Full Show Interview: Stephen A breaks down controversial book by Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson.

Summary

Summary of "The Stephen A. Smith Show" Episode: Full Show Interview on "Original Sin" by Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Stephen A. Smith Show
• Host: Stephen A. Smith and iHeartPodcasts
• Episode: Full Show Interview: Stephen A breaks down controversial book by Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson
• Release Date: May 28, 2025

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Introduction

In this special edition of The Stephen A. Smith Show, host Stephen A. Smith ventures beyond his usual sports-centric discussions to delve into the politically charged revelations presented in Original Sin, a controversial book authored by Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson. The book scrutinizes President Joe Biden's cognitive health and alleges a deliberate cover-up within the Democratic Party to conceal these issues. This episode aims to unpack the book's key findings, the authors' investigative journey, and the broader implications for American politics and media.

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Discussion of the Book "Original Sin"

Stephen A. Smith introduces the episode by highlighting the significance of Original Sin, emphasizing its best-selling status and the widespread discourse it has generated beyond traditional media circles. He states:

"It seems to be necessary intel for all of us to find out. Is it? Does the book really tell us something we don't know? Or does the book just highlight what we all knew?" (01:24)

The book alleges that President Biden exhibited signs of cognitive decline years before his reelection campaign, with a concerted effort by his inner circle to mask these lapses from the public and media.

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Authors' Investigative Journey

Stephen A. Smith welcomes the co-authors, Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson, to discuss their motivations and experiences while researching the book.

Jake Tapper explains the impetus behind the book:

"We started writing the book on November 6th, the day after the presidential election, because in some ways, this book is answering the question of how Trump was able to come back and what the Democratic Party did to allow it to." (16:34)

He elaborates on the depth of their investigation, mentioning interviews with over 200 Democratic insiders and revealing that Biden's cognitive issues were more severe behind the scenes than publicly acknowledged.

Alex Thompson adds:

"The vast majority over at least over 150, I felt, were much more candid than they were before or they were finally felt free to talk without fear of retribution." (52:11)

The authors share that their research uncovered a systematic effort to limit Biden's public engagements and control his narrative, raising concerns about the integrity of democratic processes within the party.

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Media's Role and Responsibility

A significant portion of the discussion centers around the media's failure to adequately report on Biden's cognitive health issues in real-time, leading to a delayed public awareness that only surfaced through Original Sin.

Jake Tapper addresses criticisms of the media:

"The only agenda was to find out what happened. Our only agenda was to write this book." (36:22)

He acknowledges the shortcomings but emphasizes their commitment to uncovering the truth despite facing backlash from both political spectrums.

Alex Thompson reflects on media accountability:

"Reporters too often are defensive to criticism and blame the lack of trust on attacks from conservatives and liberals. That's part of it, from disinformation. But I often felt that there was not enough self-reflection." (59:27)

This introspection highlights a broader issue within the media landscape regarding bias, accountability, and the pursuit of unbiased reporting.

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Implications for the Democratic Party

The authors discuss how Biden's alleged cognitive decline and the party's attempts to conceal it have adversely affected the Democratic Party's credibility and electoral prospects.

Jake Tapper states:

"We see this as a developing story. This is the first draft and an ongoing story... the Democratic Party just went through this tumultuous four years and ended up, you know, more unpopular than they have been in decades." (52:04)

He argues that the party's failure to address internal issues transparently has led to diminished trust among voters, hindering their ability to win future elections.

Alex Thompson concurs, adding:

"Democrat after Democrat saying, he's as sharp as ever. He's in command... that's not just about Joe Biden and his aides. It's a systemic issue." (44:25)

The conversation underscores the necessity for the Democratic Party to engage in self-examination and reform to regain public trust.

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Impact on Media Credibility and Future Prospects

The episode delves into the repercussions of the book's revelations on the perception of mainstream media and the potential long-term effects on journalistic integrity.

Jake Tapper acknowledges the erosion of trust:

"All I can do is that, and I understand that there are people who are just never going to believe it." (62:09)

He discusses the challenges faced by legacy media in adapting to changing consumption habits and addressing inherent biases to rebuild credibility.

Alex Thompson reflects on personal accountability:

"We didn't get somebody that said we should never have done this. You don't even want to take them seriously because they're acting juvenile." (18:35)

This highlights the personal and professional toll on journalists striving to uncover and report critical truths.

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Stephen A. Smith's Final Thoughts

In the concluding segments, Stephen A. Smith offers his analysis of the interview and the broader implications of Original Sin. He emphasizes the importance of journalistic integrity and the need for both media and political parties to operate transparently.

"Do your damn job. That applies to me, that applies to Jake Tapper, that applies to Alex Thompson, that applies to everybody in the media." (73:12)

He advocates for an informed and skeptical electorate, suggesting that accountability on all fronts can steer the nation towards a more robust democratic framework.

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Conclusion

This episode of The Stephen A. Smith Show provides a comprehensive exploration of Original Sin, dissecting its revelations about President Biden and the Democratic Party. Through incisive dialogue with the authors, the show tackles pressing issues of media responsibility, political accountability, and the future of American democracy. The conversation underscores the necessity for transparency and integrity within both media institutions and political entities to restore public trust and ensure the health of democratic processes.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

1. Stephen A. Smith (01:24):

   "Is it? Does the book really tell us something we don't know? Or does the book just highlight what we all knew?"

2. Jake Tapper (16:34):

   "We started writing the book on November 6th, the day after the presidential election... to find out what happened behind the scenes."

3. Alex Thompson (52:11):

   "The vast majority over at least over 150, I felt, were much more candid... without fear of retribution."

4. Jake Tapper (36:22):

   "The only agenda was to find out what happened. Our only agenda was to write this book."

5. Jake Tapper (62:09):

   "All I can do is that, and I understand that there are people who are just never going to believe it."

6. Stephen A. Smith (73:12):

   "Do your damn job. That applies to me, that applies to Jake Tapper, that applies to Alex Thompson, that applies to everybody in the media."

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This detailed summary encapsulates the pivotal moments and key discussions from the episode, providing listeners and non-listeners alike with a comprehensive understanding of the topics covered and the insights shared by Stephen A. Smith, Jake Tapper, and Alex Thompson.

Transcript

[iHeart Podcast Announcer]

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[Host of Made for This Mountain]

The Made for this Mountain podcast exists to empower listeners to rise above their inner struggles and face the mountain in front of them. So during Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional well being and then climb that mountain.

[Co-Host of Made for This Mountain]

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[Host of Made for This Mountain]

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[Stephen A. Smith]

What's up everybody? Welcome to this latest edition of the Stephen A. Smith Show.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

Coming at you as I love to.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Do at the very least three times a week over the digital airways of YouTube and of course iHeartRadio. As always, I'd like to pause for a moment to thank my subscribers, my listeners, my followers for supporting the show. When you consider the fact that we've had millions of downloads over iheartradio over the last few months, not to mention having eclipsed 1.22 million subscribers on YouTube, it's impossible for that to happen without your love and support for the show. I can't thank you enough. I appreciate it and I'm sincerely grateful on behalf of myself and my staff. Keep the love coming and I'm going to keep on coming. Today's edition of the Stephen A. Smith show will not include sports. It's somewhat of a special edition of the Stephen A. Smith show because we're going to have on co authors of a book entitled Original Sin about President Joe Biden, his cognitive decline, along with other things that occurred in the book. It's necessary to talk about this because obviously it's not just the New York Times, it's not just a best seller, but it's also one of those situations that's the scuttlebutt going on around the country, outside the world of sports. Of course, according to the book Original Sin, we had a president that didn't want to step away. Whether it was due to pride, ego, the combination of both, along with other things he didn't want to step away. He had people in his inner circle who did not want to step away. And according to this book, there was a genuine cover up that was taking place within the corridors of the most powerful house in the nation that our country, its democracy, one could easily argue was being, was on the verge of being compromised. And so when you take that into consideration and you hear that, particularly when you hear President Trump being accused at every turn of being an existential threat to our democracy. And it turns out there were folks on the left who were willing to jeopardize our democracy, justifying it through their concerns about him, an imminent administration or an impending administration, and they use that as an excuse to justify their actions. This book obviously is must read. It would explain why it's popular. It's already a bestseller. Why? The co authors, Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson have been around the circuit promoting the book. It seems to be necessary intel for all of us to find out. Is it? Does the book really tell us something we don't know? Or does the book just highlight what we all knew? But the Democratic Party worked diligently to make sure we didn't verbalize, lest we wanted to pay a price for it. These are all the things that I can't wait to talk to Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson about. And I'm about to do just that next right here on the Stephen A. Smith Show. Back with more in a minute.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

All right, folks, I need you all to stop what you're doing and listen up.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You know I love this time of year, right?

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

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[Stephen A. Smith]

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[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

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[Stephen A. Smith]

Run your game. The New York Knicks return to Madison Square Garden for Game five of the Eastern Conference finals tomorrow night as they.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

Attempt to stay alive.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Do five games at least.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

So I'll give you my picks for Thursday night's game.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Let's get to it.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

First up. Will Jalen Brunson score more or less than 30 and a half points?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes, he will, because he has to. Plain and simple is do or die. You want to break up Elimination.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

Next up will call Anthony Town, score more or less than 20 and a half points, assuming he's healthy enough because that knee hurt.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

But if he's healthy enough and he's.

[Stephen A. Smith]

On the court, yes, he will.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

Why? Because he has to. It's elimination time. Next, will, the pace is Tyrese Halliburton score more or less than 22 and a half points.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm actually going to say less for this. I think that Halliburton, the brother's skilled. He can ball. He's not overrated all of this stuff. But I don't think this night is going to be his night. I can see him getting 18 to 20, you know, probably 10 assists, something.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

Like that, but more than 22 and a half points?

[Jake Tapper]

No.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I think the Knicks going to take them out in this game and I think the Halliburton and them is going to save their energy for Game 6 in Indiana. That's just me.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

Finally. Well, Pascal Siakam score more or less than 20 and a half points.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I think he's going to because I don't think the Knicks have an answer for him. He can score from outside, he can score from inside. He can post you up. He can play with his back to the basket. He could play face in the basket. He's too diverse of a weapon for the New York Knicks to control and to neutralize to that degree. So I'm going to go with more on this. So let's recap. More for Jalen Brunson, more for Karl.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

Anthony Towns, less for Tyrese Halliburton and more for Pascal Siakam.

[Stephen A. Smith]

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[Amy Robach]

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[TJ Holmes]

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[Aubrey O'Day]

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[Amy Robach]

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[Co-Host of Made for This Mountain]

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[Host of Made for This Mountain]

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[Co-Host of Made for This Mountain]

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[Host of Made for This Mountain]

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[Stephen A. Smith]

Welcome back to the Stephen A. Smith Show. I could not wait to talk to my next guest.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

They are co authors of the book Original Sin, President Biden's decline, its cover.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Up and his disastrous choice to run again. Please welcome to the Stephen A. Smith Show. CNN lead Washington anchor Jake Tapper and Axios national political correspondent Alex Thompson.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

Fellas, welcome to the show.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Really, really glad to have you both here.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

First order of business, how would you.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Describe this book tour that you guys have been on? The questions, the kind of tenor that people have been throwing in you guys directions because of this book. Jake, I'll start with you. How's it been for you thus far?

[Jake Tapper]

Well, I guess there's two, there's two different groups. There's the people who are interested in the book which is selling well, and the people who come to our book events and ask questions about what we tried to get to, the, what we tried to understand when we started this book project, which is what happened. How did that, the Joe Biden we all saw on the debate stage in June 2024, how did, how did that person show up? Because it wasn't just obviously we all saw him aging through the years, but a lot of people didn't know he was actually that bad. So how did that happen? Who knew that it was that bad? Who was responsible for concealing how bad it was? That group, I think, has been very responsive to the book and the reviews have been very positive from the New York Times, the LA Times, Washington Post. Then separately, I would say there is a group of people in the political sphere on the left and on the right who have tough questions about the book. From the left it's why are you covering this and not Donald Trump? He's who you should be focusing on. And from the right it's we knew all this. Why are you just telling us now? It was a cover up and the media was part of it. So I would say there's two different kind of responses and we're just taking it all in and we're glad that the book's getting a response.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Alex, what, what has alarmed you most is has it been people asking why now? Why are you not focusing on Trump? Or has it been about the, so the quote unquote cover up that people have tried to surmise that you guys have been a part of?

[J]

Honestly, none of it really surprises me because I covered Joe Biden every day for four years. I was also covering stuff about his age back in 2021 and then especially starting aggressively in 2023. And I have to tell you, the no, you know what about trump chorus was 20 times louder. I know it was for you too when you were talking about these, these issues back in 2023 as well. So that part doesn't bother me. And you know, I do think there's a difference between what some on the right were doing and listen, I mean, I think they have a, I think they are right to feel frustrated with the mainstream media's coverage of the Biden age issue. I mean, I was frustrated by it too. I think Jake often gets unfairly lumped into that big bucket. But I would say that there's a difference between covering, you know, his often gaffes, the way he walked, the stumbles versus what was going on behind the scenes to try to shield that Biden, the Biden we saw on that debate stage, they were trying to shield that from the public, from the Democratic Party, in some cases, from their own staff. So, you know, I think the point is that whenever you do some like tough reporting, especially stuff on something that's this sensitive, you just gotta be ready for the backlash and that's fine.

[Jake Tapper]

Yeah.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Jake, I gotta ask you, when you listen to things that people have been saying about this book, in terms of what do you believe the book has revealed that people didn't know?

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

What are you, I mean, you covering politics the way that you have for so many years, what was it about.

[Stephen A. Smith]

This book that really alarmed you, specifically, that really came out in the book that people didn't realize?

[Jake Tapper]

I think one of the things. So first of all, we started writing the book before we even had a publisher, before we even had a proposal. We started reporting it. And Alex and I were both very surprised to find out that so many people who had not been willing to talk candidly about Joe Biden after the election suddenly were. And we interviewed more than 200 people, almost all of them Democratic insiders, almost all of the interviews were after the election. And what this revealed, what this reporting revealed was that his, his pro. There were, there were like two Joe Bidens. There was the one that presented fine, that was okay in the 2020 debates, that was okay day in, day out, generally speaking. Seemed old, but seemed like, okay, maybe he could do the job. And then there was the non functioning Joe Biden, the one that just lost his way, lost his train of thought. He couldn't come up with names of top aides, had difficulty with dates, like even, just like years. When did this happen? And that non functioning Joe Biden, we found out through our reporting, showed up as far back as 2015, when he was vice president after the death of his son Beau. One top aide said that it was watching what happened to him. His psyche was like watching water poured on sand. And that Joe Biden would show up every now and then. 2017, 2018, on the campaign trail, 2019, 2020. What we found out through our reporting is that the non functioning Joe Biden started really rearing his head much more behind the scenes in 2023, 2024, when there was this aggressive campaign to limit his hours of work, to have him have teleprompters, even when he was behind the scenes doing a small 40 person, 50 person fundraiser, keeping him away from the cabinet, keeping him away from top Democrats in Congress. And the degree to which there was an actual narrative, there was an actual arc to his deterioration was fascinating and upsetting. And the degree to which people saw bits and pieces of it and nobody said anything or very few people said it, I think that was alarming. And I do think, as Alex notes, the coverage of Joe Biden, aging, stumbling gaffes, et cetera, I did some of that. Alex did some of it. Most, most media did. Conservative media did more of it. And I'm not disparaging any of it. But that is different than the investigative journalism we did for this book, which reveals that it was much, much worse than how it appeared in front of the cameras. And that suspicious is suspicions being confirmed is one way to term it, one way to, to describe it. But another way would be it's actually worse. It's actually worse than you think. It's not just he can't come up with the name of this random person or he mistakes two different members of his cabinet. It's, it's the middle of the day and he is having difficulty keeping a train of thought going in a private conversation.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

So with that being said, and I'll go to you on this one, Alex, the impetus, I understand what you discovered upon once you decided to write the.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Book and you're interviewing people, you investigate, you get this new material, you say, wait a minute. Damn, this is a lot worse than.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

We thought it was. But I'm talking about the initial part that made you say, I want to write a book about this.

[Stephen A. Smith]

When did that moment arrive for you guys?

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

I'm interested in knowing that, Alex.

[J]

November 6th, the day after the presidential election, because in some ways, this book is answering the question of how Trump was able to come back and what the Democratic Party did to allow it to. So literally, we started this book on November 6th without a book deal, without any interviews, without any words written. And we turn it in now because we felt it was important for people that are trying to understand how we as a country ended up back with Trump with a second Trump term, that this is a key part of the story. We felt that Joe Biden running for reelection and the Democratic Party going along with it, even though many of them knew better, was one of the central reasons why Donald Trump was able to come back.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Jake, when people look, read this book, they watch you guys promoting this book. I haven't seen many hits coming in the direction of Alex, but in fairness, I've seen issues coming your way, and.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

I want to, and I say in the interest of finish, because I want.

[Stephen A. Smith]

To make sure this is a podcast. It's not national television. You don't have an eight minute segment. So I can say this.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

When I talked and dare I say.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Applauded Megyn Kelly in her conversation with you, it had nothing to do in the interest of fairness to you, it.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

Had nothing to do with how right.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Or how wrong one side was or the other. My point was her articulating how the right felt about this book, about you and your role or lack thereof in the covering of the Biden administration.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

I applauded her for articulating what the.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right was saying to your face because.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

We hear a whole bunch of people saying a bunch of stuff, but then they'll get in front of you and.

[Stephen A. Smith]

They won't articulate it or they'll articulate it in such an acerbic fashion. You don't even want to take them seriously because they're acting juvenile.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

But I thought it was a heated.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Discussion, a very fruitful discussion between you and Megyn Kelly.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

And that was, that is what I was applauding. So I want to make sure that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I emphasize that to you. Having said that, I want to know how do you feel about the attacks that have come your way in terms of senior White House correspondent host on cnn, been covering politics for decades, how in God's name did he not know these things prior to him writing this book?

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

What do you say to people that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Have those kind of questions about you, Jake, at this particular moment in time?

[Jake Tapper]

It's all fair and it. And look, I mean, I didn't go on Megyn Kelly show thinking I was going on Kelly Clarkson show, right? I mean, I knew what I was getting myself into. I knew she was going to ask tough questions. And that was no surprise. I knew the conservatives have questions. I think in some way. Some of it is specific to me. Some of it is more that I'm just an avatar for the legacy media. And I think a lot of people on the right feel understandably, hey, we were aware of this years ago and you didn't cover it, you belittled it. And that's not. And now you want plaudits for coming forward after Joe Biden's already out of office. And I completely understand that argument. I think some of it is specific to me, mainly because of one interview I did with Lara Trump like a few weeks before the 2020 election. And all I can say about that is, pardon me, that our reporting suggested that the cognitive decline started years ago. 2015, 2017, we point out specific moments. 2019 on the campaign trail, he can't come up with the name of his closest longest serving aide Mike Donlon, I did not see that. I saw him aging. I saw him fumbling. I did not see cognitive decline in October 2020. Lara Trump did what she said, aged well. What I said age poorly. You and I are similar in some ways, Stephen, in the sense that we live our lives, we live our reporting on air. Some of it ages well, some of it ages poorly. I don't have to bring up Nick Sirianni and Jalen hurts for you to know that there are a lot of Eagles fans out there who have receipts about you and look right, you make the best judgment you can in the moment. And if you're wrong, you're wrong. And that's what happened with me and Lara Trump. I will say that I was more aggressive asking about age. I asked President, then Vice President Biden, as vice president, if he would pledge to be transparent about his health in September 2020. I asked him about voters thinking he was too old in October 2022. And there are other moments I can point to here and there, but as a general admission, I think that there are very few people in legacy media who, knowing what we know now, having reported this book, who were as aggressive on this topic as we should have been, could have been. And I'm certainly including myself in this. I'm not including Alex. But that said, this also was a cover up. This was the Biden family and a small circle of aides that were not only trying to present Joe Biden in his best possible self with teleprompters and only scheduling events between 10 and 4 for the most part. They weren't only lying to the media, they weren't only lying to the public. They were lying to Cabinet secretaries, they were lying to donors, they were lying to Democratic officials. They were lying to members of the White House staff who were kept away from him. So that said the media, including me, we should take our lumps 100%. But I do think there is a larger issue here, or at least a parallel issue here, of a White House that was hiding stuff from the American people, that was deleterious to the American people.

[Stephen A. Smith]

The problem with that, and I agree with you, by the way, but the problem with that, Jake, is this, when we talk about it, we allude to being dismissive in regards to concerns about Biden's cognitive health. They're not just looking at somebody like a Jake Tapper and saying, well, you know what, maybe he should have known because he's been covering the White House. You're considered an elite reporter. You do have connections. Nobody's accusing you of being in the pockets of the Biden administration or anything like that. I totally support you on that.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

But what I'm saying is I looked at Biden. I don't cover politics.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Really.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

I looked at Biden. I said a year in advance, he ain't right. Something's not there. He's not gonna make it to the Democratic National Convention. The reason I bring something like that up is I totally understand the difference between noticing something with the human eye and being able to factually articulate that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Over the airwaves without finding yourself in trouble. I do understand that. We all understand that.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

The flip side to it, however, is people who said those things were getting.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Excoriated by the likes of conventional media, per se.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

Some people say liberal media, whatever word they want to use, and that's where they look at somebody like yourself, Jake.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And they say, whether it's Lara Trump or anybody else, it's one thing to not report on it more intense, more extensively. It's another thing entirely to look at folks and to be dismissive of them because they had the temerity to point out something they believe you should have pointed out. What do you say to that?

[Jake Tapper]

I don't disagree. With the exception of the Lara Trump interview almost five years ago, I didn't do that. Once it became, you know, when you get new information, most sane, rational people absorb it, and if it goes against what they thought before, they change their mind. And I began changing my mind about President Biden and his acuity, I'd say around 2023, which is according to our reporting, there are three moments, according to top aides and people close to Biden, where there really was a deterioration. First was 2015, when he had the horrible death of his son beau. Then in 2023, when his son Hunter, who has been battling addiction and having legal troubles, his plea deal fell through. And then in the summer of 2024, when Hunter was tried and convicted on gun charges. And what's significant about it is not just that Hunter was having legal trouble, but that Hunter was voicing his belief that Republicans were trying to drive him into relapse as a former crack addict, and that Republicans were trying to get him to kill himself. And poor Joe Biden. And I do feel sympathy for him in this, having lost his wife and daughter in that car accident in 1972, having lost Beau in 2015, thought he was going to lose a third son, maybe to suicide, maybe to overdose. And that really had a horrible effect on him. So my only point is, I get it that people in the mainstream media were dismissive even after the election of 2020. I don't think I was one of them. And in fact, after the, her report comes out where the special counsel says, I can't try this guy, he's not prosecutable. I can't get a conviction to a jury. He'll present just like a. What's the language?

[J]

Well meaning man with a poor memory.

[Jake Tapper]

Yeah, well meaning elderly man with a poor memory. I can't convict him. There were a lot of reporters that were like, you know, calling for Robert her to be hung in the town square. I was not among them. I thought that seems perfectly logical to me. So, yeah, I mean, I get it. Again, some of it's personal, the things I have said and done that I regret. Some of it is things that I did not say or do, but I'm being accused of it. And a lot of it I think is very understandable. Resentment at having been proven correct, but having been dismissed at the time. But I'm just here to say I didn't dismiss it at the time. I understand why people are mad about that. I don't. I mean, I didn't excoriate you. I thought you were right when you said it. I thought Bill Maher was right when he said it and David Ignatius of the, of the Washington Post was right when he said it and Maureen Dowd. Now you guys are commentators and I'm more of a traditional journalist. So I wasn't saying it like that, but I didn't disagree. I wasn't booking you on my show at the time. Maybe in retrospect I should have booked you. You know, that that's something that we could, we can talk about. But that said, I do think there's a difference between people who are commentators saying, look at what we're seeing. We see this, we see this, we see this. Which, you know, I was running some of the same clips too. And the kind of investigative journalism that, that Alex and I did after the election to find out what was really going on, because it's, it's far worse. It's far worse than it even looked in front of the cameras.

[J]

You know, I do think that some people do make Jake into an avatar for the mainstream media. And what you said is right, that the voters were ahead of where, where elite media is. There's an old saying that Washington is the last to get the news. The voters were ahead of Democratic elites. Democratic elites ignored them. Mainstream reporters also didn't cover it nearly as aggressively. And to Your point? Some dismissively. But I will say I think Jake getting lumped in with the reporters that were carrying the Biden team's water just really isn't fair. I mean while if he was part of some grand conspiracy, why did he start booking me on his show when I was doing this aggressive reporting? And so, you know, this book was Jake's idea and I just think he is, I think some of while he has acknowledged some of the commentary and criticism is fair, I think some of it really isn't.

[Stephen A. Smith]

First of all, Jake is absolutely right. There's a difference between being a, you know, more of a traditional reporter and being a commentator. Even though we were usually comment reporters before we became commentators. These absolutely right. So nobody's going to dispute that there. But I wanted to go to you, Alex, in regards to this.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

I want to know what he have you taken and what would you classify.

[Stephen A. Smith]

As fair or unfair to you as a co author for this book based on your personal experiences, not just you witnessing what Jake's going through, but you yourself as well.

[J]

I mean, I would say you noted that I haven't taken as much heat during the book tour and that's true. But that's also because I took a lot of heat in 2023 and 2024 while I was reporting this. The White House basically said I was lying, said that my reporting was not true. You know, they certainly trash talked me to my peers. It was definitely at times like a bit lonely. Which again is sort of why I stand up for Jake here because Jake had my back and thought my reporting was good. But not all reporters did. And I got same as you did when you were talking about it, the amount of now do Trump. What about Trump? But I was just like I'm talking to sources, they're saying this is true. So I think, you know, some of my, the heat and the hatred was backloaded, if that makes sense.

[Jake Tapper]

And Stephen, if I could just add one thing. The what we're going through is it's we expected this. We as Hyman Roth says in the Godfather, this is the business we've chosen. We knew that, you know, there would be attacks from the left and the right because of this book. Although, I mean, I think what's rewarding for us is that the, the degree to which the book has kind of changed the conversation where it's now just accepted among the Washington elite. Biden shouldn't have run for reelection. Biden was addled and, and, and you know, the idea that he could have been president until January 2029 is, is insane. That's rewarding. The people I feel sorry for are not me and Alex. We're, we're fine. This is, you know, we get to talk to Stephen A. Smith. I mean, this is, this isn't such a bad life. Are people we feel bad for are Robert her, who after he did his report was smeared by the White House Attorney General Garland was smeared by the White House. Her couldn't find a job.

[Stephen A. Smith]

True.

[Jake Tapper]

He's got a wife and kids. I mean, he has a job now, but it took him months and months and months. Wall Street Journal reporters Annie Linsky and Siobhan Hughes, who did a story in June 2024 about behind the scenes Biden is showing sign of slipping. And that was, you know, we hadn't, I wouldn't call it easier, but we, but it was after the election, it was easier to get people to talk than Annie and Siobhan. Their experience in May and June of 2024. And Annie and Siobhan were garrotted by the White House who accused them of taking the orders from Robert Murdoch. They had Democratic senators attacking their reporting on Twitter. It had to have been traumatic. That is the stuff that. Those are the people who the attacks. I feel really bad for. Dean Phillips, a Democratic congressman, tried to get Democratic governors to run against Joe Biden because he, he saw what you saw, except even worse behind the scenes. And none of the Democratic governors would do it. And I mean what the world might look like if they had. And Dean Phillips ran and the Democratic Party basically declared him Persona non grata. And there was a big effort to keep him off of ballots. He had to sue in the Wisconsin Supreme Court just to get on the ballot for. This is the party that pro democracy. And so I mean those are the people that I feel really bad for and those are the people who are heroes in the book.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Jake, you'll appreciate this. I got more questions. Don't go anywhere, Alex. Don't go anywhere. I got bills to pay. It's the Stephen A. Smith show right here over the digital airwaves, YouTube and of course iHeartRadio. We'll be back with more in a minute.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

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[Stephen A. Smith]

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[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

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[Amy Robach]

Run your game Amy Robach and TJ Holmes here Diddy's former protege, television personality platinum selling artist Danity King alum Aubrey o' Day joins us to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation.

[TJ Holmes]

Aubrey o' Day is sitting next to us. Here you are as we sit here, right up the street from where the trial is taking place. Some people saw that you were going to be in New York and they immediately started jumping to conclusions. So can you clear that up? First of all, are you here to testify in the Diddy trial? Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise based on her firsthand knowledge from her days on making the band as she emerged as the breakout star. The truth of the situation would be opposite of the glitz and glamour.

[Aubrey O'Day]

It wasn't all bad, but I don't know that any of the good was real. I went through things there.

[Amy Robach]

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[Stephen A. Smith]

Welcome back to the Stephen A. Smith show, right here with Jake Tapper and, of course, Alex Thompson from Axios. Jake, let me get back to you on this question before I get into a more comprehensive look at the Democratic Party itself and the role the media plays in what has been transpiring. If you talk to people on the right about this book, they say it's Jake Tapper trying to ingratiate himself with the MAGA community because they need that audience. That's what they want. He's smart to do that, but that's what he's trying to do. You talk to people on the left, in all likelihood, who feel betrayed by the book because, oh, my Lord, it's calling out the Biden administration and what was transpiring at that time. They say this book is a money grab.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

What do you say to people on.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Either side of the aisle who make those accusations about you at this particular moment in time?

[Jake Tapper]

Now, our only agenda was to find out what happened. Our only agenda was to write this book. And look, if somebody. If it. If somebody on election Day or the day after Election Day had announced, you know, that Bob Woodward had announced he was going to write a book, getting to the bottom of what had happened behind the scenes, or if, you know, any other journalists whom I respect were, I would have gladly just waited and read it. But the truth of the matter is, nobody was writing it. And Toni Morrison once said, if somebody. If there's a book you want to read and no one's written it, you need to write it. And I take that advice. And I reached out to Alex kind of impulsively and just said, like, let's do this together, because I admired his Biden connections. His Biden sources, I should say, not connections. And I had a feeling that as a team, we could really do some good work. He also, metabolistically, is similar. We're similar. And you're part of this insane crew also, Stephen. Like, just like, work, work, work, work, work, work, work. So, I mean, I. I had a feeling that we would. We would work well together. And it's not about appealing to maga. I certainly, you know, people say, why aren't you covering Trump? I cover Trump two hours every day, five to seven, on cnn. And Alex does the same for Axios. And I wouldn't say that our coverage is flattering. It's just. It is what it is, critical analysis and news reporting. So that's not accurate in terms of the left. It's a money grab. I mean, that's not the case. It's not. This is. I don't. I don't want to get into where my money comes from. But, you know, CNN is my main job, and that's where my main source of income, by far. Very few people write books to make money. You write a book because you want to say something. You want to have a legacy, you want to uncover something. You have a message. You want to get out there. I don't think people write books about Joe Biden to make money. We are gratified that people are buying this book.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

That's a good point.

[Jake Tapper]

But I don't think. I mean, the idea that I would do this for money is. Is. It's just. It's silly and not true.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm just pulling the Jake tap. I'm just asking the questions that people want to know.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

That's where we are.

[Jake Tapper]

I got it.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

I got you, Alex. And this question is really for both of y' all. And I understand the position that y' all in. So if you can't answer it and it's tricky, I get it. But I'm throwing this out to both of y' all in the book you allude to, essentially because Biden and his.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Days were ending, like at 4:30, because.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

It was time for him to go to bed and you had other people essentially running the country. I think the number was five, if.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I had read correctly.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

I must ask y' all, what would have been worse, five people who were.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Not elected to run this country, basically circumventing our Constitution and what have you. And ultimately running the country or what we're looking at right now in y' all estimation.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

I'm talking about as reporters, as people.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That knowing the system that we live in, if you have a system in place where. Or if you have an administration in place where the person that we elected is not doing anything because they're essentially incapacitated, even though that's not what you guys said or what folks think we're dealing with in this day and age, which is better for the country? I'm talking about that in terms of bypassing the process or going through the process and having what some people, at least half of America may not want, or nearly half of America may not want.

[J]

I mean, the way that you framed it, neither is Ideal, which is why the Biden's decision to run for reelection was so reckless and risky, given his age and the people around him. Essentially making the country choose between someone that many considered an existential threat and, you know, at sometimes like a maniac was how some people view him. And then a guy that clearly was not up to doing the job four more years it was. And the way that the Democratic Party just went along with it until. And the only reason they ever like, you know, became and pushed him out wasn't out of bravery, it was out of self preservation. And so, you know, I do think, though, there are still tens of millions of Americans that would prefer Joe Biden at 100 years old to what we are living in right now. And I think that's also part of the reason how they justified going along with this until it was too late.

[Jake Tapper]

Alex talked to somebody before Election Day, and this is the one interview that's in the book that didn't happen after the book where. Well, just tell them, tell them about the, about the person.

[J]

Yeah, I mean, this person basically articulated what you said, which is that all Joe Biden had to do was win. Then he only had to occasionally show proof of life and the people around him would run the country. And their justification was when you, first of all, you, you're, you're not bringing back Trump. And when people vote for president, they're also voting for the people around them. And a lot of people, some people in the Biden world, that is how they justified keeping this going.

[Jake Tapper]

I'm just saying it's crazy. I mean, that was somebody who worked for the White House before the election, before Biden dropped out, saying like, it's no big deal, he just needs to show proof of life. That was the term, proof of life. I mean, that's, that's so offensive. And Stephen, and I say this because you've been on my show, we've talked about you possibly running for president. Yes, we have, and like the idea that Biden thought only he could beat Trump and that he could be president for another four years. But I. Both of those are not facts, and they both seem odd to me, but the idea that he would deny the Democratic Party an opportunity to have a primary system that would produce among possible candidates, whether you or Gretchen Whitmer or Josh Shapiro or Gavin Newsom or whoever, that he would deny that to the party. So that this small group of people, including him and one cabinet secretary, said to us that it was, you know, at best, he was a senior member of a board that ran the country. It's anti Democratic, really. I mean, truly. And I am surprised that more people who are thinking about running for President in 2028, this is not. I'm not talking about you, so don't get mad. But that more are not talking about this. I'm talking about the senators and governors that more are not talking about this. You've been talking about this for a long time because it just seems like it so obviously was what was a misdeed. You know, I would ask this question.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Though, because to me, it almost seems like we're letting the Democratic Party off the hook by looking at Biden and a few of his cohorts and saying, okay, it was them. I'm thinking about Kamala Harris. If you're Biden, you knew he was deficient.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

You let him go on that debate stage.

[Stephen A. Smith]

June 27, he exposes himself.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

Little more than three weeks later, he backs out of the race. There's no time for a primary. So as a result, you automatically elevate Kamala Harris as the vice president to be the Democratic nominee. He assists in that regard by giving her his immediate endorsement the same day. But this is the same Kamala Harris who couldn't even make it to Iowa in 2020, that wasn't that popular as the vice president. And nobody thought if she had to endure a primary, would have come out as the Democratic nominee for the presidency of the United States of America. So I'm like, it just seems a bit odd that we can look at Biden and a few individuals and stop there, as opposed to looking at the entire apparatus that is the Democratic Party and saying there's a lot of hands.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That were in the mix in this ordeal.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

Am I wrong in feeling that way?

[J]

I mean, you can go back.

[Jake Tapper]

I mean, roll the tape.

[J]

Democrat after Democrat saying, he's as sharp as ever. He's in command. He's in control. He's sharp as ever. He's completely engaged, total confidence. And you are absolutely right. This is not just about Joe Biden and his aides. If you read, you know, if people read the book, they will see story after story after story of Democratic senators and leaders seeing Biden behind closed doors privately having worries and then still publicly going out and saying he's fine. Democrats like to mock, rightly. You know, that Republicans say one thing about Donald Trump privately and then go out and salute and say dear Leader publicly. Well, the Democrats are guilty of the exact same thing with Joe Biden.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

So with that being said, Jake, when on many, many occasions You've articulated the thoughts from the left saying they believe, they believe that Trump was an existential.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Threat to our democracy.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

One could easily argue who's the greater threat.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Him, who in this particular instance won a fair election.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

He won a popular vote, won the Electoral college vote, et cetera, et cetera, even though he didn't win a popular vote in 2020. Is it him that's the biggest threat to our democracy or is it what the Democratic Party tried to pull off?

[Jake Tapper]

I don't know. I certainly think that what the Democratic Party did in so many ways was undemocratic, small d Democratic in hiding his true condition, in trying to make sure that there wasn't any sort of competitive primary, even to the degree that they made. They tried to devalue the New Hampshire primary and the Iowa caucuses and made South Carolina F first just because they thought it would be less embarrassing for Joe Biden. I mean, there's so many things that the Democratic Party did to try to boost this man who was who so many voters, including Democratic voters, had serious concerns about in terms of the degree to which Trump is an actual existential threat to democracy, which is not anything I've ever said, but something that Democrats say. I mean, I think he certainly pushing norms. I think he's certainly, you know, testing limits. It's, you know, my job is to cover what he does and leave the commentary like that to others, whether it's a Democratic senator or a never Trump Republican. But I certainly think that what I certainly see a lot of irony in the sense that, or hypocrisy in the sense that the party of democracy was actually in so many ways trying to prevent the voters from having an actual choice and having all of the facts about the man that they were entrusting with the most powerful job in the world.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And just for clarification purposes, just to our audience, I want to make sure everybody knows I certainly wasn't accusing you of saying that Trump was an existential threat to democracy. That was, that was people doing. I just want to make sure that I was clear on that. But in light of what you just, in light of what you just articulated, Jake Tapper, how does I mean when people look at mainstream media, again, regardless of what the truth may be, in your investigation, talking over 200 people finding out the things that you found out, regardless of that, people are still going to look at you being attached to mainstream media and bringing in the question whether or not mainstream media, because of what your book revealed about the Democratic Party and whether or not they're ever going to recover for an election, meaning the midterms in 2026, meaning the election in 2028, the believability factor, the factor of authenticity that some would surmise that the Democratic Party once had in the palm of their hands, particularly in comparison to Trump. Trump has now gone by the wayside. Do you believe, based on what your.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

Book has reported with Alex Thompson, that the Democratic Party have severe concerns about.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Its future in light of the information that was revealed?

[Jake Tapper]

I mean, yeah, I mean, you've come on my show and said that you're concerned about the Democratic Party. I mean, I'm somebody who wants there to be two, if not more fully functioning political parties where debates can be discussed and hashed out. And it's on the level. And I mean, I've seen, you know, I didn't like what happened on January 6, 2021. That was obviously very upsetting, very anti Democratic. Violently so.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes.

[Jake Tapper]

And I don't like what the Democrats did when it came to Joe Biden and hiding his limit, the limitations of his abilities. I do think that Democrats, obviously their approval ratings are in the toilet. And I think that one of the reasons they are is because Democrats just spent four years arguing that the border was fine, inflation was not a problem, and Joe Biden was up to the job. And I think that four years of that message was really harmful. I think there are other reasons too why Democrats have damage themselves, not just Democrats, by the way, but institutions in general, the media, health organizations, universities, etc. Having to do with the failure to acknowledge certain, certain realities, whether it's having to do with riots after the George Floyd murder or having to do with COVID restrictions that, you know, shutting down schools and, and on and on and on and on. I think there are a lot of reasons why there are crises in, and confidence in the news media, in Democratic Party, in institutions. And I think all of it needs to be hashed out, acknowledged and discussed. I mean, so. But in terms of the Democratic Party, it's tough to win elections if people don't have faith that you actually care about them or are listening to them. And I think the Biden deception is one of the reasons people have lost confidence.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

And I'm also wondering about it along.

[Stephen A. Smith]

The lines of that answer. Jake, I'm walking out because I wrote down a couple of things. I'm talking, you know, the reporting on Biden's auto pin usage. I mean, people have brought that up. I'm thinking about people questioning the pardons that he executed I'm thinking about him approving hundreds of billions spent between November 6 and January 20 before he departed office. People are wondering who ran the country.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

All of these things are questions that they had before. But now the book has brought to.

[Stephen A. Smith]

A more illuminating light.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

And was that the goal? Was that one of the goals you.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Two had in writing this book, that to highlight and really bring a focus, a microscopic focus on some of the decisions that were made before he walked out of office? In light of what we've learned, I.

[J]

Mean, we see this as a developing story. This is the first draft and an ongoing story. I mean, if anything, we still have many more questions since we turned in the draft. And, you know, I think the metaphor I use is, you know, I think the Democratic Party just went through this tumultuous four years and ended up, you know, more unpopular than they have been in decades. And I think our goal was to, you know, basically hold up a mirror and tell sort of as comprehensive a story. It's part of the reason why almost all of our sources are Democrats. We didn't rely on Republicans because Democrats, at least some of the honest ones, were doing a lot of soul searching after the election. And so that was our goal.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

Alex, answer me this. Give me a roundabout number. How many of those Democratic officials did you find, to be honest?

[Stephen A. Smith]

We talked at least some of them that were honest.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

Huh.

[J]

I would say the vast majority over at least over 150, I felt, were much more candid than they were before or they were finally felt free to talk without fear of retribution.

[Jake Tapper]

Although I will say, Stephen, and we never got somebody that said we should never have done this. I can't believe we did it. In retrospect, it was a mistake. How arrogant we were. I mean, even, you know, there was a top aide, a top White House aide, who acknowledged to me that this short 10, 15 minute interview I did with Joe Biden in October 2022, he would not have been capable of doing in October 2023. That admission was stunning to me, but it did not come with. And we really made a mistake. We shouldn't have run him. What an error. I can't believe we did. It didn't come with that. It came with, you know, and. But we thought that he was the only one that could beat Trump, blah, blah, blah. So I think that most were telling the. The truth as much as they had come to terms with it themselves. But I do wonder where they will be in a year, because, you know, I heard from one of the people that one of the Democrats I interviewed for the book who gave me one of the most shocking revelations. And I checked in and how are you doing? And you know, they're, they're upset, but they're not upset at us. They're not upset at the book. They're just upset that it happened. And now everybody has to, everybody's talking about it. So I still think that there's, there were, I think they're still working through a lot, don't you?

[J]

Yeah, there's gradations of honesty.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

Jake, you said in the Megyn Kelly.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Interview that the Biden White House did not like you. Why was that?

[Jake Tapper]

Yeah, so, I mean, first of all, I don't think that there's been a White House that has ever liked me.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Bush, Obama, badge of Honor, by the way.

[Jake Tapper]

But go ahead, Trump, Biden. You know, I mean, I, I don't, they never, they never have. But I think specifically they thought, I think, I think specifically they really started to dislike me after my coverage in August 2021 of the calamitous withdrawal from Afghanistan, which, you know, I've written a book about Afghanistan. I've been to Afghanistan twice. It's a topic I care about a great deal. I had done a two hour documentary interviewing almost all the commanders who served there. And I knew a lot about the subject and was really shocked at how incredibly poorly the planning had been and incredibly cavalier the president was with the decision. So I think that that's probably when they started to dislike me the most. And, you know, but again, like, I'm not, I'm not here to have any White House like me. The best I can hope for is they tolerate me. I, you know, and the same with Alex. I assume that was also one of the reasons that, that I was interested in booking Alex on my show and also teaming up with him is because the way that the Biden White House treated him reminded me of the way that the Obama White House treated me, which was they respected what I did, but hated my guts.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

You know, as I read, as I.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Talked to you guys about this book and I see the kind of things that are being said about you, one of the things that I had to ask is looking at you and looking back and when you said you apologized to Lara Trump, I'm wondering, did you ever feel compelled while researching this book is that I don't want to use the word apology. I want to ask instead, do you believe there's a level of fairness, that there's a level of contrition that you should feel when it comes to the whole MAGA right itself, in terms of how they perceived, whether it was cnn, MSNBC, or anybody that wasn't a conservative network was covering them, and how the perception was that the left was left off the hook.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

How do you feel about it when.

[Stephen A. Smith]

People talk about it in that light, in terms of whatever emotions emanate from you in regards to those kind of feelings from folks on the right?

[Jake Tapper]

It's a complicated question. I mean, the answer is that, like I understand and have been saying for a long time, I understood specific grievances that President Trump had with the media or with whatever. I mean, back in the early days of 2017, when Buzzfeed printed the Steele dossier, which was full of nonsensical, outlandish charges, I said on air, like, I understand why. I mean, you can, you can Google it. I mean, people covered it at the time. But, you know, I understand why he's frustrated. I would be, too, that I didn't think it was responsible to publish the Steele dossier. And, you know, I can't say that I have a blemish free record on anything. I mean, I look back at Iraq and the weapons of mass destruction, and I was skeptical then, but I wish I had been more skeptical. I wish I had been more brave about it. But as a general rule, I mean, I don't. I look at the way I covered, you know, the president. Some of the trials of the president, I thought were, you know, I think it's. I think it is problematic when people run for prosecutor and promise to go after a specific politician. And both Letitia James, the Attorney General of New York, and Alvin Bragg, the District Attorney, New York, both of them did that. And that, to me is problematic because you're not saying this is the offense and we need to bring justice to this perpetrator. You're saying, I'm going to go after him. And I think that there was a degree to which that was tolerated by the media writ large. I mean, I did note it at the time, but like. And when Trump does the same thing and he's the president, so it's also a different degree. People perceive it as more problematic. If the question is in general, do I think that there is a liberal bias to the media? The answer is, yeah, sometimes. I mean, sometimes I do think that there is an unfair bias, but I think there are all sorts of unfair biases. It depends on the reporter, the outlet, the time, the experience, the context. I think that there's a bias against people who, you know, who are in poverty. There is not enough coverage of poverty because. Because not that most reporters are rich or not, but just there isn't enough coverage of it. And that's a bias. I think sociologically there are biases. They're probably, you know, they're probably percentage wise. Maybe journalists don't own guns as much as the average American populace does. I think there are all sorts of biases. But as a general note, do I think the media should be. Do I understand why conservatives complain? I do sometimes. Not every time, but sometimes. Absolutely.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Alex Thompson, you showed up at the White House Correspondents Dinner and basically you were awarded that night and you took the liberty of talking to the media and basically saying that the media bears some responsibility as to why the faith in the institution itself is at an all time low. I want to know what role did the research of this book play in your willingness to go out front and say what you said as opposed to you feeling this way long before the book came out? Could you talk about that for a second?

[J]

I certainly felt that way before the book came out. I think reporters too often are defensive to criticism and blame the lack of trust on attacks from conservatives and liberals. That's part of it, from disinformation. But I often felt that there was not enough self reflection. Now the book definitely played a huge part because it also made me realize how much I had also missed of this story, even as I was aggressive on it. And I felt, not only. And then I also realized, like, not only had I missed, but like a lot of us missed. And I thought it felt even stranger to win an award for covering for, for my coverage of, you know, the Biden, Biden's decline when I knew all the reporting we had in this book, like I was winning an award for something that I felt that we fell short on. And so that was what gave me, gave me the courage, even though I was pretty terrified to do it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Are you guys mindful of the possibility that this book shines a light on what media overall, as an institution hasn't been doing in terms of being up and on top of the information in real time as opposed to coming forward in the aftermath of everything that's transpired? In other words, this book came out after the election. There are people that have looked at Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson. They say, we appreciate the book, we appreciate the information in the book.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

But then we would have liked to have known this before the election. It would have been nice. That's not your fault. I get it. I'm not blaming y' all But I'm just saying people would ask that question. And as a result, for the critics.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Out there against the Fourth Estate, which is the media, for those out there who don't know, they would use this.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

As fuel to point a more skeptical and cynical eye at the media moving forward. Which feeds right into Trump's lines about fake news, fake news, fake news. Have y' all thought about that at all? And if so, what kind of thoughts do you have? I'll go to you first, Jake.

[Jake Tapper]

I mean, definitely, I definitely we've thought about it. But the bottom line is this. And if people don't believe us, they don't believe us. And there really isn't much we can say. But metabolistically, as journalists, the way that Alex and I are wired is to break news as soon as we can before anybody else can do it. If we had known, if either one of us had known that Joe Biden did not recognize George clooney at that LA fundraiser in June 2024, and that shocked Clooney to his core and shocked others in that circle who saw it, and that that was the reason why Clooney wrote the op ed he wrote after the debate. I mean, I would have, I would have given a finger to break that story, like at the. Like, literally, I would have given a finger to break that story at the time. That is such a big scoop. That is a huge story.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

But, Jake, do you respect the fact.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That there are people who would look at cnn, whether it's you, it's the entire network, or it's the entire, what they label as leftist media, and they would challenge that. They would say they don't believe that you would have done that. What do you say to that?

[Jake Tapper]

I mean, there's nothing I can say except I would have, I mean, you know, look, there is a lot of mistrust in the media, in the legacy media. There's a reason for that. Some of it is our own fault, the, the legacy media. Some of it is the fault of political operator operators on the left and the right who don't want anybody to believe things that are being said, negative about their side. Yeah, there are entire institutions, they're the biggest culprits. And there are, you know, people whose job it is literally to so distrust in the media for whatever reason, whether left, right, center, you know, that that is their job. There are entire industries around making sure that people do not believe things that Alex writes or that I say on tv. But that said, all I can control is my part of it, which is the part that owns up to when we don't cover something good enough, well enough, tries to get to the bottom of stories, tries to be fair as a fallible human being. All I can do is that, and I understand that there are people who are just never going to believe it. There are people who think that Fox News is too left wing and that and they turn on OANN or Newsmax or whatever. I mean, that's why we live in a democracy with a choice of media outlets. All I can say is that I do try my hardest. Most journalists I know try their hardest to be fair and accurate. But there are also competing pressures. Getting a story out as soon as possible, breaking news, having people watch, having people read, having people click. And you know, the media makes mistakes and we are responsible for some of this distrust.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Alex, you heard what Jake just said. You're co author of this book. You showed up at the White House correspondents dinner, you said what you said. What kind of impact or better word would be reaction from your contemporaries have.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

You received and do you anticipate receiving.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Moving forward in light of the, of this book?

[J]

Well, I'd say, you know, right after I made the speech at the dinner, Jake, Jake called me and was like, basically gave me a, that, you know, attaboy, which I really appreciated. Oh, you were great contemporaries. You know, some contemporaries didn't like it. They thought it was, you know, it's, it's sanctimonious.

[Jake Tapper]

Yeah, we're sanctimonious. Yeah.

[J]

So, you know, but honestly, it was like one of those things where, and I, it's one of those things in life where I felt like I had to say something even if people weren't going to like it just because I would have felt odd if I hadn't.

[Jake Tapper]

But you pointed the finger at yourself. You didn't just say, this is a room full of people who didn't cover this well enough. You said none of us covered this well enough. Which I think is, it's just undeniably true. Which is not to say that all these sources were there right, for the plucking and we were ignoring them. They were not. They would not talk to us until, in this depth of candor, until after the election. But that's also not to say that it couldn't have been done. I mean, it's all a hypothetical now. But this was a calamity. It was playing out in front of everybody to see and it's just hard to imagine that more could not have been done. That's all.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

Well, I totally, I totally get that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And I think people feel that way. But because you guys are the co authors of this book, I think they're looking at both of you and they're saying instead of saying there's more we could have done done, they're saying there's.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

More you should, you guys could have done. That's how they're doing this right now. You see what's going on out there. And so with that being said, Jake, one of the things we've all had to report on is that particularly since.

[Stephen A. Smith]

The election, not necessarily with your show.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

I don't know the number, I don't have that in front of me. But across the board of Legacy Media per se, the ratings have dipped and people have questioned whether or not the media is ever going to repeat, recover.

[Stephen A. Smith]

From some of the things that were.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

Not reported, some of the things that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Were not said, etc. Etc.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

How mindful are you of that?

[Stephen A. Smith]

And are you fearful that things are going to get worse before they get better or is that not a concern of yours at all?

[Jake Tapper]

I think that the issue of declining ratings, which is an industry wide issue, not just news on tv, it's on radio, it's on websites, it's on newspapers and magazines, is a tectonic shift that bigger brains than mine are trying to figure out how to adapt to. People like you or Megan Kelly or others running your businesses in your way are definitely represent the present and future of media. I think the question is how do more traditional brands and people who do what Alex and I do, how do we fit into that space? I think that's more the issue. Certainly, you know, media missteps, News missteps doesn't help. But I think the issue is more people who are cutting cords, people who are on their phones, people who are watching streamers instead of network instead of broadcast television. I think that is more of the shift and that is something that I'm very mindful of. It's something that I'm mindful of when I write a book. I am mindful of the fact that I am competing not just with other authors, I am competing with Words with Friends, I am competing with Netflix because I know that there are probably a quarter of the people reading the book are reading the book on their phones or iPads. And that's part of this shift. That is something that I'm mindful of and think about all the time with my team in terms of like, come on guys, we need better visuals or come on guys, what's like, what are we trying to say here we need to grab attention. We need people to understand why this is important. And so I think it's more. It's a larger. It's a larger issue, one that's confronting everybody that's present, that's producing any sort of content, whether Amazon, you know, streaming series, whether they're. It's a Reacher or pbs, you know, Masterpiece Theater or whatever. We're all trying to figure out how do we get to where people are on their streaming services at home and on their phones.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Got you. Listen, I know you guys got to go. I have to go as well. You promised me an hour. You gave me an hour. I could have talked to you about this, but book for another hour. And Jake, I could have talked to.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

You for a lot longer than that about the. The whole industry in and of itself. But listen, thanks for your time.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I. I really enjoyed the conversation. I appreciate y' all staying on board and answering all my questions. Alex is a pleasure to meet you, Jake. I've seen before you.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

I have not.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Other than watching White House correspondence.

[Jake Tapper]

I'm gonna put you back on my show, Stephen, because I got some.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

This is a tough. I'm not running.

[Jake Tapper]

I got tough questions for you.

[iHeart Podcast Announcer]

Next.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

Running?

[Stephen A. Smith]

I don't think so.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

I. I'm not running because I'm not running. Because I'm not running. That's why I'm not running. Okay, thanks a lot, man. Take it easy.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Jake Tapper, Alex Thompson, authors, co authors, Original Sin. It's available wherever you buy your books. Thanks, guys. Take care of yourself.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

Coming up, I'll give you my thoughts on what we just heard.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's next right here on the Stephen A. Smith Show. Don't go away. Welcome back to Stephen A. Smith Show.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

We just heard from Jake Tapper and.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Alex Thompson, co authors of. Of the book Original Sin. Now I want to take a moment to share my thoughts on the conversation. This isn't some gotcha moment. I'm trying to catch somebody in a lie. Whatever. I'm going to ask the questions that people want to ask. I saw Jake Tapper's and Alec Thompson's interview with Megan Kelly. Obviously, she leans heavily to the right and she had her issues with Jake Tapper, which I thought were astutely and adroitly done by her. Kudos to her. I'm a little bit different. I'm more curious than anything else because this is a lane I'm venturing into, not a lane that I've lived in for decades. And I thought that the questions that needed to be asked, were asked, and I thought that he answered them. I think there's a lot for Jake Tapper to be concerned about from the standpoint that he's a co author of this book. And there's a lot of cynics and critics out there who believe that he had to have known more before the election as opposed to learning all of this after the election. He had an answer for that. I think that legacy media as we know it to be is in a world of trouble because people believe that it has an agenda. He swears that's not the case and that hasn't been the case. And had this been something that he was aware of prior to the election, you're damn right he would have reported it because it would have been good for him, it would have been good for the network, it would have been good for his career, it would have been good for the industry. Alex Thompson, we heard his speech at the White House Correspondent's Dinner from months ago, and he held the media accountable, talked about the media, included himself, by the way, and how the media needed to do a better job. So what do we appeal from all of this? It's very, very simple. Do your damn job. That applies to me, that applies to Jake Tapper, that applies to Alec Thompson, that applies to everybody in the media. It's not about friendship and it's not about making enemies. It's about getting as close to the facts as you can possibly get to and being honest up front and authentic as to where you stand and why with an audience. So even if they disagree with you, they at least know that you're true and authentic. And as a result, you've expressed yourself.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

They can be cynical or critical about.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Anything that you have to say. But if you're honest and up front.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

And you stand on that and you're.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Not taking sides, then you're good to go.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

However, having said all of that, there is no way to get around what.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm about to say. When you consider this book original sin and what the Biden members rather of.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

The Biden administration, along with other people in the political apparatus, that is the Democratic Party, when you could take into consideration what several folks, if not many, were willing to do to conceal the cognitive decline that President Biden was enduring.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Nobody comes out looking better than Donald Trump and the maga R right. Because the things that they were saying, the things that they were accusing the.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

Left of, the things that they were accusing legacy media of, whether it's true or not, they look right. They look like they were on point.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And you know what that means. You can look at it in two ways. You can look at it as a decline and a disintegration of our fourth estate, which is the media in this country.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

You can look at it that way or you can look at it with a smile on your face like I.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Am looking at it, which is this. We got a two party system. Maybe it'll open the door for an independent party.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

Maybe, just maybe, if you're black, it doesn't open automatically mean that you got.

[Stephen A. Smith]

A side with the Democratic Party.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

All of a sudden. Now, because there seems to have been corruption, we've accused it of being on the right. We now know courtesy of this book that it was on the left where you had a Democratic Party willing to circumvent the democratic process in this country just to get their candidate and this side into office to keep them remaining in power. Since that is now a reality that has been articulated verbally and in a written word with this best selling book, Original Sin, by Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson of Axios. Because that's now a matter of record.

[Stephen A. Smith]

We get to look at things a little bit differently.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

And as a result, that skeptical eye.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Expands and we're able to look at.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

The left and the right with the.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Cynicism and the skepticism both may deserve. Which means in order to get our.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

Vote, both parties have to work for it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You don't get to take advantage and take for granted anybody anymore.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

That in and of itself can steer.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Us towards a better path for the United States of America moving forward. And if that's what ends up happening.

[Co-Host or Guest on Stephen A. Smith Show]

Even though the road through that path was a bit rough.

[Stephen A. Smith]

In the end we'll all be better off for it. That's what I walk away from this interview with Jake Tapper and I, Alex Thompson, feeling that's my perspective on it. Hopefully it'll be yours, too. That's it for this edition of the Stephen A. Smith Show. I got a conference finals game in the National Basketball association to cover tonight with the Oklahoma City Thunder and the Minnesota Timberwolves. So I will be back with y' all in a couple of days. Until then, this is the one and only Stephen A. Signing off. Until then, peace and love to everybody. God bless.

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[Co-Host of Made for This Mountain]

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[Host of Made for This Mountain]

Listen to Made for this mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[iHeart Podcast Announcer]

This is an iHeart podcast.