Podcast Summary: The Stacks – Episode 376: "People Be Gay" with Mia McKenzie

Introduction to the Episode

Release Date: June 18, 2025
Host: Traci Thomas
Guest: Mia McKenzie, Award-Winning Author and Creator of Black Girl Dangerous
Book Discussed: These Heathens by Mia McKenzie

1. Welcoming Mia McKenzie

Traci Thomas opens the episode by warmly welcoming Mia McKenzie, highlighting her accolades and contributions to the literary and queer communities. Mia introduces herself, mentioning her creation of "Black Girl Dangerous," a media project that centers queer and trans people of color.

Notable Quote:

Traci Thomas [03:15]: "I'm really excited to have you here for this new book which hopefully will make the list again."

2. Exploring "These Heathens"

Mia delves into her latest novel, These Heathens, describing it as a fusion of comedy and historical fiction set in the 1960s Atlanta. She introduces Doris Steele, a 17-year-old grappling with the decision to get an abortion during a tumultuous period marked by the civil rights movement and burgeoning queer communities.

Notable Quote:

Mia McKenzie [04:06]: "These Heathens is what you get when comedy and historical fiction mess around in the backseat of a 1960s Studebaker convertible."

3. The Writing Process: Beginning, Middle, and End

Traci and Mia discuss the intricacies of crafting a novel, with Mia emphasizing the importance of a robust middle section. She shares her outlining process, ensuring that every part of the story propels it forward without any lulls.

Notable Quote:

Mia McKenzie [08:00]: "I'm thinking about the middle in that first outline... there’s no lag. I feel like the scariest thing is you don’t want to write a book, and in the middle, it just starts to kind of drag there."

4. Historical Fiction and Real-Life Figures

The conversation shifts to Mia's approach to incorporating real historical figures into her fiction. She emphasizes respect and authenticity, ensuring that portrayals of icons like Martin Luther King Jr. and Coretta Scott King are both accurate and nuanced.

Notable Quote:

Mia McKenzie [12:13]: "Everyone who appears in the story who is a real person... I don’t want to talk shit about Martin Luther King, you know."

5. Representation of Queer Black Communities

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the depiction of queer black communities in the 1960s Atlanta setting. Mia highlights the presence of influential queer figures and the underground queer culture that existed alongside the civil rights movement.

Notable Quote:

Mia McKenzie [34:34]: "I'm queer and I write really queer stuff. I want a lot of queer stuff happening in a novel if I can get it."

6. The Relevance of Historical Themes Today

Traci draws parallels between the historical themes in These Heathens and contemporary issues faced in 2025, such as abortion rights, LGBTQ+ representation, and societal upheavals. Mia reflects on the cyclical nature of these struggles and the frustration of progress seeming stagnant.

Notable Quote:

Mia McKenzie [21:37]: "I find it frustrating to feel like things haven’t changed as much as we fooled ourselves into believing that they had."

7. The Title "These Heathens"

The duo discusses the creative process behind selecting the book's title. Originally titled after the protagonist, Doris Steele, Mia and her team brainstormed alternatives, ultimately settling on "These Heathens" for its voice and resonance within the black community.

Notable Quote:

Mia McKenzie [43:30]: "These Heathens... she's always calling somebody heathen. And it's funny. And I also just feel like black people get what this means."

8. Character Development and Naming

Mia shares her methodology for naming characters, blending personal preferences with historical accuracy. She often consults the Social Security Administration's list of names from the era to ensure authenticity.

Notable Quote:

Mia McKenzie [48:20]: "For most characters, what I do is I look at the Social Security Administration's list of names for the year that person was born."

9. Writing Rituals and Processes

The conversation takes a lighter turn as Mia discusses her writing rituals, including her preference for quiet environments, favorite snacks like kettle corn, and the importance of transitioning mentally into writing mode.

Notable Quotes:

Mia McKenzie [49:17]: "I don't like to have any noise, any music or anything, because my brain will just go to the music."

Traci Thomas [51:50]: "I want you to report back when you come up with one [ritual]."

10. Influences and Recommendations

Mia recommends influential books that inspired her journey into historical fiction, notably James McBride's The Good Lord Bird and Lauren Wilkinson's American Spy. She also mentions non-fiction works that shed light on the less-discussed aspects of the civil rights movement.

Notable Quote:

Mia McKenzie [56:50]: "The Good Lord Bird by James McBride was a book that I read some years ago and absolutely loved it... American Spy, which is another historical fiction."

11. Personal Reflections and Aspirations

In a heartfelt moment, Mia expresses her desire for her late grandmother to read and enjoy These Heathens, underscoring the personal connections and inspirations behind her storytelling.

Notable Quote:

Mia McKenzie [58:20]: "Oh, my grandmother, for sure. Yeah, absolutely her. She would be so into it."

Conclusion

Traci wraps up the episode by encouraging listeners to acquire These Heathens and participate in the ongoing Stacks Book Club. She extends gratitude to Mia McKenzie for her insightful contributions and reminds the audience of upcoming events and resources.

Additional Resources

• These Heathens by Mia McKenzie is available at all major book retailers and local libraries.
• Join the Stacks Book Club or access exclusive content by visiting www.thestackspodcast.com and subscribing to the newsletter at tracythomas.substack.com.

Connect with The Stacks

• Patreon: patreon.com/thestacks
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Summary Prepared by The Stacks Podcast Team