The Stacks Podcast – Ep. 403: "Being Heartbroken Is Annoying" with Alejandro Varela

Date: December 17, 2025
Host: Traci Thomas
Guest: Alejandro Varela (National Book Award finalist, author of Middle Spoon)

Episode Overview

In this episode of The Stacks, host Traci Thomas is joined by Alejandro Varela to discuss his latest novel Middle Spoon. The conversation delves into heartbreak, the complexities of polyamorous relationships, the public health perspective Varela brings to his fiction, and the experience of feeling seen (and sometimes not liked) as both a writer and a person processing pain. Varela explores how his own desire for validation and need to be liked intersects with his work and the identities he brings to the page—brown, queer, the child of immigrants. Their exchange moves naturally through themes like mental health (especially OCD and anxiety), the writing process, public health, pop culture, and the universal aspects of grief.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introducing Middle Spoon and Its Unlikely Appeal

[02:25–04:16]

• Traci admits she was surprised by how much she loved Middle Spoon despite not thinking it would be her type of book:
  • “If you told me about the book, I would probably be like, that’s not for me, but I really liked it.” (Traci, 02:27)
• Varela outlines the plot:
  • The protagonist is a married, polyamorous middle-aged man with children whose boyfriend abruptly leaves him, leading to a spiraling process of heartbreak and grief.
  • The story unfolds via unsent emails to the boyfriend and others (including his mom, kids, the editor of The New York Times, and even the Department of Sanitation), blending humor and pathos.
  • The narrator seeks empathy and contends with public perception—how much sympathy are you allowed if your life appears “perfect”?

2. Writing from Pain: Heartbreak as Universal

[04:16–07:00]

• Varela began writing the novel after his own experience of heartbreak and was struck by how common the feeling is—everyone he asked, even strangers, immediately related and remembered their own heartbreak.
  • “...if everyone is going through this or if everyone has this at the surface and they haven’t processed [it]...you can take bereavement leave if a parent dies...but what do you say to your boss if you get dumped?” (Alejandro, 06:08)

3. The Value—and Nuisance—of Heartbreak

[07:00–08:52]

• Varela intentionally created a narrator who was not always likable, reflecting the annoying, self-absorbed aspects of heartbreak.
  • “Being heartbroken is annoying. Like, going through it is really taxing—not just on yourself but on the people around you.” (Alejandro, 07:17)
• Traci and Alejandro discuss the appeal of “sad-boy” characters and the fine line between self-pity and authenticity.

4. Researching Grief: Conversations at Parties

[09:33–11:44]

• To prepare, Varela had dozens of conversations—usually after opening up about his own situation—asking everyone, “Have you ever had your heart broken? How long does it last?”
  • He noticed themes of lingering pain and the range of recovery timelines.
  • “My therapist told me, you can get over anything in a year.” (Traci, 11:44)

5. Therapy, OCD & Validation

[11:56–15:13]

• The two-therapist motif in the novel draws from a period in Varela’s life of overlapping therapy.
• He explores how OCD shapes the narrator’s compulsion for reassurance and control, which is both comic and moving on the page.
• Varela draws direct parallels to his own socialization as a queer, brown, immigrant kid—constantly seeking validation and reassurance.
  • “Being queer and closeted...made it so that I felt very much on the outskirts... so I tried extra hard... wanting validation.” (Alejandro, 14:20)
• Traci affirms: “You are a great writer. Stick with it.”

6. Blending Reality and Fiction: Auto-fiction & Vulnerability

[17:25–20:09]

• Varela discusses putting more of himself onto the page in Middle Spoon compared to his first two books, and how this alters the reception from readers.
• He acknowledges the universality of grief and heartbreak, countering anxieties about the premise feeling “too niche.”
  • “There’s nothing more universal than grief.” (Alejandro, 20:09)

7. Making the Universal Specific—And Vice Versa

[20:09–23:19]

• Traci admits to seeing her own experiences in the book, highlighting its cross-demographic relatability.
  • “I was thinking...about men and I was like, this is why we’re having the male loneliness epidemic... and I was like, literally this is a book about queer people, and you’re trying to make it about straight men…” (Traci, 20:20)
• Varela notes some booksellers also didn’t expect to relate, but ended up hooked.

8. Polyamory, Queerness & Mainstream Palatability

[21:30–22:13]

• Varela talks about the pressure to write more “mainstream” stories (e.g., straight, white heartbreak), but remains committed to writing about “new experiences”—for both himself and the reader, foregrounding pain as a common ground.

9. Humor & Freshness in Heartbreak Narratives

[23:19–26:48]

• Both agree the book’s humor makes it stand out—the narrator’s “dumb,” embarrassing moments feel real and relatable.
  • “He’s not annoying, he’s just like, dumb. Do you know what I mean? Like, he just says dumb [things] and I’m like, stop. You’re so embarrassing, but it’s like endearing and it’s enjoyable to be with him.” (Traci, 23:51)
• Varela explains pop culture tangents serve a larger purpose—commenting on equity and value, even in “small” topics like the Oscars.

10. OCD, Anxiety & Mental Health Representation

[32:05–37:12]

• Varela learned a great deal about OCD while writing the book and wanted to depict its “cycle” (obsession → anxiety → compulsion → relief → obsession) accurately.
• Emphasizes that mental illness is painful in life but can be funny on the page; also, not to misrepresent or minimize these experiences.
• After publication, Varela received many DMs from readers about mental health, polyamory, and heartbreak—affirming the novel’s resonance.

“If it’s the 10th most common [illness] in the world, then a lot of us are walking around with this.” (Alejandro, 37:12)

11. Reader Responses & The Responsibility of Representation

[37:50–40:01]

• Varela’s DMs let him know his work matters, and also challenge him to represent marginalized communities and mental illness accurately.
  • “They personally, are validating. They make me think that I’ve chosen a path, a career, a job where I’m doing more good than harm and that’s all I ever want.” (Alejandro, 39:23)

12. Public Health as Literary Purpose

[40:08–43:47]

• Varela shares how his public health background—community engagement, equity, structural causes—shapes his approach to fiction.
• He considers himself still a public health worker, but believes fiction is a more potent medium to reach people than academic papers.

13. Hierarchies, Health, and Stress

[43:52–46:50]

• Explains the “hierarchy of health”—how social and economic status, difference, and discrimination increase stress and negatively impact health outcomes (cortisol, life expectancy).
  • “...the measure for stress increases cortisol...very useful [if] you’re about to give a speech...but when those levels stay elevated every single day...life expectancy decreases.” (Alejandro, 45:15)

14. Crafting Fiction Without Moralizing

[47:09–51:42]

• Traci asks how he avoids making his novels preachy despite having an agenda as a public health advocate.
  • Varela says his first drafts are always too preachy, and he’s learned to undercut with humor and “pleasure from the work.”
  • He wants his prose to be enjoyable for all, even if messages slip through.

“I consider myself a public health worker and my medium is fiction.” (Alejandro, 43:47)

15. Editing & Trust with Publishing Team

[52:04–54:52]

• Varela emphasizes his compulsive self-editing (wrote the first draft in five weeks, spent a year and a half editing).
• Discussion of the danger that editors become too deferential to established authors; Varela hopes never to lose honest feedback from his team.

16. Writing Process: Ritual, Place, and Snacks

[55:26–59:35]

• Prefers writing on the Long Island Railroad or Amtrak, not planes (“too nervous”).
• White noise or looping familiar music works best (“If it’s new, I’m too interested in it”).
• Not a big snacker—mostly water, sometimes a martini on retreat.
• Diagnosed with gluten and dairy sensitivity after age 40, which he weaves into his characters.

17. Book Recs & Literary Influences

[60:09–61:19]

• For fans of Middle Spoon, Varela suggests:
  • Natalia Ginzburg (“her voice is fabulous”)
  • Thomas Bernhard (Wittgenstein’s Nephew, Loser, Extinction) and W.G. Sebald (exhausting but instructive narrators)
• No immediate contemporary comparison, but loves a “backlist moment.”

18. “Dream Reader”

[61:19–62:33]

• Would love Terry Gross to read the book (“Hey, Terry Gross, give me some love”).
• If including the deceased: friend Jean, “my biggest champion.”

Notable Quotes

• On universal heartbreak:
  “What do you say to your boss if you get dumped? And it’s like your lover, not your partner, you know?” (Alejandro, 06:08)

• On unlikeable narrators:
  “Being heartbroken is annoying...If I’m gonna write this authentically, this person isn’t going to be likable all the time.” (Alejandro, 07:17)

• On needing validation:
  “I do have that in common with the narrator…I was raised…[as] the only Latin family…being queer and closeted…all of those things, I think made it so that I felt very much on the outskirts…wanting to be popular and wanting validation.” (Alejandro, 14:20)

• On OCD and anxiety:
  “OCD…is like this animal on your back…telling you you don’t have all the information, and you need all the information.” (Alejandro, 34:37)

• On public health and fiction:
  “Telling people to wear a condom is so much easier than telling them to collapse a hierarchy.” (Alejandro, 43:28)
  “I consider myself a public health worker and my medium is fiction.” (Alejandro, 43:47)

• On reader feedback:
  “They [DMs] make me think that I’ve chosen a path, a career where I’m doing more good than harm and that’s all I ever want.” (Alejandro, 39:23)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:25] – Varela introduces the plot of Middle Spoon
• [04:26] – Genesis of the book and Varela’s own heartbreak
• [07:00] – Discussing the “unlikeable” but authentic narrator
• [11:56] – Therapists, OCD, and anxiety in the novel—and in life
• [17:25] – Auto-fiction, self-insertion, and authorial vulnerability
• [20:09] – Universality and specificity of heartbreak
• [23:51] – Humor, embarrassment, and the "freshness" of the novel’s approach
• [32:05] – OCD and mental health: definitions and depictions
• [37:50] – Reader DMs and the ethics of representing marginalized identities
• [40:08] – Public health lens in Alejandro’s life and fiction
• [43:52] – Hierarchies, cortisol, and inequity in health outcomes
• [47:09] – Avoiding preachiness while maintaining a mission
• [55:26] – Varela’s writing rituals, music, snacking, and train inspiration
• [60:09] – Book recommendations for fans of Middle Spoon
• [61:19] – “Dream reader” answer (“Hey, Terry Gross”)

Tone & Style

• The conversation is insightful, open, and often humorous, marked by camaraderie and moments of confession (“I’ll just throw the diaper at the child”).
• Both Traci and Alejandro consistently balance seriousness with levity—poking fun at themselves and each other while remaining thoughtful about pain, difference, and community.
• The episode feels accessible and deeply empathetic, much like Varela’s fiction.

For Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

This episode will appeal to anyone interested in the intersection of fiction and lived experience, especially around heartbreak and queerness, as well as those curious about how social justice and public health concerns can be woven into literary fiction without feeling didactic or heavy-handed. Listeners who appreciate author process, mental health discussions, or simply love “sad but funny books” will find a great deal here—along with behind-the-page insight into what makes Alejandro Varela such a unique contemporary novelist.