The Stacks – Episode 399: Narrative Dignity with Quiara Alegría Hudes
Host: Traci Thomas
Guest: Quiara Alegría Hudes, Pulitzer Prize-winning playwright and author
Date: November 19, 2025

Overview

This conversation dives deep into Quiara Alegría Hudes' new novel, The White Hot, exploring narrative forms, the complexities of female agency, and the power of honest storytelling. Hudes and Thomas discuss Hudes’ journey from playwrighting and memoir to novel-writing, drawing on influential books, music, and the realities of creating art about, for, and within her own community. The episode is rich with insights about creativity, narrative voice, and crafting stories of women who exist on the margins.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Origin and Core of The White Hot

• Premise: The novel centers on April Soto, who leaves her young daughter and later, on the daughter's 18th birthday, writes a letter explaining her actions. The letter forms the novel's bulk.

  • "You don’t have to forgive me. You don’t have to love me. You don’t have to even like me. But just hear me, because maybe you can learn a little bit from my experiences." (04:19, Quiara)

• Early Inspirations:

  • The seed was planted in high school, shaped by reading Siddhartha and questioning stories of men who leave their families for spiritual quests.
    • "Part of me was just like... I wish my mom and I wish my abuela... could go... stop doing the dishes right now and go find God. But they had domestic realities to tend to." (05:34, Quiara)

• Personal Reading History:

  • Hudes didn't fully connect with books until high school, when exposure to queer, Black, and Latinx writers transformed her understanding of the world and Philadelphia’s history.
    • "I could feel my consciousness opening, and my understanding of the nation I lived in and the city I lived in opening in really new ways." (07:36, Quiara)

From Stage to Page: Thoughts on Form and Audience

• Shift from Playwriting/Memoir:

  • Hudes relishes approaching the novel as a beginner at 48, carrying decades of creative muscle but enjoying the “naive sense of wonder.”
    • "It’s wonderful to be 48 and... to still have a very naive sense of wonder about that endeavor." (08:58, Quiara)

• Spirituality on the Stage vs. Page:

  • The novel allowed richer, more ambiguous depiction of spirituality than theater, sidestepping literal interpretation.
    • "On the page... what matters is how a character experienced what happened." (09:18, Quiara)

• Audience and Inclusion:

  • The accessibility of books vs. costly theater tickets meant a wider, more diverse reach. She reflects on the complexity (and limits) of telling Latinx stories to predominantly white audiences in theater.
    • "A book can be free if you go to the library... let my stories... see what other spaces my stories might fill, what other audiences I can find." (11:33, Quiara)

Playwriting vs. Novel Writing: Collaboration, Process, and Voice

• The “Dinner Table Scene”:

  • Inspired by iconic plays (e.g., August: Osage County), Hudes wrote her own messy, emotional family dinner, first as a play, originally for a failed musical based on Alanis Morissette’s Jagged Little Pill.
    • "This actually was a failed musical, this book... I realize me and the director are totally different visions, so I took my story and developed it in a different way." (17:22, Quiara)

• The Book’s Intimacy:

  • The letter format creates "extreme close up," a more intimate reader experience than a stage play.
    • "It really does feel like she is whispering right in Noelle’s ear." (20:23, Quiara)

• Musicality and Voice:

  • Trained as a musician, Hudes writes by ear, likening character voice to the improvisational style of Charles Mingus and referencing musical influences throughout the writing process.
    • "I think of voice as music... April’s voice got that Mingus thing: improvisational, wild and thorny and a little combative, spiky, luscious, but also yearning." (21:12, Quiara)

• Writing Habits and Ritual:

  • The book’s beginnings lay in scraps and notes gathered over years, culminating in an assembly process akin to forensics—plus plenty of fresh ginger tea.
    • "She just lived on napkins or on like, sheets of paper... It was scraps. And it was jagged." (25:05, Quiara)

Influences, Female Pariahs, and Literary Syllabus

• Books That Shaped the Novel:
  • A transformative reading year immersed Hudes in stories of "female pariahs": Frankenstein (Mary Shelley), Sula (Toni Morrison), The Autobiography of My Mother (Jamaica Kincaid), and Elena Ferrante’s work.
    • "I want to write a female pariah. I want to write an outcast. I want to write a woman who does something unforgivable and has the self-possession to own her life, even with that ‘sin’." (29:15, Quiara)

Frankenstein, Narrative Dignity, and Criminal Justice

• On Frankenstein:
  • Hudes passionately connects Frankenstein’s monster with April’s narrative, focusing on the plea "do not absolve me. Do not forgive me. Just listen to me."
    • "It's, to me, the most brilliant text we have on criminal justice... She's not interested in innocence. She's interested in narrative dignity." (34:21, Quiara)
  • April’s letter echoes the monster’s plea for understanding, not exoneration.

Female Pleasure, Rage, and “Unlikable” Women

• Writing Women’s Desire & Anger:
  • Inspired by the sensuality in Morrison’s Beloved, Hudes prioritized showing April experiencing authentic pleasure and rage.
    • "I wanted April to have... really good sex, have a great orgasm. So I kind of manipulated back from that point—who’s she going to meet? Who’s it going to be with?" (39:35, Quiara)
  • On “unlikable women” in literature: both host and guest celebrate novels centered on difficult, even “unforgivable,” women (Sula cited as a favorite).

Creativity, Success, and Artistic Freedom

• How Success and Age Changed Her Approach:
  • Hudes attributes artistic freedom more to age than career success.
    • "I have spent my life being the good girl. Like, I don't have time for that shit anymore. I want to be free as an artist." (41:31, Quiara)
  • Success in the world doesn’t always align with personal satisfaction in her art.
    • “Some of your best stuff will go totally unnoticed...” (42:39, Quiara, quoting Edward Albee)

Editing, Feedback, and the Solitude of Novel-Writing

• The Need to Protect Early Work:
  • Hudes is now “shy” about sharing early drafts, needing to like her own work before seeking outside input.
    • "The only reason I'll share a draft with someone early… is because I want someone to be like, I like it. Bad idea." (49:56, Quiara)
  • Positive editorial collaboration came only after she’d internally solidified her vision.

“Sister Branches” and Literary Resonance

• April’s Library Scene:
  • The novel features April seeking books about mothers who leave, leading to a “sister branches” list—stories that map the emotional and narrative territory of her own act.
    • "To know not only is she not alone, but these people have stories on library bookshelves. That's an important place to be." (54:23, Quiara)

Recommendations and Notable Mentioned Works

For readers seeking more in the vein of The White Hot, Hudes recommends:

• Frankenstein by Mary Shelley
• The Door by Magda Szabó
• Bad Girls by Camila Sosa Villada
• Forbidden Notebook by Alba de Céspedes
• The works of Elena Ferrante, Toni Morrison, and Jamaica Kincaid

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On gendered expectations and spiritual quests:

  • "We love when men leave in culture and stories... Like, Don Draper leaves his family, and, like, he's hot for it... So I was kind of digging a little deeper on that..." (27:04, Quiara)

• On the soul of voicey fiction:

  • "So for me, April's voice, it's got that Mingus thing where it's like improvisational, kind of wild and thorny and a little combative, spiky, luscious, but also yearning..." (21:53, Quiara)

• On narrative dignity:

  • "She's not interested in innocence. She's interested in narrative dignity. She's being honest about her flaws." (34:29, Quiara)

• On artistic freedom:

  • "I just care less... I don't have time for that shit anymore. I want to be free as an artist." (41:31, Quiara)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction to The White Hot & its premise – 04:02
• Creative influences & discovering transformative literature – 05:03–07:36
• Writing as community-building and ethical obligation – 11:33–13:26, 40:37
• Transitioning from playwriting to novel writing – 14:19–20:23
• "Dinner table scene" and the book’s musical genesis – 15:53–19:28
• On fictional voice and music as metaphor – 21:12–23:12
• On the pleasures and pitfalls of creative feedback – 49:39–52:05
• Frankenstein and criminal justice – 33:25–35:57
• On “sister branches” and female literary lineage – 52:49–54:23
• Book recommendations – 55:27–56:30

Final Thoughts

Hudes’ The White Hot and this conversation offer a meditation on forgiveness, shame, pleasure, and the ways women narrate their own lives—how we carry our choices, how we seek to be understood, and how literature gives voice to the “unforgivable.” Her reflections on narrative dignity, artistic process, and the role of the reader/audience are candid, musical, and fiercely intelligent—a must-listen for book lovers, writers, and anyone interested in the art of self-invention.

For more details, visit thestackspodcast.com.