Full Show: Episode featuring Kendrick Perkins | Kriegel’s book on Mike Tyson |Transition of Inside the NBA to ESPN

Summary

The Stephen A. Smith Show – Episode Featuring Kendrick Perkins, Mark Kriegel’s Mike Tyson Book, and Inside the NBA’s Transition to ESPN

Release Date: June 2, 2025

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Introduction and Opening Remarks

Timestamp: [01:08] – [04:39]

Stephen A. Smith welcomes listeners to another episode of his show, expressing gratitude towards his growing subscriber base on YouTube and the immense support received through iHeartRadio. He briefly promotes his New York Times bestselling memoir, Straight Shooter, available in paperback at straightshooterbook.com. Stephen outlines the episode's agenda, which includes discussions on the NBA playoffs, Diddy and 50 Cent's remarks regarding Donald Trump, and an interview with Mark Kriegel about his new book on Mike Tyson.

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NBA Playoffs Analysis

Timestamp: [04:39] – [09:57]

Stephen A. Smith:
"The Finals are now set between the Indiana Pacers and Oklahoma City Thunder. The Pacers made the Finals by putting away the New York Knicks in game six... the Pacers were deeper and exceptionally well coached." ([04:49])

Key Points:

• Indiana Pacers vs. New York Knicks: The Pacers secured their spot in the Finals by defeating the Knicks 125-108 in Game 6. Smith highlights the Pacers' depth and coaching as crucial factors.

• New York Knicks' Decline: Despite reaching the Eastern Conference Finals, the Knicks' performance faltered, partly due to significant trades involving Mikhail Bridges and inadequate depth compared to Oklahoma City.

• Final Series Comparison: Smith opines that the Finals featuring the Pacers and Thunder is a better matchup than if the Knicks had advanced, citing Oklahoma City's defensive prowess and depth.

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Interview with Kendrick Perkins

Timestamp: [09:57] – [26:27]

Stephen A. Smith:
"You swore up and down there was no way in hell the Indiana Pacers were winning this series... What happened to the Knicks and Pacers?" ([05:34])

Kendrick Perkins:
"Unless Giannis calls and saying he wants to go to New York, I think the Knicks should run it back." ([07:40])

Key Points:

• Pacers' Success: Perkins admits he was wrong about the Pacers' chances, commending their resilience and strategic play.

• Anthony Towns' Performance: Criticizes Towns for lacking defensive strength and conditioning, emphasizing the need for him to lose weight and improve agility to elevate his game ([07:40]).

• Future of the Eastern Conference: Discusses potential contenders like the Pacers and Cavs, while expressing skepticism about teams like Detroit Pistons due to their limited depth and talent ([10:09]).

• Community and Personal Reflections: Perkins shares his deep connection with Oklahoma City, highlighting his investment in the community and the emotional bond he has with the city and its fans ([25:20]).

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Prize Picks and UFC 316 Discussion

Timestamp: [12:23] – [18:09]

Kyle Forgeard:
"Sean O’Malley is a sniper... he's in incredible shape and made a lot of changes in his life." ([16:09])

Key Points:

• UFC 316 Picks: Forgeard discusses his predictions for the upcoming UFC event, favoring Sean "Sugar" O’Malley over Patchy Mix and Kayla Harrison due to his strategic fighting style and improved condition.

• Community Engagement: Encourages listeners to engage with Prize Picks through the app, enhancing their sports-watching experience by allowing them to make lineup picks and potentially win cash prizes.

• 50 Cent's Predictions: 50 Cent partners on the show also shares insights, highlighting the likelihood of O’Malley winning significant strikes and predicting outcomes for other fighters.

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Transition of Inside the NBA to ESPN

Timestamp: [27:23] – [34:48]

Stephen A. Smith:
"Inside the NBA on TNT has ended its 35-year run, but the show will continue on ESPN with the same crew and production team." ([28:09])

Key Points:

• End of an Era: Smith reflects on the final broadcast of Inside the NBA on TNT, honoring the show's 35-year legacy and its beloved hosts—Ernie Johnson, Charles Barkley, Kenny Smith, and Shaquille O’Neal.

• Transition to ESPN: Elaborates on ESPN's acquisition of the show's rights, assuring fans that the beloved team and format will remain unchanged despite the network switch.

• Personal Connections: Shares personal connections with the hosts and expresses excitement for their future on ESPN, emphasizing continuity and maintaining the show's integrity.

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Interview with Mark Kriegel on Baddest Man: The Making of Mike Tyson

Timestamp: [42:23] – [62:38]

Stephen A. Smith:
"Mark Kriegel’s new book delves deeper into Mike Tyson's humanity beyond his public persona. What can we expect from this book that we haven’t already heard?" ([50:09])

Mark Kriegel:
"This book explores Tyson's humanity, his personal losses, and the psychological aspects that shaped him beyond the ring." ([51:03])

Key Points:

• Humanizing Tyson: Kriegel emphasizes that the book aims to portray Tyson as a multifaceted human being, delving into his personal struggles, such as the loss of his mother and battles with addiction, which contributed to his complex persona.

• Relationship with Cus D’Amato: Discusses the profound impact of Tyson's trainer, Cus D’Amato, highlighting the psychological conditioning that transformed Tyson into a fearsome boxer and questioning the cost of this transformation on his humanity.

• Unveiling Untold Stories: Promises revelations about Tyson’s early life, his relationships, and the internal conflicts that were not fully covered in previous narratives, providing a more nuanced understanding of his life and career.

• Authorization and Cooperation: Clarifies that Tyson did not authorize the book, yet was cooperative and generous in his interactions, offering insights without formal endorsement.

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Discussion on 50 Cent’s Comments Regarding Donald Trump and Sean "Diddy" Combs

Timestamp: [62:38] – [70:50]

50 Cent:
"Donald doesn't take well to disrespect and doesn't forget who chooses to go against him." ([65:20])

Key Points:

• 50 Cent’s Stance: 50 Cent openly criticizes Donald Trump’s potential pardon of Sean "Diddy" Combs, expressing strong disapproval and threatening to reach out to Trump to oppose the pardon.

• Stephen A. Smith’s Perspective: Smith argues that pardoning Combs should be based on the validity of the charges and the court's judgment rather than personal vendettas or public opinions as expressed by 50 Cent.

• Moral and Legal Considerations: Emphasizes the severity of the charges against Combs—sex trafficking and racketeering—and the importance of upholding justice irrespective of personal affiliations or perceptions.

• Lack of Details on Beef: Points out the absence of clarity regarding the personal feud between 50 Cent and Diddy, expressing curiosity and seeking more information on the origins of their conflict.

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Timestamp: [70:50] – End

Stephen A. Smith wraps up the episode by reiterating his excitement for upcoming NBA Finals coverage and expressing gratitude towards his guests, Kendrick Perkins, Mark Kriegel, and Kyle Forgeard. He emphasizes his desire for a competitive Finals series, hoping for a six or seven-game showdown between the Indiana Pacers and Oklahoma City Thunder. Stephen signs off with well-wishes to his listeners, promising to return with more insightful and engaging content.

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Notable Quotes

• Stephen A. Smith on NBA Finals Quality:

  "This is a better final series than the Knicks would have given Oklahoma City Thunder." ([03:10])

• Kendrick Perkins on Anthony Towns:

  "The problem with Corey Anthony Towns is strength and conditioning. He has to lose 15 to 20 pounds." ([07:40])

• Mark Kriegel on Tyson’s Humanity:

  "This book explores Tyson's humanity, his personal losses, and the psychological aspects that shaped him beyond the ring." ([51:03])

• 50 Cent on Trump’s Potential Pardon of Diddy:

  "Donald doesn't take well to disrespect and doesn't forget who chooses to go against him." ([65:20])

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Conclusion

This episode of The Stephen A. Smith Show offers an in-depth analysis of the NBA playoffs, a heartfelt interview with Kendrick Perkins, insights into Mark Kriegel’s portrayal of Mike Tyson’s complex life, and a contentious discussion on 50 Cent’s stance regarding Donald Trump’s potential pardon of Sean "Diddy" Combs. Stephen A. Smith navigates through sports, personal stories, and societal issues with his characteristic fervor, providing listeners with a comprehensive and engaging discourse on current events in sports and beyond.

Transcript

[Ryan Seacrest]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Stephen A. Smith]

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[Kendrick Perkins]

I'm gonna make him an offer he can't refuse.

[Stephen A. Smith]

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[Kendrick Perkins]

In the family business.

[Stephen A. Smith]

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[Kendrick Perkins]

Someday I will call upon you to do a service for me.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Play the [e-mail] welcome to the family. No purchase necessary. VGW Group void.

[Kyle Forgeard]

We're prohibited by law.

[Stephen A. Smith]

21 plus terms and conditions apply. Welcome to the latest edition of the Stephen A. Smith show, coming at you over the Digital Airways of YouTube at least three times a week. Once again, as always, I'd like to pause and take a moment to thank my subscribers and followers. Obviously, the millions of downloads we received courtesy of iHeartRadio over the last few months and on YouTube we've now eclipsed in terms of our subscribers over 1.23 million. So I can't thank y' all for the love and support Enough. Keep it coming. And I'm gonna keep on coming to continue to like and follow the show. Just the bell to get notified for all of our newest content and you too shall be the latest member of the Stephen A. Smith show family. And while you're doing so, make sure to grab a copy of my New York Times bestselling book, Straight Shooter, a memoir of second chances and first takes now in paperback. Just go to straightshooterbook.com to get yourself a copy. That's straight shooterbook.com to get yourself a cop topic. So I got a lot of stuff to get into today. Obviously the NBA playoffs. There's some stuff on Diddy and 50 Cent and Donald Trump. What the hell do those three names have in common? I'll definitely touch on that. Of course, Mark Kriegel has written an outstanding book on Mike Tyson. Things that you didn't know, things that you haven't heard before. We'll have him on to discuss those things, but the first order of business is the NBA playoffs. And that's where we're getting started with the Finals are now set between the Indiana Paces and Oklahoma City Thunder. The Pacers made the Finals by putting away the New York knicks in game six Saturday night, 125 to 108. The Pacers were ultimately the better team. And now they head to the finals Thursday night to face the league mvp. And Shay Gilgis Alexander and the Oklahoma City Thunder can't say enough. Listen, I thought the Knicks was going to win this series of seven games. I really, really did. But when they blew it in game one, I didn't know how they couldn't, how they could recover from that. And sure enough, they didn't. That's one element to peel from it. Another element to PE from it is that the Paces were deeper and they were exceptionally well coached. And even though we respect Tom Thibodeau and what have you, the bottom line is, is that he's not Rick Carlisle. And then when you couple that with the fact that you got to look at the future in terms of the New York Knicks giving up five picks, four, four unprotected first round picks for Mikhail Bridges, and you saw his level of production or lack thereof at times, it doesn't look too pretty for the New York Knicks. They were there, they were in the conference finals. They were two games away from an NBA Finals birth, but they didn't. And to be honest with you, I'm gonna say something that's not gonna be that popular. From a purely basketball standpoint. This is a better final series than the Knicks would have given Oklahoma City Thunder. Cause I think if the New York Knicks had gone against Oklahoma City Thunder, they would have gotten blown out of the building. They would have gotten swept because they just weren't deep enough. And against Oklahoma City, you gotta be deep enough. Rick Carlisle has played 11 players at least 15 minutes a game during the regular season. So it's a better matchup for the Oklahoma City Thunder and it's a better basketball matchup for all. For us all to watch during the NBA Finals. That's my opinion. Okay, that's where I stand with it. But you probably prefer to hear from somebody else. And joining me now to break down the Eastern Conference Finals and look ahead to the NBA Finals is an NBA champion himself. Big Perk, as we affectionately call him. Kendrick Perkins won it all with the Celtics in 2008. And he joins me now, my partner in crime, on NBA Countdown and beyond. What's up, big boy? How are you doing, man? How's Everything.

[Kyle Forgeard]

Two things. Are those veins popping out of your arms? Are those veins I see Pop? Hello, bro. Hello. What you got going on?

[Stephen A. Smith]

No, I'm just.

[Kyle Forgeard]

What you got. I see a different. I see a different glow in you right now, man. You know what I mean? I'm seeing something different right now. You know what I mean? What you got going on over there?

[Stephen A. Smith]

He's just teasing me, man. You just teasing me. You just tease me because you know how desperate I was to get I get home because I was desperate to get home. I was being Oklahoma City, Minneapolis. I was sitting there praying we didn't have to go back to Minneapolis for game six. You know that. You know that. But Perk, let me ask you this question, man. Let's get right to it. You all. I mean, you. You got to give us an explanation. You swore up and down there was no way in hell the Indiana Pacers were winning this series and getting to the NBA Finals. Yet lo and behold, they are here. What the hell happened to the New York Knicks and the. In the, in the Indiana Pacers in the Eastern Conference finals, man?

[Kyle Forgeard]

Well, well, let me say this. I was wrong. I was wrong about this series. And I got to give credit to the Indiana paces, I will say that. But the. The Knicks. How dare you. How dare you. You're in the Eastern Conference finals. You just knocked off the defended champs. How dare you let your foot off the gas in game one. That's what I keep thinking about when I go back to this series. I keep thinking about that meltdown in Game 1 and how that ultimately cost the New York Knicks the series. And then all of a sudden things start down, spiraling from there. They've been playing catch up ever since and they never bounce back. Here's the thing, and say one, unless Giannis calls and saying he wants to go to New York, I think the Knicks should run it back. Obviously you get better with your bench, but I'm talking about your starting five and Josh hard. You run it back, right? But you hold guys accountable. And I'm looking at Carl Anthony Towns. That's why I'm circling. Hear me out. Soon as the game was over, I went to the Internet and everybody like, oh, first priority for the Knicks is train call Anthony Towns. I'm like, no, the hell is not. You're talking about a guy who gave you 23 to 24 points and almost 12 rebounds in this series. I believe it was right. Here's the thing. West and Leon Rose call Anthony Towns. They go all the way back to his Kentucky Day. Right. That's little bit over a decade ago. You should be able to hold him accountable. The problem with Corey Anthony Towns is strength and conditioning. He has to lose 15 to 20 pounds. He has to be able to get up the floor better. He has to be able to work on his lateral movement. Don't come telling me that he can't get better in his eighth or ninth season and say, I don't want to hear that. You know why? Because I watched Steph Curry get better late in his career when he won his fourth championship. You remember when people was picking on Steph Curry essay defensively?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yep.

[Kyle Forgeard]

It stopped against the Boston Celtics. You remember how you started guarding? They were trying to search him out. We saw him battling on the low block with, with. With Al Horford and Jalen Brown, and we're trying to. He wasn't budging. That's what needs to happen with Carl Anthony Towns. I'm gonna say this. If I'm calling Anthony Towns, I embrace all the criticism this summer. I use all the criticism. Matter of fact, I have every single clip on my phone that that is criticizing my. Me being a defensive liability, out of shape, whatever you want to call it, I'm using that as motivation. And I come back, I come back in better shape next year. I come back leaner, and I come back more focus.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Is that your way of saying if the New York Knicks for some reason had an opportunity to get Giannis Antetokounmpo, they shouldn't move Karl Anthony Towns? Is that what your way of saying that?

[Kyle Forgeard]

I said unless he call, I wouldn't. I wouldn't be reaching out. If I'm the New York Knicks, I wouldn't do that because.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Why not?

[Kyle Forgeard]

Because, man, we listen. We already know whether you and I agree with it or not. Call. Anthony Towns is the emotional guy. Right. Corey Thomas is the emotional guy. If he found out that World Wild west and Leon Rose were reaching out to try to trade him. Because you're gonna have to trade him if you want yachts. Right. You're gonna have to package him up with some. With some pieces and a third team involved, whatever it is, to send some draft picks there. If you want Giannis, you want them to contact you. You want Giannis to want to come to the Knicks before you even start entertaining that conversation. If not, guess what? Let's say you run it back. Two things for sure. We know the Boston Celtics, they're most likely not going to be there next year. Now, they're going to make some moves, but without Jason Tatum, they're not going to be title contenders. You know, the Milwaukee Bucks eliminating themselves. Diane Dollar is probably going to miss the entire season. So you still just looking at the Pacers, right? And maybe the Cavs, who are going to bounce back. Other than that, the Knicks have nothing. I mean, who, who else are they worried about in the Eastern Conference? I know Detroit. How about Detroit? How.

[Stephen A. Smith]

How about. How about Detroit? How about Detroit? Who didn't have Isaiah Stewart, who didn't had Ivy available to them and who has the rest of their team? What about them? I'm not underestimated. Detroit Pistons.

[Kyle Forgeard]

No, I'm not. I'm not either. But I'm saying if the Knicks, which I believe they will do, go out and improve their depth and get better on the perimeter right from the bench, I think they'll be just fine. They know what they have to do this off season to, to. To upgrade their roster.

[Stephen A. Smith]

What about your concerns about Carl Anthony Townsend? How gimpy he looked throughout these playoffs? His legs, it looked shaky, man. I'm just telling you right now, I don't know if I could depend on him in the next three to five years because of that. I'm talking about his legs. How toward size, 21ft, questionable knees. That stuff has been. Has been pervasive in his life for years, man.

[Kyle Forgeard]

It has, let's say. But that's why you get your big ass in shape. Let me, let me give you an example. When I was. When I first got traded to Oklahoma City, right, The first year I was there, I was coming off a torn ACL and I strained my meniscus, okay? And we went to the. We end up going, I believe it was, to the Western Conference final finals. And we got knocked off by the Dallas Mavericks, I believe it was. Or in the second round, I can't really believe. I can't really hit it on the head right now, but it was either, right? All right, cool. We get knocked off that summer. I went in the lab. Now, mind you, I was in my eighth and ninth season as well. And I'm not comparing myself to Coy at the times. I'm telling you the amount of work that you need to put in to get to the level, okay? The Thunder sent the trainer home with me, who was with me the entire summer. His name was Chris. He said they sent them down. They made me get on the diet. I had a book this thick of things that I had to do and follow throughout the course of the day. I ended the season 288 pounds. I came back into camp at 253 with 9% body fat because I knew I had to get in shape one for my knees. But in order to be able to get up and down with Russell Westbrook, KD and James Harden, that's all you got to do, hold them accountable.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Mikel Bridges, five first round picks, four unprotected. How are you feeling about him right now?

[Kyle Forgeard]

I got mixed feelings and say about Mikhail Bridges. It was time to. Because it was times where I was like, oh, that's the Mikhail Bridges I know right there. Right. And I don't want to just yet. He didn't have a great series or like he had an average series in the, in the Eastern Conference finals, but remember how great he was in that Boston series? The dude was bought right in service, especially in the four quarters on the road. So this is what I said about Mikhail Bridges. I think you have to address Jalen Bronson before you can start addressing a Mikhail Bridges and OG Anovi and a lack of consistency offensively throughout the Eastern Conference finals. Jalen Brunson got to get off the ball, man. Like, he gotta get off the ball and say he can't continue to start the game dribbling, dribbling the oxygen out of the ball. He's, he's starting to become a Luka Doncic. And I say that respectfully because both of those guys are hell of a players. And you know, I'm a fan of big body Brussels, but what I'm watching is I'm watching them walk the ball up the floor. I'm watching the Knicks start their offense with damn near 15 on the clock. They always borderline getting eight seconds called. And I'm watching Mikhail Bridges and OG at a no. Define their offense once Jalen Brunson goes to the bench. That can't happen, man.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Perk, I got more to ask you, but I gotta get outta here to pay some bills in a second. I'll be right back with you. More the Stephen A. Smith show with Kendrick Perkins in a minute. Joining me now to talk about his picks for the upcoming UFC 316 event on Saturday, June 7, is prize pick partner Kyle Forjard. What's up, Kyle? How you doing, man? How's everything?

[Kyle Forgeard]

What's up, Stephen A. How we doing? You good?

[Stephen A. Smith]

I've always. I want to make sure I pronounce it. Is that. Did I pronounce your last name right? Four shot. Is that, Is that the right pronunciation?

[Kyle Forgeard]

My, My hockey coaches and stuff, everyone butchers it since day one.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So four Sharks, I got you four. Shark four. Shot. I got it, man. I appreciate it, man. Thanks so much. I see you went. I. I see you went more on Sean o' Malley, less on Patchy Mix and less on Kayla Harrison. Why do you think Sean O' Malley's gonna have more than 72 and a half significant strikes? Strikes. And Paty Mix is going to have less than 57 and a half significant strikes.

[Kyle Forgeard]

You know, I think everyone thinks that Sugar has to knock out Marab early for him to win, but I just don't. I don't know if I see that happening. I think it's going to be a war at the end of the day, and so I see that fight lasting a long time. I don't. I don't think it's going to be a second round knockout. I. I'd be happy if it was because I want Sugar to win, but I just don't see it playing out like that. And then those other two fights, the patchy one, that's going to be a brawl, so I think it's going to end quick. And then same with the Kayla Harrison one, I think that's going to be a quick one. So that's why I went less on those two. And then more on Sugar. Pretty simple. We got our boy OG at our full send MMA camp too. He's really good with picks, so.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay.

[Kyle Forgeard]

Usually hit these pretty often.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Why do you also have a community play? You also have a community play, right? What's going on with that? Tell me about that.

[Kyle Forgeard]

Yeah, so that's on the app. So basically, you know, I. I can't even watch UFC without playing prize picks. You know, it just makes watching the fight so much more fun. So we like to do a pick and then we put it on the prize picks app. It's right on the homepage. So all our fans can just like, click it, ride with us, and then we're all watching the fight and we're all rooting, hoping that it hits together. It's so fun. I love it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Now the main. The main event is a highly anticipated rematch for prospects partner Shane o' Malley. Sugar. Sean o' Malley, who's looking to reclaim the bantamweight title. What are your thoughts on that rematch?

[Kyle Forgeard]

You know, obviously we saw. It's crazy because Murad was an underdog in the first fight, right? Like, everyone thought Sugar was just gonna clean him out. And I think after that performance and then obviously the last fight, his performance against Umar was just out of this world. I mean, everyone was blown away. I Actually rewatched it last night, and it was just insane. So now it's crazy how it's completely flipped. Everyone's counting Suga once again, which was kind of in the same position he was when he was fighting Aljo. We were at that fight, too, and nobody thought he had a chance, and he shocked the world. So I think Sugar's good in these situations. I think mentally, when he's being counted out and, you know, he's the underdog, I think that's when he shows up and performs his best.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah, I think the pro. The only issue I have with Sugar, Sean, is that it's like you have to bring the action to him because he's ready to counter when he has to chase you, when you're moving, particularly when you're ready to wrestle because you're not standing up there trying to fight him. It's a tough thing for him. It's almost as if he gets bored. That's what I'm worried about. I don't. I don't think that'll happen, but I can't underestimate the possibility. What about you?

[Kyle Forgeard]

Yeah, I mean, if you rewatch that fight, rewatch it and watch the fifth round. Sugar threw two leg kicks. I think he hit him, like, right in the liver. And Marov was hurt, and that was after getting beat up for four rounds. So, listen, Sugar's a sniper. I was actually there training with him the other day. We had him on the podcast. He's in incredible shape. He's dialed. He's made a lot of changes in his life, and I think he's going to shock the world once again. But that's what makes this sport the best, is you just never know. You just don't know what's going to happen.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Prize picks, partner extraordinaire, Kyle Forge. Yard right here with the Stephen A. Smith Show. Appreciate you, buddy. Thanks so much, man. Take it easy.

[Kyle Forgeard]

You're going to be riding. You riding with us or what?

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm riding with you. I'm riding with you. I ain't going against anything you say. I mean, every time I pick, every time I ride with you, I win. So that's how I'm pulling this off. That's what I'm doing.

[Kyle Forgeard]

That's how we do it. That's how we do it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

All right, Appreciate you, man. Thanks a lot.

[Kyle Forgeard]

Talk to you soon.

[Mark Kriegel]

Thank you.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes, sir.

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[Kyle Forgeard]

NBC Nightly News legacy isn't handed down or NBC News.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm Tom Brokaw.

[Kyle Forgeard]

Hope to see you back.

[Mark Kriegel]

I'm Lester Holt.

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[Mark Kriegel]

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[Stephen A. Smith]

Let me transition because the New York Knicks are done and they got a lot of work in the offseason. We got plenty of time to talk about them. Your thoughts about the Indiana Pacers and their chances of winning a championship because they're going up against Oklahoma City Thunder.

[Kyle Forgeard]

They gotta get game one. They better get game one. You remember when we was on Countdown and I said the Denver Nuggets, I said the Minnesota Timberwolves. It was a must win for them in game one. Well, they better get game one. I know if they even think they have a chance in this series. You know why? Because game ones are fill out game, right? So the Thunder, they haven't played a team like the paces, a team that like to get up and down, a team that spreads the floor. A lot of the guys that majority of their team could shoot the three point shot at a high clip. They haven't. So now all of a sudden Dagno, he has to go in his bag a little bit. I'm interested to see what type of lineup he's going to throw out there, who he's going to put on Pascal, Seattle, Sekam. But game one is the most important game of the series for the Pacers, if they don't get game one, they're going to lose this series in five. Because by game two, the Oklahoma City Thunder are going to figure you out. And once they figure you out, it's a problem defensively. So you going into game one in the fil out game, you really gotta have. You gotta have to really stress that to going into the, going into the second half of game one, you need to be up by like 15, 16 points on the score. Other than that, your ass is grass.

[Stephen A. Smith]

How elite is this Oklahoma City Thunder defense compared to defenses that we have seen throughout NBA history? And what makes them so good defensively?

[Kyle Forgeard]

You saw. I didn't say you saw it up close in person.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I saw it.

[Kyle Forgeard]

It's one of the best defensive teams that we've seen in the history of the game. And people keep asking me, who will win this 2025 or this 2012 team? And I keep saying, I believe it will go seven games. But I would give the nod to the 2025 team because of that depth. I don't know if I've ever seen a team this deep, especially at the perimeter position, that have a bunch of dogs and could defend. Yes, we know about Luke Dortz. I saw you earlier today make some great points about Alex Caruso and Casey Miles coming in off the bench. But we gotta, we gotta remember, hell, SGA and J Dub Dubrovna's not no scrubs defensive like they defend at a high level. So when I'm watching them and I think about my 08 team with the Boston Celtics, who was also considered one of the best defensive teams ever, you know, step foot on the floor, I'm like, bro, these dudes are just different. They're different, man.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And I'm looking at them right now and it, it's scary because I, I look at Lou Dortmund. This brother's a linebacker playing basketball. He's a linebacker playing basketball. I saw Julius Randle, and this brother didn't put a form out there. He just used his chest and Randle couldn't move them. Randall, 6 8, Randall, powerful and couldn't move this brother. And I'm thinking about Halberton and all of this noise about Halberton. Her brother can play. He's not overrated. I don't know who these players were that labeled him overrated. He's not overrated. The brother can play, make no mistake about it. But this is a different beast. This is a different animal. This is a different challenge that's coming his way. And I, I ain't going to lie to you. I don't know how equipped Hal Burton is to handle this, to be quite honest with you. It's going to be interesting to see.

[Kyle Forgeard]

You saw those 18 points per game throughout this. These playoffs. Yeah, that ain't gonna cut it. That's not gonna cut it. Against OKLAHOMA CITY THUNDER, 18 points a game. Gonna be just swim. He's gonna have to elevate his game even more and say he's gonna be. Have to be consistently, if they have a shot, 25 to 30 points a night. And I don't see it. You know what he averaged in his two games against the Thunder this series this year in a regular.

[Stephen A. Smith]

What?

[Kyle Forgeard]

He averaged 11 points, bro. Oh, bro. He averaged 11 points against OKC. Against OKC. Now, again, you know, I'm waiting on him. He didn't have his special moments. We just saw him take over four quarters. But you did. You're dealing with a different beast. Here's the one thing that I'm looking at closely. Who is going to go at Pascal Siaka? Because if you talk about putting Luke Dortz on, Tyrese Halliburton to start, is Chad Holmgren gonna be the one on Pascal Siakam, or do you, if you're a coach, do you start J Dub on Pascal Siakam? Do you switch up your start lineup? If you coach diagonal and you. You go small with Chad at the five, and you bring in Alex Caruso early, and now you have your defense set. I mean, it's gonna be interesting to see.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm interested in seeing it as well. I'm praying that we're gonna have an interesting series. I mean, if we got to go to cities like Indiana and okc, damn it, at least make it a great series. You know what I'm saying? Go six, seven games. That's what I'm looking at. I know you don't feel that way because, damn it, you loved in Oklahoma City. You should be the mayor. They should give you the key to the city. They gave you a standing ovation. I was standing right next to you, big bro. They gave you a standing ovation in okc. I gotta admit, I was right because I was getting ready to walk to the back with you. I said, let's go. You, like, stay with me, bro. And I didn't know what the hell was going on. And the next thing I know, they got you up on the big screen and the crowd is giving you a standing ovation. How was that, man? How'd that make you feel, bro?

[Kyle Forgeard]

Well, one. Well, one, I'm, I'm thankful that you shared that moment with me. That's number one. Number two, man, it's all love there, man. It been that way. And essay. I had some great years there, right? It was four and a half years. But the things I would see, a lot of people don't realize the things and how invested I was in the community, right? Like with the tornadoes, with Thanksgiving, Thanksgiving, Christmas holidays. Like, my wife and I, we've done a lot in the community and we developed relationships there, man. Where I never bought a house in Boston. I never bought a house in, in Cleveland or New Orleans, but I did own a house in Oklahoma City. And it took me seriously, it took me seven. It took me six years after I left okc. Yeah, six years after I left OKC to finally sell my house because I was thinking about, I was actually thinking about going back there. We was thinking about living there. That's how great. That's how great people are. That's how much love they show.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Hold that thought. Per. Give me one. Give me just one minute. One minute. I got some bills to pay. You know how this goes. We'll be back with the one and only Kendra Perkins in a minute. All right, everybody, listen up. Lola. Big time sports action is happening each and every day. The Stephen A. Smith show wants to make sure you are taking advantage of it all. That's why we partnered with Prize Picks. The best place to win cash while watching sports. The app is really easy to use to make a lineup. All you have to do is pick more or less than a few player stats. Choose from any of your favorite players. Tyrese Halliburton, Shay Gilgis Alexander, Pascal Siakam, all in the same entry. Then sit back and watch. The list is really endless. You can play prospects in over 40 states, including California and Texas. Best of all, prospects will give you fifty dollars when you play your first five dollar lineup. Win or lose, you'll get fifty bucks. So just use promo code SAS and download prospects now. Again, download the app and use code SAS to get $50 instantly after your first $5 lineup. Prize picks hey, hey. Run your game.

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[Kyle Forgeard]

The NBC Nightly News legacy isn't handed.

[Guardian Bikes Advertiser]

Down or NBC News.

[Mark Kriegel]

I'm Tom Brokaw.

[Kyle Forgeard]

Hope to see you back here.

[Mark Kriegel]

I'm Lester Holt.

[NBC Nightly News Advertiser]

It's carried forward.

[Mark Kriegel]

Tom Yamaz is there for us.

[NBC Nightly News Advertiser]

Firefighters are still working around the clock. As the world changes, we look for what endures. We are coming on the air with breaking news right now. We look for a constant and from one era to the next, trust is the anchor. For NBC Nightly News, I'm Tom Yamas. A new chapter begins NBC Nightly News with Tom Yamas evenings on NBC.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You've often said that Shea Gilgis Alexander should be looked at differently. And then last week you came out and you said this is the best play in this in the history of Oklahoma City. Kevin Durant's been there. Russell Westbrook has been there along with various others. But especially those two names. You really, really mean that. I'm talking about you said this before. A championship has been captured. You saying it right now. You didn't say if they win a championship. You've already called Shea Gilgeous Alexander the greatest player in the history of the Oklahoma City Thunder. Why?

[Kyle Forgeard]

Yeah, well, well, number one, third straight season of averaging 30 plus. Okay. Shooting over 50% of the field, which joined your goat and Michael Jordan, right. For his players with most 30 points shooting over 50%. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he said then he goes to win the mvp. Then he goes to win the mvp. I heard you on there too, by the way. Ain't getting into that with you. He wins the mvp. All right. Now you're saying he wins the scoring title her straight year of first team all NBA. All right, now takes the team to the NBA Finals conference mvp. And the way that he's doing it, man, the way that he's doing it, no one can say that this man has underachieved. Right? And I'm just thinking about how he's embraced his culture. No one thought when they made the trade for Paul George said this team would be sitting here some four or five years later and we'd be talking about them making it to the NBA Finals for Kawhi pg. Hell Kawaii pg don't even play together no more. So just for him to embody this whole OKC culture, be like the Face man. Listen, much love and respect to KD and much love and respect to Russia. What Russ done there was, was, was tremendous. Three years averaging a triple double mvp. Katie, him being the mvp, multiple scoring titles, I get all that. But what SGA is doing right now, we're talking about history here. Stephen A. We're talking about. He's sitting at the table. I saw Allen Ives and post something is him, Michael Jordan and Alan Iveson sitting at another seat that we didn't think he was going to be sitting at damnity sitting at that table now and he haven't even completed the mission yet. So imagine when he complete the mission and I think out of all and you, you tell me if I'm wrong, he's going to be this. He's everybody else from Anthony, Elvis, Luca, Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown, Donovan, Mitchell are going to be playing catch up to him because once he complete this mission I believe they're going to win the championship. He's going to enter that room of superstars with LeBron, with KD, with still with Jokic, with Giannis. Cause he's gonna check all the pieces.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And, and the other thing too is that he thoroughly outplayed Anthony Edwards in the Western Conference finals. There's no way, I mean there was two superstars that were going up against one. Another one departed elevating his status. Another departed lowering his status. Even though I love me some ant man but you cannot show up in the game five and you're down 20 in the first quarter, you're down 30 at the half, you're down, you're getting blown out of the building in a closeout game. I know Oklahoma City's A but you still expected more from Ant man than what you got. Let me throw this interesting question by you. 5:20 Jeff Teague 520 podcast said that Shay basically saved the N B A because he reminded everybody at a mid range game instead of everybody just running out there depending on threes. I thought he made a valid point in that regard. Your thoughts about that real quick.

[Kyle Forgeard]

Not agree with him. He, he got us. He, he made us focus and brought us back to reality. Right? Like just when people or the analytics start the mid range game was dead. It wasn't. And SGA reminded us of that because people could talk about he's the free throw merchant and all that stuff. I don't, I don't want to hear all that. Like Richard Jefferson put some stat up. Well, Mr. Jefferson, damn, that was averaging more free throws than SGA out of like two or three seasons of his career right now. That's right over eight. He's, he's, he's getting to the mid range and like we talked about essay. He's legit six six. He's legit six six. So that means he's Kobe MJ height, right? And the separation, the degree of difficulty that he's getting on. Because these ain't just wide open mid range shots. These are contested turnarounds over both shoulders. The wheel, the flash, the up and under, the school layups, the finishing around the basket, right and left hand. He's school playing on, on the right side with the left hand. Tough finish. It's like this man is special. And he had reminded the world that don't fall in love with the tray ball. But see, I say, let me say this to you real quick. Last year when the Celtics won it, they didn't shoot the ball that well from the three in the NBA finals. We forgot that holiday. And those guys started cutting out of the corners because Dallas was trying to disrespect them for us. Knocking down threes. The Celtics was getting to the paint. Jaylah Brown and Jason Tatum was getting to that mid range junction. But SGA just took it to another level. And I think that's the separation between the, between him and Anthony Elvis right now, right? Like Anthony Elvis is either three or all the way to the basket. SGA got everything in between.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Everything in between. Not a three point yet, but God help us all if he perfects three point shooting. And he gets significantly better at that. Lord help the world. Lord help the basketball world. Two more questions before I let you get on out of here. One would be this going back to kd. You know, we saw how the crowd just thundered, no pun intended, when Shea Gilgis Alexander won the league mvp. We also saw, we saw Russell Westbrook come back as a Denver Nuggets get a standing ovation. We saw you and the love that you see as a commentator now as a former player for the Oklahoma City Thunder. And the love and affection. I know for a fact. Cause I was in that city with you everywhere I went. I mean the television stations, the streets, everybody. Big perk, big perk. I mean, Jesus, it's ridiculous, okay? The love that you Received. Kevin Durant is, without question one of the greatest players who have. Who has ever lived. For obvious reasons, he didn't get that applause when he came back to OKC, because he decided to depart after they were up 3, 1 lost. Lost the series to Golden State, and then he took his talents to the Bay Area with Steph Curry and those boys less than a month after losing to them. But I'm looking at the love, and I'm like, damn, this is one of the greatest players to have ever lived. Brooklyn, OKC before that, obviously, Golden State after okc. And now he's in Phoenix and one of the greatest players. I mean, if we don't give him any love, where the hell is he gonna get it from? Have you thought about that at all? And have you questioned whether or not one day Kevin Durant will ever regret leaving okc?

[Kyle Forgeard]

To be honest, I don't. I don't see how he left okcsa. Like, those fans haven't changed. They've been that way. They've been. They've been that way. I remember when. When I was playing, we just used to go on TV and ESPN used to have, like, this. This meter where it was like, man, we can't even hear ourselves. They've been this way. So, again, like, Katie decided to make the choice. The only thing that I wish Katie would do is put his damn pride aside, which we know that's hard for him to do, and just make it right with that fan base and Sam Preston. Here's the question that I want to know that. That I want to know. And I'm excellent Christie. Especially if they win this championship. Like, have you even spoken to kd? Have you and KD even talk since he departed from Oklahoma City? Like, that's a real thing. I want to know, because I know him and Russell Westbrook got a relationship. Every time I look up, Russell Westbrook now got a car dealership out there. He just built some type of park for the youth. He's building up another community, apartments for no, for people on low income. Like, he's invested. He goes back there, right?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Russell Westbrook. Quiet is kept. Russell Westbrook does a lot of special things in the community and both OKC and Los Angeles that people don't know about. He just ain't about that. But Russell Westbrook is a good dude, bro. He could be all. He could come across as abrasive and truculent all he wants to. He does a lot of great, great things in the community. He really does.

[Kyle Forgeard]

My thing is, you're right. And say, but my thing with KD is when he's up, when it's all said and done, what's the place he's gonna call home?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Like, I don't know.

[Kyle Forgeard]

Everyone, everyone has that place. Like, I know, I know Braun, he played with the Lakers in the Heat, but he's always going to say Cleveland was his home. I, I, I just strongly believe that. Right. Obviously. Still, Peter spun his whole damn career with Golden State, and I'm looking at Giannis. Even if Giannis does move on and he goes to another team this one season, he's always going to say he's always going to be remembered as a Milwaukee buck. Who is Katie gonna be remembered as? Just KD or who?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah.

[Kyle Forgeard]

Like, what organization is attached to him?

[Stephen A. Smith]

None. None. Because he didn't show a willingness to want to be attached to them.

[Kyle Forgeard]

I wonder, I'm wondering if Sam, Princeton is even going to retire his jersey.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah. And I tell, well, I think he should, but I don't know if you can, if the audience doesn't want it because the crowd may not want it or what have you. And to me, it's one of them situations where if okc, by some happenstance, doesn't win the championship this year, with all the assets that Sam Presti has available to him, Phoenix would jump at the opportunity to get assets from OKC in exchange for kd. But why would you bring him back to a city that, you know, clearly he didn't want to stay in? And that's why. That's what everybody has told me. So I don't know. Very last question, because I got to get on out of here. Who do you have winning this series and in how many games?

[Kyle Forgeard]

I got, I got, I got OKC and six. I'mma give the pace of some respect that they could get two home games. Right. I'm gonna give them some respect to say that they can win two games at home. Let me say this to you, essay real quick. I haven't told nobody, not even you. I want the world to know that me and the great Charles Barkley has no beef no more. We actually talk and conversate. Yep. So, because I'm sitting up here thinking, and you know how my wife could be, right? She, she be on my ass if anybody, Then she's on my ass with my stuff. And she was like, right. You ever thought, what are you and Barkley taking shots at each other for? Why y' all beefing? And I said, she said, it's just stupid. So I reached out I reached out to the. Our legend, our colleague, our good brother, Michael Wilbourne. I did. And I said, hey, Will boy, Big bro, can you put me. Can you give Barkley my number and tell him to call me? Man, I just think it's stupid. He put us in the group message, and he wrote this whole paragraph and say, both of y' all great friends of mine, two of my most favorite people on the planet Earth. I'm making this introduction, and maybe we can sit down and break bread and eat, go to dinner in Chicago. So I responded. Appreciate it. Appreciate it, big bro. Charles. What's up, Chuck? What's up, legend, man? I would love to sit down with you and break bread. He responded, big Perk, man. Hey, listen, you're doing outstanding job. We shouldn't be throwing shots at each other in the NBA Finals, man. Let's link up and break bricks. So we squashed that beef. That little. That little beef that we had, it wasn't up but some pork chops when we squashed it. That's. That's pork. That's pork. Excuse me one number. Some hamburger meat when we squashed it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Now, you. If you remember, first of all, you did the wisest thing, because nobody. That's why we call Wilbon the Godfather. Because ain't nobody better than bringing people together than Wilbourne. If I ever run for office, he'll. He'll be my secretary of state. That brother does the. I mean, that's just who he is. Secondly, I told you, I've been telling you for the last couple of years, Barkley's a good dude, man. Barkley gonna say what he feels. But a lot of. Most of the times, it's all in fun. And if he disagrees with something, you know, I tell you, he calls me a fool at least once a month. At least once a month. What are you doing? Yes, but. But we got nothing but love for him. And by the way, we're looking forward to the TNT crew coming to espn, man. But listen, I gotta run on out of here, man. I gotta run. I appreciate a big perk. Thanks so much, man. I'll talk to you soon.

[Kyle Forgeard]

All right, I'll see you soon. In. Okay, See, then.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll see you soon. But I'm not rushing it. I'm not rushing it. I'm in a. I'm in a friendly account. I'll holla at you later, man. Thanks a lot. All right, now, speaking. Speaking of that story that Big Perk just alluded to, I got to get to another story. That made headlines throughout the season. That came to an epic conclusion on Saturday night in Indianapolis. And that's the NBA basketball on tnt. Inside the NBA on tnt. Ernie Johnson, Charles Barkley, Kenny Smith and Shaquille o' Neal. Shaq Diesel, along with the live event team broadcast their final game Saturday on TNT. It was the end of a 35 year run of basketball on ENT on TNT. However, inside the NBA will carry on next season with espn. ESPN chairman Jimmy Pitaro came up with the idea to obtain the rights to Inside the NBA and put it on the air as is. So next season and going forward, Inside the NBA will continue to be produced by TNT Sports. And listen, I get the nostalgia, I get the affection that you have for tnt. Listen, they're an institution. We love Ernie Johnson, he's the institution and the fellas are the fellas. But I was so happy Saturday night that they sounded off the way that they did. Pay homage to all the people that they worked with, all the lives that they touched. It's been the best basketball show on television. There is no debate about that. These guys are phenomenal. All of them are friends of mine. So I couldn't be happier that they're coming over to espn. But it is important to note that they're coming over to espn. Just the channel, the same crew, the same production team, the same studio they do it from. The show is theirs. It's just going to A on ESPN instead of tnt. And so while everybody was quick to write the epitaph of the show on TNT is the big deal for them because they had, in Ernie Johnson's case, damn near 40 year relationship with them. I understand that, but please know that if you're the fan base, what you've been seeing from them is what you're going to get. ESPN ain't changing them. They can't change them. Same production team, same studio in Atlanta, same personnel, same producers. It's their show that is what we are bringing to espn. It's just going to air on the channel. But what you've been seeing is what you're going to get, if not better. As Shaq said and even Kenny Smith said, for the purposes of their last show, they cussed, they said we ain't, we ain't around. We coming to do our thing. Yeah. And we can't wait. Honored to have them as colleagues at espn. Honored. But I've known them for many, many years myself. Big perk and everybody else included. Whenever they need us, we'll be there. When they don't need us, they don't need us. It's just that simple. We all got other jobs to do. Can't wait for them to air their show on espn. But what you've been seeing is what you're going to get. So don't think it's going to be any different. Coming up, should Donald Trump pardon Sean Diddy combs if convicted? 50 cent of all people says hell no. I'll get into that ahead. But first, he's a producer, New York Times bestselling author with a new book, Baddest man the Making of Mike Tyson. I'm talking to the one and only Mark Kriegel. He's up next right here on the Stephen A. Smith Show. Don't go away. Welcome back to the Stephen A. Smith Show. My next guest is an Emmy award winning television broadcaster and journalist and a New York Times bestselling author of sports biographies on Pete Maravich, Joe Namath and Ray Boom Boom Mancini. He's out with a new book, Baddest man the Making of Mike Tyson. Please welcome my buddy. I haven't talked to him for a long time, but it's great to see him. The one and only Mark Kriegel is right here. What's up, big time? How are you, man? Long time. How you been?

[Mark Kriegel]

I'm good. It's great to see you too, man. The hardest working man in the sports business.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Just on the grind. Just on the grind, man. Let's get right to this because, because there's a lot that's going on. You are a young reporter at the New York Daily news in the 80s when you were swept up in the Mike Tyson hurricane, per se. How did y' all meet? Let's get that out the way. How.

[Mark Kriegel]

What was that like my first Tyson assignment? Was she the editor? Me up about 4 in the morning, run up to Harlem, go to Dapper Dan's my wheel. What's Dapper Dan's like a club? No, it's a clothing store. Go get up there. And as you said, I got caught up in that, that swirl. A couple weeks later I get a call he torn up the place in Bernardsville. He was living with Robin Givens, right, That I covered his trial, covered his fights. I didn't become columnist until 91. If you remember when we met, we used to talk about basketball. You were covering high schools and I was a city side reporter, man. We talked about like Fly Williams. I'd spent a lot of time in Brownsville as, as, as a police reporter. Anyway, I covered his stuff, but it wasn't until, and I'm ashamed to say this, 2012. And he had been the villain in my column for years, both at the Post and the News. Wasn't until 2012 that I actually looked on him as something different. I covered his one man show in preview in Vegas, and it was not polished up yet. It was still raw. And I listened to it and it was fully confessional and eviscerating. But I found myself, like, holding back tears. And this is a guy I just killed. I was having a bad day, like, well, I got Mike Tyson a bash, and we met right after the show. And I told him about, you know, Mitch and running around with all the Robin craziness. And he says to me, how'd that make you feel? And he was, I think, newly sober and vegan that time or whatever. I said, what do you mean? How did it make me feel? What was that like? And he meant, like, chasing him around, thought about it, and I thought about the. The adrenaline of it. And I told him it was like. It was. It was a form of getting high. And he nodded at me, not disapprovingly, but just in sort of recognition. And to me, that was the day he became, like, fully human to me. Not an abstraction, a real, real guy. And I. I did. The publisher broached this idea, would you do Tyson? Because I owe the publisher money on something else. And the publisher broached this idea and I was like, I do. Hell no. I ain't doing Tyson. Because my. My feeling has always been whether they cooperate with me or not, I don't care, but. But I have to love them. And I didn't love Mike Tyson. I kind of do now, but I didn't then. And I said, no, I ain't doing Mike Tyson. I had torn my hamstring.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So what made. So what made you decide to do it? What made you decide to do it?

[Mark Kriegel]

I thought about him. I wasn't. I tore my hamstring. I'm not in my right mind. I'm thinking about it. A friend of mine says, you can't give money back to the publisher. It's your duty as a writer. I started thinking about, like, who I was then, who I am now. And I thought about that day in Vegas and what the guy had survived. And I wasn't necessarily wrong, but I was pretty pigheaded in vain about a lot of the stuff I wrote in the 90s, not proud of all of it. And I started thinking about what he had survived. Booze, drugs, Brownsville, that. That whole generation of like stick up kids that were but just blown off the face of the earth.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Got it.

[Mark Kriegel]

Stealth fame. He was famous in a kind of way that will kill you. That, you know, that killed Elvis, that probably kill Tupac.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah, but Mark, let me go here, let me go here. We thought we've heard everything about Mike Tyson. Like when you talk about drugs, fame, you know, alcohol, women, whatever it is, you know, we heard it all before in our eyes. What is it about Mike Tyson that we're going to learn in this book that we don't already know? Considering the fact that he was an open book, he was on front street in terms of the fame. We saw him doing his, like you said in Vegas, Broadway and other places. Spike Lee was producing these one man shows. We seem to have known everything about him. What is it that we're gonna learn? Give us a nugget of what we're gonna learn in this book that we haven't already heard about Mike Tyson.

[Mark Kriegel]

I think it could be human. Human, like, you know, there's, there's an incredible loss there that I don't think he can ever feel. I think probably the closest thing he came to filling it is right now. He got his life right with, with Kiki, his wife. But you know, the loss of his mother was some, was a hole he couldn't fill. The relationship with his father. I think that the idea, the way that this fame was constructed, the way he was built as a fighter is still relevant today. He drew 100, 108 million people saw him live stream with Jake Paul. Jake Paul's pretty good promoter, but he could have only done that number with Tyson. The question is why? Why are we addicted to him? Why did he come back? Why was, you know, the third act of a fighter's life is almost inevitably the, the tragic one. He's disproved everything. So I think you're going to find that, that he's a human being in this. And a lot of it has to do with excavating his past as, as an amateur, as a kid. You know, I, I, there are certain things that, that run through this. One of the first people I spoke to was, was his brother, his half brother was running back at Purdue, quit, went off to go find himself. Really bright guy. And you could see certain things like that run through the Tyson family. First, the guy was a great athlete. Second of all, he was really, really bright and he was searching and I think that was, that's not unlike Tyson. The other element to it, I think that there'll never Be another fighter that comes up like this. He had literary cachet before he had street cred. All the, all the writers, some of them great, some of them were like my, My rabbis, my teachers, guys like Pete Hamill. We're so in love with Customato that this fable, cussing the kid that Ustamato was original trainer, took him out of a juvenile pension and saved him. You know, I. I think that there's something to that, that deserves more nuance, that deserves to be, well, deserves to be looked at again. Go on.

[Stephen A. Smith]

What do you believe? Or when do you believe that Tyson, in your eyes, what was the point? When we talk about him being humanized, per se, he talked about needing to be animalistic, needing to be the kind of individual that he needed to be in order to be a boxing champion in the heavyweight division. When do you think the side, you know, where his humanity is being shown? Where do you think it hit? And does the book reveal that? Was it the whole Robin Givens affairs? Was it having to deal with Don King? Was it the fact that he looked at his own mortality, particularly in the aftermath of losing to Evander Holyfield and biting Evander Holyfield's ear? What was the defining moment for the transformation, per se, that you believe is in. Is in Mike Tyson's head, where he reached the point where he said, yo, I can't. I can't be this person anymore. I need to be better.

[Mark Kriegel]

I think, look, this book is the first of two volumes this ends with. With the Sphinx fight. But I think it came. I think the reformation, you know, the final blows came with losing a daughter, marrying Kiki and getting sober. But you talk about, you know, he. He talks about wanting and needing to be an animal. His words, not mine. But the, the irony is that Customado was. And this is, this is why I think the history needs to be re. Examined. Customato was famous for almost a theology of the bully. How do you beat a bully? When, when, when. When Ali was fighting Foreman, he consulted with Customato and it was d' Amato said, you run across the ring and you smack him in the mouth and hit him with the right hand. Okay. The irony is that whether by design or it just happened, Cussed raised Mike to be a bully. There's never been a guy that was that scared, scary. I mean, he was scared too, but the way that he, he used the fear to inflict on other fighters. There's a. There's a passage in the book as a matchmaker, pretty good matchmaker named Ron Captain, and he remembers early in his career, he'd have to push guys out of the dressing room in order to fight Tyson. So somewhere along the line, I mean, Customato was famous for making Troy Patterson the youngest heavyweight champion. Until Mike, until Mike Tyson, no one wanted anything to do with Sonny Liston. But somehow Mike became the Sonny Liston. And somehow the way I think people wanted a Sonny. Listen, at that time, the rules changed. The other thing with cost. Let me just, if I could, one more thing about Cus and this. Mike pushed back on this with me when I said, hey, maybe it's not like the smartest thing in the world. Take a kid who's been in and out of spa, right, and put them under hypnosis and tell them you're going to be a scourge from God. I go, maybe that's not like the way, the way to do it. And I said to me, what Cus was asking you to do was make him live forever. It was a Faustian bargain. Make, make the coach immortal. And he's, and, you know, I think he credits Cusp with saving him. And certainly he goes, well, well, didn't die. Didn't I make him immortal? And yet he did. My question is, at what price?

[Stephen A. Smith]

At what price? And that's a very legitimate question because I got to ask you this, first of all, did Mike Tyson authorize this book? So he did not.

[Mark Kriegel]

I don't.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So you had these books like that.

[Mark Kriegel]

I mean, we, we spoke a couple times to get some ground rules. He was not right. To me, he was very generous, you know, never been antagonistic. And you know, when people, typically, what would happen is people call, let me see if it's okay. I said, go call Kiki. She'll tell you if it's cool or not. And most of the time it was, yes, we have the same, we have the same agent as it, as it happens. But anyway, I have to answer your question. No, but, but, but he was giving me everything I, everything I needed.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That, but that's what I'm wondering. So if he's giving you everything that he need that you needed to write the book on him, why wouldn't he authorize it?

[Mark Kriegel]

I mean, what, I mean, I don't want to be in, in business with him. I mean, I don't, I've never asked anyone. In other words, like, like, for instance, I want to do a book about Joe Namath. And I understand, like, like Joe thought of it in his world as, as a, as a licensing deal. He wanted money. He want, I don't Want to be in business. Maravich had passed away. Mancini cooperated fully. I. I had no expectation that Mike Tyson is going to. Understood, retell his life, you know, for Mark Kriegle for free. I just was like, hey, let me do what I got to do. And he was okay. And that was more than I could have ever asked.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Totally understand. Totally understand. Did Mike Tyson ever speak about the Michael Spinks fight? Because if you remember, I know you remember this. I remember this. That I believe it was Butch Lewis, the late promoter got arrested, so I think it was him. Spinks was in the locker room crying because he had to come out and fight Mike Tyson. But Mike didn't know that. And he was punching walls because he thought that Spinks was, you know, using it as a delay tactic, when in fact, it was Spinks was scared to death. Did Mike Tyson ever talk about that at all?

[Mark Kriegel]

No, no, no. It. It ends. It ends on that. That's a pretty well known incident. But he does. He does put his hand. He does put his hand through the wall, waiting. But there was a controversy because Butch Lewis started some stuff, thought he would get in Mike's head. Okay? And right Bush. Lewis comes back there and says, retape. It wants him to retape, because I am retaping anything. I'm God. And it gets into a whole thing with the New Jersey Athletic Commission. Yeah, there were reports that Spinks was scared. By the way, Spinks was like, no chump. Spinks was a great, courageous fighter. It was only.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Mark, you're talking to me. You're talking to me. Mark is a light heavyweight that moved up. He wasn't a natural heavyweight. Come on, Mike.

[Mark Kriegel]

No, no, he wasn't. But hold up. But here's the thing. Eddie Fudge had a plan. Mike fades after six rounds. Stick and move. Stick and move. You have to be disciplined. And Butch Lewis, the genius that he was, goes right across and tells Michael, listen, man, forget that, man. You got to get your respect immediately. And that's what Spinks does. And that was. I mean, look, it was only a matter of time anyway. But Spinks runs across, tries to throw a right hand, and he just gets smoked because he went to engage immediately. He listened. He listened. Instead of listening to Eddie Futch, you know, he might have had a shot for a little bit.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Mark Kriegel. I gotta get my glasses because I don't see what the hell you saying in that regard. I didn't see Spink walk over to the ring and try to engage Mike. He looks scared from opening tap. I mean, he wasn't on his bicycle, but I'll be dead if he tried to engage in Mike tight with Mike Tyson. Come on now. I didn't see that.

[Mark Kriegel]

I'm not saying he wasn't scared. I'm not saying he wasn't scared. But he does go to engage him and he tried. He tried. Even when he tries to get up, he comes right back after him and he's throwing the right hand when he receives the coup de grace.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Got you. Last question because I got to get ready to go. And I can't wait to see this. I can't wait to read this book. I'm going to ask you this question in the end. Who is Mike Tyson today and is he happy?

[Mark Kriegel]

Happier than he's ever been, Happier than he's ever been. And for the first time in his life, he's loved. That's not anything that I could have imagined. I think the great victory and this is where people like I had been his consistent detractors or haters and people who adored him and even Mike himself could agree on. He was never supposed to be long for this world. His doom was like, that was the safest bet. You know, if you were going to bet Mike Tyson's life expectancy, you were going to bet the under. And here he is, he's below. And I think that's, that's really the beauty of the story. And it's a destination that, I mean, no one I know could have imagined.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Wow. Mark Kriegel, the baddest man. The Making of Mike Tyson is out tomorrow, June 3rd, wherever you buy your books. Mark Krieger's Good to See you, man. It's been a long time, man. You take it easy, all right? All right. One only. Mark Creek right here with Stephen a. Coming up, 50 Cent Fitting says there's no way in hell Donald Trump should issue a party for Sean Diddy Combs if convicted in his federal sex trafficking and racketeering trial. All that and more coming up next. This is the Stephen A. Smith show. Don't go away. Welcome back. Now let's get to the latest on Sean Diddy Combs federal sex trafficking and racketeering trial. A former assistant testifying under the pseudonym Mia was back on the stand facing cross examination for Combs defense team. Meanwhile, Curtis 50 Cent Jackson spoke out this weekend about the trial and any potential pardon Combs could receive from President Trump. 50 went to social media following these comments from President Trump last Friday when asked about Diddy in the trial. Take a listen, please Back when you.

[Kyle Forgeard]

Hosted the Apprentice, you mentioned once in 2012 that Diddy was a good friend.

Of yours back then.

He has since found himself in some very serious legal trouble. Would you ever consider pardoning him?

[Kendrick Perkins]

I. Well, nobody's asked. You had to be the one to ask, Peter. But nobody's asked. But I know people are thinking about it. I know they're thinking about it. I think people have been very close to asking. First of all, I look at what's happening, and I haven't been watching it too closely, although it's certainly getting a lot of coverage. I haven't seen him. I haven't spoken to him in years. He used to really like me a lot, but I think when I ran for politics, he sort of. That relationship busted up. From what I read. I don't know, he didn't tell me that. But I'd read some little bit nasty statement statements, and the paper, all of a sudden, you know, it's different. You become a much different person when you run for politics and you do what's right. I could do other things, and I'm sure he'd like me, and I'm sure other people would like me, but it wouldn't be as good for our country as we said. Our country is doing really well because of what we're doing. So I can't. It's not a popularity contest. So I don't know. I would certainly look at the facts. If I think somebody was mistreated, whether they like me or don't like me, it wouldn't have any impact on me.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Now, here's what 50 posted on Instagram this week. And after those comments, quote, Donald doesn't take well to disrespect and doesn't forget who chooses to go against him while working tirelessly to make America great again. There is no room for distraction. He would consider pardoning anyone who was being mistreated. Not did he. Combs said some really bad things about Trump.

[Kyle Forgeard]

Out.

[Stephen A. Smith]

It's not okay. I'm gonna reach out so he knows how I feel about this guy. End quote. First of all, let me say this because I love me some 50 cent. I love what he's doing. I love what he's doing. On Stars Power, you know, the sequels. Power Book Ghost, which is my favorite. Power Book Force with Joseph Socorro plays Tommy Egan. I love that. I love Raising Canaan. You saw what I had, you know, you, you, you saw. I had the star Patina Millers on the show. She's phenomenal. I love that show. I Love everything that's. That 50 Cent is doing, even though he's still. I'm sure he's gonna still make some music or whatever, but I just think he's phenomenal. I think he's phenomenal executive producer. I think he's an incredible talent, and I think he is the kind of person you do not want against you, because this brother will troll you forever. I mean, he will hit you where it hurts. Ain't no doubt about that. And he clearly has no love for Diddy. My whole point is Trump's willingness to pardon diddy, potentially. Whatever 50 Cent feels, it shouldn't be based on whether Trump.

[Kyle Forgeard]

What. What.

[Stephen A. Smith]

What did he has said about Trump. It should be based on whether Trump things that thinks the. The charges against him are excessive, the crime that he's being accused of, if he were to be committed of those federal crimes, how valid they are, and whether or not the time served comes into consideration, that clearly is not going to be the case. I mean, if it's one of those situations where President Trump ended up pardoning P. Diddy. P. Diddy's on trial now. He hasn't been convicted yet. He's been in jail for a few months. But with some of the things that he's been accused of, sex trafficking and racketeering. As the government continues to make its case, we got to hear what the defense has to say in response to those allegations, those charges, those assertions that the prosecution has made against him. Ultimately, if you want to look at him right now, clearly he's an individual that nobody wants to have anything to do with. When you consider the video and how it revealed how he was abusing, physically abusing his ex girlfriend, Cassie Ventura, when you hear the assistant give her testimony, when you hear the things that folks have alluded to, when you hear about the details about what he coaxed Cassie Ventura into doing, these are very heinous, disgusting things to say the least. I'm not gonna even go into detail. They're heinous and disgusting, you know, and so when you look at it from that standpoint, you know, why are you thinking about pardoning him before he's even been convicted? Let him get convicted, and if he's get. If he gets convicted, let him spend some time in jail. And then after that, if you want to consider pardoning him, your decision should be based on that, not on whether or not he has said nasty things about the president. So. And 50 Cent, I would just like to know for 50 cents specifically what the beef is with Diddy. Whatever that may be. I don't know. I don't follow it like that. He does not like this, man. He. He feels whatever it is that he feels about Diddy. This is not my lane, ladies and gentlemen. I don't follow hip. The hip hop. I like my music. I like listening to hip hop. But I don't follow the storylines that come associate. I know nothing of the history between 50 Cent and Diddy, but Diddy has me wanting to find out. I'm sorry, 50 Cent has me wanting to find out what that history is because most people would just not say anything, you understand? If Trump says what he says, all right, no matter what their feelings are, they ain't gonna get involved. Did 50 Cent don't give a. You don't give a. He literally is saying he's going to reach out to Trump to remind Trump of the things that P. Diddy has said about him for the sole express purposes of making sure that Trump doesn't pardon Diddy in the event that Diddy gets convicted of sex trafficking and racketeering. That's what 50 Cent is sworn to do. And I gotta admit to you, that's wild. Damn, you know, you got an enemy there when a man want to go out of his way to contact the president, you know, and clearly he has some kind of inroads where he can get to President Trump. So President Trump can hear him. He's basically saying, yo, brother need to go down. Brother need to go down and stay down. That's what he's saying. So if Diddy didn't have enough problems, having 50 cent on your ass is a problem. That's a problem. That's the only thing I could peel from it at this moment in time. I would love for 50 Cent to tell us what exactly is his disgust with Diddy, other than the disgust we all feel from the videos we already saw? It would be real interesting to see that. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. That's it for this edition of the Stephen A. Smith Show. Hope you all enjoyed it. I know I did. I'll be back at you in a couple of days as I get set to cover the NBA Finals. It's gonna be a doozy. At least I hope it will be. I hope it goes six or seven games. I hope it's no sweep. I hope there's no gentleman sweeping five games. I hope it's a real series. But Indiana is gonna have to show up in order for that to take place. Until then, thanks again to my man, Big Perk Kendrick Perkins coming on the show. And thanks again for Mark Kriegel to coming on the show as well. I will be back with y' all in a couple of days saying same bad times, same bad channel. Until then, peace and love Everybody. God bless.

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