Podcast Summary: The Stacks – Ep. 359 "It’s Rooted in Our Past with Rebecca Nagle"
Introduction In Episode 359 of The Stacks, host Traci Thomas engages in a profound conversation with Rebecca Nagle, a Cherokee writer and activist renowned for her incisive reporting on Native issues and advocacy for Indigenous rights. The episode delves deep into Rebecca’s latest work, By the Fire We Carry: The Generations' Long Fight for Justice on Native Land, exploring the historical and contemporary struggles of Native American tribes, particularly focusing on a landmark Supreme Court case that led to the largest restoration of tribal land in U.S. history.
Discussion on By the Fire We Carry Rebecca introduces her book, which chronicles the journey of a Supreme Court case originating from a small-town murder in 1999, culminating in a 2020 decision that reinstated significant tribal land rights in Oklahoma. She explains how the case initially appeared isolated but revealed broader implications for all five tribes in eastern Oklahoma—Muscogee (Creek), Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, and Seminole—ultimately resulting in a historic land restoration of approximately 19 million acres.
Historical Context and Reservation Policies Rebecca provides an in-depth analysis of the historical policies that led to the erosion of tribal sovereignty in Oklahoma. She discusses the allotment policy of the late 1800s, where communal tribal lands were forcibly divided into individual parcels, undermining tribal ownership and governance. This policy affected all five tribes in eastern Oklahoma, diminishing their sovereignty and setting the stage for the legal battles that would unfold over the next century.
Legal Battles and Federal Indian Law The conversation transitions to the complexities of federal Indian law, highlighting how legal interpretations have oscillated between supporting and undermining tribal sovereignty. Rebecca explains the significance of the McGirt v. Oklahoma case, where the Supreme Court affirmed that the Muscogee (Creek) Nation's reservation still existed, thereby recognizing the tribe's sovereignty over the land. She contrasts this with the Castro-Huerta case, where the Supreme Court ruled that Oklahoma could prosecute non-Native individuals for crimes against Native people on reservation land, illustrating the ongoing "push and pull" in federal Indian law.
Notable Quotes:
- Rebecca Nagle on Federal Indian Law: “The Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas has called federal Indian law schizophrenic. It’s like a constant battlefield of our wins, our losses, and the compromises that we've had to make.” ([33:08])
- Rebecca on Education and Erasure: “When we talk about the history of this country with a lens towards racial justice, Native people are left out. Even legal scholars pretend like it's not an important part of our Constitution.” ([42:01])
Impact of Historical Erasure on Contemporary Issues Rebecca emphasizes the pervasive erasure of Native American history and its ramifications on current societal and legal issues. She draws parallels between the treatment of Indigenous peoples and other marginalized groups, likening Native Americans to "legal canaries in the coal mine of our democracy." This metaphor underscores how the systemic injustices faced by Native communities reflect broader democratic flaws and inform the treatment of other vulnerable populations today.
Genocide and Language in Historical Narratives A critical segment of the discussion addresses the characterization of the Trail of Tears and other atrocities against Native Americans as genocide. Rebecca argues that the reluctance to use the term "genocide" is deliberate, as it invokes international laws and moral accountability that challenge the sanitized narratives often presented in mainstream discourse. She asserts, “Our country has committed genocide, but we've never taken account for it,” highlighting the importance of acknowledging and understanding these historical truths to address ongoing injustices.
Rebecca’s Writing Process and Audience Engagement Transitioning to her role as an author, Rebecca shares insights into her extensive research and writing process. She details her methodical approach to unearthing primary sources, including trial transcripts and historical documents, to provide a comprehensive and accessible narrative. Rebecca aims to bridge the gap between academic discourse and public understanding, making complex legal and historical issues relatable to a broader audience. She notes, “I try really hard for my writing to be accessible. I don't want it to just live in the space of academia.”
Recommendations and Literary Influences Rebecca recommends several books that complement her work, including Ties That Bind by Tiya Miles, I’ve Been Here All Along by Elena Roberts, and Still the Waters Run by Angie Debo. These titles offer additional perspectives on Native American history and legal struggles, enriching the reader’s understanding of the topics discussed in her book.
Personal Reflections and Achievements Towards the end of the episode, Rebecca reflects on her personal connection to the history she writes about, mentioning her ancestors' involvement in the Treaty of New Echota, which led to the Trail of Tears. She candidly shares her thoughts on her ancestors' decisions, acknowledging their flawed choices while recognizing their intentions to preserve their nation's survival. Additionally, Rebecca celebrates her recent accolades, including being a finalist for the Women’s Nonfiction Prize and featured in multiple prestigious literary lists.
Conclusion Traci Thomas concludes the episode by reiterating the significance of Rebecca Nagle’s contributions to understanding Native American history and legal challenges. She encourages listeners to engage with Rebecca’s work and stay informed about the ongoing struggles for Indigenous rights and sovereignty. The episode underscores the vital importance of preserving and acknowledging Native narratives to foster a more inclusive and just society.
Key Takeaways:
- By the Fire We Carry illuminates the intricate legal battles for tribal land rights in Oklahoma, highlighting the lasting impact of historical policies on contemporary Native sovereignty.
- Federal Indian law remains a contentious and evolving battlefield, with Supreme Court decisions like McGirt and Castro-Huerta showcasing the fluctuating support for tribal governance.
- The systemic erasure of Native American history in education and media perpetuates ignorance and impedes societal progress towards racial justice.
- Acknowledging terms like "genocide" in historical narratives is crucial for accountability and understanding the depth of injustices faced by Indigenous communities.
- Rebecca Nagle's writing bridges academic research and public discourse, making complex issues accessible and engaging for a wide audience.
Notable Quotes:
- “Why gather all of this information if not to make sense of it?” – Rebecca Nagle ([17:34])
- “Indigenous people are really the canary in the coal mine of our democracy.” – Rebecca Nagle ([35:57])
- “Our country has committed genocide, but we've never taken account for it.” – Rebecca Nagle ([46:10])
Final Remarks For those interested in exploring the rich and complex history of Native American tribes and their ongoing fight for justice, Rebecca Nagle’s By the Fire We Carry is an essential read. Join The Stacks community for more insightful discussions on books and the profound ways they shape our understanding of culture, race, and politics.