Podcast Summary: The Stacks Unabridged – The Art of Oral History with Garrett M. Graff
Host: Traci Thomas
Guest: Garrett M. Graff
Release Date: August 22, 2025
Overview
In this special “Unabridged” bonus episode of The Stacks, host Traci Thomas sits down with acclaimed journalist and bestselling author Garrett M. Graff for an in-depth conversation about the craft and significance of oral history. Graff, celebrated for works such as The Only Plane in the Sky (about 9/11), When the Sea Came Alive (about D-Day), and his new book The Devil Reached Toward the Sky (about the Manhattan Project and atomic bomb), shares how he discovered the power of oral history, how it preserves the nuance of lived experience, and why its relevance is growing as moments from recent and distant pasts slip from living memory into the historical record.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Introduction & Guest Background
- Traci recalls her first interview with Garrett in 2019, describing their journey from acquaintances to friends in the literary world.
- She provides context on Graff’s diverse career: magazine journalism, narrative nonfiction, and traditional nonfiction books.
- (02:48) “Garrett, welcome back to The Stacks.”
- (02:50) “[Garrett] wrote the oral history of D Day. He wrote the oral History of 9/11, and his latest book is called The Devil Reached Toward the Sky, an oral history of the making and unleashing of the Atomic Bomb.” – Traci
2. Discovering Oral History as a Form
- Garrett traces his fascination with oral history to reading Pamela Colloff’s oral history on the UT Austin tower shooting in Texas Monthly.
- Prior knowledge of Studs Terkel and oral history existed, but Colloff’s piece was a galvanizing moment.
- (03:51) “I became sort of fascinated by oral history… Pamela Koloff… had done an oral history of the UT Austin tower shooting… I just remember it was my first real exposure to the form… wow, this is an incredible way to tell a story.” – Garrett
- Shares his failed early attempt at an oral history of Ted Kennedy for the Boston Globe—emphasizing the challenge and uniqueness of the craft.
3. Breakthrough: 9/11 Oral History and Its Impact
- The idea for an Air Force One oral history on 9/11 took shape for the 15th anniversary, leading him to interview over two dozen insiders, from the crew to top White House officials.
- (06:05) “I went out and interviewed… people who had been aboard Air Force One. …The piece ran for the 15th anniversary in 2016 and was the most successful piece I have ever done.” – Garrett
- Vividly recounts the powerful reader reactions that inspired the transition from article to book:
- (07:25) “One was a young mother… She said… she had printed out my article to set it aside so that [her kids] could read it… The other was from another veteran… he had never understood before reading the article why 9/11 meant what it did to the country.”
- Graff highlights how the "official" story of 9/11—neat, simplified, tidy—is both true and deeply inadequate at conveying the lived chaos and trauma of the actual day.
- (09:58) “[The] story that we tell of 9/11, like the version that we teach in history class… is an entirely factually true sentence, but one that, if you were old enough to remember 9/11, does not in any way capture or reflect the day that those of us remember living that day.” – Garrett
4. Preserving Memory as It Slips into History
- With new generations entering adulthood after 9/11 and World War II, Graff emphasizes the urgency of capturing oral histories before primary sources disappear.
- (11:03) “911 was just beginning to slip from living memory into history. And to me, there was this power that oral history could deliver… in the voices and the footsteps and the lives of the people who experienced it when they didn't know what was happening around them.” – Garrett
- Discusses his motivation to move from 9/11 to World War II stories, highlighting the transition of pivotal historical events from lived experience to historical abstraction.
5. Defining Oral History
- Before the episode preview cuts off, Traci asks Garrett to define oral history for listeners unfamiliar with the form, emphasizing its difference from traditional narrative nonfiction.
- (12:16) “I love oral history… But I was talking to a friend about your books… and they were like, ‘What’s oral history?’ So will you… tell people… what is oral history and what if, what if any defining features it has.” – Traci
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- (03:51, Garrett) “I just remember reading that piece and being like, ‘wow, this is an incredible way to tell a story.’”
- (07:38, Garrett) “Those letters very specifically, sort of encouraged me… to write 9/11 as an oral history.”
- (09:58, Garrett) “That is an entirely factually true sentence, but one that… does not in any way capture or reflect the day that those of us remember living that day.”
- (11:03, Garrett) “…There was this power that oral history could deliver… voices and the footsteps and the lives of the people who experienced it when they didn’t know what was happening around them.”
- (12:16, Traci) “Pretend like I asked this question first, because that’s what a good interviewer would do and tell people… what is oral history and… defining features.”
Important Timestamps
- [02:45] – Garrett joins the conversation; intro and background
- [03:51] – Discovery of oral history & early influences
- [06:05] – 2016 Air Force One 9/11 oral history; success and impact
- [07:25] – Reader responses and inspiration for the 9/11 book
- [09:58] – On the insufficiency of textbook history
- [11:03] – The urgency of capturing voices before they disappear
- [12:16] – Explaining the definition and features of oral history
Tone and Style
The conversation is personal, enthusiastic, and accessible. Traci’s warmth and genuine curiosity shine through, while Garrett offers reflective, candid accounts of his journey as a journalist and an oral historian. The episode balances the analytic with the emotional, underscoring both the technical aspects of building oral histories and their deep, enduring human relevance.
Conclusion
This episode explores the emergence and importance of oral history in capturing the nuance of pivotal events as they recede from living memory. Through examples from his own work and reflections on why the first-person account matters, Garrett M. Graff and Traci Thomas create an illuminating conversation for anyone interested in storytelling, history, and the preservation of lived experience.
To hear more—including Garrett’s formal definition of oral history and further discussion about its craft—listeners are encouraged to subscribe to The Stacks’ Patreon or Substack.