Podcast Summary: "Frankenstein by Mary Shelley — The Stacks Book Club"
Podcast: The Stacks
Host: Traci Thomas
Guest: Angela Flournoy
Episode: 396
Date: October 29, 2025
Main Theme
This Stacks Book Club episode is a lively and layered deep dive into Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein (1818/1831), exploring its enduring cultural, political, and philosophical resonance. Host Traci Thomas and celebrated author Angela Flournoy unpack the novel’s complex structure, its multiple allegorical interpretations, and the profound questions it raises about creation, responsibility, oppression, and the nature of monstrosity. The conversation weaves in the history of Shelley's writing, the significance of its different editions, and how Frankenstein functions as a bottomless well for modern readings—from disability and race to AI and revolution.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. The Enduring Power and Pop Culture Myth of Frankenstein
[00:57, 05:04, 32:51]
- Angela opens by noting that Frankenstein has endured due to both its philosophical depth and its ability to shock and disturb across 200 years, especially through the figure of the Creature:
"People have been just as immediately repulsed and grossed out and freaked out by the concept of this creation for 200 years... Even though the book is arguing, that ain't his fault. It's not his fault he's disgusting." — Angela Flournoy [00:57]
- Traci shares her surprise at how little the actual book has in common with its pop culture image, especially noting that many believe "Frankenstein" is the monster, not the creator.
- The duo highlight how the novel is less a horror story and more “an allegory for everything” [07:28]. The Creature’s portrayal in the book is far more nuanced than the green, bolt-necked image from film.
2. Editions, History, Mary Shelley’s Life
[09:10, 10:13, 23:15, 24:47]
- Traci and Angela discuss the two principal editions: 1818 (edited by Percy Shelley) and 1831 (revised by Mary post-Percy's death with significant narrative/philosophical shifts).
- They break down notable differences (e.g., Elizabeth as Victor’s blood cousin in 1818, adopted in 1831) and how those shifts affect reader sympathies and themes of fate vs. agency.
- Traci gives a rich portrait of Mary Shelley: a teen writing amid personal loss and radical, bohemian influences (her parents, Percy Shelley, Lord Byron). The discussion links Shelley’s biography, especially her identity as a young, grieving, sexually and intellectually unconventional woman, to the book’s deep concern with motherhood and creation.
3. Narrative Structure: The "Nesting Doll" Framework
[13:45, 15:09]
- Both remark on the “nesting doll” (frame narrative) structure: an outer frame (Walton’s letters), Victor’s confession, the Creature’s embedded story, and further embedded tales.
- Angela offers an insightful comparison to slave narratives, which often use layers of attestation to legitimize a marginalized account [16:52], arguing that Shelley’s structure works to establish narrative authority in a male-dominated literary world.
- The unreliable narrator trope is highlighted—especially Victor’s self-serving and persuasive account of events.
"It's not like an honest confession. It's a persuasive sort of narrative." — Traci [21:39]
4. Sympathies, Allegiances, and Modern Readings
[25:03, 27:11, 28:25, 29:42]
- Traci and Angela explore shifting sympathies: Traci initially sees the Creature as entitled but ends up “ride or die for the creation,” viewing him as an icon of resistance. Angela feels the novel intentionally resists a simple allegiance, instead keeping questions "open and turning over."
- They discuss how Frankenstein feels inexhaustibly relevant: “I could not help but think of Israel and Palestine reading this book… about oppressed groups and their inability to be human.” — Traci [28:25]
- Angela notes the text endures because basic power dynamics (“oppressed and oppressor”) can always be grafted onto the Victor/Creature relationship.
5. Race, Disability, and Otherness
[35:45, 36:00, 38:29, 41:30]
- Traci explores how scholars have read the Creature as a metaphor for race ("he was often interpreted ... as Black") and disability ("a disabled subject made monstrous by a society that equates difference with danger").
- Angela expands: "In all of the instances where the creation is sort of popping up on people, their reaction is so quick ... is he really that crazy looking ... It's up to Victor's description." [38:29]
- They muse about adaptations where the Creature is nearly indistinguishable from Victor, making his “monstrosity” purely a product of outsider projection.
6. Adaptation, Telephone Effect, and the Creation of a New Monster
[41:26, 42:10, 44:03]
- Angela points out that the creature’s pop image (“stitches,” “bolts,” “green skin”) was created by later adaptations and is absent in the original.
- Traci observes: "This book that’s endured ... has created its own monster, which is this totally different interpretation of the text ... by all these different artists." [43:52]
- They explore how each adaptation is less about Shelley’s text than about the concerns and aesthetics of its adapters.
7. The Women of Frankenstein
[47:35, 50:14, 52:37]
- Traci catalogues the women: Elizabeth, the mother, Justine, Margaret (Walton’s sister), Agatha, Safi—most victims, sidelined, or supporting male characters.
- Angela: "She was staying true to [male] POV ... but the creation, who has not been socialized, also takes on these patriarchal kind of assumptions."
- Traci sees a knowing playfulness in Shelley’s portrayals—a subtle drag of her male contemporaries:
"I think she's literally being like, I'm going to write a story about ambition ... and men who throw women away and don't think about women at all." — Traci [50:23]
8. The Big Themes: Vengeance, Responsibility, Remorse
[52:38, 53:48, 55:19, 58:24]
- The episode circles the book’s burning questions:
- What do we owe to our creations/children/art?
- Are we responsible for their actions?
- How do we process remorse and seek revenge?
- Angela: “How much are we responsible for their actions? The book is really interested in presenting those questions and not necessarily having answers."
- Traci relates this to resistance and rebellion: “Sometimes you gotta get buck wild. … How long is he supposed to take everyone hating him?” [57:55]
- They discuss contemporary resonances: Frankenstein as allegory for slavery, Palestine/Israel, tech, and any cycle of oppression and blowback.
9. Revenge, Targeted Violence, and the Ethics of Creation
[61:06, 61:58, 62:22, 64:39]
- The hosts vividly narrate the revenge arc:
- Victor refuses to build a mate for the Creature.
- The Creature vows vengeance: "See you on your wedding night."
- Creation destroys what Victor loves most (Elizabeth), yet keeps Victor alive—his attention is "what it feels like to be loved," for better or worse.
- This codependency subverts both the allegory of child/parent and creator/creation.
10. Allegory Overflow: Tech Bros, AI, Trump, Climate Change
[65:44, 66:02, 66:10]
- The book is so fertile it’s been read as allegory for tech moguls, the atomic bomb, climate change, and Donald Trump ("Frankenstein or the creation? ... He could be both the Frankenstein who created this show and also the creation of America.") [66:10]
- Both agree: the novel’s ambiguous, open-ended questions are its greatest power.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- On the Monster's Immediate Rejection:
"It wasn't until it had life that you realized it was ugly. What's going on here?" — Angela Flournoy [30:29]
- On Authority and Unreliable Narration:
"He’s not a reliable narrator at all." — Angela Flournoy [21:34] "He's convincing him and us that this is the most disgusting thing. But we don't know that. We don't know." — Traci [33:06]
- On the Text’s Modern Allegorical Flexibility:
"I could not help but think of Israel and Palestine reading this book… about oppressed groups and their inability to be human." — Traci [28:25]
- On the Women Characters’ Role:
"Shelley was staying true to POV... [But] the creation, who has not been socialized, also takes on these patriarchal assumptions about women's innate goodness and plainness." — Angela Flournoy [48:22]
- On Shifting Allegiances:
"I totally swung the other way and was like, I am ride or die for the creation. Like, if you want to kill everybody, fuck Victor. He's the worst." — Traci [27:46]
- On the Unanswerable Questions:
"The book is really interested in turning over these questions more than it’s interested in us coming away with, 'am I team X or Y?'" — Angela [26:07]
Noteworthy Timestamps
- 00:57: Angela: Why the Creature still shocks (theme of disgust and projection)
- 05:32: Angela’s history of rereading and the book’s narrative density
- 09:10: Traci on the two key editions and their significance
- 13:45: Narrative structure as "nesting dolls" and how Shelley establishes authority
- 23:15–24:47: Deep dive into Mary Shelley’s biography and its bearing on the novel
- 27:46: Traci’s swing in allegiance to the Creation
- 29:42: Angela: Why the novel’s dynamic endures through centuries
- 35:45–41:30: Race, disability, otherness as interpreted through the Creature
- 47:21–51:16: Women characters: marginalization, subversion, Shelley’s meta-commentary
- 52:38–58:24: Vengeance, compassion, creation, and contemporary relevance
- 61:01–64:09: Revenge, codependency, and the gothic climax
- 65:58–66:10: Allegory for tech, Trump, and the shape-shifting adaptability of Frankenstein
Conclusion
This episode models exactly why Frankenstein has endured: each generation finds in it a mirror for their own cultural anxieties and ethical dilemmas. Traci and Angela illuminate not just Shelley’s philosophical brilliance and historical context, but the novel’s unique ability to hold contradiction, unsettle allegiances, and remain endlessly adaptable—from readings on slavery to disability to AI. They leave listeners with lingering questions, lively debate, and a new appreciation for a text forever mutating to meet each age’s monsters.
Next Month’s Book Club: We the Animals by Justin Torres
Memorable Sign-off:
"This book is really not clear whose side we’re supposed to be on or what we’re supposed to make of it, and I think that is like, why this book is so good." — Traci [53:42]