Trapped in the Spend Cycle? How to Break Free from Consumerism SB1693

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Stacking Benjamins Show Episode: Trapped in the Spend Cycle? How to Break Free from Consumerism SB1693
Release Date: June 9, 2025
Hosts: Joe Saul-Sehy & OG
Network: StackingBenjamins.com | Cumulus Podcast Network

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Introduction

In the episode titled "Trapped in the Spend Cycle? How to Break Free from Consumerism," hosts Joe Saul-Sehy and OG delve into the pervasive issue of consumerism and its impact on personal finances. Setting the stage with humorous banter from Joe's “mom's basement,” the hosts aim to unravel the complexities of consumer behavior, debt accumulation, and strategies to regain financial autonomy.

Understanding Consumerism and Its Impacts

The conversation kicks off with a discussion about the classic "keeping up with the Joneses" mentality, exploring how societal pressures and marketing influence spending habits.

Joe:
"Has there been a time in either of your lives when you bought something and you went, you know, the total reason I did that was kind of because everybody else was doing it."
([08:39])

OG:
"I don't buy that at all. I look at that as... that's about the experience. You can argue all you want, but I thought it was."
([12:19])

This segment highlights the distinction between spending for social status versus genuine personal satisfaction, emphasizing the hidden costs of consumer-driven choices.

Personal Experiences and Spending Habits

Joe and OG share personal anecdotes illustrating their struggles with consumerism, such as unnecessary purchases driven by impulse or societal expectations.

Joe:
"I have a closet full of T-shirts. So instead I started when I saw a T-shirt that I like, I started just snapping a picture of it... three days later, I don't care about it anymore."
([20:10])

Doug:
"I really hope I'm not saying this too loud so certain people don't hear it, but..."
([27:46])

These stories serve to humanize the issue, making it relatable for listeners who may recognize similar patterns in their own spending behaviors.

Strategies to Break Free from the Spend Cycle

The hosts discuss actionable strategies to combat consumerism, focusing on aligning spending with personal values and establishing a values-based budget.

OG:
"Change the verbiage from 'have to' to 'I'm choosing to.' That gives you the power back to make a different choice."
([24:35])

Joe:
"Start with a values-based budget... pausing before I buy something. Who am I buying this for? Am I buying it for me or to put it in my brother's face?"
([23:25])

Key takeaways include:

• Values-Based Budgeting: Prioritize expenditures that align with personal values and long-term goals.
• Mindful Spending: Implement a "pause before purchase" habit to evaluate the necessity and motivation behind each spending decision.
• Debt Awareness: Recognize how impulsive purchases can lead to debt and stress, and seek solutions to manage and reduce debt effectively.

Current Events: The Rise of Buy Now, Pay Later Services

A significant portion of the episode analyzes the growing trend of Buy Now, Pay Later (BNPL) services like Klarna and their implications on consumer debt.

Joe:
"Klarna's consumer credit losses swelled 17% in the first quarter from the same period a year earlier, hitting $136 million."
([37:14])

Doug:
"The lower the barrier to entry, the more likely it is that a larger amount of people default or are seriously late."
([38:48])

The hosts critique the BNPL model, arguing that while it offers consumers flexibility, it often leads to increased debt and financial instability due to ease of access and delayed payments.

Financial Health and Consumer Debt Trends

Leveraging data from sources like JP Morgan, the hosts provide a macroeconomic perspective on household debt trends and their broader economic implications.

OG:
"Household debt service as a percentage of personal income was a little over 12% at the height of the Great Recession... now it's risen to 11% in Q1 2025."
([40:06])

Joe:
"If you're buying stuff and it's staying on your credit card or you're using services like Klarna, it's probably stuff you shouldn't be doing."
([42:03])

These insights underscore the importance of monitoring debt levels relative to income and being cautious with credit-based purchases to maintain financial health.

Practical Tips and Takeaways

To empower listeners to break free from consumerism, Joe and OG offer practical advice:

1. Assess Priorities: Determine what truly matters to you and allocate your budget accordingly.
2. Limit Impulse Purchases: Adopt strategies like waiting periods before making non-essential purchases.
3. Seek Financial Independence: Focus on reducing debt and saving to achieve long-term financial goals.
4. Educate Yourself: Stay informed about financial trends and how they affect personal finances.

Conclusion

In wrapping up, the hosts emphasize that combating consumerism is not about deprivation but about making informed and intentional spending choices that reflect individual values and aspirations. By adopting a mindful approach to finances, listeners can escape the relentless cycle of consumerism and work towards financial freedom.

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Notable Quotes:

• Joe on Debt and Stress:

  "Debt isn't just about money. It's about stress and sleepless nights and that constant weight on your shoulders. It can affect your relationships. It can shred your confidence."
  ([04:20])

• OG on Consumer Experiences:

  "That is the experience. You can argue all you want, but I thought it was."
  ([12:19])

• Joe on Values-Based Spending:

  "There's no doubt about it. I was hanging out with a guy... keeping up with Major League Baseball is a cost I'm going to pay to keep up with Major League Baseball."
  ([17:51])

• Doug on Financial Decisions:

  "My goal is I want to leave both boys a million dollars when I die."
  ([28:29])

• Joe on Budgeting:

  "Starting with a values-based budget is probably the best place to start."
  ([23:37])

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from The Stacking Benjamins Show episode on consumerism. By weaving together personal anecdotes, financial data, and practical advice, Joe and OG provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of consumer behavior and actionable strategies to achieve financial well-being.

Transcript

[Joe Salcihai]

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[Joe Salcihai]

It's Monday morning in mom's basement. You know what that means. OG is cranky. Who knew? Doug. Who knew?

[Doug]

He must have the worst weekends of anybody because he always shows up on Monday rougher than a billy Goats knee.

[Joe Salcihai]

Let's get billy goats. Totally. Have you been hanging out with mom? That's like a 50s callback there. Oh, my goodness. Well, you know what we've got to do though. We have to. It doesn't matter who's cranky, who's happy. You know, we're all happy about. We're happy that the men and women in our military protected us for another fantastic weekend here in the early June. I can't believe it's early June. That's incredible. Let's raise our glasses, gentlemen. And all you stackers out there in stacker land, raise your mugs. Because on behalf of men and women making podcasts in mom's basement, the men and women at Navy Federal Credit Union, big salute out to our troops. Thank you so much. Let's go stack some Benjamins together this week, shall we?

[Doug]

Thanks, everybody. My God, Joe. I just wanted to take a drink and you just kept going on and.

[Joe Salcihai]

On and I'd like to say, my God. But wait, there's more.

[OG]

That was a little boy. I thought the greatest thing in the.

[Joe Salcihai]

World would be to be able to make records.

[OG]

Okay, now let's just play this and.

[Joe Salcihai]

You'Ll see what it sounds like.

[Doug]

Live from Joe's mom's basement, it's the Stacking Benjamin Show. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor. Doug. And hey, have you bought the latest hot new toys? How about the great looking car everyone else drives? Or. Or maybe the house in the cool neighborhood? Today, we're deep diving into consumerism and what it costs. Your wallet. We'll talk about your spending budget and tips to find a way to keep up. No, not do that. That's exactly what we're not talking about.

[Joe Salcihai]

Tips to keep up with the Joneses, how you can buy the latest toy.

[Doug]

All right, I'm doing it again. We'll talk about your spending budget and tips to find a way out of keeping up with the neighbor Dougs. But that's not all, of course. We'll also share a TikTok minute that just may show how smart we are. And I'll also whip up a batch of my shareable trivia. And now, two guys who have been there, done that. When it comes to trying all the fun consumerism rabbit holes, it's Joe and O. Ja Ja Jaja.

[Joe Salcihai]

Hey there, stackers. Welcome to the buy one, get one free episode of the Stacking Benjamin show. Because you just need another one. You just, oh, I gotta have it. Gotta have the shiny object. It's consumerism week in mom's basement and we are going to teach you how to find a way out of that rabbit hole. And I've been there, done that. And across the card table from me is the other guy who's been there, done that. When it comes to doing all the consumerism, trying all the shiny bits. Mr. OG's here. How are you, buddy?

[OG]

I am a little under the weather and I am all about consumerism. So I can't wait to talk about it.

[Doug]

This is the episode he's been waiting for.

[Joe Salcihai]

Let me tell you what spawned this. And the reason we're doing consumerism week is that we're joined by the amazing host of the Money with Katie show on Wednesday, Kitty Gaddy Tessen. Katie begins her new project talking about the hot girl hamster wheel, which is.

[Doug]

Which is how I've seen that movie.

[Joe Salcihai]

There was. They're all over. They're just going in circles. There's an entire brand of feminism that Katie rejects that is all based on women getting money out of other women's wallets, right? You deserve it, girl. You deserve beauty, you deserve more. You deserve all this self care. And by the way, it's only going to cost you a little bit. When she realized how much money that was costing her, she's like, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait a minute, minute. Well, guys, Og, you and I, we've been there too. We're, we're definitely not on the hot girl hamster wheel.

[OG]

Speak for yourself.

[Joe Salcihai]

But, but, but we have definitely done the consumerism thing and seen the dead ends where that can take us. So where's the healthy middle? We're going to talk about that. That's our deep dive on today's episode. But before we dive in, we have a couple sponsors to make sure that this is all free for you and you get all this goodness without paying a dime. So let's hear from them. And then we are deep diving into consumerism and how to escape the hamster wheel. I know personally that debt isn't just about money. It's about stress and sleepless nights and that constant weight on your shoulders. It can affect your relationships. It can shred your confidence. Truly. It can overshadow your whole life. So know that if you've ever felt any of that, you're not alone. There are millions of Americans struggling with debt, but there's a solution that can help. Beyond Finance was founded with a simple mission to help those struggling with overwhelming debt find a pathway to financial freedom. They can help you escape that endless cycle of making just minimum payments. Typical Beyond Finance clients see their payments on enrolled debt lowered by 40% or more, so you can expect immediate relief and the chance to start saving. The team prioritizes a hands on compassionate approach coupled with a focus on helping you get out of debt as soon as possible, save money and establish long term financial well being. They offer personalized 24. 7 support and financial wellness sessions with accredited financial therapist and you know you're in good hands with a Trust pilot rating of 4.6 out of 5 stars. So if you're ready to take that first step or learn more about achieving financial wellness, visit Beyond Finance. The not available in all states. Fees vary by state. Results may vary. This episode is brought to you by Navy Federal Credit Union. With rising house prices and steeper mortgage rates, we know homeownership may seem too expensive to be achievable. But that's why we offer a Home Buyer's Choice Loan that can open the door to affordable homeownership. Our Home Buyer's Choice loan is no down payment options available, which means you don't need to wait years to save money. And with our no refi rate drop, you may be able to lower your rate in the future without refinancing. Plus, most lenders require borrowers to purchase private mortgage insurance unless they can make a 20 down payment. We don't require PMI finally, we offer fixed payments, so your monthly payment will always be the same. So if you're looking for your first home or your next home, you can open the door with the Navy Federal Home Buyer's Choice loan. Visit navy federal.org to learn how you can achieve home ownership. Navy Federal Credit Union. Our members are the mission. Terms and conditions apply. Equal housing Lender Loan subject to approval and eligibility requirements. Learn more@navy federal.org let's start off with a problem with the Joneses. OG there's that old phrase, right? Buying stuff that we don't care about to impress people we don't know by spending money on things we can't afford. Something there.

[Doug]

Pretty sure you butchered that one, but we get the gist of it.

[Joe Salcihai]

No, I didn't butcher it. I made it ours.

[Doug]

Okay, I see it.

[Joe Salcihai]

I totally, yeah. Got around all of the corporate marketing and made it ours. But there is something wrong with it. I mean, I just wonder, has there been a time in either of your lives when you bought something and you went, you know, the total reason I did that was kind of because everybody else was doing it. And I wanted to see if it was. If it was as cool as everybody else thought that it was. I remember growing up, it's going to be a little bit of a dated story, but I remember when everybody was going to see Star wars. Like, everybody was going to see Star Wars.

[OG]

The original ones or the original. Or the last third.

[Joe Salcihai]

The original one. And I could hear our youngest listeners going, okay, Boomer here, here we go.

[OG]

Yeah.

[Joe Salcihai]

But I do remember that everybody was going to see this movie. And I was pounding on my parents. I mean, even at a young age, I'm pounding on my parents because of consumerism. I knew nothing about the movie except that it was the cool thing to go see. Everybody was going to see it. Friends of mine had seen it three times already, and my parents were like, yeah, I don't know. Space opera just. I don't know. I think we end up seeing it way later at the dollar theater. But even at a young age, I mean, you can see, oh, gee, I'm sure there to some degree you get that from your kids, right?

[OG]

I think that the boys are less in it, and I don't know why. I think maybe some of it has to do with the fact that they wear uniforms to school. The only expression of personality is sneakers. But there's a little bit of it. I think it's more for my daughter. So you're talking in the open about girls helping Women helping women, but they're basically not helping them by whatever. And Caroline's nine now, so, I mean, we definitely see the, like, I want to go to Sephora, I want to go to Ulta, because that's the stuff she's being marketed to.

[Doug]

Nine years old needs to go to the makeup store.

[OG]

Well, it's skincare, Doug.

[Joe Salcihai]

It's health and wellness.

[OG]

You wouldn't know anything about that.

[Doug]

I am so sorry.

[Joe Salcihai]

Health and wellness, yeah.

[OG]

But, yeah, the kids have not seemed to been drawn into that. The boys, anyway. Too much yet. I was thinking about your question of, like, when did, like, is there any. Ever been a thing that, you know, I was super.

[Joe Salcihai]

Wait a minute. Because I think in other ways, your boys have been drawn into it, and so have you and I, but maybe not on the skincare area or fashion, but let's just talk about sports. I mean, when it comes to sports, going to the cool game, sitting in the cool seats is a lot of social comparison, isn't it?

[Doug]

I mean, his kids don't sit in seats. They're in the suite where they're just roaming around casually eating all the chicken fingers they can get. I mean, they don't want to go to the seats.

[Joe Salcihai]

There is a social comparison going on.

[OG]

I mean, to whom are they comparing it, though?

[Joe Salcihai]

To their friends, to everyone else. I get to sit in the cool seats at the game. I'm sitting in a spot that's better than those seats way, way, way up there that other people aren't sitting in.

[OG]

Well, to be fair, though, we have not really done that ever. I mean, other than the.

[Joe Salcihai]

And by not do that, I mean he means sit in the cheap seats.

[OG]

No, we don't go to sporting events. We've gone to like three. We went to a couple of Michigan games in a row two years ago.

[Joe Salcihai]

Okay, wait a minute, wait a minute.

[Doug]

Who. Yeah.

[Joe Salcihai]

Who took their family to the Big Ten championship game?

[OG]

I just said three games, three Michigan.

[Joe Salcihai]

Games of the Rose Bowl.

[Doug]

And whose kids were catching or nearly catching home run balls at the Rangers game last year?

[OG]

Well, I wasn't there. They were there.

[Joe Salcihai]

I think it's still social comparison. I mean, we've bought into the fact that this game is important. Right? We bought into the fact this team is important.

[OG]

See, I don't buy that at all. I look at that as. To me, that's not consumerism. That is about the experience. You can. You can argue all you want, but I thought it was. When I think about the Rose Bowl, I don't think about the fact that we went to the Rose bowl game and that everybody was like, oh my God, you must be rich because you can go to the Rose bowl game. It has nothing to do with that. Or sticking my, you know, nose in the air to my brother who didn't go because he's also a Michigan fan, like, ha, ha, ha. Look how better I am than you. It was about our family having an experience that included the Rose bowl game. We had a week long trip where we started in Dallas, we went to Michigan, did Christmas with the families, then we flew across the country. We had a day at Disney, which was fun. When I tell the story about the Rose bowl trip, it's not about like, oh my gosh, the game was amazing. The game was amazing, by the way. And it ended right in our end zone, which we couldn't have asked for anything better. But it was so much more than just the game. I mean, don't we talk about this all the time of like, spend your money on experiences, not on things?

[Joe Salcihai]

Sure, but it's an experience. But let's think about this. Number one, it isn't always about climbing the ladder. Consumerism isn't always about climbing the ladder.

[OG]

Look at, look at climb a ladder. I was trying to go freaking experience.

[Joe Salcihai]

Because you said, well, it's not about putting in my brother's face. It put in your brother's face is climbing the ladder. I'm.

[OG]

That is not about that.

[Joe Salcihai]

Exactly. And I'm saying that you're 100. Right. But it doesn't have to be about that.

[OG]

I'm confused.

[Joe Salcihai]

Think about this. If all experiences are created equal, then why am I doing an experience that cost me a lot more money than another experience? The reason that I'm doing the one that costs more money is because I have been socialized to believe that this activity is worth it.

[Doug]

Sure. We could go to the high school baseball game for free in our town. Right? In our local town. We don't need to have.

[Joe Salcihai]

They're not free, but okay, okay, 10 bucks. Whatever.

[Doug]

My God.

[OG]

Well, I mean, the minor league game is also $10. So which one of these is.

[Doug]

But our point. So. Or. Or we don't need to have the thermidor fridge or the wolf oven or the, you know, we. We all are living above basic, basic needs, and that is largely due to some type of consumerism. I'm actually agreeing.

[OG]

I disagree with all of that, Doug.

[Joe Salcihai]

I think it's because you've 100% bought into it.

[OG]

I mean, whatever. I mean, you're. It's like you're fat shaming me for some reason and I don't get it.

[Doug]

No, I put myself in that category.

[OG]

I'm needs either a freaking. You know, going to a World Series game is the same thing as going to. From an experience standpoint, the same thing as going to a high school game, or that it's because you bought into.

[Joe Salcihai]

The trope that this is worth it.

[OG]

Talking about it's the best 18 players in the entire universe playing, doing something. Okay, going to. So is it better to go see the 8th grade drum line or the, you know, symphony orchestra in the park?

[Joe Salcihai]

And assuming just go for a hike. Why did you buy into the fact that that's even the best thing anyway versus going on a hike?

[OG]

I have no idea where you're.

[Doug]

Let me. I'm going to. I want to read. I want to redirect this joke because we're obviously heading somewhere with this.

[OG]

And definitely there are materials and products that are superior to other materials and products in terms of quality. Now, we can argue whether or not it's 3x quality because it costs 3x more, but you can't tell me that the refrigerator that you can get at the. You said Thermador fridge. The refrigerator that you can buy at the garage sale that may or may not work is the same thing as buying a brand new one. That's. Well, here's the consumerism.

[Joe Salcihai]

Here's the point buyer. We don't need og you to buy into it to know that it's science and it's a fact. We don't need you to agree.

[OG]

Okay.

[Joe Salcihai]

When I went to walk by Fenway park, there is a piece of consumerism. When I see 1902, I turn to Cheryl and I go, I think it's just incredibly badass that they can put that they were champions in 1902. But there's a consumerism going on there, which is why they put it on the banner so that I'm gonna buy the ticket to go into the stadium so that I'm a part of this Red Sox nation quote experience versus being out on a hike. That is. That is social comparison. There's no doubt about it. And they market the hell out of it, which is how they can market the tickets better. If you want to hear consumerism as his finest, go listen to the acquired podcast and how they got the super bowl to be the big thing. The super bowl is how they've turned the draft in the NFL into a draft that. That 750,000 people in Detroit went to over 600,000 people went to and even way out there in Green Bay.

[Doug]

Oh, God.

[Joe Salcihai]

Went to. It is 100% consumerism. It's 100%.

[OG]

I doesn't cost anything to go there.

[Joe Salcihai]

I've bought into this thing.

[OG]

Yeah.

[Joe Salcihai]

There's no marketing going on at all.

[OG]

No, I'm asking.

[Joe Salcihai]

There is. There is no.

[OG]

I don't know.

[Joe Salcihai]

Doesn't do any of that. Any of that for marketing. Stop.

[OG]

Does it cost money to go to the draft?

[Joe Salcihai]

I think the point is, is to figure out what's important to you and what's not. I love Major League Baseball. I buy into the fact that going to the game is fun as hell and I'm willing to spend money on the fact that. But I also know that it's because I bought into that. I was hanging out with a guy at the Stacker event, a nice guy named Kevin, and we were talking about the game because I was at this cool game where there was a walk off home run. I go, oh my God. I was at the game Saturday. He goes, I don't follow baseball conversation over 100 over. Because he hasn't bought into it at all. Or maybe he just doesn't like spending this money. He's not doing the thing.

[Doug]

I thought you said Kevin was a cool guy. Where's this story going?

[Joe Salcihai]

So I think there is a hidden cost. If I want to keep up with Major League Baseball, there's a cost I'm going to pay to keep up with Major League Baseball. And it is the same as what Katie's going to talk about on Wednesday with the hot girl hamster wheel, which is if I want to play the game of I'm going to take part in the skincare routine every day, I'm going to do this thing. There is a cost to that. And to say that that has nothing to do with consumerism, that I'm buying thing A versus thing B is I think, denying what the next step is, which is deciding, is it really important to you? Is it worth it? Because that's really where this needs to go. It needs to go to, you know what? Is it worth it to me? Yeah. I'll spend $90 few months ago on Ranger tickets that are in the third deck. I'll do that.

[Doug]

My God.

[Joe Salcihai]

I know, right?

[Doug]

$90 for upper deck.

[Joe Salcihai]

$90 upper deck.

[Doug]

Wow.

[Joe Salcihai]

Yeah. Walk off home run, by the way, against the Dodgers. They beat the Dodgers.

[Doug]

Can you come to Detroit in a few weeks when I'm going to see them play the Cubs? Because I'd like a couple of walk offs Seems like you have a knack for bringing on walk offs.

[Joe Salcihai]

I think it's Cheryl because I went to a game without her with Len instead at the Angel Stadium, and it was horrible.

[Doug]

Okay.

[Joe Salcihai]

Yeah. So I think you got to have Cheryl. Go, go. Not.

[Doug]

I've got Cheryl on speed dial, so I'll give her a call.

[Joe Salcihai]

But I think the step to break the psychology is exactly what you said. Is it worth the 3x or 4x or 5x? You'll see as an example, Disney aggressively raising prices over time. And I'm seeing more often in the news today than three years ago. Is this truly worth it? Like, is this brand of consumerism actually worth taking the family to Disney?

[Doug]

Well, and it might be. Here's where I suspect we're going to go. It might be worth the 3x or, you know, but not across your entire life. Not across all of the things that. Where you need to buy something. Pick your spots, right? There's going to be things that are worth it to you that match up with where your priorities are and your values and maybe family time at sporting events versus family time hiking. The return on that investment because of the way you're getting your family time might be worth it to you. I think you're going to say that's fine, but you can't do that for everything.

[Joe Salcihai]

Pick your spots. Right?

[Doug]

Pick your spots.

[Joe Salcihai]

Oh, 100. You know what's funny, Doug? I used to always get the T shirt when I was younger, and then I realized that I have a closet full of T shirts.

[Doug]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe Salcihai]

And there's not enough days to wear all these T shirts. So instead I started when I saw a T shirt that I like, you know, I started doing. I started just snapping a picture of it. And I don't know why, but snapping the picture. Snapping the picture of the thing. Well, but you know why three days later. I don't care about it. I just don't care about it. Instead of buying the T shirt for now, what, 45 bucks, I can barely.

[Doug]

Close my T shirt drawer.

[Joe Salcihai]

Yeah, yeah. I had to have a thing where only the top 10 got to stay and the rest had to go. And I've done that twice because you just keep buying it. Also did a thing where stickers for my luggage when I go to a place, which was super neat because it doesn't take up any room B. It's incredibly cheap. See, I get this thing on my luggage so I can identify it when it comes down the. Comes down the whole thing. But it's funny how that Became enough. So I think there has to be, oh, gee, this enough number, doesn't there?

[OG]

No. Why? I don't understand the question.

[Joe Salcihai]

So you don't think that people get themselves into debt because they dive too much into. Into just. I'm just gonna buy the stuff.

[OG]

Well, I mean, we weren't talking about debt. We were talking about spending money.

[Joe Salcihai]

We are, because spending money on stuff that you truly don't care about is where the debt comes from. I've been there.

[OG]

I mean, it could be, could be necessities, could be job loss or something like that. I don't know that I have the data on it, but I agree that I think as time goes on, you find out what you're more comfortable with spending money on. Whether that's the latest technology, whether it's the brand name clothes, whether it's the sporting event or outdoor activities or whatever. Like what Doug was saying, you find the thing that, that you want to lean into. It's almost like we were talking some time ago about charitable giving. I don't remember if this is somebody on our show or not brought this up. So, you know, when you're young, you give away money in like $50 increments and it might be better just to hold onto that. Maybe do like a donor advised fund and say, let me wait until I find the thing that's really important and that I really think that I think is important, and then I can donate lots of money to the one thing. And I think that's what you're saying here is that. Or maybe, maybe I'm just guessing, but stop just napalming everything with like, I want, I want, I want. Just wait and find the thing that's. Or the things that are more important to you.

[Joe Salcihai]

I think you have to have your enough number. This is what makes me happy. This is the area I love the idea of pausing before I buy something. You know, who am I buying this for? Am I buying it for me? Am I buying it for. To your point, oh gee, am I buying it so that I put this in my brother's face again? Like you said, you weren't doing that when you went to the sporting events, but I know people who do that. I see social media influencers on there. Look at where I'm at, look at where I'm standing. Who's the audience for this thing? Is it truly because I love it or is it because it's how I want people to perceive me? People that just don't actually care about me? I mean, there's A big difference between looking like you're wealthy and being wealthy. Right. We saw that in the millionaire Next door.

[OG]

Yeah. I mean, all the studies show that that's the case. Yeah.

[Joe Salcihai]

And spending against your values. So I think when it comes to the budget, starting with a values based budget is probably the best place to start.

[OG]

I think, honestly, everything counts. And this is probably, maybe it's the point that you're getting to here, but how many times do we talk to people that have they said, well, I can't get rid of this out of the budget. I have to have that. My kids have to go to that school. And it's like, well, they don't have to. You don't have to have that line item. You're choosing to. And I think as soon as you change the verbiage from have to, maybe to I'm choosing to, all of a sudden that gives you the energy back, that gives you the power back to make a different choice. Like I choose to buy Thermador refrigerators and Wolf stoves. I choose to go to the Rose Bowl. I choose to go to fancy dinners. I choose, you know, and then you can say, well, I choose not to do those things. But when you start saying things like I have to, you're putting all that power in somebody else's hands.

[Joe Salcihai]

100%. And it's funny how often we do that when we just unconsciously spend. Morgan Housel from his book the Psychology of Money. Spending money to show people how much money you have is the fastest way to have less money. Absolutely love that. But also, I think, to your point, OG realizing you're not a spreadsheet, you're a person, right. You're this. This person who likes stuff. I'm a person who likes baseball. This is what I like. You'll see grown men with other grown men's names across their back.

[Doug]

You'll see grown men with T shirts that say Doug on the front of them.

[Joe Salcihai]

And that's not consumerism at all.

[Doug]

No, that's supporting the right values for the future of our country.

[Joe Salcihai]

But I think this is where, you know, frugality is important. I love this conversation I have with Sean Mulaney, who's been on the show a couple times. When you walk into a Target and you see or pick your store, whatever it is, and you realize that even if you take care of all this stuff, even if you take care of it really, really well, all this stuff is going to be in a landfill someday. Then you walk into this store, this big department store, and you Go, oh.

[OG]

My God, all my stuff turns into carbon because I burn it.

[Joe Salcihai]

It's all going to get burned at some actual point and then another point. You know, Sean, who was for a long time a tax advisor for people, Sean, talking about how the stuff we really don't care about og we buy that stuff at the highest tax bracket because if you think about the things you value that you're not going to get rid of. So I choose to buy this and I choose to buy that. Whenever I'm buying it, I'm buying it with money out of my paycheck. So obviously my food, my lodging, the stuff that I need, those basic needs at the bottom of Maslow's hierarchy, I'm buying those at the lowest tax bracket because I'm not going to stop spending on those. But it's truly the stuff that I don't care about that I just go, yeah, okay, all right, take my money. I'm buying that at the top tax bracket with the last dollar out of my wallet.

[OG]

It doesn't change your taxes at all.

[Joe Salcihai]

It doesn't change your taxes at all. But it certainly changes the fact that if I would have taken that money and I would have saved it for another year on a thing that I cared about, or I would have spent it on a dollar I care about. I am. My non value based spending is more wasteful in terms of my own use of time. If I'm trading time for money, my own use of these dollars, than the things that I truly value, you know, because those aren't going to go away.

[Doug]

Yeah, the, the truly value part, I don't, I feel like we're skimming over the surface of that and we just need to go another five feet deeper. Because in the moment you think you value that thing, that impulse purchase you made late at night. I just made one the other night. I carry a pocket knife on me every day, all day. It's incredibly useful and it works. Now, the one I have isn't the greatest, but it works. And I bought a new one. It wasn't cheap. It was actually way more than I should have spent on a pocket knife. I really hope I'm not saying this too loud so certain people don't hear it, but.

[Joe Salcihai]

Sir, people who don't check the credit card statement.

[Doug]

Yeah, boy. It is the long term that doesn't match. Honestly, I hear myself say this out loud. It honestly doesn't match up with my long term value. I got a pocket knife on me that does everything I need it to do. Do I Have to sharpen it more often. Yeah, but I didn't need this new one.

[OG]

So what, like, wanting what you want is not. It's nobody else's business. There's nothing wrong with saying, I want this.

[Doug]

No, no, I.

[OG]

And getting it. There's nothing wrong.

[Doug]

I'm not talking about other.

[Joe Salcihai]

Nobody's saying there's anything wrong with it.

[Doug]

OG yeah, but I'm realizing as I think about my own behavior, I'm realizing that's not my long term thing. My long term thing is being debt free and, you know, go into debt.

[OG]

To buy a knife.

[Doug]

But it all adds up, right? I've got a lot of those little impulse things where I had a thing that served the need before and I decided I needed to upgrade or I needed to get a newer one. And if I didn't do all of those things, I would have those funds down the road to be able to make my life a lot less stressful when I'm 75, when I'm Joe's age.

[OG]

Well, let me ask you this. I'm not being a jackass about it. Do you feel like you're on track for your financial plan?

[Doug]

Yeah, I do.

[OG]

Okay, so damn you. What is the point of limiting yourself and the thing that you want, which is rightfully selfish to have, because for no other reason than you want it, you don't need anybody's approval if all of your things are already good. All you're doing otherwise is saying, well, I'll just pile this money up for somebody else. Which may be important to you, but if it were, you would have that in your plan. You would say, my goal is I want to leave both boys a million dollars when I die.

[Joe Salcihai]

You know, I love OG I love what you just said. And the reason I love what you just said is walking through that thing.

[OG]

That flipped pretty quickly, didn't it?

[Joe Salcihai]

What's that?

[OG]

I said, that flipped pretty quickly.

[Joe Salcihai]

What do you mean?

[OG]

And all of a sudden you love what I said?

[Joe Salcihai]

I do love what you said. Because walking through that thinking is what this episode's all about, is the fact that we don't think about the fact. Is there something I would rather do with this? Are you on track? Like walking Doug down that thing? Are you on track or are you not? Because you know what? There's a bunch of people in our audience who aren't, and they're spending money on. They don't care about. And for those people, the answer is yeah, the pocket knife is just absolutely stupid. That was a stupid purchase because it's not on track for what your true goal was. But for Doug, you're walking him through the fact that he is okay and he can spend the money. I was about to say that I got this kitchen knife that I bought that's badass. Cost me a ton of money. Did I need. Hell no, I didn't need it. You know what, though? I take that thing out now and I'm cutting up stuff because I like to cook. And it is so fun. It is so 100% fun.

[Doug]

A good knife in a kitchen is a game changer, isn't it?

[Joe Salcihai]

Oh, it was so. It's so fun. It is just absolutely great. But the whole point of this episode is not shaming. It isn't don't buy stuff. It's realized that I'm buying into these constructs and is it truly important to me to go to the Red Sox game?

[Doug]

So let's do some Doug counseling here and. And we'll use Doug as what, an avatar? A use case. Because you're right. I'm glad you asked me that question. I do feel very comfortable that we are on the path long term all the way through retirement, because there's no way in hell I'm living to 104.

[OG]

Now with that attitude.

[Doug]

But, you know, here's where my initial worry or guilt shame myself about buying that pocket knife. It's a Benchmade. It's so sweet.

[OG]

You just asked me. I got like six of them. I sent you one. I'm kidding.

[Doug]

Damn you Is.

[OG]

Oh, benchmates.

[Doug]

Yeah. Here's the thought. Is that all of those little purchases that I make, even though I feel like I'm. I feel comfortable when I look at the data, that I'm on the right track for a worry free, comfortable retirement, is that some unforeseen circumstance happens.

[OG]

Was that not accounted for in your mind?

[Doug]

And I needed that money even more. Something outside of what the plan accounts for. And so it's that Black Swan event that is not planned for that I'm going to look back and say, damn, why did I buy that fishing equipment, that knife? Why did I go skiing with OG?

[OG]

I mean, it is what it is.

[Joe Salcihai]

Like, I don't think you can play that game.

[OG]

There's no way to account for all that. I mean, what if you get in your car and you slip getting on the running board and you smash your head on the concrete and nobody finds you for three days? What if that happens and you're laying there going, damn, I never got to use my knife.

[Doug]

That is oddly specific Scenario.

[OG]

What if somebody shoves you down the stairs right.

[Joe Salcihai]

Right at the end of this episode.

[OG]

Oops, my bad. I didn't see you there.

[Doug]

No.

[OG]

What if somebody holds your head underwater when you go swimming next time? Just saying get tangled in some fishing line. It's a freak accident.

[Joe Salcihai]

Well, I know. Gee, that is the other side of this, right? I mean, there's these people, great savers. A lot of people listen to the show, have trouble spending money for that very. I might need it later. I might need to. What am I going to. And oh my goodness, like letting go and actually doing the thing that. And having the pocket knife without regret is such a. Such hard place to be. I got a headline, by the way, that is all about this consumerism issue. There's a problem. There's a big problem happening around the world right now. And we're going to talk about that next. But before we get to kind of a little bit, a little bit troubling area of consumerism. Doug, I think it's time that we break for a second because you've got a phenomenal trivia question today.

[Doug]

Hey there, stackers. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and today we're celebrating the day that income tax withholding was first levied on the American population. What a great day. Joe's mom suggested a great way to celebrate. Here's what you do. You just take out an envelope, throw some cash in it, mail it to us. You don't even have to wait to do that once a year. You can do that every week if you want. It's going to give you the same great feeling every time you file your taxes. And while you're searching for a stamp, how about I fill in the time with some trivia? What president signed the legislation giving the green light to withhold income tax from your paycheck? I'll be back right after I go grab a hammer. Joe's mom says pounding on your left hand is another fun way to simulate taxes. Apparently gives you the same sensation.

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[Joe Salcihai]

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[Doug]

Hey there, stackers. I'm Band Aid wearer and guy who's now looking for a kinder, gentler way to tax Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. Want some fun? Try this out. Guess how much you paid in federal taxes last year. Now go find your tax return and see. Were you close? Most people find they're paying far more than they'd guessed. But what I really want you to guess is the answer to today's trivia question. What president signed that nefarious legislation that sneakily let the government withhold taxes from your paycheck so you didn't see it coming out and didn't have to pay it yourself with a check or cash? Well, that law was signed on today's date, way back in 1943, which means it was Franklin Delano Roosevelt who signed the bill into law requiring employers to collect taxes from their employees as they are paid. And here come two guys who are laying down the law on kicking consumerism to the curb. It's Joe and OG.

[OG]

Man.

[Joe Salcihai]

We got a headline. Steve, play the headline. Hello, darlings.

[OG]

And now it's time for your favorite.

[Joe Salcihai]

Part of the show, our Stacking Benjamin's Headlines. Our headline comes to us from. Oh, boy. Comes to us from NBC News. This is written by J.J. mcCorvey. Buy now, pay Never. Some Klarna users struggle to repay loans as US Consumer debt rises.

[OG]

Weird.

[Joe Salcihai]

Here's an issue, OG Remember this thing Klarna, where you can have this Magic deal where you're not going to pay any interest as long as you pay back these easy payments later. If you just make the payments on time, things are going to be good. And Klarna makes no money. And we thought, how does that work? This sounds like magic. Sounds amazing. For a while it was amazing for Klarna because people would make the payments, but they make them late, meaning Klarna made a lot of money. But now we're on the other side of that. Klarna's customers are having a harder time paying back the installment loans they take out with their popular buy now, pay later service. The Swedish company's net losses doubled in the first quarter even as its user base and revenue grew, Klarna reported a couple weeks ago. Weeks after pausing its plans to go public over concerns over tariffs and economic uncertainty, Klarna's consumer credit losses swelled 17% in the first quarter from the same period a year earlier, hitting $136 million. So $136 million consumer credit losses because people decided, oh, gee, I'm just going to use Klarna and hey, I'm not going to pay for this.

[OG]

I mean, that's how unsecured debt works. The lower the barrier to entry, the more likely it is that a larger amount of people default or are seriously late.

[Joe Salcihai]

Couldn't have seen this coming a mile away. This was not at all shocking. I remember being at the Galleria mall in Houston, this huge mall in Houston, and go around a corner and it says, make the holidays more magical with Klarna, if I can do the holiday season on three easy payments, Og, I mean, just imagine how magical it can be.

[OG]

Costco has buy now, pay later, even at the food court. Well, you can get a $50 hot dog and coke and pay it over.

[Joe Salcihai]

Time and pay for it later. Pay for your $50 hot dog later.

[OG]

Yeah, this is just an extension of unsecured debt. And what's going to happen? So you go, oh, poor Klarna. Well, guess what? They're not stupid, they're not idiots. So what they're going to do is for the people that do pay but pay late, the costs are going to rise exceptionally to offset the fact that more and more people are just outright not paying. So American Express, Visa, Klarna, bank of America, these guys do not lose money. They take a temporary dip and go, oh, our models are a little off. We're going to now raise the rates to offset.

[Doug]

I'd like to see some comps between unpaid Klarna debt and Unpaid Visa and other. Because I honestly think this is a little bit of a headline grabbing, attention grabbing headline because it says in the news piece I read on this and you're right Joe, this was now a couple of weeks ago. If you look at the dollar figure that hasn't been paid that's outstanding in Klarna, it is astounding. And I think it's because we pair in our heads we pair Klarna with stupid purchases, with burritos and with, you know, socks or whatever or put together yourself furniture at Target and you think, well that's not worthy of using something like Klarna. But their total share, when they actually did their reporting, their total share of unpaid debt just went from 0.51of a percent. So half of a percent to 0,54. Look, I'm not saying it's good, this is ridiculous, no question about it. But I just don't think the news here.

[Joe Salcihai]

I think the news here is more in the trend. It's in the trend that it went up 17%, Doug. That's where the news is. Is it a 70% higher than it was before? In a survey conducted by Credit platform Lending Tree last month, 41% of users said they paid late within the last year, which is up from 34% the previous year. Listen to this one. At least a quarter of Buy Now Pay later users took out loans to pay for groceries. The survey found up from 14%. So we went from 14% of buy now Pay later people using it for groceries to a third of Buy Now Pay later customers saying they use it for groceries. And this is why I think it's a great time to talk about consumerism. Because if I'm looking at numbers that are up 17% from last quarter and I'm looking at going from 14 to 34% doesn't matter if you do it. The trend is more people are using this for things that I need today.

[OG]

So JP Morgan in their guide to the markets which is a great resource for all things data, looking at consumer finance balance sheet info, they go back to the 1980s. So it's hard to. It's a pretty small chart. But to give you an idea, in 1980, Q1 of 80 household debt service so debt payments as a percentage of personal income, disposable personal income was a little over 12% at the height of the Great Recession Q4.07 was 15.8%. So those are the 1980 to 2007 in Covid it dropped down to about 9%. All the stimulus money and to your point, Joe, it's risen from that. And as of Q1, 25 is at 11%. The average of. Just kind of looking at the chart, trying to figure it out. The average from 2010, let's say post recession through Covid, was right about 12. So household debt service is still lower than it was, but it's rising. And then on delinquencies, the largest increase on delinquencies is on auto loans and credit cards, with a little bit of mortgage delinquencies, but higher than it was during the 2000 teens, but somewhat on par with the oughts, if that's how you say that. So somewhere in there. So I think ultimately, from a big picture standpoint, nationally, the trend, you know, it's not great, right? It's up and to the right. Like you were saying, Joe, it's not. That's not where we want it to be. It's not as bad as it was. But I don't know that. I don't know that we want to go to the doctor and be like, I'm not as fat as I was once. I'm still fat, you know, but. But I'm not as fat. But kind of piecing this together with maybe what we talked about at the beginning, if you're buying stuff and it's going on your credit, I mean, this is a great litmus test, is if you're buying stuff and it's staying on your credit card or you're buying stuff on Klarna, it's probably stuff you probably shouldn't be doing, you know, and if it is something that you need to be doing, if it's like, no, dude, look at my credit card statement. It's groceries and gasoline. That's it. And I can't pay it off, then we need to work on the income side of your equation, because that's a real thing, too. But if you're looking and you're seeing to borrow the Dave Ramsey thing, the $100 sweater from J. Crew that you're paying on for the next 27 years, you know, and that's the lingering on your credit card statement, that's a problem. God forbid it's hot dogs.

[Joe Salcihai]

I think that's. Well, yeah, the $50 hot dogs going on there. I think that's really the whole point of this, to put a pin in this, guys, is that this isn't about deprivation, which is where I think, oh, gee, you thought we were going at the beginning, where, Doug, we might have raised some of OG's ire.

[Doug]

I totally did it on purpose.

[Joe Salcihai]

Nothing better than stir that pot. It is not about deprivation. It's about are are we thinking about what does this really mean to me before I buy it? And then with the Klarna thing, I think Klarna is going to be just fine. They will find a way to your point oh gee. To make a profit. But if you're seeing that you didn't used to buy groceries on Klarna and now you are or you're fine that you're you're buy now, pay later just seems man especially, especially in time when inflation could be we saw it in the last few years has been a real thing. We need to. We need to truly think about a higher joy to stuff ratio. I think that's a great place to cap our consumerism discussion. We're going to continue that with Katie on Wednesday. Can't wait to talk to Katie and dive in even more into this topic. We're also going to cover it in our newsletter, the201stacking benjamins.com201 hey guys, time for our TikTok minute. This is a part of the show where we shine a light on a TikTok creator is doing something brilliant or air quotes brilliant. Doug, what are you eating?

[Doug]

The same thing I've been eating for the last sandwich. The same sandwich, baby. So damn good for people new to the show.

[Joe Salcihai]

This is the Doug's Egg Sandwich Minute. Doug has completely bought into the joy.

[Doug]

It's a work of art. Look at that. Light crispy edge to the egg. Light crispy edge to the roll that it's on. Six pieces of bacon.

[Joe Salcihai]

Six pieces of bacon.

[OG]

Hear you getting fatter.

[Joe Salcihai]

Your voice sounds fatter than it did. Hey, five minutes ago.

[Doug]

Left ventricle isn't going to slam shut all by itself.

[Joe Salcihai]

Duh. If you're getting the angioplasty, it better be worth it.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[OG]

Doug's nickname in college was Widowmaker. At first it was because he was a really good baseball player and could just zing fastballs in there. But now it's taken on a different meaning.

[Joe Salcihai]

It's wild how that translates, how it just, you know, meaning translates. But he can keep the name Doug. Is this going to be brilliant?

[Doug]

I think it's going to suck, Joe. I just think this is going to be the stupidest TikTok minute we've ever done.

[Joe Salcihai]

Last week we were all about international investing and teaching you how to put more international into your portfolio. Scott Galloway. Professor Scott Galloway was recently on the My First Million podcast and had this to say about his portfolio and going international.

[E]

My big theme over the last six months, and I've been saying this over and over, if you're just an spy or in the NASDAQ and you think you're diversified because you're in an index fund, you're not. Because I believe the US is going to go flat for the next decade. It doesn't matter how good the company is. If the broader market is registering multiple contractions, you can't outrun it. So I have been massively transitioning my US holdings into Asian, European and also the only companies I invest in have at least 50% of their business abroad because I think the US is about to go into a 10 or 15 year down cycle. But I think the rivers are about to reverse in terms of capital flows and we're going to see a massive outflow of capital. And the market I like the most is Europe. Because if you ask anyone about Europe, they just roll their eyes and go, no, they're, it's a museum. It's over regulated. That's when you invest, is when something's been left for dead. There are really good companies in Europe trading at single digit pes. In terms of public stocks, I'm going to be almost entirely out of the US market within three or four months.

[Joe Salcihai]

So I think there's a, there's a slight amount to unpack there.

[Doug]

Wow.

[Joe Salcihai]

I love for people not watching the video. I love Og's look because that was kind of, that was, that was my look. So apparently Galloway's listened to our show OG and he's like Joe and Og and Doug all about international. I'm, I'm going, I'm gone. I believe it. Let's go. 100 international OG.

[OG]

YOLO.

[Doug]

The professor became the student of stacking. Benjamins.

[Joe Salcihai]

Stay close, Grasshopper. Galloway, stay close. First of all, making a bet on what's going to happen in any economy ever. How many times have we laughed about this where hey, good luck with that.

[OG]

I mean, I just don't, yeah, I can't spend any more time talking about this. It just people who, it's just, it's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. It's like, how can you possibly say with a straight face, here's what I believe. Anytime that you say I believe we believe our economists believe our CIO believes. Anytime you say any of that sort of stuff, I immediately just take it and crumple it up and throw it in the trash. There's, I don't give a crap what you Believe. Like, what does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Like, nothing. Like, who cares what this guy believes or that guy believes or that our economists think, so what? Big freaking deal. You're an idiot if you, you're an idiot if you have all your money in the S and P and you're an idiot if you have all your money not.

[Doug]

I don't think you're speaking your mind the way you think you're speaking your mind. Oh, gee. I think you don't believe what you just said because it's the very end that I, and I know you pretty damn well. And it's the very end thing you just said which really gets in your panties. And that's when you make these all in decisions, when it's like all or nothing. That's the issue with all of this. And I'm really surprised to hear Galloway do that. I don't care what people believe. I don't, I don't care what all the indicators point this way. Okay? Hear it. But it's just noise. That doesn't mean you, you make a decision to liquidate, you know, half your or more than half your portfolio and go all in on any one thing international or bonds or otherwise or one particular market. That's is what really pisses you off. OG well, 100.

[Joe Salcihai]

If he had just said, listen, I really think people aren't paying enough attention to international. He said it, but he went too far. And then he said, you know what? When a thing's been left for dead, that's when I really like investing in it all. That is. But going, I'm going 100%, I think the US is going to FL. Like that's when you go, what? Because then it becomes predictive.

[OG]

It's not even that, because I'm assuming Scott Galloway has an investment net worth.

[Joe Salcihai]

In the eight figures, possibly even nine.

[OG]

Yeah, I mean, okay, sure, I would agree. That would be even bigger number. But let's say it's eight figures. People will hear this and go, oh, Scott Galloway says, so I need to do that. And it's like, well, he can afford to. Because when he, you know, he doesn't literally mean. I don't care what he says. He doesn't literally mean I'm taking all of my money and buying European stocks with it or all of my money and buying. No, he doesn't. No, he's not. No, he's not. We use these words as like kind of catch all and he doesn't, he's not that dumb. And if he is, I don't know why the hell people are listening to him, but he's not. And so when he says it, he uses it in like kind of a colloquial term or a way to kind of get his point across. But then people, it's, they go, people.

[Joe Salcihai]

Act on it then. And they go, I gotta get out.

[OG]

And it's like, well, you can't do that. You don't have $50 million in the bank, numbnuts. He can make a bet like that with 30 million because if it sucks, he can end up with 20. And by the way, he has so much margin of safety with his investing that even if he's wrong, he can be wrong for 50 years and his kids can eventually be right or his grandkids could eventually, because he has so much margin of safety and time horizon that like, it's indefinite.

[Joe Salcihai]

I saw Bill Gates on one of the late night shows, this is within the last couple years, and Gates is talking to one of the late night hosts. And the guy said, well, you know what if you lost 90% of your net worth, Bill? And Bill looks at him and goes, If I lose 90% of my net worth, I'm still a billionaire.

[OG]

I still have $30 billion.

[Doug]

This is like when Ron Swanson says, give me all of the bacon and eggs you have. Hold on. What you thought you heard me say was, I would like a lot of bacon and eggs. I want all. I want all of the. Like, you can make that statement that way, but you're not putting all 50 million of your portfolio into international.

[OG]

And God bless him if he is. I mean, honestly, I hope it works out for him, but I just, I would prove me wrong. Show me the statement that says I literally put all of my money in non US positions.

[Joe Salcihai]

Even if so, the problem's going to be. And again, not for Galloway. With his net worth, he's got to decide when is it okay to come back, right? He's got to play. Don't play the game. People so love Scott Galloway. Went bridge too far there.

[OG]

Thought you're not in love with him.

[Joe Salcihai]

I thought you guys would enjoy that. What'd you say?

[OG]

You love him, but you're not in love with him.

[Joe Salcihai]

Yeah, that's right.

[Doug]

I told you it was going to be stupid.

[OG]

Yeah, it just bothers me when people with big followings say dumb things, say.

[Joe Salcihai]

Stuff that is so, so, so bad. All right, that's going to do it for today. Thanks to everybody. Let's wander out of the back porch, shall we?

[Doug]

We got a note from Jeffrey of yellow Porsche fame. Remember that?

[OG]

I did see that discussion.

[Doug]

Jeffrey says, hi, it's Jeffrey with the yellow Porsche. You spoke about Josh's future sports car that I have listed on Hagerty Marketplace. I'm writing to confirm the story is not elaboration. It's nearly a match to the really old song. It was a quote. Little old lady from Palos Verdes. Pretty sure that's not how the song goes. That drove it less than Sundays to church. I swear on my AF Academy honor. I swear on my AS Academy honor. No, that's not. I don't think that's what he means as a former cadet that it is all true. Thank you for the great show and all that you do. Sincerely, Jeffrey. P.S. a finder's fee is a possibility. Thanks for the exposure. Honestly, Air Force Academy. I just got it. Just got it. Well, thanks for your service, Jeffrey. It's a pretty beautiful place to go to an academy and hope that that gets sold so that I get that commission check.

[OG]

I mean, I don't know who's going to buy an ugly yellow one, but. Hot take, hot take, hot take. If I wanted a pea colored car. No, I don't know. Some people. Some people like the. I'm kind of torn on that. I obviously don't have a Porsche, but would you want to have like the bright candy apple red Ferrari or do you want like the black or gray one that's like, you know.

[Doug]

So here's my thought on that.

[OG]

Is that because you have a candy apple red pickup truck and I know you're all about peacocking with that thing. Like, look at, look at me.

[Doug]

That's not the peacock part about my truck because it's actually kind of a darker red. It's not candy apple, it's a darker red, but it's all the damn chrome on it, which I honestly am not a fan of. I got that truck because of the incredible deal that I got on it. And I didn't know that I was gonna end up buying it out and keeping it. And I honestly, I think about every time I drive it because I feel like I'm a drug dealer in the hood when I drive that thing. No offense to any drug dealers listening to the show right now, but you know when you see the new. Yeah, the Ferrari, the Lamborghini, and it's the brightest color possible, it's just screaming, look at me. And I don't. I don't like that. Buy the car if you love the performance of it or Whatever. But I just. It's not for me the super bright color. So I would. Not, to answer your question, I would.

[OG]

Get the gray candy apple red. You just, you know, standard color.

[Doug]

Right. But here's where it shifts for me is when it's like a classic, like Jeffrey's old yellow Porsche from the 70s that kind of might look cool because it almost makes it look more retro because, you know, that was kind of a popular color scheme for. For those back then. Or the old Lambo countaches. You know, those were in ridiculous colors and that cars just was ridiculous from day one. But then it's kind of kitschy cool if it's in a bright color.

[OG]

So 80s or 70s.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[OG]

Like Magnum PI Ferrari. You're going bright red.

[Doug]

Yes. Yeah.

[OG]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Because that's the iconic color for not.

[OG]

Going to dumb it down to, like, saltwater gray.

[Doug]

Correct.

[Joe Salcihai]

Yeah.

[OG]

But if you got a new one. Saltwater gray.

[Doug]

Yeah. I'm going subtle. Like, I've been to this party before, like Barry Sanders scoring a touchdown. I'm just here because I love the performance of the car. But yeah, if you're going to get a bright colored one, you got to park that in a garage for like.

[OG]

What if you're going to buy an airplane, should you go hot pink?

[Doug]

I would get a pink airplane.

[OG]

Good. Let's make it.

[Doug]

Sure. Well, oh, gee. Here's what we should have learned today. First, take some advice from you and Joe. Trying to something I almost never say, trying to keep up with the Joneses. Keep up with your own values. Instead, your wallet will be thicker, but you'll also avoid feeling shame and regret on your road to financial independence. Second, buy now, pay later. How about buy now, pay now if you're buying groceries and hot dogs at Costco. But the big lesson, don't get Joe's mom dreaming about all the money you're going to send us to celebrate the birth of the income tax. You think keeping up with the Joneses is bad now? It'll be keeping up with Joe's mom. I mean, how many Harleys does one grandma need? This show is the property of SB Podcasts, LLC, Copyright 2025, and is created by Joe Sal Sehi. Joe gets help from a few of our neighborhood friends. You'll find out about our awesome TV team at stackingbenjamins.com along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello.

[Joe Salcihai]

Oh, yeah.

[Doug]

And before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don't take advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And we'll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show. Sa.

[Joe Salcihai]

Welcome to the after show. This is the part of the show where I get my Internet back.

[OG]

Lucky.

[Joe Salcihai]

Thank you to the people burying the cable line outside my house. By the way, I had two different ones. I had not only the new one, but I kept the old one because they told me to keep it. They managed to cut the old one while they're reinstalling the new one, so who knows?

[OG]

And the show was going so great when he wasn't here, wasn't it, Doug?

[Joe Salcihai]

Damn it. Foiled again. I thought you two guys speaking about Doug getting. We could hear Doug getting fatter. Yelp. You guys see this? Yelp just unveiled its top 25 burger chains in the United States. I think this is important stuff. We need to cover 25. Yes, I think there will be some opinions here.

[Doug]

They're just naming all of them top 25.

[Joe Salcihai]

Well, but they're in order. I mean, we gotta. We gotta debate whether it belongs there or not. Number 25. And most of these will just. We don't need to stop in. Everyone. Number 25. Steak and shake. I've never been to a Steak and Shake. I have no idea.

[OG]

Me neither.

[Doug]

Me neither. Move on.

[Joe Salcihai]

Yeah. 24. Checkers or rallies? Never been there. No idea.

[Doug]

That's pretty deep on the list. That's actually not a bad grease ball, that burger. So, okay, move on.

[Joe Salcihai]

23, which I think is related, that I have had. A year ago, I had Carl's Jr. For the first time. I thought that burger was pretty damn good.

[Doug]

That's Hardee's. Carl's Jr. And Hardee's are the same thing in different parts of the country. And no.

[Joe Salcihai]

Yeah. Doug's like, no, not that.

[Doug]

That's 25.

[Joe Salcihai]

Number 22 is Wendy's. I have no problem with Wendy's, however, being 22.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Joe Salcihai]

Except what's above it? There's some stuff above it. I'm like, no, I think Wendy's is better. Like, as an example, Burger King is number 19. I don't think Burger King's better than Wendy's.

[Doug]

No.

[Joe Salcihai]

I will take Wendy's over Burger King all day long.

[Doug]

Yes, everything on Wendy's menu is better than everything on Burger King's menu.

[Joe Salcihai]

And guess what beats both of them. Number 17 is McDonald's how does McDonald's.

[Doug]

Right. Yeah.

[Joe Salcihai]

I don't get it.

[Doug]

Wendy's got to be in the top 10 of a national chain kick. Keep going.

[Joe Salcihai]

By the way, number 21 Fat Burger. Never had that. Never heard of it. Number 20 is White Castle. That's only at 2am that it reaches number 20 on any list.

[Doug]

Maybe they were. They might have been drunk when they did this list. Sounds like they were drunk when they did this list.

[Joe Salcihai]

18 is sonic. Now, we have way more Sonics here in the south than we had when I was in Michigan. And I like Sonic when I ate it, but I can't not have Sonic and not get massive heartburn. So not that Great. All right. 16. Smash Burger. The two times I've had Smash Burger. That's a pretty good burger. Number 16 on the list. Ever had it? Nope, never had it.

[OG]

I don't go out for burgers.

[Joe Salcihai]

15. Wahlberger. Never had a Donnie Wahlberger.

[Doug]

No.

[Joe Salcihai]

14 is Whataburger. Now Whataburgers. Oh, gee. You've had a Whataburger since you moved to the south, haven't you?

[OG]

Yeah, but it's pronounced water burger.

[Doug]

What?

[OG]

It's not What a burger.

[Doug]

I know I'm not water burger. You're not from Baltimore.

[OG]

It is. It is.

[Doug]

You put an R in there.

[OG]

It's there.

[Doug]

Okay.

[OG]

It's like a soft R. Okay.

[Doug]

You took me there. We were driving from Dallas to Texarkana.

[Joe Salcihai]

Yeah. To Whataburger.

[Doug]

And I was skeptical, and that was. That Exceeded expectations.

[Joe Salcihai]

It's a good burger.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Joe Salcihai]

What a burger is a nice burger. Number 13 is Burger Phi. Never had Burger Fi. 12 is Cookout. Never heard of Cookout.

[Doug]

That doesn't.

[Joe Salcihai]

No idea what that is.

[Doug]

They made that up.

[Joe Salcihai]

Number 11 is Jack in the Box.

[OG]

Owned by the same people that own Hardee's.

[Joe Salcihai]

Is Jack in the Box part of that same chain? If only there was a place we could look that up.

[Doug]

How are they? This is like Dead or Alive playing Dead or Alive. I think Jack in the Box is out of business. They've been out of business since 1979.

[Joe Salcihai]

We just opened a new one in Texarkana.

[Doug]

Of course.

[Joe Salcihai]

You sure sign that chain is going out of business. That chain will be out of business in the next six months because we.

[Doug]

Just dumb enough to buy these burgers. Take their cannons.

[Joe Salcihai]

Number 10 is Red Robin.

[OG]

Robin would be a good. Was a good burger. They're on their way out too.

[Doug]

Well, but hold on.

[Joe Salcihai]

They are.

[Doug]

I mean, that's. That is a fast, casual chain. That is not burger chain. That's a totally different kind of restaurant. How does that make it in here?

[OG]

I mean, Red Robin did market it as a burger place though. You could get chicken sandwiches and stuff. But it was a burger place.

[Joe Salcihai]

It was a burger place.

[Doug]

It's just. It's a sit down restaurant, but still.

[Joe Salcihai]

Sit down. Yeah.

[OG]

Number nine, Steak Shake or Shake Shack or whatever.

[Joe Salcihai]

Anyways, I didn't even know number nine until it came to Texarkana. It's. It's one of my favorite burgers in town. Muya. The Mooya burger is. I don't know if you guys have Moya. Great, great, great burger. As is the number eight. We just got a way back as well. So I sampled that a couple of weeks ago. Way back. Burger was delicious.

[Doug]

What I like about this list is my undoubtedly number one fast food burger is still in the running here.

[Joe Salcihai]

For number one, it's like March Madness.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Joe Salcihai]

And Doug's. Doug's number one is still in it. Number seven I like, but I think the price tag is what usually takes me out. Five guys. Five guys is a really good burner. But when I've got to do a down payment on my. Or refinance my house.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Joe Salcihai]

To buy five guys. I don't get it. Number six is coming to txk, by the way. Freddy's. When I had Freddy's, which was in Missouri. Fine, Fine, Fine burger chain. It's sad how much I know about all these different. Wow. Yeah.

[Doug]

You drive too much.

[OG]

Come on. Hot. Now there are still two on this list.

[Joe Salcihai]

I remember they're coming back OG when we got hot now in Kalamazoo growing up, and I get this stack of like six cheeseburgers, right. For roughly 87 cents for all six of them.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Joe Salcihai]

And my mom is riding with me and she looks at me and the look at her face at the time, I didn't understand. And now I get it because my mom's like, someday you're gonna remember this moment. You're not gonna be able to do that. I'm like, who cares? Let's just unwrap these babies. And I'm shoveling those things in. Didn't gain a pound. Now I look at a sack of. But now I look at one half of a hamburger and I gain weight. There's still two on this list I've never heard of. Including number five. So, Doug, yours is still in the running.

[Doug]

Yeah, baby.

[Joe Salcihai]

All right. Top five. Islands. Have you guys heard of islands?

[Doug]

Yeah, they're these things out in big bodies of water. Joe. Oh, yeah.

[Joe Salcihai]

And there's some dude named Pierre who's just flipping hammers on the beach when you go to the. I have no idea. Number four. This might be Doug's. Number four is Culver's.

[Doug]

It is mine. And I'm. I definitely am pissed. I was looking for a more 12 word than that, but it's just. That's what it is. I'm pissed that it's four, but at least it's top five. It really should be one or two, but you go keep.

[Joe Salcihai]

By the way, Rubberger didn't make this list. And Rupert speaking your lies in and around Texas. It's funny, we were talking about this before we. Before we went on arrows talk about this with Cheryl, and we were like, the fun of this list is debating how stupid the list is. Whenever you get these, you're like, no, no, no, no, no. Number three is Shake Shack.

[Doug]

Yeah. Hard.

[Joe Salcihai]

No, I like Shake Shack.

[Doug]

Shake Shack's fine. I've had it. But it is so incredibly overrated and overpriced at best. That should be in the teens.

[Joe Salcihai]

Yeah. Way back in Muya on this list I thought were better. Five guys is better than Shake Shack. Number two. I've also never heard of the habit. Burger Grill. The Habit.

[Doug]

Nope.

[Joe Salcihai]

Number one. You guys can predict what's. Come on, what's the chain that we haven't said yet? In and out. Number one.

[Doug]

Oh, yeah. It's not better than Culver's. I actually did a direct comparison when I was in Arizona.

[Joe Salcihai]

You went got one of each.

[Doug]

I got one of each. I did. And there is no comparison between those two burgers. But Culver's is so significantly better than it. Look In N out to find burger deserves to be in the top five, but it is not the number one burger.

[Joe Salcihai]

What I like about In n Out is not the burger by itself because actually I like a five guys burger better. But in and out is a third of the price.

[Doug]

Well, there's that.

[Joe Salcihai]

So for me, in n out is price. You know, the value proposition for what I get.

[Doug]

Okay.

[Joe Salcihai]

I really like.

[Doug]

I actually can't argue with the last.

[OG]

Time we went to In n Out, it was like $8 for a burger.

[Joe Salcihai]

Was it really?

[Doug]

No, no.

[OG]

I'll take a picture of it.

[Joe Salcihai]

Yeah. Didn't pay that in Round Rock.

[Doug]

I. I agree. No, I. I mean, if I don't know what the basis was for these rankings, but if somehow value factors in, I would have to agree that that in and out combined with, you know, the burger combined with the price but.

[Joe Salcihai]

Still, Shake Shack is not a cheap burger, Doug. And it's number three that's wrong.

[Doug]

No, that Shake Shacks, I think at least as much as five guys, if I'm not mistaken. My. My recollection is. But yeah, let us know.

[Joe Salcihai]

Stackers. I want to hear your righteous indignation about this list.

[Doug]

Of all the really important things we talked about on today's episode, I guarantee you this is the thing that's going to get talked about the most in the basement. Who cares about consumerism and international funds and.