CALIFORNIA ELECTION RESULTS; DAVE RUBIN; TED CRUZ

Summary

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The Stephen A. Smith Show – June 4, 2026

Episode Theme:
Stephen A. Smith goes beyond sports, exploring the seismic political shifts in California, the state of both parties nationally, and the evolution of American political culture. The episode features in-depth conversations with Senator Ted Cruz (on sweeping college sports legislation) and commentator Dave Rubin (on liberalism, conservatism, and today’s ideological divides).

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Episode Overview

Stephen A. broadcasts live from San Antonio ahead of the NBA Finals, but dives deep into politics and culture. The main focus is California’s surprising shift toward Republican candidates in the gubernatorial and Los Angeles mayoral races, what this upheaval signals for both parties, and why Democrats risk losing touch with voters. Significant segments include:

• The California elections as a national warning sign
• The GOP’s opportunities due to Democratic missteps
• An extended interview with Sen. Ted Cruz about new bipartisan college sports legislation
• A candid discussion with Dave Rubin on political tribes, wokeness, and the state of civil discourse

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

California Election Results: A Political Earthquake

[01:14 – 16:12]

• Republicans Surging in Blue State California:
  Stephen A. highlights the surprising advances of Republicans Steve Hilton (gubernatorial) and Spencer Pratt (LA mayoral), noting both are running as anti-establishment figures in a traditionally Democratic stronghold.

  “These are Republicans in a blue state like California. And right now you’re seeing the names of two Republicans making noise as if they’re about to be the next governor and the next mayor…in California and the city of Los Angeles.” – Stephen A. Smith [02:27]

• Why Are Voters Flipping?

  • Cost of living, homelessness, and crime are core issues.
  • Voters are willing to consider Republican/outsider candidates who directly address these crises.
  • Hilton’s focus on “affordability and quality of life” resonates beyond partisan divides.

• Democratic Missteps & Risk of Losing Touch:

  • Using examples like Gavin Newsom’s reaction to a blocked $1.8B slush fund and Jill Biden’s admissions post-2024 debate, Stephen A. argues that Democratic leaders appear out of touch and disingenuous.

  “Are you trying to win, or not?...Play to win. Talk about affordability, talk about crime, talk about homelessness, talk about inflationary concerns, talk about the kind of things that affect the American people’s wallet. Because that’s what they care about.” – Stephen A. Smith [08:25]

• Urgency for Democrats:

  • If Republicans win top races in California, it would kill Newsom’s presidential prospects and signal a larger, national rebuke.
  • Stephen A. warns both parties not to take any voting bloc for granted.

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Interview: Senator Ted Cruz on the Future of College Sports

[24:11 – 50:07]

Overview:

Senator Ted Cruz, Chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee, joins to discuss a major bipartisan bill addressing turmoil in college sports, including athlete compensation, eligibility, transfer rules, and more.

Key Takeaways and Policies:

• Why the Bill?

  • College sports are in “chaos”: abuse of transfer portals, schools cancelling programs, spiraling costs, and lawsuits “crippling” the NCAA.
  • Without intervention, “hundreds of thousands” of athletic opportunities—and non-revenue sports—are at risk.
  • The bill is co-authored with Sen. Maria Cantwell (D), requiring “painful” bipartisan compromise.

• Major Provisions:

  • Eligibility: Five-year limit, age cap at 24, restrictions on older/returning pros to preserve fair competition.

    “It’s not fair to have 28-year-old guys playing against 18-year-olds.” – Ted Cruz [27:39]

  • Transfers: One free transfer per athlete; further transfers only in special circumstances (coach leaves, sexual assault, etc.), otherwise athlete must sit out a year.
  • NIL Rights: Athletes fully retain name, image, and likeness rights.
  • Health & Safety: $60 million insurance fund for athletes, coverage for five years post-playing.
  • Revenue Sharing & Representation: Schools can negotiate TV/media together, must preserve non-revenue and women’s sports scholarships, and student-athletes gain larger representation.

• Bipartisanship and Compromise:

  • Bill leaves “student-athlete” employment status deliberately unresolved to win bipartisan backing.
  • Cruz ceded on direct rulemaking by NCAA and private rights of action—“not as far as I would have liked to go” [37:09].

• Addressing Systemic Issues:

  • “The system was unfair, everyone got rich except the athletes, that wasn’t right and it wasn’t fair.” – Ted Cruz [31:17]
  • Cruz stresses saving opportunities for “the 99%” who aren’t pro-bound.
  • Republicans and Democrats had to sit “six to eight hours a day” to hammer out a bill—rare in today’s polarized climate.

• Critiques & Opposition:

  • Some House Republicans (e.g., Brett Guthrie) argue the bill is too broad and ambiguous on employment status; Cruz insists compromise is essential or “nothing passes” [47:00].
  • Congressional Black Caucus linked college sports reform to voting rights/gerrymandering, derailing a broader version (the SCORE Act).

Memorable Moment:

“I tried to be ... an athlete. I was not nearly that cool. I was a college debater.” – Ted Cruz, joking about his background compared to Stephen A. [35:38]

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Interview: Dave Rubin on Political Identity, Liberalism, and Tribal Warfare

[51:24 – 101:13]

Personal Identity & Political Evolution [53:12 – 58:45]

• Dave Rubin explains his journey from “classical liberal” to (begrudgingly) conservative.
  • Classical liberalism = individual rights, property, limited government.
  • Progressive “wokeism” now dominates the left, making classical liberals like him politically homeless.

“Defending my liberal beliefs has become a conservative position.” – Dave Rubin [54:29]

• Rubin’s viral debate with Larry Elder marked the turning point; he refused to edit out his own intellectual defeat, beginning his ideological shift.

The Left, the Right, and the LGBTQ Community [58:50 – 65:40]

• Rubin, openly gay, says modern leftists are more intolerant of dissent among minorities than conservatives are.
  • “The bulk of the hate that I get related to my sexuality is from the left because they demand that I be a Democrat.” [59:24]
  • “The T’s have nothing to do with the other ones” (LGBT acronym), stressing trans issues are separate from gay ones [61:24].
• He credits conservatives for being more willing to “agree to disagree” today.

On Trump, Rhetoric, and Political Vitriol [65:40 – 71:27]

• Stephen A. presses Rubin about supporting Trump despite rhetorical incivility and allegations of “weaponizing” government.
  • Rubin defends Trump’s “showmanship” as both strategic and inextricable from who he is.
  • Both agree political rhetoric can dangerously affect everyday Americans, urging more responsible discourse.

Ron DeSantis, the Culture Wars, and the Florida Example [71:27 – 78:34]

• Rubin praises DeSantis for making Florida “boom” while noting controversy over slavery curriculum.
  • On the slavery controversy: “They weren’t saying that slavery in and of itself was good. The argument was that some slaves learned certain trades that actually were positive...” [72:40]
• Rubin urges focus on what’s working (like Florida's prosperity) instead of perpetual outrage.

On Conservatism, Policy, and Media [79:57 – 87:44]

• They debate whether Trump/Republicans have neglected the poor by cutting Medicaid, with Rubin insisting government programs are rife with fraud and inefficiency.
• On right-wing media’s rise: “The whole ecosystem really has been poisoned somehow... the pressures of fame and clicks... I think it’s broken a lot of brains.” – Dave Rubin [86:40]
• Rubin and Stephen A. bemoan polarization and the challenge of restoring “persuasion over tribal warfare.”

Looking Ahead: 2028 and Minority Outreach [89:42 – 100:56]

• Who’s Next?
  • Rubin: Marco Rubio is “the all-star” GOP pick; Pete Buttigieg is likely for Democrats (“they’re training him to sound like Obama”) [93:53].
• Would the U.S. elect a gay president? Both doubt it would currently happen; Rubin is indifferent, emphasizing equality over identity.
• Black Voters & the GOP: Rubin urges voting not to be “gift-wrapped” and both parties should “earn” the black vote; Stephen A. proposes black voters “vote Republican for one election” to ensure both parties court their vote [99:44].

Notable Closing Moment:

“Politics is not everything. In many ways you do for a living what I really wanted to do. I wanted to be an ESPN broadcaster when I was a kid… If I could get to do that for a living, I could probably ease up on the political thing pretty quickly.” – Dave Rubin [100:08]

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Notable Quotes

• On California’s political shift:
  “If people in a blue state like California are entertaining seriously about putting Republicans in charge gubernatorially and mayorally, could you imagine what other states…are contemplating doing?” – Stephen A. Smith [15:45]

• On Democratic missteps:
  “When you act like him [Trump], if not worse, and then you try to portray him as the absolute worst, you don’t look genuine... Play to win.” – Stephen A. Smith [08:25]

• On bipartisanship:
  "You don't live in a world where one party or the other can ram through what they want. The Senate is designed to operate so that both parties have to come together." – Ted Cruz [47:45]

• On political tribalism:
  “Maybe we don’t think about it properly, but maybe… we should be giving them [politicians] the cues… that we can do more of that [civil discourse].” – Dave Rubin [69:58]

• On the black vote:
  "Nothing needs to be gift-wrapped and handed to you. You need to be talking about the right things. You need to be plotting to do the right things." – Stephen A. Smith [19:59]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• CA elections/political landscape: 01:14 – 16:12
• Cruz interview (college sports): 24:11 – 50:07
• Rubin interview (political identity, LGBT, tribalism, 2028 race): 51:24 – 101:13

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Episode Summary

Stephen A. Smith uses his platform to issue a warning to Democrats and spotlight the realignment underway in California, arguing that parties must focus on “what affects the American people’s wallet” if they hope to win. His probing interviews highlight the importance of policy substance, authenticity, and civil discourse—while warning about the traps of both progressive “wokeness” and far-right tribalism. In the bipartisan Ted Cruz segment, we see rare, detailed insight into the “sausage-making” of major reforms, while Dave Rubin gives voice to a new coalition of “classical liberals” and conservatives dissatisfied with extremism on both ends.

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This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in how culture wars, policy debates, and shifting alliances are reshaping American politics in 2026.

Transcript

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[Stephen A. Smith]

approval Straight Shooter with Stephen A.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

Welcome to the latest edition of Straight Shooter, coming at you as I love to do every Wednesday night from 6 to 8pm Eastern Standard Time over the airways of SiriusXM POTUS radio channel 124. As always, the number to call up is 86696 POTUS. That's 86696 POTUS.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But this is not a day that

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

I'm planning on taking a lot of phone calls. The reason for that being is that I'm coming at you live from San Antonio, Texas, home of the San Antonio spurs, site of tonight's Game one of

[Stephen A. Smith]

the NBA Finals between the New York

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

Knicks and the San Antonio Spurs. Game one. Obviously there's a political show and I've got some things on my mind and I think the thing that needs to be brought up more than anything is

[Stephen A. Smith]

the state of California because I think

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it's emblematic of what's happening in this

[Stephen A. Smith]

country and we gotta stop walking around

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and acting like we turning a blind eye and a deaf ear to this stuff.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Know what the hell we're talking about here.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

I don't know if y' all see what's going on. I don't know if y' all seen what's going on.

[Stephen A. Smith]

There's an open primary for the gubernatorial race in California and it appears that

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

Steve Hilton is likely to advance, while in the city of Los Angeles, mayoral

[Stephen A. Smith]

candidate Spencer Pratt appears likely Although has

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

not yet been officially projected everywhere.

[Stephen A. Smith]

These are Republicans in a blue state like California. And right now you're seeing the names of two Republicans making noise as if they're about to be the next governor and the nest and the next mayor of the state of California in the city of Los Angeles. Listen, as I've told you all on

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

many, many occasions, I'm a centrist. I'm a guy who's fiscally conservative and socially liberal.

[Stephen A. Smith]

If we talking about taxes, whether they state, federal or whatever, or city, of

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course, you know what?

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm a guy that leans right. I ain't trying to spend all. I ain't trying to give all my money away in taxes. Not all of it. Not like some of these fools want

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people to think they want to say.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You got people walking around here in the United States of America talking about, I don't care if they take 75, 80% of my money, as long as it goes to universal healthcare, I'm good. That's. That ain't Stephen A. That ain't happening. I'm not that dude. I don't work my ass off to give up 75, 80% of my money in taxes. And I don't think most sensible human beings anywhere, whether it's in America or anywhere else, feels the same.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

If it feels any differently, hell no.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But having said all of that, California certainly gives you that impression. And I recently got so annoyed because I'm watching Governor Gavin Newsom sit up there and lamenting the fact that Trump and that 1.8 billion, billion dollar slush fund that the Republicans wisely shot down, by the way, and looks like they

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

prevented from happening for him.

[Stephen A. Smith]

When he was talking about that Gavin

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Newsom, you know what?

[Stephen A. Smith]

His vitriol, his disgust, it made perfect sense right up until a moment he said, anybody from California who gets any dollars from that slush fund, I want to tax 100%. Oh, so it's about you. So it's about you. You trying to get some money out of it now. That's what you trying to do. You ain't talking about preventing them from getting the money. You talking about making sure you get some of it, if not all of.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

See, this is what the damn problem is.

[Stephen A. Smith]

This is what the problem is in the state of California. That's why you got so many corporations of people leaving your asses. You understand? That's why it's going to get to a point where the city's going to be driven right into the damn ocean, because you're not going to have businesses in the state of California, they're going to ultimately depart. And when they depart, you're going to have to tax other folks and folks that are going to be left to tax or the middle class people that you have there, because the businesses you're going to run right out of the damn state. But that's neither here nor there. The reason why I'm bringing all of this up is because whether it's Spencer Pratt or whether it's this guy Steve

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

Hilton, it's making perfect sense about what's

[Stephen A. Smith]

happening in the state of California right now. In the state of California. The question right now is, is it suddenly going to turn red? Voters in the bluest major state in America has elevated two candidates running explicitly against the political establishment. One is a Republican former Fox News host and the other is a reality TV star in the state of California. With Silicon Valley in the state, with Hollywood in the state, with Southern California sunshine as the backdrop that everybody salivates over and gravitates to that state instead of focusing on it being blue as always been, now you got people saying, damn all of that. What's Hilton's message? What's Hilton's message, ladies and gentlemen? Have you listened to his message? Because if you haven't, you should. What his message has been is Republicans can still compete in the state. Why? If you focus on affordability and quality of life, that's a language everybody understands. How do we know this? Who has not been complaining about their gas prices? Who hasn't been playing, complaining about their rent? Who hasn't been playing, complaining about the price of groceries? Who hasn't been complaining about this stuff? Now, I know it's quick to be easy to say, well, you know what, it's Trump because he's the president and what kind of improvements has he made? I got that part. But the fact is, the Democratic establishment that has been in the state of California has been in the state of California for decades. So you don't get to blame a dude that just arrived on the scene and say it was all his fault. When you were doing this stuff for years and Steve Hilton has tacked, has gravitated and attached himself to that message. And as a result, Californians are paying attention. They're paying attention Pratt's performance. What does that suggest for you in a heavily Democratic state? What does that suggest to you when you think about Spencer Pratt and what he's doing right now? That's very simple. Voters are willing to consider the Republican adjacent candidate if they're unhappy with city leadership on homelessness, crime, wildfire preparedness, and cost of living. Once again, we get back to cost of living. Once again, we get back to homelessness. Once again, we get back to crime. Because, ladies and gentlemen, you know where crime will permeate when people have nothing to lose because they don't have shit. That's how. That's how. And that's exactly what's going on in the state of California. And the reason why this is so important is because. What did I tell y'?

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

All?

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I told y' all before, Trump made

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

a huge mistake when he tried to

[Stephen A. Smith]

get this slush fund, that's $1.8 billion slush fund that he was trying to push through. It was called some anti weaponization act with their bogus nonsense. That's taxpayer money. And not only was he trying to get the money, he was trying to be the one that conducted a panel that would decide who got what. Like, let me get this straight. This grifter, who's unapologetic about it, who happens to be the President of the United States, gets a hold of $1.8 billion of taxpayer money. Right. And he's going to have power and dominion over where and how the money is allocated. Right. And none of it's going to go to him. Does that sound like him? Do you believe him to be that philanthropic, that charitable, that he would take $1.8 billion and not put a dime of it in his own pocket? Do you really believe that? So, of course it was wise for the Republicans to shoot it down. And maybe they did it for different reasons. Maybe they did it not just because it was a bad look. Maybe they did it not just because it was wrong. Maybe they did it to get back at him for endorsing Kim Paxton for the Senate seat in Texas instead of a longtime Republican and a huge Republican fundraiser. And Senator John Cornyn, whatever way you slice it, there's a reason these kind of things are happening. There's a reason these things have transpired. And in the end, it brings us back to a bigger point, which is what I've been saying for the longest time. And it's really pissing me off that people still don't get this message, message to the Democrats. Are you trying to win or not? Are you trying to win? Gavin Newsom, Respectfully, sir, be quiet. We go beyond him and we get to this situation with Jill Biden, everybody making news, talking about Stephen A, you know, destroy with the same old YouTube algorithm they trying to feed. Stop with the nonsense and listen to what the Hell, I said for a second, you are the former first lady of the United States. Your husband at the time is the President of the United States. He is clearly of lesser capacity than he once was. He does not have all his faculties in order. It is June 27th of 2024. At no time do you see a presidential debate between a Republican and a Democrat, an incumbent versus somebody aspiring to capture the presidency. And a debate takes place in June. It's usually September and beyond after the national conventions for the Democratic and the Republican parties. But that's not what happened this June 27th in 2024. Oh, no. Joe Biden was put there on center stage. And you had commentators literally say on national television, he looked like an elderly patient in a nursing home waiting for his applesauce to be fed to him. And this woman, his wife, the former first lady, goes out there in front of the microphones with the cameras working and say, you. You were wonderful. You answered all the questions. Really? Really. And then now it's almost two years later, and what does she do with a book to sell? She admits she thought he had a stroke. He was so awful. He was so bad that night. He was so unlike himself. She thought he actually had a stroke. So, in other words, with gubernatorial races set to come about, with mayoral races going, coming about, with the midterms coming about, you gonna go out there on center stage and admit on behalf of the Democratic Party that you and the rest of them will line through their teeth. And you think that's gonna help y' all win? What am I missing? What am I missing? This kind of nonsense is what I'm talking about. This is the kind of stuff that's got to be eradicated. This is the reason that Steve Hilton and Spencer Pratt are candidates in the second largest state in the country, in California, because of nonsense like this. And, oh, I call it out, and I'm being anti Democrat. No, I'm being pro Democrat. I'm trying to tell you how to win and how to avoid losing and looking like a bunch of lying asses. That's what I'm trying to avoid. I'm trying to help you out and make you understand you can't do that. I'm not rooting against you. I'm rooting for you. I'm not a fan of Donald Trump, but the bottom line is, when you act like him, if not worse, and then you try to portray him as the absolute worst, you don't look genuine and authentic. You look disingenuous. Play to win. Play to win. Talk about affordability, talk about crime, talk about homelessness, talk about inflationary concerns, talk about the kind of things that affect the American people's wallet. Because that's what they care about. That's what they care about. Gerrymandering, redistricting, and parlaying that into a conversation about race. Don't you understand that's not going to resonate with people who can't pay their bills. They're not going to care about your issues. They're going to care about their pocketbook and their wallets, and that is going to determine how they're going to vote. Democrats are not losing everywhere. And it does appear like they're gaining momentum right up until a moment they open their damn mouths and say something stupid and then, as a result, draws you back to the nonsense that got them out of office in the first damn place. That's what you're trying to avoid. It's nonsense. It's not intelligent. I've never seen a candidate in my life like Trump who gives you ammunition on a silver platter, and a party like the modern day Democratic Party, led by the extreme progressives. Because I'm not talking about the centrist, I'm not talking about the reasonable Democrats. I'm talking about the progressive left trying to pull you further and further and further left. I've never seen people who invent ways to blow it. It's like the dude that was a virgin all of these years and stays a virgin because the minute, no matter how attractive he may be to a woman, no matter how much he may want him, the minute he opens his mouth, he turns her off. This is what, this is what the Democratic Party does these days. They just invent ways to screw it up for themselves. It's like they can't help themselves. They can't just shut up and let the man implode. It's amazing. But either way you slice it, a

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

message has been sent.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And that message has been sent is very, very simple. If people in a blue state like California are entertaining seriously about putting Republicans in charge gubernatorially and mayorally, could you imagine what other states in this union are contemplating doing? Could you imagine what an indictment that

[Dave Rubin]

is

[Stephen A. Smith]

against Democrats everywhere? Let me tell you something right now. If Hilton wins the gubernatorial race and Pratt wins the mayor's seat in New York, Gavin Newsom has no chance at the presidency in 2028. Zero. If that happens. If that happens, he has no chance. Because to indict California is to indict him. He's been the governor since 2018. Fair or unfair. That's how it is. And everybody needs to accept that. That's the way it goes. I try to avoid these subjects, I truly do. But I want to make sure that everybody understands how serious I am. When I bring up the fact, these facts about one party over the other, it's because I resent. I resent the fact that some people say, why don't you get under Republicans more? Well, the Republicans. You can't have it both ways. You can't sit up there and say that they never put forth an agenda or haven't.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

At least since the Voting Rights act of 1965. The.

[Stephen A. Smith]

They haven't put forth an agenda that benefits the black community at all, that they don't think about the black community and then get on me for not getting on them. Well, if they don't care about my

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

vote, why would I concentrate on them?

[Stephen A. Smith]

But if you're the Democratic Party and you're in my face pretending to care about my vote and my interest, then once you get elected, you do things antithetical to what you campaigned on, I'm going to have a problem with you. Because they're not the ones who hoodwinked me. You were. They're not the ones that convinced me that they had my issues and my agenda and my interest on their mind. You did that. And they're not going to be perceived as the ones who turned their backs on me because they weren't the ones who were pursuing me. You were. This is what we need to realize. This is the kind of thought process we need to embrace and we need to keep an open mind. Me personally, I'm not going to tell you that I'm happy about what's happening, but I love the idea of people keeping an open mind and making sure everyone understands that every vote needs to be earned. Nothing needs to be gift wrapped and handed to you. You need to be talking about the right things. You need to be plotting to do the right things. You need to have the attitude, the mentality and the soul and the commitment to do the right thing. We don't know that about Hilton or Pratt in California for the gubernatorial and the mayoral seat, respectively, in Los Angeles. But what we do know is that whatever message that they're giving is resonating in a way that Karen Bass and other Democrats in California are not resonating. You got candidates daring to go to the highways and go to the streets of downtown LA so they can show you the homelessness ravaging the area. That's got to be done about it. I am in no way sitting here and telling you that I'm a supporter of the Republicans with the trifling stuff that they've tried to do. What I'm trying to say is that the Democrats ain't been much better. And so now instead of looking at parties, we got to look at individuals. The hell with the parties.

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You got to look at the individual that appeals to us most.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And you know what I'm looking for? If I'm a Democrat looking for a Democratic candidate, I'm looking. I'm just going to say it. This is controversial, but I'm going to say it. I'm looking for a candidate that's going to look at the fringes on both sides and tell them to kiss my ass. That's what I'm looking for. You extreme left. I don't want nothing to do with your identity politics, your cancel culture, your woke culture. I want nothing to do with that. You the right. I don't want anything to do with maga. I want sensible people in office that have ideas that are in the best interest of the American citizen, while in the same breath letting you know I'm going to keep an open mind for what may be better than the ideas that I presented because my ultimate interest is in the betterment of the American people and society, not my own damn pockets. Trump is clearly not that guy. What you in Iran for? I thought it was a peace deal that was close to y' all launching missiles against one another earlier today. What the hell you talking about golf courses and hotels in Gaza for? The hell's going on? You can't trust a man as far as you could throw on. With the stuff we've been hearing,

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

The Democratic Party don't seem much better.

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We got to pray a lot this year. We got to get on our knees and pray that we gonna have a candidate or candidates that genuinely think about

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America ahead of themselves.

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We really do.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

Because right now, I don't think we have it.

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Got a couple of guests coming up. One is going to be popular podcaster Dave Rubin got millions of subscribers and followers. Former Democrat, terror Republican that supports a lot of the Republican candidates these days. Got a lot to say about both parties.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

I think you'll be interested in hearing it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

He's really popular. Wait till you see what he has to say. That's one thing. Another guest is going to be Senator Ted Cruz, who I interviewed a few days ago. He's got some very interesting things to talk about involving college sports. Because no matter how your politics are and how you feel. Don't tell me you don't love college sports. And with what Senator Cruz has orchestrated and what he's striving to do, quite frankly, I thought it was something that needed to be heard by the American people. That's why I brought him on the show to talk about it. Both of those guests are coming up next, so stick around. You're listening live to Straight Shooter with George Truly, Stephen A. Right Here on Sirius XM POTUS radio, channel 124. Back with my guest and more in a minute. The World cup is the biggest sporting

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[Dave Rubin]

Why have I asked my electrician I found on Angie.com to bury my pet hamster? I was so moved by how carefully he buried my electrical wires, I knew I could trust him to bury my sweet nibbles after his untimely end. This is very strange, Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home [e-mail].

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

He is here. My guest today is a senator from the great state of Texas and the Chairman of the U.S. senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation. He is here to discuss newly proposed legislation in college sports. Please welcome Senator Ted Cruz. How are you sir? How's everything going? It's good to see you again, Stephen.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Good to see you. I'm doing fantastic. How are you doing?

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

I'm doing okay. So tell us about this, about this legislation that's being proposed. Just break it down for us in your words.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Well, sure. Look, you and I have talked before about the crisis that college sports faces. Right now. We've got, I think, chaos in college sports which results in athletes going through the transfer portal over and over and over again. It results in entire programs having to rebuild every year. We're seeing Week after week, different schools that are canceling programs, they're canceling women's sports, they're canceling track and field, they're canceling tennis. And schools are caught in an out of control spending spiral where they're losing tens of millions of dollars. And I think we're at a real risk of seeing an awful lot of schools having to shut down major parts of their athletic programs. And so there's a need for Congress to step in and act. And you and I have discussed before, I've spent three years working trying to get a bipartisan coalition for Congress to act to bring stability to the programs, to protect, to protect the scholarships that we've got across the country, to protect college sports. This week, finally, we announced bipartisan legislation, legislation that I drafted along with Democrat Maria Cantwell. As you noted, I'm the chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee. She is the ranking member, the senior Democrat on the Commerce Committee. We also have on the legislation Eric Schmidt, Republican from Missouri, and Chris Coons, Democrat from Delaware. So it's bipartisan legislation designed to put in place some basic rules, to provide some order and to stop the chaos. And I think there's real momentum and I'm happy to talk about the specifics as is helpful.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

Well, I want to know from a plausible perspective, what's the chances of this getting pushed forward? I know the president obviously was involved. He convened an abundance of people in the nation's capital months ago. What's the chances of this being pushed through? Because to be fair to our listeners right here, I want to let everybody know you're not some Johnny come lately with this issue. There's a lot of politicians that jumped on board. You've been on this for years, even when the Democrats were in office. This has been something that has been near and dear to you. In terms of what you want to discuss, what's the chances of this being pushed through?

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Look, Stephen, I'm actually quite optimistic. I believe we're going to get this done in the Senate. For any legislation to move, it has to be bipartisan. The Senate rules require 60 votes. There are only 53 Republicans. That means you need a minimum of seven Democrats. My hope is for this bill to get a lot more than 60 votes. I'd like to see it come out of the Senate with an overwhelming bipartisan vote because that would give it a lot of momentum in the House. I talked to President Trump last night about it. He's enthusiastic about the bill. I've been spending a lot of time talking to university presidents Athletic directors, coaches, talking to stakeholders who care desperately about it. And I think there are a lot of folks right now that are reaching out and urging senators, both Democrat and Republican, to get on board with this bipartisan bill. Look, there are a lot of elements of this that are common sense. So for example, eligibility, the current chaos is you just have lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit. And you have athletes that have six, seven years eligibility. You have athletes that are playing when they're 26, 27, 28 years old. You have former pros going back and playing college ball. Well, what we've written into this bill is clear eligibility rules, that every athlete has five years of eligibility, that 24 is the age cap and at the end of 24, that's it. So that it's not fair to have 28 year old guys playing against 18 year olds. There's just too big a difference in age there that gives some certainty. Likewise, on the transfer portal, what we've written in is every athlete gets one free transfer. You can transfer wherever you want, one free transfer. After that you can have a second transfer if you meet specified circumstances. So if your coach leaves, you can have a second transfer. If your program is canceled, you can transfer. Or if you've been a victim of sexual assault or sexual harassment. But other than that, if you transfer, you have to red shirt for a year, you have to sit out for a year. That is similar to how the old rule used to be. And you know, Stephen, my focus on this has really been trying to preserve the system for all the athletes. You know, they're right now more than a half million college athletes in America right now playing. And if we keep on the path where we're on today, hundreds of thousands of those athletic positions are going away. And I don't want to see that happen because this has been, you know, the way I approach it is not focusing on the superstars. Listen, the Michael Jordans of the world, the Arch Mannings of the world, they're going to do fine. They're going to continue to do fine. But 99% of college athletes are never going to play in the NFL, never going to play in the NBA. But college athletics gets them to school, gets them a university degree, gets them the life skills and discipline and teamwork that helps them succeed. And it's that 99% whose opportunities are really at risk right now. And that's why I think Congress needs to act to, to save college sports.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

One of the things that I wanted to talk to, and that's why I'm so Glad. I really appreciate your time coming on the show, Senator. But I got to tell you, when I, when, when I look at this issue, I get where you're coming from. Here's what bothers me. It's chaos, just like you said. Something has to be done. There's no denying that. I sort of get the impression that the ncaa, this has happened on purpose just to provoke government intervention because of something they allowed to get out of control because of the years of exploitation that they engaged in to such a

[Stephen A. Smith]

degree that even Supreme Court Justice Brett

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

Kavanaugh and Neil Gorsuch spoke out against the NCAA in that regard. What do you have to say to people that look at this situation and say college sports, particularly the NCAA as an institution, deserve their comeuppance? The chaos that they're experiencing right now, why should the government come in and rescue them? What do you say to people who are cynics of them? Not necessarily you guys?

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Yeah, look, and by the way, you ought to be cynics of politicians especially. So I get there's a lot to be cynical about. But, but listen, NCAA has made lots of mistakes in the past and there's no doubt the old system was unfair. One of the important things this bill does is protects the rights of athletes to receive nil genuine name, image and likeness compensation to participate in revenue sharing. It is only right and fair that if someone develops incredible skills, they worked really, really hard, they ought to be able to enjoy the fruits of their labor. And I think that is important. I think the old system where everyone got rich except the athletes, that wasn't right and it wasn't fair. So we want to protect that and this bill does that, but we also want to make sure that we don't destroy the system. I think if Congress doesn't act, we are three to five years away from seeing a 30 to 50 college football programs and every other program going under because most of the programs are losing millions and even tens of millions of dollars and we'd end up with basically a mini NFL and the other programs going away. And we're also seeing all of the non revenue sports, Olympic sports, women's sports, track and field, tennis being canceled over and over and over again. And that's a terrible outcome. Part of this chaos was caused by Congress because Congress under the antitrust laws passed the antitrust laws and the NCAA right now I think feels crippled because any rule they try to put in place, they get sued under the antitrust laws and they lose. And so there are no rules. And so what we're trying to do is step in and say, let's preserve the system so that, look, over years and decades, millions of young men and women have a chance to get an education, have a chance to succeed in life, because, you know, there's no country on earth that has something like college sports in America. The opportunities we have are extraordinary. And I think right now they are in incredible jeopardy. And so this is designed to preserve that part of this bill mandates. There are two sides to this bill. We looked at the cost side and the revenue side. On the cost side, we tried to prevent just the constant spiraling escalation that is effectively pricing a lot of programs out of being able to compete. We wanted to slow down that spiral. On the revenue side, we looked at, okay, how can we increase the pie? How can we increase the revenue that college sports generates? And so this bill allows for college teams to pool their revenue and negotiate collectively for media rights. That impact, I think, will generate a whole lot more money for sports. And, Stephen, what we do is we require that if a program comes together and negotiates for pooled media rights, that they have to preserve all of their scholarship slots and all of their roster slots for women's sports, for non revenue sports, for Olympic sports. And so it's designed to protect everyone. Yes, the superstars, but protect everyone else, too.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

You became the Senate Commerce Committee chairman in January of 2025 and said this would be a top priority, which it has been. It is now May of 2026. However, what took so long and what does that say about Washington's ability to solve real problems that real fans and athletes are living through every single day?

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Yeah, look, Stephen, it's a tough environment in Washington right now because politics is so polarized, the two sides, we don't talk to each other very much. And this is true all across the country where left and right, you've got with social media. The left listens to left wing media, the right listens to right wing media. You unfriend anyone who disagrees with you, and we're just yelling at each other. I mean, we're in echo chambers where you only hear your side of the story. And I wish we would come together and talk with each other more and we can have reasoned disagreements like adults and rational people. You know, I think back to when I was a college debater. Look, you were an athlete. I was not nearly that cool. I was a college debater.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

I tried to be,

[Senator Ted Cruz]

but, you know, look, when I was in college, I was the head of the conservative party. In college, and one of my closest friends was the head of the Liberal Party. And we'd have a debate and, you know, he'd call me a fascist, I'd call him a communist, and then we'd go have a beer, and it was just, you know, you didn't hate each other. I'd like to see us get back to that world. The challenge getting here has been negotiating a bipartisan agreement that both sides could. Could get to Maria Cantwell, who is my lead partner in doing this. The last month, she and I have literally been sitting down, negotiating six to eight hours a day, just. Just sitting there, provision after provision after provision, and both of us had to compromise. We had to give in. This is not exactly the bill I would have drafted. This is not exactly the bill she would have drafted. We had to find some common ground that would actually fix the problem, but that you could get both Republicans and Democrats to come together. And I think we've done a pretty good job of that. And so my hope is that we will see senators from both sides saying college sports is too important to let us sit idly by while it's destroyed.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

Highlight specifically, Senator, what sacrifices you made in ultimately coming to the. Coming to be able to draft this bill. When you say you didn't get everything you wanted, what was it that you didn't want that you were willing to work with the other side in order to reach this agreement?

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Thus far, yeah. I'll give you three examples of concessions I made. So I filed a bill about a year and a half ago so you could see the bill that I would have filed. It's what I filed previously. I would have simply empowered conferences in the NCAA to make rules concerning eligibility in the transfer portal and left it to them to figure out the specifics. That would be my preference. Senator Cantwell did not want to do that. She had a lot of distrust of the ncaa, and she said, look, I'm not going to give them the power to go make rules, but if we write the rules, then we can let them enforce them. And so we sat down. I told you the transfer portal rules. She and I wrote that, look, I'm not an expert in this. My instinct would be, let others who are more expert decide it. But if the only way to get this done was for us to write the rules, I said, fine, let's try to do the very best we can to come up with a rule that makes sense. So that was a concession. A second concession, a big area of dispute between Democrats and Republicans is Whether student athletes are employees, I would like to say categorically they're not employees. There are all sorts of legal burdens and problems that come with characterizing them as employees. So my old version of the bill said unequivocally they are not employees. The Senate Democrats were completely unwilling to sign on to a bill that said they were not employees. And so if you insist on saying they're not employees, you get no Democrats and nothing passes. And so what we did here is we cut a compromise, is we refer throughout the bill to those competing as student athletes. That's the term we use. And then we have a provision that says the bill is neutral on the question of employment status. We're not answering it one way or the other, and we're doing nothing to change the employment status or non employment status of a student athlete. That's a compromise. That's not as far as I would have liked to go. But by the way, that's a compromise for the Democrats as well. So it was a middle ground. Okay. And the third example I'll point to you is there are a lot of these rights that we give student athletes all sorts of rights. Health and safety, more healthcare coverage, safety standards. And then we create a series of private rights of action. Private right of action means an athlete can file a lawsuit to go enforce the standards in the bill. I would have preferred not creating those private rights of action. By creating them, there'll be a lot more litigation. But that was a compromise that I had to give in order to get Democrats on board and for them to believe there'd be real teeth in the provision. So those are examples of the kind of concessions that you had to make to find a middle ground.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

Senator Ted Cruz, you convinced the White House to shut down President Trump's first presidential commission on college sports In May of 2025, if I remember correctly. Because you wanted to handle this legislatively. That was considered a very, very bold move at the time. As I remember it, if the bill fails, do you believe that was still the right call to make? And where do you go from here?

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Well, listen, the President did ultimately create a commission on college sports, and I went and participated in the discussions of it. I've worked very closely with the leadership of that commission. The President hosted a roundtable a couple of months ago that I was part of. That was a really good discussion. It was a good discussion about all of these problems and challenges. I'm glad the President did so. I spent 20 minutes on the phone with the President last night talking about this and other issues. And the President is really eager to see Congress solve this. The President can do some things through executive order, but to fix this problem, we need legislation. So the President was enthusiastic. We got to get bipartisan agreement to get something to pass. And so he was really happy that we were able to get, right now, two Senate Democrats. I think we will get more. I think at the end of the day, the coalition is going to be really broad. And I view the President's leadership and what we're doing is very close. Randy Levine has played a leading role on that commission. The President of the New York Yankees. Randy's become a good friend and he's done a really good job. He talks with the President frequently. He talks with me frequently, talks with Maria Cantwell frequently. And Randy's played a really important part of just bringing the sides together. I think that's been really helpful.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

The revenue sharing gap is at 20.5 million per school. So a starting quarterback at Ohio State or the University of Georgia might generate about 50 million in value to that program alone. Some people would say, is Congress artificially suppressing what a free market would otherwise pay a young athlete, in your estimation? Or do you think otherwise?

[Senator Ted Cruz]

So I don't believe we are. What we do create is the ability to enforce constraints, but we don't mandate where those constraints would be. And so right now, what was agreed in the House litigation settlement was a cap of about 20.5 million, increasing with inflation. In the bill, we say, look, you've got the power to enforce whatever you agree the limitation should be, but you can also choose to raise that limitation like that. We're not putting a thumb on the scale of what the cap should be, but we are saying that it can't just be an unlimited bidding war because you'd end up with 30, 40, 50 schools that could afford it. In my home state of Texas, the University of Texas at A and M, they can outbid just about anybody. And I'm a huge. I go to a lot of games. I love cheering on the Longhorns, I love cheering on the Aggies. But I don't want to see a scenario where those are the only two football teams in Texas where you see Baylor and Texas Tech and Houston and Rice and TCU and SMU and all those school go under. That would be a terrible thing if those football programs went away. And. And so I think there needs to be just. Just like in. In other sports. Look, the NBA, the NBA, they agree on a salary cap. And, and if there wasn't you just have a constant bidding war, and. And you would end up with a handful of teams that could afford to compete, and everyone else would not be able to be competitive. That's not any fun to watch, and it's not good for the sport.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

Are you an advocate? I mean, where does this bill stand? Rather, I think a better way to frame the question is where does this bill stand as it pertains to collective bargaining? Because I've always been a proponent. Collectively bargain, make sure that the student athlete has representation. Have somebody in there negotiate with the ncaa, collectively bargain for all of these things to be in place. And then that way that, you know, just like you do with the NBA, the NFL, or anything else, you lean on that if you're the courts, to make sure that you support whatever's collectively agreed upon. What about that?

[Senator Ted Cruz]

So the bill is deliberately silent on the question of collective bargaining. But what we do is we mandate athlete representation at every level. So we mandate significantly increased athlete representation within the ncaa. We allow schools to join together and negotiate for pooled media rights, and we mandate athlete representation there. We also create a legislative commission to study and make recommendations on the future of college sports, and we mandate very significant athlete representation there. So a big focus of this negotiation was making sure we're protecting the athletes. And I think if and when this bill is signed into law, student athletes will have their rights to receive compensation protected. They will have much greater health insurance. We create a $60 million health insurance trust fund to provide funding for health insurance so that student athletes have health insurance covered not just while they're playing, but for five years after for injuries or diseases that happen while you're playing or through your playing. So that's expanding the coverage, expanding the protection for athletes. Those are big improvements in the status quo. But we do it in a way where. Where the less wealthy schools can continue to participate. Look, I think Division 2, Division 3, you look at the historically black colleges and universities, you've got a lot of schools that field teams, and it's a big part of who they are, that if the cost spirals get crazy, they can't afford it. And so this is designed to protect those guys.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

One free transfer per career. Want to get back to that for a second? That's the ceiling if this passes. But coaches can still leave after one season. Why does a head coach have more mobility than the athlete he recruited?

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Well, we actually have a new rule we put in this bill that, that we're calling the Lane Kiffin rule.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That, that.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

That's that says that you can't. A coach can't leave and start with a new program during the season or during the playoffs. And basically what we did is we. We copied the NFL's rule that, look, if you want to go poach a coach, you can do that in the off season, but it's not fair or right to a bunch of young athletes who are working with the coach in the middle of the season or middle of the playoffs suddenly have the coach or the athletic director or the offensive coordinator take off and go somewhere else and go to a competitor. And so, you know, that is limiting some of the abuses. There's no doubt there have been abuses on the coach side, too. And so that rule was designed to try to address that directly.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

This opposition from House Energy and Commerce Chair Brett Guthrie and Education and Workforce Chairman Tim Wahlberg. They blasted the bill for broadening the legislation scope and failing to address whether student athletes should be treated as employees. What is your response to that?

[Senator Ted Cruz]

So, look, they're friends. I actually was exchanging texts with Brett Guthrie last night and today, listen, I actually agree with his substantive points. When you asked about what concessions I made, Brett wants to say unequivocally, student athletes are not employees. I do, too. The bill I filed, my own bill says that the challenge which I told Brett, as I said, look, I agree with you. 0 Senate Democrats agree with us. So if we insist upon that, what we're saying is no bill's gonna pass because if you don't get any Democrats, you can't get 60 votes and you're done. Got it. So from my end, I think the problem is big enough. We gotta solve it. And that's why I tried to think creatively and reach a compromise that was midway between where I want to be and where Brett wants to be and where the Democrats want to be. And I think the need to solve it means his points. And he also complained about the private rights of action. He says there's going to be litigation from this. He's right. There is going to be litigation from this. I think it is much better than the status quo. And so we don't live in a world where one party or the other can ram through what they want. The Senate is designed to operate so that both parties have to come together. So that's what we've tried to do here.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

Gotta know you gotta go. I gotta go. We gotta hard out soon. Thank you so much for your time, Senator 10 Cruz, but I gotta. I'd be remiss and neglecting to ask you this question. The Congressional Black Caucus killed the Student Compensation and Opportunity through Rights and Endorsements Act 9 days ago by linking college sports reform to voting rights and gerrymandering, that battle has now gone away. How do you get to 60 votes, 60 Senate votes, with that dynamic in the room, especially when you got Trump's executive order deadline coming up August 1st. How do you do this?

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Yeah, look, what I would say. The SCORE act in the House, I think a lot of people worked really hard on that. They worked in good faith. It ultimately did not have broad enough bipartisan support to pass. I respect all the hard work they did on the SCORE Act. This takes a very different approach. This is a much more limited approach. It is targeted legal protections rather than broad antitrust immunity. As I said, it has a compromise on the employment issue. This is an issue. Look, I gotta say, if you're concerned about the minority community, if you're concerned about African Americans and Hispanics, and you and I are both concerned about minority communities, seeing college sports blown up, seeing hundreds of thousands of scholarships going away, and the opportunity for young men and young women, many from economically disadvantaged environments, seeing the opportunity for them to go and get a college degree and compete in college athletics, that's not helping the minority community. I think preserving those opportunities is a much bigger legacy, helping those communities have a better future.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

Senator Ted Cruz in the House. Straight shooter with Stephen A. Smith right here over SiriusXM Portus radio, channel 124. You promised me you would be here. I appreciate you keeping your word. Thank you so much.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Had a wonderful.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Thank you.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

We could have talked for another half hour, but we don't have time. You're a busy man. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much and good luck moving forward. We'll talk soon.

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[Dave Rubin]

Straight shooter with Stephen A. Who are a minority or an oppressed minority as they like. They like you to be perfectly oppressed. And I don't consider myself oppressed. I happen to be gay. Unfortunately, because I don't view my sexuality as an oppression, the left has really no use for me. I mean, that's not to say I don't get any hate from, say more religious conservatives on the right. I do for sure, and I'm not denying that. But the bulk of the hate that I get related to my sexuality is from the left because they demand that I be a Democrat.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

I've been waiting a while to get this. This next guest on on the show. I've been on his show twice. He's blessing us with this presence right now. He's a conservative political commentator, some would say a YouTuber, of course, a host of the popular podcast the Reuben Report. Millions upon millions of followers. The one and only Mr. Dave Rubin is here with me right now. What's going on, man?

[Stephen A. Smith]

How you doing?

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

How's everything thing?

[Dave Rubin]

It's good to be with you. I appreciate that you said some would say conservative podcaster because.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

Right, that's right.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

I'm a little of this, a little

[Dave Rubin]

of that, kind of like you. But I hope we can duke it out here, find something we disagree on and really, I'm sure we will.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm sure we will.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

I'm sure we will. Especially since you lie about be. Especially since you lie about beating me in basketball contest. But we'll get to that another time. We'll get to that a little bit later on.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay?

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

We'll get to that a little bit later. All right, listen, listen. How would Dave, how would you describe yourself? Would you consider yourself. I know you said a little bit of this, a little bit of that, but where the world is right now, according to you, with the things that you say, the things that you feel and the manner in which you go about expressing it, what would you describe yourself as being right now?

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah, I like the way you frame that question. Because in the world as it is this moment, yeah, I think you could say I'm a conservative, kind of small conservative, meaning most of my values are Conservative. I want to conserve the good things of America. But I would back up and say that in normal times, which is most of my life, let's say without the last five or so years, if we didn't include those. I am a classical liberal. The founders of this country were classical liberals. I believe in individual rights. I believe in laissez faire economics, logic and reason. I believe in personal property. I believe in a small government that can do just enough so that you can, I don't know, pursue your happiness kind of as the founders wanted. And unfortunately, the reason I don't say I'm liberal anymore. And by the way, I wrote not to pat myself on the back, but my first book, don't burn, this book was the best selling book on classical liberalism probably in the last 50 years. And the reason I can't really say I'm a liberal anymore is not because it is not true. It's because why our friend Bill Maher, I think, struggles when he's trying to defend liberalism. Most people mean progressivism and progressive. And liberal is very, very different, which I'm happy to get into.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

Well, I wanted to know how. So according to you, according to you, how is it different?

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah, yeah. So progressives basically have ushered in the era of wokeism. And every time we, you know, we all, you and I talk about wokeism all the time. I think the easiest way to define wokeism would be that if you believe that people's immutable characteristics are the most important thing about them and then you want to put that in some hierarchy of importance. So skin col for some people is above sexuality, but sometimes gender identity is above that. But however you want to order it, that basically is woke. And then there's economic versions of it and everything else that we now see burst forth with Mamdani in New York and again, happy to explain all that stuff. So in essence, to answer your question, defending my liberal beliefs has become a conservative position. And that's why generally people think of me as a conservative because I hang out with all of these conservatives and Republicans and things of that nature and generally agree with them on some things. But there are some things that I disagree with them. I happen to be begrudgingly pro choice. I think you are too. Obviously, things like marriage equality, it's not an issue anymore. But I think that was a just cause, by the way, a liberal cause because it was equality for all people and a few other marginal things. But I just want the government off my back. I think this is a fundamentally incredible country that is the dream of everybody who has ever lived here. And it's why nobody leaves and everyone still wants to come here. And I'm always interest in hashing it out with people that I have marginal differences with, not people that say, want to behead me. I usually think of that as a red line.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

But based on what you describe yourself to be, there's nothing about it really that speaks to liberalism. So at one point in time in your life, you described yourself as a liberal or a Democrat, whatever word is appropriate, go with it. My question to you would be, what changed? What specifically made you make the shift to say, wait a minute, this is not what I believe in. It's more along the conservative line. Was there the specific moment where that occurred?

[Dave Rubin]

There's a couple ones. Many people had seen the video where I sat down with Larry Elder, who I'm sure you know, conservative radio host who's been in the game for decades. He's really a libertarian more than anything else, but right leaning for sure. And we sat down. It's now about 10 years ago, I was definitely on the left. I had just been on the Young Turks Network, started doing my show with Larry King's Aura tv and we got into it about systemic racism. And he smacked me around with some facts. And basically what happened was we weren't live streaming that it was live to tape. And he really just bludgeoned me with fact over fact over fact related to policing and quote, unquote, systemic racism and a series of things. And when I got into the control room after I had several producers at the time and everybody was like, Dave, we'll edit that out. Don't worry about that. Because I was beaten. I mean, Larry, nobody beats Larry when it comes to hardcore numbers and facts. And I truly, Stephen, I think I had my best and worst career moment at the exact same time. It was my worst moment for obvious reasons. I got into an intellectual battle and I didn't have the weapons, you know, the intellectual weapons to back it up. And then it was my best moment because without even thinking, when they said, we'll get rid of that, don't worry, I said, guys, if I'm going to do this for a living, that was real and we got to air it. And it is what it is. And I'll tell you, Stephen, the next day that thing went up and you know how the Internet works suddenly gets clipped a zillion which ways the titles are Black Conservative Destroys White Libtard. And when you're that White Libtard, it's not so fun and all that, but what I saw, and this truly changed my life. My life changed that day. I saw all of these people in the comments, even though I'm getting owned, but all of these people going, you know, Ruben sat there and he listened, and it seems like he'll continue having that conversation. And I really did continue to have that conversation. I started having you with Dennis Prager and Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro, people who I had big political disagreements with. You know, even. Even when it comes to something like marriage equality, Ben. And I do not see eye to eye on that. You know, he. He takes it more from a religious perspective. I'm not totally sure where he stands on a secular perspective on that, but I have no problem engaging with people that I disagree with.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And.

[Dave Rubin]

And that's actually, in some sense, that's the most liberal position of all.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

Dave Rubin, right here with Stephen, A straight shooter. You know, Dave, everybody knows, you know, obviously, you know, you're a gay individual, you're married. When you think about the LGBTQ community, who do you find to be more supportive of that segment of our population? Because most people would say it's the liberals, it's the. It's the Democrats, it's the progressives, as opposed to the conservatives. I'd like to know your answer to that question. And if it is the left instead of the right, how do you still justify being on a part of it? I'm listening.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

I'm honest.

[Dave Rubin]

No, I wish you were right. And I would say if this was 10 years ago, that might be right. But I can tell you this, the left, when you are a minority or an oppressed minority, as they like, they like you to be perfectly oppressed. And I don't consider myself oppressed. I happen to be gay. I've been married. We've been together for 15 years. I've been married for 12 years. We have two kids. We live a very normal, functioning, in some sense, conservative life. I get it. I get why it's not perfectly conservative. I really do. But. But you've been to my home several times and seen, you know, I'm a normal guy like anybody else, and then. And then sexuality happens to be just like a little piece of something. Unfortunately, because I don't view my sexuality as a. As an oppression, the left has really no use for me. I mean, that's not to say I don't get any hate from, say, more religious conservatives on the right. I do, for sure, and I'm not denying that. But the bulk of the hate that I get related to my sexuality is from the left because they demand that I be a Democrat. And by the way, let's not forget Donald Trump is the first incoming first time president who was for marriage equality. Even Barack Obama, the hero of the left when he came in the first time, was not. But again, this is what I would say. This is the beauty of what the true liberal position is. If you fight for equality for everybody, every single person, regardless of any of that immutable nonsense, then that is right and it is just. And that's what I'm trying to conserve right now. I would also say that the letters I try to never use the letters that you just use there. And I know why, everyone does. Right, I get it. But the T's have nothing to do with the other ones. Meaning I have no more insight into what it is to be a trans person than you do as a heterosexual. Right. That's a completely different thing. And the ultimate irony, of course, is that in some sense they're the most rigid when it comes to sort of sexual roles or gender roles or that sort of thing. Because they might these days. If a 5 year old boy is effeminate and let's say he likes Barbie or he likes dancing more than he likes Transformers or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, whatever the hell there are, they'll tell you that he's a girl and they will quite literally, in many cases, particularly in blue states, try to push him towards that. And then you know all the next stuff. You've been at very outspoken about it, particularly in the realm of sports, but what they will do with chemical castration and hormone blockers and all those things, the other version of it, and you can see this in the wnba, a lot of girls who are a little more butch, they're a little more athletic, they do turn out to be lesbians, but not all of them. And once you do that to a kid man, in some sense it's the most radically anti gay thing that there could possibly be. You're saying, oh, you behave this way, you're a little more effeminate, you must be a woman, you're a little more butch, you must be a dude. So, so the T to me has nothing to do with it. And I try to make that point all the time. But again, I would just say I only represent myself, I don't represent anyone else other than that. And I, and I try to make that very clear in all the interviews that I do. But I don't get any hate, really. Yeah, from, from the right on the religious Side, but that's it. Yeah, right.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

And you don't get any hate from the right. Is that something that's new or is that something that you believe has always existed from the right? Because so many times. And when you hear the word conservative, it's old school. It's, it's picket white fences and beautiful White House and you know, it's marriage. This, you know, everything is aligned, you know, with religion, principled positions. This is the kind of impression conservatives spent decades giving Americans everywhere. And then all of a sudden you hear what you just said and it

[Stephen A. Smith]

seems to be like the Democrats are

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

a bit more rigid than the conservatives. And I don't know how many people

[Stephen A. Smith]

would believe you saying that, but that's what you just said.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah, well, look, I think you have a little bit of a version of this too, as you've become more political and you find that right leaning people, whether they agree with you or disagree with you, I have found conservatives to be way more open, way more willing to agree, to disagree. I agree with that. To be generous and kind of spirit and everything else. So yes, conservatives, because inherently, if you're trying to conservatives serve something, then you're going to set some boundaries around it and then you're going to be perhaps suspicious or skeptical of people that are a little bit different. So I'm not telling you if this was 25 years ago that, you know, this is 2000 now, roughly, would I say conservatives were great when it came to marriage equality? Well, of course I wouldn't say that. And I do credit the march of liberalism to getting marriage equality, which all it is is that gay people have the same exact rights when it comes to getting into a marital contract that straight people have, that is a just liberal cause. The issue, I think, is that because conservatives have usually some set of ideals that may be around religion or whatever it is that people want to uphold, people want to force them to uphold them at all moments. Right? So if you believe in traditional marriage. So we could do this from two different versions. Charlie Kirk, my friend Charlie Kirk, who? Man, I wish he was still here. Charlie Kirk believed in a biblical version of marriage between man and a woman from a Christian perspective. Ben Shapiro believes in it. From a Jewish perspective. Neither one of those guys, in my years of friendship with them, once gay marriage was passed, were fighting against it. Now that's not to say we couldn't have come to loggerheads on this at some point, but I think both of them realize that from an American perspective, in a country of 350 million people who are so freaking different from every walk on Earth. What you want to put above your, even sometimes your most cherished beliefs is the idea of liberty, is the idea of individual rights and dignity. And if you can do that, that's how we can get through a lot of the nonsense that we're in right now. It's the ultimate equalizer, individual rights. And so that's why I've been able to have these conversations with religious people who maybe otherwise wouldn't be thrilled.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

Let's say Dave Rubin right here with Stephen, A straight shooter with Stephen A. David, I'll ask you this question. My mic flag fell off. I'm sorry. Ask you this question. We talk about decency. We talk about the quorum, we talk about so many different things, talk about level of tolerance, et cetera, et cetera. You're looking at the president in this White House right now. I don't think those are words that can be associated with him, Dave. Ruben, I know you support him. You understand, saying, and I think he's made me look more right now. Not to say that Kamala Harris, of course she would have been different. Not to say that we would have been better off economically or anything like that. I'm not talking policy here. I'm talking behavior. When we allude to things like tolerance or lack thereof, we see a president that has engaged in a vengeance tour, as far as I'm concerned, we can see him. We talked about the Democrats weaponizing the justice law enforcement. We see that happening right now. We with the doj, FBI, we see what the president's doing. You have to be blind to them not to see what the hell's going on with him in terms of the people that he's targeted, the very, very things that conservatives, particularly supporters of Trump had lamented was happening to him and had been engaged by on too many occasions by the Democrats is the very, very thing he's doing. How do you justify that in any way as a supporter of the president and as a conservative right now?

[Dave Rubin]

Well, I don't know that I fully agree with the premise, but I'll, but I'll go with it. So on the, on the decorum, on the decorum part, you know, in that you are, you're a freaking legendary broadcaster, right? Like I was a fan of yours way before I, before I knew you personally, you know that part of this is a show, right? Like some of what we do, we're telling you what we believe all the time. But part of it is a show and Donald Trump not only was he a real estate guy in New York, but he was also a reality TV station. And he was a hero of the media for 40 years. Right on Phil Donahue in the 80s and Oprah. And you watch those clips. And everyone on the left loved him at the time. Donald Trump, in terms of the decorum thing. So the truth, social posts and fighting with people and all that stuff, do I love it? No. But do I accept, especially basically 15 years into Donald Trump coming down that elevator, do I accept that? It is part of what he does, it's part of his negotiating tactic, it's part of how he keeps his kind of ideological enemies a little bit unsure of their footing and all that. I just accept it is what it is. Look, my hope is that Trump. I hope the Republicans win the midterms. I hope Trump has a really strong last two years. And then my hope would be that the Republicans might revert. It won't be needed, in essence, to have the kind of over the top thing that Trump is. That's not even a knock on Trump. Trump has woke up so many of us, and I think that's so incredibly important. But it might be that after all of this, the Republicans can kind of go back to someone who might be more statesmanlike. And I think you're a fan of his. Marco Rubio might be at the top of that list, but I think JD Would be fine, and there might be some others. So in terms of the rhetoric stuff, I just don't get triggered by it the way that when Trump said tonight a civilization might die for not even one second after 15 years of this, did I think Donald Trump meant, I'm dropping four nukes on Iran tomorrow. It was just a negotiating thing. Now, in terms of the other part,

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

yeah, I'm saying I can flow with that. My issue is that rhetoric mattered when it came from the left. Rhetoric mattered when people opened their mouth and talked and we talked about the detrimental effect it could have on our society. Because we never know what they're going to do. We never know what they're plotting on doing. And the American citizen out there that might not be as informed over every issue issue as somebody who studies it every day, like yourself and many others may be. And as a result, you've got to take that American citizen into consideration. I have railed against politicians on Capitol Hill primarily because in a binary system that we live in, when they're so vitriolic towards one another in front of the camera, you're not taking into account that you might Go out to dinner afterwards and stuff like that, meaning them on Capitol Hill and everything is just fine. But you've left 300 hundred plus million American citizens to deal with one another in the streets of America and then you want to act like you had nothing to do with the, with the dissension that exists. That's my problem with both sides of the aisle.

[Dave Rubin]

So that I 100% agree with. Look, if there was a way, and I try, I mean, I desperately try on my show all the time, and I know you do too, and our friend Bill Maher does probably better than anybody. If there was a way to defang some of the venom right now, I would be all for it. When my career took off, it was because I was having decent conversations as a lefty with mostly people on the right, and then I was embraced by the right and kind of kicked out with the left. So the challenge for all of us, you're totally right. Maybe we don't think about it properly, but maybe the way we should be thinking about it is we're supposed to map to the politicians how they're supposed to do it. We always think we're supposed to take our cues from the politicians, but maybe we should be giving them the cues. But again, that's sort of why I do think this particularly unique thing with rhetoric around Trump and the Trump deranged people who say the most insane things about him, and then he comes back this way. It won't last forever. It really won't. But I would also say, Stephen A. If you've ever read any of the letters that the founders were sending to each other or when they were, you know, when quite literally the first few presidents were, I mean, they would say, you know, this guy's got gonorrhea, this guy's got syphilis, you know, so it's not as if this stuff has never existed. But yes, social media makes it, it feel a thousand times worse and we're all algorithmically manipulated and everything else. But I'm completely with you on that and I would love. Listen, if you can find a place that we can do more of that, figure out a way that we can map more of that. I mean, I guess it's what we're trying to do here. I'm all about it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Dave Rubin.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

I wanted to get to Ron DeSantis with you because I had to. I met him just a couple of weeks ago and I know eventually he told me he's going to sit down with me and I'm looking forward to having that conversation. But you're going to be sitting, sitting down with him for a live event in, in June, if I remember correctly, if I read up on that correctly. I know you, you, you, you, you come, you live in Florida. You're a supporter of his. And the man is definitely, he's smart as a whip, no question about it. And it is a clear leader of the state of Florida. And it would happen to be him in this moment in time. Nobody can doubt that. My issue with him is, is particularly when he was talking. I, I mean, I remember when they were talking about there was some, some good elements of slavery and stuff like that that really, really turned me off. And I was not happy with him ever since. And that's something that I have no doubt we'll talk about if I sit down with him. But my question to you would be along the lines of your interview coming up with him. Some of the proceeds would benefit Prageru, which obviously had its own issues. Prageru and Florida conservatives took heed over a slavery curriculum controversies. Do you think the right sometimes overcorrects in culture war battles? And what's your feelings about that, especially as this interview is about to come up with you and Ron DeSantis?

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah. Well, first let me just quickly address the slavery thing, and you should ask DeSantis exactly what he thought. I thought Byron Donalds, who's our congressman down in southwest Florida, he had a great answer on that. They weren't saying that slavery in and of itself was good. The argument was that some slaves learned certain trades that actually were positive, which that obviously is true. If you learned a trade that then you could take with you for the rest of your life or bring to your children or whatever it might be, build a life and everything else that doesn't excuse slavery at all. But you should unpack that with DeSantis. But yeah, we're doing this event at The Fillmore on June 11th here in Miami, and Ben Shapiro will be there. Adam Crolla, Gillian Michaels. The reason I wanted to do it was we get stuck in this thing where we're always talking about the things that we hate, right? We're always talking about what we're against. It's very easy for me to wake up every morning and write my show and go, ah, the lefties did this and AOC said something crazy and this one did that and the NBA went woke. But I can do that all day long, Right. But what I want to do and what Florida has really afforded me in these last five years since I Moved here from LA is. There are great things happening in this country. Florida is booming. And it's not an accident. It's because, as Ron DeSantis says, decline is a choice. And we are not choosing it here in Florida. We are number one in education. Number, you know, the amount of money now coming down here and all the big players from New York who don't want to deal with the tax situation, all the people like me who fled Cali. Right. You've put some roots down here. It is safe, it is clean. We don't have massive drug problem. Businesses are booming. I mean, go to almost any other state. I was just in New York. You go to the suburbs and look at the strip malls and basically you'll get eight closed stores with maybe one kind of seven, 11 mom and pop shop and something else. You go to our strip malls here in Florida. They are jam packed. The economy is moving along. There are jobs. All of the COVID stuff, how well he managed all of that and fought to keep the state open. So I wanted to do a show where we will celebrate that and show people especially, you know, we're doing this June 11th, but we got our 250th anniversary coming up on July 4th. I want people to feel that there is a way to do America right and we're doing it in some way of these places. But you just got to be willing to see it. But you should ask him that question.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

I am going to ask him that question. No question about it. And in the interest of full disclosure, let me not be phony here. I'm a Florida resident my damn self. I migrated and we ain't lying to the public.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You damn right.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

I did it because of New York and the taxes and everything in New York. I'm sick of it. No question about it. So I'm with you in that regard. But getting back to the slavery curriculum thing, I remember one time I used. I was a guest on Jesse Waters show because Jesse Waters, I think, does a good job. And I was a guest on his show, but I hadn't been on as a guest in a. In quite a while. One of the things he turned me off about and Ron DeSantis had turned me off about the same time. I'm. I found myself looking at them and saying, you're not black. Why even bring that up? Why even talk about. I said, I don't give a damn what trade you learned or whatever. It was so iniquitous, so insidious, the issue of slavery. Why even touch that? That was my attitude. And the same with the curriculums, with the books and everything like that, with President Trump and what he endorsed with executive orders and stuff like this. Addressing dei, my attitude was this. And I said this to Officer Tatum on his podcast, Come to me and tell me that you would tell the Jewish community they ain't gonna have, you know, they're gonna have. They're gonna limit. Have their access limited to books and other education material about their history and watch what happens. In other words, if you're gonna do something like that, if you did it to everybody, then I get where you're coming from. But when it seemed isolated towards the black community, it was a huge turn off for me. And that's actually a question I will ask Byron Donald too, who will also be a guest on this show in the future.

[Dave Rubin]

I'm glad to hear that. I don't know that there was limited access to the black community to certain books, but I would say this. You know, if you said, if somebody wrote a book and said, and I'm sure books have actually been written about this, that, you know, the Holocaust actually taught the Jewish people a certain lesson and that look at how many Holocaust survivors became unbelievably successful business people and all sorts of things in various countries, that that would be true and it would be worth noting because the Holocaust was horrible and slavery was horrible. We don't have to play the game of which is worse or anything else. There are terrible things that happened to all sorts of people. But out of terrible things, good things do happen. So I think an apples to apples equation would be, is it possible that some slaves learned trades that ultimately were positive? I think the answer to that is yes, and I don't think that makes slavery good. And is it possible that survivors of the Holocaust who had their families annihilated learned something about survival and everything else that they were able to then apply to business and the world and family afterwards? The obvious answer to that is yes. And that doesn't make the Holocaust good. But again, I think it would be worth unpacking that with them a little bit. And I'm sure, you know, a few of the people, a few of the scholars who put that curriculum together, by the way, were black. So I get it. I get you are going to have a certain sensitivity to something that might be different than mine. And this is where. What a great place to try to whittle all of that down, right? Imagine if we whittled all of that stuff down to, hey, we're just from slightly different places, we just look slightly different. We want the same things and we've whittled it down to this much. I'll do that all day long. Straight Shooter with Stephen A. On POTUS

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[Dave Rubin]

Sirius XM's POTUS from coast to coast. Rachel, you're on Long Island. Your take is what? Let me go to Steve from California.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

The people of the United States, what

[Stephen A. Smith]

is happening to our democracy under this guy?

[Senator Ted Cruz]

I wish he would go away.

[Dave Rubin]

Your voice is heard here.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

The tax system is so illogically structured. We need to do a flat tax system.

[Dave Rubin]

I don't mind paying taxes as long

[Senator Ted Cruz]

as I pay as much as Donald Trump pays.

[Dave Rubin]

This is POTUS Politics of the United States for the people of the United States. SiriusXM124.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

Dave Ruber right here with Stephen, A straight shooter with Stephen A. Dave, talking to people like yourself and a lot of other folks, whether they lean, they're independent or they lean to the right or whatever, you run across a lot of decent people, more than people realize or willing to admit, who care. But obviously they pay attention to the economy, they pay attention to safety in the street, they pay attention to national security, other things like this. But I'm quite sure knowing the kind of guy that you are, you know, when I say what I'm about to say, it's going to hit you. It's going to hit you in a certain way because you care. What nearly $1 trillion has been cut from federal health and welfare programs, primarily Medicaid, to help offset the cost of tax cuts under the Trump administration. What do you say to folks that look at Trump supporters And say, do y' all care? Do y' all not realize that this is the kind of stuff that's been happening to where the wealthy gets wealthier, but the poor and the desolate seem stuck and they're not thriving nearly as much as President Trump swore they would?

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah. So how do you. Yeah, maybe this is one where we actually do have a sort of more of a bigger point of disagreement. I mean, this is where I would say, well, first off, we're uncovering crazy amounts of fraud. Right. This is what JD has been tasked with. Right now we are finding out. Do you know that a third. This is nuts. Doc Garage, who's in charge of Medicare right now? A third of the hospices in the entire country are in Los Angeles and they are being funneled insane amounts of money. So the idea that when, okay, you cut this from this. Well, doesn't mean the money was working. You know, I think one of the things that the Democrats are really good at is they'll go, okay, education's not good. Throw more money at it. But that's not really what the issue is. You wanna make better education, you wanna have better healthcare and everything else. So. So this is where I don't think that people. I don't think people are getting richer just because certain amount of money is being cut from this program or that program. What I would want. And by the way, I think we're on the precipice of something really incredible with AI. I want as much transparency in the system and to see where the dollars are actually going. We're going through basically a post World War II World. Now we're finding out all this stuff about the NGOs. And you saw that Southern Poverty Law center story where they're quite literally funding the kkk. There's been such an endless money laundering thing that to me, if you say, I'm cutting from this, I'm cutting from that, I don't have a problem with it because so much of it has been fraudulent. And also I would say how much of it has worked? If the idea of giving to a certain amount of people or doing. Having government programs that are supposed to help people, which are always temporary until they're permanent, if they worked, then we wouldn't have so many people stuck in those things. And that has nothing to do with sc, skin color or anything else. If you say to a bunch of people, hey, you're gonna get subsidized housing, you're gonna get food stamps, et cetera, et cetera, and you don't have to work for it. Well, then you might just not work. And that's how you get perpetual poverty and everything else. So I want as low taxes. Stephen, you're doing okay. And I want you to keep all or as much of your money as possible. And by the way, I want the guy who's making 50 grand busting his ass at pep boys to keep as much of his money as possible. So I think that's just a fundamental place where generally people on the right and left. Left. People on the right generally see it as a. Keep more of what's yours. And people on the left see it as more of, oh, the government must help you.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

But. But I think. I think fundamentally, based on what you're saying, for the purposes of you and I having this discussion, I don't think we're far apart in terms of how we think. I think the word trust comes into play because you're willing to apparently trust that administration along with j, you know, President Trump, Vice President J.D. events. I get that. My issue is, I look at it and I say, these are the same people that couldn't come up fighting for a month, obviously a negotiating ploy, but was fighting for a month and wasn't paying, couldn't come up with $2 billion to pay TSA workers. But you spending 2 billion a day on a war, in other words, somehow

[Stephen A. Smith]

you could figure out, in other words,

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

when you want to do something and

[Stephen A. Smith]

we got the money, when you don't

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

really want to do something, or when you're playing games at the negotiating table

[Stephen A. Smith]

or whatever, the American people are suffering

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

along the way, which is what happened under this administration as well. So I think about those kind of things, and that hits me.

[Dave Rubin]

The war thing is a separate thing. There's always money for war. That's just how it is when all these people are like, if we didn't go to war yesterday, we would have put all this money into education. It's just not how it works. I don't know what to tell you, but, you know, as far as the TSA people being paid, that's fully on the demo Dems, because what they were doing was holding up the Dems did the government shutdown because they wanted to stop ICE, but ICE, as I'm sure you know, was already funded. ICE is funded right now through 2029. Big, beautiful bill. So the Dems wanted people to think, oh, if we do this government shutdown, and people are, you know, you got a real pain in the ass at the airport and everything else. They think and they're probably right to some extent. People don't really pay attention to things. They don't really realize that we're the ones who did it. It was not the Republicans in the Trump administration that this shutdown so that those people didn't get paid, it was the Democrats. But the Democrats did it in the most cynical way because they basically said, we know it's us, but the American people aren't that bright. And when they get to the airport and they're in a big ass line, they're going to blame Trump because he's in charge. So they've done perhaps what you could say is very powerful cynical political ploy. But I think it's been kind of nasty. I want those people to be paid. Of course, of course.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

A few questions before I let you get on out of here. And thanks so much for your time. I really appreciate it. First of all, you criticized legacy media for years, but conservative media, media ecosystems are now massive. Is the right becoming the new establishment media in your mind? And if so, do they deserve to be on that pedestal in your esteem?

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah, well, I don't, I don't know if it's that the right has, you know, the fact that the right grew online faster than the left is purely because the left controlled most of the mainstream. You know, if you think about the New York Times and ABC and CNN and msnbc, they obviously all lean left at the very least. So when YouTube and Spotify and podcasts began, the reason the hardcore political people were on the right was just because that was where the market was, there was a reaction to it. And then suddenly all these people that were like, boy, you know, CNN is lying to me. New York Times is basically propaganda. They finally had a home. What I would say is one thing that's been really disappointing to me in the last year particularly, and I'm kind of an OG in this thing, like I'm an old veteran at this point, is that when I got in on this, it was the Wild West. And I've always, I think you know me well enough, like I'm going to get some things wrong for sure. But I do my damnedest to tell people what I think and tell them the truth. And if I make a mistake, I try to address it. I think what's happened over the last couple years, particularly in the last year or so, is that the whole ecosystem really has been poisoned somehow. You know, the pressures of fame and clicks. And if I do this, I get more views and the way things are monetized, I Think it's broken a lot of brains. So I don't know that the right online is the new mainstream, really mainstream. For all their flaws, they're still hanging on. They still are there. CBS is not closing its doors tomorrow and neither is the New York Times. But I would say the online ecosystem, which a few years ago looked like, wow, we're really building something that could map us to a great future. It's become pretty poisoned. And I'm, you know, I was or am friends with a lot of people that I that I now see as kind of bad actors in that in

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

our conversations, you and I have been very, very big on civil discourse. We've talked about it on several occasions. We obviously think it's incredibly important. Do you really think in America in the year 2026 and beyond, you know, that we're capable of returning to persuasion over tribal warfare?

[Dave Rubin]

I love that question. I don't know. I have no idea. Maybe just the nature of the Internet and that there will keep pushing us all away from each other. We'll all cater news to ourselves again. Then the algorithms will do God knows what to us and we will all live in very fundamentally different realities that quite literally you and your neighbor will. Something will happen, a war will start. There will be an economic collapse, there will be a natural disaster somewhere, whatever store you want to pick. And you and your neighbors, because you ingest different news will think completely opposite things about how it happened or why it happened or who's involved. We definitely could be heading towards that. I would say, you know, a white pill on that would be that as AI as I referenced before cleaning up some of the fraud. You know, I hopefully if we can trust these models and that's obviously a big if. And you know, some people think Grok is great. Obviously, you know, you and I are kind of elon guys, so I tend to use Grok more. But you know, certain people don't trust him and they use ChatGPT more. And if you put the same prompt in both of those things, you're going to get very different answers. But there might be some way that cleans up some of that. But civil dis, it might just be that it's some level humanity kind of is what it is. And as long as we're not killing each other and I really mean this, it sounds kind of glib, but in a country like America where literally every person on earth would be jealous to be in right again, it's why nobody ever leaves everyone comes here year it might just be that we will live in very different worlds, and the purpose of the government will just, hey, don't kill each other.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But here we are in your perfect world.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

Who is the Republican nominee for the presidency of the United States for 2028, and who is the Democratic nominee they're going up against?

[Dave Rubin]

That means Stephen A. Is not running. Is that what you're telling me?

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

Yeah. I ain't giving. I ain't giving up my money. I ain't giving up my money. If they find a way for me not to have to give up my money, I'll go for it, but go ahead.

[Dave Rubin]

So on the Republican side, I mean, Rubio is the all star. I think that's very obvious. It doesn't even. We don't even have to dive into the politics. If you just look at the track record of this guy. You know, I've interviewed him a bunch of times. I know him pretty well from the Florida ecosystem. He is a decent family man, and he is a great spokesman for American values. I'm sure you saw that thing when he did. He stepped in at the White House press briefing other day, and he just gave that unbelievable soliloquy on what makes America great. I think he picks up all of the right pieces. And actually, Stephen, he does exactly what you're asking for. Because basically what you're saying is you like a lot of the Trump stuff, but there's some stuff you're not too thrilled with, and you don't like some of the rhetoric. Rubio fills in a lot of those gaps, I think. Look, JD Obviously is a skilled politician. I like him. I've interviewed him many times. I think he's a decent human being. I think there's a little bit of weird there kind of with the Tucker world, but okay, that would be fine. I think they will have one way. If Desantis gets involved, I mean, you could see competent people getting in on it. And by the way, I think Trump is gonna want a brokered convention. Mark my words. I don't think this thing's being handed to J.D. i think Trump goes out and he kind of.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

I don't think it should be.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah. Oh, no, you don't think it should be handed to him, you mean?

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

I think J.D.

[Stephen A. Smith]

i think the problem.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

I think, to a lesser degree, Desantis are significantly less. Lesser degree. Desantis had the same problem when he was running that I think J.D. has now. I think they try. I think he tries to be too Trumpish. Marco Rubio, I find him to be his own man. I find him to be an adult in the room. He has to deal with the stuff he has to deal with because of the position that he's in. And Trump is the boss, but he's nothing like that and he has no desire to be that. And I appreciate that. Wiz with JD JD strikes me as somebody who tries to come across as a younger version of Trump.

[Dave Rubin]

When I tell you a story, I don't think I've ever told this story on camera. I don't think Rubio will mind. But a couple years ago, when Rubio was running for reelection down here in Florida for Senate and there was tons of senators that were up for reelection nationwide, I went to a pretty well known tech guy fundraiser and there were about eight senators there, all given their pitch with big money people there. And seven of the eight were there and Rubio wasn't there. But his name was on the list. He, he was supposed to be there. And all these guys come in and they give their full on political pitches. Very rehearsed and practiced and all that stuff. And Rubio comes in real late and he goes, hey guys, listen, I'm sorry I was late, I gotta tell you, my son's playing football in high school tonight and I just really wanted to go to the game and his voice was almost cracking. He was like, I really wanted to go to the game and I really wanted to see it and I wanted to be there for him. He goes, you know, I think most of you know my track record and you know, if you want to donate money to me, that's fine, and if you don't, I apologize for being late and that's fine too. And I thought, man, that's it right there. That's it right there. He probably could have walked down there with millions of bucks, I don't know. And I don't know, maybe he wouldn't want me or the guy that ran it wouldn't want me to say that story. But I'm telling you that's the truth. And I think that gets to the heart of what you're talking about on the Democrat side. I mean, I really think it's just gonna be a clown car of ridiculousness. They don't know what to do. So you have the real radical side of it. So let's say AOC probably represents that right now, like the real hardcore progressive, whatever that is. You'll get two or three others. You know, Bernie's done, Elizabeth Warren's done. Those guys have run out. The guy that I think is the dark horse who, if I had to guess will be the nominee is Pete Buttigieg. And the reason I'm saying that is have you noticed. Noticed that he sounds exactly like Barack Obama? I mean, the. Literally, the way he speaks, the tone.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

No, I have not noticed that.

[Dave Rubin]

Oh, I have noticed that. I'm going to text you a video where they've done a side by side of the pauses and the hand motions. I really think they are training him. And it seems to me. Yeah.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

It's important that I ask you, of all people, this question based on what you just said about Pete Buttigieg, is do you think America would ever vote for a gay individual to be the presidency of the United States?

[Dave Rubin]

Don't know. You know, I know people want me to say, I suppose that I think there's all this homophobia out there, which is. I just don't like these phobia terms.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right.

[Dave Rubin]

I don't know. I think in America, people judge you on your beliefs and your behavior. And if they believe that his beliefs and his behavior are decent, then they will vote for him. But I think what will happen with the Dems, the reason I think I'm kind of leaning towards it being him is he's young, kind of looks the part. He's modeling Obama. And I think the way they will sell him to the public is the same way they sold Joe Biden, believe it or not, because Joe Biden was sold to us as I'm not a radical, lunatic lefty, but then he governed like one. And I think that's exactly what would happen with Buttigieg. It would be their way of saying, saying, see, to the Democrats, we're not crazy. We're not going with aoc, we're not going with the mom dummy types. We're going with Pete. But then Pete would end up governing as if he was one of them. I don't know the answer. What do you think on that? Do you think America would. When it comes to sexuality? Yeah, I think that's fair. That might be right. That might be right.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

Right.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And, you know, frankly, I think they

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

should or should it, but I don't believe they would.

[Dave Rubin]

You know, you might be right on that. And I'll now, frankly, I don't care as long as gay people have equal rights as everybody else. You know, if America has a gay president, I couldn't care less. And I also couldn't care less about the president's skin color or gender.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

Right, right. Last question. Had a black individual, black man that is a liberal, that sent me something about the gop And I wanted to share it with you just so you can hear where a lot of black liberals are coming from when they speak about this administration, this party, at this particular moment in time or even for the last several decades. This is what he wrote. I'm not going to say who it is because I don't have his permission to do so because I don't know if he wanted me to say this publicly. He said, bruh, GOP can't get black votes unless they appeal to black voters. They will never do that because their entire agenda is to appeal to white voters. Knowing as many black individuals that you speak to in the world of politics and outside of politics that you talk to about social issues, political issues, et cetera, et cetera. Dave Rubin, when you hear that that's the thinking of a lot of folks who are black that are not on the right, what's your reaction to that? Knowing what you know know about the modern day conservative gop?

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah, well, it makes me very sad to hear that actually, because I know plenty of black conservatives who are treated the exact same way. White conservatives or Jewish conservatives or whatever it else might be. You know, I always think back to when Donald Trump in his first go around when he was given that State of the Union speech and he talked about lowest all time black and Latino unemployment. Do you remember that? And then, and the camera flashed to the Congressional Black Caucus and they all sat there like this. And I thought, man, if nothing else, okay, you hate this guy. You don't like the way he tweets all of this stuff. But he just said that black unemployment is at an all time low. Could you not give him credit for that? So when I hear someone say, well, he doesn't care about us, or he cares more about white people, what I think Donald Trump care, cares about is American success. And he's trying to do the things that will create success for everybody. If.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

Yeah, but hold on. He didn't say Donald Trump specifically. He said the GOP pointed out 1865, 1865 to 1964. He talked about black folks did vote for Republicans. Why? Because they had a black agenda. When the GOP cast black folks aside, black folks left. So in other words, what he said, he wasn't even talking about Trump. He was talking about since 1964. They cast black folks cite white Southern strategy and all of this other stuff. And because they cast black issues and black voters aside, that's when black voters left. And that's what he's talking about. That's how the party is still viewed today. That's what he was saying.

[Dave Rubin]

So there it seems to be more of an optics issue than maybe a reality issue. I don't know. To me, black people are just like white people and everybody else. So the best thing you can do is get the government off their back, make sure they have more of their own money in their pocket to make the decisions they have if they happen to live, let's say in urban areas that have crime or drugs, you'd want to have more policing, not defund the police. So I would say to that person, I'm not going to sit here and tell you that the Republicans have done everything right. Of course they have not. And by the way, the parties flip over time, right? In many sense, in many ways. Donald Trump is a Democrat of 25 years ago. But what I would say is, if you look at the last, let's say four or five decades, what did the Democrats do for the black community? The black community basically has voted around 90 plus percent for the Democrats and show me the fruits of that. So if you keep voting for people who keep making your life worse, whether that is true or just the perceived reality, you might wanna put some pressure on them and say, hey, I'm gonna go over there and see what happens. So that's just a little bit of real politic, right? If a group of people in power know that you're gonna vote for them no matter what, they're not gonna give you much.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

You saw me, I just said that last week. I said, listen, I said I wanted folks to vote Republican for one election. People act like I just said that. I've been saying it for over 20 years. I said just one election. Black folks vote Republican. Why? So the Democrats know they can't take your vote for granted. The Republicans know they have a chance to get your vote and as a result you're not disenfranchised because both sides are volleying for your vote. That's what you should be doing.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's what I said real quick.

[Dave Rubin]

Let me just say one other thing because you know how much I admire you. I love you as a broadcaster and I was a fan before we got to know each other. And the cool thing is that you. I love people that sort of get dragged into politics. I don't love like the purely political people. I really don't. Because politics is not everything. And in many ways you do for a little living what I really wanted to do. I wanted to be an ESPN broadcaster when I was a kid. I was watching before Olbermann went nuts. I was watching him and Kilbourne when I was in college going, man, that is what I want to do. And you know how much I love basketball. And if I could get to do that for a living, I could probably ease up on the political thing pretty quickly. When I was in New York City, I saw Buck Williams, who I loved from those early 90s blazers, and I was like, I love you, man. And that, that to me was the best part of the whole trip. It had nothing to do with being on TV or anything else, so.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

Right.

[Dave Rubin]

But I, I did Dave Rubin twice.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know if it was twice. I don't know if it was twice. You know, it's rigged. It's your own backyard. You're familiar with the ribs. Appreciate you, my man. Thanks so much for the conversation, man. Look forward to talking to you again. You take it easy. We'll catch up soon. All right.

[Dave Rubin]

Good to see you, my friend.

[Stephen A. Smith]

All right, buddy.

[Stephen A. Smith (Host)]

One and only Dave Rubin right here with Stephen A. Straight Shooter with yours truly. Stephen A got a tremendous podcast to Reuben Report. Does a great, great job all the time. I've been a guest on this show on a couple of occasions and obviously he was a guest on my show right now for the first time. Really enjoyed that conversation. A light, a lot of stuff to be enlightened about. Make no mistake about. It's all about perspectives, everybody. It's all about perspectives and you can't learn about them unless you actually hear them. Meaning willing to listen and hear. That's what it's all about. That's what we just had a conversation today. Both of us thoroughly enjoyed it. I'm sure. That's it for this edition of straight shooter. SiriusXM POTUS radio channel 124 Wednesday nights. Every Wednesday night from 6 to 8pm until then, peace and love, everybody. Stephen A. Signing off.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Siriusxm channel124 Politics of the United States

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[Stephen A. Smith]

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