Full Show: Stephen A gives an update on the Trump vs Musk blow-up. Recaps NBA Playoffs and drills down on the Diddy Trial.

Summary

The Stephen A. Smith Show – Episode Summary Release Date: June 6, 2025

In this dynamic episode of The Stephen A. Smith Show, host Stephen A. Smith delves into a range of hot-button topics spanning politics, sports, and high-profile legal cases. Featuring insightful discussions with conservative host Will Kane and renowned journalist Roland Martin, alongside legal analyst Ryan Smith, the episode offers a comprehensive look at the latest developments shaping the national conversation.

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1. Feud Between President Donald Trump and Elon Musk

The episode kicks off with Stephen A. Smith addressing the escalating feud between former President Donald Trump and billionaire entrepreneur Elon Musk. The conflict centers around Musk's vehement criticism of Trump's signature tax and immigration bill.

Key Highlights:

• Musk’s Criticism: Musk took to platform X (formerly Twitter) to condemn the bill, stating, “This massive, outrageous, pork-filled congressional spending bill is a disgusting abomination. Shame on those who voted for it. You know you did wrong” ([02:30]).

• Trump’s Response: In retaliation, President Trump criticized Musk’s influence on the election, claiming, “Without me, Trump would have lost the election. Dems would control the House and the Republicans would be 51 to 49 in the Senate” ([04:05]).

• Escalation: Musk escalated the dispute with allegations tying Trump to the Epstein files: “Donald Trump is in the Epstein files. That is the real reason they have not been made public. Have a nice day, djt” ([05:15]).

Discussion Insights:

• Opportunity for Democrats: Stephen A. posits that this feud presents a strategic opening for Democrats to gain support from individuals like Musk, who may be disillusioned with Trump’s policies. “This is an opportunity for Democrats… this man has the pockets to help Democratic candidates who are centrist regain some level of power” ([07:45]).

• Will Kane’s Perspective: Will Kane echoes concerns about the fallout, emphasizing the negative impact on the Republican Party and American politics. “When the world's richest man and the world's most powerful man clash, it was inevitable” ([15:32]).

• Roland Martin’s Take: Roland Martin criticizes both Trump and Musk, highlighting the chaos their feud introduces into the political landscape. “Donald Trump is the twice impeached, criminally convicted felon con man in chief” ([43:49]).

2. Potential Impact on the 2026 Midterms

The conversation shifts to the implications of the Trump-Musk feud on upcoming midterm elections.

Key Points:

• Republican Concerns: Will Kane expresses skepticism about the Republican Party’s stability, suggesting that internal conflicts could jeopardize their standing. “Senators like Rand Paul are trashing the bill, creating a quandary for the GOP” ([30:23]).

• Democratic Opportunities: Roland Martin underscores the Democratic Party’s chances to reclaim seats by capitalizing on voter dissatisfaction with Republican policies. “Polls show many people are unhappy with national Democrats, but go down ballot, that changes” ([56:54]).

• Strategic Focus: Both guests agree that Democrats should focus on local races and articulate clear policies to connect with disillusioned voters, especially in swing districts like North Carolina and Georgia. “Democrats have to articulate what your agenda is” ([54:24]).

3. NBA Playoffs Recap: Indiana Pacers vs. Oklahoma City Thunder

Transitioning to sports, Stephen A. provides an enthusiastic recap of Game 1 of the NBA Finals, highlighting the Indiana Pacers' impressive comeback victory over the Oklahoma City Thunder.

Highlights:

• Historic Comeback: The Pacers overcame a 15-point deficit in the final nine minutes, with Tyrese Halliburton securing a buzzer-beater with “0.3 seconds left” ([93:51]).

• Player Performances: Shay Gilgeous Alexander shined with 38 points, while Halliburton’s late-game heroics were pivotal. “Shay Gilgeous Alexander was sensational… Tyrese Halliburton showed why he’s a rising star” ([93:51]).

• Future Games: Smith anticipates a competitive series, expressing optimism about the Pacers' chances to contend for the championship while recognizing the Thunder's challenges in closing tight games. “This is a series to pay attention to because don’t think for one second that they can't beat OKC” ([93:51]).

4. Sean "Diddy" Combs Trial Update

In a segment dedicated to the high-profile federal trial of Sean "Diddy" Combs, legal analyst Ryan Smith offers a detailed analysis of recent courtroom developments.

Key Developments:

• Witness Testimonies: A key witness, referred to as Jane, testified about drug-fueled sexual parties and alleged coercion by Combs. “Jane says she felt pressured to have sex with other men” ([74:10]).

• Judge’s Intervention: The judge warned Combs about inappropriate interactions with the jury, noting his nodding gestures during testimonies. “The judge threatened to exclude Combs from court if he kept trying to interact with the jury” ([76:02]).

• Defense Strategies: Smith discusses how the defense aims to discredit witness testimonies by presenting evidence of Combs' whereabouts during alleged incidents, thereby undermining their credibility. “The defense provided receipts and asked if he could be in two places at once” ([75:34]).

• Prosecution’s Case: Emphasis on a pattern of behavior indicative of a RICO conspiracy, showcasing a systematic approach to coercion and control over individuals. “They are trying to build the RICO case based on these patterns” ([80:16]).

Insights:

• Impact of Witness Credibility: The defense’s ability to prove Combs was elsewhere at the time of alleged incidents significantly weakens the prosecution’s case, potentially swaying juror perceptions. “That damages her testimony completely” ([75:34]).

• Future Proceedings: Smith anticipates aggressive cross-examinations from the defense in upcoming testimonies, aiming to dismantle the prosecution’s narrative. “The defense is going to press hard because they know what’s getting out there” ([86:06]).

5. Aaron Rodgers Joins Pittsburgh Steelers

In a surprising sports news update, Stephen A. announces that NFL superstar Aaron Rodgers has signed with the Pittsburgh Steelers, marking a significant shift for the team.

Key Points:

• Rodgers’ Impact: Smith praises Rodgers as one of the greatest quarterbacks, expecting him to elevate the Steelers’ performance significantly. “Aaron Rodgers could be an upgrade from both Russell Wilson and Justin Fields” ([94:22]).

• Team Dynamics: Emphasizes the strategic advantage Rodgers brings to the Steelers, especially in a division stacked with talented quarterbacks like Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson. “He is one of the greatest quarterbacks who have ever played the game” ([94:22]).

• Concerns: While optimistic about Rodgers, Smith expresses frustration over the Steelers potentially overlooking emerging talent like Shandon Sanders, which he fears could backfire. “Shandon Sanders better not end up being a better quarterback than anybody the Steelers have” ([94:22]).

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Conclusion

Stephen A. Smith wraps up the episode by expressing gratitude to his guests and emphasizing the multifaceted nature of today's discussions. From the volatile Trump-Musk feud and its political ramifications to the thrilling NBA Finals and the intense Sean "Diddy" Combs trial, the episode offers a thorough exploration of events shaping the current social and political landscape.

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Notable Quotes:

• “This massive, outrageous, pork-filled congressional spending bill is a disgusting abomination. Shame on those who voted for it.” – Elon Musk ([02:30])
• “Without me, Trump would have lost the election.” – Donald Trump ([04:05])
• “This is not a story that we wanted today for America.” – Will Kane ([14:35])
• “Donald Trump is the twice impeached, criminally convicted felon con man in chief.” – Roland Martin ([43:49])
• “A name. This is you and me and other sports metaphors standing at the plate.” – Will Kane ([40:38])

This episode of The Stephen A. Smith Show effectively navigates complex topics, providing listeners with in-depth analysis and diverse perspectives, ensuring a comprehensive understanding of the issues at hand.

Transcript

[Stephen A. Smith]

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[Stephen A. Smith]

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[Roland Martin]

We're prohibited by law.

[Stephen A. Smith]

21/ terms and conditions apply. President Donald Trump, Elon Musk, Diddy and the NBA Finals Lord do I got a show for you today. The Stephen A. Smith Shows in the house. Go. What's up everybody? Welcome to the latest edition of the Stephen A. Smith Show. Coming at you as I love to do at the very least three times a week over the digital airwaves of YouTube and of course iHeartRadio. As always, I like to pause and take a moment to thank and pay gratitude to my followers, my listeners, my subscribers, courtesy of iHeartRadio. We've had millions of downloads over the last few months. Obviously in the case of YouTube, in terms of our subscriber base, we've eclipsed 1.23 million. Can't thank y' all for the love and support. Enough. Keep it coming and I'm gonna keep on coming to continue to like and follow the show. Just click the bell to get notified for all of our newest content and you too shall be the latest member of the Stephen A. Smith show family. And while you're doing that, please be sure to make time to pick up a copy of my New York Times best selling book, Straight Shooter, A Memoir of Second Chances and First Takes now in paperback. Just go to straightshooterbook.com to get yourself a copy. Once again, that's straightshooterbook.com to get yourself a copy. If you notice a lot of times when I'm talking, you'll see something over My right shoulder and it says Straight Shooter Media. That is the name of my media company, my production company. Obviously I got it from the title of my book. So you see the correlation. Anyway, I got a lot of stuff to get into today and we, and we gonna get started real quick on this. It's getting started with the feud between President Donald Trump and Elon Musk, the most powerful man in the world versus the richest man in the world. It was a war of words over the airwaves and social media stemming from Musk criticism of Trump's signature tax and immigration bill. Musk had been criticizing the bill and Trump earlier in the week and things really took a turn for the worst yesterday. Listen, here's a timeline of the exchange that started with this post on X from Musk. Quote, I'm sorry but I just can't stand it anymore. This massive, outrageous, pork filled congressional spending bill is a disgusting abomination. Shame on those who voted for it. You know you did wrong. You know it, end quote. The President was asked about this and other comments from Musk and here's what he had to say today. Take a listen.

[Roland Martin]

Elon and I had a great relationship. I don't know if we're well anymore. I was surprised because you were here. Everybody in this room practically was here.

[Will Kane]

As we had a wonderful send off.

[Roland Martin]

He said wonderful things about me. You couldn't have nicer said the best thing he's worn the hat. Trump was right about everything and I am right about the great big beautiful bill.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Those comments from the Oval Office didn't sit well with Musk who posted this shortly thereafter. Quote, without me, Trump would have lost the election. Dems would control the House and the Republicans would be 51 to 49 in the Senate, end quote. That was followed by this additional post from Musk who kept on going. Such ingratitude. End quote. Musk said Trump went to his own social media via Truth Social and posted this quote, Elon was wearing thin. I asked him to leave. I took away his EV mandate that forced everyone to buy electric cars that nobody else wanted that he knew for months I was going to do and he just went crazy, end quote. Trump continued with this post in regards to the Tesla CEO and his company. Quote, the easiest way to save money in our budget, billions and billions of dollars is to terminate Elon's governmental subsidies and contracts. I was always surprised that Biden didn't do it, end quote. Needless to say, that didn't sit well with Musk who dropped this post on X. Quote, Time to drop the really big bomb. Donald Trump is in the Epstein files. That is the real reason they have not been made public. Have a nice day, djt. End quote. Lord have mercy, ladies and gentlemen. This is a mess. This is an absolute mess. There's no way to get around the mess that exists. And I'm not going to get into the specifics. I thought it was pretty low for Musk to mention Donald Trump in the same breath as the Epstein files. You need to have proof, concrete proof, if you're going to say something like that. Okay? And as far as I'm concerned, if you're Donald Trump, since you always have a pension to sue, I would anticipate that you'll be filing a lawsuit for defamation against Elon Musk, if indeed you so chose to do so. Elon Musk is worth a reported over $450 billion. Um, I don't think he's going to have the money as an issue for him at all. But you just never know with something like this. It's gotten ugly. And I think there's certain things beyond repair. Watching various news networks and stuff like that. Fox News, cnn and stuff like that. You know, Trump was once called the Nazi By Vice President J.D. vance, if y' all remember correctly. Lord knows, you know, he repaired the relationships with Marco Rubio, who's now his Secretary of State, and Senator Ted Cruz. And the way he talked about Ted Cruz and his wife when they were campaigning against one another back in 2016 or 2015 into 2016. So you can't look at this and say, there's no way that this relationship could be repaired when it's the richest man in the world dealing with the President of the United States, and somebody finds common ground because their interests appear to be common. Who knows what amends they can make? But right now, it looks really, really ugly. Here's the part that I want people to peel from this coming from my mouth. This is an opportunity for the Democrats. It's an opportunity if you're Elon Musk. You're talking about creating a third party, having that independent party, throwing your muscle behind that independent party to help candidates get into office. It's not beyond appeal that he'd be willing to do that for the Democrats. First of all, he's speaking against Trump's big, beautiful bill. Secondly, he's voted for Democrats in the past. A Hillary Clinton in 2016, a Joe Biden in 2020. There were candidates he was willing to support for the midterm when it was supposed to be A red wave. And it wasn't for the Republican Party in 2022. So who's to say that even though he supported Trump in 2024, that he won't now that he's turned against Trump, he won't elect to support Democrats in their quest to win the midterms and to regain some level of control in 2026. This is an opportunity for Democrats, the ones that are willing to be centrist, because we know the extreme progressive left turned Elon Musk off. It was the thing that encouraged him to go out and, and spent over $200 million of his own money to ensure, or to help ensure that Trump would get elected for a second time. So the left turned them off. So if you're the Democrats, are you going to let the AOCs, the Bernie Sanders and that ilk, be the face of your party, whereby you're alienating somebody with the deep pockets that Elon Musk has? The man is worth over $450 billion. Are you gonna be smart, or are you gonna be smart about it and say, excuse me, since about 80% of the population isn't on the fringes, that all of us lean toward the center, and this man has the pockets to help Democratic candidates who are centrist regain some level of power? What you gonna do? Democratic Party? And if you're the Republicans, oh, by the way, you got midterms to be concerned about as well. That's why this big, beautiful bill supposedly is so important. If you're listening to Speaker Mike Johnson, who I watched on CNBC this morning, he was talking about how important the bill is, because those 2017 tax breaks that Trump instituted, they're speculating that if they can't pass the big, beautiful bill and it doesn't get through the Senate and it doesn't get written in the law, guess what? We're going to have a problem because those taxes, those tax breaks are going to evaporate. And as a result, they're projecting, meaning the GOP there, we're going to be an extra 4 trillion in debt. That's what they're saying. And if that happens, who knows what else is going to happen? Who knows if jobs are not going to get lost? Who knows if the economy is not going to be stirred? Who knows if a recession is not going to come into play? So with all of those concerns, the Republicans feel they absolutely, positively have to get Trump's big, beautiful bill passed. But they also think it about themselves in the midterms in 2026, next year. And Musk was contributing to them as well. So we've got quite a quandary here. We really, really do. There is no way around it, but that's as far as I'm willing to go on it because I need better minds, more astute minds, people that do this every day to touch on these issues which I'm about to get to right now, but not before I pay this bill with Prize Picks. All right, folks, I need you all to stop what you're doing and listen up. You know I love this time of year, right? The NBA players are in full effect and with all this action jumping off, the Stephen A. Smith show wants to make sure you take advantage of it all. That's why we partnered with Prize Picks the Best Place to Win Cash While Watching Sports the app is really easy to use. You know, just pick more or less on a few player stats and you can win up to 2000 times your cash on a single lineup. Best of all, Prize Picks will give you $50 when you play your first $5 lineup. Win or lose, you'll get 50 bucks for playing. Use promo code SAS and download the app now. Again, don't download the app and use code SAS to get $50 instantly after your first $5 lineup. Prize picks hey, hey, Run your game the Indiana Pacers took Game one of the NBA Finals against the Oklahoma City Thunder with a spectacular buzzer beater by Tyrese Halliburton actually with 0.3 seconds left in regulation. Game 2 will take place on Sunday, so I'll give you my picks for the game. First up, will Tyrese Halliburton score more or less than 16 and a half points? I'm going with more. He wasn't formidable offensively until late in the game, obviously in Game one, I think it'll be more a bit more aggressive and a bit more accurate in Game two. I'm going to go with more on that particular question. Will Shay Gilgis Alexander score more or less than 34 and a half points? Brother had 38 in game one. Why would I think he had less in game two? Especially in a must win situation which the Oklahoma City Thunder are in. I'm going to go with more on this one as well. Next up, will Miles Turner score more or less than 13 and a half points? I'm going with more on this one as well. I think they're going to be opportunities for Miles Turner to score because I think they're going to be keying a lot on Neesmith and Nemhard considering the way that they played along with Halliburton, there will be opportunities for my alternative to score. I'm going to go with more on this one, too. And finally, will Chet Holmgren score more or less than 14 and a half points? I'm going to go with less, but it really has nothing to do with his virtual no show in game one. I thought it was a mistake for Dagonal to change his start and lineup in Game one. I thought that was a mistake. I thought that affected Chet Holmgren. I think he'll be better in game two. But nevertheless, I think somebody like Jay. Jaylen Williams has to get up. So between Jalen Williams and Shay Gilgis Alexander, I think they're going to carry the brunt of the offense. And I could see Chet Holmgren scoring less in this particular equation. So answer that. Answer all of these questions. Here they are. More for Tyrese Halliburton, more for Shay Gilgis Alexander. Okay. More for Miles Turner and less for Chet Holmgren. I like that. You know, that's how I do it with prospects. I love the word more, by the way. I'll have more to add a little bit later on. We got a Sunday matchup coming up. You know, Game two. It's not like I'm gonna be oblivious to that. Welcome back. I have two guests, a conservative and a liberal. To break this all down, we'll start on the right with the conservative. He hosts the Will Kane show on Fox News. I believe it is. Every weekday at 4pm on Fox News. He's used to work with me at espn. He's a friend of mine. I love him to death. I haven't seen him in a while. He's crazy. We don't usually agree, but I got love for him. The one and only Will Kane. What's up, man? How you doing?

[Will Kane]

What do you mean you believe it is at 4pm Eastern time? You damn well better know it's at 4pm Eastern Time. I mean, I've learned, I've learned from the best. If you don't sing your praises, I don't know who will. So let me just say if you, if you don't know, well, you need to join the millions to do. We're setting ratings records over here. At 4pm we're rivaling prime time. So tune in and join Stephen. A.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right. Well, listen, man, I, I, I've, I've caught, you know, my schedule is busy, but I've caught your show several times because it's you. And I'd love to tell you I'm surprised at the great job you're doing, but I'm not. I love the fact that you got your own show. I think that you're going to eventually be in prime time. I'm making that prediction, personally speaking. I think you should be in prime time already. I'm just going to give you that kind of love. But I'm proud of you, my man. You're getting better. You're getting. I have to give it to you. Well, let me get right to it, man. Yesterday on your show, you broke down the timeline of the heated feud between Elon Musk and President Donald Trump, saying, quote, this is not a story that we wanted today for America. Is this good or bad for the Republican Party in your estimation? Will?

[Will Kane]

Well, there's no doubt about it that it's bad. There's no doubt about it. This is not just bad for the Republican Party, STEPHEN A. This is bad for America. The only people left snickering today and enjoying the ride are those that wish for the downfall of Donald Trump or think that Elon Musk is the reincarnation of Adolf Hitler. Hitler. And of course, both of those are absurd propositions. I think we have seen something truly remarkable. And I've been watching your commentary, I've been watching your, I hope, evolution not towards the right, but towards being in the right over the last several months. And the truth of the matter is when the world's richest man, in the world's most powerful man can share the stage, and they did, STEPHEN A. In remarkable fashion, in very generous and humble fashion, when they can share the stage, that in itself is remarkable for America. And I can only hope at the end of this roller coaster, it coasts in for a beautiful ride. I hope that they can make amends and get back on the same team.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, educate my audience as to specifically why has it come to this with their personal relationship, we can speculate, we can read various news reports, but from your understanding, what was the tipping point that pushed Elon Musk over the edge to get to this point where he's been so acerbic and so abrasive towards the president? Because I definitely would accuse him of being that towards the president in this particular instance.

[Will Kane]

Yeah, Elon Musk looks like he's crashing out. Looks like he's lost it and he's unstable. In this particular episode, the last 24 hours, there's the substance and there's the style. Let's start with the substance. STEPHEN A. It is the most boring, but it's also the most important. Elon doesn't like the Big, beautiful bill. Elon has taken it upon himself over the last several months to dig in to the government's finances, dig into every department with, of course, Doge. Look, Elon is a genius, Stephen A. I mean, he's a Thomas Edison level individual that will go down in history as one of the most important men to grace this planet. He simply is. But Elon is also someone quirky, used to getting things done solely sometimes, or at least through his singular vision. And that's just not going to be possible in government. It's certainly not going to be possible in democracy. Democracy is messy and full of people of different opinions, and some of those are even within what people think is a monolith. One party, Republicans. But it's not a monolith. It's a mix. So Elon comes in, he sees the dire financial straits of the United States. He knows we can't continue to run these kind of deficits over 6%, 7% of GDP year over year. It's unsustainable, $36 trillion in debt, and he wants to do something about it. And he wishes he had the reins to just get it done. But you don't. You just don't in a democracy. And so he doesn't like the big, beautiful bill. For his part, I do believe that Donald Trump is getting the best possible bill that he can get, and that is because it is messy, as I keep saying, democracy. Of course, Democrats aren't going to participate in anything that reduces the size of government. But even on the right, even among Republicans. Stephen A. You got New York and New Jersey and California Democrats that probably will do something you want, which is institute salt state and local tax deductions to your federal taxes. Guys like you that live in New York and New Jersey or in California, you want that. You don't want to pay the feds for stuff you're having to pay the state of New Jersey. I'm sure I lived up there with you, I'm sure I liked it. But now that I live back home in Texas, I don't want to subsidize your bloated and fat and inefficient government in New York and New Jersey. And that's what I'm doing. I'm subsidizing it. When you get to write it off of your federal taxes. But Donald Trump has to deal with it because there are Republicans from New Jersey and New York and California in the Senate, there's Republicans that like parts of the Green New Deal. And it means something to a senator from North Dakota. So the point is. STEPHEN A. He's got to make a deal. And that's what Donald Trump does. He makes deals. And Elon Musk doesn't like the deal. So that's the substance. Okay. But real quickly, then there's the style. Okay. And that's important as well. It's the personalities. And I don't know what's going on with Elon. You know, I think he, like I said, is quirky. I don't know Elon. I think I've. I don't even know that we've shaken hands. We've been in the same room once or twice. But, you know, I think he has a grand vision. I appreciate his vision. I think that he is a different kind of dude. STEPHEN A. I really do. And I think it speaks volumes to Donald Trump that not only have they gotten along, but he's welcomed him in and shared the stage and managed to be good partners for America, but in the same breath.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, we can't sit here and act like Donald Trump has done everything right. I certainly understand, and I side with you from the standpoint that, you know, with your big. With his big, beautiful deal, everything in there, everybody is not going to, like, you have to acquiesce to some of the demands. Like you said, he's about making a deal, whatever it takes to get a deal done and get some of the things that he wants, primarily preserving those 27 tax cuts and making sure they extend to now and they don't get canceled out. The flip side to that, however, is that he brags about having these individuals hiring the very, very best, the greatest innovative minds, people who have the country's interests best and stuff like that. And when we see this kind of erratic behavior from an Elon Musk and we see him and the President of the United States go back and forth, some people would say it's beneath Donald Trump. I happen to believe what Donald Trump said hasn't been that bad against Elon Musk. To me, it's been coming from Elon Musk in terms of the extreme statements that he has made, which I won't repeat. My point is, is that it's still somebody that Donald Trump not only embraced, but empowered. Department of Government efficiency cuts, people lost their jobs, etc. And folks, particularly on the left, are looking at this now and saying, see, it's exactly what we warned y' all about. Look at this mess that's going on within the Trump administration. Because no matter which way you slice it, because it's Elon Musk. That is what he is perceived as because that is what he has been a part of the Trump administration. How do you, what do you say to that?

[Will Kane]

First, you won't say, but I will. And I see you're showing some of what Elon Musk had to say on screen. But let's deal with the most salacious and the biggest broadside attack. And that is the reason the Epstein files weren't released is because Donald Trump is in the Epstein files. Well, first of all, it's not breaking news that Donald Trump knew Jeffrey Epstein. It's nothing new or nothing salacious to say. There are records that show he might have been at times flying with Jeffrey Epstein, but there's no evidence there's anything more than that relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. And if there were, Stephen, I would suggest to you, I would suggest to you that the Department of Justice under Joe Biden would have, the FBI under James Comey would have aired that stuff against Donald Trump. They did everything possible to take down Donald Trump. And I say this with love, even you have been talking about the level of lawfare against Trump. So do you think they would have kept that ace of spades in their pocket? Not and not played that card had they had it against Donald Trump? It's simply unbelievable.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Pause. Before you go on, I want to make sure that I'm letting my audience know. I think it's egregious to just say something like that without proof. So I'm glad you're touching on it, but I want them to know the reason I haven't done it is because I'm not going to be unfair to Donald Trump like that. That's why I didn't want to do that. That's. I just want to let the audience know that because I think it's irresponsible to just throw that out there the way Elon Musk did. But go ahead.

[Ryan Smith]

Right.

[Will Kane]

Well, I just think it's and it's okay for us, it's okay for us to discuss it in terms of its lack of credibility. What more, it's not the flex that Elon thinks it is that if he knew that information, he was going to keep it as well under his cap as long like the spending cuts. So now he doesn't like the spending cuts. So he's willing to expose one of the greatest, salacious, most indicting things you could say about somebody. I just think it shows it has no credibility, that particular broadside. Now, to your point about everyone looks at Donald Trump saying he hires the best and the brightest. And look at the method it's created. Well, look, you know, it's a little bit like criticizing. It's. I'm trying to think of the right sports metaphor. Stephen A. It's a little bit like criticizing the New England Patriots run. The incredible dynasty put together between Tom Brady and Bill Belichick. And then for us all to think the bigger story is the relationship between Tom Brady and Bill Belichick. So what I mean by that is not necessarily that Elon Musk and Donald Trump put together a historical dynasty, but it is historical to bring these types of figures together. So what I mean, okay, you know this. If I might, Stephen A. You know something about big egos. Not just your own, but others. You've been around a lot of big egos.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yours too. Yours too. Damn it. You ain't getting away with that. You too. Go ahead. Go ahead, man.

[Will Kane]

Our relationship. Our relationship is a testament to the power that sometimes big egos can coexist, get along and even be friends. But don't get. Don't get it twisted. That's rare. How often are the world's richest man and the world's most powerful man partners in a shared vision? It is super rare. So you start from a historical point. You can't really think the story is, wow, it didn't last, or it's a mess. It's incredible it ever existed in the first place. Look at Donald Trump literally shared the Oval Office, let Elon Musk stand there for hours on end and commandeered the cameras. I watched those and I thought, man, Donald Trump is not the guy people think he is. He is not the attention hound and the credibility seeker that everybody thinks he is. He's perfectly willing to share the stage. And I think that is historical. It's truly historical. Now posit that, okay? It's messy, it's transparent. Everything's playing out before our eyes and it's not always going to go well. Now posit that against what we've had, not just for the last five years. Stephen A. But I would offer you, through most presidential administrations, highly coordinated, highly produced fake, fake. Kumbaya. Everybody on the same page, everybody paring the same spin. And in the end, what do you get? You get something like Karine Jean Pierre three months out of office of being the biggest spinster.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Oh, don't get me started with her.

[Will Kane]

I know, but.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Oh, I can't wait to see her. I can't wait to see her. Go ahead. I'm sorry.

[Ryan Smith]

Literally a lie.

[Will Kane]

She wasn't willing to spend for Joe Biden. And then three months later, you know what? I'm not a Democrat anymore. That right there could suggest to everybody in America, maybe we could use a little more messy transparency instead of manufactured and polished fake Kumbaya.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's a damn good point. And don't get me started with that. You're not even a Democrat anymore and now you out of office, you're out of the White House and now we gonna profit. Oh, I can't wait to see her. God bless her for selling her book, but I can't wait to see her to ask about that stuff. Because stuff that she said in the White House is one thing that was your employer. But then you went on a view after you left White House and you said some of the same stuff. You could have gave everybody a heads up then you didn't do it. So anyway, we'll get back to that another time. You said it's hard to see a path forward for these two, Donald Trump and Elon Musk, to repair their relationship after Musk slammed the President's proposed spending bill. Is, I mean, is this a feud the party created or do you just put it solely on Musk? What are your thoughts about that?

[Will Kane]

Well, if the party helped create or fuel this feud, it's that Elon Musk doesn't like what happens when you pour action into the messy democratic process of a bunch of congressmen and senators and get the result that he doesn't like. But the truth is, I think this is more about personalities. Now, normal personalities would say, you've crossed the Rubicon. This is irreparable. You accused me of being in league with Jeffrey Epstein. And he also endorsed a random user saying impeach Trump and install J.D. vance. He also did that. And for most people that would be a bridge too far. We're not going to fix this. I don't think that's Donald Trump. I'm being real with you, Stephen A. Now, I do know this man somewhat where I said I don't know Musk as well. I do know Donald Trump, but you don't have to know him to see this. He's actually forgiving. He actually moves beyond. He doesn't hold grudges. Oh, he'll come hard at you if you go with him. But given time and space and the opportunity to heal, he's shown over and over that he's willing to do So. I mean, J.D. vance one time referred to him as Hitler. And J.D. vance is the Vice President of the United States. You have said hard things about Donald Trump. I wouldn't be surprised if you told me right now he's called you. I'd be actually, I'd be surprised if you said he's never called you. I bet you've heard from Donald Trump, right? And you've said hard things about Donald Trump. He looks past it when he needs to. He's not as sensitive, or at least he doesn't hold grudges like you would think. And so I wouldn't put it beyond the realm of possibility that we could see a beautiful big reunion for Musk and Trump.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I would tell you this. I've never, you know, as far as I'm concerned, I've never said anything that I owe Donald Trump an apology for. I can tell you that much because I never called him out his name or anything like that. I just don't like the way he behaves. And I think you don't have to.

[Will Kane]

You know what the funny thing? You don't have to apologize. You don't have to apologize to be on good terms with Donald Trump. Look at Bill Maher. You don't have to. It's just he's not. The media has created such a caricature of Donald Trump. If you only ever watched CNN or MSNBC or NBC or ABC or cbs, you just have a cartoonish character vision of who the man actually is and you don't know reality.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Will Kane. Hold on for a second. I got to pay some bills, but I'll be right back with you. It's Stephen A. Smith with Will Kane right here on the Stephen A. Smith Show. Back with more in a minute. All right everybody, listen up. Lola Big Thompson sports action is happening each and every day. The Stephen A. Smith show wants to make sure you are taking advantage of it all. That's why we partnered with Prize Picks. The best place to win cash while watching sports. The app is really easy to use to make a lineup. All you have to do is pick more or less on a few player stats. Choose from any of your favorite players. Tyrese Halliburton, Shay Gilgis Alexander, Pascal Siakam, all in the same entry. Then sit back and watch. The list is really endless. You can play prospects in over 40 states, including California and Texas. Best of all, prospects will give you 50 when you play your first five dollar lineup. Win or lose, you'll get 50 bucks. So just use promo code SAS and download Prospects now. Again, download the app and use code SAS to get 50 instantly after your first five dollar lineup. Prize picks. Hey, hey. Run Your game back here with Will Kane on the Stephen A. Smith Show. So, Will, let's get right to it. How worried are you for the Republicans in the 2026 Midterms in light of Musk, you know, basically threatening to formulate a third party, basically threatening to finance Democrats the way that he did? Some Republicans, especially Trump, 2026, 2028 could be in trouble for the right based on all this noise we've been seeing. You concerned about that? You concerned about that, Will?

[Will Kane]

I'm not. I'm not. Look, you can do two things at the same time. You can give Elon Musk a ton of credit for the role he played, the money he spent in electing Donald Trump. But I personally think Donald Trump would have T.R. kamala Harris without Elon Musk. And right now, and I wouldn't put it beyond the realm of possibility that Elon Musk does go out there, maybe he does give money to third parties. Maybe he even gives money to Democrats. But you, you could give all the money in the world. You could give. How about this? I don't want to give you any ammunition, so I'm not going to use the Dallas Cowboys, but you could give all the money in the world to, I don't know, pick your lowest level franchise. And it doesn't going to make, it's not going to make them an overnight champion. And right now the problem with the Democratic Party is there's nobody to put money behind. There's just simply no talent on the bench. There's not any in Triple A, there's not any in Double A and there's certainly not any in the majors. You show me where the biggest level of talent is, I might be talking to him. I might be talking to the biggest talent on the bench for Democrats.

[Stephen A. Smith]

There you go with just a. Did you go there you go with your stuff. I will tell you this, though. I agree with you as it, as it pertains to a national figure. But when you're talking about some of these congressional districts, when you're talking about some of these districts that the senators are fighting for as well, I think he has an opportunity to make inroads. I think, I think, I don't, I don't know if you can definitively say that the GOP has a strong hold on the House and the Senate in that regard as you sift through this country, he might be able to make some inroads there.

[Will Kane]

Yeah, that's fair. It's a slim margin. It's a slim margin in both the House and the Senate. And let's not get it mixed up, the charm and charisma and pull of Donald Trump. Not every politician can even come close to scratching the surface of doesn't matter if they have an R by their name. But it's not just the people. Politics is two things. And you know, one thing I appreciate about and people, I don't want people to think I'm, I'm gratuitously, you know, buttering you up because I have on my program at times criticized you. And whether or not you're aware, I'm sure you're a big boy enough to not care. And politics is two things and one of them you still have to work on. If any of this stuff about you is real, then there's, there's still, and you admit this holes in your game. It's a combination of two things. It's personality, charm, persuasion and the ability to connect with people. And you have that. You've got that, okay? And Donald Trump has that. But you also have to have policy. You have to have things people care about. And right now the Democratic Party has no policy. Stephen A. That even an Elon Musk funded run presents to me a real threat. Now, that doesn't mean he couldn't pick off a House seat or two or maybe a Senate seat or two. And it is a slim margin. But the biggest issue for the Democrat Party right now isn't money and it is in part personality. But the biggest problem is the policies and ideas. They're simply not just bad. Stephen A. They're really, really unpopular.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Let me say this to you on a personal note. There's been plenty of times where people have come up to me and they said, did you see Will Cain? He's criticized you. I said no, and I don't give a damn. And here's the reason why. Because I'm quite sure it was Will Kane disagreeing with something that I said. He's not attacking me or my character. That's the relationship we have. I don't care if he disagrees with me. And that's all. I've always been that way.

[Will Kane]

And you're the same way. This is one of the reasons we've gotten along. I would not say something into a microphone or behind your back that I would never say to your face. And that is like our relationship is not predicated on liking everything each other have to say. The relationship is predicated on the integrity of telling one another where and where we do not agree or disagree.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's right. And where we stand. And that's why we got love for one another. Let me ask you this question. What's. You've heard that Steve Bannon, you know, obviously a Trump loyalist, somebody that used to work in the White House, no longer does so. But he basically called for Elon Musk to be deported. He said, quote, they should initiate a formal investigation of his immigration status, because I am of the strong belief that he is an illegal alien and he should be deported from the country immediately. Now, see, Will, this is one of the problems right. This is one of the problems right here, because I had somebody look it up, and I was informed. Elon Musk is a naturalized US citizen. He became a citizen in 2002 after moving from South Africa to Canada in 1989 and then to the United States in the early 1990s. His journey included various visas, culminating in US citizenship through the legal naturalization process. As a US citizen, Musk is protected under the Constitution and cannot be deported without due process. Deportation of a naturalized citizen is extremely rare, if I know that, damn it. Steve Bannon knows that. What do you think when you hear somebody like Steve Bannon say those words?

[Will Kane]

Well, first of all, that. That's a question. And. And I. I don't know if you two have talked. I think that you have, and that's in the past.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes, I interviewed him.

[Will Kane]

Yeah, I thought that was right. Yeah. And that's a question for Steve Bannon. So I'm glad you looked that up, because I was wondering that last night. I saw what Steve had to say. And I'm gonna say a couple things. Steve is incredibly smart, and. And. And Steve is worth listening to. And there are things that Steve and I are definitely on the same page about. And I have no problem saying, like, I believe in the United States of America and the culture and the form of government and the protection of the United States of America. And Steve, I believe, is very skeptical of anyone who he thinks might question those foundational elements of the United States of America. I wondered last night the same thing that you just educated me on. I wondered, what is Elon's. What is Elon's citizenship status? And I'm glad you clarified for me and the audience. He's a citizen of the United States, and you can't deport a citizen of the United States, to my knowledge. And I would love to hear Steve's argument for why. Steve's always been skeptical of Elon. And I don't think Steve's skepticism of Elon, by the way, is unfair. I think he's skeptical towards all of tech, towards everyone that thinks that a country is like a company ready to be optimized. That's not what a country is. We're not a business. We're not here simply to get rich and wealthy. We are here to be what we have been throughout our history, and that is the world's leader in way of life. And this is where we can always diverge into conversations about where we've fallen short and our mistakes that we've made throughout our history, all of which are true and need to be acknowledged. But still, we're special. We're special on the face of humanity. And I'm with Steve in protecting that above all.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I hear you on that. What is special about the big beautiful bill in your estimation that the country should look forward to, that the country should like, since Elon Musk has spoken against it. What about those who have spoken for it? What are they saying is big and beautiful about it?

[Will Kane]

Okay, that's a tough question. I'm not sure there is a lot that is special. Do you ever get to special by compromise? Do you ever get to special by the messy issue of making a deal? But I do think there are very smart people who are singing its praises. I'll give you two. I think Stephen Miller is brilliant. I think Scott Besant, Treasury Secretary, is brilliant. And they lay out three things. Tax cuts, waste and fraud cuts, not to the level that Elon wants, but waste and fraud cuts and codifying the protection of the border. Those are the three things they like. Now on the most important thing is if you're going to have deficits but you want to try to reduce those, the argument is the way you do that is growing your economy and the tax cuts grow the economy. Besant believes we can run deficits at 3% by growing the economy 3% and by cutting taxes, we supercharge the economy into growth of 3%. That's the way you reduce deficits, even if it's not the cuts that someone like Elon Musk wants through Doge. There's one more thing, Stephen. If you're really in the business of educating your audience, it's a little bit boring. But you have to understand a reconciliation bill is not a budget bill. It's not an appropriations bill. There's only so much you can do through reconciliation. There are other places to make cuts. Two of them are rescission. That's what the president says to the Senate. I want you to make these cuts. They go back and they formalize them. There's one right now for 9 billion, which is not enough. And that's tiny in the grand scope of things. And the other is Appropriations and all those great people you mentioned that Trump hires. Hegseth. That's where I've taken issue with you. By the way, Stephen A. My friends, Pete Hegseth is Secretary of Defense. Sean Duffy of Transportation, on and on. Every secretary of every cabinet looks for cuts, asks congressman, this is the budget that I need. Institute these cuts, and that's what we'll get through Appropriations. It's not the end of the story just because it's not in the one big beautiful bill.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Understood. And by the way, I'm going to save your platform to bring up Pete Hegseth when you call me on your show. You, you, you do that. I got no problems with the man. I haven't land based on the man at all. I've just talked about what his, his ascension represented. There was a bigger deal. If I saw Pete Hegseth, I'd walk up to him and say to him, I have nothing against you. You served our country with honor and distinction. I got no problems with you, my man. I was just talking about what it represented. I mean, damn. That's all I'm saying. But we'll talk about that another day. My last question to you, because I know you got to go and I got to go as well. If this Elon Musk and Trump fiasco brouhaha doesn't simmer down, if it gets uglier. You've already said this is not good, right? How bad could it possibly get for Trump and the administration and our government if Elon goes nuclear per se and somehow gets even worse than he has already gotten? Especially considering the fact that Trump acknowledged all the access that he had throughout the White House, access to files and things of this nature. What the hell if that. What if that happens, Will Kane? What if Elon Musk gets uglier?

[Will Kane]

I think there's limited damage for Trump. There's a floor on the amount of damage that Musk can do to Trump, and there is much more potential loss for Musk. First of all, Musk does have government contracts. I don't think he cares as much about EV tax credits. He's incredibly passionate about space and NASA and Space X. And he stands to lose on one of his biggest passions should he make a complete enemy of the President of the United States. I also think Musk will run into a credibility issue if he keeps doing things like the accusations around Jeffrey Epstein or impeachment And Donald Trump. Look, the American people voted for Donald Trump. They didn't vote for Elon Musk. That doesn't mean there's a lot of people that might have been persuaded to his side because of the influence of Musk. But in the end, he is the man that's elected to the President of the United States. And I think there's a floor on the amount of damage. Look, how about this? Stephen, A name. This is you and me and other sports metaphors standing at the plate. We're batting against. I don't know, we're batting against Garrett Cole. And he's thrown every pitch. He's got what's left in the end. We're hitting everything Donald Trump has seen. Every pitch. Every single pitch. Are you telling me Musk has one that hasn't already been thrown? I think there's a floor in how much damage.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I say we don't know that. Will. Will. The man is worth over $450 billion. And he got close to Trump and close to the White House administration. I'm saying I don't know. I mean, I get the point. It's a legitimate question that you've asked, albeit rhetorically. I'm saying the. The possibilities of a potent answer might be out there. It might be something we haven't seen. We don't know what this guy. Right. We don't.

[Will Kane]

Just for the record, as we're putting this down, just prepare yourself. Because more likely as an outcome is, you have one big, beautiful makeup session and these two guys get back together.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I got you the one and only Will Kane. The will Kane show. 4:00pm Eastern Standard Time. Fox News got ratings already rivaling prime time, doing his thing. And I'm gonna come on your show soon. Cause I owe you. So I've been on the road the last two damn months. I owe you. I owe you. An appearance on your show, man. Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy.

[Roland Martin]

All right.

[Will Kane]

Thanks, Stephen.

[Stephen A. Smith]

A. All right, buddy. You take it easy. Interesting perspective right there from Will Kane. Obviously, he thinks it's a relationship that could be amended. Things could get better. Who knows? Donald Trump has forgiven people before, so the likelihood is that he'd be willing to forgive a man worth about $450 billion that donated over $200 million to his campaign and that of other GOP members. This is what Donald Trump is capable of doing. After all, the president, Vice President of the United States of America, once said some very incendiary things about him. And he's the vice President of The United States of America said some really ridiculous things about Donald Trump in the past, and Donald Trump forgave him. So that's what. That's what their position is now. Let's hear from the other side. My next guest has been called the Voice of Black America. He hosts the daily political show Roland Martin, Unfiltered. He's been here many times. He's a friend. Got love for him, even when he gets after me. Okay, I'm talking about the one and only Roland Martin in the house. What's up, big time? How are you, man? How's everything going, bro? What's up?

[Roland Martin]

I wore the coldest and the bonus fraternity shirt today just for you.

[Stephen A. Smith]

There you go. There you go with yourself. I'll leave it alone. I'll leave it alone. Because we got President.

[Roland Martin]

That's the flyaway signal.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I got you. I got you. Listen, with Trump and Musk, what were your thoughts when you saw this bat unfolding everywhere yesterday?

[Roland Martin]

Well, we all we knew was going to happen. When you take two narcissistic, egotistical, deranged individuals, they are going to clash. It was inevitable. Donald Trump can't stand anybody that gets more attention than he does. And here's a guy who gets more attention, owns his own social media platform. We know truth social is a joke. And he's got way more money than Donald Trump. They were going to class, and so I was sitting here watching chickens coming home to roost. And I was really. This is really. This is how I was operating all day. I was sitting here going, okay, what's next? What's next?

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's what you were doing.

[Roland Martin]

That's what. Oh, yeah. Because it was beyond laughable to watch these two idiots going back and forth. And it shows you that Donald Trump, I do not call him president. He is the twice impeached, criminally convicted felon con man in chief. And it goes to show you that he does not have the demeanor nor the authority to sit in that Oval Office chair. They can yell all they want to about Joe Biden and his mental acuity and his cognitive decline, but guess what? You didn't see a grown man who occupies the Oval Office acting like a spoiled little brat, going back and forth with a. With a donor.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, let's talk about that donor for a second. That donor also happened to be the head of Doge Department of Government Efficiency who facilitated billions of. Yeah, but, but you talk about, you know, they. What did they say? $1.75 billion in waste.

[Roland Martin]

That's what they claim. They Saved that. But then when you actually, when you actually get what actually came down, most even Republicans say it was barely a hundred billion in so called savings.

[Stephen A. Smith]

No, I only bring that up to ask this question, Roland. He wasn't just somebody mouthing off. He's a guy that's worth over 100 or $450 billion. He's an individual that was empowered by Donald Trump himself and the Trump administration. Obviously some of the decisions that he made led to federal employees being cut. Let's make sure we recognize that. So he's been harmful to some degree. So with all of that being said, how bad do you think this situation could deteriorate into? Because it doesn't seem like it's just back and forth banter or whatever. It seems like some real damage could be done. I'm wondering what damage do you think could be done to Trump? What damage do you think will be done to the country in light of what's going on right now, if anything at all? That's what I'm asking.

[Roland Martin]

First of all, it's not going to be damage to the country because let's just be perfectly clear. If you're Elon Musk, from a business standpoint, your business doesn't exist, exist without federal dollars. And I broke this thing down on my show like I love these people, I love these black people. Talk about man. Or we got do for sale, do for sale, pull ourselves up by bootstraps. And I said, you're going to see them 32 billionaires, 32 corporate CEOs who went to Saudi Arabia with Trump. So Elon Musk, SpaceX, Tesla, when you talk about the loans that he got, the contract, so he needs, in fact, his company Tesla loses money last year without the government. If the government doesn't buy the vehicles, his vehicles, he loses money last year. So he needs the government. Okay, his tax breaks that he gets from states and from cities as well. Now who's Donald Trump? What do you lose? He can't afford to have a high profile person who can, we know who has manipulated the Twitter algorithm to turn that against him. And so he was greatly aided by that. And so when you have these two people clashing and then it's dominating the news cycle, all these things happen. So don't be shocked to see Republicans and other donors trying to broker a peace deal a day taunt, because you've got Speaker Mike Johnson trying to get this big beautiful bill, which one of my panelists call a bbl, a big beautiful lie going through the Senate and then back to the house. And so it's imperil. So that's what's happening right now. So this becomes the centerpiece. Oh, it's going to be great chaos. And I'm just going to sit here and enjoy my popcorn.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, listen, I think you're going to do more than that because you are a preeminent voice in America, not just black America as far as I'm concerned. I love talking to you and I, and I know that you ain't going to just sit back eating your popcorn, even though you clearly eat my brother. You do eat, man. You a big boy. But here's what my question to you. How do you feel we know how the right feels about this big beautiful deal. What's your issue with the big beautiful deal? Educate my audience to the specifics about why the deal may be, may not be big and beautiful at all in your mind and in the minds of liberals.

[Roland Martin]

First, first and foremost in the position that I take is I've never called myself a liberal or conservative. I call myself a voter. And I look at this purely through a, I look at this through a human lens. The people that will greatly benefit from this bill are the richest people in the country. The people that will be hurt are the poorest. When I listen to look I may, I am a Christian. The Catholic church that I grew up in was founded in my grandparents living room. My wife is an ordained minister. I'm a Christian book author. And when I look at evangelicals who are silent, who are saying nothing about the massive cuts and how it's going to impact the poor, that is greatly offensive to me. That's why I stay with Bishop William Barber and repairs of the breach and the poor People's campaign and their efforts against this. When you look at the cuts to SNAP benefits, when you look at the cuts to $880 billion to Medicaid, when you look at the impact when it comes to women having children, all of that is real. To what to be able to make permanent the Trump tax cuts in 2017 that benefited the richest in the country, please, is that actually what they need? When you look at this, that's what it speaks to. When you've got Republicans who are voting on a bill that prevents states from regulating AI for at least a decade. I'm sorry, how did that get in the bill? The other day I was reading that there's an insertion in the bill that will require banks to pay back crypto investors before they pay back depositors. If there's an issue with that bank. But when you start looking at this bill and looking at all of the perks in there for the rich and how it hurts the poor, it's a problem. If you cut 880 billion for Medicaid, you're going to be impacting rural hospitals. You know, that's gonna hurt a lot of the white folks who voted for Trump in rural America. Not just rural black folks in black was in rural America, but rural white folks. We saw what happened when this took place in North Carolina. I'd never forget Bishop William Barber was at a parade and his redneck with a Confederate flag draped over his shoulder walked up to Bishop Barber and he said with a tear in his eye, bishop, you know, I, I gotta be honest with you. I don't agree with a whole lot, but thank you for trying to save our hospitals. And so the problem we have is the brokers. Sickest places in America are the reddest. So people always talk about black folks, vote against their interest. How about all these white conservatives who are voting against their interests? They're cutting education, they're cutting health care, they're cutting government benefits. Who takes advantage of that more than anybody else broke white people in America? West Virginia, Mississippi, Arkansas, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Georgia. So those folks should be up in arms because, trust me, they are going to be severely hurt if this bill gets through Congress.

[Stephen A. Smith]

One could easily argue, based on everything you just broke down, that it should be easy for people in this day and age to, to see the light and to, you know, rally up against what we're seeing from this quote, unquote, big, beautiful bill and what we're seeing from the Trump administration thus far. Nevertheless, when you talk to the folks on the right, they seem to be not worried at all about folks on the left because they accused the votes on the left for not having any kind of vision for America whatsoever. Talking about the Democratic Party ain't talking about Roland Martin. They're talking about the Democratic Party. What do you say to that? Do you believe that this is an opportunity for the Democrats to pounce on, to capitalize off of, to regain some seats in the House and the Senate? Or is this one of those situations where you think that the Democrats will miss the boat and drop the ball and not take advantage of this particular moment where Trump and the GOP seem a bit more vulnerable?

[Roland Martin]

Well, here's what you're seeing right now. First and foremost, the 2026 election is a long way away. And so what you have to do is, and I've been Telling people, that's why I don't waste breath on 2028 or even right now, 2026. I focused in 2025. You've got state races happening. You've got gubernatorial races in Virginia, you've got MAGA Lieutenant Governor Winston Sears, a black woman running against former Congresswoman Spanberg. On the Democratic side, the Democrats right now control the House and the Senate. If they control, if they keep control of the House. Don Scott, my alpha brother, pledged to Texas A and M. Paul McCron remains Speaker of the House. Louise Lucas remains in control of the money in the Senate. If Democrats control the Governor's mansion, they now have the trifecta and now they can actually pass a deal that will then enshrine the return of voting rights for the formerly incarcerated. So that's a perfect example. Now New Jersey, their gubernatorial primaries on Tuesday, Newark Mayor Ras Baraka is running. Then you go, cause now look, it's a very blue state. But that's right now. Now what then happens after they got a mayoral election in New Orleans. We've seen mayoral elections in other places around the country. So look, you saw a black Democrat beat a white Republican in Omaha, Nebraska and that person was a two term incumbent. So you see where Republicans have actually lost some seats. Here's what Democrats have to do. You can't just say Trump is full of crap, which he is. You can't say the Republicans are all about the rich, which they are. I mean the facts are the facts. You also have to lay out what your agenda is. And if you look at polling data, polling data shows that a lot of people are not happy at all with national Democrats. But when you start going down ballot, that changes. So what has to happen right now is you're going to see for 26 where you're gonna have individual candidates. Do I believe Democrats are gonna take back the House? The answer is yes. Republicans only have a three or four seat majority. But so you're gonna have individual.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You think the Democrats gonna take back the House? You think the Democrats gonna take back the House?

[Roland Martin]

Yes. Okay, right now, go ahead. You have some, you have Republicans, you have Republicans who are in purple seats, districts that, that Biden won, that they are very concerned about losing what you have now. And Democrats are doing very smart by going to Republican congressional districts and holding town halls because the Republicans don't want to hold the town halls for fear of getting cussed out by their own voters. So they should be doing a lot more of that. But you also have to be articulating what Is your agenda. Frankly, Senator Chuck Schumer, the Senate Minority Leader has been very weak on this. I haven't heard a lot. You've seen a little bit more from a Democratic House leader, Hakeem Jeffries. His problem is he doesn't have, he, he can't do much. Schumer could literally stop appointments. They can stop, they can. You can do a lot more with the Senate rules. You can in the House. What the House has to do, what Jeffries has to do and get his caucus to be doing, they got to be far more vocal. And as Congresswoman Maxine Waters said on my show last night, she said we should be taken to the streets, leading protests, doing sit ins because you have to raise awareness of what is happening when you talk about the destruct, the destructive path that we're seeing. Do you know right now, STEPHEN A. They are threatening with the shutdown of Education Department that is going to impact a program I had them on last night where first generation students, mostly people of color, they will be losing those benefits. The program is $1.2 billion. It is going to impact more than a half a million first time college students. So don't you think we would want first generation folks being able to reach the American dream? They're going to cut that program out if they shut down the Department of Education. That's the brain dead stuff that happens. And the hard part is that when it's being talked about, that's why I can't watch these cable networks because they talk about process. Process. No, on my show I talk about real people, how a regular person is going to be impacted. Your students, student loans. We're talking about mothers, fathers, single dad, single moms. So we have to talk about policy that impacts the regular person. As my man, the late Joe Madison said, you got to put it where the goats can get. And Democrats.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You know how many times I use that? You know, have you had, if you've heard, if you've watched me on First Take. I've used that line several times. You know, crediting the great, the late, great Joe Master God restaurant. So give it to them where the goats can get it. No question about that. Real quick answer to this question. What should folks prefer? Like whether it's the Democrat or the Republican Party, what should the pro folks prefer? More seats in the House or more seats in the Senate? If you had to get one, particularly these midterms coming up over a year from now, which one would you prefer, Roland to have? The House or the Senate?

[Roland Martin]

No, Senate. The reason the Senate, because the Senate is the one that confirms federal judges. Those are lifetime appointments. So that always the Senate over the House. The problem is the map doesn't benefit Democrats, it benefits Republicans. When you look at the seats are going to be open now, Republicans are desperate to get a strong Republican to run against Senator John Osoff in Georgia. They want to take that seat. Governor Brian Kemp has already announced he's not running. They thought he was going to be the best choice. Democrats should really be focusing like a laser on Tom Tillis in North Carolina. And if they do that, they better take their asses to the black belt in North Carolina, which is east North Carolina. Vice President Kamala Harris made a huge mistake. So did President Joe Biden. Democrats keep doing this. They keep going to western North Carolina. You split the North Carolina map. They always go west. Starlet, Mecklenburg County, Raleigh, Durham. But guess what? The votes are in Black belt in east North Carolina. So you got that going on as well. You've got potentially Democrat could run against Susan Collins in New Hampshire, but the map favors Republicans for the likelihood. Democrats have a better shot at retaking the House than they do the Senate, but they could pick up some gains. And again, Republicans, they want to take Ossoff off out in Georgia. And so I can tell you right now, put a number on it. You're going to see minimum, minimum 150 million, 200 million spent in Georgia alone to take Senator Ossoff off. He knows that and he's preparing for it. And Democrats got a gird for that battle.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Let me get to a subject near and dear to me, because I only got you for a few more minutes and I wanted to get this out of the way. Back In January of 2024, I was one of the first to say on this very show that I thought Joe Biden was too old to serve a second term. It wasn't his age. It was what I was seeing. And of course, I got blasted. You were one of the people that blasted me. Yes. My man Roland Martin got on me, ladies and gentlemen. Now, Jake Tapper has the book out Original Sin with Alex Thompson. I'm sure you've read about that. Talking about the president's, the former president's decline per se. Anything you want to say about that, Roland? Ma. And the fact that, you know now people are looking at. You got Corrine Jean Pierre coming out with her book and she wants to lead the Democratic Party and now she's saying she's an independent and all we're going to hear about is some of the things that we thought we were seeing with the human eye from President Joe Biden. What do you want to say about any of that? Rola Mart, while I got you on this show? It is unfiltered here, too, by the way, so feel free.

[Roland Martin]

First thing, I don't give a damn about Jake Tapper, Al Thompson's book. I really don't. I don't really care. Here's the reality here that I would say, and this goes to any politician, and we've actually seen this. If you look at the last 10 politicians that have died in office, eight of them have been Republican. Excuse me, eight of them have been Democrat. We just saw Congressman Jerry Connally, who ran for reelection. His cancer came back. We saw my frat brother, loved him dearly. Houston, former Houston Mayor Sylvester Turner, who ran to replace to take the seat of Congresswoman Shima Jackson Lee, who ran herself and then later died of pancreatic cancer. And so politicians need to be honest and people around them need to be honest. Sometimes it's time to go. You can actually leave with dignity and grace. And my concern is that like the images of Robert Byrd and Strom Thurmond being wheeled around and held up, I mean, we know what those images look like. And so I hope politicians need to be honest to learn to let go power. People around them also have to have to actually be honest. Do I believe, do I believe that Joe Biden was an effective president? The answer is yes. But here's the issue which you're talking about. People are raised. The American presidency is not just about how you can make decisions in an office out of the way. It's also about the projection of power. It's also about how you.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I totally agree.

[Roland Martin]

It's also about, I mean, people, people don't understand how much the presidency, it's really about that what Americans want. And he was one of the biggest races of all time. But the reality is what Americans want. Americans want John Wayne in the Oval Office. They want, when the American president walks in, they want to see it. One of the reasons why we've always elected tall presidents, people don't understand how these things are impact. So part of the issue for President Joe Biden was the appearance of being feeble, taking his time, mumbling. We know he also was a stutterer. And the reality, that image doesn't fit the image of how Americans see a president. We know Trump is nuts and crazy. People like, oh, he's brash. He does this here. And even though he says crazy stuff, all the time and me doesn't focus on. He is all about the image of strong, tough vigor. And that's what we have to recognize. And that was a huge stumbling block for people around Biden and for him and Jill as well. And they didn't see it. And whether he likes it or not, they can get mad all they want to with being forced out. And it was an awful three weeks, but that debate was hugely problematic and folk lost confidence. And guess what? When people lose confidence, whether you are the American people or a husband and a wife, or whether you are player in your coach, Tom Thibodeau, guess what? When the people lose confidence in you leading, you can't. You can't.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Roland, I gotta tell you, this show, I gotta tell you this before I get on outta here. I gotta tell you this. My problem with the Democratic Party right now, what I'm seeing is I see. I like, I'm a fan of Westmore, Maryland. I think that Josh Shapiro should have been a VP selection instead of Tim Waltz. That's my personal. That's my personal opinion. And we know that we've got governors from the Democratic Party that can run for office that could possibly that likely do a hell of a job. I don't see anybody on the left having a national presence to win an election. I know you ain't thinking about 2028, but I'm bringing it up now because I'm thinking, I'm saying. I'm just. I was saying that. I know you didn't want to bring up 2028. You said you didn't want to talk about it.

[Roland Martin]

So let me unpack that. Let me unpack that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm just, I'm just, I'm just looking. You're going. Please go ahead.

[Roland Martin]

Right? Study the last 40 years. The last 40 years. Very few individuals who become president have a national presence. So again, let's take this thing back. Reagan runs for. Reagan becomes the governor of California. Okay? He runs for president. He runs for president and he loses. Okay? Carter was the governor of Georgia. He wins. Reagan wins in 80, after being the governor of California, ran for President, lost. George H.W. bush is the only one. Yet a long time ago, he was a member of Congress, he was vice president. You go to 90, then you go Bill Clinton, governor of Arkansas. He gave a speech at the Democratic national convention. In 88, people thought his career was dead. He wins the presidency in 92. What happens in 2000? Texas Governor George W. Bush. Obama was a state senator. And trust me, the only reason all those bills got passed. They credit him. That was because of Senate President Emil Jones. So he was a state senator who becomes a U.S. senator. So the reality is the people that become president, they never have a national presence two, three years out that actually builds when they announce and then you begin to run nationally. That's just.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But hasn't that changed? Hasn't that changed? But has it. I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm saying, hasn't that changed? People keep talking about the climate. We never thought, there's no way in hell with the years of Gary Hart and John Edwards and all this stuff, there's no way on earth that anybody ever thought that a guy like Donald Trump would be the President of the United States. But here he is, not just once, but twice. And so when you look at it from that standpoint and you see the maga, right, and the influence they appear to have, doesn't it need to be something a little bit different in order for the Democrats to reclaim their position?

[Roland Martin]

No. No. Because the reality is Trump is an aberration. One, he was, he was created by Jeff Zucker at NBC with the Apprentice, that false notion. He's also created by New York tabloids. Okay. Only reason we even knew about Donald Trump because they kept putting in the media, Stephen, I'll tell you point blank, Stephen, when I was at cnn, I'd never forget he, Wolf woods was interviewing him. And I went to the one of the bookers, Stephanie Katubi, I was like, why in the hell y' all got him on? And oh, whatever he's on, he does great rating. I said, but I said he's full of crap. And actually I was awful. You got to trip out with this. This is no lie. I was on with Heidi Phillips on cnn. We were talking about it and I survived. This is what I said. And I wish my folks at CNN will find a clip and send it to me. I said, anytime Donald Trump comes on cnn, we should run a crawl at the bottom that said for entertainment purposes only. The executive vice president of cnn, Ken Jout, sent me an email saying, don't be critical of Trump when he's coming on our air. Donald Trump was a media creation. You can't find any other person that the media, national media, newspapers, magazines would prop up. So the reason Trump is so different is he didn't have to go a normal route because national media created Donald Trump. And so if you look at from 2011 when he was flirting for running, he runs in 16, that was five years. He had already had this national Persona that was already created. So he is a media creation. There's nobody else the media has elevated in that way who I believe can do what he has done in running for the Oval Office.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Before I let you get on out of here, you heard Steve Bannon call for Elon Musk to be deported. How do you feel about that?

[Roland Martin]

South Africa don't want his ass. You know what? Here's the deal. Sure. Send him to El Salvador. Again, Steve Ban. Steve Bannon, also his credit. He called this and. And he saw what was going on there because Steve Bannon was. Eli was Elon Musk before Elon Musk. Trump ran him out as well because he was getting too much attention. And so again, it's hilarious to see what's going on. Bannon is an anti globalist. He thinks that that's what Musk is. I'm more concerned about. And I got this problem to stop. Now. ProPublica had an amazing article, Stephen Al, sending to you where the Trump administration was pressuring African nations to sign contracts with Elon Musk. Starlink Gambia was like, absolutely not. But they were pressuring that small nation. And that's what Trump did to the South African president when he was in an Oval Office. And so this administration was using the power of the United States Oval Office in order to drive business to Elon Musk. Hopefully all of that now stops since these two have fallen out. But that to me was a shameful thing that a lot of people didn't talk about. I had the Republican, the reporter for ProPublica on the show. And again, African nations were being pressured by Trump's team to give starlink contracts to Elon Musk. That was foul. So, hey, send the El Salvador. So send the Venezuela.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So. So my last question to you would be this stuff with Mushroom. I know I ain't that true. Because. Because I'm with you. Because I'm with you. Last question. I swear. Would. Would this stuff with Musk and Trump, is it going in the end, is it going to benefit the Democrats?

[Roland Martin]

It will. It will. It can't hold on. It can benefit Democrats if what it does is it. It would Musk's criticism and if he uses his voice in Twitter and platform to keep exposing the negative elements. There are a lot in this bill that's going to create pressure on Republicans to vote for it. You already got to remember they're trying to pass the reconciliation. They need a majority of the votes. You've got four or five Republicans who've already said, I'm not supporting this bill. Senator Ron Johnson, hardcore mag out of Wisconsin was trashing it. Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky, both states that voted for Trump. So if all of a sudden, if he starts saying, look at this crap, look at this crap, look at this crap. And if he keeps saying how this is going to increase the national debt, yeah, it can be problematic. So if I'm Democrat, every single I'm doing a David Letterman Top 10 list. If I'm, if I'm Speaker Jefferson, I'm Senator Schumer, I'm getting me a David Letterman Top 10 list. These are the worst things today in the big beautiful bill because you have to educate, enlighten and inform people. All we hear is big, beautiful bill, massive bill. The average person, Stephen, ain't sitting here breaking his bill apart and you're not getting that on cnn, MSNBC and Fox. So the Democrats should be doing that. And what that does is put pressure. Oh, did y' all know this was in it? And this and this. Now call your congressman, call your senator. That has to happen. And so Musk could actually do that. If he starts doing that with Twitter. Yeah, no, call it X. Then it could be a huge problem for Republicans to pass this bill. So, yeah, this bill could very well die.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Appreciate the education. Appreciate you always educating me. Appreciate you getting on me when you like that because I kind of love it. I kind of love it because it doesn't bother me. I, I know you got love for me even though you don't want to admit it half the time. I appreciate you, big boy. I appreciate it, man. Thanks a lot, man.

[Roland Martin]

That white suit you had on in.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Oklahoma City, it was pretty damn fly. Stop acting like it wasn't fly. Come on. Rolling. That was pretty damn fly like that. Come on.

[Roland Martin]

I was like, damn, I like Steve. They look like Benny Hin.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Man. Get out of here, man. I talk to you later. The one and only Roland Martin. Roland Martin, unfiltered on YouTube. Don't miss it. The voice of black America. Appreciate you, big bro. Love you, man. Thanks a lot. Coming up, the pace has shocked the world taking game one of the NBA finals against the Thunder. Can they win it all? We'll get into that before we close out the show. But first, one of Sean Diddy Combs accusers takes the stand and describes more drug fueled sexual parties they called hotel nights. We've got the latest from the Diddy trial right here next on the Stephen A. Smith show. Holla. Welcome back to Stephen A. Smith Show. Now let's get to the latest on the federal sex trafficking and racketeering trial of Sean Diddy Combs, a Diddy ex girlfriend. The latest using the pseudonym Jane, was back on the stand today. She described the drug fueled sexual parties called hotel nights she endured during her relationship with Sean Diddy Combs. Jane says she felt pressured to have sex with other men. She also broke down in sobs as she recalled getting to spend time alone with Combs afterwards. And just yesterday, the judge threatened to exclude Combs from court if he kept trying to interact with the jury. Combs was seen nodding in the jury's direction during the testimony of a woman who said Combs dangled her over a balcony railing in 2016. During that testimony, it was revealed that Combs was actually in New York during the Bad Boy reunion tour at the time she claimed the incident happened. Joining me to discuss the latest in the Diddy trials is one of the best legal minds in America as far as I'm concerned. Legal analyst extraordinaire for ABC News, obviously Host Sports center on ESPN as well. My buddy, the one and only Ryan Smith. What's up man? How are you?

[Ryan Smith]

Hey man, good to talk to you. How you doing?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Let's get right to it. I'm good man. It's just that. It's just crazy to me. All of this Diddy stuff. We just keep hearing more and more stuff. It's hard to listen to, to be honest with you. But what do you make of the testimony of the witness who says she was dangled over the balcony of her apartment? How incriminating is that against Diddy?

[Ryan Smith]

Yeah, Banna, that's really important for the prosecution's case. Why? Even though she wasn't somebody who said she was assaulted by him sexually. This shows the four, the, the violent tendencies that the prosecution is saying Diddy has. That this is what women were afraid of, that this is why people had, that he had this threat of violence held over people. Because when you look at it from the prosecution's eyes, if he could dangle somebody off a balcony, imagine what he might have threatened to do to Cassie if she didn't engage in the freak offs or to Jane with what she's talking about with the hotel nights. Showing that and showing what happened for the prosecution is like saying this is how dangerous this man is.

[Stephen A. Smith]

When the judge threatened to remove him and exclude him from, from from trial because he thought his facial expressions and what have you, you were influencing the jury. How big of a deal is that? If it is a big deal at all?

[Ryan Smith]

Yeah, I think that's huge because if the jury walks in one day and they don't see Diddy there, they wonder why, and they can't necessarily be told why, or the judge will give them an instruction, but won't maybe not tell them all the details.

[Will Kane]

But it goes to.

[Ryan Smith]

If you're on that jury, you're thinking, wait, why did. Why is there a change here? And any change, I think, in this case involving Diddy is bad for the defense. So with Diddy, the accusation is that he's nodding to the jury. And here's the thing. When you're a defendant, you cannot interact with the jury. Why? Because that makes it seem like you're trying to influence them in some way. Here's Diddy with this power. People know him. They know of him. And if he's looking straight at you, juror number 12, and he's nodding, don't believe that.

[Will Kane]

Don't.

[Ryan Smith]

I'm not saying I know that he did that per se, but when you talk about nodding for judges and for courtroom watchers, that's somebody trying to send an indication to somebody on the jury saying, believe this or don't believe this, which could influence their decision. So in a way, the judge has to clamp down on that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But damn, Ryan, I mean, he got to sit there for weeks. He can't smile, he can't smirk, he can't nod his head. I mean, for weeks at a time. Isn't that an impossible task to expect from a defendant where you can't have any kind of bodily communication whatsoever, affirming or denying anything? Is that not a bit unreasonable?

[Ryan Smith]

Well, it's reasonable to be able to have a reaction to things, but to be turning to the jury and reacting to them is borderline influencing them. And that's the last thing you want. You want these juries, jurors to be able to make any decision they want to make based on the evidence they're hearing, not based on the defendant looking at them, telling them, believe that. Don't believe that. The thing here is, Stephen A. We don't know exactly what he was doing in that courtroom. If he's turning and nodding and making indications to them, that's off limits. You can't do that. And before trial, his defense team would have told him, hey, you can't make statements or do things to the jury or have loud outbursts because they know that the judge will clamp down because the judge doesn't want the jury being influenced. But having reactions, being upset or being mad or crying or scribbling a note to your lawyer that kind of stuff is affected. Keep that, though, away from turning to the jury and trying to send an indication to them. And again, we don't know what Diddy was actually doing in that courtroom or what he might have been trying to do. But the judge has to look at that and say any way in which you are reacting, turning to them and making a motion, is potentially trying to say to them, don't believe this, believe that, and possibly influencing their decision. He can't have that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

My next question is going to be just as a treat to throw out to Diddy supporters out there, because just like R. Kelly had his supporters and Diddy's got his, and you have a lot of people that have been listening to you and others talk about what's going on during this trial, reporting accurately on what's actually transpiring in the courtroom. And in the case itself, it says everybody's pointing the finger at Diddy. I mean, what about these other witnesses? What are they saying? How did we know they're telling the truth? Et cetera, et cetera. I'll give you the latest example. Diddy's defense team said, proved that Diddy wasn't there. The defense actually provided receipts and asked a woman if he could be in two places at once. Once they proved that he wasn't even in attendance at the time that she said this ordeal happened with them. And when they asked her that question, she said, theoretically. I mean, what does that mean? How incriminating is that against her?

[Ryan Smith]

Yeah, that damages her testimony completely. He can't be in two places at once. And the defense even said that can he be in LA and be in New York at the same time? No. And that kind of opens and shuts the door on her. So that is huge for the defense. That's a big thing for the defense. And you have to believe the jurors, whether they think she outright made that up or they think, hey, your story's got to be dubious. Maybe you had your dates different. Something doesn't add up here. You never want a witness on the stand saying one thing happened, and then the other team getting up and saying, well, I can prove he was somewhere else. So, yes, it's damaging for prosecutors. But here's the thing. She was there to offer testimony about how he uses violence to intimidate people. Other people have offered that evidence. So for Diddy supporters out there who might say, hey, well, this is proof that he was never violent, I don't know if it's proof that he was never violent. I think maybe it's proof that he wasn't violent in the way this person described on that date. But Diddy still has a whole lot of things to push back on. To say that he didn't use threats and coercion to get people to do the things he wanted them to do.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Today the jury heard from Jane. Jane is her name, who testified that Combs threatened to stop paying for her apartment if she didn't continue the hotel nights sleeping with other men for his pleasure. However, it was revealed, like you said, that Combs was going to, was going to break up with her and she continued with the hotel nights. What do you make of that? She's going to break up with her, but she continued with the hotel nights anyway. Does that help his case at all?

[Ryan Smith]

It does in some ways, but it also helps the prosecution. Let me back up for everybody who hears Jane's testimony and starts reading it. What is important for prosecutors to prove here is a RICO conspiracy. That's a pattern. That's that basically saying in a nutshell that Diddy is either assisting in or operating this sort of criminal enterprise, that other people are involved and it's this pattern of criminal activity. Now, I want people to hang on to the word pattern. We saw Cassie up there for days talking about these tenant, what he did with her. He started dating her, they start going out, he offers her the recording contract, they start working together. And then he starts engaging her in these freak offs according to her, and starts using these threats and coercion according to her, in terms of, hey, you got to keep doing this or I'm going to take things away. Now we see Jane talking about the same thing. STEPHEN A. This is why I believe Jane's testimony is some of the most impactful testimony we're going to see in this trial. Because she now is talking about exactly what Cassie was talking about, which makes it a pattern. So I know that people are going to say, well, look, she could have withdrawn herself from the free cost, but look at what she's saying as to why. She's saying, well, he started dating me and then we had this relationship. Then part of the relationship became these other things that I had to do these hotel nights. And then he would say, well, I'm going to take, according to her, I'm gonna take this housing away. I'm gonna take these things away. It's the same kind of thing. It's a pattern. And in a way it requires jurors to look at this and say these women were in a position where they didn't feel like they had a way out. And Stephen, let me touch on one other thing related to this. I think 20, 30 years ago, we might look at this case and say, well, why didn't someone just leave? Now, we tend to look at these cases differently. We look at cases like R. Kelly, and we see grooming. We see how people are conditioned into certain behavior, and then they start feeling like they can't leave situations. That's the case the prosecution is trying to build here. They're trying to show that Diddy is a person who strings people along, gets them in these relationships, gives them things, and then gets them in a situation that they feel they can't get out of, either by violence or coercion, financially or otherwise, and puts them in this untenable situation.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So is it possible, before I let you get on out of here, that the real thing that's incriminating with him is the age of these ladies at the time he started their relationships with them. I'm guessing that based on what you alluded to in terms of how society was in the past, they would say it was consensual. Why couldn't you just walk away from the situation and then you bring in the grooming element? Well, if you're somebody in your 30s or your 40s, somebody might not want to hear that. But if you're somebody in your teens and you started dating this gentleman, then obviously you're going to be perceived as being a bit more vulnerable. And as a result, he's going to be the person in a position of power who manipulated that power to take advantage of you. Is that a good way of, you know, basically drawing a synopsis of all of this and really crystallizing this for the viewers out there?

[Ryan Smith]

I think it's part of it, but I don't think it's all of it. I think the fact that they were younger woman women may have made them a little bit more susceptible to his influence. I think his power dynamic plays into part of this, that a woman who's older could have also been swept into this power dynamic. And I think the way he conducted himself, at least according to the prosecution. But make no mistake, Stephen A, as you watch these people testify, like Jane when she's talking about, he had me take drugs across from LA to Miami. Now they're building the case of drug trafficking when he talks about having her and then her later calling people escorts to come in from different places to do these hotel nights. Now we're talking about the sex trafficking element. What you're Seeing here, when I talk about grooming, I'm talking about his M.O. and they're trying to describe how he did this. But I think age, while being a part of it, is not all of it. I think what it is is they're trying to describe how he got his hands into them and then in their mind put them in a position where they couldn't get out. And that's how they're trying to build the RICO case, the sex trafficking case, the drug trafficking case, all of it is all based on him and his associates and getting these people in a world that they couldn't get out of. And age is a part of that, but I don't think it's all of it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Last question. We've seen so much and we hear so much and it just appears to be getting more and more incriminating for Sean Diddy Combs by the day. But that's through the lens of the prosecution. When are we going to start seeing things through the lens of the defense team?

[Ryan Smith]

I think it's going to be at least a week. I think you can expect Jane to be on the stand for another couple of days. And when you talk about the lens of the defense team, just like we saw with Cassie, we saw Cassie getting grilled on the stand by the defense. We heard me, we heard about Mia getting grilled on the standby. The defense, it's going to be the same with Jane because Jane has a lot of text messages going back and forth talking about their relationship. Jane talks about how she over time started booking the escort herself. According to her, that was so she could control at least know the men, that she would be kind of coerced into engaging in these hotel nights with. The defense is going to turn that and they're going to say, look, but you're calling these experts, you're saying, are we doing this? And you can't later come back and say it was non consensual because you were in this relationship with him for three years. As you said, Stephen, why didn't she get out? There are going to be questions like that. The defense is going to press on and they're going to press hard because the defense knows what's getting out there. The impression that Sean Diddy Combs controls these people, that he has a whole pattern of doing these things, that he uses all these associates to do these things, and that's the RICO conspiracy. They have to knock that down by essentially hitting on one key point. All of this was consensual, that he strongly denies all of this and that all of this was what the women wanted to do and wanted to do with him. So the defense is going to get that chance when they cross examine her. And I would say if that doesn't happen today, it's going to happen early next week. But it's going to be aggressive, it's going to be strong because that's exactly what they did with Cassie.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Ryan Smith, legal analyst extraordinaire for ABC News and of course, sports center anchor for espn. Appreciate you as always. Have a wonderful weekend, man. Look forward to talking to you next week. You take care of yourself.

[Ryan Smith]

You too, man. Take care.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Coming up, Aaron Rodgers is finally heading to the Pittsburgh Steelers and the pace is still Game 1 of the NBA Finals. I'll get into that to close out the show in a minute. It's Stephen A. Back with your boy to the minute. Welcome back to Stephen A. Smith show. Now let's get to the NBA Finals where the Pacers stole Game 1 against the Oklahoma City Thunder. The Pacers were down by 15 with a little over nine minutes in the fourth quarter. Nine minutes left in the fourth quarter and managed to take a one point lead courtesy of this late bucket from tyrese Halliburton with 0.3 seconds left. And talk about an improbable victory. The Paces became the first team to win an NBA Finals game when trailing by at least nine points in the final three minutes of the game. All other teams with 0 and 182. In addition to that, the Pacers have a 5 and 3 record this postseason when trailing by 15 or more points, ladies and gentlemen, I was surprised by the comeback, I'll tell you that. Tyrese Halliburton, he's a young rising star in this league. I don't label him a superstar because for me, a superstar somebody. That's the number one option that carries the load that is the face of a franchise from start to finish. And you know, they have that level of responsibility on their shoulders. The Indiana Pacers are a collection of really, really good parts that could end up winning an NBA championship. Shay Gilgeous Alexander was sensational last night with 38 points, but not when it counted. That was Tyrese Halliburton who was not good. He was jittery and shaky. Looked like a deer in the headlights in the first half. Through the third quarter, he wasn't much better. But then as the game waned, he came on and let you know that his presence needed to be felt. Nem Hard really showed up and showed out and Created shots for himself and did some things. Niece Smith made sure he was formidable as well. Even Miles Turner hit a bank shot three. Pascal Siakam hit a corner three from the right. You know, the Pacers were 10 of 16 from on corner threes last night in game one. Give credit where credit is due. They came back. They scored 66 points in the second half on better than 50% shooting against the number one defense in the NBA. That's saying something. So Oklahoma City, who has a problem closing out close games, their record is under.500. Like three and six when you know within three point games, you know, during the regular season and one and four in the playoffs. This is who they are, this is who Oklahoma City has been. And so Shay Gildrich Alexander is going to have to be that superstar, that league MVP Jalen Williams gonna have to show up and help him. If you can average 22 points a game on 49% shooter from the field, 46% shooter from three point range in a conference finals, you can damn sure do it in the NBA finals against Indiana. Oklahoma City is, is, is, is in a tough matchup now. And I couldn't be happier because walking into the finals, I had Oklahoma City in six. I still have Oklahoma and City in six. But a lot of people believed that the Pacers could get swept. I never believed that. I believe the Pacers were good to win two games, possibly even force a game seven. But I knew they would have to win game one to have a chance to do that. Because I don't see OKC losing game two. And I think that if they had gone back to Indiana or going to Indiana, the Games 3 and 4 up 20 in the series of this NBA Finals, I think that Indiana would have been in trouble. But now that Indiana has won, Oklahoma City's got to get its stuff right. And I think that's going to make things very interesting. So I'm happy I got a good finals. That's what I'm happy about. I'm happy that the Indiana paces are showing the basketball world. This is a series to pay attention to because don't think for one second that they can't beat okc. I like this. I like this. Finally, before I get on out of here, the Pittsburgh Steelers switch it to the National Football League announced that Aaron Rodgers will be under center for the team this season. The news comes more than 80 days since the start of free agency and 70 days after Rogers visited the team. According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, Rogers plans to fly to Pittsburgh on Friday and join the Steelers ahead of next week's mandatory minicamp. Okay, I'm ecstatic because I'm a lifelong Steelers fan. Let me be very, very clear. I'm ecstatic because you have no damn quarterback. I know Aaron Rodgers wasn't great last year. I know he hasn't been great over the last several years, okay? But the bottom line is this is one of the greatest quarterbacks who have ever played the game. On his worst day, he's better than an average quarterback. And when you look at the Steelers quarterback room of Mason Rudolph, Skylar Thompson and Will Howard, who you just drafted out of Ohio State, you. You damn right they desperately needed Aaron Rodgers. So guess what? Even with what they had in the locker room, you still have Russell Wilson and Justin Fields last year. He could be an upgrade from both of those dudes. Which means that Aaron Rodgers would be the best quarterback that the Pittsburgh Steelers had in their stable over the last several years and in the same division as Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson. I'll be damned. I'll be damned if I'm going to be mad about that. Now, let me tell you for the record, what is going to piss me off if this is true. If that damn Shadow Sanders, who dropped to the fifth round in the 144th overall pick, ends up being better this season, assuming he's going to get the QB1 spot. And I don't know that's going to happen, okay? Because you got a quarterback that they drafted a couple of quarterbacks, okay? And they already had quarterbacks in their stable in Cleveland. I'm telling you right now, if Shador Sanders wins this job and he's the start quarterback for the Cleveland Browns and he goes out there and balls, I am going to be pissed because the Steelers could have drafted him. And I believe that Oman Khan and Mike Tomlin would have drafted him if ownership didn't influence their decision. Now, I don't have any proof of this, but I'm telling you everything that I was hearing about the draft and what happened to Shador Sanders, the willingness to let him slide all the way to the fifth round of the 144th overall pick, where about six different quarterbacks were selected before him that came from the top of several franchises. I don't know why. I'm wondering why. One day I'm gonna find out why sooner than later. But for this moment, all I'm gonna say is I'm happy with Aaron Rodgers being a stealer. I accept the fact that Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson is going to be better than him because they're better than almost everybody outside of Patrick Mahomes and obviously Josh Allen. But I'm telling you right now, Shador Sanders better not end up being a better quarterback this season than anybody the Steelers have, including Aaron Rodgers. I'm going to be apoplectic if that happens, and I'll leave y' all on that note. That's it for this edition of the Stephen A. Smith Show. I hope y' all enjoyed it. Thanks again to Will Kane for coming on the show, for Roland Martin for coming on the show discussing the whole Trump Musk fiasco from my man Ryan Smith coming on the show to break down what's happening in the Diddy trial. I appreciate all of their contributions to the show very much today, and I thank them. Hope everybody has a wonderful weekend. Hope you all have a wonderful weekend. God bless, be safe and I'll holla at you on Monday right after Game 2 of the NBA Finals here in Oklahoma City. See you then.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Stephen A. Smith]

This is an iHeart podcast.