The Startup Ideas Podcast — "What the heck is GEO (AI search, rankings, $$$)"

Date: September 12, 2025
Host: Greg Isenberg
Guest: Cody Schneider
Topic: Demystifying "GEO": The New Era of AI Search, Rankings, and Traffic

Episode Overview

In this deep-dive conversation, Greg Isenberg and growth expert Cody Schneider break down the emerging trend known as "GEO"—also referred to as AI Search. The episode explains what GEO really is (and isn’t), who benefits most, and step-by-step strategies for leveraging AI-powered search tools like ChatGPT, Perplexity, and Gemini to drive meaningful business growth. They cut through the hype, share actionable tactics, and provide candid industry insights about the viability of "GEO" as a growth channel.

Key Discussion Points

1. What is GEO? (AI Search Explained)

• Definition:
  • GEO means AI-based search using LLMs (Large Language Models) such as ChatGPT, Perplexity, and Gemini.
  • “It’s basically people querying and getting answers from LLMs.” (Greg, 04:21)
• How It’s Shifted the Landscape:
  • Unlike traditional Google searches, users are now consulting AI chatbots to research and compare options in-depth before making purchasing decisions.
  • “People are… using it as a research tool. This is why there’s this obsession: there’s a higher conversion percentage coming from chat to website signups.” (Cody, 02:41)

2. Is GEO Hype or a Real Opportunity?

• The Candid Take:
  • Cody bluntly calls it “hype”—at least in terms of search volume for now.
    • “I think it’s hype, right?... The only reason that you should be investing in it is if the product you’re building has a long purchasing decision time horizon.” (Cody, 01:01)
• Conversion vs. Volume:
  • AI search referrals convert at a much higher rate (10-40%), but total number of searches is still small compared to traditional Google.
    • “I’ve seen like 40%. Right. So it is a really high value customer. But just the volume again is so small.” (Cody, 05:04)
• Industry Segments that Benefit:
  • Local service businesses (e.g., HVAC, roofing), specialized or cult-favorite E-Commerce brands, and SaaS tools with complex buying cycles.

3. Mechanics: How Do AI Searches Work?

• AI "Fanning":
  • AI takes an initial user query and explodes it into dozens or hundreds of derivative queries (like a mind map/FAQ), then scrapes pages ranking in Google (usually top 1–3) for data.
    • “Imagine it takes that initial query…and writes a hundred different queries that are more descriptive… then it searches those individually on Google, on Bing.” (Cody, 08:19)
• Listicles and Brand Mentions Matter:
  • AI loves referencing listicles (top 10 lists, best-of pages) and prominent brand mentions in making its recommendations.

4. How to "Rank" in GEO AI Search

• Tactics:
  • Identify Source Pages: Use tools to find the URLs AI chatbots are referencing for queries relating to your product.
    • Tools mentioned: Prompt Watch, AI SEO Tracker, Try Profound, plus newer indie/enterprise tools.
    • “All you’re looking for is the URLs being referenced by AI search for queries that are related to your product.” (Cody, 12:50)
  • Get Your Brand Listed: Outreach to website owners and negotiate to add your brand to relevant pages, especially high-ranking listicles.
    • “Take those 45,000 URLs, go find the emails…and you’re basically like, ‘hey, I want to get added or included…What is the cost?’” (Cody, 12:50)
    • Typical cost shared: $500/link – “It’s actually crazy, right?” (Greg & Cody, 15:00)
  • Affiliate Offers Can Lower Costs: Suggesting high affiliate commissions can make placements cheaper.
  • Prioritize Impactful Links: Not every link is equal—focus on the pages most frequently referenced by AI for your target queries.

5. Tooling & Strategy Details

• Tool Landscape:
  • No de facto winner yet; most tools provide similar URL-tracking capabilities.
    • “There isn’t one yet. They’re all kind of… just trackers, right? Percent of brand mentions, which I don’t give a fuck about and you shouldn’t either.” (Cody, 20:33)
  • Ahrefs and Semrush anticipated to add GEO/AI Search tracking soon.
• SEO vs AI SEO:
  • Traditional SEO = slow, AI SEO = potentially immediate results from listicle placements.
    • “Old SEO takes years, new SEO takes days.” (Greg, 16:43)
• Don’t Get Distracted by Vanity Metrics:
  • Focus on actual referencing URLs, not percent-of-brand-mention metrics.

6. Risks and Final Thoughts

• Algorithmic Volatility:
  • GEO is subject to sudden changes—new LLM releases (like GPT-5) or algorithm updates can dramatically shift what is effective overnight.
    • “New model gets released and it just claps everybody…It’s a classic, right? New algorithm drops, everybody gets screwed.” (Cody, 22:47)
• GEO as Part of a Stack:
  • Don’t rely solely on AI search for traffic; it should complement—not replace—other marketing/growth channels.

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On Conversion Rates:
  • “People are so well researched that by the time they come to your startup they’re ready to pull out that credit card and spend…” – Greg (04:21)
• On AI Search Reality Check:
  • “It is a really high value customer. But just the volume again is so small.” – Cody (05:04)
• On How AI Search Pulls Answers:
  • “It goes and scrapes 1,000 pages, pulls those a thousand pages into the context window and then it answers the original query the user gave it.” – Cody (11:10)
• On Buying Placements:
  • “You’re basically like, ‘hey, I want to get added or included on this URL. What is the cost to do that?’” – Cody (12:50)
• On Link Value:
  • “When you’re paying for that link…you’re also building a backlink which helps total domain authority…There is that component as well.” – Cody (17:05)
• On Not Getting Attached to Vanity Metrics:
  • “Percent of brand mentions, which I don’t give a fuck about and you shouldn’t either.” – Cody (20:33)
• On Tools:
  • “All of them are doing the same thing: send synthetic data to these chats, see what’s referenced, look at the URLs…That’s every single one of them.” – Cody (21:49)
• On Platform Risk:
  • “You can get platformed just like with this, you can get platformed just like anything else.” – Cody (22:47)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Time | Segment | |-----------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00-01:01 | Introduction & Episode Goals | | 01:01-04:21 | Is GEO hype? Reality vs. volume & conversion | | 04:21-05:04 | Who AI search is for: long decision cycles, researched buyers | | 05:04-07:42 | Who benefits most: Local biz, high-consideration SaaS/ecom | | 08:19-11:10 | Technical breakdown: AI “fanning,” listicles, context windows | | 12:32-15:00 | Tactical: Tools, outreach, campaign, $500/link placements | | 16:43-17:05 | SEO vs. AI SEO, velocity advantages | | 17:05-19:54 | Debunking “write 1,000 blog posts” and the actual mechanics | | 19:54-21:39 | Tooling: Existing trackers, finding opportunity URLs | | 22:47-23:33 | Volatility, platform risk, why not to over-invest | | 23:33-end | Wrap-up, host gratitude, and closing thoughts |

Memorable Moments

• Cody’s blunt assessment of the AI search opportunity: “I’ll just be blunt right now. I think it’s hype, right? And here’s the reason…” (01:01)
• Greg reacting to $500 per link cost: “Wow. That’s crazy.” (15:00)
• Cody’s candor about not worrying about “percent of brand mentions”: “I don’t give a fuck about and you shouldn’t either.” (20:33)
• Comparison of old vs. new SEO timelines: “Old SEO takes years, new SEO takes days.” (Greg, 16:43)
• Reminder to keep AI search as part of a diversified stack: “You can get platformed just like with this, you can get platformed just like anything else.” (Cody, 22:47)

Actionable Takeaways

• If your product or service involves a longer research and consideration cycle, experiment with AI Search (GEO), but keep expectations about volume realistic.
• Use AI SEO tracker tools to identify target URLs and focus on getting included in authoritative listicles or resource pages.
• Don’t rely exclusively on this channel—algorithm shifts can happen overnight.
• Traditional SEO fundamentals still apply: authoritative backlinks and high-value mentions are still the backbone of visibility, both for AI and organic search traffic.

For more referenced tools and resources, check the show notes on Greg Isenberg’s website or the episode description.