Loading summary
Transcript123 lines
- [00:00]
A
Guess What, Claude? Opus 4.5 is here and people are saying it is the world's best coding agent. But I needed some proof. So I put Opus 4.5 head to head with Gemini 3 Pro. I built a SaaS app and I wanted to see who would win and the results might shock you. I did it with my friend, the Boring Marketer. And in this episode we are going to show you how opus 4.5 stacks against Gemini 3 Pro and also how you can get the most out of Opus 4.5. Hint, it has to do with setting up Claude skills and we show you exactly how to do it. Enjoy the episode. We got the Boring Marketer on the pod. James, by the end of this episode, what are people going to learn?
- [00:56]
B
Well, I'm just going to open the curtains and show everyone sort of how I'm using the latest models. I want to dig into Claude Opus 4.5. I want to jam a little bit on Gemini 3.0 Pro and want to show people how I'm building landing pages and websites as a non designer, non engineer that are driving great conversion.
- [01:17]
A
Can we live play with 4.5 Opus 4.5 and see what happens?
- [01:23]
B
Let's do it. Let's do it. And I also think something that would be kind of interesting is if we did sort of like a test. So let's use Opus 4.5 with the front end design skill. Let's see what we can come up with and then let's do Gemini 3 Pro with the same prompt and let's see what we can come up with there as well.
- [01:45]
A
Let's do it.
- [01:46]
B
All right, so, ooh, here's a way we could do this. Greg, you want to get an idea from Idea Browser and run that and see what it comes up with?
- [01:56]
A
Sure. So do you want me to give you today's idea of the day? Yeah, I actually really like this idea. Estate Dashboard for keeping families informed during probate. Estate executors face constant phone calls and texts from anxious relatives saying, what's happening with Dad's estate? Estate Clear creates a real time family dashboard where executors can post updates, upload documents and track progress, while family members get instant notifications instead of playing phone tags. I mean, it's one of those small ideas like the tan. You know, there's like not. How many estates are there not millions in the US at least. I don't think actually maybe there are.
- [02:38]
B
I don't know how many. But like, I've gone through that process before and you know, it's a black box and it takes over a year. You have no idea what's going on. You're getting these replies from lawyers and stuff like that. Like, give me the doordash visual. That's like just letting me see what's going on, you know, like, that's totally.
- [03:03]
A
Yeah.
- [03:03]
B
And you'd probably save a lot of like money on billable hours to attorneys going back and forth asking them questions and stuff.
- [03:10]
A
And the retention is probably insane. Yeah, like you're not, you're not going to cancel that. All right, let's get to it.
- [03:15]
B
All right, cool. So I'm just going to paste this into here, kind of the full thing that you, that you sent me. So it's truncating it, but you get the idea. So let's see. I want to create a conversion optimized landing page for my new startup, build a dot HTML that I can view locally. You must use the front end design skill to generate the page. So typically what I would do here is I would put this whole description and actually let me go ahead and paste this here just so people can see it. Typically what I would do is I would do some foundational research. You know, like I would put, put this into there. Hey, use the perplexity mcp. Tell me who is in this space. What's a unique kind of differentiating angle that we can take, blah, blah, blah, but we really just kind of want to see, hey, what do these models do with minimal direction if we just give it the concept. So you must use the front end design skill to generate the page. Let's just start there and we'll get a gauge on on design and what it cooks up.
- [04:46]
A
All right.
- [04:48]
B
So meanwhile, I'm going to go over to AI Studio and I'm going to give the exact same prompt.
- [04:59]
A
And could you use like, do you have to go to AI Studio? Could you not have used cursor and just done it within cursor? Sam Altman, the co founder of OpenAI just said that it is the era of the idea guy and he is not wrong. I think that right now is an incredible time to be building a startup and if you listen to this podcast, chances are you think so too. Now I think that you can look at trends to basically figure out what are the startup ideas you should be building. So that's exactly why I built ideabowser.com every single day you're going to get a free startup idea in your inbox and it's all backed by high quality data. Trends. How we do it People always ask, we use AI agents to go and search what are people looking for and what are they screaming for in terms of products that you should be building. And then we hand it on a silver platter for you to go check out. We do have a few paid plans that take it to the next level, give you more ideas, give you more AI agents and more. Almost like a chatgpt for ideas with it. But you can start for free ideabrowser.com, and if you're listening to this, I highly recommend, recommend it.
- [06:14]
B
You, you can, you could use the, the cursor agent there. However, I just don't want to create some like, confusion of it working on like the same things. I want to try to keep this like a, I don't know, a unit test or something like that where we're kind of isolating variables. So let's, we'll, we'll do it this way and we'll see. Okay, so right now, Claude is working on our design already. Let's show AI Studio and we'll get it cooking there. All right, so let's go back to the start. Let's just paste this in and let's get my prompt that we used for the actual page and we said, I want to create a conversion optimized landing page for my new startup, build an HTML that I can view locally, and I'm going to remove the piece about the actual front end design skill because we know that Gemini already has those skills. So let's let her rip and let's see what happens.
- [07:32]
A
What do you think's gonna happen? Like, who do you think's gonna win?
- [07:37]
B
I think that if I were to create a prediction here, I think that Gemini is gonna come up with something more outside of the box. I think Claude is going to create something a little more of like what you'd expect. I think both will be good, but that's, that's just my gut vibe. What do you got? What do you think?
- [08:01]
A
I wouldn't be surprised if Gemini put in AI features in the mvp. I've noticed it's been doing that. I think that's interesting.
- [08:12]
B
Yep.
- [08:12]
A
I think that the, My guess is Opus is going to come up, come and do like a very solid, fully featured SaaS app, but it's going to be like, more kind of similar. You're saying it's going to be similar to what you'd expect, but I think it's going to be really, really solid. Whereas the Gemini might have a couple bugs and it's explored Edges that we probably didn't even think of.
- [08:40]
B
Yeah, after we look at these initial ones too. I've had a lot of fun lately also just prompting the model and saying, all right, this is cool, but come up with something completely outside the box and seeing how creative each model can get. So after we see the initial ones, we'll give that a spin too and see what happens. Cool. Okay, let's see where we're at. So Claude is currently doing its thing. And here we go. So this is Opus 4.5 with the front end design skill. One shot, we have the description from Idea Browser and literally like a one.
- [09:19]
A
To two sentence from Stop answering the same questions from everyone in the family. So good.
- [09:25]
B
Yep. Estate executors face constant calls and texts from anxious relatives. Estate Clear gives you a private family dashboard where everyone stays informed without overwhelming you. So I like the overall, like, aesthetic of this. I mean, going through probate and doing all that and dealing with this in the family, like, isn't exciting.
- [09:45]
A
Right.
- [09:46]
B
So, like, it's got, like a nice sort of, like, subtle tone to it. It's not like screaming in my face with a bunch of wild colors and stuff like that. Clearly it is not just using the same kind of purples and typical AI stuff. So let's scroll down and see what else it did.
- [10:10]
A
So this is your skills that you created hard at work, right? Like from a copy perspective.
- [10:16]
B
Yeah, this is. So I only told it to reference the design skill, actually. So.
- [10:22]
A
Okay.
- [10:23]
B
I didn't explicitly ask it to reference any of the copy skills, so I don't think that it's actually using those. I think this is just what Opus came up with.
- [10:34]
A
Okay, cool.
- [10:35]
B
Yeah, so we can go through it, though, and try to optimize the copy with those skills and see what it does. So I think this is really awesome. This is definitely all you need for an MVP or getting something like this live.
- [10:55]
A
And what happens if you click Star Free trial.
- [10:59]
B
Let's see. So probably nothing yet because we only built the landing page.
- [11:05]
A
Okay.
- [11:06]
B
Yeah, got it. We only built the landing page. Yeah. If we were actually wanting to build out this app, it would take a little bit more time for Claude to do so.
- [11:16]
A
Anecdotally, it does feel like we've. With Opus 4.5 and Gemini 3, it does feel like we've entered a new stratosphere of vibe coding. Would you agree?
- [11:27]
B
I would definitely agree. Like, I think that the lines are just blurring across the board. Like, you know, the line between a non technical person being able to code Blurred. And I would always feel very frustrated with the design portion of this whole process. Yeah, you can build stuff, but everyone can tell it looks vibe coded or it just doesn't look. Right now that line is getting blurred. So all these lines are just blurring. And it's not necessarily vibe coding or vibe marketing or vibe designing or whatever. It's just vibe building in a way. And the entire stack is just kind of coming together into one place, which is nuts. All right, so there's Claude. Let's check in on Gemini and see what we've got there. All right, here's Gemini's version.
- [12:28]
A
Keep the family United. Goes hard.
- [12:31]
B
That does go hard. Manage the estate. Keep the family United. Stop playing phone tag. The private dashboard for executors to share updates, documents and milestones with the whole family at once. Very clear.
- [12:43]
A
Clear. But I don't know, it doesn't have a. I like some of the animations on 4.5. I don't know if you noticed that.
- [12:53]
B
Yes. Like, the box on the right kind of had a little movement. I also like the layout of the 4.51. I can get the copy and I can get that initial visual, like, right away without needing to scroll or scan down the page. All right, so we've got this here social proof. This is very similar between both models. Like this section.
- [13:26]
A
Here. It is the AI.
- [13:28]
B
Yeah.
- [13:28]
A
Don't know what to say. Let AI write the update.
- [13:31]
B
You called that for sure? Yep.
- [13:35]
A
But I think that's, like, really interesting. Like, to me, I probably wouldn't have thought of this. And it's also, you know, if you're trying to create a startup right now that, you know, gets traction, I think having some of these AI first ideas really help.
- [13:49]
B
Yep. Was curious. This is cool. Like, it already built a little kind of like, preview of some functionality here into the landing page. So I like that idea a lot. I like the imagery here. Feels more human, I guess, which is also something that, you know, coding models have missed in the past. Everything feels very robotic. You've got the emojis, you've got the same style of, like, illustrations and stuff like that. And I think with. I mean, with nano banana 3 coming or pro coming into the fold too, like, Gemini has an incredible asset to leverage with its design capabilities for things like this. We've got a very similar kind of pricing card between both designs, so, man, it's tough. I think both are good. I think. I think from a pure esthetic standpoint, I think I like the cloud version better. That's Just.
- [15:03]
A
No, I think you're right there. Like, I think objectively it was nicer. I think, you know, from the feature perspective. Like I said, like, the AI feature is really interesting. Impressed that it worked too. I mean, my real question with 4.5 is like, okay, great, now it's made a landing page, but can it create a SaaS app? You know what I mean? Like, yeah, ultimately I'm Interested in pushing 4.5 to the limits and I would, you know, I would be curious if it actually could build an app that I can sell.
- [15:40]
B
It absolutely could. I mean, you know, if you wanted to build this entire product in Claude code with 4.5, you, you could definitely do that. You know, like with Claude 4.5 sonnet, like I've taken, you know, idea for a SAS from zero to production ready. So you can certainly do it with either of these models. Now, what I have personally found, and to be clear, I haven't tried to build a full on application with Gemini 3 yet, but I think that Claude's earlier models, like, I would always go back to them. Like when I was trying to use Codex and GPT5 before 5.1 came out and Gemini 2.5 Pro and stuff like that. And while the logic is good and the thinking and the debugging is good, getting from zero to fully ready was easier with the Claude models. That's just been my experience. So I always kind of try to lean on Claude as the workhorse and then have these other models doing what they're good at as sort of advisory model, if you will. So here they are like side by side now. I mean, if we wanted to, we could, we could see how each of these builds out beyond the landing page and just say, hey, create a clickable prototype for, for the concept and we can kind of get a gauge on how it's thinking there.
- [17:23]
A
Let's do that.
- [17:25]
B
Okay.
- [17:26]
A
And because I'm curious.
- [17:29]
B
Let's do it. All right, let's go back to cursor and we will get started there. So I want to build the full clickable prototype of the app locally so that I can open up a HTML and see how it looks and feels.
- [17:54]
A
And if we wanted to build, I know we're not going to do it today because we don't have two and a half hours. Yeah, but if we wanted to build the backend.
- [18:03]
B
Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely. I mean, we could, you know, we could set up the entire backend. So some of the things that I've used in like my most recent builds are like Neon, which is kind of the database plugs in nicely and plays well with Vercel Clerk for Auth and Login. Easy to spin up Oauth or anything like that. I would probably deploy onto Vercel or Railway or something along those lines. You could integrate Stripe for the payments and the subscriptions relatively easily as well. And you could build the entire logic and application here for sure. So I'll give the same prompt while we're waiting there to. To Gemini. One of the things that I really like about Gemini and just Google generally is how, and we've talked about this a lot, is just how vertically integrated it is. Now. Developers and stuff have their preferences for what tools and what things they want to use at different levels of their stack. But if you think about like 90% of people, like someone who's just trying to build their app or get something out there or whatever, having everything like integrated into AI Studio, from Auth to your storage or database, to easily integrating AI models into your product, to hosting, etc. Google has the full range of capabilities there that they own that, you know, they can integrate directly into like AI Studio, which I think from just a convenience perspective for most people is a really powerful value proposition. And from a cost perspective, from a speed perspective, from just keeping things organized perspective, that's a huge advantage that, that they have as they push this forward.
- [20:22]
A
Totally. I mean, I don't think I'm going to switch from my iPhone, but I've never been closer to switch to an Android.
- [20:32]
B
It's pretty crazy. Like, you know, something else that we've talked about is, you know, not only do they own the foundational model, you know, the Gemini model and all these other tools and stuff, the data that Google has is insane. Obviously we all know that a lot of people use Google Workspace to basically run their life, their email, their calendar, their documents, their spreadsheets, whatever. And so you have that whole layer, that application layer and the tools layer and then you've got the devices like you mentioned, but beyond that, the TPUs and everything. Now I'm not a semiconductor expert by any means, but what I do know is that they work with like Broadcom or whatever to manufacture their own chips and it's a lot cheaper, which is something that Google loves is being able to offer, undercut the market and owning this entire stack is just crazy to think about where it's all headed.
- [21:39]
A
And they also own, I think 14% of anthropic.
- [21:42]
B
True, true, true.
- [21:44]
A
So they're both kind of Google products at the End of the day, right? 4.5 and Gemini.
- [21:50]
B
Yep. Have you been playing with Nano Banana at all, Greg?
- [21:54]
A
I have. You're talking about Nano Banana Pro, right?
- [21:59]
B
Yeah, the latest release.
- [22:00]
A
Yeah. It's significantly better than the first version. The number one thing I notice is just text is better.
- [22:09]
B
Yeah.
- [22:09]
A
So it was so frustrating with Nana Banana that I'd create a YouTube thumbnail and it would be so close, but it would add like an extra O and I would be like, take out the O and it would be like, no, you know, it just wouldn't be able to do it. And there were some tricks around that, you know, creating a new chat using that image as a reference image. But with Nano Banana Pro I'm just finding like, you know, 50% better outputs. I'm also using Glyph app to help get the most out of nanobanana. Nano Banana, by the way, no affiliation with Glyph, no affiliation with Google, no affiliation with Anthropic. Just tools that, you know, I'm using that helps me prompt Nana Banana Pro a little bit better. It's kind of crazy to think about. Like what? Like, you know, obviously, you know, obviously the use cases is crazy to think about. There's like a bajillion startup ideas that I'm thinking about right now. Specifically around Nano Banana Pro. For example, I saw someone, someone created infographics. Did you see this, this guy who created the infographics startup?
- [23:31]
B
No, I haven't seen that.
- [23:33]
A
I don't remember like his MRR from it. But basically guy creates a. He basically, you know, so many people want to create an infographics and like would you pay 20 bucks for an incredible infographics? Like maybe if it helps you get 50,000 impressions on X. So he just optimized Nana Banana Pro for infographics, got a good domain name, created a good brand around it and like what are other categories for that?
- [24:04]
B
Yeah, yeah, something I was using it for, you know, Black Friday's coming up or whatever. I want to do some like retargeting campaigns. I want to run some ad campaigns on Meta and I saw this format. Maybe this is a little sauce for people. Like similar format to this like infographic approach. But, but I got these ads on Instagram and it was kind of like the one page map to accomplish this. Let me show you. Actually real quick. I'll just pull up some of the little ads that I created cause I actually thought they were pretty good. So my idea for the ad is kind of leaning into that infographic style. How can I Give people value in the ad itself, you know, before I ask them to do something. So we've been doing a lot of these like free workshops or whatever they've been doing. Well, my concept was, hey, let's take some like short clips or replays from the workshops and some key takeaways people should know. Let's run an ad, drive people to each of those, see which one, you know, converts, helps us build our list and then, you know, convert people into the community or whatever. So, so this is like one of the ads that I created. So I've got one of these for each of the workshops and then I've got sort of like a transformational ad that's like before vibe marketing, after vibe marketing as well. Like I try to see what's going on in like the direct to consumer E comm world and figure out how I can apply it to my world. They're testing way more ads than any other industry. They're learning really fast, borrowing some ideas from there and then translating it into like, you know, sort of the creator world is. I think there's some alpha there. But yeah, what do you think of this ad? Honest take? Do you like it? Do you not? Is it too, too much text?
- [25:59]
A
To me it's too much text and it's too busy on the negative side. But what I do like about it is like I find like the recordings in the AI finds, the moments, the saved layout snap into place. Like the titles look really great, the call to action looks really great. The visual style I think looks pretty good, like that handwritten style. So I think like, what this is like for me, one prompt away from being a really, really high performing ad.
- [26:31]
B
Yeah, yeah, I agree. Yeah. And I think just like those barriers, you know, like, oh man, I'd love to run a campaign but you know, I've got to go get a designer to make some good ads for me. They have to know how to design good ads. And all this stuff, like those just aren't blockers anymore. Like you can open up Gemini 3 for example and you can say, hey, go and research the top performing ad formats for me across these industries, find the common patterns, look at my business and give me the hook, the angle and the visual style that I can go and paste into nanobanana Pro. Like you've got the thinking and the testing and the data from all kinds of people that have gone and done it and scaled it and everything else and you can take that knowledge in a snap, go create a good image and then launch a campaign. That could potentially generate fresh sales or revenue for you. So just the speed you can do it and the barriers dissolving is just, I don't know, pretty mind blowing. So let's check on our progress. So this is the family view. First impressions here. Like it maintained the aesthetic perfectly, like down to the font. You know, it's not your typical build a SaaS dashboard AI look, you know, at all. Like a lot of those always look the same. Like I don't know if you've seen like Claude artifacts and stuff like that, like that sort of vibe emojis and everything. Like none of that, like this looks really good. Here's kind of your progress sort of thing that we talked about. We've got recent activity, the different family members here as well. It went ahead and built out a lot of these sub views in this prototype. We've got the updates. Keeping you informed with the latest estate news. This is a really nice touch. We've got document storage, which is cool. Milestones.
- [28:44]
A
Just as you're clicking around this, it's like, why doesn't this exist?
- [28:48]
B
Yeah, it's a really good idea. Couple pages aren't built, but yeah, you get the idea. You can post an update, sharing the news with your family. This is a great idea. It kind of reminds me of like, what's that platform like Carta or whatever, like for company like fundraising and financials and stuff like that. There's also been a couple like Family Office as a product startups that have come out as well, kind of keeping all of that information safe and stuff. So there's some, there's some good sort of examples out there to pull from for this. The only thing is like, for this I would say what's the recurring kind of kind of use case? I guess like one way to think about it would be okay, the estate clears what, what's next in the journey? Right? Do you need financial advisory or financial help? Do you have some sort of estate law play or integration that comes next? So this is one step in the journey I would say to really improve the concept. It's like, what's the recurring use case after? That's the next phase of life after this.
- [30:09]
A
I'm going to do a whole episode on vertical apps like this and how to structure them. But the hardest part of building a vertical app is figuring out what is the workflow, figuring out what is the social aspect and then obviously figuring out what is the vertical. And once you have these people in the network, then the workflow might change. But, but you know There is a workflow there that you can. That, you know, you just have to figure out what that is. And if you don't know what that is, like, you can show this to a family. Right. You now have a prototype. Show it to them, get feedback. You could, you know, on ideabowser, we have pro features that give you agents to help you figure that out. You could, you know, just take it one step at a time, too. Suffer on retention initially. And then, you know, once you have customers, just like, build, build as you go.
- [31:13]
B
Right, right. I think also, you know, maybe the first customer isn't necessarily the family. The first customers may be the probate attorney.
- [31:26]
A
Yeah.
- [31:27]
B
You know, like, they've got the clients coming all the time and, you know, they can. It's kind of like the B2, B2C model, if you will. Yeah. So, all right, let's see what AI Studio is doing real quick and let's get a gauge on. So something that I've noticed is there's a couple errors here.
- [31:52]
A
So what do you do when you see errors like that?
- [31:56]
B
Fix error. How can you make this work? No, you know, for me, it's, yeah, just kind of a process of like trying to dig deeper into what the root cause is. So I use term the terminal for all of the work that I'm doing. So if we think back to that cursor setup, I may say, hey, Claude, ultrathink about this problem. You know, if you type in ultrathink, it'll change colors and it'll use more, you know, power to kind of help to dig in or solve the problem. Other tactics that I've used with Claude, because that's like my daily workhorse is I'll say, hey, if I'm really stuck, I'll say, hey, spin up specialized sub agents that are going to go and find the root cause of why this thing is breaking. I need like a Q and a tester. I need a senior sort of like engineer. Focus on this or whatever. And then it'll spin up these specialized agents that'll identify different areas that they're going to go and research in the code base. And then it'll come together with like a comprehensive sort of analysis for me. And then I can say, hey, all right, cool. Plan this in terms of like a step by step process that we can go through to fix it. If it's still stuck, that's where I'll use cursor agent with, you know, GPT or Gemini or something like that for kind of an outside perspective. Now, one of the things that Anthropic is kind of talking about with Opus 4.5 is that its ability to kind of stay on track is really powerful. Sometimes when the code base grows, it's harder to kind of manage the context to find what that single problem or whatever is causing that's breaking the app. So I haven't built something full with opus 4.5 yet. I'm thinking that its ability to work through the bugs without sort of getting lost is going to be a lot stronger. And I wouldn't maybe need Ultrathink or subagents or maybe even those additional agents on the side. So I'm really curious to dig into that and see.
- [34:06]
A
Which is a big deal. It's a big deal for your. The healthier heart.
- [34:11]
B
Yeah, for sure. So here's our prototype within Gemini here. So little bit of a different vibe. More like less dashboard. More sort of like digest or updates or a space for the. Sorry, it updated the. Updated the landing page a little. Oh, no, it's just a sizing thing. Sorry. Okay, so a little more of, like a social vibe here, like sharing an update or connecting with the family. It's got the AI features, like, built in, like, polish with AI. Like, if I want to update the family, I'm not sure if that's needed. But you called it that there would be AI integrations within the build. So that's interesting. Let's see. Documents. Similar idea to what Claude came up with with, like, document storage. We've got the timeline here I kind of liked. I think the timeline is one of the core aspects here of, like, getting that quick snapshot. I liked how the 4.5 opus had that front and center. As soon as you log into the dashboard, we've got the family and we've got settings. My take is I feel that Opus went a little bit deeper in terms of thinking through the product. I mean, this looks good, it's clean, it's not bad. But I think I like the, like, the other version a little bit better.
- [36:03]
A
Yeah, it feels a little more refined, a little deeper. By the way, both of these products are outstanding.
- [36:14]
B
Absolutely.
- [36:14]
A
MVPs. And we're only testing this with very few prompts, so it's unclear that at prompt 25, who would be winning.
- [36:27]
B
Right.
- [36:27]
A
But I think if you look at. Based on the two prompts that we've done, I think it's clear that estate clear on 4.5 beat Gemini 3.
- [36:39]
B
Yeah. Yeah. I've got one other concept here for a test just to try to make sure that we're doing this in a fair way. All right, so Anti Gravity, you know, Google's agentic ide. I'm curious if we put the same prompt into the Gemini 3 Pro model in anti Gravity, if it is different than what you get in AI Studio.
- [37:14]
A
I have a feeling I know the answer to that, but let's try it. All right.
- [37:20]
B
We'll see what happens.
- [37:21]
A
My hunch is that you're gonna get worse design out of Anti Gravity.
- [37:28]
B
Okay.
- [37:29]
A
But you know, I've been wrong once and I've been wrong before. I've been wrong lots of times. So.
- [37:35]
B
Okay, let's check it out. And by the way, like, Anti Gravity is really cool. Like, definitely recommend people check it out. So I'm just gonna paste in the same prompt and let's see what happens.
- [37:54]
A
So why should people use Anti Gravity over cursor?
- [37:59]
B
Well, it's a good question. I mean, at the end of the day, they're both VS code forks, you know, so they're both kind of based off of VS code, which is open source and free. However, I like some of the things Anti Gravity is working on, to be honest, I've just started using it and testing it and things like that. But they've got some like, Chrome stuff built in here where it can access the browser in a really easy way and it can even access, you install a Chrome extension. So if anyone's done vibe coding in the past and you're trying to squash a bug, you open up your deployment, whether that's locally or hosted or whatever, and your coding model's like, hey, navigate to it on Chrome and then open up the console and the dev tools and figure out, tell me if this API connection's working. Copy paste the responses. That whole debugging process is pretty painful. So with the Chrome extension that Anti Gravity connects to, it can access that data for you programmatically. So it's accessing the dom, it's seeing sort of the data behind the scenes. So I suspect it will greatly minimize the back and forth in this debugging process when it has a very tight browser integration and can access data through the Anti Gravity extension. So I think that's super interesting. That's kind of the first thing that I've really kind of picked up on and noticed. I suspect given the speed that Google's shipping, we're going to see a lot of interesting things here, like some of the landing pages I've built here. I'm pretty sure you'll be able to have Nano Banana integrated within antigravity and some of these other tools, like, you know, like, you want a killer illustration. Great. Like let's spin that up with Nana Banana and put on.
- [40:11]
A
That's where it's going to go crazy, right? Because you see what's happening with Google is they're creating VO3, they're creating Nana Banana, they're creating all these like, it's a whole creative suite of killer use cases that are pretty independent. But once they're able to, you know, bring that into Anti Gravity and just use all the horsepower from all those killer use case products, I think it's gonna be absolutely madness. It's gonna be really awesome.
- [40:42]
B
And man, like, taking that even further, it's like, oh, let's make a launch video, let's make a podcast. There's so many ways that it can extend, extend into the ecosystem. I mean, you know, we talk a lot about like, vi marketing stuff. Ooh, let's set up a Google Ads campaign to drive traffic to this. I mean, like the ability to stay interconnected and grow lifetime value. No one can match that with this ecosystem that they have, which is. It's wild.
- [41:20]
A
So what's happening?
- [41:22]
B
Okay, so we put in the same prompt here as well. Right now, actually, I think it is generating a mock up with Nano Banana. So it's actually generating an image with Nano Banana instead of going ahead and building the page from scratch. So, okay, here's what it's doing. It's generating a custom dashboard mockup image first to make the page look real. Then I'll build the HTML file. Ooh, wow. So it used Nano Banana. So it's integrated to create a high fidelity visual mockup that we can see. Pretty nice initial mock up, I would say.
- [42:10]
A
Totally. Really nice. Like those chunky buttons.
- [42:14]
B
Also, that's kind of like how a real team would work, right? Like, okay, like let's create like a high fidelity mock up. Let's make sure you like it before we go and write all the code, you know, Totally. Anti Gravity may surprise us here. Okay, so here's another thing. Really fast, really fast is something I noticed in Anti Gravity. Let's, let's open it up. I'm sure the, the hardcore developers and, and everything are gonna be like, what are you doing? But this is how I do it. All right, so I'm, I've opened it up in my browser. Let's check it out. So this is anti gravity. Gemini 3 Pro. Keep families informed during probate. Stop the endless phone calls. Estate clerk gives you a real time dashboard. Share updates, documents and Progress of family. Family members. Instantly it's got the image that it created. So again, this is really cool. How it's able to utilize Nano Banana within the workflow, call it as a tool and implement it into your design. Like that is really neat. So some similarities here between, you know, some of the other ones in terms of showing the features and stuff like that, the pricing, etc. So I think, you know, my take would be outside of this image. It feels a little basic. So I think your instinct that AI Studio will have a better initial design output from one prompt was correct.
- [43:55]
A
I think what was cool about Anti Gravity in this whole sprint that we did with it is if you scroll down the mockup for me, how that mockup is and how this is wireframed out, there is some alpha in there. And then maybe you go back to Opus 4.5 or maybe you go back to Gemini 3 Pro on AI Studio and then iterate there.
- [44:21]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you like from each model or whatever? What can you learn from each? How can you sort of use it across the spectrum here to arrive at what you like at the end of the day? So really cool. Really cool. So going back to kind of like my setup a little bit, there are a few skills that I recommend everyone create with Claude Opus. So a skill is just like a set of instructions that the model is going to reference when it does a certain task. Okay. So I do a lot of like, website optimization for the vibe marketer.com I want to figure out, hey, how can I convert more visitors into customers? And we've talked a lot about this, but, like, it comes down to really good copywriting. I think that, you know, that's a struggle for like 90% of business owners is knowing what kind of copy to write for their business. They don't want to feel, you don't want to feel too cheesy, too salesy, but you also want to leverage the principles of influence and persuasion in the right way. You know, you don't want to have this empty brand speak. And you also don't want to be like, hey, make this much money, do this, like right away. There's a fine balance, right? So I call this elevated direct response. And I build a skill around it. And every time I write copy for my website, Claude references this skill and it does a great job at, you know, producing, you know, this, this style of conversion, focused copy. So the way that I did it is I found some people in my space, or in our space that, that, that I like that I Look up to that, have, you know, built some pretty huge businesses with community and education and, and things like that. So here's an example. I have the Perplexity MCP set up in cloud code. So I say, hey, use the Perplexity mcp, go research Cody Sanchez and Alex Hormozi and like the biggest sort of like education or information based businesses out there and break down exactly how they're writing their copy, how they're positioning their products and services and how they're talking about what they do, what are the main takeaways that you can learn. So I did that and kind of came up with a few different baseline insights. The contrarian educator. So Cody Sanchez starts out with like a contrarian point of view or a contrarian hook, you know, so got that from her. When I did this research on Alex Hormozi, I found that he's got sort of these offers that you can't refuse and he's always sort of stacking the value in terms of like what someone is going to get like with this big promise that you're making. So those are great learnings. What I did was I collected that into kind of this elevated direct response skill or playbook. And then what I did is I fed Claude code a bunch of examples of my own writing. So things that I've created a bunch of tweets, even like transcripts of YouTube videos that I've done, you name it. And I said hey, distill this into a brand voice skill. So it broke down the way that I talk, the way that I write so that it feels natural and you can see some of the things here that it came up with. So contrarian educator. So boring is like the antidote to like shiny objects out there. What's the real practical ways people are going to get value from some of this stuff? You know, I'm really focused on compound growth while operating on the bleeding edge. So I don't like to chase everything. I like to figure out how I can build systems around these tools and processes that are going to pay dividends for a long time. Direct response DNA. So you know, as a, as a small business or a creator or whatever, like we don't need to worry about like this empty brand speak. We want to get people to take action in a classy way. So I've got a direct response DNA systems over hacks. So that compound long term thinking and then like a creator first language. Like you always talk about like learning how to write for the Internet. I think like that's the epitome of creator first language, like, you want to talk naturally, you know. So blending what I learned from, from these folks with my own kind of DNA kind of led me to creating my own voice skill and Claude that it uses every time. So I rebuilt my entire website using this, and it's been working pretty well. So definitely leverage skills. And with the tool use and the context ability of 4.5, it's going to do a really good job with those. So I boiled all that down also into like a landing page architecture architecture that I utilize. So I've been, you know, pumping out a lot of landing pages on my website lately. Like, we've been doing these like, workshops. I wanted to create like a lead magnet around those so that I could gather emails. I wanted to redesign the homepage, and I use the same architecture that Claude Code was able to reference on each and every page using my voice. So this is sort of an overview of the architecture that I use and probably a lot of other people use, whether they know it or not. So, you know, we want to have like an impactful hero section. You know, what, what is this getting you? What's sort of the transformation or the outcome? We go through the problem agitate phase. So this is sort of like, what's the issue you're facing? How do you stoke the pain to make it feel like you really need something and then you're coming in with a solution? So, so problem agitate solution is kind of a classic framework for conversion. We're providing the solution with this value Stack took that from sort of studying Hormozy's stuff, where we're trying to make it feel like we're giving you so much value that it feels dumb to say no.
- [50:45]
A
Right.
- [50:45]
B
And then we follow up with social proof, the transformation kind of backing up and reselling this sort of major outcome that you're gonna get, having a secondary strong cta. And then if you need like a footer or anything like that. So taking a step back, I know that's a lot of information. One research, like the leaders in your space, people you look up to, people you think are doing a good job, you know, nail your own sort of brand voice based on how you naturally speak. Combine that into a voice skill. Okay. And then you can optimize that into sort of like your landing page architecture that's driven toward generating a conversion.
- [51:30]
A
And from your experience playing with Opus 4.5 in the last 24 hours, you're kind of, you know, I know you shared some of the landing pages and copy with me. You're basically suggesting that you can get way better results.
- [51:47]
B
Yeah, you can get way better results with less prompting and less work in between. So do the research up front, set up the skills, throw one prompt into the system and you'll get a great result. So doing the boring stuff up front, if you will, doing the research, building these skills out, maybe you have two or three, and then attacking the project with just one clear prompt can get you a long way. So I'll show you what that means and maybe we can even run it live and show people what this looks like. But there's one final skill that is a must have with Opus 4.5. Now everyone's seen all the Gemini 3 designs out there and it does a fantastic job. I think it's awesome. But don't sleep on Claude 4.5 opus with the front end design skills. Most people don't know that this skill exists. I didn't know it existed until, you know, Claude posted like a blog post about it on X and I read it and you can install it with two simple prompts. I wrote an X post on this. But basically all you do, you enter this first one in. This adds sort of this anthropic plugin marketplace into your cloud code environment and then you've got plugin install front end design at Claude code plugins. So what this is going to help Claud Code do is avoid all of that typical AI design stuff. You know, we've seen it everywhere, everything looks the same, you've got the same gradients, the same text, all of that. So skills are just like long sets of prompts or instructions. So in there, Claude's own team built this out. It's like avoid the typical AI stuff, build production grade designs and interfaces, explore, et cetera. So got all the instructions that you need to build out. So I ran one prompt with this. I was just imagining kind of like a made up offer. Like what if I held like a workshop where I taught people how to like build conversion focused landing pages that look really good or something like that. I put in a two line prompt and it sort of one shot at this, which I think it was a good first pass for Claude with the front end design skill. It's got a clear headline, it's got sort of stoking the pain in a way. It's got kind of like the transformation, it's got some features if you will, and then it's a very clean and simple design. Could obviously work on this more and ask it to do A lot more things. But this one shot with a one sentence per prompt is far better than what most people are doing out there.
- [54:36]
A
Yeah. And the copy hits. The visuals don't look vibe coded at all. It's easy to scan. I can imagine on mobile that this would probably convert pretty well. I don't have too many notes on it.
- [54:54]
B
Right, right. I think what I would do, what I would say is, you know, I need a better cta kind of top of the fold, like what action do we want people to take? Social proof would also be really good as well. But like, you know, those two elements and you've got something that you can literally create in two or three minutes that's optimized for conversion, that sounds and looks good.
- [55:19]
A
Yeah. And I think that the big piece that people miss with Vibe coding is they Vibe code stuff. But then the copy sucks.
- [55:27]
B
Yeah.
- [55:29]
A
So then people, you know, they're converting at 1% or less than 1% and they're like, why? And then. And they come to the conclusion that, oh, vibe coding, you know, doesn't work for me exactly where it's like, well, you know, in a lot of ways the content is the ux, so. And what is the content? It's the words. And so if you can create great copy, you're going to probably be able to convert even if the design isn't drop dead gorgeous.
- [56:00]
B
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, look back at the old school sales letters and stuff like that, you know, from like back in the day or like those old long form newspaper ads. They aren't necessarily beautiful, it's all text. But they know how to influence and talk about those pain points really, really well. And I think you point out a really good point here is like everyone's focused on the design aspect of the aesthetic, which is important and we don't want something that looks the same as everyone else. But 98% of people that are Vibe coding or Vibe building are missing out on this whole copy angle for sure.
- [56:42]
A
So that's the episode Opus 4.5 versus Gemini 3 Pro with some bonus anti gravity. What's your TLDR on this whole experience and should people get started with 4.5 today?
- [57:01]
B
Yes, 4.5 opus, I think is going to be an incredible model just based off some of these initial tests that we did and that I was doing last night. When you combine it with that front end design skill, it's able to one shot some pretty incredible interfaces and designs. I think if you level up that design like we were talking about with actual good copy that's geared toward conversion. Like you're going to be. You're going to be unstoppable. So like just to review the copy, review leaders in your niche review direct response, add context of how you talk naturally, define your elevated direct response skill. So if you use that in combination with the design skill, I think you'll be really pleased. And then the things that I liked here about AI Studio and Anti Gravity. Anti Gravity, really cool. It's using nanobanana Pro. I think nanobanana has been awesome to play around with AI Studio absolutely cooking right now with the releases and the updates. So it's a playground out there right now.
- [58:13]
A
Thank you, James. Thanks for spilling the sauce coming on here. I'll include links where you can follow boring marketer aka James in the show notes, his YouTube channel, his X account and his community, TheVideoMarketer.com, which I think, I think you get a free toolkit or something if you sign up, right?
- [58:38]
B
Yes. So we've been doing these workshops. We've got basically these experts that we've sourced from our community that we're hosting to kind of spill the beans on how they're using all these tools to build some pretty incredible things. We've done AI video editing and scaling content, we've done AI search and SEO, we've done Claude code, etc. And I've taken sort of the best clips from those. You can get them on the vibration marketer.com workshops and you know, go grab it free, no gatekeeping, see if you like it.
- [59:13]
A
All right, well, thanks again. And dude, never a dull moment in this industry, right?
- [59:21]
B
I mean, last week and this week, like, I need a break. Like I've got whiplash from, you know, looking at all the new releases and stuff. So I don't know if this is the new normal or not, but it's a crazy time to be alive.
- [59:35]
A
I mean, I'm definitely tinkering this Thanksgiving, that's for sure.
- [59:38]
B
Oh yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me, Greg.
- [59:41]
A
Appreciate you.