Podcast Summary: The Stacks Episode 349 – Testing Humanity with Mosab Abu Toha
Introduction
The Stacks, hosted by Traci Thomas, is a vibrant podcast dedicated to exploring books and the profound impact they have on our lives, culture, race, politics, and more. In Episode 349, released on December 11, 2024, Traci welcomes Mosab Abu Toha, an internationally acclaimed poet and the founder of the Edward Said Library—the first English language library in Gaza. Mosab's latest poetry collection, Forest of Noise, serves as the focal point of their engaging and heartfelt discussion.
Meet Mosab Abu Toha
Traci Thomas opens the episode by introducing Mosab Abu Toha, highlighting his significant contributions to literature and his courageous efforts in preserving Palestinian culture through poetry and the establishment of the Edward Said Library. Mosab's work not only reflects his personal experiences but also serves as a poignant chronicle of the ongoing struggles faced by Palestinians in Gaza.
Quotes:
- Traci Thomas (00:00): "The Stacks is your one stop shop to talk books and reading."
- Mosab Abu Toha (04:57): "I'm happy to be with you."
Exploring Forest of Noise
Traci delves into the contents of Mosab’s poetry collection, Forest of Noise. She describes it as a lyrical and deeply personal exploration of life in Gaza, capturing the relentless turmoil and the resilience of its people.
Key Discussions:
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Content Overview: Mosab explains that his poems span the period before and after the onset of what he describes as a genocide in Gaza. They cover themes of loss, survival, and the haunting persistence of violence.
Quote:
- Mosab Abu Toha (05:09): "These poems are about things that happened, but the thing is that they keep happening."
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Memoir in Poetry: Traci highlights how the collection feels like a memoir, reflecting Mosab's personal and collective experiences.
Quote:
- Traci Thomas (05:57): "This collection really does have such a wide variety of poems. It's almost like a memoir in poems."
The Urge to Write Amidst Turmoil
Traci poses a profound question about Mosab’s motivation to continue writing poetry despite the immense personal and communal traumas he endures.
Key Insights:
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Human Urge to Share Trauma: Mosab articulates that writing is a fundamental human response to witnessing and experiencing trauma. It serves as a means to process and communicate the relentless violence inflicted upon his community.
Quote:
- Mosab Abu Toha (08:05): "It is a human urge to share the trauma, the pain that I see that I witness every day."
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Ongoing Genocide: Mosab emphasizes that the violence against Palestinians is continuous and unending, necessitating ongoing documentation and sharing through his poetry.
Quote:
- Mosab Abu Toha (06:53): "This is an ongoing genocide."
Witnessing and Sharing Stories
Traci inquires about the emotional toll of documenting and sharing such harrowing stories through art.
Key Points:
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Emotional Resilience: Mosab acknowledges the emotional burden but distinguishes his feelings from those directly experiencing the atrocities, emphasizing his role in witnessing and conveying the suffering of others.
Quote:
- Mosab Abu Toha (10:29): "The feelings that I have are not more devastating than the feelings that a father in Gaza right now is struggling."
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Daily Losses: He shares personal anecdotes, including the tragic loss of his aunt's husband, underscoring the constant state of fear and loss in Gaza.
Quote:
- Mosab Abu Toha (09:16): "Three days ago, my aunt's husband was found killed in Gaza."
The Power of Poetry as Documentation
Traci explores Mosab’s approach to writing poetry, particularly how he distills immense and continuous trauma into accessible and resonant poems.
Key Discussions:
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Automatic Creation: Mosab describes his writing process as an organic response to grief and trauma rather than a deliberate attempt to create poetry.
Quote:
- Mosab Abu Toha (13:21): "I did not sit and say, okay, I want to write a poem about this."
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Historical Continuity: He draws parallels between his work and historical accounts of atrocities, such as Holocaust literature, to stress the importance of immediate and ongoing documentation.
Quote:
- Mosab Abu Toha (20:32): "This book is intended to anyone who wants to try and let their humanity work to test their humanity."
Rights and Genocide Debate
A significant portion of the conversation focuses on the rights of Palestinians and the characterization of the ongoing conflict as genocide.
Key Points:
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Human Rights: Mosab passionately argues that Palestinians have an inherent right to defend themselves against continual aggression, questioning global narratives that deny these rights.
Quote:
- Mosab Abu Toha (22:52): "Why do the Palestinians have no right to defend themselves, especially now when they are being genocided on a daily basis?"
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Language and Rhetoric: He critiques the politicization of terms like "genocide," emphasizing tangible actions and evidence over mere rhetoric.
Quote:
- Mosab Abu Toha (29:49): "I don't use explicit words... I just show the picture to the people and they should decide what kind of war crime this is."
Mosab’s Writing Process
Traci inquires about Mosab’s personal writing rituals and habits, revealing a fluid and spontaneous approach to his craft.
Key Insights:
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Irregular Writing Habits: Mosab admits to not writing regularly, with bursts of creativity often triggered by vivid and traumatic images.
Quote:
- Mosab Abu Toha (37:53): "I don't write on a regular basis... sometimes the poem stays in your mind. It haunts you until you face it."
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Digital and Physical Notes: While he prefers writing on a laptop, circumstances in Gaza necessitated note-taking with pen and paper.
Quote:
- Mosab Abu Toha (39:46): "I have this image here... that's a poem that is in the making."
The Edward Said Library
Traci shifts the conversation to Mosab’s significant achievement—the Edward Said Library—and its devastation.
Key Points:
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Cultural Loss: Mosab discusses the profound loss of the library’s resources, the communal space it provided, and the lives lost in its destruction.
Quote:
- Mosab Abu Toha (50:46): "It is a spiritual loss. It is an emotional loss."
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Mission of the Library: The library aimed to bridge Gaza with the outside world, providing access to international literature and fostering a community space despite severe restrictions.
Quote:
- Mosab Abu Toha (52:57): "I was bringing the outside world to the people in my cities."
Favorite Poems and Recommendations
Traci and Mosab share their favorite poems from Forest of Noise, highlighting the profound emotional and narrative depth of his work.
Key Highlights:
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Mosab’s Favorites: Right or Left stands out for Mosab due to its multi-faceted portrayal of Palestinian experiences.
Quote:
- Mosab Abu Toha (53:13): "A very favorite poem would be 'Right or Left.'"
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Traci’s Favorite: Traci resonates deeply with the poem No Art for its emotional impact.
Quote:
- Traci Thomas (53:33): "My favorite... was down to kind of a few... I loved 'No Art.'"
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Recommended Reads: Mosab suggests a range of books that complement Forest of Noise, including works by Mahmoud Darwish, Ghassan Kanafani, and Naomi Shihab Nye, emphasizing the importance of understanding Palestinian history and resilience through literature.
Quote:
- Mosab Abu Toha (54:43): "Books by Mahmoud Darwish's 'Memory for Forgetfulness,' 'The Drone Eats with Me' by Atef Abu Sayef, and others."
Dedication and Personal Connections
In an emotional closing, Mosab shares his desire for his late grandfather to read his work, highlighting the personal motivations behind his poetry.
Key Points:
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Personal Dedication: Mosab dedicates his book to his grandfather, a man he never met, whose suffering under occupation deeply influenced his writing.
Quote:
- Mosab Abu Toha (57:16): "I wish my grandfather could read this book because I wrote something about him."
Conclusion
The episode concludes with Traci encouraging listeners to engage with Mosab’s Forest of Noise, recommending it as a powerful addition to personal libraries and an essential narrative for understanding the Palestinian plight. She also reminds listeners of the December book club pick, Tacky by Rax King, and promotes community engagement through Patreon and social media.
Final Remarks:
- Traci Thomas (59:06): "Mosab, thank you so much for being here."
- Mosab Abu Toha (59:37): "Thank you Tracy."
Notable Quotes with Timestamps
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On Writing Amidst Conflict:
- Mosab Abu Toha (08:05): "It is a human urge to share the trauma, the pain that I see that I witness every day."
-
On Genocide and Rights:
- Mosab Abu Toha (22:52): "Why do the Palestinians have no right to defend themselves, especially now when they are being genocided on a daily basis?"
- Mosab Abu Toha (29:49): "I don't use explicit words... I just show the picture to the people and they should decide what kind of war crime this is."
-
On Cultural Loss:
- Mosab Abu Toha (50:46): "It is a spiritual loss. It is an emotional loss."
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On Dedication:
- Mosab Abu Toha (57:16): "I wish my grandfather could read this book because I wrote something about him."
Final Thoughts
Episode 349 of The Stacks offers a profound and moving exploration of Mosab Abu Toha’s poetry and his unwavering commitment to documenting the Palestinian experience. Through heartfelt conversation, listeners gain deep insights into the intersection of art, trauma, and resilience, making this episode a compelling must-listen for those seeking to understand the human stories behind the headlines.