Full Show: Big Game Week Guests, "Mad Dog" Russo, "Lights Out" Shawne Merriman and Super Bowl Champ Ed McCaffrey.

Summary

The Stephen A. Smith Show – Episode Summary Release Date: February 7, 2025

Guests:

• Christopher "Mad Dog" Russo – Iconic Sports Talk Radio Host
• Ed McCaffrey – Three-Time Super Bowl Champion and NFL Father
• Sean Merriman – Former NFL Linebacker and Entrepreneur

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1. NBA Trading Deadline Analysis

Timestamp: 01:28 – 05:00

Stephen A. Smith opens the episode by delving into the recent NBA trading deadline, highlighting significant moves and their potential impacts:

• Jimmy Butler to Golden State Warriors:

  • Smith expresses skepticism about the trade’s effectiveness, noting Butler's playoff performance but questioning his fit within Golden State’s system.
  • Notable Quote:

    "Jimmy Butler is Jimmy Buckets come playoff time. As the playoffs progress, he gets better and better and better."

• Los Angeles Lakers Acquire Mark Williams:

  • Viewed positively by Smith for bolstering the Lakers’ frontcourt alongside Luka Doncic and LeBron James.
  • Notable Quote:

    "He's 7’2. He's not an elite rim protector, but he can rebound and be formidable on the offensive boards."

• DeAndre Hunter to Cleveland Cavaliers:

  • Considered a strategic move to strengthen Cleveland’s wing defense against formidable opponents like Boston’s Jason Tatum and Jaylen Brown.
  • Notable Quote:

    "Adding him to the mix, I think Cleveland has made it very, very clear they believe they can win the championship right now."

Smith concludes this segment by emphasizing the overall mixed outcomes of the trades and expresses uncertainty about their long-term benefits.

---

2. Interview with Christopher "Mad Dog" Russo

Timestamp: 21:49 – 59:06

Christopher "Mad Dog" Russo, a legendary figure in sports talk radio, joins Smith to discuss his extensive career, personal challenges, and perspectives on the evolving media landscape:

• Career Reflections:

  • Russo reminisces about his decades-long presence in sports radio, highlighting his partnership with Mike Francesa and the show's widespread influence.
  • Notable Quote:

    "I've been able to make that transition to the clips. Having fun? Don't take yourself too seriously."

• Gambling Habits:

  • The conversation turns candid as Russo admits to betting approximately $12,000 to $15,000 weekly during the football season, discussing its impact on his personal life and perception.
  • Notable Quote:

    "I have an insatiable desire one day... to be on a stage debating presidential candidates for the United States of America."

• Media Evolution and Podcasts:

  • Russo expresses concern over traditional radio’s decline amidst the rise of digital media and podcasts, advocating for a video component to maintain relevance.
  • Notable Quote:

    "Just doing radio is not going to work. You need another component to help it out."

• Personal Anecdotes:

  • The duo shares humorous and personal stories, including Russo’s infamous "gummies" incident and interactions with other sports personalities, adding a relatable and entertaining dimension to the discussion.
  • Notable Quote:

    "They made me be part of the big event. He’s a magnet for these. You’re a magnet. I am not a magnet. I’m a normal..."

Russo concludes by reaffirming his commitment to sports talk while acknowledging the industry's shifting dynamics.

---

3. Interview with Ed McCaffrey

Timestamp: 65:53 – 86:16

Ed McCaffrey, renowned NFL veteran and father of star running back Christian McCaffrey, discusses his son’s promising career, quarterback evaluations, and the strategic intricacies of the upcoming Super Bowl:

• Christian McCaffrey’s Performance:

  • McCaffrey praises his son’s adaptability and toughness, highlighting his ability to extend plays and his leadership on the field.
  • Notable Quote:

    "He took some wicked shots. He had some cracked ribs. He didn't complain once, he bounced right back up."

• Quarterback Comparisons:

  • A deep dive into what sets elite quarterbacks like Patrick Mahomes apart, with McCaffrey emphasizing anticipation, vision, and the ability to revolutionize the game.
  • Notable Quote:

    "He's a special talent. There's no doubt about it. He's revolutionized the game."

• Super Bowl 59 Predictions:

  • McCaffrey anticipates a close and competitive game between the Kansas City Chiefs and Philadelphia Eagles, favoring the Chiefs but acknowledging Philadelphia’s strengths.
  • Notable Quote:

    "I'm going 28-24 Chiefs. I think most people in this country are rooting for Philly, but it's just hard to go against these guys."

• Champion Mentality:

  • Discusses the importance of team cohesion and strategic gameplay in securing victories, reflecting on past NFL experiences to forecast the Super Bowl outcome.
  • Notable Quote:

    "If he wins Sunday, he's going to get another one or two, so that would automatically put him up there in that GOAT category."

McCaffrey wraps up by reiterating his support for his son and offering strategic insights into the Super Bowl matchup.

---

4. Interview with Sean Merriman

Timestamp: 83:27 – 113:15

Sean Merriman, former NFL linebacker known as "Lights Out," shares his journey from the NFL to entrepreneurship in the fight and media industries:

• Transition to Entrepreneurship:

  • Merriman discusses founding Lights Out Sports TV, a streaming platform aggregating diverse sports content, including niche areas like fishing, hunting, poker, and MMA.
  • Notable Quote:

    "I wanted to create a streaming service that had all of it aggregated into one form. And it's free, completely free, ad-supported."

• Media and Branding Insights:

  • Highlights the challenges and opportunities within sports media, advocating for innovative content delivery and partnerships with major leagues like the NFL and UFC.
  • Notable Quote:

    "We have enough visibility and distribution where now I can go to the NFL and it's something I can offer them as well."

• Gambling and its Impact:

  • Reflects on the role of gambling in sports, acknowledging both its popularity and the potential negative consequences, including misconceptions and impacts on fan-athlete relationships.
  • Notable Quote:

    "It's good because it makes people aware and it gets more involvement. It's bad because then you get these conspiracy theories."

• NFL's Cultural Shifts:

  • Merriman critiques the NFL’s evolving rules aimed at player safety, debating whether they overly constrain the sport's inherent violence and affecting player performance.
  • Notable Quote:

    "The fan base and the people. I was one of the ones... it's a lot different when you're trying to learn to be a man or a woman, and the camera's in your face all the time."

• Super Bowl Predictions and Quarterback Evaluations:

  • Offers strategic analysis of Super Bowl 59, endorsing Patrick Mahomes while also recognizing the potential of Jalen Hurts and other emerging quarterbacks.
  • Notable Quote:

    "If he pulls that off, we got to look at him differently. But I say all of that to say, when you look at Patrick Mahomes... he's going to have another one or two before he's done."

Merriman concludes by emphasizing the importance of adaptability in the media landscape and expressing optimism for his ventures in sports and entertainment streaming.

---

Conclusion:

In this episode of The Stephen A. Smith Show, the host navigates through significant NBA trade discussions and engages with influential guests who provide deep insights into sports media, athlete management, and strategic game analysis. From Russo’s reflections on the changing landscape of sports talk radio to McCaffrey’s evaluations of emerging NFL talent, and Merriman’s entrepreneurial ventures in sports streaming, the show offers a comprehensive exploration of current sports dynamics and future trends. Notably, discussions around potential presidential candidacy add a unique socio-political dimension, showcasing Smith’s versatility in addressing diverse topics beyond the sports realm.

Notable Quotes Recap:

• Stephen A. Smith on Jimmy Butler:

  "Jimmy Butler is Jimmy Buckets come playoff time."

• Christopher Russo on Media Evolution:

  "Just doing radio is not going to work."

• Ed McCaffrey on Christian’s Toughness:

  "He didn't complain once, he bounced right back up."

• Sean Merriman on Entrepreneurship:

  "I wanted to create a streaming service that had all of it aggregated into one form."

---

This summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from the episode, providing a clear and engaging overview for those who have not listened to the full show.

Transcript

[Stephen A. Smith]

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[Stephen A. Smith]

The NBA trading deadline has come and gone. Plus Mad Dog and a few other things to get into. And by the way, a lot of questions have been asked. Is Stephen A. Smith running for President? I will have an answer right now. Holla at your bo. What's up everybody? Welcome to the latest edition of the Stephen A. Smith Show. Coming at you as I love to do at the very least three days a week over the digital airwaves of YouTube. You see that footage right outside? It's New Orleans, Louisiana. This is where I am at and where I have been all week, long before Super Bowl 59, right here in New Orleans. I've been here all week, okay? And I'm gonna continue to be here. And I'm happy to be here and I'm happy to be giving you a show every single day this week. As you know, I care about the people. I care about the people. And that's a nice segue into what I'm about to Talk about for a quick second before I move on to other topics. But before I do that, as always, I'd like to pause and give a thanks and level of gratitude to my subscribers and followers and what have you. Considering the millions of downloads we've received over iheartradio over the last few months, not to mention the subscribers on YouTube that have now eclipsed 1.08 million over the first 22 months of our existence, I cannot thank y'all enough for the love and support. Keep it coming. And I'm going to keep on coming. I'm always thankful for the support, but I never in my wildest dreams, ladies and gentlemen, believe that I would have to thank y'all for the level of support that I'm about to thank you for. Now, I've done a lot of things my life, done a lot of things. And in the world of sports, I'm not gonna lie to you, I appreciate the gratitude, but I think it's earned. I've worked very hard. I've established myself as a pretty significant figure in the world of sports and I'm glad about that. Totally true, totally true. But never in my wildest dreams did I believe that that was would translate into me being polled as a presidential candidate for the United States of America. Now I must tell you, there's quite a few things in life that could have easily shocked me, but it's never had. It's never done that. This is a shocker. I know y'all see me, Fox News one day, CNN the next, MSNBC the next, News Nation the next. You hear me on podcast, Dave Rubin, you hear me on a radio show like Mark Levin, you see me on a television show like Sean Hannity show or Chris Cuomo show, Cuomo on News Nation. You see all of these things and you hear me talking about politics. I've never considered it political talk. I consider it social commentary. When we're talking about the economy, when we talk about health care, education, immigration, safety in the streets, I consider those to be life altering issues that every American citizen has the right to feel passionate about, have fervor about and express themselves about. So I simply looked at myself as doing my civic duty and speaking on these issues. And then lo and behold, some poll comes out and the poll has me receiving 2% for the presidency of the United States of America. Tim Walsh, former VP candidate for the Democratic Party under Kamala Harris, he got 3%. Josh Shapiro, governor for Pennsylvania, he's got some more percentage points. The only person that had double digits was Kamala Harris at 33%. Everybody else was single digits for the 2028 Democratic nomination for the President of the United States of America. And your boys in the mix. Let me say this. I am flattered. I do totally consider myself unworthy of such a thing. I do understand that while I have surface knowledge of current event issues and what's going on in the world or whatever, I certainly don't have intimate knowledge. I've never covered Capitol Hill in my life. Hell, I barely been on Capitol Hill, so I don't think it's deserved. But I will say this. It did give me cause to pause and to think about something. Did y'all know that in order to be the President of the United States of America, in terms of the criteria, all you had to do was meet three. Three standards. Three standards of criteria. You got to be a United States citizen born in the United States of America. You got to be at least 35 years of age, and you need to have lived in the United States for the last 14 years. That's it. And then I watch some of these people speak on these issues. Forgive me, I kind of think I can do a better job. I just do. I mean, in terms of articulating my positions, my thoughts, my passions. I mean, I think I can pull that off. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. Now, it just so happens that I live a pretty decent life. I think y'all all know that my salary is a little bit more than the President actually makes, along with Congressional and Senate figures as well. So monetarily speaking, it's just not to my advantage to engage in politics on an official level because it would compromise my wallet. And I care about my wallet. I am a proud capitalist. I believe in making money. And ain't no damn way I'mma give that up to be president. But then I remembered something. I expect to make some paper over the next few years. I expect to accumulate enough dollars to, dare I say, elevate and sustain my quality of life for a lengthy period of time to come. And taking all of those things into consideration, Although I have absolutely, positively no desire to be a politician, because shaking hands and kissing babies ain't my thing. Being a professional beggar, looking for donors, looking for campaign dollars, looking for elected officials to try to curry favor with them so I can get what I want legislatively and beyond. Although I have no desire to do any of those things, I do have an insatiable desire one day when I'm more qualified, as I really dig my heels into this stuff to be on a stage debating presidential candidates for the United States of America. And in order to do that, I would have to be a candidate. So I must confess to you, as I laid down that picture for you all to consider, I must confess to you that if my money's right, my pockets are tight, my quality of life is sustained. And you came to me and you said to me as the American people that you wanted me to be your nominee for the presidency of the United States of America. I have to confess to you, it is something I would consider. I didn't say I'd do it. I didn't say I want to do it. Me personally speaking, whether it's from a Dave Rubin or a Mark Levin or Sean Hannity to a Wolf Blitzer to a Rachel Maddow or somebody, Chris Cuomo, I think I got a better chance of being a pundit than a politician. But desperate times call for desperate measures. Somebody who's a centrist ain't leaning far left or right, willing to compromise, keep an open mind, fixated on bringing the country together instead of dividing us, I might entertain it. So I only have two things to say to finish this off. Number one, please continue to watch the Stephen A. Smith show right here over the Digital Airways of YouTube and iHeartradio and express your thoughts about what you think my chances would be and whether or not you would support me engaging in such a venture. I'd be interested in knowing how you feel. And other than that, I only have one thing left to say before I move on. God bless you and God bless the United States of America. This is going to be my line to y'all all the time now. All the time. Let's move on back to sports. I gotta get into the super bowl talk a little bit later with Ed McCaffrey, Sean Merriman and of course, the one and only Mad Dog Russo. They'll all be on the show. But first I want to get started in the NBA, where several trades went down yesterday and Jimmy Butler has a new home. The All Star was traded from Miami to Golden State, ending a month's long saga with Pat Riley and the Miami Heat. Sources say as part of the agreement, Butler will decline his $52 million player option for next season and plans to sign a new two year, 111 million dollar deal that carries through the 2627 season. Meanwhile, the Los Angeles Lakers addressed the needed center in the wake of the Luka Doncic trade that sent Anthony Davis out of town. The Lakers acquired center Mark Williams Last night in a deal with the Charlotte Hornets. In exchange, LA agreed to send rookie Dalton connect Cam Reddish, a 2031 unprotected first round pick and a 2030 pick. Swap four to the Hornets rather for Williams. I'll get to this deal in a moment, but I want to start with Jimmy's move to Golden State. I don't think it amounts to much. It has nothing to do with Jimmy. Jimmy Butler is Jimmy Buckets come playoff time. As the playoffs progress, he gets better and better and better. His points per game average increases from the first round to the second round to the conference finals to the NBA Finals. He's that dude. And we know that for a fact because he's taken the Miami Heat to two NBA Finals appearances in four in his first four years there. But when I look at Golden State and the personnel they have around him and the system that they run and what have you, I just don't see Jimmy Butler being that significant an upgrade from the Andrew Wiggins of the world along with others in that system. I think it would have been much better if Jimmy Butler had ended up where he wanted to go, which was to the Phoenix Suns to play alongside Kevin Durant and Devin Booker. That is what I believe would have ascended the Phoenix Suns to championship contention. But Bradley Beal didn't want to waive his no trade clause. His agent is the father of the team, the Phoenix Suns president and gm, and so he's locked in there. He ain't trying to go anywhere. And it is what it is. So Phoenix appears to be a team committed to being mediocre. They have no choice but to do that. They certainly wasn't going to move Kevin Durant, a 27 point per game scorer who's one of the most prolific scorers in the history of basketball. Even at age 36, the brother is still all world. And so you are what you are and that is what we are looking at. I think Jimmy Butler would have been much better off in Phoenix. He couldn't get there. He tried like hell to do it. He couldn't get there. So I think that him and Golden State with Steph Curry, yeah, you didn't stand pat, but you didn't do much either. I think from a basketball standpoint that doesn't enable you to be better off at competing against Oklahoma City, Houston, Memphis, Denver, Dallas, Louisiana, LA Lakers. I don't see it. I just don't see it. That's just me. But I wish Jimmy Butler Luck. 111 million. Yeah, I know y'all are Looking at that, y'all saying, hey, hey, it's a great deal. My issue is he went from a no state income tax state like Miami, Florida to San Francisco, California. That's the highest taxed income tax state in the land. So where that money gonna go to Uncle Sam? That's just me. That's just how I see it. As it pertains to the Lakers picking up Mark Williams, I like this. He's 7 2. He's not an elite rim protector by any stretch of the imagination, but he was good for 16 points per game. He can rebound. He can be formidable, particularly on the offensive boards. And with Luka and LeBron doing their thing, the Lakers could get very, very interesting. I don't think we can summarily dismiss that. Okay, I think the deal of the day might have been DeAndre Hunter going to Cleveland from Atlanta. Now, this brother's a 6, 8 wingman. He can shoot the three at about a 39% clip. He can score, and even though he's far from a shot blocker, he can defend on the wing against bigger guys. You planning on going up against Boston's Jason Tatum or Jaylen Brown? You need these additional bodies of a guy like Mobley, a guy like Jared Allen ain't gonna do those kind of things for you on a regular. So adding him to the mix, I think Cleveland has made it very, very clear they believe they can win the championship right now and they are going for it. And even though I'm a die hard New York Knicks fan, the reality is that I think we may come back to regret not having Mikel Bridges. But the Knicks giving up five picks to get him because if they had a couple of picks they could have kept for themselves. They could have utilized that to get somebody big time to come join Karl Anthony Towns and Mikel Bridges in New York. But obviously the Brooklyn net asked for the house in order to get Bridges. And the Knicks gave in because Jalen Brunson is in New York. And with him being in New York and wanting his college, his college teammate Villanova in Bridges. He got him. But at what price? I think that's the kind of question we'll be asking ourselves come playoff time if Cleveland and Boston end up meeting and one of those teams, especially Cleveland, ends up knocking the Knicks off to get to the conference finals. That's all I have to say about it for now. Those are the only things that were really compelling and interesting to me about the NBA's trading deadline. Kevin Durant is still going to be in Phoenix that's where he wants to be. I just don't see them winning. I really, really don't. If I was Kevin Durant, I might have wanted to go back to Oklahoma City. Could you imagine if they kept Ashe, Gilgis, Alexander, kept Jalen Williams, kept a Hartenstein and a Chet Holmgren, and they added Kevin Durant with all that draft capital Sam Presti has accumulated over the years with the Paul George trade and Russell Westbrook trade and all, could you imagine? But it wasn't meant to be. It wasn't meant to be. That's all I have to say about it for now. But I'll have something to say tomorrow and over the weekend as well. So stick around. You're watching the Stephen A. Smith show coming up. He spent years with the San Diego Chargers and now he's an entrepreneur making moves in a fight game. The one and only Sean Merriman joins us ahead. But first, he's the original sports talk radio innovator. He's my buddy on First Take and he's joining me on my podcast slash YouTube show for the very first time. The mad dog himself, Christopher Russo. Yeah, baby, yeah. You know how he gets. He's walking into the studio. Y'all coming to my spot to cause havoc. He knows how to do nothing else more than he knows how to cause havoc. He's here next right here on the Stephen Smith Show. Don't go away. All right, everybody, listen up. With all the big time sports action that's happening each and every day. NFL games, NBA games, the Stephen A. Smith show wants to make sure you are taking advantage of all of it. That's why we partnered with Prize Picks, the largest fantasy sports platform in all the land, to help you cash in on all your sports knowledge. You see, Prize Picks is a daily fantasy app where you pick two or more of your favorite players and then you select more or less on their projected stats for the game. Choose from any of your favorite players, Travis Kelsey, Patrick Mahomes and Shay Gildrich Alexander all in the same entry. Then sit back and watch. The list is endless. And now with Prize Picks Flex Friday option, you can still cash out even if your lineup isn't perfect. That's right. Every Friday. Just look for the protected play. 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[Hunter]

I'm Hunter, host of Hunting for Answers on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Join me every weekday as I share bite sized stories of missing and murdered Black women and girls in America. There are several ways we can all do better at protecting black women. My contribution is shining a light on our missing sisters and amplifying their disregarded stories. Stories like Tameka Anderson. As she drove toward Galvez, she was in contact with several people talking on the phone as she made her way to what should have been a routine transaction. But Tameka never bought the car and she never returned home that day. One podcast, one mission. Save our Girls. Join the search as we explore the chilling cases of missing and murdered Black women and girls. Listen to Hunting for Answers every weekday on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Welcome back to the Stephen A. Smith Show. It is my honor and privilege to have my next guest. He is an iconic figure in the world of sports talk radio. He is a hall of Famer and, you know, finally people know who he is. They just don't know. They knew who he was before. They just didn't know his face. They didn't know that there was really, really a Mad Dog. As in a Mad Dog Russo. But yes, it is the one and only Christopher Mad Dog Russo in the house. What's up, baby?

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

How you doing, big guy?

[Stephen A. Smith]

How you doing, man?

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

I'm doing well.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So I'm interviewing you right now, which is odd.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Which is an odd.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Interviewed me on many occasions. It is now my turn. How is life? How is life treating you these days?

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Life. I was in Palm beach for a good 10 days and I didn't stay at the Motel 6. I can finally do that. So it's been. I was at the breakers and you know. The Breakers. That's a nice place. So, yeah, good. Very good. But I'm with you now and the two of us can have a little fun. That Howard Stern interview was a lot of fun there. A week ago we got a football game. I gotta find some prop bets to keep me going there on Sunday afternoon.

[Ed McCaffrey]

Right?

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Find me. I'll tell you a prop bet I love.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Oh, go Ahead. I see.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

If you like this one, okay, it's plus 265. So you put $100 down and you win 265 if you get it, okay? A made two point conversion.

[Stephen A. Smith]

A made two point conversion.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

So you can not try it. You got to get it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You got to get it.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

But if there's a penalty and there's a tush push, you got a chance. Elliot misses an extra point. He stinks.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

And the Eagles have to go for two. Sonny's crazy. I think that's a good one.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I think that's. That's a good one, right? Does. Does America know? I mean, are you cool with America knowing that you're a gambling. No, I don't. You're a gambling degenerate. That 15 years. You can't help it.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

I agree. 15 years ago, that would have been a problem. Now people don't care. Everybody gam.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So you were doing it 15 years ago?

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

I sure was. 20 years.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So you were going on the radio every day. You were hiding the fact that you were gambling.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

I sure was. Maybe not the same amounts, but I was. Now that I work with you, I make a little more money. So as a result of that, I can gamble a little bit more.

[Stephen A. Smith]

All right. So when you talk about gambling, because, you know, I mean, I know you got family and all of this other stuff, and you got a wonderful, wonderful wife. She's the best.

[Sean Merriman]

And.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And, And. And you'll sit up there and you take your gummies and all of this stuff and you do what you do. To ask you, doggy, how. How. How much money do you actually gamble? How much money do you bet for the year? On a week, On a weekly. On a week, on a weekly basis. Give me. Give.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

You want the honest answer?

[Stephen A. Smith]

I want the honest answer, doggy.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

I probably. Boy, I want to tell you, I.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You go speak to har. You go speak to me. Give it to me.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

What do you. Well, I'll let you try to.

[Stephen A. Smith]

No, don't give me. Don't give me the answer. I asked you a question.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

I would say about 12. 15,000 a week?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Oh, my Lord. About 12. And how much do you win?

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Well, yeah, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So in other words, sometimes you lose about $15,000 a week?

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Oh, more than that. Yes, sir.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Does. Does. Does Mrs. Russo, Mrs. Mad Dog, does she know that you lose that much money in a week?

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Absolutely. Well, she does now, but absolutely not. Does she know. She would not be happy now. It's not during the. It's only during the football season.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay?

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

This is not in the middle of May, okay. This is not in the middle of June. There's nothing to bet.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So you don't care about the basketball games? You don't care about betting on the basketball game.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

You know, if I do that, Stevie, you know what I'll do? I'll bet the series. I'll give you one I did last year. You're gonna like it. Dallas and Minnesota in the, in the conference final.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay?

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

I love donkey. So I bet Dallas and they got. And they were not favored because they were the road team.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's right. Game seven.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

No, the whole series.

[Stephen A. Smith]

The whole series, okay?

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

So I. I think I probably put 5,000 on it. And Dallas turned out to win that series. So if you do it at plus 115, you had 66, whatever it might be. Do the math. That's pretty good. So I will do the football. Little college, I would say, from Labor Day to Valentine's Day. And then when the postseason comes in the NBA, I'll find a series that I like. Now, the problem with the NBA, as you know, is there very few upsets, okay, In a postseason. Until you get deeper into the postseason, you can't bet an 8 over a 1. It's not going to happen, right? So as a result of that, you gotta be careful. So if you want an upset, you know, maybe a four or five series. So you look at it from that standpoint, but I really just do it during the football season.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Is gambling good for the game, sports?

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

No. No, it's not.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And it's not because.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Well, there's two reasons. The one end, it is good because it makes people aware and it gets more involvement. It's bad because then you get to these conspiracy theories. People lose, they blame it on the athletes. It leads to disharmony between the sport and the fan base. That's why when people play the fantasy and they get. And the player that they play has a bad game. You read all the situations, how on Twitter the player gets killed. That's the bad part about it. I don't go that way. I understand the ins and outs of betting. Some you're going to win, some you're going to lose, and you got to live with it. Plus, I'm not betting my grocery money, as a lot of people are. I'm betting, you know, I'm 65 years old, I can't take it with me. I want my four kids to earn it. So as a result of that, I think I throw it away.

[Stephen A. Smith]

On Gamble. Now you, you know, a lot of people learn when you went on national television that you with these gummies, man. These gum. Now understand, ladies and gentlemen, when we talk about gummies, we ain't talking about some Swedish fish or something we chew on like people like me or some skittles or something. We're talking about gummies, man. You understand what I'm saying? Gummies.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Yep.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You understand?

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Or the real thing.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Either way. And you went on national TV and admitted that. What's wrong with you? I mean, doggy, what do I have.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

To lose at my age, for crying out loud? People, people got into that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes, they did.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

That's why I got away with it. They got it because it's authentic. You got people, I'm not lying.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You got people looking for gummies. Did damn.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Well, how about spear? How about Marcus with his eyes and the fact he buzzed.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I mean people got into Marcus Spears. Yeah, I love Marcus.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Chris looked at me and his eyes bulged.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I love that stuff.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

So yeah. And remember I went to a boarding school, as you know in upstate New York in the mid-70s. You don't think in 75 this you were 10 in hottest queens trying to make laughs.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I was 8.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Well, go ahead, go ahead.

[Stephen A. Smith]

There you go.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

I should have known better. But in 1975 I'm a 16 year old kid at a boarding school in upstate New York. General school. You don't think that I'm in a cold winter night I'm running out there.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So you basically admitted you were getting high as a teenager a lot.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Oh God, yeah, right.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Is that so have you ever found yourself calling out the athletes when you. Because you call out the athletes for a lot of things, but I never once heard you calling them out for getting hot.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Never.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Never.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

How about the old great Cliff Robinson used to be was constantly.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right, that's right. I mean Sugar Ray Richardson.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Oh, that was a bad. And I'm, I'm talking about the marijuana. I'm not going any deeper than that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's right.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

But I, I listen. I went to a boarding school, a Cohen boarding school in upstate New York in the mid-70s. Mid-70s. Now that's not too far away from Woodstock. You mean to tell me that we didn't go out there? Bob Dylan, you know, I love the Dylan like a Rolling Stone.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Let's go get exactly. This is what you're doing. And by the way, just to tell a little inside story, you have no shame. You got your daughter in trouble. So we go out to dinner in Vegas. Ladies and Gentlemen, we go out to dinner in Vegas, and it's me and it's my sister Sumatra. It's my bodyguard juvie. And we're hanging out. We're hanging out. My sister Carmen was there. We're hanging out with the doggy family, Mad Dog Russo, Mrs. Mad Dog, and your beautiful, wonderful Jorda. Okay.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Who? Steve, by the way, did a great job and got her interviews with all sorts of book companies thanks to him.

[Stephen A. Smith]

No problem. This man dimes her out as the one who slid the gummies Christmas time. Slid the gummies. And the wife looked at her daughter like she wanted to kill her. And you looked at your daughter and said, you're on your own.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

I threw her under the bus.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You threw her on your own daughter under your bus? This is who you are.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

And she. She doesn't go near it, but she somehow got it from a distillery when she was at Notre Dame and gave it to me for Christmas a couple years ago.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So it was a Christmas gift?

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Yes, it was a little package. I had it before Molly's. I had it before my mother's burnt ve Parmesan, which you've heard me talk about before. The.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Which you went on the air and criticized on national television. Your own mama's cooking.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Burned it. Not Carmine. She's not. Those lemon. That lemon pie. Whatever it is. The lemon pie and the cookies.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Yes, she gave me the lemon pie, Carmine.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Carmen. Not Carmin. Carmen, My sister's name.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

I'm sorry, Carmen. That's a bad job. I apologize.

[Stephen A. Smith]

There you go.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

You may continue.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Mad Dog Russo, let's get into you for a second, because you've been around a long time, and I remember this. And I'll tell this inside story as well. So you're on the air, and you irritated two people. You irritated Kendrick Perkins.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Oh, I know.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And you irritated Ryan Clark. Ryan Clark said one time, you're not gonna be yelling at me on national television. And they came, and they're like, who the hell is this guy? And I said, have you ever heard of Mad Dog radio? They said, yeah, sure. We listen to it all the time.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

No, they didn't.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And I went like this. Yes, they did. And I said, ah, that's him. They almost faded. And now Kendrick Perkins has said it's on his bucket list to make sure he watches a game with you, because that's how hilarious.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

You think maybe when you have your games and you're watching on tv the playoff game.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's right. We'll do So I asked this question. When you reflect on your career and how long has it been? Just give people a synopsis, just a breakdown of who Mad Dog Russo is and who and what he has meant to sports. Well, that's in the last 35, 40 years.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Let's not go that crazy.

[Stephen A. Smith]

It's just the truth.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

I think the key to it is, you know, better than anybody, we can kid about gummies and kid about. I love sports. You know that I. You call me all the time. I'm watching this. And I know don't mean football, basketball. I mean, I watch the Stanley cup playoffs, you know, I love the baseball. I mean, I'll watch the masters with the golf. You know, I follow Tiger McElroy, you know, I love tennis. You make fun of my tennis swing.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I make fun of how you stick out your belly when you stick with.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

My big belly, but go ahead. So I love all the sports, and I think that is the key. And I think the other key is too. Remember, I'm an only child and I didn't have any siblings. So I almost. To entertain myself back When I was 7, 8, 9 years old, I talked to myself. So I was my. I was talking to myself as my friend. And I think that's helped me become a decent talk show host because I know what I'm thinking because I've talked to myself so much for 50 years.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So you were Tom Hanks in Castaway.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Before Castaway came out a lot of ways. There's some truth to that. Yeah. And he, of course, was sort of an idiot savant. But I think the. Love the sports as much as I do, and I think sometimes you have the gift or the gab or you don't. You obviously have it. My father had it. He was a jewelry salesman and Tony Russo had it. And I took it from him. The personality, the gregariousness, and the idea that you can just, you know, you love to talk. And I think those two ingredients, plus an only child, those which I think helped me, I think those kind of ingredients have enabled me to sort of make this a career. Now, I'm not gonna. I've said this for a lot. So, you know, this. I think this. When I left Mike and Mike and the Mad Dog, you know, I didn't know that. I was hopeful that Sirius would be successful. But in the last four years, the blossoming renaissance, the reincarnation, any word you want to use is attributed to ESPN and it's attributed to you. Because the idea that I had a platform that I didn't have before I just had the radio platform and now I had the TV platform. I think that was that added to the Persona. And I'm lucky because my act can work on radio 40 years. But my act, for whatever the reason, animation, mispronouncing words, don't care what people think. It works on TV in snippets. I'm not saying it's going to work every day, but once a week, go on air for a couple of hours. I'd be amazed the security guards who see me here on your show. It helps the fact that I have been able to make that transition to the clips. Having fun? Don't take yourself too seriously. Misplaced tie microphone coming out of my ear. I think people find that endearing and they don't see that element of me on the radio, they see it on tv. So I've been able to make that transition, which is important.

[Stephen A. Smith]

How worried were you about the trajectory of your career before you arrived on ESPN with first tape?

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

I love the radio so much and I love sports so much. I didn't think. I didn't think too much of it.

[Sean Merriman]

Wow.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

I'm getting stagnant. Wow. I mean I'm not doing anything. I'm 62 years of age and I'm still doing a radio show. I didn't think along that. Along that line. I think about it day by day. You know me. I'm thinking about the next radio show, the next first take. I'm thinking about how you and I are going to handle you and how I'm going to fit in on Friday. That I've always said my job on first take is to make your job a little easier. You know what the mad abouts and things like that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

The list do it well.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

That's what I'm trying to do with you. But I did not look, you know, three or four years ago and I was 62. Well, I'm near the end. What am I going to do now? This is not. I didn't look at it that way. Now, I will say this. I would not. I'm not sure if I would have gotten that contract extension. Boy, I hate to kiss your rear.

[Stephen A. Smith]

End, but I'm not asking you to.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

I don't deserve it, but I'm not too sure. I just signed it 3. As you know in the sub. I don't know if I would have gotten that same deal that I got if it wasn't for you or it wasn't for your SPF them. Because with serious it's important to Stay relevant. And the fact that I showed that I could made it important to them because they like to put people on who are in the whole people were paying attention to. And if I didn't have you, I don't know if that would have worked. So from that standpoint I was very advent, but I didn't think about that three or four years ago. I just happened in the last six months. But I took a day by day radio and then this came along and away you go. I thought I'd be six. I thought I'd be good at it because I've done the debate forever. But I didn't think before I did it. Wow. If I don't find something, I'm dead. I didn't think of it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

How the hell do you have the energy of people in their 20s? How do you pull that off? I mean it ain't like you're out there playing tennis six days a week. You understand what I'm saying? You're Mr. Fitness, you're the modern day Jack LaLanne or something. I mean, how the hell do you have all of this energy?

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

I, you know why I like to perform when that light comes on, whether in any shape, way or form, I like to, I like to perform. I think that's where that only child comes in. Only children sometimes, you know, they strive for whatever the reason, there's a studies that only only child are more successful that you know, from big families because the competition level's a little different. But I like to perform and I think knowing that I can do it triggers something when the light comes on. So although I might be dead as a doornail at 3:00 with the radio, 10:00am with you, whatever I might be doing, I know that I will find it in me to do it. And I think that's the reason. The love to perform is probably the thing that gives me the energy.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Micah, the Mad Dog was the preeminent radio show in the country for the better part of your 19 years together. A lot of people think when they think sports talk radio, they think about you and Mike, Francesa Mike and the Mad Dog doing the show together for all of those years. It was must listen to across the nation. Even though you guys were based out of New York and what have you, wfan. But you take that and you combine that with your career at Sirius xm. How do you sit here today? How are you feeling about the state of sports talk radio?

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Yeah, I'm a little worried about radio in general. You and I have discussed it. I'M a little worried about radio. Even I saw it on Radio Row. A lot of digital. There's not as many stations here. I don't think people are listening to the radio like they did 20, 30 years ago, 15 years ago. I look at my, look at me. I mean, I get more juice out of the ESPN stuff, the clips and all that stuff than I do doing a three hour interview on the radio. So I do think it's a little tricky. I'm a little worried a terrestrial radio struggled. As you know, Sirius has gone through its stages here in the last few years. They were into the podcast, now they're out of it. They got back into the radio thing. Where do they stand there? You know, they tried to Spotify or they got hurt with the music. I mean, there's a lot of things going on with the radio right now that I would be concerned about. This generation is not going to sit there and put the radio on for three hours a day. You know, there's different level. A lot of, lot of young kids don't own cars, so they're in, you know, they're in buses and all. It's just, it's different. So I am somewhat, if I was a radio executive, I would be very concerned about where the business is going. As far as myself is concerned.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's where I was going.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Yeah, I'm, I'm 65 years of age. I love doing the show. I have my little audience with the show, do things that I want to do outside of the radio. First take is one of them. Once a week is, as you and I have discussed, a lot is perfect. I'll do a couple little add ons. I did something for the Vice Network on Brady and Bledsoe. If those kind of things pop up, I certainly will do them. I've written the books. I probably won't go there again, but, you know, I'll pick and choose. And I do love the radio, Stevie, you know, I love that radio. You hear me? I love three hours of the radio. But if you're asking me, am I a dinosaur, the answer is probably yes. Are you asking me how many radio hosts can stand the test of time for 30, 40 years nowadays compared to when I started in 89? I would say very few. It's a different medium to than it used to be.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So with that being said, how do you feel about the advent of the podcast world and everybody, including athletes present and former, having podcasts and things of that nature? As a radio veteran, as a veteran in the business, how do you feel about that now?

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

It's hurt us. There's no question about it, Steve. But the one thing I would say, I think doing a radio show, which you have done day in and day out, five days a week, dealing with what you got to deal with, with the spontaneity, it might be a trade, might be a death, might be a tragedy, might be a weird call. I mean, doing that right at the moment is different than a podcast. You know, you podcast, you tape it, you can set it up properly, you do a couple a week going on. Every day on radio is a different deal. And I'm not sure, you know, if the great podcaster can do the great radio show, but I do feel that the great radio host can do the podcast. If you told me, Chris, you know, today we're going to give you two hours with Kevin Durant. I can do a good two hour interview with Dave with Kevin Durant, right. You know that if I asked a great podcast, okay, you got to come on and you got to start the show, you got to put it on its tracks and you got to break down a Seattle Mariners pitching staff. I'm not sure if that person can do that, right? So I do think it's harder to do radio. But I do think that the American public today, as I said a minute ago, is not out there listening to radio as much as you'd like. They're getting their entertainment in so many different ways. You know, whether it be, you know, you know, all the gadgets, they can use that particular podcast, they like, they can download it, they can hear it when they want to hear it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And the video components is incredibly pivotal. Even if you have a radio, you need a video component with it, otherwise it's not going to resonate so much.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

You know, here's the point. Will. Will there be a mike and a mad dog? Will there be a Mad Dog Unleashed show that last 15, 20, whatever it might be that has that kind of power in the future? The answer is probably no. Would you agree with that?

[Stephen A. Smith]

I think I. If, if they don't adapt to the times and make sure there's a video component attached to your audio component, then I say you're absolutely right. But if you look, for example, if you look at Megyn Kelly, for example, she's on SiriusXM, but her stuff gets re aired and replayed on YouTube and other video out outlets. I think that's made her a powerhouse. I think that other people that are doing it, it's going to make them a powerhouse. But the Days of Mag Mike and the Mad Dog.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Just doing radio is not going to work.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Just doing radio is not going to work.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

So you need another component to help it out.

[Stephen A. Smith]

To help it out. Plain and simple. What's the most, what's the one regrettable thing you've had happen to you in your career? As you think about it, it spans nearly 40 years.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Probably, if I look back at it now, I think some of the dopey Mike and the Mad Dog fights that we had were probably could have easily been avoided. You know, we had a lot of. I'll give you one that you'll find fascinating. Knicks Pacers, I'm going to guess it was 99. It's one of those series, you know.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

And we were going to Game 6 in Indiana. I think the Knicks trailed 32 and we had a delay with a flight. LaGuardia got canceled, so we had to go to DC. Mike didn't want to go to DC. He didn't think it was worth it. I said, mike, we gotta go, gotta go. And we decided not to go. And I blamed it on Mike. Mike, I want to go Indiana. We'll have fun. And Mike said, this is crazy. We're going to go all the way out here. We're going to go to Indiana. Going to get there an hour before game time at Rush. Why would we do that? We do the show from, from the studio. And I didn't want to go all the way back to Connecticut and then drive back to the studio in New York. So that caused a huge rift. You know, we didn't talk for about six months after that because of that. That six months about that. And you know what solved it is the fact that Mike got married and he and his wife insisted that Jeannie and I get go to the wedding. And that broke the ice and we were back together again. Those kind of stupid, idiotic, ego oriented. Chris, shut up. Mike doesn't want to go. It's not the end of the world.

[Stephen A. Smith]

It's not the end of the world.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

I'll go from Mike's standpoint, Mike, we can't go to D.C. and get on a plane and go out to Indianapolis. Is it that big a deal? We could be in the arena. It'd be fun, right? The fact that we had so many of those is odd. And I guess the other thing I probably when I left fan in 08 the summer, I probably should have done a better job with it because I kind of made it secretive. I didn't tell anybody because I was afraid if I did. My contract wasn't up yet. It would be a major mess. I delayed it. Delayed it. People picked up on it and I bothered Mike with it. I didn't handle that right. It's hard to leave someplace where you've been. It's like a divorce.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

You know, some divorces are handled properly and nice and neatly and others are very messy.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

I made my departure very messy and I probably should have done a better job with that. Those two things got you.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So we sit here today, obviously all of that is behind you and everything is in front of you. Now, how much longer you gonna do Mad Dog Rooster, the Mad Dog Channel? How much longer you gonna be on television? How. What television aspirations do you have?

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

What's up, doggy? No, no, no, tell. I mean, the television aspirations was strong, Steve. I mean, they're not gonna make me.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You're pretty damn good.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

They're not gonna make me. Steve McGarrett. So that's. We don't know who that is.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Here we go again.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Yes, they do.

[Stephen A. Smith]

They got movie, Hawaii.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

That is. He was the original McGarrett on Hawaii. Definitely the radio. Because I just signed a three year contract in September, so I'm gonna obviously do another two and a half years of that. I still have plenty of time to go with you, you know, unless I say something stupid. And I have known to get myself in a little trouble with you. The J.J. redick thing with the Fox News is the perfect example. So unless I really dig myself a hole that I can't get out of, and you can get away with it a lot more than I can, that, it's tricky. So let's assume that I stay out of that harm's way and, you know, let's assume I stand out of harm's way. What am I gonna do with my life? I got a million people who have retired too early, Mike. Retired, I think too early. And now I got nothing. Got nothing to do.

[Stephen A. Smith]

What do you mean you got nothing to do?

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

I don't wanna hang out.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Why are you acting like you 85 years old? You got a beautiful wife, you got a beautiful family. They're grown, you know. Now you can get out with the wife more. Maybe if you got a card that gave it to her instead of throwing it at her and forgettin to sign your own damn name to the card.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

I even, even sign the envelope.

[Stephen A. Smith]

This is horrible, you know what I'm saying?

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

I'm wrapped up with Northern Arizona, who lost a terrible game. The Weber State. That's another serious because my kids there.

[Stephen A. Smith]

As, you know, the coach. Right.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

A second assistant.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Second assistant coach.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

That one bothered me, I tell you. I do. I tell you this, though. I'm glad you brought it up. And you did me a big favor. I enjoyed following. I went to West Palm.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

And one of the reasons I went is because my kid, Colin.

[Sean Merriman]

Son.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Is doing four to six.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's right.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

So I can follow him a little bit. Timmy, out there in Northern Arizona. I watch every game. You know me, I watch every game. And I. I went out there in. To see him at Stanford. I'll go there in February to go see a couple games when they play at the end of the year. So I have that going for me. I have some other outlets, but I. Do you see me quitting?

[Stephen A. Smith]

No.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

I want to talk sports.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I think you have at least a legit 20 years.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

No, no, no, no, no, no.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I think so.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

5.

[Stephen A. Smith]

No, not 20. Listen. 15. A solid 15. With your energy.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

80 years old with your energy.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, listen, listen, Hubie. You just finished interviewing Hubie Brown. He'll be Brown at 91 years old, and he's getting ready to call his.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Last game on our network.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's right. I think. I think, listen, you're going to be around a very little because you have young energy. You know, you get into history with some of the. Bringing up some of the comparisons, which.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Is goofy, but people get a kick out of it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

It's hilarious. Right?

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

But I gave you a good one today. I gave you Kareem getting traded from the Bucks.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, I knew that one. I knew that one. That was a good one right there. By the way, we gotta transition to the super bowl in just a second. But I gotta ask you, we just finished talking about trades we've been talking about. Like, you brought up Kareem Abdul, Jabbar, Wilt Chamberlain, Pau Gasol, Shaq went there during free agency. Kobe was traded, draft day, et cetera. But the Lakers acquired Luka Duncan. How you feel about that?

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Yeah, I mean, I don't have a problem with it. You know, he's not going to guarantee them championships. It. It a. I think it gave the NBA a huge boost. And you know the NBA better than anybody. I think they needed it. I think they needed a boost and they got a big boost. Look, they were the Super Bowl. We're talking trades.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's right.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

And you know, he's not the Andre Fox and he's bigger than Durant. He is the Aran Fox. He is a tremendous, tremendous player. And he's in the prime of his career. He's fun to watch. He plays for a big market and goes to the Lakers with LeBron. That's a huge story. And I think the NBA really got a. Myself, personally, I think they got a big boost. You know, tough time of the year, middle of the season, got a long way to go before you get to the playoffs. You got the football going on. The All Star Game's got its own issues. I think it got a huge boost.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I think. I think it's a big deal that you're applauding it as much as you are because you've been down about the NBA season.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

I love it. I love this trade. I was following it. Are you kidding me?

[Stephen A. Smith]

How do you feel about the league itself, the way the culture has changed and the way the game has changed? You got a lot of people. You know, you bring up a guy's salary in a heartbeat. You talk about he's getting paid all this money. You don't want to hear him missing games. You don't want to hear about Argu. Don't get you started with Jimmy Butler. You're done with him. Today he went on national television and said, I'm done with Kevin Durant.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

I'm down on him, too.

[Stephen A. Smith]

How you down on Kevin Durant?

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Enough with these trades, Gez. But I'm old school with that. But I'll tell you right now, Steve, you know better than anybody, when the games count, I'll be on top of these games. Yeah, when we.

[Stephen A. Smith]

When.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

When Cleveland's playing, you know, the. When the Knicks are playing the cell. I mean, that's even too strong, right? Even when Orlando, even these playing games, I'll be totally into it. You know, me, regular season in some of the sports, the NHL, the NBA, even baseball, you know, football is different because football, the games, you know, forget football. But those other sports, the regular season, you know, I can get a little bored because there's so many games. You know, it's 82 games in hockey and the NBA. Once those playoffs start, once we get past the NCAA tournament, I'll be in those games. You know that better than anybody. You'll say, geez, Russo can break down Golden State. You're damn right. You get to Golden State, Sacramento, you pick a series, right? I know those. I don't know the players as well as you guys do, because you follow it every day. In a regular season, once those teams play big games, I'll be on top of those teams as well as anybody. And that's what I really look forward to. And that's when I don't care about the money. I don't care about load management. I care about the greatness of the game. And we'll get to that point here soon enough. Once we get, you know, middle of March and you get down to 15 games and who's in play in and play all positioning and home court. Knicks, Celtics and I'll be totally into that. I gotta get there, though. You know, middle of January. You know me better than anybody. Middle of January. Chris, can we. Let's break down, you know, a Celtic Cav game. I understand that's an interesting game, but because of the records. You know what? I'll catch the. I'll catch the second half. I'm not. You're going to be there. Basket by basket, I'll catch the second half. But once we get to mid March and get a little past the NCAA that last couple weeks of the season, I'll be completely into it. And that's why I love sports so much. No matter what the sport is. Hockey, same thing. Golf, same thing. I'll be into it. When the game. When it's championships to be decided, I'll be in it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Are you still jealous that I was at game seven of the Stanley cup finals? Yes, I was.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

And you FaceTime. That was a disgrace. And I'm not made at you. I made it. Bettman.

[Stephen A. Smith]

What? I mean, that's my buddy. I mean, the commissioner of the National Hockey League, that's my guy.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

You know how many times that I did a hockey show for five hours on the eve of the playoffs on Sirius at the NHL store and talked to the assistant GM of the Calgary Flames on the way to a playoff series, right? On April 8, Wash. I'm talking of Calgary Flames. I'm breaking down.

[Stephen A. Smith]

The only thing I know about hockey is that the puck is black.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

I'm breaking down a wild Winnipeg Jet, best of seven, first round. And then this guy is down at that arena for a Panther Edmonton final. And I'm sitting there and I'm in my house dealing with, you know, my two dogs, Bo and Riley, who I gotta wipe down because it's raining outside. My wife says you bring him inside and wipe their paws. Honey, it's the third period and you call and you text me on the phone with. Who else was there? With Barkley?

[Stephen A. Smith]

I was with Barkley Usman, the. The UFC fighter as well, you know.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Yes, you were, but Barkley's the guy. And I'm sitting there and I've been following this Sport and the postseason and you cherry picking. That's Bethman's fault. Gary. Gary. Where's the camera, Steve? Gary, really. You know what? That's not fair. That's not fair.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But it's the same thing with the sweat online.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

You get a freaking to the premier in New York.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, you didn't get. But, but we got you to London.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

You got me.

[Stephen A. Smith]

We got you to London and the premiere in London and you on a red carpet and everything. Stepping down.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Even they made. Bman has not made up for it yet.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, he. He doesn't have to. You. I'm saying you all of a sudden with Gary Bettman.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

You could have named three orders for crying.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I could. I couldn't. Absolutely could not.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

And you love the food that night. Oh, you were raving about. The food was delicious.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Delicious. It was delicious. I had an absolutely marvelous time. No question about it.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

See, here's what people don't realize about Stevie. Oh, Lord A, he's a great entertainer, but he loves being part of the big event. Oh, you love that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

I don't want Roger, Roger at the Super Bowl.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I want to roll. I want to roll into the event.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Like the Knicks with the famous picture of you coming in.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I mean, that's just me right there.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Love that. That you love that. Now I would love it too. But I never get the invites.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You don't get the invites.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

And I come in with a pair of jeans and a white T shirt and you're dressed with the three piece suit.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Do you realize you're the guy that went to a Bruce Springsteen concert and you were sitting on the floor but about 10 seats back? Yes. Who's gonna notice you there? I mean, if you gonna pimp it, you got to pimp it right.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

And you do it great with that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You got to do it right. When I walk into. I didn't ask the cameras to follow me when I roll up at the arena for the bottles of the bottom. But when I roll up, you gonna know I'm there.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

You're bigger than life. You, you, you. From a media perspective, you are bigger than life. I'm a acquired taste. I'm a little different than you. People don't. They're not that they're not as curious with me. They're curious with you. That's the key.

[Stephen A. Smith]

What if I started taking gummies? How do you think Stephen A. Would be with gummies?

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

I guarantee you right now you'd be eating a lot more food. And you know, I, I don't want to hear about your 40 pound weight loss, you'd be eating those piles cookies. Oh, my God. I, I is a good one. Was it the Baltimore, was it the board? Yeah, it was Baltimore.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Pittsburgh when I went to the Ravens game.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

They drove you down in a freaking limo to go to a Ravens game? Because the governor wanted.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I drove there myself.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Oh, you did?

[Stephen A. Smith]

I did.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

I thought he gave you an escort.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Oh, they did. Had an escort for me once I parked, see? Yeah, I was with the governor.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

The politicians and the commissioners, they get a lot of bang for their buck when you are an invited guest, right? Me, I'm just a fan, right? We can invite Chris. Who gives a crap? Nobody's gonna want to see him. You would come in.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Must you be jealous? Must you be bad? I mean, you went off on Roger Goodell. Roger Goodell takes me out to dinner during the super bowl last year.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

You're upset about it and you blew me off. That's the other.

[Stephen A. Smith]

What do you mean blew you off?

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Because I had that dinner and I said, you got to come, and you blew me. First time Apollo. I'm in. Roger Rogers driving me back to my hotel. I can't make it, Steve. Really? Now, I mean, come on, that's not fair. I mean, Roger good. I mean, I like, and I, I like to make fun of Roger, but I love, you know, you know, I like.

[Stephen A. Smith]

He's a good man.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

I like, I really do. I mean, I like to make fun of him, but that's part of the act, right? Here's the thing, too. Never make it personal, right? Because if you make it personal, people can see through that, right? So when I kill the fan, I kill the official officials today with the. That was from the heart. But I didn't mention any official. What a loser he is. He doesn't care. I just talked about the big picture. I think that people, they, they relate to that. And you got to let it, you can't hold on to it. You let it go to the next.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You got a baseball show on, on ML.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Well, I'm not doing it anymore.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You're not doing that anymore, right? But you have it. You were doing it for 11 years. For 11 years, right? You, you know that. You, you were upset at me too, when I was in Rob Manfred's house.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Oh, that's another commissioner.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That was another one.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Plus, you got Manfred to come to the studio. He would never come for me. And you got him first take studio.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And to sit with you.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

You did a good job at that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes, I did.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Yeah. And Manford does love you and Manford wanted me to get you to go to. Well, he didn't. Courtney did his right hand man to Rick to the stadium and, And Birmingham.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's right.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

With Willie Mays.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's right.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

You had the NBA final said, guys, he's got Game 6 in the NBA finals. He's not going to make it. That. But you are. That's what I mean. You are. You're a magnet for these. You're a magnet. I am not a magnet. I'm a normal, you know, I'm a little bit of a goofball, but I'm not a magnet. You are a magnet. That's important.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Keep that in mind. I don't know about all. I don't know about all.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Now why is Bettman inviting you to a. And the governor of Maryland?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Because we want to do that. Because we want to do that. Hockey. That's why we want to do that. Hockey. That's what we were doing.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

You go eyeballs follow.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Because. Okay, so you want me to take you with me next time?

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

I, I like an invite. You know, if I blow it off, I blow it off.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I invite you. Would that be enough? Well, I want.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You want the invite from them. See, so I thought you just wanted to go. Oh no, you got to get the first invite from the commissioner. That's asking for too much.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

I don't want to be a plus one.

[Stephen A. Smith]

What's wrong with being a plus one?

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

I want to be for there people.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That be plus one.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

I, I'm Chris Roussel. I want to say, you know what? He's good enough to let him go too. How about we both get a phone call? How about if Gary calls you and you know what, let's call Russo too.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So much work. Call me. I get you. We do it together. That's all. Look, man, let's get into the super bowl, man, before I let you get on out of here. Philadelphia, Kansas City. What are you thinking about right now? What's it going to. How is this game going to be decided in yours?

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Well, that's an interesting call. I probably, I will probably bet the Eagles and I probably will do that because the last time the Chiefs lost here, the Bucks out defensive line killed their offensive line. And the Eagles, you mentioned it today, they're good in the trenches. They got a good offensive line and Carter and those guys on defense, they got a good defensive front and I think that could overwhelm that line. At least the offensive line of, of the Chiefs. That could be a Big factor in the game. Now again, you're betting against Mahomes, you're betting against Spagnolo, who's a very good defensive coordinator. And you know, Reed, he's great and he likes to beat the Eagles. Lori threw him out the door. He likes to beat the Eagles and I think that's dangerous. But again, law of averages, they've won 17 games in a row. One possession, one, 17 games. That's like winning 17 NBA games by, you know, four points or less. One of these days the ball's gonna bounce the other way. They're gonna kick a field goal that's gonna hit the upright and bounce out instead of bouncing in.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

You know, they're gonna be in a situation. They beat the Broncos, they block a field goal, they beat the Chargers. The ball hits the upright and knocks in, you know, they beat Buffalo maybe because of an inch on a spot. Yeah, he gets that spot 22, 21. They might, Buffalo might win the game.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

One of these days that's going to go against him. And they were lucky to beat the Eagles two years ago and now they got Barkley. So maybe I'll take Philly.

[Stephen A. Smith]

If Patrick Mahomes finds a way to win the super bowl championship his third straight, would you put him above Brady?

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

I put him. You know me, I've said that all the time. Now there's two different things. I think he's the best quarterback I've ever seen, but I can't put him over Brady because he's got the seven rings and he's only got three and a one. And he also lost a Brady twice, head to head, which hurts him. He lost a playoff game, remember, Championship. So Brady's beating him. He's got three playoff losses. Burrow beat him the other time, twice Brady's beaten him, so that hurts him. But this is the one thing Brady wouldn't have, is the three peat Patriots never won a three peat Giants and everything else. This is the one thing Brady wouldn't have. And it hasn't been, you know, never in a Super bowl era, quote unquote, it's never been done. So this would be a big edge for my homes. Now if I had a game to win, I would take Mahomes over Brady only because I like his running ability.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay?

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Because he runs so well. I, Brady was not a runner. I would take Mahomes. Now I can't do that historically because of the numbers seven to three, but this would be one that he'd have over Brady, the three peat.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Last question. If Saquon Barkley goes in the super bowl and he rushes for 150 plus yards, couple of touchdowns, looks as spectacular as he has looked all season. Is it the greatest performance by a running back in NFL history because of.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

The fact he's had 2,000 yards? Well, you know Dickerson had a bad game against the Bears. He fumbled twice when he had the big year. You know, Simpson never gotten to this spot deep into the postseason. Gail Sayers never did anything. Franco's not considered on his level.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Not at all.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

How about Emmett Smith? You want to put Emmett Smith in this? You know he had won Super Bowls. He's great. He's got the y most draw. Peyton was near the end when The Bears won 85. So you can't go with him. Yeah, that's a good point, Steve. I hadn't thought of that. You're right. If he wins this game and he's had two great playoff games, if he wins this game and he has a big performance off the 2,000 yards, you could definitely solidly make that point. That's an excellent point. I hadn't thought of it. You're right. You could do that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

The one and only Chris. You're the best, Mad Dog Russo.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

See you warming up today. Now I'll be easy for the radio. I love it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

The one and only man Door Rooster right here in the house with Stephen A. Coming up. He's a three time super bowl champion who has two sons in the National Football League. He's also a former teammate of my man, the one and only Shannon Sharp. The man himself, Mr. Ed McCaffrey joins the Stephen A. Smith Show. He's got a lot of things to say about Shay Shay, about Christian and especially about this super bowl matchup coming up next. I think I told you he was a three time Super bowl champion, right? He would know Ed McCaffrey up next. Don't go away.

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[Hunter]

I'm Hunter, host of Hunting for Answers on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Join me every weekday as I share bite sized stories of missing and murdered black women and girls in America. There are several ways we can all do better at protecting Black women. My contribution is shining a light on our missing sisters and amplifying their disregarded stories. Stories like Tameka Anderson. As she drove toward Galvez, she was in contact with several people talking on the phone as she made her way to what should have been a routine transaction. But Tameka never bought the car and she never returned home that day. One podcast, one Mission. Save our Girls. Join the search as we explore the chilling cases of missing and murdered Black women and girls. Listen to Hunting for Answers every weekday on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Stephen A. Smith]

My next guest was a first team All American at Stanford, a three time super bowl champion and Pro Bowler. He's an NFL father and he also knows something about playing in the big game. Obviously, I did say he's a three time super bowl champion, right? Please welcome the one and only Mr. Ed McCaffrey. How are you, sir?

[Ed McCaffrey]

How are you doing? Great. Thank you, man. I'm a little intimidated.

[Sean Merriman]

Why?

[Stephen A. Smith]

For me?

[Ed McCaffrey]

Just because you are. We're a big fan, the whole family.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I appreciate it.

[Ed McCaffrey]

You are a true professional. Quite the entertainer. And you got a lot of energy.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Hey, listen, let me tell you something. I love your son Christian. I tell you that much. I'm a huge Christian McCaffrey fan. If that brother was healthy, see, The San Francisco 49ers might be playing today. That's how I feel about your son. That's how gifted I think he is. But we'll get into him a little bit later. First things first, you have a son, if I remember correctly. Luke.

[Ed McCaffrey]

I got four of them.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I know you got four.

[Ed McCaffrey]

Luke is the youngest.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right in place for the Washington command. Yes.

[Ed McCaffrey]

Yes.

[Stephen A. Smith]

How is he right now? I didn't expect that kind of beat down in the MC Championship.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Yeah.

[Ed McCaffrey]

You know what? They played great all year. If you look back at the beginning of the season, what people were predicting, four to six wins. They had no idea what kind of job Dan Quinn would do. He was a phenomenal head coach. Every. Everyone embrace what he was preaching. They had a great culture. Kingsbury did an excellent job on offense, fitting Jaden Daniels into his system. Jaden Daniels, I mean, blew the doors off of it. Right? Incredible. So Luke had a really, really fulfilling and exciting rookie season. Rookie season's always your toughest season, but he had a. He had a lot of fun. They got all the way to the NFC Championship. Had that big upset over a really good Detroit team. Turnovers were the difference in the game. Yeah, they really were. And taking nothing away from Philly, they're incredibly talented, but, you know, in a close game against a good team, that's going to be the difference. And it was no different for Washington, but they're very. We're very excited about the future in Washington. The fan base is back and getting excited about the team again.

[Stephen A. Smith]

As a dad, as a dad who played in the National Football League and won at the highest level, what kind of verbiage, what kind of words did you hear from your son about Jaden Daniels? What was he telling you throughout the season?

[Ed McCaffrey]

Well, he knew in training camp, he's like, he's the real deal. You know, he's incredibly athletic. He's very calculated. You could tell throughout the season. That first game against Tampa Bay, I went to watch that game in person and you could tell he was getting used to his teammates, getting used to the speed of the game. Did a great job of protecting the football. Obviously is athletic and could make plays with his feet, but he was also just, you know, kind of feeling his way through the NFL. Then a couple weeks later against Cincinnati, that was, to me, his breakout game. He's like, okay, I'm going to show you who I am. And he started completely caught that through that incredible touchdown pass to Terry McLaren, who they did a great job of moving around and getting involved in the game plan. And then you could see for sure at the NFL level, he can complete passes against any defense. He can make plays with his feet, he can extend plays. But the thing I think impressed me the most about him was his toughness. You know, he's a slender, athletic quarterback, he runs the ball a lot, but he took some wicked shots. He had some cracked ribs. He didn't complain once, he didn't complain about his ribs, didn't make an excuse, bounced right back up, got in the game and kept playing. So true dual threat, quarterback speed, quickness, he can read defenses. He got better as the year went on. He can complete every pass in the route tree and he is one tough quarterback. And again, for me, after the athletic ability, toughness is the quality I look for in football players, especially in your quarterback.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You know, I'm interested because, I mean, obviously you being a three time super bowl champion and playing with the likes of John Elwood, you know a thing or two about what makes a great quarterback back. And it seems to be fluctuating in this day and age. One minute you look at a guy and he's an elite passer, another minute you look at a guy and you say he's a dual threat. He can beat you with his legs, he could beat you with his arm. If you beat you with you. If he beat you with his legs more so than he beat you with your arms. You're the Jalen hurts of the world. People are looking at you saying you're talented, you're gifted, you can do some things, but you're not quite Patrick Mahomes, et cetera, et cetera. Looking at Josh Allen, you're great, but not quite Patrick Mahomes. What is it outside of everything you just articulated, if there's one intangible amongst a great quarterback that puts one above the rest of them? Patrick Mahomes is great, but so is Josh Allen, so is Lamar Jackson. Show is Joe Burrow. Why does Patrick Mahomes win? Especially when it comes to those guys?

[Ed McCaffrey]

Man, if I had the answer, if every other coach in the NFL had the answer right, they'd be doing it. So I mean, he's a special talent. There's no doubt about it. He's revolutionized the game. Like I look at Steph Curry and how he shoots three pointers. He revolutionized the game here. You know, he's a step back shooting from his hip, from the range that he was shooting at. He changed the way younger kids are learning how to shoot the basketball. In football. Nobody was allowed to throw sidearm passes and off balance passes and do some of the things he did. And luckily as a coach that believed in him early on and said, look, he's so special, if he does make a mistake doing these things, I'm going to live with it because of all the good that comes out of it. And so now quarterbacks are throwing off angle throws and it's amazing. I think he's changed the game for quarterbacks. I think one of the skills that the elite players have in any sport is anticipation. The game isn't that fast for them compared to maybe some others. They just see things all at once at the same time. They have great vision and great anticipation and I think he has it. And he also has an uncanny ability. Maybe he doesn't get enough credit for it at eluding tacklers. And he's a little different than a Lamar Jackson or even a Jayden Daniels in that there's a lot of times guys get near his legs and they swipe out at him and they don't get him down. You know, he breaks arm tackles, he's a very strong lower body. He extends plays. And one thing they do as an offense is, you know, they practice. They practice plays where the play is breaking down, the route is over, and now it's another play. I mean, they, they practice that all of the time. The play breaks down. Every receiver knows where they're going on the field. And he does a good job of keeping his eyes downfield, throwing on the move and off balance and finding guys after the play's broken down. And to me, some of the biggest plays that they make are once the play's over, Andy Reid draws up a great play. Nobody's open or there's pressure. He gets outside the pocket. Everyone knows where they're going on the field. He knows where they're going, extends the play, makes a completion or makes plays with his feet by running and picking up the first down. And in the Super Bowl a few years ago, that happened. And in a lot of the big games they've played this year, that has happened where he does. He's not part of the designed run game, but, you know, nobody's open. You're playing man coverage or players drop. He finds the lane and picks up 10 yards or 11 yards and gets the first down. So I think he's going to have to do that in this one. I really do.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Because.

[Ed McCaffrey]

Because this Philadelphia Eagles defense is incredible. They like to rush four. They don't bring a ton of pressure. Vangio does a great job of disguising coverage on the back end, plays a lot of quarters, disguises, cover two, cover six rotates into cover three. He'll bracket receivers, but if they drop into coverage and there's four rushers, if one of them loses a lane or if there's nothing going and Patrick Mahomes has time, he'll take off up the middle or outside and be able to make a play. Now they on Philadelphia defense will allow receivers to get in the kill zone. If he starts to run, you better believe they're going to try to hit him. They're not going to play softball with him. Right. And so. But it's going to be one of those games. It's going to have to be physical. And it was years ago, I think Damian Williams rushed for over 100 yards for him and had two touchdowns. One was called back and then Patrick Mahomes had to rush for one in that game to win it. It and it could be that type of a game where they're dropping in coverage, they're getting decent pressure, he might have to make plays with his feet. Receivers gonna have to catch the ball and take hits underneath. And if he does have time though in this game, if he does have time and it's not going to be easy and they establish a little bit of a run game, they're going to go up top.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So who do you have?

[Ed McCaffrey]

I don't, I'll pick maybe later in the week, but I think for me the three kids.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Is it close though? Is it close?

[Ed McCaffrey]

I think it's a close game. Which, which, which is why my third key is really important. First key for me, for Philadelphia, you're going to have to connect on a chunk play, play action pass early in the game because everybody knows you got to stop that run game of Philadelphia. They have the best run blocking offensive line in football. They have a 2000 yard rusher and Saquon Barkley at running back, their quarterback has 14 touchdowns, leads their team in touchdowns. They can run the football. So Spags is going to come up with something to try to get them off balance on first or second down. You're going to twist, you're going to stunt, maybe you blitz the run. You gotta, you gotta have a TFL or stop mother line of scrimmage. You can't live in third and short against the Eagles. So he's going to design something and, and they already know they can run the football so you don't have to run it early to prove you can run the football. Everybody knows the Philadelphia Eagles can run the football, so they're going to have to dial up a play action pass or two. Maybe it's AJ Brown, I interviewed him the other day. He's got his game face on already, right? A little bit frustration maybe because they don't pass the ball a whole lot. But in this game it doesn't matter what you did before, only matters what's going, what you're going to do in this game. So I think they're going to go up top early in the game either to Devonte, to A.J. they're going to take a couple shots up top.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Now if they're going up top, they're going to AJ Because AJ Loses mind if somebody else got that opportunity. So they're going to AJ So they're.

[Ed McCaffrey]

Going to do that. And for, for Kansas City offensively I think they need to establish a little bit of a run because they like to drop seven in disguise coverages. And even though Patrick Mahomes can identify it eventually, if they create any pressure with four at all, he's either going to have to run the ball or it's going to be tough to find openings and the secondary is Good. Third key, real quick. Third key is do not let Kansas City finish with the football. And that's, that's where Coach Sirianni is going to have in my. I hope it comes down to this. We've been talking about it all day. You know, it's going to be. Maybe Philadelphia has the ball at the end of the game. Maybe they have a lead. Maybe they're by a field goal. There's a minute, something left. They need to get a first down to end on offense. It's fourth down. Maybe it's fourth and one. Maybe you're backed up, you haven't crossed the 50. It's going to depend on the flow of the game for sure. But do you just say, forget it, we're going, we're not giving Patrick Mahomes the ball back. We've seen him score in 15 seconds.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I've got my own fantasy.

[Ed McCaffrey]

Yeah.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I want Patrick Mahomes to have the lead for the change. For a change. I want Patrick Mahomes to surrender the football. With Kansas City up four and the Philadelphia Eagles need the touchdown and it's two minutes or less left in the game and Jalen hurts and Saquon and the crew gotta go down there and finish the deal. In other words, I want Patrick Mahomes to have to sit on the sidelines and wonder what's gonna happen. It's not in his hands. He's got the lead. He did his job like other the Josh Allens of the world or Lamar Jackson's of the world or somebody. They did their job, but Jalen hurts a couple of years ago did their job, but Patrick Mahomes had to let the ball last. I want somebody else to have a ball last.

[Ed McCaffrey]

That would be a great finish. I would like to say that. I would. It would be neat to see Jalen hurts have that opportunity.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right.

[Ed McCaffrey]

I remember the last time these two teams played just a couple years ago, it was Patrick Mahomes that led his team on a five minute drive to end the game and take a knee. Philly couldn't get the ball back.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's right.

[Ed McCaffrey]

Right. And so in my opinion, based off of everything they've done historically, the best thing Philadelphia can do is hold the ball until that clock ticks down to zero. You do not want to give Patrick Mahomes Andy. I actually think their offense is better in a hurry up two minute situation.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I agree.

[Ed McCaffrey]

And. And you wonder why you don't do it the entire football game. That's your.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Because the entire football game everybody's not In a panic in the last two minutes, you know, everybody else, their palms are sweaty, their backsides are tight, they scared to death because listen, we got to stop this, man. The game's on. The line is about to end and it's in Patrick Mahomes hands. So they were in panic mode.

[Ed McCaffrey]

I agree.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Early in the game, that's not going to be the case.

[Ed McCaffrey]

And you can't play prevent on him. He'll pick you apart all the way down the field, right. And so you're getting, you know, if you are going to find yourself in a situation, then you have to man up and put pressure on Patrick Mahomes. But he can find the open man. You're going to go one on one with Kelsey, right? You're going to let Hollywood Brown or Xavier Worthy take off down the field. You got JuJu Smith, Schuster, you got DeAndre Hopkins. He's going to find the matchup. So it should be a great game. I expect a great game. If it was me, I don't think as a coach, at the end of the game, if I had a chance to go forward on fourth down and end the game on offense, I don't know if I could not take advantage of that opportunity, I'd have to do it. I've seen it happen. Last year, I saw it happen. You know what really stuck with me from last year's super bowl and I still have PTSD from last year. Okay, 49ers lost the game.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah.

[Ed McCaffrey]

Felt like there was a million different ways they could have won it. Felt they should have won it. Felt up until they lost that game they were the better team, but they weren't because they lost the game. But in that game, if, you know, San Francisco kicked field goal and Kansas City, you know, obviously scored a touchdown one. But you know, we were talking about what, you know, had San Francisco done this or that and scored a touchdown, they'd have beat him. And Patrick Mahomes without hesitation said, oh no, we'd have gone for two. But that's how he's thinking, right? He's like, even if you scored a touchdown, it wouldn't have mattered. You can get the ball first and score a touchdown. We're going to.

[Sean Merriman]

And.

[Ed McCaffrey]

And it's hard to doubt him just based off what he's done. You're like, Andy Reid has one of those plays he got, he called 17 years ago that he dials up in the super bowl and he can do it for a two point conversion. And you're like, okay, well maybe let.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Me get to you with this one, with all of this stuff that we're talking about involving quarterback play, Great quarterback play. How are you feeling about your son's quarterback in San Francisco, Brock Purdy?

[Ed McCaffrey]

I'm a big fan of Brock Purdy. Brock Purdy. Christian, believe it or not, got traded mid season and the first game that he played was against the Kansas City Chiefs. And he didn't even practice. He got traded thinking he was playing for the Panthers one week, and then all of a sudden he's in San Francisco and it's like, we got a game, but I don't have time to practice. Practices are over. It was late in the week week and coach Shanahan wasn't going to play him. And Christian's like, I'm playing, you're not going to not play. You know, I'm ready to go. But it was Brock Purdy that walked him through every play of the offense. And afterwards he's like, hey, you know, this Brock Purdy dude's the real deal. He knows our whole offense inside and out. He was giving me coaching points because I just got here, hadn't even studied the playbook. He was telling me everything to do and he was really impressed with him. So when he got Christian's endorsement, he immediately got my endorsement. And I watched him in practice. But you don't know in practice, right? You know, what is that going to look like in a game? Not every quarterback has the it factor. I think Brock Purdy has the it factor. I think he's their guy. I think the coaches love him.

[Stephen A. Smith]

He's worth 50 plus million dollars. Like Trevor Lawrence, Joe Burrow and all of these guys. That's Brock Purdy, sir.

[Ed McCaffrey]

It's the neighborhood you're moving into, right? Like that's what, that's the price of admission.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay?

[Ed McCaffrey]

Do you know what I mean? And so, I mean, you can try to rework contracts. You may have to lose players to sign them. You know, I just, I've always believed that when you have a player that you believe in, if he's your guy, you're going to have to pay him.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Take care of him.

[Ed McCaffrey]

And if it's your quarterback, I mean, I've, we've seen the Kirk Cousins route. Let's put him them, let's franchise tag him a couple different years and see how that plays out. I don't think it's good for your quarterback. I don't think it's good for your team to have that position in question. I think if you believe in them, you believe in them. If you don't, you don't.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Got you.

[Ed McCaffrey]

But if you do, you do. I believe it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right before I let you go, I got to talk to you about this right here. These protein bites. McCaffrey protein bites.

[Ed McCaffrey]

Yes, McCaffrey brands you can [e-mail] but this is a snack. Say you're doing the show, you have a break. You can't eat a cheese stack, right. You can't bring Kansas City barbecue and eat it mid. You get a couple of bites of these. Gluten free, non GMO vegan. They got protein in them, which is good for energy. Now you're at a 10 most of the time, but there's going to be times where your energy level slips down to maybe a nine or an eight. I don't think you go below eight.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I don't go below eight, no.

[Ed McCaffrey]

But you might go down to nine or eight, have a couple of protein bites, get you through the rest of the show. But kids love them. They taste great. That's the great thing about them.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Definitely don't check them out. You see all of these big people in here, they're gonna like you guys like pizzas and the burgers, you know what I'm saying? They ain't eat the protein.

[Ed McCaffrey]

These guys know their way to the weight room so they're. They're eating a lot of protein. But. But these taste delicious. Cuz you've all eaten healthy food, right? And it tastes like cardboard or the sole of your shoe. And I wouldn't put my name on if they didn't taste great.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I got you. Before I let you get on out of here. Forgive me for asking this question, but one of my boys is Shannon Sharp. Yes. Your former teammate. Yes. What kind of a teammate was Shannon?

[Ed McCaffrey]

He was an incredible teammate. You would not find a harder worker. Worker. I mean, you look at him, you know, he knows his way to the weight room too, right?

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's right.

[Ed McCaffrey]

Right.

[Stephen A. Smith]

The man is still one of the.

[Ed McCaffrey]

Hardest workers I've ever met. And he embraced coach Shanahan's philosophy of working hard in the run game and doing whatever he could to help our team win. Hall of Fame tight end, great friend. And the personality he has on air is the personality he had in the locker room. He was the guy joking around with guys about the ties they were wearing and the suits they were getting on the bus with and cracking all kinds of jokes, folks. And he lightened up the mood. So he had the highest of expectations. He's someone who knew where he was going As a football player early his he had an older brother that he loves, he loves. Sterling was an incredible player. He's really pushing for him to get into the hall of Fame. So he had a great older brother to set the example. And I think that was one of the things that allowed him to set his goals really high. He wanted to be a Hall of Fame player and he, every decision he made was in order to help him become a Hall of Fame player. And he, but the, the guy you see on TV was the guy I know in the locker room, friendly, lightening up the mood like we're getting ready to play super bowl or getting ready to play a playoff game and he'll crack a joke and just make sure everyone's a little bit loose so we can play our best football. And he's authentic.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But you have to put in the work. Cuz he don't play. He's got to put in the work.

[Ed McCaffrey]

And when he, when he does his show, he's serious about that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right?

[Ed McCaffrey]

You know, you know, you didn't luck into the position that you're in. You're good at what you do, you love what you do, but that's a start. But then you put a lot of time and effort into it and Shannon's no different. I think you approach is what he does with the media the way he approached NFL.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Wow. It's a pleasure to meet you, man. Thank you so much. One and only Ed McCaffrey right here on the Stephen A. Smith Show. You see him, Christian McAffrey, I'm one of his biggest fans. That brother can play. San Francisco might be here if that man was healthy. Just remember I said that. Just remember I said that. Coming up, he's a former Pro Bowler who earned the Monica lights out from his playing days with the Chargers. Now he's in entrepreneur in the fight game, among other things. We'll be joined by the one and only Sean Merriman next right here on the Stephen A. Smith Show. Don't touch that D. Lights out, ladies and gentlemen. Lights out. That is what they called my next guest. He had obviously, I think an illustrious NFL career in the short time that he was in the National Football League. I mean, my God, the guy was in high school knocking people unconscious matches. And as you can see, he's very, very capable of still doing that. Former NFL linebacker extraordinary. The one and only Sean Merriman in the house.

[Sean Merriman]

What's up bro?

[Stephen A. Smith]

How have you been, man? How's everything, bro? Good, good.

[Sean Merriman]

Doing well, man. Just, you know, got when you get down here to the super bowl, man, this radio roll and all this stuff to come up, man. It's probably about my 15th one, right? Then you start seeing everybody again that you don't get a chance to do in the year, man. So that's probably the favorite time for me.

[Stephen A. Smith]

What's it like for you to be at super bowl week? Radio Road? Not just the media, but the NFL. All the allure, all the players present and former everybo body here. What's that like for you, you know.

[Sean Merriman]

You know, when you retire, man, you get this little separation from the game, right? Take you a couple years to like, emotionally detach from the game and then you become a fan. Like, I can actually talk about the game. When I retired like that first year or two, it was hard for me to go and talk to the media. I just didn't want to talk about the game because I actually felt like I should be, you know, still playing right now, man. You can kind of relax and enjoy the festivities and kind of be a part of doing it and too, man. It's a lot of media promoting, getting a lot of stuff in people's faces.

[Stephen A. Smith]

What was it like for you being the guy that you were? I mean. I mean, you know, when they think about you, they think about the hitman. There was lights out, but you think about hitman boxing terms for Tommy Hearns, knocking folks out and stuff like that, that's how people viewed you on the National Football League playing field. And when it was time for you to walk away, what was that like for you? How hard was it for you to come to that decision?

[Sean Merriman]

You know, it was. It was crazy because after my fourth year, I started having a bunch of injuries. I had Achilles. I was tearing my calf left and right. I was pulling stuff. A lot compensation was going on, so I never really got that back. And so it was hard for me, not even physically to play, but just mentally, because I was never the player that I once was. I couldn't explode off the line of Scrippage and do those things. Actually, the Bills didn't ask me to come back.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right.

[Sean Merriman]

You know, after my, you know, after my last year and I just decided to hang it up, man. And 2012, 2012, I already knew what I wanted to do. I wanted to be in the fight business. I wanted to be more in the entertainment business and start working with the wwe, you know, doing a lot of that stuff, man. So it was. Was the process for me was easier to make that transition the most.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And why do you think it was easier for you. Was it something you. Did you have a mentor in the National Football League? Was it something that you and your contemporaries talked about amongst yourselves, or was it just an epiphany that you had on your own?

[Sean Merriman]

It was both. Lavar Arrington and Ray Lewis was two guys that took me under their wing. One in high school. Lavar took me under his wing in high school, my sophomore year. Then when guy got in college, Ray Lewis younger brother Keon Lattimore came. He was a running back, University of Maryland. So he kind of. I got close to him, him. So I was already prepared, man, to, to move on. But also. What? What? Lights out, man. The trademarks. I got trademarks for lights out in. In four different countries.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Wow.

[Sean Merriman]

You know, in 2000, between 2005 and 2006, before trademarks was even a thing. So I knew I wanted to do something. I just didn't know what I wanted to do yet. But I wanted to own my name. I wanted to own my name and rights because I was called Light Sauce. My sophomore in high school at Frederick Douglass High School in PG County, Maryland, where I went to school. So I just knew what I. I wanted to do something one lifetime. I just didn't know. Exactly.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And I'm interested in knowing this because when you talk about trademarking it and what have you, being an NFL player, sometimes, you know, football teaches according to what they tell us, right? Football teaches you to be just very narrow minded and focused about the game of football. This is all you have time for. This is all they want you doing or whatever. But I look at NFL players, unlike basketball players, unlike baseball players, where you see who they are and what have you when you wearing those helmets, those shoulder pads, et cetera, et cetera, it's more difficult to get marketed. And the NFL certainly ain't trying to assist you in marketing yourself. They're about marketing that shield. So being an NFL player, do you believe that elevated your business savvy and made you think along those lines more so than somebody that wouldn't be in the NFL? Yeah.

[Sean Merriman]

Because, you know, I'll say this NFL, they're a big business and how they operate and, and when you talk about brand and trademarks, there's nobody bigger than NFL when it comes to branding. Right. We always hear protect the shield. That shield comes up, that logo on your helmet, they protect the hell out of it at all times. And so instead of complaining about the bad side of the NFL and the business side, if you really sat back and learned how they operated and how they. When those videos come on and they say, you know, you can't use his copyrighted video, so you start learning all these things from the NFL. And I took that, that on and doing exactly what I'm doing now.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And when you think about that, you're basically saying that that helped you business wise because you saw how they operate and you just tried to emulate it. How receptive is the NFL towards helping players present? Yeah, former. How receptive are they to helping players elevate their business savvy and become entrepreneurs?

[Sean Merriman]

I think they've done a good job, but they can definitely do better, to be honest.

[Stephen A. Smith]

What could they do more?

[Sean Merriman]

You know, know, you sometimes you got people in place that don't know they want to help, but they don't know exactly how to help. Right? And so, you know me, I built a media business, a streaming business, I built a MMA league and all this stuff. So I never really called on the NFL to help with any of that stuff. But we got enough legs under us now. We have enough visibility, enough distribution where now I can go to the NFL and it's something I can offer them as well. I don't think the NFL would ever reach out to guys and say, hey, let me help you.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right?

[Sean Merriman]

But I think if you build something sustainable, something that's worth something, and then you go to the NFL, then you'll get their help. The problem is you got some people, and I say some because, you know, they got people in place that don't know how to help. They want to, but they don't know how to. So you gotta, you gotta build something that you can go to them that's also worth, worth them helping.

[Stephen A. Smith]

We're talking to the one and only Sean Marman, Mr. Lights Out Himself. Started the San Diego charges years ago. This before they went to, ladies and gentlemen, and he's sitting right next to me right now. Lights out. You received that name as a high school player after knocking out four kids, Knocking four kids unconscious in high school. I mean, damn, man, this high school, you knocking kids out. I mean, you proud of that? You like that?

[Sean Merriman]

Look, look, it was a different time. It was a different time.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay?

[Sean Merriman]

You know me because we were, back when I played, we were applauded for doing that. We didn't know a lot about the, the head concussions and the repercussions of, of playing that way. And I got a, you know, I got a son. But, you know, for me, it was the only way that I knew how to play. And so that style Would never change. It's People joke with me all the time, and they ask me, could I play now? And I was like, I don't think I would be able to play because I would have to think too much about what I need to do to get that person on the ground, where to hit them. How late can I hit him?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Where was your favorite spot to hit him? Did you want to knock them upside their damn heads? Did you want to cave in there? You want to knock him in the head? Why would you want to do that, Sean? I mean, when you got all of this, you can take care. Why would you do that?

[Sean Merriman]

I think, I think that this is the great thing about the game of football, right? And a lot of us got into it because of our upbringing, where we came from. So we actually was, it was a, it was an outlet for a lot of us to get out the circumstance we where we were, and we know we what we had to do in order to get out of that situation. And if that's a knock your damn head off, we were going to do it. And so when you're taught that way, it's really hard to convert and start thinking of the game differently. And so I played like that all the way through. Like now, I mean, man, I'll be paying, I'll be playing for free. You know, I really would, I'd be playing for free.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Because me, you get fined all the.

[Sean Merriman]

Time, I'll get fined all the time. And so me, I would just go out there and play as hard as I could for 60 minutes. I got to get you on the ground by any means necessary, right? So I just, I couldn't really. It would take the love and the passion, not the game, for me to have to convert the way that they play now.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Are you one of those guys that sit back right now? You look at defensive players in the National Football League, you feel sorry for them. I mean, Ray Lewis is my brother. That brother complains more than anybody I know about how defenses have been compromised in the NFL. Ray Lewis is always like, we're men. We're men. Why the hell do we have to deal with. I'm like, yo, Ray, bro, you got a cat dropping back to pass. It ain't like he's in front of your face throwing up his hands. No, he trying to throw a pass and you trying to knock him silly. But he's like, no, this is football. Defenses have been compromised. It's not fair to us. Are you one of those guys? Guys?

[Sean Merriman]

I, I, I am, to a point. And by the way, Ray would talk like that. We talk the night before every game, right. In the league. We, we would, we would Talk for about 45 minutes or hour, really.

[Stephen A. Smith]

He was on Baltimore, you was on another team, and y'all was still talking. Wow.

[Sean Merriman]

I would ask him, you know, he, I would ask him what he, what, what did he see on film, what he's planning on doing. He would tell me what he's doing, and I would tell him. And Ray would just have you get ready to run through a damn wall. That's just. I had to get off the phone with him sometimes say, look, bro, like, I gotta go to sleep. You know, me. Because he had you run through the wall. And so the mentality is the same, but I don't necessarily go with the notion that these guys are soft now. And I'll tell you why. Because, okay, they have to play within the rules, right? So the rules are dictating how these guys go out there and play. So I can't really call them soft. If you're gonna go out and, and get fined 30, $40,000 for a hit, can I really fault the guy for coming in a little bit more timid than he would be before? So I can't call these guys saw, but I do definitely have that, that same mentality still.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Do you think it endangers National Football League defensive players having to be so cautious, having to think so much, basically provoking hesitancy that could possibly get them hurt in some of their eyes? Do you think that's the case?

[Sean Merriman]

Yeah, no doubt. No doubt about it. I think also on, on that I think you're in danger the sport. I think you're in danger of the sport because people don't want to admit it. You just asked me where I like to hit a guy right here. I want you, you know, I want to knock you. I want to knock you out or at least inflict some kind of pain to let you know I was there.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But you do understand that you could touch somebody anywhere and inflict pain. You do know that about yourself? I mean, I mean, it ain't like you can't do it, Sean.

[Sean Merriman]

Yeah, I just. Look, I, I.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You don't need to hit him upside the head.

[Sean Merriman]

I just have a different mentality when I go out there and play. And I know that's the, that's the quickest way to get you how I want you, which is on the ground, right? You ain't, you ain't getting enough from that one. But I do feel that if you Start implementing too many rules.

[Stephen A. Smith]

The.

[Sean Merriman]

The fan base and the people. Right? I. I was one of the ones. I wore Dion's. I was doing Dion dance in the, in the backyard when I was growing up. I had the headband around my neck, right. You know, so I was doing Merton. Like all these guys that played back then, I was emulating them because Ronnie lot. I mean, I was emulating these guys because they brought passion and love to the game. And so it's hard to look at now these guys that can't play anymore and say, I would just lose the love and passion if I had to keep playing this way.

[Stephen A. Smith]

When we get back to the NFL, like you said, you can't blame the players. Do you blame the NFL considering the fact that their argument is we want the stars to stay in the game? That's who people are coming to see. We don't want them knocked out and can't be able to play. This is for the financial feasibility and benefit of the sport. The NFL makes that argument. To that you say what?

[Sean Merriman]

They're right. They're right to do that. And for one, all these rules didn't start until Tom Brady had his injury in 2008.

[Stephen A. Smith]

2008. First play, first game of the season.

[Sean Merriman]

First game of the season. When that happened, he got hit low.

[Stephen A. Smith]

He did, right?

[Sean Merriman]

He did. And so that, that's what started it. Then it became, you can't hit high, right? Too high. You can't hit this. I got fined one time for crawling and, and you know, to a quarterback's knees and grabbing them down without standing back up. I got fined for that. Right. So I think that from that point on, they started to, you know, implement these, these rules also, too. They got sued like hell from the concussion lawsuits and things like that. So it's like if you're them, and maybe they would never say it publicly, but if you're them and you're a business, they're suing you left and right, you're going to say, okay, well, I'm going to change these rules because we're. At least. At least we can go and say we tried to make the game safer. And so they did that. But also too, I think it's gone a little bit too far.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Far. It's gone a little bit too far. But with that being said, do you believe the NFL is in a good place right now?

[Sean Merriman]

Yeah.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Even though it's going too far?

[Sean Merriman]

I do. And the problem. The problem is football is a violent sport, and it's ne. That part of it never Going to change. That's why we love, that's why football is the most watched sport in this country because we all love the violence of it, whether people want to say it or not. You love guys like going out there head hunting, trying to knock your ass out. Because I played the game a certain.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You watch a boxing match, you don't want to see no damn decision. You want to see a K, you.

[Sean Merriman]

Want to see knocked out.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right?

[Sean Merriman]

Yeah. And so I think that, that part of the game is still there. But I, I think that for the youth, right. You starting to see them doing a lot which is, which is smartest. This is why the NFL is smart. You know, people can say a lot of things about them, but they're smart because they. Flag football starting to become more important.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's right. It's. It's more popular than anything right now, 100%.

[Sean Merriman]

And, and I. It'll never get to the level of the NFL as far as popularity because people, not everybody, not going to watch it. But the more common person can play flag football and they can't make the NFL. And as long as a common person, a person walking on the street can go be a superstar, catching that damn ball with a flag on the side, it's going to remain popular.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You talked about how smart the NFL is. Let's talk about how smart you are because you started something. Lights out Sports tv. Talk to me about its origin. I understand where lights out come from, obviously, but starting sports tv, talk to me about that when that started and what was the brainchild behind that?

[Sean Merriman]

Yeah, so I, you know, obviously when I retired, I got into the business, I was at, you know, NFL Network couple years. When I first started, I was at Fox Sports for a bit. I was at ESPN where they cancel that damn show Sports Nation. When I, I was, man, I was pissed. I thought sports, I thought Sports Nation was a great show.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right.

[Sean Merriman]

Yeah. I was at the launch of the WWE Network. And so being around just tv, understanding the way TV works, the people behind the cameras, what they do, and also understanding whether what is business of streaming going and having all these, you know, I was with, I worked in, I had a. Jesse at Woojeez is one of two black drivers in nascar.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay.

[Sean Merriman]

You know, I owned his team on the can insert.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Wow. Okay.

[Sean Merriman]

You know, all the way up until he went to the truck series, then Infinity, then they got way too damn.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I was getting ready to say, where the hell you get this money from, man? The NFL wasn't paying that much. Yeah, you get this money no, you.

[Sean Merriman]

Got to make more after.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's what I'm saying. I'm just saying you got the money. I mean, we got to talk about that. I don't hear about this stuff. Well, go ahead.

[Sean Merriman]

Yeah, yeah. So, you know, having, having your hands and experience. I sold sponsorship in NASCAR that I got. Jesse, you know, he had a great story. But Nate, you know, black dude, man, was in the navy, played football in the Navy from Nigeria. His parents, he had a great story and a great dude. And I wanted to come in and help him because there wasn't a lot of, you know, black people in nascar. I was like, man, this is a great story. And I wanted to come and help, which we did. We got embraced a full season. So having the back end of all this stuff and understanding these different sports and industry, I wanted to create a streaming service that had all of it right, aggregated into one, one form. And it's free, completely free, free ad support it. We're on every major smart TV, every iOS, Android, every CTV, CTV device. You can get us anywhere. And so for me, I just wanted to aggregate all these sports. Fishing, hunting, poker, chess, wrestling. We got TNA wrestling on there. What? I just did a pay per view for them a couple, you know, some, some. Some months ago, 300 sports movies and documentaries, 17 different live sports. And so, and I just finished up having the East West Shrine be practices. Matter of fact, you know, ESPN had a live look into our practices through Lights Out Sports tv. And so when you understand the landscape of where this business is going and also have the knowledge, outreach and, you know, some money to be able to do it, I feel like we're going to be the great aggregator of sports content.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And when did this start?

[Sean Merriman]

A little. Eight months. Eight months ago.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Eight months ago. Because the world is streaming, obviously, that's the future. We all know that. Linear television, I always tell people linear content is not dying, but linear television is meaning the content people love, they never get tired of. But how they watch it, they'd rather watch it on their tablets, their smartphones, et cetera, et cetera, as opposed to actual television. And that's what people have to watch out for. And you're saying this has been incredibly beneficial for you, but you also got lights out extreme fighting as well. I mean, that should fall on the sports tv. What's. Why is it separate?

[Sean Merriman]

Yeah, so we, we were, you know, we still work with. Great part. I still work with Fubo, Fubo, carry a lot of our content being sports, you know, Pluto and all these, you Know, msg, we still got great partners. And then we working something now with ufc, UFC Fight Pass. We, we got great partners. But I wanted the live content to remain with Lights Out Sports tv.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right.

[Sean Merriman]

And you know, what we're starting to do is now work with everybody and see if we can simulcast. You know, we simulcast at the East West Shrine bowl with NFL Network and espn. Right. And so my, my thing is I really believe we have the opportunity to lead this space to being the great aggregate. Right. We're not trying to, we're not trying to compete. We're trying to create things that's not there. I launched a 60 minute live tailgating show in the NFL with the Chargers and Buffalo.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I've always talked about tailgating shows. I think there should be more of that. You know, I've actually proposed with espn. Let me do first take from the parking lot Dallas Cowboy at and T Stadium. Let me be there with the Cowboy fans in north and discuss it, discuss themselves. Let me be right there in the parking lot with them for the tailgate party. They might take me up on it.

[Sean Merriman]

Yeah, and they should because tailgating is, I'm not going to say it's ever going to be bigger than the game, but that's where the families and the friends and that's when you get that fomo. Like, man, I should have went to the game. Right? We were the first ones to live stream, full live stream, a tailgate for the Chargers and the Buffalo Bills. No one has ever done that. And we looking to get more teams, working with more teams. We're talking to, you know, 16 different teams right now to kind of expand and have a simulcast of all these tailgates. Again, we're not trying to compete, we're trying to create and you know, I love being an opportunity to work with NFL Network, espn, to have, just to see them on our message boards, looking at our practices through Lights Out Sports meant a lot because I kind of had a head start in this business and we feel like we can be the great aggregators in this business.

[Stephen A. Smith]

What about partnering with the NFL on stuff like this? You are a former player. Why wouldn't they be receptive to this?

[Sean Merriman]

I think they will. We, you know, like you said, it could be, you know, it could be better. Right. But again, you have to have something sustainable where the NFL is going to say this is worth us because you can't go to them trying to throw some ideas. You got to already be doing it right. And that was always my thing. We, we, we already have this Stuff going. We already have the tailgates, these exclusive rights to all Star Games, and I'm looking to work with the NFL more. It's just that, you know, they're a big company, so trying to get them to move in that direction. And also the reason why I launched Light side Sports TV is because I can now move at the pace that we need to move, and hopefully that the NFL, we get an opportunity to work with them.

[Stephen A. Smith]

What about partnering with somebody like the UFC with your extreme fighting?

[Sean Merriman]

I'm good friends with Dana. You know, we. We talk all the time, and, you know, I'll go see him or talk or. Or, you know, text a lot or whatever. The. I think the UFC is so big, they don't need to partner with anybody. It's the same thing with NFL. USFL will always send. Send guys, players to the NFL. That is their business model. Our business model was to send as many fighters to the UFC as possible. Now we have a lot of tech. We got chips and gloves. I partner with shot tracker, okay. That has a chip in NBA basketball and, you know, things like that. We work with a lot of big leagues, so we now can measure speed, power, punch, g, force of punches, and have it live, live up on the screen. So that should. We should be ready to go live with that sometime in June.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's technology that you could add to the mix. There could 100 accentuate some of the stuff that UFC is bringing to the table or whatever. Has Dana tried to get you an octagon, try to get you to fight? Because you look like you could beat some people up.

[Sean Merriman]

So we. I did talk to him about it one time. We were talking about Greg Hardy.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I was getting ready to bring that name up. I was getting ready to say, you sure you want to do that?

[Sean Merriman]

Yeah, sure.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Wouldn't do that.

[Sean Merriman]

I mean, I wouldn't. I wouldn't do that to him now because he's been, you know, like, it was a point in time when I was training. The only. The only reason why I never took a fight is everything else I'm doing right, because being a former athlete, I respect these guys enough. I still spar. Don't get me wrong. I'll still go to Top Rank. They'll tell you in Top Rank in Vegas. They'll tell you, I'll jump in an extreme couture in Vegas.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Wow.

[Sean Merriman]

They'll tell you, I'll go and I'll put, you know, I'll jump in there and spar. Anybody, I don't care. Still to this day, as in two weeks ago.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I believe you, I believe you.

[Sean Merriman]

But you know, for me, I have enough respect for the sport because we seen the guys getting there who thought they can do it. That's right, Right. And just didn't do it. These, you got these. These fighters are. They're risking their life, they're putting their life on the line and they're training one, two times, sometime three times a day, seven days a week.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right.

[Sean Merriman]

They're trying to fight so they can feed their family. So that's a different mentality when you get in that cage. So I don't have that mentality no more. Right. But if there was a former NFL player, a former WWE guy that wanted to go fighting, lights out, extreme fighting, I'll look at that. I'll take. I would, I would.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And you'll fight yourself.

[Sean Merriman]

And I'll fight myself. Yeah, for sure.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Because you don't still, you still. You said, I got that itch to hurt people. Ain't that what this is about?

[Sean Merriman]

It's there, you know, it never really. Look, it never really fully goes away. But I also know that the time commitment it takes to do that, not like I said, I spar with the guys because I'm strong, you know, I'm big enough, strong enough, athletic enough to go in there and train with them, but I have enough respect not to jump in the sport and start calling guys out. Like, I'm not with this new age of social media. Media.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right.

[Sean Merriman]

I have sent five contracts to five former NFL guys, like, let's do it. Who said that they would fight, who just didn't respond. I have sent them to three former WWE guys right. Behind the scenes.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Ain't gonna tell me no names, though. Names.

[Sean Merriman]

Look, I mean, look, you know, me and Bobby Lashley was talking about fighting just, you know, about a year or two ago, I would still think about doing it, you know, if he wanted to do it. But there are like three or four former NFL guys. I talked to Greg Hardy about it one time. I think he went on a 4 or 5 knockout street when he was getting knocked out. That's it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

He just got knocked out recently in Russia. It's. It's a bit over for him.

[Sean Merriman]

Yeah. So I said, I can't.

[Ed McCaffrey]

I.

[Sean Merriman]

First of all, I hate to see anybody's past, like, stop, man. I don't want to see anybody get hurt in that way. But if, if the right opportunity to fight anybody in light side extreme fighting, I would do it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Before I get into the Super Bowl, I want to ask you about you personally, you went through a lot in your NFL career. You're here now. You're doing great things as you reflect on your career. Career.

[Sean Merriman]

Yeah.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Any regrets?

[Sean Merriman]

One being probably I would, I would have not pushed through the injuries I had, you know, because I think that a lot of us want to be that warrior, right, and go out there and fight through it and lay it out in the line. But they're, they're grading you, right? They're grading you're putting your body through hell. And it probably cut my career a lot shorter than I wanted to be because I was out there playing on, on one leg for a lot, the second half of my career. Career.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right.

[Sean Merriman]

So that probably is the biggest one other than that standard, being young, being, you know, being around stuff you shouldn't, you know, stand. I think the people fail to realize that, you know, when you're. I was drafted at 20, right. And a lot of these guys are young and I'm not saying nobody should get a pass for nothing.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right.

[Sean Merriman]

But also it's a lot different when you're trying to learn to be a, a man or a woman or whatever and the camera's in your face all the time. So when you make those mistakes, it is amplified qualified. Right. And so you're judged based on a 21 to 22 year old, 20, 23 year old. So I think that between that. But mostly, mostly is the injury stuff.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I would say let's go to the super bowl now. Super Bowl 59. Kansas City Chiefs playing against the Philadelphia Eagles. A rematch from a couple of years ago when Kansas City beat him like 38, 35. When you think about this Super Bowl, Patrick Mahomes has an opportunity to three Pete. He does that, he's going to be considered the goat in some people's eyes, maybe not everybody, because there is Tom Brady to talk about here. You look at the Philadelphia Eagles. They clearly appear to be the better team. They just don't have Patrick Mahomes. How do you handicap this game for us?

[Sean Merriman]

I, you know, first and foremost, I, I can't see the Chiefs losing. And this is nothing against Philly. I just think that during the season for the Chiefs, there's about four or five games. You watch them play and you look at the stat sheet and nothing changed. Jumps off. They didn't run the ball well, they didn't pass the ball well, they didn't play defense.

[Stephen A. Smith]

They found a way to get it.

[Sean Merriman]

Done and they, you look at the scoreboard and they're won by 10 points. You're like how everybody else is losing. So what Philly has to do to win this game, they got to play mistake free. I mean, no mistakes. Because you know that she's going to go down and capitalize on off of it. I. I hate to say it, but you got to dress, address the elephant in the room. And that's them refs.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's right.

[Sean Merriman]

Happy to be wearing stripes the first time you've seen the elephant.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So you one of those. You one of those. You believe that the refs kind of favor the Kansas City Chiefs?

[Sean Merriman]

I. I believe that they don't enforce the same things that they do on other teams.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay.

[Sean Merriman]

There was. I, I counted like 20 off false starts during the season with that. Right. The left tackle off the line of scrimmage, kicking back. And it was not called once. Right. And I. As a player, you're always taught to take the refs out of the game. You never want to come after the game and say we lost or won that game because of the. I think it got. It's gotten so blatant. It's gotten so blatant where people who normally don't complain are. We saw Troy Aan. Troy. Troy. I've been watching for Troy for 20 years.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right.

[Sean Merriman]

I can probably count on one one hand how many times he's criticized referees.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes. He almost never does. And he did it at least two occasions.

[Sean Merriman]

Right. And so when, when it gets to that point, it's hard to turn the other cheek. The other side is these guys know how to win football games. And I'm speaking from experience because the times that the Patriots were winning, even the times they kicked us out of the playoffs, I felt like we were the better team. But they knew how to win when the time was on, you know, when the time was there. And also these guys just season vest at this point. So you got. There's too many factors that to beat the Chiefs, why I can't go against them.

[Stephen A. Smith]

My only pushback to you on that notion would be we said the same thing about, about the Patriots, not once, but twice against the New York Giants with Tom Coughlin coaching them, Michael Strahan and those boys there, JPP and others, they got to the quarterback. We know the one Super Bowl Patrick Mahomes losses because he was on suicide watch, because the offensive line wasn't protecting him at all and he was running for his life half the damn time we saw something like that. I'm thinking if you're the Philadelphia Eagles, you, You can be that giants team of 2007. And 2011, it'll take that. Yeah, but that's what you could do.

[Sean Merriman]

And they got the recipe. They got Jaylen Carter, they got Nolan, they got guys who can pass rush up front, and they got Saquan. Saquan will. Will. If. If Patrick Mahomes doesn't win mvp, Saquan will beat mvp. He's the only one that can run the ball enough, chew up enough time with Patrick Mahomes, can't get on the field. That is, to me, that is the only way that they can win. If they run the ball enough where they control the clock, it's going to open it up for AJ Brown and some of these other guys to. To. To get open and make some, you know, catches and keep that. Keep the clock going, keep those yard sticks moving. That is the only way. Because if Saquan doesn't rush for 100, I don't see these guys winning because there's too many factors going into the chief's favor.

[Stephen A. Smith]

If Patrick Mahomes were to win this Super bowl in 3P. He's the greatest quarterback who ever lived.

[Sean Merriman]

No, but he's in a conversation you. You got. And so anybody that want to push back on him being in that conversation, you got to look at the pace. It's all about the pace right now. What he's going. You know for sure. What, he's what, 28, something like that?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sean Merriman]

You know for sure that he's going to get him another one or two before he's done. If he wins Sunday, Right. He's going to get another one or two. So that would automatically put him up there in that go category, because no one's done it as fast as he has.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm thinking, listen, if he does that, you can have that conversation. Because as much as I love Tom Brady, he went 10 years after winning three and four years. He went 10 years without a Super bowl title. So, I mean, we're talking about Patrick Mahomes. It's not his fault he was born younger. I mean, later, in seven years, the man has been at seven AFC championship games. He's won seven division titles. He's been to five Super Bowls.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Right.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's how I'm looking at it. And he'll have four championships. So I'm like, if he pulls that off, we got to look at him differently. But I say all of that to say, when you look at Patrick Mahomes before I let you get on out of here, and I really appreciate your time, bro. When I look at him, I also look at Jaylen Hurts. And I'm saying, okay, Jalen Hurts pulls this off if he plays lights out. You know, we've been talking about Lamar Jackson. We've been talking about Joe Burrow, we've been talking about Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, all these boys. What are we going to say about Jalen Hurts if he pulls this off? If he plays lights out?

[Sean Merriman]

Yeah, if he, if, if they pull it off and it's. It's because of him, right? Say that they find some magical way to just shut down Saquon and Jalen Hurts is out there just throwing darts left and right. He's RPO action. He's taking the ball 50 team. If it's on him, I think he won't be mentioned up there with the great. But he. He would. He would catapult himself up into those top. Definitely the top five. But then you. You got to start looking at who you want to move around. Do you want to move Josh Allen back and put Jalen up? You want to put Lamar back?

[Stephen A. Smith]

No.

[Sean Merriman]

Right. And so that, that is the, the conversation that's going to end up happening is that who do you move out of that top five? And then you move James. I mean, some people may have him in the top five five, right? I don't.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I don't either.

[Sean Merriman]

I don't, but I, I think that who do you move out of that top five? Is Jaylen Hurst. Go out and win this thing.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Last question. With Patrick Mahomes being as dominant as he is, we've seen the greatness of Josh Allen. We've seen the greatness of Lamar Jackson. Joe Burrow actually beat him in an AFC championship game before losing in the super bowl to the Rams. I'm wondering, particularly with Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen, how are we to look at. At them, especially Lamar Jackson, who's probably going to get a third league mvp. How are we to look at them if there's one dude within their conference who's consistently standing in their way and saying, no, those individual awards are all you getting because you ain't getting the super bowl championship.

[Sean Merriman]

As long as I'm standing there, I is one. You talk about these regrets and being not being a champion, not one of the ring. Those teams we had with LT and Philip Rivers, Antonio Gates, like Renzo.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Lt, as in Ladanian Tomlinson, not Lawrence.

[Sean Merriman]

Taylor ladies, Ladanian Tomlinson and all the. All these guys that we had, hall of Fame guys that we had on the team, we had to go through Ben Roethlisberger once we got past him we had to see Peyton Manning and then we got to the final boss in Tom Brady. Right. And so that's the path that's going to happen now when the Chiefs keep winning, they're going to have to go through Joe Burrow, Josh Allen, now Herbert, depending on how he, how he comes back and look next year. That path to getting there to that, to that championship game is going to be rough from now on because of, because of that core group that's going to be around for the next decade.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But again, how do you look at them if they can't get past Patrick Mahomes?

[Sean Merriman]

The same way I look. People look at Dan Marino the same way as people look at, you know, John Elway until he got his. The same way until a lot of these guys, I mean, Aaron Rodgers won his in what year?

[Stephen A. Smith]

2010.

[Sean Merriman]

2010.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Ain't been back since.

[Sean Merriman]

Ain't been back.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right.

[Sean Merriman]

Okay. So that you put. You start looking at these guys because thank. Thanks to Tom Brady, we only look at championships now. It don't care how good you are during the season. And we're gonna. They're gonna go in that same category as guys I just mentioned last question.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Is that great, do you like that about your sport? Because in the sport of basketball, there's plenty of cats that get a whole bunch of shine and ain't win.

[Sean Merriman]

Yeah.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You understand? Whereas in the NFL, they keep talking to you about winning that chip. How do you. Which would you prefer?

[Sean Merriman]

I don't like it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You don't like which.

[Sean Merriman]

I don't like that the, that the championships are the only main factor and, and somebody plays greatness. Right. There was a quote, there was somebody that compared the other day on the Eli Manning trade and Philip, when Eli Manning didn't want to go to San Diego, they said, who won that trade? So in that, in that trade, what happened was they got Philip Rivers me y. They get like three or four. They got three or four guys. They got Eli Manning and they say that the Giants won. The Giants won that trade. Two super bowl because he got two Super Bowls. But if you put us together with Pro Bowls and stats, individual wise, the charges won.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right?

[Sean Merriman]

Right. So I, I don't like that because football is such a team sport. That wide receiver, that tackle, that guard has to be doing his job every single play in order for that pass to happen or that run to happen. And so that is one part of the game that I just don't like. Again, you can blame Tom Brady for that because now we're just measuring guys off championships, but it's too much of a team game to do that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Last question. Question. It's final score, Kansas City, Philadelphia Eagles. Sean Merriman, give it to us.

[Sean Merriman]

I'm going 28, 24 chiefs. I'm going 28, 24 Chiefs. And I think most people in this country is rooting for Philly. You know, I, all my, my friends, my folks, they all, they all want Philly to win. I just being, you know, kind of having to be honest about what I know about the game. It's just hard to go against these guys. I. You, you can't. I've done it m. Several times now, the last two Super Bowls when, when Patrick Mahomes walked in on that bum foot, he had a high angle sprain or something a couple years ago and he iced the game, running 15 yard for first down.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's right.

[Sean Merriman]

You can't go against people that go, you know, teams that go out and do that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

My man. Proud of you, baby. Appreciate you doing your thing, man. The one and only Sean Marman right here with Stephen A. Don't miss the Stephen A. Smith show this week from New Orleans as we're broadcasting all week ahead. Ahead of Super Bowl 59. We've got an all star guest list that's still ahead, including Drew Brees, Donovan McNabb, Jameis Winston, and Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro. We'll break down the games and talk some politics ahead of Super Bowl 59 between the Eagles and the Chiefs. And by the way, tell us who you think will win the game on our poll on my Twitter page at Stephen A. Smith. I told y'all before I was gonna say goodbye, but as I said before, because of the momentum of what's being discussed about me as a presidential candidate, I thought it was apropos. As opposed to saying peace and love, I wanted to say God bless you and God bless the United States of America. See y'all later, meaning tomorrow. Until then, I'm out. Y'all take care.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

What's up, everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal, and I'm teaming up with the King of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah.

[Stephen A. Smith]

He requires me to say that we're.

[Christopher Mad Dog Russo]

Going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs mock drafts to my top 101, free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday. Keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents starting on March 6th on the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Stephen A. Smith]

What's up, everyone? Julie Swearbinks here along with former NHL player Nate Thompson.

[Sean Merriman]

We're doing a new podcast together. Here we go.

[Stephen A. Smith]

The name Energy Line with Nate and jsb.

[Sean Merriman]

Each week we'll get together and talk about hockey life. All topics are fair game, right?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Exactly. And you'll never know who will drop by to join us.

[Sean Merriman]

Julie is pretty well connected. She has text threads going that you wouldn't believe.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Listen to Energy Line with Nate and JSB on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.