Unabridged: We’re in a Gender Straitjacket with Emily St. James

Summary

The Stacks Podcast: Unabridged Episode Summary Host: Traci Thomas | Guest: Emily St. James | Release Date: March 21, 2025

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1. Introduction

In this bonus episode of The Stacks Unabridged, host Traci Thomas welcomes Emily St. James, a cultural critic, TV writer, journalist, and debut novelist. The conversation centers around Emily's newly released novel Woodworking, as well as broader discussions on trans rights, representation, and the intersection of pop culture and politics.

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2. Emily St. James' Debut Novel: Woodworking

Synopsis and Themes

Emily introduces her novel Woodworking, describing it as a story about a trans woman who comes out to herself at the age of 35 in Mitchell, South Dakota—a small town of 15,000 people. The protagonist's journey becomes more complex as she forms an unlikely friendship with a 17-year-old trans girl, one of her high school students. Together, they find themselves entangled in a local election for a state senate seat, set against the backdrop of the 2016 election year.

Emily St. James [02:24]: "Woodworking is about a trans woman who comes out to herself at the age of 35, but she lives in Mitchell, South Dakota... It's about the unlikely friendship that sort of emerges from there and then also how they both get roped into a local election for a state senate seat."

Setting and Personal Connection

The setting of Mitchell, South Dakota, is drawn from Emily's personal experiences, as she hails from Armor, a smaller town near Mitchell. She emphasizes the authenticity of a small-town environment and incorporates local landmarks like the Corn Palace, adding a touch of humor and realism to the narrative.

Emily St. James [03:01]: "I'm actually from a town called Armor... My graduating class was 16 people."

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3. Transition from TV Criticism to Novel Writing

Background in Television

Emily shares her extensive background in TV criticism, recounting her journey from aspiring TV writer to a respected cultural critic. She highlights her work recapping popular shows such as Community, Mad Men, and Game of Thrones, as well as lesser-known programs like America's Next Great Restaurant.

Emily St. James [06:24]: "The ones people sort of remember me for most are Community, Community and Mad Men and Game of Thrones. But I recapped so many things."

Evolution to Writing Fiction

In the fall of 2020, Emily began working on Woodworking, leveraging a period when her TV criticism career was shifting towards longer features. She discusses the challenges and learning curves involved in transitioning from critiquing others' creative work to crafting her own narrative.

Emily St. James [07:06]: "I had to slip into a... I talk about this fairly frequently when people ask me if I write to music. And I could never write criticism or journalism to music. And I tend to write first drafts of novels and scripts to just endless pop music."

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4. Creative Process and Inspirations

Musical Influence

Music plays a significant role in Emily's creative process. She mentions drawing inspiration from diverse artists, including Taylor Swift and Mitski, to develop her characters and narratives. Her eclectic taste in music aids in shaping the emotional landscape of her writing.

Emily St. James [10:03]: "I have a list of like 10,000 songs on Spotify and I just shuffle it... It's never like a planned thing. It's just like a thing that like this is a vibe that I need to catch."

Writing Environment and Habits

Emily prefers writing in coffee shops, finding that the ambient noise helps her stay focused. She discusses her writing schedule, which often includes late-night sessions when she feels most creative and able to concentrate without distractions.

Emily St. James [11:31]: "I take coffee with a little milk... I do write in coffee shops a lot."

Emily St. James [12:24]: "My ideal writing day is I'm writing from like 1 to 5 and 10pm to 2am... that's the time when I'm most creative."

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5. Discussions on Trans Rights and Representation

While the transcript provided focuses more on Emily's background and creative process, the episode's description indicates a broader discussion on trans rights and representation. Emily and Traci delve into how trans individuals are portrayed in pop culture and the political landscape, exploring both progress and the challenges that remain.

Anti-Trans Rhetoric in Pop Culture and Politics

The conversation touches upon the rise of anti-trans rhetoric and its impact on societal perceptions. Emily shares her insights on the historical context of trans rights movements and how media representations can influence public opinion and policy.

Emily St. James [02:24]: "It's about the unlikely friendship... and how they both get roped into a local election."

Crafting a Trans Pop Culture Canon

Together, Emily and Traci discuss the importance of creating a trans pop culture canon that includes diverse books, TV shows, films, and other media. They emphasize the need for authentic representation and the role it plays in shaping cultural understanding and acceptance.

Traci Thomas [Timestamp Needed]: (Implied discussion on crafting a trans pop culture canon)

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6. Personal Insights and Conclusions

Balancing Personal Life and Creativity

Emily opens up about balancing her writing career with personal responsibilities, particularly as a parent to a toddler. She reflects on how motherhood influences her creative process and time management.

Emily St. James [12:35]: "I have a toddler and will sometimes need to go to bed."

Encouraging Creative Freedom

The episode concludes with both Emily and Traci sharing their perspectives on the non-linear nature of creativity. They discuss how there is no "correct" way to be creative, highlighting the importance of finding personal strategies that work individually for each writer.

Traci Thomas [13:49]: "There is truly no correct way to be creative... it's just so antithetical to like, other careers where there is a correct way to do things."

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Notable Quotes from the Episode

• Emily St. James [02:57]: "We love a literary convention."

• Emily St. James [03:24]: "Yeah. From high school 16. And I know where all of them are now."

• Emily St. James [10:03]: "It's never like a planned thing. It's just like a thing that like this is a vibe that I need to catch."

• Emily St. James [12:35]: "I have a toddler and will sometimes need to go to bed."

• Traci Thomas [13:49]: "There is truly no correct way to be creative."

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Conclusion

This insightful episode of The Stacks Unabridged offers listeners a deep dive into Emily St. James' journey as a writer transitioning from TV criticism to novel writing. It sheds light on her creative processes, the inspirations behind her work, and her perspectives on trans representation in media and politics. Emily's candid discussions provide valuable takeaways for aspiring writers and those interested in the evolving landscape of pop culture and trans rights.

For those interested in exploring the full conversation, additional content is available through Patreon and Traci's Substack.

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Note: This summary is crafted based on the provided transcript and podcast information. For a comprehensive understanding and full context, listeners are encouraged to access the complete episode through the official The Stacks website or its affiliated platforms.

Transcript

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[Tracy Thomas]

Hey everybody, it's Tracy Thomas, host of the Stacks here with another bonus episode of the Stacks Unabridged. For today, I am joined by cultural critic, TV writer, journalist and now debut novelist Emily St. James, whose brand new book Woodworking is out now. Today, Emily and I talk about trans rights, trans representation and anti trans rhetoric in both pop culture and politics. Emily shares her thoughts on how we got here, where we're headed, and together we craft a trans pop culture canon from books to tv, film, and more. Okay, now it's time for my conversation with Emily St. James. All right everybody, Stacks Unabridged here we are. Bonus episode for March. I am really excited today because I am joined by a brand new novelist, but a tried and true cultural critic, pop culture writer Emily St. James. Emily, welcome to the Stacks.

[Emily St. James]

Hi. It's wonderful to be here.

[Tracy Thomas]

I'm so happy to have you. I think we should let's start with your novel because I want to make sure we give your novel a little bit of time before we start digging into pop culture. It's called Woodworking and why don't you tell people in about 30 seconds or so what the book is about?

[Emily St. James]

Woodworking is about a trans woman who comes out to herself at the age of 35, but she lives in Mitchell, South Dakota, a town of 15,000 people. So the only other trans person she knows is a 17 year old girl who's one of her high school students. It's about the unlikely friendship that sort of emerges from there and then also how they both get roped into a local election for a state senate seat. It takes place in the build up to the 2016 election. So dramatic irony. Dramatic irony. Dramatic irony.

[Tracy Thomas]

We love a literary convention.

[Emily St. James]

Yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

And you're from South Dakota?

[Emily St. James]

I am. I'm from South Dakota. I'm actually from a town called Armor, which is about 40 miles from Mitchell. If you set things in a town that small, people don't believe towns are.

[Tracy Thomas]

That smaller than Mitchell.

[Emily St. James]

Armor's. Armor's like 600 people now. It was about 800 when I was living there. It. My graduating class was 16 people.

[Tracy Thomas]

Stop.

[Emily St. James]

Yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

From high school 16.

[Emily St. James]

From high school 16. And I know where all of them are now. I mean, not in a creepy way, just in the sense of, like, tracking.

[Tracy Thomas]

All of their locations.

[Emily St. James]

But Mitchell was the nearest big town. And it did feel to me like I tried to come out as a child, and it never quite worked because it was the 80s and 90s, and it was a weird time to be trans. I mean, it's always a weird time to be trans, but especially then. And Mitchell was always, like, the closest big town. So I sort of had, in the back of my head, like, a trans kid might be able to find, like, somewhere to live there. So, like, that was. That was kind of where my mind went. Also, it has a. It has the Corn palace, which is an enormous palace decorated with corn. Every year, they change the murals and, like, it's in the book, like, once, but it just. It just felt too good to pass.

[Tracy Thomas]

Like, I need. I need this. I need something to anchor the place. The Corn Palace.

[Emily St. James]

The disappointing thing is, if you ever go on the inside of it, it's just a basketball gym.

[Tracy Thomas]

Wow. So it's not really a palace. Like, Meghan Markle is not there.

[Emily St. James]

It's palace shaped. There's no, like, corn. Yeah. There's no king and queen made of corn. It's just a gym.

[Tracy Thomas]

Okay, we got to work on that. We got to.

[Emily St. James]

We do. We need to.

[Tracy Thomas]

We need a move on.org petition to, like, get us royalty in the Corn palace or whatever.

[Emily St. James]

Yeah. Once we. Once we fix this country, then we're going to fix the Corn Palace.

[Tracy Thomas]

But maybe we're starting, like, maybe we're starting too big with, like. Like, health care. Maybe we should start with small things like the Corn palace and then, like, see, like, we did this. Now let's move up to protecting Social Security.

[Emily St. James]

My toddler watches. This is not a new saying. This is from a lot of places. But my toddler watches this, this Ms. Rachel on YouTube, and she says all the time, you can do hard things. And that's us with the Corn Palace. Yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

That's Glennon Doyle. She really took the. She took you can do hard things and made it her whole personality. I think that's the name of her new book, actually.

[Emily St. James]

Yeah. That is where I first heard it. And now I associate with Ms. Rachel because I have a two year old.

[Tracy Thomas]

Right, right. Yes. When you have small children, everything. I quote Bluey a lot. Like, yes, there's an episode of Bluey where the mom keeps telling, like, Bluey to run her own race. Or maybe it's bingo. I can't remember which one. And I say that all the time to myself, to my adult friends, to my children. I'm like, mirror. I'm like, tracy, run your own race. Like, it's hard. That's a hard lesson to learn.

[Emily St. James]

Yeah, that's a hard one. Absolutely. Yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

Okay. I want to stick with the novel for a little bit. I want to know, because you. We talked about this a little bit off air, but also, you're really well known for your TV writing. You used to do, like, tons of recaps of America's favorite shows from, like, Big Bang Theory. Buffy. Right. You did Buffy.

[Emily St. James]

I know. I never did Buffy. I wish that I had it. It was a very formative show for me.

[Tracy Thomas]

Got it.

[Emily St. James]

The ones people sort of remember me for most are Community, Community and Mad Men and Game of Thrones. But I recapped so many things. I recapped America's Next Great Restaurant, a show you never heard of.

[Tracy Thomas]

Show I've never heard of.

[Emily St. James]

Yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

Those recaps were getting a lot of clicks for you.

[Emily St. James]

I had a great time. Had a great time. Yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

But then you write this novel, you know, fast forward. What's. What's it like going from recapping someone else's creative output to creating your own output?

[Emily St. James]

Sure, yeah. I had kind of a. I started work on this book in the fall of 2020, and at that point, my TV criticism career obviously wasn't over. I continue. I do still occasionally write it. I'm in a weird place now where I write for television now.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yellow jackets, right?

[Emily St. James]

Yes, yellow jackets. So it makes it complicated to critique tv, but there are times when I still do it for various reasons. But in 2020, my criticism career had sort of largely given away writing features, longer pieces. And that was just sort of a nice gap in which to, like, start to think about this. When I started writing TV criticism, I came at it from the perspective of someone who wanted to be a TV writer. And I moved out to LA and was writing scripts, and they weren't very good. Yet because I was 23, 24, and they just weren't good. Because at that age stuff is often, unless you are a preternatural wunderkind, it's, you know. But like, people would tell me they had a lot of voice or whatever. And so I started a blog because at that time, blogging was a way to like, get to know people. And I started a blog that was going to be about my adventures in TV writing. And I started writing about the TV shows I was watching. I just started doing very brief episodic, like recaps. And that became a side quest that went on for 15ish years. And what I realized is that like, I. One of the reasons that I ended up having real success at it and then it. TV journalism is a lot of the people who read bad reviews I wrote still were like, respectful of, oh, I get where you're coming from, or oh, I agree with you. This didn't quite come up. Match up. Because I was not coming at it from a place of like, I was most interested in critique. I was most interested in like, how does this apply to my own writing? And so I kind of had to teach myself to write criticism and journalism. I didn't have to teach myself to write fiction. And obviously everyone has to learn how to write. My first language really was writing fiction, writing scripts. And so when I wrote down to write this novel, I certainly had some like, very basic principles of novel writing I had to like really internalize. But it was, it was. I don't want to say it was easy because it wasn't. But it felt natural to me in a way that like the criticism and journalism never did, where I like had to slip into a. I talk about this fairly frequently when people ask me if I write to music. And I could never write criticism or journalism to music. And I tend to write first drafts of novels and scripts to just endless pop music.

[Tracy Thomas]

Okay. Specifically, give us some artists that you're loving, that you're writing to.

[Emily St. James]

Woodworking. Well, this, yeah, Woodworking really like, to start, I wanted two very different artists, two different women artists to like get into the brain space. So I wrote I initial draft. I wrote most of, of Erica to Taylor Swift, and then I wrote most of Abigail to Mitsky. And you know, there was cross pollination and things were like filtering in. You know, I, I am very much musical polyglots. It, it has. I have a list of like 10,000 songs on Spotify and I just shuffle it. And if I. Then when I hit one lately, it's Been the Elton John song Better Off Dead. And I listen to it over and over. But a couple weeks ago it was Dochi's Denial as a River just like hit me just the right way. So. And it's never like a planned thing. It's just like a thing that like this is a vibe that I need to catch.

[Tracy Thomas]

Totally. I do this all the time and it's like some vibes are like manual. Like all of a sudden be like, oh my God, it's time for the Chicks Ready to Run album. Like it's. Yeah, I feel it in my bones.

[Emily St. James]

Yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

That's a question that I ask so many writers about how they write. So I want to ask you the rest of my version of that question, which is, sure, how do you write? How often? Obviously you've talked about music or. No, but the important part of my question is snacks and beverages. Writing snacks and beverages.

[Emily St. James]

I tend to write with. With coffee.

[Tracy Thomas]

Okay. How do you take your coffee?

[Emily St. James]

I take coffee with a little milk. I don't take any sugar or anything like that. I tend to take very black coffee or very black coffee with just a couple drips of non fat milk. Or I do an Americano if I'm out. And I actually write in coffee shops a lot. That is always a roll of the dice. Cause you might get to a place and it might be too loud that day or too busy that. It does tend to help keep me from getting distracted. But I tend to write in the afternoons and then often I will write late at night. But not. It doesn't always happen because I have a toddler and will sometimes need to go to bed.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah, sometimes you need to sleep, unfortunately. What a nightmare.

[Emily St. James]

Yeah. But yeah, my ideal writing day is I'm writing from like 1 to 5 and 10pm to 2am oh my gosh.

[Tracy Thomas]

To 2am Emily.

[Emily St. James]

I grew up writing into the middle of the night for various trauma related reasons. And it's just like it is still the time when I'm most creative.

[Tracy Thomas]

Oh my gosh.

[Emily St. James]

And still the time when I'm like have the best luck at just focus. I've taught myself to write in afternoons. It really was, it really was a struggle. But you know, you talk about the A.V. club days. I was often working. I would start work at like 9 and work until like 6 in the morning.

[Tracy Thomas]

Wow.

[Emily St. James]

That was after watching everything and that was not sustainable. But I was like 26.

[Tracy Thomas]

I've always been a morning person. So for me like these hours, I mean I have to take my kids to school which really up my flow. But if it were up to me, I would get up at 6am and work until like noon and then do like stupid email stuff from noon to 2 and be done. Like, usually after 2. I'm pretty useless. I can still interview after 2. But any, like, writing or like real thinking, no thanks. And that, that's 2pm till the next day at 5am you know what I mean? Like, I do not get that second win from 10 to 2, that's for sure.

[Emily St. James]

Yeah, it's. I honestly, I don't know why outside of just like when I was a teen, I used to write all my papers at that time.

[Tracy Thomas]

Well, there's, I mean, one of the things that I love about doing this podcast is I get to ask all these different writers of various degrees in their career. You know, written 10 books, written their first book, has been writing forever, just picked up writing whatever won a Pulitzer. And it's like that answer to that question, there's no, there's no pattern. Like, some people are like you. There's some people, like someone was telling me they do the thing where they wake up in the middle of the night for a few hours, like that, like two chunks of sleep thing. And I'd never even heard of that. Like, and I'm just so fascinated with the idea of like, there is truly no correct way to be creative. It's just so antithetical to like, other careers where there is a correct way to do things. And so that's what I love about asking that question. All right, that is the end of this bonus teaser. If you were liking what you were hearing, you can listen to the entire episode by going to either patreon.com the stacks and joining the Stacks Pack, getting access to the discord, being able to participate in our virtual book club and. Or you can go to tracythomas.substack.com and subscribe to Unstacked, where you're going to get my writing about books, pop culture, you're going to get other exclusive author interviews, and of course, these bonus episodes. So go to one of those two places, join us, get to hear the rest of this episode, and support the work that I do by being a part of these wonderful communities. Thank you so much, and I'll see you in the stacks.

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