Podcast Summary: The Stacks Episode 363 – "Gender and Genre Are the Same Word" with Torrey Peters
Release Date: March 19, 2025
Introduction
In Episode 363 of The Stacks, host Traci Thomas welcomes acclaimed author Torrey Peters to delve into the intricate relationship between gender and genre in literature. The conversation centers around Peters' latest work, Stag Dance, a collection of four stories exploring trans identity, power, and transformation across various genres. The episode offers a deep dive into Peters' creative process, her views on gendered storytelling, and the liberation she experiences by defying genre expectations.
Overview of Stag Dance
Torrey Peters introduces Stag Dance as a quartet comprising three short stories and one novella, each situated in a distinct genre: speculative fiction, teen romance, tall tale western, and horror. Peters explains the thematic focus on different facets of trans and gendered life, emphasizing how each genre serves as a vessel to explore these identities uniquely.
Torrey Peters [03:47]: "It's a quartet of four stories, sort of like three novellas and one short novel, each in a different genre that each takes on a sort of a different aspect of trans life or just kind of gendered life in general."
Genre and Gender Interconnectedness
A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the linguistic coincidence that "genre" translates to "gender" in French, sparking a metaphorical exploration of how genres can reflect and subvert gender norms.
Traci Thomas [04:25]: "Yes, I love the collection. I had so much fun thinking about both genre and gender and also how those things maybe are, like, super connected."
Peters elaborates on this connection, asserting that both genre and gender are frameworks that shape narratives and identities but can be deconstructed to reveal deeper emotional truths.
Creative Process and Breaking Free from Expectations
Peters shares her journey of writing Stag Dance, highlighting the challenges of following up her successful debut, Detransition Baby. She discusses her initial struggles with genre expectations and how embracing unexpected genres like western and horror liberated her storytelling.
Torrey Peters [07:56]: "I felt like I was writing without any expectations. And number two, all of the ways that people talk about gender and transness, that in some ways get a little over determined or calcified. I had to kind of reinvent them to talk about them."
Peters recounts how writing a high school dance story within a western framework allowed her to subvert traditional genre tropes, creating a fresh and engaging narrative.
Language and Emotional Truth in Storytelling
The conversation delves into Peters' deliberate avoidance of clinical terms like "gender dysphoria," opting instead for more visceral, lived expressions of trans experiences. This choice aims to create a more authentic emotional resonance within her stories.
Torrey Peters [10:25]: "Like a word like gender dysphoria… just feels dead to me. They're just like… there's like a clunk in the sentence."
By inventing a "logger idiom" for her title story, Peters emphasizes the importance of language that flows naturally within the narrative, enhancing authenticity and reader immersion.
Navigating Success and Creative Freedom
Peters addresses the pressure of living up to her debut's success and how writing Stag Dance served as a form of creative liberation. She explains that diversifying her genres allowed her to explore new narrative voices without being confined to a singular thematic focus.
Torrey Peters [17:56]: "If I want to do something else a little like, you know, surprising people might come with me. And that, yeah, that's what you want as a writer. It's just like that freedom to be like, let me try something out."
This freedom not only rejuvenates her writing but also invites readers to engage with her work without preconceived notions.
Exploring Genre as a Shortcut
Peters discusses how adhering to genre conventions can streamline the storytelling process by providing familiar frameworks, allowing her to focus on character development and plot innovation.
Torrey Peters [35:45]: "Like, the way that you deviate from the script, not so much the way that you follow it. And so for instance, in like infect your friends and loved ones, which is a post-apocalyptic story… I can just go on to the thing that I care about, which is like, the relationship between my characters."
By leveraging genre as a foundation, Peters efficiently constructs her narratives, inserting unique elements that distinguish her stories from traditional genre offerings.
Character Naming and Voice
Naming characters emerges as a nuanced aspect of Peters' writing. She often incorporates historically authentic and sometimes whimsical names to reflect the cultural and temporal settings of her stories.
Torrey Peters [45:48]: "I started looking at, like, the actual names of logger names… I had to do it. Yeah. Like, I have to give the stories their own unique voices."
This attention to detail enhances the richness of her worlds, making each story within Stag Dance distinct and memorable.
Writing Habits and Evolution
Peters shares how her writing routine has transformed over the years, moving from a regimented Adderall-fueled schedule to a more relaxed, joy-infused approach. Her time spent in Colombia has influenced her writing style, infusing it with humor and a lighter tone while maintaining depth.
Torrey Peters [48:13]: "I now spend half the year in Colombia… like, making fresh smoothies, like, and the… I reach for a joke much more than I reach for like a knife."
This evolution reflects her personal growth and the newfound balance between productivity and creative enjoyment.
Inspiration and Literary Influences
Peters cites classic Americana literature like Moby Dick and True Grit as inspirations, appreciating how these works blend rich vernacular with deep character studies. She draws parallels between her writing and authors like Marlon James, valuing the freedom to experiment with language and narrative structure.
Torrey Peters [58:36]: "Like, how much people complain about how tall they are in their, in their dating profile… That's, that's a body question, same as a trans body question."
Her ability to channel influences while forging her unique voice allows her stories to resonate on multiple levels.
Future Directions
Looking ahead, Peters expresses a desire to intertwine themes of money, power, and politics with trans identity. She aims to explore how transness intersects with broader cultural and economic forces, seeking to make these connections legible through fiction.
Torrey Peters [61:26]: "I want to start writing a little bit more about like, money and like the connections between like transness and politics out there."
Conclusion
Traci Thomas and Torrey Peters conclude the episode by reflecting on the multifaceted nature of storytelling intertwined with gender dynamics. Peters emphasizes the universal emotional truths that transcend specific identities, advocating for narratives that resonate broadly while honoring individual experiences.
Torrey Peters [63:52]: "That's who I. That's who I send it to."
Stag Dance stands as a testament to Peters' innovative approach to genre and gender, challenging conventional narratives and inviting readers to explore the depths of trans identity through diverse literary lenses.
Notable Quotes:
- Torrey Peters [00:53]: "I got a question yesterday from like a British interviewer that was like, are you stuck writing trans stories now forever?"
- Torrey Peters [04:31]: "Genre is gender in French."
- Torrey Peters [10:25]: "A lot of those words just feel dead to me."
- Torrey Peters [17:56]: "It's just like that freedom to be like, let me try something out."
- Torrey Peters [35:45]: "The way that you deviate from the script, not so much the way that you follow it."
Final Thoughts
The Stacks Episode 363 offers a rich exploration of how narrative genres can serve as both frameworks and tools for dissecting complex identities. Torrey Peters' insights into the symbiotic relationship between genre and gender provide listeners with a deeper understanding of contemporary storytelling and its potential to challenge societal norms.