The Stacks Podcast: Unabridged Episode Summary Episode: Remaining Human with Kiese Laymon
Host: Traci Thomas
Guest: Kiese Laymon
Release Date: April 18, 2025

1. Welcome and Reintroduction

In this special Unabridged episode exclusively for Patreon and Substack subscribers, host Traci Thomas welcomes returning guest Kiese Laymon. They reminisce about their previous conversations and the growth they've experienced over the past five years since Kiese's first appearance on the podcast.

Notable Quote:

Traci Thomas [02:25]: "I think the last time we talked on the podcast would have been like, two years... This year, 2025 marks five years from your first episode."

2. Kiese Laymon’s New Children’s Book: City Summer, Country Summer

Kiese Laymon delves into his latest endeavor—a children's picture book titled City Summer, Country Summer. The inspiration struck when the New York Times commissioned him to write essays accompanying photographer Andre Wagner's portraits of Black boys in New York City during the summer. Laymon transformed these essays into a narrative exploring themes of collectivity, safety, and environmental degradation.

Notable Quote:

Kiese Laymon [05:54]: "I wrote this story about this kid who comes down from New York and this other kid in Mississippi. I was just trying to play with these ideas of, like, I and we and they and, you know, collectivity and safeness..."

3. Collaboration with Alexis Franklin

Laymon discusses his collaboration with artist Alexis Franklin, whose vibrant and visionary artwork brought his narrative to life. Initially faced with challenges in finding the right illustrator, Laymon praises Franklin for not only her stunning visuals but also her ability to enhance the story by introducing additional elements, such as a third boy and more uplifting representations of the gardens.

Notable Quote:

Kiese Laymon [07:12]: "Alexis added her style in. And I know you'll feel this, but after heavy and because we were fucking in the pandemic... I wanted to be led. And Alexis Franklin let, you know, she let. She led, and I followed."

4. Leadership and Creative Direction

The conversation shifts to personal leadership styles, with both Traci and Kiese expressing a desire to be led creatively. They share anecdotes about their experiences in roles where they took charge versus times they preferred others to guide them, highlighting the balance between having creative control and being open to collaborative input.

Notable Quotes:

Traci Thomas [05:22]: "We'll talk about how the hell are we remaining human in the world."

Kiese Laymon [08:45]: "You tell us the wrong thing. I quit. Fuck you. Bye."

5. Sensitivity in the Creative Process

Traci introduces a critical discussion inspired by her conversation with Randy Winston about authors' sensitivity. She laments that modern authors may be too delicate, lacking the resilience required to incorporate real-time feedback effectively—a trait she believes other artists, like dancers and directors, naturally possess.

Notable Quote:

Traci Thomas [11:49]: "I feel like authors have gotten soft a little bit because they don't get enough real-time feedback."

Kiese responds by acknowledging the complexity of balancing sensitivity with maintaining a political edge in writing. He emphasizes the importance of selective feedback, arguing that excessive editorial input can dilute the dynamism of a writer's work, especially for those with a strong political voice.

Notable Quote:

Kiese Laymon [12:05]: "We are precious. And a whole lot of writers in this country don't have fucking political edges. But those of us who do... we just want to write our art without being told to soften our edges."

6. Balancing Feedback and Artistic Integrity

The dialogue deepens as they explore the tension between accepting necessary feedback and preserving artistic integrity. Kiese highlights the challenges faced by writers who wish to maintain their unique voices without succumbing to overbearing editorial demands, especially in mediums like TV and film that prioritize commercial viability over creative expression.

Notable Quote:

Kiese Laymon [13:30]: "When you get 15 people in on something, you get an editorial. And an editorial, usually writerly wise, is going to be less lackluster in terms of like, dynamic shit."

7. Personal Reflections and Industry Insights

Both hosts share personal reflections on their professional journeys, discussing past roles and the lessons learned about leadership, collaboration, and the creative process. They offer insights into the publishing industry's expectations and the importance of maintaining one's voice amidst external pressures.

Notable Quote:

Traci Thomas [09:29]: "I would love to have someone just take the blame for my family."

8. Conclusion and Teaser for Full Episode

As the episode progresses, Traci hints at deeper discussions reserved for subscribers, encouraging listeners to join their Patreon or Substack communities to access the complete conversation. While this summary covers the key themes and insights shared in the available transcript, the full episode promises an even more comprehensive exploration of Kiese Laymon's work and perspectives.

Final Thoughts: This episode of The Stacks offers a profound glimpse into Kiese Laymon's creative process, his latest literary endeavors, and the broader discourse on authorial sensitivity in today's political and cultural landscape. Through candid conversation and reflective insights, Traci Thomas and Kiese Laymon engage listeners in a meaningful dialogue about remaining authentic and human in an ever-evolving world.

For those eager to delve deeper, subscribing to The Stacks on Patreon or Substack is recommended to access the complete episode and join a community of passionate readers and thinkers.