Work Less, Live More AND Perform Better at Your Job (SB1739)

Summary

The Stacking Benjamins Show

Episode SB1739: Work Less, Live More AND Perform Better at Your Job

Date: September 24, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode of The Stacking Benjamins Show, hosts Joe Saul-Sehy and OG sit down with Shemin Nur Muhammad, an accomplished executive and author of "The Paris Paradox," to explore how adopting French attitudes towards work-life balance can allow us to work less, perform better, and simply enjoy life more. Drawing from her cross-continental career and personal life lessons, Shemin challenges the American tendency to glorify overwork, sharing practical strategies to recharge, connect, and restructure both professional and personal lives for richer, fuller living.

The episode also features insights into what you should do if your financial advisor changes firms—a common event that can leave clients confused or concerned. As always, plenty of humor, previewed banter, listener community shoutouts, and finance trivia keep things engaging.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The True Cost of Wasted Vacation (07:13)

• Statistic Highlight: Americans waste a staggering 765 million vacation days per year, according to Forbes.
• Main Impact: Shemin emphasizes the personal and business costs, citing mental health consequences and massive losses in productivity and dollars.

  “I think it’s burnout...much more personal cost which then costs also the business billions of dollars…In fact, I had to go individual by individual, making sure they [my team] took some so that we could work as a group correctly.”
  — Shemin Nur Muhammad (07:46)

2. Learning from French Work Culture (08:30–12:39)

• Shemin’s Story: Her supposed honeymoon trip to Vancouver became a surprise move to Paris without her ability to work, launching her on the journey that inspired her research and new book.
• First Impressions: Initial resistance to French annual leave—the entire country seeming to "shut down" in August—gave way to appreciation for how slowing down improved relationships and well-being.

  “I just thought, what kind of backward culture have I come into? But you did feel a lot more laid back. People were enjoying time with each other…took the time to smell the roses…”
  — Shemin Nur Muhammad (11:25)

3. The Paradox: More Time Off, Greater Productivity (13:20–18:35)

• French Paradox: France systematically ranks as one of the world’s most productive countries—even with their generous vacation policies.
• The Power of Lunch: Shemin shares a formative experience at IBM in Paris, where extended, cross-functional lunches fostered personal connections and solved work problems much faster.

  “As I sat down…people just didn’t want to talk about work. They wanted to connect in some way... almost like a 70/30 rule—70% the conversation’s really around a personal subject and then 30% around work. What was really shocking—my predecessor couldn’t solve [a problem] in four months, and yet…in a 90-minute lunch, it was solved.”
  — Shemin Nur Muhammad (15:24, 17:57)

4. Unlocking the Benefits of True Time Away (20:13–23:32)

• French Rule: French employees must take three consecutive weeks off in summer, a shock for most Americans.
• Three-Week Vacation Structure:
  • Week 1: Unwind
  • Week 2: Pure relaxation and innovative thinking
  • Week 3: Prepare to return
• Workplace Impact: Rested teams debate more productively and collaborate better:

  “When you’ve had those three weeks…it is incredible, the breakthrough thinking, the innovative thinking that occurs because your two hemispheres of your brain start to connect in a different way…Once I had everyone well rested…the type of team that we created together was a powerhouse.”
  — Shemin Nur Muhammad (21:56, 23:17)

5. How to Advocate for (and Structure) Extended Time Off (24:01–28:38)

• Don’t Dump on Your Boss: Set up backup structures among colleagues. Leaders benefit from seeing who’s ready to step up.
• Vacation Buddy System: Pair with another employee to ensure coverage and cross-train.
• Small Business Insights: French bakeries close for weeks, believing that short-term losses are outweighed by preserved health and quality.

  “Anything you can delegate, you should…only the things where you can personally make a difference—those are the meetings you should be in.”
  — Shemin Nur Muhammad (30:24)

6. Leverage, Connection, and the “Who Not How” Principle (32:25–37:24)

• Schedule Thinking Time: Shemin shares Lou Gerstner’s advice to block work time for deep thinking, not just meetings.
• Reclaiming Weekends: Use tools and social connections to create real downtime—utilize online ordering, share tasks with friends.

  “Anywhere you can use leverage, I would use it…We would, we would share the workload. So it’s just finding those moments…Because a lot of times I find here in the US people don’t want to ask for help.”
  — Shemin Nur Muhammad (33:43, 35:07)

7. Tapping into Social Connections at Work and in Life (36:16–45:10)

• Easier Than You Think: Building community starts with small gestures; Shemin’s neighborly example turned an awkward introduction into mutual support.
• Professional Relationships: True connections, not transactionality, create long-lasting career opportunities.

  “The more you can be the antithesis of [transactional relationships] and the more French-like you can be…the first contacts after this transition were from France because they kept a lookout…relationships will be long term.”
  — Shemin Nur Muhammad (41:52)

8. Audience Q&A & Book Recommendation (45:39)

• Book Title Correction: The book is “The Paris Paradox: Embracing French Ideals of Leisure to Transform American Work-Life Balance.”

  “Initially, the title was supposed to be Why the French Always Have Time For Lunch. But…we went with The Paris Paradox, which I love.”
  — Shemin Nur Muhammad (45:13)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We experience so much loneliness, we feel isolated…yet it was the personal connection…that did it. Ask who, not how.”
  — Joe Saul-Sehy (18:35)

• “You have to start saying no to things in order for people to value your time.”
  — Shemin Nur Muhammad (30:24)

• “If you have a good relationship with your advisor…you should say, ‘Okay.’ But hopefully it’s something very simple, like we can do this at a lower cost for you.”
  — OG on financial advisors changing firms (58:39)

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• [07:02] Interview with Shemin Nur Muhammad begins
• [07:46] The real cost of unused vacation time
• [13:20] Productivity paradox: How French get more done, work less
• [14:40] The 90-Minute French Lunch—connection over efficiency
• [20:13] Why 3-week vacations are transformative
• [24:01] Structuring time off so your boss (and team) love it
• [32:25] Scheduling “thinking time” and reclaiming the weekend
• [36:16] Building meaningful connections (neighbors, coworkers)
• [41:52] Career-long value of genuine professional relationships
• [45:10] “The Paris Paradox” book discussion

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Financial Headline: What to Do When Your Advisor Changes Firms (52:20–63:18)

• Understanding the Process: Advisors can only bring basic contact info when moving. Clients typically get outreach from both old and new firms.

• Key Considerations:

  • Assess if your relationship with the advisor is valuable enough to warrant following them.
  • Be aware of potential tax consequences, especially around proprietary products.
  • OG’s advice: If your advisor is an important part of your financial team, it’s about them, not the firm.

  “If the advisor moves from UBS to LPL and it is a valuable relationship, it should be a no brainer. It should have nothing to do with UBS or LPL.”
  — Joe Saul-Sehy (62:48)

• Helpful Litmus Test:

  “If you feel like this is a person I want to have a couple beers with or I would trust to take care of my dog over the weekend, then that's probably somebody that you match up well with.”
  — Doug (63:29)

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Listener Community & Fun (64:13 onward)

• Hosts highlight engaging stories and posts from the show's vibrant Facebook community.
• Topics include skepticism about “rules-of-thumb” for retirement savings, the value of fan fiction and pop finance, and the importance of non-transactional relationships (with lots of playful banter).

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Tone & Style

Lighthearted, conversational, and full of practical wisdom. The approach is to make financial literacy fun and emotionally resonant, blending data with anecdotes (French vacations, neighborly chocolate, and all). Humor and relatability keep even technical discussions approachable.

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Key Takeaways

• Vacations & Breaks Aren’t Indulgences—They’re Essential: They lead to real productivity, innovation, and resilience at work.
• Connection Beats Transaction: Sharing lunch—and life—with coworkers and neighbors lays the groundwork for happier, more effective work and community life.
• Be Proactive in Creating Balance: Take the lead on structuring your own time off and building support systems.
• Reevaluate Workplace Norms: More hours don’t mean more output; saying “no” and delegating are crucial.
• Financial Relationships Are About Trust, Not Brand: When your advisor moves, focus on who supports your goals—not just the institution.

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Further Resources

• “The Paris Paradox: Embracing French Ideals of Leisure to Transform American Work-Life Balance” by Shemin Nur Muhammad — now available.
• StackingBenjamins.com — for show notes and community
• Podcast Facebook Group — join the conversation

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For further support and episode details, refer to the official show notes at stackingbenjamins.com.

Transcript

[Joe Salce]

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[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

Good morning Christopher Robin.

[Joe Salce]

Oh, good morning Winnie the Pooh.

[Doug]

Live from Joe's mom's basement, it's the Stacking Benjamin Show. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor Doug. And how would you like to work less, enjoy life more and still love your job? Shemin Nur Muhammad has lived that life and will share with you how she created a well rounded existence so you can as well. And in our headline segment, what should you'd do if your advisor moves firms? We'll share a current case study of one firm on the move as we speak. And as if that's not plenty of fun for you, I'll also share some of my soon to be world famous trivia. And now here come two guys who know that while seasons change, smart money moves never go out of style.

[Joe Salce]

And if you didn't get that from the Monday show and investment policy statements, good money. It is all weather like a good tire. Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Stacking Benjamin Show. I am Joe Salce. You know what, I was just out west in Oregon guys. They had.

[OG]

How west were you? Oh, is that not.

[Joe Salce]

I was so far west I was by Mount Hood and they had arms.

[Doug]

Tired from the flight back.

[Joe Salce]

They had areas where you can stop and put chains on your tires. Like that's how up and down these roads were. Exciting, huh?

[OG]

Cool.

[Joe Salce]

Wow. Neat.

[Doug]

Thanks for sharing that Joe.

[Joe Salce]

Do you want me to email you the rest of that story please? God was super good. We got a great show today guys. It's Going to be an hour of financial goodness. So sit back and relax. Oh, gee. How you doing today?

[OG]

Just living the dream, buddy.

[Joe Salce]

Doug?

[Doug]

I'm satisfactory.

[Joe Salce]

There's so on. Just, just give me the Monday guys back. Can I get the money? Can you replacements go back in your hole and bring back the, the Monday guys who are so charming and so great. So let's get into it. Today's mentor is very, very special one because we talk often about how it's not just about having more money, it's about having more life. Using this money as a tool to give you more life. And a woman who has lived that is Sheman Nurhamedad. Not only has she been a senior executive at both Pitney Bowles and at IBM, among others, she also has a phenomenal TED video on this very topic of creating more life. She has a new project out and I, I had to dig, by the way, to make sure that she could come on our show. You have no idea how we were able to finally get this interview hooked up for today, but I'll tell you who this is for. If you're somebody that feels like you're working too much, you feel like you're burnout, and maybe you're somebody that thinks that when it comes to the fire movement, the best option is just to drop out. But you also have this doubt that dropping out is really what you're looking for. Well, Shemin is definitely the mentor for you because she has explored some relationships between work and money and how to make that much less toxic a hell of a lot more fun and to increase your ability to have a lot more fun outside of work. So how about that for today? Can't wait for you to hear it. Shemin or Hamadan coming down to mom's basement. But before that, we have some sponsors that keep us keeping on keeping on. We're going to hear from them and then Shebin and I are going to dive into the paradox of working less, enjoying more, and still getting more done. This episode is brought to you by Navy Federal Credit Union. With rising housing prices and steeper mortgage rates, we know homeownership may seem too expensive to be achievable. But that's why we offer a Home Buyer's Choice loan that can open the door to affordable homeownership. Our Home Buyer's Choice loan has no down payment options available, which means you don't need to wait years to save money. And with our no refi rate drop, you might be able to lower your rate in the future without refinancing plus, while most lenders require borrowers to purchase private mortgage insurance unless they can make a 20% down payment, we don't require PMI. Finally, we offer fixed payments, so your monthly payment will always be the same. So if you're looking for your first home or your next home, you can open the door with a Navy Federal Home Buyer's Choice loan. Visit navy federal.org to learn how you can achieve homeownership. Navy Federal Credit Union Our members are the mission. Terms and conditions apply. Equalizing lender loans subject to approval and eligibility requirements. Learn more@navy federal.org Thursday Night Football is.

[OG]

On, and it's only on Prime Video. This week, the Seattle Seahawks face the Arizona Cardinals in an NFC west showdown. How deep will Seattle test Arizona's defense? Can Arizona wear down the Seahawks front? It'll be an exciting game to show who has the most discipline on both.

[Joe Salce]

Sides of the ball.

[OG]

Coverage begins at 7pm Eastern with Football's Best Party TNF tonight presented by Verizon. Not a Prime member? Not a problem. Simply sign up for a 30 day free trial. It's the Seahawks and the Cardinals Thursday at 7pm Eastern only on Prime Video.

[Doug]

Restrictions apply.

[OG]

See Amazon.com Amazon prime for details.

[Joe Salce]

And look who's coming down the stairs now. I'm super happy she's here with us. Chevy Muhammad is here. How are you?

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

I'm great, Joe. Thank you for having me on the in your basement here.

[Joe Salce]

You don't get to say that often, do you? No, I'm sure. Highlight, highlight of your career. I have a stat specifically from your latest project. I knew we waste a lot of vacation days. I didn't realize how many vacation days a year we waste. This is according to forbes, Americans weigh 765 million million vacation days a year. Let me say that again. 765 million vacation days a year we waste. What's the real cost of that?

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

Well, having been a president now in Europe and in the US I think it's mental health, right? I think it's burnout. I think it's a much more personal cost which then costs also the business billions of dollars in various ways. One of the experiences I had as I moved here was the team I was given was completely burnt out. And when I asked about when their next vacation was, most of them hadn't even planned it. I actually had to go individual by individual, making sure they took some so that we could work as a group correctly. But I do believe that the cost is not only personal, but from a business perspective is in the billions of dollars for the US alone.

[Joe Salce]

Well, the reason I wanted to talk to you was, and you specifically is because you have lived. I'm going to call it an experiment. I don't think it is an experiment as much as I think it's very proven because a lot of other people live this way. But you've been able to bridge American and French lifestyles. But this whole journey. This whole journey, and I laughed when I read this, by the way, started with your husband surprising you with what you thought was just a trip to Paris.

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

That's right. We were supposed to move to Vancouver to be closer to his family. I was finishing up an assignment in London and coming back and everything's packed and I think we're going on our first year honeymoon anniversary kind of thing. And on the trip, he had already signed a contract and that was actually our move into Paris. He signed a French contract, not speaking French. And in the contract, it actually said that I had no right to work there.

[Joe Salce]

Oh, no.

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

Yes.

[Joe Salce]

I was just thinking about in my own relationship, if I had done that with Cheryl, she would have strangled me on the plane. Like on the plane. I mean, she would have. I wouldn't have made it out alive. You make a point in your book that your husband is a wonderful man and you have a great, great relationship. But I got to believe at that moment you wanted to throttle him.

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

I did. I did. The stewardesses were definitely concerned on that flight. However, it does turned out to be a great experiment. We have improved our level of communication. In fact, he's the director of communications now. I think with all of the lessons we've learned through our lives.

[Joe Salce]

Wow, that's cool. So you get to France, you can't work. What do you do?

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

I don't take no for an answer. I start sending out resumes, knocking on doors. And all of my experience, even though I was a chemistry major, all of my experience was in finance. So of course I'm knocking on doors of banks. I think I sent out 300 resumes, got rejected by all 300, laughed at, you know, and then I was told, but you've never studied finance. There's no way you can work in finance in France. So when that didn't work, and because they said I also needed a work permit, I tried going and getting a work permit. But of course, what do you need for a work permit? You need a job. So it was a bit of a catch 22.

[Joe Salce]

It's a complete catch 22.

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

It was, yes. And what wound up happening is through a confluence of unexpected events. I wound up meeting the principal of a school, and she just lost her chemistry teacher to the Sorbonne. And when she asked me if I could teach chemistry in French and English, and I said yes, even though I hadn't, you know, looked at a chemistry book since college, the interview was teaching a class the following day, which I did, and that's how I got my permit.

[Joe Salce]

What were your first impressions of French culture?

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

Well, when you get to France and we went there in August, August is a very interesting month in France. First of all, half the stores are closed. They have this huge sign on the door saying Cong, or basically their annual leave. And I'm thinking, how can a country like this work right where half the people are gone? Our furniture wasn't coming. You couldn't buy furniture and get it moved on time. So I just thought, what kind of backward culture have I come into? But you did feel a lot more laid back. People were enjoying time with each other. You felt maybe a slowness, like people took the time to smell the roses, or in this particular case, pere a chocolat and croissants from the bakeries. The second one. And I know when I meet people, often they'll say, I went to France and the French are rude. That's actually not true. I think if you go to France expecting everyone to treat you like you are in the US Then yes, they are rude. But if you make a small, even like just a tiny attempt of a sentence, you know, something that shows that you've made an effort. They are the nicest individuals around.

[Joe Salce]

I never found them to be rude either, except in the highly tourist areas. And my, my takeaway is if I went to Times Square and people were rude, I would just shake it off and go, it's Manhattan. You know, it is. It is Times Square. I go to Paris. I think maybe Americans take it the wrong way because they're rude to us in a different language. I don't. I don't know.

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

I know. But I think if anyone just tries to, you know, take a lesson or two on duolingo and use it, they're the nicest people. They'll actually walk you to where you're trying to get to, even in the shondisay. So I just think it's that small effort that they're hoping people are going to make.

[Joe Salce]

Well, speaking of effort, you're looking at this perceived lack of effort. As an American, you see these people and they seem to be not working nearly as hard as the Americans. And yet you because of your business experience, you look at the productivity numbers and productivity numbers are, are, are really not much different.

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

That's right. In fact, the reason that I started looking at the subject was because when I look at this paradox that I see, and I would say it's the second one, the first one is why people aren't obese in France, given their diet. But the second paradox is I did expect people to enjoy life. I did expect them to have the vacations. What I didn't expect that systematically they'd been the top 10 productive countries and in the world. And so that was a very complex problem for me to solve. And as I sat down and started noting the small things, the small tweaks they did day to day, which really helped in long term productivity, I was shocked. One of the examples that, you know, I've shared, Joe, is around the first time I was pulled into a lunch at IBM.

[Joe Salce]

I was just about to ask you about this because I think this encompasses so many of the lessons you learned all in one lunch.

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

Exactly. I mean, first of all, I will tell you that not going across the street getting a sandwich and coming back was already stressful enough. But when I was pulled down and just the time in line took me the same amount of time I would have finished my sandwich, my palms actually started to sweat.

[Joe Salce]

Can I stop you for just a second? Because it does seem strange hearing it that as Americans were so used to this is, even for our Canadian listeners. I don't think it's much different there either. You're sweating because you feel like you're wasting time.

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

That's right.

[Joe Salce]

You think about what is less stressful than having a nice leisurely lunch. And yet you can't enjoy the leisurely lunch because you're thinking, I got so much crap to do that I got to give back.

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

That's exactly right. Even deciding on a main entree and a main and a dessert, I was like, how are we going to finish this in like less than a half an hour? As I sat down and they were almost like benches. So you're blocked in. You can't really move unless you're taking everyone out. I just decided to kind of give in. And I thought, okay, we'll just talk about work, so at least it will be productive. Right. This whole notion of productivity was there and people just didn't want to talk about work. They wanted to connect in some way. Right. So I kept getting questions around. Did I own pets? What age were my kids? Where did I take my last vacation? Can someone Help me with this allocation methodology that I have to go solve. What I noticed later is they were just trying to find a connection point. And for me, that became the anchor conversation with that individual. So for example, I had a golden retriever and so did someone else. And so pets became kind of our anchor conversation. And if we found something or realized something really cool, we would share that with each other when we met. So in each particular instance, they're trying to find that connection point. But then what's happened quite by accident. There's almost like a 70, 30 rule. You know, 70% of the conversation's really around a personal subject and then 30% is around work. So as I started talking about a problem, someone said, hey, you just have to talk to Pierre right there. And they called him and I was like waiting. They said, no, no, no, later, after he fin finishes, we'll talk about it. And what was really shocking is because the table was cross functional, a lot of people from different departments, they weren't all from finance the way I was. You really got a broader sense and a deeper knowledge of the company as well. And not only that, you understood the why of different things so that you actually just became much more productive and you knew who to go to. So rather than having a meeting or 10 in some cases, or 20, to really get to that person who actually has the knowledge, we got it done in one seating. So it saved a lot of time in the long run.

[Joe Salce]

Did you write that you had two more weeks to go to come up with this answer and you had no idea how the heck you were going to do it in two weeks? And yet in a 90 minute lunch, really, what sounds like a five minute conversation after a 90 minute lunch, you'd solved it?

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

Yeah, in fact, not only I had even longer to be able to solve it. My predecessor couldn't solve it in four months. They couldn't get to the bottom of it in four months. And yet, you know, within a couple of minutes it was solved. I didn't have an idea I was going to spend a lot of time on it. I had sectioned, you know, probably close to 10 hours of meetings around this subject in every possible iteration in order for me to be able to get to the right answer. But I didn't need any of that. I just needed someone who understood the problem and actually took the time to understand the question I was trying to answer and why.

[Joe Salce]

And it's funny you write that we experience so much loneliness, we feel isolated and in our work, clearly, if I grab the sandwich in 20 minutes. I'm isolated. If I have a conversation that's not about work, which you were, you freak out. You're like, we should be talking about work because I've got so much work to do. And yet it was the personal connection with a person you'd never met who is able to introduce you to another person that you would have never met had you not met this person that did it. It's funny, I had a, I had a mentor recently who said to me, this is maybe seven or eight years ago, and I wish I'd learned this before I was in my 50s. They said, ask who, not how. Don't ask how to do something. Ask who is the person. Because then they will know your learning style, they'll know a little bit more about you, they'll know about the, the problem more and they can kind of cut to the chase. And yet I think about the work life that we have in America. It's very difficult to have those who's. Because we're so focused on the problem and we're not focused on my new friend's golden retriever as an example. There's so many different things to unpack. I want to start with the first one in. In this 90 minute lunch you talk about, one of the first paradoxes is, is that time away is really important. And we started this discussion by talking about just a huge amount of time off that we waste in this country. We get it, we still don't take it that time away. How long should we aim for to try to take as a vacation, if at all possible, to actually begin recharging? Is it a couple days? Is it the 90 minute lunch?

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

I think each mini time off is good, but the French have a rule actually sometime between May and September, you have to take three consecutive weeks. That was a huge surprise to me. And in fact I wasn't doing that for the first few years of my French working career. There are various historical reasons as to why that's true. But after you've taken your first three week vacation, it's very hard to go back. Because what you notice is the first week, it actually almost takes you a week to unwind completely, to get to a complete relaxed state where your parasympathetic nervous system is the dominant one. And that's where all of the repair and the healing of your body occurs. The second week is bliss. There is no other word for it. It is simply bliss. It's where you aren't thinking about what's coming up because you have Enough time, you aren't thinking about what you just left because you've just unwound. And it is spectacular. And I think that is where the true magic happens. And then the third week, you're kind of preparing mentally to come back. What I noticed around that is when you've had those three weeks, it is incredible, the breakthrough thinking, the innovative thinking that occurs because your two hemispheres of your brain start to connect in a different way. It creates those unexpected and the quantum leaps in terms of new thought versus incrementalism. So I think the three weeks is ideal once a year. I know that people, when I told them that here, they looked at me like, I don't even get three weeks. What are you talking about?

[Joe Salce]

Like, the way I just looked at you when you said that.

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

Exactly, exactly. But most people do get at least two. You can sometimes buy a third week. So, for example, at Picnic Bowes, the company where I work, you can actually go and buy a week. And I think it's worth it, to be honest. But as long as you take it, I would take at least two thirds of it consecutively, whatever vacation you have, and try to manage it that way and, you know, revolve your family vacations around that because it becomes such a great bonding event. It also creates the memories and the happiness and just the community that you need. Both a familial community, but also to your extended community as well. It's just you interact differently. So, again, taking the case of when I first came into the teams here in the US What I noticed is people got triggered very easily. You know, you'd make a comment and people would take it very personally. And I think when you're exhausted, it's very hard to think clearly. It's triggered easily because you're just tired. So once I had everyone well rested, the type of team that we created together was a powerhouse one, because you could engage in really active debate without taking it personally, understanding the context and the why of why we're trying to do this. And it was so much more collaborative because people came from a place that was much more centered and secure and happy.

[Joe Salce]

To be honest, I'm thinking about our stackers who are out walking the dog listening to you and me, and they're going, oh, this sounds great, but there's no way my boss would let me take two weeks in a row. My role is way too important to take two weeks in a row. So I think there's some. There's some shifting that may have to happen. How do we set the stage with our boss that this is going to be in my boss's favor as well as in all of our favor to have me take two weeks in a row.

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

One of the things that's really important, so I've given a couple of pointers of how a leader can do it. But one of the things that's important if you're the one who wants to take it is, is you can't put the onus on your boss, right, in terms of doing the work for you. So I think the first thing you have to do is make sure that your team or your peers know enough to be able to handle a particular workload while you're away. Because there has to be some kind of a backup, right? It's bad for the company if there isn't. In fact, with certain banks in the uk, they force people to go away for the three weeks because they want to test whether all of the systems work. I think it's actually a month because otherwise there is an issue around the continuity of the business in the guise of business continuity. It's a really good framework to give the boss. The second is they get to know the next generation of leaders and get to know their capacity, especially if you want to move up. This is another question that comes up. In fact, one of the people who work for me, they were surprised at how quickly I was moving up. And the reason was, is because I always had a great series of deputies who could take over my role. So my boss never had to worry about what do I do without her here. Instead they'd say, oh wow, she's trained someone else here, I can move her here, right? So they didn't have to do the work. And part of it is because when I was on vacation, they this person could take decisions. Now, I also had a very clear understanding with the individual to say, I'm not going to look at email while I'm on vacation. That has been a standard practice with me and my team. First, they were very shocked around it because who doesn't want to wake up and look at their phone? I don't, by the way, but what I said was, of course emergencies can occur. I will look at my SMSs and I will have my phone, but tell me exactly the time and the day of when the email came through because I will only go to that particular one to solve that particular piece. Now, what's interesting is teams will never want to contact you because that means they can't solve it for themselves, which means that they aren't Ready for the next step. So in my five years now working here in the US I've only had that call a handful of times. It's incredible. If you also show that respect to people, they'll do the same. And then one of my key tricks is to pair people up. For example, I have a CTO and a cpo. Effectively, they can never go on vacation at the same time. One of them's the backup of the other. So I said, whoever wants to go on vacation, it's fine. You can take all of your vacation, you can take a little bit more if you want. But the thing is, you can never be out at the same time. So it's first come, first serve. So by end of January, everyone's vacation's planned for the year and they get better ticket prices because they've planned for it right in advance. But it works. It also builds great teamwork between the two teams that often have the most conflict because their leaders are representing each other with the teams. And so there's a natural amount of trust and confidence that gets built.

[Joe Salce]

I love that. This ability of people being able to step into, into other roles, being able to, to ask people to step up as a leader, to help out, kind of to play, test them for a little bit, give them a little bit more responsibility for a short amount of time. I also like something that you mentioned in the book, and you kind of mentioned it here too, which was this idea of a work buddy that I'll cover your vacation if you cover mine. And I think if you're not the leader, to suggest that to your boss, that a, we can help each other by learning each other's roles and we can also cover for each other. I think that's fantastic. But I also love your point that there's got to be some strategy. You can't just leave for three weeks and go away and not have the team set up ready to succeed.

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

That's right. And it's your responsibility to set that up. It's not someone else's. The other thing that I found really interesting, Joe, is in the US the biggest pushback I get is from small businesses. They say, well, I'm running a small business. There's no way I could go on vacation. I can't afford. I would lose. I can't afford it. I'm going to lose money. So I actually thought a lot about this and I often do my thinking with French bakeries because I find that chocolate tends to, you know, the magnesium or something in chocolate just does wonders for me. And my favorite one is that.

[Joe Salce]

I'm sorry, for me, it's just that smell when I walk in. Oh, yeah, you just have me at the smell. But anyway, that's it.

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

So my favorite one is Raphael's, which is around the corner from me. They're a French bakery. The thing that struck me as odd was when I went there, and August is kind of one of the most beautiful times around here. We have a lot of tourists. It's very, very busy. And I went for my, you know, my regular Saturday morning chocolatier, and I saw a big notice that reminded me of Paris. Like, you know, we're on our annual leave for, you know, three weeks. And I said, how is that possible here? So when they came back, I was talking to them and I said, well, I don't understand. How could you leave, right? Or, why don't you replace someone or train someone to take care of it? And they said, well, we don't want to compromise on the quality. We like, you know, our customer service. We want to make sure one of the family members are here. And we notice that if you take the average of the three months, you know, before and after and that month where you had the vacation, it kind of averages up. Yeah, we might make a little more, but that little more is not worth our health.

[Joe Salce]

That's wild. And if you're making a quality product, like apparently they are, because you swear by them, you're going to buy more when they are open, when they are in town, and so they end up making a pack. Do you think it. It has to do. I'm not going to get the maximum right. But it. But it strikes me there's this maxim I learned a long time ago, that the work expands just to fill the allotted time. And so if we shrink that time box, we'll become more efficient in the time box. And also to your point, because of the fact that we're not so tired, we're much more able to click through the things in a more efficient manner because we feel rested and ready to go.

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

Yeah. I think the maxim is correct. And in fact, one of the great pieces of advice I had from a female mentor who was amazing. Her name was Laurent Azio. She said, you have to stop saying yes to everything. If you say yes to everything, no one's going to value your time. You have to start saying no to things in order for people to value your time. So anything you can delegate, you should, but only the things where you can personally make a difference. Those are the meetings you should be in and another story that I tell people is the time I was with IBM and I was on one of these next gen leadership meetings for young talent. I went to breakfast and there was a lot of young talent in one area. And I wound up sitting next to this, you know, this little old man who seemed lonely, you know, I asked him his name. He said, my name's Lou, what's yours? And I said, how long have you worked here? And he said about 10 years. And I said, oh, that's surprising. Most people, you know, I was thinking most people your age have worked here 30, 40 years. And I said, so what was the most difficult part of starting with IBM? He said, no, I was in back to back meetings all the time. And so I said yeah, I mean that's the nature of the job. He said, yeah, I told my assistant that she has to put like two hour slots just for me to think and to be able to decide what I wanted to work on, like empty slots and then I could start functioning correctly. And I'm looking at him saying I could never do that. My stuff is too important. You know, I have no idea what little thing job this guy does. And then I went to the meeting room because the CEO was going to do the first presentation and he turns around and of course it's him, the guy next to me and he says, you know, I was having a lovely chat which, and everyone thought I had staged this. Meanwhile I was trying to be nice to try to be nice to the old guy. Yes, exactly.

[Joe Salce]

I spent some time with Lou. I never met him, but he was at American Express when I first started my career at American Express. So it was, it was funny to hear Lou's name in the, the old guy at IBM.

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

Yeah, and he's a wonderful guy. I mean he, and you know, having heard him say that and I, I read this other book called 18 Minutes, which is a great book. Between the two of those I really started to be very maniacal around my calendar and make sure I had time one to meet people, make sure I understood what was being worked on, understood the culture, anything happening around it and just having time to think about specific things. I think that's what helped us move forward and create new products in a different way.

[Joe Salce]

Speaking of your calendar, I love just to go back for our stackers, planning your days off and your weeks off in January. There's also the financial benefit you mentioned that we'll get the cheaper prices on stuff, which is a finance nerd we all love here. Having the vacation buddy and covering for each other. Let's talk about just the weekends, because you spent some time talking about, you know, in the US A weekend really isn't days off for a lot of us. We spend our weekends planning for the week to come. How do we reclaim our weekend?

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

Yeah, so I had the same issue when I first came. You spend so much time around work, and then your weekends just becomes catch up, laundry, all of those things. I don't know if people have read Tony Robbins or others like him. They really talk about leverage. Right? Leveraging your time and making sure that you're spending it really around things you should be spending it on versus others. Anywhere you can use leverage, I would use it. So right now, in our digital world, it's really, really great. For example, if I go to the grocery store and I'm just wandering, I'm probably doing it at the worst time because I'm a working mom. I'm probably doing it, spending a lot more time than I have to. And I'm probably buying things that I shouldn't be because I haven't really planned for those meals. And then I wind up getting waste. So what I started doing is creating lists and I would just go and buy them online and have them picked up directly into my trunk and that was it. So I would do that on a Thursday or Friday evening and that job was done then. Any things that I started working on in the weekend, I would either split them between friends. So if, for example, I'm going to go back to my younger days when my kids were younger, but if we had kids going to the same game, we would actually alternate games.

[Joe Salce]

Oh, fabulous.

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

So one weekend would be off, one weekend would be on. And the kids actually built a lot more friends that way because they were always in these two groups. Parents became friends because we relied on each other. I had a great friend named Hillary. Our kids would often be in the same kind of activities and we would, we would share the workload. So it's just finding those moments and really being thoughtful around and asking. Right. Because a lot of times I find here in the US people don't want to ask for help. I'll give you an example. People had no problem asking me for help. Like, I had one person who I'd met at my son's school for one day. Within a week, she was asking me to take care of her son for a weekend. I was so shocked at the ask, I couldn't say no. And she wound up getting a free weekend. But I also knew that at some Point in time, if I needed the favor reversed, you know, I would have it. But there is this give and take around that. And I think if you're willing to take some responsibility, you'll find that others will do the same, and it will just give you a little bit more of a me time back that I think is important.

[Joe Salce]

You mentioned people asking. And earlier we talked about this idea of connection and how lonely we feel. We're in the most connected universe ever. My device sitting right next to me wherever I am. You and I can be in different cities having a conversation, we different countries having conversations, and yet we feel so isolated. You have a whole chapter where you talk about connection. And what struck me was not just the fact that you were able to, in your story earlier, solve a problem that was a huge problem through this miracle of connection, but also you were able to feel more connected and have these people that I can now share, you know, carpool with kid events or people help you with different things. There was one sentence that you wrote that I found very striking that I'd like you to, if you could explain for a minute. You said that connection is often closer and easier than we think it is. We think it's going to be very difficult. And yet you write it isn't nearly as difficult as we make it. How do we. How do we simplify this?

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

Well, I'll give you a simple example. And again, I'm going to use a us example because this is primarily the audience here. So when I moved into my house here, the previous tenants had told me one of my neighbors was really not kind. I don't take people's word for it. I always want to experience things myself. And I had seen my neighbor. His name's Andrew. He's a little gruff and maybe at first blush, might have a talking style that's slightly different. So I went and asked him about my mailbox because I was planning to move it closer to his side and we share a little patch. And I said, would he mind if I did? And he said, no, this is the line. So as long as it's on your line, it's fine. But that's how the first conversation started. And, you know, I started building from that. I will tell you, I now every time I go to Europe, I'm bringing back Cadbury chocolate. Cause I know his wife is English and she really misses that. So, you know, there's connection being built. I also noticed that my neighbors had never actually met each other. So I hosted like a breakfast. I mean, they've Met each other, but they don't really know each other because I said, oh, you should talk to Andrew about it. You know, he's a contractor. And they're like, really? Like, is he good? Is he, you know? So I had everyone come to the house and it was supposed to be a small get together for, you know, an hour. We wound up spending five hours together. It was wonderful. I brought Raphael's pastries. I did no work around it, just coffee, tea and some pastries. And five hours flew by. And we are so much more connected as a community together. And I find that beautiful. And I will tell you, when my basement flooded, I gave my first call to Andrew. He came, he fixed stuff, he told me who to call. He put everything together for me. He got me cheaper material so that I could do things I wanted to do there. He told me how to work with insurance because I'd never had an issue like this here. I will tell you above and beyond. And had I not just talked about that mailbox, that that conversation would never have happened. I think it's often taking the first step, which is the hardest. But once you get over that fear, because everyone wants to be connected, it's a natural human response to want to feel connected. So the more you do it and do things consistently, it will be easier. So, you know, another great example, you know, I talk to a lot of people around museums in Paris, right? And what I did with my kids at the Louvre. My kids are, I think, wired to try and find inexpensive ways to have fun here in the US One of the things, because my son goes through every contract, he noticed that one of the benefits at bank of America, no matter what card you have, you don't have to have a gold or platinum, just the basic card, debit card will actually get you into many museums for the first weekend of every month for free. So we go to the museums and we'll often go to the same museums and you'll see the same people and you'll start striking a conversation and suddenly you'll find these connections that you never knew you had. And friendships are built that way. They were always built that way. We just have to find moments that allow for the connection. And you can't do it from behind a screen.

[Joe Salce]

And I love how you make reference to while we're busy in cubicle land trying to work, work, work, work, work and not connect, you're actually going to be more interesting to customers, to other people on your team, to collaborators. If you actually take some time to get to know Them. You talked earlier about golden retrievers. If you're in sales, I mean, there's two salespeople, one that knows the product A to Z, and the other person knows the product, but also knows people and has spent time trying to connect with the people that people buy from people. And you even make a reference to a guy named Remy who is going into retirement, and he spent so much time connecting that he's super happy. We talk about that a lot here on the show about these connections really help you go from one job to another job to another spot. In fact, you told us just before we hit record, you're in transition right now. But I gotta believe you have a fair share of connections too, that may help you during transition.

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

That's right. And the connections can come from anywhere. You know, there's some principles that I've always grown up with and I teach my kids, which is it doesn't matter what walk of life someone's in. You treat the CEO the same way you treat the cleaning layer. You just have to be kind and considerate and do the basics and everything else will kind of work out themselves. You'd be surprised at how some of these connections occur. I would never have met Forbes had it not been for a connection. And it was, you know, a neighbor connection. Right. It was so unusual to have met through the leeway, but she's a landscape developer and she happened to be developing somewhere. And it is these type of connections, which, again, you can't assume, you can't be transactional. You cannot go into a conversation saying, this is the outcome I want. You have to go into the conversation really wanting to understand, wanting to see the other person, wanting to understand the other person. And you'd be surprised at how infrequently that happens. I find that many connections here tend to be transactional. You know, I'll do this. What do you do for me? And the more you can be the antithesis of that and the more French like you can be in that. I will tell you that the first contacts after this transition were from France because they kept a lookout. They were watching, they were hoping. Right. Like that I would. I would come back. So it's. This relationships will be long term. I find that often in American companies, it's unfortunate, but you spend so much time in a company and when. When and if you decide to leave it or taken out, it's. You don't want to lose those friendships that you've built eight to ten hours a day for years and years and years. But if your conversation is only about work and only superficial, you'll never be able to get to that other level. And I think that's what creates more of a sadness if you leave. So I had, you know, speaking of great salespeople, there was a great salesperson who retired, still is like, you know, gung ho for life. When I go into the city, I'll be going to visit him. It doesn't matter whether he's in the same company or not. You know, that relation was created as a parallel, not just in context.

[Joe Salce]

He's just a super connector.

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

He is.

[Joe Salce]

Yeah. That's so wild.

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

I think we all are.

[Joe Salce]

Well, and I love your point about treating the maintenance guy like the CEO. Heck, you thought the CEO was the maintenance guy. I think Lou Gerstner.

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

Not necessarily the way his shoes were too good for that, but yeah, the cute old guy.

[Joe Salce]

I love the fact that you have explored this in depth so much. I think this is so helpful. I think so many of us feel burnout, stressed out. And you know what? Now that we're getting close, we're coming into the fourth quarter and you've got all the year end things, plus the holidays. I feel like this is coming up the time that we feel more burnout than any other time of the year. Shevin's book on this topic is called the French Paradox, Embracing French ideals of leisure to transform American work, life, balance. And it's available yesterday everywhere, right?

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

Paris Paradox. And yes, it's available everywhere.

[Joe Salce]

Oh, that's funny. I said the French Paradox, didn't I?

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

Yeah, I think because we had talked about it and I had actually based the book based on business, but based on a great book that was written before called why French Women Never Get Fat or something like that. Initially, the title was supposed to be why the French Always have Time for Lunch. But based upon Forbes recommendation, we went with the Paris Paradox, which I love.

[Joe Salce]

Well, it has nice alliteration, right? The Paris Paradox. And you know what? I'll go back to Paris anytime. That's my favorite city.

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

I would never miss an opportunity to go to Paris. I recommend it wholeheartedly.

[Joe Salce]

Thank you so much for mentoring our Stackers today. I appreciate this so much.

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

Thank you so much, Joe. I really appreciate it, too.

[Doug]

Hey there, Stackers. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and today marks the anniversary of the first bicycle trip around the world by a woman. That's right, Annie Londonderry. That's got a nice ring to it. Annie Londonderry arrived back in Boston and collected a $10,000 prize, which was a nice start on a Roth IRA. You know, if they're been such a thing at the time, if you're thinking Annie had a cool last name. Well, I was thinking that actually. Well, Annie's birth name wasn't actually Londonderry. Her real name of Annie Cohen Kopchovsky. Yeah, that, that. That doesn't really roll, does it? No. Not good for marketing. And so she was happy to change it when New Hampshire's London Dairy Lithia Spring Water Company paid her, which also is a really long last name, paid her $100 to carry their advertisement on her bike and go by the name Annie Londonderry. Oh, I see what they did. They shortened it. Okay. Most impressive about Annie's journey around the world. She'd never ridden a bike until a few days before her journey. We'd like to pay you to swim across Lake Michigan. I don't know how to swim. You'll figure it out.

[OG]

It's gonna be amazing.

[Doug]

Here's today's question. To celebrate Annie's trip and learning how to ride a bike, let's ask about bikes. Giant is one of the top five biggest sellers of bicycles worldwide. Annie wouldn't have written one because they were founded in 1972, in which non giant Asian island country. I'll be back right after I ride my bike around the block. You thought I was going to say the world, didn't you? No.

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

It's Kelly Clarkson, here to talk all things Wayfair. The best place to buy furniture, decor, and anything else you can think of to create a home you absolutely love. I know when I shop with Wayfair, I find options for every style. Whether I'm feeling boho or farmhouse, modern, traditional French country, I can find exactly what I need for my home and more. No matter your space, style or budget. Shopwayfair.com to make your home way more you. Wayfair every style, every home. The Jack Welch Management Institute at Strayer University helps you go from I know the way to I've arrived with our top 10 ranked online MBA. Gain skills you can learn today and apply tomorrow. Get ready to go from make it happen to made it happen and keep striving. Visit strayer.edu Jack WelchMBA to learn more. Strayer University is certified to operate in.

[Joe Salce]

Virginia by Shev in as many campuses, including at 2121 15th Street north in Arlington, Virginia.

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans, send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom 60th and never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Learn [e-mail].

[Doug]

Hey there stackers. I'm bicycle lover and guy who loves it's not sounds so awkward when I say bicycle instead of bike. I'm bicycle lover and guy who loves the whirring noise of baseball cards in the spokes. Joe's mom's neighbor Doug Annie Londonderry rode around the world on a bicycle back in 1895, finishing the trek in just over 15 months. But we won't take 15 months to get you today's answer to this question. Giant is one of the top five bike manufacturers on earth. What bicycle crazed non giant Asian island country is home to Giant? It's Taiwan. And now two guys who are bicycling this podcast toward the second half. Here's Joe and OG oh gee, you've.

[Joe Salce]

Been a madman on the bicycle lately.

[OG]

It ebbs and flows. I find that from a cardio standpoint it is so easy to bang out an hour, hour and a half on a bike versus a treadmill or going for a walk or something like that.

[Doug]

It's like so, so let me get this right.

[Joe Salce]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Putting on the special shoes that have the clips and your awkwardly tight outfit and the helmet and getting the water bottle ready, all of that. And the goo packets and the little pouches in your back, all of that's easier than just walking out the door and walking at a 14 minute pace? Oh yeah, that's what I do.

[OG]

It's way. I mean, I'm not a marathon walker like you, bruh. I just like to pedal.

[Doug]

It's just so much easier jam out to do it on a bicycle.

[Joe Salce]

I get done training for this last thing in January, my last marathon and then I'm joining you on the bike, og. Cause it's just so much better on the joints in the back and much, much much smoother. And to your point, nothing more fun by the way than riding around the neighborhoods. You know, I've got a couple hills, big hills on my usual route when I cycle that are just a pain in the ass and I get myself pretty worked up for those. Get the heart beat pounding. It's good. Good time. What kind of bike you have? You have a Giant? Do you have a Giant?

[OG]

I have a Trek.

[Joe Salce]

A Trek? Yeah. Mine's a Trek as well. Specialized by the way is the number one seller of bicycles worldwide.

[Doug]

You know, it's a whole lot cheaper than that. A pair of shoes.

[Joe Salce]

I thought you're gonna say a huffy. You're huffy.

[Doug]

No, no. I get a pair of good shoes for 150 bucks.

[Joe Salce]

Is huffy still a thing by the way?

[Doug]

Oh yeah, it's still a thing. All the high school kids are totally huffing.

[Joe Salce]

And puffing.

[Doug]

Yeah, I mean, the whippets. That's what I'm talking about.

[Joe Salce]

Whip it good. Bono. Bonobo. All right, time for our headline.

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

Hello darlings.

[OG]

And now it's time for your favorite.

[Joe Salce]

Part of the show.

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

Our stacking Benjamin's headlines.

[Joe Salce]

Our headline today comes to us from financial planning.com the website for the financial planning. What is it? OG the financial planning Association. Financial Planning Council. Financial Planners.

[Doug]

Anonymous Financial association of Planners. Also known as the Fappers.

[Joe Salce]

The Fappers.

[OG]

Oh boy.

[Joe Salce]

I think it's for paws for pas. Okay, what happens when your advisor changes companies? This was written by Dan Shaw early this month.

[OG]

1.6 must be changing companies.

[Joe Salce]

1.6 billion dollar UBS team jumps to LPL quote forced out by comp changes. Dan writes UBS advisors keep heading to the exits following the firm's recent compensation changes with a prominent team departing for LPL Financial in California. Golden State Wealth Management, a group with roughly $1.6 billion in assets under management and 7.1 million in annual revenue production in Merced, California has moved with various staff members to lpl. Tells who the team is led by. They came in at the number 20 spot this year in forms. List of the best wealth management teams in California. Oh gee. You get a letter from your advisor, you get a call from your advisor. First of all, how do you know when your advisor is changing companies or do you know? Are there times when you don't know and you just go in and all of a sudden there's a different sign on the door?

[OG]

Well, a lot of this depends on where you are and where you're going. So at a little behind the scenes baseball, depending on what type of firm that an advisor's affiliated with. And basically there's a couple of different options here. There's a brokerage house. So brokerage company would be your Merrill Lynch's, Morgan Stanley's, ubs.

[Joe Salce]

This will be the ubs.

[OG]

Yeah, I think that's basically all of them at this point. Edward Jones. So a straight brokerage company is going to be different than a hybrid, which is your Ameriprises. LPLs used to be Commonwealth Cambridges. That's kind of more of a hybrid structure where it's a brokerage and a investment advisory firm versus a complete investment advisory firm that's a registered investment firm that might be like Fisher or Creative Planning or like our firm is straight RA firm. And you know, we have advisors. So generally speaking, there's rules around what information advisor teams can bring with them when they leave. So they, you know, in this example, they say, hey, we're going from UBS to lpl. The LPL guy has, gal has recruited them and said, hey, bring your clients over here. We've got all this cool stuff that you guys don't have at ubs. We're going to pay you a bunch of more money. We're going to save your clients a bunch of costs. It's a win, win, win, win, win for everybody. You know, you got to move all this money. We'll help you do the paperwork, all that sort of stuff. That's all behind the scenes. And then when they leave, there's some stuff that they can bring with them. They can bring contact information. They can bring your name, your address, your phone number, generally speaking, your email. Every company's a little different. But they can't take your account number, they can't take your statements, they can't take, you know, your financial planning documents. That's all owned by UBS in this case. And so they can take contact information. We call it phone book information. Right. Name, address, phone, email. And so, yeah, usually you'll get an email. The way you know that your advisor left is you get two phone calls. You get one from the branch manager at UBS going, hey, you know, Jack left and, but UBS is really awesome and Jack sucks and, and you should probably stay here. And then you get another phone call from Jack and goes, hey, it's Jack. UBS sucks. We're going to lpl. You should come with me. You know, and those are, those are the two phone calls. And one is, do you stick with UBS and have a new broker, or do you go with your old broker and go to lpl?

[Joe Salce]

But the advisor, what I'm hearing, though, the advisor can't tell you ahead of time.

[OG]

Yeah, there's no, there's not supposed to be. Maybe you can read between the lines in terms of teeing it up. You know, if you're, if your advisor's first six months going, hey, you know, just so you know, we're always shopping, you know, our back office, just like we help you with your investments. This is what I would say if I was going to do it, I would have meetings with all of our clients and I would say, you know, just like we do for you in terms of trying to find the best investment solutions and custodians and products and services and stuff like that. We also have that, you know, we have back office support and we have technology and we have things that we pay for. We're always shopping that out. And there may come a time, you know, in the future where we might be shopping it a little bit more aggressively.

[Joe Salce]

Wink, wink.

[Doug]

In the future. In September?

[OG]

Yes, as of September 18th.

[Joe Salce]

Hypothetically.

[OG]

Hypothetically for sure.

[Joe Salce]

Maybe.

[OG]

But they got to be careful in what they can take. And there's, you know, there's lawsuits that happen around, around that all the time. For a period of time there was like this, it was called the broker protocol where it was, if you, everybody participated in it, ubs, Merrill, Morgan, like everybody said, hey, we're all going to play nice with one another. You don't sue us for taking your clients and we won't sue you for taking, you know, you taking ours. Everybody played nice. It lasted 10 years. So there's still some that are participating, but a lot are like, nah, screw you, we're coming after you. But anyways, more to the point about how this affects you as a consumer. I don't think it really does. Products are very commoditized at this point. Yes, there's some proprietary stuff. UBS probably has some sort of product or service that is unique to them. No different than LPL does or no different than Merrill lynch does or something like that. But generally speaking, if you're investing in ETFs and mutual funds and some stocks and bonds and money market and that sort of thing, it's pretty much the same whether you have UBS on your statement or Schwab or Fidelity or lpl. And really what you're thinking about here is the relationship that you have with your advisor team and whether or not you want that to continue, there is generally a financial incentive for the advisor to leave. You know, These guys make $7 million a year of revenue. They got a big check to go to LPL to bring that revenue over. Because LPL goes, hey, look, you know, we're going to make money on these people. We can share some of that back with the people who are bringing it in. In this case, the team that's coming over.

[Joe Salce]

So they got like a one time signing bonus.

[OG]

Yeah, probably a significant amount. And with some backend requirements of hey, here's Some money now, here's some money in a year and money in type of deal based on what happens. So they're motivated to get you to move your accounts over. But I think more importantly, as you look at it from a consumer standpoint, if you have a good relationship with your advisor or your advisor team and they say, hey, we're going to move from Schwab to Fidelity because we think it's a better solution for our clients, you should say, okay, you know, or we're moving from UBS to LPL because we think it's a better solution. Yeah. They get. Do they get something out of it? Absolutely, they do. But I think, you know, it's a fair question to ask. What's in it for me as a consumer? But hopefully it's something very simple like, well, we can do this at a lower cost for you.

[Joe Salce]

They said even in this piece, we were, quote, forced out because of compensation changes.

[OG]

Okay, well, what that means is we didn't like the changes.

[Joe Salce]

That's right. Yeah.

[OG]

We were going to make less money and the hell with that.

[Doug]

Hey, og, if my advisor moves, can that ever create taxable events for me as the client?

[OG]

Yeah, it's a really good question, I think. One that you definitely want to ask your advisor team and this. And honestly, you should ask this anytime there's transactions that are happening, right. Obviously, IRA to ira. If you're doing a rollover, you got an IRA at UBS and you're going to an IRA at lpl. You know, tomato, tomato, that's going to be the same. Same thing with your Roths, with your brokerage accounts. As long as you don't sell anything, there's not a tax event. Right. If you have 100 shares of Apple at UBS and you say, I want to transfer that over to LPL, I have 100 shares of Apple at LPL. There's. There's no taxable event. The situation where you may run into an issue is if there's a proprietary product, right. If it's like, UBS has the UBS fund. That's what I was thinking of LPL's like, well, we don't have a UBS fund. Obviously. We have LPL funds, you know, and you. Yeah, yeah, because ours are better. You gotta sell it to move that over. But then there's also no reason. Could you keep both? I mean, do you have to have, like. If you have a small amount, is it worth the sacrifice of the tax bill to have it consolidated? Or is it better to say, well, I'm going to keep that 50 grand at UBS because I don't want to pay the taxes on that. I think it has to be case by case. And that's a really good question that you should ask. We have a pretty blanket policy in our firm of no surprises. That would be a terrible surprise. You know, like, hey, I moved over.

[Joe Salce]

With you at LPL.

[OG]

And then like April, you go, what's this 20 grand I owe?

[Joe Salce]

Yeah.

[OG]

By the way, you know, in taxes.

[Doug]

It'S like, remember you were totally cool with it, Right? Remember when I said we were moving? It was all good.

[OG]

Yeah. So that's a really fair question of, you know, is this a taxable event? Is this going to cost me any money? Honestly, I think if you're moving, you got to be moving for a reason. Right. Because it's a pain in the ass. Right. It sucks to have to move your accounts from one place to another. There's paperwork, there's time delay, new platform that you got to get used to and stuff. So if you're doing it, it's got to be worth it. So hopefully as a consumer, you get a little something out of the deal too.

[Doug]

I mean, I heard all of your answer and thanks for that. But what I really heard, here's how I distilled it down, was check out the big brain on Doug. That's what I when you said good question. That's kind of what you were trying to say, right?

[Joe Salce]

Yeah. That's 100%.

[OG]

It's got to be about him, doesn't it?

[Joe Salce]

It's just like og it's like petting your puppy. You just pet the puppy. Good boy.

[OG]

Me, me, me, me, me. Always about me.

[Joe Salce]

Love me more. As I was thinking about this initially when I saw this piece, I was thinking, if we were trying to talk to stackers about this, how would we like what's the rubric we're thinking from? And I think OG just a hundred percent of what you said, rubric piece number one is not about the change. It's is this relationship important to me? Is this person a value member of my team? Because for me, if the advisor moves from UBS to LPL and it is a valuable relationship, it should be a no brainer. It should have nothing to do with UPS or lpl. They're way in the background. Who cares? If it makes my advisor's job easier, then of course I'm going if they're a valuable member of my team. But I think, oh gee, if you hesitate there, you're like, ah, do I move or do I do I talk to the district manager, Bob, who called me and said that my advisor's a loser. I think your relationship already wasn't in the right place.

[OG]

If you're contemplating that sometimes that's the impetus, Right. To search for a different team.

[Joe Salce]

Yeah.

[OG]

Which is okay.

[Joe Salce]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you gotta have. Gotta have a great board of advisors around you. So if you hesitate for a second, maybe one of two things. Either A, schedule A, meeting with that advisor and talk about what you need from them as the CEO of your financial, quote, company for your financial life to get them where you actually need them, or B, time to time to find that person who is a good member of the board.

[Doug]

Speaking of petting your puppy, that's a good litmus test, maybe for picking your advisor. And I did not create this. Somebody smarter did. But it's the two beers and a puppy test. Have you heard about this?

[Joe Salce]

No.

[Doug]

You think I'm setting up a joke? I'm not. But they. They say after a couple of meetings, if you feel like this is a person I want to have a couple of beers with or I would trust to take care of my dog over the weekend, then that's probably somebody that you're. You match up well with.

[Joe Salce]

That's good.

[Doug]

They should be part of your team.

[Joe Salce]

That is a great. What happened there? How did he do that, OG how does he go from pet the puppy, it's all about me to a greater. I. I have no idea. It's amazing. We will link to this piece on our show notes page@stacking benjamin.com because advisors are moving all the time and it's a little interesting. Thanks, OG for the peek underneath the hood to see what's going on and the advisory side of that that we often don't get to see.

[Doug]

Hey, Joe, are we ready to go to the back porch?

[Joe Salce]

Let's do it. This is a community part of the show where we dive into what's going on. Stacker land.

[Doug]

Yeah. We've had so much activity out on the basement. Out down. Down in the basement. The basement of Facebook. In the nether regions of the Facebook offices where us Stackers hang out. Nether regions.

[Joe Salce]

Oh, boy.

[Doug]

That's my bathing suit area. But this guy named Joe made this great post a little while ago, and this is the kind of stuff that we all want to know. This is the valuable financial, personal finance type info that everybody's craving. And it was really helpful. I was glad that this guy named Joe posted it where he said, here's how much? Well, he didn't say it, but he reposted this thing that said here's how much you should have for retirement by.

[Joe Salce]

Age to this maybe.

[Doug]

So like just get right to the point. It's so good.

[Joe Salce]

I was sitting at the airport in Portland getting ready to come home and of course I'm just scrolling Facebook and I immediately, Doug, when I saw this.

[Doug]

Piece, I lost your shazzle, didn't you?

[Joe Salce]

I hit copy, went over to the basement and said this is garbage. And we've all seen these pieces before and they drive me crazy because especially if you're new here, like it drives you nuts. It's by. I'm not going to say who the who the piece was by. I'm not going to give them any more publicity. It says here's how much you should have for retirement by age, by age 30x amount by age 40, by age 50, by 60, by age 65. This is. How do you stack up? And I mean if you're behind on their completely arbitrary graph.

[Doug]

I don't know. It worked out well for me. I kind of like it. But if you're sweet, I'm in great shape.

[Joe Salce]

Let's say that you're a big spender. You might high five yourself and you're like, hey, I'm, I'm doing great. And you're not. Like it doesn't take into account anything, your goals, the amount that you can save in the future. Maybe you just got raises. You look at how quickly as an example physician, right? Get this long, long, long, long delayed spot on their income stream which if you use those appropriately, if, if you're somebody who early on gets a nice head start over a physician who's putting all their dollars into the machine to get this degree or anybody who gets an eight year degree, frankly, it takes a long time for them to catch up with you.

[Doug]

Settle down. You're getting all serious about this. I was just making fun of this Joe loser who posted this thing and lost his grapes over. And you're like, we get it. We all get why it sucks. Can we move on?

[Joe Salce]

Who is that? Joe. But I like stacker Andy, by the way. Who says you need a jillion dollars? One jillion dollars.

[Doug]

One jillion dollars.

[Joe Salce]

By the way, it was so nice to actually meet some stackers. I met Andy.

[Doug]

You met Andy?

[Joe Salce]

I met Andy. What a great guy.

[Doug]

I heard and told you some good stories about somebody.

[Joe Salce]

You know about how that one guy who he knew from earlier in his life was such a loser.

[Doug]

Yeah. Who he may common Theme they have.

[Joe Salce]

May have known before. Yeah, Andy's a great guy.

[Doug]

Here's another great post we had from Kenneth Westervelt. Sounds like he's, like, from an old English, moneyed family. Kenneth Westervelt.

[Joe Salce]

And by the way, Kenneth. Whatever I say, and I love Kenneth, and Kenneth and I have hung out a little bit online before, but every time I see Kenneth's name, I think winter is coming.

[Doug]

Oh, yeah, it's that, too. That's right. Immediately he's got this big robe made out of, like, wolf pelts.

[Joe Salce]

He's Kenneth Westervelt from the Westervelts.

[Doug]

Hair blowing in the wind who defend the wall. Yeah. There was another great post by Kenneth. Kenneth posted a piece from Fast Company, which was a great way to blend fan fiction with personal finance. I thought this was incredibly creative and fan fiction so fun. Like, what would have happened to these characters after the movie? Or the connection to three other movies that you think are totally unrelated. All of that kind of stuff is so, I think, a little bit weird that people, like, think that much about it, but be super creative. Here's the only piece of it that I didn't like was what she thought would happen to Brian, which Brian was the character in Breakfast Club who was portrayed by Anthony Michael Hall. He was kind of the nerd. I think he was supposed to be the geek or the nerd in the movie that, you know, that historically had been picked on or bullied. And she really felt like he was going to completely screw up his personal finance journey and. And go all in on the wrong things or sell at the wrong time. And that just didn't seem to me like a guy who was so obsessed with doing the right thing that he would stress out about, you know, he tried to make a lamp out of an elephant, and you pull the trunk and the light goes on. Like, he was so obsessed with it that that sent him over the edge in the movie.

[Joe Salce]

But you could see. You could see that character. And apologies, people haven't seen the Breakfast Club, but I think, Doug, you nailed it. He's the. He's the young nerd just sucking up to. Everybody wants to be all their friends, but he is the guy that then would fall for the next hot thing because he wants to be loved so much.

[Doug]

Maybe. No maybe. But otherwise, it was a great piece. The author did a great job on.

[Joe Salce]

Well, and what's funny about the author is I saw that it was Fast Company and I saw the. Which is the publication, and then I saw the fan fiction Breakfast Club.

[Doug]

And.

[Joe Salce]

And just when I saw that headline Doug, I went, this has got to be my co author, a stacked Emily Guy Birkin. And I clicked on it, hoping. And I scroll down underneath the picture and it was Emily Guy Birken.

[Doug]

So, like, if I ever see a piece that's somehow merging personal finance and Disney, I'll automatically assume you wrote it.

[Joe Salce]

When did Joe start writing for Forbes? Like. Or whatever. Yeah.

[Doug]

Wow. They were hurting for content that much.

[Joe Salce]

I was so proud of myself. I'm like, with Emily's love of movies and I knew that she writes sometimes for Fast Company, so that was fun. But great one on Kenneth. We got any. Anything else?

[Doug]

Yeah, the last one I want to bring up was Shane Rockers. Amazing name. These sound like. I think our listeners just make up cool names just to sound cool online.

[Joe Salce]

It's like Monday was Joan Jett's birthday and she's got nothing on Shane, right?

[Doug]

No, no Shane. I'm kind of disappointed that there isn't some major rock and roll artist named Shane Rockers. But anyway, Shane pointed out how weird it is every time they hear OG Do a sponsored ad instead of Joe.

[Joe Salce]

And it is funny because that only happens from time to time. Normally what happens is, is Steve tells me, hey, Joe, you got to make sure that the pieces are done. And so then I'll record those and send them off to Cumulus, which is our network that we're on. And in this case, I was in Portland, so OG did it. But what always lights my fire is whenever OG does it, Doug sends me a note going, you know, I'm available.

[Doug]

Yeah, I want to do.

[Joe Salce]

You know, I could do those if.

[Doug]

You'Re going to let.

[Joe Salce]

Oh, Doug yet.

[Doug]

Yeah. God, how desperate are you if you're letting. Oh gee. Do it?

[Joe Salce]

So he's wearing me down, peeps. Don't be surprised if you hear Mint Mobile presented by neighbor.

[Doug]

I think you're terrified of how I would ad lib and we would get sued by the advertiser.

[Joe Salce]

I love Mint Mobile, by the way. That's a great one. I know the fire community loves Mint Mobile and it's so inexpensive.

[Doug]

So, yeah, 15 bucks a month.

[Joe Salce]

When they came to us asking if they could sponsor the show, I'm like, heck, yeah.

[Doug]

We're all people listening now are like, oh, this is like the Ovaltine thing in Christmas Story. This whole back porch was a lead up to another.

[Joe Salce]

That's right. Mobile was like, could you just work this into a. You know, I love cast. I love sleeping Doug. That's why I Love Casper Mattresses. Remember when we had who was it? It wasn't Michael Crichton. Somebody had written a new like thing. It was a little out of their genre, but it included a murder and the whole ad read was about a murder. And I was like, oh, I love this author. Yeah, this will be. This would be super fun. One night over beers we, we were playing golf online, Doug. But we, we start talking about the bad segue. Oh, you know, this show is just murder today. Speaking of.

[Doug]

As one does have.

[Joe Salce]

Have you read the new book on murder by so and so so so bad.

[Doug]

This is the longest back porch ever. I've got two beers already.

[Joe Salce]

I think that's it. Thanks everybody for hanging out with us not just today, but also in the Facebook group if you want to join some of the fun that we have over there. The URL to get there is fairly long. So here's a shortcut that we created just for you. Stackinbenjamins.com Basement and that will take you to our Facebook group. You just apply to get in and Gertrude, our community manager will let you in. That's just to make sure.

[Doug]

Why to get in? Is there a down payment?

[Joe Salce]

We just get so many country club. We get so many, so many people that try and still to this day we still people that are there now. Once every four or five months, somebody all of a sudden wants to talk about bitcoin non stop and you just link to them.

[Doug]

Yeah. And the other thing that happens a bunch, I've had this from both Economi and Paula Pants where they hijack the account and then you get a friend request.

[Joe Salce]

Well, in those cases, they're just spoofing the account. The regular account is here. They set up another one that is one letter different. Like speaking of that, one of the 20 people that were spoofing Paula called themselves Paula Pants instead of Paula Pants.

[Doug]

What a mess. Because saying Paula's pants, that's the better place.

[Joe Salce]

We talked to her about this. That's a business she could have gone into. Yep, just lended her name. All right. Anyway, Doug, get us out of here, man. What are the three things that should be on our to do list today?

[Doug]

Here's what stacked up on our to do list today. First, take some advice from Shemin. Want to enjoy work more, spend more time away so that you're rested, motivated when you're at work and charged up to meet your next challenge. Second, did your advisor change Companies don't adjust your journey because theirs is changing, but rather whether they're actually helping you on your journey. But the big lesson, get out on your bike and ride with Joe's mom. Sure, she might make fun of your banana seat, but your street cred will skyrocket because you'll be riding with a woman wearing leather chaps. Thanks to Shemin Nur Muhammad for joining us. Today you'll find the Paris paradox embracing French ideals of leisure to transform American work, life, balance wherever you buy books. We'll also include links in our show [e-mail] this show is the property of SB Podcast, LLC, Copyright 2025, and is created by Josal Sehive. Joe gets help from a few of our neighborhood friends. You'll find out about our awesome [e-mail] along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello. Oh, yeah. And before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don't take advantage of advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and we'll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin show.

[Joe Salce]

Sam. Doug, what are you watching?

[Doug]

A bunch of stuff. A. I'm watching the tigers. Slide, slide, slide. That's just driving me crazy, what they're doing to give up what was once like an 11 game lead in the. In the division. But what we're watching creatively is task on hbo.

[Joe Salce]

Task.

[Doug]

Yes. And it's somehow I have not figured out how yet, but it is sort of part of the universe and. Or related to mayor of Easttown. Mayor of Easttown. Great show from a couple of years ago starring Kate Winslet, where she is a police officer in kind of a rust belt city. Actually, no, that's not true. Not rust belt, but like a factory town that's fallen on hard times in Pennsylvania. So would highly recommend Mare of Easttown. M a r e Not mayor, but mayor.

[Joe Salce]

She won a bunch of awards for that.

[Doug]

Yeah. And deservedly so. She was great. So somehow task. And honestly, we're like three episodes in because they only get released, stupidly, once a week. I hate that. Like, it's a regular show on broadcast television. What's the point of having a streaming service if you're going to make me wait and I can't binge? But the lead in task is Mark Ruffalo and he's an FBI agent who's a great character super well written character because he's got. You get the backstory. He's got a lot of internal conflict going on, a lot going on in his life outside of the investigation. So a very well written character. And I gotta say, I'm not always a huge fan of Ruffalo, but this character works for him really well. So great casting. I'll say.

[Joe Salce]

I think he's got wide range, though. He plays so many different people.

[Doug]

I would say he used to. Lately I've seen him be more one dimensional. I don't know.

[Joe Salce]

Ever since the Hulk.

[Doug]

Yeah, probably since the superhero days. I think he's sort of gotten into as he's aged. Maybe that's it. I don't know. But this is really good. It's either really good casting or they wrote for him, but nonetheless, it's really good. And I'm drawing a blank on the lead antagonist. I don't know him as an actor. He's been in some stuff, but he's not a major name. But you love this guy. Like you. You actually start to root for, so far, three episodes in. You root for the antagonist in this one because he's a great, likable bad guy.

[Joe Salce]

That's what I liked about that was, for me, the big hook of Tyron is when the man who was chasing her became an empathetic character. Where I got his motivation and where he was, it was. It became an even better series than I thought it was at the beginning.

[Doug]

This is one of the. I mean, again, early returns, sure hard to judge this early, but three episodes in, I was actually just. I was drawn in, in the first probably half hour, which is. It's been a while, honestly, for me to have discovered a. A limited series where I got pulled in that quickly.

[Joe Salce]

That sounds like one I'd really like. We are finishing, you know, how much Cheryl and I really like Sabrina the Teenage Witch, the. The newer version, like really campy, Halloweeny stuff. So of course, when they came out with season two of Wednesday, we had to watch that. And I gotta say, and I think everybody that watches this feels the same way. Not a great series. Campy, fun. Fred Armisen is so, so funny in his limited role. And just seeing Catherine Zeta Jones just. Just these people that, you know, play these, these parts. Steve Buscemi is a new character this year and he's amazing, but it's just Tim Burton at his best. It's weird, it's uneven. It is a solid six and a half on a scale of one to ten. But that's what I'm looking for from Wednesday. I'm not looking for high art. I'm just really goofy. Good times.

[Doug]

Disappointing. Because there's. To hear you say that. Because. Well. And okay, I'll qualify this by saying there are times where you just want some popcorn and you don't want to. But there's so much amazing material out there across all of the streaming platforms.

[Joe Salce]

Sure.

[Doug]

I don't feel like we should be settling for six and a half.

[Joe Salce]

No. But I'm in the mood for that. It's really fun. Wednesday is really fun. If you're looking for fun. It's. It's. It's stupid and it's fun.

[Doug]

You could go for a just a guaranteed 10 out of 10 with like a love is blind UK.

[Joe Salce]

Well, here is.

[Shemin Nur Muhammad]

Are you not?

[Doug]

That's as good as streaming gets.

[Joe Salce]

That sounds like a solid four and a half on a scale of one to ten. Last one I have is my friends Nathan and Catherine, who took us to an amazing dinner at the end of our time in Portland. So big thanks to them. Nathan told me there's a series on Netflix called the Law According to Lydia Poet. Oh, that got a hundred percent. It is 100% rotten tomato score. And he said it may be the best thing he's ever watched. Wow. I know.

[Doug]

Never heard of it.

[Joe Salce]

The Law According to Lydia Poet. So I can't wait to dig into that next.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah, I'm intrigued.