Ep. 406 A Consumer of Pop Culture First with Christiana Mbakwe Medina

Summary

The Stacks – Ep. 406: “A Consumer of Pop Culture First with Christiana Mbakwe Medina”

Host: Traci Thomas
Guest: Christiana Mbakwe Medina
Date: January 7, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this dynamic episode of The Stacks, Traci Thomas sits down with Emmy-nominated TV writer, journalist, and host of the upcoming podcast Pop Syllabus, Christiana Mbakwe Medina. Their conversation dives into Christiana’s formative relationship with books and storytelling, her approach to critical pop culture analysis, the nuance of celebrity personas, questions of class and ambition in the UK vs. the US, and of course, book recommendations and reading habits.

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Key Topics & Insights

Christiana’s Background & Literary Upbringing

• Oral Tradition and Storytelling:

  • Christiana credits her Nigerian Igbo heritage and parents—her father’s love of debate and her mother’s passion for reading—for fostering her love of stories.
  • Quote: “I come from a culture of storytellers... storytelling and chronicling our histories and the way of understanding our world in that way is just very germane to us.” (06:31)

• Family Reading Rituals:

  • The family regularly discussed and read the Bible together.
  • Listening to and reading the Sunday paper was a cherished family activity.

Critical Engagement with Pop Culture

• Becoming a “Consumer First”:

  • Christiana describes herself as a “fan first”—she engages with pop culture out of genuine enjoyment before bringing in critical analysis.

  • She interrogates the media she consumes, examining why certain narratives attract her and their impact on her values.

  • Quote: "I'm a consumer of pop culture first and, like, a lover... But I think as you grow... you’re interrogating what you’re consuming... is this good for me? If it’s not, why isn’t it? What are the forces acting on pop culture itself?" (14:02–15:25)

Comedy Writing and TV Career

• Finding Comedy in Darkness:

  • Christiana’s background includes writing for The Daily Show with Trevor Noah and The Morning Show.

  • She was discovered on Twitter and entered comedy writing via research roles, despite not seeing herself as “funny” at first.

  • Quote: “It’s a show that tries to find the comedy in the darkness and the horrors of the world. So comedy writing became part of my career.” (11:04–11:20)

On Celebrity, Public Persona, and Pop Performance

• Nuanced Views on Celebrities:

  • Discussion includes Christiana’s “prickly but loving” relationship with Beyoncé (17:00), fascination with figures like Meghan Markle, and skepticism of wealthy celebrities flaunting relatability.

• Performing Identity in Pop Culture:

  • Christiana argues celebrity identities (especially Markle’s) are public performances—strategic and sometimes necessary shields.
  • Quote: "Meghan Markle is a character that she plays. The Meghan Markle that the public consume, for good or for bad, is kind of a character..." (23:52–24:30)

Class, Ambition, and American Exceptionalism

• UK vs. US Attitudes:
  • In the UK, the class system stifles ambition, whereas the US celebrates “betting on yourself”—for better and worse.
  • Quote: "In England... the expectation is that the class you were born into is the class you will die in... Whereas in America, if you say to someone, 'I'm going to build the biggest tech company that ever existed,' they'd be like, 'Oh, wow.'" (29:43–32:29)

British Pop Culture & Sports

• Working-Class Dynamics in Football (Soccer):
  • Christiana notes the sport’s working-class roots and the limited class mobility for footballers even amid wealth and success.
  • Quote: "Football... is a working-class sport now... most of the parents here, they're investing a lot in this trial because this is our ticket out of the hood." (34:54–36:19)

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Book Club, Recommendations, and Reading Habits

Book Club Pick

• January Selection:
  • Girl on Girl: How Pop Culture Turned a Generation of Girls Against Themselves by Sophie Gilbert
  • Christiana returns on January 28th for a deep dive.

Book Recs for Families

Ask The Stacks segment – Recommendations for a diverse reading family (40:54+):

• Traci’s Picks:

  • The Things They Carried by Tim O'Brien
  • Friday Black by Nana Kwame Adjei-Brenyah
  • There Is No Place for Us by Brian Goldstone

• Christiana’s Picks:

  • The Thing Around Your Neck by Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie
  • The Family Dynamic by Susan Dominus
  • The God of Small Things by Arundhati Roy

Rapid Fire Book Chat (44:52–56:19)

• Books Christiana Loves:

  • The Warmth of Other Suns by Isabel Wilkerson
  • Fates and Furies by Lauren Groff

• Book(s) She “Hates”:

  • Pauline books of the Bible (“Pauline theology has been really bad for women.” [45:49])

• Reading Habits:

  • Always reading, across different media (Kindle, audio, print)

  • Prefers books mostly by women; dislikes smut/romantasy genre but respects its cultural importance

  • Quote: "I read constantly... I think I'm the person that people kind of outsource their reading to." (48:28)

• Recent & Impactful Reads:

  • Empire of Normality: Neurodiversity and Capitalism by Robert Chapman (54:30)
  • How to Be Well by Amy LaRocca – “A real interrogation of the multi-billion-dollar wellness empire and how it targets women.” (57:00)
  • Acting (or Actress) of a Certain Age by Jeff Hiller – made her both laugh and cry (59:42 & 59:56)

• Other Recommendations:

  • The Twittering Machine by Richard Seymour (would assign to high schoolers about tech/social media) (63:47)
  • The Warmth of Other Suns by Isabel Wilkerson (for the President—“every president needs to have a deep respect for Black Americans and their contributions and their sacrifice and their courage.” [65:15])

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Pop Culture Consumption:
  • "Ultimately I'm just a fan first." – Christiana (15:25)
• On Performance in the Public Eye:
  • “Everyone in pop culture is doing this delicate dance... you make up some fictions.” – Christiana (24:00)
• On UK vs. US Attitudes:
  • “In England... ambition is frowned on. It’s seen as nasty.” (29:43)
• On Reading Smut:
  • "I'm more curious about why women are into smut outside of the sexual desire and the fantasy... I'd be interested in the overlap [with] men consuming porn." (51:38)
• On Reading Goals:
  • “I think I could probably read less because I think if I read less, I could sit with the books I do enjoy more.” (55:31)
• On Being Embarrassed About Books:
  • “I'm actually very anti that kind of elitism... I think you're honoring that time.” (62:16)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Pop culture as personal and critical practice: 14:02–15:25
• UK vs. US class, ambition, and celebrity: 29:43–32:29
• Family Ask the Stacks—book recs: 40:54–44:38
• Quickfire reading habits & favorites: 44:52–56:19
• Deepest book recommendation for a president: 65:08

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Summary Takeaways

• Engagement with stories is rooted in Christiana’s Nigerian-British background, family, and oral tradition.
• She brings a joyful, but critical, fan’s eye to all things pop culture—constantly questioning the forces that shape what we love.
• Thoughtful about the intersection of class, culture, and ambition, Christiana draws out differences between the US and UK that shape both literature and celebrity.
• Her reading life is omnivorous and passionate, with a strong preference for works by women and a skeptical but curious attitude toward cultural phenomena she doesn’t enjoy.
• Recommended reads range from literary fiction to journalism, memoir, and pop culture critique.
• She believes in reading for yourself, skipping embarrassment or canon anxiety, and returning to texts when the moment is right.

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Next Steps:
Don’t miss the The Stacks Book Club conversation on Girl on Girl (Jan 28th, 2026) with Traci and Christiana.

For more highlights and bookish content, visit thestackspodcast.com.

Transcript

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

England, it's a country where the expectation is that the class you were born into is a class you will die in. In the sense that if a lord dies penniless, he's still a part of the aristocracy. You are who you are. It doesn't matter what you accomplish. Ambition is frowned on. It's seen as nasty. Whereas in America, if you say to someone, I'm going to build the biggest tech company that ever existed, they'd be like, oh, wow, you know, I need to connect you with so and so let me like it's a. People really believe and unfortunately that's kind of like the tragedy at the heart of the nation because everybody believes that maybe there'll be a billionaire one day. And it's, you know. Yeah, it just means you get a Kim Kardashian, you get Trump, you get Mandani.

[Tracy Thomas]

Welcome to the Stacks, a podcast about books and the people who read them. I'm your host, Tracy Thomas and today we are joined by Emmy nominated TV writer, journalist and and host of the Pop Syllabus podcast, Christiana Mbaque Medina. Today we talk about how Christiana became such a critical reader and thinker of pop culture, the ways that celebrities perform themselves and how we think critically about them and some of her all time favorite books. Our book club pick for January is Girl on Girl How Pop Culture Turned a Generation of Girls Against Themselves by Sophie Gilbert. Christiana will be back on Wednesday, January 28th to discuss this book with us. Everything we talk about on each episode of the Stacks can be found in the link in the show notes. If you like this podcast. If you want some more bookish content and community, consider joining the Stacks Pack on [e-mail] the stacks and subscribing to my newsletter unstacked@tracy thomas substack.com both of these places offer different perks including bonus episodes, community conversation, virtual book clubs, hot takes and more. Plus your support makes it possible for me to make this podcast every single week. So head to Patreon and Substack to join. All right, now it is time for my conversation with Christiana Medina. All right everybody, I'm really excited today because I have a person on the show who I'm just like a fan of. I just, you know, discovered her on the Internet and was like, oh, this person should come on the Stacks. And that is Christiana Mbaque Medina. Welcome to the Stacks.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Oh my God, Tracy, thank you for having me.

[Tracy Thomas]

I have to tell people so. I am a die hard lifelong fan of Tressie McMillan, Cotton and Tressi.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

The queen. The queen, right.

[Tracy Thomas]

Like the perfect human. And she did this podcast in 2019 when thick came out, and I just fell in love with her and have been in love with her ever since. And I came to you because she did the Trevor Noah podcast. And anything she does, I listen to. And I've never listened to the Trevor Noah podcast. And then I hear this woman on the show and I'm like, that's not Trevor Noah.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

It was you.

[Tracy Thomas]

And I was like, this Christiana woman is outstanding. I immediately DM trusty and I'm like, hey, sorry to be weird, but could you connect me to Christiana? And she was like, I am waiting for this episode to come out. She was so excited.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Oh my God.

[Tracy Thomas]

So we finally did it. You. You had to like go have a child in between.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

I had a baby. I was immediately in. I was sold. But when we initially connected, I was like, I think I was eight months pregnant. Yeah. I was like, let's do this. After I have the baby and my brain is like somewhat normal. I had my third baby. I'm done with the babies and I'm happy to be here today day.

[Tracy Thomas]

I'm so happy you're here. I'm happy you're done with the babies. I'm happy that I get your attention now. Move over, babies.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

There's a new baby. Move over.

[Tracy Thomas]

So let's sort of start where we always start, which is everyone's least favorite question, but is important for the listeners. Can you kind of tell folks about yourself? Where are you from?

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

What.

[Tracy Thomas]

What do you do? And then sort of, what's your relationship to books?

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

So my name is Christian Backbe Medina. I grew up in South London, England. The children of Nigerian immigrants. Igbo heritage, but very much black, British Nigerian and all the things that come with that. Moved to the states about 10 years ago to break it into the wonderful world of writing. Worked at, I didn't work at. I attended Columbia journalism school and then after that somehow found my way into late night TV and was a writer for the Daily show with Trevor Noah. I wrote in the most recent season of the morning show and somehow became a somewhat podcaster. Now have my own substack and a podcast that maybe out. When you guys listen to this, the.

[Tracy Thomas]

First episode come out, do you know.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

It should be January 15th. But don't hold me to that because my brain is mush. So early January, early mid January in the new year.

[Tracy Thomas]

This episode will come out on January 7th, so.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Oh, so we won't be out yet. That's. But the trailer will be out.

[Tracy Thomas]

You can still subscribe. Yeah, you go subscribe. So that whenever it comes, you'll get it in your ears.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

I'm a pop. A lover of pop culture, Just obsessed with it. And I like to just deconstruct it and find out more about it and what it says about us in the world. So it's a. It's a podcast about pop culture, my relationship with books. Oh, my God, that's such a good question. I come from the tradition of how stories are passed in my culture is the oral tradition. And so my memories as a child, I think a lot about my dad telling me Anansi stories and telling us about his experience as a child in the Biafra war and about my grandparents and just like, our family story. So I come from a culture of, like, storytellers. It's kind of just baked in. Igbos, especially in Nigeria, are known for kind of being part of this. I don't know, of course, the intelligentsia, but, you know, Chinua chaba comes to mind. And Chimamanda and, you know, like, storytelling and chronicling our histories and the way of understanding our world in that way is just very germane to us. So part of that oral tradition. And my parents love to read, and I think those things are connected, just the oral tradition and then, you know, where it's documented. So my parents love to read their reading all the time. So I was always reading. And it was newspapers. The Sunday Times, this is a British newspaper. They used to have this kids section. I don't know if they still have it. I think it was the Fun Day Times, and that was the insert I'd go for. And then when I got a bit older, it was a style insert. And I just remember the Sunday paper being a thing my dad would get on our drive to church, and we'd come back and it'd be this big, broad sheet, and everyone would take a bit of the paper that they wanted. Like, my mom would read the Sunday Times Magazine, and, you know, so was. I was always being read to or reading. And obviously growing up in church, the central text, the Bible book that was read, you might have heard of it, bestseller. I'm not sure about the writers room, but basically it would. A lot of our reading as a family would be really nightly reading the Bible together and, like, discussing scripture and discussing it. They were very interested in us knowing the Word and understanding the Word and talking about the Word. So reading was just a thing that we did. And Then, of course, there was like, the academic piece of, you have to do well in school. And a big part of that is studying. And how do you study? You read books? Well, back then. Now, I don't know. It's chat GPT, but they don't study. But, yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

What I'm so. Okay. I love this idea of like, your whole family reading the newspaper and you all reading the Bible and, like, talking about it, because I. I think the thing that I've always really liked about your work, both your substack now and, like, hearing you talk about things on the podcast, is that you clearly have such a strong ability to analyze culture in the same way that I think people analyze books. So I'm always drawn to the way that you look at something and you're like, did you notice this one little thing? Let's extrapolate that out. Do you think that comes from. From kind of these, like, family Bible study moments?

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

So I will say credit to my father. Like, if anyone who knows my dad, like, his congregants will call him pastor in Bakwe. He's known for using very big words and, like, and enjoying a debate. And my dad is someone I was calling my, like, intellectual sparring partner. And he would always just kind of be. He's like the polemicist. He would always occupy the opposite position, even if it was to provoke. So I was just. I had this debater, and then I had my mother, who. Who really is the one who bought most of the books. My mom is always buying a book. She used to be into this guy called Derek Prince. I don't know if he's alive, but, like, he. One of these preacher people. But, like, she'd have all these books and she'd be at bookstores, and so she'd take me to places and I'd be like, I want a book too. And so I leave. I learned to read from my mother and really to question from my father. And then just being an outsider, just being a young black girl in London, you're. You're just kind of. You're on the. The fringes really, of the. The mainstream culture in England, especially at the 80s, in the 80s, in the 90s. So I think the. Being an outsider means I look at the world from a different point of view, but only when I have that point of view is because I. I read it somewhere.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah, I. I love this. I love. I'm obsessed. Okay, so how did you get into comedy writing or writing and comedy?

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

I guess that's a. You know what That's a really good question, because I, like, I don't see myself as a funny person because I say to my husband all the time, I'm like, why? I'm. I'll be like. To my friend, I'm so depressed. Like, and it's so. I'm like, depression is so mundane. Like, it's not fabulous. Like. And my friends are laughing. I'm like, I'm telling you I'm depressed.

[Tracy Thomas]

Do you know Hanif Abdurq?

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Do you know who that is?

[Tracy Thomas]

He wrote, like, there's always this year, and.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

So he talks about this. He talks about being. He's like, shout out to all my depressed people who are the funniest person in their friend group. He's like, it's a burden I'm gonna have to carry.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

I'd be like, I'm depressed or I'm anxious. I just think, like, I have just. I don't even have to have a thing to be depressed about. I just think I have a baseline level of pessimism that has followed me since I, like, joined this earth. But I say to. I'm like, why are you laughing? It would be a thing. As a kid or even, like, now in my life, I'm like. I'm telling people, like, something very serious, and they're laughing. My husband is just like, you have, like, a funny way of putting things or maybe a funny read on the world. But I actually thought I would just be a feature writer and kind of do journalism and maybe do the David Simon thing of, you have a great story, and it becomes a book, and that book becomes a TV show, which, you know, becomes the Wire. You know, I had very small ambitions, but it. I was found on Twitter and ended up at the Daily show, initially as a researcher, which involves a lot of reading, and then made my way to the writers room, and, you know, it's a show that tries to find the comedy in the darkness and the horrors of the world. So it just became comedy writing became part of my career. Kind of, like, found me in that way. And in hindsight, it kind of makes sense.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah. I mean, if you are a depressed person who's funny, finding the comedy and the horrors of the world feels like.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

At home to know that I'm more anxious than depressed. Like, anxiety is my brand more than depression. I don't want them to get that misunderstand.

[Tracy Thomas]

Well, I'm not that you were a little anxious, because when we first got on and you pulled out all your notes for book club, I was like, this is my kind of person. This level of stress and anxiety and over preparation. Are you a perfectionist?

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

I used to be, but now I have like three kids, so I can't be. That's actually not driven by anxiety. That's driven by like a relentless need to be excellent. But that's more like, I also need to have it to hand. I don't know, I'm very like, I need to feel the quotes. Some people are the highlight people. Yeah. Or like fold the page people. But then my husband judges me for how I fold the page because he's a bookmark person and I can't deal with his judgment. So I've become this person who like.

[Tracy Thomas]

Okay, so I fold the bottom of the page. Now this is my new thing.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

So you can't.

[Tracy Thomas]

Like, when you look at the book, it doesn't really look messed up, but then down there, there's all the paintings.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

That looks very good. But you've got like the colored.

[Tracy Thomas]

This is just for the tap. This is just for the chapters. Because I knew when we would talk about the book, for. Also for people listening, we're talking about Girl on Girl, which is our book club pick, which we'll read at the end of the month.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

And I have, I have my copy here too. We're very.

[Tracy Thomas]

I'm very excited. But this is for next time. This is for next time. You love pop culture. Do you remember the first, like pop culture thing where like young Christiana was just, this is it. This is being alive.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

My God. That is such a good question. I would say the most, like, visceral memory because I have so many. Because like, you know, Spice Girls and all of that. It was when I saw a girl band called Cleopatra on tv.

[Tracy Thomas]

Cleopatra coming at you, coming at you.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

And they were three beautiful brown skinned girls with these gorgeous big braids and they had the style and the swag. And I just remember being like, oh, that. I was like a gog. That was. I was like, that's me. I love this. And I think they were on a show called the Big Breakfast or something and I was just like, wow. I remember that very pointedly. Yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

I also love pop culture, but I'm not as good as you at seeing pop culture. Like, I don't know, there's just like something magical that you do with pop culture that I. I just. It blows me away every single time. So I'm curious.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Very kind. Are.

[Tracy Thomas]

Are you consciously thinking of it in a specific way or is this just like how your brain works?

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

The first thing is Like, I'm a consumer of pop culture first and, like, a lover. Like, it's what I come to, whether it's television, music, fashion, like, in all art, in all the myriad of ways it shows up, I am a consumer first. Even if I'm not necessarily purchasing from pop culture. I'm probably watching a reality TV show, or I'm like, I just got off Hollywood Unlocked. Because I'm like, so what's Ray J. Saying? You know, Like, I'm just, like. I'm just that. That's the drama of the day. So I'm a consumer first, a fan first. But I think as you grow, maybe just because of my temperament and my personality and I just. How I'm intellectually inclined, it gets to a point where you're like, you're interrogating your consumer, what you're consuming. For me, I had to think about what I desired, what I wasn't listening to, what I was listening to, not just as an expression of my politics, because I think that's a bit, like, very pretentious, but, like, is this good for me? If it's not good for me, why isn't it good for me? The people creating it, do they know they're making a thing that's not good for me? They probably don't. So why is that? What are the forces acting on pop culture itself that pop culture is not aware of? And basically, what are the forces acting on me? And I think that was in my 30s. I started to think more carefully about who I was standing and why I was standing and why I stand that person and not that person. And I think it's been an evolution into this way of kind of deconstructing pop culture. But ultimately, I'm just a fan first.

[Tracy Thomas]

Do you. Is there anyone you can think of specifically that you used to love that you had to, like, reevaluate, and you now are out on.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

You know, me and Beyonce have a very prickly relationship in my mind, but it's always love. It's based in love. She was my first concert. Oh, I went with my. A good friend. Yeah. Destiny's Child, London Arena, 1990 something.

[Tracy Thomas]

Do you know my first concert, Spice Girls? It was the first show or one of the first shows after Ginger Spice left, but.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Oh, so you got four of them?

[Tracy Thomas]

I got four. And you know the song where they're like, Scary Baby, Ginger Posh. They did it. They did Scary Baby, and then it just played the background track like Posh. And I was like, boom. Because she's my favorite but in a turn, a life changing turn on the show last year, Jerry Hollowell Horner came on this very podcast and she is.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Like, so sophisticated and she, I stand her.

[Tracy Thomas]

She was. But so I was, I wasn't sure what to expect. Yeah, obviously, because she's such a lady now.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

She's such a lady.

[Tracy Thomas]

She's such a lady now. She was reading Crime and, or War and Peace.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Of course she was. I love.

[Tracy Thomas]

What are you reading? She's like, oh, this old thing.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

War and Peace.

[Tracy Thomas]

She was so kind and so lovely. And she was like, what are your goals in life?

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

And I was like, I love that.

[Tracy Thomas]

I'm the host.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

I know.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah. But anyway, sorry, you were talking about Beyonce.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Yeah. So it was my, it was my first concert and it was actually a funny concert. Not funny. Kelly had a broken foot, so she sat in a chair and Solange Dance was like the third member. So, yeah, it was just, it was just a very, I remember it very clearly. And I went with a childhood friend play cousin of mine. And so she's somebody I've watched grow. And I was like, super beehive. Like, I was in it, like, spend my last pound on Beyonce. That was how in I was. And then I think it was actually around Lemonade.

[Tracy Thomas]

I was like.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

You know, I started to see the layers in the text and then Cowboy Carter. And then I think I left the fold for a bit. Even though I go to every show. And then Cowboy Carter, I came back in in a significant way because I just saw it as such a feat of artistic growth. Like, I'm always interested in people who don't plateau, who expand and do another level. And I was like, wow, she took a big swing and, and it paid off. And then I went and saw the show and I was like, oh, this feels like a farewell. Like, there's only so many more arena tourists. You can do like this just as a function of time. So that is a pop culture icon that, like, my friends are like, you're so obsessed. I'm in a group chat with two friends. They're like, you're so obsessed. You're such a hater. And I'm like, no, it's love, but it's something I reflect on a lot.

[Tracy Thomas]

I, I, I love this. I love this. I am excited for whatever you write or talk about when part three comes out.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Oh, my God, right? Act three. I think I'm, I have, I, I'm excited too. I'm excited too. I wonder how, what do you think.

[Tracy Thomas]

It'S going to be? I think it's going to be rock.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

I think it's going to be rock. Or maybe blues.

[Tracy Thomas]

Oh, maybe I've heard some people say gospel.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Mm. I don't see Beyonce doing a straight up gospel album. The reason why that's my contention is because they'd always do those. When she was in Destiny's Child, they do those kind of gospel outros like Amazing Grace that they. I think they covered total praise, Giving you all the praise. Jesus loves me oh, yes, he does Jesus loves me oh, yes, he does so I think she's kind of done that, you know, like, that's been like the kind of. The church has been resonant in a lot of her work. And it wouldn't be. We'd be like, okay, Beyonce, we know you can sing gospel, right? Whereas I think doing like, a straight rock album and she's kind of. Remember, she does that Alanis Morissette cover. I think she's always kind of been in a sad girl, gothy vibe.

[Tracy Thomas]

I want the rock.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

I want it to rock is what I want.

[Tracy Thomas]

People are like, we want an R and B album. We have those. We don't need.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

I want to see a channel. Tina Turner and all the greats. I want her to reclaim that legacy. So, yeah, I want to see rock.

[Tracy Thomas]

Plus, if she takes that on an arena tour, the choreography she'll be able to pull off, no problem. Because that was the big thing between Renaissance and Cowboy Carter is like, oh, she's dancing less. But if she does a rock album, she can just, like Mick Jagger strut for three hours. Also, like, she doesn't have to.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

The dance in this thing. I'm like, it's like being an athlete and expecting them to do a sprint. Like, no, it's like, she's an athlete, and sometimes some shows, you dance less. She needs to take care of her instrument body. So actually, I prefer it when there's less dancing because it's. It's a more imaginative show. So you have.

[Tracy Thomas]

And she was vocally better at Cowboy Carter because she was dancing less.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

I like the low end. That was a thing that I was like, oh, my God. She's using her lower register and she sounds really beautiful. Because some starlets, they always want to sing how they sang at 21, which is not like women's. Our voices deepen with time. So I loved hearing that part of her voice. So, yeah, she's so many. You know, I swing back and forth, but I came around with Cowboy Carter.

[Tracy Thomas]

I, too, have swung back and forth, but I'm Sort of feeling out on her right now.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Tell me why.

[Tracy Thomas]

Because a lot of the stuff, like all these appearances with the Kardashians and the bases, and I'm just like. I just. I don't. I just have this thing about really rich people who are beloved, which is, go away. That's my feeling. Like, I have a real issue with Meghan Markle because I'm mixed. I'm a mixed California American.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

What's your. Which one? What's your mix?

[Tracy Thomas]

So I have a black dad and a white mom, so I have the opposite mix as her. But I find a lot of her conversation on race of like, oh, I didn't know about race. To just be so disingenuous that it just drives me absolutely crazy. Like, your mom has dreadlocks. Don't tell me you don't know.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Especially in California. Very. You know, she.

[Tracy Thomas]

And she grew up in L. A. She would have been like, 10 or 11 during the Watts or during the L. A riots.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

Don't tell me race didn't come up because I was, like, 6, and I remember being like, racism. And also O.J.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

O.J. I was about to say O.J. yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

All of that would have been in the most formative time in her life. So I just don't buy it.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

But I feel this way about the Obamas. I feel this way about Oprah. Sometime I have.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

You know, it's the black rich people, Tracy.

[Tracy Thomas]

Well, I don't like other rich people. Especially, like, I'm not, like, really worried. I mean, this applies to Prince Harry, which is just like, go be rich. Don't hang out with people that fucking suck and go be fabulous. I don't want you to be relatable. I want you to be rich. I want you to be on a yacht. I don't want you to be selling me a Netflix show and rebranding Trader Joe's. I don't care. You're rich. Like, I want to be. I want to be like you. And I want to be really rich one day. And I want to only buy the most expensive pretzels filled with peanut butter.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

You'd go away. You'd have the dignity to be, like, be rich away.

[Tracy Thomas]

You might get a long lens photo of me on a beach.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

I love that.

[Tracy Thomas]

Private.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

I'm with you.

[Tracy Thomas]

I don't.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

I'm with you, Beyonce.

[Tracy Thomas]

You don't need to go to this dinner and sit with the Kardashians. Just donate the money and go away. Like, just appear at the Met Gala. Only appear at places That I could never be, you know, like, why are you sitting with a Kushner? No, thank you. So that's my feeling. It's like if you have a $200 million home.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

Stay there.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Well, the funny thing is, like, most. Most people are, like, anonymously wealthy. Most wealthy people go to great pains to make sure we don't know who they are, because they know we'll eat them if we can. Oh, we want to be them. But I think pop culture is one of these worlds where it's quite interesting where you see people who could otherwise be anonymously wealthy try and buy access or. Or kind of flaunt their wealth. With Meghan Markle, I think Meghan Markle is a character that she plays. The Meghan Markle that the public consume, for good or for bad is kind of a character.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Meghan, the person subcontracts herself to play this character of Meghan Markle, and you make up some fictions. Like, you talk about the fact like, I was never aware of race or I didn't know who this man was. And that's not to cast aspersions at all. I think all public figures in pop culture are doing this delicate dance, and often you do it to protect yourself. Because if the world knew the true you, how would they treat the true you? Does the world even deserve to know the true you? Right. These are more bigger, grander, pop, cultural, philosophical questions. So I think Meghan Markle, the character in public, has to play innocent about race. And that's actually to be palatable to, I think, both sides. The side that hate her and the side that love her. I think the sides that love her really want to buy into this kind of post racial fantasy that the union of her and Harry means that the world is more progressive than it seems. And then the other side want this idea of race not existing to justify why they despise it. It's not because of her race. It's because of something else, even though we know that's not true. Like, her racial background informs so much of this vitriol. And also being an American, I think that there's just, like, people don't like Americans. So she has to say that as this character, she's manufactured how it is in her personal life. She deals with being a biracial woman all the time. She has to press her hair. Right. Her friends don't have to do that. There's these little things that she has to do that means race is omnipresent, even if she pushes it to the corner. So I see that as just the character she plays in public, which all. Everyone in pop culture is doing.

[Tracy Thomas]

I hate her character.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

You don't enjoy the character?

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah, I don't like the character, but I am rooting for her always. Do you know what I mean? Like, I'm like, I don't hate her. I just get so annoyed because I'm like, why are you lying to me? Like, girl, I am you. I know.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

You know, But I also think that, like, her, her. Her visual ambiguity informs. Why she can do that dance. No, but honestly, I think for sure, yeah. It's like you clearly code as it depends. You're ambiguous in a different way. Like, kind of like when I say ethnic ambiguity, some people be like, are you Ethiopian? Are you Guyanese? Are you African American?

[Tracy Thomas]

You know, like, that's when I straighten my hair. People think I'm Indian.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Indian, right. Like my mother in law. It's pretty similar to you. She's Dominican. And my mother in law, really beautiful. And she can pass for a ton of things. Like someone was like that Indian woman, that Indian doctor, she was like, I'm not Indian, I'm Dominican. But, you know, that's, you know, she. She has a ethnic and racial ambiguity there. And I think the way that Meghan codes for some groups, you know, black people, like, well, we saw her edges, we knew what she was, you know, like, tons of people like what she does. But then some people see and be like, oh, she's Sicilian, right? So I think because of that and how she's maybe coped with, I don't know, that experience. I have a husband that's ethnically ambiguous, but I think it's a different experience when you're a man. Because of that, you can maybe play innocent, or you may have been shielded from certain things. But I also think that means you are more privy to conversations that people say things about minorities that they may not say around somebody like myself who is clearly unambiguously of African descent. So that I think she's seen behind the curtain a bit. And maybe she doesn't want to say what she sees. Or maybe it's the fact that she feels guilty about being behind the curtain. I think she's a very complicated person. I actually really enjoy her because I think she turns. Tells us so much more about ourselves than we're willing to look at. Like, you know, I hate the fact that she has to work and she's married to this prince. Yeah, she should be taking this money.

[Tracy Thomas]

Can you be royal? Can you Guys, go be royal. Away from me.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

There's no money. They've left the country. She has to do Netflix.

[Tracy Thomas]

Go get the Louvre jewels.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Okay? Just walk in the loop and be.

[Tracy Thomas]

Like, this belongs to my family.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

I'm just built the way the work world works now. Old money doesn't have that much money. It's the working rich. It's the Bezos. It's the tech magnets. They are the people that are, like, flush with cash in ways. Everyone else kind of has to work or steal. Depends.

[Tracy Thomas]

Or both.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Or both.

[Tracy Thomas]

Right. However you want to make exactly 50.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

50.

[Tracy Thomas]

Okay. We are going to leave Megan Markle alone for now.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Well, I'm going to. I enjoy her. Even though people think I do too. I enjoy it. I think she, like, great construction, incredible.

[Tracy Thomas]

I think, yes. I think she's, like, a such a fascinating person of this era. Like, she's going to end up being the definitive person of, like, the mid-2010 to. To now. Like, this decade is sort of the Meghan Markle decade, even if there's definitely a piece to be written about her and Trump and, like, the whole thing. There's.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

I think there's. Yes, But I think it's what they all have, in a way, is this very American gumption of, like, you know, say in London, I'm gonna try a ting. Like, Meghan was like, you know, I'm gonna get that prince. Kim was like, I'm gonna build a billion dollar empire. Trump was like, I'm gonna be president. Right? And you look at Trump and you're like, why does he get on with Mandani? Cause he's like. He sees that hustle of like, oh, I'm gonna be mayor. And Trump's like, you know what? I actually respect it. He's like, I don't agree with anything. Like, he was like, I don't agree with his politics, but he bet on himself. And I think it's that betting on yourself. And it's very. It's actually, like, politically neutral. Like, we see it in the Mamdanis and the AOCs, who are very left, but we see it on the people on the right with, like, J.D. vance and Donald Trump. And then we see it with our pop cultural figures of like, a Kim Kardashian or a Meghan Markle or these people, just like, you know, I'm going to try a thing, and it works.

[Tracy Thomas]

Do you think. Do you think it's uniquely American?

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

Of course.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Of course. I think there is.

[Tracy Thomas]

I don't know, because I Am an American.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

No, I think that.

[Tracy Thomas]

So like, I think your perspective is absolutely like I.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

In England, it's a country where, because it's such a class based culture, you know, just having the monarchy aside, but it's a country where the expectation is that the class you were born into is a class you will die in. And you can't really drop or transcend your class in the sense that if a lord dies penniless, he's still a part of the aristocracy. Aristocracy, right. It's like he's still a lord. It's like he still has blue blood. Right. Whereas I always talk about Michael Kane, who is like one of the most famous actors of all time. Millions of dollars, millions of pounds, but he's still considered working class because of his roots and his background, despite the fact what of what he's achieved. So that's really in the psyche of the country. Like you are who you are, it doesn't matter what you accomplish. Your birth is so definitive of how people read you socially. And so what that does is kind of you frown on, ambition is frowned on. It's seen as nasty, right? It's just because you, you know, and there's a different social system, there's nhs, there's a welfare, there's all of these things that kind of not aid that, but reflect that. Right. And so part of why I left was because I was like, you know, I want, you know, I was, I'm very Nigerian and aspirational and somebody I remember was once this English friend of mine who went to Eton, then Oxford and then I actually met them at Columbia Journalism school. And he was, he said to me, you're very aspirational. I was like, what do you mean like that? He was like, yeah, you know, you're Nigerian. You guys are very aspirational. He's a very posh boy. And I was like, um, loaded. But he was right. But then it being from a country that unless you're from a subculture. So my friends who were like Indian and Bangladeshi and Ghanaian and Jamaican, like, they came from backgrounds where it's like, hey, try and have hunger and transcend this. Whereas the general consensus is just like to bet on yourself and have that gumption is not, it's kind of frowned upon. And that's why if you ever see, if you're ever on Tick Tock on Twitter, you see people saying UK has bad vibes. That's what they're talking about. They're talking about that. The idea of like, people want to break out and do something different. And you're like, oh, why you want to do that? Whereas in America, if you say to someone, I'm going to build the biggest tech company that ever existed, they'll be like, oh, wow, you know what I need to connect you with? So. And so let me. Like, it's a. People really believe. And unfortunately, that's kind of like the tragedy at the heart of the nation, because everybody believes that maybe they'll be a billionaire one day. And it's, you know.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

It's why there's no fight for this real universal health care and all of these things that would make life easier for the masses. But it just means you get a Kim Kardashian, you get Trump, you get Mandani, you get Meghan Markle.

[Tracy Thomas]

Because these people just don't exist in the uk.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Well, because, a. The systems aren't there to make it happen. Right. So, like, for our UK stars to be really exploded, our pop culture icons all have to come here. And there's a legacy of that from the Beatles with Beatlemania, and then we can trace it to the Spice Girls and we can say, like, Adele and an Ed Sheeran. Right. If they stay in Europe, they become like a Robbie Williams, who I love thinks like great music, but most Americans are like, who the heck is Robbie Williams?

[Tracy Thomas]

Right, right, right.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

But to get to that level of, like, infamy and be known, you have to come and make it in America. There's something to that. And so this place, the country, for all of its faults, kind of has some pathway and it's encouraged. Like, parents want to start, you know. Oh, yeah. It's like, whereas I grew up in a country is like, why are you drawing attention to yourself? Whereas the parents here are like, more attention for my kid. My kid is special, and my kid is going to play baseball in mlb. And I'm like, why are you wasting your time? Right. But these parents really believe. So it's very. It's. They're very different places and they create these characters for good or for bad. I mean, I think whatever you feel about President Trump, he's been this truth serum. Like, he's like America's id. He's revealed so much about the countries in ways that wouldn't have happened if Hillary had won or Kamala had won. Right. Harris had won. Sorry. I get in trouble for that when I use her first. Oh, for saying their first first name. Yeah. So, yeah, it's. Yes.

[Tracy Thomas]

You know, I'm so. I'm. I'm now. Now I've got a new obsession, but I'm think. Okay, I know we got to talk about books, but let me just ask you this last part and then we'll move on. I. Do you watch football? Soccer? Football.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

I do. I do.

[Tracy Thomas]

Who's your team?

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Manchester United.

[Tracy Thomas]

Oh, I'm a city girl myself.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Oh, my God.

[Tracy Thomas]

Sorry about that. But here's my question. Okay.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Okay.

[Tracy Thomas]

So these soccer players, the. The British ones, the ones like, you know, who play for the national team, they sort of transcend this hierarchy or. No, in the uk. No, no, because, like, do you think that people like soccer so much because they get to root for, like, underclasslings? Like, is there something tied to this?

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

No, I. I just think. I just think football, as we call it, is a working class sport now. It's a. There's an insane amount of money in it, so it's like a path to riches and global fame. But it is still predominantly. Those are working class lads. You've seen some Nepo babies. I have a good friend of mine, her son is in the academy system, so really brilliant young football player and he's been signed to a team and she tells me about the inner workings of it. She's just like, yeah, so and so's kid showed up whose dad's a big football player and plays for England. But she's like, like, you know, most of the parents here, they're investing a lot in this trial because they, like, this is our ticket out of, right, you know, the hood. And so I think it's just the national sport and people love it. But, you know, in terms of, like, the class of it, rowing and rugby attract a kind of different profile of person as just cricket, whereas football is still, I would see, I'd say, a game that disproportionately attracts working class lads. And I don't think people root for them because of their cast background. They root for them because it's their team and they love the sport. And unfortunately, we've had moments where, you know, every World cup or Euros, black players aren't treated like everyone else. So it's like, you never try. You know, it still follows.

[Tracy Thomas]

What was that, 2022? It was like the 2020, whatever year that was when all the, like, black players missed.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

I know. And I was like, why did they volunteer? I wouldn't have volunteered, but then maybe that's why.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah, but, like, you know, what, for the race, how about Jack Grealish? Do it just for the culture, you know, go ahead, your turn.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Leave Saka and Rashford out of it, but. No, I don't think that but. And I also think a friend of mine actually recommended a book and I got it from my dad, but I can't remember it now. But it talks about how the corporatization and the amount of capital that entered the Premier League, how it actually changed the game from the ground up and not a good way. And they kind of linked it to like Thatcherism and deregulation, et cetera.

[Tracy Thomas]

Oh my God, I need this book.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Yeah, yeah, I'll find it. I bought it for my dad. I can't remember. I never. I was like, oh, this is a book. I order a lot of books from my dad and make him read them.

[Tracy Thomas]

When you tell me it, we'll link it to it in the show notes so folks can find it too. Okay, we do have to take a break and we have to come back and talk about books.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Okay.

[Tracy Thomas]

New year, new books, same me. I am so excited to bring you guys a whole new batch of great reads, exclusive author interviews and behind the scenes book gossip. But I'm only able to do all of that with your support. Over on Patreon and Substack on Patreon, you can join the Stacks community, the Stacks Pack, where we've got monthly book club meetups, a private discord, a year long mega reading challenge which will help you to achieve your reading goals and branch out in your reading life. Plus you get those bonus episodes. And right now you get access to the Stacks Reading Tracker, which is only available for the Stacks Pack through the end of January. And voting for the Stackies is happening this month too, over on Substack. You can subscribe to my newsletter unstacked, where I keep the bookish conversations going. You're going to get a healthy dose of pop culture over there. At least one hot take, maybe 5,000, I don't know, depends on the week. Plus you get that monthly bonus episode. And listen, if you don't have a few extra dollars to spare right now, I get it. There are free options for both the Patreon and the Substack. But what I want to say is that making this podcast is a huge team effort. And by supporting my Patreon and my substack, you allow me to support the team that makes this show. Without you, there is no podcast. So listen, if you or your friends are looking to meet other book lovers, get back into reading or just support more independent media like this podcast, come hang out with me at patreon.com the stacks to join the stacks pack. And Tracy thomas.substack.com to subscribe to my newsletter or both. I would love to have you the New Year brings so many opportunities for transformation. I'll never forget the day I decided to transform my love of reading into this very podcast. I had the drive, I had the idea. All that was left was taking that crucial first step towards my dream. Once I finally did, there was no looking back. It's time for you to tap into that new year fresh, start energy and transform your passions into your profession. So take your first step with Shopify. Shopify is the key to starting that business you've always dreamed of. This all in one e commerce platform has everything you need to sell online and in person, including hundreds of templates to help you build your online store, help you write headlines and product descriptions, and built in marketing tools to create bespoke email and social campaigns that reach even more customers. Shopify is also built to grow your business, allowing you to handle more orders and expand to new markets all from the same dashboard. Millions of entrepreneurs have already taken the leap. Why not make this the year you do too in 2026? Stop waiting and start selling with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com thestacks go to shopify.com thestacks that's shopify.com thestacks hear your first this new year with Shopify by your side. Okay, we're back. I didn't prep you for this, so sorry. I know you like to prepare, but we do a thing here called Ask the Stacks where somebody writes in and we give them a book recommendation. Okay so this is actually kind of a good one for you because it's about a family. A family reading. So this comes from M and they say on your episode with Kara Brown she recommended reading a book called Some 40 Tales from the Afterlife. Every single member of my family enjoyed it and spent a lot of time stealing my library book so they could read the stories. It is rare to find a book that both my mom, dad and sister all enjoy. My dad is almost exclusively nonfiction, still talks about the writing and A little Devil in America. My mom reads a lot of fiction, historical fiction or mysteries. Recent reads include Northwoods and Anything by Louise Penny. She has read and enjoyed There There and Homegoing. My sister will read almost anything. She loved Martyr and James but also reads nonfiction. Think Miriam Kaba or Healing Resistance by Kazu Haga. I'm thinking maybe another collection of stories is the way to go. I'm open to any and all wrecks. It's kind of hard. It's like a very broad thing. So I can go first because I prepared, obviously. And if you want a few seconds to think about, you can just come up with one. I'm gonna give three recommendations. So my first recommendation is a sort of story collection that feels like nonfiction, but also is maybe a novel. It's very famous. It's Things They Carried by Tim o', Brien, which is about. He was, he served in Vietnam. And then this book is sort of his like fictionalization of what that was like. It's taught in schools a lot. I am really am caught, like thinking a lot about your dad in this because I feel like dads are often the sticking point.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

And I feel like this is such a dad book. But I remember reading in high school and loving it and there's a lot to talk about. So that's my first pick. My second pick is a short story collection that I just love. We did it here on the podcast. I love this author. It's a Friday Black by Nana Kwame Ajay Brenya, which is sort of a dystopian story collection about race and capitalism in the world. And like there's the first story is called the Finkelstein Five, and it's about this guy who kills five children with five black children with a chainsaw. And it's like this whole, there's, it's just, it's fantastic. And then my third pick is nothing that you asked for. But I think this would be a good family book, which is There Is no Place for Us by Brian Goldstone, which is about the working hard homeless in the United States. It's a class of people who work full time jobs but are still unable to secure and afford housing in the United States. It's so good. It's so depressing. But like worth reading. If you've read Evicted, it sort of falls in that world. And I love the book. So those are my three wrecks.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Okay.

[Tracy Thomas]

What do you got for us, Christiana.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

In terms of a story collection that I think the family will enjoy based on the vibe I'm getting this Thing Around My Neck by Chimamanda Adechi. I think it'll be great for everyone. Secondly, I'd say the Family Dynamic by Susan Dominus, which is a story of sibling success. It's just, it's a great work of journalism. And she profiles a few families with siblings who are successful and in different ways. And there's an Asian family. There's a Black family, there's a white family, like, different racial backgrounds. And she just, like, has a lot of data and journalism and research and talks about how do parents manage to have siblings who are successful. But then also in all of these stories, as normally a man, a brother who, like, is really successful and something happens to him and it kind of unends, like, unravels a story the family is telling themselves. And I think it's a good book for families to read, especially intergenerational, because it will impact how you look at your sibling, how your sibling looks at you, and how your parents look to how they raise you. And it goes beyond like, oh, you know, sibling rivalry. There's lots of books about that. But yeah, it was a book I really enjoyed, as you can, as a mother who wants to have children who get on as adults that are hopefully successful. So that's the book I would recommend. And then I'd say the God of Small Things. I think it's a type of meditation that maybe the more woo woo parts of this family might enjoy.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah, I love that. That's so good. People at home. If you want to have a book recommendation read on air, email, Ask the Stacks atthestacks podcast.com. all right, Christiana, you are now officially in the Stacks. Book hot seat. Two books you love, one book you hate.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Okay, I've got my thing here.

[Tracy Thomas]

Got her notes. We love a prepared person.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

The Warmth of Other Songs by Isabel Wilkerson. I think it's probably one of the most important books of the last century. Like, oh, my gosh, incredible.

[Tracy Thomas]

Preaching to the choir. Love that book.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Fates and Furies by Lauren Goff. Oh, have you read that one?

[Tracy Thomas]

I've never read it. I have it. I got it somewhere in the blue.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

My head spun in the Furies portion of the. Anyway, yeah, it's just. It's a great book and it's a novel that I think about a lot. I reference it. I think about it a lot when I'm writing a script. And I want a twist and a subtle twist and a twist that people will go back and watch the episode and be like, oh, that was the clue. So, yeah, those are the two. Hate is a really strong word.

[Tracy Thomas]

Lean into it.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

I think that the books of the Bible attributed to Paul because I think Pauline theology has been really bad for women.

[Tracy Thomas]

Oh, say more. I know nothing about the Bible.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Oh, that's great. Do you know what? My husband, who's an atheist, considered it, considers it one of the classical texts. So it's a good texture, I think it is, yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

I went to Catholic school, but I was raised Jewish.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Okay.

[Tracy Thomas]

And so I know a little bit, but I don't.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Do you know more about the Talmud and the Torah?

[Tracy Thomas]

No, we weren't really religious. I'm from the Bay Area, I'm from Oakland. And you know, my dad was a lot older than my mom and so he kind of was like, he was, you know, he was like woke before woke was a thing. He would always talk about how his mom was a Baptist and he had to go to church and he'd look up there and see a blonde haired, blue eyed Jesus. And he was like, this just can't be it. You know, like he was always on some shit and my mom was like sort of culturally Jewish and we went to Catholic school because that's like what was affordable. But our Catholic school was more non Catholic than Catholic. So like I'm familiar with the broad strokes of the texts. Yeah, I know there's an Old and a New Testament, like there's, you know, I know Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat, the musical. So like if there's a musical about it, if there's like been something. I know, but I couldn't tell you what is Paul versus like.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

So I would say, I wouldn't say. And I hate is not the, the, the. And that's why I don't like the. My mom's gonna be like, how can you say you hate the Bible? Which is because I actually like one of my other questions actually bigging up something Paul said. So like I just, I think so much of a book, the experience of writing a book is like this kind of. There's living in the mind of the author and then it exists on the page and it's the life the book takes when it's in the world which the author has no control over. And I think some of the Pauline theology I have, you know, I wrestle.

[Tracy Thomas]

With it a lot, my own Pauline theology. Like what is, you know, there's a.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Lot of like self aggravation, there's a lot of self loathing, there's always a lot like, you know, the man's ahead of the women. Be silent. And I just, I didn't like it. I don't like how it's, I don't like how the text is deconstructed and how it. And how it's wielded and I just don't know. And so I'm just like, oh, I hate it. Rather than, you know. But it's also a sign of Good books that thousands of years later we're sitting on a podcast talking about it, what some bloke wrote.

[Tracy Thomas]

So, yeah, okay, so what kind of reader are you now and then do you have, like, types of genres that you love or that you avoid?

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Oh, my God. I read constantly. I like, wake up reading. One of my best friends, she says, you read so I don't have to. People say to me, like, I think I'm the person that people kind of outsource their reading to. I think, yes. So, yeah, I read every day. And it may be a book, but it may be a piece of feature writing. You know, I'm constantly reading. I read a lot.

[Tracy Thomas]

And where do you read? Like, do you read in bed? Do you read on the couch? Do you have snacks and beverages? Like, what is. If you were going to have your ideal day, your kids are away, you get to just sit down and read. What does that look like for you?

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Oh, my God. Well, if my kids are away, I'm probably going to go and get like my chin laser. I'm going to try to get my.

[Tracy Thomas]

Okay, well, you're. Your kids are away, but the deal is you have to read while they're gone.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

So. My husband is very much like, he likes the physical book in his hand. I move across mediums, so especially when I'm prepping for an episode of the podcast or something, I'm going to write on substack. Sometimes I'll have the audiobook in my car. I'll have the Kindle highlights on my laptop, on my phone, and then I'll have the physical book as well. But I think because of I read so much in bed. On my side, instead of doom scrolling, I jump to the Kindle app. It'd probably be like me laying in the bed. There's a cup of tea or coffee next to me and I'm like highlighting and swiping. That sounds like a great day to me.

[Tracy Thomas]

Okay, I love this. And what about genres? Are there any kinds of books that you don't read or.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Yeah, what am I in this group chat? My politics career. I'm going to pick them up. You and Srina and Abby, right? I'm not going to say which one of them it is, but people listening figure it out. One of us reads all these smart books and their premises are insane. It's like a demon dragon with a big dick has a threesome with what is this? But if smart's the thing, I just can't do. But I love that my friend reads all the smart because she always. She's like, I'm reading this smart novella. And then there's a really big book this year. I can't remember the name. I think it was like a version of not Twilight, but one of these other.

[Tracy Thomas]

Fourth. Fourth Wing.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

I think it's that it started off as fan fiction. The authors. The. No, the author's non binary Asian. And it's like, it's a mega hit. And then. And my friend was reading it and I think it started as Smile. So anyway, she. She's crying all the time. I'm like, what is. What are these books? But I won't read them. But they're really important because millennial women are really into smut.

[Tracy Thomas]

They're so into it. I can't get into it either. But there's so many people who listen to this podcast who are very into smut, and I just.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

I can't. It's important. It's culturally. It's pop. Culturally important. And my friend is like, you need to do a smut episode. And I'm like, yeah, but then I would have to read the stuff.

[Tracy Thomas]

You have to read it. I'm like, but you should do one. If anyone's going to take on smut, I feel like it should be you. What if it like converted you and you became like a smut head or whatever?

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Oh, my God. I just. The thought of it is so. I actually love the fact that my friend reads all this smut because she is very, very proper English girl. So it's just, it's. It's unexpected, it's like a twist. But I think I'm more curious about why women are into smart outside of like the sexual desire and the fantasy. Because I think women consume smut in is like in an analog way to like, men consuming porn. Like, I'd be interested in, like the overlap. And then I actually admire the fact that men. Women would rather read about their sexual fantasy than just like, I'm going to go on pornhub and like, just get whatever I get. I feel like reading takes more effort, but, you know. Yeah, I just can't get into it myself. I just. There's a lot of other things to read.

[Tracy Thomas]

I'm with you.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

What's the last great book you read?

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Oh, what's the last great book? Obviously, I think Girl on Girl is a great book and it's one of the last ones I read, but I really enjoyed the Empire of Normality, Neurodiversity and Capitalism by Robert Chapman, and it talks about the history of like the psychiatric, not just system, but the, it's trying to justify itself to be seen as real medicine. And what happens when that happens and our loss of asylums and how we treat autism and neurodivergence and the kind of definitional creep that we have. Like, you know, everyone seems to have adhd, everyone seems to have autism. Autism. And like why that is, I don't want to spoil it, but it's such a thoughtful book. And Robert, he, he speaks about his limitations of analysis. He's like, I'm white, but also had a neurodivergent himself, but grew up working class and talks about contending with those medical systems that make it harder for some populations to receive diagnosis. And, but he doesn't have the blind spots. He's like, it's harder for black women. It's harder. And I just, it's, it's a great reading because it's like how much of it is new neurodivergence and how much of this is just capitalism outside of like the, you know, there is a spectrum outside of like severe disability where you're kind of like non verbal and have real sensory processing difficulties. There's kind of this, this middle amorphous area that has become highly medicalized. Even though these drugs, whether they treat depression or anxiety or adhd, they have real limitations and medicine in any situation can only do so much. And it's about, we're trying to fix the individual but really we need to maybe look at our, a wider world where so many people have these maladaptive responses and it's the problem isn't the people often the problem is the world. So that's a, that's a good one.

[Tracy Thomas]

Sounds so good.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Yeah, it's a good one.

[Tracy Thomas]

How do you, how do you pick your next book? Like, do you, are you online? Are you reading reviews? Are you asking friends? Are you just going to the bookstore or the library?

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

I don't like, I don't take book recommendations because if I don't like it, I'm going to be annoyed with you. So everyone knows sometimes people tell me to read books on their behalf because they like, outside they're like, can you read this? Right, yeah, can you read it and tell me if it's worth it? And being the eldest daughter that I am, I'm like, sure, sure, I'll do that for you. Like, I don't have anything else to do. So I don't, I don't like recommendations. I love reading books written by women. I read a lot of books written by women. So I'm always curious about. I'll read, like, you know, New York Times reviews and New Yorker reviews. And I'm always looking on my timeline for the people I follow like to read as well. And sometimes people will DM me and say, like, check this out, or so and so's books coming out, so. But I kind of just find things myself, so. Yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

Do you set any reading goals for yourself?

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

No, I probably should read less, honestly. My husband's like, you're always reading. My mom is like, you've learned this thing from me, always reading. I read all the time. So, no, I'm happy. I think I could probably read less because I think if I read less, I could sit with the books I do enjoy more. Does that make sense? I always feel like I'm like, going through and I'm like, oh, but that was great. I wish I could have savored it a bit more.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah, that's. I feel this. I mean, obviously, if reading is your job, it's like, yeah, of course it's.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Completely different for you, but, like.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah, right. But I think it's a similar thing where it's like, I wish I had more time to, like, sit. Like, I'm at the. You know, it's the end of the year as we're recording this, and all these end of year lists are coming out, and I'm like, can I. Like, I should be reading 20, 26 books.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Yeah, yeah. You get the galley copies and all of that.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yes. But now I'm like, I gotta go back and watch read. Like, was that book actually that good? Like, I need to know because I need to have an opinion about this book because it's the best book of the year. So I'm really.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

I know. And it feels like there's. There's always books coming out. There's so many books coming.

[Tracy Thomas]

I mean, can you see this? These are all my 20, 25 books.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Jesus. Yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

So nothing on my shelf. Very few things on my shelf behind me are actually from this year. They're all older because I just. It's like I have to keep them in these little piles. What's a book that you like? What's like a go to recommendation that you like to give?

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

I mean, I always, like. I always come back to wants of other sons. I always come back to that book. And. But right now I'm recommending a lot Amy LaRocca's how to Be well recommending that. Oh, yeah, you need to read that. She actually comes on my show. But I actually invited on the show after reading the book and it's like I'm a real wellness girly. I'm very crunchy and very woo woo, you know, do all the cleanses and there is not a supplement I don't have. I do it all. Okay. Like it gets a bit crazy. And that book I felt really seen and it was, it's a real interrogation of this kind of multi billion dollar wellness empire and how it's targeting women and why women get pulled into it. And it's because it like, you know, we're not well and the doctors aren't responding to us. And I felt especially as a black woman, you know, black community. We had Dr. Sebi, like we have a real antagonistic relationship with the medical, mainstream medical establishment because of how it treats us historically and currently. And my grandparents were very much like on my father's side. They were like, we don't touch the medicine and they live pretty long. But they were just very like, you know, into their brews and like a lot of what I'd call like they'd call herbal medicine. But it was just, you know, being in Nigeria, there's just, there's plant medicine. You know, it's just like people know what to use. And so that was already in my family and but reading that book, I saw how I'd been sucked into the capitalism of it all. But I can't get out. I'm stuck. But I recommend it to all my friends.

[Tracy Thomas]

Okay, I'm. Now I'm gonna read it. Yeah, well, because I've just decided we're friends, so don't mind me recommendation. Do you have a favorite bookstore?

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

I think it's the biggest bookstore in the world. If I'm not the one on Charing Crossroad. I love Foyles. Reminds me of my father. Some of like the best days of my dad. I used to go to chapels on Bond street for my keyboard classes. And then we'd walk over to, we'd go to Foyles afterwards and I get to pick a book and whenever I needed a textbook or something like that, we'd like go to Foyles. Go to Foyles. And it's just so idiosyncratic. I, I love Foyles and it makes me feel like home and like there's people like grabbing books in the corner and just sitting and reading and the stairs up. Yeah, Foyles is my favorite bookstore, but I also want to shout out Cafe con Libras in Brooklyn, which is.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yes, we love them. Okay. What's the. What's the last book that made you laugh?

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Oh, Jeff Hiller's memoir. Actress of a Certain Age. That. That is like. It's funny. It's funny.

[Tracy Thomas]

What is the last book that made you cry?

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Jeff Hiller's memoir. There's a section when he talks about his experiences in church and how he's come to understand God and faith. And it. I felt it. And he's come to a lot of peace about it. That. The piece that maybe I don't have, but I was like, oh, wow. Like, it was. It was great. And before that, it was sing Unburied. Sing. It just. I don't know, I just was like. It was. I was just. I can't even even remember the. The part, but it was just. There was something very moving about that book and how you're taken on this journey and I cried.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah. What about the last book that made you angry?

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Oh, I don't read anything that makes me angry.

[Tracy Thomas]

Really? For no. For no reason. Like, sometimes I read something and I hate it and it makes me angry. Sometimes I read something and like, the information and it makes me, like, hate the system.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

I'm generally like an angry person. So I can't, like, I can't explain that with books. Yes. I'm like, I' oh, click off.

[Tracy Thomas]

No. Yeah. What's the last book you read where you felt like you learned a lot?

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

The family dynamic. I'd say that's Susan Germanous book. I learned a lot in that book.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah. What's a book that brings you joy?

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

So you know why it's interesting? Because I don't rock with Paul. And it was linked to the book I. Books I kind of hated. But the book of Philippians always gives me joy. It's got some of my favorite, like, meditations and scriptures in there. Like, the things I use to, like, encourage myself and encourage my children and the things that my parents used to encourage me. So, yeah, you know, Paul, I'd say book I don't like that much, but also the book I like.

[Tracy Thomas]

So the book of Philippians, Philippians and Philippians.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

How do you say the book of Philippians?

[Tracy Thomas]

Is Philippians in the book of Paul?

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

No, the Philippians is in the New Testament. Now I'm being Sunday school teacher.

[Tracy Thomas]

I'm like, really?

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Do you see me?

[Tracy Thomas]

I'm like, is this a new language that I'm learning?

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

No. So there's the Old Testament and the New Testament, and Philippians is one of the books in the New Testament. And yeah, it's a book that I return to. And I often. Whenever something strict scripture comes to mind, it tends to be from Philippians. So, yeah, it gives me joy.

[Tracy Thomas]

Is there any book that you're embarrassed that you like?

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

No. No, I'm not. I'm actually very anti that kind of, like, elitism when it comes to, like, being like. I'm embarrassed because first and foremost, I think it. When somebody writes a book, they have devoted a portion of their life and their time to doing it. And, you know, my dad is very big on time. My parents are like, if someone gives you your time or they waste their time, time is a thing you can never get back. So I think you're honoring that time. And that is a very noble thing to, like, sit and read a book. You're like, that's really noble thing. And whatever the material, I just. I'm just like, should be embarrassed. Like, why is reading embarrassing? Like, I. I can't know.

[Tracy Thomas]

Is there any book that you're sort of embarrassed that you still haven't read?

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

No, I don't buy into that white people thing of a canon. There is no canon. Just, you know, it's like everyone has different lived experiences. Like. Yeah, because it's just like, the reason for somebody not have having read a book that is seen as culturally important sometimes is because of nothing they did. Maybe you didn't go to a school where you, you know, the education system is what. It wasn't what people consider as good. Or maybe you don't have the time. Maybe you were sick. Like, so. No, there's. It just when it's supposed to happen. I believe in, like, divine alignment and timing. Timing when the book is supposed to be in my life and in my spirit, it will come to me. If I haven't read it yet, I'm not supposed to have it. So I love this. No, no embarrassment. Okay.

[Tracy Thomas]

What about the book you would assign if you were a high school teacher?

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

So it's a book called the Twittering Machine by Richard Seymour, and it got mixed reviews. I think the reviews were being. They were hating. I really enjoyed it because after I read the Twittering Machine, it really did change my relationship with the Internet, even though I still use it too much. But I think that will teach high school students who I think spend a lot of time on their phones and are using, you know, laptops and things way more than we ever did when we were in school, that there are big tech companies behind this technology and these websites and these apps that you use, and their incentive is to keep you on there as long as possible. And they are actually morally neutral in the sense that they do not care if what you consume is good or bad. They just want to keep you there. And I think high school students really need to understand that, because they're about to go out into the world whether go to college or whether work. And they're probably going to spend less time reading after you leave high school. Right. Like, there's lots of data that shows that, like, reading Plumnets, even if you go to college, the amount of reading you do in college in comparison to what you've done between five and 18, like, just shrinks. And so most of what you are going to read is going to be on your phone. And I think the Twittering Machine is a book that did change my relationship with my phone. And so I think it'll be good for that. Students. Yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

Okay, last one. If you could require the current president of the United States to read one book, what would you want it to be?

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

The One Pill. Other Sons. I think reading that book, there's a line in there where it said that I'm gonna quote it really badly, but okay. Wilkerson talks about how African Americans are the only people that had to become immigrants in their own country in order to, like, achieve success. And, you know, the story of the great migration. And I think there is a way that we conceive of not just immigrants, but people that have to travel for work. And there's a way that the black American contribution to America has been diminished. And they are so foundational. Without them, none of this exists. And I decided to. Every president, I think every president needs to have a deep respect for black Americans and their contributions and their sacrifice and their courage. Like the Story of the great. The reason I was just taken by the book is because of the courage shown by everybody in that book that went on that journey from the south elsewhere.

[Tracy Thomas]

I love that book so much.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Yes.

[Tracy Thomas]

Okay, we're done today. But, everyone, I want to remind you that Christiana will be back on Wednesday, January 28th, for our discussion of Girl on Girl by Sophie Gilbert. So read the book with us, and you're gonna. We're in for a treat. You're in for a treat. Christiana, thank you so much for being here.

[Christiana Mbaque Medina]

Oh, my God, this has been so good. Thank you for having me. Yay.

[Tracy Thomas]

And everyone else, we will see you in the stacks. All right, y', all, thank you so much for listening. And thank you again to Christiana for joining the show. I'd also like to say a huge thank you to Kalia Tyson for helping to make this episode possible. Our book club pick for January is Girl on Girl How Pop Culture Turned a Generation of Girls Against Themselves by Sophie Gilbert. Christiana will be back on Wednesday, January 28th to discuss this book with us. If you love the Stacks if you want inside access to it, head to patreon.com thestax to join the stacks pack and check out my newsletter at tracythomas substack.com make sure you're subscribed to the Stacks wherever you listen to your podcasts and if you're listening through Apple Podcasts or Spotify, please leave us a rating and a review. For more from the Stacks, follow us on social media, Hestax Pod on Instagram, Threads and TikTok. And now you can also find us on YouTube and you can can check out our [e-mail]. this episode of the Stacks was edited by Christian Duenas with production assistance from Sahara Clement and Cherie Marquez. Our theme music is from Tagirajis. The Stax is created and produced by me, Tracy Thomas.