The One Financial Conversation People Avoid (Plus a Discussion about Stress and Money) SB1874

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Stacking Benjamins Show – “The One Financial Conversation People Avoid (Plus a Discussion about Stress and Money)”

Episode SB1874 – July 28, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, hosts Joe Saul-Sehy and Josh “OG” Bannerman dig into a topic many couples and families avoid: the dangers of not being involved in your own financial life. They’re joined by renowned CBS business analyst and “Jill on Money” podcast host Jill Schlesinger to break down why outsourcing financial knowledge (to spouses, advisors—even parents) is risky and how to foster better communication about money. In the second half, Christy Talarico from Brightside Financial Care discusses the toll financial stress takes on individuals and how workplace benefits and targeted support can help people move from crisis to stability.
Theme: Don’t delegate your understanding—be actively engaged in your own financial picture, and learn to leverage the right help at the right time.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “He Handles It” Trap: Outsourcing Financial Knowledge

Main Messages:

• Outsourcing tasks is fine; outsourcing understanding is not.
• “He handles it” or “My spouse/parent/advisor handles it” are the most dangerous words in finance (10:14).
• Both partners (or all adult family members) should understand where accounts are, how bills are paid, and what key passwords and documents exist.

Notable Quotes:

• Jill Schlesinger: “Division of labor does not mean you’re uninterested, uninvolved, and don’t know. That’s where the line is quite clear to me.” (10:30)
• Joe Saul-Sehy: “My job is not to take this from you. My job is if I get hit by a bus, you’re smarter about this stuff tomorrow than you are today.” (12:37)
• Jill Schlesinger: “What is more common is not that like your spouse is stealing from you. What’s more common is something happens to your spouse and you are left at a period of time in your life when you are a complete emotional wreck, not able to make decisions.” (24:36)

Practical Takeaways:

• Both people in a relationship need to know the basics of the household finances.
• Make even the uninvolved party at least familiar with logins, key contacts, account locations, and the family’s financial gameplan.

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2. Generational Financial Conversations & the Role of Advisors

Main Messages:

• Today, young adults often have their finances managed by parents, which isn’t always appropriate.
• Good advisors should specialize in, or at least understand, the financial lives of their specific clients—not just the parents.
• It’s important for young adults to develop their own independent financial relationships.

Notable Quotes:

• Joe Saul-Sehy: “What would bother me is handing it over to a person that just because my parents use them, it doesn’t mean they know anything about me.” (16:26)
• Jill Schlesinger: “You want to have that conversation with your parent there? No way.” (18:19)

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3. How to Get (and Keep) Both Partners Involved

Strategies:

• Avoid the “Camp David summit”—don’t overwhelm the less involved spouse with all the financial details at once (21:17).
• Set up brief, regular “financial check-ins”—quarterly or semi-annual—focused on clarity, not jargon.
• Involve advisors, but let the less involved partner drive the meeting, with the main partner staying quiet to avoid dominance.

Notable Quotes:

• Jill Schlesinger: “If they don’t know a term that you say, use it as [a moment] to explain but not talk down to. That’s what you’re really hoping for.” (22:33)
• Joe Saul-Sehy: “I put a timer on it… I wanted her to go, oh, let’s do that meeting again.” (24:05)

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4. How to Re-Engage If You’re the “Uninvolved Spouse”

Tips:

• Frame your interest as wanting to be a better partner—not that you don’t trust them (27:07).
• Use real-world examples or external prompts (“my friend’s mom died and the estate was a mess”) to open the door to discussion.

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5. Financial Literacy in the Age of TikTok and Quick Fixes

Key Points:

• There’s a lot of bad or oversimplified advice circulating online (e.g., leverage accounts to buy rentals, or “steal breakfast to invest the savings.”)
• Don’t be seduced by deprivation or zero-fun dogma (anti-latte/café “advice” etc.)—the best approach is balance and intentional spending.

Memorable Moment:

• Jill Schlesinger: “Are you living like a miser? I can’t. You know me, I hate the whole fire movement because I’m like, that’s not realistic. That’s not how normal human beings want to live.” (34:41)

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6. Diversity & the Need for More (and Different) Financial Planners

Statistics:

• Only about 23–25% of CFPs are women; less than 10% are people of color (36:17).
• The profession is hampered by a “sales” reputation, when in reality, it's about helping people realize goals.

Notable Quotes:

• Joe Saul-Sehy: “Life is sales. I had to sell you big time on coming on Stacking Benjamins.” (37:56)

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7. The Reality of Financial Stress (Interview with Christy Talarico, Brightside Financial)

Main Messages:

• Nearly 70% of Americans are coping or financially vulnerable.
• Over half of working Americans have less than $500 in emergency savings (51:01).
• Most workplace financial “wellness” programs miss the mark for people in crisis because they’re designed for people who are already stable, not those in acute need.

Where To Start When in Crisis:

• First, focus on the most urgent goal (housing, food, utilities)—not retirement savings.
• Christy Talarico: “Every financial problem comes down to something that needs to be accomplished… sometimes that’s keeping a roof over your head…” (52:44)
• Seek local resources (Findhelp.org, United Way, food banks, etc.), not just workplace programs. If overwhelmed by paperwork, just start—don’t try to “eat the whole elephant” at once (57:11).

The Cascade of Financial Stress:

• Financial insecurity directly impacts mental and physical health (chronic stress, premature heart aging—per Mayo Clinic study, 68:20)
• Financial stress leads to absenteeism, presenteeism, and higher healthcare/utilities costs.

Power of Nonjudgmental, Human Assistance:

• Story of ‘Daisy’—when she reached out to Brightside Financial looking for an $1,800 loan to escape an abusive situation, the assistant instead helped her find resources for immediate housing and ultimately a grant (not a debt) for her apartment. Only after establishing trust did they tackle her larger debt issues (58:52 – 65:58).

AI vs. Real People:

• People need human empathy and connection, not just a chatbot—“an angel on the shoulder helping you make good decisions” (67:00).

Workplace Benefits Need Rethinking:

• Most employee financial wellness offerings are designed for the already stable; more organizations should offer personalized, nonjudgmental help for employees at all levels (71:21).

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Timestamps for Notable Segments

• Division of Labor vs. Outsourcing Understanding: 10:14–13:29
• Financial “Bus Test” and Real-World Consequences: 12:37–14:55
• Getting Spouses Involved (“Camp David” trap): 21:16–24:36
• How to Re-Engage If You’ve Been Uninvolved: 27:07–29:16
• Online Financial Myths and TikTok Takedowns: 32:07–34:41
• Diversity & Becoming a Planner: 36:11–39:59
• Christy Talarico on What to Do When You're in a Financial Crisis: 51:01–57:31
• Daisy’s Story—From Crisis to Stability: 58:52–65:58
• Financial Illness & Physical Health (Mayo Clinic study): 68:20–69:39
• Workplace Benefits That Actually Work: 71:21–73:13

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Memorable Quotes

• Jill Schlesinger (on family finances):
  “Division of labor does not mean you’re uninterested, uninvolved, and don’t know. That’s where the line is quite clear to me.” (10:30)
• Joe Saul-Sehy:
  “My job is not to take this from you. My job is if I get hit by a bus, you’re smarter about this stuff tomorrow than you are today.” (12:37)
• Christy Talarico:
  “Every financial problem comes down to something that needs to be accomplished. Sometimes that’s keeping a roof over your head or feeding yourself and your family.” (52:44)
• Jill Schlesinger (on the FIRE movement):
  “Are you living like a miser? I can’t. You know me, I hate the whole fire movement because I’m like, that’s not realistic. That’s not how normal human beings want to live.” (34:41)
• Christy Talarico (on human support vs. AI):
  “It’s almost like an angel on the shoulder helping you make good decisions… and keeping you motivated with positive reinforcement and an emphasis on the belief that there is a solve to your problem.” (67:00)
• Joe Saul-Sehy:
  “Don’t delegate your understanding. You can absolutely delegate tasks, you can hire experts, you should divide responsibilities. But just make sure that you understand your financial life.” (29:23)

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Actionable Advice & Resources

For Households & Individuals

• Schedule regular, short “financial check-ins” to share (not lecture) and clarify.
• If you’re uninvolved, express your desire to understand—not that you don’t trust.
• Know where all key accounts, documents, and passwords are stored.

For Families in Crisis

• Focus first on urgent needs (housing, food, utilities, not retirement savings).
• Seek out local and employer-sponsored resources—start with “FindHelp” or your Employee Assistance Program (EAP).
• If overwhelmed, focus on solving one problem at a time; don’t freeze due to the big picture.

For Employers & HR Professionals

• Don’t assume your wellness program reaches everyone.
• Encourage real feedback from employees; design benefits and programs that meet people where they are, not where you wish they were.

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Additional Resources

• New podcast from Jill Schlesinger: [Money Moves] (find on your favorite podcast app or YouTube) (41:08)
• Brightside Financial Care: [gobrightside.com] (73:11)
• Stacking Benjamins newsletter for deeper dives: [stackingbenjamins.com/201]

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Final Takeaway

Don’t just hand the financial keys to someone else—be part of the journey. Whether a crisis or just the day-to-day, understanding your own financial picture (even at a high level) is essential to resilience, family harmony, and security.

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For more engaging episodes, insightful conversations, and actionable advice, subscribe to The Stacking Benjamins Show and check the show notes at stackingbenjamins.com.

Transcript

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[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Where's the kaboom?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

There was supposed to be an earth shattering kaboom.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Live from Joe's mom's basement, it's the Stacking Benjamin. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And hold on. Tuesday. Tuesday and sb. Well, go ahead and pinch yourself because that's right. To get you ready for our Financial action month kicking off next week, we're bringing you some awesome special shows. First, you've heard those people who say, oh, my spouse takes care of that. Well, CBS business analyst and host of the Jill on Money podcast joins us to share why that's a and what you can do if you have a friend, spouse or significant other who refuses to learn about money. And then we'll take the most important break of the day for my incredible trivia question. Bonus trivia. And how about yet another guest? Okay, you've got it. In the second half of today's show, how much stress is your money situation causing? If it's a lot, you know what's not making it better? Your workplace benefits and education. One woman is with firm trying to help the world change that. We'll chat with Christy Talarico from Brightside Financial Care. All that on a Tuesday? You betcha. And now here comes a guy who's got the microphone. Hot Joe Salc.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Hey there stackers. Happy Tuesday. How often have you heard me say those words? Welcome to the greatest money show on earth, the Stacky Benjamin Show. We're super happy that you're here. We are happy to be here on a Tuesday. In fact, the guy skipped to the microphones here with me, Mr. OG. How are you man? Skippity doo dah. Fantastico. I love working extra days. Thank you for the overtime pay. Well, the good news is we're actually going to give you Kind of an easy day because you're here to help us introduce stuff. And maybe we can talk about your air conditioning situation later on on your side of the basement. Because it's not good right now. Huh? It wasn't good and then it's good now. Yeah, it's a whole story arc.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It's hard to keep up. Hard to keep up one person. It's also hard to keep up with because she's always doing something new and fun. Jill Schlesinger coming down to the basement. Maybe. Maybe one of my favorite people in personal finance. Well, definitely one of my favorite people. And I will tell you, I've. I've said this myself. The Jill on Money show is the show that goes with me when I'm out walking, when I used to run before, before my ankle injury. Jill on Money, when it comes to personal finance, just loves the way she tackles questions, loves the way Jill thinks, and super happy that she's gonna extend her expertise that she has not only on the Jill and Money show, but also on CBS News.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

She's everywhere.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Here in mom's basement today.

[American Express Platinum Card Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Then, Christy Talarico, you know, OG, when people look at their HR benefits, we miss a huge swath of people. According to recent data that just came out, the data in your benefit says, hey, put more money in your 401k. There's a big portion of the workforce that doesn't have any idea where that money would come from. Like, they're so worried about tomorrow's dinner that they don't know where it's going to come from. So Christy Talarico gonna talk about how we solve that problem. And if you're a stacker and you know somebody who's is struggling, maybe this is the perfect episode for them. Or you've got somebody like Doug that just doesn't want to learn about personal finance. We're gonna talk to Jill about that. We've got a fantastic. I love the look. I just got the look. Oh, gee, did you see that? It was fantastic.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Just over here cruising Facebook, not paying attention, and then you're just taking shots at me.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

People are wondering, why are we doing five episodes this week? It's because Financial literacy month is every April. And you know, that's fine. It's good that you'd learn more. But without doing anything, it doesn't matter. So next month, we're calling Financial Action Month. And to get you rolling on it, you've heard of bingo. Time for you to play Stacko. If you go to stacky benjamin.com stacko you can get your board and over the next month we're going to talk about some easy financial moves you can make to send your personal financial situation skyrocketing. Just what you want to have happen. Stacky benjamin.com stacko to get your bingo board, your Stacko board to have fun with us next month. All right. Speaking of fun, Jill Schlesinger upstairs talking to Mom. We're going to hear from a couple sponsors who help us keep on keeping on. And then we're talking to Jill on money. Jill Schlesinger Coming down to Mom's basement. I just got back from a trip out east and what I love is the days on vacation. A little more relaxed and I find myself reaching into the suitcase for the same comfortable go anywhere pieces again and again. Which is why I keep coming back to Quints. Somebody online recently called our friend Paula Pant and I the Quince Dynamic duo. And I think that's right because they focus on well made essentials that naturally become these everyday staples you actually live in all season long. Their tees are soft enough to live in all day. Lightweight cotton sweaters are exactly what you want when summer nights cool down. Everything at quints is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. And if you ask me why that is, well, it's because they work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. So you're paying for exceptional quality, not brand markup. You've heard me talk about my Quinn's pants. You know what? Absolutely love them. It is true. Like me, make your summer wardrobe easier. Go to quince.comsb for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C e.comsb for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.comsb Back in my early days of financial planning, buying life insurance was so difficult. And frankly, for a lot of people it still is difficult. But the funny thing is, and not funny haha, but just, I guess, ironic. We all know that we need life insurance and we don't want to overpay for it. We want to get on with our life. We want it to protect us. And then we want to do other things. Well, Ethos makes getting life insurance fast and easy. It's 100% online. You get a quote in seconds, you apply in minutes. And get this, you get same day coverage. No medical exam. You just answer a few simple health questions. You can get up to $3 million in coverage. Some policies are as low as $30 a month. As of March 2025, Business Insider named Ethos the number one no medical exam, instant life insurance provider. Ethos has 4.8 out of 5 stars on Trustpilot with over 3,000 reviews. If you're hearing my voice, you know who you are when I tell you you need life insurance. Protect your family with life insurance from Ethos. Now by going to ethos.comsb it is little as 10 minutes, you can get your free quote and up to $3 million in [e-mail] SB you'll then get on with your life, but then you're protected. Stackers. This is Ethan os.comsb ethos.com SB application times and rates may vary. Well, and I'm super happy this woman's back with us. Jill Schlesinger is here.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

How are you?

[Jill Schlesinger]

Well, you can see I'm still in my nicks high. So I just want to point that out to all of your listeners and viewers, whoever, however they access you, that I'm an old Knicks fan who was a fan in the 70s. Yeah, I'm that old. It was a long time coming. So when announcer Mike Breen said, oh, go ahead and cry. We were crying. It was amazing. Anyway, hi, everybody.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That whole town was. Was crazy. Yes, I was there. Unfortunately, I didn't get to see you, but I was there when they made it to the finals, and it was a madhouse then.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Jill, funny. You were here and didn't see me because you were here and you didn't reach out to me. Well, so this is here comes the Jewish guilt. Here it comes.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Let's move. Let's move.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Moving on.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I can only spend so much time around my heroes, you know, it's just your Shiro. All right, let's get into this, because one of my favorite recent pieces that I read came from Kiplinger. Financial planner Tracy Burns wrote this about what she called the most dangerous words she heard from married couples during her years as a financial advisor. And those words were, he handles it. But, Jill, tell me how you really feel. I. I'd actually like to make this bigger. I want to set this up because what worries me isn't husbands or wives. It's any time somebody says they handle it right. My advisor handles it. My spouse handles it. Accounting handles it.

[Jill Schlesinger]

How about my dad? My dad handles it. My mom, my parents. I know. It's like, I think that when you and I were in the business, which was 100 years ago, we ran into this in a very gendered way most of the time. Right. Like it was like, oh, my husband

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

handles this almost always.

[Jill Schlesinger]

It's the 90s. That's what it was. Now I am shocked to find out that so often it's now with my new show with Money Moves, which I'm going to do, the Shameless Plug, obviously that when we are hearing from younger people, a lot of people are talking about how their parents are doing their stuff. So I am one of those people who's like kind of. I think you are too. It's like you get very uncomfortable when somebody has outsourced they a job and you basically just walk away from it. Which is not to say that all of us in committed relationships don't have a division of labor. But division of labor does not mean you're uninterested, uninvolved and don't know. That's where the line is quite clear to me. What about you? What do you think, Joe?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

No. 100%. There's a, there's a story we did recently about a family. You might have seen this in the Wall street journal, Jill, about 17 year old son is their financial advisor, quote unquote. And then we talked about, you know, as a 17 year old, even if they know a ton, do they have enough life experience to truly advise mom and dad? But let's do this. Let's every family. You mentioned this. Every family divides responsibilities. One person cooks, one person schedules vacations, maybe one person pays the bills. What is really wrong with this picture of dividing responsibilities?

[Jill Schlesinger]

I don't have a problem with dividing responsibilities. I have a problem with uninvolved and don't know. So let's drill down on this. Obviously a vacation, no biggie, but let's go to the bill pay example. I pay the bills in my household. I know that's shocking to you, but

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

why you know zero about this stuff.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yeah. So my wife, I sit down with her and I'm like, let me show you exactly the bill paying system that I have developed which is not perfect. You know, like we all get into ruts. But why do I do that? Not because I really think she's going to take over at any time. Although I'm happy to actually have her do it, you know, and have the role reversal. But let's just pretend, I don't know, like I drop dead tomorrow. God forbid. Poo, poo, poo.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Okay, that's funny. I used to call it the bus test. I would tell my clients, I'm like, my job is not to take this from you. My job is if I get hit by a bus, you're smarter about this stuff tomorrow than you are today.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Absolutely. So, okay, let's do your use your bus. Because I used this in my first book when I said my great fear was getting hit by the M57, which comes swinging around the West End Avenue right near the broadcast center. Okay, so you get hit by a bus. Now your partner, your girlfriend, your boyfriend, your husband, your wife has no idea how to pay the bills. I mean, what. That seems insane. And let's take it a step further. Let's say that not only do they not know how to pay the bills, but they have no idea, like, where the money really is. Where are the accounts? Who are the people that they're talking to? Is there an advisor? Where's the estate planning document?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Even something as simple as what are the passwords to get in?

[Jill Schlesinger]

Exactly. Exactly. I mean, oh my. Everyone should have one password. But I don't like that service. One password. There's some way to do it. We all have this crazy list of passwords that's floating around somewhere. But yes, you gotta know where that is. You know, listen, I feel like I have honed this. This is so embarrassing for me to say to you, but like, when my dad died in 20, so we had. My father in law died in 2011, my own father died in 2013. It was like a crash course in how much of a pain in the neck it is to deal with these types of issues after someone dies. And my dad actually gave me the list of passwords, gave me the list of accounts, but there were a few things he like, forgot to put on some, you know, in, in one place or another. And you know, frankly, my mother had no idea. Zero. So it was incumbent upon me to be the. Like, I was trying to kind of write about this, talk about this ad nauseam, because I feel like these are avoidable issues. And I'm sure that you have heard from people, spoken to people. It's like big death is a pain. It really, It's a thing also, it's like dealing with all these companies, dealing with all these things. If you have the passwords and the accounts and you know, and you have a conversation and you, you have a relationship with someone. Joe, like when you were an advisor, even if there was an uninvited, weren't you like bummed when that person didn't show up to a meeting?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I made it mandatory that they had to come.

[Christy Talarico]

Yes.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And I would spend most of my time Talking to the uninvolved spouse.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yes, because you want there to be continuity. You want someone to feel comfortable. And by the way, the number of people who will say to me like oh that's his job, her job. I always say, well it's okay to have that person be the job. But don't you have an opinion? Do you have any voice in this? I think it's. And there's an. I was just at a conference with a bunch of really smart powerful women advisors, CFPs, fiduciaries. And I was talking to them and they were telling me how they have spent so much time scooping up business from other advisors. When the husband dies, the advisor has no relationship with the wife. And then income. The these people who are like, you're the uninvolved spouse and no one's ever talked to you, like to your eye. You didn't have a Joe in your life or a Jill in your life.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Horrifying for everybody, right? Horrifying conversation. Hi, I'm your financial planner. I know where everything is and I don't know you.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Exactly, exactly. Right. So let me ask you another question though. So what is your opinion of the. You know, we know that there is, there is certainly a group of younger people, let's call them under 35, many of whom rely on their parents much longer than our generation did. How do you feel about the parents saying like oh, my advisor will take care of your account here or your account there. What do you think about that?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I think having a continuity, like a family financial relationship with the same person doesn't bother me. What would bother me is handing it over to a person that just because my parents use them, it doesn't mean they know anything about me. If every single person that this advisor works with is my parents age and they don't work with people in my age group dealing with the stuff, you know, I mean I'm a, I'm a 50 something year old dude. My kids are in their early 30s, Jill. They're dealing with completely different stuff than I'm dealing with. And is the advisor equipped to do that like you And I know some fantastic advisors, but the best ones go, you know what, I work with women 50 and older. I work with people who are in their 30s in the tech fields, you know, dealing with stock options. That's what I do all day. I like the continuity, but I want to know more about the advisor and their ability to handle my stuff, not just my parents stuff.

[Jill Schlesinger]

I would almost prefer if you had a firm and I Know, a lot of firms will do this where they have their younger advisors come in and they meet with the children of their clients and develop their own relationship. And I mean, I think it's very nice if the parents, like, I'll pay for that. Like, I will pay for your advisor relationship. But let me push you, like this is part of your job. You want to create financially independent kids. I understand that. Especially if you have a parent who's like, in the business or associated with the business. But you know what? Having your own relationship where you can be completely candid with your advisor in a way that you can't be with your parent. I'm sorry, you cannot be that person. You know what if you have to have that moment where you're like, my God, my parents paid for this amazing education. I have a good job, but I hate it. And now I need to think about something else. You're what? You want to have that conversation with your parent there? No way.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Not in a million years.

[Jill Schlesinger]

No.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

We did a story about this, about parents helping their kids buy a house. If one mother in law was coming along, imagine, oh, gee, on our show said this. Imagine your mother in law weighing in on whether the house is good for you or not.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Dude, I can, cannot believe you said that. This is like one of the things it's like up. Like, it really kind of is amazing to me. There's so many parents who are like, I'm going to help you buy a house. I'm like, they'll come on Jill on Money, like the big show.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And they'll say, I have $250,000 that I want to give my kid to buy a house. I said, does your kid want to buy a house? Well, I haven't asked. Well, okay, this is what you want to do. Look, the whole reason I started Money Moves is that I felt like I could be like a, like a lover, not a fighter. I want to bring generations together. I really do. I really want generational conversations to occur that are positive. I don't want to hear from my co workers that like, oh, these young kids, they're not lazy. They have different value system than you do. And I mean, I basically have said the whole point of Money Moves is to say to a different generation, aunt Jill or Uncle Joe, you can come on the program with me, that we want to be there to help you. That we want to be there to be the person, the people, the kinds of resources that get where you're coming from. I feel like we need to meet people where they are. And the whole point of the programs that we produce is to say to somebody, you are where you are. You're not your parents. You grew up differently. You have a different, like you have a different angle on this. I get it. But there's no judgment in that. It's so much harder to do this when you're the parent. So we have to really give people the power to say like, I need to access information. I need to be able to understand what is important that I. What can I outsource? Where do I have to be involved? Basically, when it comes to your money, you should be involved, at least knowledgeable about all aspects of your financial life and that you should really be part of a process that. And it's not an event, Joe. So many times people will be like, here's the thing. Thing that was sold to me. What should I do?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Right. Yeah. I actually got an email about that this morning. What should I do? I just had a index universal life policy sold to me. Oh boy. And then we're, you know, are we

[Jill Schlesinger]

in a 10 day period? Can we just get out of it? Are we, are we good with that?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That's where we're starting. Right. I want to tackle this from two different angles because the people that listen to shows like yours and like Stacking Benjamin are generally the money geek in the family. Right. Jonesing on this. So let's do this. If you're the money geek in the family and you're the person that handles it, how do you begin to involve the other person? Because what bothered me in these meetings, Jill, and it might have bothered you too, was that often the money geek was so excited that they would create this Camp David freaking summit.

[American Express Platinum Card Advertiser]

Yes.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That the non money wants nothing to do with. Right. They're like, oh my God, please. It's like, you know when your friend loves board games and you don't? Right. They want to have 45 minutes of rules. Because I'm that guy who wants to teach you the board game. But how do you begin to involve the person and not talk down to them and not overwhelm them?

[Jill Schlesinger]

I want to do two things. I want to talk as if you are having a conversation at home versus with the financial advisor. Okay. So you're home and you want to have a. I think it's really smart to be able to say, let's do a quarterly financial meeting. Not when we're having a fight about money, not when some event occurs, but every quarter when we get our retirement account statements. Let's just sit down and make sure we're on the same page. That is a meeting where you explain. Like, by the way. Oh, you know, we had this strange thing happen. The market went up a lot and our accounts, which are on automatic rebalancing, we're just magically put back into our allocation. Oh, what's our allocation? It's this and this. What does that mean? It's this or this.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

What is auto rebalancing?

[Jill Schlesinger]

It's like the best thing since sliced bread is what it really is.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

But I'm saying the person might be so uninvolved, Jill, they might not even know what that means.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And so if they don't know a term that you say, you use this as like. Okay, it is a moment to be able to explain but not talk down to. That's what you're really hoping for, right? Like I want to have a conversation. We want. It's like anything else you want to explain and don't use jargon. And if they don't want to do a quarterly meeting, how about twice a year? Okay, you get to do a meeting on December 1st and on June 1st. And we're just going to have a meeting. We're just going to chit chat about what it is. We're just going to go over everything. Once you get into the situation where you're like, oh, wait a minute, we're going to the advisor, here's my best advice. Shut up, say nothing. Do not make this some soliloquy or sidebar conversation with the advisor. If you would like, you can talk to the advisor ahead of time and say, I just really need you to talk to my uninvolved spouse as if they were the only client. And I'm just going to sit in the background and that's what I'm going to do. And shut up. Yes, shut up.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And I think it's also important, Jill, because when I was an advisor, I had, you know, a time limit on my meeting. I wasn't available forever. What was interesting, by the way, my clients didn't know that I had a timer running. I had a playlist that was the same playlist in every meeting so I could listen to the song that was playing in the background and I knew where we were so I could just focus on you without looking. Without looking at my watch. But the advisor has to have, you know, they have to run a business. So they went so long. But I think. I think doing that at home is important, too. My goal, when I realized, Cheryl, my spouse, wasn't as Involved, as I had hoped and was creating the meeting that you're talking about. I put a timer on it because I wanted to make it so that there was this thirst to have another one. Not that we would run and run and run and run and because, God, I could talk about this and so could you all day. So if I set that timer kind of short, it becomes like a. Your favorite Netflix show where you get done with one. And I wanted her to go, oh, let's do that meeting again. You know, that was pretty fun.

[Jill Schlesinger]

You know what's great? If you treat this as, of course you're gonna continue to be the one who's responsible for it, but that everyone needs to know what the game plan is. So if I'm the third string quarterback, I still have to know what the game plan is. I have to know how to run the plays. I'm probably not gonna get in the game. I might, but I might not. But I have to be able to understand what is my game plan. And you know, listen, I'm sure you've seen all the crazy stories and the books written in Bell Burden about my husband, you know, pilfered all of my money and all this stuff. And that's not common. What is more common is not that like your spouse is stealing from you. What's more common is something happens to your spouse and you are left at a period of time in your life when you are a complete emotional wreck, not able to make decisions. And so having the at least base knowledge of what's going on and what is happening and who are your people, who are your resources, having that team established, I think is so important. You know, Joe, I know that you also hear a ton from do it yourselfers, right?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Sure.

[Jill Schlesinger]

It's like our people, Right. I always say to the do it yourselfer, you're happy doing it now. You're 40 years old. You're 30, 40, 50, maybe even 60 years old. But what happens if you cognitively cannot do it? Will you know, when that time comes? What happens if, if you were to drop dead? Should you have a relationship with a financial advisor who you could just talk to and have your spouse? Especially if there's an age disparity. We've had a couple of like, interesting age differences that have come on the programs and, and you know, it's like, well, get that person, somebody that they can talk to.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And have it ahead of time.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That's fabulous. Knowing at least which levers to pull.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Exactly.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Is so important. I want to take this the other Way. Okay, let's say, and I love this when this happens, and I know you do too. We get the person who's listening to you and I right now because they realize they're not involved and they need to be more involved. And so they're maybe listening to Stacky Benjamin's on the slide, listening to Jill on the slide, whatever. How do you re engage with the money geek? This, you know, happens a lot too. Without saying, I don't trust you. Because if it's you and I, Jill, and you've been handling the money forever, and I go, hey, Jill, what's going on with this thing? Your. Your initial reaction is going to be you no longer trust me. Which isn't the case. No, it's not the case.

[Jill Schlesinger]

I would say, you know, I've been listening to money moves. I've been listening to Stacking Benjamins because I really want to be a better partner to you and I want to really understand what's going on because they raised this amazing issue, which is what happens if your involved partner drops dead? Come through the front door. It's like the same way you talk to aging parents. You want to try to like, worm your way in to figure out what's going on, what's really happening. And the way you talk about it is you say, my friend's mother died and the estate was such a mess and it was so scary. Do you guys have that done? So it's using either a real life example or just saying, I feel like I have not been carrying my weight. I want to be able to at least understand where the relationships are, what you're doing. And I want to be a better spouse to you. I want to. It's like almost saying, like someone says, you've been doing the cooking the whole time. Right. Do you watch the Bear, by the way?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yes. It's so intense.

[Jill Schlesinger]

It's so intense. By the way, I went back to watch Scallop from season four. I encourage you to do that. Okay. There is a point in this show where, like, the master chef who has to do everything, right? I got to do everything. If you guys don't watch, it's awesome. But then you realize if you actually empower someone else to be part of this, it's a richer experience. And so even if you're the spouse who does all the cooking, you could say to your uninvolved spouse, I love cooking. I want you to help me with the meal plan. I want you to help me with this. Or you're going to be the Uninvolved spouse with cooking. You're going to be the cleaner. Fine, great. But like you know that in partnership you share responsibility. So it's so odd to me that people completely just walk, walk away from this part of their lives. So raise your hand, say you want to be a better partner because Jill and Joe, Uncle Joe, Aunt Jill have actually taught you that you can be better. By the way, Joe, what do you think when people are like, oh, I'm just bad at math, I start, oh my God, I'm like adding, subtracting. Do you know how to do that?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And the bad news is it's not about the math.

[Jill Schlesinger]

No. Oh, it's half math and half art.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Yes.

[Jill Schlesinger]

And the art part is way more

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

important and way more fun. Yeah, way, way, way more fun. I think the takeaway today isn't. Let's talk about what it isn't. It isn't never trust anybody. It's. It's never outsource your understanding. You can absolutely delegate tasks, you can hire experts, you should lead on great advisors, you should divide responsibilities. But just make sure that you understand your financial life. You know, Jill, everybody that listens to Stacking Benjamin's. Well, maybe some people don't. Your show, Jill on Money has been, I've said this out loud so many times, my go to place, it's when I've been out on my runs over the years. You've always been with me when I just, I just, I find the way you tackle questions so fun and so interesting. But I'd love it if you do something like we just did instead of like 20 minutes. If you could talk about stuff like this. But maybe instead of me, like if there was a guy named Mark that you could do it with, like I think that would be perfect.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Oh, that's a great idea for a show and we've doing that. It's so exciting just for me. Money Moves with Jill Schlesinger and Mark Tularis here. So you know, by the way, Mark is mortified by all of this and you know Mark, Mark is a behind the scenes kind of guy. But this is my. So for everyone who knows, like I had this other show called Jill on Money and Mark Tularsio is the executive producer of that show. And then behind my back he went and got his certified financial planner designation.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I remember when he was starting that. It feels like yesterday, but this has been a long time.

[American Express Platinum Card Advertiser]

He's had it now.

[Jill Schlesinger]

It's been a while. So now when we launch this new show called Money Moves, it Has been such a joy because I make Mark come on the camera with me. And this is a show that is. It is a YouTube show. You can get it with your RSS feed, of course, you can listen to it wherever you get your podcast. But the whole point of that show that we were like the other show, Jill on Money was like, people who had money were established, they wanted a place to kind of talk this through. And now I really want to focus this new show on the younger people who are either starting out or maybe they're like mid career. And they really want to talk about what's going on in their financial lives, just like they do at stacking Benjamin's. Come on the program with us, talk to us. And then also we have a fun feature. Joe, you'll be so into it. It's called the TikTok takedown where we take a social media clip and we kind of demystify it, we kind of rip it apart and sometimes listen, you know, there are some people who are decent out there, but there are a lot of people who are not licensed, not registered, putting stuff out on social media, whether It's Reels or TikTok. That is nonsense. Can I tell you one of my favorite recent ones? You'll love this.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Tell me yours and I got one for you, Jill.

[Jill Schlesinger]

All right, well, this was one where it was somebody who said, you know, rich people don't pay down their mortgage. So I was like, okay, I'm good with that. What rich people do is they borrow against their investment accounts and they buy rental property. Basically this advice was to margin your investment account and buy 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 rental properties. What could possibly go wrong? Do they ever talk about, like, what happens when the market drops? Do they ever talk about how being a landlord is not the easiest thing in the world? Do they ever talk about anything that has to do with the downside risk? No. So that was something where I was like, wait, what? It was just shocking. Mark wants to try to get some sort of antacid or blood pressure medication, a pharmaceutical company to sponsor it. Cause he blows his mind, mind every time.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It'll be great. Pepto Bismo.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Come on. Pepsid, let's go. I, I want Pepto Bismol, pepsid, Toms, Alka Seltzer.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Come on, it's the perfect opportunity. No, my favorite tick tock clip might be one where a guy said, you know, you can pay for breakfast or you could save that money. And he did the math on how much money you'd save by going in the back door of the local Courtyard by Marriott and stealing breakfast, pretty much walking in and having breakfast on them. And then take the money you would have spent on breakfast and invest that money. So, Jill, just steal your way to success?

[Jill Schlesinger]

Sure, sure. You know, it's. What's funny about that is that particular type of financial personal finance stuff. You know, I hate that, like that whole idea of like, don't drink a latte and you're going to be a millionaire because it's so, it's nonsensical. Right. You have to live your life. I've never been a finger wagger. Like, don't do this. Don't spend your. I think, like, don't do things that are really bad for you. And do be aware of like choosing to spend your money in a very specific way. But we had a question that came up on, on Money Moves where someone's like, should I spend the money to go to the World cup or not? And I'm like, yes, events. You're not going into debt to do it. You're spending some of the money you have in savings and you're going to have do like something fun. You're going to go Taylor Swift, you're going to go see the Knicks play basketball. Like, yeah, go do that. Don't go into debt to do that. Don't deplete your emergency reserve fund. But what is life? Are you living like a miser? I can't. You know me, I hate the whole fire movement because I'm like, that's not realistic. That's not how normal human beings want to live.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. Not a big fan of deprivation.

[Jill Schlesinger]

No, I mean, like, I like fire for the idea of like financial independence.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Sure.

[Jill Schlesinger]

But like, retire early. Like, like, I don't know, your life's going to change quite a bit. Good luck.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, it's just the fact that there's. And we could talk about this all day, but just the fact that my life isn't unicorns and rainbows now, but somehow it is going to be in the future. I think that no matter where you are, you show up, you know.

[American Express Platinum Card Advertiser]

Yes.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yeah. And, and enjoy yourself. I mean, deprivation. That's what I think is funny about, like, when someone talked to me about being a financial planner, they're like, oh, you wouldn't tell me to spend money this way. I said, I never told somebody not to spend money on the thing they want to do.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That's what's surprising about the field. I think about how the good financial planners are like, no, it's just A balance.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Exactly.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You got to do it today.

[Jill Schlesinger]

The thing that a financial planner might do is say that is a big jump in a house for you. Like you live in a $300,000 house and now you're buying a million dollar house. Let's run the numbers to see if that can work. And if you desperately want to do it, even if the numbers don't work, let's figure out the way that we can get you there or as close to there as possible. And that's the beauty of working with a planner. I mean, not that I want to be in the business anymore. I think that being around a bunch of financial planners over the last couple of days has been a really wonderful reminder to me, like, just how valuable that relationship can be when it's a good planner. If it's like a crapo salesperson or a wirehouse person who's just selling you, like I'm going to manage your money but not do planning for you, then yeah, no, I don't think that's the greatest thing in the world.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

World.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And have you seen the numbers too, Jill? We need more women in the field, more people of color in the field.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yeah, that CFP report was bad. That was bad. Dude. It was like the same 23 or 24 or 25% of women the same. Like less than 10% of people of color. It's just. It's bad.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And even listen for old white guys, there's still not enough. I mean, we just need more people in the field. No matter who you are.

[Jill Schlesinger]

I have like a thesis about that. Part of the challenge of the profession is that it requires people to be a salesperson. And so I think that if you're the kind of like number crunchy, do gooder type who would want to be a financial planner, then the idea of like, oh my God, I have to go get business, like that freaks me out. But when you turn it around and say, yes, it is sales, of course, but you are selling something that people need and want. So it's not like you're selling them an indexed universal life insurance product. You're not. And you are trying to help them manage where they want to go in their lives. What a gift that you could bring to someone's life.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. When I realized two things, Jill, I got really good at marketing my business. Number one was that I'm not trying to sell you something that you don't want. So I don't need to shove this down people's throat. If you're not interested in your own Financial security, I can't help you.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

You.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Right, but if you are interested in your financial security and you want somebody to help you go faster then yeah. And when I started presenting myself that way versus hey, come buy stuff from me or come, you know, whatever, like I was intruding on people. I'm just a guy who helps you go faster. If you don't think that you need to go faster, then I'm not for you. And there were plenty of people. All of a sudden I was attractive to people.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Right.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

But also life is sales. I had to sell you big time. On coming on Stacky Benjamins, Jill was like, no, I'm not coming.

[Christy Talarico]

Stop it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I would never go on that show.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Didn't I blurb something for you? Didn't we do something fun? I was, I mean, come on, I love this guy.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Did.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You're in my book. I mean you've done so much brilliant

[Jill Schlesinger]

thing where it's like also, like we are like minded people also because we came from industry. It's a very distinctive way. It's like you came, you understand the industry but you're not like out there selling something. I mean a book here and there. Sure. I think that the misconception about what it is to get financial advice and how you can have that really help you in your life is about like, oh, it's just for rich people. Now I'm not saying that the industry does a great job of managing the process for people who have say less than a half a million dollars. I do think that that's a tough sell. But I am encouraged because I do think that if we can use AI in a smarter way, if we really get good at at that or that is somehow that these big financial service companies or big financial planning firms can somehow have a lower, a different level service. If you have fewer than, if you have less than a certain amount of money than our minimum, you can use our proprietary safe AI modeling where we will have somebody meet with you once a year to review it or twice a year. If there's some way to bring people in who really do need financial guidance in a safe way using AI. I think that could be cool. I really do. I think that could be a game changer in the industry and I hope that there is a development around that. But you're right, we need more planners, we need smarter people, we need empaths to come into the industry. Instead of going to be a shrink, come and be a financial planner. Because you know what? I found the greatest thing in the world is like if you're a voyeur, which basically Joe and I are, and so are shrinks. You love people in financial planning. You get to tell them what to do. When you're a shrink, you have to get them to come to the conclusion

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

and you have to see the inside of everybody's wallet.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Right.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And realize we're all asking the same questions that we think are embarrassing.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Exactly. There was a funny survey out. I think it was like credit karma was like, why do you use AI? And like three quarters of the people are like, I'm too embarrassed to ask these questions.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Wow, that's so sad.

[Jill Schlesinger]

I know.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

But it is great. There are to your point, there's so many opportunities, but opportunity number one, stackers, is if you've got a non involved person in your family, take Jill's advice today and get on it. And then number two is pause the show right here and go subscribe to the new show, Money Moves.

[Jill Schlesinger]

You can subscribe wherever you get your podcast or check us out on YouTube because of course, Joe, this is the funniest thing. The most common feedback that I've gotten from people is, oh, Mark is so much more handsome than I thought.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Mark is that handsome dude.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Well, because he's sort of a curmudgeon gang and he's like, he's in his 40s, but he sounds like an old Italian grandmother. Sometimes he's very cranky. And so people are like, he's in his 40s and he has a full head of hair. Like, that's crazy.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Wait, what?

[Jill Schlesinger]

Yeah. So Money Moves wherever you get your podcast, but importantly, also on YouTube so you can go check out how cute Marcus, he's married.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Sorry, guys, he's not available.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

But.

[Jill Schlesinger]

But unavailable.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

But you can still look.

[Jill Schlesinger]

But I think it's fun because I think his wife's like, really? That's what they think. As only a spouse can tell you. And keeping it real, we'll link to

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

the Money Moves YouTube page, to the podcast page on our show notes stacking benjamin.com in the show notes here. Wherever you're getting your podcast, guys, we're going to throw this over to Doug who's got a very Jill. He's got a very interesting trivia question today. And then the second half of today's episode, Christy Talarico is going to join us. You know, Jill, a great place where I just read this. This survey that shows that so many people do so much better when they go to these workplace lunch and learns where the. And they dive into workplace help. But nobody goes Nobody goes.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Those benefits are all wasted. I mean, it must make a corporate America goes, like, freaks out about it. Use your benefits.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, Christy Tico is going to talk about why those don't work and how to get more out of them. So, Doug, Doug, you've got it, man. Take it from here.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Hey there, Stackers. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and I love Joe and Jill's conversation about why it's okay to delegate your investing. Just don't delegate your understanding. Which also explains why mom no longer lets me handle anything important. I used to say, don't worry, Mom. I got this. Turns out that's exactly what she was worried about. And here, here comes Christy Tallarico joining us to talk about workplace benefits that can make employees happier and less stressed. Let's settle for the basement finally getting dental coverage. Maybe you can talk about that. No, they're shaking their heads. No, can't talk about that. Speaking of understanding how things work, on this day in 1938, one of the most famous car companies in the world was founded. Most of us have heard the name our entire lives, but very few people actually knew what it means. So today's trivia question is this. What does the name Volkswagen literally mean in English? And no Googling on your phone. Mom already confiscated my phone after I tried to expense pizza as continuing education. I'll be back with the answer right after I convince mom that my El Camino is technically a medical expense. Because, you know, emotionally, it supports me.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It's summertime, and you know what that means. I'm going to want comfortable clothing. I'm going to want to make it easy. And that also means I'm coming back to Quince because they focus on well meaning essentials that naturally become those everyday staples you actually live in all summer long. Heck all, any season long. Quince's 100 European linen pants and shirts are breathable, easy to throw on in the summer. Upgrade your rotation needs starting at just $34. Their tees are soft enough to live in all day, and the lightweight cotton sweaters are exactly what you want when summer nights cool down. The prices at Quince are amazing. And I thought to myself, how can any company price things the way Quince does? Well, that's because they work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. So you're paying for exceptional quality and not brand markup. I've loved seeing what all of you have said about Quince. For me, I'm not going to go on about my pants because people told me last time that I talked too much about how awesome my pants are. But I do have to tell you, Cheryl says they're awesome pants. When Cheryl says she likes my pants, that means that I'm going to keep wearing the pants. So if you want the pants, the tea or heck, they even go past clothing. Quince has become a trusted favorite for everything from home to travel, everyday essentials. It's all there make your summer wardrobe easier. Go to quince.comsb for free shipping on your order and 365 day return. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.comsb for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.comsp you already know it Stackers. Once you've learned to pay off your credit cards every single month. At that point then you can go from a cash lifestyle to some of the great point programs out there. But don't do it before. Make sure you pay off your cards in full. And when you do, you may have heard about BILT as a loyalty program that lets you earn points on rent wherever you live. Well, guess what? They just leveled up even more. As of 2026, homeowners can also earn up to one and a quarter times points on their mortgage payments. This is thanks to Built's new three credit cards, the Palladium Card, Obsidian card and Blue Card. All three turn your housing payments, rent or mortgage into flexible rewards so you can choose the card that fits your lifestyle without missing out on points and exclusive benefits. Built Points can be redeemed at top airlines and hotels, Amazon.com purchases, future rent payments, and more. Built points have also been ranked by top publications as the industry's most valuable point currency. Your housing pivot's already your biggest expense. Make it your most rewarding. Find the card that fits your lifestyle and apply today at joinbuilt.comsb that's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T.comsb make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you. Terms and conditions apply subject to approval and eligibility. Built cards are issued by column n, a member FDIC pursuant to license from MasterCard International Incorporated. Well, as you know, there isn't any room for guesswork in business. Every shipment you send out matters. Every deadline counts. When you're trying to keep keep operations going as smoothly as you can, the last thing you need is uncertainty. And that's why reliability is at the core of USPS ground advantage. For the moment Your package gets first scanned in. It moves through a secure nationwide network, adding in a timely and accurate delivery. You get near real time tracking so you can keep up with your shipments with affordable upfront pricing. There's zero hidden fees or surprise surcharges to throw off your cost sheets. It all adds up to predictable deliveries you can depend on because knowing your logistics are handled lets you focus on everything else. Your customers, your team, and the future you're building. Visit USPS.com ground advantage to start shipping with confidence. USPS ground advantage we mean business. We're looking for the answer and correct spelling.

[Christy Talarico]

Old MacDonald had a what farm?

[Jill Schlesinger]

E I E I O.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Hey there, Stackers. I'm automotive historian and guy who still thinks the check engine light is more of a suggestion. Joe's mom's neighbor Doug. Before the break, I asked you what the name Volkswagen literally means in English. I love this question because it's exactly what Jill Schlesinger was talking about earlier. Most of us know the name. Millions of people, people have driven one, but very few people ever stop to ask what it actually means. And that's true with money, too. A lot of us know the names. 401K Roth IRA, HSA, Target Date Fund. But if you don't understand what they are or why they work, it's really easy to hand the steering wheel to somebody else and hope they're driving in the right direction. So whether it's your retirement plan, your benefits package, or even the car parked in your driveway. Driveway. It pays to stay curious. So what's the answer? Volkswagen literally means the people's car. And now back to the people's host and his guest. Here comes Joe and special guest Christy Talarico.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, maybe the bills are piling up. Maybe you're skipping the doctor because of the co pay. Maybe you're laying awake calculating which payment can wait. I've been there. You still go to work, you still answer your emails, and from the outside you look fine. But your body might be telling a different story. Today, we're not beginning with investment returns. We're not talking retirement projections. We're starting the second half of the show here with a more urgent question. When financial stress starts affecting your sleep, your health, your relationships, or your ability to function, what should you actually do next? Christy Talarico works with employers and working families confronting exactly those problems. Christy, so happy you're here. Welcome to mom's basement.

[Christy Talarico]

Thanks, Joe. It's good to be here. And I can definitely relate to that position of laying awake at night thinking about worrying about money always on your mind.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, my goodness. And I'm sure we'll get into your company, what your company does later in the interview, but you talk to people all the time that are facing the same uncertainties. I remember this. This is the mid-90s for me, laying awake and just going, how am I going to even face tomorrow? But before we get to any of that, I just got to ask you a personal question. Having the name Christy Talarico meant nothing like, three months ago. And now, like, everybody in Texas and half the people in the United States are like, is she related? Your name's not even spelled the same as the guy running for the Senate.

[Christy Talarico]

No, it's not. It's not spelled the same. We are not related in any way. But, you know, best of luck to him and his campaign.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

To your cousin. To your new. Your new cousin.

[Christy Talarico]

It's interesting how time evolves, because I used to be asked if I was related to Steven Tyler from Aerosmith, and now I'm getting James instead. So it's interesting.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Is Steven Tyler's real name Telero?

[Christy Talarico]

It is also not spelled the same, but yes.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I did not know that. How about that? That is wild. Yeah, it's funny. So your name goes through boring periods and then through exciting periods.

[Christy Talarico]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

All right, let's get to business here, because we do have people that are listening. We got some stackers, I'm sure, that are in this situation or they know people that are in this situation. One of our stackers feeling completely overwhelmed. Christie. The rent's late, credit cards maxed out, car needs work. The advice they keep hearing at work is, hey, start investing in your 401k. Where should that person begin instead?

[Christy Talarico]

Why is that a thing? Yes, you're absolutely right. What we have found in our research via the Financial Health Network is that almost 70% of Americans are either financially coping or financially vulnerable. And we also know from the same source that 53% of working Americans have less than $500 in emergency savings. And these are people working full time. These are not people who are sitting home in front of the TV like they are doing their jobs and trying to provide for themselves and their families. But what we find in the workplace is that, you know, your 401k and your financial wellness solutions and the AI chatbot that will talk to you on demand for baked questions or the webinars that educate people. There are financial wellness solutions because they're designed for people who are already financially well and they're not utilized by people who need to be met where they are today that need liquidity to get to tomorrow, they're not thinking about 30 years in the future.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. I remember back in my old career as a financial planner, the way I built my business was going into companies, and I would help people set up their 401k stuff. And then because we hadn't solved the root of the problem, Christie, these same people, a month later are borrowing all the money they. They put in.

[Christy Talarico]

Yep, exactly. Borrowing out of their 401k, applying for company hardship programs, wage garnishments, payday loans, you know, predatory loan places. But to answer your question most directly, those people have a much more complicated journey today.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, let's not solve HR first. Let's help our stacker solve their problem. What's the first problem to solve? Clearly, you say it's not putting money in the 401k, is it whichever bill carries the greatest immediate consequence. Is it which one keeps me housed? Is it food? Is it utilities? Like, where do I begin?

[Christy Talarico]

Yeah, I would say if I answered you. Statistically, based on our business, we find that over half of our clients come to us for the first time with housing insecurity. That's the first thing. So I think the answer to your question is the most urgent goal that needs to be met. Because every financial problem comes down to something that needs to be accomplished. And sometimes that's keeping a roof over your head or feeding yourself and your family. And sometimes it's more complicated than that. Sometimes it's making the choice between paying the utility bill or fixing the car so you can keep physically going to work and making that paycheck.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I never got to the point that I had housing insecurity, but I did wonder what I was going to do tomorrow and how I was going to keep the ship afloat the next week. Maybe then people are able to guarantee they have housing for the next week, the next month. But as you know, that only is duct tape. I remember thinking, christy, how do I get ahead of this game so this doesn't happen again? Like, where do I start if I'm trying to get over that hump so that I'm not worried about tomorrow, I can worry about three days from now instead?

[Christy Talarico]

Right. Yeah, this is true. There are a host of resources, and it's one of the things that our company provides is financial care, navigation for people in those situations. So you can look at your employer's benefit ecosystem and see what tie ins there are that can help solve it. A financial problem. For example, when we have people who are escaping domestic violence situations. Part of that benefit ecosystem is an EAP with mental health counseling. Very necessary, of course, for people that

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

don't know what EAP stands for. What is that?

[Christy Talarico]

An EAP is an employee assistance program that many large scale employers have in place that can provide things like legal counseling or mental health counseling.

[American Express Platinum Card Advertiser]

Oh, cool.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Okay.

[Christy Talarico]

And then an additional layer to that, outside of an employer ecosystem sits in what are local resources that are available? Depending on where you live, there could be local government hardship grants that you could be applying for if you need to fix your car, There could be a local trade school that has students learning how to fix cars and therefore deeply discounting the cost of repairs. There could be women's shelters for housing, There could be food banks. There could be United Way chapters. There's a myriad of different things. The problem is someone who is so overwhelmed and has these perpetually raised cortisol levels because they're obsessively worried about money. It's overwhelming. It's a lot. So it comes down to getting them help.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

If people are going to ask for help, I know the first thing that any of these institutions are going to do, sadly, they're going to make you prove it, right, that you need help. So before I ask for help, what do I gather? Do I gather my bills, my pay stubs, my benefit information, my eviction shut off notices? Like, what evidence are people going to ask for that will let me get the help that I need?

[Christy Talarico]

So if you are working with an employer that has our financial care benefit available, the only thing that you need to do is download our app and enter your first and last name and your date of birth and the last four digits of your Social Security number. And that's the only eligibility check that we need to do to ensure that you're an employee of the company that we're working with. So that's very simple. And then once that happens, you're very quickly connected with a financial care assistant and telling them what your problem is. And usually we get greeted with, I need a loan to meet this goal. And we start the conversation there. And what we usually do is put a pause in that and start digging down into what is the root cause of that need and then work on solving it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Right, and we should talk about the name of your company too. It's Brightside Financial. We'll dig into exactly what you guys do, but let's say they don't have access to Brightside. Christie, I know every local institution is going to be a little different, but there's got to be some things that would be best for our average stacker to put in front of whoever these officials are.

[Christy Talarico]

I think an average stacker, if they need to give them self help quickly, can start with a place called Find Help, which is a navigation portal where they can plug in their zip code and a little bit about their need and receive a list of options that is kind of curated to what they're telling them that they need. If it's a financial problem, if it is needing a loan, whatever it is that can help them in the short term. And, you know, I know we'll talk about kind of the employee benefit option in the longer term. In terms of proof, I don't know so much about proof. Right. I think with 70% of the working country being financially vulnerable, this is a very popular conversation. And coming as you are to whatever your resource is, is the first thing that you have to do.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I like that. Just don't worry about all this stuff. Just go get help.

[Christy Talarico]

Just go get help. Yes. Yeah. And navigate one question at a time. I think if people get in their heads, okay, well, I have to bring my utility bill, all of my paperwork around, my lease and all of my id, like it could be too overwhelming too quickly. Go to that first place to go get that first layer of health and then just take it one question at a time. One step at a time.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. Don't try to eat the whole elephant. It's interesting. You said the average person that you guys work with comes and they go, I need a loan. And it's funny because I used to speak to high schoolers a lot. I went into this local high school and I was a resource a few times a year. And they would always. I'd always do Q and A. A And every single question, not every single one. I'd say 99% of questions, Christie, were, how do I get into debt over my head? Like, they didn't ask it that way. But this high school junior goes, how do I get a loan for a truck? How do I get a mortgage? How do I get a credit card? How do I get a. Every question was a form of debt. There were very few questions about saving. And this is how ingrained this is in our culture. Right. I just need a loan. And I remember when I felt that too do. I was like, I don't care how I pay it back. I can't think about how I'm going to pay it back. If I just get access to capital, then I can think for the next six Weeks, and hopefully in the next six weeks, I'll figure out some way to get that done. You said that you often put that on hold, which I think is really cool, because the first place I've seen people go is like a payday loan, a cash advance, a high cost installment loan, a new credit card. Something is going to help you just dig the hole faster, right?

[Christy Talarico]

Yes. You'll be deeper in the hole. How do you put a pause in that?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, what do you do when you pause it? What are you guys doing instead if you're putting a pause?

[Christy Talarico]

Well, can I tell you a quick story?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

No, let's do it.

[Christy Talarico]

All right, so let me tell you a little bit about Daisy. So Daisy was one of our clients, and she reached out to us via the app and she greeted us in the same way that many of our clients greet us. Hey, I need a loan. I need $1,800. That's it. Not, hello, I need an $1,800 loan.

[Jill Schlesinger]

Right.

[Christy Talarico]

So our financial assistant said, okay, you know, first thing understood. I heard you. I hear you that you need $1,800. Positive reinforcement. I think it's great that you're looking for help. And emphasis on, I'm going to help you reach your goal. The practice is called Hope Science. Build a belief in this human being that they're going to get to where they need to go. Do you mind if I ask you a couple of questions? And through a series of leading questions that people with good therapeutic backgrounds can do, teased out that Daisy had fled an abusive relationship, lacked family resources, did not have a place to sleep that night. And that $1,800 was a loan for a security deposit on an apartment so that she can have permanent housing. So the FA that was helping her navigate this situation said, okay, we don't need $1,800 yet. We need a roof over your head. We need food in your belly. Let's start there. And found her again through local hardship resources. Found her a women's shelter. She was able to. She had a bed for several nights, was able to get her meals from a local organization. Okay, now she's fed, she's housed, she's dry, she's clean, she's slept. Now let's concentrate on your new apartment and how do we get you money for that? And it would be very easy to connect her with, you know, here's a loan from a company, like a cashable, and say, okay, now we're done. But instead, this financial assistant helped her navigate her own employer ecosystem and found that her own employer had a hardship program that she could apply for, and she applied for it, got approved, and was given, not loaned, given, $1,800, and she was able to use that free money that she does not have to pay back to get a permanent roof over her head. That's an example.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That's fabulous. And it's wild how one emergency spreads into all of these other issues. And by going right to the root of the problem versus another 1800 bucks and by going into all the existing resources, you're able to come up with a much better solution.

[Christy Talarico]

Solution, exactly.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

This is where generic financial advice, I think, often fails. So much like, how was the person able to identify all these different places where she could get money when other programs aren't able to do that?

[Christy Talarico]

This is a great question. I think part of it is when you're a working American and you work for a large employer that offers financial wellness solutions. Those financial wellness solutions are usually administered by companies who typically are curated for people who are financially healthy. So Fidelity, as an example, might be in charge of your 401k and makes financial advisors available to you for phone calls x many sessions or conversations per year so that you can plan, which is great for somebody who has money. But just like you and I did not learn how to balance a checkbook in school. And everything that you said about the individuals because they don't know what a healthy income to debt ratio looks like, like starts every conversation with, I need the thing. How do I get the thing without a total awareness of the financial hole that it digs a person? Because most of us don't grow up learning what healthy income to debt ratio looks like. So those same CFPs, those same financial advisors, they're used to talking to affluent people who can plan 30 years in the future and therefore lack the advice of someone who has nothing after their bills are paid, there's $5 left in their checking account and they've got 10,000 or more in debt. Debt. They can't help them because you don't want to plan 30 years in the future. You can't contribute to your 401k. You, you're borrowing from your 401k. So those people wind up getting left behind.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I think this is an important point too for our stackers, because I know, meeting people around the country, Christie, that we have such a giving community and people that want to help more people get financially literate. And yet we're used to talking to people about being in the 401k or putting money in a savings account. And there's all these underlying things that the person you're talking to probably will never tell you. They're way too embarrassed to tell you. They're way too emotional about it. They're putting on the best front that they can. And I can say that with a lot of confidence because that was me. I would look you in the eye and everything was a okay. And nothing was okay. Like absolutely nothing was okay.

[Christy Talarico]

Imagine if you were in a place where a conversation with a financial advisor would start with things like let's talk about how many subscriptions you pay a monthly fee for. Are you using all of them? Or, or okay, how much is your monthly grocery bill and what is that made up of and are there ways to save there or what is your air conditioning usage and are you ready? Are you prepared for the spike in your electric bill that's going to come come May and last through likely October, depending on where you live. And those conversations are the basics of managing a monthly budget. But they get passed over because it's centered instead on let's plan for your retirement 30 years in the future and all the money that you're going to put away towards. Towards it.

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

Yeah.

[Christy Talarico]

So it's just two different constructs, 100% and therefore two different paths.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well actually hopefully one leads to the next.

[American Express Platinum Card Advertiser]

Right?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I mean hopefully people get to the point where they're talking about the long term stuff, where they're through those hurdles. Which is why I think we just need a lot more education about the difference between a financial coach, which a lot of people need. When I was a financial planner, people come to me and I would end up doing financial coaching with them more because I like them them I couldn't really make any money. It's not the way financial planning operations are set up. But it was because of the fact that I wanted to see this person succeed. But now there's a whole industry as well. You guys are a part of a financial coaching to help people get on their feet and get things moving. I want to talk about that though, getting things moving because well, I love the Daisy story and about how she avoids the eighteen hundred dollar loan. She now gets eighteen hundred dollars which gives her the breathing room but now she's got to do something with with it. What's the next step then for Daisy? How were you guys able to help Daisy beyond that then to maybe I don't know if it's set up a budget, get rid of income insecurity, whatever the next steps might be that's a great question.

[Christy Talarico]

Thank you so much for asking. So after we're done helping Daisy solve that first problem, it would be very easy to say, okay, you've got a permanent apartment, you're safe, your house, you've got food. Okay, nice to meet you. Right. It would be very easy to just kind of let it go. But I think the value of our financial assistance and a big differentiator is that we don't go away. Daisy's FA called her back to the table. And because she had built so much credibility by helping getting her temporary and then permanent housing, she was able to ask a tough question, and that was, hey, Daisy, because you link your credit report with us through your app, I can see that you have $40,000 in credit card debt across 10 accounts. Can you tell me, does that feel overwhelming for you? Would you be interested in figuring out a way together and let's looking at some options that we can get that paid down and paid off and make it stop and just end it? And, you know, this is now a person that Daisy trusts, and the FA had to work for that trust. But now that the trust was built, Daisy says, of course, I would love that help. That's fantastic.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I was going to say, if I were Daisy, I wouldn't. Am I interested? Are you kidding me? Like, who would?

[American Express Platinum Card Advertiser]

Exactly.

[Christy Talarico]

I'm over the moon. Yes, absolutely. It's like when someone walks into a therapist's office for the first time. You walked in, you know you need help. You know you're there for a reason, and you're not going to spill all the skeletons out of your closet at once. This has to be one conversation at a time, one data point at a time, Little bits of credibility building at a time. So once we get to that point of trust, it's almost like anything is possible.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I want to focus on something else, too, because there's been a lot of discussion lately around AI We've talked about AI a lot on the show, but the fact that this was a real person helping her, from my standpoint, from the outside looking in, Christy, has huge advantages. Just this caring that an individual person can do. Like, like, you know, AI talks to me all the time like, hey, Joe, you're great. That was a great prompt. My God, are you smart. We should do more smart stuff that you do. Every. It's great. But I also know that it's a little disingenuous, but when a human being says, you know what? You can make this happen, I feel like there's power in this human Connection as well, Christie.

[Christy Talarico]

Yeah, there absolutely is. It's funny, when I talk to FAs, we shadow them all the time. And every HR exec I speak to ask the same question. Is that a human being? Like, yes, that's a human being. That is not a bot. And every FA says when they've built relationships with their client, they say, like, we're at the point where it's a friendship. It's like. It's almost like an angel on the shoulder helping you make good decisions and then helping you take that first step and then the next step and then the next step, and keeping you motivated with positive reinforcement and an emphasis on the belief that there is a solve to your problem, that there's a resolution at the end of this road. So let's walk down it together.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You know, often when it comes to money problems, we think, oh, Christie's making great points, man. Maybe I should get help. But I'm going to work on this another month, another two months, another three months by myself and see if I can solve it myself. I used to go to this church, and the woman leading the church had this great sermon. One of my favorite sermons of all time, Christy, which was, I'm going to give it to God as soon as I finish it up myself, But I'm going to make sure it's. It's completely buried. When you and I were chatting about this before, you talked about the human toll. Like, seriously, the physical toll, and we even mentioned it at the top of the show. Let's talk a little bit about the physical problems that this creates when you're dealing with all this financial stress.

[Christy Talarico]

Yeah, I mean, so listen, I'm sure that all of your stackers can relate to the being in the position of living with financial insecurity. We call it living with financial illness. And when you are living with financial illness, there is a massive tie to mental health and physical health being strung together. And financial health almost sits at the bottom of that. If you are not financially healthy, you are suffering from anxiety and depression. Definitely. And if you are financially unhealthy, your cortisol levels are perpetually raised. And any stacker who listens to this and remembers and knows what it feels like to be obsessively thinking about money all day, every day, every waking moment, feels anxious all the time. And the Mayo Clinic just released a study in February of this year of 280,000 adults, and they found that financial strain is as bad for the heart as smoking. So now we have learned through the Mayo Clinic that Perpetually raised cortisol levels causes premature cardiac aging. So now we know, okay, financial stress actually can make you sick. It is making you sick. And it's just another incentive to try to find a way to solve it. Solve it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It's wild. The feedback loop here. Money stress damages your health. Health problems create missed work, co pays prescriptions, additional bills. It's tough to get out in front of that cycle.

[Christy Talarico]

Right, exactly. So think about it from a company standpoint. So now you are a large employer, you're in the Fortune 1000, and you have thousands of people that work for your company. If we assume that 70% of them are financially unhealthy in some way, we are creating workforce outcomes through this problem that impact absenteeism, presenteeism, meaning that you're physically at work, but you're not concentrating at work, creating safety incident issues. Accidents happen due to lack of focus, loas, sick days, and yes, as you mentioned, healthcare claimant costs. The list goes on and on.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

We did a show a few weeks ago about 401k plans and the Roth component component. And we asked the question about if they don't have the Roth component, what do you do? And OG my co host said, talk to your HR team. Talk to your HR team. Your HR team wants to hear from you. They want to hear, hey, we really want the Roth component. What's interesting about that, Christy, and I'm going to tie it into what you guys do here in a second. Is that the outpouring that I got after that show of HR professionals going, yes, tell us what you want, tell us what you will use. Please, please, please, please. Because we get zero feedback from the people that work for us. And if you gave us more feedback, we could create programs to help you with this. Bright side interacts with your employer and it could be something that your employer works with already or if they don't, it's the kind of thing that you could go talk to your employer about. So let's talk specifically about Bright side. How does it work? How do you guys work? And how do you interface with an existing HR program that already has a slate of benefits?

[Christy Talarico]

Sure. Thank you for that. So Daisy's story was a great example of what happens in the day to day if your employer is partnered with Brightside. We are a financial care benefit, not a financial wellness benefit, because our first priority are people who are not financially well. And we sell the benefit to employers who then provide it as a free benefit to employees. And what it is, is an app that is paired with Unlimited access to a financial assistant that you build a relationship with a human. And instead of them being a CFP or having their Series 7, in many cases they have a social worker background or a teacher background or a nurse background. Patient care associates think people who have professional experience motivating someone to do something hard that they don't want to do that is good for them. And through that relationship, we solve for people one financial problem at a time until they are building their own emergency savings, paying off their 401k loan and not taking out another one and starting to live a financially healthy life to the point where they don't need us anymore and they get unlimited access for that. So a Daisy was able to get a temporary home, get a permanent home, work through $40,000 in credit card debt. And she didn't pay for any of those services because her employer provided that benefit. And the great thing is she can do it with 100% trust. Because we don't monetize a single choice that any employee makes if they do wind up with a loan. Because we have a saying around here, it's better to be in debt with a roof over your head than the other way around. So fine. So if an employee does wind up with a loan or a referral to one of our partners, we don't make any money on any choice. We don't monetize employee choices. We are only incented to make sure that the client client is helped and the right thing is done by them.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And if somebody wants to bring this to their HR Pro, the website is

[Christy Talarico]

website is gobrightside.com awesome.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And if you're walking the dog stackers or you're on a commute, we've got your back. It'll be in the show notes page. It's Decky benjamin.com Christy Talarico I have to laugh because I now it's funny. When we met there was no association with telo. Now I say Tellarico go.

[Christy Talarico]

And you just got James on the brain.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. You know, it's triggering one way or another for everybody no matter what you're people like yay or nay. I don't know. I don't know what it is.

[Christy Talarico]

But I mean we are progressive for what that's worth.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Employee wellness. Well, let's get it. I think we can get bipartisan around financial health. I think we all get excited about.

[Jill Schlesinger]

About that.

[Christy Talarico]

Absolutely. I don't think there's a single person who does not feel like it's important to be able to comfortably house and feed their families and provide generational health for their family's future. That's one thing that absolutely everyone can agree on.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Hi, I'm Mitchell Walker and when I'm not teaching people how to find hidden

[Jill Schlesinger]

money, I'm out stacking Benjamins.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Big thanks to Jill and Christy. And thanks to you, OG, for just sitting quietly in the corner. Happy to keep doing that for the rest of the day. It was great. Well, you have your opportunity right now because I'm just going to go to Doug. Doug, what should we have learned on today's show?

[Doug (Joe's mom's neighbor)]

So what's stacked up on our to do list for today? First, take some advice from Jill Schlesinger. Delegating tasks. Great. Deciding to not learn how your money works. Money is too much of a fuel for the rest of your your life not to know. Second, benefits packages. Take some advice from Christy Talarico. If you're feeling overwhelmed, maybe there's more going on than you not understanding your 401k. But the big lesson, just because they call it the people's car doesn't mean it belongs to all the people. Apparently that's why Joe's mom got a little bent when I borrowed her keys. Who knew? Hey Ma. Mega superstar announcers are people too. Take it easy on me. Thanks to Jill Schlesinger for joining us today. You'll find her new podcast, Money Moves wherever you're listening to us now. We'll also include links in our show [e-mail] thanks also to Christy Tallorico for joining us today. Run benefits for your company. Check out Brightside. Head to gobrightside.com for details. And you know what? What? I'll also have my people put that on the show notes as well. You're welcome. Coming up on tomorrow's show, during this special five day extravaganza, you get statements that say Fidelity Investments, but do you know about the history of that company? We're joined by Wall Street Journal special reporter Justin Baer, who shares the secretive family behind the big brand and how financial Fidelity made their mark. This show is the property of SP Podcast, LLC, Copyright 2026 and is created by Josal Sehai. You'll find out about our awesome [e-mail] along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello. And oh yeah, before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don't take advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and we'll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show.

[American Express Platinum Card Advertiser]

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