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The Stephen A. Smith Show
Full Show: Candace Owens’ criticisms of Israel and U.S. foreign policy are rebutted by Jonathan Greenblatt of the ADL.
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Ryan Seacrest
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Stephen A. Smith
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Ryan Seacrest
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Jonathan Greenblatt
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Stephen A. Smith
VGW Group Void where prohibited by law 21 plus terms and conditions apply. If you remember, Candace Owen went off went off about the Israeli Iran conflict and specifically Benjamin Netanyahu and the Jewish community. In her own eloquent way, of course, she had her say. The Anti Defamation League has theirs. Wait till you hear what it has to say. What he has to say. As in the CEO of the Anti Defamation League. Sit down with yours truly. Coming up next, Stephen A. Smith show in the house. What's up everybody? Welcome to the latest edition of the Stephen A. Smith Show. Coming at you as I love to do at the very least three times a week over the digital areas of YouTube and of course, iHeartRadio. As always, I'd like to take a moment to thank my subscribers and followers for supporting the show. Millions of downloads over iheartradio over the last few months and a subscriber base that has now eclipsed 1.25 million over the digital airwaves of YouTube. Can't thank y' all for the love and support enough. Keep it coming and I'm gonna keep on coming to keep on liking and following the show. Just click the bell to get notified for all of our newest content and you too shall consider yourself the latest member of the Stephen A. Smith show family. And while you're doing that, make sure to pause for a second and pick up a copy of my New York Times Best Selling book Straight Shooter, a Memoir of Second Chances and First Takes, now in paperback. Just go to straightshooterbook.com to get yourself a copy. Once again, that's straightshooterbook.com to get yourself a copy. Obviously, the Israeli Iran conflict there's taken fold and it's a very, very big deal in this world and we'll be getting into all of that, especially when I talk to Jonathan Greenblatt, the CEO of the Anti Defamation League, in just a second. But before we even get to that, I've got to get to the latest news because we've got to get there some news about the ongoing war between Israel and Iran. Yesterday, President Donald Trump showed visible anger as the ceasefire he brokered between the two countries appeared to grow more fragile. Take a listen to what President Trump had to say yesterday when asked by reporters about the situation with Israel in Iran. Take a look. Israel, as soon as we made the deal, they came out and they dropped a load of bombs, the likes of which I've never seen before. The biggest load that we've seen. I'm not happy with Israel. You know, when I say, okay, now you have 12 hours, you don't go out in the first hour and just drop everything you have on them. So I'm not happy with them. I'm not happy with Iran either. But I'm really unhappy if Israel is going out this morning because the one rocket that didn't land, that was shot, perhaps by mistake, that didn't land, I'm not happy about that. You know what? We basically have two countries that have been fighting so long and so hard that they don't know what the fuck they're doing. Do you understand that? Wow. Most of the Ireland was actually directed towards Israel, which he said unloaded on Iran as soon as the White House made a deal. Hours later, President Trump took credit for brokering peace between Israel and Iran, framing the recent ceasefire as a direct result of the US Airstrikes on Iran's nuclear sites. Here's what he wrote on Truth Social. Quote, both Israel and Iran wanted to stop the war equally. It was my great honor to destroy all nuclear facilities and capability and, and then stop the war, end quote. That's what he wrote. Listen, Israel needs to be careful because you have a lot of people on the left, of course, some members of the extreme right who are nationalists, the Steve Bannon's, the Tucker Carlson's of the world, the Marjorie Taylor Greene's of the world, and others, they're nationalists. They don't want Our country involved in warfare. They want us to prioritize our own interests instead of that of Israel or any other nation for that matter. Then you have those on the left that are of the mindset that Barack Obama would not have done this. He would have found a more diplomatic solution to engage with. Joe Biden would not have done it. Even George W. Bush might not have done it, or Clinton might not have done it. They'll bring up stuff like that as an example. Either way you slice it, if Trump is speaking out against Israel in any way after doing what he did in terms of using our air force and our navy to bomb nuclear sites in Iran that he believed was facilitating developing a nuclear weapon, if he's calling out Israel, he's essentially accusing them of being too aggressive. And if you're accusing them of being too aggressive with Iran, how long will it be before folks start regurgitating the same cries about how they're too excessive in Gaza with the Palestinians? That's what we have to be careful of. If you're Israel, you have to be careful about that. Because with Netanyahu, who is considered by some to be a war hawk, looking for any excuse under the sun to attack any sworn enemy, in his eyes, the support that you've garnered from folks around the world, but specifically and especially America, if that's diluted in any way, you don't know what that can materialize into for Israel, for members of the Jewish community, that's what he has to take into consideration. That's just a point to bring up today in light of what you just saw the 47th president of the United States echo. That's just a nugget leading towards a bigger conversation. And that bigger conversation is involving antisemitism, its root, its cause, its impact. It's a point that can't be ignored. But in the end, it leads to a bigger conversation, a conversation that must be had. Not just because of what's going on with Iran and Israel, not just because of what's going on in the Gaza, in the Gaza Strip and beyond, but also what's going on on college campuses and throughout the streets of America, at least in the eyes of the Jewish community. You're hearing antisemitism. You're hearing those words, you're hearing that phrase, that word a lot more these days. And there are folks in the Jewish community that says, this is real, it's worse than it has ever been. Or at least it's worse than it has been in the last several decades, to be more accurate. And then you have those who say, just because you're criticizing the Jewish community and some of the things that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has been doing and what he's done to displace Palestinians, calling some of what he has done, labeling it as murder, some have used the word genocide and other things like that. These are very incendiary words. And to get to the root of the matter, to the heart of the matter, you can't just talk to the Candace Owens of the world who was just on this show a few days ago and made her points clearly known. You also got to talk to somebody like my next guest. He is here to discuss this. He is the CEO of the Anti Defamation League. He is Mr. Jonathan Greenblatt. Back with more to Stephen A. Smith show in a minute. All right, everybody, listen up. With all the big time sports action that's happening each and every day, the Stephen A. Smith show wants to make sure you are taking advantage of it all. That's why we partnered with Prize Picks the Best Place to Win Cash While Watching Sports the app is really easy to use, you know, to create a lineup, all you have to do is pick more or less on a few player stats. You choose from any of your favorite players all in the same entry, then sit back and watch. The list is endless. You can play Prize picks in over 40 states, including California and Texas. 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- [10:13]
Ryan Seacrest
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- [10:44]
Stephen A. Smith
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Jonathan Greenblatt
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- [11:01]
Stephen A. Smith
It out for the place you've put down roots. Trust, Amica, Home Insurance, Ameca. Empathy is our best policy. Joining me now to discuss this is the CEO of the Anti Defamation League, Mr. Jonathan Greenblatt. Since becoming CEO of the ADL, Greenblatt has modernized the organization while focusing on a mission to fight the defamation of Jewish people and to secure justice and fair treatment to all. Jonathan Greenblatt in the house. What's going on, sir? Welcome back to the Stephen A. Smith Show. How you doing?
- [11:43]
Jonathan Greenblatt
Always good to see you.
- [11:45]
Stephen A. Smith
You know, there's so much to get into right now. We've seen so much being said, so much happening in the world. Your take on exactly what is transpiring between Israel and Iran at this particular moment in time?
- [11:58]
Jonathan Greenblatt
Look, in many ways, I would describe what's happening between Israel and Iran as one of those forever wars that we hear a lot about, except that this forever war was declared by the Islamic Republic of Iran 46 years ago. You know, Stephen A. 46 years ago, after the Islamic Revolution, the regime declared death to Israel, death to America. And they had been waging an overt and covert war against the Jewish people, the Jewish state of Israel and, you know, the United States of America for nearly half a century. They've committed terror acts around the world, some of which ended up murdering scores of Jewish people, a number of which I'm talking about places like Azerbaijan or they murdered people in Bulgaria, in Argentina, of course, in Israel. And they've had plots thwarted. Thailand, Azerbaijan, Kenya, India. And it goes, the list goes on. And look, the reality is they tried to assassinate President Trump. They've tried to commit incidents here in the US So I don't like war. I don't think countries should be in conflict. I want to see peace around the world. But you have a government in Iran which has been dedicated openly, explicitly to destroying the Jewish state. So something was bound to happen as they were racing toward a nuclear weapon. I'm only glad that after 12 days, hopefully we have a ceasefire and pathway to a long term peace.
- [13:37]
Stephen A. Smith
So in short, you are completely in support of, of Israel and the United States taking this position to bomb the nuclear sites of Iran, Correct?
- [13:46]
Jonathan Greenblatt
I am. I mean, look, I would rather use diplomacy. But they demonstrated time and again, Stephen A. That they weren't willing to play ball. It's not enough to say are at the table. The truth is while they were at the table, they were continuing to develop missiles, continuing to enrich uranium. And look, I'm not an expert on, you know, the half life of, you know, fissile material But I do know about anti Semitism and hate. And while they were, quote, unquote, negotiating with us, STEPHEN A. They were funding terror groups across the region. They were working to destabilize U.S. interests around the world. So I just think you got to walk the walk and talk the talk. If you're just talking the talk, but you're doing something else behind, you know, behind your back that's not in good faith. So, again, diplomacy is much preferred to conflict, but sometimes you need a little bit of conflict to make the diplomacy effective.
- [14:41]
Stephen A. Smith
What about those who would look at a guy like Benjamin Netanyahu, who obviously is the leader, the prime minister for Israel, and they can track back to 1996 where he's saying Iran is close to a nuclear weapon. 2000, same thing. 2005, same thing. 2010-2011-2015-2018, and obviously 2016 and especially 2024 leading up to the election. This is something that he's been on the record regardless of the administration saying. So I even saw Jon Stewart on the Daily Show. I don't want to say joking, even though obviously it's a comedic show, it's on Comedy Central. And he was telling jokes and had people laughing, but he was basically pointing out how we've heard this before on many occasions from Mr. Netanyahu. So how serious are we to take it? What about those who would make that argument against Netanyahu?
- [15:34]
Jonathan Greenblatt
I don't know. The fact of the matter is that developing a nuclear weapon is not like, you know, popping a thing of hot pockets in the microwave. It takes years. It takes time. And over the years, Benjamin Netanyahu and others, not just him, have been saying this was imminent. And America and Israel and the west have worked to slow it down to or outright try to stop it. They tried sanctions, didn't work. They tried cyber, didn't work. They tried the JCPOA was sort of working. And then Trump got out of it. So, look, he has been saying it, STEPHEN A. Because it takes time to get there. But what would the world look like today if the Iranians were using nuclear weapons to stop, you know, shipping trade in the streets of Hormuz? What would that be like?
- [16:21]
Stephen A. Smith
Jonathan, answer that question. Answer that question directly. In your estimation, in the estimation of the Anti Defamation League, in the estimation of the Jewish community, How would the world look if Iran had a nuclear weapon? Paint the picture for us. Paint the picture.
- [16:36]
Jonathan Greenblatt
I want to be clear. Like, I can't say I speak for the whole Jewish community, but ADL is the oldest anti hate organization in the world. We've been fighting anti Semitism, racism, extremism for more than 112 years. And here's what I can say. Iran is the largest state sponsor of anti Semitism, extremism, terror in the world. It's not just my opinion. Right. It's the facts as presented to us by the US State Department, by the CIA, by the British government and others. And so what would the world look like if the organization funding Hezbollah and Hamas and the Houthis and the others had a nuclear Damoclean sword they could wave over the head of the West? And, you know, what would it look like for the Jewish state of Israel? Look, Israel's the size of New Jersey. What would it mean if our strongest ally. What would it mean if our. If a key trading partner. What would it mean if a country with whom we share our values has a nuclear gun pointed at its head? I mean, I just gotta say we're willing to get engaged in other countries around the world where we think US Interests are compromised or challenged. This could not be a clearer case. And keep in mind one other thing, Stephen A.
- [17:42]
Stephen A. Smith
Okay.
- [17:43]
Jonathan Greenblatt
It's not just about Israel. Like, the Iranians have killed hundreds of Americans in Saudi, in Iraq, in Lebanon, in Syria. They tried to assassinate President Trump. They took American hostages again and again, they've worked against our interests. So this isn't like just a Jewish fight. Stephen A. Your audience needs to know this is an American fight because Iran has made it an American fight. Now, look, that doesn't mean it's a fight between the American people and the Iranian people. Far from it. The Iranian people are extraordinary. But the Islamic Republic of Iran, this despotic government that not only militates against America, that not only foments hate against Jews. Stephen A. They oppress gays. They oppress women, other ethnic and religious minorities. They shoot their protesters in the head or arrest them en masse. They close the Internet on and on. They repress their own people, let alone other groups around the world. That's why I think we have a problem with them.
- [18:45]
Stephen A. Smith
Your thoughts on how much of this emanates from October 7, 2023, when Hamas, Hezbollah and other proxies, obviously, of Iran attacked Israel. Paint a picture of what life has been like for the Jewish community for the state of Israel since that day.
- [19:04]
Jonathan Greenblatt
It is such a good and important question. One of the things Jewish people around the world have learned is when someone says they are going to kill, you believe them. So when Hamas said it was dedicated to the destruction of Israel, Many in the Jewish day didn't take it seriously. Many in the west didn't take it seriously. And then we saw the genocidal rampage on October 7th. Israel was unprepared for it and paid a heavy price. Still, there's 50 hostages being held in chains in dungeons, in tunnels under Gaza right now. And so when the Iran regime literally, Stephen A. In Tehran, they had a clock they erected, like a digital clock that was counting down to the destruction of Israel. The supreme leader, in his religious speeches and their political leaders and the military leaders would say things like, israel is a cancer. Israel is a tumor. The Jewish state will be destroyed. And so I think after October 7, Israel was reminded of the price that you pay from naivete or willful neglect. And so when Iran continues to not only insist that they will destroy the Jewish state, when we know they're working toward that goal by funding Hamas, by arming Hezbollah, by providing support for the Houthis, Israel felt it compelled. If they're going to before they have a nuclear weapon, let's stop that in its tracks. I'll make one other really key point here, okay? Israel is not attacking schools or mosques or hospitals or shopping malls or civilian centers. They're attacking military installations, rocket launchers, and nuclear facilities. Contrast that with what the Iranians are doing, attacking. There you go. Mosques, synagogues, schools, shopping malls. They shot up a hospital this morning in the south of Israel, murdered somewhere between four to six people. They're killing Jews, Muslims, Christians. They're killing Israelis, they're killing Arabs, they're killing Bedouin. I mean, they are indiscriminate in their missile fire against the Jewish state, while Israel is focusing very precisely on only military targets. I mean, the difference could not be more stark.
- [21:21]
Stephen A. Smith
I want to make sure that I ask this question in all fairness to the critics and the cynics out there. I don't happen to be one of them. I don't know enough. I listen to critics, but I also listen to somebody like you, who I've known for years and I'm proud to know. I will ask you this question in all sincerity, that somebody like you, one of the rare individuals, qualified to answer this. There's been a lot of criticism being aimed in the direction of Israel, specifically Netanyahu. But obviously, overall, the state of Israel, in terms of what's been happening in Gaza and in the aftermath of October 7th, people are talking about women and children being displaced, people being killed. The excessive amount of bombing that Netanyahu in Israel has rained down upon that area of the world and how essentially it's about expansion more so than anything else. This is what critics have said. We see protest at college campuses throughout the United States. We've seen mainly primarily people on the right complaining about what's been transpiring at some of these universities, which is why President Trump has received some of the support rather that he has received. We also see representatives, particularly on the extreme left, who clearly think otherwise. Your thoughts about the arguments that are being made against the state of Israel and Netanyahu in light of the displacement and the wreckage that exists in that area of the world because of the bombings?
- [22:54]
Jonathan Greenblatt
So there's so much to unpack here. And I'm just going to say right off the bat how much I appreciate you and the show because you tackle these things with an open mind, looking for the facts, just trying to understand. And we need more of that in our society today. So thank you literally for just probing, saying, hey, we understand. So a couple things. Number one, Israel is not beyond reproach. The Jewish state certainly can be criticized like any other state on the planet Earth. It's a myth to say I get accused of anti Semitism if I criticize Israel. I don't think there's a foreign policy topic more widely discussed than what's going on in the Middle East. And if you're looking for an organization that talks about what's happening in Israel and doesn't use anti Semitism to do it, go to this website, ADL.org because we criticize Israel. We've criticized the prime minister and prior prime ministers when we disagree. So there's nothing wrong with criticizing the policies, the politics, the personalities in a particular government, anywhere, America, Israel, anywhere in between. Now, secondly, what is also true is there are double standards applied to the Jewish state that don't get applied anywhere else. So, for example, you see these protests, like you were mentioning about what's happened since October 7th, okay, against Israel on college campuses. Can you tell me about any mass protests? And by the way, so estimates are the 40,000 some odd people have been killed in Gaza. Every loss, every person killed is a tragedy. Now, I will stipulate that according to the Israeli estimates, about half the people killed are Hamas fighters. Okay, so whether or not you exactly believe that somewhere in the range, and most other experts are saying much the same, look now at the Ukraine, where there have been hundreds of thousands of people killed by the Russians. No mass protests. Look at Syria, Stephen A. Where again, upwards of a million people were killed by the Assad regime. And in the Civil war that followed, no mass protests. Look at what's happened in China over the decades where they've repressed minorities. No mass protests. So why is it that only the Jewish state gets targeted this way? And remember that they, you know, there was a ceasefire in Gaza, if you will, Stephen A. On October 6th, there wasn't a single Israeli soldier nor a single Israeli civilian inside Gaza. And then, of course, what happened on the 7th. Now I want the fighting to end. I want the hostages to come home. I want Gaza to be rebuilt. That could happen like this if Hamas would simply release the hostages and state that they're willing to make peace with the Jewish state.
- [25:43]
Stephen A. Smith
But, but, Jonathan, is that really, is that, hold on, is that really, is that really, really true? When we, I'm talking about specifically Netanyahu here, when you, we know how dogged he is about eliminating Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, overall, he could, you know, when you call death to Israel, death to America, and you spew that kind of verbiage and you have proxies carrying out your deeds, your wishes, the way they have, along with the Houthis and others, Netanyahu has made it very, very clear he wants to take care of them. So is it really true that if 50 hostages didn't no longer remained in Gaza, that we wouldn't be seeing these kind of actions from Netanyahu and Israel in pursuit of Hamas? Is that really true?
- [26:32]
Jonathan Greenblatt
The truth is, is that there was no sort of kinetic action happening on October 6th. And I think, again, if Hamas, if Hamas said explicitly and openly, we'll return all the hostages we took, old people, young people, men, women, boys, girls, will return them all, and we'll lay down our arms and agree to negotiate a peace with Israel, then Prime Minister Netanyahu or any Israeli leader would have no pretext to do what they're doing. So, I mean, I appreciate the question of, like, what's the hypothetical look like, but we don't even need to think about the counterfactual because we've got the facts right here and now. They're unwilling to accept a Jewish state as their neighbor. Now, let's be clear, like UAE is Jordan, Egypt, Bahrain, it seems that Saudi Arabia will be, and many other countries, it seems that Syria, to the northeast of the country, is now willing to accept Israel. It is only Hamas, which is a client state, if you will, or a client organization of the Islamic Republic of Iran. So I don't. Look, if Israel wanted, you know, people accuse Israel of committing genocide, if that is, I mean, it's the worst executed genocide in human history. Israel has the capabilities to do much more damage than they've chosen to do. People call it ethnic cleansing. The Israelis have not forcibly taken anyone out of that enclave. They've told them to move for their own safety sake, but they are not taking boats and shipping people away. And furthermore, the reality is again that Israel has exercised supreme caution. Now, I want this Gaza rebuilt. I want peace between Israelis and Palestinians. No one benefits from war except for the Islamic Republic of Iran, except for the Muslim Brotherhood, except for Hamas, the organizations which want conflict again. I want peace in order to neutralize these threats once and for all so ordinary Palestinians, ordinary Israelis can live together safe and sound. I will say one other thing. I am very alarmed, Stephen A. About the level of anti Semitism in this country where commentators, as you were alluding to on the far right like Tucker Carlson or like, you know, Dave Smith or frankly like Candace Owens that you had on your show, people on the radical left, people like Mehdi Hassan, people like Hassan Piker, people like Max Blumenthal, make wild claims that the Zionists control America, that this is Israel's war and they're manipulating the United States like that's baloney. And I think good people should call that out every time because it foments antisemitism and hate right here at home.
- [29:12]
Stephen A. Smith
Well, you brought up the name Candace Owens, who was a guest on this show just last week. And let me get you to respond to what she has say. I mean, she's got over 4 million subscribers on the YouTube channel, over 6 million followers on Instagram alone. She's relish, she's very popular. Nobody can deny that. And, and she's somebody on the right. She's a voter and a supporter unapologetically of Trump, of most conservative causes. But on this particular issue, she has been all in against Israel and then some. So let's hear what she has to say and get your response to exactly what she has had to say about Israel and to some degree the Jewish community. Listen to this.
- [29:55]
D
Well, it was very obvious that this war was going to happen because the American foreign policy is dictated by Israel. And it was problematic that Bibi Netanyahu was increasing his rhetoric against Iran. And this is after they have effectively seized land in Syria. They were cheering what happened in Syria. We knew that it was going to end up wind up with Christians being mass murdered, which is what's happening right now. And what's happening in the Middle east, for those who aren't clear on this, is Israel is simply is expanding its borders, whether that be by carpet bombing women and children, which we have not had a person with power effectively state that this is morally wrong, of course. And now it seems they also want to annex the West Bank. What's happening in the west bank, which has nothing to do with Gaza, is the individuals that live there are being traumatized by the idf. And so if you're paying attention, it's very clear that they have become increasingly radical and they are effectively, as they always do, using the American military to fulfill their foreign policy interests because they are a small nation and they don't have the bodies to be able to accomplish that. They need the might of the American military to accomplish their foreign Middle Eastern objectives. And so, yeah, it was very. I am on record saying this for the last two years, we're going to war with Iran one way or the other. Because what Bibi Netanyahu wants is what Bibi Netanyahu gets.
- [31:17]
Stephen A. Smith
Floors. Yours Floors.
- [31:18]
Jonathan Greenblatt
Your.
- [31:18]
Stephen A. Smith
Jonathan, your response to that?
- [31:20]
Jonathan Greenblatt
Lie after lie after lie after lie after lie.
- [31:26]
Stephen A. Smith
Give it to me.
- [31:27]
Jonathan Greenblatt
I mean, look, there's a lot to unpack in what she said. Again, the Islamic Republic of Iran declared war on America 46 years ago. They've slaughtered hundreds of servicemen, civilians, journalists, diplomats, etc. They tried to kill the President, United States, again, President Trump. They've tried to kill and put fatwas out on people like former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, former U.S. ambassador of the U.N. john Bolton, former State Department Special Envoy Brian Hook. I mean, this is what they have done in just recent years. And the reality is that to make these claims that Israel is carpet bombing, does she know what that word, what that term even means? Because you have literally no examples of that whatsoever. Israel hasn't taken any territory out of Syria. Maybe she's talking about the Golan Heights, which Israel took in 1967 after the Syrian shot at Israeli kibbutzim and Israeli civilians lobbed mortars from that high strategic plateau for decades against them. Maybe that's what she means. Look, Israel has done more to protect religious minorities, including Christians, including Druze, in Syria. And in Israel, the only country in the Middle east where the Christian community is growing is Israel, not in any of the neighboring countries. And lastly, I'll just say these claims that, like Israel needs America to fight its wars. I mean, look at what the Israeli military has accomplished in Gaza, taking out Sinwar in Lebanon, taking out the Hezbollah leadership in Iran, taking out the Iranian military command structure. You know, all over. Israel has fought these wars entirely on its own. Now it's certainly true that the Israeli military uses some American military equipment, equipment for which they pay most of the money that we give to Israel. Military aid. Israel is obligated to spend on U.S. munitions, U.S. equipment, U.S. hardware. So this is a very positive relationship and it gives us a beachhead in the most, you know, in this very strategic part of the planet. Okay, so America doesn't fight Israel's wars. But let me make sure that your listeners are clear about this. It is anti Semitic and a long standing press to accuse the Jews of manipulating events for their own interests. You know, again, the Russians use this to justify the massacres of the Jews. The Nazis use this to justify the massacres of the Jews. Arab governments use this just by pushing out and massacring the Jews after 48. And now Candace Owens is using it. And it's not just irresponsible, it's, it's incitement. And so I don't care how many followers she has, what she doesn't have at her fingertips are the facts. And a cursory understanding of these issues would lead you to conclude that the claims that she's making are not just spurious, they're just flat out wrong.
- [34:25]
Stephen A. Smith
More to Stephen A. Smith SHOW with the one and only Jonathan Greenblatt in a minute.
- [34:33]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and safeway now through July 15th. Stock up on all your favorite personal care brands and earn four times points to use on later purchases for discounts on groceries or gas. Shop in store or online for items like Pantene Shampoo, Old Spice, Total Body Deodorant, Tampax Pearl, Venus Razors, Head and shoulder Shampoo, Olay Body Wash and Pantene conditioner. And earn 4 times points. Hurry before these deals are gone. Offer ends July 15th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.
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Jonathan Greenblatt
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Stephen A. Smith
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- [35:20]
Stephen A. Smith
Carpool for the cars you couldn't live without. Trust Ameca Auto Insurance, Ameca Empathy is our best policy. Welcome back to the Stephen A. Smith show. Jonathan Greenblatt right here with Anti Defamation League, CEO of the Anti Defamation League, right here with yours truly on this show. I heard what you had to say about Candace Owens. Let's talk about folks on the extreme right, the Steve Bannon's of the world, the Tucker Carlson of the world, the Marjorie Taylor Greenes representative, top Marjorie Taylor Greene's of the world and others who are adamant that the United States shouldn't be involved. Let Israel handle this matter on their own. Why do we have to get involved? We need to be about America first, more nationalistic in our view and our actions, as opposed to being globalistic. Your thoughts about that?
- [36:19]
Jonathan Greenblatt
It's interesting because I think you're kind of making the point that anti Semitism and anti Jewish hate is an equal opportunity employer. And you have these folks in the MAGA movement. Now look, President Trump has been extraordinary in terms of support of the Jewish state, as have many of the people in the current administration. But you have people around them like Tucker Carlson, like Steve Bannon, who are, I think, again, just wrong on the facts and have a certain animus toward the Jewish state, which is very worrisome to me. A nuclear armed Iran, again, which has threatened America for decades and decades and decades is deeply problematic, not just to us, by the way, or to the Jewish state, but to our allies in Saudi Arabia, in the United Arab Emirates, in Bahrain, all countries upon which Iran has territorial ambitions. But of course, as well in Qatar. Like I would ask Tucker Carlson if I could tell us about your relationship with Qatar. Help us understand, you know, how your bills get paid. Qatar is this country that sort of acts in one hand as an interlocutor between America and Israel and Hamas and Iran, but they're constantly playing both sides and they've got very deep pockets and have used that money and spread it around. And I think the influence of Qatari money is deeply problematic on our public conversation. So I think that that's part of what's going on here, part of what's driving the animus of some of these folks, because Qatar is a country that's that openly supported the Muslim Brotherhood, openly supported Hamas for decades. STEPHEN A. And so when your audience hears these comments, you need to pull back the curtain and realize what may be behind it, whose agenda, whose motives, whose song is really being sung.
- [38:06]
Stephen A. Smith
And that's why I love the fact that you highlight what you believe and what you're classifying as anti Semitic. Because I think it's incredibly important that we all understand your definition of what antisemitism is. Because when somebody like myself or others who are not Jewish hear these things, we might say, okay, they disagree with Jonathan Greenblatt, you know, they disagree with the Anti Defamation League, they might disagree with Benjamin Netanyahu, but we don't go as far as to say antisemitic so when you say anti Semitic, enlighten my audience as to what really falls under that category so we can enlighten everybody and everybody can understand. Because one of the things that I'm a stickler for, I can't stand somebody that's not black talking to me about what I should believe is racist and is not. Just like, if you bring up antisemitism. Well, if you're a Jewish individual, you have a right to classify what is anti Semitic. So long as there's consistency amongst. I think everybody understands in the black community what racism is. I think everybody in the Jewish community should be unified and aligned with what antisemitism is. Classify it, define it for us so we'll all know.
- [39:14]
Jonathan Greenblatt
Let's do it. Anti Semitism is an irrational hatred of individuals or institutions because of their Jewish identity. Whether you define that as their ethnicity, their faith or even their nation. It is an irrational hatred of Jewish people. It often manifests as a series of tropes or myths. The Jews have too much power. The Jews are always cheap. The Jews are not loyal to the country in which they live. The Jews want to kill Christian people or Muslim people, people who are different than them. The Jews are not legitimate. Right. Sometimes they say the Jewish religion isn't legitimate or the Jewish race is not legitimate, or they say the Jewish state is not legitimate. But you see these myths, Stephen A. That transcend culture, that cross continents. And look, some Jews present as white like I do. There are also Jews of color who present as might present as African American or Asian American or be of a different kind of ethnic persuasion. There were Jews who are deeply religious and observant. There were Jews who may self define as atheist or like secular humanists and never step foot in a synagogue. There are Jews who come from Arab countries whose native tongue might be Arab or Arabic or Kurdish or from Muslim countries where their native tongue might be Turkish or Persian. But Jews as a people have experienced hate over the centuries. So when it comes to the state of Israel, what is anti Semitic or what is just critical? There's nothing wrong, like I said at the top, with criticizing policies of the Jewish state. Nothing wrong with criticizing policies of America. Criticizing President Trump, criticizing America doesn't make you anti American. And criticizing policies of the State of Israel or beating your head doesn't make you anti Semitic. But here's where it crosses the line. It's something for you, Stephen A. To think about. Maybe like a. Like a heuristic to use.
- [41:17]
Stephen A. Smith
Sure.
- [41:18]
Jonathan Greenblatt
Call it the 3D test. Number one, do you not criticize Israel, but demonize all Israelis, hold all Israelis responsible? Number two, do you delegitimize the state of Israel? Do you suggest it doesn't have the right to exist? Will you not acknowledge its right to exist as a Jewish democratic state? And then number three, double standards. Do you apply double standards to Israel that is different than the way that you treat other countries? So what I would tell you is criticism of Israel crosses a line into antisemitism when it invokes demonization, delegitimization, or double standards.
- [42:00]
Stephen A. Smith
Is that the case when we're talking about the Jewish state? When people use what transpired in 1948, immediately in the aftermath of World War II, how they feel Palestinians were displaced, how this territory was granted to Israel? When you look at the 60s and the lines that were drawn at that particular moment in time, I believe it was 1967, 68, like you pointed out to this very present day, when folks are using, when you see these protests on college campuses, when you see pro Palestinian supporters or, you know, Palestinian supporters, pro Palestinian support, when they're pointing to these folks that have been displaced and what have you, and they're relating that to being minorities in the nations and having to scratch and claw and fight battles uphill because a power structure has taken over what they believe should be rightfully theirs in a civilized society. And that's the their rationale behind questioning the state of Israel. How do you as a Jewish individual, the CEO of the Anti Defamation League, respond to that?
- [43:01]
Jonathan Greenblatt
Well, I think there's nothing wrong with, with peaceful protest. I think there's nothing wrong with voicing your opinion. I think there's nothing wrong with saying free Gaza. But if your idea of political protest is standing in front of a synagogue on Saturday morning while people are walking into services and screaming Free Gaza at them, these Jewish people who just want to go pray, I have a problem with that.
- [43:22]
Stephen A. Smith
Okay.
- [43:22]
Jonathan Greenblatt
Again, I think there's nothing wrong with being on a campus and expressing a strong opinion and writing an op ed and even camping out necessarily. But if your encampment refuses to admit individuals who identify as Jewish unless they say they're anti Zionist, I have a problem with that. You apply a litmus test to all Jews. If your idea of protest, again, in an environment is I'm going to speak up and vandalize a synagogue, but I would never think of vandalizing a Russian Orthodox church that was happening in Ukraine, I have a problem with that. So again, there's nothing wrong with protest. Even a. But when you harass, when you vandalize, when you commit acts of violence. Again, holding all Jews collectively responsible for something you don't like in the Middle East. That's a big problem for me. And look, I don't mean that in a theoretical way. Let's talk about what happened a month ago when two individuals were shot in the back 20 times when they walked out of the Capitol Jewish Museum.
- [44:21]
Stephen A. Smith
Right.
- [44:22]
Jonathan Greenblatt
Did not know where they worked. He did not know what they thought. He did not know where they were from. But they were targets for him because they came out of the Capitol Jewish Museum at a Jewish event. Or in Boulder, Colorado, where I was. I was in D.C. right after that attack a week later. Yeah, this group of people were firebombed by a person screaming, and the Zionists free Palestine. Now, again, when I say firebomb, he sprayed it then using a homemade flamethrower. And we're not talking about people marching in IDF uniforms. Okay? We're talking about elderly people who were walking across a park to honor the hostages still held in captivity in Gaza. So again, if this is your. If you say things like globalize the intifada, which is a slogan that promotes violence. The intifada was the violent attacks against Israelis killed more than a thousand people. When you say globalizing intifada. And then again, you subject Jewish people, irrespective of where they're from or how they think or why they may vote the way they do, you subject them to harassment. You vandalize their buildings and their homes and their synagogues and their schools, and. And then again, you assault them with guns or with knives or with flamethrowers. I mean, this is not textbook antisemitism. This is terrifying anti Semitism. And we need to recognize.
- [45:45]
Stephen A. Smith
What about the critics and the cynics that would point to. What is it? October 2023, if I remember correctly, there was an Israeli strike on a church in Gaza that resulted in the deaths of Christians. This is what they said. I don't necessarily recall that, but I'm asking you about that because I know you do. If it happens, what about folks that would use that as an example to point out what's transpiring in Palestinians?
- [46:07]
Jonathan Greenblatt
Yeah, I don't know the specifics of that strike. I'm not familiar with it, so I can't speak to it.
- [46:13]
Stephen A. Smith
Okay.
- [46:14]
Jonathan Greenblatt
I do know. Look, like in a war, bad things happen. Again, the Israelis have tried. Have indeed. They have gone into hospitals because there are tunnels underneath where the militants are hiding. They've gone into schools because they store weapons and munitions, again, inside of them. And when the Israeli, when the IDF has made mistakes, they have investigations, they apologize, they try to work it out. Hamas, they say openly that they said it openly after the October 7th. They said, we will do this again and again and again and again. Again, they butchered elderly people, they raped women, they shot children in front of their parents. They shot parents in front of their children. The level of depravity knows no bounds. So again, the IDF and the democratically elected government of Israel is accountable in the court of law and in the court of public opinion. Hamas, you know, Hezbollah, the Islamic Republic of Iran, these aren't democratic institutions. These aren't people who abide by the popular will. They only rule by the law of the gun. And that is very difficult when Israel has to face these. These countries or these entities which declare their intent to destroy the Jewish state. So that's not to say that Israel is not perfect. They make mistakes. There's room to criticize. I just think we need to make sure that we're modulating appropriately and again, not holding the country to double standards that aren't applied to anywhere else in the world.
- [47:45]
Stephen A. Smith
Before I let you get on out of here, just a couple of questions and thanks again to Jonathan Greenblatt, CEO of the adl. I really, really appreciate your time. Do you believe that things are going to get better? I'm talking about in the immediate. I'm not talking long term, but in the immediate. Do you believe things are going to get better or worse in light of the Israel, Iran conflict taking place as we speak?
- [48:07]
Jonathan Greenblatt
Well, look, Jews around the world are not safe as long as the Islamic Republic calls to murder Zionists, calls to end the Jewish state by any means necessary, and commits itself to this homicidal agenda. So I am hopeful that this ceasefire isn't a tactical play, but is the start of a strategic shift. If we could see a change in the goals of the Islamic Republic of Iran, that they would accept their Jewish neighbor like the Jewish state would accept their Islamic neighbor, I think all things are possible. But unless they renounce their agenda of extremism, unless they commit to stop funding terror and to stop focusing on destroying their neighbor, then I worry, Stephen, a. That this isn't a. This is not more than a pause. And that would be, I think, again, problematic for everyone. Everyone suffers. Everyone suffers when this tyrannical government, you know, continues its terror activities.
- [49:18]
Stephen A. Smith
What are we to make before I let you get on out of here? What are we to make of the fact that what President Trump was willing to do on behalf of Israeli interest and American interest, to be fair, that he was willing to do something that one would say Biden wasn't willing to do, that President Barack Obama wasn't willing to do, along with some of Trump's other predecessors. What do you believe us outside of the Jewish community should make of President Trump willing to do something that others weren't willing to do, meaning handling it the way that he handled it in terms of electing to nuke the, you know, to bomb, rather, the nuclear sites that are. That Iran, where Iran was. Iran was obviously enriching, trying to enrich uranium and what have you. What do we make of that?
- [50:11]
Jonathan Greenblatt
So, a couple things. So, number one, you know, number one, again, presidents for decades have had a stated policy. They would not allow the Iranian regime, the Islamic Republic of Iran, to get nuclear weapons. Why? Because of the threat that they pose to America, to our allies, and to our interests around the world. So that's been a state of policy for a long time. You know, I may or may not I don't agree with everything President Trump does, but I credit him with realizing that diplomacy only works. You know, you only have peace through strength, and diplomacy only works if you're willing to kind of give consequences when it fails. I mean, you won't come to the table and negotiate if you think there's no consequences to not doing it. And so the Iranians for years, for years have played the game of delay and deny and obfuscate. I mean, it's what they have done for a long time at the negotiating table. The IAEA said they were in violation. Human rights observers for years have said they're killing protesters, they're shooting people. The Israelis, who clearly have good intelligence, I mean, literally, what the Israelis have done in terms of penetrating the Islamic Republic, being on the inside, is short of a miracle. And it shows us they have great intelligence what's happening on the ground, inside the regime. So when they say they were this close to a bomb, I believe them because they were able to hit these people, like, in their bedrooms at night with such precision that only, like, the Supreme Leader's closest confidants are wounded or killed. Nobody else, even in, like, the apartment building. It's amazing. So clearly, Stephen A. They knew what they were doing. And clearly, Donald Trump listened to them. He did say, I'm going to give the Iranians 60 days to negotiate. And then when the Iranians failed to develop or deliver a meaningful proposal, he felt it was in America's interest to take action. I respect his commitment and his willingness to use force as a last resort. Now again, my hope would be that Iran would realize the folly of their approach. They would see the damage that Israel, United States have done. They would look at the wreckage of their own economy, the anger of their own people, the debris of their own nuclear. They should say, you know what, we need to try something else. This is not working. I hope and pray that they'll come to their senses. Whether or not it's the Supreme Leader, I don't have any faith in him or it's other people inside the country. But they need to try something different in order to achieve a different outcome.
- [52:44]
Stephen A. Smith
Very, very last question to you. Antisemitism today, worse than it was a year ago, two years ago, 10 years ago, or along the same lines, how would you classify it?
- [52:59]
Jonathan Greenblatt
Look, ADL is a data driven evidence based organization. We've been tracking anti Semitic attitudes, measuring attitudes and tracking incidents for decades. We've been measuring attitudes for more than 60 years. And in the last five years intense anti Jewish attitudes in the United States have more than doubled as a share of the population from 11% in 2019 to 24% last year. That's stunning. And then we also track incidents. These are acts of harassment, vandalism or violence. When I started in the job in 2015, we had 940 that year. Last year, Stephen A. We had nearly 9,400. It's 10x and we hit record. One thing worth noting for you and your audience, we broke the record. We saw the highest number in 2019 and then a new high in 21 and then 22 and then 23 and then 24. I mean literally in five of the last six years we've broken the record. So based on attitudes, based on incidents, we are seeing some of the like worst indicators that we've ever tracked. But what that does for me is energize me to do better. We've got to try new approaches. We, we've got to build new partnerships, we've got to strengthen existing relationships in this moment we have to keep in mind that it's always darkest before the dawn. And I have tremendous conviction that with determination and focus again, whether it's the Jewish and black community who have so much in common, our people are so aligned on so much. There is richness and opportunity to work together to not only build better outcomes for Jews and for black people, but have better outcomes for all of America. That's my sincere very last question.
- [54:58]
Stephen A. Smith
What does your data show? Was the cause of those record breaking numbers and is there a solution in sight? If so, what is it? Last question.
- [55:11]
Jonathan Greenblatt
Couple things are driving this. Number one, I think we're living in a moment where our political or public conversation has really coarsened. And so people, you know, when systems fail, the haves and the have nots gap grows. People and systems aren't working again. People think they can't get a break, they look for someone to blame. And if you will, populists and some leaders scapegoat and will blame small groups of people for what they think is the problems of the world. Okay, you see some social media influencers, by the way. And so number one, I think there's a kind of blame game. Number two, extremists feel emboldened when you can get millions of followers on Instagram or on substack or on TikTok in ways you never could before. And they're getting elected to office and they're getting ad deals, so extremists feel emboldened. And then number three, social media. Social media is a super spreader of not just anti Semitism, anti black racism, other forms of bigotry. You know, if it bleeds, it leads. And so you're seeing stuff on Insta, on X, on TikTok, on so many of these platforms that only feeds, you know, the craziness. And by the way, as Jenny takes on, you know, as things like Wikipedia become our only source of information, it's even worse. So you add those things together, a kind of polarization, emboldened, extremist, intensifying polarization, emboldened extremism and social media becoming our number one source of information. That equation adds up to normalizing anti Semitism. And I think what's dangerous about that is again, it affects Jews for sure. Obviously we're only 2% of the population, but we're 60 plus percent. 60 plus percent of like religiously inspired hate crimes were 15% of overall hate crimes. I mean, it's crazy, which is why we got to deal with this. So what's the solution? Look, number one, I think in order to deal with the social media stuff, we need regulation. Again, I'm not a fan of censorship, but you know, you could get sued if you say something on ESPN that someone considers defamatory. You say it on social media, you're free to go. So we just need social media to live by the same rules that traditional media lives by. Like, should be liable if you commit, liable. Real simple. That's number one. Number two, we need to really improve our education system. Like, we know already that our kids don't know the Constitution. But I think there's a way. A lot of criticism happens of dei, and I understand that. And there's things I don't like about the DEI industrial complex, but diversity helps our country. I believe in inclusion deeply, and I think we need to rethink the kind of education we're giving our kids so that they understand what it's like to live in this incredibly heterogeneous, vibrant world where diversity actually makes us better. And then number three, I think we just need. People need to speak up and say something when they see something. Like, when you see antisemitism or racism or sexism, like, say something. It's not PC to say to somebody, you know, don't call somebody, you know, the blank word. Right? Or don't say that all Jews are, like, you know, not loyal to America. So I think if people would speak up and, like, find their kind of, you know, their self, express themselves and speak their mind in a way that protects everybody, speak up, I think, secondly, again, rethink education. And thirdly, address social media. Anything's possible.
- [58:48]
Stephen A. Smith
Jonathan Greenblatt, it's been a while since we've spoken, but I love talking to you. You know, you always have a home here on this show. Anytime you want to come on, you know, you're more than welcome. It's great to see you again. Great to talk to you again. I'm always here for you. Feel free to reach out anytime, buddy. And I'm sure I'll see you in a very, very near future. You take care of yourself. And I thank you so much for giving me all the time that you've given me today. I really appreciate it. At the last minute, I might add.
- [59:10]
Jonathan Greenblatt
Thank you, my friend. Thank you so much.
- [59:12]
Stephen A. Smith
All right, the one and only Jonathan Greenblatt for the Anti Defamation League, the CEO. You heard it right there from him. He would know what he's talking about. I'm going to leave y' all a soak on that because I don't need to elaborate anything. I don't need to elaborate on anything that he said. You heard him. You heard what he had to say. Okay? It's an education. Appreciate it. Take it for what it is, soak it all in, absorb it and watch it again and again and again if you can, because obviously he dropped a lot of knowledge there. That's it for this edition of the Stephen A. Smith Show. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I do. I hope you walk away.
- [59:42]
Jonathan Greenblatt
Thank you.
- [59:42]
Stephen A. Smith
As edified as I feel I have, and I hope that you'll continue to watch the show and certainly support the Anti Defamation League. Look at what this man is saying. Do your research and Jonathan Greenblatt and what he brings to the table, and I think that we'll all benefit from that. Until next time, everybody. I got to sign off. I'm still traveling due to the NBA Finals and the upcoming NBA draft, so you'll see me ABC, ESPN, etc. Until next time, you'll also see me right here on YouTube as well, so I'm not going anywhere. This is the Stephen A. Smith show signing off. Until next time. Peace and love everybody. Bye bye.
- [60:22]
Jonathan Greenblatt
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- [60:23]
Stephen A. Smith
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- [60:39]
Jonathan Greenblatt
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Stephen A. Smith
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- [61:00]
Ryan Seacrest
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