Why You Feel Broke Even When You're Doing Everything Right (SB1761)

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Why You Feel Broke Even When You're Doing Everything Right" (SB1761)

The Stacking Benjamins Show | November 14, 2025

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Overview

In this lively, roundtable episode of The Stacking Benjamins Show, host Joe Saul-Sehy and OG revisit an eight-year-old discussion featuring rising personal finance star Erin Lowry (“Broke Millennial”), Afford Anything’s Paula Pant, and author/radio pro Greg McFarlane. The episode seeks to answer the perennial question: “Why does it still feel like you’re spinning your wheels financially, even if you’re making all the smart moves?” Through candid anecdotes, spirited debate, and plenty of humor, the panel explores the feeling of financial stagnation, the true levers behind getting ahead, and how unexpected or unconventional strategies (and jobs) can make a difference.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Do You Feel Broke Even When You’re Doing Everything Right?

• Main prompt: Many people, even diligent savers, feel stuck. Why is that?
• Greg McFarlane opens by challenging the premise, suggesting many folks struggling financially make “self-inflicted mistakes” or avoid hard choices (22:10).

  “At least for me, every poor and underachieving person in my life is there largely because of self-inflicted mistakes.” — Greg McFarlane (22:44)

• Erin Lowry highlights dependence “expenses” like kids and pets, and questions the decision to stay in economically depressed areas out of comfort:

  “I see some people ... still not in a stable job because they won’t leave where they’re from. I have minimal sympathy for that. Strike out and go where the jobs are.” — Erin Lowry (24:09)

Key Takeaway:

• The panel stresses the importance of changing circumstances to improve one’s finances, whether that means side hustling or moving for opportunity.

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2. Income Instability & Side Hustles

• Topic: How to handle uneven income when you’re self-employed/freelancing.

• Paula Pant and Erin Lowry share their personal journeys of transitioning from steady jobs to freelancing. Both used side hustles to create a financial cushion and developed frugal habits to weather lean months (28:07–29:48).

  “You can only frugal down so much. For many people, the emphasis really needs to be on earn, earn, earn.” — Paula Pant (24:51)

• Greg emphasizes starting with a dual-income household, but also “forcing yourself to float” by moving away from safety nets (27:08).

Key Takeaway:

• Building multiple income streams and maintaining a low-overhead lifestyle provide flexibility and resilience, particularly for those with uneven cash flow.

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3. Barriers Built by the Financial System

• Erin Lowry passionately addresses structural obstacles like bank fees that disproportionately hurt people with less buffer.

  “I always ask college students if they’re at the same bank as their parents... Big banks got $5.1 billion in overdraft fees [in 2015]. They’re using your overdraft fees to pay for things like naming rights to stadiums.” — Erin Lowry (30:42)

• The sense of “the system is rigged for the rich” is an undercurrent, but the panel agrees that knowledge (and sometimes moving to a better bank) is empowering.

Key Takeaway:

• Bank with intention, and don’t be afraid to switch for better terms or avoid predatory fees.

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4. Stop Worrying and Start Saving: Article Analysis

• The group reviews a retirement advice article and mostly finds it lacking in actionable depth or nuance (32:33–35:22).

  “Being weighed down by student debt makes you a whole lot dumber about money than your parents were.” — Greg McFarlane (32:41)

• Paula and Erin discuss the importance of understanding contribution rules (for things like 401(k)s and IRAs) and calculating how much you can actually sock away (34:14–36:50).

• Automated contributions and “boiling the frog” by slowly increasing savings over time is advocated.

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5. Getting Creative: Odd Ways to Make Money

• The panel shares and laughs about unexpected or weird money-making ideas, from cuddling services (46:44), being a mascot (51:44), to pet-sitting empires (49:26).

  “When I first moved to New York, I was a barista at Starbucks... and would take home all the ‘expired’ foods. I lived off those paninis and bistro boxes for a very, very long time.” — Erin Lowry (49:26) “Art classes, University of Toronto. Modeling. It’s just like the radio voiceover thing, except nothing moves, including the mouth.” — Greg McFarlane, revealing he did nude modeling for art classes (51:00)

• Paula’s stint as “The Salty Dog” mascot (51:44) underscores how unusual gigs can help cover bills or serve as creative networking opportunities.

Key Takeaway:

• Don’t be afraid of unconventional work—often, small odd jobs or side hustles can meaningfully boost your savings and create fun stories along the way.

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6. Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “It’s the paying attention to spending and the automation of saving and ... putting it out of your mind, but doing it wisely.” — Steve Stewart (05:48)
• “You can only frugal down so much. For many people the emphasis really needs to be on ‘earn, earn, earn.’” — Paula Pant (24:51)
• “Going where the jobs are, where the opportunities are ... it’ll force you to stay afloat.” — Greg McFarlane (27:31)
• “I do monthly net worth updates and track all side hustle income ... If I went all in, I could out-earn what I was when I was working for the man.” — Erin Lowry (25:32)
• “Getting rid of clutter actually has a positive effect on your net worth.” — Paula Pant (48:31)

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Important Segments & Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamps | |------------------------------------|--------------| | Intro/Background & Announcements | 00:00–15:14 | | Roundtable Introduction | 17:43 | | Feeling Stuck Despite Doing “Right”| 22:10–24:32 | | Side Hustles & Income Instability | 24:51–29:48 | | Bank Fees and Banking Structure | 30:15–31:30 | | Retirement Saving Article Critique | 32:15–41:33 | | 7 Strange Ways to Make Money | 45:51–55:10 | | Fun Anecdotes (Mascots/Nude Modeling)| 51:00–55:10| | Wrap-Up & Plugs | 55:11–58:57 |

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Original Tone & Energy

• The Stacking Benjamins signature is light, irreverent, and welcoming, often poking fun at themselves, listeners, and the financial advice industry.
• The guests joke, make pop culture references (like “Anchorman” and The Simpsons), and keep the conversation fast-paced.
• Despite the fun atmosphere, the advice centers on practical, everyday steps and real-life stories that make the lessons relatable.

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Conclusion & Action Items

• Feeling “broke” doesn’t always reflect your actual net worth—it can stem from income instability, lifestyle choices, location inertia, or simply unfair systems.

• Key actions for listeners:

  • Review your automatic savings and gradually increase contributions.
  • Consider creative or odd jobs for side income.
  • Don’t be afraid to move for better opportunity.
  • Regularly reevaluate your banking relationships to avoid unnecessary fees.
  • Remember, boosting your income can be as important as budgeting frugally.

• Final word from Erin Lowry:

  “You can actually get the book [Broke Millennial] and a bonus chapter if you preorder and send proof to infookemillennial.com.” (58:35)

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For more information:

• Find Erin Lowry at brokemillennial.com
• Paula Pant at affordanything.com
• Greg McFarlane’s book “Control Your Cash” on Amazon

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Transcript

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

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[Joe Saul-Sehy]

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[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Hey stackers.

[OG]

Happy Friday.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

This is a great episode that we're about to hit play on. But I got a special guest in the studio today, Donna. Mom's basement. The man you hear on every episode.

[OG]

You don't even know it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Mr. Steve Stewart, our engineer extraordinaire is here with us. How are you, man?

[Steve Stewart]

Lurking in the shadows, taking my broom and cleaning up the corners.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You know, wicked is coming out the part two. Did you see part one?

[Steve Stewart]

I haven't yet. We will. Very.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, I liked it. I don't feel like I need to see part two, by the way. Like, I thought it was pretty, but part two, I don't know that I need it, but. But what I did do find to be the corollary and the reason I bring that up, Steve, is that, you know, there's the wizard of Oz, the. The wizard who's really controlling everything, and that's Steve Stewart. When it comes to stacking Benjamins, we've got three things on tap for you and there's a reason why Steve is here that is not included on the first one. The success sessions are open, which means that we are now going to create our third cadre of 30 or fewer people that I'm going to dive in and help you with your financial plan. The action starts near the end of January. We go 10 weeks. If you can't make a week, don't worry about it. We have that happen every year and we record all the sections. There's so much to it. It's 90 minutes, 10 sessions. We take you from the beginning of your financial plan to the end. So imagine the second quarter, 2026, is just beginning. You haven't done anything all of 2025. And by the end of the first quarter, beginning of the second quarter, you now have your financial plan in place. It's done, you're rolling. So it's stacking benjamins.com sessions, stackingbenjamins.com sessions. And I hope you can join me before it fills up. More on that to come. But the reason Steve is here is that if you're a new stacker, you may not know Steve's background. And Steve, when I became a podcaster, I think you were a money podcaster before I was a money podcaster.

[Steve Stewart]

Yeah. Official launch date was November 23rd of 2010.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

So you had been going for almost a year and a half before Stacky Benjamins, and probably about a year before the precursors to Stacky Benjamin's, which have.

[Steve Stewart]

Been lost to the Internet archives somewhere.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Nobody can, thank God, bury all those things. But what did you do? Back on Money Plan sos, It was.

[Steve Stewart]

A show that I was doing to encourage people to do. A lot of what you do is save, invest wisely, spend wisely. It was just my motivation to get people out there and. And try to make a better financial life for themselves.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It was so fun. I went to my first fincon, and before I even reached fincon, one of the first people I saw was Steve. And we've been collaborating ever since, brother.

[Steve Stewart]

Ever since that elevator, outside the elevator.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

We're talking about term life versus whole life insurance. You, me, and another guy. David Hilton.

[Steve Stewart]

Yes.

[OG]

The three of us.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And I called Sheri. Like, an hour later, I go, I found my people. I'm talking insurance for fun. Like, how great is that?

[Steve Stewart]

On the streets in Denver. That was so random.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, the reason why I was hoping you'd come on the mic is that you told me something really, really cool is coming up.

[Steve Stewart]

Yeah. To celebrate the 15th anniversary of the launch of the Money Planet Source podcast, I thought I'd give a kind of a recap of what's happened in the past few years. I did a 10th anniversary special which was kind of like, hey, here's the best and the worst of the Money Planet Swiss podcast. I don't know where I got the inspiration for the worst of from somewhere. And that was kind of fun. Surprisingly, a lot longer than I expected it to be. But then on the 15th anniversary, I'm like, you know what? My wife and I have been together for 25 years.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Wow.

[Steve Stewart]

When we started out our net worth was 90,000. No, not our net worth, our investable assets. Our net worth is negative because we had a mortgage, $90,000. And I had a graph that I put together a couple of weeks ago to see where we are today with our investments. What a change. What a change. So I'm going to share a lot of those details. Not maybe not the numbers, but I'll give a lot of great details about what we've done in the past quarter century.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Super cool anniversary. But it's amazing, Steve. I mean looking back at that time, it just strikes me that knowing you for a long time and seeing some of the inflection points, it isn't the big things, it's the day to day attention that I know you've to just the little things.

[Steve Stewart]

Absolutely. It's the paying attention to spending and it's the automation of saving and you know, putting it out of your mind, but doing it wisely.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I wanted to play this roundtable episode specifically because of this phenomenal anniversary for Money Play and SOS. This was a roundtable episode from eight years ago, from 2017, and it features Aaron Lowry, who at that time was a young phenom. A lot of people didn't know who she was. She was coming out with this book that went on to be a huge bestseller called Broke Millennial. Aaron joins Paula Pant, who eight years younger, Paula Pant and this guy who has been off the show for a long time. But if you've talked to stackers that have been around for quite a while, they always reminisce about this Gentleman, the Greg McFarlane is on this episode. So it's, it's funny because you're in for a ride. The, the whole thing about this episode is you feel like you're doing everything right. And why are you kind of spinning your wheels right?

[OG]

Like, but.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And you're so worried that things aren't going to turn out right. So initially we called this stop worrying, start saving. And this time around we've called it something closer to you're doing everything right. Why don't you feel like you're getting anywhere? So I want people to think about three things here. If you had an extra $500 a month, what would change in your life as you listen to this round table? Because I think, I think this is going to help you start spinning the wheels on what would I do? I mean, it's almost like we think about Steve winning the lottery. If I win the lottery, what would I do? Like everybody's dreamt of that before. And my answer, I don't know about your, Steve, has changed over time.

[Steve Stewart]

I've never really thought about it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You seriously haven't thought about if I won the lottery?

[Steve Stewart]

I know that I'll never play, but I was like, if I win the lottery, I do, you know, two things. 10 here, 20 there.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah.

[Steve Stewart]

The rest, you know, an investment somewhere, 100%.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I don't play, but I'm always like, if I did it, here's what I would do. I would set up a foundation. I would, I would spend all my time then investing it and getting it moving and taking these, these priorities that I really want to happened for people, for my hometown and for financial literacy. I would use it to promote those things. And yeah, I think we've all dreamt about it. But it's funny, when we turn that into if we had $500, what you might start thinking about is, where is 500 bucks? Do I have $500 in my budget somewhere? Or is there a fairly easy way for me to go make $500, maybe even to be a seasonal employee this time of year? So I think, I think that's a question. Another question which might be a little bit more reflective is when was the last time you felt like you were getting ahead financially, especially if you were attracted to this title?

[OG]

About.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I am spinning my wheels and I feel like I'm getting nowhere. I always find it's better to go back and look at history and go, you know what? What was I doing at that point? So what was different? Sometimes the answer isn't and what you're doing wrong now, but. And what you were working before that you forgot about. And it's so funny, Steve, back when I was a new financial planner, I used to go to work. I would be at work by 8am I would stay till 6. And I did that my entire first two years. Well, the third year I decided I didn't want to go to work at 8 anymore. I wanted to go to work at 9 and I wanted to come home at 4:30. And guess what happened? I wasn't as successful. All of a sudden stuff starts falling through the cracks and I'm like, why is it falling through the cracks? O I had this day that was working and then I blew it up. And surprisingly, things weren't. Things weren't working anymore. So what I want you to do is listen for those things. Now what I want to do with Steve here is we're going to, we're going to go back kind of in the time machine.

[OG]

And talk about the last few years working together.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

So for people interested in the. In the history of stacking. Benjamin, stay with us for the next three minutes. If not, fast forward about three minutes and then you can just start today's greatest hits episode. But for those people that are. They're staying around with us. Steve, when you first heard Greg McFarland, what did you think?

[Steve Stewart]

You know, he had some good points. And I do like people who challenge my thinking. That's always good. There's some things I disagreed with him on, but again, I like. I like being challenged with my thinking.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I noticed with Greg and before him, another guy that we had for a short while, Dominique Brown, that they were. They would make these very flame statements.

[Greg McFarlane]

Yeah.

[Steve Stewart]

Exclamation points at the end.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yes. That were easy to disagree with and would get people heated up. And partly the way that they said it would get people heated up. And it was the first time that I realized as a creator that when you have a. A round table episode, having everybody make sense the same way wasn't as fun. It was nowhere near as fun as having this foil, which was interesting because when Greg left, I'm like, who could be our new foil? Holy crap. OG switches.

[OG]

Where did he come from?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Another guy with some. Some strong opinions. But that's also why we mix it up, why we don't have the same three people ask, why don't you have Jesse Impala and OG on every episode? And it's specifically because what you're going to hear today from Greg McFarland, it's because when you throw somebody in there who has a whole different point of view, man, it makes a fun episode. So we try to have two of the same people in one different one, different one on. Are there any favorites on the Round Table, Steve, that you've liked best over the last, what, 12, 13 years?

[Steve Stewart]

Well, I gotta say, Jesse Kramer has been a fantastic addition to the roundtable lately. And then very, very recently, it's just a nice little breath of fresh air. Is Anna having. Anna Ellen.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, yeah, Anna. Well, she hasn't been on the round tables, just with a Q. Oh, not the roundtables.

[Steve Stewart]

Right, right.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Steve Stewart]

But Jesse, you've always been able to get some really intelligent people and they always come up with some really good angles that maybe I haven't been thinking about. And again, I like being challenged with my thinking.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Two people I really like who challenge me every time that they're on. Sandy Smith from Yes I Am Jeep. She will push your buttons.

[Steve Stewart]

Yeah, yeah, she will.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Always push her buttons. And then also Dorothea Kelly is the same. Dorothea Kelly will push your buttons. One of my friends from Detroit, Dorothea, just a complete badass. A financial planner that we don't have on enough. Elaine King was another person that will just say Steve's even searching his memory to remember who Elaine King is.

[Steve Stewart]

Yeah, I'm trying to remember. It's been a while.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yes. She is a practice in Miami and also in Peru and one of Investopedia's top 10 financial voices online from financial professionals. I got one more thing you are prepping this year. A disc maybe?

[Steve Stewart]

Are we allowed to talk about this?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Steve sends us a disc every year. Steve is the is the person that can make sure that OG and Doug and I never get elected to public office because there are some things that went on the cutting room floor that Steve gets to hear, nobody else gets to hear. But I gotta ask you, Steve, is this disc going to be worse than before or better than before?

[Steve Stewart]

Oh, it's on par. It's on par.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It's the same stuff.

[Steve Stewart]

Yeah. You guys still are not behaving all the time.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I feel like we've cleaned it up. I feel like we've cleaned it up.

[Steve Stewart]

No, that's my job is to clean it up.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, thanks for all you do, brother.

[Steve Stewart]

I appreciate being here.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Hey, and anybody who wants to get into what you do, I know that you also lead lead a group of people who are podcast editors. It's a podcast editor academy. Can we talk about that? Because if somebody wants to do what you do, if somebody seriously is thinking about a next career, I just ref you somebody just out of college just recently. But tell everybody a little bit about the academy.

[Steve Stewart]

Yeah, Podcast academy is where we put up some. I have a business partner, Mark Deal. We put up educational and support information for people who want to make this a serious side hustle or a career. I've had almost 10 years of experience doing this as a full time profession. So there's a lot of good information to help somebody if they want to get into the post production side of the video or audio podcast.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It's good to see some people that have been fans of the show that have become great podcast editors. I'm thinking of Virginia Elder, very good podcast editor. I met her when she was a fan of the show at fincon. So if you're a Stacky Benjamin's fan and just want to get in on on financial content creation, Steve is your man. And if you don't remember how to get a hold of Steve, just write me [e-mail] and I'll forward it. Steve man, thanks for all the hard work you do brother.

[Steve Stewart]

Hey, I appreciate being here and now everybody.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I appreciate all you stackers being here. And here comes Aaron Lowry when she was just getting rolling on what's become just a fantastic brand and she's helped so many people.

[OG]

The Paula Pant who's helped a ton.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Of people and the the amazing in more ways than 1. Greg McFarlane before we get to them, we got a couple sponsors to make sure we can keep on keeping on. You don't pay anything for this goodness. So we're going to hear from them.

[OG]

And then and then a roundtable.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

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[OG]

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[Joe Saul-Sehy]

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[OG]

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[Erin Lowry]

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[OG]

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[Erin Lowry]

Look out.

[OG]

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[Sponsor Announcer]

Hey, money nerds. Welcome back to the Stacking Benjamin Show. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and today I'm celebrating my close personal friend Tony Romo's 37th birthday. You may not have heard of him. He's a right fielder for the Texas Longhorns. Seriously biggest fan. This one's for you, Tony. Coming down to the basement today, the author of the hit new upcoming book Broke Aaron Lowry from Afford Anything, we welcome Paula Pance. And what would this show be without the author of Control youl cash, Greg McFarlane. I'll tell you what it would be, Joe. It would be a lot happier. That's what it would be. Now the guy who can't tell the difference between point guard and a goalie, Joe Saul Sehi.

[OG]

Live a feeling one of the two of us doesn't know what those are. Hey, everybody, I'm Joe Salsi. Hi. Average Joe Money on Twitter.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And man, when did. When did hockey start?

[OG]

Was it 8:30? 1982? Probably, probably not. Maybe a different day than that. But we got a great Friday show for you today. Really excited to get there. Speaking of starting the weekend, Erin Lowry. I just absolutely love Erin Lowry and she is helping us end this eight week segment of shows. So let's get this party started. All right? Let's walk across the basement here and fire up my dad shortwave, see if another Friday we can keep this thing working. Five years and we still haven't had much trouble. Let's start off in Las Vegas, Nevada, where I believe Paula Pant is waiting from Afford Anything.

[Paula Pant]

Dude, has it been five years?

[OG]

I've been podcasting for five years. You've been on the show maybe for what, three and a half, I think.

[Paula Pant]

Yeah, I think so. Earlier today I was. Somebody was asking me about this show when I, without thinking, just kind of instinctively said, yeah, I've been on it for about three years. So that that number feels right even though I haven't actually verified it, which is, you know how most people deal with numbers, right?

[OG]

Right. 68.7% of all the statistics we do on the show are made up on the spot. Right? Greg McFarlane from Las Vegas, also five years.

[Greg McFarlane]

That means the show has now featured me longer than it hasn't, I believe.

[OG]

How about that? Yeah, you actually made it. And what's funny is the Vegas odds on that one, Greg. Those were not good.

[Greg McFarlane]

And I'm still the new kid that's right.

[OG]

Well, we got a new kid for both of you guys. She is launching a book in a couple weeks and this is our last podcast before we take a one week break and she's gonna kick it off. Talking about the book, Ms. Broke Millennial herself from New York, New York, Erin Lowry joins us.

[Erin Lowry]

60% of the time, it works every time.

[OG]

So you've got your made up statistics as well.

[Erin Lowry]

Yeah, that's also from Anchorman, because all the millennials just laughed.

[OG]

That's fantastic. And you know what's funny? My co host would have laughed his head off at that too. And it went right over my head.

[Paula Pant]

Which is totally, it totally went over my head too. And I'm supposed to quote, unquote, represent the millennials here.

[OG]

Yeah, everybody's hashtag shock. Paula, that you didn't, that you didn't know what that was.

[Erin Lowry]

What?

[Paula Pant]

There's a movie reference that Paula didn't get.

[OG]

Yeah, Alert the media, Aaron. Paula doesn't even know that there was a movie called Anchorman.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

So you're good.

[Erin Lowry]

Oh, excellent. Well, deep tracks only got a couple laughs from people listening in their car on their way to work, I'm sure.

[OG]

There it is. Well, let's kick this off, guys, because we've got three interesting pieces we're gonna be all over the map today. But we're gonna start with this one from the Washington Post, this written by Janelle Marte. Why some families who save constantly are still struggling to make ends meet. And Greg, it's sad when you read this. You know, people go along saving and saving and saving money and they, they still can't get it done.

[Greg McFarlane]

This is the kind of article where I knew what it was gonna say before I read it or once I read the headline that people are working hard and just can't catch a break. They interviewed 200. I'd rather read a book that interviewed 235 well to do families instead of struggling ones. But these are the cards who were dealt. Hey, maybe I should write such a book. Which you could buy on Amazon. We'll get to that in a second. Here's what I would ask these 235 families who are again punching a clock every day and just can't seem to get ahead. How much did you spend on cigarettes this month? How much did you spend on alcohol this month? How much did you spend on recreational drugs? How much did you spend on car repairs because you were too pound foolish to buy insurance? At least for me, every poor and underachieving person in my life Is there largely because of self inflicted mistakes. Then again, I live in Las Vegas where bad habits go to fester. But I would have been a little more incisive when trying to find out why these people are struggling. I think there are more than just structural reasons.

[OG]

I think though for a good majority, but not a good majority for a lot of people though. I don't want to say, Greg, that Pollyanna is not the right term, but I think it oversimplifies it. I think there are families out there that are working their butt off, live in a small town, don't have enough opportunities to make good money and then find themselves on the short end of the stick when the job dries up.

[Greg McFarlane]

Oh, I left one out. How many kids did you have? How many kids did you have when you were still not financially solvent, Aaron.

[OG]

Do you think it's that easy as Greg's making it?

[Erin Lowry]

I do like the kid point actually. Kids and pets, any sort of dependent that's sucking your money. But sorry, can you tell I don't have children? But one of my things that really caught my eye in this article was on average the Household said that 70% of 72% of the cash that they had in the bank would be needed within the next six months. And in my mind I'm thinking a lot of that is in checking. And they said only 10% of their needs that they had saved was for at least three years away. And to your point about live in small town, job dried up, that's something that frustrates me a little bit. I see it in some people that I went to college with and they graduated with me and that was about six years ago that are still not in a stable job and it's because they won't leave where they're from. And I have minimal amounts of sympathy for that. Strike out and go to where the jobs are and you're just going to stay in this one small area where you know you're not going to be able to get a job and you're going to try to start a family there. You kind of know the position that you're putting yourself in and it's an unfortunate reality, I think.

[OG]

Yeah, no, no, I think, I think you're right there. Paula, let's bring you into this conversation. They say in this article that a piece of this is also income problems like Aaron's talking about. They're in an unstable job or maybe one week they get 40 hours, the next week they get 20. How do you prevent breaking the budget every other week.

[Paula Pant]

Well, I think that the answer to a lot of people's financial problems is to find ways to earn more. Whether that means to getting a second job, starting some type of a side hustle or side business such as reselling things on ebay or freelancing online. But you can only frugal down so much. And I think a lot of financial advice is misguided in its emphasis on save, save, save. When in fact for many people the emphasis really needs to be on earn, earn, earn. Particularly for people in lower middle income brackets.

[OG]

I think none of the three of you work for the Man. Erin, you just do broke Millennial now, right?

[Erin Lowry]

Yeah, I stepped away from my last full time job in November of 2016, so it hasn't been a terribly long period of time. But I was working full time and had side hustled and was very diligently tracking. I do monthly net worth updates and then also track all the side hustle income that I have coming in and I realized that I was earning enough that I could support myself and then I figured if I went all in on freelancing then in addition so to also back up, I don't make a bunch of money from the blog. I never really monetize that way. Most of mine is from speaking gigs as well as where I write for other folks. I figured if I went all in I would be able to at least double the amount that I was earning. And so far I am on track to out earn what I was earning when I was just quote unquote working for the Man.

[Greg McFarlane]

Don't you miss the stability though?

[OG]

No, but that was exactly. Actually an offshoot to Greg's point. And not kidding because people wonder how do you handle though the uneven paychecks? Some weeks you'll make a ton and other weeks you'll make very little.

[Erin Lowry]

Well, a little bit of it is the whole zero sum budgeting strategy, which is living off of last month's income for this month so that you're not overspending. But a lot of it for me is that I do have a pretty simple life in terms of expenses other than my rent. I live in New York City, so I have relatively expensive rent, but other than that I don't have any big number costs. I've also set myself up from a very young age to live debt free, so I picked a college based on coming out debt free because I knew it would give me more opportunity and therefore I could take more risk in my life. So it really backtracks all the way to when I was about 17, 18 years old.

[OG]

Greg, how about you? When you stopped working for the man and worked for yourself, how did you deal with uneven paychecks?

[Greg McFarlane]

Well, first of all, I lived in a two income household. But second, honestly, I hit the ground running. My first month was pretty successful and that sustained me. If it hadn't been as successful, well, I wasn't going to give up. I would have tried until I eventually came around. But hitting a home run or at least a double in your first at bat certainly doesn't hurt. And to Erin's point, she's exactly right. Going where the jobs are or where the opportunities are. I think a lot of people who can't seem to get ahead and lament their condition are, well, my family's here, my friends are here. John Cougar Mellencamp wrote a song about my neighbors. I moved to a different town. I mean hell, I moved to a different country. And the town I came from was not exactly in the Dust Bowl. Vancouver, one of the most expensive and dynamic places in the western world. But I needed a change of scenery and if you do that, regardless of where you come from, I think it'll force you to stay afloat. I couldn't move in with mom and dad. I didn't have that safety net. Not that either one of them would have taken me anyway.

[OG]

Paula, when you started, how did you get around uneven income streams?

[Paula Pant]

So I lived very cheaply when I first started. My story is a little bit unusual in that I worked a full time job and also freelance during the evenings and weekends. And that did two things in that. Number one, that freelancing income gave me additional savings and number two, it gave me confidence. And I think that confidence was more important. But I quit my job and then just went and traveled and did like absolutely nothing for a couple of years. And when I came back to the United States, I decided to become a full time freelancer, essentially starting from zero. So my story is different in that I think the majority of people whom I talk to have a full time gig and then ramp up their side income and then eventually get to the point where that side income they feel confident enough to live on that side income. I did sort of an amended version of that and I wouldn't recommend that people do that, but that was my approach. And so because I was coming back to the US and starting from zero or almost zero in terms of income, I lived as cheaply as I effing possibly could. I rented one bedroom within a three bedroom, tiny little like triplex My share of the rent was for me specifically, it was $200 a month. So Will and I were splitting the room, and our combined share was 400amonth. So, you know, when your rent's 200 bucks a month and you're driving a car that has a resale value of $1,500, and you're eating mostly pasta, you don't really need a whole lot of money. And then from there, I was. I was able to gradually ramp up over time.

[OG]

How do you get by it? Just pasta? I'd weigh 600 pounds and sleep all day.

[Paula Pant]

You know, people tend to eat out a lot. Many people eat at restaurants a lot. And if you actually think about the calorie content and the carb content of those meals, it's often healthier to eat at home, even if you're kind of sticking with, like, spaghetti and eggs and beans. Like, they're all cheap. They're really cheap. But, like, beans are loaded in protein and fiber and dirt cheap. So that was how I got started.

[OG]

I want to go to another issue that they bring up at the bottom of this piece, which we've had guests on before talking about, which is, does it bother you sometimes, Aaron, that big banks really don't work for poor people? I mean, it seems like the banking industry is built on the backs of poor people, right? With the insufficient fund fees, ATM fees, like people that are much more close to the vest. And then super rich people get tons and tons and tons of free services. Does that bother you at all?

[Erin Lowry]

So much so that it's two slides and presentations that I give to college students where. Well, when I always ask people, are you at the same bank that your parents use? And Almost every time, 90% of the room raises their hands. And then I say, all right, if you were to take a guess how much money the big banks, and this is specifically JPMorgan Chase, bank of America, and Wells Fargo, these three. If you were to guess how much they got in overdraft fees alone in 2015, how much do you think it is? And people usually guess like 50 million or maybe a billion. It's 5.1 billion with a B. And that's just overdraft FEES. Add an ATM fees, it goes up to 6 billion. And then I switch the slide, and the next thing is always. So you wonder how banks get naming rights to, like, bank of America Stadium or KeyBank Arena. Like, they are using your overdraft fees to pay for these things.

[OG]

Right. The bottom of the pyramid is building stadiums. That's horrible. I think that's a good place to leave that piece. I really struggle with this issue of poverty in America, and I know that that sometimes it is living where there aren't jobs. And you do have to move to Greg's point. You got to go where the opportunity is. But then again, I also think that the problems involve sometimes the financial industry really sticking it to the little guy as well.

[Greg McFarlane]

The good news, though, Joe, none of the people in that article, they didn't have emergency funds. See silver lining.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Greg.

[OG]

Juan Joe's era. We got that number two piece tonight. Comes to us from. Is it Mike or Mick?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Paula?

[Erin Lowry]

It's Mike.

[Paula Pant]

I assume it's Mike.

[OG]

I think it's Mike. How to Stop worrying about Retirement and actually Start Saving Some money. This piece written by Christy Rakoski. Greg, let's start with you. A lot of people worrying about saving some money for retirement. How do you quit worrying and start saving?

[Greg McFarlane]

This is the worst article I've ever read. Sentence number one, Millennials are smarter about money than their parents. Sentence number two, weighed down by student debt. Yeah, I hope I don't need to explain this, but being weighed down by student debt makes you a whole lot dumber about money than your parents were. To me, the basics of this are what she says in the article multiple times in different ways, which is save as much as you reasonably can. All she says are different permutations of that. Okay, sounds good to me.

[OG]

Hey, Paula, next question's for you. Does Greg every show call one of the articles the dumbest article he's ever read?

[Paula Pant]

Yes. Actually, I hadn't thought about that, but yeah. At least once a week, Greg comes upon the dumbest article he's ever read.

[Greg McFarlane]

I have to admit, that's not an original thought. I stole that from Artie Lang back when he was on the Howard Stern Show. Every time another celebrity swimsuit model porn star walked in, he'd say, that's the.

[OG]

Hottest chick we've ever had in here. I was watching this.

[Greg McFarlane]

I'm paying tribute to my favorite heroin addicted comedian.

[OG]

I thought I was just setting the bar lower and lower and lower for you every week, Greg. Like I've seen. Hey, can I beat that one? Yes, I can. Yes, I can. Paula, you were gonna say something?

[Paula Pant]

I was just gonna comment that I was watching the Simpsons last night. I was digging through the archives and watching a very old episode, and there was a scene where Marge said, homer, this is the worst thing you've ever done. And Homer said, oh, you say that so much, it's Lost all meaning.

[OG]

Yeah, I hear that from Greg. It's the worst ever. I'm like, oh cool, high five me. But really these points, I want to go over these points because I do think a lot of things in this piece are misguided. But number one, Aaron, it says open a retirement savings account or put more money into an existing one. Is that really step one when it comes to stopping worrying about your retirement?

[Erin Lowry]

Well, you can't save very effectively if you don't have the account.

[Paula Pant]

Good point.

[Erin Lowry]

Instead of that just being the initial thing, it's also about running the audit on your finances to see how much you can be putting in there and understanding the different types of retirement accounts and evaluating which one is best for you.

[OG]

Well, that's what I thought was, was. Isn't the first step figuring out how much money you can put there because what you run into. I used to work with companies and employees on their financial plans. It was so frustrating to see so many people sock a ton of money into the 401k and then three weeks later they're taking a 401k loan because they didn't go through their budget first.

[Erin Lowry]

And I think it's interesting too. I've known a couple of people who get really into fire the financial independence, retire early and they up their contribution so much they don't realize that they won't be receiving money in a paycheck. And I think it's kind of funny when that cycle happens now most of them have savings they can pull from. But I actually knew a couple of people who weren't finance nerds who were like, oh, I'm going to increase my 401k contribution. Not really thinking of what the actual implications were. And all of a sudden they saw like a thousand dollars leave out of their paycheck and they're like, oh, I cannot afford to do that. So yes, you need to actually run the numbers before you arbitrarily say I'm going to put 20% in here.

[OG]

That's just crazy talk, Lowry. I don't know what you're talking about. Number two, does sarcasm play on the radio? Number two, Paula, learn the rules for contributions. I think I agree with Aaron that you got to do it.

[Paula Pant]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, even if you are in a position in which you are not going to hit the maximum allowable contribution, it's good to at least know what those numbers are because that informs your decision making process in general and because you never lose by being a more informed citizen. But to Aaron's point, Earlier, by the way, Aaron, I love the way you said that. Yeah, everything is a trade off. Whether you're putting money into a Trad account versus a Roth account, whether you're putting it into a 401k where you would have to take a loan to get it back out, versus a Roth IRA where you can tap the principal if you need to. Not that you should, but you can without penalty. Like all of these are kind of in that trade off decision matrix. And so that's why it's important to learn the rules of all of them, not just the contribution limits, but the overall rules of all of them before you figure out what retirement accounts you're going to open and what you're going to do with it.

[Erin Lowry]

We're missing something a little bit in this rule number two in here, which is also, if you already have an employer matched 401k and you also want to contribute to an IRA, there are limits on that as well, which she doesn't really touch. And so to think that somebody would say, oh, I'm putting in a 401k and I'm also going to max out an IRA, but then they could get hit with a penalty because no, you can't always do that depending on what you're funding. So again, goes back to understanding what type of account it is.

[OG]

Yeah. Or you can't write it off. You can put the money in whatever the income limits, all that stuff. That's the thing that frustrated me, Greg, was that not only she says, learn the rules for contributions, I think about Stephen Covey saying, whenever you pick up one end of the stick, you also pick up the other end. Right. What about the rules about taking the money out? It seems like when I put the money in, I want to know how the hell I get it. Exactly.

[Greg McFarlane]

And nobody thinks about that with a cursory examination like this. Open a 401k. Sure, why not? Get the employer match. Yes, that's free money. But step one, step one is not opening a retirement savings account. Step one is paying off your debts, your consumer debt, your student loans, your undergrad loans at 6 or 7%. Get rid of those. Think of them as negative investments, something that is giving you a rate of -6%. Cut away that dead weight first and then worry about building on the positive side of the ledger.

[OG]

But you know why people don't think about that, Greg? They don't think that paying off debt is retirement savings when it totally is.

[Greg McFarlane]

Absolutely it is. Yeah. However you want to categorize it, it doesn't matter. Money is money, right?

[OG]

Calculate how much you can save. Aaron, I was thinking about you when I was reading this. How do you make that number bigger the amount that you think you can save?

[Erin Lowry]

Well, there's two options. Spend less or earn more. As Paula mentioned earlier. I mean, it's really that basic to me. When I was. Especially when I was traditionally employed, every penny that I earned in freelance income was money that I didn't need to support myself. So every little bit of it went into savings. So I think a big part of it is figuring out where your hustle is going to be, or the other thing is learn how to negotiate. Learn how to either be reducing your bills to negotiating or earning more from your employer.

[OG]

Do you negotiate much?

[Erin Lowry]

Yes, constantly.

[OG]

Do you really? Tell me something that you've negotiated.

[Erin Lowry]

Negotiated two days ago to get better Internet speed at a cheaper price. I've been an rcn, which is the Internet here, customer for five years, and I had a really old modem, and I was noticing that my Internet was really lagging. So I called and said, hey, my one year just came up. I see you upped me $10, and I don't want to pay $71 a month for your service. I didn't word it quite like that, but I said I'm interested in moving up and how much Internet I take in. So I see this plan here that you have a deal on. Even though I've been a customer, I've been a loyal one, and I would hate to have to go over to Time Warner so perhaps we can work something out. And so now I'm paying less money for more Internet.

[OG]

Did they have to go ask their boss or was it instant?

[Erin Lowry]

No, it's interesting there. I found a lot of people are pretty empowered because a lot of them work on commissions. So as long as they have the capability to do that for you. I've done it a couple times with rcn, and it's never been a problem. And I always tell people, if you run into someone who says no, just say, okay, thanks. Hang up the phone and call back. Ten minutes later, you're going to get a different salesperson.

[OG]

Unbelievable. Number four on here, Paula. I really like this one. Throw bonus funds into your IRA money that you didn't think that you were going to have put that in your IRA and you're less likely to touch it.

[Paula Pant]

Yeah, absolutely. I'm a huge fan of that point because a lot of times, you know, people come into little amounts of money, like whether it's a commission check that you didn't expect to get, whether it's birthday money, whether it's whatever it might be, whether it's $10 or $100 or $1,000, it's money that you don't need. It's money that you didn't plan on having. So if you just funnel that into savings, it may not feel like much in the beginning, but if you make that a habit, then, you know, little habits over time grow into big things. And by the way, when I say savings, and this kind of goes to the point that Greg made earlier when he was talking about how a lot of people don't believe they don't view debt as the same thing as retirement savings. I tend to use the word savings very broadly to reference anything that improves your net worth. So whether that's literal savings in a savings account or debt reduction or retirement savings or investing in a taxable account, I mean, any. Any net worth improvement is a good thing.

[OG]

I always compare what I think future cash flow is going to be with then interest rates. So if I pay off this debt, I'm going to get 8%. That's like 8% of my money if I do that. So I think it's like an investment that pays me. It really isn't. But I like thinking about it that way for the same exact reason. The last one on here is ramp up your automated contributions. I'm not gonna spend any time on that. But I like that. If you don't think you can save much, just do the boil the frog approach where you slowly turn it up over time. And it's funny, as a financial planner, I would do this my. Our partner OG would do this too, where, you know, he'll say, well, let's just. Let's see if we can save $25 more. And then they meet again six months later. Let's see if we can save $25 more. And it's funny when you just save $25 more every time, you know, you don't even know where the money went.

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[OG]

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[OG]

All right, let's get back to our awesome conversation with Aaron Lowry, author of the hot new book Broke Millennial, Paula Pant from Afford anything and Greg McFarland, author of Control your Cash. Let's move on to the best piece of the evening, which comes to us from ABC News. This is from Lauren Efron. 7 Strange Ways to Make money. It's fantastic. And I know that all three of you have probably made money in some strange ways or you've heard people making money in strange ways. But let's start with some of these. Aaron, Any of these you especially like that you're like, oh, wow, that's a great way to make money.

[Erin Lowry]

Well, some of them make it clear. This was written in 2012 because like being a mommy blogger as an option, like, I don't know that that pays out what they think it does anymore as oversaturated area. But my favorite one, because I have a dog is number eight, which is rent out your stuff, even your dog. And I think that it would be a hilarious idea to use Mosby as like some sort of comfort dog, especially in New York where a lot of people can't have a dog in their apartment. They say, like, hey, if you come over, you can buy 30 minutes of cuddle time with my dog. I just think that's kind of hilarious.

[OG]

Would somebody actually pay for that, do.

[Erin Lowry]

You think there are people that actually loan themselves out as humans to cuddle with? You don't do anything other than cuddle. But it's for people who perhaps feel they're not getting enough intimate affection in a non sexual context and just want to cuddle or be held or hug. And there are people who earn money being professional cuddlers.

[OG]

Speaking of, speaking of sexual contacts, Greg, you've got that, you got that great radio voice. You ever think about becoming a phone sex operator, which is number three on this?

[Greg McFarlane]

I'm glad you started with someone else just so I know what's appropriate and what isn't when answering this question. First of all, was mommy blocking ever lucrative?

[OG]

Maybe for the first 10, yeah.

[Greg McFarlane]

And after that, diminishing returns. Not a phone sex operator, but I do have a it's a side business at this point. But yeah, I voice TV commercials. I voice radio commercials. I don't talk about it here because it's not terribly relevant to what I do. But for me, out of the same studio that we're in now, with a little more soundproofing and different software, I'm not saying everybody can do this, but it works for me. You put a script in front of me, how hard can it be? So, yeah, I guess that's using a talent as opposed to a skill. Something that was more born with and developed and not really breaking that much of a sweat to do it or even. Or even leaving my home.

[OG]

How did you get into that, Greg? Because people might want to know. Was it because you were in the advertising business and it was just a natural fit?

[Greg McFarlane]

The easiest way to get into it is to spend way too many years of your life underpaid as a radio disc jockey.

[OG]

Ah, right.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yep.

[OG]

What about selling stuff on ebay, Paul? Have you ever thought about doing that?

[Paula Pant]

I have occasionally sold a few items on ebay, not, not for the express purpose of making money, but just if there's an item that I want to get rid of that I think has a value that is high enough to justify my time. Yeah, I've posted that stuff on ebay. And actually ebay now has a service, it's called, it's ebay valet, where if you don't want to deal with taking photos and putting up the listing and all of that, you just throw your stuff into a box, send it to ebay, they'll take care of it for you, and then they'll cut you a check for some percentage of it.

[OG]

Maybe not making a lot of money, but you're getting rid of a lot of clutter.

[Paula Pant]

Yeah. And you know, by virtue of getting rid of clutter, I found that that makes me more mindful of future spending. Because now if I'm tempted to make some type of an impulse purchase, there's a moment where I hold that item in my hand and I think to myself, is this just going to become clutter that I have to throw away? And nine times out of 10, the answer is yes. And so I put the item back. So getting rid of clutter, counterintuitively, a lot of people hoard onto things because they have sunk cost fallacy and they believe, well, I've already paid for it. Therefore, the frugal thing to do is hold it counterintuitively. Getting rid of stuff actually has a positive effect on your net worth.

[OG]

Yeah, I always feel great too. I mean, I just, yeah, I feel zoned in. I'm going to leave these. I don't want to talk about hoarding pennies or getting rid of someone else's junk. What I'd really like to talk about are maybe bizarre jobs that you've heard of or bizarre jobs that you've had. Aaron, anything juicy when it comes to bizarre job World?

[Erin Lowry]

I think it was more of my behavior in a job that's not bizarre. But when I first moved to New York. So I think kind of calling back to Paula's point about anything that you're doing to save more or to increase your overall net worth. I was earning a little over $23,000 a year living in New York City, and I didn't want to rack up any debt. And one of the things I did to save was I was a barista at Starbucks. And anytime I had a closing shift, I would take home all the quote unquote expired foods, throw it in my freezer. And I lived off those paninis and bistro boxes and cake pops and what have you for a very, very long time. So the fact that my heart has not exploded from sodium intake is certainly interesting, but it's kind of, to me finding like, interesting, odd little loopholes that way as well. And I also started a pet sitting empire when I lived in Japan, so that's not that odd. But my sister and I was 10, my sister was 7. And we lived in an apartment building where all the expats would go to their home countries during the summer. And we, for my parents had decided we were staying in Japan that summer. So my sister and I volunteered to cat sit and dog sit people's animals all summer. And we each raked in about $1,000. Wow.

[OG]

What's the key to running a pet sitting empire?

[Erin Lowry]

Have a cute little sister that you can put on a flyer and then stick it up in the community board. And then also have your parents strong arm people into supporting you. No, I'm just kidding on that last one. But we actually just proactively went up to people we knew had pets and said, like, hey, we're going to be around. You want us to watch your dog?

[OG]

And they'd say yes. And you're good?

[Erin Lowry]

Yeah, sure.

[OG]

Greg, how about you?

[Greg McFarlane]

Oh, what the hell. It's not like anybody can see my face. Art classes, University of Toronto, modeling. It's just like the. It's just like the radio voiceover thing, except nothing moves, including the mouth.

[OG]

So you just said, wait, were you a nude model?

[Greg McFarlane]

25 bucks an hour, Paula.

[Erin Lowry]

Nice. I was waiting for that question to get asked. I'm gonna take that as a yes.

[Greg McFarlane]

Most students didn't giggle quite like that, but okay.

[OG]

Greg reveals pieces of himself every show that just never stop. Amazing me. That's 25 bucks an hour, though, man. That's good money.

[Greg McFarlane]

Canadian, but still.

[OG]

Yeah, right. Paula, how about you? Strange work.

[Paula Pant]

I was a mascot once.

[Erin Lowry]

That's awesome.

[Paula Pant]

Yes. I wore a dog costume that was also 25 bucks an hour. There's this island called Hilton Head island in South Carolina, and they have a restaurant called the Salty Dog Cafe.

[OG]

I've been there.

[Erin Lowry]

I've eaten there. I was the man mascot year.

[Paula Pant]

I was the Salty Dog. Oh, that would have been. Let me think. So that was in between my sophomore and junior years of college. So that would have been the summer of 2002.

[Erin Lowry]

Alas, not the year I was there.

[OG]

No, I was only there, like, I was only there, like, three years ago. So that's a huge restaurant, man. They do some cranking business.

[Paula Pant]

Totally. And I was the Salty Dog. I put on a dog mascot costume. It was super hot because it's South Carolina in the summertime. But I would strap these packets of ice to my chest, and, like, I had one packet of ice strapped around my forehead, and I'd pull on the costume, and I'd get out on the boardwalk and just dance around with the kids. And I had an employee who would, like, follow me around and, you know, basically hold my hand and make sure that I wasn't about to pass out from heat.

[OG]

Yeah, I had. It's funny you say that, because we went on a vacation when our kids were young to Mammoth Cave, and we. We stayed at the Jellystone KOA And I got to be Yogi Bear. And the guy who was the director, like, the campground, whatever director comes up to me says, hey, we'd like to have dads be Yogi Bear. You want to be Yogi Bear on the hayride? Like, oh, hell yeah, I want to be Yogi Bear. So he takes me to the little Yogi House about 20 minutes before.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And you're right.

[OG]

They put packets of ice. And I thought, man, these packets of ice are overkill. They totally aren't overkill, are they, Paula?

[Paula Pant]

Oh, no, not at all. Like, at least once every 15 minutes, I would have to go take my head off and stand in the walk in freezer.

[OG]

Right. Well, I didn't have that opportunity, but by the end, I was a pile of sweat. And both of these ice belts were completely just they were hot water by then, but they walked me out. The kids are cheering. I'm the last one on. Like you. I had a handler that was a person. I sit down. You know, Yogi Bear has this little tie. I sit down and I'm clapping as they're singing songs and we're going around the campground picking up people and this, this little kid sits next to me and all of a sudden my head gets yanked straight down and you can't see anything through those stupid little holes. So I have no idea what's going on. And I kind of hear laughing as my head goes back up and then I get yanked back down again and I come back up and I get kicked back down again. I look over this little. We're just going to call him, for lack of a better term, this little has a hold of my tie and he's yanking and his dad is sitting next to him laughing his head off. And I look over at my handler like, please, God, save me because somebody's going to get some YouTube video of Yogi Bear going off on some seven year old and yeah, it was, it was, it was, it was pretty horrible. I was glad to take it off. Still remember that kid. And that was a while ago. Yeah. Thanks for bringing up the trauma by the way. We need a mascot for this show, Paula, so let's talk afterwards.

[Paula Pant]

Oh, dude, wait. Would I be Benjamin? Would I be like.

[OG]

Absolutely.

[Paula Pant]

What would I be? What is the mascot?

[OG]

We could. I have no idea. Benjamin. It's got to be Benjamin. So you'll be.

[Paula Pant]

Yeah, yeah, it's gotta be Benjamin.

[OG]

You'll be. We'll take you to fincon as. As Benjamin walking around.

[Paula Pant]

That would be awesome.

[OG]

Benny P. That would be crazy. All right, I think on that note, that very important note, we're going to. I bet everybody's glad they stayed for that last section. Let's, let's talk about what you kids are doing in your world and yes.

[Paula Pant]

Wait, Joe, do you offer 25 an hour for that?

[OG]

Next question. Yeah, I'm learning from Aaron Lowry that you have to negotiate everything, Paula.

[Paula Pant]

So I'm 25 an hour, adjusted for inflation.

[Erin Lowry]

Yeah, call out.

[OG]

How about 25 an hour Canadian? Yeah. Because Canadian dollars have really dropped, Greg. So now you know, paying in Canadians a bigger steal than it was when.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You were doing that.

[Greg McFarlane]

I want to know if Paula knows who Yogi Berra is.

[Erin Lowry]

I know. And I'm the young duck.

[Paula Pant]

Yogi Bear is the cartoon character. Yogi Berra was like a baseball player or something. Nailed it.

[OG]

What the hell happened to her, Greg? Are you on some kind of medication, Paula? How did you get that?

[Erin Lowry]

Right?

[Paula Pant]

I'm just, you know, I'm able to retrieve more information from my brain when I'm given the opportunity to be a mascot.

[Greg McFarlane]

There it goes.

[Paula Pant]

She's my calling in life, Ray.

[OG]

She's on a high. Paula, let's stick with you. What's happening in Afford Anything right about now?

[Paula Pant]

So the Afford Anything podcast has an awesome interview with Erin Lowry that if you haven't checked that out, you should. The Afford Anything blog I have not posted to for, like, two months, and I'm very embarrassed and ashamed about that. But by the time this episode airs, that fact will have changed. So I am planning, if all goes according to plan, that by the time this episode comes out, there will be a post on the Afford Anything blog in which I go over the last five months of my rental property income report. So check that [e-mail].

[OG]

What'S cool is we're going to get to Aaron here in a couple seconds, but Aaron is also going to be kicking off the next eight weeks. We got next week off. She'll be the star of the show Monday, when we come back, talking about Broke Millennial. And I heard your awesome interview, Paula, and it's fantastic because we did something completely different. So, people, you should listen to that interview on Afford Anything and then come over to Stacking Benjamin's and listen to ours, because I think between the two of us, we got Aaron Lowry to give up a lot of the goods.

[Paula Pant]

It's true.

[Erin Lowry]

We did a real deep dive.

[OG]

Yeah, that's right, Greg, what's going on at. Well, at your house, besides hawking the best book that Len Penzo's ever read?

[Greg McFarlane]

That'd be Control youl Cash Making Money Makes Sense, available now at Amazon. I would have posted something this week, but right now I'm just traumatized and devastated by the disclosure that Paula has not posted to her blog in two entire months. That just strikes me as kind of unprofessional.

[OG]

I know what's going on there, Pam.

[Paula Pant]

I know.

[Erin Lowry]

Yeah.

[Paula Pant]

Yeah, I suck.

[Greg McFarlane]

That's an eternity.

[OG]

Yeah, well, Greg, here's what happens. You get yourself a podcast, and who cares about the blog?

[Greg McFarlane]

Exactly. That's why I have a pod. I don't know, have a podcast.

[OG]

No, but you could. You got all the equipment. But anyway, that would be. I would. I would listen to that. Aaron Lowry, thanks for hanging out with us.

[Erin Lowry]

Yeah, thanks so much for having me. It's been fun.

[OG]

Well, I thought half the time you're wondering what the hell am I doing here. But, but tell us a little bit about the book broke Millennial, because people can pre order this thing, right?

[Erin Lowry]

You can. And I'll throw in an incentive. If you pre order and send proof of proof of purchase. I'm letting my words there to infookemillennial.com and then I will send you a free bonus chapter of the book. So you actually would then get the book in its original entirety before I got very verbose and my publisher said, we can't publish a 350 page book, Aaron. It will overwhelm people.

[OG]

Well, that's fantastic. That's cool. So, you know what if you're driving down the road or you're out walking the dog, I'll have a link to [e-mail] at our show Notes. Thanks for playing, everybody.

[Greg McFarlane]

Thank you.

[Erin Lowry]

Thanks.

[Paula Pant]

Thank you.

[OG]

Oh, that's gonna do it for today, everybody. Hey, let's talk about what's coming up on the show and also give you a little behind the scenes about stuff happening in the basement. But first, let's talk about the game that we play. We're playing a game. If you're new to the show, you might not have any clue what our game is all about, but for the past six weeks, I've been playing a game on the Friday shows. Oh, gee, my partner on this podcast isn't here. So I entertain myself and bring you along with me. And here's the deal. In this particular game, if you look at the title and maybe the show description, the first few sentences that I say, you might find something that's a little awkward or weird. And if you take those awkward or weird things from the past six weeks and kind of add them together, you start thinking to yourself, how well, what is it that's going on here that doesn't seem to fit exactly. Put those together, email me how they do fit together, and guess what happens. You'll be eligible for a big prize pack that we put together especially for you. We've had people guess it, but they're all people that have won the game before. So if, if you think you've got it, time to step up because this will end the game and I'm just gonna have to give it to one of the people that have won before. But we definitely, we're gonna give them a prize, but we also want to give one to somebody new to the game. So go back, check that out. Today's show and also past Friday episodes. Speaking of episodes, we're out of here for the next week. That doesn't mean there's nothing coming up for you. We got good stuff coming up next week. Griffin the intern. We call him the Fin Turn.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

See what we did there?

[OG]

Griffin comes down and cleans up our mess for a week. We take a much needed week to recharge the batteries and get ready for another eight weeks of awesome, awesome shows. But next week he digs into the archives and play some of our best past episodes. All right, that is next week. And then we're going to talk about lessons from the Broke Millennial, how to change from being broke to having more of a wealth mindset. That kicks off our next eight weeks on Wednesday. When we return, Mary Polon, who has written for the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, just about everybody. She wrote a book a couple years ago called the Monopolist, and it's the real story of how Monopoly was made. We're kicking it off with Erin Lowry and Mary Palan when we return in two weeks. So enjoy next week with Griffin the intern. We'll see you back here in two weeks. Stacking more Benjamins.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Special thanks to Erin Lowry. You can find her book Broke Millennial at the aptly named brokemillennial.com or head to stackingbenjamins.com where we'll have a link waiting for you. Special thanks to Brett Crosby from Peer Street. You can find out more about their unique brand of real estate investing at or on our show [e-mail] this show is the property of SB Podcasts, LLC. The show is created by Joe Sal Sehei, produced by Richie Rutter Reese and engineered by Steve Stewart. SB Podcasts may receive payment on the show from sponsors and guests in the form of books, giveaway items, discounts, or other remuneration. There's no way you would take advice from these dorks, but like Joe's mom always says, don't take advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only, and before making any financial moves, consult with a real financial advisor. The fintern will be taking over next week while the rest of us. Refresh me. I'm setting up camp down at the Sizzler, so if you're looking to split a spinach and artichoke dip, I know a guy. Don't you worry your little heads. I'll be back in a week, though. See ya.

[OG]

You still here?

[Steve Stewart]

It's over. Go home. Go.