Podcast Title: The Stacks
Host: Traci Thomas
Episode: Ep. 348 – I Will Always Be a Grief Enthusiast with Nora McInerny
Release Date: December 4, 2024

Introduction

In Episode 348 of The Stacks, host Traci Thomas welcomes best-selling author and podcast host Nora McInerney. Known for her award-winning podcast Terrible Things for Asking and her poignant books such as It's Okay to Laugh, Crying Is Cool Too, Nora delves deep into her experiences with grief, resilience, and the complexities of moving forward after loss.

Nora McInerney: An Introduction to Grief and Resilience

Nora begins by sharing the origins of her career, highlighting the viral obituary she co-wrote for her late husband, Aaron Permort, in 2014. This moment not only propelled her into the literary world but also set the foundation for her work centered around grief and healing.

Notable Quote:
Nora McInerney at [06:03]:
"The night he entered hospice, he really wanted to watch Game of Thrones... and it went viral. Like 2014 viral, Tracy."

The Reluctant Grief Advocate

Traci probes Nora about her identity as a grief person. Nora articulates her stance, emphasizing that while grief is an integral part of her life and work, she does not define herself solely by it. Instead, she views herself as a multifaceted individual whose experiences with grief inform but do not confine her.

Notable Quote:
Nora McInerney at [08:21]:
"I never tried to be a grief person. Everything I do always has a sprinkle of sadness to it. I can't help it."

Podcasting Challenges and Burnout

The conversation shifts to the pressures of maintaining a highly produced podcast in an increasingly commercialized podcasting landscape. Nora discusses the financial and creative stresses that led her to put Terrible Things for Asking on hiatus, highlighting the unsustainable nature of chasing high-budget deals in a saturated market.

Notable Quote:
Nora McInerney at [13:15]:
"We ended up making a show that was, you know, an HBO level show... It's highly produced."
"When you start to get reviews or emails like, 'This just isn't sad anymore, what happened?', it's capitalism at play."
[13:15]

Navigating Expectations and Setting Boundaries

Traci and Nora explore the societal expectations placed on individuals who are vocal about grief and personal struggles. Nora shares her experiences with trauma dumping from listeners and the emotional toll it takes, reinforcing the importance of setting healthy boundaries to preserve her well-being.

Notable Quote:
Nora McInerney at [15:05]:
"I have more in common with that person. Our struggles are intertwined in a way that they are not."

Book Recommendations: Listener's Inquiry

In a segment titled "Ask the Stacks," Traci reads a listener's question seeking book recommendations within the "memoir plus" genre—a blend of memoir with historical or informational context. Traci suggests three compelling titles:

1. "His Name Was George Floyd" by Robert Samuels and Toluse Olnuripa
   A profound biography that intertwines George Floyd’s personal history with broader societal contexts.

2. "How to Tell When We Will Die" by Johanna Hedva
   An essay collection exploring themes of disability, pain, and resilience with wit and depth.

3. "My Own Country" by Abraham Verghese
   A memoir capturing the challenges of being an infectious disease specialist during the AIDS crisis in rural Tennessee.

Notable Quote:
Traci Thomas at [29:23]:
"His use of language is so beautiful. I have bought that book so many times because I give it to people."

Nora's Book Recommendations and Favorites

Nora enthusiastically shares her favorite reads, emphasizing works that resonate with her experiences and literary tastes:

• "Bright Sided" by Barbara Ehrenreich
  Nora praises Ehrenreich’s exploration of toxic positivity and its impact on American culture.

• "I Cheerfully Refuse" by Leif Anger
  A near-future odyssey that Nora describes as "timeless and timely," lauding its beautiful language and compelling narrative.

• "The Heart is a Lonely Hunter" by Carson McCullers
  An enduring favorite from her youth, reflecting on existential themes.

Conversely, Nora expresses strong disdain for Tim Ferriss's The 4-Hour Workweek, criticizing its promotion of unrealistic work-life philosophies and perceived manipulation of readers.

Notable Quote:
Nora McInerney at [36:58]:
"I have a special hatred for Tim Ferriss and the four-hour work week... I've never read a more thoughtless book."
[36:58]

Embarrassing Reads and Unfinished Books

Nora candidly discusses books she feels embarrassed about having engaged with, notably listening to the self-help audiobook The Secret. She reflects on her past vulnerabilities and the societal pressures to maintain a facade of positivity.

Notable Quote:
Nora McInerney at [51:13]:
"I am embarrassed that I did listen to the Secret on audiobook... I brought this on myself."

Favorite Bookstores and Reading Habits

Highlighting her love for local bookstores, Nora mentions her favorites in different cities, such as Subtext in St. Paul and Majors & Quinn in Minneapolis. She appreciates the cozy atmospheres and the community these spaces foster.

Notable Quote:
Nora McInerney at [47:49]:
"My favorite bookstore is whatever bookstore I'm in... nothing fits in your suitcase more than several books."

Grief in Literature and Personal Reflection

The discussion returns to the theme of grief, with Nora recommending impactful books that address loss and change, including Pema Chödrön’s When Things Fall Apart and Jason Roeder’s Grief Strike. She emphasizes the importance of relatable and honest portrayals of grief in literature.

Notable Quote:
Nora McInerney at [58:07]:
"When Things Fall Apart by Pema Chödrön... she is just like a regular lady who became a Buddhist monk."
[58:07]

Concluding Thoughts and Future Directions

As the episode wraps up, Traci and Nora reflect on the evolving nature of their work and personal lives. They touch upon upcoming book club picks and the continued importance of community and support in navigating grief and personal growth.

Notable Quote:
Nora McInerney at [60:30]:
"It's so good... it's just beautiful."

Key Takeaways

• Grief as a Multifaceted Journey: Nora McInerney illustrates that grief is an intrinsic part of her life and work but does not solely define her identity.

• Creative Burnout in Podcasting: The pressures of maintaining a high-quality podcast in a commercialized space can lead to burnout, necessitating pauses and re-evaluations.

• Importance of Boundaries: Setting clear boundaries is crucial for mental health, especially for public figures dealing with heavy emotional content.

• Literary Recommendations: Both hosts offer insightful book recommendations that align with themes of grief, resilience, and personal growth, providing listeners with valuable resources for their own journeys.

• Authentic Storytelling: Emphasizing the power of genuine and relatable narratives in literature, Nora advocates for stories that mirror real-life struggles and triumphs.

Upcoming Book Club

December Book Club Pick: Tacky Love Letters to the Worst Culture We Have to Offer by Rax King
Discussion Date: Wednesday, December 25th
Guest: Nora McInerney

Listeners are encouraged to join the book club discussion to explore the nuanced themes presented in Rax King's latest work.

Connect with The Stacks

• Website: www.thestackspodcast.com
• Patreon: patreon.com/thestacks – Join the Stacks Pack for exclusive content and community.
• Newsletter: Tracy Thomas on Substack
• Social Media: Follow @thestacksPodcast on Instagram, Threads, and TikTok.

Acknowledgments

A heartfelt thank you to Nora McInerney for her candid and enriching conversation, Pete Forrester for making the episode possible, and all the supporters of The Stacks podcast. Special recognition goes to Christian Duenas (editor), Megan Caballero (production assistance), Robin McRite (graphic design), and Tagirijis (theme music).

Stay tuned for more insightful discussions and book explorations on The Stacks. Until next time, keep reading and connecting with your literary community.