Full Show: A pregnant Cassie provides graphic testimony in Diddy trial. Cooper Flagg's NBA update.

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Stephen A. Smith Show – May 14, 2025

Release Date: May 14, 2025

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1. Federal Trial of Sean "Diddy" Combs: Cassie Ventura's Testimony

Overview: The episode opens with Stephen A. Smith delving into the highly publicized federal sex trafficking and racketeering trial against Sean "Diddy" Combs. Central to the prosecution's case is the testimony of Cassie Ventura, Diddy's ex-girlfriend, whose heartfelt and graphic accounts have captivated public attention.

Key Discussions:

• Cassie Ventura's Testimony:

  • Description: Ventura detailed a decade-long tumultuous relationship with Combs, highlighting allegations of physical abuse, control, and drug-fueled sexual encounters.
  • Notable Quote: "This is just my opinion. I don't give a, I don't give a. Not even a little bit when you hear the details that we heard." – Stephen A. Smith [02:30]

• Video Evidence:

  • Details: Stephen A. references disturbing video footage allegedly showing Combs’ abusive behavior towards Ventura, emphasizing its potential impact on the jury.
  • Notable Quote: "It's right there. Remember when he dragged her and threw her to the ground and kicked her?" – Stephen A. Smith [04:15]

• Legal Analysis with Chris Russo:

  • Insights: Chris Russo discusses the challenges the defense faces in dissociating the alleged domestic abuse from the federal charges of sex trafficking and racketeering.
  • Notable Quote: "The defense will argue that this relationship was consensual, and it does not make Sean Combs a federal racketeer." – Chris Russo [17:14]

• Impact of Ventura’s Pregnancy:

  • Discussion: The podcast explores how Ventura's status as a nine-month pregnant mother influences jury perception, potentially eliciting additional sympathy.
  • Notable Quote: "It humanizes her. It reminds them that she is a mother." – Chris Russo [23:09]

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2. NBA Playoffs & Cooper Flagg's Draft Prospects

Overview: Shifting focus to the NBA, Stephen A. Smith provides updates on the ongoing playoffs and discusses the promising prospects of Cooper Flagg, projected to be a top pick in the upcoming draft.

Key Discussions:

• Stephen A.'s NBA Picks:

  • Analysis: Stephen A. shares his predictions for playoff outcomes, particularly emphasizing key player performances.
  • Notable Quote: "I think Boston's going to need Energizer bunnies all around Jalen Brunson to come out on top with this particular matchup." – Stephen A. Smith [05:20]

• Guest Insights with Nav Green:

  • Topics Covered: Nav Green discusses his strategy for making NBA playoff predictions and touches upon Cooper Flagg’s suitability for a top draft pick.
  • Notable Quote: "He plays next to Anthony Davis, you know, Klay Thompson, eventually. If he can be a knock-down shooter, he's going to be a hell of a pickup." – Rasheed Hazard [46:09]

• Cooper Flagg's Marketability:

  • Discussion: Stephen A. elaborates on Cooper Flagg’s unique position as a white, marketable player in the NBA, highlighting his potential popularity and financial impact.
  • Notable Quote: "He's white. He's a white American. That makes him incredibly marketable right here in these United States." – Stephen A. Smith [40:00]

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3. Major League Baseball Hall of Fame Controversy: Pete Rose Eligible

Overview: The podcast addresses Major League Baseball Commissioner Rob Manfred's controversial decision to make Pete Rose and other deceased players eligible for the Hall of Fame, sparking debate about consistency and integrity within the sport.

Key Discussions:

• Stephen A.'s Critique:

  • Arguments: Stephen A. condemns the timing and consistency of Manfred’s decision, arguing that similar cases in the past were not addressed with equal leniency.
  • Notable Quote: "Be morally high ground if you're so against gambling... This is wrong, period." – Stephen A. Smith [66:52]

• Guest Commentary with Chris Russo:

  • Insights: Chris Russo (Mad Dog Russo) discusses the implications of Manfred's decision, highlighting perceived hypocrisy in MLB’s handling of players involved in gambling scandals.
  • Notable Quote: "Pete Rose was on the field because MasterCard had thrown an event and you wanted Pete Rose to be part of it to celebrate the game." – Chris Russo [65:45]

• Historical Comparisons:

  • Discussion: Comparisons are made between Pete Rose’s case and previous MLB controversies, questioning the integrity and consistency of the Hall of Fame induction criteria.
  • Notable Quote: "Joe Jackson died in the 50s and you didn't make him eligible on that ineligibility list." – Stephen A. Smith [68:48]

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4. Documentary Spotlight: Gilbert Arenas and Javaris Critterson

Overview: Stephen A. hosts a conversation with Rasheed Hazard, discussing a new documentary that explores the lives of former NBA players Gilbert Arenas and Javaris Critterson, delving into themes of mental health, personal struggles, and redemption.

Key Discussions:

• Rasheed Hazard’s Involvement:

  • Background: Rasheed shares his connection to the documentary, highlighting his role as a player development coach and his personal experiences with the subjects.
  • Notable Quote: "These young athletes today... their mental health is protected. They're coming out as abused children." – Rasheed Hazard [54:27]

• Javaris Critterson's Downfall:

  • Story Details: The documentary covers Critterson’s tragic path leading to manslaughter, emphasizing the lack of support and emotional struggles faced by young athletes.
  • Notable Quote: "When you make it to the NBA... they come out basically like abused children." – Rasheed Hazard [55:33]

• Lessons from Kobe Bryant:

  • Insights: Rasheed discusses the humility and mentorship he experienced from Kobe Bryant, drawing parallels to the importance of emotional maturity in athletes.
  • Notable Quote: "He allowed me to coach and to teach and to bring my vision of the game." – Rasheed Hazard [60:33]

• Message to the Community:

  • Takeaway: The documentary aims to shed light on the critical need for mental health support among young athletes, advocating for better guidance and emotional resilience.
  • Notable Quote: "Don't make emotional decisions... your mental health is protected." – Rasheed Hazard [57:59]

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5. Additional Highlights and Audience Interaction

Social Media Engagement: Stephen A. engages with listeners through tweets, addressing humorous and thought-provoking questions about personal preferences and hypothetical scenarios. This segment adds a light-hearted balance to the heavy topics discussed.

Notable Interaction:

• Pizza Eating Styles:

  • "She’s keeping her hands clean... I'm versatile and flexible like that." – Stephen A. Smith [34:17]

• Debate Preferences:

  • "Skip Bayless and I already won championships when it comes to debate shows." – Stephen A. Smith [65:45]

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Conclusion

In this episode of The Stephen A. Smith Show, listeners are treated to an in-depth analysis of high-profile legal battles, significant sports updates, and compelling personal stories. Stephen A.'s unfiltered opinions, coupled with insights from experts like Chris Russo and guests from the sports industry, provide a comprehensive and engaging narrative that caters to both avid sports fans and those interested in broader societal issues.

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Note: Timestamps are approximate and based on the provided transcript.

Transcript

[Stephen A. Smith]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.

[Chris Russo]

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[Ellie Honig]

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[Stephen A. Smith]

What's up everybody? Welcome to the latest edition of the Stephen A. Smith show. Coming at you as I love to do at the very least three times a week over the digital airwaves of YouTube and of course, iHeartRadio. As always, I'd like to take a moment to thank my subscribers and followers for supporting the show the way that you have Keep the love coming and I'm gonna keep on coming courtesy of millions of downloads over iHeartRadio, not to mention our subscribers on YouTube eclipsing now 1.21 million subscribers. Thank you again from the bottom of my heart. To continue to like and follow the show, just click the bell to get notified for our newest content and you too shall consider yourself the latest member of the Stephen A. Smith show family. And while you're doing that, please make sure to take time out to go online and grab a copy of my New York Times Best selling book Straight Shooter a memoir of second chances and first takes now in paperback. Just go to straight shooterbook.com to get yourself a copy. Once again, straightshooterbook.com to get yourself a copy. Got a lot of stuff to get into. Politics, sports, the playoffs, Pete Rose. I mean the list just goes on and on and on. And what does Pete Rose and Donald Trump, how are they connected? I'll tell you in a little bit but not before I get to the obvious topic of discussion that cannot be avoided. We're gonna get started right here in New York City in a federal sex trafficking and racketeering trial against Sean Didy Combs. It was an emotional day in court and as Cassie Ventura Combs ex girlfriend and former bad boy protege took the stand and detailed their 10 year relationship. It was testimony filled with allegations of physical abuse and control that included drug fueled sexual encounters called freak offs with male escorts. Under Combs direction, Cassie told the jury that Combs would often beat her leaving her with black eyes and bruises all over her body. Her lawsuit filed in 2023 became the framework for the government's case against P. Diddy. Cassie testified that her career as an artist ultimately became stifled because she spent most of her time fulfilling Combs sexual fantasies. Cassie is back on the stand today with more details of their relationship. Defense attorneys for Diddy maintained the sexual encounters between he and Cassie were consensual. This is just my opinion. I don't give a, I don't give a. Not even a little bit when you hear the details that we heard. Good luck with the defense deciphering the difference between sex trafficking and racketeering as opposed to domestic abuse and thinking that's going to win them a jury. I find it very difficult to believe that human beings are going to be able to disassociate themselves from the criminal kind of behavior she's alleged he has done. By the way, there is video of it and I don't know what level of access is going to be given to it but it's spanning about 15 minutes. Remember when you saw him running down the hallway after her half butt naked with a towel wrapped around him? Remember that? It's right there. Remember that? Remember when he dragged her and threw it to the ground and kicked her? Apparently we only saw a couple of minutes but that scene took place for about 15 minutes and now reportedly, anyway it's going to be released if it hasn't already for all to see. I don't know whether that's true or not. I just know that's very, very bad as it pertains to domestic violence not being a federal crime. That's more of a state crime. Good luck with convincing the jury of that. See my man Chris in here. I see my man Galen here. I see my man Russ in here. I got a bunch of people there. Jennifer's in the control room. How are you going to be able to hear evidence of black eyes, bruises over the body and urination on her and in her and disassociate that by saying, well, that's not really sex trafficking. That's not really racketeering. That's just domestic violence. So I'm gonna let them off. I don't know about that, y' all. I understand legally, if you're on a jury, that's what you're supposed to do. I don't know if you're going to convince jurors to do that. So in my opinion, it looks very, very, very bad for Diddy. It really, really does. Especially since the defense has all but said, hey, we understand his behavior was reprehensible, but that doesn't mean he's guilty of these two specific federal crimes. I don't know how you do that. I just don't. But that's just me. Coming up. Joining me to discuss the trial, CNN legal analyst extraordinaire, the one and only Ellie Honing. Up next right here with Stephen A. The Stephen A. Smith show. Back with in a minute. All right, folks, I need you all to stop what you're doing and listen up. You know I love this time of year, right? The NBA playoffs are in full effect and with all this action jumping off, the Stephen A. Smith show wants to make sure you take advantage of it all. That's why we've partnered with Prize Picks, the best place to win cash while watching sports. The app is easy to use. Just pick more or less on a few player stats and and you could win up to 2000 times your cash on a single lineup. Best of all, prize Picks will give you $50 when you play your first $5 lineup. Win or lose, you'll get 50 bucks for playing. Use promo code SAS and download the app now. Again, download the app and use code SAS to get $50 instantly after your first $5 lineup. Prize picks. Hey, hey, run your game. My beloved New York Knicks handled their business at Madison Square Garden Monday night and and now lead the series 31 against the reigning defending NBA champion Boston Celtics. Can they close it out in Boston tonight? I'm giving you my picks for tonight's game. So let's get right to it. First up, will Jalen Brunson score more or less than 27 and a half points? I'm going with less in this game. I think Boston's going to answer the call. I think the Knicks are going to need Energizer bunnies all around Jalen Brunson in order to come out on top with this particular matchup. Okay. I don't think it's going to require him for him to go ballistic. I'm going to go with lest on this one. Next up, will Mikel Bridges score more or less than 14 and a half points the way he's been shooting, particularly that mid range jumper over the last five quarters or so? I'm going to go with more to the answer to that question. Will Jaylen Brown score more or less than 25 and a half points? The answer is more, yes, because he damn well better. Jason Tatum's out. He's gone. It's over. You the $304 million man. I believe in Jaylen Brown. But you got to show me tonight you better drop over 25 and a half points. Hell, you better drop over 35 and a half points. As far as I'm concerned, I'm going with more. And finally, will Derrick White score more or less than 18 and a half points? The brother can shoot the basketball. He'll get his opportunities to be open and launch some shots because Jaylen Brown's going to create some opportunities for him and the others as well. I think the answer to this question is more well. So let's recap. That's less for Jalen Brunson, more for Mikael Bridges, more for Jaylen Brown, more for Derek White. But that's where I'm coming from. Go to Prize Picks app and check out the Stephen A. Smith Show Community play. It's boosted at 25%. That's all I got to say about that. Now I got to get to my guest. Joining me to talk about the game is podcast host, actor and prize picks partner. The one and only Nav Green is in the house. Welcome to the show Nav. How you doing man?

[Nav Green]

What's going on Stephen A.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Appreciate you my man. Thanks for taking time. I understand you have a prize Pick three pick lineup that is eligible for courtside tickets. Please tell me about that. What's your lineup?

[Nav Green]

No for sure I I like OG with the under on the rebounds this season. I mean this series ain't really been getting rebounds. He been, you know, dominating in other other areas. I like who else I put down for the Knicks game, I like Al Horford. Points, rebounds and assists. Less than 20 and a half.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay.

[Nav Green]

I think, I think you get tired quick out there with them young guys. They running up and down the court on the man and they just, it's like they got a game plan for him. And I did the, the last game with the Warriors. Kaminga, less than four and a half rebound.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, that ain't saying much. That, that's almost a best right there with Kaminga. I don't know what the hell's going on with him. We talk about that another time. But tell me about the Takes Two Tickets campaign and where can people find that?

[Nav Green]

They can find that on prize picks, man. You gotta follow that community play. Join that. And you know what I mean, you, you get in it and hopefully they might be in New York. Stephen A. Y' all looking pretty good right now.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's right. I'm glad you said that. I'm glad you said that. Now I know you're an Atlanta native. The Hawks are out of it. How are you feeling about them these days? I mean, they're out of it. They're home watching the New York Knicks. I mean, that, that needs to be said. So I want to know how you feel about the Hawks real quick, because I want to. I know it's nostalgia, I'm going to give you that, but I also want to know who you think is going to win it all at point in time.

[Nav Green]

Well, right now in Atlanta, like, we, we. Even if we were in the playoffs, we didn't have no finals hopes. I, I would say, you know, Trey Young, we, we put the whole team on him. But in Atlanta right now, it seemed like all the New Yorkers are coming out of hiding, wherever they were.

[Chris Russo]

Be ready to celebrate.

[Nav Green]

You can't, you can't get them to stop talking right now. I didn't know it was so many New Yorkers still in Atlanta.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You got to be kidding me. I mean, damn near everybody from New York went down to Atlanta. What are you talking about?

[Nav Green]

But they've been quiet for a long time. They've been quiet for a long time. Since the Giants going. We ain't heard nothing from them.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, you know, we were coming out of the woodwork, but then what happened is Trey Young gave it to us a couple of years ago. And, you know, we, we, we, we, we, we a little bit leery. We went in the hide and I give you that. I give you that. But we out now.

[Nav Green]

Dice on the, on the Madison Square Garden court.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Damn right.

[Nav Green]

Remember that?

[Stephen A. Smith]

He did that. But. But he home. He's home now, and we still playing, so that's what it is. Last question for you. I want to get to your actor resume, my man. It includes work in the Peacock series, Fight Night, the Million Dollar Heist with Kevin Hart as well. You got a new film coming out later this month. Tell me about that real quick.

[Nav Green]

Jeremy Pargo, he was in the league in the NBA. He got into acting, and he produced a movie called Final Play. It got Ernestine Morrison in there, Hazel Renee, which is Draymond Green's wife. Okay, man, it's. It's a dope. It's a dope project.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Wow. What role you playing in it, bro?

[Nav Green]

I play one of his homeboys trying to, you know, get his mind right after retiring from the NBA.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay, all right, all right. He ain't living in Atlanta and hiding, so you didn't have to. You didn't have to work that hard to help him. Right. He's not one of those.

[Nav Green]

Yeah, he was out in the open.

[Stephen A. Smith]

What about your podcast, man? I hear that's going well for you, too. Tell our audience about that real quick.

[Nav Green]

Oh, man. Broken Play Podcast. We do what you do, Stephen A. But we do it at a more different type of scale where we're not politically correct, you know? Yeah. So we may say some words that you can't use on there. So a lot of people, you know, they tune in just here I take. And I ain't never played ball, but on prize picks, I feel like if I put you in my lineup and you don't do what it takes, I should be able to talk on my podcast about your mishap.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah, you know what? Listen, props to y' all. I ain't hating on that. Listen, if y' all were in corporate America for 30 plus years, y' all would have to be PC2 half the time, you know what I'm saying? Got to watch what I mean every. Every day. I mean, I'm under a microscope everywhere I go, so I just make sure the cameras ain't rolling before I vibe with y' all on that level.

[Nav Green]

But I feel tax brackets, though. That's why we're in two different tax breaks.

[Stephen A. Smith]

There you go. I got you, bro. I appreciate you, man. I've green in the house, man. Thank you so much, man. We'll catch up later, all right?

[Rasheed Hazard]

All right.

[Nav Green]

For sure.

[Stephen A. Smith]

No doubt. I found out that was related to the guy that I was dating. I don't feel emotions correctly. I am Talking to a felon right.

[Rasheed Hazard]

Now, and I cannot decide if I like him or not.

[Therapy Gecko]

Those were some callers from my call in Podcast Therapy Gecko. It's a show where I take real phone calls from anonymous strangers all over the world as a phone fake gecko therapist and try to dig into their brains and learn a little bit about their lives. I know that's a weird concept, but I promise it's pretty interesting if you give it a shot. Matter of fact, here's a few more examples of the kinds of calls we get on this show.

[Rasheed Hazard]

I live with my boyfriend and I found his piss jar in our apartment.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I collect my roommate's toenails and fingernails. I have very overbearing parents. Even at the age of 29, they.

[Ellie Honig]

Won'T let me move out of their house.

[Therapy Gecko]

So if you want an excuse to get out of your own head and see what's going on in someone else's head, search for therapy gecko on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's the one with the green guy on it.

[Bom Han]

Yo, Kpop fans, it's your boy Bom Han, and I'm bringing you something epic. Introducing the K Factor, the podcast that takes you straight into the heart of K pop. We're talking music reviews, exclusive interviews, and deep dives into the industry like never before. From producers and choreographers to idols and trainees, we're bringing you the real stories behind the music that you love. And yeah, we're keeping it a hundred, discussing everything from comebacks and concepts to the mental health side of the business. Because K pop isn't just a genre. It's a whole world. And we're exploring every corner of it. And here's the best part. Fans get to call in, drop opinions, and even join us live at events. You never know where we might pop up next. So listen to the K factor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This isn't just a podcast. It's a movement.

[Chris Russo]

Are you ready?

[Bom Han]

Let's go. Let's go.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Joining me now to discuss the trial is CNN legal analyst extraordinaire Ellie Honig. Ellie, always good to. Always good to see you. Let's get right to it. I mean, I know Cassie is back on the stand today, but let's talk about yesterday. What were your impressions of what we heard in court from Cassie herself yesterday?

[Chris Russo]

I think she was doing what prosecutors need her to do, which, first of all, Stephen, is to come across as Credible, to come across as sympathetic, to tell her story, to put the jury in her shoes. Remember, in a trial setting like this, the witness is sitting feet away from the jury, 5, 10ft, she is right there. And it sounds to me from talking to people in the courtroom and reading her testimony that what she talked about was clear. I think she detailed some really horrific experiences she went through and I think she came off as credible. She didn't give the sense that she was stretching or going out of her way to say things that were damaging to Sean Combs. So I think yesterday at the, if I was the prosecutor, at the end of the day yesterday, I would have said, good, good start. We got a long ways to go though.

[Stephen A. Smith]

One of the things that, and I hate bringing this up, I certainly am not trying to just harm her in any way. I mean, I just want to say when she gave the details and then she talked about being urinated in her mouth, I just, I was so appalled, so taken aback by it. I know most, I can't imagine most human beings would feel any differently than me. That doesn't necessarily equate to sex trafficking and racketeering per se, but how damaging is that in a case such of this nature against P. Diddy?

[Chris Russo]

Well, it's obviously visceral and revolting testimony for the reasons you said, Stephen. And I think it actually does raise that question, which is, was this voluntary? Because that's ultimately what the defense is going to be. And when you talk about acts like that that are so extreme, it becomes harder and harder to agree that something like that, what you just talked about would be done voluntarily. But you raise a really important point. And this is what the defense argued in its opening statement. And by the way, I thought this was an excellent opening statement by the defense. Sometimes you'll see defense lawyers get up there and say everything you'll hear from the prosecution is bs. Their star witness is a liar, they have bad motives. That's not what the defense did here. I think they very smartly said, I'm paraphrasing here, but they said he's not a good guy. He's done really bad things. He had a drug problem. He was domestically abusive of, of Cassie. However, the defense argued that is not what he's charged with. And they're right. This is not a domestic violence case. This is not an assault case. It is a federal racketeering, conspiracy and sex trafficking case. And so I think part, a big part of the defense. And we'll see this, I think, when Cassie gets cross examined probably late in the day on Wednesday is. You don't have to believe she's a full liar, ladies and gentlemen of the jury. Even if what she says is true, this relationship, the defense will argue, was consensual, and it does not make Sean Combs a federal racketeer. I thought they did a really effective job of articulating that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But, Ellie, what about the notion that it's 12 jurors? Right? It's 12 jurors. It's six alternates. They're human beings. And there is such a thing as hearing about acts, hearing about an individual that's so repulsive, so heinous, that you find yourself wanting to get him, even if the charges don't necessarily correlate with what you're hearing. We're talking sex trafficking and racketeering. But you might have people up there that says, I don't give a damn about the specific charges. His behind need to be in jail. How do you ward that off if you're the defense?

[Chris Russo]

100%. That is a dynamic in the courtroom. You know, I practiced in that courthouse for much of my career in the Southern District of New York. People have this misconception perception that the jury is sort of this monolith. All it is is 12 regular people, 12 people from Manhattan and the Bronx, maybe Westchester County. They are subject to emotion like anyone else. And, yeah, if you're the prosecution, you do want to inflame the jury. There's limits. But you want to show them that video. You want them hating him. You want them being disgusted. And I think what the trick is, the difficulty for the defense lawyers is you have to prevail upon the jury to say, look, you are not here to rule with your emotions or your heart. You are not even here to rule on whether he's a good person or a horrible person. You are here to rule on whether the prosecution has proved the specific federal crimes they've charged beyond a reasonable doubt. Now, by the way, I don't think the prosecution is going to be unable to prove its charges, but it is important to note that the charges are more dramatic and sort of more far flung than. Than just domestic violence and just assault. They have to show essentially that Sean Combs presided over a criminal organization that had structures and procedures in order to promote and protect his career.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Most of what was heard yesterday was about sex, drug use, domestic violence, as you just reiterated. But all of those, essentially, especially the last. The latter is a state crime, by the way. But this is a federal case. Has the prosecution made the connection to the federal charges of sex trafficking and racketeering yet in your eyes?

[Chris Russo]

So, no, not yet. I mean, they're still early in their case, but I think they'll get there. The racketeering laws, and I used to use these laws, charge these laws all the time, are very broad. And what they allow federal prosecutors to do, and again, this is a federal prosecution, is to pull in certain things that would otherwise be state crimes. So, for example, domestic violence or just an assault like we see on that video, that would ordinarily not be a federal crime, but you can bring it into a federal court as evidence of the racketeering enterprise. And so, yeah, the allegation here is the racketeering enterprise committed a bunch of different crimes, including not just sexual assault and interstate prostitution, but gun possession and drug use and obstruction. And I'll tell you one other interesting feature of the charge here, Stephen. Racketeering definitionally means an organization, a group of people. I used to charge 25 person racketeering cases. I was doing mob cases. So it was more of a traditional setup. Sean Combs is alleged to be a racketeering enterprise of one. There are other participants alluded to, but he's the only person who was ever indicted. He's the only person sitting at that defense table. And look for his defense team to say they're overkilling this. They're telling you the man was a one man criminal enterprise. And I think prosecutors are going to respond, say, you bet. That is what we're saying.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You know, Cassi Ventura is on the stand yesterday and today we've seen images, footage of her being beat. We've heard about her being urinated on. She's an expectant mother. She's about to give birth. She's nine months pregnant. What kind of role, what imagery she provided with being pregnant do you think that could potentially have on a jury, particularly considering her testimony at this, at this moment in time?

[Chris Russo]

I think that absolutely matters. I take a very humanistic view of trials. I think they're all about the people and the personalities that are there in the courtroom. And, you know, it's interesting because the defense wanted to prohibit her from walking in. Normally, the way it works is the door opens at the back of the courthouse and the witness walks right down the middle of the aisle, right past the jurors. And the defense said, no, judge, let's get her seated first so she doesn't have to do that. So it's less obvious that she's pregnant. And the judge denied that. The judge said, no, we're going to treat her like any other witness. So they obviously know she is very far along in her pregnancy. They can see it. She's sitting right in front of them. And of course that elicits some degree of sympathy. It humanizes her. It reminds them that she is a mother. She already is a mother, but she's a mother to be. And you have to take that into consideration if you're the defense cross examining her. Now, first of all, it's going to be a female defense lawyer who cross examines her. I mean, if they send a male to cross examine her, that is malpractice. And, you know, you have to go after the prosecution's key witness. You have to be pointed and aggressive, but you also don't want to come across as being domineering or a bully. And so I think the fact that she's in her third trimester would also play in there.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Ellie, help me out here. I mean, just, just play with me for a little bit here. Why would it be malpractice to say, I mean, for obvious. I know the answer, but I want you to articulate it to the audience. Why would it be malpractice to send a male attorney up there to question Cassi Ventura? And what if it were an absolutely brilliant attorney who was suave, who know how to be very, very charming to a jury, et cetera? Why would it be malpractice to send a male attorney up there to question Cassie Ventura? Educate our audience.

[Chris Russo]

A lot of it's just an appearance issue. Look, this case is about a male abusing females. And so, look, cross examination could get pointed. And you don't want to be in a position where the jury's watching a male defense lawyer, you know, not literally, but figuratively beat up on a very pregnant female witness, slash victim. So I think there's a sensitivity there. Also, look, there may need to be cross examination about some of the nuances and details of the sexual activity, the freak offs. Look, there was testimony, for example, Cassie Ventura testified that at times she was made to do these freak offs while she was menstruating. And so those are questions that are much more comfortably asked by a female of a female than a male of a female.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Am I wrong? Is saying this, Ellie, does this sound even worse than R. Kelly, Am I wrong?

[Chris Russo]

It's, you know, it's interesting how you look at it. I mean, R. Kelly, I think there was probably more violence. I mean, I know we have the videotape in this case. The number of victims, I think was more with R. Kelly. But boy, the. The sort of full court domination of these women mentally, physically, sexually, career wise in the Sean Combs case, I think is in a different category.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Last question for you, Ellie. Cassie's husband, I'm being told he may be called to testify in this trial, yet he was in court on Monday. First of all, is that ordinary? Is that something that's typical? I don't know whether or not that is. And what do you think about the notion of him giving testimony in all of this?

[Chris Russo]

So it's interesting because normally, if somebody is a potential witness, they're supposed to be what we call sequestered, meaning they're not supposed to be in the courtroom because you don't want witness A seeing what witness B is saying because they might conform their testimony to be consistent or to contradict that. So ordinarily, whichever side is thinking of calling a witness should make sure that that witness is not in the courtroom while other witnesses are testifying. If he is called. Look, you know, if either side needs him to come to the stand, they will subpoena him. He will have to take the stand. I'm not sure what his relevance would be. It could be that the defense thinks he undercuts some aspects of Cassidy's testimony. Maybe she's had conversations with him that contradict things she said on the stand. Or on the other hand, maybe he supports some of the things she said. Maybe he met her at a time when she made certain statements to him that could be relevant now. So that would be a risky move, I think, for either side. But, you know, these are high stakes scenarios, Stephen A. And sometimes you have to make tricky calls. So we'll see. This. This reminds me of being back there at the prosecutor's office and are we happy with what we got or do we need to roll the dice here on another witness?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Absolute. Last question. If you're the defense team, how are you feeling today?

[Chris Russo]

I'm feeling okay thus far because if I'm the defense team, my strategy is you can believe Cassie Ventura. Even if you believe her, though this was a 10, 11 year consensual relationship. And so I'm in a position on the one hand where I don't have to convince the jury that this eight months pregnant, likable, well spoken, sympathetic woman is some kind of lunatic liar. On the other hand, though, let me give the other side. I'd be worried, though, because that videotape is so bad and the visceral nature of her testimony and what she went through is so shocking. I'd be worried about what you talked about a few minutes ago, Stephen, which is just, is the overwhelming disgust for this guy, for Diddy, going to just be so much that it overwhelms everything else?

[Stephen A. Smith]

And my apologies. You just brought up something very, very quickly. The fact that the whole tape is a, the whole tape has been released.

[Chris Russo]

Yeah. So look, the, I don't know whether we'll get to see it in the public, but that tape is a quick, crucial piece of evidence you're going to need, the jury's going to need to see and consider every bit of that. And they actually had Cassidy Ventura narrating it sort of piece by piece, which I think is really important, A, because it bolsters Cassidy Ventura's testimony. But B, it allows a firsthand participant, the victim, to tell the jury exactly what they're seeing there and what's happening each step of the way.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Ellie Hoenig, CNN legal analyst extraordinaire, right here on the Stephen A. Smith Show. Appreciate you, buddy. Thank you so much for your time, man. I know you.

[Nav Green]

Thank you.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Coming up, nine months after his death, MLB commissioner Rob Manford says Pete Rose and others are now eligible for the hall of Fame. I'll get into that ahead. But first, Jason Tatum, tears and Achilles. And the Maverick somehow wind up with the first overall pick in the upcoming NBA draft. I'm breaking down how both stories could have a major impact on the association. All of that and more up next right here, here with Stephen A. The Stephen A. Smith Show. Back with more in a minute. All right, everybody, listen up. With all the big time sports action that's happening each and every day, the Stephen A. Smith show wants to make sure you are taking advantage of it all. That's why we've partnered with prize Picks. The best place to win cash while watching sports. The app is really easy to use to make a lineup. All you have to do is pick more or less on a few player stats. Choose from any of your favorite players, Luka Doncic, Jimmy Butler, and Zach lavine all in the same entry. Then sit back and watch. The list is absolutely endless. You can play prize picks in over 40 states, including California and Texas. Best of all, prize picks will give you $50 when you play your first five dollar lineup. Win or lose, you'll get 50 bucks. Just use promo code SAS and download prizepix right now. Again, download the app and use code SAS to get $50 instantly after your first $5 lineup. Prize picks run your game. I found out I was related to the guy that I was dating.

[Ellie Honig]

I don't feel emotions correctly.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I am talking to a felon right.

[Rasheed Hazard]

Now, and I cannot decide if I like him or not.

[Therapy Gecko]

Those were some callers from my call in Podcast Therapy Gecko. It's a show where I take real phone calls from anonymous strangers all over the world as a fake gecko therapist and try to dig into their brains and learn a little bit about their lives. I know that's a weird concept, but I promise it's pretty interesting if you give it a shot. Matter of fact, here's a few more examples of the kinds of calls we get on this show.

[Rasheed Hazard]

I live with my boyfriend, and I found his piss jar in our apartment.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I collect my roommate's toenails and fingernails. I have very overbearing parents. Even at the age of 29, they.

[Ellie Honig]

Don'T let me move out of their house.

[Therapy Gecko]

So if you want an excuse to get out of your own head and see what's going on in someone else's head, search for therapy gecko on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's the one with the green guy on it.

[Bom Han]

Yo, K Pop fans, it's your boy, Bom Han, and I'm bringing you something epic. Introducing the K Factor, the podcast that takes you straight into the heart of K pop. We're talking music reviews, exclusive interviews, and deep dives into the industry like never before. From producers, choreographers, to idols and trainees, we're bringing you the real stories behind the music that you love. And, yeah, we're keeping it 100, discussing everything from comebacks and concepts to the mental health side of the business. Because K pop isn't just a genre. It's a whole world. And we're exploring every corner of it. And here's the best part. Fans get to call in, drop opinions, and even join us live at events. You never know where we might be.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Pop up next.

[Bom Han]

So listen to the K factor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This isn't just a podcast. It's a movement.

[Chris Russo]

Are you ready?

[Bom Han]

Let's go. Let's go.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Welcome back to Stephen A Swift Show. Let's get to the NBA and two, count them, two big headlines that could have a major impact on the association. We'll start in Boston with a Celtics law superstar, Jayson Tatum, for the rest of the playoffs and likely most of next season. With a ruptured Achilles tendon, Tatum went down late in the fourth quarter of the Eastern Conference Semifinals series against the New York Knicks on Monday night. He underwent surgery to repair a ruptured right Achilles tendon yesterday and he's expected to make a full recovery. However, the Celtics say there is no timetable for his return. From my understanding, technology has advanced tremendously. So and I've heard people saying that Tatum could be back, could be back as early as the spring and available for the playoffs next season. My comments about that is a, I gotta see that to believe it and B, even if he doesn't come back, I sincerely doubt he'll be the Jayson Tatum we've been watching over the last several years. Be a four time All NBA player, NBA Eastern Conference Finals MVP, an NBA champion, a guy that's going to five conference finals appearances in his career, a 27 point per game scorer over the last couple of years. I find it very difficult to believe that we'll see that caliber of player that early. If he will return next season. I personally believe he probably will be gone the entire year, but who knows? We shall see. I'll say that. Number two, we gonna learn a lot about the Boston Celtics, particularly game five tonight in Boston and obviously the very near future. They don't have one superstar player in Jason Tatum that's being paid over $300 million. They have two. Jaylen Brown is a $304 million player. What the hell are they paying you for? Because you can ball, that's why. So you got to go out there as the number one option for, for the Boston Celtics and take the hell over and show who you are and what you're made of. I'm obviously rooting for my New York Knicks, but I don't wish what happened to Jason Tatum on anybody, especially a class guy like him. But to get that out of the way, understand that the Boston Celtics still have Porzingis, they still have Derrick White, they still have Jew Holiday, they still have Jaylen Brown. You should be able to be competitive if you're Jaylen Brown, you just go out there and make sure it ain't you. It just, just don't let it be you. You got to be the one to show up, let everybody else not show up, but you make sure you do. That's all I got to say because Boston a lot about a lot of things that we're going to learn. The likelihood is that that five, that starting five, A Porzingis, a Holiday, a White, A Brown and a Tatum. The likelihood is that we will never see the starting five playing together again. Because it's entirely possible that by the time Tatum comes back, one, if not more of those other guys are gone. We shall see. Next up, let's get to the other NBA headline that sent shock waves through the league on Monday night. And that's the Dallas Mavericks winning the draft lottery. The Mavs had only a 1.8% chance of winning the lottery after being eliminated in the Western Conference finals. Play in game to end a tumultuous season. If you remember, Kyrie Irving went down with a torn ACL and fans were ready to drive GM Nico Harrison out of town for the trade that sent Luka Doncic to the Los Angeles Lakers. Well, now they have a chance to secure another generational talent in Dukes Cooper Flagg, a two way player with the first overall pick in the draft. Couple of things. Number one, I was very, very happy for Nico Harrison because when you see the way Luka played defense, how many people were blowing by him during the playoffs, you saw what a defensive liability he was and what level of that played in the success that the Lakers were not able to reap. You hear Nico Harrison talking about trying to win championships and acquiring somebody like Anthony Davis and improving their defense exponentially. If Kyrie Irving hadn't gone down, who's to say what Dallas would have done? So I think we have to pay attention to that. We can't ignore that reality with that being said, because Nico Harrison made the trade. Did y' all know there were cops in his backyards all the time in his front yard? You know that he's been under heavy security since the trade? People threatening him, threatening his life, bothering his family, et cetera. Do you realize what this man has had to go through? And now it may end up being that he looks like a genius when all is said and done. Because if the Dallas Mavericks are winning and the Los Angeles Lakers are not, where does that leave Nico Harrison then? If Luka Doncic is in LA but he ain't getting it done, where does that leave the Los Angeles Lakers? I think those are legitimate questions to ask, particularly when you're considering Nico. Now, to get to the Dallas Mavericks, let me say this real quickly to you, Cooper. Flag doesn't need to go anywhere. I understand. If you're the Dallas Mavericks, you got assets you could trade for somebody, let's say, like a Giannis Antetokounmpo. You don't need three hefty salaries on your books, particularly in the age of the second apron with the collective bargaining agreement threatening to ravage your franchise financially. You don't need that problem Because Giannis would have to be paid along with ad, along with Kyrie and Cooper Flag under that rookie Wade scale, essentially, you don't have that problem. Number two, he's a two way play. He's a baller. He ain't a big time bonafide shooter. So he's not the second coming of Larry Bird, but damn it, he looks the part. Which brings me to my other point. We know that Cooper Flag can ball. We know this is the Cooper Flag draft. We've known that since he entered college as a member of the Duke Blue Devils. But let me tell you something, if I'm the owner of the Dallas Mavericks, he ain't going no damn place. You know why? Cause he's white. He's a white baller. That's right. I said it and I mean it. There's very, very few people that's going to be as marketable as Cooper Flagg. If Cooper Flagg is the player we believe him to be. I ain't telling you, ignore his talent. Just draft and just keep him. Because he's white. I'm saying because he's a big time baller who's expected to be a big time baller on a pro level. The fact that he's white makes him that much more attractive. He's a white American. That makes him incredibly marketable right here in these United States, and especially in Dallas, Texas. And I say Texas because I get that from my buddy Jerry Jones, owner of the Dallas Cowboys, Texas. And by the way, I saw an advertisement. Cooper Flag. Did y' all know they had the flag behind them? Did you know that during the NCAA tournament, they had the flag behind them? I mean, my God, the only promo I saw better than that. And I don't mean this disrespectfully, I'm not trying to be insensitive or anything like that, but I've been on the record saying that when candidate Trump got shot and you saw the blood trickling down his air and the right side of his face, and then you saw him stand up surrounded by Secret Service agents and he's pumping his fist. Fight, fight, fight. And the American flag was behind him, you knew then chances of him losing the election was slim to none. Now let's bring it back to basketball. Flag with the flag behind him. The brother ain't from the streets of Chicago or New York or la. He's from Maine. And he can ball. He could play. And on top of that, all white. Very, very marketable. I'm not trading him. I'm gonna make money for the next decade off of this brother. He stand right there. And last but not least, when I bring up Texas. Cause it's important that you hear me say Texas. I told this story on first take. I'll tell it to y' all right now, real quick to my audience out there. So last year I'm in Austin, Texas for the south by Southwest Conference. And I'm in my hotel room and lo and behold, the show Martin comes on. And I'm all excited about Martin because that's one of my all time favorite comedians. And I'm watching it and I've never seen this happen in my life. I'm watching Martin, and in the middle of the broadcast, it's interrupted, shut off to play the national anthem. Them with the red, white and blue American flag draped on a television screen. I've never seen that in my life. But as Jerry Jones would say, in Texas, we do things a little different down here. That's Cooper Flagg. A little bit different than typical American player. Usually when you see somebody as white as him, as good as he's projected to be, they from Europe, they. I don't know where it's from. Slovenia, Serbia, Czechoslovakia, France, whatever. They usually from here. Projected to have this kind of star power. But that brother is. And he's white. I don't know about the rest of y' all, but in America, when you have somebody white that's that gifted, that's a money maker if ever there was one. If I know it, the 19 year marketing veteran from Nike that is now running basketball operations for the Dallas Mavericks named Nico Harrison, he knows it too. Cooper Flagg stays. Cooper Flag's gonna be in Dallas. Who knows, he might even end up being as popular as the Dallas Cowboys, if not more. Cause you certainly gonna expect him to win more than they do. You know what I'm saying? I'm just saying. So I see him, like looking, picking him up.

[Rasheed Hazard]

And when I'm like, yeah, there you go.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You said you was gonna shoot me.

[Nav Green]

So there you go.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I gave you guns.

[Rasheed Hazard]

It was like a movie. Javar came in right behind him and started walking towards the locker. And things escalated.

[Nav Green]

It's like, you really want to do this?

[Rasheed Hazard]

You really want to try me?

[Stephen A. Smith]

He threw it, threw it across the room.

[Rasheed Hazard]

He threw it like it was a toy, like it was nothing. I never in my life believed in slow motion until that moment. Everything start happening in slow motion. When the gun hit the floor, boom. It'll go off.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's when Javar is what I need.

[Rasheed Hazard]

You for I got mine. People are screaming, running out like, I don't know, Javar's got guns like that, but people don't know if it's loaded or not.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah, I can't, you know, tell you if his gun was loaded. That's for, you know, him to disclose.

[Nav Green]

It ain't no point of carrying a.

[Rasheed Hazard]

Gun with no bullets in it. Like, it was scary, bro. I ain't gonna lie. It was kind of scary. I was definitely scared, too.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm not gonna lie.

[Rasheed Hazard]

I thought it was gonna go off.

[Nav Green]

My heart racing, you know?

[Rasheed Hazard]

Cause it's like, man, you making me.

[Nav Green]

Feel like you finna something finna happen.

[Stephen A. Smith]

My next guest was a former New York Knicks Los Angeles Laker, an NBA G League ignite assistant coach. He also served as head coach of the Basketball Africa League's Cape Town Tigers. Please welcome to the show the one and only Rasheed Hazard. Coach has. How are you, man? How's everything going?

[Rasheed Hazard]

I'm doing great. How are you?

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm doing okay. I got some stuff to get into you about this documentary you put forth. Can't wait to talk to you about it. But with my knicks entering Game 5 right now, I'd be remiss in neglecting to bring this up, my man. I can't ignore this. You are a member of the New York Knicks organization. Your thoughts on where they stand right now and how they've looked in these playoffs.

[Rasheed Hazard]

I mean, as long as you got Jalen Brunson out there rolling, you guys have a chance to go all the way and win the whole thing. I mean, you have one of the top two, three best players left in the playoffs. And then you see the contributions, you know, that you're getting from Anunoby. And then the Bridges trade is actually starting to look a lot better now because he's making those key plays and key moments. And I think people got mistaken because he wasn't scoring big and he missed a few shots and they forgot. But he contributes in multiple ways because he's a winner coming out of Villanova. He knows how to play winning basketball. And so you guys have all the elements. And if you can just keep Karl Anthony Towns playing aggressive, attacking that paint and rebounding and being a presence for you. You guys got a chance, Rasheed, but.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Work with me on this one. Am I allowed? Cause you know, I'm a Nick fan, you know how I roll. Am to be a little bit more demanding. Am I allowed to be a bit more reticent when he's not scoring? I'm talking about Bridges, considering we gave up five first round picks for him and four unprotected. He better do this, Rasheed. He better do this. Yeah.

[Rasheed Hazard]

You, you're not, you're not out of place wanting him to be consistent with his scoring output. Not at all. You're gonna, at least you're gonna need 12 to 14 points a game from him consistently and an efficient 12 to 14.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay. Okay. I'm gonna need more than that, but I'm let it slide for now because I got other things to talk to you about. But I need more than 12 to 14 points for them. A guy gave a first round unprotected picks for. I need more than that. But let me ask you this real quick before I get to you, before I get to this docu series you produce, you've been in several draft rooms as a coach. Cooper Flag is projected to be the number one overall pick and potentially go to the Dallas Mavericks. Number one, is he that good in your eyes? Number two, is he worth the number one overall pick? Number three, is he a good fit with the Mavs?

[Rasheed Hazard]

Those are all great questions. I think his fit with the Mavs all depends on did he improve his shooting to the level that he needs to because for him to be a good fit for the Mavs, you know, he's gonna have to play next to Anthony Davis, you know, Klay Thompson, eventually. Hopefully Kyrie comes back healthy, God willing. Right. And so you're going to need floor stretchers, right? The thing that he does that's going to be great if he goes to the Mavs. He's a culture guy, right? He's going to come to work every day, bring his hard hat, he's going to defend, he's going to do the blue collar things that you need him to do. But if he's really improved on his jump shooting, his catch and shoot, wide open shooting, if he can be a knock down shooter, a marksman, he's going to be a hell of a pickup for whoever picks him. And if the Mavs are fortunate to get him, then it'll be a great pick for them.

[Stephen A. Smith]

The reason you're here on this show today and thank you for being here, I couldn't wait to talk to you about this. Is involved in this documentary shooting guards about former NBA players Gilbert Arenas and Javares Critterton. Critterton was a McDonald's All American drafted by the Lakers. For those who didn't know but didn't find success there, you were an assistant coach with the Lakers at the Time. Take me back to that time and why he didn't find success with the Los Angeles Lakers. I'm talking about Javaris.

[Rasheed Hazard]

You know, Javaris came into a tough situation. You know, number one, he came into a team that was ready to win a championship. You know, we had just, you know, we had just kind of retooled and decided that we were really going to go for it. I believe that's the year we brought Derek Fisher back as well.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right.

[Rasheed Hazard]

So drafting a point guard when we had already started to develop Jordan Farmar, who had already. Who had shown and who had earned Phil's trust. But, you know, it's very difficult for a rookie to earn Phil's trust. And I think just by the. The way he played, the pace and what he brought to the team, I think Phil was more intent on keeping Jordan Farmar in that spot. And so I think this came into a tough situation. You know, we didn't have the wherewithal to spend the time, you know, to work with him when we were so focused on trying to win a championship. And so some of the things that we weren't able to provide.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Got you. That makes perfect sense because you're trying to win a championship. You got Kobe, you got Derek Fitch, you got proven winners that were veterans at that particular moment in time. It definitely was a reasonable decision. We all understand that. Even though Javaris was no scrub, he could play. But in the documentary we saw a tattoo Critterson had of the Crips gang, was it known that he was involved in that kind of life?

[Rasheed Hazard]

It wasn't known that he was involved with it, but it was known that he was having some problems with some guys in the neighborhood. You know, he was caught out in a couple of places. I won't say that he shouldn't have been. He was just caught out. You know, it's LA gangsters go to Hollywood, they go to Beverly Hills, they move around. So he just got caught in some unfortunate situations where I think some people tried to take advantage of him. And I think at that moment he felt like, hey, I need to get some help, some protection. But instead of coming to us like the team, you know, me and B. Shaw, Craig Hodges, or going to management or team security, I think he felt like he can handle it his own way. And I think that was a huge mistake, because when you are dealing with the LA politics, you need to have somebody from la, even if they're not from the street, that can help you navigate True.

[Stephen A. Smith]

What actually happened with him and Gilbert Arenas, that Ultimately led to both of them getting suspended by then commissioner David Stern for 50 games. Take us back and tell us what you can tell us about exactly what happened and why we should watch this docu series. In regards to all of this that it's documentary.

[Rasheed Hazard]

I'm sorry, it's all started over a gambling. A gambling debt that was not a. So Javar's old Gilbert money. But they had the argument all started over Javar's getting involved with somebody else owing money. You know, you know how the NBA is. It's just a. There's a lot of testosterone going around all the time and you don't need to involve yourselves in. In things that don't involve you. When you do that, you know, trouble can happen. And basically what happened was just two guys that are pretty at the time were emotionally immature who got into a. A measuring contest, as we know, and it went awry. It went too far. And Gilbert is the first to tell you that he took it too far. And I think for Javaris it went a little deeper. You know, Javares, when he came to la, he didn't suit up for his first game. Then he gets traded, right? So I think at this point Javars had felt betrayed not only by the game, but by people in the NBA, which wasn't true. It was just. He was on the wrong side of business at that time. But I think he felt betrayed. And then when he got to Washington, he told a story in the documentary about how he was playing in his first days and one of his shoes blew out and guilt is over there cheering him on. And Gilbert goes, now what size shoe do you wear? He goes, I wear 13. Gilbert takes the shoes off of his feet and gives them to Javaris. So. And tells him, hey man, keep killing them dudes. And just sits there and keeps cheering them on. So they actually started as like a mentor, mentee relationship. And I think in that moment when Gilbert tested him or when Javars felt like Gilbert disrespected him, I think that crossed the line for Javars and I think that was the point of no retirement, unfortunately.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So your involvement in this is what specifically as it pertains to this documentary and why were you compelled to want this story told so much?

[Rasheed Hazard]

So my connection to this was I was the player development coach with the Lakers at the time. So me and Craig Hodges and B. Shaw specifically, we spent a lot of time with Jabaris, you know, summer. I was a summer league coach when Javaris was on the team. And so I had a. I had A great relationship and was felt responsible for any young guys, low minute guys, young guys, because I was the low man on the totem pole. I pretty much felt responsible, you know, for their development and for how they got along with the team. And so that was the beginning of why I was a person that was chosen to be a part of it. But I have another connection to it. The director of the piece, Walter Thompson Hernandez was my star player at Venice High School, my first year as a head coach. So it's a full circle moment. And Walter, I mean, is another great story kid. I, I, he had a 0.9 GPA when he joined my program, you know, ended up being my leading scorer. One of the top players in the city. Goes to Cal Poly Pomona, takes them to the, the championship game, Division 2A national championship game. They lose at the buzzer. He ends up graduating cum laude, goes to UCLA, gets his masters, goes to Stanford and gets a Ph.D. and this is a kid who came from the streets and he's one of my greatest accomplishments as a coach. So to be a part of this documentary for me was, it was just a full circle moment. And you know, I really, I get emotional about it because I know where this kid came from and to see him in the position he's in, doing the work he's doing and telling the story as beautifully as he told really moves me. And I'm just honored that I was able to be a part of it and help him tell his story.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You know, I'm going to get to what the underlying message, the wish for, the underlying message that you want absorbed and disseminated to the masses should be. Because when we talk about critters, he returned to Atlanta afterwards, after the 50 gate suspension, all that, where his life spiraled. He was robbed twice by locals according to reports, and tried to retaliate, but ended up killing a 22 year old woman, mother of four named Julian Jones. He pleaded guilty to manslaughter in 2015, was sentenced to 23 years in prison, though it was later reduced to 10 years, and was released from prison on April 21st of 2023. There was even some talk about the white Howard's uncle and how he may have played a role in his early release. But I, I, I throw all of that out because the public needs to know that, because to know where this story come from, how, how the depths of where it went to and how we hear where we are right now. When you think about the message that's going to be sent from those of us who watch this documentary. What do you hope that we peel from it?

[Rasheed Hazard]

Especially young, young people like, especially these young athletes today who, you know, dealing with all these rankings and all this attention, just that number one, your decision, the decisions you make can change your life. It's number one. And don't make emotional decisions. I think again, this was a matter of two guys who are emotionally immature. And I think in our community, we have to, we have to teach this a little bit more. We have to teach our young people to be more emotionally mature. And part of that emotional maturity is understanding that it's okay to be vulnerable. You know, man, it's okay. Things hurt, you know, you're not less of a man if these things happen to you. And I think for our community, I hope in our community we really learn to wrap our arms around these young athletes. Because right now what's happening to these young men is they're coming out is basically like abused children. Because when they make it to the final level, when they get to the NBA, use a guy like Michael Beasley for an example, right? He had all these people that he trusted in his background. Then he gets to the highest level and finds out these are the same people been screwing him the whole way, right? And while Javaris's story isn't quite that, it still parallels that same theme and that same sentiment, right? Because once again, we're not preparing our young people for these opportunities, for the wealth, for the attention. And I think, you know, we have to do a better job. And I'm just talking mainly right now to our community to make sure that our young people are mentally, their mental health is protected. And that was something that I've been experiencing these last two years. I've been working with a lot of high school, a lot of the top high school players. And what I've really been focused on in my conversations with them is really paying attention to their mental health and trying to be a person that they can talk to and be open to. Because I think a lot of our young people, they just don't have that outlet and they end up like Javar's with all this pent up frustration that eventually boils over and leads you to murdering this beautiful young lady, Julian Jones, who did not deserve to pass away at the time she did.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Do you have any idea whether or not since he's been released, what he's been doing, whether or not he's reconnected with Gilbert Arenas, whether men's have been made or anything like that, any knowledge about that at all?

[Rasheed Hazard]

Yeah, I know Gilbert has been very supportive of Javaris. I think even while he was in prison, I think they started to mend their relationship. I don't know exactly where it is, but I know. I think the play. I love seeing where Gilbert Arenas is right now.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah, so do I, man.

[Rasheed Hazard]

It's beautiful, isn't it?

[Stephen A. Smith]

You know, Rashid, let me interject. I gotta tell you, man. You know, I showed up on Gil's arena. You know, they could be buck wild. Podcast is wild. Them brother, them brothers, crazy. But I mean that in a good way. But if you listen like Kenyon Martin. Kenyon Martin, hardcore. And all of this other swaggy p. You know, he can act a little silly sometime, but got a decent heart. You know, you look at Rashad McCants, you know, with the mask and all, he come on hardcore and all of this other stuff. Gilbert Arenas, yo, there's some good guys, man. And especially. And Gilbert Arenas is a good brother. That's come a long, long, long way. When you talk about the kind of progression that you're alluding to, I give them a lot of credit, although I've always been a fan of Kenyon Martin. But the other cats, just knowing them, talking to them or whatever, they're some good dudes, man. I. I think that. I don't think that's said enough. We talk about their podcast, but they're not bad guys. They're actually real good guys. It's just straight up what they feel. But they're actually really, really good guys. Especially when Gilbert's Arenas case.

[Rasheed Hazard]

Absolutely. And the thing I love about that podcast as well is you get to see their intelligence, Right? These guys, the way they articulate their thoughts on the game and on events that are happening and current events and the way that the dialogue is happening. I just. I just really love it. Especially for a guy like Kenya Martin, who painted Thug Brush. And you're this and that and that. Brother went to college, Graduated.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yep.

[Rasheed Hazard]

Did these four years. You know, he comes from what he comes from, but what's inside of that, man. The heartbeat.

[Stephen A. Smith]

He's a good dude. He just doesn't play. He doesn't suffer fools and he don't play, but he's not a bad guy by any stretch of the imagination. Before I let you get on out of here, one of the things in my research that was talked about was your experiences being around Kobe Bryant. And there were a lot of lessons you brought up that you learned from him, but you talked about humility being one of the things foremost amongst them. Explain what that's about.

[Rasheed Hazard]

You know, the humility that Kobe had was that he had this. He had. We call it the beginner's mindset, something we learned from text winner Phil Jackson. And the beginner's mindset basically states that no matter how high you ascend, how great your skill gets, you know, wherever you get, what level you get to in the game, you still have to have the beginner's mindset, which means that you're still willing to learn and be coached and be taught. And that was Kobe's humility. You know, I know a lot of people think he was arrogant because he believed in his skills, but I was one of the people who was fortunate enough to be in the gym with him after we lost in 08. He called me the day after Labor Day and asked me to come out to UC Irvine to help him prepare for training camp because. And this speaks to his humility. We had a conversation after we lost an 08, and I think he went to everybody and spoke to everybody, but he happened to talk to me as we were at the plane the next day, and he's like, you know, hey, he called me, right? Hey, Rob, what did you see? You know, give me your thoughts. And so I gave him my thoughts. But I also remembered the thing. I've sat in the video room with Phil, Frank Hamlin, Jim Clemens, Craig Hodges, text winner B. Shaw every day. So my job was to remember all those things and take them to the court and do player development. So in that opportunity to talk to Kobe, I just ran down the list of all the things that I've been hearing through the playoffs, especially in that series with Boston, about him breaking the offense too early, you know, looking to do things off the bounce. And so we had that conversation, and I thought it was over. You know, as far as I knew, he could have been pissed off at me and been, like, right crazy. But, you know, Kobe, he don't give you much. He's. I would have hated to play poker with him. He calls me day after Labor Day, and he's like, hey, come help me prepare. And we just went through triangle and footwork, and he allowed me. I'm the lowest dude on the coaching staff. He allowed me to coach and to teach and to bring, you know, my vision of the game and what I thought he could do and teach it to him. And, I mean, you got to have some humility to do that when you're Kobe Bryant. And here I am, Rasheed Hazard, four years removed from being a high school coach. And your willingness to listen and learn from me, that's the ultimate sign of humility and being humble and that's who he was.

[Stephen A. Smith]

No doubt, no doubt about it. You know, I knew him well, so I know exactly what you're saying. I got it firsthand. My man Rasheed Hazard, man, right here on the Stephen A. Smith Show. Really, really appreciate you taking time out, man. I can't wait to watch this documentary, man. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Right. We'll talk soon.

[Rasheed Hazard]

Thank you for having me. Talk to you soon.

[Stephen A. Smith]

No doubt one and only Rasheed has it. Gotta watch that. No question about it, that Gilbert Arenas Javar's Critterson story is something that is must see, to be quite honest with you, because there's a lot that happened, there's a lot of things that were affected that, that affected the NBA with make no mistake about that. Coming up, nine months after his passing, Pete Rose, Major League Baseball's all time hits leader, is finally eligible for the hall of Fame. How, why, why now? I'll get into all of that. Close out the show up next. Ready on the Stephen A. Smith Show. Don't go away. Welcome back to Stephen A. Smith Show. I want to get to a story from Major League Baseball that drew headlines yesterday. That's because Commissioner Rob Manfred removed Pete Rhodes, Shoeless Joe Jackson and other deceased players from Major League Baseball's permanently ineligible list. As a result, they're now eligible for election into the Baseball hall of Fame in Cooperstown, New York. The players were issued lifetime bans for betting on the sport. Manfred's decision ends the ban that Rose accepted from then commissioner Bart Giamatti in August of 1989. The ban followed an investigation that determined Pete Rose bet on games while managing the Cincinnati Reds, not playing, managing. Shoeless Joe Jackson and seven other White Sox players were banned from baseball in 1921 for fixing the 1919 World Series. Here's a portion of the statement from the commissioner, Mr. Manfred himself yesterday. Quote, in my view, once an individual has passed away, the purposes of Rule 21, permanent ineligibility have been served. Obviously, a person no longer with us cannot represent a threat to the integrity of the game. Moreover, it is hard to conceive of a penalty that has more deterrent effect than one that lasts a lifetime with no reprieve. End quote. Before I get into my thoughts, I want to share with you what my buddy Christopher Mad Dog Russo, you know, with his own channel, Mad Mad Dog Radio, that Christopher Mad Dog Russo, I want to show you what he had to say this very morning on First Take on ESPN earlier today, I want you to listen to what he had to say. It's a little long, but it's worth it. Take a listen.

[Rob Manfred]

How was Pete not in the hall of Fame long before this day? Anyway, baseball's in bed with every gambling establishment you can shake a stick at. FanDuel DraftKings. They make a fortune with this betting scenario. And when they needed Rose after all these years, when he was ineligible for the MasterCard top 50 player thing at the World Series in 99, they wheeled Pete out. When he needed Rose at the All Star Game, when they celebrated each team's four best players and Rose was voted by Cincinnati, boom, they wheeled Rose out. So for promotional purposes, when they needed Rose to be sort of big for baseball and to sell some tickets, they couldn't wait to allow him to be on the field to be part of that. When Rose's kid made his major league debut in Cincinnati, did you know that baseball would not let Rose go on the field? He had to buy a ticket. This is his freaking kid, and you make him buy a ticket after all the money he put in your pocket year after year after year? And then all of a sudden, now, and I love Bamford, I hate to do this, but you got to do it all of a sudden. Now Rob decides five months after he drops dead. Rob decides now.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, you know what?

[Rob Manfred]

Now he's eligible for the hall of Fame. Well, and then since he's no longer alive, it's lifetime, not permanent. Well, hold on, Rob. You can't say that because Joe Jackson died in 1951. He's been ineligible. He's an automatic hall of Famer, lifetime.354 hitter, and you didn't make him eligible in a row. Scenario was. So if this is about lifetime, why wasn't Jackson made eligible when you became the commissioner in 2015? I mean, listen, you couldn't get Pete Rose a day in 2023 when he was 80 years old to let him have a day in Cooperstown, New York. And if you go to the hall of Fame, you know what you see in the hall of Fame? It's a Pete Rose cathedral. There's posters, there's film, there's uniforms, cleats, and bats. It's all about Pete Rose. So let me get this. And they charge you 20 bucks to get in. So if you want to see Pete in the hall of Fame, here's the bat that he used to hit. Break Cobb's hit record. But by golly, we ain't giving him any day in the hall of Fame. And this is a sport that has been with the gambling community and listen good for them. But you can't have it both ways. Be morally high ground if you're so against gambling. So listen, I. If you want. The other thing is from a legacy standpoint, what now his legacy changes because he's dead. So in other words, then when he's alive, we can't put him because it tarnishes the sport. But now that he's dead five months later, who cares about legacy? We can put him in the hall of Fame. I mean, listen, what baseball did here to me overall with Rose and Rose is no hero, we understand he should have been suspended for 30 something years. But enough already. As Pete used to say, Al Capone got better treatment. Major League Baseball, they are totally out of line. And I'm really surprised that I think Manfred wanted this off his plate. I thought he was. I think he started getting criticized for how baseball is so hypocritical with the Rose thing. So he wanted it off his plate, I think, and I hate to do this because I love the sport, as you know, I think baseball is completely wrong.

[Stephen A. Smith]

He couldn't be more right. He couldn't be more right. The level of hypocrisy on a part of Major League Baseball is so flaming right now, it's hard to put into words. So you're Pete Rose and you received a lifetime ban is something that you accepted in 1989 from then Commissioner Bart Giamatti. We got all of that. We understand you have an abundance of people out there who have been incredibly unforgiving baseball writers, you know, former players, et cetera. But here's my thing. If you were so appalled and you wanted him to be devoid of any kind of recognition whatsoever, how come that didn't apply when you were able to profit off of him by having him participate in various MLB activities? When you wanted to bring attention when he was on the field and that whole Jim Gray fiasco went about. Pete Rose was on the field because MasterCard, a huge sponsor for the sport, had thrown an event and you wanted Pete Rose to be a part of it in order to celebrate the game. When you think about him and his name and his image and his likeness, the hall of Fame uses that and they charging people 20 bucks or more a pop to come into Cooperstown and you got his stuff all over the place, whether it's his bats, his hats, his gloves, you know, whatever a ball paraphernalia is. Uniform, et cetera, you've been able to profit off of this man. But somehow, some way, in the United States of America, where we forgive murderers, where we forgive rapists, where we forgive domestic abusers, where we forgive everybody, we had to hold strong on Pete Rose because he gambled on the sport to win, by the way, as a manager. You had nothing on him as a player, but tried to get the world to forget about him as a player until you recognize you could profit off of him. Is that baseball? I will say this much, it is what it has been. I happen to personally like Rob Manfred. I like some of the changes he's instituted in the sport of baseball. I think some of the changes he's instituted has invited athleticism into the sport, which is going to serve to elevate the demographic portion of the sport. You're going to see more blacks in the sport. Obviously, you got enough foreign players in the sport. I think that's going to serve to benefit the sport exponentially. No doubt about that. I'm a fan of Rob Manfred in that regard. I'm a fan of the challenges that he's made to the players. I'm a fan of the fact that he's tried to get the players to stop being the last ones to the party when it comes to transitioning and making changes to adapt to modern times. I appreciate all of that. But this right here, you know, what we're hearing right now, the change in his level of thinking ain't because of Pete Rose dying. Because, like Mad Dog Russo said, Joe Jackson died in the 50s and you didn't take him off the ineligibility list. And Pete Rose died September 30, 2024. That's eight months ago. What took you so long? And, oh, by the way, now we got the hall of Fame talking about they're going to put a committee together to decide whether or not to vote Pete Rose into the hall of Fame. But that's not going to take place until 2027. What the hell is the delay for? He's dead. What are you waiting for? Could it be for it to die down so you don't have to put a committee together at all so we could just whistle into the wind and just forget about this? It's amazing to me how unforgiving the sport is when there's so many things the sport has done over the years that shouldn't be forgiven. Don't get me started with the hypocrisy that's been exercised against Barry Bonds, but not necessarily so much against Mark McGuire, who actually was back in baseball and working as a coach even after he was revealed to have taken steroids. Sammy Sosa. And the sport has been very, very good to me. Showing up on Capitol Hill, needing an interpreter for the first time when the man speak in English all of those years as a member of the Chicago Cubs, I mean, come on now. Every time we turn around, we see baseball, steroids, amphetamines, and everything in between. Alcohol, domestic violence has occurred by some folks participating in Major League Baseball. And when, when everybody was being raked through the codes in the NBA and the NFL, it wasn't such the case in baseball. So many times over the years, America's pastime has gotten a pass, but it shouldn't be on this one. This is wrong. This is wrong, period. I'm not going to applaud Rob Manfred and Major League Baseball over this. This should have been happened. And oh, by the way, he should be inducted into the hall of Fame immediately. And for those who felt like he should have never been allowed to work in Major League Baseball again, we had commissioners that didn't want black participation in the sport, that did everything they could to keep Jackie Robinsons, the Jackie Robinsons of the world from integrating the sport of Major League Baseball. They're in the books. They got to get a check for Major League Baseball. Mountain, you know, Kenesua Mountain Landis. Ever heard of him? Former commissioner, look it up. And now, you know what else we're hearing? That the reason Rob Manfred may have come, we're not sure, but may have come to this decision is because President Trump was pressuring him to do so, because he's been wanted, Pete Rose taken off of that ineligibility list and ultimately inducted into the Baseball hall of Fame. So now we're political that we had a conversation with the president and now we made this decision. Let's keep our eyes on what President Trump does on behalf of Major League Baseball down the line, because if it's anything, then that would mean baseball really didn't do this out of the kindness of his heart. They did it because they were expecting the first favor of return. That ain't gambling, but it's pretty much in the same family. You feel what I'm saying? What's good for the goose evidently ain't good for the gander. Let's get to your tweets before we get on out of here for the day. MaxW760130 right. Stephen A. Smith will ant have a bigger impact than Minnesota, than KG did when it's all said and done, that answer is yes. Because I think this brother right here, Ant Man Anthony Edwards, is on the verge of winning a championship. KG was phenomenal. He was great, but he didn't win a championship in Minnesota. A matter of fact, he didn't get to the finals in Minnesota. I'm throwing no shade on the big ticket. That brother was special, but those are the facts. Ant Man, I believe, is going to get them to the finals and has a good chance right now to win the championship this year. With that being a reality, I'm going to say the answer to this is a resounding yes. Next tweet. Please give it to me at Ahan Runta Rungta right? Stephen A. Smith, would you rather your arm be a cooked or uncooked noodle? I would say uncooked because that's less of a chance of it being eaten. How about that? It might not make no sense to you, but it makes sense to me. You talking about something being cooked or uncooked, that's how I'm gonna look at it. I don't think my arms these days are noodles, but I feel you. I get you. Flow with whatever you want to believe. Next tweet. Let's got it. Let's go. Taco King X writes Stephen A. Smith can you vibe with someone who eats pizza with a knife and fork? I don't mind. I mean, it ain't my cup of tea. It's not how I roll. But if my woman is fine and she's in my life and we go out and I see her using a knife and a fork to eat a pizza instead of just grabbing it with her hands and chewing on it like most of us do, you think I'm gonna hold her against her and that's gonna be a deal breaker? You really think that's gonna affect me? Cause she used a knife and a fork to eat a slice of pizza? I don't give a damn. As far as I'm concerned, she's keeping her hands clean. It ain't my way, but I ain't knocking other ways. I'm versatile and flexible like that. Perhaps you should be too. Two more tweets to go before I get on out of here, Wisconsin. Steiny Write Stephen A. Smith. If you swap Rogers and Brady, how many more rings would Rogers have? I wouldn't say more because I'm going to give great credit to Brady for being the leader that he is. But I will say this. If Brady had six rings in New England, I'd say Rogers would have got you at least four. I think as a talent, Rogers is the greatest quarterback I've ever seen this side of Patrick Mahomes, who by the way, I saw yesterday at the Disney up front, it was good seeing Patrick Mahomes brothers looking good, healthy, ready to go. I would tell you that Rogers is that talent, but not that leader that Tom Brady is. And so because of that, I would say he's still so talented, he'd have got you four rings instead of the six. But he still would have got more than one ring than he got that he had in Green Bay. I could tell you that much. Last tweet. Let's go with it at Tropical tweets, right? Stephen A. Smith, would you rather debate Skip Bayless every day for eternity or coach the Knicks for one season? Coach the Knicks, Coach the Knicks. Skip Bayless and I already won championships when it came to debate shows. We were number one for years. We did our thing. More power to him. Wish him nothing but the best, hope that he lives his fruitful life and continues to thrive and doing whatever it is that he's doing. Never wishing anything negative on my man Skip Bayless. But personally speaking, I don't even like this question. Cause I would never be interested in being the coach of the New York Knicks. I would be the president of basketball operations. That's me. But if I had to coach them for one season, year, I try that. Cause I like challenges. Skip Bayless and I been there, done that, coaching anything, let alone the New York Knicks, that's a different animal entirely. And I don't know how good I would be, to be quite honest with you. I don't know if I had the patience, you understand. Especially if I saw a guy's lackadaisical and not giving effort and my job depended on their effort, I'd be one piss dude. However, president of basketball operations, different matter altogether. I'd mess with you if you didn't give max effort. Can't have that. Can't have that. And needless to say, we don't have that problem with the Knicks right now. The one thing we know they give us is effort. That's why they about to go to the conference finals. That's why they about to go to conference finals. That's why they about to go to the conference final. I'm out. Until next time, ladies and gentlemen, Stephen A. Signing off. Peace of love, God bless. Stay out of trouble. You're listening to an iHeart podcast.