Sam (2:48)

Today I am joined by one of.

Tracy Thomas (2:50)

My newest friends in the book world universe. His name is Mikey Friedman. He is the creator of Page Break.

Sam (3:00)

Which is a out loud reading retreat extravaganza. I'm gonna let him explain it to you, but first I just want to say, Mikey, welcome to the stacks.

Mikey Friedman (3:10)

Thank you, Tracy. Honored to be here.

Tracy Thomas (3:13)

I'm honored to have you.

Sam (3:14)

I'm so excited.

Tracy Thomas (3:16)

I guess we should. Before we even get to Page break.

Mikey Friedman (3:19)

Yeah.

Tracy Thomas (3:19)

I want a little bit about you. Where are you from? Where did you grow up? What's your relationship to book? Books give me just like a little something something.

Mikey Friedman (3:28)

Yeah, I. Well, I grew up in Amherst, Massachusetts. I like to always point out Western Mass, Not Boston.

Sam (3:34)

Okay, thank you.

Mikey Friedman (3:35)

And I studied advertising in undergrad at Syracuse and moved to the city to pursue advertising. Worked in ad agencies for 10 years prior to doing Page Break.

Tracy Thomas (3:45)

Okay.

Mikey Friedman (3:46)

Still do some marketing freelance stuff to pay for my extravagant lifestyle. But the goal is to do Page Break full time. And yeah, I live in Brooklyn in Bed Stuy. Reading has been. I've sort of come into reading later in life, I think, maybe compared to some other guests you've had in the past. But really in college, I started reading more like queer novels and had a few classes that got me excited about reading. And then, you know, the inspiration to launch Page Break, which we'll talk about, was like as much about the experience of bringing people together as it is the books, if not more. And Page Break is a fusion of all my favorite things in one weekend. It's meeting new people, it's amazing restaurant quality meals, it's drinking wine, and it's reading aloud together. So I'm certainly not the most well read guest you've had on this show, but I'm very passionate about bringing people together through the power of books and reading aloud.

Sam (4:39)

Well, let me tell you a secret. I'm also not the most well read person I've had on this show by far. Oh, my God. No. I have people on the show and I'm like, so embarrassed. I'm like, I've never read that. I've never heard of that. I don't know what you're saying just.

Tracy Thomas (4:52)

Kind of go like this.

Mikey Friedman (4:53)

Oh, yeah.

Tracy Thomas (4:53)

Wow.

Sam (4:54)

I love that.

Mikey Friedman (4:55)

Okay, that's good. Yeah, I'm writing this down.

Sam (4:58)

Yeah. And now that I released, like, some of these video, like, clips of the show, it can be a little bit embarrassing because I think you can see on my face when I have no idea what the person's talking about.

Mikey Friedman (5:07)

You used to be able to hide by the audio only.

Sam (5:09)

Yeah, I could manifest my voice. And now I'll sometimes watch back the video and I'm like, can't use that clip because you look like an idiot.

Mikey Friedman (5:17)

Yeah, no rolling your eyes at me, Tracy.

Sam (5:19)

Oh, that's allowed. It's the roll. The rolling eyes is fine. It's the. It's the blank stare when someone's like, Moby Dick and I'm like, oh, okay.

Mikey Friedman (5:28)

I love that for you. Yeah.

Sam (5:32)

Okay, wait, before we get to page break, forget to page break.

Mikey Friedman (5:34)

Yes.

Tracy Thomas (5:35)

You and I connected through an earlier guest of the show from this year, Ira Madison the third. How do you know Ira?

Mikey Friedman (5:43)

I met Ira at a dinner in New York through our mutual friend Alex. And we've just become fun New York literary friends. And I know. I remember. I think I was like, on the subway or something when I listened to the Stacks episode with you and Ira. And it was, like, still so early in the page break story. Like, I think it was only after the first few treats. And it was such a pinch me moment for me just to, like, hear two, two, like, really well known, amazing people in the book world like, talking about my project. And so that was so special. And now it's so cool that I get to be on the stacks, too.

Sam (6:14)

I'm so excited. Okay, wait.

Tracy Thomas (6:16)

Take us to the creation of Patreon. You're working in advertising. You're reading a little bit here and there.

Sam (6:21)

At what point are you like, I've got an idea. I should start a book retreat weekend extravaganza company.

Mikey Friedman (6:31)

So it was 2019 before COVID and I was, like, just talking to my friend in his kitchen about how I like reading gay novels. I would love to, like, connect with people in a different way than, like, just, like, partying and going out to restaurants in New York, which is, like, very much core to my activity list still to this day. But I was, like, trying to find a new way to meet new people. And I was like, oh, obviously I should join a book club, right? Like, that's a thing that people do. But we sort of had this extended conversation about how the idea of joining a book club, if you're like a busy New Yorker and travel a lot and have work events and like the format doesn't always work. And committing to an eight week meeting in a, you know, bookstore in the Lower east side or virtual, it's just like hard to fit into your schedule.

Tracy Thomas (7:16)

Yeah.

Mikey Friedman (7:16)

And it's riddled with a lot of anxiety. And you know, there's some interesting stats as I got into this project of like, most book clubs don't last for that reason. Like, it's hard logistically. People come in and out. It's maybe not scratching the edge for everyone as much as it could. So then I was like, okay, I'm not going to join a book club. Actually, like in that same conversation. And then maybe two minutes later he was like, oh, we should also like, I was thinking we could get all of our friends and go upstate for a weekend and have like a cute, you know, fall moment upstate. And I was like, wait, what if we just did the book club in a weekend? So it's like no one has to do the schedule thing. We can just like knock it out, so to speak. And then we can like really get into it versus like taking breaks and having homework and yeah, doing that whole thing. And then I was like, reading retreats are certainly a thing. Like, I didn't definitely didn't invent reading retreats.

Tracy Thomas (8:03)

No.

Mikey Friedman (8:04)

But I went down this whole rabbit hole and started doing a ton of research on them and it felt like there weren't any that really appealed to me personally in terms of like my interests and my tastes. And then I came across this organization in the UK called the Reader, which is a NHS funded public health organization that goes into prisons and nursing homes and schools and reads aloud as group therapy for adults.

Sam (8:29)

Oh my God.

Mikey Friedman (8:30)

Gosh. I know, I know. Of course they have it figured out. We don't, we don't even have healthcare. But they, they go into. And because it's funded by the nhs, they have all this incredible research because tax dollars are going towards this Service. And like 97, don't quote me on this, 97% of people feel more emotionally connected to each other after leaving one of these sessions. It helps with comprehension, it makes people feel less alone in the world. And then I was like, wait, it is kind of crazy that adults don't read aloud to each other or read aloud, period. If you're a parent, you might read aloud to your kid. Certainly. It's so innate to how we are raised and how we operate in school. And then when you get to maybe like your early 20s or mid-20s, you just stop reading aloud and it becomes a solitary act. And so I got really excited about this idea of like, what if we did reading retreats, but we actually read the book aloud to each other. And I've always been a big restaurant and wine person, so doing the book themed dinners and wine and those elements were always part of the like, very first idea. So that all happened before COVID I was super excited about doing it. And then Covid. And so I was like, okay, not the time to get 15 strangers to go in a house together. So for literally four, almost five years, I just like took notes in my phone, in my notes app, someone would bring something up about the literary world or a fun name for something. And it was honestly one of those things that I kind of always thought would just live in the notes app. And then the summer of 2023, I left my agency job in anticipation of getting a client side job that ultimately fell through. And so I took a few months, spent some time with my family over the summer and I was like, okay, do I want to go back to agency? Another agency gig? Do I want to try something else? And I was like, if there's ever a moment in time to give this idea a go, it's now. And booktok had already blown up by that point over, you know, Covid. And so it was like end of 2023, I decided to start working on it. Launched the brand last March on Instagram and all those things. Had the first retreat in April. And now this past weekend, we just hosted our 17th retreat.

Sam (10:36)

Wow, that's so amazing.

Mikey Friedman (10:38)

Yeah.

Tracy Thomas (10:38)

Okay, you've sort of glossed over this part. But to me, when I'm watching on.

Sam (10:43)

The Internet, because I watch all the retreats on social media, like a real stalker.

Mikey Friedman (10:47)

Thank you.

Tracy Thomas (10:48)

I've seen a lot of reading retreats. I have never once in my life wanted to go on a reading retreat. I famously also have never once wanted.

Sam (10:55)

To join a book club. The only. I've been part of two book clubs.

Tracy Thomas (10:58)

In my entire life.

Sam (10:59)

One is the Stacks Book Club, of which I am in charge and have ultimate control over what books we pick. Right. Like, it's like the most dictatorship style book club ever.

Tracy Thomas (11:10)

I also do have to read all.

Sam (11:12)

Of the books to be fair, but it's the only book club I've ever been a part of. And the other one is one of my best friends from New York. So Sam, who did the show years.

Tracy Thomas (11:19)

And years ago, he and I had a book club.

Sam (11:22)

It was just the two of us. And we would agree to read a book only when we wanted to and then meet at Chipotle in New York City to discuss. It was totally. It was again, very like, we're only doing it if we both want to read it. There was no, you know, deviled eggs. There was no, like, random person who never read. Like, it was like, once we'd finished, we'd be like, okay, we've both finished. I'll see you on Wednesday at Chipotle in midtown. We're so.

Tracy Thomas (11:47)

I've never wanted to be part of a book club. I've never wanted to do a reading retreat.

Sam (11:51)

They always look horrible to me. No offense to people who make them. They just.

Tracy Thomas (11:55)

It's just not my vibe. Like, it just looks like I don't want to be there. But one of the things that your.

Sam (12:00)

Retreat has, besides amazing locations that are like, so picturesque, is the food and the wine situation. So can you just explain to people? Because I think I wasn't sure about you. Then I saw the food and wine and I was like, sign me up.

Mikey Friedman (12:18)

Absolutely. It's a very. I'm the kind of person who like, really sweats the details when I go to an event or like, really pay attention to all the details.

Sam (12:25)

Yeah.

Mikey Friedman (12:26)

So I just built the type of weekend experience that I would want to have. And so for food and food and beverage, there's always a featured guest chef on every retreat, and we partner with them in advance to curate custom dinner menus that are themed to the book that we're reading. So we take quotes from the book where maybe they mention a meatball sub or a head of lettuce, and we turn those into creations on the plate. And we have two book themed dinners for the weekend retreats. And we also do curated wine pairing for the whole weekend. So we work with a featured wine partner, sometimes a cool sommelier in New York or someone who owns a wine shop in New York, and I partner with them to basically build the full wine program. There's usually like 12 different wines that we get to taste over the course of the weekend. We also have non alcoholic options. Really cool new space that I'm obsessed with now, but it's all very curated food and wine options. And it's so fun for me because I worked in catering in high school, but I've never worked in food service. But I've always idolized being in restaurants, and I could talk forever about that. But it's so fun for me to get to collaborate with chefs and be creative with them and Feel like I get to have my fingerprints on the menu a little bit. And the chefs absolutely love it because core to creativity, like, having structure enables you to be more creative. And so they love getting. Sometimes the chef reads the book in full, sometimes they don't because they don't have time. But I brief them in with, like, a whole document that has, here's this ingredient on page 16, here's the quote that goes with it. Whenever I read a book now, I'm tabbing every time there's a food reference or wine or anything so that I can go and produce this sort of, like, brief, and then I throw in some thought starters. But the chefs love it because they get to step outside of what they typically cook, but then also put their own unique flavors and imprint onto the food. So maybe there's a dish that's referenced, that's Italian dish, like pasta dish, for example. But they're a Chinese American chef, and they. They do a riff on that dish that they would do at their restaurant or the way that they would cook it. And so it's always so fun for me to see the fusion of that, the inspiration from the author in the book, and then also the chef's own inspiration and how those things sort of fuse on the plate.

Sam (14:40)

It's so cool.

Tracy Thomas (14:42)

Okay, let's talk about the books you.

Sam (14:44)

Read for page break.

Mikey Friedman (14:46)

Okay.

Tracy Thomas (14:46)

There are some rules or there's some guidelines, and then there's also one major rule, because you've got to read the whole book mostly out loud. It's like 70%. You read out loud?

Mikey Friedman (14:58)

Yeah. 80. This. Yes. Last retreat, we just had one session where we read on our own independently.

Tracy Thomas (15:02)

So sometimes, like during the retreat, you're.

Sam (15:04)

Like, okay, sick of you guys. Go to your rooms. 50 pages.

Mikey Friedman (15:08)

I usually do it first thing on Saturday morning. So we arrive on Friday, Saturday morning, like, people are still kind of waking up. We have, like, a short amount of pages to read, like 30 pages. And I do that so that by that time, we're already settled into it. But it's also just nice to get some, like, alone time with the book and the author, just so you can kind of, like, digest it in your own way.

Sam (15:26)

Yeah.

Mikey Friedman (15:27)

But yeah, beyond that, we read the entire book cover to cover. No homework. I have a strict no homework policy. I'll never read a book on page break where I have to assign reading in advance, which makes it hard. Right. Like, Sometimes there's a 350 page book that I would love to read on page break, but it's just not going to be a good experience because that's your main rule.

Tracy Thomas (15:45)

It's got to be under 300, right?

Mikey Friedman (15:46)

Yeah, yeah. Not all pages are created equal, I've learned. But yeah, something around there.

Tracy Thomas (15:51)

And then what else are you prioritizing with the books? How are you deciding? What are you looking at?

Mikey Friedman (15:56)

Yeah, prioritizing debut authors, queer authors, diverse authors, underrepresented authors. It's fun to work with or feature authors that are based in New York because I also do a lot of local programming in the city. And so it's fun to feel like they can be like part of the community with us and come to reunion events that I throw or my reading series, which we could. I could tell you more about too. And it's also good, like I always invite the authors to do a Q and A with us at the retreat. I'm proud to say so far I'm 17 for 17 on author participation, which is so fun. They don't always come in person if they're not available or in town, but sometimes we'll do zoom. So it's fun to work with like, yeah, up and coming New York based authors that might want to come and hang out with us. So this past weekend and they're new books.

Sam (16:44)

It's all new books.

Mikey Friedman (16:45)

Oh yeah, all new books. Contemporary literary fiction. Should have probably said that first. That's like the sweet spot. I purposely choose a fiction because I don't. I know you're a big non nonfiction girl.

Tracy Thomas (16:56)

I am.

Sam (16:57)

So watch what you say.

Mikey Friedman (16:58)

But I think my main thing with Page Break is I like that everyone comes in on like equal plane of like not knowing that much about the book. And I haven't. They haven't read it yet. So that's one of the reasons I choose new books. And it's also one of the reasons I choose fiction because if we choose something that's maybe more subject based or topical, I think some people might be able to be like, well, I actually studied this and this sort of like gives a little bit and you get.

Sam (17:20)

Assholes and nobody wants an asshole on a reading routine.

Mikey Friedman (17:23)

Exactly. Like everyone knows nothing except for me because I've read it and that creates a good vibe. And I also think contemporary literary fiction just gives a lot of entry points for empathy and for like seeing yourself in the characters. Any novel I think can do that if it's written well, certainly like historical or other genre work, but things that are maybe set in a city or deal with friendship dynamics or creation of art in a. In the modern day. World or romance or whatever it is like, I think that gives you a lot of ways to empathize. And one of the beautiful parts about Page Break is because we're pausing and discussing as we go, people really open up. And the social science that I talked about earlier a little bit. The main benefit of reading aloud together is vulnerability. It's this small act of vulnerability that lets you feel like you can trust the other people in the circle, even if you've never. Even if you don't remember their name yet, because you just met a few hours ago. Just by them hearing your voice and you hearing their voice and knowing that it's like that little bit of performance just makes you feel safer once you do it. So then people feel really comfortable opening up about past exes or stuff with their family or whatever it might be. And so it has this almost like deeper community reading of a topic that invites more interesting conversation in.

Tracy Thomas (18:41)

I'm going to ask a question for people at home listening who are maybe interested in going on a retreat but are scared to read aloud.

Mikey Friedman (18:47)

Yes.

Tracy Thomas (18:48)

How long do you have to read out loud?

Mikey Friedman (18:51)

Yep. So there's usually 15 or 16 people. So it's a pretty intimate circle. We go around the circle and read two pages at a time, the left side and the right side. And then we turn the page, we trade. You know, it goes on to the next person. I will also say this is the first rule of Page break that I always set up every retreat with is everything is optional. So the entire retreat, if you want to skip a session to call your mother or take a nap, like, this is your week. I would say, this is your weekend.

Sam (19:18)

Got it.

Mikey Friedman (19:18)

You're paying to be here. So it's definitely. It's important to me to make it not feel like school. I think when people hear, like, reading aloud together, they're like, oh, like, I got called on by the teacher, and now I'm, like, embarrassed. But I do everything in my power to not have it feel that way. And reading aloud is part of that is also optional. So if it gets to you, you could just say, pass. I've had people come and be like, I'm not going to read aloud at first and then change their mind.

Sam (19:42)

They want to midway.

Mikey Friedman (19:43)

And I've had the opposite. I've had people, like, read aloud at first and be like, okay, I tried it. That was fun. But I'm just going to listen. And we're all following along with our own copies in our own, you know, in our hands.

Tracy Thomas (19:53)

Do you read aloud to Yourself at home?

Mikey Friedman (19:57)

No, no.

Tracy Thomas (19:59)

I'm a big proponent of reading out loud.

Mikey Friedman (20:01)

I should be.

Sam (20:02)

I'm a reading lover.

Mikey Friedman (20:04)

That would be good for my brand. I probably should be sometimes, if it's like. So I. I host a reading series called Stage Break. Those are short stories that sometimes, like, when I'm trying to divide up, like, the pages on the program that I design, I'll, like, read it out loud to find natural stopping points. Or occasionally, if occasionally. But no, not really. I should do it more well.

Tracy Thomas (20:26)

Okay. So I have a background in the theater, and I love Shakespeare, and I just taught my first ever Shakespeare class. It ended in October. It was amazing. But, like, my first rule of Shakespeare is read it out loud. It is transformative to read it out loud, and I deeply believe that. And when I'm reading a book, like, we just read Frankenstein last month for book club, and the text is sort of dense. And at the beginning, I was really struggling, and I was like, I cannot get into this. And I was like, oh, I know what to do.

Sam (20:58)

Read it out loud.

Tracy Thomas (21:00)

And I read the first, like, 30.

Sam (21:01)

Pages out loud to myself in my home. Like, fully out loud. Not. Not like Whisperer, but, like, I fully was like. And then he went to the store.

Tracy Thomas (21:10)

And it is transformative to me. I feel like people are not reading.

Sam (21:17)

Out loud to themselves enough in the world.

Tracy Thomas (21:20)

I think I got more into it also because I have small kids, and so I read out loud to them.

Mikey Friedman (21:24)

Totally.

Tracy Thomas (21:24)

Watching them listen, it makes me listen to the stories more. If I were reading it on, the.

Sam (21:30)

Pages should be like, oh, the dog.

Tracy Thomas (21:32)

Went to the store.

Sam (21:32)

The dog. The dog did that. But when you have to be like, the dog went to the store and got a bone.

Mikey Friedman (21:38)

Exactly. It forces you to slow down, which I think is like, we're often skimming when we don't mean to. And it also makes you really appreciate the rhythm of the sentences and how they fit together, which that's, I think, one of the strengths of a lot of writers that I really love. Like, how the different sentences flow into each other. It has, like, a nice rhythm to it, which you don't always get when you're just scanning with your eyes. And I always read the book in advance, quietly, you know, not allowed. And then we go on the retreat, we read the. I read the same book aloud again, and I'm like, I missed, like, so much detail in this book. It's, like, kind of freaking me out. I, like, completely miss this whole character dynamic or whatever it is. And on page break, you have 15 different audiobook narrators sitting in a circle with you, basically. And the other thing about the experience from, like, a comprehension standpoint is it's unlike an audiobook only, and it's not like reading only. It's actually the two together. So, like, you're getting the audio right sense, you know, sense you're listening, but you're also following along in your own copy. So it just creates this really rich, like, close reading of the book. And authors, when they come on page break, we do the Q and A usually after we finish the book. And there are multiple authors, always are like, wow, you guys, like, really read the book. Like, you know, they were like, yeah, you were. You were in it. Like, you're asking me questions that I haven't even, like, considered because of, like, the level of depth that we're really getting into the pages and, like, the way things are phrased and like the minute, minute details that you don't get when you just do it on your own.

Sam (23:06)

Yeah. Yeah.

Tracy Thomas (23:07)

I love it.

Sam (23:08)

I'm, I'm.

Tracy Thomas (23:09)

I'm a fan of what you do.

Sam (23:10)

Thank you.

Tracy Thomas (23:11)

I'm a fan of the food. I'm a fan of the reading out loud. And, you know, we connected through Aira very early on. I think maybe you'd only done one retreat. And we, like, got on a zoom and we chatted, and then we chatted again another time. And I met you in New York in person. And we sort of have been like, floating this idea of doing a retreat.

Sam (23:31)

And I've been like, I want to do this badly.

Mikey Friedman (23:33)

Yeah.

Tracy Thomas (23:34)

So we're going to do it.

Mikey Friedman (23:35)

We're doing it.

Sam (23:36)

Stacks break, January. We're doing a stacks break in January.

Tracy Thomas (23:40)

Should we tell them where we're going? Your first ever non New York.

Sam (23:45)

Because I'm a bitch and I said, it's got to be California.

Mikey Friedman (23:48)

No, this is, like, so bucket list for me. So all 17 retreats have been New York based in New York State, in the Hudson Valley and Catskills and in the city. So for the first ever non New York trip, we're going to Joshua Tree.

Sam (24:00)

Where I've never been.

Mikey Friedman (24:02)

Oh, really? Me neither.

Tracy Thomas (24:03)

I've been to Palm Springs.

Sam (24:04)

I've never actually been to Joshua Tree.

Mikey Friedman (24:05)

A special collaboration retreat with Tracy Thomas from the Stacks. We're co curating, co hosting the weekend together. It's gonna be so major.

Sam (24:12)

So we're giving you guys the scoop. We. We. We haven't picked our book yet.

Mikey Friedman (24:15)

Right.

Tracy Thomas (24:16)

We're not telling you any details yet.

Sam (24:17)

That is coming later.

Tracy Thomas (24:19)

In November. But if you want to do this, there's only like 15 spots. So just mark your calendar for late January, put some funds aside.

Sam (24:31)

It's gonna be really good. I'm so excited. Like, truly, I've never been. Like I said, I don't want to go on a reading retreat. I don't want to be in a book club. And yet here I am, like, so gassed up about this one.

Mikey Friedman (24:45)

Joshua Tree is like the perfect kind of, like, people so often say, like, going on page break is. Feels sort of like summer camp. Like, it has this sort of like magical, like, joyful energy to it. And I feel like Joshua Tree has that kind of like inherent, mystical desert vibe. And it's just gonna be so fun to be out there and like. Yeah.

Tracy Thomas (25:02)

And it's. I mean, we do cold at night.

Sam (25:04)

In Joshua Tree, but then it's like warm in the daytime. I'm like, it's gonna be perfect.

Mikey Friedman (25:08)

And I mean, we. We do this on every retreat. We usually do, like, yoga and maybe, you know, a hike in the woods in New York state. But what an amazing backdrop. A Joshua retreat for us to explore and do all the fun.

Sam (25:19)

Who leads the yoga?

Mikey Friedman (25:21)

Either a local instructor from upstate or sometimes. This past weekend, I had a guest who's a friend, a friend of a friend who came on the retreat, and he's also yoga instructor. So I just had him lead us, which is so fun.

Sam (25:33)

I love it. Okay, okay. Before we move off page break, because we've got to get to your taste.

Tracy Thomas (25:39)

In books and everything. This is just a hypothetical. If you could have your dream page break anywhere in the world, any book, any chef, any, like, you get to decide what would you create. And you don't even have to stick to a new book. It could be like an older thing that, you know, like, you know, you can have a little latitude because you might, you know, you know.

Mikey Friedman (26:05)

Yeah. Well, I've certainly always fantasized about doing like, a destination page break, which is kind of what we're doing for what we're doing.

Tracy Thomas (26:13)

Yeah.

Mikey Friedman (26:13)

But the real fantasy is, and this will hopefully happen one day, but like, doing page break trip, like, travel company type trips. So.

Sam (26:22)

Got it.

Mikey Friedman (26:22)

We would go to Rome, let's say, for six nights, and it would be a comparative literature experience. So we'd go to Rome, we'd read a book set in Rome in 1929 and discuss it together. We'd eat at amazing restaurants in Rome and have the chefs do the book themed dinners and like, move our way through Rome. Reading A book. And then the second half of the trip, we'd read. We'd stay in Rome, but we read a book set in like 2024, also set in Roman. We sort of like talk about the difference of place and difference of time and, like do comparative literature on the go, which I think is like, such a cool idea. Yeah, Obviously it's like a lot more complicated logistically, but.

Sam (26:59)

Okay. That'll be our next tax break.

Tracy Thomas (27:01)

The wrong. Yeah, I want to do Paris, though, for mine.

Mikey Friedman (27:05)

Okay. All right. I'm going to Paris today, though.

Tracy Thomas (27:07)

I do anyway. Honestly, I'll go wherever you want me to go.

Sam (27:10)

Okay. Yeah, I'm along for the ride.

Mikey Friedman (27:12)

But yeah, that's like. That's a definitely the fantasy plan eventually. And like, I also want to do one that is in like ski mountain. And we can read some kind of like, mystery murder ski mountain thing. And I still haven't done a beach one because honestly, it's hard to get beach venues in summer because, yeah, it's like peak season everywhere, but that's gonna happen. We'll read like a steamy beach read.

Tracy Thomas (27:36)

Well, if you come back to California.

Sam (27:38)

You could do beach like in October.

Tracy Thomas (27:39)

Because it's literally going to be 90 degrees here tomorrow and we're recording this on October. It's gonna be 90 degrees here today.

Sam (27:45)

We're recording October 28th. It's going to be 90 degrees all weekend. So you could do beach. Beach, October. Good to know we're having a 90 degree Halloween, people. It's gonna be awesome. We love that change.

Mikey Friedman (28:02)

I'm a four season. I need all four seasons.

Sam (28:05)

Oh, yeah. I've never heard of a season except for when I lived in New York. And even then I was like, well.

Tracy Thomas (28:11)

Okay, we're gonna take a quick break. We're gonna come back, we're gonna talk even more about books. There's a lot to be thankful for this time of year. Spending time with family and friends, eating delicious home cooked meals, getting the chance to slow down. Personally, I'm thankful I get paid to do what I love most, which is read. But when I started the stacks, I quickly learned there was a lot more to having my own business than just reading books. So I needed a tool that would allow me to spend less time sorting through logistics and more time turning those pages. That's why I want to introduce you to Shopify. Shopify is an e commerce platform that powers millions of businesses across the U.S. this is an all in one tool which has everything you need to build your business and help it run smoothly, including inventory management, payment processing, and even built in sales and marketing tools. Just use one of the hundreds of ready to go templates to build your online store and you're all set. If you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. Turn your big business idea into with Shopify Shopify on your side. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com the stacks go to shopify.com the stacks shopify.com the stacks and just like that, it is giving season every week. I look forward to giving you guys an opportunity to immerse yourself in books and all things reading. And if you love listening to the Stacks as much as I love creating it for you, consider supporting us on Patreon and Substack too. On Patreon you can join Stacks Community, the Stacks Pack. We've got book club meetups, a private discord, and a year long mega reading challenge to help you push your reading goals. Plus, members get exclusive bonus episodes every month and sometimes they even get two over on Substack. You can subscribe to my newsletter Unstacked, where you will get those bonus episodes and where I keep the bookish conversations going along with a healthy dose of pop culture roundups and and a few hot takes. There's a free option as well to get a little dose of the Stacks magic. Making this podcast is a team effort and by supporting my Patreon and Substack you allow me to support my crew. So if you're looking to meet other book lovers and support this indie podcast, come hang out with me on Patreon, Substack or both. I would love to have you head to patreon.com the stacks to join the stacks pack and Tracy Thomas substack.com for unstacked.

Sleep Number Narrator (30:41)

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Tracy Thomas (31:28)

Okay, we're back. Before we get to your tasting books, we're going to do something we call Ask the Stacks where someone has emailed asking for a book recommendation. I'm going to read you their email. I'm going to give them three recommendations. You can give them 1, 2, 3. And for people at home, I am desperate for more Ask the Stacks emails. So if you write to Ask the Stacks atthestacks podcast.com Tell us what you're looking for. We'll read your emails on air. So this one comes from Lauren and it says love the pod. Obviously had to include that because I'm a psycho.

Mikey Friedman (31:59)

Obviously.

Tracy Thomas (32:01)

I was really inspired by the site specific reading you did for your trip to Germany last summer. And I took up the practice for a trip I did last fall and loved it. So fun. Thank you. I am seeking recommendations for books that are set in specific places and related to its history or culture, fiction or non fiction. Recs are welcome. The only genre I don't vibe with is true crime, obviously. I saved this one for you.

Sam (32:28)

Do you want to go first or.

Tracy Thomas (32:30)

Would you like me to go first and then you can think for a second?

Mikey Friedman (32:33)

You go first, I'll think for a second.

Tracy Thomas (32:35)

Okay. So I picked three different site specific places in the United States. The first one is There There by Tommy Orange. It is about my hometown of Oakland, California and it's about the indigenous community. They're preparing for a powwow and it's about a few different people.

Sam (32:54)

It's like a interconnected, you know, multi perspective book.

Tracy Thomas (32:58)

And I love it because I love Oakland and I love seeing Oakland in.

Sam (33:01)

This way and it felt this book is so Oakland. So there, there's one.

Tracy Thomas (33:07)

Another one that I picked is called the Barn by Wright Thompson. And this is borderline true crime, Lauren. But I'm gonna say it's not true crime. It is about the murder of Emmett Till. And Wright Thompson is from Mississippi, from the area where this happened. And he takes the barn where Emmett Till was killed and he sort of like goes out and out and out and out around the place. The people he tells, the history of the land, the history of Emmett Till's family, the history of the family of the people who killed him. And it's so beautiful and it really takes place like desperately seriously. So if you are interested in like getting into a place, this is one.

Sam (33:50)

Of the most place based books I've ever read.

Tracy Thomas (33:54)

And then the last one is one of my favorite Books this year. I keep being like, this is not the best book, but it's my favorite book or one of my favorite books. But the more I think about it.

Sam (34:04)

The more I just love it.

Tracy Thomas (34:05)

It's called the Gods of New York. It's by Jonathan mailer. It's about 1986 to 1990 in New York City. It's about Donald Trump, Rudy Giuliani, Spike Lee, Ed Koch. Like, I think the subtitle is like Egotists and Scammers and it's all about New York City in this moment. It's written almost like a tabloid. It's so he's sort of. He's not judgy, but he's really got.

Sam (34:29)

A point of view about everybody.

Tracy Thomas (34:31)

I frickin love this book. It talks about all the New York.

Sam (34:34)

Years, New York things. It makes New York City in 2025 make more sense. It makes Donald Trump in 2025 make more sense.

Tracy Thomas (34:41)

It's just a wild ride. It is so much fun.

Sam (34:44)

If you're going to New York, you should read this book because, like, you'll.

Tracy Thomas (34:48)

Have a better time in New York. So those are my three wrecks. Mikey, what do you got?

Mikey Friedman (34:54)

I know I was trying to think of things that are in New York based because I was like, I don't know. That doesn't feel like a specific enough place because that's like my whole universe. But we read there are reasons for this by Nini burnt on one of our retreats from Tin House. And it's set in Denver in the not so distant future. So, Lauren, if you like, like sort of slightly dystopian climate fiction, a little bit very. We. We devoured the book. It's. I think it's really underrated and it gives an interesting look at Denver in the future. Kind of.

Tracy Thomas (35:27)

I love that.

Mikey Friedman (35:28)

A little depressing maybe, but I love that.

Tracy Thomas (35:30)

Did you read Tilt?

Mikey Friedman (35:31)

No.

Tracy Thomas (35:32)

It's also climate fiction set in Portland, I think. I haven't read it yet. It's teeny tiny, though.

Sam (35:37)

It would actually probably be a good book.

Mikey Friedman (35:38)

Yeah, I've actually never been to Portland. Isn't that crazy?

Tracy Thomas (35:41)

It's a teeny tiny.

Mikey Friedman (35:42)

Oh yeah, I recognize the COVID Nice.

Sam (35:45)

Anyways, maybe retail also, Lauren. I don't know for sure.

Tracy Thomas (35:50)

All right, Lauren, if you read any of those books, let us know. Everyone else, please, please, please email Ask the Stacks at the stacks podcast.com for your question so we can recommend books to you. All right, now it's your turn, Mike. You're in the hot seat. Two books. You Love one book. You hate books.

Mikey Friedman (36:06)

I love one book that always has a special place in my heart because it's the first book that we did a. A test page break with before I even launched. Just like with me and a few of my friends sitting in the living room. Open Throat by Henry Hoak. A very slim book about a queer mountain lion that lives in la. Inspired by the true story of the mountain lion that was like hanging out in LA.

Tracy Thomas (36:30)

P22.

Mikey Friedman (36:31)

Yes, thank you. P22.

Sam (36:34)

You're in LA.

Mikey Friedman (36:34)

Well, I think earlier, I think earlier when I was describing the book, I called him the 95.

Sam (36:41)

The Mask.

Mikey Friedman (36:43)

The Mask, which is actually not.

Tracy Thomas (36:44)

Yeah, my library card has that mountain lion on it because when he died the LA public library released special edition library cards.

Sam (36:52)

And I went back and I was like turning in this basic ass card to get my. Yeah, 22.

Mikey Friedman (36:59)

It's brilliant. It's such a distinct voice. I also love when authors play with forum on the page and it's like really creatively done. And Henry Ho's coming out with a.

Sam (37:06)

New book I think next year at fsg.

Tracy Thomas (37:08)

Again with. With Jackson?

Mikey Friedman (37:09)

Yeah, I think so. Jackson.

Tracy Thomas (37:11)

His name is Jackson Howard and he's up and coming.

Sam (37:13)

He's like this young editor at FSG and he is just like killer, killer.

Mikey Friedman (37:19)

Every single title he puts out I try to read or I absolutely love.

Tracy Thomas (37:22)

It's. It's an unreal. Okay, what's another book you love?

Mikey Friedman (37:26)

How to Write an Autobiographical Novel by Alexander Chee.

Sam (37:29)

We've done that here for a book club.

Mikey Friedman (37:31)

I love that book. I've been handing it out to friends recently. Just like my friends come to my apartment and just like grab books from my stacks because I have so many and it's been making its circle, making its way around my circles and everyone is reminding me through their review how amazing that book is. And like, yeah, she is an amazing writer. And a book that I hate. Harry Potter.

Tracy Thomas (37:54)

Woo hoo.

Sam (37:55)

We love to hear it. I've never read it.

Tracy Thomas (37:57)

I've never read a single Harry Potter.

Mikey Friedman (37:59)

Oh good. I'm talking. Yeah, that gross turf witch.

Tracy Thomas (38:04)

Yeah.

Mikey Friedman (38:04)

Off.

Tracy Thomas (38:05)

I feel like we need someone to write the like fan or like anti fan fiction about her. Like that she is the evil witch at the center of like.

Sam (38:20)

I don't know anything about Harry Potter. So like a wizard?

Mikey Friedman (38:22)

No, same witch.

Sam (38:23)

Do wizards have witches?

Tracy Thomas (38:25)

Are wizards witches?

Mikey Friedman (38:26)

I don't know. Fantasy is not my bag. I mean like that was like I never like Harry Potter just in general because that's like not my thing. And then, of course, just her politics make it even easier to not like.

Tracy Thomas (38:38)

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Good writers out there. You have to be really good. I want, like, the best takedown fan.

Sam (38:46)

Anti fanfic of the Wizard Witch of the West.

Tracy Thomas (38:51)

Okay. What about. What kind of reader are you? Like, how much are you reading? Are you reading every day or are you sitting down in one day and, like, just knocking out a book and then not reading again for a week?

Mikey Friedman (39:03)

I. I'm reading mostly every day and I do almost all my reading on the subway.

Tracy Thomas (39:09)

Okay.

Mikey Friedman (39:10)

Physical book, audiobook, physical book, ideally paperback arc. I basically read arcs now that dominate my reading schedule because I'm always looking for my next retreat pick, which is fun. I wish I had more time to read things that have been on my. I mean, everyone has that feeling, but more things that are, like, on my TBR forever. But I also. I don't know, I like having the new thing. I can admit that.

Tracy Thomas (39:31)

Yeah.

Mikey Friedman (39:32)

And so, yeah, ideally, paperback arc on the subway makes it easy to just, like, throw in my bag. And I have Kindle for netgalley and stuff if I need to, like. If I, like, really want to check a book out. And I don't have the physical copy yet. And I don't. I rarely do audiobooks, but sometimes I will do, like, tandem reading either at the same time or I'll, like, trade off. Like, I'll, you know, start with reading it and then I'll pick it up with audiobook and then go back.

Tracy Thomas (39:58)

Okay, what's the last. Just, like. Absolutely. Great book you've read.

Mikey Friedman (40:05)

Audition by Katie Kitamura.

Sam (40:08)

Okay.

Mikey Friedman (40:08)

That book's a banger.

Tracy Thomas (40:10)

I need to read it. I've been putting off reading it. I didn't think I was going to read it, and now I'm just feeling like I'm missing out on something.

Mikey Friedman (40:16)

Yeah. Now I need to read intimacies. I haven't read that yet.

Tracy Thomas (40:19)

I do have that one. I've not read it. I've never read anything by her.

Mikey Friedman (40:23)

I think Audition is so brilliant because it takes a really simple idea and its execution is, like, so it's like, moving. It's like. It really makes you feel about it. You're in, like, a scene of a horror movie. Almost like the anticipation of what's about to happen is really intense. But the idea on its surface is quite simple. Just, like, how do we perform for each other and, like, the different roles that we play.

Sam (40:46)

I need to read it. I gotta do it. Okay. I gotta bite the bullet.

Mikey Friedman (40:49)

She's so chic. Too. I love her.

Tracy Thomas (40:51)

Yes.

Sam (40:52)

She's so. She got, like, dragged because she said she used, like, really expensive, like, lip gloss.

Mikey Friedman (40:57)

Oh.

Sam (40:57)

Like, not relatable.

Mikey Friedman (40:59)

Okay.

Sam (40:59)

We need fancy, unrelatable.

Mikey Friedman (41:02)

I'm like, it's working. Go.

Tracy Thomas (41:04)

It's working. She's like, yes. Chic is in.

Sam (41:09)

As I say, in my frumpy shacket.

Mikey Friedman (41:11)

Yeah.

Sam (41:12)

And my sweatshirt. T shirt. So.

Mikey Friedman (41:15)

So Chic is in.

Sam (41:17)

She is so in.

Tracy Thomas (41:18)

What about. What are you reading right now? And do you read multiple books at a time?

Mikey Friedman (41:23)

I do. I actually, I. I do not. I like, have no qualms about not finishing books.

Tracy Thomas (41:28)

Okay.

Mikey Friedman (41:29)

So I'm usually like, Sam, super sampling, like two or three books at a time. Usually a two. And kind of going back and forth and seeing how I feel and getting to like, you know, fit 50 to 70 pages into a book before I decide if I'm going to finish it.

Tracy Thomas (41:43)

Yeah.

Mikey Friedman (41:44)

Right now I'm reading Eradication by Jonathan Miles, which is an arc potentially for our January dream.

Sam (41:52)

Okay. I don't even know about this, so I'm excited.

Mikey Friedman (41:54)

The concept is interesting.

Sam (41:57)

Okay.

Mikey Friedman (41:57)

A man sent to a desert island to eradicate invasive species of goats. Ooh.

Sam (42:03)

Okay. Weird.

Mikey Friedman (42:05)

Eerie. Yeah, it seems really eerie and interesting. And then I'm also trying. I've like, little chapters of Love in Exile by Shawn Fay, which is another.

Sam (42:14)

Oh, okay. Another Jackson.

Mikey Friedman (42:16)

Yeah. Okay.

Tracy Thomas (42:18)

Okay.

Mikey Friedman (42:18)

Because I feel like I have a lot to learn about love and relationships and I hope this book will teach me.

Sam (42:24)

Okay. It's a self help moment.

Mikey Friedman (42:26)

It's a self help moment for me.

Sam (42:28)

Well, just like self help literary nonfiction.

Mikey Friedman (42:31)

I like, like books like that that are like essays or like little, like, short chapters, especially for nonfiction. I can just kind of like throw it in my bag, read on the train, whatever.

Tracy Thomas (42:40)

Yeah, yeah, totally. How do you pick your next book? Or like, where are you sourcing books from?

Mikey Friedman (42:46)

Yeah, I mean, it's a mix of publishers getting their catalogs and sort of like seeing what's coming out in the future. I stock, like, all the lists that are published. Like, there's like preview guides and things like that.

Sam (42:59)

Oh, yeah.

Mikey Friedman (43:00)

And then I'm on TikTok, which, like, is maybe not as. I honestly feel like I'm. I'm maybe the best resource for becoming art books because, like, I'm publishing retreat radar every three months where I like, publish like the 20 books that are coming out. But it's like, it's all. It's not from one direct source. It's all like different things, like, hobbled together and by best resource, I mean like for my type of books. Not for all types, but.

Sam (43:24)

Right, right, right.

Tracy Thomas (43:24)

Yeah, yeah. You know, I love, I love a preview list.

Sam (43:28)

I love, I love, like how do you do it?

Tracy Thomas (43:30)

I always look excited. I do the same thing as you. I get the catalogs from the publishers, I comb through all of them. If they send them to me, I comb through them.

Sam (43:37)

I prefer that than like the random.

Tracy Thomas (43:39)

Pitch emails because I just, some, some.

Sam (43:41)

Days I'm just like, I don't want to read this. I'm throwing it in a folder.

Mikey Friedman (43:43)

Yeah.

Sam (43:44)

Catalogs. I like sit down, I get my tea and I go through and I.

Tracy Thomas (43:47)

Add them to my spread. I have a spreadsheet and then you.

Sam (43:51)

Know, when the millions list comes out.

Tracy Thomas (43:52)

Or the lit hub list comes out or Aro Kwan used to write like a great list of women and non binary authors. Books coming out like for the following year. I look at the, what the New York Times is talking about. I'll listen to their pod, you know, like, and I'm also on Instagram.

Mikey Friedman (44:07)

Yeah, yeah.

Tracy Thomas (44:07)

And I'm constantly just like looking at things when books show up at my house.

Sam (44:11)

You know, I'm touching them, I'm looking at them, I'm thinking about them.

Mikey Friedman (44:14)

Yeah.

Tracy Thomas (44:15)

And then I make my own lists like that I publish on my sub stack every last Friday or like the.

Sam (44:22)

Last Friday before pub day, I go through and I write a roundup of.

Tracy Thomas (44:26)

Like, this is what's coming in the next month.

Mikey Friedman (44:27)

Yeah.

Tracy Thomas (44:28)

So here are the things I'm excited about. I try to keep it really short.

Sam (44:30)

And then I also will like highlight.

Tracy Thomas (44:32)

Anything that I've already started or read.

Sam (44:34)

Like being like, I'm excited about this and I've actually read into it, but.

Tracy Thomas (44:38)

There'S no rhyme or reason. And then sometimes I'm just like, I.

Sam (44:41)

Want to read this book.

Mikey Friedman (44:42)

Yeah, totally. So it's just like occurs to me, I'm like, oh, right. I'm. It's still, yeah. It's still kind of a mystery to me how I choose what to actually read next. Like I don't have a ranked list or anything. I'm just kind of like looking around my apartment, being like, maybe that is what I'll take with me. You know, it's like very intuitive in that way.

Tracy Thomas (44:59)

What? Okay, what's a book that you love to recommend to other people?

Mikey Friedman (45:03)

I think of Beauty Land by Marie Helene Bertino. I've never, I've yet to recommend that to someone who didn't text me like a month later and be like, I Absolutely love this book.

Tracy Thomas (45:13)

You haven't recommended it to me, thankfully.

Sam (45:14)

Because I won't like it.

Mikey Friedman (45:15)

Okay. Why do you say that?

Tracy Thomas (45:18)

I don't know.

Sam (45:19)

I've just heard too much about it. I think it's not for me. I think it's too slow for me.

Tracy Thomas (45:22)

I know the ending is. It has a good payoff, but I.

Sam (45:24)

Don'T think I'll be able to get.

Mikey Friedman (45:25)

Yeah, it's touching and creative and have you met me?

Sam (45:29)

Touching and creative to you?

Mikey Friedman (45:30)

I'm sorry.

Sleep Number Narrator (45:31)

Yeah.

Mikey Friedman (45:32)

Yeah.

Sam (45:33)

I mean, that's the thing about books.

Tracy Thomas (45:35)

Is like, especially for me. And I'm sure you feel this way, like when you read as much as I read. I'm just really good at like fine.

Sam (45:42)

Tuning my taste and sometimes I might.

Tracy Thomas (45:44)

Decide I'm not going to like something and then I end up reading it. And I do like it, but most the time I can tell before I go in and I've heard this book is amazing and a lot of people.

Sam (45:53)

I know that love it.

Tracy Thomas (45:55)

I just think it's too. Everything I've been told, it makes it sound like it's too slow for me and like to just like Vibes.

Mikey Friedman (46:02)

Yeah, that's fair.

Tracy Thomas (46:04)

But I've recommended it to people.

Sam (46:07)

Yeah, I like Vibes. And I'm like, oh, you might like Beauty Land, a book I've never read. Right.

Mikey Friedman (46:12)

It seems like you might like this. Yeah, that's like the art of the recommendation for sure. I mean, I'm doing that too. Totally. I haven't read this yet, but you might like it.

Tracy Thomas (46:21)

But you might like it. I do that all the time. Do you have a favorite bookstore?

Mikey Friedman (46:26)

The Bureau of General Services, Queer Division.

Sam (46:29)

What's that? I've never even heard.

Mikey Friedman (46:30)

Okay, so inside the center in the West Village, the LGBT center on the second floor, there's an all queer bookstore. We call it the Bureau. Full name Bureau of General Services Queer Division. And it's adorable. It's run by this couple. It's been in, in service of like 15 years and, or maybe even more. And they host community events and readings and every single book in the store is queer. And they also have a rotating art exhibit on the walls of the bureau that they like swap out every six months. And I'm actually a volunteer there because it's all volunteer run.

Sam (47:06)

Oh my God.

Mikey Friedman (47:06)

So I will occasionally. I know. Well, I'll occasionally pick up a random ship there. I went to a. I went to an author talk there and Greg, you know, co owner of the bureau, like gives a spiel and it's like, oh, by the way, we're a volunteer run bookstore, so if anyone in the audience wants to like, get involved and help out and pick up shifts, let us know. And I was, you know, just getting page break off the ground and I was like, what a great place to be hanging out in and like an amazing queer bookstore and like meeting people who come in and just like getting to spend time around books. So I've been volunting, volunteering there now for like over a year. Yeah, a year and a half. It's so fun.

Sam (47:39)

That's so cool.

Tracy Thomas (47:39)

I've literally never heard of this place.

Mikey Friedman (47:41)

Yeah, next time you're in New York, we'll go. They're so donors. They're so great. I love them. It's so fun to just like see people coming in from all parts of the world or from the city and just like having a safe space where they can explore all kinds of queer books. It's like fiction, nonfiction, art books, comics, poetry, everything done.

Sam (48:00)

New favorite bookstore. I love it.

Tracy Thomas (48:03)

Okay, what's the last book that you purchased?

Mikey Friedman (48:06)

Oh, I purchased Unfit by Ariana Harwich.

Tracy Thomas (48:10)

Is this the Parent? The book about being a disabled parent.

Mikey Friedman (48:13)

It's about the mom who like, steals the twin boys back from her husband and goes on like a crazy road trip. It's a translation.

Tracy Thomas (48:19)

This is a novel.

Sam (48:19)

Yes, sorry, there's.

Tracy Thomas (48:21)

I think there's a book called Unfit Parent that I think is about disability and parenting.

Mikey Friedman (48:25)

Okay. No, not that one. This is a translated novella. And actually I'm always looking for slim novellas to read on Daybreak because they also host the one day retreats in New York. So I've had good luck with translated fiction. We read Boulder by Eva Baltazar and Roleplay by Clara Drummond for.

Tracy Thomas (48:46)

Oh, my God. Have you read Hunchback yet?

Mikey Friedman (48:49)

No, I haven't. It's so short. It's almost too short.

Sam (48:52)

It's so good.

Mikey Friedman (48:54)

Okay, I'm gonna read it.

Sam (48:55)

Just read it. Even if you don't do it for Daybreak or anything, just read it. It is so good.

Mikey Friedman (49:01)

Okay, I'm gonna read it. Yeah, it's on my radar. It is very short and depressing.

Tracy Thomas (49:06)

It's fucked up.

Mikey Friedman (49:07)

Yeah, you love that.

Tracy Thomas (49:08)

I don't think it's depressing.

Sam (49:10)

I think it's like twisted, you know, like, it's like dark.

Mikey Friedman (49:13)

All right.

Sam (49:14)

Oh, I love that book.

Mikey Friedman (49:15)

But. And actually we just read Perfection by Vincenzo Letronico on our last.

Sam (49:19)

Oh, okay.

Mikey Friedman (49:21)

So I've done a lot of translated novellas now that I Think about it.

Tracy Thomas (49:24)

What's the last book that made you laugh?

Mikey Friedman (49:26)

Herculean. This past weekend, that was your Herculean by Grace Byron. Everyone absolutely loved it. Reading book, like, it's. It's a book about the demons that haunt us and trauma and being trans and like, it's horror. Using horror and the like, demonic devices as a way to sort of explore that. But Grace is so. It's like in. Also in a lot of. In the first part of the book. Like the like, Internet girl novel.

Tracy Thomas (49:55)

Yeah.

Mikey Friedman (49:55)

And it's so funny. Like Grace's observations about the art world or like the way that people move around New York and like, just like being able to read it in a group format. We were like, cackling, laughing.

Sam (50:07)

Yeah.

Mikey Friedman (50:07)

Which is just so. It's such a treat to get that from a book.

Tracy Thomas (50:11)

What's the last book where you felt like you learned a lot?

Mikey Friedman (50:14)

Oh, in college I read the Life and Death of Great American Cities by Jane Jacobs. That's like my brainiest book that I love because I think if I were to go back to school, it'd be for like, urban studies.

Sam (50:27)

Yeah.

Mikey Friedman (50:27)

And like how cities work. Have you read it?

Sam (50:29)

So you do like, nonfiction?

Mikey Friedman (50:31)

Yeah, I think I do. I need to. I need to look at your guide.

Tracy Thomas (50:34)

I know. We should. Maybe we should do non fiction for.

Sam (50:37)

Our thing, like essays, personal essays. No, no, no.

Tracy Thomas (50:39)

Okay.

Mikey Friedman (50:40)

I'm not ready to talk.

Tracy Thomas (50:41)

Okay, okay, okay. I'll wait. What about a book that brings you joy?

Mikey Friedman (50:50)

Joy?

Sam (50:52)

What's that? Sounds awful.

Mikey Friedman (50:58)

I mean, another funny book. We read Worry by Alexandra Tanner. Oh, it's very funny.

Tracy Thomas (51:03)

Okay.

Sam (51:04)

What about a book that you feel.

Tracy Thomas (51:06)

Proud to have read?

Mikey Friedman (51:09)

The Power Broker by Rob Turreau.

Sam (51:11)

You did it.

Mikey Friedman (51:12)

I did it.

Sam (51:13)

Wow. Another nonfiction.

Mikey Friedman (51:15)

Another nonfiction. I've never done it in college.

Tracy Thomas (51:19)

I can't do it.

Sam (51:19)

I don't think I can do it.

Mikey Friedman (51:21)

Yeah, you don't need to.

Tracy Thomas (51:23)

I feel like I need to. I'm really fiction person.

Sam (51:26)

I feel like I gotta, like, read it.

Mikey Friedman (51:28)

Yeah.

Tracy Thomas (51:28)

I read Executioner Song.

Sam (51:30)

That was the massive nonfiction that I.

Tracy Thomas (51:32)

Opted into a few years ago. I got a wrist injury from reading it.

Sam (51:36)

The book is so big and I was like, trying to read it in bed.

Mikey Friedman (51:39)

I love that.

Sam (51:40)

I was like on a trip and I was like, my wrist hurts.

Mikey Friedman (51:42)

Yeah. We need slim paperback. I'm into slim paperback. So you can like, put in your purse.

Sam (51:47)

Yeah.

Tracy Thomas (51:48)

You could read like, like eight page.

Sam (51:50)

Break books for one executioner, Song, one power broker.

Tracy Thomas (51:56)

Is there any book that's like, on.

Sam (51:58)

Your bookish Bucket list.

Tracy Thomas (51:59)

Like a book. You're just like, I gotta read this one.

Mikey Friedman (52:02)

It comes to mind because Limousine Podcast. You know those. The Limousine Podcast. Okay, let me plug the Limousine podcast. They're great. Heather. Heather and Leah Shout Out. They host a reading series in New York, and they have an amazing podcast as well. They did an Anna Karenina book club over the last. Like, you did that too. Okay, well, not.

Sam (52:23)

We did it as just like a regular book club pick, but I gave people two months to read it instead of one month.

Mikey Friedman (52:27)

Yeah. And honestly, I had no interest in reading it before getting. Getting glimpses of some of their episodes. Like, I stayed. Stick around for the whole episode. But, like, just hearing them talk about it, I'm like, okay, maybe I need to read that.

Tracy Thomas (52:38)

It's not bad. It's pretty good. It's pretty good.

Mikey Friedman (52:41)

But I'm so. I'm so bad at classics. I probably have, like, two. Like, two that I've read.

Tracy Thomas (52:48)

Okay. Can I plug a classic that I.

Sam (52:50)

Think you would love?

Mikey Friedman (52:51)

Please.

Sam (52:51)

Frankenstein. Frankenstein is a first of all. It's slim. It's like 200 pages.

Tracy Thomas (52:57)

It is a banger. Okay.

Sam (52:59)

I cannot stop thinking about it. I cannot stop talking about it.

Mikey Friedman (53:02)

I love.

Sam (53:03)

I loved Frankenstein.

Tracy Thomas (53:05)

I think you would love it. It's a sad boy novel. Yeah, it's a little gay. It's actually a little gay.

Mikey Friedman (53:11)

We love little. We love a sad. We have a sad little gay novel.

Sam (53:14)

Yeah, it's a sad little gay novel.

Tracy Thomas (53:17)

And it was written by a teenage girl.

Sam (53:18)

Do you know that Mary shelley was, like, 19 when she wrote it?

Tracy Thomas (53:22)

So it's also, like, a little bit.

Sam (53:23)

Like punk rock in some ways, because it's like a teenage girl being, like, emo girl.

Tracy Thomas (53:27)

Yeah, it's very emo.

Sam (53:29)

I kept texting friends, being like, is the monster just, like, the saddest sad boy ever? Like, is this just so, like, emo book? And everyone was like, it is. And I was like, okay.

Mikey Friedman (53:41)

Mary Shelley shopped at Hot Topic a thousand percent.

Tracy Thomas (53:46)

Like, the saddest girl. Anyways, I think you'd like it.

Mikey Friedman (53:50)

Okay.

Sam (53:51)

It'll save you 800 pages on Anna Karenina, and it's so. I think it's way better.

Mikey Friedman (53:56)

Okay. I love that. Well, we always. This is the second year I've done a spooky Halloween retreat, so maybe next October we'll do Frankenstein.

Tracy Thomas (54:04)

It's worth it.

Sam (54:05)

It is so worth it. I have two more questions for you. One is that if you were a.

Tracy Thomas (54:10)

High school teacher, what is the book you would assign in school?

Mikey Friedman (54:13)

I was gonna Say the ethical Slide.

Sam (54:16)

I love it.

Mikey Friedman (54:17)

Or Jane Jacobs. I think.

Tracy Thomas (54:19)

I don't know that.

Mikey Friedman (54:20)

The Life and Death of Great American Cities. No. It's so boring. That's not a good high school book. No, it might be. Ethical Slot.

Sam (54:26)

Ethical slut.

Mikey Friedman (54:27)

Yeah.

Tracy Thomas (54:28)

And then last one. If you could require the current president of the United States of America to read one book, what would it be?

Mikey Friedman (54:37)

I can't. I can't tell if I would. He would read this and hate it or love it, but I think Rejection by Tony. By Tony Tula. Mute.

Tracy Thomas (54:43)

Okay. He would read it and he would.

Sam (54:46)

Hopefully see himself a. Yeah.

Mikey Friedman (54:48)

The great. The great incel. Novel of our time.

Sam (54:51)

Yes, exactly.

Tracy Thomas (54:52)

Okay. I love it, everybody. Mikey will be back on Wednesday, November 26th. We are discussing we the Animals by Justin Torres.

Sam (55:01)

It is his debut novel.

Tracy Thomas (55:02)

It is super slim, party people.

Sam (55:04)

It is page break material. A teeny, tiny gay book set in upstate New York.

Mikey Friedman (55:11)

I'm so excited.

Tracy Thomas (55:12)

I'm so excited. You've never read any Justin Torres.

Mikey Friedman (55:15)

Never.

Sam (55:15)

Me neither.

Mikey Friedman (55:16)

It's like, I've always been like, oh, I need to read blackouts. I need to read Be the Animals. So.

Tracy Thomas (55:19)

Me too. And also not to be, like, not to objectify people.

Sam (55:24)

But Justin Torres is so hot.

Mikey Friedman (55:26)

Yes.

Sam (55:27)

Everybody, go ahead and Google Justin Torres. He is so hot.

Tracy Thomas (55:30)

I've met him, like, twice in person, and I think he's even made hotter because he's chic and he's one of those people with that, like, really warm, light energy where you meet them and.

Sam (55:40)

You'Re like, oh, you're a lovely human. Like, he just instantly you're like, oh, I can see goodness in your spirit.

Tracy Thomas (55:47)

Okay, we're out of here.

Mikey Friedman (55:49)

So fun.

Sam (55:50)

Thank you so much for being here. I'm so excited about everything you're doing. I'm excited that we're going to do something together. And I'm excited about reading we the Animals. So this is just.

Tracy Thomas (55:58)

It's all excitement.

Mikey Friedman (55:59)

Me too. I'm so glad we get to spend so much time together in the next few months. Yay.

Sam (56:03)

And everyone else, we will see you in the stacks.

Tracy Thomas (56:12)

All right, y', all, that does it for us today. Thank you so much for listening and thank you. Thank you again to Mikey Friedman for joining the podcast. Our book club pick for November is We the Animals by Justin Torres. And Mikey will be returning as our guest for that discussion on November 26th. If you love the Stacks and want inside access to it, head to patreon.com the stacks to join the stacks pack and check out my newsletter@tracy thomas.substack.com make sure you're subscribed to the Stacks wherever you get your podcasts, and if you're listening through Apple Podcasts or Spotify, please leave us a rating and a review. For more from the Stacks, you can follow us on social media at the Stacks Pod, on Instagram threads and TikTok. And now we're on YouTube and you can check out our website@thestaxpodcast.com this episode of the Stacks was edited by Christian Duenas with production assistance from Sahara Clement. Our graphic designer is Robin McRite, and our theme music is from Tagirages. The Stacks is created and produced by me, Tracy Thomas, Sam.