The Stacks - Unabridged Episode: Poptimism in the Age of Beyoncé with Sam Sanders
Release Date: May 16, 2025
In this exclusive bonus episode of The Stacks podcast, host Traci Thomas engages in a lively and candid conversation with Sam Sanders, a seasoned podcaster known for co-hosting the Vibe Check podcast and hosting his own show. The duo delves into their recent experience attending the Cowboy Carter World Tour concert, exploring their thoughts on stadium tours, and navigating the complexities of literary awards, specifically the Pulitzer Prize controversy surrounding Percival Everett's James. This episode is a blend of humor, insightful commentary, and fervent discussions that encapsulate the dynamic spirit of both hosts.
1. Introduction to the Episode and Guests
The episode kicks off with Traci introducing Sam Sanders without a formal introduction, highlighting their longstanding friendship and frequent collaborations. Traci briefly touches upon Sam's roles, including his involvement with Vibe Check, his own podcast, and his recent appointment as a judge for the Tribeca Audio Awards.
Traci Thomas [00:00]: "This is Sam and Tracy at our most chaotic best."
Sam humorously downplays his new judging role, emphasizing the additional workload it entails.
Sam Sanders [02:04]: "It's just more work... they want to judge? Which is great."
2. Navigating Podcast Judging and Responsibilities
Traci and Sam discuss the responsibilities that come with being a podcast judge for Tribeca. Sam reveals the minimal nature of the task, humorously comparing it to Traci's experience with the Pulitzer Prize, where she faced the daunting task of evaluating 144 books.
Sam Sanders [03:07]: "I am plotting a little quick Vegas trip with a friend for later this month. That will be our homework for the drive."
Traci contrasts this with the intense scrutiny and extensive reading required for the Pulitzer committee, highlighting the challenges judges face in maintaining objectivity and dedication.
3. The Pulitzer Prize Controversy: Percival Everett's James
A significant portion of the conversation centers around the recent Pulitzer Prize drama involving Percival Everett's novel James. Traci recounts the controversy where the Pulitzer board added a fourth nominee, ultimately awarding the prize to James despite initial reservations from the committee head, Merv Emre.
Traci Thomas [06:47]: "Merv was like, I cannot handle the fact that we failed. So I'm going to talk shit about the board / Percival."
Sam and Traci critique the decision-making process, questioning the legitimacy and motivations behind adding a male author to a shortlist initially comprised entirely of female authors.
Sam Sanders [09:03]: "Also the book is really good. And he did something remarkable."
Traci defends James, emphasizing Percival Everett's illustrious career and the book's commercial success, which she believes deserved the Pulitzer recognition.
Traci Thomas [13:24]: "Percival Everett's writing is good enough for the Oscars, I think it's also good enough for the Pulitzers."
The duo also touches upon the lack of diversity in Pulitzer winners over the past two decades, noting that James is one of the few black authors to receive such an honor recently.
4. Reflections on Literary Awards and Diversity
Traci and Sam delve deeper into the implications of the Pulitzer controversy, discussing the broader issues of diversity and representation in literary awards. Traci points out the historical gender imbalance among Pulitzer winners and criticizes the committee's handling of the James nomination.
Traci Thomas [08:00]: "The three books that were originally finalists were all by women. And so then people tried to be like, they brought a man in, blah, blah, blah."
Sam adds his perspective on the situation, advocating for the recognition of James based on its merit rather than succumbing to identity politics.
Sam Sanders [09:36]: "You should just be encouraging the reading of the books and the books that were written, and they're all good and hooray, please buy some fucking books."
5. The Impact of James and Percival Everett’s Legacy
Celebrating Percival Everett's accomplishments, Traci highlights his extensive literary career and the significance of James being adapted into an Oscar-winning screenplay.
Sam Sanders [12:46]: "Percival Everett's writing is good enough for the Oscars, I think it's also good enough for the Pulitzers."
Traci underscores Everett's influence in literature, dispelling misconceptions about his work being merely commercial and affirming his status as a pioneering writer.
Traci Thomas [14:14]: "He's one of our literary greats... he's a career writer."
6. Concert Experience: Cowboy Carter World Tour
Shifting gears, Traci and Sam recount their experiences attending the Cowboy Carter World Tour concert. They discuss the excitement of seeing Beyoncé perform, the energy of the stadium setting, and share anecdotes from the event.
Traci Thomas [14:28]: "Sam and I saw Cowboy Carter Night 2 here in Los Angeles the night she brought out..."
Sam humorously mentions the chaotic nature of organizing a last-minute podcast episode due to the event's impact.
Sam Sanders [11:18]: "We saw her at her talk at LA Times Festival of Books. She was like, when are we going out for drinks again?"
The conversation reflects their enthusiasm for live performances and the cultural significance of Beyoncé's influence in music and beyond.
7. Closing Remarks and Community Engagement
As the episode nears its conclusion, Traci encourages listeners to subscribe to the podcast's Patreon or Substack for full access to the bonus content. She highlights the benefits of joining the community, including access to exclusive episodes, a virtual book club, and other perks.
Traci Thomas [15:00]: "If you were liking what you were hearing, you can listen to the entire episode by going to either patreon.com the stacks and joining the Stacks Pack..."
Sam and Traci end on a light-hearted note, planning future interactions and reinforcing their commitment to fostering a vibrant literary and cultural community.
Notable Quotes
- Traci Thomas [04:20]: "So in the fiction category, I believe the head of the committee said they read over 600 books."
- Sam Sanders [05:23]: "They whittled it down. And actually..."
- Traci Thomas [09:03]: "Also the book is really good. And he did something remarkable."
- Traci Thomas [13:24]: "Percival Everett's writing is good enough for the Oscars, I think it's also good enough for the Pulitzers."
Conclusion
This episode of The Stacks - Unabridged offers an engaging blend of music, literature, and candid discussions on industry practices. Traci and Sam provide listeners with an in-depth look at the dynamics of literary awards, the importance of meritocracy in recognizing outstanding work, and the vibrant energy of live music events. Whether you're a regular listener or new to the podcast, this episode delivers valuable insights and entertaining banter that underscore the profound impact of books and music on our cultural landscape.