inflation, not inflation. And you know, no, I just want it to be perfect. I want lots of money in my savings account.

[Harry Fitzgerald]

Right.

[Doug]

Lots of high interest.

[Neighbor Doug]

I just GR to you, when the Fed cut the rate, I'm like, damn, there goes my high yield savings rate. I mean, it's just.

[Doug]

I mean, they're not exactly correlated. But enough to.

[Joe]

Over time.

[Doug]

Yeah, enough to see for sure.

[Joe]

But this is interesting. The stock market was the bottom of things that people were worried about. But younger savers, much more concerned than older savers, which gives me some hope og that around the world, older savers are just, hey, you know what the stock market does, what the stock market does, so I don't need to be as concerned about that. But Gen Z concerned much more than baby boomers or Gen X or statistically.

[Doug]

Most people don't have any money in the market, so they don't care.

[Joe]

The big well, well, these are among people that are investors.

[Doug]

Oh, okay.

[Joe]

Yeah. Savings and investing was the next thing that they looked at, which is that financial objectives around the world much more alike than different. In each of the five countries they studied, more than 90% of retirement savers said that their goal is to maintain an acceptable quality of life and overall have financial peace of mind. However, most people report that their progress toward that in 2025 was modest, that they didn't feel like they actually made any headway toward that. I find that interesting. Oh, gee. Because on a daily basis, I think that reflects all of our lives. That in those early years of saving, you're doing a lot of lifting and you don't feel like you're getting anywhere. And then as you get older, you go, whoa, where did that pile of money come from? It was that daily little tiny lift.

[Doug]

It's an interesting theme that we seem to have come back to, which is paying no attention to it is the best result because you don't get to see the effects of compounding in real time. I mean, in every single solitary thing in your life. This bears true. I was talking to my son, who he's not 48. He's trying to gain weight. When I was explaining to him about, you have to track it and you have to weigh yourself every day. And he's like, I did, and yesterday I lost weight. And so I was describing how I want the chart to go, right? And I was like, yeah, you want the chart to look like this. He's like, but isn't that me losing weight? I'm like, sorry, that's the way that I want my chart to look. Sorry, you want your chart to look like. Like, I have it so ingrained in my brain of like, I track it every day, but I don't evaluate it every day. You know what I mean? Like, I want to see what the trend is doing. And when you're doing your financial goals, it's the same thing. If you look at this every single solitary day, you're not gonna see the progress in real time. I mean, even if it was a day where all the dividends paid out, you know, which is kind of about now for most people in their ETFs and mutual funds, it's about that time of the year where the. Where the last little dividend or capital gain, you know, contribution. Even if you saw that that day and you saw the cash come in, it's still not going to be enough to move the needle in your mind over, like, I made progress right now. But in reality, if your whole plan is based on market, like, returns, you would expect to get, what, 7, 8% a year? Is that what your plan is built on? And this year, the S and P is up some number greater than that. 15, 16.

[Neighbor Doug]

16. Yeah.

[Doug]

But if you look at it on a daily basis, you're going like, I'm just not making any progress. But if you look January to December, you go, oh, it's okay. If you looked January of 2015 till December of 2025, it's. You're a different person. It's a completely different plan. This is the power of keeping your financial planning records. One of my favorite things. I don't know, Joe, if you ever did this, but my. One of my favorite things to do is to, like, literally pull up a plan from 10 years ago. Hold on a second.

[Steve Kerber]

Let's. Let's.

[Doug]

Look at. Let's look at what we were talking about in 2015. What was really important back then? Well, we were really working hard at getting up to 10,000 in your savings account. And they giggle because they have 50,000 and they're bellyaching because they don't have 75.

[Steve Kerber]

Oh.

[Doug]

We were really hoping to get the full 3% in our 401ks that year. And now we're maxing out two 401ks, right? As was doing a hundred a month in my Roth. Now I do two Roth IRAs for a couple. You know what I mean? Like, you see that progress when you look backwards over long periods of time. You do not see it moving forward. And you certainly can't project it in your brain. Every single solitary person that we've ever worked with, when you sit down and you go, okay, you have this much money and you're going to save this much. You have this much time, it's going to grow at this rate. Look, you're going to have $2 million. They go, nah, I don't think your math is right. Hey, you're going to have 5 million. No, no, no, math is wrong. It's like, no, the math is right. We just don't believe. Compounding in our brains, it's impossible to see measure backwards.

[Joe]

When it came to sources of advice. Workplace is the leading source of advice. People get more advice from where to save from their HR department than anyplace else. The company managing workplace retirement plans leads is the most relied upon source. But what people really want is outside advisors who understand their workplace advice. Nearly neck and neck is an outside advisor with advice from the workplace and what people truly want. OG is somebody who is outside, not tied to the workplace if they can get it. But that isn't just helping them with their life outside of work, but they can also handle helping them with the stuff at work. So somebody doing stuff much more holistic. And of course, people looking at retirement planning and goal setting if they can get help with goal setting efficiently and ordering their goals and if they can get help with retirement planning, those are the two biggest things that people are looking at. Finally, they looked at retirement expectations of savers around the world. Retirement optimism pretty low. Only about 31% of respondents expect to maintain or improve their standard of living in retirement, while a full 17% fear running out of money. Workers in the UK were most optimistic, while Japanese and Australian workers most pessimistic concerns about financial security run deep. Just over one fourth of workers feel confident they could weather a major financial shock. You know, it's funny though. Oh gee, we could, we could switch that around. That means 73% of people say that they could walk through a financial shock.

[Doug]

That's funny that you said that. That was my initial thought. When you're like 31%, I was like, but that means that 69% they're okay, yeah. Odd that we both came to the same conclusion on that.

[Neighbor Doug]

Well, and actually that speaks back to your comment about there's no good news. Like, they're designing the headline to make it look like a shockworthy negative thing. And if you flip it around, it's pretty good. 69, 71% of people think they're in decent shape. If you put that headline out there. I'm not clicking on that article.

[Joe]

Yeah, retirement expectations.

[Doug]

Hold on. Talking about headlines for a second. I wish I would have screenshotted this because it was, I mean, it was perfect. It was like literally one headline on Apple News. One headline was like, economists fear global recession in the works or something like that. Some blah. And then literally the next headline from the same company, Financial Times, something layered in Apple News. The next thing was, stocks hit all time highs. Investors optimistic on the future.

[Neighbor Doug]

Oh, my word.

[Doug]

They're like just. We don't know. We're just going to throw stuff out there and see what you guys.

[Neighbor Doug]

They're even doing it to the weather now. 28 million people in the path of this snowstorm.

[Joe]

That's true.

[Neighbor Doug]

Okay, first of all, that means 340 million people have got good weather.

[Doug]

And secondly, that would be, that would.

[Neighbor Doug]

Be the way to put weather. It's always been happening. There's not 28 million people about to die.

[Doug]

70 million in the cold front. Yeah. Would they definitely do that down in Dallas?

[Neighbor Doug]

Like, ridiculous.

[Joe]

It's going to be so cold today.

[Doug]

It's going to be in the 40s, for God's sake. Layers, people, layers.

[Neighbor Doug]

How many times we have to tell you?

[Doug]

I saw this fake talking about the weather real quick. I saw this funny video about teenagers in the weather. And it's like my kid going to school in August in Dallas. And it's like sweatpants, hoodie, you know, sneakers. It's like, dad, I'm fine. And it's like, pulls the hoodie up. My kid going to school in Dallas in December. It's like 28 degrees. Shorts, flip flops, T shirt. Dad, I'm fine. Yeah, that's exactly how kids are. But yeah, yeah, I'm gonna start doing that from now on. I'm gonna take the screenshot of the Weather Channel where it Sundays, you know, 60 million people in. In line of the storm. I'm scribbled out and be like 280 million people enjoying sunny weather.

[Joe]

Retirement expectations also change with age. This doesn't surprise me. Younger workers, of course, more optimistic about their timeline, especially when it comes to their retirement age. 63% of workers age 50 or above expect to retire after 65, compared with just 42% of workers between 18 and 34, suggesting younger generations, of course, that just think they're going to retire early. And that, of course, could be for a number of reasons. It's not just because you have to. You might be in work that you like and you enjoy and you just want to work longer. I think people get much more pragmatic about what their retirement age is as you get closer to that.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Joe]

And if you just, you know, tell somebody who's young, well, yeah, I'll probably retire early. Why not? Lots of stuff, as you can see, packed into this. We will link to this T row price study on our show notes [e-mail] for people that want to really, really dig in because we hit just some of the big highlights of what they talk about. I always like these companies when they come out with these numbers and walking through them like we did today. So thanks, guys. Let's mosey out onto the back porch. Doug, what do you got, man?

[Neighbor Doug]

I have a pretty promising review that I feel like it's important that we talk about here. This review is from Sizzler. Stuffed. Intriguing. Caught my eye. It's titled the nds. I'm like, what the heck's the nds? I've been a longtime listener to the Neighbor Doug shows. I get it.

[Joe]

Yeah, no wonder he wanted to read this one.

[Neighbor Doug]

OG I've been a longtime listener to the Neighbor Doug show, and his trivia has saved my marriage. Every week, my wife and I listen to Doug's Friday trivia, and whichever of us is closest to the number gets to pick dinner. Little does my wife know, but I have been listening to the live version of YouTube, so had the answer weeks in advance. But. But aren't we both the winner with 12 weeks in a row at the Sizzler? Thank you, Doug, and I guess to the lesser extent, Joe, for the key to my happy marriage, me constantly being correct and getting to choose dinner every time.

[Joe]

So, yeah, okay, maybe the dude in China is not as ninja as I may have implied, but this dude.

[Doug]

So good.

[Joe]

Yeah, very, very good. Thanks for that. And by the way, I have had a few of you write me because don't give us a review for a book, but if you do give us a review and send it to me, I always get books sent to me on behalf of the show for research, and I can't keep them. So our intern Debeney has made a nice list of them and I will send you on so that I can keep some sanity in my house and in my marriage, because my house will be just full of books if I don't continue giving them away. So please send those to me as you get them. Coming up on Wednesday, man, do we have a great guest. How about the executive director of a little fun company called Pimco? OG John Studzinski joins us. He's not going to be talking about what you think the head of Pimco would be talking about with us. He's going to talk about his favorite topic, which is doing good in the world. And he has some definite ideas around using your talents to help in your community. And I can't wait to talk to him about this, especially at a time like now when so many people are thinking about charitable giving. How do you do it? Well, John definitely has an opinion and I really can't wait for you to hear it. That's coming up on Wednesday. But coming up right now, Doug, you're going to walk us through what the top things are we should learn from today's episode.

[Neighbor Doug]

Sure will, Joe. Here's what we should have learned today. First, take some advice from Steve Kerber. Upgrade those smoke detectors. It's an inexpensive way to ensure that you'll keep those smoke detectors running and those nuisance alarms away this holiday season. Second, saving for retirement. It's about security first and then finding wealth. So take care of the little things and the big things will take care of themselves. But the big Lesson don't be OG's partner in trivial Pursuit. He'll want just sports and leisure questions on every turn. Emphasis on leisure. Gotta go for the whole pie, og. The whole pie. Thanks to Steve Kerber for joining us. You'll find [e-mail] and we'll have even more resources in our show [e-mail] this show is the property of SB Podcasts, LLC, Copyright 2025, and is created by Joe Saul Sehive. Joe gets help from a few of our neighborhood friends. You'll find out about our awesome [e-mail] along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh yeah.

[Neighbor Doug]

And before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don't take advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I'm Joe's mom's Neighbor Doug. And we'll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin show.

[Steve Kerber]

Foreign.

[Joe]

Stacker Rob posted this today. We were talking earlier, guys, about retirement and this retiree says, I've often been asked, what do you old folks do now that you're retired? Well, I'm fortunate to have a chemical engineering background and one of the things I enjoy most is converting beer, wine and vodka into urine. I do it every day and I really enjoy it. Chemical engineer.

[Steve Kerber]

Got it.

[Joe]

Oh, gee, what's going on with you, man?

[Doug]

Okay, so which one of these two do you guys want? I've got something that makes fun of chatgpt and then I've got something that is a drinking one.

[Neighbor Doug]

Drinking?

[Joe]

Well, we let off with a chemical engineer, so I think we got to stick with the theme.

[Neighbor Doug]

We have to go drinking.

[Doug]

Okay. Saw this the other day and it was basically what happens if you had a post game like sideline interview after going to the bar. You know how they interview the quarterback or whatever.

[Neighbor Doug]

We just got to stay true to our game. We got to do focus on what we do best.

[Doug]

There you go.

[Harry Fitzgerald]

Harry.

[Neighbor Doug]

Amazing session.

[Harry Fitzgerald]

Two early points. Struggled a bit but then finished with 12. How do you do it? Yeah, well, it's that two point mark where most people call it a night, but I focus hard on the third and from there they didn't touch the side. So listen to that crowd. They love you, mate.

[Neighbor Doug]

Seriously, they're the reason I do it.

[Harry Fitzgerald]

I mean, thanks to everyone that came out, stayed the full six hours to stay despite having jobs and families. These are the guys that lifted me up when I needed it most. Let's talk about that for a second though, mate. You struggled a bit across the day. Yeah, round rate was a bit of an issue, you know, but I got a word.

[Doug]

Sorry, Red, mate.

[Harry Fitzgerald]

Even at one stage, Tom stole my seat, so I found a stool closer to the bar. But that's why we're professionals. We can deal with it. Okay? So don't celebrate too hard because you got a big day tomorrow. It's Saturday. How do you prepare? You know, you want the big stage and that is Saturday. I mean, it's a mate from works, Bucks party tomorrow. It's going to be huge. Those guys are completely big. Round of applause for Harry Fitzgerald. Everyone's rooting for you.

[Joe]

Made for the Saturday final.

[Harry Fitzgerald]

Remember, you can watch that live on Channel 10 and ESPN from noon tomorrow. That should stretch into 2am or maybe 3 if there is overtime.

[Steve Kerber]

Hey, Harry, how are you getting home?

[Harry Fitzgerald]

I'm driving, guys.

[Doug]

Oh, boy, and then it says Harry died.