What 2025 Taught Us About Money (And What Actually Matters for 2026) SB1776

Summary

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Episode Summary: What 2025 Taught Us About Money (And What Actually Matters for 2026) – SB1776

Podcast: The Stacking Benjamins Show
Host(s): Joe Saul-Sehy ("Joe"), OG
Roundtable Contributors: Paula Pant (Afford Anything), Jesse Kramer (Personal Finance for Long-term Investors)
Date: December 19, 2025

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Overview

In this year-end roundtable, the Stacking Benjamins team gathers in Joe's mom’s basement to review 2025's biggest money lessons and discuss what actually matters for 2026. Through their signature blend of humor and actionable advice, Joe, OG, Paula, and Jesse reflect on global trends (like AI) as well as personal developments, challenging listeners to embrace change, stay diversified, and not lose sight of what truly counts.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. AI’s Big Leap and It's Effect on Jobs and Life

• AI and the Workforce
  • Paula highlights the expansion of AI into more jobs than was anticipated, emphasizing the importance of “diversifying your skill set at work and prioritizing the human connection—things that AI cannot replicate” (08:47).
  • OG and Jesse agree: AI brings both fear and excitement, but advancements have always disrupted industries. The lesson? Adapt and focus on human-only strengths.
  • OG quips, “I don’t have any fear of AI except for the downfall of all mankind and just about everything everywhere. So other than that, I think it’s going to be okay.” (10:41)
• AI’s Limits and ‘Hallucinations’
  • The group warns about relying on LLMs for legal, medical, or financial advice as AI can confidently give wrong answers (“hallucinate”).
  • Paula jokes: “AI can sometimes give outputs that seem so confident and seem so well formed that you forget that it might be hallucinating.” (14:38)
  • OG shares an anecdote about AI giving outdated info: “It’s an unreliable narrator who has hallucinations that’s been in a coma for 12 months.” (16:16)
  • Joe notes the “jagged edge” of AI—knowing where it can and cannot help is more important than ever.
  • Key Lesson: AI is a starting point, not an ending point; validate important information elsewhere.

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2. Diversification, Volatility, and Staying the Course

• International and non-Tech Investing
  • OG: Despite US tech’s continued dominance, 2025 saw international markets outperforming. “Diversification still matters… Even though Nvidia is kicking everybody’s butt right now, we should still rebalance.” (19:23)
  • Jesse echoes: “The hardest times to make an investment decision also, in hindsight, end up being the best times…Reversion to the mean is an iron law of investing.” (21:16)
• Crypto & Volatility
  • Paula on crypto: “The story with crypto this year was a story of volatility…You can confirmation bias that in either direction… but the true story is simply one of volatility.” (22:42)
• Cash as an Asset Class?
  • Joe and OG discuss whether 2026 will require bigger cash reserves due to AI risks/job insecurity. OG responds, “No, I don’t think [the need for cash] is any different than any other period of time…If you have some personal knowledge [of layoffs], then yeah, squirrel away a little bit.” (23:57)
  • Don’t time or react excessively—maintain the right emergency fund, but don’t pile up cash for vague doom.
• Reacting to Market Events vs. Staying Passive
  • Jesse recounts the “tariff tantrum,” a 20% drop-and-rebound over mere weeks, reminding long-term investors: “It was a perfect little microcosm... such a sharp decline…and then such a sharp rally. What a perfect little microcosm of some of the tribulations that long term investors have to suffer through…” (26:17)
  • Paula: “Dollar-cost averaging and not paying attention to the headlines is the strategy that over time has proven more times than not to work...In almost anything else, effort and reward go in lockstep; investing is one of those extremely rare fields where …that simply isn’t the case.” (28:49)
  • OG’s analogy: Don’t go to the bar if you’re quitting drinking, and don’t check your portfolio daily if you want to avoid emotional investing mistakes.
  • Key Lesson: Remove the temptation and automate your investments. Progress comes from consistency, not active fiddling.

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3. Personal Financial Planning: Expect Change—Always

• Dynamic Planning & Unexpected Policy Shifts
  • Jesse: “Financial plans need to be dynamic…your financial plan … is a dynamic thing, and sometimes that change is triggered by government policy.” (49:07)
  • OG: Don’t treat plans as permanent. The smartest approach is, "point the boat in the right direction and start rowing...then reevaluate" as life happens (50:33).
  • Paula on Health Insurance: “Even if you were carefully watching [the news], that still would not give you enough time to save up the cost differential...I think it’s having a margin of error within your budget so that you can account for the unexpected.” (53:29)
• Housing Market & Interest Rates
  • Paula: Change can be slow. “This is actually in some ways the opposite...People were hoping for bigger interest rate declines this year. The Fed didn’t start lowering rates until relatively late…” (54:47)
  • Jesse: “You might sit and wait for mortgage rates to be lowered…but hope is not a plan.” (55:41)
  • On 50-year mortgages: OG is adamant—bad idea! He calls out “FOMO” and the danger of comparing your beginnings to others’ middles, noting that previous generations all felt ‘priced out’ in their twenties (57:00ff).

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4. What Actually Matters: Family, Milestones, and Presence

• OG shares a personal lesson after celebrating his son’s high school graduation:
  • “If you have kids and you’re in the middle of the suck...this ends, and it ends with just an explosive ending...Embrace the suck, because this stuff ends, and it ends viciously...Nothing better than hanging out with the people that you care most about...Tomorrow's not promised everybody.” (60:46)
  • Joe’s reflection: “Saying ‘I’ll be happy when these other conditions happen’...is a mistake. Embrace where you are.” (63:49)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Paula Pant on AI’s limits:
  “AI can sometimes give outputs that seem so confident and seem so well formed that you forget that it might be hallucinating.” (14:38)

• OG, tongue-in-cheek:
  “I don’t have any fear of AI except for the downfall of all mankind and just about everything everywhere. So other than that, I think it’s going to be okay.” (10:41)

• On Market Timing:
  “More people lose money preparing for bear markets than actually in bear markets, you know, so...I wouldn’t have any extra cash just because stock market’s at an all time high and politics are crazy and the world economy is…” (24:25, OG quoting Peter Lynch)

• On Emotional Investing:
  “You can’t get better at this by doing more of it. You get better by literally going into a coma and having your dollar cost average work.” (31:00, OG)

• Jesse, on rapid rebounds:
  “Nowadays maybe we’re all dopamined up so much that six weeks of negative stock performance really hits us.” (27:54)

• OG on family milestones:
  “Even though it kind of. You feel like it might suck a little bit, embrace the suck, because this stuff ends, and it ends viciously.” (60:46)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |:-------------:|:-----------------------------------------------------| | 08:47 | Paula introduces AI as 2025’s defining financial story | | 10:41 | OG on AI—fear vs. excitement | | 14:38 | Paula and group discuss AI “hallucinations” | | 19:23 | OG on 2025: “Diversification still matters” | | 21:16 | Jesse on mean reversion & investing discipline | | 22:42 | Paula: 2025’s lesson is crypto volatility | | 23:57 | OG on cash and market panic | | 26:17 | Jesse on the “tariff tantrum”—market drop & rally | | 28:49 | Paula: Dollar-cost averaging beats market timing | | 31:00 | OG: “Don’t try to react to every headline!” | | 49:07 | Jesse: “Financial plans need to be dynamic” | | 53:29 | Paula: Budget for the unexpected, not the headlines | | 54:47 | Paula: Change can be slow—housing & rates in 2025 | | 55:41 | Jesse: Hope is not a plan in financial decisions | | 57:00 | OG on 50-year mortgages & generational comparison | | 60:46 | OG’s personal milestone: Make time for what matters | | 63:49 | Joe: “I’ll be happy when” is a trap—embrace now |

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Final Takeaways

• Embrace and adapt to AI—but don’t overestimate its infallibility.
• Stay diversified; the ‘sure thing’ rarely lasts.
• Volatility and sudden events are part of long-term investing—automate and don’t obsess!
• Financial and life plans are dynamic—leave margin and adjust as needed.
• Don’t let ‘hope’ replace a real plan; build conservatism into big decisions.
• Be present for milestones—life changes fast, and moments with family and friends matter most.

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Hosts & Contributors:

• Joe Saul-Sehy (Stacking Benjamins)
• OG
• Paula Pant (Afford Anything)
• Jesse Kramer (Personal Finance for Long-term Investors)

Packed with laughs, honest reflections, and sound financial lessons, this episode is a must-listen for anyone wanting to learn from the past year—and focus on what really counts for the future.

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Transcript

[A]

Kevin Harlan here tonight. The NBA on Prime crew is back with another thrilling NBA doubleheader. It tips off with Tyrese Maxey and the Sixers taking on Jalen Brunson and the Knicks at the Garden. Then SGA and the Champion Thunder. Visit Anthony Edwards and the Timberwolves. If you're not a Prime member, just sign up for a free 30 day trial. The Sixers and Knicks. The Thunder and Timberwolves coverage starts tonight at 6:30pm Eastern only on Prime. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com amazonprime for details.

[B]

Two hours ago, Kyle arrived at the bar. Hey, what's everyone drinking?

[C]

Thirty minutes ago, Kyle got his friends.

[B]

Another round of drinks.

[C]

Cheers.

[B]

Five minutes ago, Kyle decided to drive home drunk. A minute ago, a law enforcement officer.

[C]

Pulled up behind Kyle. Sir, have you been drinking? Tonight, a chain of events that began two hours ago is about to change Kyle's whole world. Drive sober or get pulled over.

[B]

Paid for by Nitza. Can I refill your eggnog for you? Get you something to eat? Drive you out to the middle of nowhere? Leave you for dead? No, I'm doing just fine.

[D]

CL.

[E]

Live from the basement of the YouTube headquarters, it's the Stacking Benjamin Show. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And as we wind down 2025, it's important to ask, what could we have learned from the events of this year? Today, we'll ask that question of our roundtable contributors so you can manage your money better next year by learning from history. And now a guy who's wrapped up all the holiday cheer and placed it right into today's podcast. It's Jo Sal CI.

[C]

And of course it's the one. Of course it's the one that the fewest number of people are going are going to hear. Hey there, stackers. Happy holiday season. Happy Hanukkah. We're right in the middle of it. Happy pre. Happy whatever you're doing this holiday season. So happy to be here with you with one of my favorite episodes of the year, which is, as Doug so succinctly said, 2025 lessons for a better 2026. Now, if you had interpreted that as 2025 lessons, they're just lessons from 2025. So to be clear there, but we have a group of roundtable participants who are helping us say goodbye to 2025. And let's start off with the gentleman across the card table from me, Mr. OG is here. How are you, man?

[B]

I'm full of Christmas joy.

[C]

Obviously you are absolutely full of Christmas joy because of the fact, as you.

[B]

Can tell in my demeanor. Glowing, glowing commentary.

[C]

Well, seeing how it is the day before your birthday.

[B]

It is not the day before my birthday. But that's cool.

[E]

It's four days before his birthday.

[C]

Four days before your birthday.

[B]

It's not four days before my birthday either, but you guys are good. It's. You're in the ballpark and that's all that counts.

[C]

Is it two days before.

[B]

I'm not going to tell you. It's going to be a surprise. Has it already happened?

[C]

Have you. Have you stopped?

[B]

Or has it still yet to happen? That is the question. What's the over under on OG's birthday? I picked December 19th.

[C]

This is what happens when a bunch of dudes decide to figure out, like, somebody else's birthday. Like I can we figure out our own birthday?

[B]

All I know is that I could have 10 more birthdays and still not catch you guys. So that's all that matters.

[C]

Somebody who it feels like it's our birthday every time we get to spend a podcast with her. Paula Pant is here.

[F]

Well, you know, Once we have OG's birthday, we'll be that much closer to stealing his identity. I'm just gonna need your mother's maiden name, last four digits of your social.

[B]

Interestingly enough, it's Snuffleupagus.

[C]

Og, for today's trivia question, what was the name of your elementary school?

[B]

And the last four of my social are. Yeah, six, seven. Six.

[E]

Your porn name is your childhood pet's name and the street you grew up on. Go.

[C]

And how are we making all the jokes without this guy here?

[B]

That's a really good porn name. Bosco McKinley.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

Is that not awesome? That is good.

[C]

And the Bosco McKinley of this podcast is here. My new.

[B]

My new Twitter handle. Find me at Bosco McKinley and subscribe to my only channel.

[C]

Jesse Kramer.

[D]

Call me Bosco. Right?

[C]

I mean, come on, just call me Bosco. What would that make your poor name, Jesse?

[D]

What would it. Harry Longwood.

[B]

No, it's not my dog's name.

[D]

And then the street I grew up on, Harry Longwood.

[C]

That is. There's no way.

[B]

That's.

[D]

Sorry. I'm sorry, Harold. Longwood Avenue, if we're being. Longwood Avenue would be my last name.

[C]

But to you it's Harold.

[B]

Yes, correct. Correct, Mr. Longwood.

[C]

Well, guys, we got a great show today because as you can see, we are fired up.

[B]

Any better than that? Just so everybody knows, it is our.

[C]

Last roundtable of 2025. We always have a tradition here at Stacky Benjamin's in mom's basement. We look back on the year we go. What were some of the events, either personal events or events that were global, Maybe events just in the city where each of our contributors lived, whatever it might be. And how can our stackers all learn from those events? So that's what we're going to cover today. So grab a piece of paper, think about whatever your events are. If you're hanging out with us on YouTube today, give us some of your events as well. We'd love to cover as many as we can do in the next hour at the halfway point because of the fact that Mr. Jesse Kramer is the winner of our year long trivia competition between our three contributors. You know what we're doing today? We are involving our YouTube audience in today's trivia question. So we're going to ask everyone a question, our contributors a question and we're going to have one of our YouTube stackers that each of our contributors will pick and they'll play for a chance to win a huge prize. A huge prize, Doug, that we will. We'll share later. But first we have a couple sponsors who help us keep on keeping on. We're going to hear from them and then Paula, Og and Jesse are going to dive into the events of 2025 that we can learn from and maybe have a better 2026 because of it. This message is sponsored by Navy Federal Credit Union. As the holiday season rolls around, we know that you strive to do everything you can to bring cheer and joy to your loved ones. And as a credit union dedicated to serving all veterans, active duty and their families, we understand that every little bit counts. That's why for a limited time, you could earn a $250 cash bonus when you spend $2,500 with Navy Federal's Cash Rewards and Cash Rewards plus cards in the first 90 days. Of course, Stackers, this is part of a big financial plan, right? Don't get yourself into debt. Make sure that you are spending and saving with a plan. But you know what? The giving doesn't stop there. You could also earn up to 2.2percent unlimited cash back with these cards. So saving up for whatever the season brings just got a little easier. Give joy, get joy. Join now@navy federal.org Navy Federal Credit Union Our members are the mission. Navy Federal is insured by NCUA. Visit navy federal.org cash rewards for details. Cash back terms and conditions apply. Offer ends January 1, 2026. Think you're on track for retirement? Find out with Bolden, the tool that calculates your personalized retirement path. You'll see exactly when you can retire, how your savings stack up, and what.

[B]

Changes make the biggest difference.

[C]

It's free. To start, visit go.bolden.complan and see your future clearly. All right, let's start off with. Let's go to Paula. Let's go. Ladies first. So, Paula, either from your own experience or from just the news, what's an event in 2025 that maybe we can all learn from?

[F]

I think one of the major stories of 2025 is seeing how AI plays played a bigger and bigger role in the world and in doing so, encroached upon many more jobs in a more threatening way than a lot of people had, I think, anticipated, even as compared to what people were thinking in 2023 or 2024. Diversifying your skill set at work and prioritizing the human connection, human relationships, things that a machine cannot or AI cannot replicate. I think that is a major lesson of this past year.

[C]

It's funny, Paula, because I made a list and I had to fold it over so I don't show everybody on YouTube. My second one, but my first one, if you can read my sloppy handwriting, says AI advancements. That was like the top of my list, too, because that truly was a huge thing this year that I think. Jesse, there's a bunch of lessons there even beyond what Paul was talking about.

[D]

I don't know if I'm nervous or more nervous or more excited about all the changes that AI is bringing to the workplace. Just a second. Paul's thoughts. I mean, certain things that we all do at work are likely going to become so much easier that you could just say, oh, AI is going to replace me in that aspect of what I do. So I've heard a lot of people talking about identifying those things that are either unique to us or just uniquely human and trying to double down or just make sure that we are bringing value to the workplace in those areas and then, you know, kind of adopting AI where we can just to become more efficient in. In the other areas.

[C]

Yeah. It's funny because this was. It's been a lesson with any advancement OG that I know. You and I have gotten a lot of coaching from this group called strategic coach. And everybody's always afraid of the next thing, Right? This is clearly something where a lot of people have lost their jobs. You on board with fear and excitement or just excitement?

[B]

I don't have any fear of AI except for the downfall of all mankind and just about everything Everywhere. So other than that, I think it's going to be okay.

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

If you don't mind planes dropping out of the sky, I'm sure it's fine.

[B]

As long as we learn to teleport and we can come back from the future to shut down Skynet before it takes over and launches the nukes. That would be fantastic. I mean, this is not a new thing. There has been advancement in the job market and industrial and medical and everything since the beginning of time. Many, many, many years ago. Used to just take a piece of metal and dig in the ground and plant your own stuff and then you hooked it up to a bunch of animals and then they did it. And then you got rid of the animals and you had tractors that did it. And, you know, now we have faster, bigger tractors that do it and now we can. This has been going on since the beginning of time. Everybody tries to improve the efficiency of different things.

[D]

I think I remember, yeah, Episode one. You guys were talking about using the wheel, right?

[B]

Well, they were.

[D]

How to use the wheel in your day job.

[B]

They started it. They were there when it was created. I was kind of a second generation wheel.

[C]

Well, I apologize. I could take a second to rename today's podcast Jesse's last appearance.

[B]

Yes, it's been very nice knowing you, Mr. Kramer. And so people poo poo this and say like, oh, it's going to take jobs. It's like, well, but that's what everything has been trying to do since the beginning of time. If you own a business and you have the opportunity to make more widgets for a lower price, you want to figure out how to do that. Whether that's improving the efficiency of the people who make the widgets or if it's investing in a machine. Look at what McDonald's. I went to McDonald's a couple of weeks ago, a month ago, for the first time in a long time. There was nothing there. It was like a little counter. There was no people. There was one person who would like go to the back and get the bag and put it up front. There wasn't like the whole cadre of people. You went in, you ordered on a screen and you stood there and somebody would walk up with a bag and go, 81, and you'd grab it and walk away. I don't know how the food was being made. I don't know what happened there. I didn't probably save any money, But I bet McDonald's is making some more money doing it. And if you're a shareholder of McDonald's you're happy that they're doing that because you're going to live in more profit. So there's a balance obviously between people's jobs and that sort of stuff. But if you're stuck in that or if you're at the spot where you're like, oh crap, my job might go away, you should probably get after it.

[C]

Which of the consulting companies this year, this is another related headline, said publicly about how much money they were able to save by using AI and then their clients started coming to them going, well, we hired you, so really, shouldn't we be the ones getting the savings? I don't remember which, which company that was. Was it McKinsey?

[B]

I don't know.

[E]

I thought I remember KPMG, but I.

[C]

I, yeah, it could have been KPMG.

[E]

But it was, it was one of.

[C]

The bigger ones, but I thought that was great. The consultants needed to shut. Oh man, not as much.

[B]

Look at how easy my job is now with AI. I don't have to like do anything.

[E]

I just paid $225 an hour for that kid who just graduated from college last week and all he did was use chatgpt.

[C]

US Aussie is hanging out with us and said they had the same experience OG at a movie theater where they're there now, you know, just everything mechanized. Paula Another thing that I saw this year, I was surprised to see how many different ways people used AI. Some incredibly creatively that we would have never thought about. But other ways I think that are just a huge mistake because I get the feeling a lot of people using AI don't understand how large language models even work. And so they're asking AI to do a ton of stuff and coming out with these horrible results because they really don't get what's behind the machine.

[F]

Well, AI can sometimes give outputs that seem so confident and seem so well formed that you forget that it might be hallucinating, just like Doug might be hallucinating.

[C]

Wait, is that Doug you're hallucinating or you got results where it was hallucinating?

[E]

No, no, that's pretty much how I've lived my whole adult life, which is just sound like you know what you're talking about. Everything's kind of foggy all the time anyways. But if you can just put up.

[C]

A good front, be very confident about it.

[F]

Yeah, it's important to have those occasional reminders like don't get legal advice from AI, don't get medical advice from AI. You can try to have some educational conversations with it. But know that this is a. What's the word for a narrator? You're not irrelevant, Morgan Freeman.

[E]

It's the unreliable, Unreliable.

[F]

Unreliable, unreliable. Know that it's an unreliable narrator prone to hallucination.

[C]

Well, and we had Robert Farrington on earlier this year. Robert was talking about how often it gives bad financial advice, because when it's looking at the world of personal finance, it's going to look at the web and go, okay, 95% of the answers are X. And if something just changed last week, you're going to get the wrong answer. I know we did. During Black Friday week, we had guests telling us that people were trying to use AI to find Black Friday deals.

[D]

And.

[C]

And maybe you can create a prompt that gets you there. But the chance that you're going to hallucinate on that, trying to find a deal that is only for a couple days is going to be so, like, you're asking it to make mistakes.

[B]

My favorite was because I put AI on here, too. I tried to cheat because I don't like doing homework. And I was like, I'll just put this into ChatGPT. But I was thinking about it, and I thought, okay, well, what are the themes of 2025? And then I said, when is your last updated narrative, like, memory? Like, where are you current to? It was like, oh, I can talk about anything till October of 2024. Like, oh, hell, you're way off, bro. It's an unreliable narrator who has hallucinations that's been in a coma for 12 months. Yeah, there's nothing good about. Like, you can't use contemporary information like.

[F]

The Legend of Sleepy. It's a Rip Van Winkle. Exactly. It's like Rip Van Winkle hallucinating.

[C]

Well, and I'm wondering, too. I mean, look at the number of things we saw in the news about AI just getting it wrong. Paula, you brought up don't ask it for legal advice. I mean, there was a famous headline about that legal team that clearly used ChatGPT or one of the AI systems, and it was making up case law. Like, it just. It just made up all this stuff that didn't even exist. In fact, I was wondering, OG, if when you looked up ChatGPT, if it said, number one, was AI, like, super confident for AI.

[B]

I didn't put it in there because the first. My first question was, where are you current till? Yeah, but I went to a couple of them, and they're all like, late 2024. So anything that's happened literally this year is not current in terms of its information. I mentioned in the preamble to this that I got selected for tickets for Banana Ball at Kyle Field.

[C]

Excellent.

[B]

So I get to try to get some tickets. I got selected to try to get some tickets. Maybe I'm over excited.

[C]

It used to be you might get tickets. Now you might get tickets.

[B]

Now I might get to buy tickets.

[C]

Yeah, right.

[B]

But when I put it in Google because I was like, is this a real email or whatever, it literally. You know how Google has an AI summary? It literally was like, there is no confirmed information about the Bananas playing at Kyle Field and College Station anytime in the future. And I'm like, the link above, it was from Texas A and M's athletic department that said, great news. Banana Ball at Kyle Field, May 2, 2026. Yeah, like Google hadn't even got to that yet. It hadn't indexed it enough or there hadn't been enough searches or however the hell that works behind the scenes to make that a relevant outcome. Google still thinks there's nothing. So my lesson for AI is it's a starting point, not an ending point.

[C]

I think that's great advice. I subscribed to Masterclass and I took the masterclass on this. It was really good. So if you have Masterclass, take the masterclass. Because the thing I talk about, OG is nowhere. The. They call it the jagged edge. The more I've used AI, which is now a bunch in 2025, it's amazing how much more, how much I've used it this year. You truly know when you hear some of the searches people are doing, some of the prompts they're using, you're like, oh, you're asking it to be wrong. There is no way that that's going to work well for you. Let's keep you here, OG and hear what your big event of 2025 might be that can help us with a better 2026.

[B]

Mine was AI. Do I have to have more?

[C]

And that's it. Everybody on to Jesse and scene.

[B]

So I've got a personal one that I'm going to use that one last. Got two, tied for two. There's an easy one. I think they're both easy layups. I'm going to say diversification still matters from an investment standpoint at the beginning of the year. And I would say even for the last probably 10 years, it's been really hard for an investor to rebalance into areas outside of large US Tech. Whether you mean that as the S and P, your S and P fund or whatever, but specifically an international and emerging market going like, hey, this is an area of the economy that we still should participate in. And even though Nvidia is kicking everybody's butt right now, we should still rebalance. And at least as of when we're recording this, International has beaten the stocks off of the US Market. And the beginning of the year, if you would have said, hey, I got a great idea, let's put all our money in international or let's up our international allocation. People look at you like you had three heads or I got a bonus. I think I want to put this on the market. What should I do? Let's put 30% international. Be like, yeah, no, I don't think so. I have 30% Nvidia call options 200 for November of 2025. Maybe let's do that. I think is just another great example in conjunction with the other layup that I'm sure somebody's going to have of diversification matters. And time in the market is the most important thing, so keep it simple.

[C]

Jesse, you talk about investing quite a bit and we had to do two shows this year reminding people not to sell off your international. Like when you start seeing at the end of 2024, is international dead forever? Yeah, that to me represents a buying opportunity in whatever the dead asset class might be.

[D]

Yeah, I mean it is just funny. I was just talking to someone today about sometimes the, the hardest times to make an investment decision also in hindsight end up being the best times to have made a particular investment decision. And this was in reference to the tariff tantrum, which maybe we can come back to later. But yeah, there are so many times where, I mean, John Bogle would say that an iron law of investing is reversion to the mean, which would mean that when a particular asset class is kind of like at its worst, at its ugliest, at the time when you'd think yourself, ugh, like why would I ever want to buy that thing? That's probably about the same time as when it's going to start reverting back to its long term average and end up being an outperformer in the future years. And vice versa can be true too, which is that when certain stocks or asset classes or whatever are at their sexiest, that might be the time when they're also overvalued and are about to revert back down to their long term average. So, you know, I totally support everything OG just said about maintaining a diversified portfolio is accepting the fact that at any given time some of the things you own are going to be losers. And yet when you zoom out to the long run, it's one of, if not the smartest, way to approach your investing.

[C]

Paula, you know, at the end of 2024, we had the international thing that we just talked about, but on the other side, you covered crypto this year. Look at the rundown in bitcoin. I mean, all the people going, just load up, back the truck up, and this thing's going to the moon.

[F]

Yeah. And I mean, really, the story with crypto this year was a story of volatility. Like, we saw huge gains. And then. And then you're like, man, why didn't I short it? I mean, you can confirmation bias that in either direction, depending on where you stand on crypto. And the fact that you can confirmation bias it no matter where you stand shows that the true story is simply one of volatility. And I think that's Another lesson of 2025 is like, volatile asset classes are, are going to stay volatile. And often when a volatile asset class is really skyrocketing, it's tempting to believe that it is safer than it actually is, because you want to believe in the optimistic narrative.

[C]

All these numbers OG on increasing debt in the country. And we just covered AI and, you know, innovations. Julie here talking about the innovations like we talked about earlier with movie theaters and companies and all kinds of AI business reforms that have happened, all of that. Does that mean that 2026 also means cash is an asset class more important than ever?

[B]

I mean, for what?

[C]

Just because you don't know if you're going to lose your job, you don't know what's coming around the next corner?

[B]

I mean, no, I don't think it's any different than any other period of time. Why would you all of a sudden start suddenly piling up cash because you have a feeling that the market's going to take a crap? I mean, listen, if you think that you're going to lose your job and you've got some pretty good indications that that's the case, then, yeah, you probably should scroll away a little bit.

[C]

So you're not saying that cash isn't important, you're just saying there's no difference this year versus other years. I mean, you can keep your emergency fund.

[B]

If I gave you the bullet headlines of Q4, 2011, and said, based on this, like, how do you feel about the beginning parts of 2012? You'd be like, oh, crap, economy's going to crap. The world's going to hell in a hand basket. We got all this crazy going on, the politicians are nuts, the stock market's stupid high, it's at an all time high, you know, probably going to crash. You'd say that every time. So if you have some personal knowledge around something, right. My company is going through massive layoffs at this level and below, and I'm at that level and I'm a middle of the road employee. Should I have more cash? Yeah, you probably should, like if that's where you are. Right. But if it's like I feel that the economy is going to take a crap in the next year, I mean, it might. And somebody said something about confirmation bias, it may come true and you'd be like, I knew it. But that doesn't make it true. That doesn't make. It's going to happen. And if you do that all the time, the downside of this is that every single time you think that you know something, you're going to do the thing that costs you more in the long run, you know, what was it Peter Lynch's favorite thing of? You know, more people lose money preparing for bear markets than actually in bear markets, you know, so it's going to happen. That's part of the deal. So I wouldn't have any extra cash just because stock market's at an all time high and politics are crazy and the world economy is.

[C]

You know, it's funny, I saw a headline recently from the late 1800s and somebody said that if you took out the names, it looks, you know, and.

[B]

The President shot, you know, America to go to war.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Uprising in the West.

[C]

It's like so many reasons, right. The difference was there were no references to cars yet. Jesse, let's have yours. What's a good lesson from 2025 that could help us with a better 2026?

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

So the one that I put down, that's not AI related, let's talk about the tariff tantrum, because I think there it is and maybe it's, it's going back to, to OG and one of the big lessons coming out of it was diversification. But I just thought to myself, especially kind of living through it, hearing stories from stackers and clients and stuff like that. It was such an interesting time, you know, such a sharp decline over a few weeks and the narrative out there was so bad and then such a sharp rally. And really the rally has more or less continued up until this recording, less the last couple of weeks or something like that. But it was just, what a perfect little microcosm of some of the tribulations that long term investors have to suffer through in order to eventually get that reward that they're all seeking.

[C]

And just Jesse, for our stackers that didn't pay attention to the stock market.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

That close.

[B]

For the 11 people who didn't know.

[C]

It went down very, very quickly.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And everybody said it was going to be the end of the world and this is it. The game is up. The rest of the year is going to suck.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And how long did it take it before it started rebounding? 2 and a half weeks.

[D]

I mean for what it's worth, from the top in mid February to the very bottom in April, it was something like six weeks and it was almost a 20% drop.

[C]

Sure.

[D]

To recover, it took about another six weeks, maybe eight weeks to recover back to a new all time high. But then if you zoom in even further, right around the moment when President Trump made his tariff announcement, that was something like, you know, a 10% drop, 12% drop in two days, something like that. And we had a couple days in there, if you remember, that were like an 8% down day and then a 7% update.

[C]

Right.

[D]

So it was super volatile. Right. Don't, don't get me wrong. But at the same time I wasn't invested myself. You guys were. And you have memories of bear markets that lasted more than a year. Right. And it's just interesting that like nowadays maybe we're all dopamined up so much that six weeks of negative stock performance really hits us. Whereas I think we ought to remind ourselves that it could last much longer in the future.

[C]

Is that like the third old guy reference there, Jesse?

[D]

Might have been the fourth. Your memory might be failing you.

[E]

You teed it up for him, Joe.

[C]

Dude's a legend. Just what strikes me, Paula, is if you did nothing, let's say you're saving to your 401k and your dollar cost averaging into your exchange traded funds or mutual funds. You did nothing. You actually made money on this deal because you just kept automatically putting money in. You actually made money while other people were panicking.

[F]

Exactly. And that is a story that repeats over and over and over. Right. We could have said the same thing five years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago. $ cost averaging and not paying attention to the headlines is the strategy that over time has proven more times than not to work as compared to market timing. I think it's counterintuitive because in almost any other field effort tends to be commensurate with reward in athletics or in pursuing any.

[C]

Anything advancing in business.

[F]

Yeah, growing a Business, learning how to play chess, cooking, learning how to cook in almost anything else. Effort, reward, go in lockstep. And investing is one of those extremely rare fields where for the average investor, the average retail investor, that simply isn't the case.

[C]

There's two ways to look at this og and I'm wondering which one you ascribe to. Number one is just don't care, don't know, Keep investing. Or number two is follow it closely so you can see the machinery running, but have the perseverance to not do anything. Which one's better, Knowing and not moving, or just don't pay any attention?

[B]

I think that for 99% of the people, the battle that you don't have to fight is the best battle. And using Jesse's example of the tariffs, if you looked at your March 31 statement from your custodian and then you looked at. Never mind your April 1st or May 1st, June1. Yeah, once a quarter, you would look at that and go, oh, okay, good quarter. That's what that. That's what your reaction would have been. You would have been like, oh, okay, yeah, cool. It would have been so blase. If you looked at your statement on March 31, and then April 30, you would have went, kind of a crappy month, you know, not the end of the world, but whatever. And I think that for most people, the default action is to try to do something with their money.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, you just have to look at every single solitary headline in all of America all the time says the same thing in just different words. It says, how do I react to. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Oh, there's tariffs. How do I react to tariffs? Oh, there are no tariffs. How do I react to. There are no tariffs. There is a peace deal in such and such a place. How do I react to it? Oh, the dollar is down in value. How do I react to it?

[D]

Oh, gold is up.

[B]

How do I react to it? Bitcoin has gone down 30% in three months. How do I react to it? Everything is, how do I have a reaction to this thing? Which is the least productive thing that you can do? Which is what Paula was saying. You can't get better at this by doing more of it. You get better of it by literally going into a coma and having your dollar cost average work. So for most people, not having to fight the demon of every single day, trying to. It's like the addict, right? When I quit chewing tobacco, I didn't quit chewing for the rest of my life. I quit going into gas stations, because that's where I bought it. And I was just like, if I just don't go inside a gas station, I'm going to eliminate 99% of the chances. And for the longest time, I never walked into a gas station. Now it doesn't cross my mind. I don't even see it.

[E]

But where do you get your beef jerky?

[C]

I know.

[B]

Taking away the opportunity for you to have the emotion and doing the thing, having to fight the battle. Don't be an alcoholic and go to the bar every Friday night with your buddies. Don't fight the battle. Why would you want to do that? Just be like, I'm going to sit at home. And if you say, well, I'm the type of guy that would never change my investment thesis bull. If you get hit in the head so many times, you're going to frigging change it, you're going to do something. Well, maybe I'll just do a little bit of Nvidia.

[C]

It was always when I was a planner, my clients that told me I never panic. The ones who were adamant that I never panic.

[B]

People say that.

[C]

Always the first ones to call me og. They were always the first ones.

[B]

It cracks me up. So when I go, then you're, you're like, I panic. Like, I don't want, I don't. Like, I've been doing this almost 30 frigging years. Every time it goes down 20%, you know what I think to myself? God dang it, man, I'm so tired of this. It's so, so soul crushing. I have the same emotions as everybody else, just a bigger scale of them, you know, bigger responsibility maybe. And it's like, just don't put yourself in the thing. Like, look at your money once a year. I guarantee if you measure backward in that way, you're going to be way, way, way even in 2022, if you're an investor, you is down 20% and you dollar cost average, you put your money in da da, da da, like you normally do. Just by doing that, you would have had a better experience in 2022 than if you knew every single day what was happening.

[C]

First thing a diet coach tells you, just get all that crap out of your house. You know, get all the.

[B]

Don't leave it in the fridge and go, I just won't eat it. Yeah, you will eat it.

[C]

Like putting stacks of donuts around Doug's house and tell him not to eat any.

[B]

Like, that's a marshmallow drill from kindergarten.

[C]

Not, not gonna go. Well, can't wait, by the way, to hear your second ones. We're gonna have everyone have one more in the second half of our lessons from 2025. But at halfway point all year long, we had this wonderful competition won this year by the Jesse Kramer, who only Jesse. How many times did you have to cheat and get it like right on to make sure that you won?

[D]

Five or six. Five or six? Five and a half, I think. I think the half spots did you use. Coalition victory half point. There was one as well.

[C]

The coalition victory first half point in stacking Benjamin's history. We are going to do something different today, though, Stackers, because of the fact that that competition's over. We can't not have a competition. So for our friends hanging out with us as we record this, you're going to want to pay attention to Doug because we're going to do some audience participation on this one. Doug, what do we got for today's episode?

[E]

Hey there, stackers. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and right now we're thinking about two things, the holidays and mo money. So let's combine both with this simple clip from a film you've probably seen before called National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation. And if you're one of the stackers hanging out with us on the YouTube live while we record this in the chat, we want you to write down which roundtable contributor you think will get the answer right. And if a stacker correctly predicts the name of our roundtable contributor who gets today's trivia answer correct. Well, Joe, tell them what they'll win. Well, Bob.

[B]

Nope, you can't do it. That's for Doug to throw his voice only.

[C]

Sorry. All right, well, Doug, I have a stack of books that I've used to get ready for some of our amazing interviews, like the incredible Hannah Cole's great book Texas for Humans sitting right here. I don't have an unlimited sized house, so I need to move these. So I barely have have scratched it. So it's. It's all for you. We've got about 50 books on a list and you can take them and I don't care. Re gift them. Give them to people you know that are going to love.

[B]

Tell everybody it's a brand new book and you were thinking of them.

[C]

Yeah, exactly.

[E]

Re gift it like we're about to do.

[C]

It's a gently used book, which I know you're all excited about. Stackers.

[E]

So remember, you're not writing the answer to the trivia in the chat for the thousandth time. No. You're writing the name of the contributor you think will get it right. Will you be brave enough to pick Paula?

[C]

Paula.

[E]

Have you ever seen plead this movie?

[F]

I will neither confirm nor deny.

[C]

Oh, come on. Have you seen this movie?

[F]

Well, not.

[B]

I don't know, Margot.

[F]

I plead the fifth.

[E]

All right. Will. Will you pick Mr. Holiday Cheer himself OG or will you pick Harry Longwood, aka Jesse Kramer? You get one pick if you're hanging out with us live. So pick while we play the clip. Roll it, Joe.

[C]

Gonna have a wonderful Christmas. I have a delivery for Clark W. Grizmith. I was supposed to deliver it yesterday, but it fell between the seats and I didn't see it.

[B]

I'm sorry.

[C]

Merry christmas.

[B]

Merry christmas.

[C]

I can't believe it. What is it? A letter confirming your reservation at the nut house.

[B]

It's from my company.

[C]

Your bonus.

[B]

My bonus? Open it, Clarky. Open it. Yeah. I hope it's a fortune, Clark.

[D]

That you do, Eddie.

[E]

Oh.

[C]

I was afraid.

[E]

Are you gonna ball all over it.

[B]

Or are you gonna open it? Oh, I just. I just going to wait till tomorrow to tell you all this, but what the heck. With this bonus check, I'm putting in a swimming pool. That's it. That's the big one. Open it. I'm sorry if I've been a little short with everyone lately.

[D]

It's.

[B]

I've been waiting for this bonus to make sure the pool goes in as soon as the ground thaws. I had to lay out the money in advance. And until this little miracle arrived, I didn't have enough in my account to cover the check I wrote.

[F]

Tear the sunroof in, dad.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Drumroll. There's enough left over. I'm going to fly you all down here to help us dedicate. I can't swim, Clark. I know that, Eddie. Hey. Oh, hey, Clark.

[C]

What's wrong, honey? It's bigger than you expected.

[E]

So is the bonus more than Clark originally thought? Today's question. What is Clark's bonus specifically? I'll be back right after I find out from Joe's mom what this year's bonus is for helping frost the snowman cookies.

[A]

Kevin Harlan here. Tonight, the NBA on Prime crew has another thrilling NBA doubleheader. It tips off with an Eastern Conference showdown as Tyrese Maxey and the Philadelphia 76ers head to Madison Square Garden to take on Jalen Brunson and the New York Knicks. Then it's Western Conference action. SGA and the defending champion Oklahoma City Thunder visit Anthony Edwards and the Minnesota Timberwolves it all comes your way tonight on Prime. And if you're not a Prime member, that's not a problem. Sign up for a 30 day free trial to get started today. The Sixers and Knicks, the Thunder and Timberwolves coverage starts tonight at 6:30pm Eastern only on Prime. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com Amazon prime for details.

[C]

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[B]

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[C]

Apps, games and skills faster. Try [e-mail] copilot all right, Paula, you're going to be playing for a contributor. Which contributor would you like to play for? That said, they want to be on Team Paula.

[F]

I would like to first make a statement and then make a request.

[C]

Okay.

[F]

I would like to make the statement, as you all have seen, that my hands have been in the frame the whole time as you have been watching on YouTube, you'll notice and this is very intentional. Hands up in frame whole time that played. I just want to make a note of that. All right.

[B]

Before I pick the purse, I was writing my card.

[F]

This.

[C]

This gets better for everybody except Paula. At a time they're like oh crap.

[F]

And with that statement made, I would like to make a Request. Because I am notoriously the dark horse candidate here. You know, the long shot. But. But there are no improved odds. And so my request is they're the two people who against all odds have both said that they want to be team Paula.

[C]

Carlos, we did have two that they picked Paula no matter what. What's going on here?

[F]

Yes. Carlos Espinosa and Daniel Mayan.

[C]

All right, well you know what? Because these people are cousin Eddie in this kid. I can't swim. Clark. I know maybe my favorite line of that little clip. Okay, we'll do it for you, but we're not doing it for the other two guys. Oh gee. Who are you going with? Out of all the people said OG.

[B]

I'm gonna go Patrice.

[C]

Patrice is team og. Congratulations, Patrice and Jesse.

[B]

Yeah, it's a tough pick.

[D]

A lot of choices. As I scroll through. A lot of choices. Gonna go with user 557. That's there. They're calling my name.

[C]

User 5571 speaking your language.

[D]

They are. They are.

[C]

It's amazing because user 5517 does not know that that was your parents first choice for your name when you were born.

[D]

Correct? Correct. The dog was named Harold and I was 55717 for a little bit.

[C]

It was pretty wild. All right, everybody has written their guess. Doug, what is the answer to today's question?

[E]

Hey there stackers. I'm cookie Froster, but never frosting eater, Joe's mom's neighbor. Doug. Earlier we heard a clip from Christmas Vacation featuring Clark Griswold played of course by Chevy Chase Receipt receiving his year end bonus. But what did he get as a bonus? Was it enough for the swimming pool? Was it enough to fly his whole family out to dedicate the pool? Well, let's listen.

[D]

Smaller.

[C]

What is it?

[D]

It's a one year membership in the.

[B]

Jelly of the Month club. Oh, God bless Mark. That's the gift that keeps on giving the whole year.

[D]

That it is, Edward.

[B]

That it is, Edward.

[C]

It's the Jelly of the Month club, Doug. Which means I think we have to see what our contributor said. Let's start off with. Start off with Jesse.

[D]

Jesse, you said I. I wrote down $15,000.

[C]

Have you never seen Chris's vacation?

[D]

No.

[C]

God no.

[D]

I was born after the year 1900. I haven't seen it.

[B]

Jesse, I know you say that with a lot of contempt in your heart. However, I strongly encourage you to watch it with a full attention to all the dialogue.

[D]

I've heard it's. I've heard I'm a dummy for not.

[B]

Having seen it, just bang, bang, bang. It's like Arrested Development in terms of. It's like one liners. You can't keep up with it.

[D]

Maybe this Christmas will be the Christmas.

[B]

I want to hear. Paula's. You think more or less than 15,000?

[C]

Well, we'll see.

[D]

We'll see.

[C]

Paula's holding her, holding hers up. I can't wait to see the big.

[F]

I would like to make a note that this notebook has also been in frame since before we played the answer. So everything is fully in frame.

[C]

It's not looking good. It is not looking good. All right, og.

[B]

It's a one year membership to the Jelly of the Month Club.

[D]

Clark.

[B]

That's the gift that keeps on giving the whole year.

[E]

This is absolutely OG's favorite movie.

[C]

As he's quoting the movie.

[B]

It is 100%. I don't think we've only watched it probably about twice. Well, as we're recording this twice this year, but we will watch it no less than 100 times between now and Christmas.

[C]

It is so fun every year we watch this movie. All right. And Paul, you're disappointing two people here. Paula, turn it around. Let's go.

[F]

It's the Jelly of the Month Club. What?

[C]

How did you get that, Paula?

[F]

Oh, mg, I will never reveal my secrets.

[E]

What? This is the one movie that she's watched.

[F]

I wouldn't go that way.

[E]

She memorized it.

[C]

Well, have you seen this movie?

[F]

Thank you to those of you who took. Who took the wild card bet.

[E]

So that means user 55717 got totally screwed on this deal. Totally. Who was playing for Patricia Arquette? Patricia gets to pick some books, right, Patrice?

[C]

Patrice, write me.

[B]

Put on your reading goggles, your spectacles.

[E]

And Paula was playing for Carlos Santana and Daniel Boone. They both. They both get to pick books, right.

[C]

Patrice, Daniel and Carlos. Write me, Joe stackybenjamins.com and just say hey and I will send you the list. And if you're able to do it today because of the day that we're recording, I'll see if I can get about tomorrow before I go on a little trip for the next couple days. But congratulations, Paula. Your knowledge of pop trivia is pretty incredible.

[B]

Paula has a shirt that says, I don't know, Margo. No, she doesn't get that part of the joke.

[C]

No, I guess not. Not that much pop trivia.

[F]

I'm pacing myself. I'm pacing myself here.

[C]

Second half of today's episode is sponsored by nitsa. Did you know that driving under the influence of marijuana is illegal? And if you drive while you're high, law enforcement can definitely tell if you feel different, you drive different, drive high, get a DUI paid for by nhtsa. All right, guys, let's get back into this. Let's go in reverse order. Jesse, what's your second lesson from 2025 that we can learn from?

[D]

Which one do I want to pick? Okay, financial planning. Financial plans need to be dynamic and one kind of big story, but maybe kind of small story, or at least it doesn't affect everybody, was just the way this big, beautiful bill came to be. The changes to some tax rules, ACA healthcare premiums being a big one that I think maybe some stackers out there are dealing with. In fact, one stacker, Paul, who we know and I met for the first time at fincon this year, wrote to me and kind of explained the way that based on his income in his kind of early retirement years, how much his ACA premiums would be changing due to the big, beautiful bill. So I just think there's a really interesting lesson there about, you know, your financial plan. You might sit here today or you might sit there on day one of retirement and think, you know, the way that the next few years, decades are going to go for you. But it's a dynamic thing, and sometimes that change is triggered by government policy.

[C]

Yeah, it's funny, OG it strikes me in an earlier episode this quarter, we talked about how kind of funny it is whenever the government says this one's permanent.

[B]

I love it. I love it when people say that. It makes me smile because I know I have some job security.

[C]

It 100% is. How do you deal with that? We talked earlier about the emergency fund people now are getting. You know, government agencies are saying that we're going to see most probably premium increases on your health insurance for 2026.

[B]

How do you not. Most probably are. And by this time, everybody will have already enrolled. So hopefully you've already seen it. I think the biggest thing, by the way, I mean, ACA doesn't work like this, but in other areas, I think the biggest thing is ask for a better deal. I was talking to my kids about this. My son was recounting the car purchase story when we bought his car. And he's like, I just don't understand why with cars, you know, you go to the grocery store and it's a milk's five bucks or whatever. You don't go up to the cash registers to go, I'm thinking four. You know, there's. You scan it and you pay. He Goes, but you. He's like, you sit down with this guy, the sticker says, you know, 20,000. And you go, I'm not willing to pay over 17. The guy goes, I can't do. But I can do 19. Yeah, I can't do. I can do 18. I can do 18. He's like, why don't you, why don't I just say 18, 5, and that's what you're going to pay. And that'd be the thing. He's like, I don't understand that. I said, well, the funny thing is that everything is like that. If you just ask most things, I shouldn't say everything. That's a broad generalization. But we got our health insurance quote from our agent. And the only thing I said, he said, do you have any questions? And I said, I have one question. Is this the best price? He goes, yeah, it's a big increase. Let me go back and ask. And two days later he came back and he goes, we lowered it. It was a 20% increase. We got it to a 15% increase. Still an increase. It still sucks, but still that 5%, that's not. But it's compounded, right? It's like your house. And you get your house appraisal and you say, the first time, when I get my house appraisal, I'm not going to fight it because it's in the ballpark, but it's off by 2 or 3%. Well, that off by 2 or 3% for a 20 year time period is going to compound into lots of money that you're going to pay in taxes that you could have just said, I think the number's a little lower. Just ask. But the question was more about how do you adjust for this in your plan? And the reality is, just like Jesse said here, financial planning is we're going to point the boat in the right direction and we're going to start rowing and then we're going to make changes. So the plan that you make today is not going to be the same plan that you have in five years from now. It's probably not the same plan that you have in two years from now. Because life happens and it comes in different ways. Comes in different ways, like, hey, surprise, you're having a baby, to hey, surprise, you're losing your job, to hey, surprise, you got promoted and you're moving across the country, you know, or you're moving back home because you got to go take care of your parents. There's all sorts of different things that can pop up in your life. And you know, the best you can do is just take the information that you have, make a plan for it and row the boat in that direction and then reevaluate.

[C]

It's funny, Paula, I really like what Og said earlier in the first half of today's show about the stock market. And just, you know what? Don't pay attention.

[D]

Right?

[C]

Just don't pay attention at all. But if you weren't paying attention at all to the fact that price increases might have changed with your health insurance going in 2026 like that could, that could blindside you big time. So is there a line there where, okay, I listen to the news, but when they turn on the stock market news, I shut it off?

[F]

No, I mean, I wouldn't think so. Even the news about health insurance premiums increasing, that didn't break until very shortly before open enrollment season began. Even if you were carefully watching the news and you heard that the moment that the story broke, that still would not have given you a good adequate amount of time to save up the cost differential. So I don't think the answer there is necessarily paying attention to the news. I think it's having a margin of error within your budget so that you can account for the unexpected. And sometimes the unexpected comes in the form of car repairs or veterinary bills, but sometimes the unexpected comes in the form of just higher premiums. Right now the discussion is health insurance. But we've seen this with car insurance. We've seen this with homeowners insurance, flood insurance, particularly for people who live in disaster prone areas. So, you know, we've seen the same story play out in, in many different forms.

[C]

I think it's just another reminder. The big thing I always hear from people is I hate change. I can't stand change. And change is the only constant. There will always be change. So learning to get comfortable with change, I think is a really important lesson from 2025. Paula, let's stick with you. What was on your list?

[F]

The story of the housing market this year was really interesting because there are a couple of lessons from it. One is that this is actually in some ways the opposite of the last lesson. Change can happen very slowly. I think people were hoping for bigger interest rate declines this year and we went for the bulk of the year without any interest rate decline. You know, it didn't start. The Fed didn't start lowering rates until relatively late in the year. And even when they did start lowering rates, I mean, that didn't necessarily move the ten year treasury, which means that mortgage rates didn't move in quite the way that people were hoping, you know, even after the fed funds rate dropped twice. And so I think that, you know, the, the, the counter lesson is that change can sometimes happen very slowly and we saw that in mortgage rates this year.

[C]

Well, and I think that the key here, Jesse, is that people were hoping for that to change and hope is not a plan.

[D]

Yeah, I mean, it's a tough situation. Hopium, they're all hopped up on Hopium. I mean, I consider myself one of them where I really would like interest rates to go down so I can refinance. But we made the housing purchase up front knowing that if interest rates never go down, we would still be fine. Right. And I think that's one of those, like you kind of have a little barbell strategy to these financial decisions, which is in the worst case scenario you're still going to be okay and in the best case scenarios you're going to be great. Or at least, you know, at least that's one way of approaching, you know, building in conservatism into your financial plan, into your financial decisions. I do think conservatism sometimes can go way too far in the other direction. But all else being equal, having a little bit of conservatism in there really helps. But yeah, as far as what Paula's comments were, I think that some people learned some interesting lessons this year about the different relationships along the interest rate curve and that just because the short end of the curve changes doesn't necessarily mean that your mortgage rate or that mortgage rates across the country are going to change.

[C]

Can we talk for a second, guys, about this new product? Now the idea of the 50 year mortgage. Oh, gee.

[B]

What would you like to talk about?

[C]

Well, I mean, this was presented in 2025. What are your thoughts?

[B]

It is an awful, awful idea. That is my thought. Which one of you guys posted something or sent me a picture of something about the grandkids having to co sign for your housing, your housing because they're going to, they're going to inherit the loan. Like, this is beyond stupid. And I get, I think this has a lot to do with. And this is going to be like old man yelling at Cloud for a moment, you know, But I think this has a little bit to do with like FOMO stuff. And for some reason everybody, everybody seems to compare their beginning to everybody else's middles. And it's like, and I've seen it for two generations. So I saw it when I was in my 20s and 30s and I see it when the next Generation's in their 20s and 30s and I hear it just in the dialogue. And I'll be interested to see when my kids get to that age to see what happens. And I'm not saying that it's not different because I understand that it is. But I remember when I was in my 20s and 30s going, I'm never going to be able to buy a house. These housing prices are crazy. Like, what is going on? Like, stupid boomers have all the property and they're not selling it. And like, you know what I mean? Like that was going on when I was in my 20s and now it's the same thing. You know, I'll be 48 this year sometime between now and the end of the year. You guys don't know when, but it's happening. And you hear the same stuff. It's like, you know, all the old people have screwed up the housing market and, you know, you guys got all the cheap money and all that sort of stuff. I'll never be able to buy a house. It's like, well, because you're 28 years old, you don't get to have the 2 million dollar big giant house at 28, bro. Like, I work my ass off for 30 years to be here, but you see that. And I don't know if that's the social media have having a lot to do with it or like why that is. And I know that there's other things and so I'm gonna get a bunch of hate mail. People are like, you don't understand what it's like to be like, you know, whatever. I get it to some degree. Stop comparing the beginning part of your life to somebody else who's like 50 and has been saving money their whole life. And you know, and investing and that sort of thing. It's like with that attitude, you'll never have 5 million bucks in your investment account either. You don't start there, you start with zero and you have to do the thing for 25 years, you know? Yeah, somebody said 100,000. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

[C]

But B. Wayne says people were freaking when housing prices hit a hundred thousand dollars back in 1990.

[B]

And I'm not saying that inflation hasn't had a negative effect on this or.

[C]

Interest rates, that there's some areas like the Bay Area where it's just crazy.

[B]

Hit a frigging home run by the fact that I got to refinance in Covid for two and a half percent. But I, and this is on the show, I talked about this Then I didn't do 25, two and a half percent for 30 years. I told everybody take the two and a half for 15 years because that's a better deal in the long run. Like you get the rate and the term and you can knock this stuff out. And so yeah, I'm sitting here seven years into it or five years into it, having paid aggressively with seven years to go on my mortgage.

[C]

While we got you in the spotlight, OG, you've got the last one.

[B]

Oh, Jesse's got some.

[D]

I'm trying to be a better. What's the.

[C]

Oh, we haven't done Jesse's yet. What am I talking about?

[D]

I say yes. And where it's like. Og, on the one hand I see what you're saying where I think there is some sort of, whether it's social media causing all these comparisons and accelerating people's timelines to get to certain places in life. And when I look at the case Shiller home price index or the all Transactions House price index, all of which are indexed for inflation, they are also at all time highs, which I think you know. So it's, it's, it's both. It's both. It's a yes. And for, for me, yeah, I think.

[C]

It is for all of us.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Should see the prices that. Nevermind, go for it.

[C]

All right. Do you got the last one here?

[B]

OG Yeah, I got one. This one's a little touchy feely because you guys are talking about what happened in 2025 and you said personal. So I was thinking about the stuff that's happened to me personally. My oldest graduated high school in May and for the better part of about 10 day period we had both sets of his grandparents here. We had aunts and uncles, we had cousins. And not everybody stayed at the house. Most people were staying at hotels. In fact, I think everybody did. Mostly because I didn't want to argue about who was sleeping on the floor versus the mattress versus the blow up bed versus why do I have to sleep on the stairs again, get a hotel. But I think about that quite a bit in the context of a few things. Number one, if you have kids and you're in the middle of the suck where it's like all the chaos is going on and whether it's diapers or middle school where there's drama or it's high school and there's never ending activities going on, this ends and it ends with just an explosive ending. It's like busy, busy, busy, busy, busy. Stop. There is no ramp down. It stops and Then your kid goes away. So even though it kind of. You feel like it might suck a little bit, embrace the suck, because this stuff ends, and it ends viciously. And then the second thing was, I really love the fact that we got to spend so much time with our. Some nieces and nephews, our nieces and nephews that we don't live close to. We had a bunch of people in the house. We had parties every day. It was beautiful weather. The most exciting thing for us was our nieces and nephews. Most of them showed up not knowing how to swim and left swimming because they just spent all day, every day in the pool. And you can't help but learn how to at least float when you're. They're not Olympic class athletes, but they managed to not die while they were in our care, and that was a little bit of an accomplishment. But again, more about just family time. And those times come by few and far between. And I know a lot of times people get stressed around the holidays, like, oh, my God, Grandma and grandpa are coming to town. It's chaos. Or all the cousins are coming, or I don't feel like doing this stuff. Tomorrow's not promised everybody. And there is nothing better than hanging out with the people that you care most about or that care most about you. And if you can pull that off, or if you can spend a day or you can spend two days this holiday season with those people around you, that's the best thing in the universe. So I get it that travel sucks, Airplanes are awful, the weather delays, the American Airlines can kiss my butt, rental cars screwed you. All of that sucks. But hanging out with people that you care about is the most important thing. And if you can do that one day or a day and a half more or something, super awesome. So I look back on this year, and I see that as a big transition for us, or at least a third of a transition for us. And I love this time that I got to spend with my oldest. And now he's off to college, and when he gets home, that's cool. But I also like the time that everybody was here collectively. So anyway, I think that's a great.

[C]

Place to leave it. I think a big lesson there is that I've learned over time is it's saying I'll be happy when these other conditions happen.

[B]

That's right. Yeah.

[C]

Is a mistake. Like, I always show up me and so embrace where you are. Love that. I think it's a great ending point for this end of the year roundtable episode. Og let's stick with you. It's your birthday ish weekend. So any big plans?

[B]

Absolutely.

[F]

Of course.

[B]

It's getting crazy. The OG house. Didn't you get your ticket? I mean, we had. Do you got DJs and fog machines and all sort of stuff?

[C]

Apparently. Doug, I'm going to use OG's line. Apparently we weren't invited.

[E]

Yeah, never again this year.

[B]

Weird.

[E]

You know why? Because he likes to spend his time with people that he cares about and that care about him. So we don't make that list.

[B]

Sucks to suck.

[C]

Doug, Jesse, thank you so much for being on this last time. I thought it was great.

[D]

This was a great year. The one and done. The one and done year. I had a lot of fun.

[C]

It was a great year.

[B]

Out with a bang. Jesse, nice knowing you.

[C]

I gotta say. Jesse, in all seriousness, it was a fantastic year having you board the team. Thanks for all your contributions this year. What's going on at the Personal Finance for Long Term Investors podcast?

[D]

Well, the feeling is mutual. Thank you. Thank you all for having me. It's been. It was a lot of fun. It was a great year. And while I'm talking about how great your podcast is, what a perfect time to tell you what's going on at my podcast.

[B]

Right, Joe?

[D]

No. If Stackers go over to the podcast feed right now, shots, they will see a yet to be recorded as of this recording, but I'm looking forward to recording it Episode. It's my past, present, future Christmas spirit episode that I stole from either you or Charles Dickens. I'm not sure which, but I have a unique thought process in my head for how I'm going to record it. And I think it's going to be a really fun episode. So that's what listeners can go over to and listen to right now.

[C]

That's fantastic. The more the merrier, Jesse. It's a great idea.

[D]

Good one. Good one.

[C]

Paula Pant. Another fantastic year hanging out with you. Thank you so much for giving us the gift of your time and expertise. What's going on at Afford Anything to.

[F]

Round out the year on the Afford Anything podcast? Earlier in the month we had some great interviews. We aired William Vanderblum and talking about working how you're wired. We aired David Bach. He's best known for don't buy lattes. But really we get deep and we get philosophical and it's a long conversation and one of my favorites. So all of that aired in early December. Around the week of Christmas, we aired Greatest Hits Week. Some of our best from the archives. And then coming up, soon as we go into New Year's, we always, every New Year's do like a retrospective on 2025 and then a look ahead to 2026. And then we also have one tweak a week, which is our annual how to make tiny tweaks. Once just a little, little, little thing that you can do one week. You know, 52 tweaks. You can do one small thing every single week. Make that your new resolution for 2026. These are micro tweaks, but they add up.

[C]

It's fabulous. And that is all coming up and happening at the Afford Anything podcast. Thank you so much, Stackers, for hanging out with us. Our friend James in Boston says we need fewer OG Travel stories this year and probably more. Joe Travel.

[B]

Yeah, we got what he got.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

Travel stories, James.

[C]

I think he got the desired reaction. Talking about, all right, we gotta go because I gotta go travel somewhere, which I never do.

[B]

Yes, Joe is busy, busy, busy.

[C]

Doug, you got it from your man. What should we have learned on today's show?

[E]

Well, Joe, first, take some advice from OG the evolution of efficiency is a wheel that just won't stop rolling. Better figure out how not to get runned over. Second, as Paula said, life is a funny way of changing very, very slowly. So take a note from Jesse. You might sit and wait for mortgage rates to be lowered or for your TGI Friday stock to go to the moon. And while Hopium is a powerful drug, hope is not a plan, but the big lesson. Don't ask Joe's mom what her big lesson was in 2025. She said this new thing called Napster is going to crush the recording industry. Yeah, Ma, you're right. Totally nailed that one. Go back to sleep. Thanks to Paula Pan for joining us today. You'll find Paula's wisdom on the Afford Anything podcast wherever you're listening to us now. You know what? Because it's Hanukkah, I'll also give you the gift of a link in our show [e-mail] thanks to the Jesse Kramer for hanging out with us today. You'll find his amazing personal Finance for Long term investors podcast wherever you listen to finer podcasts. And what the heck, you talked me into it. I'll also share that link on our show [e-mail] too. And finally, thanks also to OG for joining us today. Looking for good financial planning help? Head to stackingbenjamins.comog for his calendar. This show is the property of SB Podcasts LLC, Copyright 2025 and is created by Joe Saul Sehive. Joe gets help from a few of our neighborhood friends. You'll find out about our awesome [e-mail] along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello. Oh, yeah. And before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don't take advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and we'll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show.

[C]

Sam.