Podcast Summary: The Stacks Ep. 364 – They Were Her Property by Stephanie E. Jones-Rogers featuring Temby Denton-Hurst

Release Date: March 26, 2025
Host: Traci Thomas
Guest: Temby Denton-Hurst

Introduction to the Episode

In Episode 364 of The Stacks, host Traci Thomas welcomes returning guest Temby Denton-Hurst to discuss Stephanie E. Jones-Rogers' groundbreaking historical work, They Were Her Property: White Women as Slaves. This episode delves deep into the book's exploration of the active roles white women played in the institution of slavery in the American South, challenging the long-held narrative of their passive complicity.

Overall Impressions of the Book

Traci Thomas opens the discussion by expressing her awe at the meticulous research and the depth of historical detail presented by Jones-Rogers. She highlights the book's ability to uncover suppressed histories and reshape our understanding of white women's involvement in slavery.

Temby Denton-Hurst concurs, appreciating the book's unflinching portrayal of the brutal realities of slavery. She acknowledges the book's repetitive emphasis on key points, explaining that this repetition serves to reinforce the argument against contrary scholarly narratives that have historically downplayed or concealed white women's active participation in slavery.

Temby Denton-Hurst (01:42): "...I really like it. It's a very unflinching kind of book that does not pull back and shy away from the realities..."

Key Themes and Discussions

1. Autonomy and Complicity of White Women

The conversation centers on how white women maintained autonomy within the patriarchal structure of the South. Denton-Hurst emphasizes that white women were not merely silent witnesses but active beneficiaries of slavery.

Denton-Hurst (01:04): "Everybody has autonomy. Regardless of how the society seems to be set up from the outside. That autonomy is very much there..." (01:04)

Traci adds that the book underscores a societal ignorance of true historical narratives, revealing how systemic slavery was integral to the Southern economy and way of life.

2. Mastery and Economic Benefit

A significant portion of the discussion examines the concept of "mastery" as depicted in the book. Both hosts were struck by how slave ownership was treated as a skill and an art form, with dedicated literature like "Cosmo Slave Mistress" arising from this ideology.

Traci Thomas (19:35): "...the word master as implying that you could be masterful at the job..."

Denton-Hurst draws parallels between historical slave economies and modern industries, highlighting the ongoing reliance on exploitative labor practices.

3. Violence and Hidden Brutality

The hosts delve into the nuanced portrayal of violence in the book, differentiating between the visible brutality of male slave owners and the more insidious, hidden cruelty wielded by women.

Denton-Hurst (28:03): "Like, it's insidious and it's painful and it's deep, but it's almost... hidden."

They discuss specific instances, such as the use of nettle whips by madames to inflict pain discreetly, emphasizing the calculated nature of such abuses aimed at maintaining economic gains without overt public scrutiny.

4. Legal Complicity and Historical Erasure

The episode explores how laws were crafted to protect white slave owners, often absolving them of responsibility for violence against enslaved individuals. This legal framework facilitated the perpetuation of slavery by minimizing accountability.

Denton-Hurst (44:06): "...if a white person, you could not. If a tree falls in the forest, AKA black person is the tree..." (45:04)

Traci points out that these historical legal structures continue to influence modern laws, perpetuating systemic injustices.

5. Cultural Representation and Infantilization

The discussion touches on how white women were culturally infantilized, allowing them to participate in and benefit from slavery while maintaining a facade of gentleness and innocence. This duality enabled the continued oppression without societal backlash.

Denton-Hurst (63:19): "All white women. This is required reading for all white women..."

They critique contemporary perceptions that separate "good" white women from those who perpetuate systemic racism, arguing that the book dismantles this false dichotomy.

Notable Insights and Perspectives

• Repetitiveness as Academic Rigor: Both Traci and Temby acknowledge the book’s repetitive nature as a methodical reinforcement of its thesis, necessary for academic thoroughness and challenging entrenched historical narratives.

• Interconnectedness of Violence and Economy: The hosts highlight how economic incentives were intrinsically linked to the violence inflicted upon enslaved individuals, making the institution of slavery a deeply embedded economic system.

• Psychological Separation and Justification: They discuss how white women employed psychological mechanisms to justify their participation in slavery, maintaining a separation between public personas and private actions to preserve societal status and economic benefits.

Traci Thomas (27:28): "...the performance of white womanness can be at odds with the actual interior power..."

• Modern Parallels: The conversation draws parallels between historical slavery practices and modern exploitative systems, such as prison labor and corporate bailouts, illustrating the persistence of similar power dynamics.

Conclusions and Reflections

Traci and Temby conclude that They Were Her Property is essential reading for understanding the complex roles white women played in sustaining slavery. The book not only challenges existing historical narratives but also compels readers to critically evaluate the perpetuation of systemic injustices in both historical and modern contexts.

They emphasize the importance of recognizing complicity and the multifaceted nature of oppression, urging listeners to engage deeply with such works to foster a more comprehensive and truthful understanding of history.

Traci Thomas (43:06): "...white women owned slaves because it was good for white women..."
Temby Denton-Hurst (65:55): "...they get the best edit in the world inclusive of the white women who wielded their power..."

Upcoming Book Club and Final Remarks

The episode wraps up with an announcement of the next book club pick for April, celebrating Poetry Month with Lucille Clifton's Blessing the Boats: New and Selected Poems, 1988–2000. Traci also encourages listeners to join the community through Patreon and subscribe to her Substack newsletter for more literary discussions and exclusive content.

Key Quotes with Timestamps:

• Temby Denton-Hurst (01:04): "Everybody has autonomy. Regardless of how the society seems to be set up from the outside. That autonomy is very much there..."

• Traci Thomas (19:35): "...the word master as implying that you could be masterful at the job..."

• Traci Thomas (27:28): "...the performance of white womanness can be at odds with the actual interior power..."

• Traci Thomas (43:06): "...white women owned slaves because it was good for white women..."

• Temby Denton-Hurst (65:55): "...they get the best edit in the world inclusive of the white women who wielded their power..."

Final Thoughts

The Stacks Episode 364 offers a profound exploration of They Were Her Property, urging listeners to confront uncomfortable truths about history and recognize the enduring legacy of systemic oppression. Through thoughtful dialogue and critical analysis, Traci Thomas and Temby Denton-Hurst provide listeners with a deeper understanding of the nuanced roles white women played in one of America's darkest chapters.